10 Hoover Hurdles
The hoover. It is one of the most discussed periods of the narcissistic entanglement. I am referring to it in the traditional sense, namely the three post-discard/escape hoovers, although as you will be aware from my works, there are other hoovers throughout the interaction between us and you.
There are most likely two reasons for the post discard/escape hoover being a prime topic of discussion. First, by the time you have worked out what you are dealing with you will have already experienced the seduction, devaluation and discard/escape. The post discard/escape hoover is what is occupying you now because it may have happened recently, is ongoing, or you anticipate it happening. The second reason is that the possibility of ongoing interaction with us continues to fascinate you and thus the post discard/escape hoover becomes the focus of much of your attention.
I have explained previously that if the Initial Grand Hoover has taken place and failed (this hoover being caused by your escape) then you will face follow-up hoovers thereafter, of a benign and/or malign nature. Their catalyst is whether you enter our spheres of influence through something you have done (spheres one to five) or the fact you have just entered our mind for some reason (sphere six). If you have entered a sphere of influence, we always consider (though dependent on the nature of your type of narcissist the degree of consideration varies considerably) whether a hoover could be effected. There are certain hurdles which will either prevent that hoover from taking place or reduce the likelihood of it taking place. What are those hurdles?
- Your Whereabouts
If we do not know where to find you so that we can appear face to face and look to garner some excellent Proximate Fuel by turning up at your home, your work or somewhere else you frequent this naturally poses a considerable problem to us. A Greater Narcissist will apply some effort to ascertaining your whereabouts, a Lesser is unlikely to do much at all. Accordingly, as part of building your defences the necessity of changing where you can be physically found not only pays dividends in commencing No Contact but affecting the likelihood of a later hoover.
- Your Accessibility
In a similar vein we need to be able to contact you. If we do not have a physical place to either attend, drive past, leave a note or send a gift, then we will look to access you through electronic means. If we know your telephone number, we are far more likely to hoover or if we have a means of contacting you through an app or on social media. If you have effected a media blackout and managed to sustain it, the prospects of a hoover happening are vastly reduced.
- Gullibility of Friends and Family
We may have a lieutenant in your ranks already. If so, the prospects of being hoovered are increased as we will have them lined-up to leak to us where we can find you and how we can contact you. Even if there is no lieutenant, if there is the prospect for a hoover we (or one of our lieutenants) will approach people in your camp to gather this information. It is often done under a separate auspice – there may be an emergency, some post has arrived we need to pass on, there is something confidential to relay to you – and if your family and friends are trusted with contact information their susceptibility to releasing this information is important. Bear in mind several months may have passed and if a lieutenant approaches your parents or a friend, they may not be alert to the danger. If those who might have your contact information remain impregnable then the hoover prospects are diminished.
- Happy and Contented
If you are demonstrating (to the outside world at least) that you are happy and contented, then this will affect the hoover prospects. Generally speaking we expect you to still be pining for us and miserable. This is regarded as a condition which is fertile ground for a successful hoover. If we are aware that you are moving forward, you rarely mention us, you appear generally happy and content then the Lesser and Mid-Range of our kind will be less likely to attempt a hoover. This is because they may be easily rebuffed and even though you may do so in a pleasant way, the fuel gained will be minimal. You should be aware however that a Greater will regard you as a prospect to break and therefore will not be dissuaded by seeing you happy and content alone.
- A New Interest
If you happen to have moved on to somebody new, which of course is dependent on the passage of time and other factors, then again a Lesser or a Mid-Range is less likely to hoover. The prospect of being rebuffed and thus wounded through criticism will prove too great a risk to them. They will feel criticised already by knowing you are with someone new when you should be holding a torch and pining for them and they are likely to regard the hoover as too risky, with the prospect for no fuel and further wounding. This will not apply to the Greater Narcissist. We are more likely to apply a malign follow-up hoover and lash out at you and your new partner to get a double fuel strike.
- Your Fuel Potential
You will have been an excellent source of fuel at some point, that is why you were chosen and ensnared, but that changed. The reason hoover fuel is so potent is that you will have recovered to some extent from what has happened to you, you will want to see us or be relieved that we have come back for you (not always but often) and most of all the fact that we have abused you and yet we can still entice you either to start the Formal Relationship again or even to provide fuel shows how powerful we are and thus adds to the potency of the fuel. If you are a super empath or a co-dependent you will be a prime prospect for hoovering. However, if we regard you as still badly crippled by what we did to you so that you have been in effect numbed so that your emotional output is muted or deadened, this will affect whether a hoover will take place. In such circumstances a proxy hoover may take place so a lieutenant can scope you out. Or you may (if circumstances allow) receive a paving the way message which is not a hoover in itself but rather a way of seeing how the land lies to then decide whether a hoover attempt should be made.
