A Very Hollywood Narcissist
You will no doubt recognise Mr Harvey Weinstein in the picture above as he issues a clear message to somebody out of camera shot. You cannot have failed to notice the slew of accusations against Weinstein ranging from inappropriate attempts at engaging in sexual interaction with women through to sexual assaults and rape. So far, more than thirty accusers have come forward although undoubtedly that number is set to rise.
Weinstein has apparently fled LA by private jet to the US $ 40 000 a month The Meadows rehab facility in Arizona. The mainstream media has bandied around phrases referring to him seeking treatment for sex addiction, that he is a sexual predator, he has abused his considerable power as a Hollywood producer but as ever one word is consistently missing – narcissist.
So, what are his accusers saying about him and how does this link to him being a narcissist? The analysis is based on what the accusers are stating as being true (and we will come to more of that in due course).
The French actress Lea Seydoux stated :-
“We were talking on the sofa when he suddenly jumped on me and tried to kiss me.
“I had to defend myself. He’s big and fat, so I had to be forceful to resist him. I left his room, thoroughly disgusted.
“I wasn’t afraid of him, though. Because I knew what kind of man he was all along.”
This behaviour shows a sense of entitlement and no regard for boundaries. He has no empathy for how a young woman would feel suddenly being treated in this manner.
The American actress, Heather Graham alleges he tried to force himself on her and told her his wife would have been fine with it.
“He could sleep with whomever he wanted when he was out of town. I walked out of the meeting feeling uneasy.
“There was no explicit mention that to star in one of those films I had to sleep with him, but the subtext was there.”
Once more there is a huge sense of entitlement not only with Ms Graham, but also with the perception that he could sleep with whomever he wanted. Yet again there is a failure to observe boundaries and moreover a lack of accountability. Not only does he not see or care that there might be a repercussion for such an unwanted advance, he goes further and states that his wife would have been fine with it. Note also the suggestion of subtext referred to by Ms Graham, which evidences the plausible deniability which we so often engage in. Had Ms Graham complained at the time, Weinstein would have course denied the accusation pointing out it was just the word of some crazed, wannabe young actress. Undoubtedly he would then have gone on to ruin her career, demonstrating the desire to exert control over an appliance and the application of punishment since Ms Graham would be painted ‘black’ for her treachery, even though Weinstein is the one in the wrong.
Model and actress Zoe Brock says she was brought back to Weinstein’s hotel room under false pretences in the south of France in 1997. It isn’t clear whether it was Weinstein or another who applied the false pretences, but either way, this is a further indicator of the narcissist at work. Lies have been told, manipulation has been applied and has either been done by Weinstein himself or through a Lieutenant on his behalf.
Brock explained that Weinstein emerged naked from another part of the suite and asked for a massage – once again no boundary recognition and a sense of entitlement, plus the usual lack of empathy for the individual placed in this situation.
“I did not want to do that and he asked if he could give me a massage… I didn’t know what to do and I felt that letting him maybe touch me a little bit might placate him enough to get me out of there somehow.”
Before long, Ms Brock fled into the bathroom. He banged on the door with his fists before eventually retreating, putting on a dressing gown and starting to cry.
This last paragraph provides us with further insight into Weinstein’s narcissism. When Brock fled, that was an act which wounded Weinstein. Her removing herself from him signalled to him that he was not important, that his control was not complete and he was wounded. His initial response was one of ignited fury as he banged on the door with his fists but this clearly drew no response from Ms Brock and more importantly no fuel and also wounded Weinstein further. He was forced to retreat and with his fuel levels being depleted by the wounding and the lack of additional fuelling appliances. Thus, withdrawal was his only option. Unsettled by his plummeting fuel levels and the potential for further wounding, his self-defence mechanism shifted and he began to cry. He was crying for himself as a consequence of the construct now starting to fall apart and also as a pity play in the hope that this would lure Ms Brock into being sympathetic and thus provide fuel to him.
Italian actress and director Asia Argento’s first dealing with Weinstein’s company Miramax was when she appeared in their crime drama B Monkey. She says she was left alone with him in a hotel room on the French Riviera after being told she was going to a Miramax party. Argento says she reluctantly agreed to give him a massage, but he then raped her.
Weinstein “terrified me, and he was so big”, she said. “It wouldn’t stop. It was a nightmare.”
“I know he has crushed a lot of people before. That’s why this story – in my case, it’s 20 years old, some of them are old – has never come out.”
Argento has not spoken out until now, saying she feared it would ruin her career to do so.
Once again there is the sense of entitlement, the lack of boundary recognition, the lack of empathy, the manipulation, the lies about the true intention and the threat of repercussion. Note that Ms Argento refers to being aware that he has crushed a lot of people before, therefore not only has this behaviour been systematic (further supported by the many revelations which are now coming forward) but it also exhibits the control that Weinstein exerted over people and as you know, control over everything is something we must have.
Mira Sorvino appeared in several of Weinstein’s films and has said that he sexually harassed her and tried to pressure her into having a physical relationship.
She was in a hotel room with him at the Toronto International Film Festival in 1995. Ms Sorvino explained that :-
“He started massaging my shoulders, which made me very uncomfortable, and then tried to get more physical, sort of chasing me around.”
Weeks later, she alleges he turned up to her apartment under the guise of having marketing ideas for the film.
“I opened the door terrified, brandishing my 20-pound Chihuahua mix in front of me, as though that would do any good.”
