The Narcissistic Truths – No. 48

when-the-crowd-has-gonei-become-someone-else

68 thoughts on “The Narcissistic Truths – No. 48

  1. Windstorm2 says:

    Could be, Brian. Maybe someone has already done a study if you research. I know many of the narcissists that I personally know have some type of substance abuse problem, but not all of them.

    Still, this doesn’t seem to address their total lack of empathy that seems to lead to abusive behavior. My own personal feeling is that no matter how much serotonin you give a narcissist, he will never gain empathy and so at the best will still be causing abuse and hurting people unintentionally.

    Lots of us are chasing serotonin, but don’t deliberately hurt others. My brother in law and I both rely on daily St Johns Wort for depression, but I am not a narc and my brother in law still is. I think you’d need an extensive scientific study to find the answer – and they are very often still inconclusive.

  2. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

    My ex mid ranger used to say that very statement about all of his girlfriends (including me). He actually called me “creature” – gotta love the projection.

    I honestly don’t think mine held up the facade well. I noticed that by the middle – end of the relationship he was making more mistakes and slipping up more at work and what not.

    I often cleaned up his messes because he would make more and more crappy decisions at work.

    He would get caught doing unnecessarily sneaky things that were just so stupid. In addition to this he managed to cause drama with two people that worked with him (underneath him). Truth is he had problems with more than two people but these two were incidences that occurred close together.

    One individual was an old man and another was an individual who was cognitively slow, has some let’s say social issues, and epilepsy. Two populations thatvare extremely vulnerable and tried to make them look bad!

    My ex was a poor communicator and couldn’t handle well… anything properly.

    The dipshit just took his bullshit out on these poor people and actually felt threatened by them (power wise) as if they were defying his authority. The situations he caused were just so ridiculous because he has this need to feel powerful and in control.

    He didn’t seem to realize just how messed up he looked!

    I would say by the middle of the relationship he was showing more of who he was publically.

    As time continues it appears he shows more of his douchebaggery to everyone around him publically even though he was super- douche behind closed doors.

  3. Victoria says:

    Quick question HG.. . I read in one of your books that Matrinarc believed that “white shirts” should only be worn to funerals and not appropriate or classy to wear for any other occasion. This is the first time I had ever heard of this. Is this British protocol? It always stayed with me and I forgot to ask you this before.
    Thanks again.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It is a view of some people, but not a matter of protocol.

  4. Victoria says:

    HG,
    Love the meme-so true! Not just the crowd though, when the door closes at home they are without the facade. What I would mainly notice of my UMRN is a deflated balloon-no spunk, low energy, not much to talk about besides himself and his business although I had heard it a thousand times before. Somehow I found he was much more pleasant and interesting around others. I wonder HG, is this the man’s inner core or part of being a narc or low on fuel?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It is the construct that is the pleasant element.

  5. Twilight says:

    I understand your need for fuel and when things are more towards the negitive side the less then desirable side comes out, after entertaining people you have the positive fuel and having to keep the facade, is the need for a contrast why after everyone leaves the less desired side appears? Or is it because now you can be you? And you can harvest the negitive fuel.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It is for contrast, it is because the person is in devaluation also (if they were not and were in the golden period we would be charming to all).

      1. Twilight says:

        Thank you HG for the clarification.

  6. MLA - Clarece says:

    I really liked the meme someone put on the FB post for this showing the psychotic Gremlin after midnight for when the crowds are gone and the adorable Gremlin during the day in the light around people.

  7. 12345 says:

    I loved when we were in public. He treated me like a queen because people were looking. Especially cocktail parties. I knew is would vanish the minute we left but I loved being in denial in the moment. Now it makes me sick.

  8. Brian says:

    If there was a pill that removed your need for fuel would you take it?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      What’s the cost?

      1. Brian says:

        15 quid for 30 tablets from Boots, no prescription necessary.

      2. A.R. says:

        It’s covered by your health insurance or medical plan….
        Would you take the pill?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I didn’t mean financial cost. Is there any other cost?

      3. Matilda says:

        Firstly, you’d have to acknowledge that you needed this pill, which goes against every fibre of your being. Secondly, you’d have to be committed to taking it as prescribed. And thirdly, you’d eventually have to learn to fuel yourself as any responsible physician would want to wean patients off their drugs. Would you want to take it?

