Poll- Which Of These Forms Of Manipulation Have Been Used Most Often Against You?


You will have experienced many different types of manipulation having been ensnared by a narcissist or more than one. You may not have realised what the manipulation was at the time and only worked it out after the event.

Was there a particular manipulation that was used against you more than the others? Perhaps one narcissist used it a lot or it has become a common theme used by the various narcissists you have entangled with? Did the narcissist use sex to manipulate you, through withdrawing it or making you do sexual acts you were not comfortable with or maybe sex was given as a reward if you were compliant? Were you the recipient of lots of Present Silent Treatments through sulking and cold shoulders? Maybe you found that the narcissist used contradiction a lot through saying one thing and doing another? It  might have been that you were subjected to word salads as you fought to understand what on earth was going on.

Whichever was the manipulation that was used the most against you, choose one from the list and do please expand on how this affected you and why you think this one was used against you more than others.

Thank you for participating.

Which of these forms of manipulation have been used against you the most often?

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356 thoughts on “Poll- Which Of These Forms Of Manipulation Have Been Used Most Often Against You?

  1. Lorna says:

    I have to say every single one on that list was used by my ex narc, he is a truly evil man

  2. Tappan Zee says:

    “You are a fling” he said, “regardless of how YOU view ME…I am nothing more than a fling”.

    ^On occasion they tell the truth. HG could find the hyperlink. He says (parroting him not speaking FOR him:) they do this for such as, later being able to say “Well I told you xyz…..” so it’s yet another form of their master plan and uber charm. Read: manipulation. They wave red flags. We excuse and deny the red flags. Then we get pissed the red flags were real. Then (best part) they inform us: I SAID THE RED FLAGS. Which is true. They did. So WE allowed OUR emotional thinking to con us. Ugg….

    1. gabbanzobean says:

      Tappan Zee….
      Then why originally say the opposite? I mean…what is it? Fling or not? Or is it just both? Like what is the meaning of life? The answer is….42?
      Ignore my obscure movie references. My head hurts again.

      1. ANK says:


        It is neither. They are words just to manipulate you, to keep you dangling and confuse you so that he has you right where he wants you.

        What is it that you hope for from him? He will never leave his wife. His marriage provides him with the cloak of respectability while he trawls sites for other women.

        If by some miniscule chance you ended up with him you know he is not trustworthy. There are and would still be other women. Could you live with that?

        The fact that he wants you makes you feel attractive desirable etc. But you don’t need validation from him. Believe in your worth. You deserve so much better.

        I know your emotional thinking is dominant at the moment but please try to think about all the reasons why you he is no good for you.
        That’s what I did and still do. I imagine how crazy I would end up wondering who he was texting, who he was with. He would be lying all the time. I couldn’t live like that.

        It would be the same for you.

      2. Windstorm2 says:

        I think you hit on the meaning behind everything he says – 42. That says it all. All you need to know. Whenever you’re wondering what something he said or did means, just think “42.” Honest to God it makes as much sense as anything you’ll be able to deconstruct from his lies. 42. Thanks for reminding me of that!

        1. gabbanzobean says:

          It was meant as a weird obscure movie reference and a joke but you’re welcome. LOL.

          1. Windstorm2 says:

            Never saw the movie, but loved all the books!

      3. NarcAngel says:


        They say what they like when they like and most of it has no meaning. The only meaning is whatever you attach to their words, and they count on that while laughing at your perceived gullibility, which allows them to keep you in the game. Everyone is but a pawn in their game and the game is neverending. Only you can jump the board.

      4. Tappan Zee says:

        GBZ—plausible deniability. when they react to your hysteria of why why why was i just a fling you lying sack of shit, he can in turn haughtily reply to YOUR shit storm. from his elevated (even more so thanks to your “hysteria”) by saying with all the coke black heart in the world: i told you that you were a fling from the get-go. (read: your fault) of course it only needs to be said (embedded) once because that is all that is needed for the PD to be activated at a later date. it’s filed away to be used in due course. all the rest out shines that, to confuse just exactly the way you are. mired and stuck in it. i feel like a poor substitute for HG. do the consult. you are drowning in that sea. he can offer a life jacket, you still have to put it on and swim to shore.

    2. NarcAngel says:

      Tappan Zee

      Yes they do give you hints and truths. I have had many exposed to me and very early in the interactions. Sometimes they miss yours too though. A few examples from one encounter with a “God”

      His truth:
      “Oh I like you. You are so much more interesting and intelligent than the rest”. (The rest??!! Who the f**k admits to others in the wooing stage lol).
      My truth in response:
      “Yes, and it will be my intelligence that will be your undoing”

      His truth:
      “You dont have enough armour around your heart to prevent me from piercing it and making you putty in my hands”
      My truth (with a laugh):
      “Careful-not all putty molds well. It can be hard to work and messy.”

      Cant say they werent warned either.

      1. gabbanzobean says:

        Narc Angel….they leave truths among the shit they spew? Hmmm. Perhaps I am overthinking this (then again I overthink everything LOL)….but I recall one time when he was silenting me for his usual 2 week stint. When I finally heard back from him I was upfront with how I felt and said…

        “Well it is nice to see you are finally reaching out to me, God forbid I be given the common courtesy of knowing how you are doing”

        Him: “I will communicate with you if and when I choose to. I do not owe you the courtesy of telling you how I am doing. You are not my wife or my girlfriend!”

        I am going to end it here and focus on that last text. You are not my wife or my girlfriend. Well gee I know I am not his wife but this “girlfriend” thing is news to me!

        Overthinking or random truth out of his mouth?

        Wife, girlfriend…(or girlfriendS)…and me. The DLS.

        1. Twilight says:


          Do you have your necklace?

      2. Tappan Zee says:

        N|angel— mine said oh i never wear condoms, don’t like the way they feel.


        we were like idk making lunch in our tiny kitchen. we were partners. i was his IPPS (before i knew wtf that meant) and monogamous. every one stop laughing now. he left his wife to be with me. that happened: divorced and with me (not in that order) and we were going to be married. that never happened nor was it mentioned once he left her. long story short (despite the midnite harangues of what a despicable whore i war and had always been prior ensarement, YES he would keep me up at night to project — if only i knew it at the time!) he was telling ME like a dude in the locke room, he never uses condoms. post escape i had a battery of STD tests done. wish i could have sent him the bill.

        LOGICBOAT under construction!

      3. Gabrielle says:

        Tappan Zee … my narc always told me that he hated condoms too!!! “I like to FEEL everything”…. and “I have to fill you with me”. 🙄

        1. Windstorm2 says:

          I think the Nico dom thing is typical for many of them. Back to that no accountability. Mine would never wear them which made contraception obnoxious since I could not take the pill. But then that was my problem.

      4. Nuit Étoilée says:

        Ahhh NarcAngel, I bet you’ll like this – when i read your exchange about putty I thought – yes, well, C4 is technically putty (the explosive) right? 😉😈

  3. K says:

    When I hear/see the word pussy used in that context, I think of a “scardy cat” or a “yellow-bellied-coward”. I grew up with lessers so I am not offended very often.

  4. Susan says:

    I’m feeling good. I just experienced a lot of blame shifting and it brought clarity. We’re apart now 6 months. I became very very clear in my gut as to what he is with Tudors help. Several different consultations pointed out his toxic logic. B as I call him although he has a girlfriend now wanted me to have a skype therapy with Dr Hawkins. A psychologist who I originally found on line who claims he can cure Narcissist. He believes if they experience rock bottom loss of you they may be motivated to change. He teaches them how to adapt with new learned behaviors. I don’t believe the Narc changes just adapts. I finally agreed to go because B was doing a lot of Blame shifting. Saying things like. It takes two to make a relationship, why is it me that always wears the black hat, you never admit you play a role in our demise. So here we were in front of Hawkins. I went first and told about our last incident 6 months before. How He acted on a vacation for 3 days like Mr Hyde.
    Dr Hawkins turned to B and just said or asked him something and he unleashed his fury on Dr Hawkins. I witnessed him turning into Mr Hyde right before me directed at the doctor. Hawkins tried to back off placate him focus a little on me to make things balanced and B calmed down. Then the blame shifting. What about my contribution. Was that lady incident discussed. No

    With my new clarity I saw it for what it is. No I want no part of all of this. I’m finished with it.

    Thanks HG

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are welcome.

    2. K says:

      I wonder if B is a lesser, based in his inability to control his fury. It looks like B deployed the second line of defence straight away, Distraction and Deflection. Hawkins backed off and placated B by focusing on you, thus, deflecting the question aimed at him re: how he behaved on vacation. My lessers were so defensive, that they reacted with (explosive) heated fury, followed quickly by violence.

  5. Tappan Zee says:

    JUST ONE? That gaslights me.

  6. Sophia says:

    Triangulation right out of the gate. Next was gas lighting. Then came the contradictions, sexual manipulations, projections, blame-shifting, silent treatments, made to feel guilty, circular conversations, and smearing; in that order. I’m not sure if I know enough about word salad to recognize it. 🤔 His favorites are triangulation and silent treatments.

  7. Laura says:

    I’ve been with my Narc for almost 2 years. Living together for a little over a year. Our sex life in the beginning wasn’t anything crazy but it was good healthy sex. About a month after I moved in he went cold turkey on me. When I would make advances he’d go to the spare bedroom and close the door without a word (silent treatment from hell) He later told me he has suffered from impotency in the past and was embarrassed to tell me before now. Lies!! Being me (empath) I felt horrible for him and apologized for trying to instigate. I’m ashamed to say I’ve gone this past year without sex or affection from him. In my eyes he was suffering and I needed to love him unconditionally. To find out he’s been cheating on me the whole time. So long story short, withdrawal of sex, all affection and lots of silent treatment.

    1. Laura says:

      I should add to my post that I’ve researched quite a lot due to circumstances this past year. I was so happy to have stumbled on your posts HG. My Narc uses many manipulation tactics but those are the top 2.

  8. Antifragile says:

    Absent silent treatments and triangulations.

    The silent treatments because they were highly effective on me – I was worried and tried to fix his mood, to understand what happened etc… His soul and mood was a treasure for me. To make even very short silence was a guaranteed method to get a wave of warmth and attention from me.

    The triangulations – now I understand he used a lot, but it had no proper effect on me, I just thought he shares his life experience and wants my advise. He was so young, I haven’t seen me as a partner for him and wanted him to be happy in future, we discussed a lot; I told him my stories too.

  9. Brian says:

    Extreme constant triangulation.
    Then the narc grenades,tirades, veiled threats.

  10. BlueOcean says:

    I really could not choose between just one of them because they were just all used all the time. What a total nightmare.

  11. Flighty says:

    He made me feel guilty.
    Guilty for having morals.
    Guilty for having a sense of self-worth.
    Guilty for missing him and wanting his time.
    Guilty for not missing him and not asking for his time.
    Guilty for feeling jealous (at being triangulated).
    Guilty for not feeling jealous anymore.
    Guilty for making the wrong assumptions (gaslighted).
    Guilty for wanting to write things down because I keep misinterpreting, misremembering, misunderstanding, misjudging him.
    Guilty for not keeping the house clean enough (never any help from him).
    Guilty for asking for his help (he works all day and I have no right to expect his assistance).
    Guilty for asking him where the money went.
    Guilty for feeling lonely.
    Guilty for not seeing to my own needs.
    Guilty for being a burden to him.
    Guilty for assuming I was a burden to him.
    Guilty for asking him where he was.
    Guilty for not asking him where he was.
    Guilty for calling and texting him.
    Guilty for not calling and texting him.

    … basically just guilty for being alive.

    1. K says:

      That is a lot of guilt.

  12. SuperXena says:

    1. Gas lighting: was his most used manipulation technique i.ex. moving things around the house or things that were important to me suddenly disappearing from its usual place and appearing again some time after.I will never forget one of my favourite perfume bottles ( that he gave me as a present) disappeared and appeared several times. I confronted him many times…asking him after some time to move out of my place.

    2. Withdrawal : not precisely of sex but of “nice” caring ,loving behaviours i.ex. calling me to my work place every single day at exactly 11:00 for the first year and then not doing it until I got the message of something I have done or said that was wrong..stopping the punishment and doing it again as a reward when my behaviour was “good” again. Turning from white to black and back again..without me even knowing what I did “wrong”.

    I would like to add one more that I could not find on the different alternatives given:
    3. Intimidation: he had access to weapons due to his profession…reminding me now and then about this and saying “so watch it” …ending this comment with: I am just joking..

    Why he used these techniques the most?
    -gas lighting : I think it was because he saw me as a strong women and he wanted me to doubt of myself and my sanity trying to undermine my strength
    -intimidation: when I started losing respect and admiration for him…he tried to re-establish this respect by the use of fear..
    -withdrawal of loving behaviour: because the punishments and rewards were based on my belief that these manifestations were of true love and I am a love believer

    As I write this and when I look back..It gives me a huge feeling of relief that I left him and that I could leave him behind…

    Sent from my iPad

  13. narc affair says:

    Another great poll!
    I had a few but the one that impacted me the most was sexual manipulations.
    Looking back my vulnerability when i met the narc was a pretty much nonexistant sex life and intimacy in my marriage. I dont say this in a pity play way but in a factual way that opened me up to being ensnared.
    I tried years to fix this area of my marriage and it came to a point where i had what i think was a minor breakdown.
    Hubby and i got into an arguement over the subject after going months without any kind of closeness. It was the worst arguement we had ever had and we both lost it. I had a major fit which ive only ever had 2 other times in my life and he stomped his foot so hard he broke his heel and was on crutches for 2 months. He now has arthritis in that heel 🙁
    The point is it reached a plateau of no return and something inside me switched off. He was at that point dead to me sexually. This was about 9 yrs ago. I never again brought up sex or intimacy with him. We had always been very close and enjoyed each others company but sex and intimacy were always a struggle.
    We tried counselling but it never helped bc that spark was not there. I equate it to trying to change someones sexual orientation …it wont happen bc they are who they are. I questioned if he was gay but he isnt he just has no desire for sex. Back then i didnt know asexual existed. I would classify him as asexual. Its been deeply painful on so many levels my self esteem as a woman, lonliness so intense, jealousy/envy of other couples and sheer confusion. How had my dream partner and soulmate hide something so crucial in a relationship from me? I still am piecing it together in my mind years later as i sort thru narcissistic abuse from my narc and my mother but its slowly coming together the questions ive had. Fast forward 3 years ago my hubby was diagnosed with a chronic disease and had a major surgery that was an awakening. Only after that did he bring up that hed like to try and fix this area of our marriage. He knows im sure that ive been involved elsewhere and it maybe was a last ditch attempt to rectify maybe thru guilt what he failed to share in our relationship. It was too late bc after years of begging and pleading and tears shed that part of me was broken and a door shut. It was over.
    7 years ago i met my narc and he injected what i was missing from my marriage. He unthawed my sexual desire. I felt alive again. It was a rebirth of a part of me that had been dead for so long. In many ways i was a virgin experiencing sex and intimacy for the first time the way it shouldve been in my marriage. This man wanted me and made me feel so beautiful. I felt…whole. We fit together perfectly. That missing piece to my puzzle clicked in place and i felt like a new person, a whole person. It felt exciting and i was happy. It was a thrill to have something i thought id never have…someone who felt the desire i felt for them. It was a dream come true…until the narcissistic games started….
    My narc spent a lot of time and still does listening to me. He listens so very intently and stores what he learns for later use.
    About 4 yrs into the relationship things started to change sexually. It was obvious he was involved elsewhere bc the sex dwindled and our flirtatious manner evaporated. What once was a highly sexually charged relationship was on and off again. Many times i disengaged and told my narc i knew things were different and that we should take a break but each time hed apologize profusely and promise(future fake) that things would be different. He assured me he still felt the same about me but i knew things were different. What really hurt the most was his covert ways to hurt me regarding this. He would send me articles about sexless marriages to trigger a reaction from me. One time he referred to me as mrs roper from threes company. This really hurt my feelings and i told him id never beg a man for sex and that it was over sexually between us. He of course sent me a long letter apologizing for being insensitive and how much he loved me blah blah blah …. future faking blah ..
    He got off on my pain. Pain i shared with him about my marriage. He took something so very private that i confided in him and he took it like a shard of glass and stabbed me with it 🙁 For awhile i wished and believed in him when the cycle would come back to his wanting me again which he still does but that spark was forever gone for me. I no longer felt that attraction and spark the way i had before i learned he was a narcissist and took my vulnerability to ensnare me and hurt me with. I realise its a facade and was never what i first thought it was.
    Over the years weve shared a lot and most has been nonsexual so its been difficult to sever. We still are sexual but i know its not at all what i had wanted so desperately in my marriage and thats genuine intimacy between two spouses who love each other.
    My narc has used sexual manipulation to push and pull me. That has been his main hookand punishment in the relationship.

