Icing On The Awake
The bedroom is one of my favourite rooms. One of my ex-girlfriends used to call it the torture chamber. Another called it the freezer. Their appellations amused me. I don’t like to be touched. Dr O has suggested this is because that touch reminds me too much of what I am missing. I laughed at her remark. I prefer not to be touched, so how on earth would I miss that? I soon learned in the bedroom however that there was an expectancy to touch and hold. At first I would go along with this ritual but I soon tired of it and the thought of ‘spooning’ made me gag. I then learned however that my dislike of being touched and touching was actual a very useful weapon. I initially refrained from touching purely because I did not like it. No more. No less. The person in bed with me however would make such a scene about it that I learned they had to be touched or held to affirm that I felt something for them. Accordingly, by withholding any form of contact this would really upset them. It was marvellous. I was able to turn an idiosyncrasy of mine into a tool to cause upset and distress. If I refused to cuddle up (I’m shuddering just typing that) then I would be met with loud sighs and pleading requests. This emboldened me to not even face their way. In fact, I would lie looking at them and then purposefully turn my back on them. Moments later the sobbing would start and I would feel the power flowing through me before I drifted off to sleep. From what they told me, they endured many a lonely night trying to sleep. If they tried to place an arm around me, I would shrug it off or if really irritated (and this was a body blow) I would get up and sleep in the spare room. I love doing this. Not only do I get to really isolate the other person but then I can criticise them in the morning for forcing me from my bed and into the spare room. That gives me a delightful boost as I butter my toast.
67 thoughts on “Icing On The Awake”
God. He did this all the time 😂Perspective is a wonderful thing!
So that would be the Cerebral coming out in you HG?? 🤔
In what circumstances Lisa?
Well HG, I was just comparing this blog to my ex’s actions. He was a non emotional, no touch person in bed. Being the Cerebral that he is/was, I figured it was his was of ‘punishing’ me by way of withholding (sex). Not that it mattered to me, I was VERY grateful he wasnt the other way round.
So my question to you was just an enquiry to see if you ‘use’ the ‘no touch’ thing as a manipulation. (win/win for you). Is not the Elite a mix of the two? Cerebral and Somatic? TY.
It is a wonder I am “normal!”. Growing up, there was no affection, except for my brother pinching me. My favorite aunt hugged me and I wanted to live with her. I envied my friends at school when I was allowed to spend a night at their house … Being kissed goodnight, etc. I love affection and always have but I had a traumatic childhood and did not feel wanted ever. I’m thankful I still have normal feelings and am empathic, empahetic .. whichever is correct. 😀
I dont like touching or close talkers in general but early in seduction I do enjoy whispers in my ear, and my neck is the most sensitive area, but as time goes on-less and less as it loses its effectiveness. I do however enjoy torturing them with closeness knowing they hate it (this is of course when things are on the way down/out). I guess thats why I prefer to be in charge. After sex? I just got as close as you can get, now move over and give me space.
How can anyone not like a hug from a loved one, NarcAngel? I cannot relate to that. I longed for more hugs than he gave, and it hurt… I never said a word, because it would have hurt so much more…
Affection was never shown or demonstrated growing up so it was foreign and then after I equated it with someone wanting something (usually sex). I can give a superficial hug in public to a friend if it is required or expected but I do not like it. Funerals are the worst. I dont care about the dead and I have to hug the living. Can you say nightmare? Haha. When my sister was being deployed to Cambodia yrs ago I knew it was dangerous and I had angst for her and yet the thought of having to hug her was overwhelming. I managed quick one but it was awkward and awful beyond belief. I cannot hug or kiss my Mother
I see, NarcAngel, it’s what we associate with a hug. I do not have much experience with it either (growing up loved no less), and have difficulty reciprocating a hug, but it feels absolutely amazing… invigorating yet calming. A hug often means the difference between life and death for premature babies, and I can see why.
