The Narcissistic Truths – No. 201


71 thoughts on “The Narcissistic Truths – No. 201

  1. Jenna says:

    Hg i wud like to retract everything becoz i am finding this v stressful.

    TZ, thank u for all ur comments. Pls feel free to comment whatever u please. U have the authority to make insensitive, hurtful comments, and to make incorrect assumptions and inferences.

    I should not post in further threads because i do not wish to be misinterpreted as mocking somebody else. Perhaps this blog is for pple who have anger or wish to go nc without any doubts.

    I will reply to pending comments. Then, i will depart. Will i maintain nc with my ex? Idk. Without the blog, i find it difficult.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I invite you to re-read this and ascertain if you can see how this looks to readers.

      1. jenna says:

        Well, that didn’t take too long did it? I cannot stay away frm the blog. I was missing hg and everyone so badly all morning, reading articles silently, wishing i could be here.

        Well, why can’t i be here? If being on the blog means pple will criticize my actions, so be it. I will reply as i see fit.

        Hg states this blog is for all pple and likes to point out the dynamic btwn pple. Well, i am one of those pple w a slightly different mind frame and i have every right to be here. I will try not to be intimidated by pple who are critical of me.

        Also, i have decided to completely retract my statement that judgements shud not be passed, becoz hg made me realize that in itself is a judgement. So go ahead and judge. Like i stated, i will reply as i see fit. I may judge u right back. Enuf of nice jenna. It’s getting me trampled in here. Well no more. I have had it. Judge away everyone!

        Hello hg!😊
        I really missed u.

        1. Kimi says:


          I was alarmed to first read you were leaving the blog, yet relieved you’d decided to stay! I did not care for that judgemental exchange and would hope that we all would be gentle with and supportive of each other. However, this is an open blog with many dynamics. So do what you need to do to protect yourself! I am delighted to know you will still participate as I do enjoy your sweet caring presence here!

        2. K says:

          Welcome back, Jenna!

          1. Jenna says:


            Ty. My absence was less than 12 hrs lol! I bet hg knew i wud be back. Perhaps, he thought it might take a day or two, not merely one night + one morning. 😁

            The longing became more and more pronounced as time moved fwd. I was reading articles and comments thinking to myself ‘she’s my friend, i wish i could comment’, ‘she’s my aquaintance, i’d like to comment, ‘she seems new, i want to welcome her’ etc.

            Then i felt so sad that i cannot be here, that pple will get mad at my posts.
            Then, that sadness gave me strength.
            It gave me strength to come back and claim my rightful space here, and i decided to deal w prblms in a different way. It will be a social experiment of sorts for me.

          2. K says:

            You belong here, at least until you get better. Since I have been here I have not gotten mad at your posts, and I try to learn and understand from all the comments posted; even the ones from Iseeyou. I am glad you found the strength to come back.

          3. Jenna says:

            Thx k.

      2. jenna says:

        Thx kimi. That means alot to me. I very much enjoy ur presence here as well.

    2. K says:

      Don’t depart. The blog is here for all people going through different stages of the narcissistic dynamic, including yourself. I do not think you are ready to leave and I would miss you.

      1. jenna says:

        Thx k. U will see a different side of me now.

    3. E. B. says:

      Hi Jenna,

      I have just read that you wanted to leave but fortunately you changed your mind. I am glad you are back! I can understand that one of the reasons why you do not feel like cutting off contact with your ex is that you get panic attacks and other physical symptoms when you think he will be out of your life. Maybe it helps to remember that if your ex is a narcissist his intentions and feelings are not sincere. You fell in love with his mask. You like someone who does not exist because he has not shown you his real self yet and you do not know if he ever will. In other words, you do not know him at all. You also mentioned that your ex can show you more (fake) empathy sometimes than other people in your life. I think that it is difficult to meet empathetic people because most of them are in relationships with other narcissists or with emotionally unavailable normals. IMO, as long you occupy your mind and time with narcissists and cold and distant normals, who do not care much about you, you are missing the opportunity of meeting someone new who is empathetic and emotionally available.

      1. Jenna says:

        Hi EB,

        Ty. U r absolutely correct with everything u wrote. U understand me well.

        Fortunately, i am not feeling panick this time after having disengaged. I think it is becoz 1)he is still texting me and, 2)becoz i have much information abt why he acts the way he does, frm hg. Once he stops texting, that’s when the panick will begin. I know that. I have to deal w that.

