What Am I To Him?

what-am-i-to-him_

For those who have become ensnared with our kind, it is a frequent question to wonder what you are to the narcissist. Of course, the short answer is that you are an appliance that is there to provide fuel first and foremost and there may also be the acquisition of traits from you and residual benefits. However, those that have begun to understand the narcissistic dynamic to some extent want to know how they have been regarded by the narcissist in terms of that dynamic. Of those questions, these are the ones which appear most often:-

Was I a primary source?

I don’t think I was devalued, why was that?

Have I been discarded?

Why did he not commit to me?

How has he moved on to somebody else so quickly?

Why did I have such a short golden period?

I feel like I am always hanging on for him, why is that?

It is typically the case that those questions are usually asked by someone who is an Intimate Partner Secondary Source (“IPSS”) although that person may not actually realise that this is the case. This article will discuss the IPSS and some of the peculiarities which arise with being an appliance placed in this role.

By way of brief re-cap, someone who is a primary source may be an intimate partner or a non-intimate partner. In the vast majority of cases the primary source is an intimate partner, thus a spouse, partner, boyfriend/girlfriend. You spend most of your time together and this arrangement occurs so that we are able to draw fuel from you each and every day, that fuel is of a high calibre (because of the greater emotional connection you have to us by reason of being a primary source and also because of your empathic traits). Occasionally the primary source is not an intimate partner and is usually then a family member.

A secondary source is a colleague, a friend or a family member. The secondary source will be seduced so that their loyalty and fuel is secured. Of course this is not done in a romantic fashion but through charm, pleasantry, doing favours and handing out benefits so that the appliance is drawn to the narcissist and is then installed in the position of secondary source.

A secondary source has an elongated golden period. This is because of the following factors:-

  1. The narcissist only draws on the secondary source’s fuel intermittently (compared to drawing on the fuel of the primary source);
  2. The secondary source is usually more compliant and does what the narcissist wants because the demands made of him or her are not as extensive as those made on the primary source;
  3. The fuel provided by the secondary source stays fresher and more potent for longer because it is only drawn on intermittently;
  4. The secondary source is less likely to challenge,wound or defy the narcissist

Accordingly, a secondary source will  enjoy a lengthy golden period. They may not be ever be devalued. If they fail to provide fuel, become disloyal and fail to do what the narcissist wants, they may be devalued but usually they will be immediately discarded. This is because it serves the narcissist better to remove the ‘rotten apple’ from hanging around and polluting the minds of other members of the coterie. It is also easy enough to seduce a new secondary source or turn to other existing ones. Thus, where a secondary source becomes unreliable they are usually discarded. Devaluation may only occur where an example needs to be made of the secondary source (this is usually more of the case for colleagues and family members as there is a connection beyond friendship) or the narcissist feels a need for the negative fuel and does not regard the devaluation as likely to damage the façade.

All secondary sources commence their relationship with the narcissist from a non-intimate position and there they may stay for a very long time. Some however are promoted to the position of IPSS.

This happens when the narcissist is devaluing their primary source and is looking to replace them. The promotion of a secondary source to that of IPSS means that we are considering whether you are worthy of then being promoted to a IP primary source and the existing one is discarded.

When this happens there is also the likelihood of somebody else occupying the role of IPSS. We often have more than one as in effect we are holding auditions for those who may be promoted to the position of primary source. This results in several scenarios arising.

