Poll – How Has Your No Contact Regime Been Breached?
No Contact is the ideal response to applying GOSO. Invariably harder to achieve and implement than people realise and often people breach it without thinking that they have done so.
Has your No Contact regime been breached and if so in what way or ways? Did the narcissist find a way to get a message to you or perhaps he or she telephoned you to speak to you? Did the narcissist’s Lieutenant contact you and talk about the narcissist? Maybe you gave in to temptation and contacted the narcissist yourself, maybe sending a message on social media or going to see the narcissist?
Perhaps you were unfortunate and just happened to bump into the narcissist somewhere or did you fall prey to the lure of emotional thinking and sit mired in nostalgia allowing all those memories to flow over you for some time.
Just happening to think about the narcissist does not count. That is inevitable and it not a true breach ; of course if you allowed that thought to linger, as in the nostalgia point above, that is a breach.
Or have you held firm – so far?
You can choose more than one answer before voting and as usual do expand on what happened in the comments.
Thank you for participating.
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Most of all of them except my visiting them and few others.
I did not know about NPD when I was with my ex-narc, so I never really applied NC with him. I always left him thinking he was not the one for me. However, his abuse was so subtle, just like my mother’s, that there was always self-doubt in me. Was I being too sensitive? Was I over-reacting? He did seem to love me, so why can’t I just be with him? It was very confusing for me, emotionally speaking. So sometimes I would contact him myself by text message or telephone. However, most of the times he hoovered me by doing something that seemed like a proof of love. Once he stayed outside the building I used to live in, looking up towards my window, as if he wanted to have a glimpse of me that night. I found that flattering and touching, especially because it was cold outside, but I did not do anything about it. However, by the time it started to rain, I phoned him and told him I knew he was there and that he needed to go home. I did not let him come upstairs, but it worked; I went back to him some days later. It was always something like that. The fact that we belonged to one group of friends and that we worked in the same building, did not help me to stay away from him either.
With my mothe,r it has been different. I had a big confrontation with her and stopped contacting her. Then, once I had learned about NPD, I decided to have limited contact with her (usually spend Christmas with her). But when I saw that her abuse was getting even worse, I went full NC. I have maintained NC since then.
Every now and then I look on fb to see the location. But I have made no contact. Nor while I venture any where near where works.
Stop looking on FB.
Why is that so hard HG?????
I didn’t realize that I was the one breaking NC all this time.
I have to admit I still look at her Pinterest everyday. My thoughts of her have diminished greatly. The busier I am, the less I think of her.
She no longer consumes every minute of my day like she used to though.
It’s taken 18 months to get this far.
Snow White
I know this is hard, but if you stop checking her social media everyday, you will recover much quicker. They are connected- your recovery and you thinking about her.
We bumped into each other after 5 months. It was bound to happen, since we belong to the same circle. He came to say “hi” and I had to answer, but it was two cold words. I don’t feel like no contact broke.
Hey there you They Call Me Canada. You can be the true north Strong and Free. Stay no contact EH! I am, Canadian.Not Molson but a hoser learning too, thus the references.
Mmm, you deleted my comment? Why? Ohh that’s right it’s a game.. would love your unbelievable response! That’s what it’s about is it not.. fuel!
No I didn’t.
Maybe it’s trapped in the spam dungeon? Sometimes I imagine all the little comments, trapped in the dark dungeon, waiting to be rescued. Their writers worrying and wondering about them, anxiously waiting and watching to see if they have been answered and emerge back into the light of day…..I think most of us lose the occasional comment that way.
I try not to think about it because I will actually feel sad and mourn for these poor little, lost questions and ideas!!!!! There is such a thing as too much empathy! Especially if you’re a contagion empath.
From his side – he came to my product the day it was launched and tested on himself. Anonymous, but it doesn’t help him cos technologies are betraying))
From my side – ah, HG, I’m a total sinner: I stalk his products once a week, let sweet memories to cover me sometimes, analyze him through your articles (decoded almost everything already), create about him.
Will the Narcissist percept the song somebody made about him, or a book dedicated to him, as fuel or as very irritating thing, cos he didn’t allowed it?
He woke me up to the alive full-life mode, so I use my memories far and wide in all the fields where I like my creativity to be boosted.
Dear HG,
Antifragile put her an interesting question:
“Will the Narcissist percept the song somebody made about him (…) as fuel or as very irritating thing, cos he didn’t allowed it?”
Perceive. I know English is not your first language.
It depends on whether that individual is painted black or white.
Hi Salome.
Thank you for supporting my question)
As I got HG’s answer… if there was disengagement once, there is a high chance narc will not appreciate being famous “together with” somebody he – probably – devalued. No more value of being together or involved…
My initial thought was to give song to somebody I know he likes. But anyway… better to let it all live separate life from him…
Yes, HG, English is my third lang, but I’m improving.)
My ex narcissist had sent me an email stating I was never to contact him for any reason. I took this as gospel and moved on. I escaped and there was no IGH. I have been getting phone calls like his cat is ill, an invitation to his child’s concert and have never replied. I accidentally picked up the phone recently from an unfamiliar number and it was him.
I asked why he was calling and reminded him of the email and he told me he sent the email because I made him mad. I had angered him by filing a small claim to recoup a debt he owed me which I won due to the fact I had videos of him promising to “pay me back”. He had no idea I had them.
He stated he missed me and wanted to know if I missed him. I said “No”. During this conversation, I went grey rock. Everything was stated matter of factly or monotone. I also received a fake apology. Something like, “I know you did a lot for me, I was ungrateful and angry but, I feel you turned on me and I couldn’t go through that”. What I heard was “Blah blah (what I think you want to hear) but, it’s all your fault”. I almost burst out laughing when I saw through this crappy apology! Instead I was silent.
