Closer To Heaven

youtube closer to heaven

 

It is testament to the intensity of our love-bombing, our seductive charade and the illusion that we create that you feel that we are heaven sent. Nobody compares to us either before after. Our love is like the sun. Vast, burning and immense, so bright and you, like most things on this planet, come to depend on it. The brilliance with which we make you ours by the carefully constructed and elegantly orchestrated ensnaring means you do not notice what is happening to you. All you know that is your dreams have come true. You are whisked off your feet, made to feel special and lifted up on high. And why not? You are indeed special to us. We chose you. From all those appliances out there, from the thousands upon thousands we targeted you, we researched you and we dedicated ourselves to capturing you. That is how special you are. You are particularly special because you are elevated to the position of being our primary source of fuel. What greater honour could my kind ever bestow on someone? You are my life blood. Without the fuel that you provide to me each and every day, succulent, potent and plentiful, I would no longer exist. No wonder I worship you when I first find you. You are the answer to my fears. The destruction of the construct is a terrifying matter to contemplate and I will do anything to ensure that this does not happen. You are instrumental in achieving this and it is through your fuel that I am not only able to exist but function, conquer and attract. You are so important to me that you provide the fuel that allows me to draw in even more fuel. You are the catalyst for all my endeavours, my machinations and my schemes. You are the driving force behind everything that I do, my successes, my ambitions and my achievements. It is because of you I am able to illuminate the world with my brilliance. Now do you understand why my seduction of you must be so absolute and intense? You are my saviour, you are everything that I need and accordingly I must capture you with all due expedience so that you are not plucked from my grasp by some other pretender. It is through you that I am able to transcend the mediocre and mundane, how those words make me shudder. My seduction is borne out of a great ravenous hunger. I need you. To acquire you I must take you closer to the heaven than you have ever been. Does it matter that I do so through the construct of an illusion so long as it serves that purpose to ensnare you? You are worshipped, adored and idealised – who would not want to be revered in such a manner and by one so talented as I? It is a match that was forged in heaven – you give me what I need and I give you what you desire. It makes perfect sense and this ideal matching of you and I must always come to pass. It is written in the stars above.

I pin all my hopes on you. I put every ounce of effort into acquiring you. I strain my sinews, polish my charm and burn brightly in the hope and expectation that you will provide me with the outstanding fuel. You do not disappoint. At least not at first. Yet, the time comes when the fuel sours and becomes stale and that is why my treatment becomes so awful and horrendous. My malice is driven by your failure. Our immortal union was in touching distance. I had you at the gates of heaven and all you needed to do was to keep supplying me with that wonderful fuel. I know you tried. Goodness knows you have told me often enough about all the things you have done and how you tried over and over again to make things work. You were not the only one you know. That sense of having been so close burns through me and the fury that is unleashed is so virulent I am unable to control it and thus it must be spewed over you, drowning you in my hatred, my bilious venom oozing across you, trickling into your open orifices as I seek to smother you in my cloying evil. You promised so much. That is why I promised so much in return. We got so near but then you faltered, you floundered and you failed and it all came crashing down. If there was a different way, if there was some alternative which meant I did not have to unleash hell against you, then perhaps that would be chosen instead but there is not. I know no other way than that which is meted out to you when it all comes crashing down. I cannot control it because you threaten my existence by your failure and I must turn to other means to secure and preserve my existence. I obtain other sources of my precious fuel to avoid my extinction from your negligence.

I wanted to give you the world. I wanted to take you to heaven and because of your failings we had never been closer to heaven and then we had never been further away. Why did you do it to me?