  1. The existing primary source, let us say this is a wife, is being devalued. The narcissist embarks on affair with another woman who is the IPSS. She may have been someone he has known as secondary source friend for some time and has recently promoted, or he may have approached her and become a secondary source friend who is very quickly promoted to IPSS. In this dynamic you, as the IPSS, may know about the wife and she is smeared to you, she is abusive, unloving and so on. You are seduced and your responses convince the narcissist that you will make an effective primary source so the existing primary source is discarded and you are then installed as the replacement primary source.
  2. The scenario is the same as above however there are periods during your seduction as IPSS when the narcissist goes quiet. You may think that you are being devalued. You are not. As explained above, the narcissist regards a secondary source as an intermittent provider of fuel and therefore when this happens it is likely that a Respite Period has been granted to the existing primary source, thus the narcissist allows a golden period again, he is preoccupied with the existing primary source and you are kept on ice until the Respite Period ends. The devaluation of the existing primary source continues and your seduction continues once again. Eventually, the narcissist deems you worth of promotion, you are embedded and the existing primary source is discarded and you are installed as her replacement. This may take months or even years. During this period, if you accept the periods of quiet without complaint, there will be no comeback from the narcissist. If however you question what is going on, you will most likely be subjected to future-faking from the narcissist in order to maintain your interest. He will talk about needing to sort divorce arrangements out, or how the house is taking too long to sell, the children need to be sorted out, he hasn’t told his parents yet, it is not a good time for the soon to be ex-spouse as her father has died, it is her birthday next month, it is nearly Christmas and so on. This future faking is done because the narcissist regards you as too valuable to drop and wants to keep you in place as you are earmarked for promotion, but he has not yet decided that you are worthy of such promotion and thus has allowed the existing primary source Respite Periods until he is convinced you are a worthwhile replacement.
  3. The same scenario as two above but there is another IPSS. In order to better our chances of securing an excellent replacement primary source, we are devaluing the existing primary source and we are cultivating leads with at least two IPSS. Thus, we spend the occasional wonderful weekend with you but make various excuses as to how we can only see you once a month. This is being done for two reasons. The first is because we must make time for the ongoing devaluation of the primary source and also to spend time with the other IPSS who is being cultivated. The second reason is to test your resolve. If you reject such an arrangement then we will conclude that you lack certain traits that would make you a good primary source, such as you challenge us too readily, you lack ‘stickability’ and you are not responding to our charm and seduction as deeply as we had hoped or planned. In such an instance our attention will switch to the other IPSS but you are unlikely to be discarded. This is because you have shown potential, provided fuel and therefore we may as well keep you on ice to call on for fuel or to triangulate with the existing primary source and/or the other IPSS in order to satisfy our fuel needs.

If you do not challenge this arrangement then it is a straight fight between you and the other IPSS as to who will eventually be crowned as primary source. You may know about the devalued primary source but you probably will not know about the other IPSS. You will both be tested, so you can expect cancelled arrangements, occasional bouts of odd acts and distant behaviours. These are not acts of devaluation but are rather tests during your seduction to ensure that you are made of the right stuff to be promoted to primary source and also that you are better than your competing IPSS. The nature of this competition is such that you may be in front one month and thus things will seem to be going well with us and then you will be behind your competitor the next month so things will be less pleasant. You are jockeying for position and all the while we are obtaining fuel as we ascertain who will be the best person to be promoted. This could go on for years as you are strung along.

If you then learn that the primary source has finally been discarded but somebody else is being paraded around as our girlfriend and you cannot understand how that has happened, because there is still (albeit minimal) contact with you, then you have lost the race to become primary source. This other person seems to have come out of nowhere but they have not. They have been cultivated behind the scenes and we have decided that they would make the best primary source. The existing one has been discarded, the competitor IPSS who you knew nothing about (or might just have been referred to as a ‘friend’) is installed as primary source.

Even when this happens, you are still unlikely to be discarded because we still see value as keeping you as a secondary source. There has been some investment in you and if you do not cause a problem for us, you will be retained and at some future point there will be a resumption of the relationship to draw fuel, to use you to triangulate with the now being discarded primary source and even to consider installing you as primary source. This latter consideration arises where you would be a good primary source, but the competitor was deemed even better. However, once that competitor is devalued, your status as a good potential primary source is revisited. Unless of course another competitor IPSS is sought and this one is deemed better than you.

If you rail against this treatment as you find yourself side-lined when you expected to become the primary source, but some usurper has appeared instead, this may be tolerated for the negative fuel and the purposes of triangulation. If however you become problematic whereby you may expose us, causes problems with the façade and interfere with the newly installed primary source, you can expect to be devalued, smeared and discarded.

4. You may find that there is no primary source. You are referred to as partner or girlfriend but your engagement with us is intermittent, excuses are made as to why we cannot see more of you, there are occasional periods of silence and you are strung along in this position for some time, unsure of what you actually are. Are you our girlfriend or just a friend with benefits? When this happens it is the case that we will have several IPSS on our books. The combination of all these interests and the attendant fuel means that there is no pressing need for a primary source and we are content to alternate between the various IPSS until we establish one which is installed as primary source.