Next he wanted to know if I was seeing anybody and I could tell him; he won’t be mad. I replied it was none of his business. He then wanted to know if I was happy. I stated I was content. These questions and answers were followed by long silences from me and I didn’t ask any question except initially. He became angry as I was not showing interest or asking any questions, muttered something and just hung up.
I am curious HG, does going grey rock make a further hoovering attempt less likely? He could not get any emotions out of me but, I think he did get fuel as I responded albeit with a monotone reply.
I do not think of him, or look up any social media or information about him as I never want anything to do with him again. He is blocked in every way I can possibly do. I will now screen all calls. I can only hope that the hoovers will be further apart as time goes by and less likely with grey rock. I don’t believe he will ever stop.
Could you advise me on what I should have done to discourage him? I fear having engaged him will lead to more hoovers. I had not spoken to him since early March 2016. Thank you in advance.
I recommend you organise a consultation kitcha007 to receive the full response.
K007– but. the. cat. =^..^=
LOL! A ploy to pander to my emotions. I was never to see or ask about cat or any animals in his in last email. The list was long. Cat is still living. So am I. Put your guilt trip where it belongs. I don’t fall for that at all.
hi HG …
thankyou for your understanding and knowledge
yes trying NC 1st time
i text him
‘hi hope you are god”
my emotional state telling me just text him once….. sent n delivered
silly me well i did hope he was ‘good’
but regreted my spelling mistake and breaking my NC
x
I’ve never actually gone no contact not how it should really be done . During breakups I would never ever break no contact , what I mean is , I would never ever contact him and if he hadn’t hoovered that would have been it forever because my pride wouldn’t let me contact him. But during each breakup I was always waiting and hoping for the hoover , but deep down I always thought that’s it , I’ll never hear from him again . I’d always read about hoovering and ask HG , and you would always tell me he would hoover and I hoped he would . Each time he did I felt relieved and would respond , hoping for change or hoping I was wrong and he wasn’t a narcissist. I never put up any defence by blocking anything . I guess I just waited it out. I wasn’t over him . Then the last time we broke up I did the closet thing I’ve ever done to no contact which was ignored his hoovers . He wasn’t blocked but I didn’t respond to anything and it felt good to ignore the calls , messages , emails , proxy hoovers , but I will be honest and say that each time I ignored I thought OK that will be it now . But was still curious if he would do something more . So I’ve never done the REAL no contact !! That’s why it’s still not over . It’s me that’s not cutting it completely dead YET. If I’d followed HG’s advice fully it would probably be over. But it’s hard to know how far each one of them will go. I definitely underestimated how far mine would go .
Well HG…..I guess I am going to have to come clean since you have asked directly and since GB was so honest……my hoover was on the 13th Oct via a couple of texts….I advised that I was going to follow HGs advice to the book and completely ignore them…..that was my intention…….but I did a bit of a detour!!!!! I just couldn’t resist getting a jab in……..which I did via a text…..I told a fib….it was very short and sweet and I have no doubt it wounded him further. I did not do it for a reply…..I did not want a reply and if I had got a reply I would have been very annoyed. So no contact continues on what I believe to be a mid range narc….there was no reply from him, but it was a statement I made (that I read on this blog) and not a question and I am happily getting on with my life just as I was before I sent that text and no contact will continue on……….Diva
Thank you for expanding Diva.
Since GB came clean…lol Diva!
Ironic that your Hoover happened on Fri Oct 13th…the same day I reunioned with my Narc. Oh the eeriness!
After 31/2 months NC I got 2 Voicemails from a Private Number. His number was blocked. The first Voice was tapping like “Morse Code”. The second was a Butt Call where I clearly heard HIS muffled voice, then click. Can you believe it? A mistake from a NARC. I have gotten calls from strange numbers. I am sending a Morse code back that says
“Butt-Fucker” to any I can text, if I suspect it is him. I found it on the web. He was a Jason Bounre /John Wick want a be. Let’s see how long it takes him to decipher it. Ha!
Good work.
This is also a good one
di-di-di-dit di-dah di-di-di-dit di-dah di-di-di-dit di-dah
…queue thousands of women looking up morse code to see if they can decode this… 🙂
Or it’s a waltz.
I voted the narc emailed/contacted me. Every disengagement its been him whose contacted me bc i was the one who disengaged. My pride prevents me from ever contacting him bc he is the reason we disengage. Hes made me over the years feel i was the insecure one with trust issues…well yes i am and with good reason.
Another pitfall is everpresence. 7 yrs worth if everpresence. Its like a little devil on your shoulder poking you with reminders every few minutes why you cant live without the narc.
Looking back none of my no contacts were serious they were either a break or to prove a point which never made a difference long term bc hed go back to the same narc cycle. A serious no contact is blocking 100% or as close as possible given the circumstances.
NA. Sounds like my life right now. Guess us empathy play games too.
I answered one of the poll questions incorrectly, I’ve been stalked by my mother narcissist on-line, she has manipulated my daughter to get my mobile number after a previous block. I don;t see her or interact with her. I’ve been in recovery for many multiple years but still the game is you did things in the past and I am (as in the narcissist) only focusing on your faults I don’t have any. I live with the fall out of refusing to be controlled and play the game…..They wont stop….I have four draining me in a continual cycle…each normalising abuse and bouncing off each other all being the under dog for there faults and failings They go into poor me…Stuck damaged child, all while trying to damage my daughter. Brilliant work HG thank you.
You are welcome.
