A Very Deflecting Narcissist
Kevin Spacey is gay.
Well, who would have thought that eh?
Ordinarily, this would not be an issue, but Spacey has made it so through an obvious piece of narcissistic manipulation. Many have seen the manipulation, fewer realise what actually lies behind the manipulation. It does however provide a stark example of the behaviour of the narcissist because it exemplifies The Narcissist’s Twin Lines of Defence .
Anthony Rapp, an actor, has accused Spacey of sexually assaulting him back in 1986. Rapp was 14 years old and Spacey was 26 years old. This was Spacey’s response and in just two paragraphs it is laden with indicators of his narcissism :-
“I have a lot of respect and admiration for Anthony Rapp as an actor. I’m beyond horrified to hear his story. I honestly do not remember the encounter, it would have been over 30 years ago. But if I did behave as he describes, I owe him the sincerest apology for what would have been deeply inappropriate drunken behavior, and I am sorry for the feelings he describes having carried with him all these years.
“This story has encouraged me to address other things about my life. I know that there are stories out there about me and that some have been fuelled by the fact that I have been so protective of my privacy. As those closest to me know, in my life I have had relationships with both men and women. I have loved and had romantic encounters with men throughout my life, and I choose now to live as a gay man. I want to deal with this honestly and openly and that starts with examining my own behavior.
In these two paragraphs you have the encapsulation of the Narcissist’s Twin Lines of Defence. First of all deny – “I honestly do not remember the encounter.”
Second, deploy a further manipulation, in this instance it is the common narcissistic tactic of deflection. Spacey reveals that he is a gay man (not really a surprise) but this apparent revelation is made to deflect from the act he is accused of and to deflect from the fact the act is a serious sexual crime against a child.
It also embodies something which is often used as an object of ridicule concerning narcissists in terms of “Enough about you, let’s talk about me.” Spacey has demonstrated that his apparent concern for Rapp and for his own behaviour towards Rapp is tissue thin and manufactured. There is no concern. His statement demonstrates that he is more concerned about the issue surrounding him – his sexuality. He wishes to deflect from Rapp and make it all about him.
It also shows a common element in certain schools of narcissist, namely false contrition. There are apologies offered and the word ‘sorry’ is used but whilst Spacey recognises the need to create the appearance of contrition, it is not genuine because his second paragraph completely undermines and erodes the essence of the supposed apology.
So, what narcissistic traits are evident in this statement?
Entitlement – I am entitled to use this as a platform to make it about me
Lack of accountability – I deny it happened and if it did then I am not accountable because of who I am
Lack of empathy – no consideration in the sexual assault for Rapp, no consideration for Rapp in the manner of this statement, no consideration for other victims of sexual assaults, no consideration for those who are homosexual since he has linked homosexuality with child abuse, something a number of commentators have highlighted.
The Twin Lines of Narcissistic Defence – as explained above
False Contrition
Zachary Quinto saw straight through the deflection as he commented
“Not by standing up as a point of pride – in the light of all his many awards and accomplishments thus inspiring tens of thousands of struggling LGBTQ kids around the world – but as a calculated manipulation to deflect attention from the very serious accusation that he attempt to molest one.‘
‘I think what we have seen in terms of gay teenagers committing suicide because of bullying is anguishing. I think young people, if they are feeling like they are confused, need to know that there are people to talk to and that there are places they can go and not feel alone,’ said Spacey.
‘But I feel that they have just as many rights as I do to not be bullied. And I don’t understand people who say, “Well, this is a terrible thing that is happening to this young person whose life is being exposed,” and then turn around and do it to another person. People have different reasons for the way they live their lives. You cannot put everyone’s reasons in the same box.’
‘It’s just a line I’ve never crossed and never will.’
This statement which can now be seen against a backdrop of allegations of inappropriate sexual behaviour reinforces the narcissistic personality at work here. There is the cognitive empathy on display by talking about the situation of another, the maintenance of the facade in terms of being seen to care about others and the victim mentality of the narcissist “I feel they have just as many right as I do to not be bullied”. Furthermore, it evidences the hypocrisy and compartmentalisation which our kind engage in. Spacey has bullied people, often those in a ‘weaker’ position to him as a huge Hollywood star, yet notably does he ignore this behaviour he states it is a line he has never crossed and never will. This might be evidence of his lack of awareness as to what he is, that he truly sees nothing wrong in what he has done and therefore his self-defending narcissism automatically rejects any notion of accountability, or that he knows what he has done but he does not care and sees a convenient opportunity to tell a known lie because it serves him well to do so.
A further accuser, Tony Montana, a documentary filmmaker, says that Spacey groped him in the Coronet Pub in Los Angeles in 2003. He says he was in the bar working when Spacey showed up with a number of his friends.
‘I went up to order a drink and Kevin came up to me and put his arm around me,’
‘He was telling me to come with him, to leave the bar. He put his hand on my crotch forcefully and grabbed my whole package.’
Montana alleges that a drunk Spacey told him: ‘This designates ownership.’
Once again this behaviour evidences no boundary recognition, a sense of entitlement and a lack of accountability with no empathy for the person he is groping. His own words also evidence his view of Mr Montana belonging to him. We regard people as objects, as our possessions and therefore this comment by Spacey, if correct, underpins Spacey’s view as a narcissist. Clearly, since he was apparently drunk, his thought emerged as the spoken word.
A further individual speaking under the alias ‘John’ alleges that when he was 16 years old he was working with Spacey at a summer theatre. in the 1980s. He explained that Spacey was apparently ‘sobbing’ from his bed, which John recognised as a manipulation to try to get John to join him in bed by doling out a Pity Play, a well-known narcissistic manipulation. John did not join Spaceybut then awoke to find Spacey draped around him, his head on his torso and his arms wrapped affectionately around him. Once again there is the failure to recognise the boundary and the sense of entitlement.
It does not end there. There have been in the past allegations. A show business website ran e-mails from those who alleged that Spacey had targeted them, all of them were young men.
Further allegations include a man who recounted being at the Sundance Film Festival in 2003 and explained ‘I felt a hand on my bum at the Martini bar’. The hand belonged to Spacey, he said, who invited him to a ‘swanky’ industry party. A source from New York said a friend texted him from a bar to say: ‘Kevin Spacey is here and he has his hand on my thigh.’
Another New Yorker recalled a friend telling him how Spacey chatted him up in a bar, ‘rubbing his knee before inviting him to a party. An ex-waiter at a smart Chicago restaurant said a male colleague was once invited by Spacey back to his hotel suite for a party that rapidly evaporated when the star asked everyone else to leave. Aware of the actor’s intentions, the waiter ‘thanked him for the nice evening and left’.
In another alleged incident, Spacey was at Harvard University for a function in the late 1990s and later propositioned a gay male undergraduate in a bar.
A repeated pattern of targeting individuals using his status and position of power to procure a sexual engagement with these individuals. Of course, as you know, what was really behind this was a narcissist identifying victims from whom he would gain fuel as a consequence of their responses.
As you would expect, a narcissist of Spacey’s calibre engages in careful facade management such as praising Venezuela’s former socialist leader Hugo Chavez, being on the streets of Belarus to support the democracy movement and has set up a charitable foundation to enable young actors to break into show business. All these acts are manufactured to portray an apparently caring and compassionate individual. However, this is clearly a facade since such an individual would not engage in the other behaviours which have been brought to light by not just one individual but several and it would not be a surprise to find further incidents coming to light in the days ahead.
The key traits of the behaviour of a narcissist are evident in the incidents which are being brought to light and which culminated in the revealing statement that Spacey issued regarding Mr Rapp.
Spacey has been lauded for his portrayal of many memorable screen characters such as Keyser Soze, Frank Underwood, Dave Harken (from Horrible Bosses) and Lex Luthor. If you know those characters you will recognise a common thread to them all. Perhaps after all Spacey has fallen prey to that criticism certain actors receive, that they are just playing themselves. Perhaps Spacey has been playing himself but was using the part to deflect from what he really is as part of that narcissistic armoury.
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Idk, HG, this blog post is too good.
Comparison with your analysis of Kevin Spacey’s blameshifting, gives me an uneasy feeling when I read scientist Neil deGrasse Tyson’s public letter where he eloquently responds to accusations of making women from his past feel physically uncomfortable. It is written in the same style. And he seems to have a thing for pointing out that those women were dropouts (from his university education). Doesn’t mean he must be guilty. But I get the feeling he is a N.
Well….?? What is he? Did HG tell us
I would really enjoy an analysis of what potential significance the roles that Spacey took or the wider stories he chose to play a part in, in his potential as a narc, as a sexual predator, his hidden sexual identity and in relation to his own abusive and excessively dysfunctional childhood. Is there something to be understood there?
American Beauty – I haven’t seen that for a long, long time – but there was a lot of dysfunction there – on many levels. People deceiving themselves and other people. Kaiser Sose – a manipulator, a liar, a dark individual able to betray and deceive everyone he met. His House of Cards character – I’ve never seen it, but again, apparently deeply narcissistic?
There may be more – but these are the only roles I’m aware of. Why did Spacey choose these roles? Is there some element of catharsis, or is he trying to demonstrate who he really is, his dark mind? Is it his way of telling us who he is, without admitting to it? I would really appreciate someone with knowledge of Spacey’s work and a bit of psychology knowledge to do a bit of analysis – it’s fascinating. What do you think, HG?
I forgot to say in my earlier post that apparently Spacey’s father was a Nazi party supporter – again, there was a reference to this in American Beauty, I recall. The repressed homosexual next door neighbour had Nazi plates – I think.
I’m surprised this article doesn’t include Spacey’s childhood – which would be relevant to him potentially being a narc. According to his estranged brother, there was a significant amount of abuse in the home – directed at the brother from the father – sexual and emotional. Spacey, apparently, was not sexually abused himself, but was aware of the abuse and his brother said something along the lines that Spacey shut himself down to avoid having to react or deal with the situation – and presumably to also avoid his father’s wrath and / or sexual advances. I can’t recall the role the mother played – but it would seem unlikely that she wasn’t aware.
All valid points Sunshine, naturally there is only so much I can include as with the ‘A Very’ articles I could write a book on some of the subjects, but thank you for adding these observations.
HG I recently saw a 20/20 episode about the Menendez brothers. Have you ever written about them? Both brothers and the Dad seem like narcissists to me.
No, I haven’t Carl, I think someone else has mentioned them previously. I shall have to take a look in greater detail.
Hmmmm i think i will take back what i said about trump not being involved in the increase in allegations. It seems to be on the rise and has me wondering.
MJ chomo sympathizer goes to, Jenna.
Mj is not a ‘chomo’/child molester.
He was found not guilty by two grand juries in a court of law. The evidence is available for anybody to view.
In my opinion, actual child molesters should all be chemically castrated, made impotent, and go to prison. I have stated this several times before on the blog.
Why not shoot them and be done with it, save my taxes.
Ha, ha! I agree. In fact I always said men convicted of rape should be shot as well. My exhusband always said that was “overkill” – literally as well as figuratively!
Even better! Why waste tax dollars on them?
I concur.
They should have to beg for death….then be granted it.
Hi Indy, infp’s can be really tough when they have to be. A good friend of mine developed a file on her Narc boyfriend who tried to secure all his debts against her property. She systematically extracted him from her life in a very impressive way whilst also handling another series of vile circumstances all at the same time. INFPs can seem soft fluffy and scatty on the outside but when their backs against the wall they really aren’t.
Hi Mrs. Linton,
That totally fits with my persona. I used to describe myself as a fluffy bunny on the outside with razor sharp claws. It always shocks those that cross that line with me. Exes especially.
