The Super Empath



It is well known that our kind target those who have empathic traits. Just like those of my persuasion operate on a spectrum, those who exhibit empathy do so as well. There are those we might regard as the “normals” those people who have some narcissistic traits and some empathic traits. As ever, when I use the words empathic and empathetic I state them with reference to certain traits such as empathy (clearly), honesty, kindness, decency and such like. I do not use the words in the sense of being in tune with the world and the environment. The normal are in the centre, possibly leaning one way towards my kind or the other way towards your kind. It is extremely rare for a normal to be ensnared as primary source because put simply, they do not cut the mustard. Their emotional responses are not sufficient, their empathic traits whilst evident are not sufficient to either bind to us or provide us with the fuel that we need. Such a person would easily pass a homeless person begging, a person crying alone on a bench or somebody who had fallen off their bike and injured themselves. They are self-absorbed but not to the degree that our kind is. They will help if they really have to, but they do not go out of their way to act in a way that causes harm to anybody else.

Thereafter come those who are empaths. Empaths are always targeted as primary sources. They often fulfil secondary roles as well. They are rarer in a tertiary source position since if they are an empath, they would be better suited to either being a primary or secondary source. We would not want those empathic traits to go to waste. The empath has a good range of empathic traits those of honesty, decency, having a strong moral compass and being a good listener, just to list a few of them. They may not have all of the empathic traits that we look for, but they will have several and exhibit them in a concentrated form. Thus this person would look to donate to a charity, hand a wallet in that was found in the street, help a stranger who is in distress, sit and listen to somebody who has problems and acts of a similar nature.

Next comes the Super Empath. This person is not a co-dependent. Both the Super Empath and the co-dependent have many, if not all of the empathic traits that we look for and they have them to a stronger degree than the empath. For example, both might take the homeless person under their wing and take them to a shelter, maybe even house them themselves for a period of time. They would try and locate the person who had lost their wallet in order to hand it back in person rather than say hand it in at a police station first. They will listen to the person with problems and then offer practical solutions to resolve those difficulties. The co-dependent gains validation from such acts through giving and has to do this to an excessive degree even when it goes beyond what is good for themselves, such is their inherent addiction to the act of giving and selflessness. The co-dependent may not actually be that strong an individual (they are in the sense of the abuse that they can soak up) but they are not strong as they have no identity to assert, they must form one through self-flagellation, giving and not taking. They are masochistic in nature, driving themselves to the point of collapse and illness because they lack the strength to escape and the desire to do so from the clutches of our kind. Lesser Narcissists and Mid-Range Narcissists hook up with co-dependents especially because they give, give and give but do not fight back. They challenge themselves, blame themselves and always make excuses for their abuser.

The Super Empath is also a giver but whereas the co-dependent is masochistic in this giving, the Super Empath does so from a position of strength. They hold their ability to empathise, to heal, to fix and impart goodness as a great gift and one which ought not to be abused. They are drawn to our kind less because of the co-dependent’s need to seek validation of identity through a narcissist, but more because they are initially attracted to the apparent emotional output of the narcissist. The false strength which the narcissist exhibits at the outset of the seduction, the confidence, the apparent satisfaction with his self, that he appears comfortable in his own skin, at ease with others, capable of lighting up a room and so forth is a huge attraction to the Super Empath because that person actually sees something of themselves in the narcissist when the narcissist is seducing. That is not to state that the Super Empath is a narcissist. Far from it. But the Super Empath is just as engaging as the narcissist and thus there is a mutual attraction. The Super Empath is also more challenging to the narcissist and therefore is usually the recipient of some Mid-Range narcissists and most often the Greater Narcissist. This is not because the Super Empath is awkward or reticent but rather she will be forthcoming with her empathic traits once she feels that they have been earned. Accordingly, the narcissist must put the extra miles in, in terms of seduction to ensnare the Super Empath. This person needs to be coerced into sharing the fruits of their empathy but once that trust has been earned, once the gate has been unlocked the benefits are huge. The Super Empath shines with empathy, glows with decency and pours forth delicious fuel.

This continues during devaluation. The empath and co-dependent are easier to “break” in terms of causing negative fuel to flow. The Super Empath is made of sterner material and will resist the negative machinations of the narcissist at first. This may result in the narcissist dis-engaging if he does not feel able to impact on the Super Empath and seeking fuel elsewhere. The Greater knows who he has ensnared and knows once again he must unlock the fuel source, this time negative, of the Super Empath and once it is done the tidal wave of fuel is to be enjoyed. The Super Empath will remain, wanting to fix the narcissist, exhibiting again the same empathic traits of others on the empathic spectrum, but again being made of sterner stuff, their descent towards numbness and malfunction is far slower than that of the empath. The Super Empath will keep providing the fuel but deteriorates at a slower rate. The risk factor however with a Super Empath is that their own personal integrity is greater than the empath’s and very much greater than that of the co-dependent and consequently of all these three classes of empath, the Super Empath is the one more likely to make a bid for escape and thus leave the narcissist with a cessation problem.