        U r also correct that i have known one narc, one normal who is distant, one type A personality normal who is v emotional with me but quite domineering generally, and only one empath. The relationship w the empath was so lovely. He still emails me every yr on my bday.

        I must remember that the narc is fake. But tbh, i commend some narcs becoz, tho they have no empathy, they try really hard to have cognitive (insincere) empathy. My ex tries really hard most of the time to support me, when it doesn’t even come naturally to him. I know he’s a narc. He knows he’s a narc. He knows that i am aware he has no empathy. Yet, he still tries. I feel touched by it. Thank god he’s a mid ranger. I wud not tolerate a lesser, and i wud not b able to handle a greater. Luckily, i don’t think greaters wud even approach me, as i wud b too boring for them!

        Thx for reading eb.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          He doesn’t know what he is.

          1. Jenna says:

            Hi hg,

            Not trying to challenge u in any way, but remember i told him what he is and he finally accepted it afer a few months?

            Do u mean he just pretended to accept it?

          2. HG Tudor says:

            It is a hallmark of the Mid Ranger (usually MMR or UMR) that they appear to accept something but they do not actually do so because there is always a “but” or similar qualification. Or the admission is only done in order to gain something but is not genuine.

            Thus a Mid Ranger might say
            “I know you get upset when I disappear for days on end but if you didn’t nag me so much I wouldn’t need time apart.” (Recognition but blame shifting to victim )
            “I am sorry I hit you but you were up in my face and you know how that makes me feel.” (Admission but blame shifting to victim )
            “I know I was in the wrong, I guess it is the demons affecting me again, I don’t know what to do, can you help me?” (Admission but blame shifting to third party agent)
            “I know I am doing what I have you accused you of doing, but in my case it is different because…..” (Admission but rejection of culpability).

            This is how MR con people.

          3. Jenna says:

            Ty for ur reply.

          4. HG Tudor says:

            You are welcome.

    4. narc affair says:

      Jenna im glad youre back! Your post was so cute lol no contact from the blog is impossible! 😄

      1. Jenna says:

        Hi narcaffair,

        I saw u on this pg, but i thought perhaps u stopped receiving comments in ur inbox (which happens to me often in a thread), becoz usually u participate in heated discussions.

        Anyways, thx lol! Nc with the blog is just not a possibility. I know that now! 😅

  2. LA Jones says:

    Oblivious should be my middle name!

    I named my first doll Sympathy. I have always been conscientious of others feelings. I’ve always found more pleasure in doing for others. As a mother, I am my children’s biggest cheerleader and supporter. I never turned down the opportunity to be team mom or classroom mother. Only now that the fog has started to clear, I would never have guessed that people so cruel really existed, or that a teammates father from little league was off this brethren and had chosen me, studied me, and researched me long before approaching me.

    I recognized what I now know as “red flags” during my pregnancy, but by that point, I managed to explain, excuse, and forgive every one. After our daughter was born, the isolation, including a twin bed in the baby’s nursery as my new sleeping quarters, devaluation, unending silent treatments, denied access to any and all money, and the list is endless. And then postpartum depression began. I’d felt it in my gut that it was a matter of time until we reached the end, but I believe this was used to his advantage. It felt like I was on the fast track to hell. In time, I had a mental breakdown and required hospitalization.

    During my hospitalization that it was decided it best if I moved out and my belongings, only my clothes and my older sons clothes, were taken to my parents home. Mind you, it was a combined home and prior to that, I had a fully furnished home. I guess any furniture, kitchen ware, etc, were considered payment for everything he’d done to support me. Even after being released from the nut-jobery, I still hoped desperately to work things out.

    It has taken therapy, a lot of therapy, to repair enough of the mental and emotional damage in order to just function. Then out of the blue, a light went on! I started writing in journals, dates, times, situations. It was like a flood gate had opened.

    My goal at this point is to arm myself with as much knowledge possible. Behavior to expect. How to coparent, which doesn’t seem to exist, and raise my daughter in a healthy environment. How my empathy can best benefit others because I refuse to let this creep change who I am.

    I will treat him as I do my 3 year old and pick and choose my battles. I will turn the tables and I will continue to research who he his and how he operates and act accordingly. I’m not a doormat. I will persevere in the knowledge that while my empathy may be seen as my weakness and as your fuel, I see empathy as gift, the narc’s weakness, which is now my fuel. My eyes are open, my mind is clear, and my heart full of fire.