I went no contact for the first time in six years for five months.He text me last week, i did not respond. He text me again via Facebook messenger a few days ago ( he has had me blocked on there forever) i responded. I have communicated with him a few times but I’m not struck by him as i was before and no feelings have came rushing back like all the times before. I shouldn’t be doing it , but i know i wont be ensnared by him this time.
I’m terrified he will show up at my new place. When I wake up I’m sure I see his body frame standing on the other side of my french glass door. Then I shake my head and carry on with my day. This will pass.
I’ve recently contacted him to let him know I took my name off the tenancy agreement. That’s been a year in the making. Silly it took so long.
I don’t call around though I think of it. These articles have reminded me I’m only hurting myself if I do.
And when I think of him it’s not really about him. I miss the identity I had when I was living with him. So I allow myself to remember the house, the lifestyle, and the people I knew. I don’t pine to have those things back but i miss them and I certainly don’t wish to have his miserable carcus back.
I keep myself safe when going to places I might run into him and take people with me. Like the mall. I continue to have hope that someday there won’t be a thought of him and I will be free.
I think contacted by a proxy of narcissist is closest.
I returned close to the area I had lived, to visit son and pay storage. I ran into a years ago former neighbor.I was surprised he knew anything about me leaving my narc. He said,”Oh he’s so worried about you, he couldn’t find you, and thought something really bad had happened to you!” (I had left a note.) I said “Tell him to fuck off, he knows why I left!”
The ex started stalking the post office from a hidden area, and caught me about a week later. I figured no use hiding at this point.
He kept stalking me in public places, would sit down uninvited at my table, but act polite friendly and reasonable, and proceed to talk his latest medical problems and how it is so hard all alone and he needs so much help, blah blah, apply obligation and guilt.
As I’m feeling bad about that he starts the love bombing again, is willing to sign a contract preventing abusive behavior, is willing to have talks about divorce, says he wants me to have my share, even though I told him he could have anything if he would just sign to dissolve the marriage.
WTF was I thinking? I was going back to take care of him. He mostly was decent to my face after. But he did brag about how easy it was to get information when you offer a $5000 reward (I thought bounty). And when he thought he had me bagged, he made a deniable threat on my mothers life.
I’m still shaking thinking about it.Significant difference in my mental state between the elation when I thought I had escaped and could stay hidden to the dead emptiness inside when I got caught and I knew he would never give up.
Hg – do midrangers care if a secondary source they disengaged from is giving them no contact? Would they even notice?
It depends. The narcissist who has disengaged may have done so owing to wounding and therefore will not want anything to do with the secondary source for a period of time, so the no contact is of no issue. The narcissist may well then hoover – benign or malign and therefore the no contact would be an issue.
It hasn’t been breached because when I cut…I cut. I don’t break once I’ve made up my mind.
👏👏👏
Hi Doc, if you were ENTJ instead of ENFJ the acronym is Executives Need Tough Jobs! You strike me as very efficient. Am so exhausted hypervigilant overeating am hoping NC and the inner work will all be worth it in the end!
He emailed me about a week ago asking if I wanted some of my things back and I said I didn’t. There has been no contact from either of us since.
I know you say.. they come back..he won’t. And for this I will be greatful as this was round 2, 20 plus years later of the same crap. He left for a 25 year old.. he is 52. Many people are disgusted.. yet he has and continues to smear me.. I guess because he looks like the fool. I am now incredibly good friends with ex wife and ex girlfriends… he knows the truth and lies have come out.. obviously blames me as the instigator.. and for that I don’t care.. I now have some sensational new, well not so new friends in my life. I laugh as I hear he has do much negative fuel ( yes the moron gets off on it).. may he never return.. I’m here to make his life hell..and he knows it! Im sure he hears us laughing.. the lies.. the bullshit.. what a pathetic existence… it’s killing him! Ha!
You said NC is breached if you sit and reflect about the narcissist and wallow in memories. Really? Then, for me, that can never happen. How on earth could I ever stop thinking about a man I was married to for over 40 years? I feel proud of myself for going no contact physically and via social media. But thinking about him? It’s only been three years since I figured out what he was and I’m still in therapy. I think about him/our marriage every day and I will to the day I die. But, rest assured, I will never forgive him or reconcile with him in any way.
It is unrealistic to expect you to never think about that person ever again. The key is to reduce the times that it happens and when it does happen, to jettison the thought so you do not embrace it and keep hold of it and start to reminisce etc.
I actually looked up his sugar mamas page, not the lessers. He won’t post photos of her ever on his page, nor does he want any of his friends to know about his second life with her as his friend. Fucking liar.
After he accidentaly friended and then unfriended me on social media.
Accidentally – lol!! Fuelly planned, I bet!))
Well. Unless you’re living under a rock as my situation has been all the buzz this week, we all know how I fell off the wagon almost 2 weeks ago. Shout out to the other 8 people who went to go see their Narc! (poll results so far, lol). Come sit with me and commiserate together.
All depressing emptiness aside for just a moment the year in review for me was as follows.
Found this blog. Learned what he is. Denied what he is. Had 5 months of NC. However my denial continued. And still continues. Interspersed with flashes of reality in-between. Think of it as a light bulb that keeps burning out. The light being the truth but the darkness being my denial. Always flickering and fucking with me. After 2 weeks ago it is dark again but now the duality of such is that I thought again he was the light. And now I am in the dark as I miss him. It is ironic my nickname for him used to be “Sunshine”. Cue the irony!
Over the summer I made the mistake of checking his Facebook (which I have now deleted my account so I do not make that mistake again). And I had a moment of weakness learning about his daughter’s medical issues. I reached out to him with a long heartfelt email of my concern. He ignored it as I expected but then a week later he hoovered me (on his wedding anniversary), flood gates open and we began communicating again.
