Attachment Is The Seat of Misery
This is a capricious, arbitrary and hostile world. It must be brought to heel, tamed and subjected to the exertion of control. My control.
This is why I must cause every appliance that I come across to become attached to me. From my next door neighbour who I say hello to and exchange banal pleasantries with for the sake of my façade (even though I would readily drive a rusty meat hook through his malformed cranium if he tells me again about the refurbishment details of his latest property acquisition) through to my friends who join me for drinks on a Friday evening through to the latest girlfriend that I parade, all of them must be attached to me.
The creation of my construct is the device which causes these individuals to become attached to me. That magnificent edifice which is created from the mirrors which I show towards those whose paths I cross. Make the ticket inspector smile on the train by supporting him dealing with a obstreperous teenage passenger, encourage a friend in his plans to lose weight, show that prospective IPPS her own hopes and desires so she begins to fall in love. All of that is the work of the construct which is designed to draw each and every source – from the tertiary through to the ever-so-crucial Intimate Partner Primary Source – to me and cause them to attach to me.
Whether the barista thinks I am a pleasant and loyal customer, a junior colleague considers me an inspirational boss, the lady I pass every other day whilst out running gives me a smile of acknowledgement and admiration, whether a friend considers me someone he can turn to for advice, whether she falls hopelessly in love with me; there are thousands of different ways for these appliances to attach to me.
It might be a jealous co-worker who seethes at my arrogance, the nervous supplier who dreads my call demanding what is behind his company’s latest cock-up, the weeping cast off who was once the apple of my eye but is now a maggot-infested windfall, all of them remain attached to me.
It is through causing these appliances to be attached to me that I can exert control as I assimilate them into my world. They are mine to control, to utilise, to extract from and through this I can then control my environment. By controlling my environment I aim to minimise the traitorous ambush or the treacherous mutiny. Keeping everything in its place, subject to my control and functioning as I require it, means I drive forward and order is maintained.
Attachment is the key to achieving this. I have to draw you in, hook you, grip you, I have to bond you to me, bind you so you do not escape me, clamp you in place, tie you down and secure the attachment. I will give you the illusion of the golden period, I will lie to you, I will give you generosity, I will show you largesse, I will even exhibit some form of manufactured intimacy, kindness and support, the promise of fuel and the years of practised scrutiny enabling me to give you what you want so I secure your attachment.
Yet for all these fuel pipelines that are connected to me, for all of the bridges that have been built, the links which have been carefully constructed, they are all one-way. It is you being attached to me. I feel no attachment to you.
That is why I am so able to turn on the person that I supposedly love and watch as the tears trickle down the disbelieving face as I lambast her for wearing the wrong shade of red or turning up two minutes late. That is why I can lie between the silken thighs of another and promise her the world whilst you lie awake wondering where I am and praying that I have not been involved in a road accident. That is why I can assure you that you will be promoted by year end and in the next meeting offer it to somebody else instead. That is why I can decide not to turn up to the dinner party you have spent a month planning and go and watch a film elsewhere. That is why I can smash your grandmother’s watch with a ballpein hammer as you observe, in a fit of hysterics.
My lack of attachment allows me to disappoint, renege, cheat, lie, provoke, hurt, torture and abuse. It gives me fluidity, mobility and efficiency. I am not hampered by guilt, nor remorse or a sense of obligation. I form no attachment with you. I do not feel it.
You may ask me what I might think of those who I interact with and I can conjure up the tributes and platitudes in an instant:-
“John? Excellent worker, never lets the company down, a key member of the team.”
“She is a wonderful woman, I do not know what I would do without her. She is my world.”
“He is amazing. First name on the team sheet every week.”
“NarcSide Inc? Fucking brilliant. Use them. I did once. Never gone anywhere else.”
But for all of this I feel nothing by way of attachment. I bolt you on to me, but I will not attach to you. What does attachment bring? Nothing but misery. Look around and you will see the woe and pain that being attached brings for people.
You become attached to a pet dog which will die in 10 years’ time and you cry for the loss of your furry friend. Why? Why attach to something that is only going to leave you?
You are attached to your employer and show loyalty? What for? So they can bend you over and shaft you by making you redundant and show you the door without even a tub of lube to ease the pain of the experience?
You are attached to your house, but you have to sell it, or it burns down, or it is flooded, or someone breaks in and yet more pain is dumped on you.
You are attached to your friend and share everything with that person and then one day he is mowed down by an articulated lorry and is left nothing but a smear on the road. You are distraught, besides yourself with grief because of your attachment.
You attach yourself to a lover, a girlfriend, a husband, a partner only for them to cheat on you, to leave you for someone else, to shuffle off this mortal coil pumped full of morphine or grasping their chest as a heart attack takes them from you. Your world comes crashing in, you are shattered, besides yourself with grief and it is all because of your attachment.
You attach yourself to offspring only for them to disappoint you, leech from you, turn to an unsavoury lifestyle which embarrasses you and dismays you because you are attached to them. Or you are always worrying how they are getting on at school, will they secure that job, pass their driving test, find a good man or woman? Your feelings are put through the mill owing to this attachment.
Oh I know you will tell me that you gain so much from these attachments, love, happiness, support, understanding, companionship, joy, loyalty, a sense of achievement and more besides. I have heard it before, but I see over and over again the misery that always arises from these attachments. It is not worth it.
It is far better to never become attached in the first place. I cannot trust. How can I when I was given a salutary and compelling lesson that if you try to attach all you receive in return is rejection and misery. Better not to bother. Build the wall, dig the moat, put up the barriers, do not allow anybody in and in so doing you prevent these weakening attachments from occurring and you save yourself the inevitable, and it is always inevitable, misery that is waiting around the corner.
Yet for me, I do not even have to contemplate creating that tower or ensuring that the ditch is dug deep. I do not have to roll out the figurative barbed wire and electric fences to keep people out. This is all done for me because I do not know how to connect with someone. I have no idea how it is done.
I can attach them to me. That is easy. I have been doing it for as long as I can remember. A combination of brilliance, charm, magnetism, manipulation and the identification of those from the strong to the weak and back again who are the best for succumbing to being attached to me. I can bring that about through all of the various seduction techniques I have described before.
Yet for all of that power of attraction, which few can resist, from tertiary to secondary to primary source, I do not know how to form an emotional attachment with someone. I may align interests and outcomes and sense a mutuality of purpose but I feel nothing for these appliances. There is no bond. There is nothing attaching me to them. The emptiness within me, the void which I seek to fill with fuel from all those in my fuel matrix pervades my relationship with those in that matrix. I am hollow and that echoes in my relationships with all those around me.
Whatever it is that compels you to feel connected to somebody else, whatever you describe it as and I have heard people do so on many occasions, I remain unable to sense and experience it myself.
There is just nothing there.
Does this trouble me? No. I see the misery that comes with attachment and I see my inability to connect to anybody as an advantage so I am spared what happens to so many others.
The Creature had all of that and it can keep it.
I rose from the seat of misery and I found a new throne.
275 thoughts on “Attachment Is The Seat of Misery”
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Do you feel compassion from the doctors? (Last question, I promise. I know, book!)
From Dr E at times but I’m not falling for that approach.
HG, not all doctors or therapists show “fake compassion”, though I do know what it looks like. (Seen it, experienced it as a client, do not do this) Are you saying that you think they are showing a façade of compassion?
I accept that not all doctors and therapists operate that way. I have heard other people speak highly of the compassion exhibited by their relevant practitioner. I know he is showing a façade of compassion.
I’m sorry he is not being real with you in his compassion.
Appreciated.
Why do you stay with these particular docs if you feel it is a game and not in your best interest? Why not find another that will both satisfy your family and you feel heard and the provider is authentic and rooting for you in the best possible way (for your healing)?
Because it serves my interests to do so. I have alternative input also as I have mentioned before.
You have mentioned before? I must have missed this. Other professionals that you consult with as well?
Correct.
Indy
No one said he didnt like the games.
Yeah, I’m sure, but the games are a waste of money and time and potential healing. But that’s just my view LOL I know he has his own aims.
Indy
Indeed, but I doubt his aims include saving money (I doubt hes paying), time (I doubt its allowed to interfere with plotting and machination hour), or healing (his view is that he dows not require healing).
Your Empath is showing in assuming everyone wants a good outcome lol.
True that NA😂
NA, “plotting and machination hour” lol!😂😂😂
I have followed the threat and don’t understand why both therapist can’t work together to continue working with you. Just curious is Matrinarc running this? Just asking because a therapist’s loyalty is always to her client and no one else. Sorry if this is too personal HG-I am just interested in you.
Thanks for another wonderful article.
And no one said he was looking for healing …
I don’t think one needs true (emotional) empathy to be a good therapist, quite the contrary.
Ava101.
I think it depends on the patient for whether emotional empathy is necessary for good therapy. I require it. As soon as my mental antennae pick up a lack of empathy in any type of doctor, I assume: 1. they are a narc, 2. they don’t care one whit about my wellbeing and 3. they don’t care enough to take the time to listen to me and help me. I feel like a piece of meat, not a person, and that is very off-putting. Especially with a therapist. How can you benefit from therapy if you can’t trust your therapist?
Hi Ava101,
You make an excellent point that the client needs to wish for healing and it’s the clients aim that’s most important. You also make an interesting point that at first when I read it I wanted to debate but indeed some types of therapy do not require any empathy whatsoever. Particularly behavioral therapy when changing the surgeon severe behaviors. However most therapeutic orientations come from a position of empathy and authenticity. Many people are healed by being validated and understood and cared for when they never were about four. However I do want to say you are correct in that in behavioral therapy alone, change can be affected without the presence of empathy. Good point Ava!
The only thing I do take issue with is the statement “quite the contrary”, because emotional empathy does heal as well and oftentimes does. Just not an absolute requirement in all cases.
