Why the Narcissist Downgrades


“HG, I am decent-looking, have a good job, I am intelligent, caring, fun and interesting, I dress well, I am a dab hand at cooking and nobody has ever complained about my bedroom skills and he has left me for THAT! Why?!”

It is a refrain I have often heard.

Why, when the narcissist could have you, did he go and choose somebody who is clearly inferior to you in so many different ways?

What is so good about her or him?

Where have you gone wrong?

Why on earth has he chosen her over you?

Why has the narcissist downgraded?

This gives you the answer and it will not only help you understand, it will make you feel a whole lot better too.

Find out here

160 thoughts on “Why the Narcissist Downgrades

  1. Amanda says:

    Thank you for keeping my back every step of this sick and twisted journey that I have been on. I am so grateful for your insight. I have stuck with no contact rule since escaping him while he was on a weekend holiday with the “temp from the lower realm”. Upon his return to the home he had just moved me into only 5 weeks prior, he found not one trace that I had ever been there. Having this information has heavily armed me so I am privy and unbothered by the ploys as they unfold exactly they was you say right in front of my own eyes. It’s bliss.

    1. K says:

      The empaths version of The Vanishing Act.

  2. Diva says:

    Ok……I will try not to become too trying in the process but don’t bank on it……it’s difficult to change your habits of a lifetime……Diva

  3. Yolo says:

    Hi Jenna,

    I tried to reply to you on support forum. I dont get notifications anymore. Maybe, I am doing something wrong.

    I hope all is well with you. I started my Pre(Dialectical Behavioral Therapy😊 so far 2 and its a small group of 4 with 2 therapist. I am hopeful, this week we are working on Distress Tolerance Skills which is about frustration tolerance.

    At first I didn’t understand why it was for 8 months. I totally see the value in it. This along with knowledge obtain from H.G. is priceless. You asked when did i find H.G. I believe it was 2 years ago. I am going to try and type this and hold back the tears but its so hard. I think what’s is more important is that he help me find a parts of me I never knew existed.

    I miss your posts. 😊

    Thanks you H.G.

    1. jenna says:

      Yolo, i am so v proud of u! It is kind of u to keep us posted. Distress tolerance skills – certainly something i need once my panic strikes.

      My psychiatrist told me that b4 i start dbt, i need to see a psych/therapist that is trained as a child psychiatrist/therapist also. He said i must re-visit my childhood because i revert to a hurt child once my panic strikes. Because he said i have some symptoms that are similar to borderlines, but that i do not have bpd (that was a shock to me), he wants me to do this before dbt.

      Yolo, why are u abt to cry? What is troubling u dear? Is it because u are learning more abt urself? It can be v triggering.

      Would u like to go shopping? We both love shopping therapy!😊

      Btw, to get comments in ur inbox, u must log into ur wordpress account, and clear all pending actions. Indy commented abt this. I did it, and i started receiving many comments, but not all.

      If u miss my fun posts, pls see ‘the porn supremacy’ where diva and i bug hg abt his self directed erotic films. He is such a sport to post the comments. It will cheer u up!

      1. Diva says:

        Hey Jenna (aka my partner in crime)…..HG is not for giving up certain details!!!!…… but I am sure you and I can wear him down…..persistence is what we are good at remember……we have to play to our strengths! Have no fear…..you will warm that Naughty Step yet……..I don’t think you really need my help though……I am seeing signs of rebellion in your posts……keep it up it’s a good sign…….Diva

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Please do try.

        2. jenna says:

          Diva lol! Yes i can b persistent w hg but as soon as he gives the strict ‘enough’ or ‘u don’t need to know’, i get scared. After recovery (approx 1 day), my fear fades and i will try again. Hg, may i ask u … ok ok nothing!

          1. Diva says:

            Hi Jenna……I understand…..I get scared of him too…..but only for about 1 minute and then those feelings quickly morph into defiance. It helps that I am faceless being, hiding behind a computer screen, it might not be the same face to face…… as it might only be 30 seconds then!!!!…….Haha……Diva

          2. K says:

            Why am I not surprised that you morph into defiance…K

          3. jenna says:

            Diva lol! Yes, i love hiding behind my phone’s screen too!

  4. Elspeth says:

    I was married to a mid-ranger. His alcoholism frequently pushes him toward the lesser end of the spectrum. He’s good looking, charming, all the usual stuff. He sucked my finances dry. It will take me lots of effort and time to claw my way out of the pit of debt he dug for me. After he left, I thought I would die. My depression was crippling and I tried very hard to beg and plead and cajole him into coming back, but he had moved on. Bit by bit, I started recognizing what he was and feeling better that he was gone.
    Recently, I unblocked him on FB because I was just curious (and, in truth, bored and lonely) and when I saw who he’s pursuing, I laughed out loud.
    My father was a lesser narcissist, so I get the need to surround oneself with low-achievers to feel better. My mum used to say “If there’s trash, he will find it, bed it, and send it money.” Even as his own family ate canned hash and collected eviction letters.
    And me? Well, I sort of see us co-dependents as the mirror images of narcs. I don’t mind the term co-dependent. I’m trying to love myself and heal, but I have to say co-dependency is just another way of controlling and manipulating for a different type of fuel. The boost I get from being co-dependent is a sense of purpose, a defined role, and the sanctimonious ego trip of being a savior.
    So, I have gone back to the mid-range narc I was with before I got involved with the one I married. He’s a little more toward the greater end of the spectrum. And he won’t be around long. He never is. He deflects, he lies about where he is and why, he vanishes and eventually wanders back. I’m his Dirty Little Secret. If I were looking for a meaningful relationship, he would be useless, but what I need right now is basically someone with whom I am comfortable who can get me over the ex-husband. He prefers wealthy women. I am not wealthy. I am very intelligent, fun to talk to, and attractive. I would not fit with the glamorous circle of hand-picked sycophants he has assembled.
    I have been the Dirty Little Secret for lots of narcs for most of my adult life. I’ve achieved quite a bit; very often I ghost-wrote their books, reports, articles and speeches, but having been the target of my father’s abuse, I am socially anxious and it shows.
    In the journey to loving myself and therefore allegedly overcoming my “co-dependence” (I have my doubts that this is possible for anyone), I am learning to love the bits that are “wrong.” For example, a shrink might say “You need to seek out a healthier mate.” Fair enough, but what if I don’t want to? Shouldn’t I look at why I choose the narcs? It’s very naive to think that I’m not getting something out of a situation to which I return with such frequency. It’s more than just a need to re-create the original wound of my childhood, to find a narcissist like Dad and then earn his love, thereby achieving the miracle of completion.
    Is there something about the configuration of my narc-cod relationships that I feel gives me some sort of advantage?
    Yes. I extract fuel from the narcs, as I said, it’s just a different kind of fuel.

  5. @Dr HQ – You are the Bitch Goddess I hope to be you in my next life. How on Earth did you ever get tangled up with a Narcissist?

    @HG – We’ve only spoken a few times, and I don’t comment on your blog that often but can you breakdown how the various schools would react to me? Your take on Dr. HQ was fun to read.

    The way my Narcissist spoke about women’s appearances shocked me. I suppose I’ve been lucky in life, I had never heard a man speak that way about women before. I would try to laugh it off because I truly couldn’t process the disrespect and shallowness of his words.

    I remember a few times I tried to explain the concept of inner beauty, and that a loving eye wouldn’t see the changes of aging. He wasn’t having it.

    In retrospect, I can’t believe that I had to explain such simple ideas to a 57 year old man.

    Anyway, I was quite attractive when we first started seeing each other. But, 16 months later, I’m a tiny bit haggard with my gauntness and haunted eyes. Whatever, when I can force myself to smile, I still look quite nice.

    We’ve been broken up now for three months in spite of his near constant and intrusive hoovering. It’s been really hard as all of you can imagine, and I had been hoping and dreading that he would find someone else. (He never played the triangulation tactic on me, probably because that I actually would have walked away from instantly).

    About a month ago, he did find someone else, although it seems to be a very casual relationship. He plastered their picture on social media.