3 months later we met up and had a reunion. I went to see him. I allowed him to have me again in every way, especially sexually.
And here I am again getting silenced/shelved. Again. Stuck in an emotional rollercoaster of fuckery. My daily emotional rotation over the last week and a half along with other thoughts in my brain has been as follows:
-Emptiness (missing him).
-Desperation (begging him to text/call/communicate with me).
-Fear (he will never talk to me again and I want to talk to him)
-Hopelessness (I have nothing to live for or look forward to)
-Anger (I want to tell his wife everything, I want to destroy him)
-Sympathy/Empathy? (Destroy him? No, I won’t, I love him and don’t want to destroy her or harm his child, they are innocent in all of this)
-Jealousy (I want to BE his wife, I wish he was mine)
-Sexual reminiscing and physically craving him (every moment of intimacy with him from last week and the last 20 months replaying in my head)
-Memories (ever other memory from the last 20 months)
-“Why did I not think of that” moments (memories of shit he said or did which at the time seemed innocuous has me now overthinking and saying “well damn there was another red flag”)
-Self loathing (why can’t I just label him as a fuck toy and not get attached, that is how he views me, I hate my emotions, I wish I felt nothing)
-“I want to go to sleep and not wake up, I wish I was dead. I will never be so selfish as to take my own life but see that truck over there? I am on the sidewalk but I am gonna close my eyes and hope that truck accidentally swerves this way, obliterates me and puts me out of my misery).
But it won’t and I will wake up tomorrow and this entire cycle will replay again in my head.
I am sure there is more but that is where I am right now.
Thank you everyone for letting me get all that out.
I looked up his social media.
I messaged him a couple of times no answer so i thought screw you then 2 week later i get phone calls off a witheld number i answered it was him i knew it would be. He just mentioned missing the sex we had (user) he has new supply for last 10 weeks and one week hasnt gone by where we havnt contacted one another. He always phones when its weekend and im out with friends he must either have a 6th sense or snooping on fb under another account . Last night he waved at my neice on fb knowing she would phone me and tell me what is that about HG why wont he sodd off if he has a new gf and doesnt want me . Its 5 days no contact again but its friday tomorrow. Im just going to ignore him which is what i told my neice to do x
The other person is not the IPPS. You should implement no contact rather than just ignore the messages as eventually your emotional thinking will reach the tipping point (because he is hoovering you) and you will be sucked back in.
Going into 34 days NC – not breached yet. I had a good head start because I’ve never been on any social media (privacy quirk of mine).
Wow, if he leaves me a message on my work cell – even if I don’t listen to it – that breaks NC?
If you know it is his him, it breaks NC because he has made you consider him. The impact is of course less than say if you talked for an hour together. You have to be stringent with NC to ensure it works.
Got it. Thanks, HG.
He wouldn’t sign divorce papers.
Successful NC with two frieNds. The amazing thing I have discovered about NC when finally implemented is that I do not miss them. It is because there was no one ever really there to interact with. Just a rotating series of masks. It’s so nice when you don’t have to wonder when the next piece of intentionally launched psychological nastiness will hit you. Now, they’re just a dusty memory.
I contacted him after 11 months NC. I said “I haven’t had sex in 11 months” – I didn’t hear anything for 5 minutes and then I said “that’s all I wanted to say – bye”. He answered immediately. He said I was his last also. I said he was a liar. I am glad I did it. We had sex, it was good but not great like I remembered it to be. The spell is broken. I am free!
A series of emotional thinking that started a cascade of reminiscent thoughts. A little something like this:
1. Think of possible imminent death due to sickness.
2. Leads to emotional spiral of thoughts about life lived.
3. Inevitably leads to thoughts of loved ones and love. Experiences missed out on in life.
4. Thoughts stray to narcissist and boil over into deeper spiral of hopeful fallacies.
5. Check their public content to see if change happened. Thoughts of false good times.
6. Nothing changed and resignation sinks in of inevitable nuance that it wouldn’t matter because one would be dead before such miracles happen.
7. Revel in good time due to idealism and post message.
8. Accept that even on one’s possible death ned certain thoughts could be entertained due to ingrained manipulations.
9. Move on.
I texted after a year of strict no contact. I wasn’t in a single sphere of influence except possibly fleeting across his mind at some point. I told myself I would contact HG before doing that so he could talk me down. I decided I was impenetrable and didn’t need help off the ledge. I’ve got this, I said to myself. False.
I did a face plant off that ledge. It set me back psychologically and emotionally. I didn’t see him as he requested. I didn’t face time him as he requested. I talked to him like he was garbage slinging facts at him about himself like arrows. He LOVED it. I think I might have made him climax looking back. The uglier I got, the more he loved it. He was swimming in an ocean of fuel. It was colossally stupid of me. I hope I’m right sized now.
12345,
Thanks for showing us a great example of ANY emotional fuel (especially negative) being what they want. I am convinced that right before I went NC with my ex-BF that he was trying to provoke me to anger. Instead, I sent him a rather goofy text that said I’d not clue him in if I ever saw a cat pee in his breakfast cereal. I know, what a random thing to say (especially since I’m not physically around him, nor does he have a cat, lol)…but it was probably dry and weird enough to not give him much fuel. Or at least it confused him.:-) I felt oddly calm when I sent that last message – which was 24 hours after he messed with my mind for the last time. And, thanks to you, I no longer regret not telling him off!