Indy: and how is someone to feel with me when he or she never felt like I do or has been in the same situation? It is always just getting near and projecting. And that seems counterproductive to me, especially when someone believes he knows but does not. This may result in wrong steps, words or approach. Also a different point of view or looking from outside might be necessary and not getting caught up in the same trance you can watch this here. In my view, this also goes for HG.
I personally hate it when someone thinks he knows.
And a therapist is not a friend, I appreciate it when a friend says, ‘poor dear, you have been through a lot’ and then respects my experience.
Ava,
Whoa, dude. I felt that blast of frustration way over here. Listen, empathy has its place in many cases. I am never a “friend” with my clients. That is actually not appropriate or professional. I’m a very well trained therapist and have boundaries. Don’t forget that sympathy and empathy are two different things. What you are describing is sympathy. That is not the same as empathy. Empathy respects another person’s position and understands it. It is about listening, validating someone’s emotions, being real, etc. etc.I’m wondering if the quality of therapy you have had in the past (had you been to a therapist ever?) was not that great. I’ve had some bad therapists in my past too. It sucks. If you know about the type of therapist I am (I am a DBT therapist), by nature I’m tough and dialectically compassionate and authentic. This is no friendship. However many people that come need validation of their emotions and experiences. Many times people grow up in homes that never had their emotions ever even recognized or validated. However I also kick butt in sessions as well. I call BS in session when I see it. The B in DBT is behavioral, it is hard core hard work–exposure therapies etc. This is all done in a safe environment, one with established trust. This isn’t some “soft” therapy. Ask anyone has gone through DBT. It’s boot camp with compassion, not babying.
It isn’t projecting. DBT therapists actually have their own therapists and consult with teams of other therapists to avoid projection and counter transference. This isn’t some fake BS. This is s type of therapy that is number one in research from keeping people from committing suicide, engaging in self harm and getting into chaotic relationships(Linehan, 1993). Do you think “soft” therapy would stop someone with BPD from jumping? It wouldn’t.
The point I wish to leave you with is that not all therapy or therapists are the same though one of the underlying concepts in most therapy is empathy(not pity or sympathy!!), unconditional regard, non judgemental stance and being radically authentic. One can do all this and be tough and not take shit.
The other side of the coin is, I can truly sense someone’s pain, but I can’t do anything about it and I doubt that HG is being helped by that.
That’s what I mean: you’ve misunderstood me entirely. No frustration. Not at all what I stated. I wasn’t talking about own therapy, maybe you might want to recall what I told you about this before, instead of projecting and interpreting from your own perspective. You see HG’s therapy from your own perspective, too, while he has said again and again and again otherwise.
Wasn’t talking of sympathy. I distinguished between friends and therapists.
Ava,
It is easy to misunderstand intent and tone in written form and so it is likely I have misunderstood you. Now, just to clarify something you said about MY experience, I was not experiencing projection in this conversation, it was defensiveness for my field, as I felt it was being attacked, particularly emotionally empathic therapists. Now, that may be a misunderstanding as well. I am just telling you where my responses came from.
As I noted in a much earlier post, you made some very valid points about some types of therapy not requiring empathy(i.e. behaviorism).
I am well aware you were not talking from your own therapy experience. I was asking if you ever had therapy as that also makes a difference in view of therapists in general. I was trying to understand your perspective from any experiences you may have had. I have had both horrible and great therapists, both using empathy as a tool and behaviorists. I also asked because some people think most therapists act as friends in session, and that is not the case with well trained ones. It is good to distinguish between the too. Just like a parent is not a friend either. Both can still be empathic.
Just for clarity, as I know it can be foggy. How I function here is as a recovering individual from narcissist abuse(multiple times). I do not function as a therapist here nor have any personal interest in doing so, so everyone here sees a side of me that a client would not see. Because I am coincidentally a therapist, many topics on the blog cross over with my experiences and I chime in, it is a fine line. And, I am very open, from a human survivor perspective, not as a therapist.
I have to tread lightly because of that fine line I walk. I know you didn’t ask this question, though I know it can be confusing for some to understand where I am coming from when I do comment.
I hope I clarified my perspective a little bit and thank you Ava for clarifying your view too. It does take multiple views and thinking out of the box. I do respect that view.
HG,
Have you heard of this therapy called “Cold Therapy” being trotted out by Vaknin? Though I do like his conceptualization of NPD as being more trauma based, I have my concerns about the therapy itself and the safety of it. With that said, I do not know enough about it myself and thus I cannot critique it until I know more. Curious on your take on it. And the good doctors, have you asked them about it and their thoughts?
I have other questions about the good docs as well. Have they said anything to you about whether they like you as a person? Do you sense they are routing for you? Do you feel like you have tricked them at times, or consistently? Do you feel concerned about their loyalties (you versus MatriNarc)? (I know, the book, give me a tease please:-)
I have heard about it but know nothing about it.
They say I am extremely likeable (although they have never said ‘I Like you’). Are they rooting for me? No, one is seeking to resolve the issue and the other is seeking to extend it.
I have not tricked them, I have remained ahead because I know their game.
I am confused, are you saying one doctor is seeking to resolve and the other doctor is seeking to extend?
Or are you referring to matrinarc seeking to extend?
The former.
HG the one that wants to resolve things, is it due to they see no end and you are not going to change? The other wants to extend due to they are learning much from you, or possibly the financial aspects of this kind treatment?
No, the one who wants to resolve matters wants to succeed for the sake of assisting me and proving themselves. The other is for financial reasons allied to something else.
Allied to something else?
Correct.
Is this something else part of your grand design?
It has many parts.
Ok, one last one. But not regarding the doctors. This is regarding your view of therapists in general. Do you think we all engage in “game” with our clients? (Based on your comment about the good doctors above and you being “ahead of their game”).
No I do not believe that is done with all therapists as explained in my answer re compassion, I know of many people who consider their therapists as extremely helpful and I have little doubt you are care very much about your clients. I know the situation is different with my good doctors.
Is the one seeking to extend it Dr. O? And do you still feel that she is in love with you per your stating that in one of your books?
No. It is Dr E. Yes she is, but she fights it, I find it amusing.
HG
Haha Dr O fights it. Wish I could see her face when she reads that. Dr E also for that matter.
Narcangel
Yeah, but they’ll probably never see them. Odds are they don’t read all the comments. There’s just too many – it would take too much time. Maybe they have their own minion to filter thru them, but I doubt it.
Windstorm2
Haha, oh I dont know……. If was charged with trying to crack this enigma I’d be pretty heavily invested in finding out what goes on here. Hell, we’re here and keeping up for the most part and nobody’s paying us.
Narcangel,
Yeah, but I’m retired and seem to spend hours everyday here and I still don’t get to every comment! (Yesterday seemed to drag on forever and it wasn’t until this morning I realized why – no comment updates! 😝).
You may be right about one of the good doctors, but I doubt their minions could be trusted to read them all. In my experience people nearly always shirk on what they’re paid to do.
I’m sure many therapists are above board. For me personally, I am wary. When I was 17 or 18 I went to a therapist. I knew something was wrong, but didn’t know what it was (was in the throes of my 2nd narc relationship, family stuff, etc.). I thought therapy could be a good idea. The therapist was normal for a while, then he wanted to know about my sex life – when this had nothing to do with the topic we were discussing, wanted to hug me – and complained that I wasn’t hugging back well enough and “let’s try that again” and even asked me to sit on his lap (I declined).
Kind of soured me on the concept, but I’ve kept an open mind that they obviously aren’t all like that.
SWendy, i’m so sorry you had to face that. Luckily, you were smart and got out.
Um… Ewww! Good intuition!
It was MANY years ago. But yes, Ewww.
This concept of cold therapy is odd – i see where he is going with it; however I’m not sure I agree with it.
how do you recreate certain types of trauma in the therapy session – thats what i wanna know…
Yeah, and it seems unethical/dangerous and he has a sample of just 40 people. I was curious whose work was he building on. I am a trauma informed therapist and this just seems scary. But, I do not know enough abuot the work behind it.
And how he defining progress?
Indy
Have you developed complex ptsd form your ordeal ? I have – wondered how (If u have it) have been working through it.
Hi Doc,
I do though I also have comorbid Major Depressive Disorder (since a youngster) that is in remission. I’ve had multiple narcissists in my life, unknowingly until HG. I’m not sure if it’s an accurate diagnosis though, but I will say a combination of years of therapy (various orientations so I could see what works) and antidepressants had saved me. I had lots of chronic suicidal ideation for years. I used (and still use) DBT skills (yes, I am a DBT counselor too LOL) including daily mindfulness practice and exposure therapy work on triggers. I have a therapist that keeps me accountable. I do body work (massage) too as a lot of what I went through manifests somatically for me. I’ve been thinking about EMDR to further process the effects at a deeper level . I do what I can and made good progress. This place has helped so much too with information, tools and support. How about you? How have you coped with some of the effects of going through this?
Indy…where do I start lmao…
I was diagnosed late in life with ADHD-I but that changed to ADHD-C. I also have Oppositional Defiant Disorder.
I have two amazing parents who are both psychologists. I have a huge support network of friends who range from psychologists, psychiatrists, social workers and prosocial sociopaths. Yes I just said prosocial sociopaths lol.
It has been hard. I cycle from “indifferent” to “I’m okay” to “I fucking hate his life” to “depressed which shortly becomes pissed off again lol”
I kind of implement CBT on myself daily. I have to constantly reframe my thoughts. I would love to say this shit works all the time but it sure as shit doesn’t (for me).
