The Post Discard Battle – Part Two



The first battle that takes places post discard is the Emotional Battle. That is a battle that you are always destined to lose. You will always fight at least one Emotional Battle because you do not know any other way. In all likelihood, you will face several of these post discard battles because you will keep being hoovered back into our grasp until such time as you learn to recognise what you are dealing with and understand what you must do. Eventually and this may take several Emotional Battles before you realise this and are capable of achieving the appropriate response, you either evade the Emotional Battle by escaping as opposed to being discarded, or you prepare yourself for the eventual discard in a manner which means you no longer have to ensure the Emotional Battle. Instead, you move on to the next post discard battle, that of Head versus Heart (“the HvH Battle”).

The HvH Battle (also known as the Logic v Emotion Battle) is a battleground where you stand some chance of victory. This battleground is one where you have gained understanding. It might be through your repeated exposure to our kind so that eventually something has “clicked” into place or more often than not it is as a consequence of an external agent who has explained matters to you. It might by a therapist, a friend, the content of a book, something you saw on YouTube or even something that I have written. Whatever has caused this understanding to increase, it is this which provides you with the fighting chance to win this HvH Battle.

You have been discarded and run the gamut of emotional fall-out thereafter. You may understand what we are. You may understand some of the things that we have done. You may be familiar with the fact that we will try to hoover you back into our grip. You may even be starting to comprehend that what has happened was all predicated on an illusion. The degree of understanding will vary but what is important for you is that you are allowing logical thought to be heard above the raw heat of your emotions. You once again will not just be battling against us but also yourself. We will be looking to hoover you in order to draw you back into our grip or perhaps we will be unleashing a malign hoover since we are unable to draw you back into our false reality and therefore we opt to keep extracting negative fuel by way of punishment for your treachery. You have us as an opponent, but you will also be fighting yourself as your emerging logic grapples with the still churning emotion. You have learned many things and you know you should apply what you have learned but still there is the emotional pull that you experience. You are not removed or detached from your emotions, they have not dimmed either, they are still there, raging away. The hurt, the love, the longing, the passion, the fear and the upset. An ocean of emotion which you once tried to cross but that was the Emotional Battle and you had barely taken four strokes as you began to swim before you were engulfed by the emotion and sank to the bottom of this sea, drowned by your own emotion. Now you have built a vessel. It is made from cool, hard logic. Critical thinking, once a stranger to you during your savage devaluation, has re-appeared. You can analyse and assess. It is unlikely you are able to do so at the level you once enjoyed before we came along but it is there. Whether this vessel is a tiny raft, a dinghy, a boat or a hulking great liner depends very much on the extent of your understanding. The choppy emotional seas will smash against your vessel of logic. A wave of sorrow will buffet you, a tsunami of longing will threaten to swamp you once again. Wave after wave of emotion will try and capsize your vessel as you try to navigate this emotional ocean. Chances are your life raft will be smashed to match wood and you will be tipped into the sea to drown once again as emotion subsumes you and you find yourself back in our hold. Your clipper may be holed beneath the waterline and you start to take on board more and more emotion as steadily you sink beneath the emotional waves once again. It is during this HvH Battle as you try to cross the emotional ocean, because what you must do is reach the dry land beyond and in effect put an ocean but you and us, you will be subjected to the push and pull of your emotions trying to guide you, to control your decision-making, your head will tell you one thing as your heart screams something else at you. This is probably the harder battle for you to fight. In the Emotional Battle, you do not stand a chance and your defeat is swift and total. During the HvH Battle you will make gains, suffer losses, seem to making a breakthrough and then out of nowhere a tidal wave will flip you from your boat and into the churning ocean and you drown once again. All the while we will be whipping up the waves, firing our torpedoes at you as we endeavour to cause you to sink into this emotional ocean yet again and you fail to cross it and win this battle. How might this HvH Battle manifest in the real world?