You’ll be stronger coming back after your brief relapse, girl. Great job!:-)
After I went NC with my Nex he sent me hundreds of emails. As I was following HG’s instructions to drip feed him positive fuel in order to accomplish the difficult task of getting my belongings back I was breaking NC. And I did meet him for coffee one day early on to ask him for my things back. In addition to that, Prince Charming appeared on my balcony professing his unconditional love for me with proposal of marriage and tons of future faking 7 times. I video taped him and sent it to his sister and DLS. The emails continued. After I successfully got my things back I shut off the fuel line. I have not replied to any of his emails which eventually turned malign. The most recent thing Prince Charming did was come to my home on Monday and was snooping around, looking in my windows and snooping through things on my porch. I have a security camera.
I didn’t realize sitting and reminiscing about the narc was a break of NC. As I am still healing from this horrific ordeal, I still think about him all the time. Not in a romantic, I miss him kind of way, but in an analytical kind of way.
Peaceful
Holy crap. My ex would never put that much effort into me. Thank god because this would be ten times harder. Best wishes to you.
That’s impressive, Peaceful. Well done!
Well, Peaceful, I think it is impossible not to think analytically of a person who has harmed you so deeply. You think of him and you think of yourself in that relationship and you also think (at least that is what I did) of all the previous men that you come to realize were narcissists. You need analysis and comparison and logic for a while, so even if this is actually a form of contact, it is important for your healing and , well, he doesn’t know it. Just don’t do it forever-there are other things in life too, there is a universe out there which doesn’t include a Narcissist-unbelievable, but true.
He’s tried to breach it via a family member, we did not respond in any way except to block his known social media accounts. Every attempt will be blocked and reported.
After I left the Cluster B guy having found a boyfriend, he sent me continual sms hoovers (that I never answered however since I had a boyfriend and I am always faithful), he was pretending as if nothing has happened and as if we were meeting still and asking when I was in town and so we could meet. I then did the big mistake of writing him back, some time after the boyfriend and I broke up. I knew already when we were meeting that I should not have done that – I fundamentally love him but it is a lost case. A man who goes around with lists of >40 girls that he ticks off and that he continually and methodologically rates up or down on the list, while he has a girlfriend, and spends significant amount of time managing and meeting all these different girls, and have done so for all of his life, can never be someones unique Valentine. (I never told him of course, that I saw his list *on 2 different occasions). And I even more realised the seriousness of the lost case, when I ran into his girlfriend in a gym-dresser room, just a few hours after we met on the same day, as he had evidently left her at the gym, to meet with me. (Maybe she is a sadistic narc too and was aware of his scheming and planning?) But a total disaster that is what is was for sure, to reply to his hoovers. I don’t know why I did not just forgot about it ALL there. Many, many years of entanglement I guess, and being completely oblivious to what he was of course, during the first 3-4 years, presented a significant emotional investment for me. What followed after that meeting was a year of devastating first physical (he made a sexual assault on me incurring physical pain and damage) and then followed by psychological torture, where he left me completely in the dark as to what was happening, harvesting all of his fruits = fuel, on the years of grooming and therefore predictability of my behaviour to all of his actions – naturally after a golden period, during which he made sure that I was fully hooked on him again. Now I am in NC for 2 months. Of what I am aware of at least. I have made it ‘difficult’ for him to contact me *and for myself to fall for emotions and write him in a weak moment, deliberately setting up an antitake-over defense through my wording in the last things I wrote to him, while to some extent safeguarding myself since I did proclaim my love to him but I also said that I was done, and made an effort critisising him using the f-word, saying he was f-up upset and like a girl (he is very misogyne so very criticising to compare his behaviour to that of an ‘[emotional irrational inferior] girl’), and I said that he treated people who love him, like s***. (I saw once when with him how he was submitting his girlfriend to the exact same silence treatment and despair that he does to apparently all women, regardless of the status in his hierarchy). I don’t know what his plan is now. Maybe he does not care about me anymore since his mission is accomplished and he has hurt me for a full year and thereby got even with me and I am broken? He does keep a methodological record of everything though. I don’t know other than to stick to NC, to the best of my knowledge, and try to be prepared mentally for all sorts of malign (hoover) activities, in the hope that I will not be affected emotionally and risk being in emotional super-pain again. Or worser.
When I was small I was scared of the Hoover. Much the same now.
HG, no contact is only breached if we initiate or reply.
Correct?
So an email or text message to us, is simply a hoover by them.
Until replied to.
Do you think those who breach no contact that way, are doing so because they seek answers from the narcissist?
Or is it conditioning only?
They feel obligated and compelled to reply?
No contact is breached if an e-mail gets through and you look at it. NC is breached if you see the narcissist walking by. NC is breached if you look at the narcissist’s social media. NC is breached if you sit and reflect about the narcissist and wallow in memories. NC is breached if you call him, even if he does not answer.
It’s good you lined all those out. A lot of people do all those things but think that if they do not actually talk to the narc, they are maintaining no contact. It’s not just that we don’t contact them, they must not contact us – not even in our thoughts – which is devilishly difficult to do!
Wow, I thought it was only breached if contact was made or accepted by us.
How is it breached if we see the Narcissist and he does not see us?
If it is an accidental happenstance.
I have seen him out several times. Without any contact or conversation shared.
This is a huge revelation.
Because it feeds the emotional infection which heightens emotional thinking which increases your susceptibility so you may be tempted to contact the narcissist. Purging is done by reducing and removing as far as possible any consideration of the narcissist and then ensuring that when there is a consideration it is short-lived and jettisoned promptly. Further, you may think the narcissist has not seen you, but he may well have done, which will lower the hoover bar and may lead to a more direct hoover.
I am just seeing this reply HG.
Thank you for such a thorough and helpful explanation.
It will help many who may have had the same confusion as I
regarding the perimeters No contact.
You are a Godsend, HG.