I get strange flashbacks some meaningless moments and have some um…well sexual issues now – I hate being touched because i was constantly pushed, bitched at, whined at, made to feel guilty, or given silent treatment, or had to deal with an outburst of yelling (a day later usually) when I didn’t do certain sexual acts – and treated like an object – so I’m working on that…- um not sure how to get through that. I would be very open to hearing how you work with people who have this kind of sexual um… issue… that is NOT my specialty area. As you know we have to know information about everything in our field but we all have our concentrations/specialties like the MD’s do lol.
I have learned a lot through this entire ordeal. I can say I never imagined I could develop such an …aversion to sex or being touched in this type of manner.
I exhibit a lot of psychological issues in a somatic fashion as well and am all about that massage baby lol!
Seriously…I’m a sucker for a massage lol.
As an ADHD individual. I have come find that I have used relationships…infatuations to get that dopamine high because it is so difficult for me to get it.
I have a lot of concerns with it (cold therapy)
Richard Kuklinski talks about his kids and his wife.
29:30 – Talks about his kids
31:27 – Talks about his wife
32:00 – talks about how his wife and trust
Thank you for sharing Doc. That was very very heavy! I had to forward through his recounts of animal abuse. Interesting how the only pleasure or rush he received was through sex. And how he felt love and hate towards his wife. Its amazing I did not sense a dark aura while watching him. He has a calm energy about him.
“The loneliest person in the world… Time for me to die”. No! This was so sad! And of course, it brings out the nurturing instinct in me. 😥
Love, please think a little bit about what he has done and what he is. His family stayed with him because of fear, not because of love. There are other interviews too. He really knows what he is and what he deserves. He was not lonely! (great lie to get some compassion or maybe he believes that because of his self-pity) The last time he was lonely was in his childhood. Don`t you think his victims felt lonely, when they had to die often because of nothing? Where is your empathy for them? Where is your empathy for his wife and his children? He talked about domestic violence! Love, please wake up!
Thank you Mona. Of course I have empathy for his victims and his family. But they were not being interviewed. So at that moment, I only connected with him. And felt his emptiness. He did not seek pity or compassion. As he said, he could not connect with anyone (making him the perfect killing machine – per the doctor). To go back to your statement about his victims, I actually did think what it would be like if I was the family member of a person he killed. What would I feel being in front of him during the interview. 1st, immense sadness for the loss of my loved one… But 2nd, I would have some comfort knowing he did not obtain pleasure or happiness in killing them. It would tear me apart if my family member was the one whom he made a bet on – who drowned in his own blood. I would not have wanted them to suffer in their death. But I again, how can I hate him when he is as cold as a machine? He feels nothing. Would I hate the car if it was the cause of my family member being in an accident?
As for his family- he expressed that he would do anything for his children. And he had love for his wife. Yet once the curtain of hate/fury fell, no other emotion existed.
Hi love….i did at times sense he was smug but its hard to say. He definitely enjoys intimidating and there was one pt where the psycholigist got him angry and he was trying to intimidate him.
He was calm but you could sense not far under the surface a terrible anger. He comes off as a greater in the way he knows certain aspects of his disorder but a lesser in how impulsive he is to triggers.
His first murder was age 18 and back then he did feel remorse but not long after he no longer felt that way.
He didnt mention if he had physically hit his kids. He said they meant the most to him.
He was monotone but i sensed moments of what seemed smugness or pride over being able to do what he did with no feeling. I could be wrong tho. Interesting story.
😮😮😮…wow ty for sharing! This guy makes tony soprano look like a puddy cat. I do find these documentaries very interesting. Ive not heard of him before. This definitely shows a psychopaths mindset. I was surprised killing gave him no feeling and sex did bc usually its the reverse where killing is the rush or high and the act of sex isnt unless in a brutal way.
The animal abuse i couldnt listen to very upsetting. Scary watching his face as he talks he has zero conscience and is smug about his killings 🙁
Interesting observation Curious. I did not sense a smugness at all. It was as monotone as discussing the weather. No pride or pleasure from the act.
What I found amazing was his sense of calm. Perhaps because he is not burdened with any emotion (love, grief, sorrow, remorse, sadness).
His eyes and aura remind me of an ex narc. I felt I was in his presence as I watched the interview. Yet, my narc received tremendous amount of love and affection growing up. As the doctor stated, environment determines if those psychopathic traits are used for good or bad. Mine became a surgeon (heart surgeon suprisingly) while this one became a killer.
I ditto your reaction to the interview. I did not feel smugness. I felt curiosity from him towards the doctor to try to get some understanding of why he is the way he is. It was quite mesmerizing and horrifying. Sadly, caring and trusting are viewed as weaknesses, yet now he is alone in a cell, locked like a rat in a cage, like the ones he used to torture certain victims. The one bright light for him was his kids and his wife.
Yes Clarece. Mesmerizing and horrifying, exactly!
Hi Love, how ironic.
Fixes the heart of strangers with delicate precision whilst ripping out the heart of those who love him with ferocious precision.
Yes Karen. And is still called a hero when he kills.
Thats seriously the scariest interview ive ever seen. Really sad what he said at the end about being the lonliest person. I can understand why he feels that way not taking away from his many victims. Nature and nurture definitely. So sad. He reminds me a bit of jack nicholson.
I get the feeling watching this man he takes pride in shocking the psychologist and trying to get a reaction from them with the appaling things hes done. The chainsaw talk etc. Almost bordering on humor. Like its a talent what he does. He seems to almost break out in a smile and about to laugh. Pure evil 🙁 fathoms the mind these people are out there walking amongst us. Its an eye opener.
He acknowledged that he thought he must be crazy at one point and yet he found a way to make how he is work for him. He was going to kill and the mob was going to pay. Im sure many that he killed were like him and had done horrible things also. He appeared to have the opinion that he was good at this and it would allow him to provide for his family. All very logical from his view. Interesting that he said after having time to think about it, that he realized his mother was a victim of her own life. She had been mean to him as was his father, but he didnt appear to have the same sentiment for his father.
Several times I saw my stepnarc in him. When he spoke of eating pizza while dismembering a body I remembered SN relating to being at an accident sight as a young man and eating a cookie. A woman asked him how could he eat while looking at the blood etc. He said he couldnt believe how stupid she was. Why would he waste a cookie over something he could do nothing about? How would not enjoying his cookie help them? He got more angry as he recalled her having the nerve to address him. Also the way Kuklinski moved his jaw unnecessarily and his face when he addressed the doctor about feeling angry towards him. SN woukd have that tight grin and simmering fury just underneath the surface right before all hell would break loose. It was like looking at SN again, and I thought: You useless piece of shit. We suffered for nothing, at least Kuklinski found a way to direct it elsewhere and get paid.
Boo Boo is right. Spooky connections exist everywhere. That’s life. Perhaps intention defines the condition of the cat when we open the box?
It was very interesting to read other people’s questions and your answers so far.
I would like to know if I have understood this correctly, why narcissists feel anger, upset or disappointment when people or pets pass away or move away (instead of feeling deep sadness and grief like I do).
I understand that the word “attachment” in your article is used as in human bonding or having a close relationship with someone. If narcissists see other people as fuel appliances, attachment is not possible.
Your kind feel *anger*, *irritation*, *disappointment* (but never sadness and grief) when someone considered an important source of fuel like a PS passes away or moves away from you, while those same feelings are not so strong with SSs who supply less fuel and can be replaced more easily than PSs.
Even if you achieved to build some sort of human bond, you would not be able to feel emotions like *deep sadness* or *grief* since these ones are buried deep inside of you as a self-defence mechanism, thus unreachable.
PS, A yogi once told me something I never forgot: Hate binds the hater to the person they hate. That rings true for me. What do you think?
Boo Boo told me that you are bound to us, which is our intention.
Great article. I’d point out, however, with all due respect, that you are attached. To not only obtaining fuel but to your projected image, your power, control and sense of being superior. When loss occurs in these areas, you seem to have nothing to fall back on but fury and revenge. To seek revenge also points to some kind of attachment. Indifference seems to me true detachment. Yet, they say even Buddha cried upon hearing of his mother’s death.
Some of us will always tear up no matter who or what. Because we are attached to all life. Even for someone cold and cruel.
HG!
Very emotional article..I have some questions to you:
1. How can you state that attachement leads always to misery? It feels that your statement is based solely on your FEAR of getting attached! As far as I know..you have said that you never have trusted anyone before! So how can you know that if you trust someone will that automatically lead to disappointment and misery?
2.Is attachement the same to you as “connection”? Do you feel ANY connection to people? If that is the case: what sort of connection do you feel?
1. I can state it SuperXena because I have seen many,many attachments and they always lead to misery. I gave examples in the article.
2. I attach people to me, so there is a connection in that respect, I feel no emotional attachment or connection to anybody.
Thank you for your answer HG.
I understand your perspective…and I know you gave examples on your article…but my point was exactly that you have seen that attachement leads to misery..but YOU have NOT experienced it yourself since you have not trusted anyone in your life…it feels like you are making an assumption based on the fear of trusting…that was my point..
This is well written as usual HG.
Could also lack of attachment find its equal with lack of conscience? That’s why you can do (or not do) things–because you lack conscience.
Also: Does this not also stem from childhood trauma most N’s have received early on? Such as you with your mother and so on?
Thank you Sailaway.
1. I find I am actually able to do more because of my lack of conscience.
2. I think it is linked to not being shown how to connect emotionally with anybody and the trauma ‘killed off’ any potential to do this. Or perhaps it was never there in the first place and I would have been like this irrespective.
“I think it is linked to not being shown how to connect emotionally with anybody and the trauma ‘killed off’ any potential to do this.”
I think this is what happened to my ex as well. I believe his mother never emotionally bonded with him, then he faced 3 yrs of childhood sexual abuse. So sad 😢
One thing is very true HG
Obsessive attachment to anything it is insanely dangerous.