    Oblivious is what I was.

  3. Tappan Zee says:

    funny how they are here because of narc abuse. you tell them POINT BLANK THE TRUTH. the malady and the remedy. yet they talk amongst themselves, ignore and negate you (not in a wounding fashion) thinking it’s cute and fun. it’s death and dying. not fun. not cute. and a damn shame because they are dying from the poison for you which you are offering a free (but not painless, no contact and recovery is hard work) anti-venom. meh.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You got it TZ.

      1. Insatiable Learner says:

        HG, I have been reading your responses to Gabs and Jenna, and I must say I really find them empowering. I really need this to stay strong and fight the emotional thinking and emotional infection. Just wanted to let you know how much I appreciate it and how much it is really helping. TZ, thank you as well! Your contribution is enormously helpful!

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You are welcome. You get the brutal truth from me. No fluffiness, no sugar-coating. I am pleased you are using them constructively.

    2. Jenna says:

      Hi tz,

      I am not sure who u r referring to, but since posts frm me and to me are numerous on this pg, i wud like to adress this.

      U stated:
      “they talk amongst themselves, ignore and negate you (not in a wounding fashion) thinking it’s cute and fun. it’s death and dying. not fun. not cute. and a damn shame…”

    3. Jenna says:

      To tz continued,

      I have never negated hg. I always know he is correct. I state overtly that my prblm has always been implementing the no contact due to my emotional thinking. It is a weakness for sure. Hg knows my case well. I have consulted him on skype many times.

      The reason i talk to gabs (“talk amongst themselves”) is because i feel what she is feeling, so maybe my perspective might ‘click’ with her and she will disengage frm her narc? Hg understands her because he observes, he processes, he has a brilliant mind, experience, and he’s an absolute genuis.
      I understand because i ‘feel’ exactly what she feels. So if i can stop meeting my narc even tho my emotional thinking is high, surely gabs can too?

      I do not think it’s ‘cute and fun’. I do use humour as a therapeutic tool though. Gabs was so depressed she was not even posting on the blog. When she finally posted, she stated that she’s always looking for the humour, so i try to be humourous, to reduce her depression. Of course, i will not be humourous abt serious issues, but only abt trivial matters, eg. joke abt some statements her narc has made. Perhaps then, she will realize how utterly ridiculous he is?

      For me, it’s not ‘death and dying’ at all. I read in another thread that u have a temporary protective order against ur narc, and that u will be getting a permanent one on monday. I hope it works out for u.

      My nex luckily was never violent, never called me names, never insulted me, never borrowed a single cent frm me, and there are no children or assets involved. So, for me, it is not a situation of ‘death and dying’.

      In fact, one of my non-narc relatives has been more mean to me than my narc ever has. I usually find contentment and solace in my ex. Not always, but usually.

      Many pple have differing experiences TZ, and come frm different backgrounds, some unhealthy, some healthy, some partially unhealthy, and thus we will all react differently.

      I hope that explains my perspective.
      I hope u had a nice thanksgiving!

      1. gabbanzobean says:

        I read everything that everyone has to say. I do not think anything is cute or fun. I may not reply to everything but I reply to what I can. I do not negate anyone. I want to learn but I feel like I am stuck in denial land with everything. Yes I do try and find the humor but inside I am depressed and miserable. I miss Piano recital at church so much and I want him so horribly. It is a struggle to not reach out to him. To get him off my mind. He invades my dreams several times a week. The days and nights just kind of blur together at this point for me. I just want to go to sleep and not wake up.

        1. K says:

          I am sorry that you are struggling and feel miserable. It can be very easy to get stuck. Please, keep reading and reading, the logic will help dispel the emotional thinking. Ever presence will take time to disappear and I was miserable in the beginning too. The whole process is brutal and heartbreaking and I wish I could wave a magic wand and make you feel better.

          1. gabbanzobean says:

            I wish you could too, K. I cry myself to sleep and then he haunts my dreams. Unfinished business always.

      2. Jenna says:


        Pls keep in mind that gabs’ has only had 2 sexual partners. Her narc is her 2nd. I have had four. Since our numbers are lower than avrg (i checked the stats), the effect the narc leaves may be longer lasting.

        I am not used to sex. I have it v infrequently, maybe once per two yrs on avrg. When i receive love-sex, it is v bonding for me. I think abt the ‘love’ v often.