She told Weinstein her new boyfriend was on the way round, after which he apparently became dejected and left.
Once more there is the sense of entitlement, lack of boundary recognition, absence of empathy for how the victim of his behaviour would feel, a lack of accountability for his actions, manipulation and lying. Ms Sorvino’s comment about her new boyfriend being on his way around wounded Weinstein as not only was she rejecting him, she preferred somebody else. A Greater Narcissist, whilst wounded by such a comment would have kept his ignited fury in check and pressed on regardless, confident in his ability to charm and coerce to achieve the desired outcome. Weinstein, however, was wounded and he clearly anticipated further wounding. His dejection was an attempt to gain sympathy from Ms Sorvino, to gain fuel to address his wounding, but it failed and thus once again he was forced to withdraw.
The scale of the allegations covers not just actresses but those who worked in the various echelons of his company.
Various workers at the Weinstein film company have reported their unpleasant experiences dealing with Weinstein and this includes Emily Nestor who was a temporary front desk assistant who explained she had to refuse the advances of Weinstein on at least a dozen occasions. This evidences his sense of omnipotence and power, everybody is available to him and underlines his grandiosity – he can pick whoever he wants and they had better give him what he wants otherwise he would punish them.
Weinstein is clearly of the somatic cadre as his modus operandi to gaining fuel and extending control over appliances is through sexual overtures. Of course, this will be dressed up as him being a sex addict but it misses the fundamental point. Yes, he is an addict but he is addicted to fuel (just as all of our kind are) but he uses sex as a major method of gaining this fuel. Of course Weinstein will have sucked up the fuel at the lavish parties he threw, the glamorous ceremonies he attended, revelling in the applause and adulation from tertiary sources and Non Intimate Secondary Sources (friends, family and colleagues) but he wanted the more potent fuel from those he sought to make his Intimate Partner Secondary Sources. He had his wife as the Intimate Partner Primary Source but through these various acts of infidelity she was being devalued and we do not know what other behaviour she has had to endure – perhaps that will emerge over time.
The money, glamour, parties, beautiful people etc all fit within Weinstein belonging to the somatic cadre. He is not a physically attractive man however, overweight, out of shape, small piggy eyes and a face that would not look lost on the loser of a boxing bout but of course to certain somatic these physical shortcomings are not a problem. Firstly, the delusional nature of his narcissism will have told him that he was an adonis and irresistible to these people and as more and more victims piled up, this reinforced his notion of him being such a magnet for women. Secondly, he had his manipulative nature and the power of making or breaking people’s careers as a hugely influential force to ensure that he would achieve his aims most of the time. One does not have to have the looks of Brad Pitt to be of the somatic cadre.
So, the evidence from his accusers (and there is plenty more along similar lines to that detailed above) all supports that he is a narcissist. But what does Mr Weinstein have to say at this early stage to these allegations?
First of all, let us turn to the statement that has been issued on his behalf :-
Weinstein’s spokeswoman Sallie Hofmeister issued a statement in response to the allegations of sexual harassment and assault. She stated,
“Any allegations of non-consensual sex are unequivocally denied by Mr Weinstein,” she said. “Mr Weinstein has further confirmed that there were never any acts of retaliation against any women for refusing his advances.
“Mr Weinstein obviously can’t speak to anonymous allegations, but with respect to any women who have made allegations on the record, Mr Weinstein believes that all of these relationships were consensual. Mr Weinstein has begun counselling, has listened to the community and is pursuing a better path.”
What does this tell us? Most telling is the admission that Mr Weinstein believes that all of these relationships were consensual. This is noteworthy for two matters. Firstly, he is not denying the relationships took place, thus it is highly likely that he is admitting to acts of infidelity with regard to one or both of his two marriages. This evidences a lack of empathy for the ex-spouse and soon to be ex-spouse. It also shows once more his sense of entitlement. Secondly, an uninformed reader might see the use of the word ‘believes’ and think ‘oh sure he thought they were consensual’ with a shaken head of disbelief, but here is the rub, Weinstein will, from his narcissistic perspective believed that they were consensual because he is entitled to anything he wants, no means yes and he has to control everything. Nobody refuses him.
His spokesperson naturally denied any suggestion of criminality on his part and as Mandy Rice-Davies stated in the Profumo Affair, “well he would say that, wouldn’t he?” but not only is this careful management by his advisors, Weinstein will believe he has done nothing wrong because he is unaccountable in his world.
The final sentence is typical deflection and very much in the mould of But I Can Change as people are invited to consider him to be a lost and damaged soul who needs guidance and therapy. It is just facade management.
However, this is what the carefully stage-managed spokesperson has said on his behalf, how has Mr Weinstein responded since the explosion of these revelations?
When leaving his daughter’s home to get into a vehicle to whisk him away, presumably to the waiting private jet, he was reported as stating
“And you know I’ve always been loyal to you guys, not like those fucking pricks who treat you like shit. I’ve been the good guy,”
This sentence packs so much of his narcissism in, it is hugely interesting.
- I have always been loyal to you guys – he is convinced he is a decent person and is also seeking sympathy with this comment, further evidence of his delusions thinking and his bid for fuel;
- Not like those ‘fucking pricks’ who treat you like shit – deflection by lashing out at other individuals, provocation towards the unnamed ‘pricks’;
- Sense of victimhood – I am the decent fellow here who has always been good to you lot and look at how I am being treated now
- ‘I’ve been the good guy’ – as ever the facade fights to remain in place and the obsession with being seen as a decent person continues
- Sense of entitlement – I have been loyal to you and now in my hour of need you had better support me;
- Sense of treachery – referring to how he is being vilified.