57 thoughts on “Closer To Heaven

  1. Mona says:

    Hello Superxena, I am someone who is emphatic. I was too compassionate. No, I am compassionate and empathic enough, I made up my decision. I changed my mind completely. If people do not behave respectfully, I let them down very early. I do not think anymore : “Oh they have had a bad childhood, poor girl, poor boy.” Nowadays I think: “What do I have to do with your childhood? I am not your beast of burden.” That is quite normal. Therefore I think I am not an interesting target for a narcissist anymore. Maybe I fall in love with a narcissist again because of some kind of a bad habit. But we both will see very early, that that does not function. I know the red flags today ….
    I do not fight for love of people, who do not love me. Why should I?
    You asked me for objectivity for HG. You are right, I am still very emotional towards him. That is true. He did not hurt me personally. He only told his experiences and thoughts about live and emphatic people.
    Maybe I am so hard towards him, because I am angry about me. Why did I not see what my personal devil really was? I could run against a wall because of that failure. Therefore it is difficult for me to remain cool. On the other hand – many followers seem to forget that HG is diagnosed as a narcissistic sociopath. That is a very serious diagnosis. And I confess, I forget it very often also.
    HG has a total different view towards life. It is as if you put Bonobos (me and you) and chimpanzees (narcs) into one room. The last ones are aggressive, conquer their world, cheat on each other. Bonobos part food, help each other and make love not war. Both are apes, but live on different continents as far as I know. (I will google it) Both have a functioning strategy for live. Both survived in their environment successfully. But do not put them together. I do not know why, but HG always wants to make love to a “Bonobo”. Why does he not take a chimpanzee? That would fit better. ( This is no offend!!!!) I do not think we are apes.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      There is too much monkey business going on here.

      1. Mona says:

        Even you must accept, that our ancestors were monkeys. Maybe you took then another route.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I thought we were all descendants of Adam and Eve? Have I not been paying attention?

          1. Entertainment says:

            “Not my circus, not my monkeys.” onward entertainment, onward.

    2. superxena says:

      Excuse me? What do monkeys and apes have to do with this? How can you make statements with 100 % certainty based only on your own hypothesis and not facts? No offence ,but we are looking at this from two completely different levels..
      I might say that I found your examples with monkeys and apes quite …hilarious…. You really meant them as a joke..right??

  2. I’m days late on this conversation as I have been playing. Let me see….
    HG, prisons eh? Military job? Politics involving parliament? All will be revealed I hope.
    Criticism. You don’t like it when it is a challenge to your beliefs and ideas of the creation of narcissism? Do you give consideration to thoughts on how and why narcissism comes about or do you just believe you are the authority on it and empaths can’t understand you or your kind?
    Next…when are you writing seduction series book 3? I’d love to be able to recommend them for great summer beach reads. Fanks.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It is in hand ABB.
      No, I generally become irritated with comments concerning me which are based on inaccuracy (whether deliberate or pure mistake) as opposed necessarily to the ideas concerning the creation of narcissism. I recognise there are various theories in that regard as to how it is established. I have my own but my forte is on understanding the behaviour, actions, dynamics once the narcissist has been created and the interaction with the victims etc.

      1. Thanks HG. In your hot hand eh? Are you gonna release that bad dad anytime soon??? I’m dying to know what happened and if there is the twist.

  3. ava101 says:

    I assume I would if someone had to die. Wouldn’t make much of a difference though and one might also want to apply differentvcriteria, such as how valuable an individual is for the common good. Thanks for asking. It’s against my belief system though.