        Pls do not pass judgement that my behavior is ‘not sane’. Everyone comes frm a different experience.

        I still applaud those who are narc free.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Jenna, we get it, you didn’t like the “not sane” reference.

          1. jenna says:

            Hi hg,

            It was building up.

            TZ began with this on Nov 22, 04:14 in the other thread to me:

            you banter… (impolite)
            it’s as if you mock the rest… (incorrect and accusatory, i wud NEVER do that, EVER)
            pretending it’s barbie dolls… (incorrect and accusatory)
            while you siphon off (incorrect and reprehending)

            I replied politely.

            She continued on nov 22, 22:29 here:

            … they talk amongst themselves (unfounded, we are permitted to address other commenters)
            … ignore and negate you (incorrect, accusatory)
            … thinking it’s cute and fun (highly incorect, accusatory, offensive)
            … a damn shame (passing judgement, offensive)
            … they are dying (incorrect)

            I replied politely, and even wished she had a nice thanksgiving.

            Yet again she continued on Nov 23, 23:02 in the other thread:

            … bs excuses (foul language ‘bs’ thus hurtful, impolite)
            … you do not want out (assumption)
            … you want to be an se (unfounded, highly incorrect assumption)
            … and some how be “the one” who conquers this (unfounded, highly incorrect assumption, offensive)
            … you’re deluding your self (tactless , unless she has the credentials to state this)

            I replied politely AGAIN.

            Following her post on nov 24, 01:41 to SHG in the other thread, i tried to be friendly with her.

            YET FURTHER, she continued in the other thread on Nov 24, 14:24:

            … for the common good let us volunteer in the front lines for abuse, to spare the rest? (sarcasm, impolite)
            … that is neither noble nor sane (assumption that i claimed it to be, impolite reference of sane, offensive)
            … it is also not admirable (assumption that i claimed it to be thus offensive)
            … it is, well i am at a loss for words what it is (condescending)

            I had it by now.

            AND AGAIN she continued in that thread on Nov 24, 15:08:

            OMG HOW DID I DO IT. (sarcasm, implying her own superiority thus impolite)

            I really had it by now.

            Hence, my reaction.
            I can be polite to a certaint point.

        2. gabbanzobean says:

          You have a good memory. I am starting to wish I did not share that bit of info, only because it makes me feel like a loser. 2 people. 2 people and I am 38 years old. I feel like I am the Virgin Mary. Yeah I hear you on the love-sex. It is definitely very bonding. He “lectured” me when he flip flopped between saying he loved me and then saying regardless of what I see him as he sees me as a fling.

          “Surely you must know you can have sex with someone and NOT love them”

          Well yes I know that. Sure I may be naive but I am not stupid. Wise words, Piano Recital. Wise words. Perhaps I should get that number higher and stop overthinking the idea where I want to love the person that I have sex with.

          Yeah he does not love me but having sex is how he “expresses his affection”. Because, you know, he cares about people like “fellow human beings”. (eye roll)

      3. Jenna says:

        The ‘not sane’ comment was made by Tz to me in another thread on the same topic abt my recent interaction w nex.

      4. Jenna says:

        Hi gabs,

        I am not receiving all comments in my inbox. Lucky i checked this page manually.

        U need not feel like a ‘loser’. Sex is very intimate for many. I only engage in it when i feel a strong connection with somebody. Not knowing abt narcissism, i felt a strong connection with nex.

        What’s wrong if we don’t want our sex number to be high? I could have sex rn with 3 pple that i know are v willing. But i choose not to. It is a choice we make.

        A lower sex number imo is of vital importance to understand why a person is so fixated on the narc.

        As soon as i learned that abt u, i understood everything more clearly.

        No matter what ur sex number, it is nothing to be ashamed of.

        Except, ummm, maybe mr.piano recital at church having a number of 40+ being only 33.

      5. gabbanzobean says:

        Just re-reading as well…the texts your narc sends you where he says “relax we will talk tomorrow’….he sounds like my narc. I could send him an emotional encyclopedia and he would reply with “relax” or “breathe”. (insert eye roll here)

        And yeah 33. and 30+, not 40+ although to be fair he did “lose count” so who the F knows how many he’s had.

        1. Jenna says:


          Eeee! Are we allowed humor?