Your friend is not to be messed with! Good for her! 🙂
Infps are loveable but you are right-not to be messed with. Look like a hippy think like an assassin. It always gets people off guard. My old ford reminded me of an infp, it looked like a 1.1 but it was a 1.6 litre engine, looked like a girl, drove like a boxer.
Hi Mrs. Linton,
That is probably even more accurate, a hippy with an assassin mind. I dig your analogy with the truck too! It serves me well when I need it. I would rather default to hippy-fluffy soft bunny, but when that boundary is crossed, the gloves are off. I have a couple of friends that are the reverse of this. They look tough (so no one messes with them), though totally marshmellow deep deep within. It is a nice contrast. I wonder what their personality would come out as on MB.
Hi Indy All types can be tough but infps have the element of surprise if you haven’t seen it before look up “lock stock and two smoking barrels shooting scene” on youtube it’s so great… describes it perfectly.
Loved American Beauty 💔
It is a good film.
I like this movie too Tapan Zee.
Kevin Spacey may deserve to be punished but should we suddenly stop appreciate his work? Same with one of my fav – Woody Allen , Polanski or other artists. I read the article somewhere which made me think about it .
If bad people do brilliant work is it immoral to still enjoy it? I don’t know…
I’m kind of disappointed about House of Cards.
ABW—never seen HOC. if we didn’t like art produced by “bad” people we would be reduced to liking mediocrity, i suspect.
Yeah , I tend to agree with the author of the text i read who suggested that we should separate the artist from the art.
abrokenwing,
If bad people do brilliant work is it immoral to still enjoy it? I don’t know…
I kind of chuckled when I read what you wrote… Look where you are! I’m sure to some people HG is a bad guy.
Hi Persephoneascending1,
I know what you mean but it’s not quite the same .
This blog is a educational tool for us and therapeutic one for Mr Tudor (as a part of his treatment.) We are here to gain the knowledge and understanding not to enjoy or entertain ourselves ( although it may look this way sometimes) and we do so having in mind who he is and what he did to his victims.
Let’s not forget there is a reason why he wants his identity to remain hidden .We don’t know what he does in his professional life. What impact would this have on his career if people would know who he is ?
Kevin Spacey is a great actor ( no wonder) and it’s a shame that we’ll probably no longer be able to enjoy his work. He lost a life of success…but he brought it upon himself.
Definitely not a greater. His public statement was just dumb. Dumb. If he wrote it himself it just proves that he’s not a greater. If his publicist wrote it and he didn’t check it before he went out still dumb. A greater would have a better grasp of the public sentiment and would have used that to his advantage. MMR
HG is a narc is smart, wants a pretty mate but comes off not very sexual are they usually cerebral or elite?
Could you elaborate on what you mean by ‘not very sexual’?
Hg I don’t know why William said u r not very sexual but about a month ago somebody quoted something u wrote in ur sex book about how during sex u r looking for the woman’s reactions on what she likes then doing more of that to get fuel.while it’s nice u want to please her it was done for fuel. But I remember thinking wow u don’t enjoy sec for the usual reasons men do ie they like p###y tits and ass. Now granted I never read the book so u may have said otherwise somewhere else in the book but it gave me the impression u did not enjoy sex for the traditional physical pleasure
I think William is referring to how you basically are just tuning into the woman’s reactions and that’s what is turning you on. It’s more like mechanical and like you aren’t in the moment enjoying the more like animalistic experience of it….the pussy, tits, ass…again the animalistic sexual experience
That’s just my guess as to what he is getting at.
By not very sexual I mean she never wanted to have sex and if we did it was about once a month.
Overthinker
It is all about the fuel. You have to read Sex and The Narcissist. It is amazing. You will never look at sex the same again.
William
You should read the book, Sex and The Narcissist. It is enlightening, to say the least.
There is a line which I believe is from the book Sex and the Narcissist. It is so simple and to the point that I found it refreshing and it goes something like this ..I will be in your doorway, in your bed, in you. Three snapshots – boom, boom, boom. Sexy.
Absolutely sexy.
I was talking about my ex girlfriend not HG.
Lol I thought u meant hg
Thank you, William. I mis-read the comment. However, I still recommend the book if you are in an intimate relationship with a narcissist; it is excellent.
HG Tudor – I see that you have decided to not post my last 2 comments on here.
Easy there tiger, I think you will find I have.
Give me a break. This is the first time I have ever asked you where my comments were.
I did, tiger.
Sniglet,
I recall you accusing hg that lennox moderates the blog. Hg denied it, yet there were many back and forths btwn you and hg concerning it. I thought the matter was put to rest.
Some time later, a reader felt that hg is not the author of the articles and replies in the comments section. She questioned him. U immediately intervened and stated “Why do you ask?” Had the matter not been put to rest for you?
It is important when formulating an opinion to base it on facts.
I have some more examples but i will hold off for now. I will bring them up, if need be.
Sniglet,
U stated to hg:
“Give me a break. This is the first time I have ever asked you where my comments were.”
You have no right to ask where your comments are, not even once. It is his blog. He does not charge you membership. He is not ur employee. He decides what to post and what not to post. Asking him publicly is disrespectful.
Wow first u jumped on me when I said some person might not have had Internet now u jump on her for asking hg why her comments weren’t published u r right it’s hgs blog he can decide if he doesn’t want to publish a comment there’s been several of mine not published at least not yet but you have no right to tell other people what they can and cannot comment
Hi kim,
Oh! I’m sorry u felt i ‘jumped’ on u for the internet comment. If it appeared that way, i apologize. 💗
I recognized ur comment and i thanked u for it. U replied to me again, but unfortunately i have not had the chance to go back to the thread and reply further, as i have been busy on this thread. I have pending comments there. I will get to them soon.
Sniglet has been harsh with me in the past. She stated that i apologize too much, and sarcastically stated to apologize again, something to the effect – go ahead, u know u want to. It hurt me very much.
Yes I saw where you thanked me and I don’t think there’s any further comments I made that you need to attend to so don’t worry about that. I’m perfectly OK so forget about that . But it does seem like u do hold grudges against sniglet and people you perceive snubbed you in the past , it would be best to let it go ,just my opinion because it makes you look like your the one being petty in my opinion and even though u mean well hg is a big boy he can handle whatever is said towards him
Hi kim,
I have no prblms letting go of a grudge if enough time has passed, if the person does not repeat the behavior, or if the person apologizes since i have apologized.
In sniglet’s case, i had let it go and moved on, even though i apologized to her, she teased me abt apologizing too much as i stated, insulted me, and proceeded in name calling.
In this thread, she makes broad erroneous generalizations abt my comment. Again, i let it go. However, she nonetheless comments on another statement of mine, and proceeds to tell me that it is erroneous. Now i felt it is time to point out her contradictory behavior.
She states “It is well known that sex for MJ was child’s play.” This statement is incorrect, because a)how many pple believe this? b)has a poll been conducted? Is it really WELL KNOWN that MANY pple believe that ‘sex for mj was child’s play’?
This accusation is very serious. It is not to be generalized as such. But i like i stated, i had ignored it.
Later in the thread, when she told me that one of my statements is erroneous, though her above statement and later statements are erroneous, i felt it is time to speak up.
I have been a doormat my entire life, and only after i joined this blog, have i started to establish boundaries. So that is what i did w her. I was direct w her, and told her what i thought.
U r right. Hg is a big boy and does not need anyone defending him. I do not do it for hg. I do it for my peace of mind. I feel offended by 1)pple who repeatedly question if he is really the moderator here, 2)those who feel entitled that he must post and/or answer questions according to their time frame. Sniglet has done both.
I overpassed it many times, but how many times must i do this? I am a human being with feelings too. I felt it was time to point out that when she repeatedly makes factless assumptions about others, why does she point fingers at my comments? (which i based on court evidence including inconsistent testimonies, accusers changing dates randomly, video and audio footage of the accusers’ parents’ manipulations and motives, records of mj being out of town on some of the dates of the accusations, and more).
I am learning to establish boundaries and speak up for what i believe in, esp w those who bully me. I see nothing wrong w that.
U r entitled to ur opinion tho.
Jenna you remind me so much of myself when I was in my 20s. I found out late last night my mother was admitted into the hospital so I can’t devote any time to this topic today . I’m off to visit her with a very heavy confused heart.
Kim,
I am sending a special prayer for ur mother, u, and ur family. I hope she is better very soon dear.
Thank you miraculously she is not in the bad shape she should be considering her age, she is doing much much better than my sister made it sound when she called me last night, I’m very relieved.
As far as what we were discussing all I can say is that my suspicion is that their are people on this blog who might possibly enjoy watching other people in distress and you might want to keep this in mind when choosing to engage. It might be better to assert yourself in real life with people u actually know and practice those skills there and take everything that happens here with a grain of salt , just my humble oponion, you are a very sensitive person and much like losing ones virginity you must be careful who you share your sensitivity with
Kim,
I am very thankful that ur mother is not serious. I was especially worried because u r already dealing w narc abuse. Life can get tough.
Thank u for ur reply.
U stated: “… my suspicion is that their are people on this blog who might possibly enjoy watching other people in distress and you might want to keep this in mind when choosing to engage.”
I think u r correct. I will try to follow this advice. I do assert myself in my personal life these days, but only started doing so after i read comments here abt establishing boundaries and such.
U r correct abt me being v sensitive as well. My ex could have extracted much negative fuel frm me, but luckily he only did a few times. He prefers positive fuel and excitement instead!
In another thread, Sniglet stated: “jenna, my profile pic is prettier than yours” even though she has not uploaded hers.
I was not rude to her in return. I simply stated that it is her opinion, and it may very well be prettier, but we do not know because we have not seen it. She has also called me ‘derailed.’
I did not want to bring it up. But now, i feel it is necessary.
It may be why i felt i could be direct with her, because she has been direct with me. I would not be so direct with others on the blog.
Kim,
I hope this will not affect our relationship.
I like you very much.
I even feel priveleged that i know ur real name ‘kim’ and i feel happy to call u that instead of ‘overthinker’ because it makes me feel closer to u. 💗💗💗
rawr — that made me laugh
Tiger huh! That would be the White Siberian. Are you referring to the beautiful majestic creature or the savage within the creature?
Oh a bit of both I should think.
Jenna, you misunderstood my point/s and my intent. Aside from me, only one other person understood my angle.
Sniglet,
Frm the words and language YOU CHOSE, ur point was clear. I did not misunderstand. Moving on…
Never mind, I just noticed one of them. I checked this article on one laptop and my comments are not showing there yet they are showing on another laptop. Very strange.
Your laptop must be a MJ sympathiser.
Pple who believe mj is guilty – pls do the research. It is all there, in pieces. It is unfair to assume somebody is guilty based on half informations. Do remember he was found innocent by two grand juries and hundreds of witnesses.
How would u like it if i accused u of molesting my nephew? I will make up a story and do just that. It will be ur word against mine unless er… u give me money.
He was not found innocent. He is innocent until proven guilty. One does not have to prove innocence. That is the golden thread.
Hg, ty for correcting my wording. (I wrote it quickly).
One is innocent until proven guilty. Thus, one can only be disproven guilty.
It is similar to how a scientific theory cannot be proven, only disproven.
By a jury and a court of law, Mj is innocent because he was found not guilty on all charges.
Thx hg.
Brian ,
You are correct. Michael Jackson is cold blooded child molester, and if any of you think otherwise, go seek help. The proof was all out in the open for everyone to see. He is one sick piece of shit.
After chandler and arvizo, it set the stage for numerous others to accuse mj of molestation.
Pls take the time to see the evidence for yourself. In this day and age, we have the power of knowledge. We have many resources available to us including court documents, video footage, audio footage, etc.
If u choose not to see the evidence yourself, it is unfair to formulate an opinion.
http://youtu.be/FhQcQrYorBU
Michael Jackson is a Chomo.