    1. Catherine says:

      Narc affair,

      once again our stories are similar and you just now gave me valuable insights into my past relationships and their connection to my narcissistic entanglement. I couldn’t be more grateful to you.

      I’ve had two long relationships before meeting my narc. The first one for nine years, the second one lasted twelve years. Both with nice, kindhearted men; quite normal I would say. I was the one to walk away from both of them, after years of trying to make something, whatever it was, work; feeling somehow a bit lost and uncomfortable with all the normality; feeling like there wasn’t much left when things settled down between us, only being truly alive during the first phase of drama, the not really knowing where we stood, the on and off of the beginnings of these relationships. The second man I was involved with turned out to be asexual just as you described it though. I didn’t know it from the start, even though I really should’ve. It became really painful for both of us, I’ve always been very sexual and the hurt of it was staggering at times. I know exactly how you must have felt. I wondered too if he might have been gay, but I don’t think so. Still, a couple of years into our relationship I felt empty and confused. Still I stayed for twelve years and I never understood why, cringing inside today even thinking about it all. He was my good friend and companion, but I longed for passion and a soulmate. I think I stayed all those years because he gave me a cause, something to fix, an unsolvable problem to be neatly solved. I seem to have that tendency and I hardly ever give up easily. When I finally decided to leave I was on a quest for sexual attraction, passion beyond anything else and determined to settle for nothing less. Along came my narc, giving me exactly what I was missing, being the perfect fit. I now realise that he used sexual manipulation as well. He said he loved my sexuality, knowing how deprived of it I had been for years, but he always managed to make a point of me being insatiable, of course paving the way for all the jealous accusations that later came along.

      Thanks for telling your story. I find it enlightening. And I’m so sorry for all you’ve been through. You deserve so much more.

      1. narc affair says:

        Hi catherine…ty for sharing your story and im so glad my post resonated altho i feel bad you have gone thru a similiar experience. I watched a documentary on asexuals and was quite surprised that there are people out there that have no desire for sex. This young couple were both asexual and loved each other deeply but they never had sex. Thats so foreign to me. I need intimacy and closeness. Of course the sex changes as you are together for many years but the bond of being intimate is something i never really had so when narc came along i latched on and was amazed how incredible i felt.
        It is very painful. My narcs facade gave me everything i ever wanted but hes messed me around so much using it as a tool its ruined what we had. When he brings up sex it feels awkward and uncomfortable. Very awkward and not genuine.

    2. Antifragile says:

      I can relate so hard to your words here… if not to tell my long story, it’s just very similar… That’s still unclear for me, how narcs can detect the spheres where something important is missing in our life, and bring their fairytale there…

      1. narc affair says:

        Hi antifragile…i can see exactly where and how my narc came up with my custom fairytale it was from my own words. I told him thru all my information i volunteered about myself. He studied me so well.

      2. Catherine says:

        Yes, it’s eerie how they manage to get it so right, mirroring our innermost desires right away. Of course there’s lots of information to be had on the platforms of social media, but I do happy and sunny there mostly, never sad or dark. In my case I was too open about myself and my past too soon I think. I readily told him all he needed to know without him even asking sometimes. I will try to guard myself more in the future, not being bubbly and ready to share too soon. How do you think yours managed to make your fairytale come “true”?

        1. PhoenixRising says:

          Catherine- I made the same mistake. I let down my walls way too soon and told him things about my past (my abusive childhood) that people who have known me for years don’t even know about. He gave the illusion of safety while also sucking me in with that damn charm of his. Once he had the info he needed, it was way too easy for him to mirror to me exactly what I wanted to feel and hear.

      3. narc affair says:

        Hi catherine…my narc figured out my custom fairytale by getting me to confide in him. Hes a great listener and now i see why. I loved it having someone listen and take a keen interest in me. It must mean hes very attracted and wanted me but now i see it for an exchange of goods. I gave him fuel in different ways and he gave me based on what i confided in him my perfect fairytale but it came with a bunch of mindgames attached. Part of his narc toolbox was taking that which he learned hurt me most from my past and covertly poking fun at it and then doing the very same thing with his on and off again sexual interest. When you go from 4 yrs of being very intimate to on and off again somethings changed yet he gaslights me into thinking nothing has.
        My fairytale burst 3 or 4 yrs when i went looking online for his strange behaviour and came across sociopath. I think he sensed thru social media the pasylt year or so that i was onto him. Im certain he knows im on this site bc hes brought up narcissism and the word tudor altho its in a tudor style house reference but i know my narc and he snoops. Im very sure he knows i know hes a narcissist. Its ok tho bc he is and the fairytale is over. I do love him still and we share a friendship if you will. Its not a friendship in the true meaning tho bc i dont think that exists with a natc its always ultimately one sided and it lacks complete trust.

      4. Catherine says:


        Exactly. These narcs all seem to do the same thing. I told mine way too much way too soon. Most of it without him having to ask. Then he asked me lots of questions as well about my past and especially about past relationships, gathering information so he could start devaluing me with his jealous outbursts later on. But also I guess to know what to do and what not to do to ensnare me.

        He used his manipulative passive aggressiveness and his silent treatments on me quite early in our relationship, almost like a test to see how I would react, if I was worth his effort. Hung up the phone on me (my mother used to do that a lot, I hate it), punishing me with going to bed in an icily cold silence and so on. The first time that happened a couple of months into our entanglement I actually told him of my abusive past, sat him down the day after and thought I could communicate my pain to him and reason with him, suggesting that if he needed space after an argument he could tell me so, as long as there was a clearly defined end to it, like “we’ll talk in the morning”.. Little did I know that the argument was the means in itself, not a means to resolution.

      5. Catherine says:

        Hi narc affair, so you are still entangled with your narc or is it just a distant friendship now?

        I honestly miss mine a lot sometimes, he made me feel so incredibly alive, I thought he was my fairytale come true, but all the mind games, the complete emptiness of him.. I still can’t get over how he could be passionately involved with me for years and not be emotionally involved the way I was. It’s hard to grasp even though I now have more of the cognitive tools needed to truly understand the reality of it all.

        And a fairytale it was for awhile. I can’t believe that I let him into my private sphere that quickly because my childhood did make me lack in fundamental trust, but he managed to bypass all those walls erected without effort and I just let him in. I’ll try to be more guarded from now on. But still I believe in honesty, and want to tell and expect to be told the truth when I do meet someone else eventually. I’m scared of missing out on life and love because of these narcissistic experiences I’ve had.

      6. narc affair says:

        Hi catherine… im still with my narc. Ive tried so many times to end it and for now ive given up. I love him and thats a reality. What worries me more is what that love will cost me. I love my hubby and children more and i know its wrong. I harbour so much guilt and anxiety over it but to end it has caused me tremendous emotional and physical pain. For now im investing more time into my family and less with him. I had a psychologist ask me if i could have this turn out the way i wanted what would it look like? …Id want to be able to let go and redefine the relationship as a friendship. Id want to have the strength and courage to be completely detached from him emotionally. I do think he would accept that but the bigger question is could i? Thatd be a difficult adjustment. Id want to work on being closer in my marriage and coming to terms with the way things are and grateful for what they arent…narc abuse.
        Its been 7 yrs and my narc and i have shared a lot. He has npd but he also has some great qualities. How much is facade vs real out of those attributes ill never know. I relate to the victims out their struggling to leave their narcs its not easy. I really admire those that have and help others in the process like yourself!

        1. Mrs Linton says:

          Hello Narc Affair, I can see how difficult it can be, they imprint on your brain at a time way before we knew this stuff. The badness has to become more than we can bear before we can get rid. The only reason I have managed with this one is that he is not clever enough to keep me hooked. I feel like I just want to be celibate after this. My sister often tells me that her husband has been wonderful after periods of cruelty. I am desperate for her to leave him but we are all on our own journey.
          If he doesn’t want to be friends the sex must be the manipulation? A psychotherapy friend I once had once said always look at the currency in manipulative relationships to help you,which will always be traced to food sex or money.

        2. SuperXena says:

          Hello narcaffair,
          I find your comment very interesting. There is something that you wrote that I couldn’t’ really understand:

          ” Id want to work on being closer in my marriage and coming to terms with the way things are and grateful for what they arent…narc abuse.”
          I do not so much about your story but as far I understand your are married to a non-narcissist and having a relationship with a narcissist? Please expand if you feel like doing it.

      7. Catherine says:

        Hi narc affair, I do understand you and really feel for you. I know how hard it is to leave a narc. Or leave anyone you love at all, even though it’s not in any way a healthy relationship. And these kind of relationships are pure obsession. It feels like it would kill you to end it, like it’s a death sentence, I’ve been there, I thought my life would be over when it ended. All the emotions and all that time invested, the fact that, like you point out, it’s not only about a personality disorder, there’s a real person there with whom you have a complicated and passionate story. To put an end to a love story in which you are still invested is almost inhuman. You will have the strength some day though and I think you are so strong sharing your story here. I didn’t share anything while still with my narc. I defended him to the bitter end and sought out of the way explanations for his absurd behaviour.

        And as for my end, it came very suddenly and honestly I don’t think I could’ve prevented it. I was aware from the start that ours was a story with a limited timeframe, but that doesn’t really help when confronted with all the pain. He always worked a lot, but the last six months his company went from small to large and his time for me, and his ability to control me, diminished all of a sudden. I had more time to think away from the endless carousel that was life with him and I did think about leaving him then. I don’t think I could have, but at least these thoughts occurred to me. Then in a complete loss of control from his side, he physically abused me in a jealous rage, trying to prevent me from going on a holiday by myself that I really wanted and needed. And from there on.. I don’t know.. I hit bottom, I told people around what happened knowing they wouldn’t let me go back to him, I went on my trip, and time passed. I thought somehow I could fix it anyway, and then I just stopped thinking I could… There was never any closure, never any “we’re over” from his side, nothing. It still hurts so bad.

      8. Antifragile says:

        Hi Catherine,
        About the building tactics of fairytales, I guess my narcy gathered the identity for me from the fragments I didn’t realize myself. Piece by piece, like “see, you are a, b, c, … that’s amazing I found person like you”. Maybe he just listed the qualities he liked and planned to use or something, but this job he’ve done was something so hard for me to realize myself. I lack identity so that was precious. So yes, he used knowledge and wanted to know everything. Probably they use only curiosity and logic indeed, and that’s enough. Then common tactics for all victims applied probably: love-bombing, showing you are wanted, etc… I feel that I’m loosing memories about that already… like defensive mechanism.. I can’t repicture in my mind even some his smiles I wanted to keep for myself… lost them.

      9. Antifragile says:

        Thank you Narc Affair for sharing so much… I keep feeling together with you while reading… I also have family and know now how it is to love two different people with different love. I never thought such thing could happen to me.

  14. Sandra says:

    I voted Absent Silent but 7/12 choices applied to me. Shelfing, punishment or ploy to get me to chase him…not sure, but it never worked well for him. Inevitably he notices my happiness and that just cannot stand, can it?

  15. Recovering Narcoholic says:

    Definitely triangulation. Although he used every woman he knew for minor triangulation, the big one was his late wife. She was beautiful, wonderful, the love of his life, blah blah blah. I was constantly reminded that I could never measure up. (But of course I should keep trying.) The last sentence of the disengagement speech was, “I want what I had with L*****.” So is it any wonder he replaced me with a woman who’s in the same business as Perfect Late Wife and is just as big an alcoholic as she was (and he is)?

  16. ava101 says:

    Never silent treatments, hardly triangulation (well there was, but not major); but a constant mix of contradiction, circular talk and gas lighting. Projection, blame shifting – not. Sexual manipulation – yes. Mostly hard-to-recognize-manipulations, very subtle.

  17. Mrs Linton says:

    I am sure that “shagging my brains out” was their actual intention, too much sex stops your logic. I love the bit in the Witches of Eastwick when the witches are seduced by the Devil, and one accuses the other of thinking with her vagina when she refuses to detach from him.

    1. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

      Ms. Linton…

      Safe to say ur a British crumpet because you used the word shag? Lmao

      I’m trying to figure out who is British here lmao🤓

      1. Mrs Linton says:

        Hi Dr HQ yes I am a Brit. Rubbish shag and Mum give me away! You asked me ina another post what job I do- but I couldn’t reply, I am an OT. A huge number of my cases have autoimmune disease I can’t remember exactly where I read it but there is a definite relationship with codependency and I would love to research it. I recommend HGs blog to those clients I think can take it. Unconventional advice I know but I can’t help myself. People often say “that was so helpful I just thought your job was to look at what keyboard I should use” funny. (Sorry to be off topic HG) Thankfully not all my brains have been shagged out yet LMAO. Are you a New Yorker?

        1. dickforlong says:

          I too have seen the connection between narc abuse and autoimmune diseases. I was diagnosed with systemic lupus 5 years ago. I knew instinctively that it was from wearing myself out with adrenaline and emotion.

          1. Windstorm2 says:

            Me too. Mine is psoriatic arthritis.

          2. Mrs Linton says:

            I am so sorry Windstorm, was wondering if now you might be persuaded to kick out your Narc if it keeps you in remission. I have endometriosis which is now thought to be autoimmune, my codependent sister has an autoimmune disease. All the Narcs do is drink too much hmmmm wonder whose worse off….

          3. Windstorm2 says:

            Mrs Linton
            I live an hour away from all my family narcs in an oasis of peace and tranquility. The only living things here are dogs, a cat and wildlife! There’s no way I could ever live with a narc again. (I own far too many handguns and the temptation would be too great! 😁) I have to limit my narc exposure to small amounts with lots of restorative breaks in between. I do not let any of them – exhusband included – tear down my health any more.

            I do understand your point though. All my problems do tend to be self inflicted, including my psoriasis. There are many things that trigger it. I’m in the midst of a very painful episode right now, but it was triggered by the stress of spending a couples of week’s at my daughter’s in Kansas with her 4 preschool children!

            Thank you for your concern, though. It is very kind. ❤️

          4. Mrs Linton says:

            Hello WIndstorm I hope I was not being bossy. Understanding the auto immune thing has helped me realise just how much Narcs ruin people’s lives. No one on this website is truly in denial, this blog is such a great reality check. Take care with that condition from one infj to another …

          5. Windstorm2 says:

            Mrs Linton
            I am never offended when someone cares about my wellbeing – only grateful! Thank you for your concern.

          6. Mrs Linton says:

            DFL I am so sorry you have such a shitty disease. My hypothesis is get Narc free and start to put yourself first and you will go into remission, if you are not already. So sorry once again, may the force be with you.

          7. Overthinker says:

            Interesting I have vitiligo which is autoimmune

      2. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        Mrs Linton,

        Very interesting information. You are too funny – your brain cells are intact! I am a New Yorker! I freaking love you damn Brits!

        1. Mrs Linton says:

          Hello Dr, and we love you New Yorkers! HG can we organise an international knees up? You could be Charlie on screen with his angels LOL!

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Tudor’s Angels? Sounds like a plan.

          2. Nuit Étoilée says:

            I do love international collaboration!

            Or should I say – I love it when a plan comes together – whoops wrong reference!

          3. HG Tudor says:


          4. Nuit Étoilée says:

            *takes HG by the hand, leading him to a room-sized humidor

            But of course, which do you prefer?

            That would go along w the Charlie er I mean Tudor’s Angels – didn’t Charlie have a cigar?

            *song: Havana

        2. Mrs Linton says:

          Hi Dr HQ ENFJ stands for everyone needs fulfilment and joy. Lots to like.

  18. Suzie says:

    Looking back I wished that I had stuck to my guns and not taken him back repeatedly. I can’t believe that I was the person involved with such a bad person. That person was not who I am today.

  19. Suzie says:

    My ex malignant narc. boyfriend of almost 6 years was highly manipulative and a master of disguise. He was very good at pretending to care, being helpful, telling people what they wanted to hear. It was very difficult to see through him during the love bombing stage that lasted for about 2 years. I then again to see things in him that were very concerning. By then I was already attached to him and the attentin and affirmation that he provided. I kept try to over look the things that I was seeing and hearing, but it became increasingly difficult. Ultimately I found out how extremely cruel and abusive he was. I had broken up with him before, but was drawn back in by the hoovering and my addiction to him. We went back and forth for another 3 years until I finally ended it for good. It has been a few months now and I am still dealing with the angry and depression. I will get past it in time. The emotional manipulation was the worst.

  20. Overthinker says:

    It was hard to chose one but I chose silent treatment but projection smearing circular reasoning and contradiction and blame shifting way up there no made to feel guilty and the word salad was constant but due to his failure to grasp English he substituted the word passion for patience and it took me forever to realize he was always telling me to be passion but he meant patient lol

    1. Salome says:


  21. Scout says:

    As I could only pick one in the list I went with Absent silent treatment, however in the light of being well head-fucked over a prriod of time it’s dificult to pin down which of the listed trait was actually used the most.

