The Narcissistic Truths – No. 242


269 thoughts on “The Narcissistic Truths – No. 242

  1. Ms brown says:

    Hey People, Read This:

  2. I wish this blog was more helpful in replies and organizing comments/ threads .
    Its hard to keep track sometimes. And figure out which comment goes with what.
    And then its not always easy to comment on a specific comment…. soo it just gets thrown out there…. cross your cyber fingers and hope for the best…

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You think so? Try moderating it and answering questions such as “What do you think HG?” when there is nothing else to refer to and when I click on the comment to try to find out more it takes me somewhere random! Good work wordpress.

      1. Exactly. Yes! Nice to not be the only 1. ! And i can imagine HG…. and under such conditions…. my good man…. Bravo! You are doing a moat stellar job. Your efforts are truly appreciated…. you make it look easy! πŸ˜‰

  3. Amy S. says:

    Well, I think due to the lack of any positive fuel from your side, emotion detective, HG wouldn’t even try with you.

  4. Mona says:

    Dr. Harleen Quinzel, I understand your perspective. I think/believe that all of us who where abused in different ways get in different phases to cope with that experience.First shell-shocked, then full of anger and hate. HG remained for a long time in that phase of anger, frustration and everything else. He could not get out of this phase for his whole life. Many of us now “enjoy” this phase too. We have the need to rage against someone else. I believe that this way to react is quite normal and nothing special. I for example do not have the inner distance to talk about the topic of narcissism without strong feelings. That is too much required. His topics always provoke strong feelings inside of me and he cannot understand that. And he provokes that every day. In his strange and bizarre world we seem to have no right to feel almost the same he does. It does not really fit in his belief system. We have to be victims and one of the characteristic of a victim is to suffer, to be a little bit angry and then to forgive all and to be empathetic again. That is the role we have to take in his eyes. He says he wants to weaponize empathetic people against narcissists. He forgets that this means, that the empathetic people have to learn first to be angry, very angry and have to learn to fight for themselves. Without rage no healing. That is my opinion. Maybe, others have a different way. After that phase or simultaneously I can learn to create boundaries, which ensure that I will never have to face such an experience again. He does not see how much that experience changed me. No wonder, he has no empathy. As long as he sees us like an object, there will be no real exchange of thoughts with him. Big daddy tells his opinion and we have to obey his orders. And he is disappointed, when we react in another way.
    Maybe you, Haarleen Quinzel, can change your experience into something useful, how can I? I am not a professional, who can use that knowledge for something good.
    Cognitive empathy for people who abuse other people? I don`t know. That means I have to accept or should accept their way of living. I am asked to accept abuse. Strange thought.
    It is a difference when you are a professional then you have to keep your own feelings and thoughts under control to see and feel with the other one without being personally involved and without judging him.
    That is not the task of all the blog followers. We are entitled to say our own opinion, to show our state of development. Of course- that has to be in a respectful manner. Many of us (me included) fail that sometimes.

  5. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

    I can completely understand the hurt and the anger that people feel because of the abuse they have been through. I struggle with this myself as a human being on a daily basis. I try my best to take my experience and make it into something productive and positive. I don’t know about you but I don’t want to be angry and depressed forever. I won’t let these traumatic experiences control my life. These painful lessons have actually been useful – they have allowed me to look inside and heal the pieces of myself that I let be exploited.

    I have come to find that I can still be extremely empathetic but that does not mean I will let others take advantage of me. I have created better boundaries. One can be empathetic but not allow themselves to be subjected to abuse.

    1. Shalome says:

      Doc. Harleen

      Being emphatic withouth abuses…
      that would be very good.. but difficult for an emphats after a lifetime being on the same cycle of receiving abuse from their giving… it becomes almost part of their expectations..
      read HG article :


  6. Mona says:

    Dr. Harleen Quenzel,, especially Robert Hare was duped by a psychopath, when he started his career. Do not forget that. But he owed his celebrity to this man. This man made him curious to search about psychopathy.
    I think, too much “sympathy for the devil” is dangerous. I understand that these people are like any other one, they want appreciation of being. Why do so many murderers try to find excuses for her homicides? They try to be seen as a “good one” even when they have to go to death row. They are only a few, who are proud of what they have done.
    HG, I do not compare you with those people. It is only a very extreme example.

    1. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

      I see your perspective and I’m not really suggesting sympathy – I’m suggesting having a bit more cognitive empathy in those situations to be honest with you. I promote understanding perspectives. I completely agree with you regarding the “too much sympathy for the devil” comment.

      1. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

        This most accurately describes my perspective:

        β€œTo be with another in this [empathic] way means that for the time being, you lay aside your own views and values in order to enter another’s world without prejudice. In some sense it means that you lay aside your self; this can only be done by persons who are secure enough in themselves that they know they will not get lost in what may turn out to be the strange or bizarre world of the other, and that they can comfortably return to their own world when they wish.”

        Perhaps this description makes clear that being empathic is a complex, demanding, and strong – yet subtle and gentle – way of being.”
        ― Carl R. Rogers, Way of Being

        1. NarcAngel says:

          Dr HQ
          Have you on this blog previously? Entered into discussion with Bloody Elemental, saying that you had hoped she would engage? You, or someone using a similar blog name was, and I recall thinking at the time that it was like that person was “collecting” profiles or case studies by the way they phrased some things. It may not have been the intention but it was my impression and their appearance was short-lived so I never had it clarified. As you can see presently-there can be issue with people claiming to be “researchers” and such, which casts doubt on others, and that may be causing some difficulty with trust for some of the commenters. I can locate the thread if need be.

          Just a side note: youre big on this Carl. Do you have some connection to him?

  7. Amy S. says:

    unlucky you!! Shame he is a narc then πŸ™„

  8. After all of that interesting stuff… 😊
    I just have a quick reply to Geminimom. The narc I was speaking of wears only the finest clothes but no underwear. He looks absolutely fine except for what I mentioned. Sometimes a suit jacket tones it down but other times it’s quite evident. He has a billion dollar voice and comes across with plenty of class so I just have to clarify that, although he is what he is. 😊

  9. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

    “In my deepest contacts with individuals in therapy, even those whose troubles are most disturbing, whose behavior has been most anti-social, whose feelings seem most abnormal, I find this to be true. When I can sensitively understand the feelings which they are expressing, when I am able to accept them as separate persons in their own right, then I find that they tend to move in certain directions. And what are these directions in which they tend to move? The words which I believe are most truly descriptive are words such as positive, constructive, moving toward self-actualization, growing toward maturity, growing toward socialization.”
    Carl R. Rogers, On Becoming a Person: A Therapist’s View of Psychotherapy

    1. Ms brown says:

      Dr H… our perception IS our reality… If we can change our perception, then we can change our reality, yes? your opinion please…

  10. strongerwendy says:

    Oh my…just catching up. The HG-hive has been busy today! πŸ™‚

  11. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

    “True empathy is always free of any evaluative or diagnostic quality. This comes across to the recipient with some surprise. “If I am not being judged, perhaps I am not so evil or abnormal as I have thought.”
    Carl R. Rogers

  12. Angelic says:

    Please HG
    can you post my experience regarding the good young man who wasn’ t a narcs before .. but became one afterwards?
    Some other women might benefit from your imput.
    Thanks a lot.

  13. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

    1. NarcAngel says:

      Thirty Seconds to Mars-Hurricane
      Interesting , but what was your purpose for posting it? Was there a specific message you were trying to convey?

    2. That was a lot longer than 30 seconds. πŸ˜‰

  14. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

    I understand that this blog stirs up many intense emotions in many. HG is providing everyone with a very unique experience. I really cannot stress that enough. Regardless of his motives for creating the blog and continuing to write his books everyone benefits. It is very difficult for me as a psychologist…more importantly as a human being watching people judge him.

    There are some people who sit behind their screens attacking him and/or trying to push their own beliefs, thinking and morality on him. None of it is productive.

    Sometimes people just want to be understood. Sometimes people just want to know it is okay to just be. I’m asking all of you to take that into consideration.

    I have personal and professional experience with psychopaths and narcissists. Yes, a psychologist can get involved with one. Interestingly enough I have come across many narcissists in the mental health field AND in narcissist support groups.

    There are some people here that speak as if they have a degree. It is very frustrating for me because you are sometimes conveying inaccurate information.

    I encourage everyone to join journals and really read the research in depth.

