Poll – What part of understanding the narcissistic dynamic do you struggle with the most?
It is a fact that much of the narcissistic dynamic is engineered to keep you in confusion. If you remain confused you provide more fuel and you remain paralysed, making it easier for us to control. Nevertheless, even when information and knowledge is provided to victims, they still struggle to comprehend certain parts of the dynamic. Sometimes it is because it just does not make sense, sometimes it is because they understand why it happens but cannot understand why someone still has to behave like that.
The poll contains some of the more common elements of the dynamic that people struggle with. You can choose up to three (ensure you pick them at the same time before entering your votes) and please do expand in the comments as to why this remains so difficult for you to understand, or if your reason is not there, please explain further in the comments section.
Thank you for participating.
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This is a difficult one bc all of these at one point i did not understand but thx to you HG and the narcissism info i understand so much more than i once did.
I chose two …why greaters understand their behaviour and still behave the way they do and this is in conjunction to you HG bc ive not known another greater thats been as self aware as you. Not only self aware but you understand people and moralistic whats right and wrong more than your average person does. I have to remind myself that this is a disorder and you can be aware and understand and still be a slave to the maladaptive thoughts and addictions. Its hard to break this when its who youve become. You get relief from certain reaponses and reactions and you go with what works. I do get that but its still very difficult to seperate the two when i read these blogs and to read them id think you were a psychologist or even an empath if it werent for the things youve done and im sure those are just the tip of the iceberg.
As for my own narc situation …i chose why cant the narcissist change which is similiar to my above paragraph but in my situation its the jeyll and hyde behviour thats so troubling. Why cant he change and stop this? Well after reading your work hg im understanding why. Hes very much codependant on the fuel and keeping up the way he looks at himself. Still its upsetting to be in a golden state where he seems to be letting go and being himself only to distance himself and turn off the closeness in many ways. Our last disengagement when he contacted me i told him id rather be just friends or be intimate but not this teeter totter of close then distant. Its especially difficult bc he is there despite the distant phase so we go into friend mode. Its so confusing but then i dont know what hes got going on besides me. Maybe he doesnt have enough to go around. It upsets me tho bc id rather just be friends than have him switch back to wanting to be intimate. Its not natural and very dysfunctional. I think its the whole strawberry ice cream analogy coming into play. I get shelved when hes sick of my flavor 🙁 i am caitious now with my emotions when he does switch back to golden days bc i know its cycle and itll be back to friendship. Its the contrast they need bc they bore very easily and they need to “feel”.
i wanted to know why someone can understand themselves, know they are acting in ultimately self-destructive ways that make them hate themselves and blame others, etc.. and still not be able to change. i also want to know more about the paranoia.
this is a term that might be useful to apply:
*Egosyntonic – is a term referring to behaviors, values, and feelings that are in harmony with or acceptable to the needs and goals of the ego, or consistent with one’s ideal self-image.
—i still think that someone with NPD/ASPD resists analysis and deeper self-reflection, even if they are self-aware, self-awareness is also interpretation which is selective, etc.. this blog is informative about the illusions someone like HG can have, while being clever and skilled at carrying out ruthless goals. obviously certain defense mechanisms prevent change, but how can an NPDer be motivated to leave their comfort zone and accept more nuanced perspectives?
Peace out
You make good points. Certainly we all often fight against self-reflection that produces truths we don’t wish to acknowledge. It is probably much harder for narcs to be truly self-reflective because of their egos and sense of self-importance.
The motivation to change is probably triggered in narcs just like in the rest of us – by being made aware that change is in their own self-interest. In my experience this seems to happen more often when a third party or new circumstance forces them to reevaluate and acknowledge that changing their behavior will best benefit them. Certainly intelligent narcissists will change their behaviors when they see advantages to change.
Narcissists have no ego they did not develop one that’s the problem or their brains were unable to develop one . Which ever you believe (nature/nurture) narcissists are egoless that’s the problem. If you really understand what ego is , it’s there to develop us as rounded emotionally , they are egoless in the true sense . They did not have / or develop their egos
Oh and number one…funny how I missed that one completely. I still think about him constantly.. which is ridiculous and I’m aware of that. I’ve just come to terms with that fact that I might always will. I just choose to not let it affect me like it once did. I am in control now.
Hi HG, I wanted more than three
I chose can’t understand why they need fuel , I have read the book and all the posts but I still cannot understand the psychology behind this because for this disorder they operate without emotions and are devoid of them so why do they need them. I still feel it is a contradiction.
Still hard to believe he felt absolutely nothing
Why they can’t change when it’s explained to them and they can see the cycles I think their brains are different ?
The 4th one that I wanted to choose is the lack of understanding of narcissism. This is so big for me because despite the hurt and upset I have been through over this relationship and despite wanting him to be normal and wanting it to work and despite still getting over it and struggling with ignoring hoovers, it’s more the bigger picture that is shocking to me . I will survive this relationship and I left once I was sure of what he was and I’ve ignored everything.
But learning about this has been unsettling to me, that this exists that there are humans out there walking around like this. Yet in other ways it explains so many things about the world and how some humans behave .
Once you know you can never not know and I see it every where now and it is disturbing to me.