Quick, superficial hugs with relatives or friends are not so much of a problem, but I can relate to the feeling of awkwardness you describe. I do not like the kissing rituals going on though: kiss on the left cheek, kiss on the right, on the left again, sometimes just air-kisses, often accompanied by very high-pitched voices blurting out niceties. Reminds me of hens in a chicken house 😀
So any flirtatious touch given is only for seduction purposes and he doesn’t even want to do it? Does it actually matter to a greater narcissist what a woman looks like or is it just her fuel potential? Thank you.
My N was just the opposite. He was upset if I wanted my space in bed. We had to be touching or full on spooning while we slept. (after I rubbed his ass for an hour). This is uncommon with you kind?
My narc X liked affection. Affection had it’s payoff.
Interesting. Was this during seduction or all through your engagement?
Was the payoff for you or he, and in what form was the payoff?
The entire marriage.
Affection led to sex. He resembles the somatic from HG’s “Sex and the Narcissist” but the sadism piece was very rare. He did not weaponize sex. It was the only part of the marriage that was “functional” and it kept me hooked.
Yes, I understand that the skills in that department can be most addicting and cause some to endure a lot that they would not otherwise. It has been discussed though (and I have experienced) that they do not generally like closeness save for purposes of seduction/golden period and that sex can be likened to masturbation but just with another body. That is why I asked if it was during the whole relationship or just in the beginning. Its nice that you at least had that to enjoy between the difficult periods.
He says he wanted me to give him as much loving as I could. To hold him. To rub him. Wake him in the middle of the night and pleasure him under the covers. To give him many kisses always.
Then when bedtime comes he feigns exhaustion from work or ate too much at dinner. Sex or me snuggling is out of the question as he rolls over with his back toward me. No kiss goodnight. I try to kiss him and he utters a sigh of a quit bothering me tune.
Then as I lay with tears in my eyes and can’t sleep feeling rejected, he drifts off into a deep sleep.
The next morning he bounds out of bed and rushes downstairs to set thing out for me to make his favorite pancakes. I can barely get up cause I’m so tired from restless sleep.
I just never understood.
addendum: I find touch to be irritating. After an intimate encounter, ideally, it would involve me sprawled out on my end of the bed, while he sleeps peacefully a safe distance away.
We have an accord Ms brown.
Its all part of the process…. something to be aware of before we knowingly engage
Perhaps you act this way because you resent that she turns to you, expecting you to give something you *cannot* give!
And your sense of superiority prevents you from admitting and communicating this to her, which keeps you locked in and at the mercy of your own rage. The only way to calm this fury is to punish her because, in your mind, she caused this issue.
But remember that both of you really are in the same boat in these moments… intimacy of any kind is scary… for us because we know what is at risk when we bare our hearts and souls, now more than ever… for you because you fear that she might see you, the real you behind the mirror… and in this shared anxiety lies the potential for healing.
HG What about a N that loves spooning, loves to touch and be touched and cuddled and LOVES sex and loves cuddling after sex? What’s happening there?
You are in the seduction period Kathy.
Curious difference… My N loved to be touched even when seriously devaluing. I could tell it usually wasn’t personal or caring. I could have been anyone. It was like I was his love teddy bear and he liked it to put him to sleep.
Indeed, you are correct about it not being caring but was part of the provision of fuel and exerting control over you.
You don’t like to be touched because you are terrified of wanting more touch and warmth, and you trusted no one when you needed to most. So you go into a sort of roligor mortise to prevent yourself from feeling thise killed off needs.
You should get short non-sexual massages. Make yourself lie there doing nothing and see what the experience of gentle, kind touch does to you. Make yourself endure it. I am assuming yiu don’t like massages?
I do not mind massages because that is being done for a professional reason rather than for intimate reasons.
He enjoyed those when I gave them, those moments I believe were win win,
He got something he wanted and so did I .
ah, so its not touch itself that you can’t tolerate.
I only provide professional hugs, and touches.
Have you elaborated in any of your writings, Mr. Tudor, as to what denotes the phrase “Torture Chamber”? Have you a description of this somewhere? A very detailed description, in fact?
Not so far.
A bit of a personal question HG so disregard if you so decide…how much of the aversion to touch is passive agressiveness versus the sexual abuse from your past? Or both? It seems almost a way to get back at the abuser thru your victims? Do you feel hatred towards women as a result of that abuse? I think i had read it was an aunt?