    Guess what? She’s one of the most average looking women I have ever seen in my life. This is a woman he would have verbally annihilated if we had seen her walking down the road. His standards were comically high.

    His choice was so bizarre that it shocked the hurt right out of me. Is he serious? Their relationship or public tryst didn’t put a damper on his intense hoovering of me either.

    That’s my “Have you seen who he’s with?” story.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hello LEL, I would need more information from you to do the requested exercise and that would be best done through a consultation. Thanks for sharing your Have You Seen Who He Is With experience.

    2. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


      Hahaha omfg you are fucking amazing! I’m glad that HG and I entertain you with our back and forth – I mean what else would you expect between an Oppositional defiant …ADHD psychologist and a narcissistic psychopath. HG knows it’s all in good fun and not directed at him.

      I got entangled with a narc who everyone suspects is a closeted homosexual. I worked with him and quite honestly it was a product of my own boredom. I was my own worst enemy and it just went off on the crazy train from there.

      You have my support πŸ€“πŸ˜ – it always helps to talk about it with people who have had similar experiences.

      You will get out of this even stronger than you were before – the beginning is a bitch.

  6. narc affair says:

    First and foremost a narcissist is in love with themselves or their facade self and that is the basis of all their dealings. They need that boost to their ego. If theyre with a gorgeous woman who isnt providing them with the fuel they need to make them feel heightened and powerful then they will move on to one of their other sources regardless if theyre beneath the primary. They will in time anyways bc the fuel always becomes stale and less potent thats why they cycle their sources of fuel bc in due time their fuel seems newer when theyve not been with it for awhile.
    Ive seen so many cases where celeb husbands fool around and leave their gorgeous wives for someone way beneath them and i always wondered why this was. Its because of the fuel potency. They love juicy fuel and if someone looks up to them and gives them tons of admiration and caters to their narc needs theyll far prefer that to stale fuel of their primary. The narc loves what inflates their ego.

  7. Sandra says:

    He once actually explained it to me very succinctly:

    “Any port in a storm”.

    I swear to god, more prophetic words were never spoken by a Mid-range pleb.

  8. Scout says:

    Saw this and had to share here:

    “I cried when you left me, but I laughed when I saw what you left me for.”

    Priceless. ;))

    1. Peaceful says:

      Scout, that’s priceless!!! Thanks for sharing! Still laughing!

      1. Scout says:

        Hahaha! You’re welcome. Something to cheer us up. πŸ™‚

  9. Loulou says:

    ‘Panic pick’. Lol! Awww. Bless the little narcie

  10. Scout says:

    I couldn’t fail to notice his supplies as he flirted provocatively with them in front of me on a number of occasions. One was older than me, the other younger than me, both plain and ‘large’. When I pointed out he preferred slim ladies, like myself, he replied to the contrary saying he preferred larger women with ‘meat to hang on to.’ I wanted to pour a pint of beer over his baldy head but his loyal lieutenant was with us. I didn’t want to add more fuel to his bs.
    I used to feel the pain from the betrayal; that’s gone. Time to recover from the poison and leave him to his ugly delusions.

  11. Nicnocturnal says:

    I can genuinely say I have no idea who he is with now. I knew he was with someone, that goes without saying, and I presume he latched onto someone from his new groups of friends, but that is it. Difficult as it was, once I blocked him, that was it. I simply was not prepared to play his games or show the slightest interest.

    Of course it works to my advantage too. I’m a terrible liar, so if someone ever brings it up I can look them right in the eye, shrug and say I have no idea who she is or what they’re doing. Of course this then gets fed back to him and removes some of sheen of smug superiority. All of that desperation to hurt me, using her, comes to nothing πŸ˜™

    1. He is a empty soul.
      Sad but true.
      They all are.

  12. Bermynick says:

    My ex-narc took off with a crackhead. I could have written this piece!

    1. HG Tudors # 1 fan says:

      In devaluation you are the whore; not the new prospect who is in the golden period.

    2. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


      Let him take the crackhead they can have each other and he can drive her nuts lmao – you should have gift wrapped his loser ass to her lol!!!

      If she is a decent chick I would feel bad for her later on – when I got over the incident of course- but if she knew about me …I would still hate the chick lol

      1. HG Tudors # 1 fan says:

        Last time I checked, HG, is a narcissist/sociopath.

      2. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        HG is a narcissistic psychopath

  13. Merripen says:

    My ex narc lives a 3 hour drive away, so this has allowed me to be spared any and all information about his new victim. He had no animosity towards me in the discard (he actually did apologize, saying he knew this hurt me, and while I did make him happy, it was more complicated than that), so thankfully, it seemed like he did not want to trot her in front of me for additional torture. Like Diva, I have taken respites when I pretend their relationship isn’t even happeing out there in the world. This interruption of my life, this painful mindfuck (heartfuck) has been a difficult thing to digest. I simply cannot do it in big pieces. My growing comprehension of the dynamics (thanks to HG) has helped greatly. HG is again showing me that every action of the narcissist is just a jockeying for secure, quality fuel and every repercussion, side-effect and casualty of his actions remains moot. It is a painful thing to realize that (fuel aside) you have never been anything other than moot to the one your heart believed was “the one”.

    1. K says:

      They break your heart like no other. It is truly devastating.

  14. Jenna says:

    After he moved out, he chose her as his niss. I will never know if she was more than that. He is somatic, so he is health and fitness conscious. She is overweight and does not watch her diet. I was shocked. She texted him every evng. He enjoyed her fuel i guess. But he did tell me several times ‘she’s fat.’ And when i asked him if she looked nice during their last meeting, he quickly replied ‘no.’ His reply came faster than i could finish my question.

  15. Mona says:

    I felt shame and pity (what a strange combination) , when I saw one of the women he chose after our relationship. I do not want to degrade women, but this woman was of low intelligence, belonged to another part of society. I knew he needed a woman so badly and I knew he would abuse her. I knew this woman was only there to cover his wounds and to hurt me. He was on rage against each woman he met. In his rage against women he mistreated all women around him, even the adored next IPPS, which is a nice and intelligent woman, who was on her way to hell without knowing. He always was on search for a woman who would support his evil games with other women. He saw a film about the Romans, where a wife supported her husband to abuse a slave sexually to become a little bit calmer. He could not really hide his enthusiasm about this wife, although he tried. I was shocked and felt paralysed until my soul realised the whole extent of his distorted and ill soul and character. On the other hand it helped me to see chrystal clear that I was not the crazy one. Shame, there is so much shame, that I was in love with that man. If it would be possible, I would deny the whole relationship. That is the point, where I am now.

    1. anonymous says:

      Your not alone. It is as if i wrote your blog . . . R u still at that point? How r u doing now?

  16. Tappan Zee says:

    Irony. They don’t care. The can never be close to anyone. All is a facade. But for fox sake escape and they panic. They cannot be alone. Grab the closest appliance off the 24hr convenience store shelf because it’s all that’s open. It will do.

    1. HarleenQ,

      It sounds like to me you were with a sexaul pervert who had no condideration for for feelings at all, what a creep. Sorry you had to endure that pain and humiliation.

      My lesser would just take it, he took everything he damn well pleased. In the word of the lesser “I took that shit” or ‘fucking please me” As for the sexual acts, he never degraded me, sexually or asked for anything out of the norm; in fact his favorite go to position was missionary with me. I take that back, when devalueation time came around, he tried to have anal with me.

      The stories I heard come out of his mouth of his sexual past with women, were quite disturbing, and very degrading to say the least.

      1. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        That sounds like a lot to deal with. He sounds like a neanderthal. I’m sorry you had to deal with that big bag of crazy. He is off torturing someone else now – at least you got away.

      2. HG Tudors # 1 fan says:

        You said Neanderthal, that was hilarious. He claimed to be a Viking because of his Norwegian Heritage. Neanderthal is more like it. The mentality and mind of a 13-year-old stuck in a man’s body, gross.