  22. Freedom45 says:

    I would say all of them however the question is ‘which one used the most ‘ I really don’t know so I went for the one that sticks in my memory of him ,and it’s classic blame shifting in every aspect , nothing ever his fault !
    I remember when this light switched on in my head I read HG Escape I think ? And it said when they tell a story there is always a villain and the villain is never them . I do remember actually laughing at him at how ridiculous the blame shifting was , obviously didn’t like that and just left the room fumin that I would call him out , really don’t like people who blame others .

  23. jenna says:

    Future faking was not a choice so i chose contradictions. When the narc future fakes, he is basically contradicting himself.

  24. loveyourselfnowgirl says:

    He used circular conversations most often. I think he used these because he knew that I was a communicator, and I wanted to know his opinions. I can’t even say that I really knew him because every question I asked, it would be like nailing jello to a wall to get an answer.
    He always offered to help me with things and pay for things.. I just wanted to know him, beyond the superficial. He said “I don’t do intimacy.”
    Triangulation with women here in the city and on the internet was another favourite of his. After the first go round of this with a woman from the States, I stopped reacting to that, and so now he is friends with my brother and sister on Facebook, AFTER I ended everything with him. (WTF!!??)
    I am off Facebook and haven’t said word one to either of my siblings about his abuse. They would not believe me anyway. Why try. If he found out, I would get the brunt of it, I am sure.
    I am no contact now for 14 days (I can’t wait to stop counting) and it irritates me that he is connected to my siblings. My brother, also an abusive narc, is FB friends with at least 12 of my friends… people don’t know the harm that they have done me, because I don’t want to start anything. I would rather walk away and rebuild my life. I am trying to move forward and stop focusing on people that tried to destroy me emotionally. I feel like the crazy one, and the one left out while these narcissists do so very well with their image management. It makes me sick. I wish I could grow a pair and tell these manipulative, sick people off. Thing is, it would just give them fuel. Confronting these little boys in men’s bodies only gives them their jollies. They wouldn’t care. They don’t care. And. It. Fucking. Hurts.because I don’t have any one I can talk to about all this crap. Sorry for my language but that’s my truth today. Feel free to edit it out. Just like I would love to edit the narcs right out of my life.

    1. Sylvia says:

      Just do it! Edit them out! They are so damaged, it’s sad, but one day you won’t really care anymore. I’ve decided the only narcs I’m gonna let back into my life are the one who are gonna pay for my time when I’m a psychologist. Stay strong x

      1. loveyourselfnowgirl says:

        I have edited them out physically. I am working on the mental and emotional exorcism now. And that’s the hardest part. I still spend energy on people who didn’t ever give a crap about me. But, in order to heal, that’s what I am willing to do… purge the toxins and keep purging them until their power over me is gone. Thanks for your encouragement – it’s helpful and appreciated. xo

    2. Windstorm2 says:

      Several things you said resonated with me about your feeling frustrated. You do have someone to talk to now and discuss your narcs with. That is one of the wonderful things about this blog. We are a whole community all dealing with and affected by narcissism.

      Read HG’s articles and share your feelings and experiences here in the comments. You won’t be censored, but you will find understanding and a way to work thru your feelings. Ill be thinking about you and sending you positive energy. ⚡️⚡️⚡️

      1. loveyourselfnowgirl says:

        I must be hormonal today or something but your post brought tears to my eyes. (Actually I think it’s partially lack of decent sleep!) I am so grateful for this blog, and HG’s books. I keep saying “how the fuck does he know what I have been through since childhood with narcissistic parents.” It’s like HG was a fly on the wall of my dysfunctional family life and captures all the narcissistic games and manipulations so well. I am so motivated to change myself and become un-fucking-recognizable to these monsters. I am angry, but motivated to heal the shit out of myself on every level. I have had ENOUGH.
        Thank you HG for your wisdom in sharing all of this information. You are saving this girl’s ass from continued susceptibility to abuse. It’s a relief to start to really believe that it really never was my fault. I have a role in it and I own that, but I am letting go of all the shit that they did, and reclaiming my right to be a whole, beautiful person.
        Thanks for your support Windstorm2. It’s very much appreciated. I am combing this blog daily and watching YouTube videos daily. I am soaking myself in this stuff so that it becomes as ingrained and natural as breathing.

    3. Mrs Linton says:

      Loveyourselfnowgirl remember he is just being friends with your siblings to upset you. Just keep your distance and he will get bored. He will reveal himself in time. I remember people defending my ex and defending my mother until they were treated badly , and they will be. The long game is the only one you can win.

      1. loveyourselfnowgirl says:

        Thanks for your encouragement. I know he is just trying to get to me. I haven’t reacted to any of his FB crap, except for blocking him and deactivating my account. (I know, any action is fuel for them but I did what I felt was right for me in the moment.) The whole Facebook thing is so immature I don’t want to see any of it anymore.
        I don’t even want to “win” at this. I just want to be left alone and live my life in peace, with my mind, emotions and soul intact. Ignoring these creatures is my best path to a healthier and wholesome existence.

    4. K says:

      I don’t mind if you swear and you can talk to me if you feel sad or angry. I understand what you are going through.

      1. loveyourselfnowgirl says:

        Thank you so much K. It;s nice to have the support of people who get it, without me having to do a lot of rehashing and explaining.

      2. K says:

        My pleasure! This is the best place to be for healing from NPD.

      3. loveyourselfnowgirl says:

        Thanks again K, I am soaking it all in. It is one of the most powerful blogs I have read. Tudor’s books are also easy to read and full of valuable information.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Yes they are and thank you for recognising that.

    5. Yolo says:

      Keep standing in your truth…own it. Let it out..time flies don’t worry about counting the days try to make the best of each day.
      You have a support group here.

      Peace and Healing

      1. loveyourselfnowgirl says:

        Thank you Yolo. I am slowly letting go. You are right – counting the days is not necessary. Grateful for your support. 🙂

  25. Wendy Armitage says:

    Mostly all of them but the silent treatments are the knife in the heart but i guess you know that hg x

    1. Ting says:

      So many say silent treatments. Mine never gave me the silent treatment. He never shut up. I would cringe while trying to watch a favorite show, or talk on the phone (which I rarely got to do in his presence), and if I would try to say something, he would say I was interrupting him. I would constantly say to myself “Just shut up!” I am so enjoying the silence now.

      1. Windstorm2 says:

        I know where you’re coming from. I can remember a time when silent treatments hurt, but if it’s a choice of verbal abuse or silence? I’ll sure take silence every time!

  26. Twilight says:


  27. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

    I would respect someone a lot more if they were straight up and said “I did ____ but I just don’t care” or “I felt like it”

    See…it doesn’t make you any less of a piece of shit but at least I won’t completely lose all respect for you lol…

    1. gabbanzobean says:

      Dr. HQ…..he was upfront with me like that once before his pitying of “I need to be faithful to my wife”. I said “well then why’d you have sex with me?”

      His reply was “You were new and lovely and I could not help myself”

      1. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        He’s a pussy. He feels so bad he keeps on doing it lol. Seriously though every word that comes out of that vagina’s mouth is utter bullshit so focusing and analyzing his every word is totally pointless. The message remains the same and the outcome remains the same. He is a waste. A complete waste of your time. You will never get what you want out of him. He doesn’t even have what you want. What you want is something he can’t give you. You are filling a void with his…NOTHINGNESS…

        I say nothingness because that is what it is. What is that saying someone said to me…oh yes….he sprinkles sugar on that bullshit and calls it candy….

      2. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        Translation: I had sex with you because I like the way you make me feel about myself. You make me feel attractive and wanted. I like the way you react to me fucking you. That must mean I’m pretty irresistible and I still have it. Wow…I really like the attention you give me. Whenever I feel like getting some attention…I know who to run to.

        1. Windstorm2 says:

          Dr Q
          Good translation.

      3. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        All I hear out of his mouth is blah blah blah……

        1. Windstorm2 says:

          Dr Q
          I’d dearly love to watch you meet this Mr Piano guy. I bet he wouldn’t be able to get out of the room fast enough! You giving him a piece of your mind would make a great video!

          1. HG Tudor says:

            But fuel nevertheless.

          2. Windstorm2 says:

            Is it still fuel if they are scared and humiliated? I would have thought it would just wound. Of course afterwards he would rearrange it in his mind into something where he was witty and had the upper hand….no matter how a narc bombs out, he always arranges it in his mind to make himself look good.

          3. HG Tudor says:

            If you are scared that provides us with fuel.

      4. Freedom45 says:

        Gab you are definitely drowning emotionally , understanding is your first step then comes knowledge , the best thing you can do is have telephone consultation and I’m certain then and only then you will start to understand something just clicks after you speak to HG , obviously you have a part deciding not wanting to be treated like this anymore so if you made your mind up , I hate seeing anyone drown emotionally I have been there and don’t want to go back . He will help you understand , then comes knowledge and that is where your power is .
        I have email consultations now for the friggen smallest things because my well-being is if upmost importance to me . I have done a year free and I’m doing very well xx

        No one will help you as much as this if you want the help x

        Best wishes to you xxxx

      5. ANK says:

        Oh yes, Gabs, a shiny new toy, a new seduction challenge – all fuel for them.

    2. Sophia says:

      Dr. HQ

      I used to tell him that!! In fact, I’d word it almost verbatim to what you said, aside from the last sentence. 😂 I’d also remind him that I could read his body language and detect his voice changes when he lied.

      1. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        Body language tells so much. It’s harder with psychopaths but there is a trick re psychopaths…

        1. Twilight says:

          Dr Quinzel

          What is the trick?

      2. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        I can only give a hint lmao ….

        It’s on their face…

        They typically don’t do it as much as the average individual…but when they lie they do it more…

        It’s seen physically in any interaction….

      3. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        They often have an interesting way of speaking…

        What I find amusing is when I listen to them speak they will say things like:

        Mr. psychopath, have you ever killee anyone?

        Psychopath: No I have not but this one time I got into a fight and I choked this man out and he stopped breathing.

        1. Twilight says:

          Dr Quinzel


          Micro expressions

          Body language never lies

        2. Mrs Linton says:

          Hi Doc, just before my ex and I split up, he was not on the scene that much as he was getting loads of Narc supply from his official primary source and hopefully he still is. She was trying to throw him out but he wouldn’t go, I had to listen to all this bs whilst all the time terrified he would move in with me and then I wouldn’t be able to get him out.
          Apparently she flipped one night because she only THOUGHT he had locked her out when of course he wouldn’t do that! Except of course he HAD done just that. What a perverse way to get kicks by locking her out for starters and then playing the victim and simultaneously playing me with his bs story. It ended then I am not going to be locked out of my own freaking house ….

  28. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

    They all are irritating as hell – especially when you have absolutely no patience for bullshit anymore.

    1. 12345 says:

      Mine did that. He would do something and I would say “why won’t you apologize”? He’d say “because I’m not sorry”.

      1. Windstorm2 says:

        Ha, ha! Honesty from a narc! I used to think my exhusband never apologized because he never thought he was wrong, but I imagine that was his main reason too. He just never cared, so was never sorry.

      2. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        Like i said – hes a fucking piece of shit either way lol but i respect that more.

    2. Diana says:

      Amen… my tolerance is NIL.

    3. Freedom45 says:

      Just nearly spat my tea out when I seen your profile pic !!! Brilliant haha xx Ya just nailed it for me ,

      1. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        LOL! So tell me…are you a British crumpet as well? I must admit that tea comment made me think British lol! An american would have said coffee 😂…

      2. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        I wanna play a game “if you’re British and you know it clap your hands”

        I wanna see who all the brits are lmao!

        1. ANK says:


      3. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        We have one clap so far! Hello my British friend ANK.


        1. ANK says:

          Hello my inspirational friendly Doc.😍

  29. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

    It’s hard to pick one. I would say blame shifting, circular conversation, sexual manipulations, projection, made to feel guilty.

    Anyone dumb enough to try to gaslight me needs to be either a blithering idiot or is legit balls to the wall crazy.

    1. Mrs Linton says:

      Hi Dr I am not a psychologist but much of my job involves close analysis of conversation to give a professional opinion and with a name for these strategies I feel like they can’t get away with anything. I always find Narcs are so up themselves they are oblivious to how darn clever we can be, and it can be comical to watch those mid rangers blunder around. When my own ex partner criticised the mother of his kids he never actually said anything that I could discern. “When her father says jump she says how high? For me she won’t” (good on her) He also complained constantly about her family who were obviously her reality check and a support to her. Part finished Trump like word salad “she she she” with no substance whatsoever. As a psychologist you must be able to disseminate all and then write an essay on it all! My ex Narc had no idea what job I do except it sounds a bit important. His preoccupation has been that there are three medical doctors in my immediate family, as if I would ride off the back of those Narcs like he was trying to ……

      1. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        Mrs. linton,

        You are absolutely correct re everything you stated above lol. They think we have no idea what’s going on – their lies often tell me the truth. It is always a matter of listening to what someone is really trying to communicate because then I can see what they are trying to hide. Everything someone says or doesn’t say gives something away. We may not know exactly what it is but we know it’s bullshit and we often know what direction to go in. I would love to know what you do. You are an interesting one – I love it!

      2. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        Mrs. linton,

        A key red flag that I’m dealing with a narc is that they talk talk talk and there are tons of words and something flowery pretty language yet no content.

        They say a whole lot of nothing….

        Which tells me everything….


        1. Mrs Linton says:

          Hello Dr HQ, How funny. I think word salad was the last thing I ever cottoned on to. Until then I had always just attributed it to low IQ! Now I know people just don’t make sense on purpose…

      3. Noname says:

        “…their lies often tell me the truth…”. Bravo.

        I want to correct your phrase a little – their lies ALWAYS tell the truth about them!

  30. DL says:

    He used all of these manipulation tactics. Word salad and circular conversations, projection was high on the list, but I picked gas lighting because he manipulated my reality. And hid his true sexual orientation from me.

  31. geyserempath says:

    Expounding on the poll: My ex Narc’s top manipulation of choice was Triangulation. Right from the beginning he would openly flirt with other women when we went out together. I would question him so he learned this bothered me. Months in, he began to bring up a coworker and how funny she was. Every time we were together he would bring her up. I bit my lip although my stomach churned every time this occurred. To his credit, at the start of our relationship, he didn’t like or comment on other women’s photos on Facebook and he didn’t add new ones as friends. Suddenly, about nine months in, he started friending women he didn’t know at all. Three or four every day or so. I brought this up as he knew I would. He trivialized my feelings, explaining he just liked to see hot women in his feed. He continued to like and comment on my posts and pics as well which ensured I wouldn’t speak on the matter again because I would have been labelled jealous, insecure, or crazy. He has since stopped liking and commenting on any of my posts. I will NOT mention it, but I believe he knows this is extremely effective as him approving of other women’s looks and thinking they are beautiful and sexy destroys my confidence. He is mid-range (perhaps upper mid-range) so all of this is apparently not done with malice, but it hurts just the same. I have not moved past the feeling that my self-worth is based solely on his estimation. Thank you, HG, for both the poll and bringing narcissist abuse to light.

  32. Salome says:

    AM I ?

  33. Just Me says:

    I had to vote “made to feel guilt.” The actual sin for this guilt was never mine but a re-write of history. I wore the noose none the less. Would also vote for fear and intimidation if they listed.

  34. echo says:

    The one that was common to all of my romantic relationships was sexual manipulations, in all the ways described above. So that’s what I voted for. But thinking about it, I should have included parental relationships and friendships. I would have voted made to feel guilty.

    The message I got from all of it was that my desires didn’t matter. I had no real say in what happened and was punished if I tried to stand up for myself. I didn’t just learn to ignore myself but to actively reject it in favor of pleasing someone else.

    As far as why? I don’t know. Probably because it was easy. There’s also a lot of power and control wrapped up in the sexual manipulations so it was probably very fueling for them, whichever way they chose to use it.

  35. DebbieWolf says:

    Posting again..following on from Word Salad. Had a fault on the site when sending. . . .

    In fact…I physically screamed one time.
    I know! 👀😩
    Never have I done that. I still cannot believe I did.
    I cannot believe how I felt inside..like I would die on the spot. My body felt tight..taut..like something that would split open any minute.
    Horrible experience.

    I ended up seeing a doctor because I became ill shortly after that and had blood pressure that was a few degrees off the emergency room I had to be treated and I had 5 weeks off work.
    I went down..
    I totally fell figuratively speaking.
    At the same time I gave him his ring back and called off the engagement.
    Then I ended up with the initial grand hoover.