  4. Mona says:

    HG, I have no problem, when you correct me. Yes, it is labeled as a personal disorder nowadays. That is right. About 60 years ago it was labelled as a “moral insanity”. That`s history.
    Round about 4 % of all people are assumed to have your disorder. (I do not know, whether this percentage is right or wrong. I read it only) It is called a disorder, because it is not seen as normal by the average of people. Assumed that percentage is right, then 96 % of humans are different to you. If 96 % of people would be like you, I believe that it would be the doom of mankind. Maybe there were times in history, when there was a much higher percentage of people with a personal disorder like yours. And they seemed to be the normal ones. That must have been a cruel and hard time for many, many people,although it was not necessary to survive and thrive for all of us.
    I am led by emotion and you are too . You yourself said, that you rage and behave (sometimes) very bad. If there was only cold logic you would not rage at all.
    The word “toxic logic” is a new creation and a contradict in itself. Logic is logic and free of any assessment.
    I believe the world would be a better place without people with your disorder and that is no logic, but an assessment of me. I think your kind is counterproductive and useless for the survival of mankind. That is my conclusion of being entangled with someone of your kind. I do not want to live in a world with many of your kind. I do not want to be some kind of “mantis” to survive an encounter with your kind. I have a different approach and perspective. That is right.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It remains the fact that it is people like me who have achieved, discovered, created and entertained. I accept that it is not wholly the preserve of our kind, but we are very well represented as leaders in many fields. There are decisions which have to be made, they must be made with speed, without the hindrance of emotional thinking, without the baggage of feelings in order to achieve the right result. Yes I have some emotions but my operation is largely governed by cool, hard logic which is why I am a highly effective unit both in my capacity for the gathering of fuel and my professional life. Those emotions do not hinder me.
      There are certain roles I cannot do which your kind do. There are certain roles you cannot do which our kind do.
      When there is a catastrophe, when disaster strikes, when tough decisions have to be made, when force has to be utilised to achieve the result, when being driven and calculated is the only way to push forward and achieve the result, that is where our kind excel because we have singularity of purpose. I am hugely goal-driven and the lack of remorse, conscience etc enables me to achieve far, far more in my field. If I was like you, I could not have even entered my profession, less survived or thrived in it. Your everyday existence is preserved by people like me.
      You would be paralysed if you were placed in the situations I deal with. You would make wrong decisions, slow decisions and believe me the consequences would be far-reaching and disastrous.
      To describe us as counterproductive and useless is nonsense and such a dismissive approach demonstrates the superficiality of your position.
      I refer to our toxic logic to enable you to understand how we have a different perspective to yours. Our perspective means a different logic which works for us. It does not mean that it is invalid because it is different.
      I recognise you have a logic to your perspective, one that leads to your being victims as you strive for explanations in the wrong places. Whose logic is the most effective then?

      1. Entertainment says:

        I think the percentage of people that exhibit the traits are on the rise due to the disconnect from human interactions i.e. social media, online shopping, all we have to do is click, everything we need is a click away.

        A successful relationship last between 6 months to a year. Rebound with a new material in less than a week whilst all this seems socially acceptable.

        It is my assessment we will start witnessing more of this behavior as even normal people are becoming numb to the atrocities that occur daily.

        HG
        You can worked at McDonalds and you would still need the faculties to make decisions albeit prevent a fire or flip a burger. 😊

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Yes indeed the faculties are required for the purpose of making decisions to flip burgers etc but I am not referring to the decision making process of an epsilon semi-moron as anywhere applicable to the decisions I make.

          1. Entertainment says:

            And that would be everyone else.😊HG, are you one of the good doctor’s?

          2. HG Tudor says:

            No I am not, Entertainment, I have no medical background or training.

      2. Mona says:

        It is assumed that “only” max. fourteen percentage of the high leaders in industry, military, politics are of your kind. The other ones are quite normal. They all have to make cruel and emotionless decisions. And if I would be in a situation to decide whether I have to kill only a few people instead of killing many people, be sure, I have no regret or remorse to kill some “innocent” ones in order to rescue the majority. (There were some psychological experiments about this assumed situation) In those situations you are right, cold emotionless behaviour is needed. Or another example, which is not that far away from my own life environment. I do not stop my car when there is a cat on the street and other cars are behind me. I decide to kill the cat in order to avoid a greater accident, because I want no human to be injured. Instead of you I would be sad in both situations. I do not want to injure people or animals. When I am forced to do it, because there is no other way, I will do it. I have no problem with that. I do consider the risks and calculate the outcome like you. I had to kill a fox in the past (no long decision). I have no bad conscience about it. It had to be. I will rescue my life first. Each time. Do not underestimate my “coldness”.
        When you abuse the ones who love you it is a different situation, you cannot compare apples with pears. They do not fail you. You fail them. It has nothing to do with survival. The women who loved you did not threat your life or did they? Of course- they threat your construct. The construct- that only the fittest survive.

        And you just persuaded me once more to become a mantis to your kind.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Fair points Mona. I am pleased you put “only”. Based on my anecdotal (of course empirical evidence will not exist) evidence I regard the figure as considerably higher than 14%.
          I note your decision-making and I must accept that you are explaining the truth of your situation albeit whilst you may not think long you would think longer than I would about such decisions and indeed as you acknowledge you would be sad whereas I would not.
          Now watch out for Flickatina coming after you for being a cat killer!

      3. ava101 says:

        Wow. Very well described, HG.