When I think of him it revolts me , I was only ever in love with the idea of him the real him is disgusting I find it creepy .
I watched a documentary about the 2 famous brothers in USA that shot their parents . It made total sense to me in a way that it never would have 1 year ago .
The father was def a narcpath maybe the mother was N or at the very least a stepford wife. They created 2 narcpath sons, some part nature and definitely a lot of nuture.
One of the brothers while in prison said he felt like a ghost living amongst human beings
One juror said 2 monster parents created 2 bombs and the bombs exploded
Definitely the need for fuel…and that the seduction was an illusion. I can normally put myself in someone else’s shoes and understand but I cannot seem to comprehend the need for “fuel”. As far as the seduction being an illusion, fake, not real..is a tough one because even though I know now that it was an illusion it’s the one thing I refuse to accept. it’s the only thing I have to hold onto from that roller coaster of a relationship.
I struggle the most with not knowing what exactly a Narcissist was, and did not want to believe he could be one. It was too painful. I am ashamed to admit this, but, I have been married to him for almost 55 years. We have been in BATTLE, I guess you could say, almost 3 years. As I have looked back, I see it all, of course. Really I was always trying to reason with him in every way I could. And to think he really never loved me is tearing me apart. I mean we’re talking most all my LIFE! The evil that I have seen and heard from him the last several years is beyond me. And to believe I could have taken it that long, yes, it makes me ashamed. And then to try and believe he doesn’t want to change, or believe there is anything wrong with him! Yes, we have children, all grown. And we are living together as I write this, he has control of everything!! As I am sure you know, no one knew what was going on, only that it was all my fault. At my age now, there are so few choices. However, I will leave soon, even if he gets everything! I am TIRED. Please forgive me, for taking up so much of your time. And thank you for being so helpful in all your writings. I have learned a great deal from them.
Thank you again,
Sincerely, Charlotte
Wanted to pick about 5 from the list. Vote sex, seduction, and positive feelings werent real. But should have picked why I can’t stop thinking about him really instead of sex as fuel.
I guess we all struggle to stop thinking of the Narc whether it be questioning in our minds why, or feeling hate, or anger or wishing for the golden period.
Always on my mind.
“That the positive feelings for me were not real”
This was the most difficult to deal with.
It is unfair, cruel and cunning.
It happens at the beginning when there is no need for such lies and forms the “relationship” in a way you cannot see what’s coming.
After that, here comes the cognitive dissonance, and the party is started! Ole!
For me, I was confident about myself. So I really couldn’t understand why he looses his chances to change his whole life to be better. I loved him in real and I was about to give him all he needed. But only when he’s sincere and his love is true.
Most hard things for me was, I really didn’t have any problems he accused me, I didn’t do anything wrong to him. If we decided to end our relationship, the party of loosing a lot was him, not me. But he behaves mean and really unstable way, too many lies and excuses, too many cheating with low levels girl which not worthy to loose all things he would get if he could be honest to me. Now I read and learned a lot, so I could guess why he behaved like that. But still, I heard a lot about narcissists are intelligent, even though they’re lack of genuine emotions, but loosing me is definitely his losses and he would know and I learned that narcissist only care what they need, wealthy, success, mostly material things, I don’t understand why he couldn’t keep his best supplier if he was at least intelligent.
I think my ex is narcissistic sociopath, and I stayed 8month in that relationship. I found I’m very strong Empath, and I discarded him bcoz of his not being accountable and honest. And I was sick and suffered really hard time around 4 months with extreme confusion and cognitive dissonance. Still I feel I can’t trust anyone.
The most difficulty I had was the level of self-delusion (believing their own lies in the face of evidence) and that they “cannot change”. I know there is no cure, though I am a firm believer in one’s ability to grow in certain areas when motivated and presented with tools for change along with the motivation. That is the issue, though, when there is no guilt or accountability, there is no motivation. Because I have guilt and a feeling of accountability, holding the narcissistic perspective for any length of time is hard for me. Thus, my need to protect myself from gas lighting, as with that salami slicing technique, even the strongest are worn down.
Hi indy… thats a good point and one i have to drill into my head is the lack of empathy and therefore guilt. Without that empathy theres no motivation out of being a good person only where it suits the narcissist will they. Motivation is the factor for change and lack of empathy kills that motivation in its tracks!
Hi NarcAffair,
Yeah, even though I know this logically, my heart wants to believe in hope and goodness in all and somehow I forget logic and need to remind myself over and over 😂
Hi indy…its amazing how our subconscious takes over and helps us forget key truths when we want to focus on what we want to focus on.
Lack of empathy that is imo the root cause to why they cant/wont change. If i lacked empathy then my perspective would be way different and id do what made sense to me.
Feeling a connection with someone which is just not real
It seems like the Narc never stops to “take stock” of where he is heading; that he remains in a desperate “loop” of fuel-seeking.
HG, I know you are in fact brilliant; that being said; how is it you can’t see that! You know intellectually how Narcs end up toward their later years. I KNOW you can put it all together!!!!!
THAT being said, The Beast is really on your side and wants the best for you. I know from experience how frightening it is to peek at him for a time.
Maybe by hearing from all of us, who feel alot of affection for you, just maybe we can give you the fuel you need, that can let you have longer and longer time periods of being open to the Beast.