      4. Brian says:

        I was thinking that narcissism could be caused by a brain that is too resistant to dopamine.
        (the resistance caused by too much childhood conflict)
        If this is true St.John’s Wort would be the answer.

        1. Windstorm2 says:

          Interesting hypothesis, Brian. One of my narc brothers in law takes St Johns Wort daily for other reasons. Hasn’t seemed to affect his narcissism any, though. Just makes him feel better. Have you seen any evidence that St Johns Wort is effective?

      5. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

        St. John’s wort is used for depression.

        It increases serotonin mostly but it also increases dopamine, GABA, and norepinephrine.

        The Research is inconclusive.

        Unfortunately I don’t believe there will ever be a pill to take away narcissism. Although a person has a temperamental predisposition the nurture part makes it really come out…

        are you referring more to the shallow emotional aspect of narcissism?

      6. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

        However some research is suggesting that psychopaths have low serotonin and that could contribute to the emotional dysregulation….

    2. Brian says:

      Thanks
      , no evidence, just a theory.

      I wonder if his narcissistic/abusive behaviours have decreased at all since he started taking the St. Johns.

      Exercise is supposed to help dopamine levels, and im pretty sure exercise doesn’t decrease narc behaviours, so I could be barking up the wrong tree.

      1. Brian says:

        I was thinking that the narcissistic abuse was a way of getting their dopamine (or serotonin) levels up temporarily. So, most of the time they are feeling irritable because their levels are too low.
        Well, their levels could be normal but their brains are too resistant.

      2. ava101 says:

        It seems strange to me personally, but there are lots of studies on St. John’s Wort on depression but not on addiction.
        It is unknown how it works in detail.
        And even narcs are not rats (like in the studies).

        But as it is there right now everywhere ready to be harvested, I will try its effect on my (felt) dopamine levels and keep you updated. πŸ˜‰
        Thank you very much for the idea, it might be exactly what I need.

        1. Brian says:

          i would be interested if it reduced your lashing out πŸ™‚

      3. ava101 says:

        HG, but it actually would really be interesting if you tried to increase your dopamine levels on your own instead of abusing someone, could you test this?? Please?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Why?

      4. ava101 says:

        Because I would be very much interested in the result.
        Because I think the same as Brian, considering that you are my mirror: that the need to leash out at someone when feeling irritable has a lot to do with dopamine addiction, a result from your own abuse.

        So you might have more control at your disposal.

        (And cause less collateral damage.)
        (I would like that.)

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Thank you for explaining.

  9. A.R. says:

    When the crowd was there he took off. I learned quickly how to be the greatest hostess & make excuses for him.
    We were never together. Even though he invited all these people to our house. I think he wanted me to abandon them all too but I just couldn’t.
    Days after he would be in his office ignoring me. Now I understand why. I think it bothered him more that his sulking didn’t effect me the way he thought it would.
    Mid range narc. I got off easy. When I look back I realize how much worse it could’ve been and I am truly lucky to have escaped & landed where I did.

    HG,

    Is having people over & disappearing a trait of the mid range?

    What does the disappearing act accomplish?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It is a trait applicable to all of our kind but the Mid Range Narcissist will engage in such behaviour most.
      It will achieve many things – defence, fuel, punishment, opportunities elsewhere.

      1. 12345 says:

        I guarantee insurance won’t cover it. So few physicians take narcissism seriously so why would insurance companies? I wonder what the FDA in America would say if it came across their panel in approval meetings.

  10. B says:

    Is this how we differentiate between the narcissist and the “playboy”?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      A playboy will invariably be a Somatic or Elite narcissist.

      1. B says:

        I’m sorry I’m new with the terminology, what’s somatic or elite narcissist? Is it the same as the greater?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Hello B. There are three schools of narcissist – Lesser, Mid Range and Greater. These schools are sub-divided into three categories so you have Lower Lesser, Middle Lesser and Upper Lesser, for example.
          There are also 4 cadres – Victim, Somatic, Elite and Cerebral – if you read the book Sitting Target this will give you more information about the cadres. The cadres layer onto the schools (although not all).
          Thus you may have a Lower Lesser Victim Narcissist (but never a Lower Greater Victim Narcissist) or a Upper Mid-Range Somatic.