    Rinse lather repeat.
    This was three years ago.
    What a fiasco.👎💔😒🤕

    One of my sayings now is “thy shalt not fall”
    Is it any wonder?
    That is why the wolf is my emblem now.
    Symbolising strength leadership and ability to fight.
    But at the same time not forgetting to be loving ..(as they are often gentle) going forward and not to forget I am part of a larger pack..wolves are loyal and protective too..good caretakers of their own. Able.
    They know how to go it alone if they must…. and ultimately are beautiful creatures.

    Some choose something that works mentally as a kind of mind focus symbol and I am very much an animal lover. Then I also found this site as well as others. But here…the brutal truth of a doer has allowed me to sit and rest a while..to take a breath!
    At the moment I am a lone wolf.
    Sharper senses this time..but alone right now.
    Sometimes weary but walking on…keeping going..
    What else but keeping going.

    1. K says:

      Too bad the health care profession does not know enough about NPD or domestic violence to ask the right questions.

      1. DebbieWolf says:



      2. Tappan Zee says:

        Too bad the health care profession does not know enough about NPD or domestic violence to ask the right questions.

        ^ 100%

  36. gabbanzobean says:

    I wanted to choose silent treatments since that is the one I received the most, however I could not differentiate present or absent silence because I am long-distance. He was not present with me but he was absent due to the distance, so if you want to be specific I would say silence in general has happened to me the most.

    Since I could not elaborate this in the poll choices I chose the 2nd common one for me which was contradictions. Good Lord, the contradictions!!!! One week it was “I love you”. The next week it was “I don’t love you”. One week it was “you mean so much to me and are not just a fling”….the next week it was “you are a fling”. He loved talking on the phone with me all the time and then it was “I hate talking on the phone”.

    The 3rd most frequent was probably triangulation although it often went right over my head. Flirting with the waitress, saying hi to random strangers and smiling at them, telling me that his coworker thought I was “too attached to him”. Telling me about a guy friend who texted him as much as me and told me he “hated that” and as much as he liked the guy and considered him a friend the guy was “so annoying”….is that “indirect smearing”? Saying that someone else feels a certain way about me as a “hint hint”…? Comparing me to someone else who “texts too much”?

    I had some projection mixed in there as well along with some word salad. I was never gas-lighted in terms of recalling events and being told that things happened differently, etc. (probably due to my DLS nature of not seeing/interacting with him in day to day life) however I was told I was overthinking, overreacting, interpreted things wrong, repeatedly asked “are you ever tired of being wrong?” and so on. I guess that can be mixed with blame shifting too.

    While I was not manipulated sexually in the way where I was asked to do things that made me uncomfortable, he definitely repeatedly said “we are done having sex” but he never meant it (contradictions)….etc. Funny how each thing has multiple manipulations attached to it.

    My head now hurts. LOL.

    1. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

      He legit said to you “You are a fling”?

      Oh wow…he should be thanking the lord above that he wasn’t my narcissist.

      Gab – this guy is such a peasant. I don’t know how you engage with him. I mean I do get it but I don’t if you know what I mean lol.

      You are just so above this loser. Is it possible you are more hung up on feeling accepted, attractive, and wanted than the dick?

      You know I’m direct so I’m just gonna keep it real here…you aren’t just after the dick. There is no depth to your relationship with him. You have depth…he does not. There is NO SUBSTANCE to him. He acts all like he’s complex and shit but I can assure you the man is simple.

      What are you chasing? You want an empty relationship with a man who calls you a fling? That is the equivalent to a man saying “You are just a fuck – that’s it – get over it”. You want a relationship with someone who can only talk about sex? He is an amoeba you are like so above him. I swear to god if you were with him you would be so fucking bored!!!! You would continue to chase him in the relationship with him. The best thing that never happened was the fact you were never in a real relationship with him.

      This guy is such a whiny little shit. I can’t stomach him. You deserve a real man not a pussy.

      1. gabbanzobean says:

        “Is it possible you are more hung up on feeling accepted, attractive, and wanted than the dick?”

        Bingo. 🙁

      2. K says:


      3. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        I say this because I actually give a shit and someone needs to say this and I’ll take one for the team here…

        I say this out of love because it is almost as if I’m speaking to myself because I see so much of myself in you…

        you are chasing what you are lacking in yourself – you are searching outside of yourself for something you can only find inside of yourself…

        you dont need him to make you feel attractive and sexy and worth something…

        he is worth nothing…

        he is a lie…

        you need to fix that part of yourself….

        you wont be looking for anything from him once you take a long hard look at yourself and go why the fuck do i feel that way? that is only half the battle because at that point you need to look at urself and realize you are worth more than being treated like a whore.




        It’s so frustrating to watch because you are clearly FUCKING CLEARLY an amazing human being who has so much to offer personality wise and intellectually… and you are settling on some fucking fake church dude who is just full of complete and utter bullshit….

        ugh cant narcangel just pull some of her awesome dominatrix shit on him and whip his ass and treat him like the piece of shit he is?


        He doesn’t wanna fuck you anymore? GOOD! His dick wasn’t that great anyway!! You don’t need that dick you can get whatever damn dick you want!

        1. jenna says:

          Doc and gabs,

          Doc: “… some fucking fake church dude…”

          Lol! Lol! Lol!

      4. gabbanzobean says:

        He USED TO SAY “you are more than a fling to me…..”

        After I uncovered his sex profiles online and sent them to him, I was given the nasty contradiction of being referred to as a fling.

        I went back and re-read all the texts and while he did not flat out say “You are a fling” he said, “regardless of how YOU view ME…I am nothing more than a fling”. Okay sneaky wording there but very opposite of what he used to say. Well how about that….not directly saying such but it was implied.

        My interpretation was: “YOU ARE A FLING”

        Then in another text he said “well surely people can have sex and NOT be in love”.

        UMMM isn’t that what a fling is you idiot?!!!???

      5. DebbieWolf says:

        Doc HQ

        ❤ Thanks for the strength in your comments.
        Always a boost. Big hug and kind thoughts for you. Best wishes for you🌹

      6. Tappan Zee says:

        You deserve a real man not a pussy.

        ^dont disrespect our bodies by using them as a descriptor for that guy :/

      7. ANK says:

        Dr HQ,

        Love you for your ‘tell it like really is’ comments!

        Always helpful to read even though on someone else’s situation as they can still applicable to others.

      8. Yolo says:

        Dr. Quinn

        I was channel surfing and came across one of those trashy talk shows. This man( caveman) told his girlfriend all I need from you is to fill my stomach and empty my dick. Ugh,I thought what a asshole.

        I think although some of the narcs we know may not say it out loud their actions reflect the same as the caveman. And yet we still hang to narc providing fuel, emptying dicks, anf filling bellys. 🤔

        Apologize.in advance for the vulgarity.

        The manipulation used most on me was the guilt trips. By matrinarc and the other idiots.

      9. gabbanzobean says:

        Re: your comment about filling stomachs and emptying dicks kind of hit home. He enjoyed all the cookies I ever baked for him and his favorite place to be was in my mouth.


        1. ANK says:

          Yep fucking and food is as much as they care about.

    2. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


      Next time he says you are done having sex don’t respond or say okay no problem. The next time he comes onto you don’t answer or if you do answer don’t flirt. This fucking nobody thinks he can have you whenever he wants – HELL NO.

      You need to remind him that he doesn’t matter and that his dick isn’t a big deal.

      sorry – not sorry – you need to put this “nice guy” in his place. He makes me legit want to vomit.

    3. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


      Don’t ever chase him. You are far too big of a deal to be chasing such a loser. Don’t ever chase anyone. If a man doesn’t chase you – FUCK IT.
      I learned that the hard way about 10x over LMAO.

      Seriously though….no man is worth chasing. If they like you enough they will chase you. He doesn’t do shit. He is so worthless! You don’t actually gain from your interaction. The only person who gains is HIM. He comes to you when he FEELS like it and fucks you when he FEELS like it. He picks you up and puts you down whenever he FEELS like it.

      He is so pathetic. You really are performing a charitable service by fucking him.

      1. gabbanzobean says:

        Dr. HQ….it is always narc opposite day! Next time we talk he will be back to “I love you, you are more than a fling”….

        Oh he also said that “he could pay a hooker to get him off and it would be less stressful than me”.

        And finally “Don’t you realize you can have sex with someone and not love them? Yes it is hypocritical of me but my morality is trying to win over my biology here! You know sexuality is my vice. It’s like a heroin addict wanting to shoot up again.”

        Oh and if you are wondering what caused all of this to happen….all of this came out after he gave me his latest “we are done having sex I am going to do the right thing and be faithful to my wife”. So I immediately emailed him the sex profiles I found on fetish/hook-up websites and said “well you may want to remove these if you are going to do the right thing”. That made the contradictions rain yet again. Jenna says I wounded him. LOL. Not once amidst all of that did he even acknowledge my emailing of aforementioned profiles. It turned into the text exchanges as mentioned above.

        Mr. Piano at church.

      2. Freedom45 says:

        I know this isn’t a laughing matter but I’m in stitches at Dr Harleen getting so passionate about putting Gabs man in his rightful place , so good to read and I agree totally !!!
        Love it x
        Gab I hope your head stops hurting soon , stay no contact and it will , best wishes.to you x
        Hopefully Dr Hareen will continue with the odd opinion I love them xx hahaha

      3. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        TELL THAT PEASANT TO SIT THE FUCK DOWN because his dick isnt that great! Yeah I stepped the fuck out of my Psychologist role because this reality check was needed LMAO.

      4. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        Sit down and write a list of what you like and don’t like about him

        write another list about what you gain and what you lose by interacting with him

      5. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        This loser should be getting down on his damn knees and begging….

        You are kind enough to grace him with your presence and he has the balls to treat you as if you are beneath him? PLEASE!


        He is disgusting.

      6. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        Listen, I could sit here and give you some psychobabble bullshit and say all the right psychologist lines to you that come out of a textbook but that is not my style on this forum or well…in general.

      7. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        Please stop doing this to yourself. I recognize I’m taking a chance by my million posts to you but I just have to say it. I can’t pretend – I’m all about authenticity and you love it or you hate it and I’m willing to take that chance right now. I’m saying this because I can’t watch you crash into a brick wall. Each message you send…each moment you spend thinking about him you are wasting away. You are wasting far too much time on someone who ultimately represents and embodies all of your insecurities. He isn’t even a someone! He is nothing. There is nothing there. You are so much more than you even give yourself credit for.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Wise words.

      8. DebbieWolf says:

        Doc HQ

        A million likes on your comments today.
        the things you’ve written can be applied by others too and have helped me today.
        Thank you.

      9. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        Hi everyone,

        I apologize for the delay in responding but I came home to police at my door which was weird enough…. because my alarm went off and I had the cops check the the entire place and behold when they leave I heard someone knocking – like screwing with me knocking so I called the police again and got insanely mad. So yeah I’m a little freaked out right now and at a friends house.

        I’m glad I entertained people though – currently trying to distract myself…

        Seriously don’t let anyone make you feel like you are a fuck toy. All I hear out of gabs dude is utter bullshit.

        1. jenna says:

          Doc, i hope u r safe. I hope it was a false alarm. Is ur ex psychopath hoovering u? Pls b careful.

        2. Mrs Linton says:

          Dr HQ you are wonderful and I love reading your posts. Gabs if you are listening we have all fallen for the wonderful comments, idealise then devalue sweet mean flip flop, inject the wonder drug then take it away, put you on that pedestal kick you to the floor. These comments are just to get you HOOKED However much you want to believe them he is a liar. So glad you are going for that consult.

      10. abrokenwing says:

        I’m so glad You have said that Harley.

      11. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        I’m safe. It’s all good. I found out the battery was low in my alarm system but the knocking remains unexplained. Lemme put it this way it didn’t sound like an animal or a tree it sounded like someone fucking with me – legit fist knocking on the outside of my den.

        I feel safer now cause the probability of it being a person is low at this point but because of what I do, the population I work with, AND the experiences I’ve had my perception of the situation was VERY realistic. I’m still going to be hypervigilent but I feel a lot calmer knowing the possibility is low at this point.

        The fact that everyone couldn’t seem to like see my point of view except for one person was very frustrating. I had people telling me I was exaggerating or it was shit that it couldn’t have been – it was all extremely annoying.

        Note to self – get cameras all over the perimeter of the house. It never hurts to be extra safe.

      12. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        The very fact that you are considered a dirty secret is so fucking Disrespectul it makes me want to kick him in the balls over and over again.

        He is no joke saying: “gabby you aren’t good enough for people to know about you.”

        All I hear when I hear dirty little secret is “you cramp my style and you make look bad” I also hear “you are embarrassing because you aren’t good enough”

        I mean he has disrespected you in so many ways I can’t even count but the biggest fuck you is the fact that you are a complete dirty little secret. The funny part is he should be showing you off. Gab, you are a big fuxking deal! He is the fuxking person who should be hidden – he is embarrassing! That idiot brings you down.

        I repeat you honestly perform charity everytime you even engage with that nobody. He should have a shrine to ur ass and be worshipping you not tossing you to the side when he feels like it.

        Can someone kick him in the balls once for me?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          It will be painful, but it is still fuel.

          1. Windstorm2 says:

            Wow! I have a very hard time understanding how they can still get fuel from being physically hurt! I try to imagine a way my exhusband could still be fueled by being hurt and I can’t imagine it if he didn’t win in some way. How could one consider it a win to be kicked in the balls? Can some narcs still get fuel from being publicly hurt and humiliated? And not thru pity from others – just from the actual punishment?

          2. HG Tudor says:

            You will be angry or upset as you swing that foot. Your eyes will be full of fuel, your expression is fuel, your body language is fuel, the act is fuel and if you speak as you do it, yet more fuel.

          3. Windstorm2 says:

            Oh! But that’s if we do it. I thought DrQ wanted to hire it done. What if someone he’d never seen or who was wearing a mask came up and kicked him in the nuts, or beat him? Then if he accused his IP of being involved she could say with no emotion that she wasn’t involved (a friend or family member had hired it without her knowledge). Would there still be fuel?

          4. HG Tudor says:

            No. The commission of the act however is still causing engagement however.

          5. Windstorm2 says:

            Thank you for your answer. That was one of my long-term fantasies- hiring a large man to beat mine with a tobacco stick. Never did of course. Just seemed too many ways it could go wrong. I did perfect shutting down and looking and talking totally emotionlessly. That worked very well. And still does when I need to use it.

            You can’t control a narc, but you can somewhat control the choices you give him to choose from – me spouting positive fuel or me shut down giving nothing – they usually will choose the positive fuel. 😄

          6. HG Tudor says:


        2. Gabrielle says:

          Dr HQ,
          You just tripped another memory for me. Back in the love bombing stage, when everything was fucking rainbows and sunshine, he used to make this joke with me that whenever I saw him that I should “punch him in the dick” because he deserved it. Of course in my oblivious nature I would say things like “what? Why? You don’t deserve that”. I guess this goes back to what Tappan Zee said. Or Narc Angel? Narc Affair? Shouting out to all three ladies as I cannot precisely remember who said it, but they said “they give us little inklings of truth throughout the shit they spew”….

          I remember frequently saying that due to the long distance, I never got the nasty devaluation that so many people have experienced. Well not only have I finally got it but I got a lot worse after tipping him off about his sex site profiles. I actually asked him once how many people he had sex with. And he said he lost count. But said it was at least 40. He’s 33 years old!!!!! Ewww. Just ewwww. One of his contradictory texts was, “ I did not use you for sex. But you know sexuality is my drug, ane my morality is trying to win over my biology”

          Yeah dude. It’s not winning because you still fuck anything that moves.
          I’d ask why his wife is so oblivious, but that would be very hypocritical of me.

          The church congregation really needs to get up and leave during the piano recital.

          Ugh ugh ugh. 🤢

          1. Jenna says:

            Hi gabs,

            I am glad u r not feeling overwhelmed by all the lovely pple giving u their advice. It is because we care for u. Btw, i would throw tomatoes at him in church during the phony piano recital!

            I have just read what many of the ladies have gone thru in their childhood, including u, narcaffair, cathrine, overthinker, and more. It breaks my heart. I am so sorry for the suffering you all had to endure.

      13. narc affair says:

        Hi gabs…hindsight is 20/20. When you look back the puzzle pieces start to fit together. When youre experiencing it for the first time and arent aware if narcissism or decietful people in general its easy to be too trusting. The narc truth “it feels good so you dont see” springs to mind. I ignored so much of what he showed me bc i was enjoying the facade. I can see so many red flags in what youve written but when youre involved in it its not as easy to see or emotional thinking takes over and clouds the red flags.
        Its true whoever had mentioned it (Dr.Q i think) that they sprinkle the b.s. with a tiny bit of truths or sugar coat it. Half truths are a form of gaslighting in itself. It makes you second guess the b.s. bc theres some truth mixed in there.
        Its so easy to focus on his wife i totally get it but honestly shes being treated as bad as you if not being devalued worse. I guarantee hes got a matrix full of women hes involved with and he admitted to that fact about his sexuality and how many times hes had sex. 40 different women? Hes a male slut plain and simple…a manwhore. He may be involved in the church but hes no where near innocent.
        I just hate the way hes treated you as a dls. That is a hurtful place to be. Some women enjoy being the dls bc they dont want a committed relationship but you seem to want and need more which is only natural. Youre a young woman and have so much to offer a partner. What are you hoping for your future? Did you want to get married and have children? Buy a home together? Invest in a future with someone you love, trust and respect? You wont get it being a dls. Dls is a position thats a nowhere position. Its as he put it a fling and something “on the side”. Youre more than a fling sweetie! Much more! Kick him to the curb and walk away with your head held high!