Do you gather fuel from us? Has our fuel helped you to maintain more longevity in your current relationship? (I know you are ticklish!)
Anyway, can you try and set a timer at ten seconds, and for a month, expose yourself just that, and let yourself lessen the ring separating you from the beast. Then next month, up that time to fifteen seconds.
In the book, To Kill A Mockingbird, by Harper Lee, (I know you know this classic,) Atticus sends Scout and her brother to read out loud to a lady in just this manner (although the progression of time went more quickly). Later in the story, we learn that the lady was weaning herself off of heroin, because she did not want to die addicted to the stuff. (Another kind of beast!)
I do not want to see you die alone, sadly, and worn out, as seems to be the fate of your kind!!!!!!!
How is it, that knowing how you got your start WASN’T your fault, isn’t enough for ya to realize there is no shame in letting the Beast come through!? You remind me of another literary character, Ann Rice’s Lastat. You will not burn up to a crisp (he would in the sunshine of day, for he is a vampire,) by letting the beast in!!
Well, Thank you for asking for moments. HG, you are a very sweet guy.
Cheers!
Sincerely,
Pam Bondi.
P. S. My regards to your sister!
P. P. A. By “loop, ” I meant, to go through the endless succession of women, the same 3 phases, over and over again!
OK, Cheers!!
Hello Pam,
1. Re Fuel please see https://narcsite.com/about/
2. Has the fuel gathered here allowed longevity re my IPPS. No, it is not significant enough to play a part with regard to a material impact with regards to fuel.
3. I do not want to see you die alone, sadly, and worn out, as seems to be the fate of your kind!!!!!!! – thank you for your concern. Everybody dies alone, nobody crosses from life to death with you and I do not fear death. Nor will I be worn out, I am superior to my kind.
4. I understand your questions but you appear to be confusing the Beast with the Creature.
5. I know how some narcissists end up in their later years (see the two articles Time and The Narcissist (of which there will be more) but please understand that is not a fate which will befall me.
Pam,
U stated: “My regards to your sister!”
Does this mean u know hg’s sister? Do u know hg? Are u an ex of hg’s?!
H G ….. In your opinion, what type of connection/clash/contrast/ situation would happen between a greater narcissist (such as yourself) and a higher empath? Would that be like the Batman/Joker dichotomy, as in an unstoppable force meets an immovable object? I’m curious what your thoughts are on such a meeting of strong minds. If you’ve already posted about it please give a link. And thank you.
Hello Tab, could you clarify what you mean by a higher empath as that is not a phrase I use.
Hi HG. As in an empath on an equivalent scale of a greater narcissist. One who is comparably as aware and as skilled.
“Higher” means somebody with HIGHER inteligence, I guess…
Like higher MRN
P.S.
Batman and Joker?
I see no empath there…
Higher=Upper
Hi HG. What I mean to say is an empath of great ability, comparable, in a juxtaposed sense, to a narcissist of great ability. In a hypothetical and socio-scientific sense, what sort of encounter would that be in your opinion?
As I understand from your comments and those of Salome you are asking how the dynamic would play out between an intelligent empath of great ability and I as a Greater Elite. Without wishing to be difficult, an empath of “great ability” is rather an amorphous concept. The issue of intelligence is one which can be applied to different schools of empath and it is not so much the intelligence which is the governing factor in terms of the dynamic. If you could be specific in terms of the school of empath (who is intelligent) then I would be in a better position to answer.
Hmmm, I am seeing the point on both sides of this question and trying to get some clarity.
Narcissists are categorized based on level of control of aggression and insight, right? Can there be a dull-minded greater, ever? Can there be a cerebral upper-lesser? (I am guessing no). If not, then you are also rating on intellect too, right?
Now, with the non-narcissists, you categorize on level of empathy and narcissistic traits in balance. No intellect or insight considered. (Am I correct?)
What about our level of aggression and our level of intellect and insight into our own issues? I know there are some super smart and super dull non-narcissists, for sure. Doesn’t this play a role on who is selected too? And would this be where the special traits come in?
So, in essence, we are apples and dragonflies.
P.S. HG….about the “I am real” nonsense. Why does he say that? An underlying inkling that something is wrong with him and that he is not really real? I know you will likely say that this is all said for fuel but some of the shit that comes out of his mouth sounds to me like he knows what he is! Is this some sort of coincidence?
It is the desire to be taken seriously.
Hi G, mine said that all the time
“I’m Real” to
To begin with i didn’t think too much about it and just thought he meant he was a straight talking person .
Of course this is laughable under the circumstances of me then realising he was a narcissist.
Every time he said this 2 thoughts came into my head
1- he knows he’s completely fake feels it on some level so says this all the time to reaffirm that no one else has noticed
Or
2- He/ all narcissists are so unbelievably hypocritical and truly believe , the whole world is full of fake people and they are the only real one
But I do believe the fact that he said this way too much had some link to his mental state
He would critise everyone for much less than he himself was doing . He’s the least real person I’ve ever met in my life
I told him this when I broke up with him , he was speechless then started with nonsense world salad 🙄🙄🙄
HG? Any thoughts
I voted for: them not knowing what they are (the mid range), the feelings not being real and not being able to stop thinking of them.
