A Very Hollywood Narcissist

A VERY HOLLYWOODNARCISSIST

You will no doubt recognise Mr Harvey Weinstein in the picture above as he issues a clear message to somebody out of camera shot. You cannot have failed to notice the slew of accusations against Weinstein ranging from inappropriate attempts at engaging in sexual interaction with women through to sexual assaults and rape.  So far, more than thirty accusers have come forward although undoubtedly that number is set to rise.

Weinstein has apparently fled LA by private jet to the US $ 40 000 a month The Meadows rehab facility in Arizona. The mainstream media has bandied around phrases referring to him seeking treatment for sex addiction, that he is a sexual predator, he has abused his considerable power as a Hollywood producer but as ever one word is consistently missing – narcissist.

So, what are his accusers saying about him and how does this link to him being a narcissist? The analysis is based on what the accusers are stating as being true (and we will come to more of that in due course).

The French actress Lea Seydoux stated :-

“We were talking on the sofa when he suddenly jumped on me and tried to kiss me.

“I had to defend myself. He’s big and fat, so I had to be forceful to resist him. I left his room, thoroughly disgusted.

“I wasn’t afraid of him, though. Because I knew what kind of man he was all along.”

This behaviour shows a sense of entitlement and no regard for boundaries. He has no empathy for how a young woman would feel suddenly being treated in this manner.

The American actress, Heather Graham alleges he tried to force himself on her and told her his wife would have been fine with it.

“He could sleep with whomever he wanted when he was out of town. I walked out of the meeting feeling uneasy.

“There was no explicit mention that to star in one of those films I had to sleep with him, but the subtext was there.”

Once more there is a huge sense of entitlement not only with Ms Graham, but also with the perception that he could sleep with whomever he wanted. Yet again there is a failure to observe boundaries and moreover a lack of accountability. Not only does he not see or care that there might be a repercussion for such an unwanted advance, he goes further and states that his wife would have been fine with it. Note also the suggestion of subtext referred to by Ms Graham, which evidences the plausible deniability which we so often engage in. Had Ms Graham complained at the time, Weinstein would have course denied the accusation pointing out it was just the word of some crazed, wannabe young actress. Undoubtedly he would then have gone on to ruin her career, demonstrating the desire to exert control over an appliance and the application of punishment since Ms Graham would be painted ‘black’ for her treachery, even though Weinstein is the one in the wrong.

Model and actress Zoe Brock says she was brought back to Weinstein’s hotel room under false pretences in the south of France in 1997. It isn’t clear whether it was Weinstein or another who applied the false pretences, but either way, this is a further indicator of the narcissist at work. Lies have been told, manipulation has been applied and has either been done by Weinstein himself or through a Lieutenant on his behalf.

Brock explained that Weinstein emerged naked from another part of the suite and asked for a massage – once again no boundary recognition and a sense of entitlement, plus the usual lack of empathy for the individual placed in this situation.

“I did not want to do that and he asked if he could give me a massage… I didn’t know what to do and I felt that letting him maybe touch me a little bit might placate him enough to get me out of there somehow.”

Before long, Ms Brock into the bathroom. He banged on the door with his fists before eventually retreating, putting on a dressing gown and starting to cry.

This last paragraph provides us with further insight into Weinstein’s narcissism. When Brock fled, that was an act which wounded Weinstein. Her removing herself from him signalled to him that he was not important, that his control was not complete and he was wounded. His initial response was one of ignited fury as he banged on the door with his fists but this clearly drew no response from Ms Brock and more importantly no fuel and also wounded Weinstein further. He was forced to retreat and with his fuel levels being depleted by the wounding and the lack of additional fuelling appliances. Thus, withdrawal was his only option. Unsettled by his plummeting fuel levels and the potential for further wounding, his self-defence mechanism shifted and he began to cry. He was crying for himself as a consequence of the construct now starting to fall apart and also as a pity play in the hope that this would lure Ms Brock into being sympathetic and thus provide fuel to him.

Italian actress and director Asia Argento’s first dealing with Weinstein’s company Miramax was when she appeared in their crime drama B Monkey. She says she was left alone with him in a hotel room on the French Riviera after being told she was going to a Miramax party. Argento says she reluctantly agreed to give him a massage, but he then raped her.

Weinstein “terrified me, and he was so big”, she said. “It wouldn’t stop. It was a nightmare.”

“I know he has crushed a lot of people before. That’s why this story – in my case, it’s 20 years old, some of them are old – has never come out.”

Argento has not spoken out until now, saying she feared it would ruin her career to do so.