    1. E. B. says:

      Hi Harley πŸ™‚
      Are you still working as a psychologist at the Arkham Asylum on the outskirts of Gotham City? πŸ™‚

      1. Sophia says:

        good question EB

    2. Angelic says:

      Dr Harleen etc..

      I doubt you are what you claim to be.
      Apologies if you really are one of course.
      but that would be even more upsetting for me if you are one because in writing what you wrote it is not of any help either then. No offences.
      ” IT IS OKAY TO BE”??
      No.. it is not okay to be hurting others, NO IS NOT.
      Narcs should be helped to not wanting to be accepted… but help them to come to not accept their own destructive behaviour.. that would be a good endouver to do especially as a Doctor.
      For me .. i will continue to try the narcs who are involved with to come to that realisation..
      accept him? .. yes .. but keep on re- enforcing that his behaviour it is unacceptable.

      1. alexis =)~ says:

        Nice angelic. I concur with you.

      2. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

        You are very wrong – I am everything I say I am. I would be more than happy to engage you off the blog and show you my credentials. I am published as well. You are misinterpreting my message. I don’t condone the abusive behavior.

      3. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

        That is why you will constantly Be disappointed.

      4. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

        It is quite inappropriate for you to tell me how to do my job. This not your field or profession; however you are entitled to your opinion but you are stepping out of bounds.

        It is always important to not speak beyond your expertise. The way you convey your messages come off as judgemental and will not be received by any narcissist.

        Let me once again stress I do not condone abusive behavior. There are alternative ways to deal with the feelings they experience than to be abusive.

      5. Angelic says:

        Doc. Harleen

        You do not condone abusive behaviour ??
        From who?
        You sound like a narcs yourself.
        Sorry but that is what i perceive.

      6. Matilda says:

        “There are alternative ways to deal with the feelings they experience than to be abusive.”

        So, in your intellectual brilliance, unmatched hitherto by any of us mere mortals gathered here, would you be so kind as to explain how you treat narcissists?

        You have got the degree, therefore, *you must know all the answers*. Enlighten us!

      7. Matilda says:

        I cannot wait for your divine wisdom to shine a light, doc. So, how are you working your magic?

        Perhaps you are hugging them until they break down and cry. I am sure they are turning into lambs in your loving arms. Or perhaps you are talking with them until they open their hearts to you and promise to never do it again. Problem sorted. Or perhaps a prayer to the Lord will stop him from beating his wife to a pulp?! No? Well, she clearly forgot to talk to him in a non-judgemental way!

        Woe on me, I do not have the *correct* degrees. So, I will have to leave it to you, and your brilliant mind, to educate us!

    3. Sophia says:

      No Doc Harleen

      We here in blog we speak by experience being with narcs.
      We do get knowledge from the very ” horse mouth” ( the narcs) so to speak.
      Their horrific behaviuor…
      which it is inexcusable.

    4. Indy says:

      Hi Doc,
      Fellow clinician here, masters in psych. I too have personal and professional exp and would love to here more about some of work you do and if comfortable, personal exp too. My background/orientations are DBT, trauma informed therapy, with a specialty with adolescents and young adults with emotional dysreg and BPD. I’m also a behaviorist with odd bends into eastern and existential. I love learning from others and what works. I also do diagnostics(for 20yrs), primarily in the developmental disorders/necropsy testing field(under dr supervision). It’s nice to be able to share knowledge here😊 And, I agree, HGs work here is invaluable. His work helped me escape last year.

      1. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

        Hey there!

        I specialize in ADHD and executive functioning, personality disorders, externalizing disorders. I am eclectic but am more humanistic and cbt. I do therapy and psychological testing (including typical psychoeducational Evals and neuropsychs)

      2. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

        I love meeting other people in my field! Hopefully we can become friends and learn from eachother πŸ™‚

      3. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

        I focus a lot on learning disabilities as well.

      4. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

        I currently work with the emotionally disturbed – and juvenile offenders

        1. Indy says:

          Hi Doc,
          Cool, we have some overlap in interests and experience 😊 I love working with adolescents. I’d love to hear more about the types of intervention you have seen helpful with juvenile offenders. That is one population I have no experience with and am very curious. I’ve done more work wth those with self harming and suicidal ideation/attempts. One adult with significant psychopathy, though that is not my expertise. Testing wise, I assess for Autism spectrum primarily, though ADHD and LD is very close to my heart as well. Anyhow, somehow our paths meet here, with such an amazing teacher (HG) and amazing support here too (sure, it gets heated but that’s what happens in groups). Glad to “meet” you and looking forward to hearing more about your journey getting here too!

      5. Sophia says:

        Dr Harleen

        With all respect.. but you are showing a very defensive spirit..
        Usually i stay away from any critisms that happens on this blog…. but, for a start i and many other like me, being abused for many years by “poor misunderstood” Mr. or Mrs Narcs..
        we might actually have a very good and justifiable reason to critisize anyone that pops up as Mister Knowing all Psyche.

        With all your verifiable ” credentials” why are you on the defensive path?
        We ( victims as HG call us) should have ” credential” after having loved and care for narcs for years.

        WE KNOW.


      6. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:


        I find it very interesting to watch particular commenters continue to lack insight.

        1. Indy says:

          We all are at different stages of healing and leaving. Some are out of their abusive relationships but still stalked, some are still in. That is really how I see it here and try to understand when things get really heated or if comments do not make sense. Now, I will say this. Those that have survived and learned a lot (in their personal therapy or from HG or both) and have a lot of insight and are quite knowledgeable and have taught me and introduced me to books and such. Some have been severely traumatized and understandably are emotionally more sensitive and less controlled. I am very lucky to not have suffered some of the traumas shared here, though I have my own healing. I try to listen, learn and relate. I share some of my experiences here (personal) as that is what led me here and was my original goal (still healing from leaving a mid range narcissist from last year. I was engaged and totally in love, until the psych abuses started. He was big on gas lighting and thepsychological abuse was intense. The hovering triggered past staling stuff in me as well.) I sometimes also share some helpful bits of info that I have learned in my professional training, though I am mainly here to absorb, heal, laugh and learn πŸ™‚

      7. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

        Indy thought you would appreciate this 😜

      8. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

        By the way if your write to Yalom he answers – ah so cool love it lol!

        1. Indy says:

          No way?! I’ve never written but absolutely love his work/writing. Now I’m curious😊

    5. sarabella says:

      HG can take care of himself. Stop being the cyber police, thought police and behavioral police.

      1. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

        I think you should reflect on that comment.

        1. sarabella says:

          Don’t need to. I am not the one on a pulpit. LOL

      2. Angelic says:

        Sarabella i perceive that this illustrous doc.. is a narcs.
        i can smell it now even through the web. Thanks to HG.
        Anyone thoughts?

        1. sarabella says:

          Yup. Me too. I got that ick feeling inside as well. It now has that distinct smell to it.

      3. smokenmirrors says:

        Be gone peasant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! talkin bout sarabella

      4. sarabella says:

        You must feel small Smokey Mirrors.

    6. Sarah says:

      So arrogant mr. Doc. Harleen
      Are you a narcs yourself?
      Trying to intimidate some sensitive souls on this blog?
      Very unprofessional i would say.

      1. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:


        I’m trying to be helpful. I don’t feel as though I need to defend my behavior since I am not acting inappropriate or out of line in any way. I do realize that you cannot hear the way in which I am speaking or see my body language. Quite frankly you are in not position to tell me how to behave in my profession. The way in which you interpret my comments conveys how you perceive and filter events and information. I never had or have any ill intent – especially on a blog where I relate to many of the sufferers. I truly hope you find some inner peace and gain some more insight and perspective.

      2. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

        It would probably be of service to you to play with the idea of taking another role other thn victim.

      3. sarabella says:

        I have worked around academics for over 20 years. Their brand of narcissism is something to behold. Talk about entitled myopic folks some of them. I know of a few that scream endlessly about climate change, being scientists. and learned folks. while they keep having kids, travel alot in planes and cars and all. Gotta wonder sometimes. This “Dr” shows up, starts spouting knowledge and then disappears. smells alot like a narc to me, too.

    7. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:


      I do not claim to know everything. The leading researchers in the field don’t have the answers. I certainly have my observations, hypotheses, and alternative strategies. There are a few that have been working pretty well with some of my psychopathic, sociopathic, and narcissitic populations.

      The way in which you are approaching me is very antagonistic and disrespectful. Communicating in this way will not result in you getting what you want whether it is an answer, something tangible, or whatever it is you wish to obtain.