        1. Windstorm2 says:

          Narc Affair
          Yes! Well said!!

      14. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        If he gives that dick away so freely – it isn’t something special. Shit.. anyone can have it.

        He is about as special as a hooker.

        1. gabbanzobean says:

          Dr HQ….
          “Gives his dick away so freely”

          You just tripped another memory….when he originally shared that he had been with an estimated 40 (or more) people, I asked him why that was.

          His explanation was, “Well you see this is the thing with me, I am a bit different with how I express my affection…”

          Me: “You express your ‘affection’ by having sex with someone?”

          Him: “Yes. As long as the sexual attraction is there. But it is not always there. Like for example, one of my coworkers (insert name here)….we get along and she’s nice and all. But the sexual attraction? There is nothing there. At all. No chemistry whatsoever. So while I have affection for her as a person I will never have sex with her. Now with you for example that sexual attraction is much more intense….it’s like pouring gasoline on a fire.”

          Me: “So let me get this straight… if you like someone, even if only in a friendly and non-romantic manner, then you…have sex with with them?”

          Him: “I tend to express my affection very deeply. And that is just a way of expressing that affection.”

          Good grief do I feel fucking stupid.

          But yeah free giveaway of dick pretty much. Sex addict.

          Joke is on me for thinking I was actually special to him.

          1. K says:

            His “sexual attraction” is really a “fuel attraction”. That co-worker may be an apath or a NoFuC. But you, you are full of potent and delicious fuel and he loves your fuel and will extract it from you using sex or silent treatments. No chemistry=no/low fuel output. He expresses his deep affection (read addiction) by literally fucking the fuel out of you and other women.
            If I were a narc I would go after you too. You are a fuel carrier.

        2. NarcAngel says:

          Dr HQ

          Before we (collectively not just you because I know how you meant it) decide hookers are not special or put them down perhaps we should examine the following:

          Thats all we are to Narcs, and hookers at least get paid for the bullshit then walk away. We pay THEM (Narcs-our drug and addiction) by doing it for free and then add on all the residual benefits: our finances, homes, social lives, health, stay FOREVER and then somehow think were better. Is it somehow pious to give it away for free as long as you use the word love?

          We are less than a hooker to a Narc-we are a run of the mill toaster he doesnt even have to pay. In fact he will use one AND PAY HER while hes with us because thats how little he regards us.

          Sometimes you gotta wonder whose got it wrong.

      15. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        My ex used to always say that having sex was like the only way he knew how to feel like loved and that’s how he expresses his “love”. After awhile I felt like I was no joke having someone masturbate on top of me.
        Everytime I would fly in to a fit he would try and have sex with me and when I’m mad lemme just say I don’t want to please the other person….. lol. To be fair, we would fight about everything but plenty of times it was about sex because I started cutting him off more and more. The thought of him touching me made me want to vomit after awhile. I can’t even begin to explain how much I felt like a machine – doing whatever u had to to make it end. Plenty of times I would become so angry I would try my best to turn him off but it rarely worked.

        We are just holes. A hole is a hole is a hole.


        You make valid points. I certainly understand what you are saying. I was merely trying to point out their love and their sex is cheap and anyone can have it. I don’t like things that are dirty like that. Dirty dick doesn’t entice me. I mean figuratively we are both prostitutes – the narc and the victim which is why HG’s whore piece is one of my favorites. I perceive the narc as a whore and they perceive us as whores.

      16. gabbanzobean says:

        I am assuming that since he is a mid-range (and HG says they do not know what they are) this is his way of “justifying” his behavior? The excuses/explanation about how he views sex, etc.
        i.e. sexuality is my drug, I express my affection deeply, it’s like the cokehead analogy, etc. etc. Because he does not know what “fuel” is? So that is what he thinks? Just thinking that he has an addiction to sex where in reality it is how he seeks his fuel? But not knowing what he is he cannot link the 2 in his benumbed little brain? Am I making sense with this analyzation?

        1. Dickforlong says:

          My 1st instinct when I read the “I’m a sex addict” ploy was a previous supply said it to him and he picked up the flag and started waving it. How fucking great now he gets to have an affliction…. Not be just a grade a asshole and someone will be inspired to help him overcome said affliction .

          Anything a narc says he says to get something from us.

          JUST SOUNDED SO MUCH like the crap I used to hear.

          1. Windstorm2 says:

            I agree with your analysis. It probably was another woman who gave him that idea and re ran with it to get more fuel and absolve responsibility for his own behavior.

          2. Jenna says:


            This is a v good observation. I also think gab’s jerk must have picked it up frm a previous appliance.

            When i started feeling something has changed, i asked my now ex-narc, if he feels any connection to me. My heart was pounding as i asked this. I knew the answer shud be ‘yes’ as he physically expresses much love towards me thru cuddling, hugging, and kissing. But i was worried the answer may be ‘no’. His reply: ‘honestly, no’. My heart started racing, my chest felt pain, i had trouble breathing. He also would not always say ‘i love u too’ arnd the same time prd.

            A few wks later, he asked me ‘why do u love me?’ I thought this is strange, considering he seemed to avoid the ‘L’ word lately. Regardless, i was ecstatic! I thought he may start using the ‘L’ word consistently again. I was wrong.

            Later, i realized, it was the time he found a brand new niss. She must have asked him what his good qualities r, or something like that, and he most likely repeated what i told him.

            So yes, i do think they repeat sentiments their previous supply has given them. 😖

          3. Dickforlong says:

            Wow Jenna…

            Can I relate. I remember those moments so well. My heart beating out of my chest. No wonder they ask us why we love them… They ignore us, abandon us, cheat on us. And after everything he did I sat there tongue hanging out panting like a well trained dog hoping he’d pat me on the head.

            Shit no wonder he was amazed I loved him.

        2. K says:

          You make complete sense. And my ex is a mid-ranger like yours and they can’t own their narcissism because of their defence mechanisms, but we can change our behavior. And, I completely understand the danger and addiction of lovesex, all too well. That will take some time to recover from. It is amazing that we can see what they are, but they can’t. Your consult with HG will be excellent and I think he will be able to really help you. Although it isn’t my consult, I am looking forward to it for your benefit. Sorry for the hell your MR is putting you through. It is upsetting to read.

      17. gabbanzobean says:

        Dr HQ,
        I wanted to reply to you with my reply to K but I already sent it and realized I did not reply to you….the way they “express their love”. Yup! This is basically what my narc said in similar sentiments! It is how he expresses himself. Just another reminder that I am no different or special than anyone else he has had I guess. And because they do not know what they are (see my other response to K below)….he has no clue he is seeking “fuel”. He seeks it though sex because that gives him the same feeling of being fueled. Then he says that is how he seeks/shows his affection. No wonder he is a whore. He really seems convinced that he just has a sexuality vice or weakness. Because he does know what he is?

        1. Jenna says:


          It’s like my ex says – he likes pple who make him laugh, and he doesn’t like pple who cry. In narc terms, i believe it means he prefers positive fuel over negative fuel.

          He also says he likes to ‘keep his mind occupied’ otherwise he feels an ‘inactiveness of mind.’ In narc terms, he likes fuel, otherwise he feels emptiness.

          It always goes back to the fuel. We know this thx to hg! Otherwise, i would have still been wondering.

          I know my ex is a mid-ranger, but with this somewhat sense of awareness, i wonder if he’s an upper mid-ranger. He’s also said to me ‘u will only see ur reflection’. This was after we broke up.

      18. gabbanzobean says:

        Such similarities between our narcs. Mine used to go back and forth with removing and then re-adding the “I love you” from and to his vocabulary. He would on occasion, replace it with “I care for you” or “I care about you”. Within the word “care” he would say “as a friend” or “as a ‘fellow human being’…”)…geeze he could have just saved me the hurt from the get-go and referred to me as an “appliance”. And finally last week it was “I do NOT love you”. I am sure it will just repeat itself IF he talks to me again, (doubt he will the way we left things last week). Right now I have not reached out. Anyway, your reply to DFL made me recall how he would go back and forth with the “I love you” stuff. Either re-wording it, removing it, etc. A few times he told me he could never be in love with anyone anymore since he was in love with my predecessor DLS and it “ruined his life”. I wonder if he tells the other DLS(s) the same line about me. Or tells them I am crazy (like he did with my predecessor)….or “we never spoke again” and then later on “oh we still talk”.

        I wrote him something once. It was called “50 Reasons Why I Love You”. And while 10 of them were naughty, the other 40 were not. He read it and said “wow this is amazing. And overwhelming”. Then it was pitying “I do not deserve this. I do not deserve you. You are too good to me”… I guess that goes back to the “inklings of truth they spew” doesn’t it? SIGH.

        1. ANK says:


          Narchole use to tell me how much he adored me, how he couldn’t wait to see me, be with me. And then it changed to I can’t give you what you want, you deserve better, etc. etc.

          The “I love yous, I care about yous” are to keep you, to keep you living in hope, and if you have hope you give more emotionally, you hope that if you invest yourself and your emotions that you will get some return on your investment, that he will see how much you love him etc. With his words he really he is just buttering you up to get what he wants, and once he’s had his fill and is sated he tosses you aside. Till the next time when he will say whatever it takes to butter you up again so that he can feed off you again. And so the merry-go-round continues. You need to get off this ride.

          1. K says:

            Confusion and hope keep you in situ. That is what the narcissist counts on. It is time to get off that ride, indeed.

          2. Jenna says:

            Hi ANK,

            Wise words.

            I noticed u clapped ur hands for being british, if i recall correctly?

            If so, when i read ur post, for some reason, i was reading it w a british accent and ‘pretending’ it was frm one of hg’s ex’s, just to get a feel of what hg’s ex might feel w all that malignant behavior of his. As soon as i reached the part “…I can’t give you what you want, you deserve better… ” my british accent stopped, becoz i knew hg wud likely not use such a pity play type manipulation. 😄
            Btw, i’m not trying to make light of what u’ve been thru. I’ve been there myself. But after being on this blog for over a yr, i’ve come to laugh (w a heavy heart) at some of the pity plays.

          3. ANK says:

            Lol, not at all Jenna.

            Yes I’m British.

            It does make you laugh reading some of the posts and how pathetic some of the narcs really are.

            We’ve all been through the mill to varying extents at the hands of narcissists and some on here have endured so much, I am humbled reading about their experiences.

          4. gabbanzobean says:

            I got the “I cannot give you what you want” line too. But after that it was always, “But I will give you what I CAN”….

            I bet if we compared Narc hole to Piano recital at church I bet they’d have spewed all the same crap!

        2. Jenna says:


          Mr. Piano jerk: ‘i care for u as a fellow human being’
          Omg! Lollllll! What a total joke!

          Regarding the 50 reasons why u love him, and him saying he doesn’t deserve it… exactly!!! He WAS telling the truth for once!

          Mine used to do something similar. I once asked him ‘what do u feel for me?’ His reply: ‘i feel for u.’ I didn’t know whether to be happy that he ‘feels for me’, or sad because it sounded like he was just repeating what i was saying.

          Regarding the love quotes, frm memory, it followed a sequence something like this:

          me: i love u
          Him: i love u MORE
          (*he emphasized the word ‘more’; he was on top of me, clothed, looking into my eyes while stroking my hair*)

          Him: we shouldn’t be doing this, i love u like a sister
          (*a few wks after we had sex. He thinks he’ll go to hell if he has pre-marital sex*)

          Him: i love everybody

          Him: love is unconditional. It does not require marriage or sex
          (*a few wks after having multiple incidents of passionate non penetrative sex*)

          Him: i love u more than anyone in this world right now
          (*the day following an argument*)

          me: i love u
          him: i love u too

          after making out (but no sex) the following convo took place.

          me: i love u (*i use a slow downward head tilt w one eyebrow lifted meaning i am waiting for a reply*)

          him: just have funnnn (*he prolongs the word ‘fun’)

          me: what? But… i thought…

          him: ohhh no… now it’s gonna be a big… (*he meant big argument i think*)

          Me: it’s ok, it’s ok, i know u love me… but… u just don’t like expressing it sometimes… uh, I won’t make a big deal abt it… don’t worry…

          Me (approx 2 hrs later via txt): i just wanted to make sure ur fine. I’m fine. See? I’m not making a big deal abt this morning. I understand u. I’m not worried at all so pls don’t worry. Hope u have a great day!

          This was to avoid him withdrawing for a few days and becoz i thought to myself, of course he loves me. Why else wud he make out w me? Usually i would have argued or questioned him, but this time i would not.

          A few months later, i escaped.

          Him: i love nobody

          For those who have not read my posts, he hoovered, i finally caved, we are text only long distance friends now. He alologized repeatedly (cognitive empathy and facade management). He is now kind, and i am guarded and not emotionally invested (or at least try not to be lol).

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Let’s be frank Jenna, you remain emotionally invested. Remember that.

          2. Jenna says:

            Hi hg,

            I meant i am not emotionally invested when i interact w him, ie. when he texts me. I should have been more specific. Our conversations are very ordinary, almost dull. I do not ask him questions anymore regarding new gf’s or where he goes. I don’t wanna know.

            But i will always have a certain love in my heart for him☹️

            Does that make me still emotionally invested? I think i answered my own question, and the answer is yes. Shoot!

            Btw, if ur ipps gave u a slow downward head tilt w one eyebrow lifted meaning she is waiting for a reply, what wud u do? I assume if it is after the golden prd, u wud use it to devalue her, and probably not reply at all? A present silent treatment maybe?

          3. HG Tudor says:

            You are heavily emotionally invested.

            I would think she was having a stroke.

          4. Jenna says:

            ‘Heavily emotionally invested’ – i don’t like the sound of that, but if that’s what it is, then that’s what it is. Damn!

            Hg, do i get some credit for not initiating the text, for replying late when he does text, for being the first one to say ‘i gotta go now’, for not asking abt his gf’s, his whereabouts etc.? That is a change frm last yr.
            Yes, my heart will always have a type of love for him, and i do miss him on some days (not all). But at least i control my actions, and as u know, i do not meet him.

            Wud u say i am less emotionally invested than i was last yr? I feel i am.

            Stroke comment – lolll!!!

          5. Dickforlong says:

            I almost choked on my coffee this morning…. The stroke comment is very funny.

          6. K says:

            I laughed at that, too. A stroke, never a dull moment here.

          7. NarcAngel says:

            Not only the most informative blog but the most entertaining.

          8. K says:

            Did you see HG’s comment to 12345 on A Sense of Guilt:

            HG Tudor
            NOVEMBER 8, 2017 AT 10:25 PM
            Understandable 12345, but no trading, nothing personal. You can of course look to join the dark side, I am just processing Sniglet’s application.

            I was LMAO after reading that.

          9. NarcAngel says:

            Can you imagine that interview? Hmm…what to wear…what to wear……

            Best to choose something that hints to your assets but leaves a lot to his imagination. A clean and natural look with minimal makeup. No overpowering scents-just a cleanliness that draws him closer, which includes hair (loose and touchable with no heavy sprays or stiffness) Nails buffed or with a lighter color applied. Heels, and a bag that does not look like a carry-on. Minimal jewellery (wedding ring optional).

            Oh dont forget the dazzling smile (that hides the fact that youre actually baring your canines). Also have a softness to your eyes that absorbs his mesmerizing gaze and allows him to download your data.

            These steps should grant you his audience and enough time to demonstrate your facade management skills and attest to your suitability for a position. If you succumb however to his considerable charms the floor will open up beneath you and the interview (and any chance at further infiltrating the dark chambers of the brethren) will be over. Your short drop will find you on another floor where positions such as IPPS, IPSS, and DLS are being auditioned. Just follow the golden corridor…………

          10. K says:

            I believe that I read that HG likes a clean look, perhaps, it is all the better to sully. And if Sniglet does get an interview, I wish her the best of luck. All I have to say is: better she than I.

          11. Jenna says:

            Hg, DFL, k, narcangel,

            Like k said, this place is the best. We have live narc action to deter, we have a witty comedian w a malignant attitude -hg. It’s better than tv or the movies!