- Your Knowledge
If we are aware that you know what we are or have information which could be damaging to us in the form of amounting to a serious criticism this will lessen the likelihood of a hoover. Whilst a Lesser has no awareness of what he or she is, if you do know and you keep making mention of it and adapting your behaviour accordingly, he or she will at least sense there is little fuel to be gained and/or the risk of criticism. Similarly, a Mid-Range will realise that there is something “off” with the situation and think very carefully before being exposed to less fuel and/or criticism. The Greater is not concerned by your knowledge of what he is. He will deny it and look to manipulate the situation to his advantage to draw further fuel, but he will be concerned by anything that could cause criticism.
- The Façade
This carefully constructed and maintained device which we use to repeated effect against you is important. Not only do we use it against you but it will be used against other victims and those who help create the façade provide us with fuel. We do not want this to be damaged or fractured in anyway. If we ascertain that there is a risk of this happening if we hoover you (for instance you have damning evidence of our behaviour which could be circulated if we engage with you) then we will not want the façade damaged by such exposure and accordingly the prospect of a hoover happening will be diminished.
- Energy levels
If you enter our sphere of influence when energy levels are lower as a consequence of lower fuel provision, then the hoover may be regarded as not worth the effort. If, however there is easy accessibility and the prospective fuel gain is considered to be significant then even low energy levels would not be a dissuading factor but if there are other factors as above in place which would prove difficult then when we have low energy levels this makes us less inclined to want to perform the hoover. This situation may arise where we are still embedding a new primary source after your escape or we may not have one yet and we are reliant on fuel from secondary sources. If the hoover is perceived as having hurdles and energy levels are low, even though you may have entered a sphere of influence, we may look elsewhere for fuel and not engage in a hoover.
- The Type of Narcissist
The particular type we are has a bearing also. The Lesser will be looking for easy gains, low-hanging fruit and immediate results. The immediacy is important. Lacking the calculation of the Mid-Range and Greater, he will be inclined to hoover if you are in near reach even if there are other sources because he is unable to control his thirst for hoover fuel. He will however risk being rebuffed and this will in turn ignite his fury causing him to lash out at you with potential repercussions. If the Lesser does not see an immediate opportunity he will move on. He is akin to an opportunist burglar. The Mid-Range will put a little more effort and planning in but will be cautious in his approach, mindful of the potential repercussions and therefore a few hurdles will put him off. He may apply a little effort to consideration but it does not take too much to cause him to move on. The Greater will need considerable hurdles to prevent a hoover happening when a sphere of influence has been penetrated. If he knows there is very potent hoover fuel he will apply considerable effort, like a well-planned heist, to get those jewels.
These factors need to be taken in consideration with one another (and more besides) to determine the likelihood or not of a hoover happening once the sphere of influence has been penetrated.
40 thoughts on “10 Hoover Hurdles”
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HG, I keep reading about the hoovers. Has it ever happened that someone hasn’t been hoovered at all? Ever? No Initial Grand Hoover, no Follow-up Hoover, not even a shitty little hand-held hoover? I REALLY think I am one of those but it doesn’t sound like that ever happens? Am I being naive here? I’m just trying to prepare myself properly. For info: I escaped, I have exposed him to some, I have compromising info, he knows that whilst I’m usually a good little empath, there are things that turn me into a vicious animal. He has done those things. I have threatened to contact someone who is likely to have even more compromising info on him, as well as the police. I called him a sociopath on the day of my escape, he knows I know, but I don’t know if he knows. I should also add that I live in another country, so chances we’ll bump into each other are non-existent.
Not sure if guy I was so in love with and so hurt by is a sociopath or a psychopath, although I lean towards his being a psychopath. I realize Sir Tudor is a narcissist sociopath. So while I’ve read Sir Tudor’s works, I realize I’m probably dealing with something different, although much identical due to narcissism. A psychopath on Quora said that when relationship is over for them, they don’t want to see you ever again, hear from you ever again or ever have anything more to do with you. This is how she, being a psychopath, feels when relationship ends. I bet this is exactly how guy I was involved with thinks towards me. Hoovering isn’t even on his radar or ever will be. This settles with me in describing what he will do. I believe he’s done this with past relationships – moves on.