  11. Nat says:

    So when we were having dinner with my family, he was all witty, charming and joyful… I would usually sit quiet to give him the floor for his boasting… but if only I said something “wrong”, if only I showed any sign of being “disobedient” or “criticizing”, I’d get a cold and piercing gaze, his teeth would start to clamp and that moment I knew… I knew what would happen once we’re going to be alone.

    My family told me they saw these moments, how he was keeping emotions inside, not allowing to blow in fury. But they didn’t know how awful this fury was, once we were left alone.

    1. Windstorm2 says:

      Nat, that’s particularly hard to deal with. It really makes you feel isolated and helpless when you have to listen to someone praising your narc because they “just roll with everything and never let things upset them!” Them praising the narcs self-control. But that’s all these people see, so that’s how they think it always is.

      Unless they have a narc in their family too. Then you see by their expressions that they know how the reality of how the narc is, and it really helps, at least it did for me. So much of the problem with living with a narcissist is from all the crazy making and doubting yourself. Seeing someone else recognize things for how they really are is like when the sun breaks thru dark clouds.

  12. K says:

    Since the summer solstice is upon us and The Boys of Summer are back, I was thinking, wouldn’t it be cool if we could get together and play baseball? HG, you could be the New York Narcs and we could be the Boston Empaths. If we kicked your ass, then you could just change the score and gaslight us and the spectators, thus, convincing everyone that you really won. If you feel outnumbered, you can have Trump on your team; we don’t want him on ours. Happy summer to everyone in the Northern Hemisphere!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      “if we kicked your ass” – I am pleased you used if because that would not happen.

      The Donald is always welcome.

      1. K says:

        HG
        Since you have been teaching me the ways of The Force, I have leaned to choose my words wisely when dealing with a Greater Elite Narcissist. I do not want to incur the wrath of The Sith.

    2. Anonymous says:

      “you can have Trump on your team; we don’t want him on ours.”

      I just inhaled some of my food.

    3. AH OH says:

      K

      Trump can be on my Team. 0 in 5. Someone better change their strategy. My team has the name of SILENT, but waking up, Majority.

      I will take all Narcs for my team, except for HC. She will strike out and blame someone or something else. She is not a good sport.

      1. K says:

        AH OH
        Ok, then you can have Sam Vaknin, too!

        1. AH OH says:

          Sure, if HG allows this. I have designated HG as Captain.

      2. K says:

        AH OH
        As far as sociopaths go, HG seems quite open-minded so he may not mind Sam V. being on the team. Good luck with that!

        1. HG Tudor says:

          HG forges his own path.

        2. AH OH says:

          We make our own luck. To do so you have to be good.

          Can you imagine these men in the same room? The power struggle. It would be so interesting to watch.
          I admit that Trump is a child at times but he is NOT a politician so he will not speak like a serpent. I do believe he has our country and it’s citizens best interest at heart. Which is not empathic but narcissitic. We all benefit from this. We have a great country and he gets the credit.
          If you watch all his interviews from nearly 30 years ago, you will see how his story line has been the same. Where HC changed her stance with the wind. She said what we wanted to hear. Obama did nothing to help the immigrants from Mexico. Nothing.
          I am very much involved with the politics and watching from all angles. I vote policy not party. I hope Trump does what he says he will do.

    4. E. B. says:

      Thank you, K !

      1. K says:

        E.B.
        You are very welcome!

  13. jenna says:

    I’ve seen this personally HG frm you and it was scary! Do not post if you don’t wish to. Readers, sometimes i send HG a personal email asking how he’s doing etc. Last wk, i got a glimpse of his fury and deval. Omg i was shaking! Of course, if it were an email consult he is always professional. After this experience, my opinion abt him has changed drastically! I’m always defending him on the blog frm haters etc. being a fan lol. But now that i’ve personally had a glimpse of his fury and deval, i must tell you that this man is PURE EVIL. He makes my ex mid-ranger look like a mouse in front of him, the lion! Run for your lives!! πŸƒπŸƒπŸƒ

    1. HG Tudor says:

      That was not my fury nor devaluation.

      1. jenna says:

        I do not believe you are pure evil anymore. I wrote that a long time ago, before i had audio consults with you. You are very helpful. 😊
        … at least hereπŸ˜…πŸ™πŸ‘»πŸ‘»

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Indeed I am.