      3. anonymous says:

        For what it’s worth, I started to hear about his previous sexual exploits . . . I believe he needs sex addicts anonymous meeting. But doc, people go into the study of psychology for reason . . . I think your a Borderline personality disordered individual. My informed opinion.

  17. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

    Yeah – I would tell the guy to have a ball with his peasant whore. You want her? She is so great? Please be my guest … take her.

    My mentality :

    I don’t take men back. I have never and would never take a man back. I don’t do forgiveness for choosing another over me. You are now dead to me. You are a traitor and you are balls to the wall bat shit crazy or ridiculously stupid if you believe you will ever be with me or eve. touch me again.

    I’m not a back up or second rate chick- you cant keep me on the back burner.

    1. Mona says:

      Please Dr. Quinzel,
      do not downgrade another woman as a whore. She is not.

      1. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        I didn’t mean to offend you and I happen to like you and think we have been getting along great lately – so because of that and only that I’ll try to be more mindful however I ask you to understand my perspective – you don’t have agree – just understand.

        This invisible, hypothetical woman could in fact be a whore and she could not -so to be fair who is to say she is a whore unless we are speaking of a specific person and I have evidence to support my aguement / beliefs – now remember that this would be my personal perception of an individual – what I perceive to be a whore may not be your perception.

        Just want you to understand my perspective that is all. You are totally entitled to your beliefs and perception. I see you come from a good place and I see your perspective. I will be mindful you are sensitive to that kind of material and I’ll try and lay off it.

        I just want to stress my perception is not wrong and yours isn’t either. What I react to (and I’m trying my best not to because u must keep in mind I do have oppositional defiant disorder) is when I perceive people telling me how to think and feel and ultimately tell me what to do. So all I ask and I’m saying this truly in the calmest most sincere way – just please try and understand my perspective even if you don’t agree.

        I will be mindful of whore comments to be respectful of you.

        1. Jenna says:

          Mona, it may also be a cultural difference, because i recall u translating a phrase frm english into what it means in your language.
          I am assuming u did not grow up in north america? I recall reading references to a country other than u.s.a. frm u. If my recollection is incorrect, i apologize.
          Here, I have heard many pple using the word ‘whore, bitch, slut’ when their bf cheats on them w another. They do not literally mean that the woman is a ‘whore’ ie. prostitute. It also depends on the context. Doc’s contexts are usually very straight forward, and somewhat playful. She adds ‘lmao’ to many devastating experiences she’s had. I believe she uses humour as a therapeutic device. Said in a fleeting manner as doc uses it, it is more said to express anger towards her ex, rather than towards the hypothetical woman. She does not actually mean that the woman is a prostitute. Her intent is not that. I always try to look at intent. Hope that explains it.
          Mona, i also like the way u challenge hg in many articles. It gives him a chance to think abt his behavior. However, it may be futile, as he asserts he has no need to change. However, many of us do see a change in him.

      2. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        You get meeeeeee πŸ˜˜πŸ€£πŸ™ƒπŸ€“

        You nailed it lol.

      3. Degrading another female in a derogatory way, is very tacky & tasteless.

    2. Jenna says:

      Hg, just curious – is doc excellent supply because she is so fiesty and gets angered thus u like the anger (fuel)? Or is she less than premium supply because she will not keep trying to fix the relationship?

      1. HG Tudor says:

        To whom?

        1. Jenna says:

          To a narcissist, for example, to you?

          1. HG Tudor says:

            To me, she is a tertiary source thus the potency is low whichever way.

          2. Jenna says:

            I mean if she were in your personal life, would she be an ideal candidate?

          3. HG Tudor says:

            Why do you ask?

          4. Jenna says:

            I am curious to know what would be more important to a narc (not necessarily doc, but say someone similar):

            a) her oppositional nature (rightfully so) if provoked, thus providing u w loads of negative fuel


            b) her ability to let go due to having introspected and established boundaries, eg. I recall her writing ‘don’t call me enough, bye,’ ‘don’t text me enough, bye’ after her experience.
            Others, may continue to suffer for days during successive silent treatments over and over, and welcome u back w open arms.

            Would such a candidate make an excellent real life ipps due to point A, or would u be deterred due to point B? It helps me gain clarity as to what trait outweighs the other, for the narc. Ty.

          5. HG Tudor says:

            It depends on the school of narcissist.

          6. Jenna says:

            I am assuming a cowardly mid-ranger would not like the challenge. A lesser may not have the intellectual ability to deal w the challenge, being so knee-jerk like in his responses. But perhaps a greater may love the challenge and absorb the negative fuel. I may be wrong. Ty.

          7. HG Tudor says:

            The Lesser would find the feisty element attractive but would struggle to maintain control over both himself and the suggested victim.
            The Mid Ranger would be tempted by the feisty element but would probably seek out a more compliant victim, should this feistiness manifest during seduction.
            The Greater would relish the prospect of bringing the victim to heel.

          8. Jenna says:


          9. Diva says:

            This is one of those posts that I will no doubt regret commenting on but again my brain is unable to control my fingers…….

            I can attest to all of this post as I have been in a relationship with all 3 types and I can be a tad feisty at times……although very few people would realise that to be the case.

            I have a very limited knowledge of a Lesser by way of any real relationship………however I knew myself within a matter of hours or even maybe minutes of meeting one, that this one would have no way of working.

            With the Midrange……..there is no doubt a mutual attraction….however they don’t have the balls to handle anyone feisty …….it scares them……they try and control the feisty victim with their usual techniques and modus operandi, yet when they find that Plan A is not working……they don’t have much of a plan B…..they like to stick with what they know and what works for them. I am not sure if they don’t have the intellect or the motivation to raise their game, but I feel it is either one or the other, or both.

            “The Greater would relish the prospect of bringing the victim to heel”…….since when did we become dogs on leads?????….. on second thoughts don’t answer that question.

            It’s all very true…..the Greater has a plan A to Z and beyond…….however there are some individuals that refuse to toe the line, just for defiance, principles or maybe something much deeper than that. Then it plays out like a Pat Benatar album…..Love Is A Battlefield, Fire and Ice, Hit Me With Your Best Shot, We Belong, Sex As A Weapon, Invincible, Heartbreaker…….Diva

          10. Jenna says:

            Diva, sometimes i regret commenting too, but just like u, β€œmy brain is unable to control my fingers”
            But i am improving.

            Comment away, that’s what this forum is for.

            I esp love bugging hg but have to face any/all repercussions.

            Hg, pls tell us where u went last wk when u didn’t moderate? At least the category – business, personal? Ok ok i know β€˜i don’t need to know.’ Sorry my fingers could not control themselves! But i want to know? Ok fine, i don’t need to know. Yes i do. No i don’t. Pls don’t be mad.

          11. Diva says:

            Hi Jenna……there are some things in life that you are better off not knowing about and it’s my guess that HGs “business” is likely to be one of them!!!!

            I don’t try too hard to “bug” HG…….I do recall one occasion, but maybe he “bugged” me, as opposed to the other way around……..

            On another note……where did MLA Clarece go……and RS seems to be M.I.A.???? I haven’t seen a post from either of them in a while. Good to see you are still here though!!!!…….Diva

          12. jenna says:

            Thx diva. Last yr, i would have crawled into a hole and cried myself to sleep. But being on the blog for one yr now, my strength has increased i believe, as i am learning frm u lovely pple.

            Yes, i remember u were on the naughty step. Get back there!! Hehe!

            Now that my panic has subsided (took abt a wk), i am back to my playful self!

            Clarece. I miss her too. I hope she didn’t have a run in w hannibal? Lol jk.
            U know, that’s how she got the name – frm ‘silence of the lambs’ movie when the blog was at its beginnings. I truly hope she’s safe.

            Hg, hmmm, well his business can be our business becoz we’re all his blog buddies right? Well, maybe he is the blog god and we are the blog servants lol. Pls hg tell
            us tell us… ok i’ll stop now. I know we are tertiary and remote. Insignificant. Nada. Nothing. Useless. Lolllll

            How abt a book? ‘A day in the life of a greater narc.’ U document what u did n feel all day. I wud be waiting for it eagerly.