      1. Matilda says:

        Interesting how quick you are at labelling others as disrespectful, Doc. ‘Where has your non-judgemental empathy gone?’, I wonder.

        I suggest you take a good look at yourself and reflect upon your patronising, condescending, arrogant, presumptuous, self-righteous ways of expressing yourself.

        Your attitude is PRECISELY WHY I will never speak with a psychologist. And luckily, I do not need any of your kind. Because I am smart enough to have figured it out myself!

    8. Ms brown says:

      I just came across your comment, Dr H, and I couldn’t agree with you more. Especially regarding “people wanting to be understood” and to be open and not judge…

      1. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

        Hey Ms. Brown!

        It is amazing what a nonjudgmental stance can do in general. It really enhances all different types of relationships. I don’t just try to do that with clients – I try to do that with everyone I encounter.

        It is unfortunate there are some people on this blog that immediately believe I either condone abuse or am defending destructive behavior. I was simply trying to say that we should all be mindful of the way in which we communicate with others and try to have an open mind so that we are all able to see others perspectives. I don’t believe in pushing my thoughts, feelings, ideas, and overall morality on another.

        It is quite comforting that you received my message.

        I just try to be helpful and informative. πŸ™‚

    9. Nicely said.
      Did u see my ex husband in that narcicisst support group doing research..i mean getting therapy from me? πŸ˜‰

  15. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

    “we cannot change, we cannot move away from what we are, until we thoroughly accept what we are. Then change seems to come about almost unnoticed.”
    Carl R. Rogers, On Becoming a Person

    “If I let myself really understand another person, I might be changed by that understanding. And we all fear change. So as I say, it is not an easy thing to permit oneself to understand an individual,”
    Carl R. Rogers, On Becoming a Person: A Therapist’s View of Psychotherapy

  16. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

    TRUST IN ONE’S ORGANISM A second characteristic of the persons who emerge from therapy is difficult to describe. It seems that the person increasingly discovers that his own organism is trustworthy, that it is a suitable instrument for discovering the most satisfying behavior in each immediate situation. If this seems strange, let me try to state it more fully. Perhaps it will help to understand my description if you think of the individual as faced with some existential choice: β€œShall I go home to my family during vacation, or strike out on my own?” β€œShall I drink this third cocktail which is being offered?” β€œIs this the person whom I would like to have as my partner in love and in life?” Thinking of such situations, what seems to be true of the person who emerges from the therapeutic process? To the extent that this person is open to all of his experience, he has access to all of the available data in the situation, on which to base his behavior. He has knowledge of his own feelings and impulses, which are often complex and contradictory. He is freely able to sense the social demands, from the relatively rigid social β€œlaws” to the desires of friends and family. He has access to his memories of similar situations, and the consequences of different behaviors in those situations. He has a relatively accurate perception of this external situation in all of its complexity. He is better able to permit his total organism, his conscious thought participating, to consider, weigh and balance each stimulus, need, and demand, and its relative weight and intensity. Out of this complex weighing and balancing he is able to discover that course of action which seems to come closest to satisfying all his needs in the situation, long-range as well as immediate needs.
    Carl R. Rogers, On Becoming a Person

    1. NarcAngel says:

      Is Carl the guy who played Meathead on All in the Family? Sounds like him.

      1. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

        Now I’m just hungry lol.

      2. strongerwendy says:

        Meatheads name was Michael in the show…but the father of the actor who played him was Carl (Reiner)….my mind stores lots of trivial info. …I’m great for a trivia night though…😜😝

        1. NarcAngel says:

          Ah yes, it was Rob son of Carl. I stand corrected. Ok sounds like something Rob/Michael would say. Very important to him but lost on Archie and Edith. I hope I got those two right.

    2. Love says:

      I read that as “trust in one’s orgasm”. Thought to myself, yes, yes, such an inspirational statement. Yes I trust!

      1. NarcAngel says:

        Haha I bet there were a few more yeses than that and that they got louder.

        1. Love says:

          Lolol! I was inspired 😁

  17. CopiLuna says:


    My Narcs mother has terminal cancer and will pass in the next 6 months. She is also a Narc.

    My ex has never experienced death to anyone close to him. Will this event (the death of his mother) change him in anyway? Or will he continue to be the same person?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      He will use the death of his mother to further his own agenda.

  18. Ange Baby says:

    I asked him why he treated me like that. Repsonse: Don’t Know. Why did you say those things. Response: Don’t know. A cop out

  19. Misty says:

    Oh I’ve no doubt we’re dealing with a very clever Greater in you HG. Having devised a way to bask in fuel under the pretext of benevolence is … a narc after my own heart.

    Prolific writing. Hmmmm.

    Like the mythical vampire who drinks manufactured blood, benevolently sparing the humans around him, is this manufactured fuel sparing those in your life from you?

    Never stop.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      They are not being spared but I am adopting a different approach in some instances which I shall be sharing in due course.

      1. strongerwendy says:

        I was wondering how many fuel points we get…

      2. Twilight says:

        And a few more questions……

  20. CopiLuna says:

    Thank you for this blog-it is literally saving my life.

    My Narcs mother, whom has terminal cancer is the reason for ex’s tendencies and also Narc like my ex.

    When she passes, any guess if this will change my ex behavior or am I reaching for straws?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are welcome.

      I don’t understand your second paragraph, could you clarify please?

  21. Misty says:

    HG, I have been following you on YouTube for a while now. I’ve just watched time and the narcissist, both parts, and was quite surprised when you said that the victim/greater combination does not exist. What is your explanation for that?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      The Greater will play the victim card from time to time, but his or elevation and superiority in terms of behaviour means that a Greater just does not have the traits which match the Victim Cadre.

      1. Angelic says:


        i know that very well
        when he feels that the exposure that i can precipitated in him his lines are always more or less this (copy and paste from his own writing)


        I put stars in place of his name.

      2. Angelic says:


        and before his grandious statement of himself he sent me this when he felt i put him in the spotlight:


        And after @ 15 minutes he sent me this:

        “You are the love of my life – I want to be with you, and we are going to be together.
        There are no other women!!!!”

        So confusing, and hurtful.

  22. Oh……. I’m sure this can’t be true…. what you mean is “later.” That’s what i always heard.
    **Cue crickets…… **

    I’ve been divorced now almost 2 years from him…. I’m sure he’ll get around to it eventually…. he “says” he’s a man of his word..
    Oh gosh…. i forgot the question…. I’m still waiting…

    1. Angelic says:


      Yes, cute crickets. πŸ˜‚
      I think is their way to keep us in suspence in theatre..

      1. Its their way to aggravate us, get a reaction and get fuel.
        I do not miss 1 bit of my ex narc and all of his demonic crazy narcicisst ways. Maddening. Best day of my life …9.11.15. Permanent and legal divorce from that maniac. However…. we do share 4 kids together. So coparenting is a nightmare… but thanks to the great and powerful OZ here. ( πŸ˜‰ HG)
        I think ill make it ok. Learned a lot here to help my cause. Forever grateful.

  23. Amy S. says:

    And he wears toddler type socks. Like pink or yellow colour ones. This really is strange

    1. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

      That’s hilarious. My mid-range narc had the most ridiculous socks. To be fair they were entertaining but insanely childish.

      1. Amy S. says:

        I was once going to ‘complement’ him on his socks choice. That was before I realised who he was. Thank god I dint otherwise he would go into rage. Poor guy …

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Socks are important Amy S.

          1. Amy S. says:

            He always thinks any complements are backhanded, especially complements by me, so I am careful now πŸ˜“πŸ‘€

          2. Twilight says:

            What color socks do you wear?

          3. HG Tudor says:

            Today I am wearing a pair from TM Lewin which are navy blue with sky blue at the toe, heel and top.
            Tomorrow : HG details which cuff links he is wearing.

          4. Twilight says:

            Please tell suit and tie color to, with the update on cuff links tomorrow

          5. HG Tudor says:

            Easy Twilight, don’t get greedy, this isn’t GQ you know!

          6. Twilight says:

            Lol I will try and behave πŸ˜‰

          7. Love says:

            Tomorrow cannot come soon enough πŸ˜‰ πŸ˜€

          8. MLA - Clarece says:

            Do you coordinate your boxers with your socks? lol

          9. HG Tudor says:


          10. NarcAngel says:

            Im still hung up on why hes wearing some other guys socks.

          11. HG Tudor says:

            Ha ha very good.