HG1fan,
That is quite a word lol! That word made me laugh.
HG – Great article! I love this series!
I never saw the answer to which school you believe Harvey Weinstein to be in…?
Also, did I miss the article you previously mentioned you’d be publishing re Hollywood’s reaction (or lack thereof)?
I went with Lower Greater for Kevin Spacey. Looking forward to hearing your take and why. Very educational!
Thanks!
I haven’t revealed which school HW is in yet, but I shall. There is a companion piece with regard to the victims, so I will reveal then.
I’m learning so much from this post and comments from us followers and you! I LOVE your Blog! It’s the best education out there! I can’t wait to read your companion piece. I voted ULN. Still so much to learn!!!!
HW is a somatic, I’m sure. I know he’s not attractive but all the other signs are there…He’s too fixated with sex to be cerebral and not smart enough to be élite (or he wouldn’t have been caught)…
So lesser somatic is what I think.
I went with upper midranger for Spacey because of his whining and crying and pity plays. I believe that would be beneath a Greater.
It really gets to me, all someone needs to do is give to charity and they automatically become a good person in the eyes of the world. Like that’s difficult when you’re a millionaire…..
This article is brilliant. It increases my knowledge when u give us real life examples of narcissists. Thank u.
Kevin spacey disgusts me. Anyone who preys upon children disgust me. I have always found him creepy looking. I have never watched him in a movie nor wished to. He should be chemically castrated and have ED for the rest of his life pls. I voted lower greater. He seems calculating. He does not seem cowardly, like a mid ranger. Nor does he seem knee-jerk, like a lesser.
Corey feldman has stated that there are many pedophile rings in hollywood. They prey on child actors. He does not name them tho. Corey haim was raped by one such ‘powerful’ pedophile at the age of 11. Corey feldman himself was sexually molested by a hollywood pedophile. Sadly, corey haim died at the age of 38. Reason for death is pneumonia, but he was struggling w drugs for years b4 that due to his unresolved childhood abuse in hollywood. RIP corey haim.
Feldman stated that he is receiving death threats because of wanting to reveal the names of the predators.
Feldman also stated that sexual allegations against michael jackson are completely false. He stated that they were good friends when he was a kid, that he knows a pedophile when he sees one since he experienced abuse in the industry himself, and that mj was definitely not a pedophile, but rather too good and innocent. RIP mj.
Feldman states that in his knowledge, there are at least six pedophiles in hollywood that he can easily name. It makes me sad and nauseous that children are being hurt in this manner.
Thank you Jenna. Feldman is an interesting individual indeed.
Thank u hg.
Hi Jenna,
It is very interesting what you wrote about Corey Feldman. Wikipedia: “On October 25, 2017, in response to the Harvey Weinstein sexual abuse allegations, Feldman started an Indiegogo campaign to finance a film about his life that will expose the secret pedophilia that he claims is just as common in Hollywood as sexism and sexual assault”.
As for Michael Jackson, Martin Bashir made a documentary on MJ’s life several years ago. He convinced MJ to trust him. After MJ opened up to him about his life, Bashir distorted the truth. It was sad to watch how this man destroyed MJ’s reputation. MJ was innocent.
Hi EB and fellow readers,
Kevin spacey is a pedophile. There are many more pedophiles in hollywood. But michael jackson, was NOT a pedophile.
Martin bashir interviewed princess diana. So michael jackson trusted him. But as u stated, bashir distorted facts. For eg, mj had a bus of terminally ill kids come to his neverland ranch weekly, for free. He provided them access to the rides, the animals, meals, which mj paid for himself. All he wanted in return was to brighten their lives for a day and see their smiles. Basically, mj was too trusting. The world teased him, accused him falsely for money, and eventually he was on so many anti depressants that it gave him insomnia which indirectly killed him. He said he loves children because they don’t judge him like adults do.
Martin bashir tried to bring mj down by later stating the kids coming to neverland for the day are in danger. But martin bashir will hopefully live in hell and mj continues to live in our hearts. I forever grieve the loss of this beautiful soul. 😢
Mj’s ex-wife, lisa marie presley, who knows him v well said he NEVER hurt a child. He himself said that he would slit his own wrists b4 hurting a child.
About the mothers who accused him of molesting their kids – many were found to have accused pple in the past in order to gain money. Michael was just too naive. He should not have had kids sleep over at his home. He was an easy target. He did not know pple could stoop this low and take advantage of the ‘scenario’ and make it look ugly, for M.O.N.E.Y.
If the accusations were true, NO mother would settle for money. She would want justice served. But they all settled for money – millions, becoz mj did not want to go to court. The second time, he did go to court, and was found innocent in a court of law.
Mj was deprived of his childhood and was trying to relive it. He felt happy playing w kids. Yet he was so sad – so sad for all the abuse he suffered at the hands of his father. So sad for not being normal. So sad for being forced to bring income for the family at such a young age else he would be beaten. His dad confirmed that he used to beat the kids. He said that at least it kept his kids off drugs. His dad is most likely a lesser narc.
His dad also drugged him w female hormone injections arnd the age of 10, so his million dollar voice would not change. This brought many effeminate changes in mj, including less facial hair, infertility, impotence, and asexuality. Paris, prince, and blanket are not biologically his. A sperm donor was used. It is also why mj underwent many plastic surgeries. His brain chemistry was changing, he felt more feminine, and he was not satisfied w his masculine facial features. Lisa marie presley, his ex-wife writes abt the ‘drugging of the children’ in her song ‘to whom it may concern’ expressing anger.
Basically, mj was a forced castrato, similar to the castrati of 18th century italy who were revered for their powerful singing voices – lungs of an adult, and able to reach high pitches.
When the santa barbara police arrested and questioned mj, they put him through hell. Mj stated in an interview that he asked to use the restroom. The cops locked him in there for 45 min. There was feces spread all over the walls, the ceiling, the floor. One officer asked ‘does it smell good enuf for u in there?’ frm a window and mj replied ‘it’s alright, it’s ok.’
In fact, corey feldman stated that he released the names of the pedophiles to the santa barbara police in 1993. But the police were so caught up in bringing michael jackson down at the time, that they just brushed it aside.
The lapd are scum of the earth. They wasted time on an innocent soul who was only and always trying to spread love. He sacrificed his life, his sexuality, to bring us music. Instead, the lapd needed to arrest the real pedophiles.
Mj was truly a giving person who wanted peace on earth. He was an angel that the earth did not deserve. He suffered tremendously at the hands of this cruel world. 😢
Tears are flowing down my face as i write this.
💗💗💗💗💗💗💗💗💗💗💗💗
I love u michael joseph jackson. RIP.
💗💗💗💗💗💗💗💗💗💗💗💗
1. Spacey is a hebephile. His sexual interest was in a 14 year old boy who had reached puberty. He would be a paedophile if he had a sexual interest in a pre-pubescent child.
2. Do I send the invoice to the Estate of Michael J. Jackson?
HG,
1. Thank u for the clarification.
2. Lol on invoice comment!
You are welcome.
I though MJ was guilty because:
Neverland was either for him…or something to lure children.
Gave wine to kids and called it ‘jesus juice’ .
Slept in the same bed as the kids.
Had a door with an alarm on it for when the maid was
approaching.(creepy)
if any of these facts are wrong or made up by Mr Bashir then I would reconsider.
Brian,
It is not true. Bashir distorted the truth. He deliberately manipulated and changed the facts. He twisted MJ’s words to make him look like an uncaring father and a pervert who abused children sexually when this was never the case. Many things that Bashir said contradicted what MJ had told him.
People like Bashir are cunning and calculating. They are very good at faking empathy and compassion. They say they care and want to help you and of course they need as much information as possible about you. They want you to trust them. MJ would have never let Bashir and his team *help* him if he had known about Bashir’s agenda before. There is a video called The Footage You Were Never Meant to See.
I am no Michael Jackson fan, but Bashir is a turd.
I agree. I am not a MJ fan either but his case was on the news and I watched the documentary on YT years ago. It is more about injustice. I can usually tell if someone is the victim or the perpetrator. Not all narcissists are good at lying or at playing the innocent lamb, like Madeleine McCanns’ parents, for instance.
I meant, the McCanns are not good at lying and at playing the innocent lamb.
Hi brian,
“After millions of dollars were spent by prosecutors and police departments in two jurisdictions, and after 2 grand juries questioned close to 200 witnesses, including 30 children who knew michael jackson, not a single corroborating witness could be found.” (Newsday, 1993)
Upon questioning of witnesses, none could corroborate that wine was given to children.
“Having spent much of last week watching Jackson’s videotape collection, officers admitted they could find no proof there of child sex abuse.” (The Times, 1993)
Michael didn’t trust the housekeeper, hence the alarms. In court, when questioned under oath, she admitted she stole items from neverland and sold them. She later resigned.
One of the main accusers, jordan chandler, finally came out some yrs back and admitted he lied abt jackson. His father made him lie for money.
Do you think that Weinstein and Spacey are innocent?
I believe weinstein is guilty
I believe spacey is guilty.
Brian, abt sleeping with kids, michael said the kids slept in his bed and he slept on the floor. Keep in mind that mj’s bedroom is a two-story, gigantic duplex, not a small intimate bedrm. I do believe mj made a v wrong judgement call in allowing kids to sleep in his bed. However, he repeatedly admits that they slept there and believes it’s ok. He is just too naive. A real pedophile would try to hide it.
Also keep in mind that mj was asexual and impotent. He lacked any sexual drive.
In an earlier post, you decried the “you word against mine” yet you accept that MJ said that “the kinds slept in his bed and he slept on the floor” – why do you accept what he says without qualification or caveat when you earlier raised the issue of he said v they said?
A real paedophile would try to hide it? Really? Did Jimmy Saville hide what he did or did he hide in plain sight?
Further, if he was impotent how did he sire three children? Are they not his children? Are they his but they were conceived by artificial insemination? Or is it that he conceived them in the usual manner?
If he was asexual, was he forced to reproduce?
Understand I have no agenda re Michael Jackson but I am testing your own perspective and the evidential standard.
Mark Lester was a friend of MJ and also a sperm donor. ML said that MJ had problems having sex, that he had a low count sperm and he asked for help. ML wanted to take a paternity test when he noticed his own daughter looked like Paris as a child but MJ’s family refused. MJ’s eldest son could be Mark Lester’s biological son too. I have not heard about Blanket’s biological father, though.
Hello hg,
I do not believe everything that mj says. I did not base my decision on media reports, as those are not always accurate. The media can sensationalize and obscure facts for ratings:
http://youtu.be/QSO3fCA7C4E
I watch interviews and i like to hear the answer frm the ‘horse’s mouth’. I also observe if the narrator is drowning out the interviewee’s voice and inserting his/her own comments, which diane sawyer does often. I then base my decision on wording of response, body language, tone, appropriateness of response, history of responses given, and what evidence exists to back up the response.
For example, mj has stated in an interview which i watched, that he had sex w debbie rowe, mother of his first two kids, prince and paris. In my opinion, this is a lie. I believe mj is infertile. He used sperm donors, and either artificial insemination or invitro fertilization. He was not forced to reproduce. He badly wanted his own children. They may not be biologically his, but he raised them, so he is their father.
Imo, Prince’s biological father is andrew klein and Paris’s biological father is martin lester. The latter is the godfather of mj’s 3 kids (and mj is the godfather of lester’s 4 kids). Blanket i believe was adopted at birth.
Martin lester speaking abt the possibility of being paris’s father (he donated his sperm to mj in 1996):
http://youtu.be/LZUl_l0uW7I
Imo, lester is not lying, based on my criteria i explained above. I also see a striking resemblance between lester’s kids and paris jackson. One would have to watch the video to formulate an opinion. Because it is time consuming, if u choose not to watch, i can understand. But i have referenced it fyi.