            Hg, to be a little more clear, my head tilt wasn’t directly downwards. It was forwards, slightly to the left, w a downward angle, and a raised eyebrow, waiting for an answer. Do u know what i mean? After u mentioned stroke, i realized that a completely downward tilt of the head wud appear like that, and it made me lol! Pls do tell what u might say to ur ipps. I am enjoying this. To save u the time typing, i will make a guess.

            Ipps: i love u

            Ipps: head tilt as described, waiting for an answer

            Hg: er… r u ok?

            Someone call an ambulance!

            My friend (*deval by calling her friend instead of gf*) is having a stroke.
            Unlock and give me ur cell phone.

            I can’t er… find mine. I need to call 911. (*hg takes the opportunity to look quickly at her apps*).

            Quickly now, no time to waste. I also have to get somewhere soon (*another slight deval*)

            Hg, Is this anything close to correct?!

          12. K says:

            jenna, Hg, DFL, narcangel,

            This blog is witty and chock-full of narc action; honestly, it is the best NPD site on the net. jenna I really liked this line below, great job!

            I can’t er… find mine. I need to call 911. (*hg takes the opportunity to look quickly at her apps*).

          13. Dickforlong says:

            I laugh hysterically at how pathetic I was… Honestly, as painful as it all was and still is i see the relationship as a long Laurel and Hardy skit. The relationship consisted of Dick for long declaring his need for no one ESPECIALLY ME. And me declaring my need for others ESPECIALLY HIM.

            He NEVER said he loved me. We never referred to sex as “making love”. Even i couldn’t say “making love”. That term gives me the willies… Still does. For me it’s contrived and an unnecessary label.

            If I have to ask someone if they love me then I already know they don’t – and I want them to convince me otherwise.

          14. Gabrielle says:

            Your narc and mine really do have a lot of similarities with the way they toss around the word “love”. They don’t mean it. They don’t even know what the hell it is!

            The back-and-forth with him that you just shared with me reminds me of the following back-and-forth I’ve had with him:

            “I love my wife”…. no you don’t or you wouldn’t be having sex with me!
            Oh but having sex is how I express my affection!!! I see nothing wrong with that as long as it does not infringe upon my marriage.

            Then…. oh my god my guilt is killing me, we can not have sex again I can’t do this anymore!!!!!! The guilt is making me insane. Blah blah pity pity pity blah blah blah!! 🙄

            Lather. Rinse. Repeat. Smash a brick on the piano and dismiss the church congregation.

            I’m jealous that he is talking to you. I’ve been getting a silent treatment since my “correcting the devaluation” last week.

      19. gabbanzobean says:

        K, Narc Angel, Narc Affair, Jenna, HQ, DFL, anyone else I forgot….
        Going back briefly to the whore/hooker thing. At least they get PAID money and then can walk away and we give it all for free…..yup proverbial nail right on the head there…

        Looking back to the fuel filled fight my MR and I had last week not once did he ever reply to me tipping him off that I knew of his sex/hook up web site profiles….NOT ONCE. It was like as if I never even mentioned it. I did not get a “that isn’t me” or “why the fuck did you Google me you bitch” or “yeah what’s it to you?” …. or even “gee I do not use those anymore, I am really going to do the right thing and be faithful to my wife”….no acceptance but no denial either. Just…non-acknowledgement of it. I wanted to mention it again but was nervous to make the nastiness worse. Instead I just got… “you are crazy, you need therapy, I am not what you think I am…” …I guess the last one “I am not what you think I am” was likely an indirect reply to me uncovering his nasty dirt online, even if it was not directly acknowledged.

        Hook up profiles on a website vs. paying off a hooker. Similar I suppose. He scours websites for people just looking for sex. But unlike a hooker performing a service, no payment is needed for people who just want to hook up, well non narcs anyway who are just looking for a fun time and nothing more. BUT….and here is what gets me. THAT CONTRADICTS all the shit he then said about “I have sex frequently, this is how I express my affection”….affection for a total stranger? HQ I know you broke down and analyzed what he said “you are new and shiny toy, I like the way you react to me fucking you” etc. but what is so shiny about a stranger wanting to hook up, even if all they want is sex and nothing else? It just contradicts that whole “affection” excuse. I know they are the masters of contradicting themselves. And while they do not know what they are don’t some of them have enough cognitive function to realize they constantly contradict themselves even IF they’ll never admit to it?

        I really hope my rambling has made sense here.

    4. narc affair says:

      Hi gabs…i totally agree with Dr. Harleens replies to you. He is not worth your time. He gives you so very little. The fact he called you a fling and youve stayed sends him a powerful message that a) you have very low self esteem and b) he can pretty much do anything and youll be there when he wants to get a tiny shot of ego boost. Hes wiping his dirty feet on you like a doormat 🙁 Hes not even teying to maintain the facade at all. The fact he doesnt answer your texts also sends the message you are not anywhere a priority in his life.
      Whats got you hooked on him? Is it validation? Attraction?
      You put him on such a pedestal but hes treated you like nothing. You are something! Youre a special woman who has a lot to offer the right guy. You have a future ahead of you that could be so rich and full but you have to decide to want that. This guy can offer you nothing but to stomp all over you and diminish your self worth further. When you feel attraction for him just think on how hes treated you and how ugly that it. Break the tie thats binding you to him. You deserve so much more than this abuser in your life who treats you like a big zero 🙁

      1. narc affair says:

        Another thing to consider is the time youve spent waiting for this narc. Time is something you can never get back. I have a good friend who wasted years pinning over her narc. She missed out on having childre. Something she always wanted to be is a mother. She has huge regrets over this. As you wait and pour energy into this guy youll never have anything with theres missed oportunities with other people you wont have the chance to explore. One thing for sure is this wont last but are you willing to waste years waiting til it ends? You will never get that time back. Itll be gone. Just something to consider. Time is very precious were only here for so long.

      2. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:



      3. gabbanzobean says:

        Right where he wants me.

        One of his texts was: “You will end up forcing the cutting of this cord here” (referring to our relationship) “Because you want it in a way that it will never be”

        Then he says:

        “But I am not cutting this cord today”

        Okay it went from him telling me what I will do vs him saying what he won’t do.

        So he wants me gone but does not want me gone.

        This makes no sense.

        I am so ready to book a consult and just send the entire fucking text history of the last 2 days to HG and ask him to translate it in a way where I can understand it.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          GZB, you are drowning in the emotional sea at present. Organise a consult and I will provide you with the harsh reality of what is happening so you can build that logic vessel instead of drowning.

          1. Gabrielle says:

            Oh don’t worry I’ll be sending payment before the weekend for an email consult. I was considering what three questions to ask but I think now I am just going to have to email you the entire chain of contradictory text messages of confusing fuckery and ask you to decode it all for me.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            I’m never worried.

          3. Overthinker says:

            If we do an email consult I gather we ask three questions but how much info can we send can we do a background on the situation send texts photos Facebook profiles etc lol what I’m trying to ask how much are u willing to read before we ask the three questions or would u prefer to ask us what relevant info u need ? I desperately need answers before I move on for good but I’m also terrified of what u will say

          4. HG Tudor says:

            It is 1000 words background and 4 questions. If you need to provide more/ask more then a further consultation is required.

      4. Roju says:

        Thank you Dr HQ and NA, those replies were for Gabs, but they meant a lot to me.

      5. ava101 says:

        GZB, it is not about if he wants a relationship with you or not. He does want one or he wouldn’t be writing to you.

        He is telling you in plain words “either you do as he wants” and “he is not to be held accountable for anything” and it is all your fault, that it is not working and that he has to behave as he does (which it is not of course). He does not want to cut any cord, he wants you under his control, he wants to do as he pleases, and he wants to make you to not object.
        He is blame shifting and manipulating you.

        But why don’t you cut the cord?

        1. HG Tudor says:


      6. Gabrielle says:

        Wait Dr HQ…. that isn’t just a screen name? You’re actually a psychologist?!!?!

        Good grief you must be the best psychologist that ever existed. As much as I am hurting and as in as much pain as I am right now your commentary is “utterly” witty and hilarious. Utterly used for emphasis. ❤️

      7. narc affair says:

        Dr. Harleen…((hugs)) to you too and ty for your posts they really help so much!! 💓

      8. narc affair says:

        Hi roju…yw and im glad it helped. Im still on this learning journey but it feels good to help others dealing with narc abuse. It makes a bad situation be for something.

      9. Noname says:

        Very very wise words. Very very wise advices, but…in vain. Gabrielle “blocks” them.

        You are into him too much.
        He “lives” in your heart and your blood. He is your air. You can get rid of him only if he “dies” inside of you.

        You have two choices:
        1. To “kill” him logically. I see you don’t have enough strength to do it now, but you can gain it. You have to reach the “enough is enough” internal state logically first and then to “seize the power” and “kill” him. Freedom.

        2. To live through your story to the imminent disastrous end. To hit the bottom. Final and deep realization. Nothing to lose. Nowhere to go. Alone. Lonely. Empty. But…free from him.

        As I can see, you are following the second scenario. It is very hard, painful and dangerous way. You have to have the ENORMOUS amount of internal strength to SURVIVE it, not to lose your identity, to heal yourself and continue to live NORMALLY after it. Tell me, do you have such level of strength to do it? I’m sorry to say it, Gabrielle, but no, you don’t. You chose the wrong way.

        Follow the first scenario. It is a single possible and right way to you. Consult with Tudor and read, read, read.

        REALIZE and ACCEPT the knowledge, that your man is a WRONG man to you. He is KILLING you.

        The RIGHT man never does it to his woman. On the contrary, he does everything in his power to maintain her “life”. He protects her, he cherishes her, he makes her happy. He NEVER manipulates and hurts her.

        And your man does exactly opposite to you. I feel your PAIN in every your comment. You are dying slowly, girl.

        Wake up and fight. For you life. For your freedom. For your happiness.

        Take my sincerest and best wishes, and big big hug to you.

        1. Windstorm2 says:

          Very accurate observations and well said! There are two paths before her. Both end in pain without the narc, but one is much longer and much more painful and filled with abuse. And that long, abuse-filled path is the one she’s on now.

      10. Catherine says:

        I couldn’t agree more narc affair, the time, the precious time wasted on these men that will never make us happy, and all the opportunities missed out on while toiling away with someone who will never love us, be interested in who we really are or connect in any true sense. I spent more than three years with my narc and although it was a lesson learned for me, I still see those years as lost. There’s no repeat button to press for time gone by, it’s all about making each day count.

      11. Nuit Étoilée says:

        Dear Gabs, from on DLS to another..

        It will only get worse…

        It is addiction.. you have to find something to distract you from that Ever Presence.. you will be amazed at how much relief you will feel if you can just get through 24hrs without him completely taking over every second of your thoughts..

        You know deep inside you’re getting nothing from this.. he’s giving nothing.. I know that hurts… but you are as everyone is saying – soooooo much better than this.

        I say thank you to all these gorgeous supportive texts, and I speak from experience – I highly recommend a consultation w HG..

        We’re all rooting for you 😊

      12. jenna says:

        Gabs, doc, k, narcaffair, debbiewolf, and anyone else i forgot to mention,

        Narc affair abt gab’s narc: “.., who treats you like a big zero”
        Correct. In fact, he is the BIG ZERO.

        I have not directly stated it, because when u initially came back to the blog following ur date w him, u felt embarrassed for giving in to him. I wanted u to be receptive to our support. By us criticizing him, i felt u would be less likely to accept our support.

        So i just pointed out the reality of his behavior, and left the decision to u, becoz i know u r in love w him. When one is in love, nothing anybody says can change ur feelings. But i think this is a good strategy adopted here by doc, narcaffair, k, debbie – to remind u how special YOU are.

        I see a cute, humourous young lady full of life. I see a patient lady who is willing to persevere. I see an extremely honest, somewhat naive young lady. You have a particular innocence abt u. I want u to find someone who can truly appreciate these great qualities.

        Mr. Piano at church is a loser, a big zero, a sexual pervert, and a contradictorian. He has no idea what he wants.

        I know what it is u seek frm him. U feel extremely loved by him in the bedrm. I’ve been there. Most of us have been there. But try to remember what ajo said – that w non-narcs, u will feel loved even OUTSIDE the bedrm, not just in the bedrm. And since bedrm time is a small percentage of time spent in a relationship, u will only feel loved for that small percentage of time. The rest of the time, u will feel confused, sad, unsure, insecure etc.

        Pls consider telling him off regarding the websites and the contradictory behavior. I did that w my ex. Hg will say no fuel is better. But this guy, being a cowardly mid-ranger, doesn’t seem to like being challenged, and i feel it will wound him considerably.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You will not wound him GZB if you try to tell him off because you are in a position at present whereby all you will do is provide Challenge Fuel. Therefore, engaging with him by ‘telling him off’ will be ineffective and counter productive and therefore is bad advice.

          1. K says:

            This blog is smoking hot! And this is where all the action is! And all these people have great advice. Narc action in real time is an awesome learning experience.

            Jenna, doc, narcaffair, debbiewolf, Nuit Étoilée, WS2, Noname, Catherine, ava101, Roju, Freedom45 and HG.

            I love this place. Thanks everyone!

          2. jenna says:

            Hi k,

            I agree. I love this blog where we can vent abt our feelings.

            I had not read all the comments b4. So i would like to address my previous comment in addition to k, narcaffair, debbiewolf, gabs, and doc, also to Roju, ava, noname, windstorm, catherine, nuit etoilee, tappan zee, freedom45, abrokenwing, and others, as k stated.

          3. DebbieWolf says:



          4. K says:

            I just read the comments from TZ, ANK, Sniglet, ABW and Doc. They are excellent, some hard truths mixed with elements of humor.

            Thanks for taking one for the team, Doc!
            Nuit Étoilée, When I saw your name I thought of “The Starry Night” by van Gogh. Beautiful.
            Sniglet, you made me laugh with “penis cozy” Thank you!

      13. jenna says:

        Thx for clarifying hg.

        One question: why was my ex narc so wounded when i criticized him abt the websites he registered for?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Because you offended his sense of entitlement and lack of accountability.

          1. jenna says:

            Ty hg.

            Then why would gabs’ narc not be wounded if she brings up the websites again?

          2. HG Tudor says:

            See the answer already given.

      14. Gabrielle says:

        Your descriptive paragraph of me is surprisingly accurate. My apologies for not answering everyone individually. I’m hurting so much right now but I appreciate all of your advice, even if I’m just too stupid to follow it right now. 😔😢

        I hope to get some answers from my consult with HG within a few days.

        1. Nuit Étoilée says:


          I was there, too.. not that long ago.. I knew I needed to leave it, that it wasn’t good for me – trying to do Dr HQ’s exercise & not being able to find anything good I was gaining.. and not understanding myself – then why was it so hard to walk away? Acknowledging the addiction helped for me…

          Don’t call yourself stupid – as HG says, you were targeted, hunted – this is not your fault.

          K – right back atcha Sister! 😊

          I’m appreciative of everyone’s comments, too.

          The thing that stands out to me is – EVERYONE is saying due to narc behaviour, the difficult thing is to PICK JUST ONE.. bc they’re ALWAYS manipulating.. I didn’t even know what that meant until Intro to NARC 101.. How I wish I’d never been forced to take this class…

          Thank you, HG for offering the answers to the final exam 😉

        2. jenna says:

          HG and gabs,

          I have 3 yrs of text msgs i would love for hg to decode as well. Is this a service u offer? I mean, line by line decoding, every single word that he has texted made clear. But how would i send it to u? I cannot take screenshots of all of them. There would be thousands. I tried to email it to myself as that was an option, but it just ended up crashing.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            I can decipher them yes but if there are thousands it would cost you a significant sum of money to do that. If you wanted to do it you would be better off identifying selected exchanges. Also keep in mind why you want to decipher them.

          2. jenna says:

            Ur right, maybe i do not need to decipher them. I appreciate ur honesty. This shows that u truly want to help us, and that overrides ur desire for profit. Omg my respect for u has just increased like a billion times.

            Also. I received a text frm him in the middle of the night last nite, after almost 5 wks. I know, i know, i shud block him. But as u know, we decided to remain long distance friends since he is kind now (extended golden prd due to infrequent text only contact). Regardless, I’m proud of myself for not having contacted him in the last 5 wks tho i was missing him.

            Ty hg.

          3. Windstorm2 says:

            Since my relationship with my Moron was almost entirely by WhatsApp and email and I wanted a record to evaluate over time, what I did was to buy an air printer. Then I took pics of each page of messages and printed them all off chronologically from my phone. I have an entire years worth in chronological order – 3000 pages worth – in big 3 ring binders. Any I feel are important since, I just take a pic of it and leave it in my phone.

            This did cost a ton in printer, ink, paper and time, but was very therapeutic for me. After getting my paper record established, I have never felt a need to revisit it (all that time printing, copying and organizing let me get things straight in my mind). But it is all organized and filed if I ever want to look back over it.