.
HG, are you saying that even though I stopped ALL communication for almost a year, passing by him in the office is a breach of NC? We work in the same office, so our paths cross from time to time. Nonetheless, I NEVER make eye contact not even a cordial hello. I’ve been thinking this entire time that my NC has been solid. Am I mistaken?
It breaches NC because you are entering a sphere of influence. Ultimately this is going to happen in your instance because you work together, thus you need to ensure all other elements of your NC regime remain robust. You are right to avoid eye contact and not speak however.
After reading Escape, No Contact, and Exorcism, I still flip through when I’m having a weak moment. No contact is incredibly difficult. Especially since I am one to reflect about EVERYTHING. I feel like my No Contact has been more like silent treatments. Ugh.
HG, have you read about attachment styles? I see many connections between avoidant attachment and narcissistic personality disorder. In your opinion, would you say they are the same?
I would have to look into this further Sophia in order to provide a meaningful response.
HG—thankyou for the reminder how NC can be breached. so we don’t get conned. and stay vigilant.
💡 I didnt realise this fully… I thought it was more about whether we responded whether we answered our doors or answer the phone or replied to messages. I never thought of the other elements as being no contact being broken.
Bummer when they drive by you on the road fairly often despite changing routes. I certainly wasn’t counting that. Seems clear when HG lays it out like that.. but I just never even considered ‘thinking about them’ was breaking no contact.
*sigjs* … but we still have to do the analysis in order to move forward it’s like facing grief it has to be done..
You have to face things first before you bury them though… if you don’t analyse it, work it through and then put it to bed it will keep coming up in mind. I feel fortunate to have this place which speeds things along..so many answers to save analysing too long…speeding up closure.
But to be fair no contact will always be broken because there’ll always be memories.. inevitably
but at least so much else will be reduced.
… Perhaps tbough, in the end, just like any other memory like “oh yes, yesterday it rained…”
😒
“NC is breached if you sit and reflect about the narcissist…”
Paradoxical since you very effectively teach us how to implement no contact and banish ever presence, but then ask us to reflect. 😊 I do understand the logic, though.
Probably why I don’t comment in as much of a detailed fashion as often. It feels like I’m breaching no contact when I regurgitate the old memories now. Likely because I’m in the later stages of healing from this particular narc. It feeds ever presence. Complete waste of my time to think about him or talk about him.
There is an important distinction however SW. Considering the narcissist in the context of your learning here is a valid method of furthering your progress and equipping yourselves, it serves a greater purpose. If you were just sat around reminiscing then that reflection is detrimental.
Thank you for clarifying this…I agree with SW, thinking that it was feeding ever presence a bit..good to know though that it obviously has to be done to learn and realise the difference rather than wallowing. Seems simple but when feeling emotional it doesn’t seem simple and then it seems contradictory. Glad to differentiate it.
Understood. Thank you HG.
Dear Mr Tudor,
Does that mean being on your blog and “reflecting” is breaking no contact? What if he drives past me on the road and I see him ?
What about when they Hoover or ghost ? I think the majority of us may be somewhat confused now with the “no contact” rules and procedures!
Could you perhaps enlighten us further on this!
Many thanks
Confused 🤔
No because that is a productive action. You are not idly sitting wallowing in nostalgia but you are applying what you have learned to the situation you experienced or are experiencing and this builds your logic defences.
If he drives past you and you see him, no contact has been breached but it is a minor breach and so long as you jettison the thought which occurs from seeing him, there will be no issue.
I will be writing more about what no contact really means and how it is breached when people do not realise and what you can do about this.
This is being a little controverse – that “sitt and reflect…” should fall under this categorie – as it feels most urgent to come back and read / hear about all this as a reminder of the sick behaviour. It’s then inescapable to think about the person/-s. And I’m not missing any “god times” (though my interest was vage in “this called relationship/-s” which I didn’t even wanted and according to me it never was any).
So… HG – how is we suppose to encourage ourselves and remind us so we don’t forget without “walloing” in to memories (which mainly is what has been MY eyeopener though I from the start felt / heard the warningbells but then did not “had a name” for it really).
One more thing – “No contact is breached if an e-mail gets through and you look at it.”
This I can partly understand (in my case only sms though it’s not convienant for me to change number bc of my work) specially in the beginning before you fully understand their mindset and words (and if you have romantic feelings left?!). (By the way – thank you for your translations – most helpful though ” Google translate” do not yet provide this 😂. Maybe next field for you to cover?!😉).
In my opinion it has had an advantage also. It has been an opportunity for me to “read” the narc and his state of mind/fuellevel/thoughts etc by tradig between the lines, which let me to be more prepared for coming “events”…
You know – even we empath’s (yes I DID wonder myself whether I was/am an empath or narc myself), can take advantage off what your kind is showing us – but we have to “turn everything around” so our actions is having the effect WE want – without YOU really understand. (I think it’s called “manipulation”… 😅)
HG – fel free to comment… 😉
Last – can you give an advice though on how to do with gifts left at the door and also how to handle a dying narc?
Gifts:
Don’t want or throw it if/when it’s coming to “get it back-time/pay for it-time” but have thoughts in just leaving it to a mutural friend (wich I do know could also be lieutant?). But then I also break NC, even if I don’t says/write anything. But it would spare me the hoovering-sms about wanting to know if the perfume was god and wanting me to be grateful and wondering why I won’t say thanks etc. Guess the hoovering will change for a while to being just “ungreatful” for there after fade out til the next hoover?