The picture accompanying this article shows Weinstein giving the finger on both hands as he attends his lawyer’s office. Hardly the behaviour of a contrite individual who “has listened to the community and is pursuing a better path.” No, at this juncture this was a narcissist who was fuelled (he had several supporters with him when the picture was taken) and when confronted no doubt by a press pack this was Challenge Fuel, so Weinstein feeling fuelled and confident, but needing to assert his perceived superiority engaged in a provocative act to draw more fuel from those observing and to assert his supposed superiority.
Whilst at his daughter’s house she apparently telephoned the police concerned that her father was suicidal. The repeated wounding he felt as allegation after allegation landed against him, from people he regarded as loyal and under his control, was smashing holes in his construct and making him feel desperate, like his world was literally caving in on him. Add to this the condemnation from other members of the industry, the fact that BAFTA has suspended his membership and The Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences was considering his role and condemned his behaviour, add Mr Weinstein was facing massive wounds. Rather ironically, even Hillary Clinton stated that the funds Weinstein had donated to her presidential campaign would be donated to a charity instead. Once again, members of the brethren only look out for themselves.
Little wonder that he felt suicidal and was described as being in meltdown. Starved of fuel as hitherto reliable appliances turned off the provision of fuel as they turned their backs on him, he was also being repeatedly wounded, no wonder he commented
‘Guys, I’m not doing OK but I’m trying. I gotta get help. I’m hanging in, I’m trying my best.’
For once a statement of honesty in terms of him not doing okay, but once again his narcissistic self-defence mechanism kicks in as he refers to needing to get help, that he is “hanging in” (brave little soldier eh?) and he was “trying his best” so of course, feel sorry for the man, give him a break, he has realised he has made mistakes and is going to improve himself.
No he is not.
It is telling that when Weinstein met with executives of the film company before he was dismissed, he stated he wanted to go into heavy therapy and counselling in order to make a comeback. That is what matters to Weinstein ; himself. He is not going into therapy to be a better person, he is doing it because he has enough awareness (and no doubt suitably advised) that it is what he ought to do. He is doing it as facade management. He is doing it in order to draw fuel as part of a massive Pity Play, but most of all he is only doing it in the hope that he can stage a comeback. That is what is central to this current behaviour.
The executives were not persuaded and refused his request.
There is so much material that has emerged and is emerging to support the fact that Weinstein is one of us that it merits a book. However, the most damning indictment against him and one which reinforces what he is, is his utter lack of empathy.
Has he said sorry? Has he apologised? Has he been contrite?
No.
What do you think?
I have given you some clues in the article above, but can you apply your knowledge to ascertaining which school of narcissist Harvey Weinstein is?
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227 thoughts on “A Very Hollywood Narcissist”
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Brilliant analysis, HG. I wish I could spot them like you can.
Thank you 12345, keep reading and you will improve your ability to recognise.
Hi HG. I was waiting for you to write an article on this man and pleased you did.
I really don’t know what he is so through a process of elimination, I would say he’s definitely not a Greater; there is no smarmy charm, no calmness, no smoothness, no smiling menace… he cried, he stamped his feet and spat his dummy out, but there was not (as far as I’m aware), any low-level or serious violence towards his victims that would indicate a Lesser Narc. This leaves the Middle Narc bracket. I’m going to plug for Upper Mid-range with possible Lower-Greater traits, of course I could only vote for one category so I went with Upper Mid-range…
Glad you liked it Scout.
Hi HG
I have voted upper mid-range narcissist because of his awareness to manage the Facade at this juncture etc.
of course the pity plays the Crying etc stood out straight off the bat as mid-range.
I really enjoyed your article here HG and it’s strange that I didn’t know it was going to end in a vote but I already felt my virtual “HG muscles” shall we call them flexing as I was picking out in my mind what he sounded like…
Plus after everything I have learnt from you and I’m still learning it’s amazing how the article felt so clear in every way and the behaviours written about so familiar in this subject of yours.
…and all that aside it was just a thoroughly informative and enjoyable article to read..albeit so horrible for the ladies involved ofcourse..and so no one enjoys any of that obviously not.
However, great article HG…. which obviously just rolls off your pen so very easily with complete clarity on the matter. So interesting.
Debs.
Based on this sentence:
A Greater Narcissist, whilst wounded by such a comment would have kept his ignited fury in check and pressed on regardless, confident in his ability to charm and coerce to achieve the desired outcome.
I posit he is not a Greater. Plus, Greaters look damn good! Harvey looks and behaves like a nasty-ass lesser. Zero charm, just thuggish behavior. Yuck! Those poor women.
These are interesting HG
The man has the charm of a rock….
ULN
He has some cognitive functions
He has some wealth
He isn’t like by peers yet believe he is
Aggressive in nature
The pity play thou could put him in the mid category yet I have seen this in a ULN.
LMR
Somatic yes. He runs away from conflict. Pathetic. Thats why I think he’s a UMR.
Doesnt matter…either way he’s disgusting on every level.
True or false HG? UMR? Ty.