So sorry this happened to you. I too was sexually abused by a woman. Most steriotype this type of abuse perpertrated by men but not always is it the case. Thx
I do not know whether the aversion to touch, Curious, is necessarily borne out of the sexual abuse but rather the whole rejection of intimacy arising from the self-defence mechanisms that I deploy. I was repeatedly shown that intimacy was a sign of weakness and therefore to be avoided. I can understand that the sexual abuse will have had some impact also.
My hatred is a multi-threaded beast.
Victoria aut morte
What do you get from making someone feel isolated?
Control, their undivided fuel, power.
I can imagine it must be a great feeling of power to do that to someone.
Would you treat Amanda this way, too, HG?
I would have no reason to Matilda.
What if you found her, and she disappointed you in your eyes, like all the others before her? Would you devalue and humiliate her as well? Or would you try a new path?
She wouldn’t let me down.
Believing that of Amanda is beyond logical reasoning and atypical of someone priding themselves of machine-like behaviour and efficiency. It is akin to an Empath on here believing they could satisfy and change you if only you gave them a chance. Think how you scoff and are amused by such statements. It is our turn then to be amused, (although you know Empaths will be rooting for you). So either you experience hope, faith, and other positive traits you have not acknowledged, or that is a perfect example of the magical thinking. Unless of course you are admitting that there are Empaths out there that can change Narcs but pointing out that no one here reading could measure up to that. That would be undoing all of your work here would it not? That every Narc could have their Amanda and she (the commenter) might just be the one for her Narc? You instill in us that this is not possible and yet you hold this hope for yourself? It would certainly keep the good doctors on their quest also. Your intelligence allows for the scenarios above but not for the belief that one woman (a girl known briefly in youth no less) holds the key to your salvation. Come on HG-you have spun better tales than that. Im in yout corner but I have to challenge you to think hard on this one.
i understand your perspective but you do not have all the pieces yet. When you do you will see why I adopt the stance that I do.
True. I have commented on only snippets I have read here and there against my own advice to others. .Its just that youre so damned fascinating and provoke me with such statements! Lol. I look forward to being fully informed in future. Sigh.
I am sure your details are different from mine, for me it is hope
I hope you understand what I am saying HG
I hope your evening is well
But it would happen. You are in denial. Amanda serves one purpose only for you, gives you one thing: hope.
“She wouldn’t let me down.”
Hmm… you will cross that bridge when you come to it. But it is good to see that there is a flicker of hope in you. All is not lost.
Christian Grey. 😉 ( I’m not a fan )
My Mom hates being touched too. You said it’s an idiosyncrasy. I just wondered if you could please give your opinion on why. This would help to better understand this iciness.
On which? Why your mum hates being touched or why it is an idiosyncrasy?
I know it is a peculiar trait but, I wondered about using it as a devalue or don’t touch me because I am superior or something along that line.
Actually I hate being in bed with someone else. I like touching, hugging etc but my bed is my sacred, alone place. Just me and my cats 🐱 😄
HG you might like the ice hotel in Finland for your next holiday.
No I’m not coming. I already have a scar because of this behavior.
Can’t understand why somebody wouldn’t want to touch and be touched, if there is attraction.
But it’s true, with a narcissist you don’t get to make love a lot and this is one of the main reasons it could never work for me. First it’s the poor sex, then the lies, then the absence. There’s no point in doing anything.
A waste of time.
I am not cuddly either. It has nothing to do with being a narcissist. But I am just surprised those women were making such a big deal about it. I would just find somebody else and dump you HG, plenty of fish in the sea. I do not accept certain behaviors from men. I must always be treated as a princess. Always. My husband was up to the challenge 😛
They aren’t making a big deal of i. The way HG does it makes them feel dirty. Like a whore, trash. That is why they react with such pain. And the more it happens to them with him, the more the pain grows. Imagine a scene full of love and touch and then someone throws an bucket of ice on you? It would chill your soul. That is why they react that way.