I should know it, because i am extremily and obsessively prone to attachment.
But i have learned a lot to not let it rule my emotions to the point of total wretchedness .. no sir..
i have learn that.
I can come to a point when something “switch” so suddenly from strong attachment to total detachment..
It is nothing to do with me deciding..
no.. it happens as if some ” unknown” hands press a switch .. and voila’
detachment sets in..
so weird …
anyone ever experienced this?
Hi Angelic,
Although I do not experience this like this, I have talked with several people that share this, those that I have worked with. You describe the experience quite well. It is sort of like the preoccupied though anxious type of attachments…in all or all out. No gray.
I will say, when I hit a line or a limit, I am done too. I still have left over feelings, but I have a tiny kill switch too. LOL….it is like self preservation in a way. I have to watch it, for me, though as I worry if my attachment issues will get in the way if I kill too soon. I used to be a little too fast attaching when younger. Thus, my dance with the narcissist over the years. I sometimes think my meeting them have served a purpose for me. To realized my attachment style was not exactly healthy either and to put a spotlight on it. I have grown a lot from it. I have more boundaries now and my attachment has to be earned, no more accepting marriage proposals at three months in. LOL
Thank you Indy for sharing..
Ultimately yes, there is a precise purpose in learning deeper realities being involved with narcissists… and i hope with all my heart that they will learn too from one of us..
Because i believe that among all their sources there might be one special who can help them… i believe it because that makes sense for all our lives…. being a work in progress …
Oh Angelic I have heard about those switches all my life (regarding several people, narcissists and not-narcissists), and I so wish I had one too! (doesn’t need to be a whole switch, even a quarter of a switch will do..).
narseeker
But now that i wish that switch desperately … seems to have departed..
but as i said.. it is not something that we ” switch” on and off…
😢
a dimmer switch even….
I get like this as well.
I have to be betrayed or wronged in some way…and then its as if the person is a stranger
After some time fades (usually not long) it is as if I have relationship amnesia as well.
Dr Q
Can you expand more in the anmnesia? This is common as many find themselves with another narc. In some cases another and another……..
Dr HQ, for me it is the same experience. I think this is because they really are a stranger. When they betray and hurt me in a way I wouldn’t expect, that’s when suddenly it becomes clear to me that they are not the person I thought they were. They are someone else entirely.
I don’t mean little things anyone might do, but the sort of things a person who loved me would never do and not be sorry for. It is like flipping a switch, when suddenly I realize they are really a stranger.
NarcAngel & Windstorm,
Something happens at the end of my relationships…I get tired of their pretensious bullshit and being disappointed that the things I knew all along and said to my friends, family etc. really hit me smack in the face more. I didn’t even get the luxury of true denial – it was Like i was tying to be in denial lol
It’s kinda like – You hear these sayings as a child that you intellectually understand but when you experience it… the words have an emotional impact giving it a whole deeper meaning. Think of the saying wherever you go there you are. You understand it intellectually but when you experience it ( for example college going some place far away from home thinking ur life will be different) you’re like wowwwww wherever you go thereeee youuuuu are…
The words and observations hit me harder in the face…they become a part of me when they were previously outside of me….I had more evidence to support my thoughts theories and interpretations of events…
I then become detached and even when they touch me it doesn’t feel the same it’s strange. I’m sure a lot of it has to do with what windstorm said too.
After the relationship (all of mine) I forget what it’s like to be with this person to be close to them it’s like they look like a familiar face….
Sure I have memories but I feel detached from them in a way…
Sometimes I find myself wondering did the behaviors get worse or did I just get sick of it? The truth is … it was both. That also contributes to the detachment.
It’s a very strange and complex thing that happens…
This what happens during the mid-way point of my relationships LMAO
This is what happens after….
Victoria thank you for asking that question. I wondered that too.
so some of us do not find fulfillment in emotional/intimate attachments…. for various reasons and thats ok…
Hi HG,
Do you still require the same amount of fuel that you did prior to meetings with the good doctors? Now that you are aware of the dynamics behind the fuel has acquiring it become different for you?
Wonderful article! As always, thank you!
Yes I do.
HG
For some unexplainable reason i feel ” fueled” by your saying :
” Yes I do”
Why i feel that?
What do you understand by fuelled with reference to yourself.
HG
Because after reading it i swore i felt deeply and precisely what you meant in regard of fuel…
not only mentally and subconsciously…
but also physically as a “satisfying warm perception inside”.. all 3 at once.
Tha is the best i can explain it.
HG, I refer to your comment about the dead dog.
I do not know why nobody explained it. It is quite normal to be angry and to accuse a dead person, when he /she/it left you by death. It is one part of the sorrow. I was angry, when my father died and a friend of mine was so angry about her husband who committed suicide and let her alone. It is normal, but it is a social tabu, about which no one talks easily. It does not fit to the imagination of sorrow. Instead of that imagination it is even necessary for some people to be angry, because otherwise you are not able to go any further. People need that cut to distance themselves and to part from the other human being. It does not happen to all people, but to many, many normal people. My friend told me about her anger, because she trusted me. She felt ashamed, because she felt that way. She is a normal, empathic person and she loved her husband for more than 26 years. After that anger, which can be very intensive, normally comes sadness. I believe, you stunned that process, because there was too much sadness before. But nevertheless anger is one of the necessary emotions after a death of someone you liked or loved. Ask Indy, I hope, she will tell you.
Noted Mona, but as I have explained I am irritated or disappointed by the loss of the fuel appliance.
Yes, because your emotional development stopped long before (only opinion). I do not know, but I think, if you were a “naturally” born psychopathic narcissist, there would be no creature at all. The creature is what does not fit into your concept.
Yes, that inner conflict constantly fighting the Creature. A natural born Psychopath has absolutely no sense of right or wrong, only immediate gratification for their impulses.
https://youtu.be/MdmXf0UIAmA
Thank you HG for this profound work. I find the information and the description invaluable, and at the same time I’m perplexed by your powers of self awareness. To me (as I have tried since childhood to understand myself, others and to dwell deep into the “knowing thyself” mechanisms) it seems like you’ve achieved an unreachable (for me) level of self understanding, and I’d really like to ask, and I asked this question before, are there any open questions, unknown territories in your psyche that you still feel the need to understand and explore?
Thank you.
Yes there is and there are some questions which I have answered and will be conveying to you as I move towards these other as yet unanswered questions.
Excellent question Narseeker and very interesting answer HG.
I look forward to hearing more.
Thank you HG, very much looking forward to reading and thinking about your insights.
Thank you.
Wow, this really touched me HG-every word! You’re right, attachments hurt and many times I wish I did not feel as much as I do. It would be a lot easier to feel detached; just like you I cannot help it it is how I was made. Just for one day, I would like to be detached and not feel that connection with others. Only for one day.
This is what her behavior communicated – that she feels no attachment – so it’s nice to see the words that she’d never say for fear of tarnishing her faux benevolent-and-caring false self. She just doesn’t feel it. She worked tirelessly to get me to feel it of course, but she never did, not for a second.
But, wow, you really don’t even know how to form an emotional attachment – it really made me pause. Something which happens rather organically in the rest of us – a natural kind of warmth developing with another person that you have a kinship with – you simply don’t even know how to make happen even if you tried. It actually makes me very very sad. Those genuine emotional connections are one of the best parts of being alive. In fact, they’re my reason for waking up every day. Without them, what’s the point? Money, winning, sex — they don’t provide even a half of the satisfaction to be gleaned from emotional connections. But you don’t know, can’t ever know that, so it’s probably best that you just focus on how emotional attachment causes pain in us and yay you never have to experience that.
Your disorder is deeply cruel to you in addition to being horribly cruel to us. I don’t know how I’d be able to wake up every morning and function if I were that empty inside.
High Octane Fuel
But isnt that because you have felt it and would know the difference? If someone has never felt attachment they would be able to function just fine because they would not feel empty. Its their normal.
NarcAngel
You’re absolutely right, it’s just their normal. They really are like a separate species. I just wish narcs would be real with me from the start that this is how they operate. I wouldn’t run away, if they just showed themselves to be real at the start. I would be on my guard, yes, but I could show them genuine acceptance for who they really are. I just want peace with them, to understand, but not to be hurt by them. My recent narc has fabulous qualities but I can’t ever have her in my life again since she will always try to abuse & manipulate me. That makes me sad, even if she does just view me as identity-less supply. I know she’s self-aware underneath all that ridiculousness and part of her does want to understand why she is the way she is. I would love to talk with her about it because I think it would be profound for us both. But that’s just my own natural desire to want to love, heal, understand and forge an emotional connection with someone…. someone who not only doesn’t want one but can’t even understand how to have one even if she tried. The Narc and Empath can simply never have a healthy relationship, no matter how I look at it. It will only result in abuse due to this disorder which brings us right back to NC as being the only answer for us empaths.
Exactly, NarcAngel! We can’t miss what we’ve never experienced. I’ve never been at ease around people and have a very hard time interacting with others. When I read Highoctanefuel’s comment, I understood the words, but they have no meaning for me. I have no frame of reference. I do have many emotional connections that bring me much joy – just not with people.
Windstorm2
I have been trying since you wrote this post to see if I can remember feeling joy. I cannot.
Too true. We tend to think what’s normal for us is normal for everybody. My first thought on hearing that you don’t feel joy was that is very sad, but then my next was that I bet you do. Maybe you just don’t call it joy. There are many types and levels of joy just like there are many types and levels of sadness.
I think I’m still able to feel joy because I’ve spent the last 26 years surrounded by 11-14 year olds. My empathy with them experiencing their joy has kept my heart open to experiencing the joy around me.