        I also would never want to have to make decisions such as in regard to the over population of our planet.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Indeed. If we do not though the option for choice will be taken from us.

      4. ava101 says:

        That’s right. But I would volunteer to start solving the problem by starting with myself.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You’d kill yourself?

  5. Broken says:

    Referring to above posts. I am greatly thankful for HG to finally shed light to all the questions I have analysed to death for the passed two years. I wish I had found this blog before because the Post Traumaric Stress Syndrome could have been avoided as well as my crazy behavior. We are all here for different reasons and with different wounds. If I ever come across wanting to humiliate the one that is finally giving me answers I truly apologize. Saying that I do not defend such behavior, but that is between HG and his therapist. I am only very happy I found a place for closure. In order not to get caught up in useless discussions I simply ignore some posts but embrace those that help me in my healing. Tank you for you HG and for my fellow victims that are healing.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are welcome Broken.

    2. SVR says:

      Well said Broken but I hope you get rid of that name soon. Take care

      1. Karma says:

        Thanks SVR ☺️ The same thing was suggested to me by Entertainment so I have changed to Karma because that is what hit me for my part of the craziness but it’s more for him now. I’m far away while his tower is crumbling. Sad but also a bit content that he finally get what he deserves.

  6. SVR says:

    Entertainment I would add to your comment. Just like the Narc who does not truly know the Co-dependent may not also know. This entanglement (toxic engagement) may be your wake up call or it may not. Hence some people repeat again and again. Once the wake up occurs it is heartbreaking but with perseverance and belief in oneself you can recover to find a beautiful life. My personal view is that we also wear masks but don’t realise until we wake up and then we can be truly authentic.

    1. Entertainment says:

      SVR,
      I agree as a codependent, empath, supernova empath or any other label we attach to ourselves we carry around a lot of luggage and masked our past hurts and pain.

      If we don’t know who we are and what we are meant to be our purpose in life; self discovery has to be done by us and cannot be be dictated by others thoughts of us. We lose ourselves tending to the needs and demands of narcs, children, coworkers / employees and every one we allowed in our lives.

      Life is fleeting at neither of us is getting any younger (except me) according to my grandson😊 How we live moving forward is a choice we choose to be happy, we choose our attitudes, we can choose to take our power back or choose to remain a victim.
      If we don’t ascertain our purpose or who we are,,,we are destined to a life of misery. Which makes me sad, all the energy and love we invested in someone that’s incapable of feeling could be used on the millions of people that yearns for love, hug, a smile. We rob ourselves of joy when we allow the narc to keep us in suspense mode.
      I wish everyone the very best on this blog and of HG.

  7. Entertainment says:

    The freedom to choose the way we live our lives is a gift. When we become entangled with a person with npd they take that away.
    We must muster up the courage to start making choices that helps us to rebuild our lives.

    Everyday we wake up we are given a chance to make a choice even choosing not to choose is a choice. I choose to label them as the losers they are and to do things for self to ensure that I don’t subject myself to being entangled with them.

  8. Star says:

    I am curious HG, is it difficult to expose your true self to all of us through your written words?Do you ever feel shame or sometimes wish to present yourself only in a positive light, fearing judgement from us?Or is it somewhat therapeutic for you to be able to be honest about how you really feel, or things you do or have done? Is there relief just being able to be your true self? No manipulations, no mind games, just being taken for who you are 100 percent?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hello Star,
      1. Certain items concerning my childhood are difficult to write about.
      2. The detail of other aspects is not problematic because I do not know any of you, you do not know me and the provision of these truths does not impact on my day to day life and need for fuel.
      3. I am not concerned with judgement from people here. If you do not like what I am and tell me so, fair enough. I find it irritating when people make a judgement based on inaccuracies about me however.
      4. I think some elements of it provide a degree of catharsis.

      1. Star says:

        Thank u very much for taking the time to answer my barrage of questions HG. I appreciate your honesty:)

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You are most welcome Star.

      2. Entertainment says:

        HG,
        I find your comment interesting. ” I find it irritating when people make a judgement based on inaccuracies about me however”. I think most comments on here reflects the hurt some commenters may still feel towards the narcs they associated with, others do it in a joking manner, some have their own motives, and many are still struggling with taken all this in.