The challenge of unlocking both positive and negative fuel proves an attraction for the right type of narcissist because this allows him to assert his superiority and enjoy the challenge. The reward is magnificent. Excellent fuel and such that deteriorates at a much slower rate. The downside is the potential for the Super Empath becoming “aware” of what is happening, becoming unwilling to dedicate further energy to staying with the narcissist to fix and to heal and thus escaping. The Super Empath requires fairly careful management by our kind, but the rewards always mean that this person is a challenge which is often accepted.

69 thoughts on “The Super Empath

  1. Angela says:

    I wonder if I am a super empath. I have been unusually resilient in all three of my narc marriages, although I never fully realized what I was dealing with until the third. Although the abuse was severe and almost drove me crazy, I always woke up and came out on top, smiling.

    My first was a lesser and a moron. That one was too easy and not even worth describing. Both sides of his entire family disowned him.

    Even with my second marriage to the greater, I left strong. He constantly gaslit me for years, and while the gaslighting was effective in several ways, I kept a strong sense of self at all times. I just hid it from him. When he started trying to negotiate divorce terms, I pointed out some strange non-truths I had discovered in the books of his family business. He gave me exactly what I wanted, which was actually very reasonable. I went easy on him, because I am an empath after all. And screw the IRS anyway. He did get a good smear campaign in, but the things he told people weren’t entirely untrue, just twisted and distorted. I distanced myself and didn’t let it affect me.

    As soon as I realized what my third husband was (mid-ranger), I shut the negative fuel line off abruptly. I wanted him to discard me, because we lived in MY house and I didn’t want to deal with the mountains of junk he had filled it with, but wow. I didn’t expect him to leave so fast. I feel like I gave him a powerful last blow when he tried to make me feel guilty for wanting to keep my ring, which I actually had every intention of giving back to him. I calmly pointed out a contradiction he had made and kept asking him why he had made such a contradiction. He desperately kept trying to change the subject, but I kept asking him the same question and even suggested his own motives to him, without providing fuel. I wound him up into a tizzy until he stomped upstairs, grabbed the ring and angrily gave me BOTH our rings as I calmly thanked him in a fuel-less manner. Thanks sucker! (You’ll be a little fueled to hear that the distress I caused him was due in part to the armor you provided me.)

    I do see narcissistic traits in myself, although I would never intentionally hurt anyone that hasn’t hurt me first. I do have a sense of superiority, but I respect and love those “below” me. I can’t help feeling superior. There are other little quirks I’ve noticed in myself that are narcissistic, so your super empath theory kind of makes sense. I was a real doormat at times, though, so I still wonder… Can a super empath be a doormat? It seemed necessary as I desperately tried to make these lunatics happy.

  2. Mary says:

    HG, can an Empathic Supernova event look like and be confused with a Borderline (BPD) episode?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      To me, no. To others, I could understand they might confuse the two, yes.

      1. sarabella says:

        I would agree now, after an arduous 5 year education. I could look ‘whatever’ around my mother. Others never see that behavior. Normal people never see it. Only narc mother sees it.

    2. NarcAngel says:

      i dont know that much about BPD, but the borderline I know would self harm (or at least attempt) if pushed as far as someone in Supernova mode. Dont know if that is common however.

  3. One says:

    Eye opening! And in addition to having narcissistic parents, explains why I have dated almost exclusively narcissists and sociopaths for about 2 decades or more. Since losing a lot of weight, I’m getting male attention but still will select the narcissist out of others in the group….it’s so disturbing….!

  4. Lauren says:

    The t.v. show “Charmed”

  5. Lauren says:

    Hi HG!

    Are the Hallowell sisters on charmed Super Empaths?

    I know they’re witches but since they have a need to help and fix, they also fight back. If you have watched this show when I was on, would you classify them – well, Pheobe, Paige, and Prue as Super Empaths?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I do not know Lauren, I have never watched it.

      1. Narc Angel says:

        Well wouldnt that be a sight: The Epitome of Evil watching Charmed lol.

      2. ava101 says:

        But you are like one of the demons they fight, the one who uses their greatest fear against them.