My MRN made excuses for everything from cheating on his wife to why he “disappeared” for weeks on end. Excuses for those things being “Well I think the reason why I have sex with a lot of people is because that is how I express my affection. I tend to express my affection very deeply which is why I have had so many sexual partners. Most of them were one time occurrences, but you were different I guess”….and then “But I love my wife so much, I will never leave her. I would die without her”.
And the disappearing acts. “I withdraw when I get depressed. It comes and it goes. My feelings for you have not changed”.
They really have no idea and just keep making excuses. And the real mindfuck is that they (well my MRN anyway) was so polite and charming and good mannered throughout the entire thing. Mr. Piano Church Man Façade. Mr. Polite. Mr. “I am the nicest guy you’ll ever meet Gabrielle”…
So that about covers them not knowing what they are and the feelings not being real. Oh and I have mentioned as well that he used to frequently say things to me like “My name is _____ and I am damned real!”…. that makes me wonder if he has a level of self awareness that he is not real. Because he is not real! So why reiterate that he is real, you know what I mean?
And finally the “never being able to get him off my mind”…..that is the worst of the 3 answers I chose.
Add a fourth to my vote: why others just cannot see the narcissist for who he really is, why they believe his lies.
And a fifth: why he cannot see his own truth of the horrid things said and done. Why he is so adamant with the lies and illogical fallacies.
My ex is, I’m almost certain, a lesser to mid range. He used what he knew hurt me the most: illogic, lies, neglect, withholding affection. Among others. So he must be lesser to mid correct?
Mental abuse is still abuse, though it leaves no visible marks. And self defense of one’s sanity should not be condemnable.
I voted: They don’t know what they are, the need for fuel and using sex to gain fuel. Theoretically I understand NPD, but in practice I understand very little. The thought that I was just an appliance is hard to wrap my head around, and the idea that Narcy doesn’t know what he is when I used to get the strong impression he knew he had maladaptive behaviour. What I do understand is narcs are emotionally stunted and stuck at around the age of 10 year-olds and that serves me well.
I chose “why the Narcissist can’t change.” I grew up in a household where we were taught everyone was created in the image of God. Narcissist abuse has shook up my reality, and it blows my mind that some people live and die abusers and have no potential.
He knew he was struggling with deep issues but chose to do nothing about it with statements like: ” It’s your responsibility not to upset me, I’m not going to change “.
I still don’t know if the choice of ignoring the situation and transferring responsibility was due to low emotional maturity or whether it’s a symptom of the condition or the one I fear the most- it’s a conscious choice to behave like a violent abuser. Perhaps it’s in fact all three? He had the capacity to be witty, creative and smart and it is hard for me to understand why of all the things one could choose to do and be in ones life, one would choose the path of being a violent abuser.
What confounds me the most, is the Narcissist’s ability to develop the same tools of control and manipulation (gaslighting!!!, silent treatment, triangulation, devaluation, etc…) used by most Narcissist’s, while being unaware of what they are (a Lesser or Mid-Range Narcissist) or why they behave as they do to gather fuel. There must exist a “secret” handbook given to the early developing Narcissist…
Great poll HG!
The way to look at this Kimi is not to see it as the narcissist opts to use the same manipulations as other narcissists, but it is the fact that we use such similar manipulations which attracts the label of narcissist.
I think the most confusing for me is why some are satisfied with low-grade fuel. I was discarded in favor of losers, in other words. I have a hard time understanding how someone with no goals, no education, no intelligence, multiple kids out of wedlock, mousy-looking, with totally generic interests could satisfy his insatiable fuel level and impress his friends. Also, I don’t understand why such a somatic player who thrives on all this attention would want to have a kid out of wedlock with the above person.
To me, this seems to only further his debts, make it harder for him to prowl about now that he has ‘responsibilities’. I get the idea of ‘oh you’re such a great dad’ and feeding off that, but that is piddle shit compared to having girls line up at his bed, begging for his dick.
I just don’t see how he could seek any advantages from such a chick. A bimbo model, ok, I get that. But not the above.
To finally get to use one of my favorite Tudorisms…maybe she was a “Panic Pick” *snicker*.
Fine, I get it…new and different equals fresher and superior fuel…coupled with the negative fuel garnered by insulting a predescessor with this unveiling of The Bride of Chuckie…small wonder they take the Panic Pick.
Yea! HG, what’s up with that? I don’t get that either! Thanks for posting Bibi 🙂
THIS. HG pls break this down for us.
This misses completely the most fundamental point – empathic traits. The comment, whilst understandable, is a common response (why has he picked her over me, when she has no prospects/looks/money etc) . Do read “Have You Seen Who He Is With”? and also Sitting Target.
It’s possible Kq means how did the individual make it to the Primary capacity rather than a DLS or SS source as you have written if the right character traits are there but other factors such as status level, social circles, appearance, etc., isn’t a higher standard, you would not promote them to be a Primary. Just speculating.
Hi HG! Great poll! For me, it’s the devastation that none of it was real. I mean the level of deception is beyond anything I could ever imagine. I really struggle with that. What I’ve discovered in my recovery process so far is that we attract each other because we mirror to one another our deepest wounds. You come into our lives to make those wounds super apparent. You will keep appearing in our lives til we finally acknowledge these wounds, accept them, and heal them. This is a very difficult and painful process.