The IPSS does not experience the standard template of seduction-devaluation-discard and this is why many commentators fail to explain our behaviours effectively to someone who is an IPSS. The narcissistic dynamic is different. The reason for this is that you are effectively placed in limbo. You may not be good enough to be promoted to the position of primary source but you are too valuable to be cast to one side and thus the dance continues for as long as you will allow it without wounding or challenging us.

Those who do not understand our kind tend to fall into the trap of thinking that we are some kind of commitment-phobe and will dole out erroneous advice to you in terms of making you try to bring about that commitment. All this will do is cause you further consternation as the decision is ours, not yours.

If you find yourself in the position of engaging with somebody who treats you well, but only does so intermittently, who occasionally seems to test you (and it is often difficult to spot this) and issues lots of promises about what will happen in the future but there is never any delivery, there is every chance that you are an IPSS entangled with one of our kind.

57 thoughts on “What Am I To Him?

  1. Sarah says:

    1. Was I a IPSS candidate? IPSS Shelf? IPPS Candidate? Is there a IPPS Candidate or is that the IPSS Candidate?

    We met online and talked on the phone for 6 months (lived in different states). He left his girlfriend because she supposedly was a narcissist herself. We would flirt. He valued me as I helped him a lot and then I felt devalued. I was getting a lot of attention from him and then he went hot and cold.If/when I would state if something bothered me and then he would say that he feels like being quiet and we will talk in a few days.. and then he would contact me again. It was back and forth like this for 2-3 months, He also blamed me for expecting to hear from him. He disappeared for a few weeks and then returned… etc. etc My mind is still foggy from the experience that I escaped from recently. So, he paid me much attention and it felt like I was a primary source/ almost a girlfriend but he knew that I know how narcissists operate. I was evaluating if he was a narcissist. It sounds like he is after all. He did say he wanted to be friends but would flirt and still call and play these games. He would also seem interested when I would talk about how I am as a gf or my past relationships as if he was making a assessment.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      That would be established through a consultation Sarah.

  2. geyserempath says:

    I booked a telephone consultation with HG and it was the most insightful, meaningful, and productive hour I have spent in quite some time. If any of you are unsure if you are dealing with a Narc, what kind of Narc you are dealing with, what you should do henceforth, book an email or telephone conversation. HG’s insights and guidance are spot on fabulous! Thank you, HG for giving me peace of mind!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are welcome and thank you for the endorsement, it is appreciated.

  3. George says:

    HG- I am not sure if I was her primary source or her secondary source since I live an hour away from her ( I am away at med school). I think I was her primary source because even though we didn’t see each other every day we texted/FaceTimed about every 30 minutes at least all day everyday and we were engaged. She hasn’t been engaged before or since me and it’s been 8 months since she left me. HG do you think I was her primary or secondary source?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I would need more information which should be provided through a consultation.

  4. Insatiable Learner says:

    Thank you very much, HG! Very insightful!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are welcome.

  5. Fiona says:

    HG – I was the colleague very quickly promoted to IPSS but he never smeared his gf, she was always wonderful. What gives here???

    He claimed we had to end things bc he is about to get married and regretted his behaviour and never wants to cheat again…..while sexting and hoovering me for another 4 months and enjoying a golden period with the new IPSS.

    Does the gf serve the purpose of being an excuse for when he starts devaluation and a valid reason for the disengagement???

  6. Alexissmith2016 says:

    When ‘testing’ your new ipss, what sort of tests and what are you hoping for in terms of their response HG ?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      The responses will be ones of exhibiting they are under control and that they are providing positive fuel. Tests would include

      a. Commenting about another woman in favourable terms;
      b. Failing to call at an appointed time;
      c. Cancelling a date;
      d. Probing about a vulnerability they have shared;
      e. Issuing a portentous remark
      f. Explaining an ex has been contacting me.

      1. Insatiable Learner says:

        So what sort of responses to the above would be deemed the IPSS passing the test with flying colors from a narc’s perspective, HG? Thanks so much!