          30+ instead of 40+, but he lost count? Actually, no comment. I remain silent on this.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            According to you, no, people are judged for laughing.

          2. Jenna says:

            Hi hg,

            I stated that one shud refrain frm making judgements abt the victims who r in different stages of healing, and who have different histories, anxiety issues etc.

            I have not stated that one shud not judge the narc. The narc need be judged, since they use manipulation often.

            I wanted to use humor as i do often as a therapeutic tool. I was fearful of doing so in case it is misinterpreted as ‘cute and fun’.

            This blog scares me now.

          3. HG Tudor says:

            I wondered if you might stop given my last comment, but you have not, so i am going to make this point.

            “I stated that one shud refrain frm making judgements abt the victims who r in different stages of healing, and who have different histories, anxiety issues etc.” – so, if TZ is at a different stage of healing from you, should you not then refrain making a judgment about her?

            Do understand this isn’t about me attacking or defending anybody, but highlighting certain behaviour. I am wondering if you might be able to see that unconditionally or not?

            Use humour if you will, that is a matter for you. If someone interprets it in a particular way that is a matter for them.

          4. Jenna says:

            Hi hg,

            U do have a way of scaring me. Despite my fear, I will answer u.

            “– so, if TZ is at a different stage of healing from you, should you not then refrain making a judgment about her”

            I did retract my comment “I suggest u let go of ur rage and anger too. It is very freeing.” It was judgemental of me to state this. I shud not have.

            The other comment i made was to demonstrate a point only, as i stated in the comment itself. I did not mean that comment at all. I used her own words towards her, to demonstrate my point.

            (If anyone thinks i tolerate abuse, i think it is evident frm my posts that i do tolerate my interpretation of what i deem offensive until a certain point, but after that, i do not.)
            This last statement in no way is directed towards hg.

          5. HG Tudor says:

            I do not see how you can regard me as scaring you during this discussion, it is purely a discussion, no more, no less. I have not used language which is threatening, derogatory or intimidating.
            I do, of course, understand why you make such a statement before answering.

            Your retraction was only part of the judgemental comments made.

            Answer this question – “If TZ is at a different stage of healing from you, should you not then refrain from making a judgment about her?”

          6. Jenna says:

            Hi hg,

            Ur comment was not derogatory or threatening. But i interpreted it as intimidating. I am quite fearful of u. I certainly do not enjoy engaging in this type of discussion with a greater narcissist of extremely high intelligence. It certainly scares me to do so.

            I went thru my comments. I cud not find any other comment, other than those two, which i elaborated upon. I did make a sarcastic comment, “isn’t he the devil?” ie. referring to my ex who wants to compromise. I stated in the comment itself that i am using sarcasm following her example.

    4. Kimi says:

      Tappan Zee,

      Your comment really irked me and your words belittled others, myself included while pandering to HG.

      I find it “funny” how you pass judgment on those in this forum who are not at the same point of Narc Recovery as you. Keeping in mind, that judgment is a significant part of the Devaluation in the Narc relationship, from which we have all suffered. Perhaps those who are still dealing with their Narc are in the greatest need of this forum. It is my daily lifeline to reality while I am learning from HG’s body of works.

      I would hope that all of us, survivors of Narc abuse would be kind and supportive of each other here, wherever they may be in their recovery.

      1. Jenna says:

        Hi kimi,

        I hope u had a nice thanksgiving.

        If u are interested, this is the other thread that i am referring to:

  4. gabbanzobean says:

    Sorry TYPO….I meant the one thing that stays with me is the quote ABOVE from HG about attachment.

    1. Nuit Étoilée says:

      Whatever talks to you, allows you to try to take a break from constantly thinking about him, obsessing over everything he said or did – do that.

      Find something, anything, that makes you feel better – that has nothing to do w him.

      Yes, find a daily mantra that reminds you that he doesn’t really give a shit about you, isn’t thinking about you the way you think about him.. and yep, isn’t attached to you – that he will go out and find another.. and another.. the next day and the day after that.. bc it doesn’t affect him the way it affects you..

      No matter what he has said – he doesn’t care.

      Turn off the sound of his words if you can – bc it’s always all in the actions..

      Write a journal of how you feel – it will do more good than writing him.. and you can try to understand yourself…

      I think our upbringing by narcs means we will forever try to find/fix that impaired relationship…

      You – like me – probably have a hile in our heart where that parent love was supposed to be.. but these narcs won’t fix that..

      i know you’re not there yet.. i get that.