            As far as having someone else, like HG, read over all your messages to evaluate them it is almost certainly impractical. While I did go over many sections with one of my narc friends and my therapist (non-narc friends were useless), there were just too many for anyone to be willing to read. I didn’t even want to read them all again!

            Everyone who knew I printed and kept all this thought it was stupid. They all thought I should do one of HGs type exorcisms, but that is just not me. I wanted to be able to think it all thru and vanquish any turmoil our “relationship” made in my life by working thru it with logical thought. It’s a much longer road to recovery, but much more in keeping with my self-concept.

            We are all of us different, despite our many similarities. Sometimes what seems obvious to another may not work for us, because we are not at the same place in our thinking or our recovery as they feel we should be. I took one of my favorite bits of wisdom from one of my favorite narcs – my father, “Listen to every fools advice, then make up your own mind.” In the end, that always works best for me.

      15. Overthinker says:

        OK thanks

      16. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        Haha… yes…I’m the real deal baby! Lol!
        I write PsyD next to the harleen name because I don’t want to misrepresent myself (the Harley Quinn in suicide squad and the comics is an MD – medical doctor). As you know I dont participate on this forum as a mental health professional (giving therapy etc) because that would be unethical. I do however provide information. That is why Indy and I have been so on top of people for spreading misinformation. I even correct myself if I didn’t explain something properly or messed up a fact due to multitasking lmao (something I’ve learned not to do while posting at this point lol).

        I’m am eclectic and use different techniques from various schools of psychology depending on the presenting problem, personality,and cognitive level of the individual. You are picking up on my more humanistic/existential core which is why I can be so entertaining at times I guess lmao – I keep it 100 percent real.

        Carl Rogers is life lmao! 🤓
        (He’s a humanist)

      17. Catherine says:


        I just want to tell you how brave you are for sharing your story here, still being entangled with him and hurting so bad.

        I didn’t share at all when I was with my narc. Oh, I knew things were terribly bad of course, I woke up each and every morning with emotional pain, worry and obsession, spending all my time trying to figure out what was happening and what he meant by every word and every gesture; but to my friends and most of all to my best friend, my sister, I pretended all was well. Sometimes I shared what I thought then was a small harmless anecdote and the reactions to those stories made me stay quiet even more, choosing silence. I was ashamed, I defended his behaviour, but most of all I was addicted to him, and I knew that if I told the truth people close to me would not accept my situation and would try to remove me from it.

        It takes so much courage to tell your story. So you’re a brave woman, on your way to recovery, peace of mind and freedom already! Sharing is healing. And this is a safe environment to do so.

        Hugs to you!

      18. Nuit Étoilée says:

        K, just seeing your comment on my name – nearly missed it!

        That’s what I was thinking of, too.

        Let’s stand in front of it together a moment… It is beautiful.. the peaceful night scene.. the sky, like that – radiating many colors.. but there is chaos, too.. swirling, dizzying lights.. one can get lost in contemplation..

        Not unlike entanglement w a narc, I thought.. a beautiful, maddening chaos.. where we can lose ourselves..

      19. Yolo says:

        I am still stuck on he’s 33 and sex is only 10 minutes. I imagined this person to be over 50 based on description especially the church piano guy. Wow, he’s definetly running game his age explains some of the major disrespect. I don’t think he’s a mid, maybe an upper lesser.

        I am with Narc Angel at least the whore is getting what she expects which is payment. We are cheated. Wow 10 minutes and 33 years old. Ugh..

      20. gabbanzobean says:

        I think there were a few times when the main act itself was a little longer than 10 minutes. 10 minutes was about the average time post-foreplay though. The swift climaxes were attributed to the fact I was just so gosh darn hot and he could not hold it back (insert eye roll emoji here). I am not sure if he was all about getting himself off quickly. I mean the foreplay leading up to it lasted a decent amount of time at times (then there were other times we just pulled each other’s clothes off like animals). He wanted me to boss him around and tell him what to do, be in control, etc. He did whatever I asked, LOL. My only complaint, if any, was the swift climaxes. He was not spectacular but he was not awful in bed either. Then again it was more emotionally heightened for me anyway. This will sound insane but the way he looked at me while he was doing what he was doing rather than JUST what he was doing caused it for me if you know what I mean. However, for someone who claims he’s had 40+ people, you’d think he’d have a better “lasting” game if you catch my drift.

        Of course looking back on it now he triangulated me with his wife. When he was having sex with her it took him a very long time to climax. So he says. When I asked why he blamed his guilt. Guilt for always cheating on her. How the hell does that make any sense? He feels guilt for cheating on her so it takes him a long time with her yet with me it does not? If guilt is going to mess you up sexually why would one person get swifter climaxes and the other get less swifter climaxes?

        Or is this just narc opposite day where none of it is real anyway. Did I just answer my own fucking question? (pun not intended)

        1. NarcAngel says:


          Narcs dont feel guilt but they do lie, and hes lying to you. Things will not change for you until you can grasp that concept. There is no puzzle.

        2. Mrs Linton says:

          Hello Gab it sounds like a lot of word salad to me. Plus he wants you to picture them together to torture you and so you will compete. He wants to be an enigma, whilst making it all about him. I find it a massive turn off when men want to be bossed about.”Wear your own trousers, and be a MAN”

    5. Sniglet says:


      Your situation is quite stirring. HG and some women here have clearly and wisely stated their position and I will not obsoletely reiterate their points. Have you ever pierced the possibility that this man’s wife may discover, track your location and confront you about the affair? In all probability you don’t know her very well, her beliefs on fidelity and marriage, her drive, mental health and other capabilities towards those who threaten her family unit. This man is certainly not leaving his family for you and what if he becomes hostile towards you for persisting too much? Let logic and dignity flourish and quit being his penis cozy. A consultation with HG is a good idea.

      1. Overthinker says:

        penis cozy u made my day

      2. Yolo says:

        This reminds me of an intervention. The women here are so kind patient and supportive. However, I must say prior comments appeared las though they were enabling the behavior.
        Hats off to Dr.Q for initiating this dialogue.

      3. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:



        I’m direct – sometimes you just gotta call it out. I wish everyone could hear my tone of voice so they can like hear how I come across. I’m very playful and even though I’m direct I’m not harsh if that makes any sense……

    6. ANK says:


      You said Next time we talk he will be back to “I love you, you are more than a fling”….

      It’s all manipulation – yanking your chain, keeping you attached.

      1. Roju says:

        K, thank you. Me too, I love this place so much. It feels like home. I’ve read this comment section over and over again- it’s encouraging, soothing and validating. I’ve saved all the responses to Gabs as a constant reminder. I’m grateful for you all.

        Noname, your comment is the absolute truth.

        Gabs, look fear in the eyes and defeat it. He’s sleeping well, eating well, breathing well and enjoying his life while you lie in excruciating pain. He knows you are in anguish and he’s relishing it. Return the favour. Cut contact suddenly and ignore him so hard that he will question his existence. Get on the path of also enjoying your own life.

        1. K says:

          One of the best things about this blog is the valuable knowledge you get from other people’s comments, and it is interesting to see how others are interacting with their narcissists in real time. I am grateful for it too.

    7. Yolo says:

      Gab ,

      Give all that love to your 3 children. Not sure if you have any girls but take the same advice you would give them if they were dealing with a married man that treated them like crap.

      Love yourself and those that love you. I would highly suggest if possible you seek DBT therapy. I have found it to be extremely helpful. Its a process that takes time but so worth it.

      Peace and Healing

  37. Catherine says:

    In my case it has definitely been the horrible silent treatments that I’ve been subjected to most of the time. My grandmother (who put me through most of the manipulative ways mentioned above) did them a lot (she was famous for breaking off all contact with people around her both in present ST’s for weeks at a time and in absent ones where she once managed to cut her son off for seven years!); they were also my mothers favourite way of punishing and showing me that all love comes with an insurmountable amount of control, and my ex of course nurtured his passive aggressive behaviour and used this technique frequently to control me.

    I couldn’t really decide which to choose from present or absent ST’s, but since all my three narcissists used both I chose present ones because in my formative years those were the ones I first got to know, even though I realise now that maybe the absent ones would have been a better choice since growing up. My ex did both but the absent ones were his favourites.

    I guess the passive aggressiveness runs in my family, and I was a very sensitive child that needed communication. Cutting me off like that I was made to feel miserable, confused, scared and it taught me the lessons of power and control well. I still remember the four year old that was me (and six, and twelve and sixteen for that matter) standing desperately afraid and hurting outside the closed and locked bathroom door, knocking, calling out to my mother, begging her to please, please, please come out and talk to me, and the absolute quiet within that bathroom that went on for hours at a time until she opened the door, walked past me without giving my teardrenched face a glance, and proceeded to not speak to me for maybe a week, looking the other way whenever I tried to talk to her. In the end I learned to beg for forgiveness for anything and everything, I was such an adept pupil early on that I was already crying and shouting out my excuses before she even reached that bathroom door. Of course that didn’t change the course of events. The pain had to be administered, the process of hurt and punishment had to run its course.

    I think I became insecure, clingy, needy, overly fearful of all kinds of abandonment from my childhood. I’ve all my life been a pleaser, scared of making any decisions or moves that could offend or hurt anyone else, not ever standing up for myself. And the love I learned of was a love that had a high price of pain and drama. A love that equaled control. So in some sense I guess it would be fair to say that I always have had this urge to control the person I love and letting my own condition thereby control me, subjecting myself to manipulative control as the only “true” way going about love. I actually handed the silent treatments corrosive effect on me on a silver platter to my ex, telling him about my abusive childhood, and he used it thoroughly and extensively, making me beg for forgiveness for any number of things I didn’t do.

    I would say that after the ST’s, projection would be my second choice of manipulation I’ve been subjected to.

    1. Lori says:

      Oh Catherine, I cry for you, and the little girl who just wanted to be loved and acknowledged. I’m so sorry you had to endure that ~ <3 (heart)

    2. K says:

      Sorry. That was sad to read. And it boiled my piss, too.

      1. Catherine says:

        Lori and K,

        Thank you for your kindness. I guess all of us nurse these kind of wounds or even worse here, and I find just talking about it, bringing it up here, to be profoundly healing. I never could put a name to the family “sickness” before, and after escaping that toxic environment I put all the distance I could between myself and my family, burying those dark, forbidden feelings of guilt and shame deep within. Then my journey put me in the arms of a man with the same disorder and now I’m finally facing what I went through. Good will come of it for all of us here hurting, I’m sure!

    3. gabbanzobean says:

      Catherine, you described about 80% of my childhood in regard to your 3rd and 4th paragraphs. I am thinking this made me ripe for the narc plucking. Ugh.

      1. Catherine says:


        I’m sad to hear it, it still amazes me everyday how similar we all are here, and I find it liberating to be able to connect to others who know exactly what I went through, it being part of their experiences as well. It eases pain, it brings knowledge and understanding to dark areas of my life, it enables me to finally start understanding what I’ve been through and why; I’m so grateful to HG and each and everyone!

        How do you relate to your childhood today? Do you have any contact or interaction with the past?

        I ran as far as I could, moved abroad, hid it deep in the trenches within, never giving it a chance to see the light of day. But it seems it always sneaks up on you when least expected. I fell completely and utterly in love. That’s what I did. And my whole world came tumbling down. I’m beginning to put words to what’s been wrong in my life, trying to understand my background, my narc, but most of all I guess I’m on a scary, but rewarding journey of discovering myself. It hurts so bad sometimes.

        I do hope that you manage to leave your narc behind, he will unfortunately never be the what you need and what you want in your life. They never are. But I feel your pain, I’ve been there, I know how hard it is. Wishing you strength and finding the true love you deserve.

      2. gabbanzobean says:

        I still keep in touch with my father, we are on good terms. Unfortunately he still enables my mother. He occasionally will put me in the middle (I am an only child) so I try to steer clear of that nonsense. They have a very codependent and dysfunctional relationship. I see my mother on occasion she is not “persona non grata” per se, but I try to avoid her whenever necessary.

        As far as my narc goes, I did (stupidly) share tidbits of my childhood with him but not very specifically. However due to his “amateur” psychological nature he loved to analyze me. He frequently told me I have abandonment issues, that I am always seeking attention and validation, through him. And one of the reasons he has not written me off is because he “feels sorry for me” and his “empathic nature prevents him from leaving me”. (insert eye-roll emoji here). I am not denying his observational analysis of me nor am I confirming it but it really was/is cruel how he loved to throw that in my face. He also used to say that I seek validation sexually through him for the same reason. One time I sarcastically said to him “so I suppose you are some kind of psychologist now?”….he said “no” but he was considering going back to school to pursue it someday. Good grief can you imagine him as a “doctor”? He would probably have sex with all of his patients. (insert another eye-roll emoji here).

        1. Windstorm2 says:

          If you dont mind, in what way does your dad enable your mom? Is she a narc? Alcoholic?

          1. gabbanzobean says:

            No, my mom was not an alcoholic. Ironically my father is the one with the addictive personality. Gambling and painkillers. My mom is just very mentally ill. What specific type of mental illness she has still remains a mystery as she has seen countless therapists, been on constantly changing countless medications and so on. We/she have been told everything from schizophrenia to bipolar to just plain psychosis, etc. I do not believe she is a narc as she does not really follow those patterns but she does have a few narc traits like giving silent treatments, being physically abusive (low end stuff like scratching and hair pulling) no boundary recognition nor accountability for her actions, blames others, projects at times, etc. and her perceptions of life and reality, memories, etc. are extremely distorted. She reflects upon my childhood with things she’s said or done which are not true. She actually believes them to be true. Not just in the way I was treated and raised but details of things, like memories or vacations we had as a family, that we did not have. It is like she has created an alternate reality for herself. And rather than tell her what is really going on my father is just kind of like fingers in his ears going “la la la cannot hear you”. My father is still married to her, lives with her, shares finances with her but they do not sleep in the same room and he has had multiple affairs. He is not a narc though that I know, the only narc trait is the affairs but he’s not looking for a relationship, just sex and from what I have heard he is upfront about it.

            Perhaps her narc like traits are from the mental illnesses I have no idea. Or even side effects from the medications. I do not really know what precisely is wrong with her and I do not think I will ever know. All I know is my upbringing was far from stable. My narc is not the first one to describe me as emotionally clingy, and constantly seeking affection, attention, validation, acceptance, assurance, etc. And of course highly emotional.

            As messed up as I feel I know it could always be worse and I am glad it is not. I have always suffered from some level of depression and anxiety but not debilitating enough where I needed medication (least not yet but the way it has been lately I may need to reassess that situation). Is that called “high functioning”?

            Sorry if that was long winded….I really had no specific answer to your question that would not go off into a tangent.

          2. Windstorm2 says:

            You can not possibly be too long winded for me! I’m always interested in learning about people who I care about, and that certainly includes you.

            That sounds so rough to have grown up with! I’ve always tried to stay away from meds myself. They have so many side effects and as you age and need other meds, they can really mess you up.

            I used to have a big problem with being clingy, too. I was always very fearful, too. I imagine we have a lot in common.

          3. Mrs Linton says:

            Hello Gab, I would very much like to help you with the little knowledge that I have, I am a Health professional though not as well qualified as some. Some therapists I know class psychoses as extreme narcissism just because of the detachment from reality, this can coincide with grandiosity. Severe mental illness presents as extreme self centredness and it is impossible for them to give of themselves to anyone. There is no conscious manipulation or cruelty as what is doled out will not be conscious
            Many children with parents that ill go into care which I am sure you already know. Your mother would have been incapable of giving you what you needed and my heart breaks for you for how you must have felt as a child. Children sense from a very young age whenever their parents are incapable,and they feel unsafe, and of course you would be needy if she never gave you why you needed. Your Narc is something that is forever out of reach like your own mother was and you are trying to win an old battle. There is some amazing inner child work you can do which effects the theta brainwaves on youtube and I do them regularly. There is much you can do to heal. I am so glad you are going for a consult so you can extricate this man out of your life. Then you can start thinking for yourself and giving yourself good care.

      3. Catherine says:


        It sounds really healthy that you try to steer clear of the dysfunction in your family. And as for sharing with your narc, I did too. I still berate myself for enabling him to abuse me that easily, it hardly took any work from his side to find out how to hurt me the most. Mine analysed me too. Or what he was really doing was telling me as an appliance what I felt, thought and how I acted, like the horrible bully he was, seizing power and control, not caring the least about what I did actually feel or think.

        Once when I was upset and totally in vain tried to explain my feelings of hurt to him he stated clearly that “I realise you do have feelings, and I guess you are entitled to have them, even though my life would be easier if you didn’t, but I don’t want to listen to how you feel, it’s of no concern to me..”

        Haha.. what a nightmare if he actually did become a “doctor”!