If he did hoover, it would only be if he was desperate, unless he thinks I may be responsible for his arrest (which I am) and is “unsafe” with me. It seems his 3rd wife has left him as she’s now found out he’s a pedophile and has AIDS (he may have been able to have hid that all the years he knew her). He’s monitored as a pedophile so that would mess up their nicely married life, not to mention his having AIDS almost 20 years. She may have been whom he planned to have in his life til the end as she’s 20+ years younger than he, and he was cheating on her for years. He would have loved having a wife and all his young girlfriends. Seems that is all over – she’s gone back to using her maiden name, etc., he’s being monitored by authorities. His world is probably smaller and more restrictive and he may not be able to get new supply and may reach out to former lovers/wives. My guess is he will somehow find new supply. He is the perfect con man although age isn’t doing well for him (downside). He is extremely wiley, clever and smooth.
So, I just learned of a Hoover attempt by proxy from my ex husband. We’ve been divorced for 19 yrs! I blocked him from my social media and he tried to friend through a family member tonight. He’s stalked me off and on since age 16. I used to think, aw he held a candle for me for four years before asking me out at 20….now, I see that as scary. Never been physically violent with me, more verbally manipulating and intimidating and does both benign and malignant Hoovers.. ..more recent ones have been benign. Jesus, one would think he’d get the message I want nothing to do with him. I never thought he was a narcissist before….I thought traits of BPD and NPD possible but not fully. And he is STILL stalking and can’t let go.
A writer who also has site to help Narc victims and was one as well, wrote this. I realize Sir Tudor says Hoover criteria need to be met, but yes, some narcs may never Hoover.
“for those of you who have written me messages expressing how you feel worthless, and doubly rejected because your ex-narcissists hasn’t hoovered you, and you’ve read that ALL narcissists hoover. This is simply not true. All narcissists don’t hoover. But don’t think you’re in the clear just yet, because you haven’t received a hoover. Many people don’t receive hoovers until five, ten, or more years have passed. There are many reasons why your ex hasn’t hoovered you, and none of them have anything to do with your worth. The most important thing to keep in mind is, if they aren’t contacting you, you’re much better off.”
I think psychopath I was involved with discards permanently, and never hoovers, leaving tons of damage, just moving on to many new victims. He has no close friends. Well maybe 1 or 2 in other states, so he just uses new people constantly. Even woman who has his child and grandchildren, he never contacted. Many many since her. I’m very surprised I haven’t heard from him but as he dumped me many times (even in love bombing stage), it’s obvious I wasn’t fuel he wanted and he just wanted to be rid of me, even though I went all out for him. So much other supply out there. He did me huge favor by dumping me, as I would have been with him. I was thinking he’d eventually hoover, but realize he probably won’t. Glad to see another view. Each person, situation somewhat different although they all seem like the same guy. I often think some of you have been with him as it sounds so similar.
Although, I escaped my narc he was embedding someone new while with me. I could read him like no one else and always knew when he was cheating- I allowed him to get away with it, even though it was eating me up. Now, his new object has been living with him for the last 2.5 months. She has no idea he is a huge womanizer. He is still on the good behaviour with her regarding women, but I hear from his housekeepers that he screams and yells at her at home. I still work for him but told him I’ll be quitting. He took it ok, telling me if that’s what I want. He doesn’t seems to hoover me. We see each other every day unless he is traveling, and we talk but it’s all professional but for him complementing me on how I look. I also see his estranged teenage daughter on regular bases- her and I are in good relationship, while he and his ex wife( both narcissists) don’t have much contact with the kid. I always told him if he gets someone living with that would mean to me that he is in a serious relationship and I would move on. I always owned my own house and never lived with him. He knows, I’m pretty strong willed. The questions to you HG: is he not hoovering me because he is afraid of rejection? Or he has more friendly feelings for me and letting me go, to get my life that I deserve, even though he knows He might be loosing a great appliance. Or does it have anything to do with me caring for his daughter even though we are not together anymore for last 5 months. I was his appliance on and off for 15 years. I was always the one leaving and he would always call me and ensnare me back.
Are narcissists capable of realizing that someone is a great friend and because of that will they allow them to move on?
No, we do what matters for us because that is all that matters.
HG you say you don’t think of us unless you are “reminded ” of us somehow, post dis-engage. But isn’t that how all humans operate ? I’m not thinking about him unless something reminds me of him and we all know how you’ve planted lots of reminders! So aren’t we the same ? He used to tell me he was always thinking about me probably more like plotting lol. I always found when I thought/think about him I was thinking about how he was affecting me somehow. I’m just not sure why you and I are different in that aspect? Is it he nature of our thoughts that are different?