      HG and the many other wise posters here are sharing the brutal truth.. but sometimes we’re not ready for that yet.. and we need compassion.. I wish I was near to accompany you on that journey to turn away from what is hurting you.. but you’ve got to find the strength on your own.. no one else can do it for you… and it will only continue.. it won’t get better…

      You’ll get there if you want to.. one step at a time.. but don’t give up on trying to get away.. to give up on him..

      Find that worth you have – bc you are worth so much more.. you really deserve better.. but YOU have to believe that..

      ((Big hug))

      1. Jenna says:

        Hi nuit etoilee,

        Ur reply was under gabbanzobean’s comment so i am not sure if u r replying to her, or both of us, as i am not receiving all comments in my inbox. Because u mentioned how it is not useful writing to him, it may also be a comment for me, since i have detailed what i wrote to him above.

        Ty for the comment. I like ur suggestions. I do believe that i must have a “hole in (my) heart where that parent love was supposed to be”. I suffer frm delayed onset of ptsd due to childhood abandonment and trauma.

        The ‘wise’ posters comment is v perceptive of u. I thought i was the only reader who recognized that. I agree that ‘we need compassion.’ I am more likely to follow advice if it is presented in a compassionate manner. It gives me strength.

        I certainly appreciate ur compassion. U have added to my arsenal of strength. Ty.

        A hug right back to u. I wish u continued healing as well.

  5. gabbanzobean says:

    He sounds like mine! “Fake it till you make it”….he said that ALL THE TIME! He also hated sharing with me. Not in the beginning but later on while he pushed me away. Hated sharing. One time he shared some stuff about his daughter and then the next day was all “I let my guard down with you and I should have been so forthcoming”. The info he shared was not earth shattering (least not to me)….it was about his daughter’s medical issues (seizures which are being managed with medication) and behavior issues (she just started Kindergarten and had some trouble adjusting to it). He acted as if he had shared a list of some heinous crimes with me.

    Case in point….these narcs really operate from the same textbook. I would text him some meaningful deep thoughts and he would reply back with standard canned responses like the ones you list above. They put on a fake emotional show and then they pull away.

    HG said it best in the Queen Adventures interview. “I attach people to me but I am not attached to them”.

    Even if I am stubborn and do not listen to the advice given here (least not yet anyway, not anymore than you as we still continue to text/call these midranges of ours) the one thing that stays in my head is the quote about from HG.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It is nothing to do with being stubborn, that is an excuse.

      1. K says:

        jenna & Gabs
        Nothing gets by HG. No excuses anymore ladies.

    2. Jenna says:

      Hi gabs,

      There is nothing wrong with sharing abt his daughter. But narcs are paranoid, so that’s why some narcs don’t share i guess.

      Luckily, i am coming closer to another escape. I hope i can do it!!

  6. Becky says:

    I think I see my stepfather!

  7. narc affair says:

    Because were not paranoid and scheming thinking constantly that people are out to get us.

  8. Alex says:

    Similarly, like Hubris: Pridefulness to the point of Cluelessness.

  9. Jenna says:

    He certainly is oblivious.

    I did the unthinkable. He texts me without fail approx once a month. I never text him. This time, i could not wait. Mid month, i texted him. This was yesterday.
    I felt a little better. But he is being evasive.

    He was the one who wanted to remain friends post hoover. It took me some time to accept his offer. I said ‘i’ll think abt it’ first, then finally i said ‘ok’.

    Now, he is not sharing things with me that friends share. When i was ipps, he used to share everything. I knew most of his friends’ names, who he goes out with and when. Now he says he doesn’t trust me because i revealed his online profiles to a few pple. Well, couldn’t he have told me that b4 he asked if we could be ‘best friends forever’? If i had known ‘best friends forever’ meant him sharing the weather, then i wud have rejected his offer.

    I asked him to call me. He is gonna call me on monday. I have to tell him all of this – that i wud have rejected the friendship had i known it wud be like this. Hopefully, he will understand. But rn, i am low on his fuel matrix so i don’t know if he will agree to the new terms of the friendship. Usually, he accepts what i say if i explain in detail, and we put changes into effect that suit both of us. This time, idk what is going to happen. I’m worried.

    If i go nc, that’s even worse for me. I think i’m too co-dependent to do that. Note: this is a texting only friendship, and once in awhile phone call. I do not meet him, nor will i.