Once again there is the sense of entitlement, the lack of boundary recognition, the lack of empathy, the manipulation, the lies about the true intention and the threat of repercussion. Note that Ms Argento refers to being aware that he has crushed a lot of people before, therefore not only has this behaviour been systematic (further supported by the many revelations which are now coming forward) but it also exhibits the control that Weinstein exerted over people and as you know, control over everything is something we must have.

Mira Sorvino appeared in several of Weinstein’s films and has said that he sexually harassed her and tried to pressure her into having a physical relationship.

She was in a hotel room with him at the Toronto International Film Festival in 1995. Ms Sorvino explained that :-

“He started massaging my shoulders, which made me very uncomfortable, and then tried to get more physical, sort of chasing me around.”

Weeks later, she alleges he turned up to her apartment under the guise of having marketing ideas for the film.

“I opened the door terrified, brandishing my 20-pound Chihuahua mix in front of me, as though that would do any good.”

She told Weinstein her new boyfriend was on the way round, after which he apparently became dejected and left.

Once more there is the sense of entitlement, lack of boundary recognition, absence of empathy for how the victim of his behaviour would feel, a lack of accountability for his actions, manipulation and lying. Ms Sorvino’s comment about her new boyfriend being on his way around wounded Weinstein as not only was she rejecting him, she preferred somebody else. A Greater Narcissist, whilst wounded by such a comment would have kept his ignited fury in check and pressed on regardless, confident in his ability to charm and coerce to achieve the desired outcome. Weinstein, however, was wounded and he clearly anticipated further wounding. His dejection was an attempt to gain sympathy from Ms Sorvino, to gain fuel to address his wounding, but it failed and thus once again he was forced to withdraw.

The scale of the allegations covers not just actresses but those who worked in the various echelons of his company.

Various workers at the Weinstein film company have reported their unpleasant experiences dealing with Weinstein and this includes Emily Nestor who has a temporary front desk assistant who explained she had to refuse the advances of Weinstein on at least a dozen occasions. This evidences his sense of omnipotence and power, everybody is available to him and underlines his grandiosity – he can pick whoever he wants and they had better give him what he wants otherwise he would punish them.

Weinstein is clearly of the somatic cadre as his modus operandi to gaining fuel and extending control over appliances is through sexual overtures. Of course, this will be dressed up as him being a sex addict but it misses the fundamental point. Yes, he is an addict but he is addicted to fuel (just as all of our kind are) but he uses sex as a major method of gaining this fuel. Of course Weinstein will have sucked up the fuel at the lavish parties he threw, the glamorous ceremonies he attended, revelling in the applause and adulation from tertiary sources and Non Intimate Secondary Sources (friends, family and colleagues) but he wanted the more potent fuel from those he sought to make his Intimate Partner Secondary Sources. He had his wife as the Intimate Partner Primary Source but through these various acts of infidelity she was being devalued and we do not know what other behaviour she has had to endure – perhaps that will emerge over time.

The money, glamour, parties, beautiful people etc all fit within Weinstein belonging to the somatic cadre. He is not a physically attractive man however, overweight, out of shape, small piggy eyes and a face that would not look lost on the loser of a boxing bout but of course to certain somatic these physical shortcomings are not a problem. Firstly, the delusional nature of his narcissism will have told him that he was an adonis and irresistible to these people and as more and more victims piled up, this reinforced his notion of him being such a magnet for women. Secondly, he had his manipulative nature and the power of making or breaking people’s careers as a hugely influential force to ensure that he would achieve his aims most of the time. One does not have to have the looks of Brad Pitt to be of the somatic cadre.

So, the evidence from his accusers (and there is plenty more along similar lines to that detailed above) all supports that he is a narcissist. But what does Mr Weinstein have to say at this early stage to these allegations?

First of all, let us turn to the statement that has been issued on his behalf :-

Weinstein’s spokeswoman Sallie Hofmeister issued a statement in response to the allegations of sexual harassment and assault. She stated,

“Any allegations of non-consensual sex are unequivocally denied by Mr Weinstein,” she said. “Mr Weinstein has further confirmed that there were never any acts of retaliation against any women for refusing his advances.

“Mr Weinstein obviously can’t speak to anonymous allegations, but with respect to any women who have made allegations on the record, Mr Weinstein believes that all of these relationships were consensual. Mr Weinstein has begun counselling, has listened to the community and is pursuing a better path.”