“And the more it happens to them with him, the more the pain grows”
From the outside looking in it does seem like theyre making a big deal of it by remaining and accepting that behaviour then bemoaning it and expecting it to change. They are remaining and accepting of him treating them like a whore. It is their choice. Healthy people would not accept this and move on as B&B suggested. When you are able to look at it from outside with no emotional involvement, it appears the Empath is the selfish one by insisting on hanging on and getting their needs met despite evidence that this is not desired by the other party.
NarcAngel, that is only partly true. You are conveniently forgetting all the brainwashing, the powerful mental and psychological abuse that paralyzes someone. The complete LACK of context that some of us have for this shit. You lovebomb and act like we are god’s answer (like Amanda is to HG but he is deluding himself) and then pull the plug and turn us into junkies not even knowing what is being done to us. Oh yes, the Narc told me that he can’t stand my ego, my infatuation, nothing between us and more. Well, good for him. But I also can’t stand his manipulations, his pathological lies, his inability to WALK either. So its a friggin’ two way street. Just because narc are superior power control freaks doesn’t make your behavior more right. He didn’t want me? Why Hoover me through a third party? Why his endless stupid ass games. So Please…. the narc is equally selfish by being so damn greedy thinking that everyone and everything is their little sandbox to do as they please.
Not desired by the other party? Bull. He has desires, just they are not at ALL aligned with mine… love, communication, friendship. his desires are deceit, manipulation, game.
I did say from the outside and should also have said from the other (Narc) side. Im not forgetting the Narc tactics but I am also not forgetting about the many needs and wants of the Empath, among them the need for validation through touching and closeness which not all people enjoy (once you know they especially dont). It definitely is a two way street and both sides are addicts. The not desired I was referring to was the need you feel to be close to them after sex and in bed. Once you know they dont share that desire, continuing to try to force it only makes things worse. It appears to the other side as selfish to your needs and dismissive of theirs. I think you may be forgetting there is a mental health issue here-thus the games, lies, etc but yet people continue to think they should just snap out of it and they cant any more than you can stop trying to change it for YOUR needs. That is logic and in this type of relationship there is no logic on either side, but a shared responsibility. Theyre manipulative and the other side is susceptible. A perfect storm.
Ok, I appreciate the clarification NarcAngel.
But I still put more of the problem on the narc. Lets see if HG answers but I bet, he initially did all the physical contact, some affection afterwards and more. I would like to hear, but I am guessing that his cold should did not start from the beginning. But like all the mimicry, all the faking, it started well after he established a fake intimate bond? Maybe its not true, maybe it was like from the first time he has sex with someone. But I would be surprised if that were the case. If he did in fact do this from the beginning, then it changes the discussion. But if he faked intimacy, gritted through it, and then pulls his cold shoulder act, then I can understand the pain this causes and how it creates one more devastating trauma bond. Normally, couples are intimate, and then slowly pull away to their own space and develop a rhythm. It’s not a cold, harsh wall that is erected out of nowhere. Even in this part, I bet there is a devalue cycle.
But lets see if HG has time to answer… if this is the pattern from the very first day or if this is something he pulls out at some point as one of his tricks.
If it is from day one, this is why he is entirely delusional that he could be anything but cold with Amanda. But if he fakes intimacy after sex, then he could fake it with Amanda and hope he could sustain it. Or, it still would only last so long and then I don’t think he could overcome his impulses to reject and pull away. You know, old dogs new tricks kind of thing?
boost as you butter your toast, would you like a little grrr on the side and some nasty looks to wash it all down with. 😉
HG, do all your kind share your dislike of being touched? Is there any kind of touching you and your kind do enjoy? I recall reading in one of your articles that touching can provide you with positive fuel. What kind of touching does this? Thank you!
Yes but during seduction the inherent aversion is override by the needs of the seduction. Sex and the Narcissist addresses this further.
He curled up into a ball. And refused to kiss or touch me. It was almost autistic. It was chilling. He was full of so much self hatred and self loathing. I later tried to tell him something nice about parts of it, but I have never seen so much misery and pain. And then Poof! He switched in to someone else. Frightened me to no end.
Did you always know you enjoyed this? Or is it only now – with self-awareness – looking back you realise you were actually enjoying doing this to the other person?