        1. HG Tudor says:

          a. Commenting about another woman in favourable terms; – an initial pang of jealousy but evidencing agreement with what I have said in order to please
          b. Failing to call at an appointed time; – contacting me to find out what has happened
          c. Cancelling a date; – contacting me to find out what has happened and evidencing upset
          d. Probing about a vulnerability they have shared; – wanting to share
          e. Issuing a portentous remark – dismissing it
          f. Explaining an ex has been contacting me. – asking what she wanted

  7. Alanis says:

    I feel like such a fool… that i have been through this… and I keep trying not to see it this way… I keep feeling… and wishing…

  8. PhoenixRising says:

    Mind fuck- such a perfect description!! I believe I am/was an IPSS of sorts who got shelved (no sex because I am married and didn’t let it go that far, but we had a very intimate friendship with cuddling and the like). I hate that I can’t just walk away from him; that I still want to be in his life and have him in mine even after knowing everything that I know.

  9. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

    If I even have to think about it…I’m so outta that situation because I have zero fucks left.

  10. Alexissmith2016 says:

    How timely. I was literally searching for this article yesterday but couldn’t remeber what it was called. Then an hour later you posted it ! HG you’re scaring me hahah

    I have a new N (they’re like little pets) someone I’ve been friends with for years. He was the one who kept in touch with me, intermittently but persistently – I never really questioned why. And in my usual style I largely ignored him. But in the last six months I’ve engaged more and met with him regularly. The red flags are now glaring. It’s just unbelievable to be honest. I’ve Always hated letting fuel flow (other than positive non-intimate but flirty haha) which is why I’ve never been ensnared as a primary.

    Obviously I don’t want to be a primary anyway, but I’m learning to let some fuel flow just to keep them teetering along and get what I want from the situation. As well as for research purposes.

    I have to say I’m still surprised at this one. Some Ns are so obvious from the outset and others really are cunning little fuckers.

    I feel massively for anyone who is genuinely searching for love. It must be so confusing and hard to trust new people. I’ve read this article many times, but when you repeatedly come back, more things click into place. I’d known this person for many years and finding it hard to beleive still. But I do and I’m going with it.

    I feel like that boy in sixth sense who said “I see dead people everywhere”, except all I see are Ns and victims of Ns. It’s just awful, you can really tell the difference between someone who is upset about something and that vacant sad look. I hate it, but at least I can help speed up their recovery by directing them to your site HG.

    1. gabbanzobean says:

      “I have to say I’m still surprised at this one. Some Ns are so obvious from the outset and others really are cunning little fuckers.”

      OMG yup!!!! Especially the cerebral mid range who is so nice to everyone, Mr. Churchy Church man. And the facade that glows around them is nauseating. You’ll never know the ugliness behind closed doors if you are an IPSS or DLS.

      And yes it is so hard to trust people or even open up to get to know them. I find myself comparing the Narc to everyone. It sucks.

      1. Alexissmith2016 says:

        Hey gabanzobean,

        Ah I really have felt the pain of it.

        My original MN I was ipss but went through all the stages of golden period and devaluation. Lucky for me he didn’t get to discard I did him.

        This MN ticks all the boxes of a mid but is on the cusp of greater because he knows what he is.

        It was horrific and although I never lived with him (he was married) I had all wn same feeling a others describe.

        He’s been with his wife for many years and the cycle I see is her although she is primary. He uses a constant cycle of ipss and puts them through the whole cycle of devaluation and discard, hoovers etc. It’s as though they are his ps.

        Honestly, it was hell and I would never ever go back there.

        But I’m very interested in researching more and helping others speed up recovery and in some instances help them to avoid being ensnared. If I suspect this MN maybe targeting them. I will smear him to them. Just subtly enough. Never tell them what he is. Be nice about him but tell them he’s been through alit of women and he will say this to you and that to you, but then it will turn out like this. And so far so good the people he’s started to target who I have helped have not been ensnared.

        I have to be careful who I would tell though. If he found out ………… 😂😂

      2. PhoenixRising says:

        Gabbanzonean-

        “Mr. Churchy Church man. And the facade that glows around them is nauseating. You’ll never know the ugliness behind closed doors if you are an IPSS or DLS.”

        Oh this!! So much this!! My greater narc is up on a pedestal so high- the godliest, most Christian man ever, except he’s so not and I’m one of the few people who knows it. Nauseating is the perfect description.

        1. gabbanzobean says:

          Phoenix rising,
          I always share this story and it fits the current situation, so I will share it again.