  1. You will know you ought not to contact us but you need to send a message to see if we respond.
  2. You will keep checking our social media profiles to ascertain if you are mentioned, if we are with somebody else and/or to find out what we are doing.
  3. You will ask about us to our coterie and lieutenants, often unwittingly doing so, so this is fed back to us.
  4. You will go on dates but find you are always comparing this new person to us and they are always found to be wanting.
  5. You know what the outcome will be but you just want one more night with us.
  6. You realise that we are unlikely to change but if you do not try you will never know, so it is worth one more attempt to talk isn’t it?
  7. You understand much of what we did and said was a lie, but surely it could not all have been an illusion? There must have been times where we really did love you and you need to ask us about this.
  8. You know we are bad for you, but you cannot help what you feel. Surely it would be better to stop this pain from being there all the time and just have it occasionally?
  9. You know you should not reply to our messages but it feels so good to have a conversation with us again. It has been too long.
  10. You know we are using you, but it feels so damn good.
  11. One kiss cannot hurt can it?
  12. You know better now, so going back will be different because you know what to expect. Armed with this new knowledge you can enter the lion’s den again but be better prepared.
  13. You know we are bad for you but you cannot bear the thought of someone else being with us and perhaps being the one to work.
  14. What if this time the apology is sincere and the desire to change is real? If you walked away from that, you would only be denying yourself happiness wouldn’t you?
  15. You understand engaging with us is dangerous but there are things you really need to tell us.

These and others besides are all examples of the inherent tension that arises in this tug-of-war between your cool intellect and your burning emotions.

Can you win this battle that rages post discard? Unlike the first battle, the Emotional Battle which you can never win, you can be victorious. You may have to fight this HvH Battle many times before securing the win. In the beginning you may be clinging to little more than a log as you desperately try to sail the emotional ocean and you are swept from it. However, by reading and understanding, by disciplining yourself to apply logic, to prevent your emotions from engulfing you, by reading more and increasing your knowledge you will begin to increase your logic vessel. From log to raft to dinghy. Still you may be swamped and drowned again. But then it becomes a small boat, a yacht, a clipper, a steamer, a passenger liner, a frigate, a destroyer and a super tanker. Each time you rebuild, better, bigger and stronger as you learn more, making the vessel more seaworthy. You begin to chart routes so you avoid the most tumultuous emotional areas, finally beginning to steer through calmer waters until there it is, on the horizon, the sight of land and the final battle that occurs with our kind post discard.

The HvH Battle is not an easy battle. You will fight it several times, but each time you should be better prepared to cross the emotional ocean and improve your prospects of success. Sometimes you are taken unawares by some of our provocative tactics and dumped unceremoniously into the water once again, but it is a battle you can win through the dedicated application of knowledge and understanding.

29 thoughts on “The Post Discard Battle – Part Two

  1. Serena says:

    I feel better after reading this. I was feeling down on myself for failing the emotional battle and failing the HvH battle, but now I see where I am at in my recovery. I am aware of my weaknesses and what I need to continue to work on. I feel better knowing that I am making progress. I am just not where I want to be. Thank you!

  2. Ian says:

    DBT not don’t

  3. Ian says:

    Look at don’t emotional v logic. Wise mind model

  4. Tsholo Matlou says:

    You guys are monsters

    On 04 Feb 2017 10:17 PM, “Knowing the Narcissist” wrote:

    > HG Tudor posted: ” The first battle that takes places post discard is > the Emotional Battle. That is a battle that you are always destined to > lose. You will always fight at least one Emotional Battle because you do > not know any other way. In all likelihood, you will face” >

    1. Amber says:

      Who is?