This last Christmas my two year old grandson saw a big-eyed stuffed reindeer toy and he just transformed before my eyes! He was practically incandescent with joy! As I watched this and how he hugged this ugly reindeer to his chest like it was the most precious object in the universe, I couldn’t remember ever feeling that full of joy and happiness. It was bittersweet for me – loss for me that I couldnt remember feeling like that and worry for him that life would rob him of being able to feel that complete bliss.
Windstorm2
I cant remember the last time I even felt really happy much less joy. Im not sad about that, I just feel a lot of indifference, or anger. I would say that I feel things can be pleasant and credit humour (giving and receiving). with keeping me from always being dark. But joy? No.
Narcangel
Well you certainly cause happiness and joy with the humor in your comments. You crack me up all the time! It makes me laugh every time I visualize my mental narcangel avatar in “resting bitch face!”
You probably would have little truck with my crazy energy/spiritual/psychic ideas and practices, but thankfully other people’s opinions has very little effect on my reality. I’m going to focus on sending you positive energy and joy. Lucky for me I can pull joy right out of the air around me at any given time and transmit the energy out. As one of my best friends says, “good vibes are always welcome.”
I know your in Canada but don’t remember which part. I’ll focus on your distinctive personality and the bond I feel for you from your many comments I’ve read, enjoyed and empathized with. You may never actually feel joy, but you’ve got a crazy friend in KY trying to think it at you! 😜
NA, i also feel sad that you don’t feel joy. 😔
I had the same reaction. What is the point of anything if you can never experience that true bonding with someone else? It’s like going through life thinking the world was flat. Then Columbus came along and whoaaaa… the earth is round and there is a whole new world and dimension to explore.
But you think like this because your perspective is different. From ours we ask “what is the point of condemning yourself to inevitable misery for some ephemeral happiness. Why be beholden in this way when you can be the doer?”
Point of order – Pythagoras theorised that the earth was round, Hellenic astronomers determined it was a physical reality and Magellan a practical reality.
Oh Pish! You’re just showing off now. lol
You know what I meant.
Back to the round and round debate of different perspectives. Ok, I’ll take a turn.
So, yes, after hearing your perspective, I can be open-minded enough to acknowledge that your view is that any attachment brings about pain and misery ultimately. So why bother?
Aren’t you supposed to be open minded as well to transcending above that sentiment, that maybe not, if so many people are able to successfully have happy attachments, really and truly?
I am open minded but as ever I evaluate the impact and advantages to be obtained.
Fiiiinnnneeee!
When i first met my ex, i was becoming attached to him fast. I didn’t like that feeling of dependency, so i asked him to block me. He said ‘i can never block you.’
Fast forward 8 mos- i asked him if he’s attached to me, and he replied ‘honestly, no.’
I suffered a panic attack when i heard that because we had already been intimate numerous times, and he used to tell me that he loves me more than i love him.
I could not understand how he can say he loves me but not be attached to me. It was the first big red flag.
I do enjoy your work as it is the ugly closure that many of us don’t get. I feel with each post or video I understand that I was just a casualty of the inevitable. I told the ex narc at the beginning of our entanglement that he would be deleted completely from my life once if it didn’t work out. He accused me of being cold but I have a sense of pride as I was able to discard, expose, and go no contact (twice)as he would’ve eventually done to me. He enjoyed breaking women and relishing in the heartbreak of those before me…I felt I was able to beat him to the punch. If you can’t beat them, join them lol
@Natalie…. this resonates, as I was told by a lesser, that I am like a horse that can’t be broken, lol…. Little did he know, I was “broke”, at a VERY young age. I grew and as an adult, I lived by “what doesn’t break you, makes you stronger”… that and lots of self imposed isolation works for me (and HG of course)
no expectations/no disappointments;
attachment is root of and cause of all suffering.
it is way for many of us, not just “your kind”
it is coping mechanism and form of survival
I do understand and live this as well….
Good morning Ms Brown.
I’m glad I’m not the only one.
After my first narc (my son’s father) I put myself in that cocoon and stayed there for 6 years letting no one in. I lived quite happily.
Then I took a chance on the ex husband. BIG mistake. Never to be repeated.
I’m back in my cocoon now. It’s safe here. I have my very small circle of family and friends and other than that no one gets in. And no one will get in.
I looked this up. Apparently I have schizoid personality disorder (only by my own diagnosis) I can live with that. They call it a personality disorder, I call it survival mode.
I like my bubble. My bubble makes sure I don’t open myself up to unecessary pain. I’m happy there. I don’t feel like I’m missing out. To the contrary, my life is small but full and safe.
Hi KCN…..I want to say I’m sorry that you had to construct a bubble to retreat into, because it’s horrible you had the experiences that made it necessary. But, and I gather from lots I’ve read here including to quote you “I’m happy there. I don’t feel like I’m missing out.”, that you don’t need anyone to worry about you and there’s no need to feel you should be any other way.
Could it be seen as just another part of our story? And however the aftermath manifests is just fine – as long as we are content with it and, crucially, it does no one else any harm?
Hi VFH, I believe so yes. ‘Do as ye will and harm none’ (pagan I believe?) Is a good way to live and it’s also a good way to keep judgement of others in perspective which I have been guilty of in the past.
I started thinking about when I shut people in general out, not just men, and I realised last night that that occured when my ex best friend hurt me. She was a narc too but it’s only recently I’ve come to realise that. Yes that’s when my wall started construction. And honestly, the years I spent on my own were contented years. Normal daily stresses of life aside, I was happy. I wasn’t vulnerable to outside influences. I depended upon myself only to make me happy.
And now I’m on my own again and back in my cocoon it feels good. Feels familiar and ‘snuggly’ like wrapping yourself in a blanket on a cold day.
I still have my small circle around me and that’s more than enough to keep me contented. 😊
I prefer get the bastards before they get you, KCN.
You’re really appealing to my sense of humour tonight HG.
You’ve made me laugh out loud a lot this evening.
I hate that…..
😊
Pleasure.
You know what HG, I’m feeling that.
I’ve been watching a drama based on fact about a sex grooming case in the Manchester area a few years ago. The abused girls were targeted by their abusers based on their personal situation, the girls brought the abuse to the authorities attention, they weren’t believed. Eventually enough noise was made and the police sat up and listened. But it took years.
Familiar much?
So here we sit. Being mindful. Being philosophical. Learning. Using tools to ‘deal’ with our abusers. But we’re always on the back foot (unless you’re amongst the smaller percentage of empaths who deliberately and patiently make themselves so undesirable the narc leaves of his own accord. )
It’s not on though is it? Keeping under the radar, batting away the hoovers and “hoping” the abuser stays gone. There’s small ripples of change already happening but….
but….HG do you believe that it really is more sensible to be reactive rather than proactive in dealing with narcissism, more specifically psychopaths? (i do have a block in saying Greater sometimes because it’s so not Great.) Should we just aim to slip off their radar? Or should they be held to account? It would be a road filled with mines I get that. Your opinion please.
Could society reach a point where there’s a blueprint for what authorities look for in cases of abuse? Especially where those poking heads above parapets are being labelled as the crazy ones?
It’s a vast and grey area but for now, solicitors even advise against using the term narcissist and to focus on evidence of abusive behaviour only (that you’ve been documenting of course) otherwise you might be seen as delusional? Evidence? Oh yes that my word against his thing. Exactly. Whilst the narc over there and his narc defence look like shining examples of society? With just the right thing to say about everything. All. The. Time. So the judge orders the narc’s children to have equal time under that parent’s “care” because it’s so important for a child to have both parents in their lives??
I’m not saying that focusing the authorities on abusive behaviour isn’t right, of course it is, but so much of the onus is on the abused to prove it when they’re most likely in no fit state to even walk in a straight line. Let alone make a third party see the sense of what they’ve been through.
I remember sitting across the table from my solicitor a few months in from final discard. She is a lovely genuine (and sadly expensive) woman. Half way through me trying to tell a logical version of events she sat back and said do you know, I think my sister is married to a narcissist! What I’d been explaining was what her sister had been telling her, but none of the family clocked it. By the end of the appointment I could barely sit up in my seat I had no energy, couldn’t speak, just wanted to curl up in a ball and shut everything out.
For me, this is the essence of why slipping away under the radar and instigating/maintaining NC is so appealing.
But is it OK?
Karen CN
Nice way to view it. Not missing out on much but fulfilled by less, if Im reading you correctly. Thank you for that.
@Karen…I like the way you manage yourself! I found my cocoon when I was 3 years old. Its how I cope and feel safe just like you. I can count on 1 hand who gets “in”… Personality diagnosis are over rated. I have learned a lot here from HG about myself and others. I hope you stay too. Anything you can take away from him is empowering! Stay safe & warm!
Thank you Ms Brown. I was sorry to read that you built your wall at such a young age. That’s very sad and it makes me want to hug the 3 year old you and take care of you. Seriously.
As for me, yes I like my cocoon. I decided after narc #1 that I would never depend/rely/need another man again in my life. I stick by that and did 6 years on my own building my own foundation and learning to enjoy my own company. When I took the risk in narc#2 I still stuck to bring independent. If you had to ask him now what the worst thing I ever said to him was he would, without hesitation, tell you it was when I used to say to him that I wanted him but I’d never need him. I only ever said that in retaliation to him telling me how much I needed him. He despised the fact that I didn’t need him. Now I know why of course.
Yes we’re safe here aren’t we Ms Brown. Hurting no one and just doing our own thing 😊
But if you’re not a Narc, it goes against your very nature. Being unattached *is* their very nature. You’re trying to fit a square peg into a round hole by being unattached in the same way a Narc does when they pretend to be “in love” with us.
I appreciate your perspective, High Octane Fuel! However, it’s how I cope…
Two questions came to mind.
“The Creature had all of that and it can keep it”
So you remember having an attachment at one time?