I remember the pain of my tears with my Nex, during devaluation etc, and knowing the pain was exactly the same pain I felt as a child being ignored and emotionally abused. I just wasn’t conscious. The fear of emotional annihilation was paramount. My God, I clung to him for dear life… In a way, I’m grateful for the wake up call. After a life full of narcs, it’s going to be fun to zone into my Empathic traits and see how useful they will be 🙂
Why people do not understand the disorder is my #1 choice and the #2 why can’t the narc change. The brain is so powerful and I think you can re-wire if you work long enough and hard enough. I understand most are not capable but perhaps I am giving credit where it is not due. I have to stop thinking that others are like me.
The most difficult thing to understand for me is…I have these memories from my childhood with my father and brother (the happy ones I mean). The hardest part is fearing that those memories don’t mean anything to them. Especially with my younger brother, considering how HG described how a narcissist is made, not born. I almost wish I could go through every happy memory we have together and ask him one by one “Did THAT one mean anything to you? Anything other than positive fuel, I mean.”
This is weighing a lot on my mind because my father said something this past weekend that basically confirmed what he is beyond a reasonable doubt. After making me go on yet ANOTHER huge and scary water slide with him at the water park and watching me scream the whole way down (with a grin that grew wider with each scream), I asked him why he didn’t just go with my brother who enjoys them. He explained that the way I really REACT makes it so much more fun for him. He basically described the need for negative fuel in layman’s terms. (Argh…does he KNOW? That question will probably haunt me for the rest of my life.)
Hey HG…I know your childhood was pretty much hell, but before you seized the power and became what you are, you loved your family members, right? So…when you shut down emotionally, did you just…stop loving them? (Well, except Lennox I guess. You still seem to care about him in your way.)
Shit, I’m actually crying writing this. The thought that my brother could’ve loved me when we were little, then just…gave all that up for power and control is so freaking painful. I guess he was just doing what he felt he had to do, and I doubt it was personal…but it still feels like a betrayal, you know? Like I wasn’t enough for him. Like he decided to leave me…emotionally I mean.
I sound ridiculous and pathetic right now, I know that, so I’m just going to stop writing before I embarrass myself more than I already have.
Why be embarrassed when you are conveying your viewpoint? I have no recollection about the feeling of loving somebody.
Thanks for answering. 🙂
Why be embarrassed? It wasn’t expressing my opinion, it was getting emotional while doing it. 21 years with my father and 14 years with my brother have shown that if that happens, it doesn’t matter what was said, the response is the same-making fun of me for getting so upset and/or trying to see if they can provoke me into getting more so. The only way they’ll actually listen to what was said and respond to THAT is if it is said in a neutral tone. I guess so many years of that made me think of expressing anger/sadness/pain openly as something that’s embarrassing and bad.
Its very frustrating knowing all this info and knowing i dont want any part of this but he still creeps in my thoughts. Also why does it hurt so much knowing all this and why its hard to accept another human being can be so manipulative and well no other word to describe it but straight up evil. To make you think they truly care and then they ultimately try to destroy everything good about you. Its crushing to know my feelings were true and i was played for a fool for so long. Its hard to understand how one can live like this. It must be mentally exhausting to keep up with all the lies and all the people they are talking to. Nothing about this situation sits well with me, however i have successfully moved on but those thoughts still creep in my head more often than id like. To sum it up these people are a total mind fuck and the damage caused by them takes one strong person to just move on. It makes me sad that they will never experience love or anything associated with love and compassion towards another human.
My ex narc wished me a happy birthday. He’s disengaged and put me on the shelf. Why bother! When I’m trying hard to cross the ocean… It just brought up more whys…
Ex Mistress,
My MRN did the same to me with the happy birthday nonsense. Again with this Narc textbook stuff. Do they all follow the same book?
I’m expecting something on my birthday which is coming up in about 3 weeks.
Feel trepidation. Will be a hoover attempt. I bet he will say something like ‘shall pop over to give you your birthday orgasm’. Ugh! 😣
My biggest issue by far is to grasp how the narc can withdraw from his own child over and over again, never explain himself, make the worst possible choices affecting his child etc, and most of all how to handle him, as my love of no contact and my love for my child (who wants to get to know his fun dad better) tear me apart, e.g. father’s day, xmas, any visit really. Any contact = guaranteed manipulation.
Something went wrong, I voted, it wasn’t loading, I voted again, there was a message that I had already voted, but the results were never shown to me. Anyway, I chose the answer about the devaluation (it is a pity that someone cannot feel happiness and let it last for as long possible, I understand it but at the same time I don’t). Also the “cannot stop thinking about him” one- I have certain explanations about this, but it bothers me that he is not completely erased from my thoughts- and finally the answer about all seduction being an illusion: I think that’s what’s bothering most of us. It is also the reason why we cannot let go easily. When they return, we keep looking once more about a proof that it was worth it in the first place. It is hard to think that all the pain was for nothing. And that we were fooled.
Even my poll is gas lighting
Ha ha ha!
😝
Ha ha. You’ve got a great sense of humour HG, something my exN never demonstrated.