        1. Windstorm2 says:

          Ha, ha! That last quote sounds like something my exhusband would have said!

      4. Catherine says:


        That’s so sad about your parents, I really feel for you. As children we can’t fend for ourselves and life can mess us up so much. I’ve heard all my life too that I can be clingy and I certainly do feel that way. It’s like I grew up to be this emotionally terrified woman who hides the darkness and the pain within and can be difficult getting to know, I’ve heard that I from afar seem very distanced and independent, but those are just my walls I guess. Even though I enjoy being alone most of the time, when in a relationship I become needy and clingy. I feel like I have to control the relationship all the time, I’m desperately afraid of being hurt, being abandoned, and this urge to control ends up controlling me too, as it does with the narcissist I guess, but from different perspectives. And with my narc I knew I should’ve left, but I didn’t for a long time. That scares me. To know that I truly can’t stop myself until the bitter end.

        1. Windstorm2 says:

          Do you know the saying, “understanding the problem is half of the solution?” Understanding your mistakes and problems shouldn’t be a negative thing. It’s a positive thing because as you better understand them and yourself, you can change your life for the better.

      5. gabbanzobean says:

        I definitely do not doubt that!

      6. Overthinker says:

        I understand your childhood all too well my father was an alcoholic and my mother as I stated in another post was severely mentally ill having been locked in a state mental institution for 4 and a half years prior to getting married and having kids to this day I don’t know exactly what her illness is but if watch the original 1970s Carrie movie my mom was a cross between carries mother and the mom in the movie sybil

    4. narc affair says:

      Hi catherine…Im so sorry your mother and grandmother did that to you. It hurt reading this bc as a mother of two i could never ignore my children like that. My mother also issued silent treatments but hers were more sulking and slamming cupboard doors and they didnt last for hours. Thats terribly damaging 🙁 Did you suffer anxiety disorders as a child/adult? Its amazing how our childhood follows us thru life. Once we move out and have lives of our own its then we either learn about the dysfunction we went thru or we relive it via gravitating to the familiar and learn the hard way. Either way it doesnt go away til we understand it and carve a new way to live and be. Basically reinvent who we are as adults leaving the childs shell behind. Its not easy tho bc its so engrained in who we are what we experienced growing up. Its not impossible. You also learn to choose your family thru friendships that build you up and are healthy for you vs those that are like the dysfunction from the past. Its only thru making these changes you start to believe in who you are and those false ideas about your self worth being low are discarded.

      1. Windstorm2 says:

        Narc Affair
        You are so right about having to come to terms with, then move beyond our ideas of ourselves from our childhood!
        Yes, if we suffered abuse as children, we must reinvent ourselves as adults. That’s how we find our own personal power and can finally be happy and at peace!

      2. Catherine says:

        Hi narc affair, you’re so wise. I read and reread your words that ring so true to me.

      3. Catherine says:

        Hi again narc affair, I was writing a reply and seem to have published it before I was finished. What I wanted to say was that you are truly wise and I’m so sorry for what you’ve been through too.

        I have suffered anxiety disorders both as a child and as an adult. In childhood I guess it manifested itself mostly as being terrified all the time, having lots of insecurities, no boundaries, being hurt all the time, still being guarded and “difficult” with people, not trusting anyone and not trusting my feelings at all. Growing up I suffered from panic attacks in my twenties. And I never wanted to, or thought I needed to, address my past until I met my narc and fell in with my familiar ways again. Or rather, until our relationship exploded and I am now left with the pieces. Still he was a mean and violent blessing in disguise in that way.

        Did you as well suffer anxiety?

        I broke off contact with my abusive grandmother as soon as I was able to make my own decisions in life. I’ve never regretted that. She was a complete horror. But I’m still struggling with my mother. We don’t live close to each other so that makes it easier and I guess the bond between us is much stronger for me than the one I had with my grandmother. But something really telling is that from the day I met my narc I really struggled even more with my relationship with my mother, not knowing why then, but having difficulties enduring her at all. I guess having more than one narc in my life is more than I can take nowadays;)

        1. Windstorm2 says:

          Wow Catherine!
          Your description of how you felt as a child sounds exactly like me! From the scared all the time, insecure, no boundaries, panic attacks – all of it! Did you constantly fight off suicide, too? I’ve only gotten beyond that one in the last few years.

      4. narc affair says:

        Hi catherine and windstorm…ty for your replies. These things go thru my mind and from what ive learned but im still in the processes of implementing that change. Its a process. Ive come a long wa since meeting the narc and not knowing what narcissism even is let alone that id grown up around it.

        Catherine…i had wondered if youd had anxiety bc as a child enduring silent treatments that severe and having a mother disregard your emotional pain thatd be very traumatic! It ruins your very sense of security bc parents are our world as children and are expected to care and protect us.
        I have suffered anxiety and have had panic attacks but the panic attacks ive not had for at least 10 yrs.

      5. Catherine says:

        Hi Windstorm2 and narc affair, we all have so much in common here. The silent treatments my mother put me through were really extensive and the not knowing when they would suddenly start or when they would ever end made me so insecure. I tiptoed around all those years, trying to prevent them, but of course nothing ever helped. She saw everything as criticism, it could be the tone of my voice, it could be my not daring to speak, anything at all.

        Anxiety has been my companion since then. I seem to worry a lot and spend so much time even now trying to predict other people’s behaviour, taking full responsibility for ridiculous situations sometimes, because of the guilt and the shame that seem to be the inheritance of my family. But I was never suicidal actually. I ran away instead, closed myself down, stopped thinking about my childhood, stopped feeling so much. When I had panic attacks in my twenties I actually went to see a therapist a few times, but she immediately latched on to my relationship with my mother of course, and I wasn’t ready to speak or think about it, so it didn’t work out. And I haven’t had anxiety attacks for a long time me either.

        I feel for you Windstorm2, it must be horrible to fight off the thoughts of suicide. And narc affair, you will be successful in implementing the change when you’re ready, I’m sure of it.

        Hugs to both of you!

  38. DJ says:

    All of them, almost daily, except the smearing. Bizarrely he never even attempted the smearing when I escaped him but he is still trying the monthly hoover 1 year on so obviously believes he’s still in with a chance. When I deign to respond I play along until it stops being amusing then cut him dead. Cycles within cycles within cycles. It must get very tiring for you and your kind , HG

    1. DJ says:

      You need to put your clock back an hour. It’s 15.17

      1. Salome says:

        Dépends where…

  39. Stillstanding says:

    The present silent treatment was used constantly by my ex. My current narcissist is now carrying the torch of the present silent treatment. It reminds me every day of how truly lonely and alone I am. This more than anything underscores my powerlessness. I have gone from being connected and safe to being devalued and and sad beyond belief. The following quote helps me believe I can navigate the maze…

    Remember you are not alone; for there are those who have gone before you and the way is thoroughly known.

    Where you thought to find an abomination you will find a god;
    Where you thought to slay another you will slay yourself;
    And where you thought to be alone you will be with all the world.

    Thank you HG for helping show me the way out of the maze.

    1. Nuit Étoilée says:

      That’s beautiful, Stillstanding.

      I stand with you, as do many others reading this, I’m sure.

      Hang in there – you can do this 😊

  40. DebbieWolf says:

    Word Salad

    Though others too.
    Word salad because everything has to be fair in my view either in a disagreement or whatever… I like everything to be fair everything to be correct I like points to be made clearly and succinctly and have back-up and be evidenced … so that in an argument he would turn all that on its head so that I would be incensed.
    Not just an argument but in behaviours called out on he would incense me.

    I realise now how pointless putting the point over was because it’s like arguing with a drunk …I’ve said before, it cannot be done.

    1. DebbieWolf says:

      In fact…I physically screamed one time.

      I know! 👀😩

      Never have I done that. I still cannot believe I did.
      I cannot believe how I felt inside..like I would die on the spot. My body felt tight..taut..like something that would split open any minute.
      Horrible experience.

      I ended up seeing a doctor because I became ill shortly after that and had blood pressure that was a few degrees off the emergency room I had to be treated and I had 5 weeks off work.
      I went down..
      I totally fell figuratively speaking.
      At the same time I gave him his ring back and called off the engagement.
      Then I ended up with the initial grand hoover.

      Rinse lather repeat.
      This was three years ago.
      What a fiasco.👎💔😒🤕

      One of my sayings now is “that shalt not fall”
      Is it any wonder?
      That is why the wolf is my emblem now.
      Symbolising strength leadership and ability to fight.
      But at the same time not forgetting to be loving ..(as they are often gentle) going forward and not to forget I am part of a larger pack..wolves are loyal and protective too..good caretakers of their own. Able.
      They know how to go it alone if they must…. and ultimately are beautiful creatures.

      Some choose something that works mentally as a kind of mind focus symbol and I am very much an animal lover. Then I also found this site as well as others. But here…the brutal truth of a doer has allowed me to sit and rest a while..to take a breath!
      At the moment I am a lone wolf.
      Sharper senses this time..but alone right now.
      Sometimes weary but walking on…keeping going..
      What else but keeping going.

    2. K says:


      Don’t worry about the scream (Edvard Munch). One of my favorite paintings BTW. I exploded like Krakatoa and it was awesome. I probably gave him enough fuel for a year with that one argument.

      1. DebbieWolf says:

        Thanks K

        I often feel horrifed at the thought of actually screaming like the way I did that day.
        It really is awful that someone pushes another to whatever extreme and to hurt them all the time.
        To hurt someone else’s mind.
        You know, it is disgusting really.
        Life is short and there is just no need for all this. Just not on.
        It really is time to turn away.

        It is definately akin to an infection.
        Glad to take some medicine here..even though it tastes pretty bad..🤒🤕😷

  41. K says:

    My MMRN used triangulation the most: His mother, his Twink (IPSS), his i-Phone, work and the TV. My ULN used work, his car and his mother AND father.

  42. Goso Jo says:

    The hardest part of this poll was to choose the one that he used the most. After 30 years of marriage he became so adept at most all of these it was mind-boggling. I chose circular conversations because that was where he truly shined. Once he got going he would then implement one or more of the others on your list. Just thinking about it has my heart pounding, my head spinning and my anxiety ramping up. I attributed his behavior to his diagnosis of PTSD, bipolar, OCD and generalized anxiety disorder for many years. His doctor had also diagnosed him with NPD, which was the only one he vehemently denied. Haha, no surprise there! Within days of leaving him six months ago I came across you HG. With your help and Insight I have managed to stay NC for 4 months. You have truly saved my life and for that I will be forever in your debt. Thank you.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Great name! You are seizing the power and you are welcome.

  43. Laura Lampe says:

    Difficult to pick just one. Every one of them was frequently used.

  44. PhoenixRising says:

    It would be Gas Lighting from my Nmother, Present Silent Treatments from my Nstep-father, and Absent Silent Treatments from my Narc. Oh the joys of manipulation.

  45. Ting says:

    He would project towards me. I realize that now. All of the things he was doing, lying, cheating, I didn’t love him enough, etc. were blamed on me, but it was actually him doing it. When I would try to talk to him about these issues, or why he acted the way he did, these conversations never accomplished anything. I always wondered why he would never meet me in the middle, why nothing was ever settled between us, why those conversations left me exasperated and confused. We would go in circles and many times ended up being about me and not him. We never, in 30 years together, had make-up sex. I would eventually just walk away because I couldn’t take it any longer and life would go on. Never an I’m sorry or let’s talk about it or maybe we can compromise. I can almost laugh at it now, almost. I wish I had known. He would become infuriated if I pointed at the smallest flaw in him and the conversation would end up with what was wrong with me, my children, my family. Good grief, I wish I had known all of this long, long ago.

  46. Windstorm2 says:

    Certainly far and away mine was “made to feel guilty.” So many of the others were used to this purpose: gaslighting, contradiction, projection, blame-shifting. All of these were utilized to increase my feelings of guilt.

    Sometimes I’d get word salad and both silent treatments from my mother. But I learned to quickly write them off assuming she had no worthwhile argument.

    My exhusband only used word salad and circular conversations as a joke, to get on my nerves -you know, like “I know you are but what am I?” He got obvious enjoyment from such childish irritations. Things like hitting me with me own hand and saying, “Why are you hitting yourself, huh? Why are you hitting yourself?” But those were not serious things.

    He would sometimes use word salad to see how long it took me to catch on. That was a game as well. Once I recognized what he was doing, all I had to do was say, “what does that have to do with the price of eggs in China?” That was the phrase his family used to acknowledged they saw thru a manipulation. Then he would smile and change the subject, pleased both that he had tricked me and that I’d figured it out.

    For me the serious manipulations were the ones that tore down my self esteem by making me feel guilty – making me feel that I wasn’t the person I thought I was or tried so hard to be. I remember how transformational it was for me when my FIL explained what projection was and how my husband was using that, blame-shifting and gas-lighting on me. Up until then I’d always just worried that I was really a horrible person.

    1. K says:

      WS2, you were never a horrible person at all. You were wonderful from the moment you were born. Just like your grandchildren.

      1. Windstorm2 says:

        Thank you, that’s very sweet! It did take me a long time to realize that.
        I realize now that making me feel horrible about myself and trying to make me feel incompetent was just part of my mother’s way of trying to control me and keep me bound to her (boy was that doomed to failure!).
        Once our relationship became so antagonist and confrontational, she upped the insults to punish me. It took having children of my own to see how totally screwed up my relationship with her
        had been.

        My husband really scared me once. Whenever my mother would get her maddest at me she’d say, “I hope one day you have a daughter just like yourself!” One day I was ranting to my husband about this and how I’d never treat my daughter like I’d been treated. He just looked at me and said, “She is wrong. You’ll have a daughter just like her.” I worried about that for years! Thankfully God spared me that horror!

      2. K says:

        I know exactly what you mean when you wrote: It took having children of my own to see how totally screwed up my relationship with her had been. Our mother’s behaved horribly.

    2. loveyourselfnowgirl says:

      My narc brother used to do the same thing with my hand and make me hit myself…. so grade 9 and immature. OMG did they all go to the same school?!? That’s uncanny to me.

  47. Debs says:

    The silent treatment over txt – his specialality …. will read the txts and wait for me to get ‘angry’ in his opinion. Then answers within seconds ‘your anger knows no boundaries’.
    However i have learned to use his words and still say what i mean so the arrow of ‘look at your anger’ cannot be fired. And i choose exactly the time to fire the anger bullet using the most fitting words for the occasion. Light the touch paper then stand back … right back at you Mr R!!!!

  48. 12345 says:

    Absent silent treatments and triangulation. Mother taught me about triangulation so it was natural for me to think that was normal in all my relationships. That’s just what people did in relationships, right? It’s normal for people to let you know when someone else is better than you, right?

    Absent silent treatments are torture, however, from what I have heard about present silent treatments they are torture as well. I can’t imagine being with the person that “loves” me and having them literally not speak to me or acknowledge me at all for hours, days, weeks.

    At least with the absent silent treatment they can breeze back in with lame excuses as to why they just had to go be alone. But the present silent treatment is standing right in front of you. I would think the only way for them to breeze back in after that is to let you know that you are fully to blame for the silence.

    I’ve been told the absent silent treatment was my fault before but not nearly as much as the “my life is so hard, my job is so overwhelming, you have no idea what I go through, I’m so sorry I shut you out” bullshit.

  49. Findinglife11 says:

    Oops I didn’t see the little survey poll at the end and I just left a big narration about the sexual manipulation because that’s the words that I focused on in your Blog post. Honestly it’s hard to pick from all of those which one he used most. I think he spread it out all pretty evenly. I could literally check every single box with equal force and relevancy. You all are simply crazy. I look at that list and I think back to my time with him and it’s hard to imagine that I even survived all of that craziness. You all are a mess.

    1. Salome says:

      Tell us more please, Findinglife, what did you do?

  50. Findinglife11 says:

    for me The narcissist Made Me Do sexual acts I was not comfortable with. But by the time this happened in our relationship he had already wore me down so much (approx 6 years) and trained me to do what he wanted or there was a consequence that the soldier in me stood up tall and embraced it almost feeling like it was something that I wanted to do. But now that I’m out from the situation and I look back though I might have had a curiosity to it, which is certainly what he tapped into, it is not something I morally agreed with and would never ever have done without his manipulation. And now that I’m by myself I certainly do not do that anymore. It was simply his control and manipulation of me as to the reason why I did it in the first place despite my curiosity. And I even fooled myself to think it was fun at the time fully embracing it but deep down I felt empty and worthless and I knew my value was only in the sex. It was very confusing time for me. And now that I am by myself I don’t do that anymore as I know my worth is far more than he deemed it to be.
    It was a maddening time on so many levels.

    1. M. says:

      It has been written here too, they often start the sexual manipulations at a later stage in the relationship. It is as if they change your status, it comes out of the blue and you act as if you are hypnotised, not as yourself.

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