Mj also states in an interview which i watched, that he never took female hormone pills/injections, which i believe is a lie. I base my opinion on the above criteria. Taking female hormones prior to puberty causes infertility and is irreversible. It causes many feminizing traits as well, like higher voice, thinning of the skin, less broadening of the shoulders, reduced body and facial hair growth.
He is not very masculine. You can see his body (not including private area) in the following video. One can judge for him/herself:
http://youtu.be/pAyKJAtDNCw
Regarding jimmy savile, i did not know who he was. I just watched some interviews on yt w him, after ur reference. He is criminal, a ‘dirty old man’ and is inappropriately touching girls on air. I wish he was penalized for his actions. It is v disturbing. Imo, most pedophiles would hide it. He may be in the small percentage of those that do not hide it. But i would need to do more research concerning this.
So, if Michael Jackson says the children are his and he had sex with Debbie Rowe, which is an admission by him, that however is a lie. But if he says he didn’t molest the children who accused him, and of course he would say that wouldn’t he, he is telling the truth and not lying?
It is my opinion based on evidence presented in court.
I have included links in another post.
Fair enough.
Hi Jenna,
Thank you for your posts and interesting information. You have built your own opinion based on facts presented in court and also on other different behaviours and observations. I wish there were more people like you in this world who can think for themselves.
As you can see in this case, people are not interested in researching any of the family members making the accusations at all (Who are they? Why are they doing this? What is their motive?). Instead, all the attention is focused on the accused. This is because most people will rapidly decide what the truth is. They will focus on gathering any information supporting their opinion, not matter how irrelevant or where it comes from. If a group decides the accused is guilty, they will point their finger at him and concentrate on his behaviour (and not on the accusers’) to prove themselves that they are right. Once there is an interpretation of the events, the group will stick to it. New findings or evidence against their views will be ignored or they will give them another interpretation to fit their own opinion. Any information that might fit what they decided to believe is automatically accepted.
Cold-blooded child molesters or predators look calm, composed, self-confident, self-assured. They do not look anxious, nervous, insecure, scared or mental unstable like MJ did. Child molesters and predators are not affected physically or emotionally when subjected to chronic stress or chronic abuse. They have rigid boundaries. For example, MJ said he had agreed to 10 concerts and then he was asked to do 50. Instead of saying no, he accepted and also said that they would kill him. His health was poor. This is not the response of a cold-blooded predator.
I was not interested in this case at all and I use to think MJ could be guilty but I did not want to build an opinion. Years later when I was learning about group psychology, I came across a documentary, read some articles and watched videos and I was able to see more clearly what was going on.
Hi E.B.,
Ur statement is very valid:
“If a group decides the accused is guilty, they will point their finger at him… to prove themselves that they are right… New findings or evidence against their views will be ignored or they will give them another interpretation to fit their own opinion.”
U nailed it!
In psychology, this phenomenon is called ‘confirmation bias’.
“A confirmation bias is when a person selectively seeks out information that supports a belief or idea that they already have, thus ‘confirming’ their existing beliefs. However, information that supports the contrary is not taken into consideration, dismissed, or selectively ignored. (study.com, confirmation bias applied to criminal justice)
“By not seeking out objective facts, interpreting information in a way that only supports their existing beliefs, and only remembering details that uphold these beliefs, they often miss important information.” (verywell.com, cognitive psychology)
Many pple r not interested in doing their own research. With so much information available to us, including video footage, audio recordings, testimonies, cross examinations, court transcripts, they still will formulate an opinion based on inaccurate and misleading press reports.
Unfortunately, in mj’s case, the press would report only the allegation w an absurd title for ratings, eg. ‘wacko jacko’ and not report abt the cross examination, in which it was obvious that the accuser was lying based on date changes, shaky evidence, motive, inconsistent stories, and even mj having solid alibis on the dates the supposed abuse took place.
Jenna,
Thank you very much for letting me know about it. I did not know there was a term for this behaviour already. Nice to meet someone like you who is aware of these dynamics. All people I know are totally blind to it.
EB,
Thank u.
U r very perceptive to figure out this phenomena on ur own! U shud consider a career in psychology, if u have not already done so. I read many of ur comments and find them very insightful. U r an asset to the blog. 🌹
Thank you Jenna, you are so kind!
Hi jenna…very interesting facts on micheal jackson. I had no idea his dad injected him with femsle hormones. What a freak! 🙁 i do know his dad was an evil man and abused him terribly!
I agree Sillyolperson I think Martin Bashir is really nasty and underhand, I hated the way he manipulated MJ. I know there is a question over MJs narcissism but Martin Bashirs treatment of him was disgusting by any standard By all accounts Madonna turned down an interview with Martin Bashir after that and who wouldn’t! As an aside Iam sorry you were ogled at by the yet to be chief of police.
Brian – you are correct! It is well known that sex for MJ was child’s play.
I agree with Brian
Interesting, it’s possible that MJ, and the parents are bad and Bashir is merely manipulative and ambitious…with the side effect of uncovering the truth.
The parents could have sold their kids into going over to the ranch, Bashir then tricked MJ into revealing too much information under the guise of friendship.
I will check out ‘The Footage You Were Never Meant to See’ to see if the jesus juice and ‘maid alarm’ were fabrications.
Bashir was being weird with Robert Downey Jr. during a small interview which was supposed to be about Iron Man so yes he is not exactly on the level either. It all depends if he fabricates things or not.
Another thing which is suspicious is the way MJ held that baby out of the window, Bashir didn’t make him do that, and it shows a lack of regard for children.
Entirely agree with your observation in your final paragraph.
I think mj is innocent even though hanging out with kids is grossly inappropriate but all the allegations were made when he lived in Neverland in his thirties or forties don’t know exact age he was but I think a true pedophile would have been molesting kids when they were also a kid or at least when he was a teenager or in his twenties but nobody ever accused him when he was that age or came toward to say he molested them back then I just think he was becoming increasingly disturbed as he aged but not necessarily a child molestor
Brian,
MJ was physically punished and also controlled by his father, who was a parasite and profited from his success. He was different. However, there is a difference between being peculiar or different and being a child predator. He certainly did things which were not correct (showing his child to his fans by dangling him over the balcony or letting children sleep on his bed while he slept on the floor in the same room) but he did not sexually abuse them. I have not met any parent who did not make any mistake yet. Parents can be irresponsible sometimes and many of them do things which are far worse than what MJ did (toddlers who accidentally drown in a family pool because they were not looked after) and still they do not seem to be judged or condemned by society as being uncaring or irresponsible.
Narcissists know how to ruin people. It all starts with a rumour. Once it has reached a group of people and they start gossiping, it becomes a truth. People want to believe it. A piece of truth is used to construct a whole story around it. Big lies are easily believed than small lies. If you tell a big lie often enough and if the big lie is contrary to the target’s values, people will be more prone to believe it.
People concentrate on isolated episodes like those you mentioned and try to find answers to match the rumour to prove themselves that what is being said is true. They cannot see *the bigger picture*: character assassination as a punishment by a narcissist who felt criticized by something MJ did or say to them.
This is my opinion and you are entitled to have yours.
Hi brian,
Mj should not have shown the baby over the balcony like that. It was a wrong judgement call.
But if you watch closely, he was holding the baby very tightly under the arms, it was for 2 seconds, and mj states exactly how tightly he was holding the baby in the following documentary made by maury povich, entitled ‘Michael Jackson: the Footage You Were Never Meant to See’:
http://youtu.be/mI_jW-XEIHQ
Another thing about MJ, why does he have to have children come over to his house and sleep in his bed?
Why cant he visit the childrens hospital and interact with them in public with people watching? seems suss.
The Smoking Gun website has a good summary of the evidence, I see MJ gave the kids nicknames and did mirroring.
The bit about mirroring can be read here:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/crime/case-against-michael-jackson?page=0,1
Thank you for the article. I do not know if those allegations about MJ are true because there is no evidence. It is all about what witnesses said. Some children are good at lying and at ruining other people’s career (e.g. teachers) as from age 8 or earlier. I know a boy who started at age 6. His mother, who is a narcissist, manipulates him as to what to say and how to behave. We do not know if what those boys said about MJ is true or if it comes from narcissistic parents with an agenda of their own.
Valid observation.
Jenna
You made the following erroneous statement “If the accusations were true, NO mother would settle for money. She would want justice served. But they all settled for money – millions… ” This is an unsound argument on your part, fallacious.
Thousands of civil cases have settled over many years across the globe and it is common for these civil disputes to amicably resolve without admitting liability (wrongdoing). The law permits this with good reason. The Defendant, in this case MJ, benefited by not having a recorded conviction (not being convicted) and the Plaintiff, in this case the child and his family, won a monetary compensation and punitive damages. The mother that you speak of has received justice for her child via payment. To state that no mother would settle for money if the Defendant is accused of wrongdoing is false. Many persons settle including mothers because they feel vindicated by money for their pain and suffering. MJ’s right to say that he was not convicted is of particular importance because it gives the public the perception that he is innocent and holds his good reputation intact. Usually settled agreements contain a confidentiality clause which prevents the compensated party from discussing the case, makes clear all rights being settled/waived and eliminates the right to sue over the same matter. Paula Jones and Bill Clinton settled for $750k and without guilt and conviction on Bill’s part, but we all know the truth there. Bill O’Reilly settled for around $13mil, he maintains his innocence.
The main reason settlements are encouraged by governments is for their cost effectiveness i.e. to save the already overloaded private and public resources, time and money is better served in the Plaintiff’s pocket than a lawyer’s.
Please tell me what mother would want their children dragged through the court system, reminding them of MJ’s impropriety. A great mother would seek justice in the shortest possible time, for the best compensation negotiated in the most painless way to the victim. A child needs to get back to having a normal childhood, and not have prolonged encounters with MJ, testifying in courtrooms, police officers and lawyers. Not productive, hence settlement is advised.
By the way your short arguments pro MJ contained only 2 excerpts from 1993 news articles and therefore not persuasive. There were 5 allegations brought against MJ in total of which we know – 1993 (Jordan Chandler & Jason Francia), 2005 (Gavin Arvizio), 2013 (Wade Robson), 2014 (James Safechuck).
Indeed, factor in also that the judicial system, whether civil or criminal, involves human beings and their decisions and therefore there is never a guaranteed outcome. There remains litigation risk, for both parties and that is why plea bargaining occurs in the criminal sphere and settlement in the civil sphere. In the UK, only 2% of litigated actions ever go to trial, the rest are settled.
You can also turn the argument around. If MJ was so sure that he had done nothing wrong, why settle? Why not defend the case all the way and ensure the claim was dismissed following trial? He settled to avoid risk and for other factors which Sniglet has referred to.
Sniglet,
re: “what mother would want their children dragged through the court system, reminding them of MJ’s impropriety.”
If the mother is a malignant narcissist with ulterior motives, she will do it. Her children are an extension of herself. Her vindictive rage and fury against her target and what she gets from it is more important than her children. I did not know that such people existed until I met one.
Sniglet,
I have not made any ‘erroneous’ statement in the above post.
I was using colloquial language and stating my opinion.
Let me rephrase:
IN MY OPINION, many empathic mothers, do not wish to settle for money if their child is molested. To them, money cannot replace the suffering the childi had to endure. Even for settlement, the child has to make a detailed statement describing all sexual acts he/she is accusing the perpetrator of, and explain very precisely the horrifying sexual acts, naming and/or describing body parts involved, and undergo questioning. It will be a shorter time frame no doubt, but it is still very painful. The downfall is the child will not see justice served. Money cannot compensate for justice being served, and some peace of mind and closure that brings.
You made a statement:
“A great mother would seek justice in the shortest possible time, for the best compensation negotiated in the most painless way to the victim.”