  14. Narc affair says:

    In more ways than one. To the primary source during devaluation its hell after the crowd leaves especially if they have seen their narc fully demasked. The crowd offers a sliver of respite from the ugliness under the fake veneer. When the crowd goes the mean nasty side of the narc appears to punish the primary for anything they feel they did wrong and to extract negative fuel now that the positive fuel left for their homes.
    To the narc once the crowd goes home they can sit back and relive the juicy fuel moments but as time marches on the fuel fades and the real self scratches to the surface new fuel is needed to squelch it. It can never see the light of day. Time to look to the matrix for a quick fix to bury that person.

    1. K says:

      Narc affair
      the mask came off and he was scary when no one was around. Dracula, Dr. Jeckyl/Mr. Hyde, Frankenstein, the Werewolf, the invisible Man and the Mummy all in one. It was like Halloween with all tricks and no treats!

      1. Narc affair says:

        I really feel for those living with their narc itd be a horrible thing. Narcs are like jeckyl and hyde.

  15. AH OH says:

    You see, a scary man.

    BOO

  16. No kidding. When mine left the crowds he became a real jerk. I was married to Dr. Jeckyl/Mr. Hyde.

  17. I can vouch for that. Charm level dips lower than low and all that.

  18. Windstorm2 says:

    The reverse was always harder to deal with for me. It always scared me growing up how my mother would totally change into someone sweet, smiling, polite and sort of helpless – like the stereotypical southern belle – around any one but my father and me. Then as soon as they were gone she’d switch back into her domineering, sarcastic and hateful self. Not only was it very Jekyl and Hyde, but it was so instantaneous!
    By the time I was grown I just wanted to smack the crap out of anyone who’d tell me what a “sweet, wonderful woman” my mother was.

    1. windstorm2 says:

      Now I’m stuck thinking about my mother. Seriously it was like flicking a switch the way she’d just transform into someone else. It seemed so schizoid, so surreal. She was so domineering and forceful at home, but acted so unsure- almost subservient in public. Is that because she was a covert midrange, HG? Because I’m pretty sure that’s what she was. All the greaters I know are all very gregarious men who love to take center stage and put on a performance in public. When they go home they stay the same person in essentials, they’re just quieter – not putting on their show. Their essential personality doesn’t change. It’s hard to explain but it feels very different. Is it maybe that midrangers aren’t as comfortable and secure in who they are so they have to pretend more?

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Lessers are bold and brash and are deluded at to their ability. They do not give a fuck.
        Greaters are achievers and therefore have the ability and achievements to back up their behaviour.
        Mid-Rangers are wannabes in the main (they can achieve some success) but they want to be more than they are and they are caught between occasional realisation and jealousy that they are not as ‘good’ or ‘ achieving’ as they would like to think so that they have an inherent tension between wanting to be a certain thing and being reminded that they dall short.

        1. MLA - Clarece says:

          HG, did you ever see the movie “Sling Blade” with Billy Bob Thornton? I think the mom’s boyfriend Doyle is a perfect example of a Lesser and it was exactly why Karl killed him to protect little Frank.
          That has always been a favorite movie of mine.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            I don’t know that one Clarece, I shall have to look it up.

          2. MLA - Clarece says:

            OMG! Please do! Billy Bob won the Oscar for best writing. So many themes you describe play out in this. Seriously, you won’t be disappointed.

    2. Narc affair says:

      This is my mother oh so sweet and caring to others but critical and unfeeling behind the scenes. She had my dads parents snowed over and got a chunk of his inheritance when they divorced bc he was the “bad husband”. At the time i was convinced he was a cheater only. I now know there was more to the story which was a domineering mother in law narc and a wife who tried to control him. When he left he helped pay half the mortgage until she remarried and he left her everything. He only left with his clothes. He wanted out badly and i can see why.

    3. ajo says:

      I so relate to this!! She’d be yelling at me and then pick up the phone with a chipper, “Hello!”. I always called her two-faced. I didn’t figure out who she really was until this year… Until this last relationship with narc #5…yes. It took 5. But they all looked different and the last was the worst and made me look at myself and try and figure out why the hell I kept picking the same kind of man…

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