          12. alexis =)~ says:

            Hahaha, can’t wait!
            Hg, I had to take a break from here. After listening to your voice and reading your words, I was reminded of an ex greater. I had a summertime going with him. Back then I didn’t know much about N’ism, I just knew he reminded me of my dad, ha! He had/has an Australian accent, was taller than me (in 5’10”), alot older and asked me to live w him. For whatever reason, I declined. And I discarded him.

            I demoted myself and have been dealing with a mid ranger, though still oscillating between what the heck he is. I just discarded him yesterday, good grief, when will I learn?!

            HG, is it possible, for those of us that have REALLY figured things out that even a greater becomes transparent, predictable, contrived and a joke to us?

            Anyhow, I’m back and glad to be back.

          13. HG Tudor says:

            You might regard a Greater as transparent. You could predict certain behaviours of course but not all, not because a Greater behaves in a haphazard way but rather because of the extent of our reach.

            It would be unwise to treat a Greater as a joke – either to his or her face or with regards to how you consider them at arms’ length.

            You can however ensure you protect yourself with regard to the Greater.
            Pleased to see you are glad to be back.

          14. ballerina9 says:

            Enough of this “fashion foreplay”!

            HG, please describe the only “cuffs” that matter. The “hand” ones.

            Do you offer a broad selection to your victims? Β Platinum, silver…. I’ll take the diamond-crusted ones please… πŸ”—

          15. NarcAngel says:

            Jewelry is nice but not always necessary. A wordless touch to the wrist or ankle or a finger snap and point should hold an obedient in place as effectively as any cuff. After all ** tilts head** you really dont want to leave do you?

          16. ballerina9 says:

            Narc Angel,
            Cuffs as jewelry (ha ha) … highly necessary on a feisty super empath.

            Leaving is not an permitted once inside the Tudor Red Chamber.
            Escape is my only option.
            I must steal the key from HG’s pocket -or cut his index off- Β if it’s a finger print controlled door. If it’s retina access… he’s in deep trouble…so am I!

  24. Karma says:

    Exactly so I have up and got my closure here!
    I’m happy again after understanding that he will never be able to give closure. I’m happy to be out of his twisted life!!
    Calm Sunday with friends and relaxing … instead of his crazy Sunday’s with his crazy family family and issues.
    My kids are happy too.. that is what counts

    Life is good!

    1. NarcAngel says:

      Good for you. Make your own crazy.

      1. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

        You might actually be my spirit animal. I enjoy your comments. I would say something like “make your own crazy” lol!

  25. Matilda says:

    Extremely vexing behaviour… his tactics of evading the truth… truths I have known in my heart all along… but I made him suffer, too… I did not stop asking the same questions, and completely ‘malfunctioned’ while I was waiting for the answers. There’s no reason to give them what they want if you do not receive what you need – the beauty of giving and taking πŸ™‚

    1. Angelic says:

      I don’ t know about other women
      but it seems that i cannot give up trying different tacticts to ask the same questions to him…
      it is getting amusing, as more or less now is what the relationship seems to have morphed into… i sound like a broken record.. and so is he,
      in saying :
      ” i will, i will”
      and this has been going on for over 2 years now ..
      Basically we see each other just for that ..

      1. Matilda says:


        I tried that at first, the reasonable approach… also re-framing my questions, thinking I was perhaps not expressing myself clearly enough. When I realised the error of my ways, and my blood started to boil, I changed course. He learned the lesson eventually.

        “Like a broken record”, indeed. πŸ˜€

    2. windstorm2 says:

      Exactly Matilda!

      1. Matilda says:

        πŸ˜€ πŸ˜€

    3. sarabella says:

      I asked and asked for closure which as I look back, for really an explanation wanted for how horribly he treated me. Things he said in the golden period didnt add up and at the time, I didn’t get the game. But then one day, I asked a question and it seemed unrelated to all the others but it wasn’t. It was the question he answered that exposed all the Heartbreaking lies. A simple answer that was my extremely painful closee that I then explained how he finally gave it to me. More raging waves of pain, I totally malfunctioned, but that was my closure more or less. Showed me it was all a bunch of lies. Still don’t know fully one part of the why, 2hay all that after 30 years, but HG one day when I speak with him might shed some more specific light.

      But if you ask and ask, eventually you can put together something that looks like truth. Their contradictions do eve tually tell the story.

    4. Sophia says:

      re: in evading the truth..
      I am now convinced that the narc i am involved with might be a greater .. because of the uncanny ways he can diverge truths.. its unbelievable…
      It enraged me..
      He now goes to the extreme of glossing that dark smoke in front of me with a barrage of love words .. right in the middle of a nasty cruel dark smoke blow!!!!
      Man .. its unberably frustrating..
      I get furious.. which must be the fuel is seeking nowadays..
      as he senses that i want to escape him.

      HG ?

      1. HG Tudor says:

        He may well be, I would need more information. Yes, you becoming angry will provide the fuel that is sought.

      2. Sophia says:

        I’ ve said that i would like a session with you HG..
        Eventually i will do so.

  26. NarcAngel says:

    Yeah. Like when you ask boxers or briefs.

    1. strongerwendy says:

      Has HG answered that question? Which is it, boxers or briefs?

      1. strongerwendy says:

        Found the answer -or answer that doesn’t answer the question πŸ™‚ in another post.

      2. HG Tudor says:


        1. NarcAngel says:

          Re: boxers

          Thank you. That helps with my research and by research I mean profile and by profile I mean scenario and by scenario I mean fantasy.
          Back to Sex And the Narcissist with a more complete picture……

      3. I knew it. If it was briefs…i would’ve been surprised….

  27. Al says:

    How can you expect (honest) answers from them? They have less grey matter and or under-developed/damaged areas of their pre-frontal cortex regions of the brains. They are mentally and intellectually challenged, and have the capacity of a child between 3-7 years old. What does a child do when you when caught out?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      May apply to some but but not all. Are you suggesting for instance that I’m intellectually challenged?

      1. Indy says:

        Very polite response to such a suggestion,HG. I’d be a bit more heated myself.

        Hi Al, Some of the most cognitively intelligent individuals in top positions have, at minimum, narcissistic traits if not fully on the NPD spectrum. These folks are quite bright-some of the best of the best in what they do and in conning others. The ultimate chess players socially when it comes to manipulation and charm. I think what you are referencing is the parts of the brain that are more impulse control related, not intellectual. And this too varies individually. Further, there are different types of “intelligence”. cognitive and emotional intelligence being only a couple types. Surely you are referencing more the emotional intelligence side. A better description though would be from a trauma informed perspective rather than a developmental disability perspective.

      2. strongerwendy says:

        …the flicker of fury from HG…

      3. MLA - Clarece says:

        H.G., you are by no means and far from intellectualy challenged. What I interpreted Al’s comment to mean is there is research showing that you may have a smaller amygdala in your brain because your empathy circuitry was compromised. Whether by your childhood abuse, genetic make-up or both. You have cognitive empathy because you understand the pain and hurt you may cause in achieving your aims. You lack affective empathy not being to feel and relate to that pain though inflicted on others because they are like objects; to turn on, off or pause.
        By what you have shared with your upbringing and relationship with MatriNarc, I would say the abuse suffered factored in tremendously with your emotional development.
        The research of John Bowlby (my favorite for attachment and bonding with babies), shows that failing to nurture children with parental (or caretaker) affection, give praise, reassurance and a feeling of safety to help form trust and self-confidence can cause irreversible damage. This you will always have triggers putting you in defensive mode.

      4. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

        Intellectually you are at least in the superior range and I have to low ball it only because I haven’t performed cognitive testing on you. You have excellent executive functioning skills. Furthermore, your intellect and amazing executive functioning skills have most likely served as a protective factor for you (when you compare high functioning psychopaths with ones who end up in prison).

    2. NarcAngel says:

      The information you present would suggest that they would be unable to hold jobs much less careers, or accomplish great things despite their disorder, which we know not to be true. It also labels those who engage in sexual congress with them pedophiles. You must be speaking of a very small faction and in the broadest strokes of research or you are intellectually challenged yourself.

      1. Actually, from my experience, and observation, a large portion of them are unable to hold jobs compared to normal people.
        The need to seek fuel on daily basis, low energy levels, often criminal background, inability to comprehend and follow modern society rules, anti social behaviors, etc. are major factors why they don’t accomplish pretty much anything positive.
        The majority of narcs I know currently spend 99% of time in their caves, boltholes and such, sleeping during the day, and spending night time on perfecting the manipulation techniques, schemes, etc.
        The majority, sans the greater narcs, are under functioning.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Those are the Lessers.