Death:
Possible cancer and lungdisease. According to “rumers” (planted lies?) cancer. According to narc not much time left…
Could well be just a hover but yet it can as well be both where the narc is making the most of it and taking advantage of the sickness. How to deal with the “dying” though it makes me “the coldhearted” in the eyes of others who is not familiar with narcissism. (And yes I’m almost looking forward to it sometimes and have no interest in “taking care” anymore as I once did.
I have NO doubt that it will come to the request from the narc to being selfish for not taking care of him and for not let him live in my house bc it’s warmer/better for his health/closer to hospital etc etc and what ever more he would say to benefit of the “dying/sickness”.
Best regards…
He telephoned my landline but I was away. When I returned and see the missed call I messaged him. He said he didn’t mean to ring me as he was just going through his blocked contacts. Which was rubbish as we live in different county’s. He doesn’t have any other connections in my town, he knew it was my number. It was two years since he’d last tried to contact me!
I look at the recent one’s social media at least once a week, so guess I haven’t really gone no contact with him! But I was a DSIPSS never to be promoted. I’m quite certain if I don’t contact him I’ll never hear from him again. Sometimes this stance leads me to make contact. And sometimes that leads to “hooking up”. I feel completely in control of this situation though. If I offer myself he’ll always take it but if leave him be I won’t even cross his mind such was my irrelevance to him. Maybe I’m wrong HG? What do you think?
1. You are not in control of the situation, your emotional thinking is conning you into thinking you are.
2. You have not gone no contact.
3. He will hoover you subject to Hoover Trigger and Hoover Execution Criteria.
You are not implementing no contact because you are allowing your emotional thinking to tell you that he will not contact you and thus you are leaving the door wide open for it to happen because your emotional thinking wants this to happen.
I knew exactly when NC will stop.
He knew it also.
The day of the first rehearsal of the new show we participated both.
There is no such an answer:
We bumped into one another “EXPECTEDLY”.
So I don’t know what to chose.
Luckily we are on different sides of the world and i havent had any contact since walking out the door (6 months ago!) but im guilty of reminiscing.
I finally left him and had my parents fly me home.. since i was both broken and broke from the ordeal, but a month later i was back on that plane with the ticket he bought me, headed back to him. I lasted 10 days (of hell) before he discarded me and i was on a 24hour flight back to the mess i had left at home.
Yet after everything i’m still reminiscing! I think the bad times were so bad that it made the good times seem amazing.
I feel like its finally over since its been half a year of no contact/hoover (other than one social media “like” from him on the one platform i forgot to block him on when i first got back) but im guessing thats naive of me think… that im safe.
But him being a lesser N and us being on different continents and all… is there still a high chance of hoover? Is the tiny bit of fuel (if any) worth the effort to a lesser N?
Just tell me its over pleeeeeaaasseee haha.
Ps. Thank you so much for everything on this site. I appreciate every bit of understanding gained from your words!
You are most welcome. I like your name – presumably they call you that because you are patriotic and good at ice hockey as opposed to being largely barren and frozen!
my ex narc who contacts me every day but has a fugly girlfriend not sure if its my replacement or a secondary, comes over and tells me “Im never coming back” I was with him for 28 years put him through medical school, we had ” the perfect life” we were rich ( mostly because of me) had everything, well connected in the community and now my narc is effing a mexican housekeeper! Please explain why he comes over and tells me ” Im happy and Im never coming home”
To triangulate you and gain fuel.
ps Im hot as hell body and face wise and his fugly is a toothless midget
“I think the bad times were so bad that it made the good times seem amazing”
This was an aha moment for me, thank you! The bar had been set so low after 30 years of marriage that simply not snarling and being cruel becomes good times. I left 6 months ago, total NC for 4 months. Everyday I don’t get the Hoover I am relieved. But every day I also realize it can come at any time. Stay strong Canada, we’ve got this!
Would like to take part in the poll? Unsure because although we still live in the same house we haven’t spoken to each other for 10months (as he doesn’t seem in any great hurry to leave) so ‘ Hasn’t been breached’ is my vote although given the circumstances? Uncertain?
But do you see him every day?
Most days, fleetingly.
This is interesting. My narc fairly regularly comes to my place of work and mostly behaves well when there. I say mostly because he did turn up with one malign hoover not long after the discard. I complained about him being on my front porch after he had been asked to leave several homes that he went to after he left me. He swore at me and I replied well don’t be sitting on my front porch then. He left but since then he has been back and fairly sociable, I guess because we were friends before the absolute disaster of a relationship thing. He tried pity plays when he made himself homeless recently to which I played dumb so he has after another period of being homeless found another friend to take him in. I have noticed a big difference between when he has ‘supply’ and when he doesn’t. The person he is staying with at present is a man he used to work with years ago so I am sort of wondering if it matters to him at all what he feels he has to do to gain supply though it seems mostly that he is looking for a home where he only works for his beer money if he has to and trades yard work for a roof over his head. The reason I feel he will be back is because he is not big on paying his way as far as utilities and anything else he can be supported with is someone else’s responsibility. Back to your question, yes I have to deal with him in my job fairly often and I just do my job respectfully because not very many people understand the nature of the Narcissistic personality disorder and trying to explain it is harder than just getting on with things and dealing with it as best I can.
Cost mea lot of work and savings of 16K slowly whittled away because of supporting his beer smokes food and amazing extra costs for utilities.
I took care of my homeless narc too. I am in incredible debt and now he has a great job and I am left with all the debt
As they always do Wandi.
They won’t spend a single penny on anyone unless it benefits them .
Well, I breached the NC in the beginning. Trying to understand what happened, wanting closure so bad, wanting the keys to my apartment back.. missing him although I hate to admit it. He either didn’t answer or he answered without addressing what I was actually saying. Then I went NC.