Should i say ur statement is ‘erroneous’? I will not, because it is your opinion.
I definitely do not believe all ‘great’ mothers would settle for monetary compensation.
U stated that my ‘short arguments’ ‘contained only 2 excerpts’.
Pls note the first excerpt is a statement based on close to TWO HUNDRED witnesses. Shall i list all 200? It would be too time consuming.
Correction:
* Shall i list ALMOST 200?
MJ settled because he did not want to endure court. His health was being affected gravely. He lost a significant amount of weight, started taking anti-depressants and pain killers.
But he finally did go to court to see justice served, and because many pple after that tried to extract money frm him, following chandler’s example.
Regarding Jordan chandler, the following audio was presented in court:
http://youtu.be/0NlhDPjEI8I
Evan chandler: “This man is going to be humiliated beyond belief. He will not believe what is going to happen to him… beyond his worst nightmares. He will not sell one more record. If i go through with this, I win big time. I will get everything i want. They will be destroyed forever.”
Evan chandler, a dentist and a screenwriter, wanted three screenplay deals with michael. When michael offered only one (‘Robin Hood: Men in Tights’, 1993), he became vindictive. He was also $68,000 behind on child support payments.
You can hear it yourself in the link i provided. The extortion tape was presented in court.
Or the words of a angry man angered by what has happened to his child?
Hi hg!
The convo on the extortion tape took place on july 8, 1993.
Eight days later, evan chandler claimed that his son gavin made the molestation accusations against mj.
Correction: *his son jordan
Regarding gavin arvizo, there is video footage of his mother coaching him to lie in the documentary below.
She did not know the camera was filming at the time, and she starts laughing. To her son, she says something to the effect of – trying to make it look dirty when it’s not. Pls see video footage:
http://youtu.be/FhQcQrYorBU
Larry nimmer, who was on mj’s defense team as a documentary filmmaker and legal video specialist, made the documentary. If you take the time to watch it, you will see video footage of the arvizos speaking, and more evidence that was preented in court, disproving mj’s guilt.
Nimmer: “I spent many days videotaping inside neverland and 2 days on the witness stand presenting and narrating my video footage for the jury.”
This documentary is available at http://www.nimmer.net/
However, i was lucky to find it on youtube. Again:
http://youtu.be/FhQcQrYorBU
Janet arvizo, gavin’s mother, also tried to extract money frm chris tucker and jay leno before mj, but they realized she is trouble and distanced themselves frm the family b4 it was too late.
Shorter video footage of the arvizos telling the truth, for once, abt how kind mj really is:
http://youtu.be/Bez7QCXJJV4
When the boy was cured of cancer, they did not leave neverland. When mj was out of town, they felt entitlement with the staff and became demanding. The mother had mj’s driver take her to spas for body waxes etc. and charged thousands of dollars to mj. The boy figured out the code to the wine cellar, and they started accessing the wine cellar also. Mj did not like this, he started to realize that they are using him for money, and began distancing himself frm the arvizos. That is when they accused him of child molestation, in order to extract more money from him.
HG – 2% of UK litigated cases is very small. You have mentioned the risk of losing a case in litigation which is absolutely right and one of the primary reasons people tend to settle. There is a fear factor involved. And about MJ not wanting to litigate another great point.
Yes HG I looked after my daughter as a baby 10 hours a day and I didnt even think to do something like he did out the window.
E.B.
It is true that a narcissistic mother would be able to coach the kids to say he was mirroring.
In the article though it says the FBI was able to confirm that the child knew where MJ kept his porn magazines, and the child even knew the number to the safe in which they were stored.
They were also able to confirm that MJ wanted to send that family to South America.
Brian,
If the FBI actually found porn magazines in the safe, then that would a proof that what the children said was true.
MJ wanted to show his baby to his fans standing outside his hotel. He held the baby over the balcony. He admitted it was wrong. He did not make Bashir responsible for his behaviour.
I do not know much about his life, to be honest. I wanted to know more about those allegations against him when I watched a documentary some years ago and saw how Bashir distorted the truth by the end of it. Then I learnt he had betrayed his trust.
They did they found adult soft porn a number of copies of playboy and hustler adult naked woman nor kids
That’s lovely u cared for your own child ten hours a day but I cared for my infant daughter alone 24 hours a day and she literally never slept more than 20 minutes in a 24 hour span i literally didnt sleep the first year of her life and during my sleep deprivation there was a few instances where without thinking I did something which I later realized was potentially dangerous why do u think parents put a carseat on top of a car and drive off and forget or why infants roll of a bed or couch when being changed parents make idiotic mistakes all the time good for you that you never did but most have
Brian,
Ty for the link to the ‘smoking gun’ article. However, i do not believe everything i read. Fake news travelled fast during the mj trial.
http://youtu.be/QSO3fCA7C4E
Also, in a court of law, prosecutors confirmed no child porn was found.
MJ should have hired you for his legal team Jenna, you are mounting a spirited defence!
Thank you.
OverThinker : I made mistakes, like not attaching a seat belt in a high chair , but this was due to being overwhelmed like you were (although you were working far more hours)
If you search on google for michael jackson porn magazines you get this one
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jun/23/authorities-rebut-claims-child-porn-found-michael-/
which says conventional magazines were found but ‘non pornographic photos of naked children’ which is weird.
Some very amusing points have surface on this blog.
1. Kim, you are quite right about Jenna and thank you for your input. Very perceptive indeed. If she contorts herself into a human pretzel over something not to her linking, just ignore her.
2. Jenna, I am incredibly amused at you writing me my “rights”. You are absurd and hypocritical. It tickles me that you actually take your own comments seriously and truly believe in what you type. You take the post of HG’s Lieutenant with fervor. You win the Darwin Award and I command you to Stand at Ease.
3. Very amused at HG’s “spirited defence” comment too.
4. Jenna I have a reply drafted for each and every point one of your points and some…., a reply, which I am yet to decide if I want to submit. You see, I may not want to put myself in a position of asking HG a 2nd time why my comment has not been released from moderation (for real this time) plus apparently I have no such right according to Wanna-be Lawyer Jenna! Further, it would be much safer and palatable for you to view that dick pic from your therapy guy than to read my reply.
Sniglet,
Again u r resorting to insults, and baseless degrading.
It does not surprise me though, as it seems to be ur only option. Try for once having a meaningful discourse with me without insults, condescending remarks, and ad hominem attacks. U may find it liberating.
I made ONE mistake in the past of assuming u r male due to u stating who is prettier, prettiest on the blog. I apologized for thinking u r male. Yet u continue to mock me, tease me, insult me, call me names.
1)comment abt human pretzel made me laugh. Thx for the insult. I expected nothing more frm u.
2)i am not ‘absurd’ nor ‘hypocritical’
In fact, it is u who behaves w contradictions many times. U wrote that my statement is erroneous, though it was only my opinion. U ALSO made several broad statements which are erroneous.
Hg does not need a lieutenant on the blog. We are remote, tertiary, and meaningless to him. If i defend hg, it is for my own peace of mind. He gains nothing frm it.
I’ve observed u being disrespectful to him many times, but i kept quiet. This time, i spoke up. I have the right to speak my mind to anyone on this blog, other than the moderator.
I will repeat it: we have no right to be disrespectful towards hg when he is nothing but polite to us, to ask where our comments are considering his busy schedule and the fact that we are not paying him, or to question him as to who is really moderating the blog. Since u assumed lennox moderates the blog, this shows ur own hypocrisy. U tell others abt ‘erroneous’ statements when u urself make erroneous statements.
3)if hg’s comment amuses u, then i will just say this: exercising respect w the moderator of the blog is dignified, courteous, and honorable.
4)i have provided all the links to the facts. If u take the time to go thru them, it is crystal clear that mj is innocent. But u will not take the time to do that. U seem too focussed on proving me wrong when u state that u have an answer drafted for each of my points. Btw, they r not my points. They r links to court evidence, which i briefly expanded on, because i knew u would not take the time to watch the entire footage. U will formulate ur opinion based on accusations only, rather than cross examination results, and evidence disproving the accusations.
Abt the ‘dick’ pics, I have stated that for me, the male anatomy is repulsive to look at. I cannot tolerate ‘dick’ pics and do not even feel comfortable using the word ‘dick’. Ur memory seems to be fading, as i was clear abt that in my post.
Thank you.
Ditto, line them up and castrate all of them.
Wow the things I didnt know!! Guess Ill have to watch more news. After everything Ive read, Im going with MGN. As far as the tears go, they can all do that to their benefit.
Dear Mr Tudor,
Kevin appears very stoic, calm, poised, indifferent. He seems to be “doing what’s necessary” (man of few words). He’s an empty kinda character, no feelings whatsoever! He trusts no one (obviously stems from his child abuse). He’s smart, covalidictorian, patron of the charity theatre for children, on the board of directors for motion picture funds, multi talented and skilled in acting, directing, writing and singing. Politically minded and friends with Bill Clinton and such. Using the standard, “can’t remember, must’ve been drunk” liner, is pathetic but typical. Always redirect the blame and never admit to anything you did willingly and knowingly.
Unfortunately for him, this appears to have reared its ugly head and I don’t think he anticipated this . He’s playing low key and expending very little energy. Even though H of C is now finishing, I don’t think he will be too perturbed as he is extremely wealthy and I believe he will play the gay card and bide his time and perhaps hibernate for a while until the coast is clear. I think he will appear emotionless and without compassion throughout this.
Be interesting to see where this leads as he was sexually inappropriate with a minor!
I feel he is a “greater”, he probably thinks he’s invincible and on top of his pedestal, however, I’m leaning to a middle greater, cos he got sprung which makes him not so upper greater to me.
Different to the Weinstein baboon.
Next please …… Dustin Hoffman ?
“It is not reflective of who I am” … really????
I had an Admin Manager once, who decided to look down the top of my dress when I holding a drink in each hand at a Xmas party. My instant reaction was to put the drinks down and hit him across the shoulder in front of everyone and said “how dare you” He demoted me and made my life hell that I had to leave. He ended up Chief Inspector of Police …. go figure !
Looking forward to your answer!
Thankyou for these neuron puzzles 🤔
Ps …now he’s ” seeking evaluation and treatment” ….
😂
Very well thought out and well executed article – wow.
By the way, do you ever intend on showing us your face? I’m quite curious what you look like. No a description will not suffice 🙂
Fascinating insight into the profile and indentifiers of your kind HG. Thank you!
I definitely recognized the narcissism from the first paragraph of his statement but I interpreted it a little differently. Maybe you can clear it up for me?
To me, the first paragraph of his “apology” seemed like less effort was put into the denial and more effort was put into an opportunity to revictimize and humiliate the accuser. (Especially because sexual assault is all about power, entitlement and humiliating/rendering insignificant the victim).
Rather than outright saying “I didn’t do it” instead he says “I don’t remember it”. In other words, “gee, you weren’t memorable to me at all but, I obviously had a huge impact on you!”
To me it seems like he was trying to accomplish to things: 1) minimize his victim, and 2) bolster his own ego and state his importance and status. In doing so, they both relive the incident. Both as victim and perpetrator. And spacey gains additional fuel.
Am I totally off?
Wildflower
Spacey’s apology was essentially a denial of events, which is effortless from the perspective of the narcissist. Spacey puts more energy into the second part of the Twin Line’s of Defence: distract and deflect by bringing attention to his “coming out,” thus moving the conversation away from Rapp. You are correct: Rapp is now an afterthought, which is the whole purpose of distract & deflect. He does not remember the assault because he has no accountability for his actions (denial). And “I don’t remember it” gives him wiggle room (plausible deniability); he will blame the alcohol. He minimizes his victim and defends his superiority to maintain control, however, he is being wounded. When you have a chance read the article below.
https://narcsite.com/2017/07/23/the-narcissists-twin-lines-of-defence/
I have known K.S. is gay for such a long time now, I thought it was common knowledge. But after his, hmm, outing, I saw that it wasn’t. How strange. I enjoyed the article, HG, I didn’t know there were other complaints about his behaviour before I read it here. By the way, I cannot find the answer about H.W. What kind of Narcissist is he, afterall? I had voted for UMR.