          13. Diva says:

            Hi Jenna it is good to hear that you feel that you have made substantial progress within the space of a year. I am not one for crying myself to sleep…..I once read something like……”don’t lie in bed crying yourself to sleep…….stay up instead and plot your revenge!!!!” Humour keeps me on the straight and narrow…….well sometimes!!!!

            I was put back on the naughty step within minutes of HGs return this week…….I like it there…….it gives me time to plot…..err I mean think!!!!!!

            I had a suspicion that Clareces name came from the Silence of The Lambs…..I have kind of watched it…..from behind a cushion with my eyes closed. Those films are not for me. I too hope she is ok along with RS…….

            Now about idea of yours “A day in the life of a Greater narc” documenting what HG does and feels all day……….I think it would be less frightening watching Silence of The Lambs in 3D, with no cushion and with my eyes wide open…….Diva

          14. Jenna says:

            Thx diva.

            Though i have never been banished to the naughty step, i think i would like to be. It may be a fun experience lol!

            Wait, i know how to get myself there.

            Here i go again and i will regret this:
            Hg, where were u 2 wks ago? I want to know. I won’t stop until i know.
            Sorry, i can’t do it. My heart is pounding. Pls ignore above question hg. I have no right to know.
            I am but a mere 5 letters ‘jenna’ to u. I accept it you 6’1″ blonde haired, blue eyed, crisp shirt collared, intelligent, mean, evil, uncaring, malignant, helpful consultant extraordinaire. How many contradictions in that last sentence? This is what keeps us hanging u see.

          15. Diva says:

            Jenna……it’s so easy to get on that step……just insult Depeche Mode….it has a guaranteed outcome. However ……now he knows we want on the step….he won’t put us on it. So you keep trying, to see what the alternative is……let me know if it hurts, on a scale of 1 to 10…..although I am thinking it might be worse than a ten!!!!……You still make me laugh!!!……..Diva

          16. Jenna says:

            Diva, you’re right! How could i forget that? Now that he knows i want to be there, he won’t put me there. You ‘re already there. U lucky girl! Lol jk!
            Insult dm? Oh my, i’m too scared. I would be banished frm the blog!
            🎼’Strange love strange highs and strange lows strange love that’s how my love goes… ‘🎼
            Hg, did u write these lyrics? This describes deval and respite quite well.

          17. HG Tudor says:

            No Martin Lee Gore did.

          18. Twilight says:

            Is he one of your kind?

          19. HG Tudor says:


          20. Twilight says:

            Martin Lee Gore

            I apologise for not being specific

          21. Jenna says:

            And he didn’t ask for ur help?πŸ€”

          22. HG Tudor says:

            We were not acquainted at that time.

          23. Jenna says:

            I see.

          24. Diva says:

            Hey Jenna…..from the lyrics I read, pretty much every one of those Depressed Mode songs has a narc theme one way or another…….Diva

          25. Jenna says:

            DIva, did i just read ‘depressed mode?’ Gulp. Double gulp.
            U meant ‘da-best mode’ right? I’m frightened for ur fate. U r already on the naughty step. I wonder what he has planned for u next? The naughty dungeon that supposedly lennox locked him into? He fibs abt that though!
            Keep safe frm him. He is malignant after all and proudly admits it. Sigh…

          26. Diva says:

            Sure he wouldn’t put me in a dungeon for a simple spelling mistake!!!…..Diva

          27. Jenna says:

            Diva, lol!

      2. HG Tudors # 1 fan says:

        You’ll learn and find the answers by reading, HG’s material, such as; Sitting Target & Fuel.

        1. Jenna says:

          Thx hgt1f. I’ve already read those.

      3. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        For the record my feisty attitude isn’t directed at HG since he isn’t my narcissist or my psychopath so basically I’m sure he gets nothing from it lol.

        I am just oppositional and feisty in general and I can see why some people may interpret that as a direct hit at HG – I can assure everyone and HG it is not.

        I’m not easy to handle in a relationship – I recognize that. After the mistakes I have made I won’t make up excuses for anyone anymore and won’t tolerate any form of bullshit.

        A greater would love me and hate me if he tried playing with me.

        Generally speaking I have a preference for sociopaths and psychopaths.

        Narcissists irritate me and I have no patience for them – with the exception of HG – he is the only one who doesn’t piss me off.

        1. Jenna says:

          Doc, i knew your fiesty attitude is towards ur ex bf and not towards hg. I’m glad u were fiesty w him becoz his actions were so … um… weird, disrespectful, horrible, questionable…
          Certain big _____ websites come to mindπŸ˜…

      4. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        Jenna ,

        I can promise you if any man who is my boyfriend decided to disappear or give me the silent treat me for more than 24 hours and he wasn’t in jail, the hospital, or dead ….

        I am single … PERIOD.

        That would be the dumbest thing to do to someone like me. That is a rule I have always lived by and no one has tried that shit other than one psychopath – he wasn’t deaded and ignored when he came back.

      5. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        The psychopath ….

        We actually disappeared on eachother at the same time – I took that as an insult and when he tried to reappear he was dead to me and ignored.

      6. HG Tudors # 1 fan says:

        Firstly, What does growing up in another country have to do with understanding the meaning of the word Whore? Last I checked, there was only one definition for the word Whore in the dictionary. The word Whore, has the same meaning all across the nation.

        Secondly, the word whore is a derogatory statement no matter how you use it, so stop making excuses to make, HQ. The fact of the matter is, It was a vulgar statement, and how she used it, was in a very derogatory and degrading way, plain and simple.

        Thirdly, how would a tertiary source be a Challenge to, HG? It’s impossible.

      7. Mona says:

        Dr. Q. and Jenna, it it now the 22.09. and I did not see your comment earlier. I am sure that I looked at this page on Sept.15. until 17. Each day I looked, if there was a comment. In this case I do not think, that HG blocked it. Maybe a problem of world press. I am not sure.
        I see that there is a big difference between women of your countries and of my country. It really seems to be part of a cultural problem. We fought much more for the rights of women than it seems to be usual in America or at other places of the world. We have a little bit more solidarity between women. I am a little bit astonished that women in America still fight against each other about a man. I am from the old continent and many of us decided to go another way ( especially educated women) If women fight against each other, it is easy for a narc. Maybe it is our history. Our mothers and especially our grandmothers had to build up our countries after second world war and therefore they became proud of their achievements. The men came back broken by war and were not able to do a lot of reasonable things. But they claimed to be the sovereign of the household. What for? They killed each other, came back and did nothing to build up the world around them again. Women realised how much they did and achieved and then the movement of emancipation started.The roots of this movement are placed in Second World war. It was necessary for women to support each other to survive and to raise the children all alone while and after war. Men were involved in war games and had no time to play the white knight. They were in fear and far away. Women were all alone. If I would be a little bit nasty and if I would feel a little bit superiour, I would call men the inferiour work of the evolution. Men disappointed a lot.(I hope, you understand my intention.)
        Their will is very often to destroy. Nothing else. Especially, if they are narcs.
        Dr. Q, I do not want to tell you, what you have to think, it is your decision. I only begged you not to do it and I am disappointed about this kind of thinking. It opens the door for much more macho behaviour of men and especially for narcisstic men. It is one of their very successful means to create jealousy between women. As long as you fight against other women, they will always be the winner. It is up to you to lower their winning chances. At the moment you support their evil games unconsciously.

      8. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        I am more than positive I drove my ex completely nuts because he never knew what was coming next. Our fights were explosive. I’ve done things I’m not proud of but let me tell you this – in the heat of the moment when someone is constantly emotionally abusing you, denying your reality, sexually abusing you in covert ways, and picks fights with you over shit there are no names for – you want to make sure you make your point – you want to make sure you leave your mark. He doesn’t get to just take a shit on me and walk away all merry and la-see-da. No that is not how that story was going to end.

        He didn’t know what mood I would be in and what grenade I would throw at him re things I knew (ex big dick site and tranny porn). I toyed with him many times – I got away with things behind his back and to this day he doesn’t know what I know about him. I suppose he suspects I know things but isn’t sure what and to what degree. I started my smear campaign years ago so he can suck it when it comes to smearing me.