        I hope no one goal is to come to your blog and personally cause you irritation. Thanks for sharing that, we are now program to think you are resilient and it doesn’t affect you at all.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Hello Entertainment, I agree that many comments do reflect the hurt that has been suffered and I also accept that this is often directed at me. I have no issue with that and indeed it provides a little fuel.
          If someone comments “HG you are a sick bastard and should be shot.” It is fuel and does not concern me.
          If someone comments “HG you and your kind are awful human beings. I hate you all.” It is fuel.
          I have no problem with people being insulting in that way and usually they have their rant and disappear or they realise that what is here is of considerable use to them. As I have said before, I do not need you to like me because of what I am and the best medicine is often the one which tastes the worst.
          However if your attack is based on something factually incorrect about me, the attack itself remains fuel but I am irritated by the inaccuracy and have to correct it because that is part of it being Challenge Fuel where I gain fuel and assert authority by pointing out the error.
          If someone advances an opinion from their own experiences, fair enough. I may well offer mine and it may disagree.

          1. Entertainment says:

            HG,
            Understood, and yes I have witnessed a more aggressive tone as to drill it in our head during a fuel conversation regarding us providing it too you. You made it very clear that we weren’t the ones doling it out. Also, someone minimized your experience as a child in contrast to theirs. I understand the difference.
            Thank you

          2. HG Tudor says:

            You are welcome.

      3. WEB says:

        Mr. Tudor,
        Guessing from the comments on this post (I always love a good mystery – to my detriment in my personal life – to my advantage in my love of reading) that you are a lawyer in real life?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          No I am not a lawyer. I have had involvement with legal proceedings and I have several solicitors and barristers in my inner and outer circle.

          1. Entertainment says:

            I must say I entertained the same thought. (Attorney/member of labour party) I look for in the parliament. 😊
            You mentioned that you had business to tend to in several prisons awhile back.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            The Labour party!!! I fear an attack of the vapours.
            Yes I did have such business. I have dealings politically.

          3. Entertainment says:

            Politics, so I must continue my search watching the parliaments. Although, I do find the more entertaining than informative.

          4. HG Tudor says:

            By all means watch Entertainment but you will have to be eagle-eyed to spot me.

          5. W.E.B. says:

            so you are a politician in the UK?

          6. HG Tudor says:

            No.

      4. Bronwyn says:

        #4 must be true.

        Being open, revealing your inner beast, is authentic and being real is empowering.

        #1 is sensible. Some things are best left unsaid.

  9. Bronwyn says:

    This piece captured so much truth of what I experienced from the very beginning, and confirms what I suspected all along: the thirst for fuel is truly beyond any desire a normal person can imagine. My narc friend would send copious dazzling emails, night and day, reflecting my quirky obsessions with philosophy, art, literature, psychology and the dark side human nature. Now I better understand why this person wrote beautifully composed essays that shed light on many mysteries. The good news is that the mirror they held up confirms something people have always said but which I always pooh-poohed — I am a beautiful person and no one can steal that or my unique vision. So, oddly, I’m rather grateful to my lovebombing narc friend. Thank you, HG, for writing so clearly. Your confession has fueled much insight. And faith. I escaped my narc friend and hope they are doing well.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are welcome Bronwyn.

  10. Mona says:

    What a big nonsense. There is nothing more to say about such a nonsense.

    1. screwyoudick says:

      Yeah I’m gonna have to call bullshit on that one too HG. I have come to the conclusion that the only thing I failed at was not leaving him flat on his pathetic ass sooner. I don’t miss Dr. Jeckyl / Mr. Hyde in the least….nope.

    2. superxena says:

      Mona…No offence but I find most of your comments non constructive..so if you find most of what is written here as “nonsense”.. Why do you even bother reading the articles? Just a question…I hope you do not take it personally although it sounds very personally!