What does this tell us? Most telling is the admission that Mr Weinstein believes that all of these relationships were consensual. This is noteworthy for two matters. Firstly, he is not denying the relationships took place, thus it is highly likely that he is admitting to acts of infidelity with regard to one or both of his two marriages. This evidences a lack of empathy for the ex-spouse and soon to be ex-spouse. It also shows once more his sense of entitlement. Secondly, an uninformed reader might see the use of the word ‘believes’ and think ‘oh sure he thought they were consensual’ with a shaken head of disbelief, but here is the rub, Weinstein will, from his narcissistic perspective believed that they were consensual because he is entitled to anything he wants, no means yes and he has to control everything. Nobody refuses him.

His spokesperson naturally denied any suggestion of criminality on his part and as Mandy Rice-Davies stated in the Profumo Affair, “well he would say that, wouldn’t he?” but not only is this careful management by his advisors, Weinstein will believe he has done nothing wrong because he is unaccountable in his world.

The final sentence is typical deflection and very much in the mould of But I Can Change  as people are invited to consider him to be a lost and damaged soul who needs guidance and therapy. It is just facade management.

However, this is what the carefully stage-managed spokesperson has said on his behalf, how has Mr Weinstein responded since the explosion of these revelations?

When leaving his daughter’s home to get into a vehicle to whisk him away, presumably to the waiting private jet, he was reported as stating

“And you know I’ve always been loyal to you guys, not like those fucking pricks who treat you like shit. I’ve been the good guy,”

This sentence packs so much of his narcissism in, it is hugely interesting.

  1. I have always been loyal to you guys – he is convinced he is a decent person and is also seeking sympathy with this comment, further evidence of his delusions thinking and his bid for fuel;
  2. Not like those ‘fucking pricks’ who treat you like shit – deflection by lashing out at other individuals, provocation towards the unnamed ‘pricks’;
  3. Sense of victimhood – I am the decent fellow here who has always been good to you lot and look at how I am being treated now
  4. ‘I’ve been the good guy’ – as ever the facade fights to remain in place and the obsession with being seen as a decent person continues
  5. Sense of entitlement – I have been loyal to you and now in my hour of need you had better support me;
  6. Sense of treachery – referring to how he is being vilified.

The picture accompanying this article shows Weinstein giving the finger on both hands as he attends his lawyer’s office. Hardly the behaviour of a contrite individual who “has listened to the community and is pursuing a better path.” No, at this juncture this was a narcissist who was fuelled (he had several supporters with him when the picture was taken) and when confronted no doubt by a press pack this was Challenge Fuel, so Weinstein feeling fuelled and confident, but needing to assert his perceived superiority engaged in a provocative act to draw more fuel from those observing and to assert his supposed superiority.

Whilst at his daughter’s house she apparently telephoned the police concerned that her father was suicidal. The repeated wounding he felt as allegation after allegation landed against him, from people he regarded as loyal and under his control, was smashing holes in his construct and making him feel desperate, like his world was literally caving in on him. Add to this the condemnation from other members of the industry, the fact that BAFTA has suspended his membership and The Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences was considering his role and condemned his behaviour, add Mr Weinstein was facing massive wounds.  Rather ironically, even Hillary Clinton stated that the funds Weinstein had donated to her presidential campaign would be donated to a charity instead. Once again, members of the brethren only look out for themselves.

Little wonder that he felt suicidal and was described as being in meltdown. Starved of fuel as hitherto reliable appliances turned off the provision of fuel as they turned their backs on him, he was also being repeatedly wounded, no wonder he commented

‘Guys, I’m not doing OK but I’m trying. I gotta get help. I’m hanging in, I’m trying my best.’

For once a statement of honesty in terms of him not doing okay, but once again his narcissistic self-defence mechanism kicks in as her refers to needing to het help, that he is “hanging in” (brave little soldier eh?) and he was “trying his best” so of course, feel sorry for the man, give him a break, he has realised he has made mistakes and is going to improve himself.

No he is not.

It is telling that when Weinstein met with executives of the film company before he was dismissed, he stated he wanted to go into heavy therapy and counselling in order to make a comeback. That is what matters to Weinstein ; himself. He is not going into therapy to be a better person, he is doing it because he has enough awareness (and no doubt suitably advised) that it is what he ought to do. He is doing it as facade management. He is doing it in order to draw fuel as part of a massive Pity Play, but most of all he is only doing it in the hope that he can stage a comeback. That is what is central to this current behaviour.

The executives were not persuaded and refused his request.

There is so much material that has emerged and is emerging to support the fact that Weinstein is one of us that it merits a book. However, the most damning indictment against him and one which reinforces what he is, is his utter lack of empathy.

Has he said sorry? Has he apologised? Has he been contrite?

No.

What do you think?