        I don’t have it in me to lay down and die. That will never ever happen. I would have done anything for him but give up myself. Now that was the problem wasn’t it? I wouldn’t and will never give up who I am and roll over and die.

        I wish I could go backward and never bothered pursuing him. I feel bad about the affair I had with him. I feel terrible about what I did or well helped do to that poor woman before me. I can’t stress that enough. Who knows what she has been through… who knows what she knows… maybe she knows more than I do? I guess I’ll never know. What I do know is that we were all the same and each relationship played out the same way with the same words and same problems.

        Sometimes I have these moments I feel bad for him. He is a pathetic creature. I honestly vaccinate between hating him and feeling bad for him – but indifference is starting to set in as time goes on.

        Once upon a time when I was a teenager I would have unleashed a hurricane of crazy on him. I would have taken shots and plotted and planned and my only objective would have been to destroy him. Something stops me now. Even when I was enraged he would say the most horrible things to me (things I couldn’t feel so it didn’t matter that much but it was the principle behind it) – he would say “that’s all you got” (you know… to poke me like a 12 year old fighting another 12 year old in some kinda diss fight). What he doesn’t know is that I really could have destroyed him by holding up a mirror and by ripping him a part piece by piece. I could have done such terrible things to him but even in those moments of me seeing red … I didn’t do it because on some level I pitied him. There are some things you can’t take back and you can’t undo. I knew if I did certain things or said the things I wanted to there was no going back.

        He destroys himself every single day with every fake interaction and deluded thought about who he thinks he is.

        I have to remember everyday – I never had to do anything to hurt him. He hurts himself – he does the work for me. As he gets older – it all comes crumbling down harder and faster.

        So here I am lol…30 finally realizing that hey it’s okay to be alone – that it’s much more satisfying to be myself by myself then settle and be alone with someone else who is a dick.

        1. jenna says:

          Doc, i love how u stand up for urself. I need to learn frm u. I argue too, but then i start to panic. Either he gives in b4 my panic strikes. Or, if he hasn’t given in yet, and my panic has struck, then i’ll b the one to apologize for NOTHING! Lol what a joke!

    3. K says:

      I think when we are coming from a world of hurt and anger we may say things that we wouldn’t ordinarily say.

      1. Twilight says:

        Usually is, yet it gives no reason to tear another down. They are not responsible for bringing on the pain.

      2. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        That is very true.

      3. K says:

        Dr Q PsyD.
        During my last year with My MMRN I called all his girlfriends whores (and worse), I called his IPSS a cunt and I have called my mother a whore (and worse). When I post here, I post a lot of my anger and rage because I feel like we are here to share our feelings (I do not have a therapist). If we were talking IRL, the last thing a person needs is to be chastised or corrected. I am here to listen and understand, no matter how you choose to present your feelings. If people want to censor their experience that is fine with me, if not, that is fine, too. There is massive amounts of hurt and anger here and I will gladly take it all.

        1. Jenna says:


          “There is massive amounts of hurt and anger here and I will gladly take it all.”

          I think u may be one of the most empathic pple here. U r truly strong, brave, and frm what i have noticed so far, very selfless. πŸ’—

      4. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        Thank you! What this comes down to is I allow people to express themselves and vent without judgement and I don’t censor them. I swear if I met you in real life we would be great friends.

        I won’t let anyone tell me how to think or feel or express myself and I won’t censor myself. I won’t ever apologize for my feelings.

      5. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        Twilight totally not a hit at you I made a general statement in my comment to K.

        I understand why you asked me what you asked me so I just wanna let you know that isn’t a shot at you.

        1. Twilight says:

          Dr Quinzel

          I knew it wasn’t a shot at me.

          I am no whore, I know my value. Anyone and I mean anyone can say what they want, believe what they want it doesn’t make it true.

          For myself I see no reason to name call. We all chose the path we walk. Some make decisions based on ignorance, some because they don’t want to face truth and some because this is what they chose.

          If people could see within others they might be a little kinder with the words used. Words leave deeper scars. The one you call a whore you don’t know her story. Oh you may think you do, but you don’t. You only see things from your perspective, from your experience. This doesn’t make it a truth only your opinion, which you are entitled to.

          Now if you could see the scars and the wounds bleeding from the words said, would you still use them to tear down another?

      6. K says:

        Dr Q PsyD.
        Your moxie is sexy! We would get along very well. I like Alphas and outliers. I want your revenge, your rage, your hatred and your heartbreak. Give it to me wrapped up in bitterness, bile, violence and truth. I will take every bit of it from you and make it mine. Then you will be able to heal and move on. Rage is beautiful.

      7. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        It depends on the person and the situation.

        I can still feel for a person I hate and understand their pain but not feel bad about calling them a whore.

        Sometimes in the moment I’m so mad I don’t feel it but later on I do but it doesn’t change the fact I hate them and I believe them to be a whore. I empathize but it doesn’t always change my opinion.

        I won’t make up excuses for someone else’s behavior anymore. I have to protect myself.

        There comes a point when empathy gets in the way. I can’t tell you how many times I have had that internal battle that you describe in your post. As I’ve gotten older and I’ve been wronged many times I have to look out for myself more and stop justifying and feeling bad for what other people have done to me simply because they have issues.

        You would be truly shocked at some of the people I actually feel bad for despite the most horrific things they have done because of whatever issues they have – doesn’t make what they have done okay and it doesn’t mean I have to put up with it.

        1. Twilight says:

          Dr Quinzel

          Protecting oneself and projecting are two different things IMO. When something comes from anger and hate it is projecting a hurt, a wrong done to them.
          Protecting oneself is a boundary one has placed, words are not needed to get that message across.

          Norhing surprises me.

          Thank you thou for sharing your opinion and perspective of your experiences, we don’t have to agree with how we react/respond to understand each other’s experiences.
          I would like to add sometimes protecting oneself aggressive negotiations is needed, it is a matter of knowing when.

      8. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        I rarely ever say this so it’s a huge deal that I am saying this…

        You are truly from the bottom of my heart a beautiful person. You amaze me.

        I hope one day I get to meet you because you really would make an amazing bestfriend – you are a ride or die kinda chick and I respect you and everything you have been through.

        You have beauty, empathy, intellect, and strength – I really really fucking respect you.

      9. K says:

        Dr. Q PsyD.
        Thank you for your kind words! After a life time of NPD abuse, their impact is keen; it is a welcome feeling and I was smiling ear to ear after I read them. I suspect we would be very best friends and I am definitely a ride or die kinda chick. Got your 6.

        It was so nice to read these words!!!

        “You have beauty, empathy, intellect, and strength – I really really fucking respect you.”

      10. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        Thought you would appreciate this πŸ˜‚


      11. K says:

        Thank you, Jenna!
        You understand hurt and heartbreak, too, and you are very kind. There is so much pain and suffering here and if we listen, we can help people heal and move on. The weight of grief can be heavy and I am here to help carry it.

    4. Twilight says:

      Dr Quinzel

      Why would you see the other woman a whore? I can understand being angry, yet why take that anger out on another that will experience the same as you. Regardless if they are not as pretty or intelligent or any other for that matter.

      1. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        I don’t – depending on the situation I’ll take it I it on the man or I take it out on both.

        In my personal experience – it was another woman who was in my opinion a dumb whore – they always came back saying they should have picked me and found out the hard way.

        I don’t always call the woman the whore – the woman has to warrant the label lol.

      2. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        I always take it out on the man. Listen people this is situation specific. In my own personal experience I knew the woman and the woman was an asshole in my opinion. You do not come from my experience so keep that on mind.

        So before people go on the whole defending this invisible woman – what if I told you my so called bestfriend betrayed me?

        Now think about it again. You look at things on a case by case basis. When this has happened to me – the women were beneath me and were in my opinion whores. That is my oppinion – you don’t know the people – I do – keep that in mind. One girl had a train run on her – excuse me if I’m not sorry I find this woman a whore.