          1. Yes those are the lessers, but midrangers even though they have jobs, they don’t last as long, because they always do something to fuck it up. It may take a year, or more, sometimes a couple weeks, it depends, but they end up unemployed more often than employed.
            And they all do not like the idea of slaving for an empath or a normal, or anyone else.

          2. NarcAngel says:

            E. D
            I have experienced some Lessers but mostly Mids. The Lessers worked at low paying jobs but worked full-time and steady. The Mids were all in long term high paid careers and had lists of accomplishments as well as fund raising and charitable events outside of their work, so our experiences are different. Do you live in an economically depressed area?

          3. You’re such a narc and a liar.

          4. NarcAngel says:

            E. D
            You forgot gay.

          5. Love says:

            When did Mr. Tudor become gay?

          6. Twilight says:

            I have asked ED twice now to show the facts proving HG is gay, and the crickets are still chirping
            By the way how are you doing?

          7. Love says:

            Hi Twilight. I’m doing good. There are frogs that sing at night in the pond near my house. They come around this time of year. I am happy to see the chorus is back. The party is in full swing 😁
            How are you?

          8. Twilight says:

            I am doing great! I spent the evening Sunday laying on a trampoline watching the night sky and listening to the crickets and owls.
            I agree I am happy for the evening chorus of the nightlife.

          9. Love says:

            That sounds amazing Twilight! I want to sleep under the open sky! I haven’t done that since childhood.

          10. Twilight says:

            Lol that is what I call a nightlife, not going to the clubs. Many people just don’t understand why. I do go out just not as often as others, it is just to much energy at times and I can’t relax, not with out an outlet to pour that energy into.

          11. Love says:

            It is exhausting soaking up everyone’s emotions in a nightclub. The only way I’ve been able to do it is to be completely inebriated. Which is counterproductive, because alcohol numbs all your incredible senses.

          12. Twilight says:

            I wish it did that to me, yet then again I would become an alcoholic if it did.
            I have found something that helps

          13. Love says:

            What have you found? Do share

          14. Twilight says:

            I am sorry at this time I will not share.
            I do know what works for you will be revealed to you and you will understand it for what it is.
            Yet I am happy to read your fascination with Greaters is over, I have been very concern for you for a while.

          15. Love says:

            Thank you Twilight ❀

    3. Angelic says:

      No Al

      the one i am involved has a very high intellectualiy .. he remember facts, stories.. names , places from History, Geography , Religion.. etc… etc… etc..
      It is on the emotional side that is totally unbalanced .. and so are the many other narcs.

      1. Amy S. says:

        Exactly the same.he keeps doing these quizzes with questions about history, geography, politics, etc he seems to know everything about anything , but on the emotional level he is like a toddler

      2. Angelic says:

        By the way
        i am emotionally unbalanced as well.. probabily even more than him..

    4. gabbanzobean says:

      Not sure if mine was intellectually challenged because he used large vocab words and always had a way with communicating those words but I definitely see him as a little boy. He had an obsession with all things super hero which was the one thing we seemed to NOT have in common. I men’s I know of Superman and Batman and so on but not in the way he did. He enjoyed “teaching” me all about it. He even referred to himself as Superman (in a joking way) but looking back now I bet he really thought he was. He often wore superhero shirts. I just figured he was a child at heart or something. But nope that really was his mental state. An immature little boy.

      1. Amy S. says:

        Mine is well educated, well read, opinionated and well spoken. But there are times, quite often, when his ‘toddler’ behaviour comes out. I always thought he was immature, childish. He listens to Justin Bieber!! At first I was like, what???

      2. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

        I’m a personal fan of NarcAngel lol – you’re awesome haha.

    5. Narcissists are emotionally challenged, I think this is the most correct way to describe the disorder. It has nothing to do with intellect.
      There is the Intelligence IQ and Emotional IQ. They are made of different type of neurons, and their location is separate from each other. However, in healthy individuals the EQ augments the IQ, making the understanding of reality deeper, more three dimensional.
      Narcissists may seem to be intellectually challenged, but when you look at the concrete situation, you will see it’s related to the emotional understanding of reality.
      I hope this clarifies things a bit.

      1. NarcAngel says:

        Serious question. What are your qualifications to always be clarifying things? You talk a lot about neurons and such and assert “research ” findings but never state the source. A lot of it sounds like just your opinion-like when you stated HG was gay. Those kinds of statements make your “findings” suspect and consequently clarify nothing. If its your theory or opinion well you know the saying…………Theyre like assholes-everyones got one.

        1. A tinge of fury, perhaps?

          1. NarcAngel says:

            E D

            No fury at all. Just a question to clarify things. Surely a question does not equate to fury for you? You must have many yourself in your research. Where can I find your research on mirror neurons?

          2. Love says:

            Hi Emotion Detective. I haven’t read the full thread to know how this debate came about. I understand you may feel like you’re being personally attacked for your comments. I have enjoyed reading your perspective in the past, though they’re very different than mine. One thing that came to mind is that you may not have many personal experiences with narcs (outside of a professional research setting). Some of your theories have proven untrue for me because I’ve had intimate relations with a wide assortment of narcs. Of various races, socio-economical status, education, professions, and work ethics. They cannot all be placed into a neat little box. I understand that you believe that NPD is just a label and empathy can be re-learned. I hope that theory proves true and wish you the best in your research.

          3. Hi Love, I never said empathy can be learned. Empathy is a function of the brain, one of many. It’s like you either are intelligent or not, same with empathy, you either have the mirror neurons or not.
            Compare our brain to trees, some have millions of trees, some thousands. Some trees have healthy branches, that carry healthy leaves and then fruit. And then you have trees the opposite of that. Our brains are not different. It all depends where you grew up, and who your parents were, and what type of genetic material you inherited.

          4. I meant to say some trees will have millions of leaves.

      2. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

        Are you a psychologist, psychiatrist, neurologist or neuroscientist? I’m very curious. I ask because I am psychologist.

        1. IF YOU SAY SO.

        2. Aww Victoria is jealous.. Peace’s first lieutenant noticed he pays too much attention to another woman..

          1. NarcAngel says:

            Dr. HQ
            Im sure a review of previous posts will confirm patient.

          2. Twilight says:

            How are you today?

          3. NarcAngel says:

            Im great, thank you for asking. And yourself? Im sure I read on another thread that you have been troubled with some information you received. I hope you have sorted that out where you are concerned and that it does not affect your sleep/health. Also you mentioned your in-laws visit. Are they narcs? Forgive me, I came late to the party and know little about your situation. And I respect if you prefer it to stay that way. In any case I hope you are well and having a good day.

          4. Twilight says:

            I am great thanks for asking!
            You haven’t missed anything, I have been low key as to my life.
            There are many in my family that are narcissistic, my grandmother raised me to which she is one, after my parents abandoned me with her when news of me being molested repeatedly started to surface. I was forced to marry into an even worse family. My in laws visited me at work, they wanted me to employ one of them, for a moment I actually thought about it. When I didn’t do as they wished they started stirring trouble for me only to find they are talking to the walls. I was put into my store for a reason, my career is secure. They don’t like not getting their way and I am just amused.
            I am just relaxing before I have to pull 10 days straight at work. I will be glad when it’s over as to our third manager will be here and I will have some more time to tackle something’s I am passionate about.

          5. NarcAngel says:

            You thought about it, but then you remembered the strength and knowledge you have acquired and became a wall. Good for you. Dont let them breach it and keep that part of your life walled off. It sounds like you have pride in what you do and it is your financial independence if needed. Never let that go.

          6. Twilight says:


            Thank you

          7. Twilight says:

            Seriously when are you going to start showing facts to your statements?
            What proof do you have that
            1 Peace is a narc and Victoria is his lieutenant?
            2 If this statement is true they are here on this blog, how do you even know this to be true?
            3 making accusations that are false shows ignorance.

            The only thing I see is your opinion of things and nothing factual. You claim to be a super empath, yet those like you helped him spread their opinion of things and not facts.

          8. Just trust me I am a super empath for a reason.

          9. Twilight says:

            Famous last words the last narc told me was trust me.
            You are delusional, you throw your opinion around as if they are facts with nothing to bring to the table to show.
            Super empath I would debate this as to you seem to throw that around to. “I am a super empath I just know these things.” Lame excuse to cover what you can not back up!
            I respect people’s opinions to things but have little patience with opinions being slung around as facts, it is misleading. Your ignorance is very clear with your false statements. Now if you said these are my opinions I would have more respect for you and your opinions.