I have given you some clues in the article above, but can you apply your knowledge to ascertaining which school of narcissist Harvey Weinstein is?

What school of narcissist do you believe Harvey Weinstein to be?

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185 thoughts on “A Very Hollywood Narcissist”

  1. I think a lot of people are putting him in the greater category because of the Hollywood mogul stuff. If you had removed who he was and merely looked at the facts of his behavior I don’t think people would he putting him in greater category

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    1. Gareth
      I totally agree. I mean look at Trump. He’s really wealthy and President of the US but he’s only a Lesser. Wealth and power don’t confer intelligence and insight.

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      1. Hey, don’t think Trump is at all a lesser… He is actually very brilliant… In my opinion in his neutering Obamacare and undoing the Iran deal, he is doing the right thing for our country and the world… Many will not be able to afford Obamacare by next year as it’s premiums implode, and sky rocket, ( and the penalty fee for not purchasing it is non constitutional) and the Iran Nuclear arms deal was criminal and intended to give Iran the freedom to wreak havoc on the world. Not to say that what America, under the Bush administration, did was wrong in their invasion of Iraq.. Pray for peace and that all nations lay down their nuclear arms; disarm and do away with all nukes or we will not have a planet to call home..

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  2. Impulsive and thuggish like a lesser, but has some cognitive/organizational abilities to set his traps by putting his prey at ease by inviting them to meetings where other women are in the room. Then he asks everyone to leave the room at once and isolates his victim, then goes on the attack. I don’t think this cagey plan puts him in mid range or greater territory, though. Think he has done his con job so often he just knows what works – like a sleazy lesser who develops instincts to sell lots of used cars. I say upper lesser somatic victim. But I did miss the Sorvino clue-I’ll have to read this to see if there is some linkage to the mid range group in that clue that I missed. Until I do more homework, my gut says he just oozes lesserness: seeing his pugey fingers flipped up giving the bird … ah, such a lesser move.

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  3. Oops forgot to vote. Sorry HG. Ill add to my comment that he has no spine, no real public aggression (the most he can muster is the finger), and no real ‘bravado’ like the greater. Runs away when confronted. Pity plays and sympathy seeking, after the facts as we know them. Can reign in his heated fury quickly (to cold), just like a MR. Overall…..he’s sickening.
    Thanks HG. Its made me think. I say UMR.

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  4. I voted on this yesterday and cast my vote that he might be an upper mid range narcissist, and then this morning had a waking dream. And somehow Harvey was groping one of my daughters, at which time I appeared and literally ripped his tongue out, and immobilized him leaving him to lay in his own carnage and filth with only a snout to sniffle the blood and pain, the regret of what he had dared to do… No more big words to lure and ensnare innocent women..no more big words for Hollywood movie productions… no more big fat lies to emotionally or physically abuse the innocents.. It was an interesting dream to say the least but my spirit animal, the Bear, was fully unleashed in it…. Twas also very healing and empowering, to say the least… Now to direct that energy to the narcissist in my life and to be there for his victim to comfort her and offer understanding and support, something she never experienced as a child when she told her own mother what he was doing…Her mother took him back, and she went to live with her mother’s parents being separated from her three other half siblings, the offspring of her step father and mother. Her mother was emotionally broken down and crippled and had not the strength at the time to defend her, something that has to hurt to this day…Once his sister came to his defense saying to me she did not care what he did that he was still her brother and that he is her “blood!” I told her then, and hold firm to those words still today, “I will be her blood, and this blood will run thick, thicker than the blood which flowed between her and her mother’s own cord in the womb. I will be her family and defend her in all that she suffered at the hands of your ‘brother.'”

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  5. I thought Weinstein was a Greater because of his level of awareness but I must admit I was wrong. After reading this article again, the Fuel Matrix articles (Part I and Part III) and watching some videos on YT about him, it seems to me that he might be an ULN, although I am no completely sure.

    He is physically and sexually aggressive. He has raped women. Emma Thompson said he is not just a sex addict but a sexual predator. She also said “his bullying behaviour patterns also existed in his business world”. That means, he is a bully in his professional life too and he does not seem to be as intelligent and charismatic as a Greater, as I had previously thought when I first watched the news on TV a couple of days ago. His violent behaviour indicates he belongs to the Lesser school.

    You wrote that the ULN is “intolerant, driven and bullying but this achieves him success and he may quite well off” (Fuel Matrix, Part I – The Lesser). His better financial position allows him to have more than one IPSS, apart from his IPPS and if he is Somatic he regards himself as attractive or irresistible (this is quite amusing). He will interact with many tertiary sources and will appear favourable to them but he is a Lesser after all and sooner or later his heated fury will show. I think this could apply to Weinstein.