Great article and i did not know kevin spacey was gay but many actors are. I always found him a creepy looking character but he is a talented actor.
I voted lower midrange. I wouldve went with lesser but he does play the pity card and he does have a tiny bit of control and tries to shush people up and manage the facade. A lesser wouldnt bother covering their tracks or would do a terrible job of it. Also the fact he does charitable works and pretends to be an advocate for different causes shows calculation to maintain his facade and have something to fall back on as proof if hes called out on his less than charitable behaviours. A lesser i dont think would have the smarts to think ahead this way in maintaining the illusion of a caring actor.
I didnt vote greater bc he does lack a lot of control. Hed groping men and putting the moves on them despite the fact they dont even know him and are not involved with him. He lacks the insight of his behaviour having consequences or feels invincible which either way lack the intelligence of a greater narcissist. His sense of entitlement is unbridled and left to do as it will with a small degree of caution to not get caught.
I think the trend of victims coming forward since the Bill Cosby outing celebs are going to put a bit more thought before being so brazen and reckless or at least the smart ones will. They will know it could harm their career or will it? I do have to wonder bc society accepts more and more outlandish behaviour and anything seems to go. More validation to the narcissists out there that its ok bc society will just see it as “who they are”. It becomes the new norm. First it was Elvis hip swing which looking back was laughable and harmless. Then it was prince doing the dirty move during his movie. Next was Micheal Jackson grabbing his own crotch which people gasped at!! Trump then sets the new standard for grabbing a womans crotch bc when youre wealthy you can do anything. And now we have Spacey grabbing mens crotches as his designated ownership. No longer is it twerking the new in thing is grabbing crotch and…society seems to accept it. What will be accepted tomo?
Society is just as much to blame for not only accepting narcissistic behaviours but rewarding it! They get a quick slap on the wrist but the majority are poking fun at it and look at it as a new trend. Meanwhile there are so many out there being bullied behind the scenes and out and out sexually abused. So much of it flies under the radar and until that person actually attacks you is it then called out on or taken somewhat seriously.
In the town i lived in for 7 yrs we had a doctor from south africa who was the only one within an hour radius. Every time id go in to see him he would do inappropriate things like rub my hands and say how soft they were or ask me personal questions that had zero to do with why id gone in. It creeped me out but it was so under the radar i couldnt report him bc he didnt let it go further. A lot of this goes on unreported but is still an infringement on peoples boundaries and rights. I eventually was forced to drive an hour away to see a doctor which was very inconvenient especially in the winter months. Its wrong.
With celebs its more accepted and this is why they get away with it and they know it! Its good to see more and more victims come forward to report these narcs but will anything really be done to stop it?
I find the way he says about rapps allegation that if it happened he doesnt remember extremely pompous and makes him look repulsive. Who doesnt remember raping someone!?? Unbelievable! I do think Spacey is a sex addict as well. Narcs come in every ethnic group, social class and sexuality. Hes gay and happens to be a narcissist with sex addictions. His sense of entitlement is sky high and he thinks he owns whoever he wants at the time. Just some more bad behaviour to sensationalize and create as the new norm.
narc affair, I think Kevin Spacey is a fuel addict and I posit that he is a somatic. His sexual antics and fluidity are excellent indicators of that cadre.
In the politics in uk something interesting is happening as previous defence secretary is resigning (correct me HG if I am wrong) over an incident which was something and nothing and not even complained about. However the resignation is because I think there are more complaints coming against him and probably more serious,It seems like there is a surge of zero tolerance emerging towards any sort of sexual harasssment which I think is a good thing. People need to stick together and call this stuff out.
Upper Greater. It does not surprise me at all that he is gay. A lot of narcissist are bisexual, trisexual, or gay. Many victums of sexaul abuse turn out to be gay. I feel very sorry for this man. No one deserves the abused he had to endure.
It is true that sexual fluidity is a character trait of some of those labeled as narcissist and other personality disorders. IMO orientation is fluid for many, including myself.
However, Spacey used his sexual orientation as a distraction and a pity play for his sexual crime, which is disgraceful and has nothing to do with being gay but being a criminal.
He just gave more fuel for the fire of myths about being gay. The LGBTQQ community said rightfully “he cannot hide under the rainbow”. Amen, he’s a criminal, no matter what his sexual orientation.
Just to help busy some myths, sexual orientation is believed to be biologically driven and less related to environmental factors. This is my view tho I know some may disagree.
Welcome back indy!! Youve been missed 🙂
Hi Indy!
Nice to see you are back!! 🙂
Indy!!! You’re back!!
Great to see you Indy! Missed your insight!
Hi HG, Narc Affair, EB, Doc, Abrokenwing, K and the blog community here,
Thank you for the warm welcome back, missed you all too.
🌸
Scientific evidence (brain scans, etc.) support the biological theory. It is also a fact that environmental factors can alter/affect our brain development as well. Which makes me curious as to what similarities would be found. I didn’t know that sexual fluidity was a common trait amongst personality disorders. Interesting.
Thank you Sophia!
Yes, you are exactly right. Like many things in the world, most are a combination of biological and environmental. And yes, there is evidence for a biological root to sexual orientation and I also believe gender identity (though I have not seen the research on this recently). And yes, traumatic events can impact the expression of these biologic factors. It is also potentially the argument that the majority of individuals with some sort of diagnosed PD had experienced childhood trauma. So….it would be an interesting thing to study, sexual fluidity, biology & the early trauma factors all together.
I was also wondering what a trisexual was. Lol
Doc, Anne Boleyn now? Lol. Avoid the Tudor if you want to keep your head and the rest of your body in one piece.
Lou,
You’re too funny lol. I’m not concerned. I intend on writing my own ending. This Anne Boleyn isn’t going to go out that way because it’s my story and I say so lmao 😂🤡😎.
I was sometimes wondering if my ex husband may be gay or bisexual …and it’s not only because of the way he excessively looked after his body and his appearance and used my beauty/skincare products even tho he had plenty of his own .(His penis is probably lines free and full of youth glow thanks to my moisturisers😉) When I wanted to make him really angry I would say ‘I’m still waiting for your ‘coming out’.It always worked. I have never found proof though.
Trisexual?
This reminds me of that silly ‘film’ from the 80s where Weird Al is a talk show host and poses, ‘Sex with furniture. What do you think, audience?’
UHF it is called. I have seen most every bad film from the 80s. Though this is kinda funny, I must admit.
Haha I missed the trisexual word! There is a great joke about that word I heard somewhere: Trisexual = try anything sexual. Being pan sexual myself, we get labeled being try-sexual all the time, I couldn’t resist! I still giggle at the thought.
Just as a disclaimer for those that don’t know me, only consenting adult humans for me.
Just in case anyone has questions about the alphabet soup: LGBTQQ refers to lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer and questioning. Us Pans get thrown in under several letters lol.
Is there a difference between gay and queer or is “queer and questioning” the category?
Good question, HG.
This is quoted from an LGBT organization: “Queer: an umbrella term used to encompass all those of the GLBTQQ community. It used to be a negative term but was reclaimed by the community. Now it can be used as something positive. Questioning: this term is used for someone who isn’t sure of their sexual orientation or how to label themselves.”
To add to the long alphabet there are actually more letters than this. Here is another one: LGBTQIA. The I is intersexed and A is asexual.
Yes, sexual orientation and gender expression are separate and take half the alphabet!
Thanks for clarifying.
Hello Indy
Always learn something new from you!!
Missed your insightful comments
Aw thanks Twilight 🤗 it’s definitely nice to see you and all the warm vibes here❤️
Indy
I never heard of the extra Q. Thought that must be me since I’ve always thought I probably fell in there somewhere, but now that you explained about the other new letters, I’m just confused. Maybe there should be a C?
Was thinking mid range…. not greater bec of the sexual harassment and the crying, aren’t those behaviours of a lesser?
Leolita
Based on my experience, my mid-rangers cried A LOT and lessers rarely cry; they are aggressive, hostile and violent. Sexual harassment was rife throughout both my lessers and mid-ranges, and I posit that it is possible for the greater to sexually harass, as well, because it is about fuel and control. A greater crying? Probably not, however, all schools of narcissists do use the pity play.
K
i saw a Greater tear up
He sat across from me, we were talking about acting.
He showed me exactly what he could do if it deemed necessary for his cause.
My response was good thing you are not a lier cause your a damn good actor….
He smiled at me and said yes it is a good thing i am not an actor
Such were our discussions
He always told me the truth in his way
Twilight
If my memory is correct, I believe that HG squeezed out an ersatz tear for one of the Good Doctors. I have no experience with Greaters to draw on, but it seems that narcissists will do anything for fuel.
You are correct.
Ever the chthonian thespian is the narcissist.
K
I remember the article, I thought of this moment with my ex and how he explained things.
K and Twilight,
They turn on The Waterworks 🙂
E.B. & Twilight
Some of my mid-rangers cried more than I did and I am the empath. What a bunch of pity-party-cry-babies.
Voted for Upper Greater
Based on Spacey being a high calibre of narcissist who is intentional and calculating, he know what he is. His status and position of power to target individuals and ability to manufacture acts to portray care and compassion. He is very connected and will have a large fuel matrix. Ability to keep the ignited fury under control and preferred use of bribery and charm. Level of malice.
The word “if” spoils any apology for me. By being “beyond horrified” he completely dissociates from it. The meta message is also that it was so long ago, why would you be bothered? He is losing his hotness rapidly.
“If” and “but” are the worst. You’re right…his hotness whether intelligent, funny or a good actor is disappearing.
HG
Would love to hear your thoughts on the Menendez family.
Sounds like a familiar story !
OS N springs to mind ……. again !
I haven’t followed the story but I’d be very interested in those coming forward who have been taken in by his attempts to seduce them.
I loved that movie where one didn’t know in the end anymore if he wasn’t really from another planet. Very fitting.
I wonder how many people would (or had in this case) put his behaviour down to just being passes or overtures from a gay man at a time when people were not as open about their sexuality, and not relating it to Narcissism at all. As previously discussed, these behaviours are usually labelled or explained away as something other than. I wouldnt be surprised if pushed further, that he (or others to follow) adopt the stance that he was not an entitled manipulator but a victim in this regard-didnt want to come out and have it affect his career.
I think there is a significant chance that will be the route adopted.
That is probably exactly what he would like to happen NA. Hopefully the victim stance is disregarded due to the fact that at least some of his actual victims were children.
NarcAngel, great point. I can see that. Using his childhood as the reason he abused…. No doubt he’ll try it, as will many others. BUT, do you think anyone will buy it? I mean, we were all abused in some way as children. We ended up here after all…. I suffered plenty of abuse as a child by Mom, Dad, Sister, Brother…. ick…. I came out Empath. So I for one will not believe the excuse.
Question: To you and HG, and everyone, do you think other Narcs will believe the story? (That Spacey is the victim) Support the story in protection of one of their own? Or know their own truth and know it’s bullshit?
Thanks!
They will regard it in the manner which suits their purposes.
I think other narcs know the difference between a victim narc and a normal victim narc.
….and how many victims of Spacey’s didn’t report his abuse not only because of Spacey’s powerful position in film industry but reporting it would also potentially out the victim’s sexual orientation and put the victim in a double vulnerable position. Then add on their youth and the ease of being intimidated. His targets were far less likely to talk due to this. Infuriating.
Very well written analysis on Spacey, HG.