          10. I said several times that research is pending. I’m not going to disclose anything before it’s finished, and certainly not on this blog.
            I’m not bringing anything on a narc table.

          11. Twilight says:

            Show me your facts showing HG is a homosexual

          12. Twilight says:

            You have stated HG is homosexual
            You have stated the Dr is Victoria from psychopath free and peace is HG
            You have stated HG goes under other handles here on the blog
            None of these have anything to do with your research
            Please provide your facts to these allegations
            Are these facts or your opinion

        3. I am everything. I am the universe.
          I am empathy. I am trillions upon trillions of mirror neurons that allow me to see the entire universe till the edge of time.

          While you watch Star Wars, I spend time in the center of Milky Way observing stars circling around.
          When you watch your films, favorite shows, on your tv, I spend time at the edges of time.
          This is what empathy allows me to do. This is the power of empathy.

      3. Angelic says:

        emotion detective

        yes, it is emotionally that they absolutely score 0.
        in the seduction stage they appear overwhelmingly emotionally emphatic.
        That was a red flag that i shouldn’t have ignored.
        I guess they cannot hold that position for long if it is not genuine … therefore the beast who is realky controlling them will eventually take over.
        I can see that they cannot do orherwise. So so tragic..
        however the one i know it is so talented, but the beast within him is controlling him..
        maybe an exorcism could get rid of that horrid creature within?
        So tragic.. in my case i’ve witnessed the whole idious transformation.. from a young, shy, intelligent , charming, gifted, pure- looking handsome 19 years old .. morphing into a deceiving , arrogant, idiotical, enraging abusive creature….
        What a shock?
        It is too tragic.
        How could that have happened HG?
        He was young and not a narc yet when i met him.

      4. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

        Emotional detective…

        Please read the research closely. I understand your perspective; however please educate yourself on narcissism and psychopathy.

        Keep in mind HG is a hybrid (narcissitic psychopath). He has a very clear emotional understanding of reality.

        Mid range narcs can hold jobs – they struggle with authority (quietly) and misperceive situations regularly I would say.

        1. Are you jealous? You must be jealous, because you don’t know what you’re talking about.

      5. Narc affair says:

        Narcissists can be exceptionally intelligent but be very childlike in the way they think. My narc is 61 and has a successful career and is intelligent but he is childlike in the way he thinks. In fact when we met he admitted he acted younger than he was and he can be very immature. I love his youthful energy and the way he can have fun but from a relationship standpoint hes emotionally in his 20s. I think he will always be that way having never married or had kids. Hes done things that embarress me for a man his age. It has nothing to do with his IQ bc he is bright and university educated. As far as understanding emotions hes an expert like many narcs but feeling those emotions himself is another story. Reminds me a bit of a gifted autistic person. They can be very bright but in their thought processes very immature. Some people never fully mature. Ive met 2o year olds more mature than my narcissist.

        1. windstorm2 says:

          Hey Narc Affair!
          True, but they may not see this apparent immaturity as a liability. My father used to love to say, “You have to grow old, but you don’t have to grow up.”” I’ve always thought that was a good philosophy and try to apply it to my life when possible. It can add a lot of fun to life.

      6. Narc affair says:

        Windstorm2…i love that motto too but maturity is important as well. You can be young at heart and be mature. Lifes experiences help most to mature but narcissists are emotionally stunted in their childhood and can be childlike in ways. Like how they deal with situations ie. Silent treatments/throwing fits/triangulating. Those behaviors remind me of a child with their parent when they dont get their own way. My narc is like a child tho in many respects in how he thinks but i intellectually hes bright. I do love his youthful energy but thats not the immaturity i was referring to

      7. Shaking my head says:

        It really amazes me how nasty people can get on here. Ive seen a lot of support but i see a lot of out and out rudeness. If you cant be decent than shut your hole. Not everyone will agree with you but if you have any social skills you can allow people to have their own opinion. As far as any “experts” on here take from it what you will. Theres no way to prove anyone is a certified anything. Anyways rant over. If you cant say anything nice then dont say anything at all πŸ™‚

        1. alexis =)~ says:

          I agree w most everything that you say. Though, just like in life, we need to take ownership, yes, even when we decide to be w a N, I digress, saying shut your hole isn’t nice. good day!

        2. NarcAngel says:


          Pretty sure “shut your hole” might fall on some scales of rudeness but it made me laugh all the same. Then you ended with a smiley face. Still laughing. Apparently even you cant piss butterflies and shit rainbows consistently. LOL.

        3. It’s narc in chief who can’t have anyone more brilliant than he is on his blog, so he is attacking me under a few IDs, and his lieutenant Victoria. Apparently his superiority has been threatened.
          Don’t think for a second any of us empaths would post these type of comments. It’s always a narcissist behind personal attacks.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            You really are deluded. I post under my own name and no others. It’s that simple. Perhaps if you considered WHY these readers are taking issue with your comments you would realise it’s to do with you making assertions which are without foundation. That is what they have issue with.

          2. Another personal attack.

          3. HG Tudor says:

            And yours wasn’t?

          4. Are you fueled yet? How is my fuel?
            I hope it’s the most delicious and of highest grade in quality.
            Beware, I’m very sexy.

          5. HG Tudor says:

            If you’d been paying attention you’d realise it’s low in potency because you’re a tertiary source.

          6. Lie. And even if true, you’re missing out. My fuel is so delicious, you would become an empath on it.

          7. HG Tudor says:

            Truth. You’re a tertiary source. A remote stranger. Your fuel is very low grade. See Fuel. See numerous times where I’ve explained this before to people. I’m missing out on nothing whereas you are evidently missing quite a few things.

          8. Lie. You wouldn’t risk your reputation as a wise man on your blog to berate just a tertiary source. Yet you have.

          9. HG Tudor says:

            Truth. I am enhancing my reputation by pointing out your repeated inaccuracies, baseless comments and groundless observations. I do not know you. You are a remote stranger that means you are a tertiary source. I am not berating you. Berate means to scold someone angrily. I am simply pointing out you are wrong. I am simply pointing out what you are. A tertiary source.

            Your comment does not even make sense. You state I would not risk my reputation, but then you state I have done so. So, which is it?

            Perhaps you will care to explain how you are not a tertiary source?

          10. You would have to first either ask NA to apologize for his comments, delete them and then block his account for certain amount of time.
            Then I will care to explain whatever you ask me to.

          11. HG Tudor says:

            Good try. You do not stipulate conditions to me.

            NA is female by the way.

          12. emotion detective says:


          13. NarcAngel says:

            You better pack a lunch if youre waiting for an apology from me. In fact get an I.V because youll starve waiting to your last breath. I will remain standing and on this blog long after you crawl away to peddle your “research” somewhere else, or until the Host indicates he no longer wishes my presence here. You should do research into why you are so unable to accept that there are people who do not share your views that you prefer to display delusionalism in constantly and incorrectly asserting that we are the same person. I am a female who lives in Canada and have no ties to HG Tudor. Take your meds and deal with it.

          14. Twilight says:

            Even a foolish man looks wise when he doesn’t speak

            I am beginning to wonder….wait that’s right you know because your a super empath lolz

          15. Amy S. says:

            Are you for real or just kidding around? Why are you here?

          16. I’ve wondered for a while, which position you are vying for: a butterfly, a crow, or a flying monkey?

          17. Amy S. says:

            I am none of those, sorry to disappoint you. I am only a user who wants to understand narcissists. You are enjoying this ‘fight’ aren’t you? Such an attention seeker you are. Do you even know the rules of a proper discussion?

          18. There’s no such thing as rules of a proper discussion on a narc site. Especially when the host is using his lieutenants and other ids to win it.

          19. HG Tudor says:

            There are no Lieutenants on this site. There are those who disagree with me. There are those who agree with me. There are those who dislike me. There are those who dislike me but appreciate the information and insight I provide. There are those who admire me. There are those who are interested in my own progress. There are those who wish to learn from me and from the experience of others. There are those who wish to share their experiences to help others. There are those who become irritated and angered with the views of others and tell them as such. There are attention seekers who come here. There are occasionally narcissists who come here, although they do not know what they are. It is a broad church of views, people and experiences but none of my Lieutenants are here. That is impossible.