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      1. Thank you. I look forward to your answer, HG.
        (They said he was one of the most successful and prolific film producers in Hollywood so I thought he must be a Greater, even though he looks like an aggressive Lesser)

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    1. LOL! My narc met Tiger when he was a toddler. He was impressed by his skills but said he’d never get anywhere in golf bc he was a half breed n*****r, n*****rs don’t play golf! Years later he said Tiger was a fool to screw around on Alin(?). Talk about the pot calling the kettle black,LOL

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      1. Sorry bout the crude comment. My narc was a racist idiot behind closed doors after we had married. Makes me wretch. He also targeted certain minority women to cheat with, he thought he was entitled to take advantage of them. Quite a blow to his ego to find out what his real ancestry was, but he still felt superior to minorities.

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  6. I just wanted to say I very much appreciated the responses by K and Sout but K was the person I could reply to, they were comments to all, I don’t want to make this too personal but I am sure many of us here have an interesting and valuable story to tell from their own experience.

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    1. Mrs Linton
      Thank you for sharing your story. I do not think you are weak, cowardly or a whore. Shame on people in positions of power and trust for abusing people, especially the vulnerable, and I was happy to read that your abuser has been prosecuted and imprisoned. At the age of 19, I was tag teamed by a married couple, at work. The wife (a lesser age 48) physically assaulted me and the husband (mid-range age 52) sexually assaulted me; my case ended up in both criminal and civil court. I was smeared, blamed (I tried to seduce him), called a whore and a cunt, ganged up on, harassed at work by their coterie, my locker was vandalized and I was ultimately fired. I do not blame anyone for remaining silent or taking money. It is very clear that Harvey is a narcissist and his victims were targets. If a female narcissist exploited him, then he got his comeuppance. Such is life. Sorry you went through that Mrs L, we were both targeted and it wasn’t our fault.

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      1. Hello Mrs Linton
        Yes and no. The coterie provided false testimony on his behalf for the sexual assault, so it was I against 5 employees and ditto for the physical assault, so I got my ass kicked in criminal court. Not guilty. The civil case was settled out of court and I had to sign a non-disclosure agreement/NDA. So it is NO surprise to me that people keep their mouths shut. They made me out to be some sort of Lolita, and I took umbrage at that. He was a vile pig and his wife was an enormous Beast. Their was rumor at work that their own daughter took them to court for child abuse. What a nightmare!

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      2. Hello K.I am glad at least that the bastards had to pay you. You have really helped me today thank you,

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      3. Mrs Linton
        You are welcome! And I am very happy that I was able to help you. Remember, you are blameless and I am here for you. We both deserved better than we got. And, yes, those bastards had to pay all right and they were so pissed at me for going to the police. Ha ha ha!

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      4. Hello K,

        I cannot find the right words to say how sorry I am about what happened to you. It is more than outrageous and I feel helpless reading your story. I believe you and I hope they are caught someday and pay for their crimes as I am sure they have abused more people. No, it was not your fault, K. I think that those who remained silent or took money are responsible.

        There are several cases of married couples on the news. They are usually serial killers who take heavy drugs and their motive is money.

        However, there are other cases of married couples who lead a normal life and at least one of them has a steady job and they still abuse their victims physically, sexually and psychologically and their motive is not money. It is usually the wife who encourages her partner to do sadistic acts. She tells him what to do to their victim, how to torture her and the one who enjoys watching the victim being beaten and raped by her own partner. If these women ever get caught, which is quite rare, they either say they had no idea about what their husbands had done or they blame them and play the victim role. The wife is the instigator and her husband her puppet doing most of the dirty work. These cases rarely appear on the news because as you said, the victim knows that nobody would believe her if she spoke up and she does not have enough evidence. Besides, at least one of perpetrators usually has a decent job and looks pretty normal. These couples also have their Coterie and Lieutenants who would lie at court, if necessary (e.g. the victim tried to seduce the husband, as in your case) and they rarely get caught.
        I remember a case which happened five years ago. His wife worked on cable TV, radio, had a blog and her work colleagues spoke highly of her. They said she was sympathetic, supportive and very dedicated. The victim was able to escape and won at court but the woman who tortured her is currently out of prison because she is pregnant (!).

        These women go completely unnoticed in our society. Most people are blind to what women are capable of. Our culture likes to see women as “mothers” and rarely as instigators or perpetrators. Their victims are not only adult women but also men and children. Some “(grand)mothers” do instruct their husbands or sons to beat and rape their own (grand)children while the (grand)mother is watching and grinning. Some of them videotape their sadistic acts too.