Indeed I have and thank you.
What poll HG ? I didn’t see a poll are you sure about that ?
Nice try.
Really, what is this poll you keep speaking of, HG?
Have you spoken to anyone about this strange belief?
Yes it is where I cut the horns off, so mind how you go!
Ha, ha, HG! Loved the farming reference!! Mama raised pure-polled Simmentals.
**Pats my horns on my head, keeping them safe. Shines them, just in case**
Oh, come now, master gas lighter HG…let us play a little? It’s healing to bitch about such a horrible game, no?
**Bows to the matador.**
HG I’ve really no idea what your talking about . Have you seen your good doctors lately ? If not I think you should . I’m only saying this because I care about you .. Obviously . 🙂
Won’t work with me.
Hahahaha NSS! Virtual 👊
Hahah.. Thank you MLA .
It was just a bit of fun 🙂
I see Indy & Narc Affair joined in too !
I hope your’e having a fab weekend x
I dont see any poll? 🤔
Believing the positive feelings were never real was definitely my biggest hurdle. It still is. I’m not sure I’ll ever get over that part. I mean, I’m so great, right? The best dirty little secret on the planet, right? No, I wasn’t. Not to him.
I just can’t seem to shake how convincing he was. I think about actors who have a sex scene that is so passionate and convincing and then they go home to their husbands and wives and don’t think about it again. It was all mechanics to them. Necessary to get a 12 million dollar paycheck.
HG is helping with this peace but I still think to myself “how can that be possible…how???”
Same here. It’s so painful to know that it was all fake. And salt is poured into the wound when you see them doing the same things with the new source and hear them saying the same things to her.
An inner rage burns when I imagine them together. At the moment I have such hatred for him and also her, although she is an unwitting victim too.
This is a public health crisis/criminal justice problem that is epidemic and only getting worse. Where are all the experts? Why isn’t this mysterious malady in our everyday vocabulary like: depression, cancer, aids, or opioid addiction?
I’ve written about this very fact elsewhere here…
In the UK, the only professionals that know about NPD are qualified doctors but they aren’t experts in NPD, that’s down to psychiatrists. Other mental health workers are woefully ignorant of NPD, I have spoken to three counsellors and even the best one had never heard of NPD. It’s scary that I had to explain to them what it is and the effect exN had on me. It’s a ridiculous situation for victims to find themselves in.
I absolutely agree with you on this Scout .
I’m in the UK too . If you dare mention NPD they look at you as if you’ve grown an extra head &/or completely deranged ..
I am currently in the process of learning why narcissists cannot change so I guess that was quite a pertinent one for me. I also picked why other people just do not understand what narcissism is. People seem to think I can just casually ask him to help out with our daughter when she’s ill or can’t go to nursery. And hardly anyone but me, and a handful of his closest friends who’ve seen through him, is concerned of the potential psychological damage he’s going to do to her.
When I first read this I thought, I wondered how I would pick three. Reading the options really helped me focus on what part of this consumed me the most.
Along with these mentioned, I am also disappointed that despite the red flags I did not run sooner. I consider myself a good judge of character but I fell for him hook, line and sinker. I still have a hard time believing he is this evil inside, and I struggle with the fact I was so vulnerable.
Aimee,
It was because you were so vulnerable that you were targeted. Sorry to say.
Aimee, the Jezebel demon is the same as narcissism. Once you study that, you will better understand the evil. The Jezebel spirit is one of the worst, …as HG has alluded to when mentioning “the creature.”. She is not only a demon but a principality. Evil to the core.
That hardest part is that narcs have no care in the world the damage they impose on another human beings life.. they have no heart and are the coldest people in the world.
My ex says I have to prove to him I am worthy.. hahaha he’s the one that treated me like shit and lied for months.. I got tired of it and left and yet I have prove?? These types of people just blow me away with their entitlement… they are not god..
he has messed with my heart, mind and soul.. I am trying to move forward and heal.. I struggle with acceptance that none of the golden days were real.. all fake… they are good actors
Christine
I think the reason they want us to constantly prove ourselves is because deep down they can never accept that we are not lying like they do. They don’t mean the things they say to us, why should we mean the things we say to them?
I’m not sure lessers or midrangers will ever really believe us. Greaters can, but it doesn’t really make sense to them. I remember being shocked when my exhusband told me he’d concluded that I never consciously hurt anyone. He said it like he knew it to be true, but it just seemed unbelievable that an intelligent person would be that way.
I still struggle with him being in my head everyday. I have worked hard to banish him from there, including following HG’s advice in Exorcism. Persistent little sod is still there. I also struggle to accept that the physical aspects of the relationship were not genuine on his part. Such a love fraud.
I wouldn’t say, that it confuses or struggles me. No.
But it is the cyberstalking and tricky attempts to steal my facebook’s password to get access to my private life. Why don’t ask me directly about my life, if so interested?