The picture on it’s own indicates to me immediately that this man is not a Greater. I doubt that a Greater would be caught on camera either making these gestures or looking like this poor excuse for a man, who obviously lacks any finesse. Also in my experience very few Greaters would have needed to resort to force or violence to engage a woman, they know charm works wonders, there is no charm involved whilst raping someone, forcing yourself on someone or just appearing naked and demanding some action. This type of behaviour seems typical for this man and in my opinion it is not the MO of a Greater narc – therefore that is immediately ruled out for me.
This man has some control of himself but there are instances whereby he obviously does not…..this picture shows one such instance, as do the rape allegations and the hammering on the bathroom door with his fists…he is quick to resort to heated fury and not afraid of violence to achieve his goals and nor does he appear afraid of any repercussions and as such I believe there is a taint of a Lesser in there. The comment that NO means YES also points to Lesser traits. However, I believe that although this man has some traits of a Lesser he has more traits of a Midrange.
In my opinion this mans Mid Range behaviour manifests as ignited fury, crying and retreating when wounded. A Mid range is capable of violence but it is not his usual go to…..passive aggressiveness is usually more his style. Most of this mans alleged conduct has been committed behind closed doors between himself and the victim, this strikes me as Mid range behaviour. Another Mid Range trait in this man is the engineering of pity plays……crying to the victim for sympathy and showing dejection to evoke sympathy. Other Mid Range tactics are when this man attempts to state how loyal he has been to the media, he is convinced that he is a decent person, he plays the victim and the good guy. When the construct starts to fall, feelings of suicide come to the fore, (more pity) while he also appears to be “trying his best,” as he seeks treatment purely to engage in façade management. HG’s comment “because he has enough awareness that is what he ought to do” makes me also believe this man is more Midrange than a Lesser.
So based on what I have read and stated above I am voting Lower Mid Range……..
Diva
Thanks for this HG.
I had had him down as a narc soon after the story made the headlines, not a somatic, though It’s clear now you’ve explained.
I understand the reason why he’s claiming ” Sex addiction” as if there’s such a thing ! I also fully understand as you’ve explained the reason why he says he’s going to get ” therapy” ..
Yesterday when I read the headlines about his alleged suicide threats all I could see was a narc who was desperate to regain some control through pity play . His fuel supplys hemorrhaging at an alarming rate with no sign of him being able to stop it . His wife has now said she’s divorcing him after she said she would stand by him so he’s now lost his IPPS. He must be deeply wounded on top of all the relentless criticism .
I get the feeling Weinstein’s in Chaos mode now ? or pretty damn close if not . Is he ?
As for school It’s a difficult one because I know so little about him but at a guess Upper Lower .
Thanks again HG .
It’s always good to understand how narcs work but to see such a high profile case played out in front of the worlds media & get so much accurate information is fascinating . ..
* Upper Lesser.
I haven’t been on this site for awhile and came here today, specifically to see if you had posted anything on Harvey Weinstein… glad I wasn’t disappointed! I’m incredibly outspoken in my circle about narcissism, partially because this website gave me the language I needed to express concepts I couldn’t put words around before.
After I read The New Yorker piece yesterday and all of Weinstein’s responses thus far, I was saying in my head “this dude has got to be an Upper Mid-Ranger” so I consulted the Fuel Matrixes, which are my “favorite” postings of yours. It’s tough to decide between UMRN and LGN.
At first glance, it seems that Harvey Weinstein does not have enough control of himself, or enough charm, to be a Greater. However, he is historically pretty aggressive and arrogant, more so than UMRNs usually are. He knew he had a reputation and that didn’t really bother him either. In fact, he flaunted it to his victims, showing he was less concerned about the façade or maybe that he was just that arrogant that he thought no one would ever have the guts to take him down.
He is a known bully who utilized massive amounts of manipulation, could call on anyone to have someone destroyed or be protected. Even NBC wouldn’t air the story when it was ready months ago. He was known for violent raging outbursts. He seems more aggressive than the UMRN would be… but, there seems to be some level of lack if true self-awareness in what he is. He’s not handling this like a Greater would and his pity playing is what keeps throwing me back to the UMRN. He’s in control, charming, charismatic, and intelligent enough that he can’t be a Lesser. But he certainly wasn’t well-revered or in control enough to be UMN or UGN. People dealt with his BS because they had to, not because they wanted to.
I’m excited to see what you end up calling it.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=XV_W6kPqR9U
Female. Hollywood. Brit. Nailed it.
TELL ME SHES NOT A NARC.
That should read: I went with mid because ALTHOUGH he is impulsive……he has some control…
He didn’t apologize so maybe a greater. What is his wife?
Excellent read, H.G. I was thinking about what your thoughts might be when these allegations came about.
Two questions. I don’t recall, but while I know you’re a Greater, are you are an Upper Greater, correct?
Also, any thoughts on the Las Vegas shooter? Just a total psychopath?
HG..this is so impressive you are writing about this.
He is a Upper Greater…
He knows exactly ehat he is doing.
P.S. He is a Butt Ugly Greater Narc.
HG, based on your description I would say Upper Mid-ranger. He displays an increased functioning and greater awareness has the ability of a wide range of manipulation. He also has a degree of calculation, and has some degree of control of his fury. As in when wounded he banged on the door and then retreated. He has the belief he is a good person and the victims are the problem, he believes the relationships were all consensual. He does not accept liability for his behaviour and reject accusations. He counters with pity plays and blame shifting. When exposed vanishes to Arizona under the pretence of obtaining treatment and therapy in order to change into a better person. His fuel matrix is connected with his work environment and has sufficient loyal followers to assist in the punishments of victims as they all thought their careers would be at risk should he be exposed. He wants people to give him a break a second chance!