Oh gosh I think I just answered my own question sorry I’m using my emotional perspective …this is like learning a foreign language-!! #studentoftudor !
He never loved me it was all an illusion being human makes no difference… we are not the same in any way on the inside. You want fuel we want love. You may protest that it is all in the name of love but it is not.
“If you prick us do we not bleed? ” the answer is no you do not 🙁
IN part yes, but you have a greater need and tendency to reminisce and reflect. I rarely do unless it serves a purpose. Thinking about the past is pointless for the most part.
Lol thank you HG, as cold and harsh as your answer seems it’s probably sound way of dealing with exes overall …why reminisce about the bad, the litigious or the crazy “failed us” exes anyway ? 😉
Spot on. I am cold and harsh, that is my logic, but it is effective.
HG. Reading through some current and past blog entries, quite a few of your readers refer to themselves as your minions. Do they realize what they are referring themselves to or are they unaware of the meaning of the term? Or do they actually do your bidding here in the blog? I have read you have no lieutenants here, But, do you actually have minions?
I have no minions on the blog nor any Lieutenants. I suspect the references made by readers is done tongue in cheek Pamela.
I didn’t think you would have any here , as this is your sole domain.
Okay, makes sense, it was said jokingly.
Noted.
Mr Tudor, what are your thoughts on treating them like you would “normally” as I do with all my friends ,( should we run into them, pretending like nothing ever happened ) ? Warm hello, hug or kiss, long time no see, how have you been, general chit chat, take care, all the best …..
That can all be done so long as it produces fuel.
I thoroughly enjoyed this read HG. Every niggling question answered throughout. It seems that a post-discard hoover is more likely to occur than if it was a post-escape, which makes sense as they were the ones in control.
If the Lesser and the Mid-Range are more prone to give up more easily than the Greater, shouldn’t that mean the Greater ‘cares’ more (for the empath), or is it just the matter of a dented ego on their behalf, and I’m missing the point entirely?
I’m curious to know if a narcissist’s emotional capabilities also vary, depending on which type they are. It’s all so fascinating.
None of the schools of narcissist care.
We give up less easily because of our ego. We want to own you and must make it so, or punish you for your failures.
P.S. I haven’t spoken to him since I came to this website. It’s sad that I’m hoping for a Hoover to happen. I’m really tempted to apply some of the things I read here. I am curious to see how he reacts. I guess the ridiculous part of me just wants some kind of confirmation. Ya know straight from the horses mouth and all.
Maybe there’s only so much we can question.
I like to think of the entanglement as a chemical reaction in the experimental laboratory of life. Good or bad, it’s created a purpose. Conflict can be a good ingredient for creating passion.
There is evidence that it is an actual physical reaction and addiction peptide bonds and such.
Well then. This explains why my hoover is nonexistent. For now anyway. It’s going to happen when I least expect it, isn’t it? Or am I overthinking that too much?
I don’t know if I love his false image or him.
I thought I didn’t really love him but after reading this blog I am not sure anymore. Does it make sense?
To me it doesn’t.
I had given him a lable, a nasty one, and to me things were settled.
Then the curiosity to know, to find out what really happened and here I am obsessing on this site, now I miss him.
Is it love? Is it a curse? Am I carelessly fantasizing?
I am wondering what he’s been up to but I won’t try to find out.
I may have to detoxify, still. I feel him dangerously close and it scares me. I wouldn’t be able to resist.
No impact is still a long way to go for me.
I don’t want to let go of some moments we shared. Was it really all false? I mean all of them? Can’t I keep one or two in my heart?
Love sucks, sometimes.
“I feel him dangerously close and it scares me. I wouldn’t be able to resist.”
Yup!!!! Nail on the head for me. Word for word relatable AF (as fuck)
Agree .. sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night and I feel his presence .. and the WTF happened makes me crawl back to feutus position and wanting to die. Hang in there … it’s a hard and long ride… but eventually we will be finished for good. The N in my case will be extremely surprised since he filps when I ignore his messages for just one hour while he can ignore for weeks… now NC for a few days and the fog is clearing…
summertime and its calm at the moment but when the new supply does not give fuel he’ll be back… I’m on the shelf but he’s tried to take me down a few times, but I simply don’t take shit so he fail every time the “dinner” proposal come
I’m assuming my ex is a greater he follows the criteria for hoovering like one. Number 5 exacted an immediate reaction from him.
Comparing them to a burglar is fascinating, since they do steal our hearts. If the Lesser is an opportunist burglar, and a Greater would carefully plan a jewel heist. – What type of burglar would you compare a Mid-Range to, please?