      3. Lauren says:

        Okay, thanks for replying, HG!

  6. /iroll says:

    The narc’s urgent need from his supply: help me to be an individual, but she can’t.

  7. /iroll says:

    With hetero male narcs (just hypothesising):

    Some narcs *usually lower, are still in a primary relationship with their mothers and they don’t need other women beyond sex + support.

    Some marry a mother surrogate.

    The greater hates his mother and is also subconsciously submissive to her, so he acts out his maternal rage against other women.

    1. narc affair says:

      Hi iroll..that makes sense. The same can be said of some victims where the narc signifies our narc parent we so desperately wanted validation from but we end up hating.

  8. /iroll says:

    It’s quite common for people to confuse desire with the need to control, (and the co-dependent allows themselves to be controlled – as part of the same construct: control), because people want to avoid vulnerability, which means compartmentalising / repressing certain feelings.

    Men represent power in society and power represents masculinity as autonomous leadership. Men tend to have a weak concept of themselves outside of the seductions and pressures of power —they have little else as the mother is the primary life form, and compensate for that through fantasies of independence; venting emotion instead of feeling it, controling the object of desire instead of being made vulnerable to the object of desire, which is what desire is supposed to do to us—make us deeper in our bonds and self awareness.

    The narc attracts people who have psychic wounds, this may make them seem more open as opposed to most people who aren’t, but they won’t get the healing they need from the narc, they’ll just be re-traumatised.

    Narcissists do not appreciate the spiritual-erotic-primary aspects of femininity, they just want to feel like a baby—free of accountability, center of the universe, supported by a kind of instrumental mother—it’s an abusive baby / abused mother kind of relationship. They never fully separated from their mothers (due to dependency creating abuse, too much love, being orphaned, etc.), in the first place.

    The child seeks the mother.

    1. narc affair says:

      Hi iroll…great post! So true!

  9. Lori says:


    Is it fair to say that if I have often thought I was the Narc that I am a Super Empath ? I know that I am controlling with many narcissistic tendencies but I also have wlotvof empathy but in certain instances be quite cold. I also sometimes like playing the game with the Narc. Does that seem like Super Empath?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      More than likely.

      1. Lori says:

        Is it possible to be some combination of Codependent and Super Empath ? I am a diagnosed Codependent but I also have many narcissistic and Super Empath traits.

        I am wondering about this because I don’t think therapists splits what they would call codependency into these categories

    2. Elsa says:

      Same here

    3. Bibi says:

      That sounds like me. I thought I was a narc too (cerebral) but when I argue vehemently I don’t do it to preen or show off but that I really do believe in the causes involved. I hate confrontation and if someone else wanted to take over I would be fine with that, but stamping on my values I just crush hard.

      Condescension pisses me off more than anything, I think. Probably stems from my father and his misogyny.

      I still don’t know why it is called ‘super’, however, because it makes it seem like this is a ‘better’ empath than others, which shouldn’t be the case.

      Lori, do you know your personality/enneagram type? I am an INFJ, 4w3.

      Sounds silly but personality tests are fun! I’d be interested to know what some others are.

      HG my guess for you is ENTJ. Leader, problem solver, intuitive, organized. Prob an enneagram 8.

      1. Morning sun says:

        The term “super” also confused me at first, because to me it implied that super empaths possess even more empathy.

        I personally don’t really identify as an empath at all, since being empathic is not central to my personality or existence, it is just another skill/competence that I have. I do have a high capacity both for cognitive empathy and compassion, but I also have control over it. I can pretty much choose to shut it off, and learning how to do that has been a life-saver.

        To answer your question, I seem to be an ENFP-A. I just re-took the test and the result is the same as it was 10 years ago so I guess that’s as good as it gets. 🙂

      2. sarabella says:

        I am an INFJ. I have taken the Myer Briggs in work and various free ones off of that and its been consistent.

        I am not sure about the super part. Except super intense? lol

  10. HG,

    WOW! just WOW!!

    Time for empaths to observe, observe, observe some more.
    Would like it if we could “Identify a Narcissist in 30 minutes or less”.
    Time to go back over my notes for “Red Flag”

    1. narc affair says:

      Hi perse…i was thinking about this yesterday in regards to spotting narcissists and red flags. I think where ive struggled is with midrangers. They can come off as empaths or victims but im seeing thru it more and more. The pity plays and pointing the blame are two i really look for now. Each persons different tho bc some wear their masks more securely than others.

      1. MB says:

        Yep, Mr. Nice Guys those mid-rangers.