I’m thinking he is of lesser variety. To me he seems to act somewhat instinctively, has very little impulse control, and his actions and responses are not well thought out. I do hope you will provide us with the answer at some point and time HG(?)
Wow very thought provoking!!! Im a bit surprised over the somatic cadre bc i thought somatics were fixated on their looks and using those looks to ensnare. Most narcissists in the entertainment business would exhibit grandiosity and entitlement. The description given him made me laugh lol power can cloud a persons ego and blind them to the reality that theyre not all that. Im sure hes had many an actress throw herself at him and use him as well to get their career further ahead. Many actresses wouldnt think twice to use their femininity to bribe a man like this. Many actresses are narcissists as well. This in turns validates his overinflated belief in himself that every woman will want him and succumb to him bc of his power and the attraction of that power. Eventually this sense of omnipotence and entitlement catches up and we are seeing him face accountability which he is struggling and refuses to do. He is using the plan to get therapy as a way to atone for what hes done. Hes only sorry he got found out. He does not want his dirty dealings to come to light and im sure is panicking and grasping at straws to bring about damage control.
I voted upper midrange for the following reasons:
I feel hes teetering between being fully aware of what he is and using that to manipulate those around him but yet i feel theres a part to him where he really feels hes a “good guy” and each time hes wounded hes been victimized. I also think he is a victim narcissist. I can imagine him telling his love interests that his wife no longer loves him and wont have sex with him and how lonely he is. The fact he cried after being turned down is an infantile reaction to not getting what he wants and feeling sorry for himself. Hes an overgrown man with a fat ass ego who thinks the world owes him bc he is the king and can wave his hand and axe someones career at will. In actuality hes preying on women who are trying to build their career by bullying them into submitting to his pervy wiles with the threat of ruining them if they dont follow thru. We see him for the coward he is. Now that the spotlight is on his filth hes scurrying away like a creepy crawly and trying to hide in hopes the whole ordeal blows over. I hope more women come forward and smear his face in his own filth. This needs to be heavily frowned upon in the workplace and those that take advantage of others this way need to face stiff consequences!! Shame shame!!!
Oh, HG, I’m dying to know the answer!
I’m going with Upper Mid because: 1. Combo of blaming others and whining while still lashing out; 2. Have to be pretty up there to get as far as he has professionally; 3. Edifice cracked pretty completely once it all came out (I think a Greater would have more fail safe networks and sources in place.); and 4. Method of embedding feels… sloppy, less well thought-out than would be seen in Greater.
The smear campaigns though smack of a Greater…
Oh, more games like this please HG! What fun!
What a fun exercise for we learners!
I was wondering what you thought about this guy and the Las Vegas Shooter for that matter… I think you have described him perfectly here. I thought the same thing. I did see a man on CNN call him a sociopath though. I suppose the news people have to be careful not to “diagnose” someone or face potential law suits. They could describe what you have said… without naming him as one. But you are right, the mainstream public is clueless about what he is… at least we are not, thanks to you HG.
HG
I went with Mid because he is:
Impulsive (jumped on the girl and tried to kiss her)
Has some control and plans things somewhat (where the Lesser does not).
He knows what he is doing but never owns responsibility (the Lesser does not know)
Pounded on bathroom door but changed tactics when that didnt work and used crying a pity plays (hallmark of a mid).
Withdrew when no fuel forthcoming
Believes he is a good person and wants to be seen as decent (media)
Feels vilified and plays the victim doing his best while using massive pity play, threatens suicide. Will attend therapy/rehab to demonstrate it is not his fault and that he needs help (but only for appearances).
Lots of other things but they applied to all schools (entitlement, no boundaries etc).
A Greater? Pfft…that doesnt just come with money or status. His behaviour shows no class or intelligence at all.
Besides-didnt you give us a head start by pointing out in the article that he was eliminated as a Greater in the the Mira Sorvino example?
Let me know if I need to dedicate more time to my studies.
Interesting NA, I am pleased you at least picked up on the clue that I mentioned, many people seem to have missed that (or perhaps they disagree with me – the impertinence!)
Weinstein is on the top of the scale of narcissists the very best narcissists are the covert ones and the ones who play the victim so well and actually admit fault for a brief moment to appear somewhat human so that they can fool you to thinking that they are actually exhibiting empathy or sorrow but in reality it is just a ploy to get more fuel and to make them better narcissists he will gain so much information and knowledge in this sex addict therapy session that he will be able to be more covert. He will even enjoy a winning over the therapist with his charm. His greatest accomplishment will be when they say you are healed or you have completed treatment and you are a better person because this way he will know that he has fooled even the most knowledgeable people in fixing him. Only when they are found out do they bow to this extreme fake sense of sorrow and grief and fake empathy. He is on the brink of losing everything and this means he’s going to lose his fuel so he will do everything he can to get more fuel even if it is admitting that he’s wrong because he needs people to feel sorry for him so that he can pretend that he is changing but in reality he will not. I have personally experienced this with an x and I can tell you that this shit is scary when a narcissist and a very very charming one can fool the therapist and they do it all the time… it’s insane . Treatment is actually pointless the only person that benefits is the narcissist. I can I already actually see his smile as he leave some of his sessions because he’ll be like yeah I got them wrapped around my finger …. I remember when the person I was involved with told me that his therapist said that he really didn’t need to come back anymore and that he had everything under control. And I believe he did he had her under control. In fact he left a session and told me that she said I was toxic. Yep , that was enough for me to say bye bye forever .