After a very messy split I have a 2.5 year old daughter to him. He has an injunction, he has been charged with stalking and has a suspended sentence if he contacts. He contacts almost daily with fat, ugly, your disgusting c@@t comments. I can’t get him charged as it will ruin his career. However the only thing worse than a narc is one with money! He claims his contacts are to see his child so why can’t he go to a solicitor and do it properly! One because supervised contact is beneath him!! But he breaks my heart every day with these comments. Apparently he has a new beau and it will last forever blah blah blah….. what have I ever done to him??? Apart from leave because he claimed he loved someone else!!!?? What the hell is going on 😢😢
Hello Mirelle, your confusion is evident given his continued malign hoovering of you. I recommend you consult with me because there is far more I can explain to you than through the comment section but I would state this :-
1. He will not go to the solicitor because he knows approaching you in this manner allows him to exert control and gain fuel;
2. The contacts are nothing to do with seeing the child, that is just the conduit to maintain a grip over you;
3. You need to appraise the methods by which he is able to contact you and reduce them;
4. If he has a new IPPS and he is rubbing your face in it whilst issuing malign hoovers there will be several reasons for this which I can expand on for you and also what you can do about them.
Why devaluation has to occur number 1 question in my mind.
I’ll never understand the need to emotionally/financially/physically destroy another person. Never.
It hurts like hell when we’d done nothing wrong…
Of course Ex Mistress, the definition of “wrong” is a matter of perspective in the narcissistic dynamic.
Everything is just a matter of opinion to a narc, isn’t it? Mine even have trouble with left and right, not to mention right and wrong!
No WS2 it is you of course that has trouble with left and right and right and wrong – we are correct!
I am well aware of that thinking! I have endured many tirades from making those type of mistakes. Lol!
Why I cannot stop thinking about him. He continues to be a 24/7 reel running in my mind. Probably because he was the love of my life from our youth. Probably because I contributed to what he is.
One question – if any time the Narcs hoover me in any form, I deliver a Narc wound consistently, will they eventually leave me alone, or at least think twice before trying.
I dont want to be the one to run away in fear…
Hello NP, this is part of the Hoover Execution Criteria. You would need to factor in the other aspects such as fuel level, obstacles, type of narcissist, ease of hoovering and other elements as well. In isolation if you wound the narcissist this will raise the hoover bar and make a hoover less likely to be executed BUT if there are other factors which lower it then the reality is that the issue of wounding has reduced impact on the question of whether a hoover will be executed.
My most difficult to come to terms with wasn’t on there. That some of them can believe their own lies. I find that scary and it totally alters how I think about the midrangers I know.
And I don’t mean lies like, “I’m a good person.”
I have a close friend who years ago her grandfather bought an old cedar chest at a yard sale and gave it to her. I was a witness. Later I was with her at church and another lady was talking about precious memories of deceased loved ones that old objects could bring back. My friend went into a long, totally believable story about precious things of her great grandmother that she had inherited in a cedar chest and how she cherished her loving childhood memories of her great grandmother whenever she looked at these items in the chest.
Now my friend had never met her great grandmother and that cedar chest had come from a yard sale. When I pointed these things out to her, she was quiet for a moment then said, “Well it could be true. No one can prove it was never her chest. I think it was.”
That’s the way this friend is. When she doesn’t like her reality, she just invents a new one. I can understand that part. Narcs lie all the time. What I can never understand, though, is how she can actually believe her own lies. I always thought she was an exception with mental problems, but apparently this is common in lessers and mids.
I just always assumed all narc lies were deliberate to “further their personal agenda” as my exhusband would say. Now that brings up so many memories of ridiculous things my mother and others would say to me. Over the years I had assumed it was gas lighting to try to make me think I was crazy. Now I wonder how many times they actually did believe the crap they were saying? It really makes me think.
Maybe this is why some tell the same stories repeatedly every so often. So as to reinforce the false reality.
Tab
Maybe. Goodness knows they love the tell the same stories over and over and over.
Makes me think of the article where HG got so angry at the IP who rolled her eyes and looked bored. I learned as a child to always be looking down with a small smile whenever one of mine was retelling a story. 😊
yes
Hi HG. This is an interesting poll, but one can have a completely different response based on the type of relationship with the N (i.e. an ex-lover, former colleague / boss, parent). My biggest struggle continues to be the “appliance” comparison.
I think the demons that haunt the narc haunt us once we fall in love with them. Breaking us doesn’t free us from the darkness. I believe it locks us in in some cases even more. So i don’t know why it was never real, why he can’t change, why he devalues me every week, etc, but in the end, he’s going to kill me with his hatred. I literally have tumors now. The obsession to make it work, to be submissive enough for him, to obey enough, to please him, to do everything right, is all demonic. I need freedom or I’ll literally kill myself on accident. And he’s told me he would smash my face in, so, there’s that lol
I don’t know if it helps, but for me, reading HG Tudor’s blog, was liberating. Keep reading and you will find the answers. Then you will find the strength you need to free yourself from the hook. I have two photos pined in my refrigerator. The one of the man body and the toddler head, and the giraffe with the knob neck. Both as reminders of what I am dealing with. It is difficult to accept their way of thinking but it is necessary if you want to get out. I wish you all the best.
Thank you Malo.
I voted for why I can’t stop thinking about him … but the worst part that I still don’t get is his electronic messaging, sweet tender words and still NOT want to sit down and once and for all give me my damn CLOSURE!!!!
My logic knows why but my emotional side will never ever ever understand where the man I lived with and loved went??!!?! Soooo bizarre!!!