            I have no Lieutenants here. I only post in the comments under my name.
            What you fail to realise is that you keep making comments which you do not provide any support for and which numerous people dislike and they are taking it upon themselves to convey that to you. You, instead of recognising that these people are not only expressing their own views and also because you fail to recognise that what you are doing is irritating people, fall back on accusing me of using additional IDs, accuse other people of being my Lieutenants, fail to provide any supporting evidence of your statements, seek to stipulate conditions before you will attempt to provide an answer, refer to apparent research but then never disclose this apparent research (hiding behind the excuse of not disclosing it here) and other such responses.

            I have little doubt people here recognise all of these responses for what they are.

            I explained to you that you are a remote stranger. Thus you are a tertiary source. This is consistent with the position I have articulated through my book Fuel and throughout my posts and interactions here. I have politely invited you to explain why you are not a tertiary source but you have not been able to do so. Instead you changed tack stipulating conditions. This response is illuminating. It evidences (yet again) you are groundless in an assertion you have made and it also demonstrates a particular type of behaviour.

          20. MLA - Clarece says:

            H.G., that was a very thorough and considerate response covering all the bases. On that high note, I’d walk away.
            Just an observation, but I’ve been so surprised at the number of readers feeling compelled to question or respond to E. D., rather than just skim over or ignore remarks that clearly bring no value to your blog, and ” just seem spiteful. But now I’m guilty of getting sucked in and not skimming over.
            E. D. is winning lots of attention.

          21. HG Tudor says:

            Thank you Clarece.
            You are correct. As ever I have allowed it to highlight another facet of the dynamic and to exhibit certain key points. It is also important to correct inaccuracy.

          22. MLA - Clarece says:

            I get that. You don’t want new readers to think you have “lieutenants” planted to manipulate conversations.
            It’s HG, all day, every day.

          23. HG Tudor says:


          24. NarcAngel says:

            A possible silver lining and overlooked facet of people responding to these types of agitators is that in some cases they may be speaking out or standing up for themselves for the first time. Yes its virtual, but learning to assert yourself and cutting your teeth on a clown is never a bad thing (there is a limit of course). Today a blog agitator, tomorrow maybe standing up or taking action with the Narc in their life. Regrettable that it causes more work on your end to moderate but on the plus side, Empaths are showing they are becoming weaponized with words at the very least and the agitator adds to the blog success with increased stats.

            Look at me being positive. You must be testing some new kind of mind-fuckery on me haha.

          25. Yes. HG. Your response to ED was quite thorough and considerate. Well done

          26. ED.
            Amys question seemed an honest inquiry. Yet your response? Ugh.

          27. Yes, it ‘seemed’ but it wasn’t.

          28. If you would be so obliged to answer please?

          29. I thought I have, I guess I forgot. You see, forgetting is my minds way of protecting against you.
            I forgot what Amy said, who is Amy?

          30. Amy S. says:

            Dear Emotional Deflector,
            It is clear to me that you have some kind of personal vendetta against me. I do not know why you hate me so much but I am not even trying to find out as you are incapable of answering questions. Anyway, I do not care. You are just a really rude, full of yourself attention seeker. You are not a Super Empath. An empath would not act the way you do. Do not try to pretend you are one. Nothing that you have said, so far, shows you are an empathic Individual. Goodbye!

          31. No fuel for you, not a drop.

          32. Oh lawd…. haha…. peace out!

          33. Love says:

            I admit, it is entertaining reading about people thinking they’re fueling you with their super duper fuel. I wrote a song about it:
            Listen up, y’all, ’cause this is it
            The fuel that I’m bangin’ is de-li-cious
            Fuelicious definition make them narcs go loco
            So delicious (It’s hot, hot)
            So delicious (I put them narcs on rock, rock)
            So delicious (They wanna taste of what I got)
            I’m Fuelicious (t-t-t-t-t-tasty, tasty)

            Props to Fergie for writing the original song. ❀

          34. Twilight says:

            Hilarious Love

          35. NarcAngel says:


            Youre more gasbag than fuel.

          36. NarcAngel says:

            Emotional Dick
            Hard as it is for you to grasp, I am not HG. If you could form a rational thought, you would realize he does not have to hide behind other names. This is his blog. He could simply choose not to waste his valuable time by posting your inaccurate and questionable research. Please participate with your personal experiences and OPINIONS, but leave the diagnosis and “research” to the professionals. There are real people here trying to heal and incorrect information can be as damaging as the original cause in some cases.

      8. Shaking my head says:

        Alexis… im sorry if i came off rude but it wasnt aimed at you. I just hate seeing people be nasty on a site thats meant for awareness of narcissism. Most of the commenters are victims of abuse.
        Narc angel glad you liked my smiley πŸ™‚

        1. NarcAngel says:

          Just for shits and giggles, who was your comment aimed at? Behaviour cant be changed unless its identified.

      9. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

        Emotional detective…

        Please consider the way in which you are delivering your messages. They come across as hostile and could be perceived to many as a personal attack which would result in others reacting to you in a negative way.

      10. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

        What is your occupation?

        Research? Who is conducting this research?

      11. Shaking my head says:

        I think HG and emotion detective should kiss and make up. Who cares is theres no stated research for micro neurons if youre that interested research it yourself and HGs sexual preference is his business and shouldnt be presumed or even brought up. Lets get back to some constructive discussion. Lifes too short. Love is the way πŸ€—β€

        1. NarcAngel says:

          I care. There are already too many lies, illusions, and misrepresentations in dealing with the Narcs in our lives, so I dont invite or appreciate this from others. Especially those who claim to be other than, and who instead of being able to exchange opinions and enter into respectable debate, lash out with unfounded declarations when someone has a question or offers an alternative viewpoint. If you have been denied your voice or opinion in dealing with people in your life, you probably dont appreciate being mislead, labelled, and insulted where you come for some information and understanding from others. Opinions are just that and welcomed, but stating things as “research” is misleading and may confuse those who are looking to, or participating in accredited professional help. That is where I see the most danger and why I care.

          I hear you though on getting back to more stimulating and constructive conversation and drowning out the background noise with silence until it fades away.

        2. I don’t want to kiss HG or make out with him. He would be obsessed with me forever, stalking would commence, and he would never let me go.

          1. HG Tudor says:


          2. alexis =)~ says:

            Does ED stand for erectile dysfunction? Kidding.

            I think it’s quite obvious that ED is not serious about learning OR sharing in discussion .
            There’s nothing wrong w disagreeing w HG on any level but it’s obvious ED just wants to fight. You should end his/her time here, it’s beyond toxic.

          3. NarcAngel says:


            One of the things I appreciate about this blog is that it does not censor unecessarily. I believe the 5 rules (whatever they are), are to ensure integrity and safety only and to allow vastly different opinions and approaches. In keeping with that, I think it is more up to the participants to decide the level of interaction with those who are found to be disruptive than have the moderator ban them and be accused of manipulating the discussions. That goes for any blog and not just here. I have attempted to have a rational discussion with the individual and to impart information to correct some false accusations to no avail. At this point I feel nothing but pity for them. It seems due to their limited reasoning abilities, to be turning into a grade 3 and politically incorrect game of POKE THE RETARD.

            I will no longer exchange with them in order to take my responsibility in ending this now tired drama. Im going to get some popcorn and watch them flame out spectacularly.

          4. I have come to appreciate your perspective and enjoy your writings on here NA. You me me laugh. .
            Can i ask why you are here? Without meaning it so bold. It legit seems you have yourself together from whatever narc experiences you suffered from. Do you just like the blog, the group? Obviously you like HG. I’m just curious. I mean you seem pretty post doctorate status…. you know?