      2. Fuel Pump Out Of Order, Please Pull Forward says:

        Hi narc affair,
        I just remembered that HG has given us tools for that:

        I have printed these out for myself. I have not used them, yet, as I feel I’m not yet ready to have a relationship with another until I know myself better. So far I have refused all comers. But it does give me some comfort knowing i have these tips/questions to use before any ensnarement can take place.
        Anyone that I might be interested in would have to pass all 10, as my N only denigrated one of his ex’s, and treated minions excellently, as long as they did as asked.
        The other 8 questions/actions he would likely have flunked.

      3. Morning sun says:

        The MRN I was involved with largely refrained from pity plays because they made him seem weak. Of course, after a while when he let his guard down a bit, they came to the fore, but only subtly and only hinted at. He really didn’t point blame either, but he did find fault with everyone else and we were special.

        My number 1 red flag would be the “we are special, you and me” card. The “you’re special, you’re the only one who gets me, I’ve never felt such connection with anyone in my life” (if that comes from a 20 yo, fine, but coming from a 40+ yo, RED FLAG!). In other words, love bombing and evidence of idealisation. Also, being too self-assured in terms of being very definite in one’s views and expressing them as universal truths rather than personal opinions – such a person is unlikely to be able/willing to see things from your perspective, thus has a lower capacity for empathy and compromise.

      4. narc affair says:

        Ty perse! Ill look at those 👍

      5. Morning sun says:

        Don’t forget the Angels with dirty faces… and watch out for upper mid-rangers. The one I go involved with was so subtle re. the pity plays and blame-shifting that you could easily have missed it. His pity plays were delivered without any emotion of feeling sorry for himself and he often included comments on how it’s understandable why other people acted the way they did etc. No blaming, no whining. Just managing to create a sense of how magnanimous he is and how underappreciated he is and how bravely he bears it all.

        What he did present with was the “we’re special” and “nobody gets us”. Watch out for them thinking they are different, above others in some way and making use of that (some rules simply don’t apply to them because “the rules are stupid” etc.).

  11. MB says:

    HG, are you able to discern quickly the empath vs. the super empath upon first impression? If so, how? If not, when would it become apparent?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      In what context?

      1. MB says:

        When you’re out hunting.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          If I am engaging directly with the individual in conversation, within 30 minutes.

      2. MB says:

        I have learned much about myself during this journey as well as about narcissism, a serendipitous outcome. I know we’re not supposed to get “hung up” on labels, but I guess I’m trying to “diagnose” myself to see where I am on the empathic spectrum. Maybe I need another consultation?

      3. sarabella says:

        What gives it away for you HG that you are dealing with a Super Empath? Since a Super Empath is the only one it seems to go Super Nova, is it the indications of narc traits that clue you in?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Essentially yes and an individual who will “arm-up” in defence, but never in an unprovoked attack. Super Empaths have a rule of engagement that they can only engage, once engaged.

          1. sarabella says:

            You know, its interesting to take the information here and apply it to other terms people use in psychology. I have been called passive-aggressive by a few people. I never thought it matched. But I think what they were picking up on is that I am gentle, calm, grounded, sweet, shy, very sensitive, but when someone is going narcy on me, I leave all those behind and as you say, “arm up”. Those people may have been describing what you just say, do you think? They would never though, think that their behaviors are eliciting this switch. I suppose it could be confusing to people.

            But in some ways, its not unlike what a Narc lets his mask drop. Only I think its the reverse. Their pretend state is the mask, their natural state is what happens when the mask drops. My natural at ease state is empathic, but when provoked, that drops and I slide on the Super Nova spectrum, sometimes with spectacular displays.

            As I have gotten older, I have learned to articulate my emotions better, stand up for myself better without such sharp contrasts. But full blown narcs (as I now see the type of personalities this has happened with) ultimately push me to the edge and I lose all ability to moderate it and likewise, moderate my actions.

            Now, when I feel that quivering, that churning, I recognize it as emotions, I recognize someone has stired it up, I am learning to evaluaate what I want to do, if anything, sometimes evoking HG (what would HG say to do?) and then make decisions.

            I think if I keep working on this, focusing on watching that emotional connection to my own behaviors and reactions, I will like this empath narc dance in my life once and for all. I will always have to be vigilent. Always aware, but I think its doable to train or train more than I have been trained in that.

          2. sarabella says:

            thak is lick, not like! (never liked this dance!)

      4. Bibi says:


        It helps to learn your Enneagram. There are a number of tests you can take online to help discern what type you are, but I found that in learning mine, it to be most helpful when uncovering the reasons for why I attracted narcissists and how my empathic traits related to my narcissistic ones.