      3. HG Tudors # 1 fan says:

        We are all whores in the eyes of a narcissist including you, Harleen Quinzel.

      4. HG Tudors # 1 fan says:

        The other so-called whore heard those same exact words that the narcissist once told you. “I should of picked you” What a narcissist says to one whore, he says to the other whore.

      5. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        I understand why you say that but I’m speaking from my own perspective re the whore comment. It makes no difference what they think about me or the other person – I know who and what I am – and I’m no whore.

      6. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        We all come from different experiences and different perceptions.

        So basically to say the person isn’t a whore when you don’t know the situation isn’t exactly fair; however I recognize your point and I perceive things that way too at times but the other person isn’t always innocent. I understand where the comment came from.

        Everything is on a case by case basis and experiences as well as perception need to be taken into consideration.

        1. Twilight says:

          Dr Quinzel

          I see your point from your perspective.

      7. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        After a betrayal and an insult like that I can assure you that I don’t give a flying fuck what they say to me. I know their words don’t mean shit because they aren’t shit. Their words and their love are cheap and I don’t like things that are fake and practically anyone can have them. They aren’t special to me- they are nothing to me – they are dead to me. I honestly don’t care what they say to me or what they say to anyone else – they no joke buried themselves. There is no going back with me.

        they can stick their dick in whatever at that point – they can knock themselves out

      8. anonymous says:

        There seems to be too much placing blame on the women (name calling, etc). All the women no matter what their walk in life is, deserve the same respect and PITY we do; having been conned also. Any blame or derogatory statements should be directed at the culprit–the narc. Otherwise ur still taking care of him and releasing him of responsibility for causing damage and pain to all, unsuspecting or all in.

    5. narc affair says:

      Well said Dr.H!! Dont let any man treat you like a sloppy second. Ive done that in regards to the shelving stages and its bs.

      1. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        Narc affair,

        Thank you lol! Listen I have made that mistake with the whole being shelved thing and who the fuck do these men think they are? I am no second rate chick and you aren’t t either – I won’t waste my time anymore – I keep those options open and I’m not waiting around for anyone.

      2. HG Tudors # 1 fan says:

        That sloppy seconds, is someone else’s desert.

      3. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        Bitches can knock themselves out with my sloppy seconds – enjoy lol

    6. HG Tudors # 1 fan says:

      In my opinion, just because a woman likes to participate in sexual acts that you may not find appealing, does not make her a whore. We as women need to stick together, not degrade one another. The way you’ve been freely throwing around the word “whore” is so degrading, to the female species. It’s really vulgar & unnecessary.

      1. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        I totally salute women who are in touch with their inner freak lol! There is nothing wrong with gettin a little down and dirty πŸ˜‰

    7. In that case, what is your obession with psychopath/sociopaths? All they will ever do is use, abuse, and cheat on you? I am sorry to say, but you are not making any sense whatsoever. They see you as a toy to be played with is all.

      Narcissist, Sociopath, and Psychopaths, are all Cluster B Type Personality Disorders. Therefore, not much of a difference when it comes to personality traits.

      1. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        I don’t seek out psychopaths and cluster b personality types to get into a relationship with; however they seem to be very much attracted to me lol. I have always found psychopaths very interesting – from an academic and research stand point. They are fascinating. I have a few friends that are high functioning ones and they have been good friends to me therefore I have no problems with them. Furthermore, I have explained previously I am attracted (sexually) to more dominant and edgy men and the mental stimulation turns me on as well – unfortunately the ones I come across are usually psychopathic.

        So let me clarify – I don’t go out there seeking narc or a sociopath or a psychopath. I just can’t help the fact that they happen to interest me mentally and well they have something that turns me on.

        I am very well informed on the cluster b personalities because after all I am a psychologist lol.

        There is nothing wrong with admitting what I am attracted to. The pieces of the psychopathic personality that attract me would be the extroversion, dominance, and the fact that get bored as easily as I do. They have some pieces to them that are very admirable. They aren’t all bad but I hope I explained myself a little better this time around.

        I repeat – I don’t go seeking them for relationships.

      2. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        Keep in mind that not all psychopaths are “bad” – I was just saved recently by a few.

    8. HG Tudors # 1 fan says:

      Actually I do know some of what he told her about me. One thing he told her about me was, I am a physically, verbally abusive, selfish, self absorbed, stuck up vain bitch, who is not emotionally stable, but he accepts my behavior because I was hot, and have bomb kitty. Smear campaign & projection. Another thing I do know, is his actions spoke pretty loudly the day of her showing up at our house, which I know was planned.

      As for your question of liking bad boys, the answer, is no! I actually prefer a gentleman who is intelligent, well mannered, but has masculine qualities about himself. I can’t seem to find him, which is why I am still single.

      The problem is, I live in a community where a very high percentage of the men are highly aggressive, chauvinistic alpha males, who are genuinely psychotic men, who have a huge sense of entitlement, who also had horrific childhoods like myself, but I like my sisters became empaths like my father. My mother was a lesser somatic.

      As I was telling, HG, these were the only men
      I grew up around my whole life. My father was a im the service along with my brothers who were both seals as well. My older brother is now a contractor overseas. Both are narcissist sociopaths/psychopaths,100%. They say you become a victim of your environment.

      The majority of the men who are in the military especially “Spec Ops” have narcissistic personality disorder, along with being psychopaths and sociopaths. Being a Navy Seal In America, is like being a celebrity, there has been a few movies in, Hollywood made about my brothers friends that came out in the theaters. Out of 200 only about 19 make it. As the saying goes, “only the strong survive”. They are a pretty big deal out here. These narcissist are everywhere. Parasites is right, HG.

      In my opinion, It takes a particular kind person to take someone’s life when you think about it, and go sleep at night, and have absolutely no guilt, or remorse about it whatsoever. Indeed, our men in uniform are heros, but most of them are not wired right mentally. Never again!

      1. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        That’s really interesting especially because that is not how I grew up. I’m really glad that you are opening up and letting me understand who you are and what you have been through. I grew up around these privileged asshole guys who felt entitled to sex and whatever.

        My last 2 relationships (last two were narcs) fucked me up the most. I was treated like a sexual object in both now that I think about it – they both used my mind to help them get out of situations and what not. I think I crown the last relationship as the worst because of the length of the relationship. Neither of them had any kind of substance or intelligence that I valued. I was constantly bored and empty. Both of them were mid rangers. The sexual abuse really took its toll on me because he was constantly whining or throwing tantrums when I didn’t want to engage in sexual activity and of course the acts got weirder and weirder. I remember crying on a few occasions telling him to like leave me alone and stop bitching at me – we would fight and then as we were making up the idiot would try to have sex with me again and I would say “this is what we were just fighting over!” And the fight would start again. It’s really has taken a long time to let it sink in how sexually abused I was and how it can take so many different forms. It’s like my mind has difficulty accepting it. I started getting really anxious in the relationship for many reasons – but one of course had to do with sex – he was always waiting and lurking and that was like the only time I even existed. He didn’t do anything to make me want to have sex with him. I remember getting anxious at certain times because I knew the routine – how he would come to be and legit look at me and pull his pants down and or he would try and touch me and when I would make an excuse up or whatever he would throw a tantrum right before bed – or I would say can we not do (insert a sexual act) today and he would push boundaries and start to do it and I would freak out and then we would fight. When men try to touch me I get anxious and angry because they are not entitled to touch me and I can’t even pretend or push myself to engage in sexual activity with someone I am not totally attracted to and I trust.

      2. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        I had a thing for bad boys – you know the ones that look dirty and edgy. I have gotten over that. The perfect combination is like a guy that’s a gentleman who can also be relaxed but has edge. Well I feel you on your whole dilemma – I can’t find anyone I like either. I can’t find anyone I even want to have sex with – I love how I’m pretending for like five seconds I could actually have causal sex lmao. I’m sure you know what I mean.