Thank you Indy. Good to “see” you.
Indy
You are back! Good to see you.
Indy
Yaaaay!!!!! Missed you! Hope you’ve been well and getting on with your life.
Hi indy!
I’ve missed u dearly.
Hi Jenna,
I have missed you as well! I hope you are hanging in there and holding strong! I remember our DBT chats 🙂
Indy
Indy and yolo,
I placed myself on the dbt waiting list closest to me (abt 20 miles away). I finally got a call after a couple of months. I went ahead and made an appointment. Unfortunately, i had to postpone it because i was down w a cold and fever for abt a week. Then the dbt specialist postponed it just yesterday, else my appt. was supposed to be today. I was looking fwd to it since u and yolo have given it high ratings. Now, the dbt specialist says if i can’t do it next monday (which i can’t), it will have to be in december since she’s going out of town. ☹️
Hi Jenna,
DBT (when done well) is a great type of therapy that teaches skills on how to understand your feelings, regulate emotions, how to self soothe when in a crisis, and help with interpersonal relationships and communicating your needs and wants. A part of this is practicing mindfulness skills as well. It is worth the hard work and the wait. If you would like to learn ahead of time about DBT, there are some great online resources too.
Just as a heads up, DBT is also not easy to do, even though the skills are simple when you read them in written form. One never is perfect at DBT (remind yourself this as you do it), it is always a work in progress, for clients and therapists both. This is why it is called a “practice” and not a “perfect” ;). Are you going to be in a group or one on one therapy or both? DBT is usually done with both components, though sometimes that is hard to get.
Also, just note. Some DBT therapists can be tough cookies. We have a reputation of being tough with a soft center. We push our clients to do their best, which some many think is a bit tough and feel cold at times. However, it is often balanced by also being highly validating of what you are going through. DBT is about balancing those two factors: Need for change of certain behaviors balanced with the acceptance of who you are as a person.
Good luck! I know it is hard to wait, though I found the skills very helpful for myself and rewarding seeing the progress in my clients!
Indy,
It will be one on one dbt therapy. Thx for the information. I have not had a tough therapist yet, so it will be a new experience for me. I predict i will not mind it, because as u stated, they have a ‘soft center’ and i assume they will not be harsh. I wish u were my dbt therapist! Ur clients r lucky to have u! 💗
Spacey’s older brother in the context of the abuse they suffered from their father said:
‘There was so much darkness in our home it was beyond belief. It was absolutely miserable.’
‘Kevin tried to avoid what was going on by wrapping himself in an emotional bubble. He became very sly and smart.
‘He was so determined to try to avoid the whippings that he just minded his Ps and Qs until there was nothing inside. He had no feelings.’
With regards to what type of narcissist he is …
Might be wrong but I think false contrition is common with mid rangers …( that’s what my ex showed when i entered sphere one) but the Greater will also combine charm with false contrition when nothing else would work..
His control over the ignited fury, keeping it under the surface , calculating and evaluating would also suggest the Greater.
If there is a link between who he is and characters he played as suggested in the last paragraph then he is the Greater.
My guess is …Lower Greater.
Thanks for your thoughts ABW.
This is one of the single places I feel for narcs. Where they’ve been forced to rob themselves of their own emotions. Where they died inside.
I concur. I repeatedly read the article ‘Sins of the Empath’ to switch me out of this state.
“The reality is that it suits the purposes of certain people for this to be happening.”
My two guesses, civil war within the deep state or desensitizing the masses to normalize pedophilia.
HG I find it very interesting in reading an article that Kevin Spaceys brother said both boys were sexually abused by their Father, and that he also brutalized the whole family. They ended up calling him, wait for it! The Creature! This is very chilling! Xxx
I’ve loved Kevin Spacey since The Usual Suspects came out. Figures. I was (am) so attracted to his intelligence. Intelligence and humor hook me every single time. Doesn’t really matter if they’re attractive physically unless they’re truly disgusting, need a bath or have chronic halitosis.
Of course I was (am) attracted to a narcissistic pedophile. Makes perfect sense.
E.B but he is SO good at acting, I have looked back at some old interviews and he is utterly flawless. No wonder us sensitive emotional types are drawn to him as he totally presents as the king of cool. If you look back at his interviews you might be surprised what you can see now. Thanks HG for the Jim Carey information, I always thought he was bipolar but the way he treated his Irish girlfriend/wife was very transparent.
Middle Greater… though I was going to choose upper mid Ranger because of that pity play crying.
He seems cunning calculating and controlled. Hence Greater.
To be fair…Lower Greater maybe closer the mark…Greaters arnt that common either…not in comparison to other types.
If he had been only hitting on men in his twenties when wasted, I would just say he just had narcissistic traits.
The fact that he was doing this in the 90’s and probably 00’s shows he is a narcissist as they seem to get more extreme as they age, this is also how you can tell The Donald is one too.
Donald and his creepy coterie make me sick….
His behaviors, statements, and conduct is textbook narcissism. H.G. prepared us for him. The lies, deflecting, blameshifting, rewrite history, gaslighting, word salad, entitlement, triangulation, no morals, and no accountability. America belongs to him, the wall is him.
He’s a upper lesser.
Excellent and and amazingly comprehensive!
Thank you.
“I honestly do not remember… if I did behave as he describes, I owe him the sincerest apology.”
I have heard those two sentences before. First they play dumb and say they cannot remember, second they use the conditional “If” to denote that they do not consider having done anything wrong, and last they give a false apology because they are not sorry at all. This is a form of gaslighting. The narcissist is telling his target: it never happened, I did not do anything wrong and if you want me to apologize, I will do to end this discussion once and for all.
Spacey is in control, he does not display heated fury and does not use the ST. He knows how to deflect and uses charm. He targets people from a lower socio-economic group so he can bribe them (e.g. with expensive presents) if they try to speak up. Maybe he has never heard of the term narcissism or he does not know that he is one, but he seems to know what he has done and now he is using this opportunity to make it all about himself and to show the world his ‘superiority’.
I think he is a Greater but I am not sure about the division. I voted MGN.
Dustin Hoffman: “I have the utmost respect for women and feel terrible that ***anything I might have done*** could have put her in an uncomfortable situation. I am sorry. It is not reflective of who I am.”
His statement reflects who he is.
E.B. YES!!!! “…. I owe him the sincerest apology.” And the apology never comes, does it? I noticed that alot! Narcs saying… I owe you an apology. Well,,, go on…. apologize. Mentioning you owe one, doesn’t make one.
Am I right?
Yes, Peaceful. Some narcissists say they will apologize but they never do it. And there are also those who do apologize but you can tell they are not being sincere and that they do not feel sorry at all.
Brilliant and relevant article HG! I love trying to place the school of the Narcissist, although I do struggle with it. More please!
Thank you.
That brings me fo a question I’ve been wondering:
Dearest HG, while I see the utility in your expertise on empaths, why/how become the expert on the other schools of narcissist brethren?
*loving Fuel btw… omg the ranking of fuel… wow….
Because I utilise them also.
Yeah, Kevin Spacey has played his “good guy” public role for many years very conveniently.
My guess he is a Middle-Greater.
His family story is no less interesting. His father was a Psychopath, Sadist, Rapist, and a member of Nazi party. He tortured his wife, daughter, and two sons for years.
The Spacey’s older brother Randall has always protected his little brother from their abusive father and cruel world, and he is doing exactly that right now, telling to journalists about their dark family history, trying to justify Kevin’s “bad behavior” and “deviations”. I don’t exclude, that Kevin instructed him to do that.
Excellent article. Thank you, Tudor.
You are welcome and thank you for the expansion on the family history.
My ex, who is still in the closet, loved House of Cards. I liked the first two seasons as well but eventually couldn’t watch it anymore. It was just too evil. There was a plot element (which seemed to me totally gratuitous) where Kevin Spacey’s character has sex with a man at a college reunion. I didn’t know my husband was gay at the time but now I believe that he is just as Machiavellian as Frank Underwood.
What screams narcissist to me is when he said it must have been the result of him being drunk if he doesn’t remember how does he know he was drunk and being drunk is no excuse. But the main thing is he said something about being sorry for the feelings the victim described having. He can’t imagine what those feelings could be himself because he’s a narc
HG
Ha! I knew you were going to do a post about Spacey! Awesome, I suspect he is an LGN, but I want to read more before I make my final decision.
This one is difficult for me because I have no experience with the Greater narcissist to draw on. However, after reading several articles I still think he is a LGN. He is on the UMRN/LGN line and exhibits traits from both schools: no heated fury or flouncing off with an ST, he maintains superiority with charm, wit, intelligence, talent, and he uses bribery. There is a bit of feel-sorry-for-me style in that pity play he used with “John”. He appears charitable and kind which is seen in both the greater and mid-range. I didn’t see the malice or planning that an upper greater might employ where every battle is won before it is fought. Maybe I need to find a greater so I can add to my personal narc experience. Well done, HG. Thank you. I learn more each time with these posts.
I would have guessed something of the Greater category but then the crying and whining part made me lower my vote to Upper Mid Range.
I have to admit, however, it’s very difficult for me to guess whether or not someone is a Greater, as qualifying as one is something that takes self-awareness. And unless they are just actively verbal or writing about it (as HG is) how can any of us really guess what someone else’s level of self-awareness is?
Though if I had to guess someone as an Upper Greater, I’d have to choose Bill Clinton.
Hollywood sounds like hell to me. No thanks.
Bibi
I may be totally off base, but it always seems to me that if they are greaters, they’re way better at concealing their narcissism from the public. Anyone who presents to the public as a victim, just doesn’t seem like he has what it takes to be a greater.
I definitely agree with you about Bill Clinton.
I think, if the tears suit perfectly to a Narcs’ goal, they would cry and they would do it very conveniently. Greater, Mid, Lesser, doesn’t matter. It is a question of survival and self-protection for them.
If Kevin would cry more extensively on public (supported by his really awful childhood story), we all would end up crying with him soon, telling to each other “Poor Kevin! Poor little boy! It wasn’t his fault!”.
The “Victim Card” is a very powerful weapon. Never underestimate it.
Oh… don’t break my heart about Bill. I thought he was the best president of my generation…. and I like Hillary too. Even if he is a narc…
Peaceful
Never! I also think he was the best president in my lifetime. I think very highly of him and Hillary also, although she doesn’t have his political sense. That has nothing to do with him being a narcissist. I believe that often the best, most effective presidents are narcs. I’d much rather have an intelligent, politically savvy narc in office than a dumb person who really cares about others.
There are many times being a greater narcissist can make a person more effective, more focused and a better choice for many jobs. Just because they would make a crappy husband and abusive lover doesn’t mean that they do everything poorly or have no benefit to society. Actually caring about people is often not necessary to help them. From the very famous like Clinton to the very obscure like small-time prosecutors and doctors, greater narcs can do a lot of good for a very many people.
of course he is N.
what do you think about ex president of Catalonia in Spain..Carle Puigdemont?
May be you heard about.. he made fake politic to be Catalonia Republic and Spanish Goverment stop it.
I see all about and he look like N ..may be me dium
Now he is in Belgium looking for ?? more drama??
I am interesting what do you think about
I do not know enough about him to make an accurate observation although most politicians and leaders are of our kind and if not they are narcissistic.
gracias
Though not a politician, but the latest guru of enlightenment, Jim Carrey makes me suspicious…any thoughts?
One of us.
What about Sir Michael Fallon HG? Xxx🌺🌺🌺
Well, I know what has been happening (and more besides). He is one of us.
I thought as much! Thank you. I know better then to ask what you know! I’ve been with you to long! Lol. Xxx🌺🌺🌺
H.G.
Why would the Clintons pay some to out Harvey Weinstein when him and others from Hollywood were some of their largest contributors? When it was revealed she donated the money he gave to charity. I am sure this is only the tip of the iceberg.