          My “holy religious Mr Church facade” narc…. Mr. piano recital during church ( he plays the piano for church service)…. this one time we went out to dinner after we had sex he says to me ” now if we run into anybody that I know just remember our cover story. We are Bible study partners!” 😂 I wish I was making this up, but I’m not. Ultimate nauseating façade indeed.

      3. PhoenixRising says:

        Gabbanzobean- Mine is the music/choir director!! My goodness! That’s what has really fooled me though- trying to reconcile the perfect Christian everyone adores with the man behind the mask that he truly is.

        1. gabbanzobean says:

          Hmmm here’s the part where I hope we don’t have the same Narc! Mine is music director not choir director though. Another poster on the blog, named Jenna nicknamed him “Mr Piano recital during church”….

          Mr Christian Good Guy. The ultimate facade.

      4. PhoenixRising says:

        Haha, nope not the same narc. Mine is single.
        After being strung along for weeks with promises of sitting down and talking to me, I finally had enough and told mine I was done today. He responded with gas lighting and telling me he will make the time to talk to me. I know I pissed him off. I have not responded to his response. On the one hand, I feel sick about destroying our friendship, on the other hand, I think what friendship? There is a reason I was pushed to this point. This is so hard.

        1. gabbanzobean says:

          Yes I have attempted to remain “friends” with my Narc as well. The only issue is we kept having sex. He did the whole “we need a break” thing but then he began hoovering and I allowed it. It goes back and forth between a few months of quiet and then he will randomly pop up again. I keep trying to tell myself he never loved or cared. That he was an illusion. It is such a mind fuck. “What friendship” pretty much equals it for me too. I still want more and as a DLS I will never get anything other than an occasional crumb or two. Yet I still want him anyway. It is so sick. Yeah mine used the “I will make time for you, I will give you the attention you deserve, we will talk ‘soon’….” He always said that before he would withdraw and ignore me. Soon. I hate that word. I cringe how whenever I hear anyone say “see you soon”. talk about over implying it to the literal sense. Narcholes.

      5. Fiona says:

        Yes, the asshole who calls himself “nice guy” at every opp and everyone agrees. Then there’s me and I know what he’s actually like. Infuriating.

        The new IPSS works with both of us and I am certain he’s smeared me. Right now he’s Mr. Perfect but I’m just looking forward to seeing her goddamn smug face turn into a frown lol

  11. Moonchild says:

    Why did my Narc want to marry me for 4 yrs 4 rings and so persistent? wondering if I am an IPSS to his original wife? I would never marry him due to his drunkenness. Is alcoholism common among you? Is so it confuses the Primary into thinking it is just about the stinking drinking but when you dissect down deep it is the narcissism. I think in my case the mother of the narc is the IPSS, he talks to her of our great sex? Very weird for a fifty year old man??!!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hello MoonChild, please see the articles ‘The Narcissist and Marriage’ and ‘Cheers – The Narcissist and Alcohol’.

  12. PhoenixRising says:

    I seem to be in situation number 4. Stuck in purgatory. I have vacillated from hating the way he’s treating me with the hot and cold and future faking nonsense to thinking maybe this time things will be different. I wanted out, but I didn’t want out yet.
    He knows I’m on the brink of telling him off and walking away, but he won’t discard me. He just keeps future faking me telling me he’ll make time to talk with me, but then is always super busy week after week. Why does he bother with stringing me along when he knows I’m at the end of my rope with how he’s treating me? I need to be stronger than he thinks I am and just walk away.

    1. Fiona says:

      I walked away this week. I told him I can’t do this anymore and cut communication. He said it was sad but ok…. but he’s actually happy, I’m sure, as I was interfering too much with his current golden period with the new IPSS.

      Walk away. We will struggle but get out stronger xxx

  13. 12345 says:

    HG, I thought I had closure by being ugly to him when he contacted me. Well, I looked at his and his wife’s FB page thru a friends account today. I got to see two pictures with his children and eight grandchildren. Hundreds of people commented that they are the most wonderful family on earth. So beautiful and wonderful. I feel completely less than. It really set me back emotionally. Is he happy? He looks like the happiest man alive and his wife looks like the happiest woman alive. It makes me feel sick and unworthy😞

    1. gabbanzobean says:

      12345, you are not alone here. I see pics on FB of my Narc too. Not many with his wife and family just him and his child. But hundreds of likes, comments, praises, the facade of a perfect life. It sickens me too. It’s all fake, all of it. I think that is what makes it so nauseating. I think it is the fact that other people believe it when it is all a facade.