Ginger Blue
While I’m sure what you said is often the case, some narcissists can benefit from therapy. My exhusband was forced to go into an alcohol treatment program or lose his job. He was forced to go thru therapy and he learned some, in his words, “hard truths.” This and his participation in AA has made him more aware of other people’s needs, feelings and rights.
He will always be a narcissist. That can not change, but he is much more respectful of other people’s rights and therefore much less abusive. Therapy and AA greatly increased his understanding and his cognitive empathy and made him a more openminded and tolerant man.
There is varying degrees of narcissism and I’m not sure what crimes your husband has committed against you, I hear your sympathy for him and I had the same for a long time but not anymore. Basically I decided I didn’t want to take care of him when he gets older. Nope .Doesn’t deserve my care or for anyone else to care for him for that matter.
Ginger Blue
I don’t believe I have sympathy for my ex-husband. I’m sure if he thought anyone had “sympathy” for him it would just anger him. And I certainly have no desire or plan to take care of him as he ages. My point was just that some narcissists are able to gain benefit from therapy and the insights that it brings them.
Weinstein too boorish to be that covert. Covert traits he displays on TV such as victim stance, pity ploys, blame projection etc aren’t cleverly done. Coverts unbelievably deceptive.
Upper Lesser. Very Trumpesque….
For upper greaters I would suggest: Strauss-Kahn ; Cosby.
Fascinating to read this through the Narc goggles and thanks for the insight HG.
I went with lower greater. I think despite the massive hit his façade took, he has enough secondary and tertiary sources to keep him fueled as all his minions jump ship.
Can he get a charge from all the negative fuel he must be getting from the general public?
Yes but the wounding is outweighing it
No way is he a greater. He’s using his position of power to bully which is not a very clever tool to control and manipulate others. A greater would be far less obvious than that. Plus he got caught right HG!!
Well, I do not know him or observed him. Due to your description I would say an upper midrange or lower greater. Self-pity, emotional blackmail and so on. I totally miss the charm of the Greater. There is no charm at all. A greater would act in a different way. He would use all his power to manipulate and blackmail the press, he would try to stop these women with several attorneys to talk about it and would deny that he had some kind of relationship with these women at all. “All business-contacts” ” Of course, they are beautiful women, but unfortunately they have too much fantasy.I am happily married for many years, of course I had one or two affairs, that is quite normal, isn`t it ?” “They are envious/disappointed, because I did not give them the film role, they wanted. I have to take the right woman for the right job. That is no fault or is it? ” I am an attractive and powerful man,of course there are some women who want to have a relationship with me.” He would not withdraw himself, not now.
Another way he could react: He would keep quiet for the moment and say: “The truth will always win. We will see” (Winning and charming smile)
I am sure that he knows, what he has done. Therefore he belongs to the greater of your kind. But that is the only reason to place him as a lower greater. He is aware of what he has done.
A credible analysis
HG, thank you.
I am still learning. I discover things, which were lost.
You are welcome. This is what this blog is all about.
Yeah, very juicy scandal…
As for me, Harvey is an Upper Lesser, “polished” by big money.
His brother Bob is more interesting persona. He easily could be a Greater. He is a “grey cardinal” of their family.
Their mother was a Mid-Range, “tough woman”. Harvey was her “golden child” and she always protected him. She died recently (one year ago or something like that) and Bob, probably, decided – “Finally, it is time to show Harvey who the Daddy is”. Two brothers never been fond of each other.
However, I don’t exclude the political motive, but anyway, Bob could use this opportunity also.
I think this is a great observation about Bob… Bob is very likely to be an Upper Greater. Very controlled and manipulative, doesn’t revel in the spotlight yet still feared.. known to switch on a dime. Silent aggression. Think about the movies that he chose to make. He used a textbook smear campaign against his ex-wife. He will find a way to come out (mostly) clean in this. He probably has a hand in a lot of this to rid himself of this dead weight and high risk that Harvey had become and has probably been thinking about this since 2015. His statement about his brother is “perfect.” It’s true, absolves himself of blame, and makes excellent facade management.
“My brother Harvey is obviously a very sick man. I’ve urged him to seek immediate professional help because he is in dire need of it. His remorse and apologies to the victims of his abuse are hollow. He said he would go away for help and has yet to do so.
He has proven himself to be a world-class liar and now rather than seeking help he is looking to blame others. His assertion is categorically untrue from A to Z. I pray he gets the help that he needs and I believe that it is him behind all of these stories to distract from his own failure to get help”
Valid observations.
Yes, that’s what I meant exactly, Gem.
Bob is a “brain” of all that business. Harvey is a mere “front page”. He has always been manipulated by Bob. He has always done a “dirty job” for Bob. Pawn.
Harvey’s behavior is orchestrated by his “people” now. If he acted on his own, he would do it differently and in that case we would see his whole lesser’s splendor.
Honestly, having such big money, he could make himself a poor dear white swan! But instead, we see a cheap show. He pays his money to wrong people. Lol.