BTW, I think Spacey is a MMR.
There is no loyalty amongst out kind. If there is an advantage to be seized we will thrown anybody under the bus (figuratively or literally).
I have read articles suggesting that his socialist father who allegedly was a satanist abused Kevin and raped Kavin’s brother. This abuse started in his younger years, developed and continued in his adulthood.
That would explain certain things Sniglet, thanks for adding that.
It is and was an unfortunate situation for all of the victims to experience this sexual abuse. However, there is something more interesting happening in Hollywood behind the scenes (pun intended) that powerful wealthy white men are being targeted. I’m not advocating for these men, but I would like to know who is doing it (not referring to the victims, possible other puppeteers) and why now.
You are correct about the puppeteering. Much of what is now receiving greater prominence has happened for decades and was kept either hidden or was known about within certain circles but no further. You may ask what is the catalyst now? Some would suggest a change in values and attitudes – that is the hoped for response – the reality is that it suits the purposes of certain people for this to be happening.
Yeah… according to the current tendency in Hollywood, it seems you are going to have a lot of work, Tudor!
That’s very good for many reasons.
It would increase the Narc-Abuse-Awarenes in society and it is a unique chance (a gift of fate I would dare say!) to you to popularize your no less unique works! Take a chance and bon voyage!
Sniglet, I’ve noticed the same. Probably a hater of Hillary and I’ll tell you why – Bill Clinton is a nasty pedophile – I can’t remember the guy’s name, but he would fly with this other pedophile to the guys private island to rape underage girls.
HG, who are those “certain people” in your opinion?
Hi what just happened – are you referring to Jeffrey Epstein and his private jet and private Caribbean island where he entertained many including Clinton, Prince Andrew and even Stephen Hawking?
Satanism does seem closely connected to hollywood, ie Anton Lavey in the seventies had all the celebs as friends.
Hi Brian, I have read something similar about LaVay and the depravity of Hollywood.
Sniglet
I get the feeling that the movie ‘society’ has a bit more truth in it than we’d like to think.
Of course a man I was always attracted to! Of course he is a narcissist! But yet there was something that always seemed off. I would people it was if he was really being himself and not acting. Of course I never knew what I was talking about! Smh. This was brought more to love get when I watched his movie, Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil. Know one could convince me that was not the real Kevin Spacey. So HG he would be a greater then? This is something that I always seem to struggle with. Also somatic? Btw kind sir this post is awesome!! I can’t wait for the other comments to come rolling in. Thank you once again for all of your brilliance!! ⛽️ xxx
Ahh Fool Me, I’m glad to find I’m not alone I liked him too – Midnight in the Garden… is one of my favorite movies…
HG, I am horrified.. I have been reading about the manipulation, but without this post, I wasn’t getting it. When I saw his issued statement, I failed to spot the “let’s make this all about me”..
I obviously need to become a better student..
Back to reading…
🔋🔋📚🎆
Nuit Étoilée
Love your name!
Why, thank you Windstorm – I find you have quite the whirlwind effect yourself 😉
It was and still is one of my favorite movies. The attraction for me was of a different type and I’m not quite sure how to explain it? I am still going over this in my head trying to figure out why I am drawn to people who have been sexually abused?! As was my ex. Btw, you do have a beautiful name.😊
Thank you, Fool Me, I am happy my name appeals – I am a fan of your posts, so it is lovely to find we have more in common.
Can you guess the reference (for my name)?
I enjoyed the complex nature of the film (I didn’t care for American Beauty though).. I am disappointed to learn this about Spacey.. all my loves seem to have had a difficult upbringing…
I would add I felt they needed to be loved.. but I was able to put a limit to my tolerance.. they always seemed surprised when I would decide I’d had enough and disappear…
The only thing I picked up from your name was night and star I believe? Their is not many things much more beautiful then a night sky full of stars. Although if I remember correctly Star could also be a reference to a road or being on the correct path? Omg! I don’t know! Lol. See how my mind goes on and on! But I do know you are right in that we both do have things in common. 🤗
Sorry Fool Me! I wasn’t trying to throw a curve ball – just curious – probably a big problem for my involvement with narcs…
My name translates as Starry Night – I agree a night sky full of stars is beautiful… many interpretations, I like that 😉 🎇
Fool me 1 time, yes he is v attractive an ESTP (also interpreted as a somatic narcissist) is a magnet for an infj like me and possibly you and others on here, idealistic (love devotee you might say HG) vs somatic means chemistry. I will now Judge my ability to avoid being attracted to Narcs by reality checking whether or not I still find him sexy. I totally fell In love with him in American beauty and his interview on the actors studio and want to watch it again for the sake of curiosity. HG what do you think about Alec Baldwin? It has been suggested he too is a Narcissist…..
Mrs. Linton, Alec is a Narc, I am not sure which kind, but definitely a Narc.
Alec Baldwin in my opinion is definitely a mid ranger or maybe upper lesser. He is way too stupid to be anything more.
INFJ, they claim the personality type is rare. It would be interesting to see how many are on here. 😊
Yolo
Probably a lot of us are INFJ. I am and I think it was Twilight that had me take the test, but I’m not sure.
Windstorm2
No it wasn’t me
Thanks, Twilight. It was Mrs Linton. You explained some about energy sensitivity to me.
Hi Windstorm,
I’m a little weird in that I come up as an INFP. Kinda goes with my tendency to default to cold logic that I sometimes will go to when in debate about things I believe in. I sometimes am surprised when I shift perspective from my previous strongly held beliefs, though it takes a good solid debate to do so. Recently experienced this subtle shift.
I hope you are well, thank you for the kind welcome back. Yes, living life and healing continues.
😊
Indy
Shifting perspective from previously strongly held beliefs is what I call “open-minded” And Is a characteristic I highly value in myself and others.
Glad your back! I have often missed you, but consoled myself with some of your last comments about being in a good place mentally and being busy with life. Excited though to see your future comments. You are always a voice of thoughtful, compassionate wisdom. 🌺
Hi Windstorm,
It’s so nice chatting with you again too. Your evenheaded wisdom and deep compassion is beautiful and has been missed on my end too.
I agree, an open and sharp mind is hard to beat. It makes deep debates rewarding and not a battle but a journey of the mind that no one has to win or loose. Both win in the end.
Indy INFPs are really heartfelt you are thinking INTP!
Hi Mrs Linton,
Interestingly, I took the test back in grad school and again recently and it gave me the INFP both times though it sounds like my F should be a T 😃
Windstorm2, can you please tell me what INFJ is? And what is the test you speak about?
Thanks!
Peaceful
Peaceful
I’m on a long road trip and don’t remember it all and would have to look it up. I asked Mrs Linton to explain it to u. She’s the one who told me. 😊
Hello WIndstorm, I remember suggesting it to someone on here who said that they became reclusive and exhausted from giving. That might have been you? The human metrics website is free and helpful. All infj types can be a victim of their own empathy and it can be a curse. Saying that I have known a number of types that end up with narcissists intj infp istj isfps examples. I do think some of the more traditional typologies (I am thinking of my ISFJ sister) choose to stay. She has such extreme family values she is bound to everyone in the family and would never go no contact.
Mrs Linton
Ha, ha! Your sister sounds a lot like me! Some family (aunts/uncles and cousins) I can walk away from, but never closer family. I figure God put me in their family for a reason. I could never unfamily anyone. That’s probably the main reason my relationship with my exhusband has always been so unusual. After living with him for 30 years, he was family, so I was stuck with him. 😝. The divorce was for legal issues, money and property.
Maybe it was you who suggested it, sounds somewhat familiar now that I think on it.
I think I guessed you were infj though? I think you said you were… I think there have been other people keen on it here I love to guess what people are it’s a bit of a party piece!
Mrs Linton
Peaceful is asking me for that webtest and an explanation of INFJ. Could you explain it to her please? Her comment to me is in this thread. I’m driving home from Kansas and would have to look it all up again. Thank you!
Hi All
Yes – just google humanmetrics and it will come up with the website. It’s a copy of Myers Briggs or MBTI questionnaire except it’s free All will become clear when you have done it. Peaceful I think you might be infp just a wild guess. Would love to know if that’s right. When you’ve done it just google your type. Knowledge is power! PS you can get to know how your Narc ticks too…
Mrs. Linton,
You’re an infj??!! I’m an enfj 😁…
I’m such a nerd I actually own an ENFJ sweatshirt lol! 🤓
16personalities.com is a free MBTI analysis. INFP here. 😃 I’ve often wondered how many infp and infj’s are here.
If I remember right, HG is an ESTP. My ex MMRN is an INTJ. I’ve struggled to accept he’s a narc because of his type. I have wondered if anyone else has had this same issue.
I don’t think HG is ESTP not somatic enough, he is detailed ordered meticulous ISTJ
Hello Peaceful,
INFJ is one of the 16 personality types according to the Myers-Briggs type indicator (MBTI).
It stands for Introvert, iNtuiton, Feeling, Judging.
(I)ntrovert vs (E)xtrovert
(S)ensing vs i(N)tuiton
(F)eeling vs (T)hinking
(J)udging vs (P)erceiving
E.B. Thank you so much! I looked into the Briggs thing. I took the personality test. I came out ENFJ. A Protagonist…. hmmmm… interesting…. Many thanks for opening up something new for me 🙂
Hi Peaceful,
Are you a PM or a President?? 🙂
Sophia mentioned 16personalities.com. Besides those 16 different types, they test Identity: Assertive (self-assured, resistant to stress) vs. Turbulent (sensitive to stress, worries too much). When I took the test on that site, I got ISFJ-T. I get different results depending on the test.
Are you an Assertive or a Turbulent type? 🙂
E. B. I don’t remember 🙁
I didn’t write it down. I’m going to do it again I’ll let you know.
ENFJ Everyone needs fulfilment and joy!
HG, that was such an interesting article! By reading that, I’m learning from you how to decipher words. Groupings of words, direction of words, and the meaning there of. I heard Spacey make that 2 paragraph comment, and did not glean from it what you pointed out.
Here’s something… My ex husband narc #1 works on a very popular weekend show. Spacey was the host that week ( this was years ago). And Nex told me Spacey was gay and hit on him. hmmmm…. was Nex just pointing something out and relaying information? Or was that a ploy to make me jealous?
Also, do you think Nex and Spacey could recognize each other as narcs?
Thanks,
Peaceful.
Nex was triangulating.
I doubt Nex would recognise Spacey as a narcissist. I am not saying with regard to Spacey one way or the other as it will queer the poll.
“queer the poll.”
lol
Did you see what I did there?!
“Queer the pole”
You are a punny one. Loved reading your ANALysis on this situation haha. I did laugh when Spacey made his careful and deflective statement, (made transparent by your excellent tutelage here). In other news: Dustin Hoffman has allegedly apologized for an incident years ago by saying that if he made her uncomfortable, it is not “reflective” of who he is. That got a laugh from me also.
Poll! Poll! I meant Poll lol. Freudian slip.
Very good 🙂
You are quite the humorous one!
The mid rangers would not recognise one another. The Greater would.
Or was he “telling” you he’s gay also? My Nex had a very sharp gay-dar, and I absolutely believe he is bi, if not a completely closeted gay man
Never heard of him, but I certainly would not argue with your assessment. I think that so many famous people and people in power are narcs, that even though people may not know the term, they have come to expect and accept narcissistic behaviors from celebrities.
Windstorm,
Have you heard of House of Cards? Kevin Spacey is Frank Underwood.
EB
I’ve heard of it. Never watched it. I did watch the original back in the ’90’s. Very narcissistic role.
Sickens me! One marriage, one 3 year relationship. Both narcissists. Thanks to all your FB posts I now know what that word truly means!