  5. Ciara says:

    H.G. Thank you 🌹

  6. Amber says:

    It’s true. It’s not about the narc versus empath. It’s just a microcosm of the spiritual battle within us all. It’s about mastering that within ourselves… i daresay for those with npd as well as the empath. The externalized battle, power play, or emotional catharsis is just a way of bringing into the third dimension that which is already raging in our heads before we even really engage in it in the real world. Thank you for your guidance. And warning. Lol 🙂

  7. What are some of the items that would upset Narcs the most during the post-breakup (discard)? Other than not responding to their hoovering attempts?

    I’d go back to her because I’d have so many unanswered questions about the relationship – and I had this delusion about seeing if her feelings were even real. I’d go back, she would see how happy I am without her, then she’d apply every manipulation possible to drag me down into hopelessness again… getting me to stay for a period of time until I woke up and realized what had happened. Then she’d discard me once I began calling her out on her B.S. As they say, ‘misery loves company’… She’d of course try to turn it all around on me. Wouldn’t even take in anything I was saying to her. An instant rejection. I am now working on building myself back up from the basics yet again….

  8. Overthinker says:

    I have learnt so much from you in the month since I found your site … I have been hoovered again .. However with the knowledge and this article backing up everything I am thinking … I am going to step away before the devaluation starts and I end up questioning everything about me, him, us, life and I end up very down … Thank you x x

    1. Entertainment says:


  9. Janice says:

    You are a true hero. How about that?

  10. Marusca Maria says:

    I was certainly taken unaware today. You came looking for me and found me. The timing was so right. Almost like the very first time I met you. We really are ‘two in one’ .. and yet so unreachable to one another.

  11. heathertx70 says:

    Please explain to me what narcissist fuel is.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Fuel is the emotional response of a person to us. The potency of fuel varies according to the Proximity of Supply and the Method of Delivery. The book Fuel sets it all out for you.

      1. heathertx70 says:

        I am so glad i found your website on fb! The more i read the more i am beginning to understand. Its not me! Im not crazy! Im crying. Thank you!

      2. Tappan Zee says:

        HG—i felt and said that a lot. “i am not the competition” ugh. is it only in devalue tho? adding to the confusion then was: completion (we complete you, are the one, ick, during GPs) only in conflict are we the enemy or competition (any given time no reason — to us no to you, yes we failed you) we walked two tight ropes of illusion. completion (perfection) and competition (enemy.) a very clear cut black and white dynamic. yes. i am paying attention. learning all this is mind blowing.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          See the article ‘You are the Competition’.

  12. ithinkamasubcarrier says:

    Woe. Wisdom… I do appreciate your sharing and thank you Mr Tudor for education – this time re: think critically and not emotionally. Look at the facts – without em/pathetic (and rather pathetic) excusing unacceptable Narc behavior – and admittedly, contributing behavior.

    Had to laugh at #12. ” You know better now, so going back will be different because you know what to expect. Armed with this new knowledge you can enter the lion’s den again but be better prepare”.

    Like prey would know what to expect… hah, not bloody likely on both accounts.

    Q. Mr Tudor, do you ever feel like you are giving away secret information to the enemy when you share, essentially expose and illuminate the Narc world? Stuff is not learned from traditional methods such as textbooks or counsellors, even if clinical.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Not at all. I can do as I please Subcarrier.

      1. Tappan Zee says:

        HG—do you see us as the enemy? apart from the black and white construct when we are good or bad (fueling or not) i think we would be sort of pets or like you say appliances. either working or not. but enemies, no.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You are the competition.

      2. Tappan Zee says:

        PS: necessities or commodities. until full or fueled elsewhere. idk. enemy doesn’t fit. BUT engaged with the narc i said just that day and night “i am not the enemy blah blah” because i had no clue of narc. and thought we were “one” and like minded, you know a couple and what not.

  13. Snow White says:

    This is my absolute favorite and I believe your best HG.
    This was in one of the first books I read and continues to stay with me.
    To all your new readers it showcases how you understand where we are in the aftermath. This is also a great gauge to see where you start and how far you have come.
    The more you learn and understand the closer you get to land.

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