I think definitely lower mid range. His lack of control is usually in private unless seriously pushed. Victim like. He reveals himself by what he doesn’t say. Not do difficult to spot. If he was all lesser he would have been rumbled sooner.
Excellent article, HG. I did not know that there was so much information about him. I saw him on the news and I found him disgusting.
I think he was convinced he was never going to be caught. He seems to be convinced he is above the law. He is vindictive if he would go so far as to ruin his victims’ career as a punishment for not letting him exert control over then.
In my opinion, he is a Greater.
I think he is an Upper Greater N.
Thanks HG what information would you need?
Guys, you are giving him too much credits! He is a dirty, uneducated stupid, dirty cheap lower lesser! ha ha ha
The thing is, nobody ever liked him. Nobody ever said what a nice guy he is. He was one of the most powerful men in Hollywood( no doubt he is clever) and he was feared. But he fooled noone. I don’t think he is a Greater.
HG, i wondered if you would write about this , once again I feel frustrated that the N word is not used when an opportunity to educate arises on this mass level , but then again I think if the N word was used everyone would think , oh well this person can’t be a N because they don’t sexually harass on a grand scale or rape 🙄 Bit of a no win unless you understand the full and wide spectrum . It would be easy to assume Greater due to his glamour Hollywood success but maybe he’s a Elite Mid Somatic if that exists
Valid observations re perception by the masses
I chose upper mid range.
It’s impressive how well you can read people.
May I also ask, Mr Tudor, what type of narcissist, in your opinion is President Trump? Thank you.
He is without doubt an Upper Lesser.
Mid range narcissist.? Also, sex addict, and thoroughly obnoxious, misogynist toad.
Lower mid range
My ex showed up drunk to pick our 2 year old from pre school. The school called me and wouldn’t fully admit to her being drunk even though they had to drive her home. Had to get my mum to call her as I had been blocked by phone. Mum told me she was crying hysterically to the point of not being able to understand her. That sealed the deal. Whenever she drank it would be verbal abuse, hysterical crying claiming she needed help or actual violence towards me. So I sent her an e mail the next day, a nice one telling her not to show up to school drunk and various stuff about having to protect my son from such acts. First she denied it then threatened me with the police then went to the school and had me removed from being contacted by the school again including picking him up. HG what group does that behavior represent?
Likely to be Lower Mid Range but would need more information to be sure
Ahh ok. Saw your response after I commented. Ty…. back to school I go…….
I am so sorry Gareth, I don’t know how you are keeping your cool. The system is certainly rigged against men in these situations.I remember my Mum picking me up like that when I was six or seven, she could barely stand up, I knew at that point that somehow being around my mum was not a safe place to be. She has already revealed herself, and I do hope things work out for you and your boy.
Hi Mrs Linton,
Thanks for your words. In a way I’m used to it. I thought I was dealing with someone with a drinking problem but I now see it’s much deeper issues than that.
In the end my mother hid behind the alcohol but really it was the person who she was who was the problem. Just my opinion. I spent most of my life looking after her (what an apprenticeship!) Now I am no contact I just get smeared. All the best with setting your boundaries.
Hi gareth…thats awful. Im sorry youre having to deal with protecting your son that way. My grandmother was a alcoholic and same situation with her raising my mum. Fortuneatly she had others raise her most of her childhood. Id try and fight for your parental rights. Thats so wrong that she would drive intoxicated.
I believe it’s part of the narc habit of believing they are above the law and will not get caught however I think she may have realized after sobbing up how close she was to being caught. Although she still does it of that I’m sure. I know her habits to well. Don’t worry I will be protecting my son from this.
Definitely a narcissist. How can anyone doubt that?
Upper Lesser Somatic!
I was going to plump for mid range. In a different social genre I have met someone similar. I think his social situation and career makes him look like a greater but his lack of success in persuasion or patience in implementing a successful golden period takes him down a level. He had money and fame but still got rejected over and over until he felt like he needed to force himself?
I have him pegged as a LMRN. I will get back later with why I think so.
OK, I have reread the post and I still feel he is an LMRN. Lea Seydoux was able to successfully escape sexual assault, which might have been more difficult if he were a lesser, because lessers are more prone to physical force and fury. Although, he did show fury with Ms Brock (banging on the doors) it dissipated quickly into tears (pity play) due to wounding. The pity play (the suicide ploy) is used the most by the MRN’s when wounded, as opposed to fury, which is more likely to be used by the lesser when he is wounded. The picture of him flipping off reporters is classic lesser conduct (I grew up with that behavior), however, there can be an overlap between schools (ULN is close to LMRN), also, when a mid-range is well fueled he has the energy to be malign and lash out (middle finger). Harvey’s appearance is very unattractive; he looks like a big, fat slob. He reminds me of my unkempt and obese lessers but he has awareness and that puts him in the mid-range category because my bombastic lessers have absolutely NO awareness. Zero. Plus, Harvey puts energy into lies, manipulation, planning and punishing. Energy that a lesser might not possess or be inclined to use; they prefer instant gratification. This is a great way to learn about all the elements of NPD. I thoroughly enjoyed this assignment, thank you.
P.S.
Narc sentences 1 & 4: Loyal, decent and I am the good guy. I think I read here that the mid-rangers truly think they are decent and nice people. But we know that is all part of their facade.
Fantastic new blog article HG.
Excellent synopsis and read.
I place him as an Upper lesser victim narcissist with somatic traits, used extensively for fuel gathering.
Or upper lesser elite narcissist, with victim traits.