    1. Jenna says:

      I notice that i fall weak whenever hg is not moderating for 3 days or more. This worries me too. Hg can’t be here all the time. And eventually, he may discard all of us. I don’t see this blog running for a lifetime. It’s not practical. Yet i fall back without it. 😞

      1. jenna says:

        I spoke w him. I couldn’t wait til monday. He was not evasive this time.

        I told him i want a normal friendship where both pple share. He said i can share as much as i want, and that he will advise me, but that he doesn’t want to share much abt his personal life. I told him that i wud have not agreed to the friendship then. He said he doesn’t have energy to give much more these days because he has so many worries that he does not tell me abt. I told him i want to know, and i thought he was doing well now. He said he appears as tho he’s doing great, but that he fakes it. ‘U gotta fake it to make it’ he said. I cried, of course. He hates that.

        After we hung up, i texted him my feelings. I couldn’t hold back any longer. It felt good. I was keeping it bottled inside for months. I texted:

        Are u an angel or a devil, that you’ve consumed me so much?
        Frm where did u come
        And where did u go?
        U left a mark on my heart, such a deep mark
        One that will not wipe off

        He replies:
        I’m at my friend’s
        Can we talk tmrw?

        Me: sure
        (But i continued)

        I talk to u in my heart, without telling u
        My heart will certainly listen because it belongs to me

        (and more)

        u need to calm down
        This isn’t good

        i am calm
        I just feel like expressing myselffff
        (I continue some more)

        I’m surprised he didn’t block me. But he did remove his profile pic in the midst of this. I wonder why?

    2. Windstorm2 says:

      Remember that you can never trust what they say to you. He most likely never really wanted to be friends with you. He has some other agenda. It’s not realistic to think that a narc friendship will include sharing personal things that are important to you. They don’t care what’s important to you unless it benefits them in some way. And they will only share things with you that THEY want to share, which well may be nothing.

      The two narcs that I am close friends with are both highly intelligent and enjoy “problem-solving.” The only way they will listen to things that are important to me is if they can show off their intelligence and/or offer solutions or if what I want to say is about a subject that is of interest to them. Otherwise, they don’t want to hear it and I know not to try to talk about it. To them, my purpose is to listen, laugh and show appropriate interest and understanding.

      If you think you are codependent with this narc, you can’t stay that way without being repeatedly hurt. The only safe way to be friends with a narc is to be totally independent from them. If you rely on them in any way, you will get hurt. Codependent is the opposite of this and means you will be hurt all the time.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        All valid observations.

      2. Jenna says:

        Hi windstorm,

        You referred to him as “this narc”. Hehe i loved it! U relay a type of unimportance to him in that sentence. I am sure it was not intentional. However, it helps me to see how unimportant he really is!

        U stated he has some other agenda. I know his agenda is fuel, and character traits. But i don’t know what else it could be?

        He does like to show off his problem solving skills, when asked only. He doesn’t volunteer it.

        “To them, my purpose is to listen, laugh and show appropriate interest and understanding”
        This is what i wanted actually. But he says next to nothing these days. He texts me so that i can entertain him, since i can be quite funny! (Hg doesn’t find me funny tho!) I’m tired of entertaining him. The friendship was two ways until recently. He wud share, and so wud i. But the last few interactions, he is v quiet. He’s becoming so boring. I may just disengage. I hope so.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Do you enjoy being a puppet?

          1. Jenna says:


          2. HG Tudor says:

            So why are you being one then?

          3. Jenna says:

            Excellent point.


            “one whose acts are controlled by an outside force or influence” (

            Maybe unconsciously i do? Idk.

          4. HG Tudor says:

            Yes I know what a puppet is. Do you mean you unconsciously allow it but you don’t realise that it is happening?

          5. Jenna says:

            Hi hg,

            I pasted the definition for myself. Of course u know what a puppet is. The meaning is more clear to me after reading the exact definition.

            I do not like being a puppet, but then why do i allow it? Maybe because unconsciously i like it? I consciously realize it is happening sometimes, like in this example i posted.

            Ty hg.

          6. HG Tudor says:

            Fair enough. You now see it happening. You do not like it. So, what happens next?

          7. Jenna says:

            Next, i will not think abt him (except to participate on the blog). I will not engage with him. I think i can do it!

  10. K says:

    Not any more.

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The Igniters of Fury – No. 3