“There is just nothing there”
If that is your normal, what caused you to know this void must be filled?
I was referring to misery.
Because of the change in feeling owing to the responses of others around me, to me.
HG
Yes, I understood misery in relation to attachment, so wondered if you could remember an incident or time that caused you to form the opinion that attachment was best left to Creature.
Thank you for your reply. I know to await the book for further reveal.
I am trying to understand Narc Angels questions about the void- what do you mean by this: “change in feeling owing to the responses of others around me, to me.” Just trying to understand this part because I have always wondered how you know.
HG could you please elaborate a bit? I really appreciate it.
You did refer a long time ago to having an attachment as a child to someone who was taken away from you. Then you were ultimately blamed for it as well. Do you remember what that even felt like when you got to be with the person who was kind to you?
I can recall the events Clarece but the feelings that might have been there (I do not even know if they were) I cannot recall anything. I can remember the words said, I can remember the events and the activities but nothing of the feelings.
I’m sad that you experienced this HG. Reading your reply to Clarece made my heart break a little for you. I’m sorry you experienced something so painful that it resulted in that for you.
But…maybe that was the plan for you all along and this is your destiny. I don’t mean that in any superficial way at all either. I can’t find better words right now sorry.
An interesting point re your memory (a couple of replies below).
I’m interested because Ns seem to have an amazing memory for episodic events yet remembering such events is usually a job of the amygdala (I think) it’s been a while so I stand to be corrected. But emotions in fact help us remember and are the driving force. Yet Ns seem to have a far superior memory to the average person.
“It is far better to never become attached in the first place. I cannot trust. How can I when I was given a salutary and compelling lesson that if you try to attach all you receive in return is rejection and misery. Better not to bother. Build the wall, dig the moat, put up the barriers, do not allow anybody in and in so doing you prevent these weakening attachments from occurring and you save yourself the inevitable, and it is always inevitable, misery that is waiting around the corner.” HG, I can truly relate to this. Thank you for sharing
This is a vulnerable and embarrassing confession….everything in me wants to fix you HG. It will be my eternal crutch. Thinking I can fix the men who don’t want my help and don’t want to be fixed. Thinking I actually have the power to fix and show them the way. That’s delusional but I know I do that. I read these posts and believe I am no healthier than a narcissist. It’s just a different illness. I don’t feel superior to my ex narc. I’m just the opposite extreme. And narcs don’t ever say “I feel”. I’m envious of that. Not feeling. One too many glasses of wine tonight.
ha ha! Relax and enjoy your wine 🙂
Oh! and I wasn’t laughing at your confession. One of our eternal afflictions is that we want to help and fix them (and we desperately want to comfort the mistreated little boy they once were and “make it all better”). I laughed because it can be dangerous to enjoy a few glasses of wine and post on narcsite. 🙂
Exactly strongerwendy! Friends don’t let friends drink and post😂
12345… If you could challenge yourself to change your mind set from “wanting to fix” to “wanting to understand”, you will seize the power and all else will follow.
I dare say HG would agree…
I like your comment 12345, I have secretly felt the same way at times…( yes it is embarrassing to admit, even to myself)
But do you really feel that having these feelings makes you no healthier than a narcissist? I’d like to think acknowledging your true feelings, no matter how dark or vulnerable is much healthier than burying them or faking until you feel ” nothing”.
Maybe it wasn’t that you felt that you had the “power” to Change them, but more so… the desire to help and heal an individual that you knew instinctively ( because of your wide range of empathetic qualities) was , underneath all the layers, severely hurting and emotionally damaged. Just my musings and mutterings…. be kind to yourself.
Star
That was not just a muttering. It was insightful and kind.
Good question Star. I think the narc damages the people he is involved with and I think I damage myself by being involved with them so I guess it’s a great team in that way. If staying with the narc hadn’t been serving me in some way then I wouldn’t have stayed until discard. Anyway, that’s what I’ve learned about myself so far. Some of my desire to “fix” is driven by my ego, too. Then I can say to myself, look 12345, your brand of love was so special that you tamed a dragon that no one else could. That’s not love. That’s looking to a dragon to establish my worth. My head hurts this morning. DON’T DRINK AND POST!!! That’s the best advice I can give today😉
12345
Good point that if it wasnt serving you in some way……a lot of people fight this concept and come up with a million reasons they did not or could not leave. I think its when they can acknowledge their part in it that healing begins. Also about what youve learned-I can relate to that. I appreciate your being so open and honest.
I hope you don’t mind me responding. For once in my life I am being completely selfish and giving myself the love, attention and gifts I once gave to everyone else….It is a great feeling! I hope you get to a point that you are able to stop attempting to fix people who enjoy being broken. You deserve all the love you are trying to give everyone else. Hugs!
HG I have mixed feelings about what you have written. I’ve never been attached to anyone. I had so many different people in and out of my life from childhood and watched my Narc parents not attach I think that this is how I then conceptualized attachments. My abandonment by my parents also reinforced my attachment disorder. I had a dog that died in 2015. I cried as I euthanized him. I do think of him. Does this mean I was attached? He’s gone. That’s it. It’s inevitable. People I knew died. Did I cry? Yes. But then they are gone and I think of them from time to time but again it’s over. They are gone. When people are with me, I have fun and laugh and so forth but, when I am not with them it’s like they disappear. If they never were around again then there is nothing I can do. People and animals come and go. I just enjoy them when they are there and if they are gone, they are gone. It’s beyond my control. Does this sound narcissistic? I do care for people when I’m around them. In the sense that I would help someone or share my largesse with people. I want to entertain them and make them happy. I want them to have a good time and give them a happy experience. Is that Narcissistic? I do it so they will like me. So they will think of me and be happy. So they can have a good memory of me. Is that Narcissistic? Is it altruistic narcissism? Giving to get approval? Identifying what others require and giving it to them so they think highly of me? I’m confused now. HG, Can you help me out? What is the difference between wanting to gain approval and wanting to gain fuel? Is that not what a narcissist wants, attention to make people have good feelings toward them? If anyone else could advise me, it would be much appreciated. I really would appreciate your opinion though HG as you are the master. Please.
Jaeger,
I forgot to add, I too have lost many people in my life (lots of family death) and everyone grieves differently. It took me months to feel the gravity of some of the losses, 6 months to cry. Other times, I grieved in an unhealthy manner for an extended period of time at my mothers death (For about a year). It is healthy to feel the pain and move on. To keep living. As long as you are not stuck in some stage of either denial of the feelings for extended periods (years) or stuck in the well of despair(a year or more), you are probably grieving how you know best.
We all experience empathy differently too. We are all on an empathy spectrum. I sometimes wonder, where is my empathy? That is normal. My empathic ex (my only one, haha) told me he never saw me cry when he expected (like when he proposed or during movies or when he wrote poetry). I showed strong appreciation. I just do not cry often, and when I do, it is after a long time of processing. OR…when I am angry. Then I cry like a damned faucet while being angry and yelling. OOOO I hate that about myself! My point being, we are all different. And, that is OK! (((HUGS!!)))
“The Creature had all of that and it can keep it.” Looking forward to this book too… as I’m curious if you will be opening that door, learning about him again and nurture/ heal this part of you or will he be shunned and shut out in his dungeon within.
Mr. Tudor,
Not everything you attach to will let you down. I understand why you believe that they will and I know it’s hard to believe, but it’s true. And no, I’m not just being a sappy empath 😊.
And:
I had to look up articulated lorry (much less exciting than I would have hoped. But a much cooler was to say 18 wheeler!). I’ll understand what everyone’s saying when I visit the UK thanks to you. 😉
This subject is hard. They say life is not a final destination but a journey and that people are there to accompany us for a while and not for the whole trip. People (and also pets) come and go in our lives and we build a strong bond with some of them. It is the memory of those people and our experiences in life that remain with us. Without attachment, there is no bond, no connection and no memories of our past relationships.
I understand your perspective HG.
I have loved and lost people dear to me and pets too. I had to take one of my cats to the vet today actually she’ll be having a leg off tomorrow after an rta. Will cost me an arm and leg myself! My other cat is outside currently moping about looking for her.
I digress.
The sadness after losing my mother left me wondering is that it then? Gone. Poof! One minute we’re here the next we’re not. What’s the point? I don’t actually know. But the grief did pass. It’s become part of my and my children’s lives. Remembering her doesn’t cause pain anymore. And yes, having her in our lives brought all manner of things including joy and love. Guess I was one of the fortunate ones. But….
My point isn’t really about the joy “attaching ” to someone can bring but more than if we don’t attach then what would we be other than empty little voids wandering around, never satisfied because there’s always the void….as you well know.
That’s not a nice feeling surely, and it does slip through the construct and touch you sometimes and you don’t like it understandably. Not being able to feel joy or happiness then manifests as intense anger which fuels the lack of care and so it goes on and on and on.
I know you say this does not trouble you and you are spared the pain that attaching can bring but actually, then, what IS the point? I guess this thought wouldn’t ever cross your mind?
For me, sure I get annoyed being so bloody philosophical about it all the time and some days I do think no this just Sucks, but in general if we don’t care then that just incites anarchy doesn’t it? I’m a tad worried about it tbh and feel things are snowballing a little.
Thoughts anyone? I have to say Bueller here obviously.
I suppose there is some truth in that.
But narcs are attached to the compulsion of gaining fuel
“I may align interests and outcomes and sense a mutuality of purpose but I feel nothing for these appliances. There is no bond. There is nothing attaching me to them…. There is just nothing there.”
There is something there. It would take the right message on white parchment paper mailed from MatriNarc to hit you right at your core. She would still be able to wound. If you can still be wounded, there is something there that could be healed. A long, scary journey back, but it could be done.