I struggle with not being able to fix him, being the tenacious proven fixer that I am and he knows of.
I struggle with NC like it is suffocation from lack of oxygen despite knowing if he wanted to be contact he would – and when he isn’t he is in contact with others. Still knowing this I wait for crumbs……………..and wait……………and wait whilst going further own the rollercoaster slope. And then a one sentence arrives of nothingness and I start to go up again. He has become my drug of choice and I can’t block – through the NEED I harbour to know IF he has tried to contact me. Everything after devaluation begins is a the hardest struggle. Its the not knowing like waiting for medical results. Will there be a text tomorrow? What are they doing now? Who are they doing now? There are 24 hours in a day where they do not sleep for more than 4 hours of that – they are not in contact with you despite their fingers being glued to their mobile – and they are not in contact with you. IT HURTS. ALOT.
Oh yes, contacting everyone but you, you can be sure of that.
Many of us are struggling with NC and can totally identify.
The addiction makes you scrabble for every crumb thrown your way despite knowing those crumbs are dregs, full of artificial flavour. In the end the crumbs taste of dust.
Hi ANK! Be comforted in knowing there will come a day when after so much space and time away, if you do get to taste a crumb (which it’s natural to be curious if you feel strong enough to test), the fake artificial flavor is so nasty, you’ll spit it right back out. I did not think I’d ever reach that point even earlier this year. It is a long process though. No quick fix.
Thank you for your encouraging words Clarece.
I’ve seen more of his fakeness the last couple of times I’ve bumped into him at work. He is trying to seduce someone in his building and I think he was worried I would see, so asked me casually whether I’d had a meeting there the week before because he thought he had seen me.
He was acting all shifty.
I think I’m past the stage of wanting him. I dont want a fake person, pretending. And he is a great pretender or so he thinks.
I’m sure he has gotten away with it for a long time. I wonder if I’m the first to have worked him out.
My ex MRN knows something is wrong with him besides alcoholism substance abuse. When his mask slipped he implored me to not make him give me (DLS) up too.
I struggle with his conflicting self awareness and blindness.
Mine does this too. He knows and admits (on rare occasion) that he has a problem. But he does nothinf about it though he says he wants to and will. Just words. And his word is worth nothing.
Correct.
For me what I struggle with the most is the frenemy part…
when you are not sure if someone is your friend or not.
When they are loving and kind but somehow you get the sense that you are being stabbed in the back but you have no way of proving it cz they are love bombing you and your grey and white matter are all mushed together…dont know if this makes sense at all
It makes perfect sense, NP.
I rarely get answers to questions (even benign questions), so I have started providing ‘options’ a, b, c, etc. which, at times, elicits a response. Other times, I say what I prefer and that I will do what suits me if no answer is given, and this may also elicit a response.
I’m still totally clueless as to why the BIG COME ON and then the immediate backdown when I said yes! Being very unloved, then having someone pretend to be infatuated, only to immediately shoot me down as unlovable, is the worst (but not unique – actually, a bit of a waste of their time – what’s new!). But why (why did they bother wasting their time)?
Do Narcissists also function on ‘perceived fuel’? There was no fuel to be had from me, I would never acknowledge this type of devaluing (a myriad of prior hurts makes for a heart of stone, a soul of steel, and wings of reinforced titanium with kevlar lining – the Narcissist received just a spent fuel rod! He wasted his time.
Yes please see the article about Thought Guel.
Thanks, very much appreciated. Your pieces on Thought Fuel put things into perspective. Despite the rollercoaster interaction, my colleague is still my friend and always will be. From reading your blog, I now have a better understanding of why things happen, how to manage my own reactions and feelings, and still be present when needed without feeling used and abused. Please keep writing.
Really struggle with my ex mrn not knowing what he is ….
I really wanted to vote for more than 3 so many applied .
I hate the ever presence of thinking about the tHiNg…I dont dwell on other breakups or the people I was with…
And trying to explain to people when they say “yeah I know, I know”, when they DONT know….frustrates me no end.
Thanks HG. Interesting as usual…
Hmm..this is an interesting one. I voted for a) That the positive feelings for me were not real b) That greaters know what they are but still behave as they do. c) The need for fuel.
I am surprised that at the moment I on the only one who has voted for that.
Give it time Flickatina, give it time.
HG left out the option” All male narcs are C..ts ” & deserve their gonads dissolved in an acid bath 🙂
Tut tut such misandry NSS!
Only if the recipient is a narc HG. 🙂
👍
I’ve been calling Narchole a c*%!t a lot lately 😁The fate you have described would be perfect for him.
I must be in another phase of acknowledgenent/recovery feeling all this anger and hatred towards him 🤔
Haha.. I tend to use Twunt a lot too ANK .. Very satisfying 🙂
Yes very satisfying 😈
I’ll have to add Twunt to the list!
Not So Sad & ANK
That was fucking hilarious! This blog is awesome! And thanks for: misandry, HG.
I forgot to say his first name begins with a C. Guess his parents got the other letters wrong.
And his last name quite apt too. Gathering a flock.
I did . I think that’s most confusing one ☹. My narc came bck the other day texting he loves me only to disappear after one day conversation. Hes Off chatting to someone else now. I really struggling to understand why