      1. 12345 says:

        Okay, I’m gonna say this even though it sounds completely infantile…IT’S NOT FUCKING FAIR!!!!!!!!!!!!! I want his tiny empire along with his tiny dick to fall so bad!!!

    2. NarcAngel says:

      12345
      You know that they dont do happy. You also know that a pic on FB is a carefully placed snapshot of a moment in time and does not tell the whole story. FB is a stage and everyone is just waiting for their close-up. None of it is real, and going on to look at pictures while adding your own narrative is a form of self abuse. Stop it.

      1. 12345 says:

        That was a firm and much needed scolding. I know better than to look and proved it all over again. It really can set you back. Thanks, NarcAngel😘

      2. RecoveringNarcoholic says:

        12345 — Narc Angel is right. It’s a battle I have to fight every day — NOT to look at my replacement’s FB page and see all the comments about how happy they are and how happy everyone is for her. It’s a form of emotional cutting. It’s so hard to stop doing it — but so necessary if we’re ever going to recover. When you get the urge to look, distract yourself immediately. Walk away from your phone or tablet or computer. Walk away — period. You can do it!

  14. gabbanzobean says:

    I have a question on the following paragraph when you say…

    “The IPSS does not experience the standard template of seduction-devaluation-discard and this is why many commentators fail to explain our behaviours effectively to someone who is an IPSS. The narcissistic dynamic is different. The reason for this is that you are effectively placed in limbo. You may not be good enough to be promoted to the position of primary source but you are too valuable to be cast to one side and thus the dance continues for as long as you will allow it without wounding or challenging us.”

    If a Narc says he will “never leave his wife” (IPPS), is it possible for one or more IPSS to be in limbo for months or years? Or would they basically become DLSS’ instead?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Correct. There are some IPSS that occupy a form of purgatory for years.

      1. Mary says:

        HG, what’s the longest you’ve kept an IPSS or DSL in purgatory?

    2. Mary says:

      Gabbanzobean,

      My narc was always open that he won’t leave his wife, and that he sexts others, but he said he’d never felt as close to any of them as he did with me. That they were just fun, but we had something real. Nothing he’d leave his family for (and I didn’t expect him to), but that it was something beyond just sexting. He said “I can’t find this with just anyone. I need someone I want, who I trust,. Someone I’m attracted to and who gives a damn, and I find that with you.”

      So with that said… one of the last convos I had with him, he told me he had just sexted with a woman he’s talked to for 13 years. He said he’d met her once and she blew him, but that he didn’t trust to meet again because she would want more. Now honestly… Is she going to have an 13-year thing with him, and him NOT be telling her all the same shit he’s said to me? I don’t think so, especially not if she wants “more.” I wasn’t sure if he was triangulating to make me more insecure (he loved to do that). If he was telling the truth, then they can maintain an IPSS or a DLS for more than a decade. It really can drag on and waste years of a person’s life, if there is a hope or expectation for them to be anything other than a toy.

      You deserve WAY more than that.

  15. AgeLess says:

    Hate this, as in.. the feelings evoked. He is everything to me and I still have no idea what I was to him. All I know is that I am nothing to him now. God narcs suck so bad.

    I need time travel so I can go back and change what I did that day I met him. Even talking about time travelling irritates me because the two narcs who ruined my life used to go on and on about it. Perhaps a good idea going back to the day their parents were doing the deed and sabotage so they’re never conceived in the first place.