We’ve all been hurt. We all don’t trust as easy. We’re not best friends forever like in school after one great conversation over a shared meal with someone new. The innocence goes away but the ability to truly bond with someone who will just get you and accept you with no hostility can still exist.
Definitely MLA. When my ex used to shut me down for daring to be cross about anything, I said well at least I care! The danger comes when I don’t get cross anymore because that’ll mean i don’t give a damn.
Because then you’re just numb. Not angry or delighting in generating a response. Just numb. Zero. So yes the fact that you have this “fury” within you means you have Unresolved Issues HG. And with ever so careful picking apart couldn’t they be resolved?
I presume one of the main stumbling blocks to this is that you don’t *consciously* care enough to invest in doing it. For reasons you’ve given us already.
“If you can still be wounded, there is something there that could be healed.”
That’s profound, Clarece. I wholeheartedly agree.
I do not.
For now.
The healing of the wound already happens through the provision of fuel. That is not linked to ‘something else being there’.
Being let down, breaks open a wound never properly healed. Those are your words. That happens when you feel you aren’t appreciated, valued, adored, held in esteem for your brilliance, and commanding full attention through your dominance and control. If there was nothing, that wound would not continue to break open again and again reminding you of your humanity with having insecurities and the shame MatriNarc ramrodded in you. The cycle repeats over and over. Yes, your circuitry is different. Yes, you have a limited range of emotions and only negative ones. But in your circumstance I believe nurture and not just nature modified your outcome. There was something there and maybe something could be there again.
I had another thought this morning with regard to you insisting there is nothing there. Why then did you feel compelled to avenge Lenox when Lesley hurt his feelings at the bar with her friends? Lenox being a close secondary source as a family member who you have said you are fond of because he looks up to you, could have just heard some consoling words from you and be sent along his way. But no, it affected you. You hated that she exploited a weakness on his part and took matters into your hands for an astounding 6 months to carry out a revenge plan.
Oh, my friend, there IS something right there.
No, it is because it impacted on me through the extension that is Lennox and therefore she had to be dealt with.
We can agree to disagree on this one. I’m sure you’ve heard the saying, if you mess with someone in my family, you may as well have messed with me. You don’t make that cognitive choice to avenge for all of your “extensions”. Maybe you don’t even see it yet?
I understand your point. My treatment of her also factors in to the Grand Design which you do not know about. When that emerges you will see that my defence of Lennox was motivated by MY needs – his just happened to align with my own.
Grand design? As in the master plan that will eventually lead to MatriNarc’s comeuppance? Lesley factors in to that?
Ugh! HG! You’re making my head hurt…
Lesley should be so insignificant to you by now. You already won.
Ugh again…
Pls give us a hint on this ‘grand plan/design’?!!
I am dying of curiosity!!
“The healing of the wound already happens through the provision of fuel.”
That’s not healing as I understand it. What you are doing is dressing your wounds where they are weeping… does not change anything… you need to remove the rotting flesh underneath to heal fully and permanently.
There is nothing suppurating on me Matilda!
I agree. The wounding wouldn’t happen so frequently otherwise. The fuel is too fleeting.
Clarece
Yes, my first thought was that it would seem fuel being collected all day every day would stockpile in relation to the number of criticisms etc that cause wounding and require fuel so there must be a gaping wound that never heals.
Then I also considered they can imagine criticism where there is none and the construct needs to be patched and fortified constantly, so fuel could dissipate quickly and require preventative and ongoing collection. So now Im back to the chicken or the egg.
I was watching an Episode of Bette and Joan on FX the other day which is covering the Hollywood feud between Betty Davis and Joan Crawford during filming of their two movies together towards the end of both of their careers.
During a heated argument between the two women, Betty asked Joan, “What was it like to be the prettiest woman in Hollywood?” Joan replied, “It was never enough.” Then Joan asked Betty, “What was it like to be the most talented actress in Hollywood?”. Betty answered, “It was never enough.”
There will never be enough fuel to fix all the wounds inside.
You have to finally hit reset, recalibrate and then restart yourself.
I second that!!! Very profound. As HG would say, “there is force” in those words, MLA!
Oi, find your own phrases!!
*Sticks tongue out*
I would find my own, but you use them all soooooo well. ACCORDINGLY, I will INVARIABLY use yours!!!
Muah ah ah ah….
Good recovery.
Ohhh Indy! Thank you! HG was quick to be very dismissive on that, which I think adds to the force of it, no? Denial wears blinders.
“There is nothing suppurating on me Matilda!”
I believe you, I was just using a metaphor, HG. 🙂 Metaphorically speaking, your flesh is rotting with envy and hatred, and all things locked away…
HG,
I agree with Indy, “Good” therapist should be empathetic and compassionate to all their clients. I am sorry Dr. E and Dr. O are not being true to you or their profession. They should not be practicing!
I have met quite a few sociopaths and psychopaths that have told me they love their children or wife/gf. Yes these people admit they have hurt them over and over again but what is interesting is they really feel some kind of attachment to them.
Some psychologists would say it’s because they perceive the family member or wife as their property or little versions of themselves.
I remember Richard kuklinski saying he loved his family even thought he caused them so much pain. He said that he never trusted anyone like he trusted his wife. She was the only person in his whole life that he ever learned to trust.
It’s all very interesting…..
Say hello to Batman for me :))
You just did.
i🖤that
Wow Dr Harleen
it sounds so good to me to hear that.
I guess this explains why my mid-ranger said to me “I will never leave my wife. I will die before I ever leave her”.
love is nothing but a a taught construct…
Dr Harleen, of course they say they “love” them if “love” to them = the feeling of an attachment toward the fuel these ppl provide. And it sounds like you are judging sociopaths/psychopaths on their words, which suggests to me that you don’t really have much of an understanding of them at all
Speak to me when you have a doctorate and you have published a paper.
It is their own definition of love
We all define love differently
This is a very powerful piece of writing.
Post-discard, I felt very much the same, and, to some degree, still do. Rejection from the one you love shatters the core of your being, rejection from the one who brought you into this world must hurt even more. But I know that shutting yourself out just to avoid pain cannot be the answer!
You are safe from feelings in your numbness, but miserable *all the same*. Envy and hate are gnawing away at your gut. You can either spend the rest of your life hating everybody for the crimes of a few, or, you can make peace with The Creature and move on. I know what I will do.
I’ve had different attachments on my vibrator over the years, but i’ve never cried when they’ve snapped in half, been surgically removed by a doctor or kept as evidence at a Welsh crime scene.
I went searching for something hidden and untouched, and then it hit me like a bird’s carcass on a windscreen – The Narcissist.
Create. Sleep. Repeat.
We are vulnerable regardless of what we do.
Sorry if this is too personal, did you witness many machinations being carried out against your father?
Yes.
So you vowed never to end up like that. I wish I had had a real education earlier in life I’ll tell ya.
HG
I am curious
We all live in the moment, yet don’t really see it as such. Our hopes and dreams of the future is really just our imagination and our past is just a memory. The only reality of things is right now this moment and yet we don’t live in it.
Attachment is wonderful so long as it is kept in the moment, yet once you start to move to the imagination it can move in serveral directions which in turn can lead one to worry and misery. Past memories effect the imagination of the future because painful things are remember in vivid detail vs the pleasant ones, which in turn effect the outcomes of ones actions. So in effect self prophecy is fulfilled. You dictate the outcome, Empaths are guilty of this just I don’t believe to the extent Narcissists are.
Empaths who have suffered tremendous abuse (both physical and emotional) can become isolated, alone, shut off from the world, from everyone. We can live like we are living in some kind of cocoon, a relationship cocoon, not letting anyone close as a way of keeping safe. No attachments, similar to the narcissist, with the exception of no attachment of others to us. I lived like this for years, in a kind of secret way that I wasn’t even fully aware of until about these past couple years. I am free of that now. My safety zone isn’t hiding away behind literal walls anymore, it’s knowledge. I know what happened to me and why. I know what a narcissist is and how to detect one and how to defend mysef now. I’ve done a lot of research all over the net. HG, some of your post have been helpful also. All types of people can be afraid of pain at some point in their lives, the way to conquer the fear is usually movement, step out of the paralyzing state of fear one is in. For non-narcissists: Relationships with the right people bring great reward that can’t be measured. We shouldn’t allow fear to block us from this treasure in life. It feels awesome to be free, to be Me. I haven’t felt this great in years.
sometimes the cocoon/isolation is safe depending on the situation and early life experiences
But isn’t searching for fuel in reality searching for attachment, even if it’s temporary? In the case of IPPS, it is a search for a more permanent attachment. Attachment in essence is a connection, and more often than not it changes, lessens or increases. It’s also fluid in case of empaths.
The difference is we feel it, and you don’t. But you’re still on the hunt for an attachment.
No it is extraction.
An exhausting extraction.
You speak of wanting to conserve energy. How is it not still taxing on the body and mind just juggling all these relationships whether primary, secondary, tertiary or wherever on the supply chain?
I break it down like this. Post University life, graduating and getting out into the real world, there has been the professional climb in your career. Lots of time and focus devoted in that area.
Somewhere I’m guessing in late your 20’s to early 30’s you had your 4 year marriage from start to finish. Then there has been what, at least 8 different, significant girlfriends you have written about here which doesn’t include the ones we don’t know about, the flings, the one night stands, the dirty little secrets, the candidates in waiting, etc. You’ve said your relationships typically last 6 months to 2 years.
Some partners you have lived with. Some you have not. With all the breakups, there is the moving in and out, the upheaval of changing addresses with all creditors, getting your driver’s license updated, getting your items returned even if you weren’t moved in. The constant back and forth with exes because we know you don’t give closure so must be lingering conversation with most of them. So I’m guessing all of this over a 10-15 year period? (Your longest hoover happened at 12 years).