      1. Mona says:

        Superxena, I do not take your criticism personally. My comments are reactions to HG`s writing and it is meant for him ( and besides it is a projection to my personal devil) . For me this article shows how ill his opinions are and how ill he is as a person. And I think, that his thoughts are big nonsense and crazy. I am here, because I was a target of a narcissist too. And it still angers me, that he could target me and could abuse me and that I was the girlfriend of a narcissistic psychopath.
        HG provides me with information about his illness and how his illness works. Therefore I am thankful. But that information does not include, that I have to support him or that I have to be loyal to him. Why should I adore him? Why should I cuddle him? He does a lot of evil in his private life. I have it always on my mind. I do not forget that. There are many helpful, compassionate comments for him, many people try to help him, to heal him. How does he react? I do not see any change of mind on his side. There are many people outside, who suffered in childhood the same like him or eventually much more than him and they fight to lead a normal life, they fight to be compassionate although they have not experienced any love or shelter. I adore them, not him.
        He knows that I am not a friend of him and he knew that there would be a lot of unfriendly comments to him, when he started this blog. Maybe I am hard. Maybe. I learnt to be cold and callous from my personal devil. It has had the opposite effect that he wished for me. He wanted me to be a submissive, destroyed person, now I am a callous person. I do not have any compassion for narcissists anymore. And as long as I am allowed, I will tell my own opinion.
        Please do not think, that HG is full of compassion for all his followers, he helps a lot of people to achieve his personal aims. I do not spin around, I only repeat his own words.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I am neither ill, nonsensical or crazy.
          My behaviour is labelled as a disorder, not an illness.
          Nothing I do is nonsensical or crazy. On the contrary, I operate through cool, hard logic. I act through instinct which is programmed to serve my best interests so I survive and thrive. I act through observation and calculation for the same outcome. In actual fact, it is people on your side of the fence who operate in a nonsensical manner since you allow emotional thinking to govern your responses resulting in bad decisions. That is why you get ensnared by us in the first place, remain ensnared and keep getting ensnared. I repeatedly advocate that gaining understanding which leads to the application of cool, hard logic results in good decisions to assist you in achieving freedom.
          I also explain that how from our perspective everything we say and do is based on toxic logic, which of course you do not agree with because you have a different perspective.
          I am honest about what I am and what I do.
          As I wrote earlier, I am unconcerned if you hate me, I recognise people will do so and based on the evil which I commit, I accept such hatred. I do not need your adoration, I achieve plenty of that in my private life for the things I do and achieve and although I am not at liberty to explain what I do as a profession, the fact you are able to express the views that you do and exercise your free speech and hold such opinions is down to people such as me.
          However, as I also wrote earlier today, I am unimpressed and irritated by views which are based on inaccuracies about me. Something you occasionally do and thus I must correct you as I have done so in this reply.
          Evil – yes. Ill, nonsensical and crazy? Not at all.

        2. superxena says:

          Hello Mona,
          Thank you for your answer. I read it several times before answering to you. I thought the best way of answering would be stating a
          ( funny) parallel that works both ways ,for both the Empath and the Narcissist:
          It is like expecting or hoping an apple tree to deliver….let’s say oranges or something different than apples!

          Let me explain myself better:

          1. You cannot ( as far as experts in the matter which I have consulted) expect a Narcissist to be empathic since he/she is completely lacking of empathy .Empathy is not a learned behaviour. But if the Narcissist has the cognitive function high enough to be aware of the negative effects of his/hers behaviour can try different paths to adapt( not able to change completely ) this behaviour to diminish the negative effects.But this is completely up to the Narcissist.
          2. You cannot expect the Empath to stop being empathic but an Empath can as well try to find different paths to avoid being susceptible to the Narcissist like being perhaps more objective and less emotional.
          I found a quote that I apply frequently to myself : “You cannot expect achieving perfection by training always the same wrong ways”

          You do not really have to adore,like,love or hate HG…I think that you would gain much more of HG’s articles by trying to be more objective…and believe me …as an Empath it has costed me lots and lots of training to gain objectiveness…
          As far as I am concerned..HG has nowhere pretended compassion to any of his bloggers…as a matter of fact he has been very honest by stating that his aim is not ” helping” people( I do not think he does that) but it is just a positive collateral effect of his work.
          I really hope you can get more knowledge and awareness of yourself through this site to help you finding your empathic side again and learning to protect it from further entanglements with narcissists.
          I wish you the best!😀

          Hello Mona,
          Thank you for your answer. I read it several times before answering to you. I thought the best way of answering would be stating a
          ( funny) parallel that works both ways ,for both the Empath and the Narcissist:
          It is like expecting or hoping an apple tree to deliver….let’s say oranges or something different than apples!