He would be the Lookout. Wants to be involved but too cowardly to do the real balls-deep work.
That is hilarious 😂 The mid-ranger would be furious to be compared to the lookout.
Yes he would but that is all he is fit for.
I was always telling my mid-ranger to sack-up and grow a pair…he never did.
Ha! Ditto 12345’s comment. JN is too cowardly to go balls deep into anything.
Yup, you described my guy HG, always a coward.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Dear HG, is there any chance, that after years of being cowardly, Mid-Range could change? And after years of “being involved”, could he made a decision and start – for example – healthy relationship with a person, who was waiting for him to change for years? The final question is: if he was aware of his narcissism, is that possible, that he changed himself and eventually really cares for someone?
I’m sorry for so many questions, I’m just starting to proceed through Your books, and honestly – I’m a mess.
Hello Dawn, no and what you are no doubt facing at present are the twin problems of
1. Your emotional thinking swamping your cold, hard logic so that you cannot accept someone behaves in this way; and
2. The manipulation of the Mid Ranger who operates through showing apparent awareness, apparent willingness to change and apparent desire to improve. Note the repeated use of apparent. The Mid Ranger is skilled at inning you by getting you to think he can improve and that is full of mea culpa mea maxima culpa. It is all an act.
I can help hammer this message home for you because I can see precisely where you are at.
Thank You HG. Will I upset You, if I ask You one more question?
The thing is, it really needs some additional information. You see, I am not the person he chose to be with. I was his “best friend” for years, but – as You propably suspect – I was in love with him, and he knew about it. He was keeping me by his side, because there were times, when he claimed to love me back, but “not being ready” (“I’m a broken guy, every girl sooner or later knows, that something’s horribly wrong with me and abandon me or stays and ends with a broken heart. I don’t want this to happen to You, I have to deal with my demons first.”). So, I was waiting (I know, this sounds like a manipulation and “mea culpa” thing for now). He have done many horrible things to me, he was triangulating, gaslighting, giving me a silent treatment, but he was always coming back, always with a good explanation (he is really intelligent) and words “there is no storm, that we wouldn’t defeat together.” But this silent treatments and triangulating was killing me, he knew that. So finally I went no contact. He was trying to talk with me, but I wasn’t responding. So, after months he just wrote to me, that If we can’t start a talk, we are no longer friends, and he dissapeared. I found out, that he had another close friend, a girl, who was waiting for him just like me. They were “just close friends”, he was giving her hope, he was “involved” for two years, but when it was starting to be something more, he took a step backward (exactly as it was with me). They weren’t intimate partners. And now he finally tried to build something with her. He made a decission, that he is ready, and he want to be with her. Thing is, I think, that he had us both as a supplies, but now he finally doesn’t need supply anymore, he need a real connection and he is trying, he takes that risks (he gave up the emergency exit, which he had the longest – me).
Question is: if he cut off “best friend”, his longest supply, to start relationship with someone else and not looking back, is there is a chance, that he really somehow improwed himself? He didn’t have to cut me off, I didn’t know about his plans with that other girl, and – we were only friends for that moment, the situation was clear. I don’t understand, why he disengaged completly with me, but it seems, that he is happy with that girl. And I am strugling, despite the knowledge that I now have (unfortunatelly, I am sure, that he is a narcissist, I was with close friendship with him for years, he had depression, but he was aware, and he was reading about therapy for NPD).
I am sorry for such a long story here, I promise, it is the last one so long here. I just can’t move on without an answer, if he left me and didn’t try to make a relationship with me, because I went NC or because he decided to leave the past and really improve his life with the girl he really loves after all of this. Anyway, I am really greatfull HG, for Your time, talent, sense of humor and Your books. Warmest greetings.
Hello again HG, I wrote a long comment here yesterday, but today (as I had time to think about Your response) I think, that all that story wasn’t necessary. I just thought, that maybe Mid-Range whom I knew was finally able to improve himself, because after years he completly cut off himself from one of his two main supplies, even in situation, when he didn’t have to do that. And he doesn’t want to even remember about me, despite that earlier he was using us both to triangulate for couple of years. I just thought, that maybe he really care about that other person and he was really able to improve (for her, because he finally chose his path). Is that why he doesn’t want to remember me anymore? But I realized, that maybe I shouldn’t ask, because the answer could never be consoling for me? Anyway, I really appreciate Your time and books (I’ve just started, so propably I have long way to go). Hugs to You (if You don’t mind).
Hello Dawn, keep reading that is the way to achieve understanding and then freedom.