        (To clarify just in case someone misunderstands my comment, I was speaking about your case, K, and *not* about Weinstein.)

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      5. Hello E. B.

        Thank you very much for your kind words and believing me. The whole ordeal was outrageous and I would not wish it on anyone. There was a substantial rumor going around that they were taken to court by there daughter for child abuse and I am certain they abused all 3 of their children. People think that men are bad but women are just as perverse and evil. My empath spy’s mother picked which girl their father would rape and stand in the doorway and watch. You are correct: there is little or no evidence, no one believes you, and they hide behind a facade/coterie of lies and ersatz alibis. And pregnancy and small children should not be a “Get Out of Jail Free” card. My narc sister used that pity play in court and she was always granted bail. Dowery deaths and bride burnings are common in India and usually involve the mother of the groom. My mother loved watching my father beat my siblings and sometimes they would beat on my sister together. Not many people recognize these husband/wife teams for what they really are, and they get away with a life time of abuse, leaving a trail of destruction behind them. All abuse is reprehensible and child abuse, especially, is a massive crime against humanity and breaks my heart. Thanks again E. B.

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  7. Dear Mr Tudor,
    Latest news report …. Looks like Muhammad Ali was a sex addict with a liking for 12 year olds. What is it with these men?

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  8. Hello K, thank you so much for sharing your story too. You sound like such a strong lady, What a horrendous and vicious experience you had. I wonder if the mid ranger who assaulted you was ever caught? I expect that ultimately he would be, because the hubris of these people catches them out in the end,
    When I was 26 I was raped by my partner at knifepoint. I did not report it, I was in a daze for days and I was in work as normal though not functioning My next boyfriend was a criminal lawyer and I remember him boasting about getting someone off all charges for rape, because the victim went on her holidays days afterwards with his argument being that she couldn’t have been traumatised. I put that lawyer right. He then told me that it was not too late to put in a complaint! After which I said I didn’t put a complaint in because I would not have been believed and you have just proven it! One more lawyer now knows things are not as simple as they appear.
    I don’t watch TV and I never buy newspapers, I don’t even go into places that sell mewspapers very often, but on this day I went to the petrol station and it was on the front cover of the first tabloid paper I saw as I went in. The chance of this happening was tiny and yet I found out because the universe knew I needed to know.
    What I am saying that I believe if you need it to be? you will be vindicated in the end,

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    1. Mrs Linton
      You are welcome. I was happy to share my story, so you can see we are aligned and you are not alone. After I lost my job, I never heard about those two again. I am very sorry that you were raped at knife-point by your partner. It is horrific to even think about and I completely understand your daze/shock. Many victims are so traumatized that they default into a state of automation. No wonder people despise lawyers. I do. I am happy that you set him (the lawyer) straight. You are correct; you will not be believed, so do NOT lament your silence. I think you are right; the universe speaks to us when the time is right and your serendipitous trip to the petrol station evinces that quite nicely. In the end, Harvey will get his just deserts.

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  9. HG .

    My apologies for asking this question again but I’d really appreciate your thoughts on Rosemary West & Myra Hindley .

    Would you agree that Fred West & Ian Brady ( as narcs) had so much control over Rosemary & Myra that they turned them into ” Murderers “? complicit into carrying out their wishes?

    West got the chance to kill himself while Brady wanted to starve himself to death so both still wanted their control until the very end even if death was the final result .

    Though some people may disagree I think it is entirely possible …Hindley & Rosemary were victims.

    What do you think ?

    NNS .

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    1. I will address Brady and Hindley first, do remind me to return to the Wests.

      Brady – Lower Greater – narcissistic psychopath with sexual sadism
      Hindley – Upper Mid Range narcissist

      Brady knew what he was and he was the instigator as he did exert control over Hindley. Hindley knew what she was doing was wrong, she engaged in the behaviour because her complicity was her way of love-bombing Brady. Hindley was very manipulative but far more concerned with the facade than Brady – she sough to reinvent herself in prison so she could be granted parole as she exerted her cognitive empathy and duped people most notably the campaigner Lord Longford. As you point out Brady sought to exert control until the very end through his hunger strike – it was not a Pity Play but the exertion of complete control. He even sought control AFTER his death by :-
      1. Dropping heavy suggestions there are other unknown victims of their killing;
      2. By failing to reveal where Keith Bennet was buried; and
      3. Detailing the manner of his funeral arrangements.