          Let me explain myself better:

          1. You cannot ( as far as experts in the matter which I have consulted) expect a Narcissist to be empathic since he/she is completely lacking of empathy .Empathy is not a learned behaviour. But if the Narcissist has the cognitive function high enough to be aware of the negative effects of his/hers behaviour can try different paths to adapt( not able to change completely ) this behaviour to diminish the negative effects.But this is completely up to the Narcissist.
          2. You cannot expect the Empath to stop being empathic but an Empath can as well try to find different paths to avoid being susceptible to the Narcissist like being perhaps more objective and less emotional.
          I found a quote that I apply frequently to myself : “You cannot expect achieving perfection by training always the same wrong ways”

          You do not really have to adore,like,love or hate HG…I think that you could gain much more of HG’s articles by trying to be more objective…and believe me …as an Empath it has costed me lots and lots of training to gain objectiveness…
          As far as I am concerned..HG has nowhere pretended compassion to any of his bloggers…as a matter of fact he has been very honest by stating that his aim is not ” helping” people( I do not think he does that) but it is just a positive collateral effect of his work.
          I really hope you can get more knowledge and awareness of yourself through this site to help you finding your empathic side again and learning to protect it from further entanglements with narcissists.
          I wish you the best!😀

      2. Mona says:

        Hello Superxena,
        thank you for your kind words and wishes. Yes, you are right, a narcissist will not change his opinion about life. There is no way to persuade him. The only one I can alter is myself.
        I was told from the beginning of my life to be respectful, caring, emphatic, modest, considerate, not to be jealous and envious and not to be proud of my achievements and my intelligence and so on. I was taught that anger, frustration, proud and sadness are bad character traits I should no show and even feel! . If I was an perfect angel, I would “earn” some love. When someone behaved bad to me and I saw he did not like me I was told to be compassionate because that was surely a poor child, which did not mean it like that. That child has had only some problems with itself. If things of my own were destroyed by other children I was told to be especially nice to them, then they would learn to be more nice to me. Even adults cried in front of me and asked for support for their little, angry children. I was such a lovely, reasonable girl. You do not know how many times I made a fist in my pocket and had to swallow my anger. But there was the lie of getting paradise, if I would behave like an angel. And I believed that lie. I think, my natural character traits are not that empathic as they seem. I have to develop my natural character traits. I have “enjoyed” the opposite of upbringing that HG “enjoyed.” I believe that both ways of upbringing are totally wrong. Thank God, my natural character traits were only hidden and suppressed, I did not develop into a doormate. That would have been counterproductive for my job and I struggled a long time to become less compassionate because that was how I was programmed by my parents. My mother is some kind of a holy victim narcissist, far away from reality. I have adapt in some way and – of course – sometimes exaggerate . I have shown enough empathy for the wrong people in my lifetime. That is over. And it would be the same way and behaviour I had shown and lived all my life and which was wrong many times: to be too empathic.

        1. superxena says:

          Hello Mona!
          Thank you for sharing part of your life story. This is one of the many positive things of this blog. I am not a psychologist but by the way you write it seems to me that you have an empathic side by nature. I do still think that empathy ( or the lack of it) are not learned behaviours.
          I think you would find very useful reading about
          HG’s subdivision of the Empathic Group( Co-Dependent, the Super Empath and the Empath) and the empathic-narcissistic spectrum .
          These articles were of great help to me understanding where in that spectrum I belong to. Seems to me that your empathic traits are natural…is just finding out where in that spectrum you belong to. Once you gain awareness of it…can you learn how to protect your susceptibility against narcissists. I really consider my empathic side as a very positive and precious trait . It is actually an asset.It is just a matter of learning who do you ” share” it with😀
          I hope you find this answer useful and supportive.
          Best wishes/Superxena

        2. superxena says:

          One more thing I forgot to say before I go to sleep( this blog is shortening my sleeping hours but it is worth):
          Another analogy: You can see yourself as a seed with its own natural traits whose outcome is defined by the soil it is planted …and where it grows…

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