          5. NarcAngel says:

            Hi. Seems a simple enough question and yet I find myself surprised by my lack of a simple answer. I ended up here because I was questioning many of my behaviours and all roads lead back to my childhood (or lack thereof) and exposure to the horrible violent Lesser my mother shackled us to. He was what I knew a narcissist to be (the stereotypical loud-mouthed moron) before my education on the different schools/cadres here, so I did not have that label for many of the other narcs i came to know in my life. They did not all act as he did and yet there was a common denominator in the chaos they brought, be it a work, friend, or intimate relationship. Then of course there was my behaviour to decipher. I had read a lot of stuff that bored me to tears (S.V made me want to run to the nearest Narc for a hit of excitement) and used a lot of medical jargon, but one night in frustration I googled I want to speak to or talk with a narcissist. I had questions and wanted them answered at the source. Lots of hits with those search words but eventually I saw Narcsite and Knowing the Narcissist. I read one post and couldnt believe what I was reading. I read all night. Finally answers in my language-pieces to the puzzle. Then the comments. Other people who had experienced these things that I had, but never spoke about with anyone. My mindset (at that time) was that I would allow HG to “hook” me, thinking whatever he was getting out of this was fair enough because I was getting what I wanted also (I now know this is not the case and there is nothing to fear in getting hooked or being here). I didnt expect to interact with either HG or other commenters but now as you witness-you cant shut me up most days. I enjoy humor and am always encouraged when I see that others have not lost theirs or find their way back to it so Im glad if my comments have made you laugh (sometimes even on purpose) Still, I have questioned my continued participation at times. There are those here that are good at comforting and that is not my forte, I am big on taking responsibility for your own role and that does not always sit well with others depending on where they are in their journey. Also to remind people that they have power and not to fear it or give it away but to use it for good to counter all of those who abuse it. My biggest concern however is the effect these toxic relationships have on children and I want to speak for them when I can. That is what changed my life and damaged me in ways I am still trying to understand. And so I continue to come for the education and interaction with both HG (who you correctly point out that I very much accept and greatly appreciate despite my treatment of him on occasion), and with the other participants who I have grown to like and learn from. I came with questions and got answers but I stay because I have more questions and there are so many more answers and successes to witness in this wonderland of interesting personalities.
            Now…………what was your question again?

          6. Thanks NA. Kind of you to give such a thoughtful and thorough answer. And you did not disappoint with your writing style and wit. πŸ˜‰

          7. alexis =)~ says:


            I agree. I just felt that ED went beyond the codes and ethics of this blog, what was laid out for us to follow. For me, this has nothing to do with defending HG, no reason for that, not sure that I can, anyhow. HG can handle it all!!! You disengaging from ED is actually a gift to h/er, you are no longer enabling.
            Thanks again for weighing in.

          8. see, it already started, a comment appears just a few seconds after mine, that’s virtual stalking

    6. abrokenwing says:

      A1 – I thought based on your previous comments that you have some kind of experience in this matter.. being psychologist or counsellor maybe? (In fact I remember NarcAngel and others asking you a questions about it but I don’t think they ever got an answer.)
      Therefore I find this comment coming from you very surprising.. and I can’t agree with you on this one I’m afraid.

    7. Free Bird says:

      Al, I agree that the emotional level of a narcissist is that of a toddler or young child. Intellectually they can function on an adult level, as is evidenced in both HG and Sam Vaknin’s writings. Sam Vaknin has a very good article entitled “The Narcissist as Eternal Child.” Here is the link: Essentially, they act in childish ways, even using baby talk, as they are looking for a mother figure and trying to replace their lost youth.

    8. Twilight says:

      Al, how many have you had contact with? I ask only because I wonder if your view of being intellectually challenged is due to the one you were exposed to was? Or is your anger speaking?
      It is hard to imagine you are saying HG is intellectually challenged, not if you have spent time reading and/or speaking with him here or through a consultation.

    9. Coco says:

      Not all…the narc that I was with for 11 years was a Greater. Highly intelligent, urbane, controlled, very passive aggressive….that is like saying all apples are sweet…

  28. E. B. says:

    A narcissist told me “You always want to know everything!”.

    1. gabbanzobean says:

      Yup!!! Mine said that too. He called me a “savant”. And also worded such in a fancier way saying shit like “if there was another definition of the word ‘literal’ and the innate desire to always have to understand everything right down to the nitty gritty detail it would be personified by you Gabrielle”.

      I love sharing his direct quotes as they’ve provided laughter to some of you in the past. πŸ˜‰

      1. E. B. says:

        Hi Gabrielle,
        Thank you for sharing his ‘quotes’- Ha ha πŸ™‚ Next time someone tells you are savant, you can reply: ‘I know.’ πŸ˜‰

        1. Gabrielle says:

          Hopefully no one ever has to say that to me but God forbid they do I will be ready with a barrage of smart-ass replies along with “I know”. πŸ˜‰

      2. MLA - Clarece says:

        Not only laughter, but also a great point of reference to use in conjunction with H. G.’S advice.

        1. Gabrielle says:

          MLA Clarece,
          I could fill a book with Narc quotes of shit he has said. At the time I seriously thought nothing of this stuff but now I recall everything with an “Aha!” moment. One of my all time hilarious favorite text message exchanges that will forever be burned into my memory comes to mind right now and I shall summarize below for your (and others) amusement:

          Him: “Will you suffer a phone call from me in about 15 minutes?”
          Me: “Suffer? Wow that sounds a bit extreme!”
          Him: “It’s an Elizabethan expression. I like to theatricalize my verbiage”
          Me: “Feel free to theatricalize whatever you would like…”
          Him: “Well thank you my darling girl. I shall do just that!”
          Me: “Okay then…”
          Him: “Well? Do you want to talk to me or not?”
          Me: “You know I want to talk to you. Do you want to talk to me?”
          Him: “Of course I do!”
          Me: “Or are you just projecting your feelings onto me?”
          Him: “Ooooh that is not going to work on me. I am impervious to psychological analysis!”

          Sharing this crap and knowing I am giving some of you a chuckle makes me feel so much better believe it it or not. πŸ™‚

  29. HG, I have a question. At times, not in this blog, I have seen articles that refer to narcs as exhibitionists​. Is that true? The performer I have mentioned appears to not use underwear and the outline of his organ is visible in his tight pants and jeans. He realizes this, right? If so, is it done for getting attention from all the women in his audience? Women outnumber men about 6 to 1. He acts as if appearing such a way is normal but the other singers don’t appear like that.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Yes exhibitionist behaviour of that nature is something that some of our kind engage in.

    2. NarcAngel says:

      Ask him if he has an ulcer. When he asks why, point to it with a completely straight face and say:youre never without a roll of tums in your pocket.

      1. Debbie says:

        Love it NA…

    3. geminimom says:

      predateiknow, he wants to be a rock star. comes with the act. some wear the pants hanging low with boxers showing. it is all an old style. he has no class.

      1. No judgement. I view this as am odd statement.

  30. alexis =)~ says:

    This link isn’t showing up for me. Fyi…

  31. Coco says:

    Oh yes, the begging for closure and the truth provides nothing but blank, innocent stares and vague, avoidance responses.

    1. MLA - Clarece says:

      Ditto for me. But now I understand our interests don’t align to both want closure.

  32. charm2002 says:

    Omg. I have asked a thousand times. “Why did you lie to me?” He will say he is going somewhere and will be back soon. (Lie) He will call later and I will say ‘you’re not coming home are you?’ He will say ‘ yes, I am’ (lie) Then he never comes back. Later he will accuse me of name calling him- saying I called him a liar, which I never did, I said “why did u lie to me?” Which isn’t name calling and we all know it. He says he just can’t be with a name caller like me. That Ive ‘taken something from him that he can’t get back’ and ‘his feelings for me have changed’

    So. Basically. What he’s actually saying is:

    You caught me in my lies, and I don’t like it. I have to find a way to blame you for ruining this relationship because I won’t tolerate accepting responsibility for its demise due to my own behaviour- lies. I have to blame you and make you the bad guy who screwed it all up so I can hate you. I’ll avoid you for a while and ignore you and make you suffer. Then when I runout of fuel, I will comeback, Hoover you, suck you back into my drama, then lie to you more, and you either shut your mouth when I lie to you or I will blame you again for ruining everything with your abusive name calling ways.

    Am I close?

    Sent from my iPad


  33. Indy says:

    Designed by who?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Genetics and upbringing.

      (I have your quiz answers by the way)

      1. Indy says:

        Cool πŸ™‚ Must have been the Peppermint oil that did the trick!

      2. Indy says:

        Oh, I do have a question. Are we allowed to gift a consultation to someone(either via purchase or if won)? I have someone in mind that could really use your help.

        1. HG Tudor says:


  34. 12345 says:

    HG, is this why you won’t tell me where you get your blog photographs?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I’ve already answered that one 12345.

      1. 12345 says:

        I know you’ve posted about it somewhere but you told me a minion brings you a sampling of themπŸ˜‚ No biggie. I can live without knowing.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          That’s correct.

    2. Angelic says:


      A minion bring them to HG?

      Then he must be a gifted clever demon from hell.
      And this is not sarcasm, but the true fact.
      Now i am convinced of a shocking truth.
      Yet, i will still probabily dance with the narcs.
      But for how long?

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