Based on his physical appearance and use of sex and power to manipulate.
Thank you.
HG — will you tell us what he is? Eventually. And side note. For those who suggest somatic can you clarify in a future writing. Can they be somatic if they are butt ugly? I do not get that. Unless it can apply to his victims. That they need to be attractive. No photo past or present displays him in any sort of somatic to me. Because I think (and could be wrong) that they care very deeply and go to great measures to look good, be fit, tan, teeth whiten, etc. Whether he is that or not… what a study for us, cartoonish. Which is why I think lesser. I look forward to your teasing this out further for us.
I will. Re your comments about somatic, read the article again, it is explained there.
Somatic Upper Lesser
I’ve been working part-time in an office for the past year that deals with Mr. Weinstein company on a semi-regular basis. I had heard him referred to as a lech, but I didn’t know he was a straight up rapist.
He is a rage machine though, and I did realize he was narcissist based on his fury. His angry belittlement of others is unparalleled. He’s a vile man.
Good riddance to bad trash.
I would say upper mid-range somatic
lower midrange victim
Narc or not Narc…
I don’t know.
He is so stupid!!!
Exposed by few stupid whores.
Yes, the bitches who are playing the virgins now.
Or corse is ugly what he did.
But the “ladies” are also not correct.
This is the way the Hollywood functions.
Good oncles helping young sexy girls.
Well… that’s not a very empathetic response.
I concur, ladyeverlasting.
What would you expect of someone who chose that moniker?
HG I understand if you don’t want to let my comment through but I don’t come here to listen to misogyny and victim blaming which has been everywhere else it seems but on this blog. Despite the subject matter it has been a respectful place to be, even a safe space where empaths codependents and victims of narcissists can come, Salome’ comment sounds like trolling, and I would rather not be around this type of thing.
Hello Mrs L, as you know, I welcome all views and opinions so long as they are advocated in a constructive manner. Sometimes one might refer to empirical evidence in support of a proposition, sometimes it is just opinion based on a perspective of the facts. The situation regarding those who were victims of Weinstein and have remained silent until recently is one which is very interesting and also brings forth some passionate opinions. Are they purely victims and is it wrong to attach any blame to them? Are they victims but could have spoken out at first? Are they victims who could have spoken out at a later juncture when they became more established with their own ‘power base’? What of those who were not victims but knew about what he was doing? Should they have spoken out? What about those who knew and continued to embrace his patronage, friendship and largesse? Also keep in mind that one narcissist can ensnare another. I will be writing about this additional element to the Weinstein situation and I am interested to know what others think.
HG
While I respect Mrs Lintons view, I admit I have some questions and opinions regarding the things both Salome and yourself touched on in your posts, so am glad that you allow different views and not just the popular vote or what people deem to be the correct response. That is not representative of the real world and I am sure that many people spouting the proper response and support to the media in Hollywood are Narcissists themselves. I want to hear what people honestly think and then hope that the exchange of information and opinions of others allows for growth in some instances. There is of course always a nicer way to word things to make it more palatable but the message remains the same. After all-havent we all here been destroyed by pretty words?
Hello Mrs Linton,
I am so sorry to hear about what you went through. You are not weak at all. You did the best you could with the understanding and choices you had at that time. Without witnesses or evidence, you would not have won at court. Those who minimize the crime and blame the victim stop doing it when something similar happens to them. Some of them have double standards too.
I am glad to hear that he has been caught and sent to prison.
Hi Salome, a number of these ‘whores’ were young women at the very start of their careers. They were vulnerable, scared and he, a powerful man of low morals, exploited their desire to get into the Hollywood industry. You have made the mistake so often made, that the victims are to blame for their abuse. You have in affect sided with a predator, letting him off the hook for his odious behaviour. So much for the Sister-hood. Sad imo.
Excellent rebuttal, Scout. I spoke up about sexual assault at work and lost my job. I don’t blame them for keeping their mouths shut or taking hush money. It is all about survival.
Hi K and all who are reading this blog.
I was once seriously abused by someone in a position of trust and power, I was an inpatient and very unwell at the time, I did not have the strength or the courage to put in a complaint and I had no witnesses and therefore no evidence. When I ran it past a close friend who was a health professional even she rationalised it away. Much later on someone else had the guts to report him for themselves for the exact same thing .After being investigated and going to court, he was then imprisoned, I only found out through the media what had happened to him. So yes I am guilty of being weak, but I am no whore, and neither are the women abused by Weinstein as whether or not they work in Hollywood is besides the point. Victims are blamed for being quiet and not having protected future victims or accused of being money grabbers liars and whores if they speak out. I did not want that to happen to me as well.
I do accept that there are malicious accusations made and I feel deeply upset for those men (and I assume Women too) who have been wrongly accused but let’s at least wait before passing judgement on the victims as this can be exactly what can stop people coming forwards.
I remember hearing Janet Street Porter speaking up for Jimmy Saville on Radio 4 shortly after the news broke on him, until the shear weight of evidence quitened those deniers.
Mrs Linton
I’ve very sorry you had to go thru that. I have friends who were abused by people in positions of trust and they carry the mental scars all their lives. Thank you for sharing your story with us.
I thought upper mid-range at first because of the pity plays and his appearance. I’m thinking he’s more of a upper-greater because of his status. Also, his behavior takes it up another notch.
I’ll go with midrange somatic, probably an upper midrange.