      The latter resulted in intervention by local authorities through court proceedings so that Brady will not have a funeral and he will not have music played when his remains are disposed of. He picked a particular piece of music which he wanted to be played. This is how the judge who ruled Brady would have no funeral, described the music requested
      “As to the playing of the fifth movement of the symphony during the cremation, I need only quote the description of that movement from Wikipedia for it to be seen how inappropriate it would be: ‘Fifth movement: Songe d’une Nuit du Sabbat (Dream of the Night of the Sabbath). In both the programme notes, Berlioz wrote: ‘[The musician] sees himself at a witches’ sabbath, in the midst of a hideous gathering of shades, sorcerers and monsters of every kind who have come together for his funeral.’

      “‘Strange sounds, groans, outbursts of laughter; distant shouts which seem to be answered by more shouts.’

      “‘The beloved melody appears once more, but has now lost its noble and shy character; it is now no more than a vulgar dance tune, trivial and grotesque: it is she who is coming to the sabbath … Roar of delight at her arrival … She joins the diabolical orgy …’

      “‘The funeral knell tolls, burlesque parody of the Dies irae, the dance of the witches …’

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      1. Look at you profiling and all 🤓😜

        ::clap clap::

        I’m enjoying this. You have my attention.

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      2. Diva
        I never heard of any of them either and my internets currently too slow for google. I’m lucky my emails still functioning. 😳

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      3. Hi Windstorm2…….I know exactly who they are….they murdered, tortured, raped and then buried their victims (young children) on the moors, not far from where I was raised as a child…….if you do look them up, you will understand the meaning of ignorance is bliss……..don’t look……Diva

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      4. Glad of the internet to be able to look them up. I was disturbed to the core that Tudor had taken to watching soaps.

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      5. Well he is partial to Terry & June…..it’s truly shocking……but these Greaters hide dark secrets!!!…….Diva

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      6. Thanks as ever HG . I really appreciate your detailed analysis

        Hands up .. I honestly thought Hindley was a victim of Bradys manipulations . Guessing I still have so many things to learn .

        Looking forward to your ” analysis ” of Rosemary West ..

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      7. You are welcome. She of course wanted to portray it that way, it appealed to him to be seen as such a master controller and he did not care for the consequences of being seen that way.

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    2. Not so sad, someone I know who worked with Rosemary West that they think she is utterly vacuous as a person, no charisma of any kind. I think she is a lesser or a psychopath. Fred West I think was a psychopath but his head injury made him disinhibited and even more violent.

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      1. Thanks for replying Mrs Linton.

        I find the whole narc thing truly fascinating in a weird sort of way . The fact that many carry the traits but don’t know what they are & yet we can now see those traits because of what we’ve learned. …

        It’s certainly been an eye opener.

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  10. HG this post and discussion has so captured my attention! I am fascinated to see how much we have learned under your tutelage. I am finding that I see Ns everywhere I look. Personally, I–and I would bet I’m not alone–would LOVE it if you could from time to time lead us in active practice for N identification, classification and perhaps response. For example, direct us toward a particular movie, book, interview, etc., then guide us through whatever process you see fit.
    Would this be in line with your aims? I would think so. (When one is building an army, at some point soldiers should be allowed to practice with live ammo.) Such a practice would make us so very very dangerous to Ns.

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    1. American Sniper by Chris Kyle, Scott McEwen & Jim DeFelice:
      The main character, Chris Kyle, was a MMRN and his wife is an empath. Chris was an asshole and an alcoholic but his sniping skills were absolutely stunning.

      My Antonia by Willa Cather: Antonia is an empath and her family was comprised of ULNs.

      David Copperfield by Charles Dickens: David, his mother and Peggoty are all empaths. David’s mother marries the hideous Mr. Murdstone, who I believe is an MMRN. Mr. Murdstone then moves his sister in with the family, and she too is an MMRN.

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      1. Hey K….you are way ahead of me at this game……it’s no wonder you had my number from day one………you were right…….you haven’t reached rock bottom with me yet……..I never do anything in half measures…..it’s all or nothing……..another downfall!!!!………..Diva

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      2. Diva
        You are polarized like me, there is no middle ground or gray areas. It is all or nothing. Don’t think of it as a downfall, spin it. Call it adventures in the dark side.

        My pleasure Diva! I am confident that you will get yourself into trouble faster than you can say Indiana Jones. Dust that mask off quickly, you may need it sooner than you think and good luck charming HG; he is the master of manipulation and may see through you quicker than Hell.

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      3. Hey K….”may see through you quicker than Hell.”