    1. Fiona says:

      I feel the same… goddamn work event which allowed me to meet him. Why can’t I return in time and not attend it :/

  16. Lisa says:

    I think I was secondary source but not to another partner or partners but to his male friends , football and drinking , the couple thing is secondary (but constant in the background for if and when suits him) with constant contact via text/phone to check what I’m doing (which is preferably nothing but on hand to respond to his messages) I don’t think he actually likes the company of women and prefers hard core drinking brain dead mates like himself. I actually knew where he was all the time but I think he enjoyed the fact that he chose his mates over me or chose to sit at home alone videoing whatsapping me, as he knew he was always choosing to not spend time with me which was deliberate and he knew it upset me . The girlfriend is the facade and makes him look normal and also if attractive makes people look at him like he’s able to get a certain standard of woman when actually he prefers porn and masterbation to a sexual relationship and this has been the case with other long term girlfriends also. It also allows him to constantly go to his mother and sister for sympathy regarding his dysfunctional relationships that are never his fault .
    Sam Vaknin actually describes significant partners and wives as secondary as a constant in the narcissists life as a ongoing fuel source and describes the primary narcissist sources as being other things whether it be jobs hobbies etc
    Do you agree with any of this HG ?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      His friends would not be primary sources. You were triangulated with other people and interests.

      1. Lisa says:

        Ah Ha thank you !! I’m so dumb I didn’t see it as actual triangulation but I knew he did it to make me see how unimportant I was to him and deliberately hurt me with choosing anything over time spent with girlfriend but I also didn’t ever think it was another woman. This makes the girlfriend always be trying to see more of him, makes the girlfriend insecure , gives him the upper hand , makes him feel important . When actually he’s a little twat

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Your last sentence amused me.

    2. geyserempath says:

      Lisa..did we date the same man? lol. I, too, was an IPSS and was triangulated with other women on FB or his male buddies. Mine also was more interested in football and would call me once a week when he was drunk. He was impotent, and enjoyed masturbating to porn, but would try to engage with me when I visited him once a week. Everything in his life was more important than time with me. Mine will email or text a reply if I initiate the first round and I am undergoing a silent treatment on Facebook at the moment while he interacts with all his female friends. Mine doesn’t have another IPSS, only me. His mother is his IPPS and therefore he doesn’t feel the need to have a girlfriend.

      1. Scarlet says:

        Hi geyserempath, strange how they can be so similar but I guess that’s going to be the case to a certain extent although HG is the only one that breaks it down in such detail and they don’t all fit the grandiose nonsense that is the thoughts of many people . Where does yours live ? Just in case 🤔 Lisa

        1. geyserempath says:

          Hi Scarlett. They really are similar, aren’t they? Mine lives in Florida, what about yours?

          1. Scarlet says:

            Hi geyserempath, that’s a relief my idiot is in England !! 😀

  17. anon says:

    Thankyou, you always provide such intricate details, I’m always shocked that I know exactly what you are talking about but I did not pick up on it at the time. Those little red flags, that get lost amongst the other dramas going on. And it’s in the back of my mind, those questions not yet formed. Those things that I didn’t have time to realise until now. You give us the words, and make it tangible and real. Thankyou

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are welcome Anon.

  18. Miss Teri says:

    His ‘Very’ Worst ‘Nightmare’! Never again will allow’ Anything like ‘HIm’ in my presence! Narc ‘Buster’ Great Grandmother. Zero ‘Tolerance’!…Thanks Sir HG Tudor for keeping me ‘Strong’! God Bless You. Just wish I could roll it all back to make you ‘Innocent’ Again. My Apologies!…Loving You Sir HG Tudor…

  19. 12345 says:

    From the great lyrics of Edwin Starr “absolutely nothin…say it again!”

    1. Sunniva says:

      Or…if we look at it from a different perspective, we are everything to them. Not in the way that we value the bonding with someone we love or care about, but what would they do if the world ran out of empaths:) They do depend on the daily doze of fuel. A narcissist ensnaring another narcissist does not keep the fuel-tank full long enough:)

      1. 12345 says:

        Empaths are everything to them but every empath is disposable so “we” or “I” mean absolutely nothing to him since there is another empath standing right next to me that he can ensnare and discard me for. I made the mistake of thinking I was everything to the narcissist and that won’t ever happen again. His toilet would be more accurately described as everything to him than I am.

      2. Sunniva says:

        Good for you😃💪🏻
        And I totally agree with you. Please excuse my bad norwegian-english for not beeing able to express my self correctly. We are all objects of fuel to them and easily replaced.
        I was simply stating that they need us much more then we need them, because of their constant seek after souls to pray on. So I just needed that perspective for my own empowerment today☺️

        I wish you a great day😊

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