STOP THE MADNESS!!!! Why are you not just fatigued from all of it? It is mentally mind boggling. Fine, you don’t feel the emotions of happiness or joy. Does it mean you also don’t ever just get worn out?
Do you ever play hookey? As in take a mental health day to not deal with anything or anyone you don’t want to?
There are several errors in your interesting construction but that is not a criticism, you are of course building it with not all the known facts, but I find it interesting to read. I imagine it may seem exhausting to you but it is not to me. Since you took the time to construct an analysis, it is only courteous to provide you with the detail in response.
For instance, I do not sell my properties if I live with somebody at a different property. I keep the bolthole. They may live with me at my property. I also move around a lot owing to my profession so I am used to this fluidity. Your observations concerning addresses etc are valid for others but don’t apply to me. The back and forth you mention with the exes is tiring for them, but not for me, it is part of the modus operandi of gaining fuel and thus invigorating. Remember, my mind triple tracks so I can keep the various plates spinning without too much effort, I have done this through the majority of my life (thus I am well practised).
It is not madness. To you it is because you look at it from your perspective (which is to be expected) but from my perspective this is MY normal and necessary. No, I do not get worn out. I once in a while wonder if that might ever happen, usually based on comments from others about the whirlwind they see, but it has not done so, so far and I see no reason why it should not.
Do I play hookey? I do not need to Clarece, I do what I want anyway.
Fair enough Ferris Bueller!
I realize your ability to compartmentalize is second to none.
Take for instance going through the divorce. Even when having a pretty amicable separation (I even worked 1/2 day before meeting up with my attorney to head to the Courthouse on the day of the divorce), the time involved with mediation appointments, attorney appointments, separating bank accounts, splitting the house up, etc., it is all massively time consuming. I was lucky I could kind of go on auto pilot at work for about a year 1/2, because my productivity there suffered. As it did again going thru the 2 year ups and downs with JN.
I think for many, where one area consumes so much time and energy, naturally other areas fall on the back burner. It does seem mind boggling maintaining so well in so many areas over the long haul.
Ha ha, Bueller? Bueller? Thanks for adding your perspective.
ED
What if the empath is intuned with her surroundings, would you say they still look for this attachment?
Hm, you see, as a child I used to be intuned with everything around me much more than as an adult. Then the abuse happened, and it disconnected me from the flow for a while. I’m in the process of being connected again as we speak.
To answer your question I’d need to write more about how I see the nature of things, their both separateness to ensure freedom of being, and connectedness in the predictable patterns of this universe to ensure life continues and is free. The aloneness of everything in the river of life is pining towards oneness via waking up to self awareness. It is happening through empathy, I see it as the biggest achievement of evolution thus far. Our DNA clock struck the fourth time in four million of years giving us little mirror neurons to look at the universe and see the meaning of everything.
Curious did the abuse happen as a child or an adult?
I would be interested in reading your views on this. Will you expand on this aloneness of everything vs waking up to self awareness? When did you become self aware?
You may see the misery that comes with attachment in our world as a disadvantage, however, you are chained to your appliances, which you regard as inferior, for fuel. Your inability to connect was simply exchanged for shackles. At least we are free, while it is your kind who are enslaved.
Hence the wounding when we go NC.
For once though, I agree with your reasoning re attachments. I try my best to stay unattached. I have my small circle that I love intensely but I try not to let anyone else in. Don’t want to risk being hurt again. The last person I was persuaded to let in was the ex husband. That worked out well for me didn’t it! Haha.
Nope, I’m in agreement HG. Protect yourself and let no one break down that barrier. Attachments make you vulnerable.
I feel a little bit attached to you HG..
Entirely understandable.
I was hoping you didn’t mind too much.
It is not attachment that brings about misery, HG. It is attachment to the wrong people like your kind that does so.
Thanks for your perspective IL. I don’t know if you are an animal lover, but if you are, would you be upset when your pet dies?
I am an animal lover, yes. I did lose my dog of 12 years. I was heartbroken and cried a lot. However, I did spend 12 wonderful years enjoying his company and making memories that will always be with me. After a while, I regained serenity and peace knowing he had a great life, was loved, and taken good care of. Thank you for asking.
Thank you for answering. You would not regard your dog as ‘bad’ would you? Thus that attachment has caused you upset but was not what you would call a bad attachment.
I hope it’s okay that I also reply here. I had a pet (dog) for many years. He was my constant companion, like a best friend. Yes, I grieved greatly when he died of old age causes. BUT, I am extremely grateful for all the years of love and joy and companionship that we shared. I cherish the time we had together and the grief of losing him does not outweigh all the years together, no way! He was worth it, more than worth it! The love stays with you and so does the joy:)
I lost my dog to old age 6 years ago. I will never own a dog again.
I will never put myself through the pain of losing an animal again.
Self protection.
No, you didn’t rise from anywhere. You left yourself there, that part of yourself, the feeling part. “One bitten, twice shy.” No more pain for you! You will be the pain giver, the monster. Courage is what faces fear and pain, that’s why it’s called courage. It’s not easy because of the fear. Fear exists because of pain. Empaths are of great courage.
Reading this, I felt such heaviness. I am still processing it all. Thank you for sharing as this is not just helpful for us, but for you as well.
I am not sure where your journey will go. Though, it seems, you are seeing that this creature are something different than you did a year ago. That it has qualities that you have denied yourself access to for protection of your heart. I have been debating (internally) whether you had these qualities and then blocked them out or that you had reduced empathy from birth and the environment exacerbated this. I do believe in the bio-psycho-social theory, and…because of my nature, I also hold hope that you will see growth that this growth will serve you in your journey.
Part way through reading your piece, I felt like I was reading the perspective of a reluctant Buddhist. You probably are familiar with the concept that all suffering arises from attachment. Freedom comes with being less attached to this world. Then, HG, I realized. This is not true. You ARE attached. Just not to us. To fuel. This, my friend, still causes you suffering. This attachment. They question then remains, is it worth it anyway? You see, that is how we, non-fuel dependent individuals function, we love and we loose. We love and we grow. We hurt, yes….and it is soooo worth it. It is because we accept that pain is the risk.
“pain without acceptance = suffering”
Peace to you,
Indy
Very nice Indy! Now that I’m practicing mindfulness, I’m learning that we fear all that we attach with. I’m learning I do not have to attach for fear of being alone. We are all one.
“The Buddhist teaching on non-attachment is ultimately about realizing the truth of yourself. That is, realizing that you’re an expression of the entire cosmos. That you’re in the cosmos, that the entire cosmos is in you in a very real and observable way, and that there is no separating the two (and everything that comes with the realization).” Matt Valentine
Love,
That is like music to my ears, girl!!! <3
And, indeed, I too believe we are all connected in this universe. We will never be abandoned. Simply because we cannot abandon ourselves. (OK, where are those snacks!)
Wow Indy! As I read this post, I was thinking almost the same thing! I am a haphazard follower of Tibetan Buddhism and have been fighting what seems to be a losing battle against attachment for many years. As I read HGs description, I was at first wondering if not being able to form interpersonal attachments/attachments to objects could in some way be an advantage on the road to enlightenment (still contemplating that one). But you hit the nail on the head when you pointed out the massive attachment to fuel. Still, it is intriguing…one big attachment compared to all the myriad so many of us have. If narcissists could let go of their attachment to fuel, would they be farther along the path than the rest of us? Of course there is the lack of compassion… What do the rest of you all who’ve studied Buddhism think?
Hi Windstorm,
I have been thinking about this a little more.
Forgive me if I blab a bit…lol….I think the Buddhist concept of attachment is a little different than the concept that developmental psychs use to describe human attachments. With that said, the narcissists need for fuel (an addiction in my perspective) is being bound to fuel, an attachment in the Buddhist sense. Like one may have with their possessions, their image, etc. Many narcissists seem, in my opinion, to be attached to an image, a façade, the concept of winning and “being the doer” as HG says. This is the armor they wear. Narcissists are bound by their addiction to fuel to keep this armor strong, the construct strong. However, I do not believe that cutting off all intimacy with another is a peaceful detachment at all (unlike Buddhist detachment). In my view, it is a defensive position, readying for war.
Just talking out loud….I don’t know the answers but the thought journey is helpful for me 🙂
I have tried to be more “Buddhist” in my relationships with people in the past, especially when I felt I “loved too much”. It is so hard not to be attached and not care and I attempted for a more middle ground. I struggle sometimes with this. It is also hard, as part of my job is to care, relate, empathize and create safe spaces. Boundaries do help, as does compartmenting my emotions, though….it is work. I can do it for my job but in everyday life, my pattern comes out again of loving a bit more and caring a bit more. I am getting better. Through my work in 12-steps in CODA, I have learned about “compassionately” detaching from “the addict”. This practice has given me peace. The armor is something we need too…as we are like slugs with no shell. Another lesson the dance with narcissists give us, the need for that shell.
~~all in balance and moderation~~
The feeling of attachment to another human being is so fulfilling that any misery that it brings along, makes it all worth it. It gives my life meaning, and a sense of being invincible, and all powerful. I feel I can conquer anything, and slay all dragons with ease.
I think I gained few hundred pounds after reading this.
It’s a massive weight you are carrying with you.
Interesting observation Giulia, but I actually feel I am not carrying a massive weight for the reasons explained.
It may not be heavy for you but to me it is. All this thinking about personal relationships….the way I see it is you are either there or not.
I am fortunate and happy to have friends that go back from first grade.
We are growing together. We have been through so much together….
I haven’t been as lucky in love…but I am not worried. I am happy in my life. I really enjoy living in this world.
So the creature is sad/unhappy little boy HG, is it?
That is part of it.
This is seriously scary…
This is so amazingly enlightening. Thanks.
Good and thank you for saying so.