        I have no doubt that he already has……probably within the first 48 hours of my signing onto this blog……

        Adventures of the dark side? Are there any other kind????…..Diva

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      4. How could I forget. The Story of Little Black Sambo by Helen Bannerman: The four tigers are all lessers; they threaten to eat LBS* unless he gives up his clothes and umbrella (threat of repercussion, sense of entitlement, complete lack of empathy, no regard for boundaries). Poor LBS does not fight back; he willingly surrenders his property; he is sad and cries at his loss after the tigers have gone.
        The tigers start fighting amongst themselves about who is the grandest (sense of superiority). They take LBS’s clothes off and start to bite and claw at each other (classic lesser behavior), catching hold of each other’s tails, they run round and round the palm tree till they turned into ghi (butter). LBS collects his clothes and umbrella and escapes with Black Jumbo and the ghi. At home his mother makes a pancake supper with the ghi. I think LBS is a super empath: he does not fight the narcissists (no fuel), he eventually recovers his property (outsmarts them with patience), he escapes and then consumes the pancakes made from the lesser narcissistic ghi. The End

        *Little Black Sambo

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    2. Hi J…..interesting enough idea…….although the only books I have the time or inclination to read are HG’s!!!!! ……..(that comment should keep me off the naughty step for a day or two!) …..Diva

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      1. Hey K….thanks for that vote of confidence!!!…….I said I could charm my way off it!!!! I know you haven’t seen that “mask” too often, but I definitely have one ……I just had to blow the dust off it……Diva

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  11. Dear Mr Tudor,
    The storyline is getting ridiculous ………..
    Woody Allen ? Now there’s the pot calling the kettle black!
    What next ?

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  12. Would you be interested in doing an analysis on OJ Simpson? I have been incredibly curious if that guy is a narcissist or sociopath. Your insight would be valuable!

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      1. Id also be interested in the OJ analysis i know youd mentioned he was a lesser HG which surprised me so id be curious to read your thoughts about him.

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  13. *Firstly, the delusional nature of his narcissism will have told him that he was an adonis and irresistible to these people and as more and more victims piled up, this reinforced his notion of him being such a magnet for women. Secondly, he had his manipulative nature and the power of making or breaking people’s careers as a hugely influential force to ensure that he would achieve his aims most of the time. One does not have to have the looks of Brad Pitt to be of the somatic cadre.*

    Whoop there it is. Ironically. I read and read and re-read these. But I think sometimes there is SO much info, and it can be very painful that I still reead it sideways and miss obvious chunks. Just like in my real life. Omitting that which burned my eyes to realize. :/

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    1. Don’t feel too bad TZ. I miss stuff all the time too. For instance, it completely escaped me that HG was a victim of narcissistic abuse and he, too, has been gas lighted and manipulated. He is an NISS on his mother’s fuel matrix and he is, also, an appliance like us.

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      1. K

        No, it was strictly in jest. That type of action is not In accordance with his behaviour here and what he is aiming to acheive. My apologies to you, HG, or anyone else that thought I was serious.

        NA

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      2. Hey K……HG an appliance!!!! I think you are just trying to get on the steps with me…..maybe then I could tell you all about my other dark adventures and rock bottom tales, without the fear of putting it all in print!!!……Diva

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      3. Diva
        He has emotions, too. We are ALL part of the dynamic and it eluded me when I first came here. I thought he was only the doer, not done to. The stories we could tell….he probably has CCTV hooked up near “The Naughty Steps” with audio. But it would be such fun. K

        NA
        I didn’t think he would paint me black or boot me off. I was joking.

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  14. Hey K…..I have to say that your comment about HG also being an appliance did make me think a while…….it was a valid point and not one that had crossed my mind before you stated it, as I have not read very much about his past. However, as I have him painted, in my mind, blacker than the Beast of Bodmin Moor, I couldn’t dwell on it too long!!!!.

    “CCTV hooked up near “The Naughty Steps” with audio.”…..thanks for the tip off….but I have already worked out the blind spot…….and my Irish lilt is difficult to decipher…..

    Finally, personally, I think it would worry me more being painted white……in more ways than one!!!!…..Diva

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    1. Diva,
      Yeah, I hear you. Painted white you have to always be worrying about people pointing out stains and dirt, much harder to blend in and hide.

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    2. Diva
      I am happy you are thinking. The dynamic is fascinating. Narcs objectify other narcs. So if you think about it, HG’s narcissistic relatives think of him as an appliance, too, and he has a place on their fuel matrix, as well, unless he goes no contact. Occasionally, I picture him as Darth Vader or Satan surrounded by flames. If we are ever on “The Steps” together, we can pass notes. Maybe you have some black strands running through you, like a zebra. K

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