    9. anonymous says:

      With all due respect, your use of the word whore to describe a person who is exactly where you once stood, is going to experience the same as you did, says too much about who you are. We are all connected. Have u ever considered you may have some of the narc traits as well? I believe we all innately have some of the traits to survive, but u come across as over the top.
      Currently I’m only 3 weeks discarded, 10 days from a coincidental social interaction. Pardon me if I’m despondent, disillusioned, afraid, confused and grief stricken quite frankly. You see, I really fell in love with my narc.

  18. Peaceful says:

    When I caught my Nex cheating redhanded on the security cameras of our vacation home I was like WTF?????? She was fat, ugly, unkempt… ewe! And then I found out Nex was taking a DLS to our vacation home who was ever worse…. the WTF’s went through the roof… I’m so glad I’m in a place now where I don’t care…. That home was right in the path of Irma and I hope she did some major damage. And even more pleased I got my stuff out of there when I did πŸ˜‰
    All thanks to you HG!

    1. Peaceful, we literally had just finished having intercourse, then here comes a knock at the door, and lo and behold it is his 53 year sugar mama/IPSS, who he said is just a friend who showed up out of the blue, who happens to live 8 hours away.

      This brainwashed voleenteer has absolutely no respect for herself, or me because to this day, she still contiues to see him. All he ever did was bad mouth her while he was trying to hoover me back in.

      1. Peaceful says:

        Hg1fan, it’s so aweful how they treated us. I was doing pretty well, but suffering a setback last night and today. The love fraud aspect has me reeling. Dr. Q. Has a good attitude. She’s one tough cookie. I don’t know if reading all this stuff is helping or hurting me at this point. I feel lost right now.

      2. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        Thank you! πŸ˜€πŸ˜›πŸ˜Ž

        We all have setbacks – I personally have found it helpful to talk to people who have had similar experiences because it’s difficult to find people to relate to re these matters. You will have good days and bad days – they pass… but as time goes on it gets better – it really does.

      3. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        After you come to terms with the fact you loved a lie and an image you go through the grieving process.

        this honestly is like death and rebirth.

        I needed this last shit storm of a relationship for me to wake up and look at myself and stop my own self-destructive patterns.

      4. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        To be fair you really don’t know what he tells her about you – he’s probably bad mouthing you to her at he same time.

        You said it yourself – what they say to one whore they say to another.

      5. HG Tudors # 1 fan says:

        Twilight, one of my brothers was too. They can be extremely difficult, you are right. Yes, my relationship was complete utter hell with, the lesser somatic.

        He was an alcoholic drunk who would come home from the bar drunk covered in blood from head to toe, due to being in a bar fight with a group of guys, or who ever. It was never his fault by the way.

        He was a very handsome man with the body of a Greek Toga God, who had a impeccable sex drive that was out of this world.

        He lived in the gym, and had no major interest except sex and being the center of attention. The lesser was very competitive with others and was very possessive and controlling with me. His jealousy and rage was out of this world.

        I allowed this creature to isolate me from my friends and my life style that I once enjoyed living.

        Never Again!

        1. Twilight says:


          I understand it took me awhile to find myself again after my husbands death.
          They isolate me and well let’s just say I believe hell is a vacation spot in comparison to what they put me through.

          I had an experience with a man in the military once when I was younger, a teenager the only time I ever snuck out i was followed home, he pinned me up against the house and….my grandfather showed up just in time and I saw a side of him I never had before. Believe me when I say the look in his eyes was enough to tell me never to sneak out again…..

      6. HG Tudors # 1 fan says:

        HarleenQ, I never said he didn’t smear me to her, not once. He told her to her face what she was in front of me, a friend/IPSS, he also told her what i was, his girlfriend/IPPS. I know for a fact he was leading her on, and lying to her. That is what narcissist do. This woman is super wealthy, and decent looking. Perfect target for residual benefits.

        He told me what his motives were, his motives were to work her for as much money as he can get.

        I said what if she does not cooperate, words out his mouth, ” “then that bitch won’t be getting this dick” typical behavior of a lesser. It’s disgusting and unacceptable, which is why I left.
        I got tired of hurting, and being disrespected.

        I knew someone was in our bed because there was a bottle of lube on his side of the bed. We don’t use lube whatsoever. I questioned him about it, and he said he used it to apply on his new tattoo, and to make matters worse, the tattoo was of my name on the back of his shoulder blade. One of many tacky tattoos he had on his body.

  19. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

    Oh I find it hilarious when they down grade …

    1. HG Tudors # 1 fan says:

      What is one mans trash, is another mans treasure.

    2. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

      i have this feeling if your narc were doing that to you with some other female that wouldn’t be your mentality.

      I’m slightly confused…

      you seem to be going hard for this hypothetical female as if you identify with the female….like the other woman or the woman the narc chose over someone else….

      I still stand where I stand on this matter. I don’t have on every female – it really depends on the female and the situation.

      1. HG Tudors # 1 fan says:

        I lived with my narc, I was a IPPS, until I found out he had a IPSS who he said was his sugar mama, who he let stay in our house while I was visiting my sick mother.

        After discovering his other life with this woman who he said he used for money, I left for the second time, and never went back. It has been over a year since I have seen my Lesser Somatic, who is still seeing the woman who is 17 years his senior. This woman knows her place and is okay with it.

        I was right there when he stated he was just friends with her, and she had a total look of shock on her face. I knew for a fact he had obviously lead her on. Prior to this woman showing up at our house, he was slowly triangulating me with her while training.

        When we were all face to face in the living room, he nearly broke her hand for pointing it in my face, and told her to watch the way she fucking speaks to me.

        Again HQ, we are all the same in their eyes. You were never the only woman, or the main woman, nor will you ever be. HQ you like myself are one of many women. Just another woman.

        On to the next one.

      2. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        Your ex sounds like a character. That behavior is fucked up and I’m sorry you went through that – especially when your mother was sick.

        I’m never just another woman because I don’t perceive myself that way – this is when I stop seeing things from their perspective – it’s not that I can’t- it’s that I choose not to because I know I’m not a cookie cutter chick and if they wanna basic and not realize that they weren’t quality enough to realize my quality.

        Again remember I can see what you are saying and I can completely understand the narcs perspective but that is when I stop caring and I choose to see it through MY own – I wil never ever let a man treat me like a basic replaceable chick ever because I am not and my next guy better act accordingly or he will be replaced pretty fast.

        I choose not to see their perspective once we get to this point. It is an active choice. I won’t let anyone make me feel like that anymore. Just because someone thinks something doesn’t mean it’s true. It’s frustrating and well infuriating that we are all the same in their eyes but it doesn’t make it true. I think that is one of the biggest issues I had dealing with the narc relationship.

        I value myself and I can’t believe I let my ex piece of shit treat me like that. I promise you had I known anyone would make the cut with my ex I would have cut that asshole off so fast and went on to the next.

        i hope your ex narc isn’t bothering you anymore.

      3. My ex was a narcissist/sociopath, like HG, only difference was he was a lesser somatic, who was a Navy Seal Sniper, his job description fit him perfectly. No remorse or consious for what he did. He was a loud mouth with no filter. I have since moved on.

      4. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        I’m glad you have moved on.

        HG is more than a sociopath he is a psychopath he has an affective piece that is missing (no offense HG it is a strength in many other ways).

        I have never dated a man in the military.

        Do you like bad boy types?

        1. Twilight says:


          I have never dated a sniper yet I was close to one. I am sure he was one of HGs kind, to me thou he was my brother (not by blood by choice).

          They can be difficult and stubborn as a mule. I can only imagine what you went through

      5. narc affair says:

        Hi Dr. H…I love your attitude and how youll never let a man treat you second rate but if youre actively looking for a psychopath thats all youll ever get bc they only love themselves. I get being drawn to them bc they are fascinating creatures but you will never find one that will value you the way you described you want to be valued. They will only play games as they are a narcissist. I cant ever imagine any narcissist ever treating anyone genuinely with respect or being faithful to them thats not in their language.

      6. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        Narc affair,

        Thank you πŸ˜›

        let me clarify – I’m not looking for one – I just happen to be attracted to them. You make valid points. I would love to meet a man who could interest me and not be a psychopath lol!