Cathrine I’ve done that countless times. I am struggling now not to contact him. Trust me HG was awesome to say find a totem and remind yourself of the good logical reasons why you should not contact him. And keep reading HGs articles. They are helpful
I run into my Narc at dance class where we met. She wasn’t going for awhile until after the break and she knew I was still going. An interesting side note about partner dance for those who don’t know. The Lead (male) choreographs the dance as it goes along, be it Fox Trot, Swing, Salsa, doesn’t matter, the Follow (female) moves based on the lead signals of movement and body frame gestures. A good Lead can make any Follow “look good” on the dance floor. When we where in the Golden Period with my Narc, we danced beautifully together and we received many complements. During Devaluation she couldn’t “get her steps”, or keep in time with my leads making me (us as a couple) look bad on the floor. Her insinuations where that I was “incapable” of leading her properly, thus, a bad dancer. She had told me her previous boyfriend (died from cancer), used to like to dance but after a time just sat and watched. I was puzzled at the time but then understood.
I went NC yesterday and a series of events occurred (which for now I cannot go into detail), but my Narc came to the house that very same day. I actually saw him running around towards the back of the house. I had disabled the garage door so he could get in. He then came running back around to the front. My heart started pounding. I immediately called the police.
While on the phone with the police, he leaves (but first checks the email box) and as I am telling them he just left — he comes back. He flew up the driveway in his car, parked and ran to the front door. OMG he has a key, I really didn’t think he had a key (at least he told me before he didn’t–liar). He tried to turn the lock, but I held on tight to the bolt. I started screaming. Both at him and the police on the phone. I’m also recording the whole thing.
I screamed to the police they needed to get here now. He’s highly agitated and if he gets hold of me — he very well may kill me. I’m screaming through the door at him to go away that I am on the phone with the police and they are on their way.
He tries to be calm, but he’s not, as he’s raging. He says this is MY HOUSE YOU CAN’T KEEP ME OUT! He then said I need cloths. I’m still screaming, your not calm and you are scaring me. Please go the police are coming.
Well being the CN he is, he did leave. Within minutes one policeman arrived, I met him outside and explained what just happened. He could see I was freaking out and said let’s go inside. Then a shadow appeared at the door and I nearly flew to the roof. The policeman put his hand out and told me not to worry he was here, it will be alright. Turns out it was another policeman. Then a 3rd arrived.
Again because I am going through a divorce right now, I cannot provide further details.
So yea, going NC (my Narcs choice), there he was trying to get in.
People these types are nuts, get away from them. Go NC, block everything, all your emails and social media you may have –stop it.
I just so happened to come to the decision, “enough-is-enough.”
Argh good for you for deciding enough is enough , but sounds like you need support , contact women’s aid helpline , they are helpful in providing you with info and support etc . As most violence happens once the relationship is over so yes be safe xxx locks changed etc they may assist . Hope it all passes and you live in peace x
HG, my narc contacted my friend x
I have taken breaks from my narcissists for up to 2 months, but I have never felt the need to go no contact and cut them off. Being a basically lazy and cheap bunch, moving an hour’s car drive away was good enough to keep them out of the house and that worked for me.
They did often phone and try to browbeat me into doing them favors the first few years, But I weathered that storm and all had been peaceful since.
WS2—are you or were you IP in any capacity? that sounds dangerous not lazy.
He knocked on my front door and I could see him outside , I crept down as I didn’t want him to know I was in , however half way down the stairs he opened the front door !! I then shot down stairs didn’t look at him and said leave and I walked out and got in my car . He called to see a friend of mine in her work !!! Embarrassing!! She did t know what to do he was just fishing to see if I had moved on or not . No response there , he bumped into my neighbour , as she came up my path I knew she had seen him , strange but I knew , he said tell her I still love her , wtf to a neighbour , oh and can she give me a ring !! ?? Yeah ok after 19 years of marriage and you did the unforgivable and crossed the line , I don’t friggen think so ….. jog on . No contact is , and was very difficult but you have to stick at it , but the only thing helps you stick at it is you know for sure you’ve had enough ????? I knew xx good luck everyone
Freedom 45, I’m sorry, I’m sure you were scared.
They have a way of creeping, well everywhere. You did the right thing by leaving. If that is your house and he has a key — change every single lock. Get some alarms so if your perimeter is breached you will instantly know.
If it’s a joint residence then, according to the law, you don’t have a protective order he can come and go as a pleases.
Whichever of the two, stay strong and stand firm. I’ll be thinking about you and pray for your safety.
I think legislation needs to be put into place to change the law. These guys are dangerous, especially when backed into a corner. When my own divorce is complete, maybe that will be my next side project.
Good luck,
SE
Argh thank you super empath , strange I just wrote a response to your letter earlier (awaiting screening ) I didn’t know you responded to me !!! I changed the locks the week after we split it’s nearly a year but I left the door open and was upstairs , he knows not to come here again I have his family on my side ! Yes in both names but his dad bought it and it is now mine , sad he walked away but I’m glad , I forgot to mention he also tried crying to gardener ! Emailed me , and pulled up outside after I was jogging he seen me , but I know give him no fuel at all after brill advice of HG , he also wrote a letter posted it when in early days and I didn’t read it , I’m usually very curious like a dog with a bone but something clicked and the game was over , I handed it back x hope your situation passes , everything usually Does and nothing stays he same , best wishes , I’ve only just started coming on here and finding it really helpful , wish we had meetings like Al-anon do etc I would be there every week haha
Thank you Freedom 45. And you too.🌹
I have not unfriended him on FB – I don’t see the point really – it’s too much like making a statement. So he has messaged me and has commented on my facebook posts.
I am really not bothered though.