        I can’t help what I’m attracted to – I can assure you it’s annoying lol. I am rarely attracted to people and of course when I am they happen to me narcissists or psychopaths πŸ™„

        It would be lovely to be attracted to a man who ended up not being a narc or a psychopath – but for some reason my southern regions don’t wake up for anyone else.

        1. jenna says:

          Doc, that’s tough. Ur heart n ‘southern regions’ tell u to go for the psychopath, n ur mind tells u no. What a difficult place we find ourselves in, me n probably many others here included.

      7. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        Narc affair,

        Ain’t that the truth lol πŸ€‘πŸ˜›πŸ€“πŸ€£


        Now you know why I’m single lol. I can’t be with a psychopath because they will do what they do and I can’t be with a typical man because of so many reasons I can’t even get into them lol.

        I guess I’ll just be a plant until some unique person comes along lol.

      8. narc affair says:

        Hi Dr. H…i do understand what you mean bc ive felt this way about my narc that no one will ever come close to what he is and i think its bc its so built up and facade. Its exciting bc its not reality. For example if you were diagnosed tomo with terminal cancer do you think any psychopath would stay by your side and give you what you needed most? I only ask bc a therapist asked me this same question. I do get the excitement and fascination of it all. Its hard to go from such extremes to normal again. Normal healthy seems boring and dull. Its a definite brain f up. They surge the brains chemicals to a point you become addicted to those types of people to get a fix and feel heightened. Normal feels numb.

      9. HG Tudors # 1 fan says:

        At the end of the day he was using , and triangulating the both of us. I can except the truth, after all, the key to seizing the power is acceptance & going no contact.

    3. Twilight,

      My ex was definitely one of HGs, kind. A lot of the men in the military are lesser somatics, which explains that mad mans behavior who pinned you against the wall. Thank goodness for your grandpas appearance that day. Sorry you had to go through that.

      1. Twilight says:


        I am not sorry, yes it scared me and I learned never to make my Grandfather angry. It was the moment I learned the difference between my Grandfather, Grandmother and lessors. I just didn’t comprehend the differences.
        It was not long after this my mentor died and I was blind and looking to replace the connection I had with her. If this hadn’t happened I doubt I ever would have made the choice I did with my husband.

  20. Sandra says:

    Shamefully guilty of all accusations, including the shallow comparing.

    I’m not so warped by the narc to transfer my disgust for him onto her. My first urge was to warn the Panic Pick but that’s gonna fail. So I tip my tin hat to her and wish her the best as she keeps the heat off me.

    No judging here. I’m just the idiot in the corner with the tin foil hat and NarcGoggles.

  21. Diva says:

    I can honestly state that I have never once looked on facebook or any other medium, to view what my ex narc is up to and who with. My logic (although I use that word in a light hearted fashion) is my usual line…..ignorance is bliss….I don’t want to know…….what I don’t know will not hurt me……I can almost pretend that it isn’t even happening……Diva

    1. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


      I don’t look either – what you don’t no know can’t hurt you – I want to pretend he never existed – I want to believe in my mind he has died – he doesn’t exist.

      1. Diva says:

        Hi Dr HQ….”I want to believe in my mind he has died – he doesn’t exist.”

        I can do this……I call it my “off switch.” However I don’t really know if I switch off the narc or I switch off myself……

        Anyway…..do you know why some of us on here can push that off switch and switch the narc off easier than others……..(that is not to say that I found it easy but I now know I can do it with sheer determination.) Is it stubbornness, will power, some other character trait or something else?

        I get nervous asking questions on here as I always fear that I may not be prepared for the answer……but I guess I always have my off switch to fall back on in an emergency!!!!!!………Diva

      2. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        A simplified explanation: There are many reasons some people on here get “stuck” on their narcs. Some reasons go across all types of people and others appear to be related to variations in psychopathology and experiences in addition to how we were raised – since we can’t discount the impact of early relationships and what not.
        If you want me to expand on this I will – but this is the simplified version.

        I can speak directly about myself. in the beginning it was hard – not because I loved him, missed him, or wanted him in any way it was the fact that everything I did never mattered. I felt as though I failed. I had failed myself because I saw everything but kept trying to tell myself “wow that’s a lot of effort to go through to deceive someone” – I had failed because I allowed someone treat me like a piece of shit when in reality I was the one in the relationship that was superior. What killed me was I did it all for nothing. The sacrifices…the stupid petty fights… the huge fights….how I allowed this to go on made me sick.

        What kills me even more inside is that I saw it all… the bullshit from start to finish. I even snooped – yet I didn’t listen to my Intuition. I didn’t want to believe what was in front of me – I didn’t even have then luxury of real denial.

        The reality is that my ex was a piece of shit to begin with from start to finish. He was such a self-centered, useless asshole he could barely give me basic – bare minimum effort in the relationship. The fact that I saw through it all from the start also may have helped me from not getting stuck. I knew I was with a monster – I knew what kindness of monster – Inside I knew it was all a lie. I was more than used to the idea that it was all a lie… and I think many people haven’t confronted and truly absorbed the lie . They are somewhere lost in the cognitive dissonance – understandably so (not a criticism people).

        My anger is what saved me and as time goes on peace and indifference kinda set in; however I get bursts of anger still.

        My anger and my pride have always saved me. When I have been at the bottom of what felt like was nothingness – and I have been low before – soenthign pushes me forward – no matter how depressed I have gotten – and let me stress I have been really really depressed from breakups.

        I realize now I was primed for my recent ex by the loser before and I am very well aware of my strengths and weaknesses and how my weaknesses can be exploited. I was my own worst enemy. I needed anything after the first narc relationship – if you could call it that – in my mind he was just a guy I had blah sex with a lot. I even said that to him – he seemed surprised that i would say or think that.

        I realize my need for escape, excitement, and infatuation drove me to anything I could grasp onto during that time period when I broke up with my first narc.

        I was and am my own worst enemy.

      3. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        I clearly recognized how fucked in the head my relationship was while I was in it but lemme tell ya…

        The more that time passes… the more distance I get from the situation and I’m truly horrified at how disgusting I was treated and blatently disrespectful and selfish he was. He never gave me anything. He was never really nice to me unless I was giving him sex or agreeing with him … or giving him something… or it made him directly look like a “good person”.

        I never existed in that relationship.

        The fact that I was a product of convenience and that anyone would do – that it doesn’t matter how much I did for him and how great I was… held me back for awhile but now it pushes me forward.

      4. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        * may people haven’t accepted (not absorbed) it was all a lie.

      5. geyserempath says:

        Dr. HQ:

        Wow, this resonated with me and I thank you for sharing it:

        “I realize my need for escape, excitement, and infatuation drove me to anything I could grasp onto during that time period when I broke up with my first narc. I was and am my own worst enemy.”

        That was me in a nutshell. I forfeited my marriage, one son who no longer speaks to me, my self-respect, and self-esteem for the escape, excitement, and infatuation with my LMV Narc. I, too, was my own worst enemy.

        I have not gone No Contact, yet, but am getting closer as the anger builds of never meaning anything to him, it wasn’t personal, and being shelved so easily. Women are not lining up for my ex narc and that should have been a warning right from the beginning.

    2. Twilight says:

      I wish I had an off switch, I know he is still there…..Yet I could say I wish I had an off switch to the world to. I am usually thankful after enough time has passed Even thou I know he is there it is easier to blend things…

      1. narc affair says:

        Great post Dr. H and i can relate to so much you said. I have the off switch too but with my present narc it doesnt work as well.
        What youd mentioned about the anger stage im at. Im more peeved than angry. How dare he do the things hes done to me. Anger can be a great source of strength and energy. Its helped me with devaluations. This morning he tried one of his subtle covert devalues and bc i understand it now i let it slide off my back. I am getting to the point i dont care. Time really does resolve but its too bad it takes some of us years to see things clearly.
        The off switch is so nice to have! Education about narcissism better equips us to have that off switch.

  22. T. says:

    He is with who? Wow really! OMG no way. Whatever I’m over it.

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