      5. MB says:

        HG, I have come back to this post because of an event that happened this week that I am having trouble getting over. Some input from you and others would be most appreciated.

        I am a middle manager at work. Another manager unfairly attacked the character and work performance of one of my direct reports to a member of upper management with an unfounded complaint. I don’t know what came over me in an instant! A raging person that I do not know came to the defense of my employee’s integrity. I thoroughly showed my ass! Using profanity, shouting and going on a rant shocking unsuspecting observers. I don’t think they recognized sweet little MB either! By the end of my 5 minute rant, I had come to my senses and began to apologize to the target of my tirade and feeling soooooo guilty! I have felt bad ever since. I have picked it apart and relived it, wishing it had not happened, wanting a do-over, feeling like a horrible person, etc. I don’t know how many times I have apologized to the accuser even though it was him that was in the wrong and he has conceded as such.

        I have had this loss of control of emotion happen before, but I can count on one hand the number of times I can remember and it has always been a defensive response and not instigated by me. If this is, in fact manifestation of super nova mode, no thank you. The guilt is not worth it. Those that say they have gone super nova, or identify as a super empath portray it to be a good feeling. At the very beginning, I felt a surge of power, but ever since, I’ve felt nothing but bad. I am proud that I stood up, but am ashamed of the manner in which I did it.

        (and no, I have not been fired although I am deserving of termination)


  12. Melina says:

    Super glad people share these comments here. I’m trying to figure out what I am. It’s not so much about the label but I want to help myself spot the patterns and become more aware.

    Reading this, I now think I could be Super Empath, other times I think I could be Narcissistic. I yesterday re-discovered co-dependency and am looking into it.

    I have never considered myself a co-dependent until reading that they too can be manipulative, controlling and passive aggressive. And it seems that the driving factor is fear, much like for Narcissists. But the fear and the ways these two conditions deal with it seem to differ.

    I think it’s possible to also be mix of these things.

    1. Mona says:

      I do not think, that codependent people are manipulative, that is one of the narcissistic traits. They only believe the narcs too much. They were not taught to trust their own feelings and they were not taught to form an own opinion. They were taught to be too empathic to narcs and to be submissive towards them. Therefore they unconsciously hurt other people. They are fully persuaded that they do the right thing. They are manipulated to do that.. until they are ready to wake up. No, I do not see any manipulative trait inside of them. They are not looking for their own advantage through (for example) lies. They only do it for another person.

      You will find out, what you are, what you have been and what you want to be in future. It only takes time. And it hurts sometimes.

      Your confusion at the moment is normal, because you start to think about your belief system (all the things you thought in past about yourself, about what is wrong and what is right, about the nature of other people…) . It will be much clearer after a while But at first there is chaos.

      I wish you all the best on your journey.

      1. Lori says:

        I’m sorry codependents are very manipulative. They seek control as do narcs but in a different way. They are not as damaged as a narc. Their true self is still in tact however codependents have a dysfunctional relationship with self. In many ways they are quite similar to narcs. They too see attention to derive their self worth thru others only difference is they have empathy often too much and their true self is still intact

        Codependents are very manipulative and controlling

      2. eVic says:

        Hmm what makes any of your theories right? Assuming you have even correctly labelled the right traits and attributed it to the right degree of Empath, Co De or Narc?

      3. Lori says:

        These are not MY theories. This stuff is well documented. I was diagnosed with moderate Codependency by a professional. Yep I have spent plenty of hours in the chair

        Codependents are extremely manipulative.and selfish. I know this cause I do it. I have done it to the narc as many times as he’s done it to me. I have purposely triggered his abandonment fears to get the desired reactions from him. I wanted to sense his panic because I equated it with love. and it worked every time until it quit working then I would try other methods. I have learned how to behave around certain people to get them to do what I want.

        Much like HG I am fully aware that I do these things and that they are dysfunctional. I am completely aware that I look to others to see my self worth and feel powerful. I have been able to work on it but more often then not I don’t and guess what ? Along came Narc 2.

      4. sarabella says:

        That is what the narc did to me. Deliberately triggered my abandonment experiences (of him abandoning me!) and labeled my reactions as panic. To piggy back on a comment elsewhere, he did it to be in control and to pretend like he didn’t have yhe same hurt places. He made me live what he was too cowardly to experience and live.

  13. Kate says:

    I love her! She is kickass!!!

  14. Wounded says:

    So right Mona! I cut the cord with the co dependent because she was one of the last ties to the narc. I flat out stated we could not be friends unless that destructive person was gone. So I am F.R.E.E. and she can continue on believing he actually cares.

  15. Mona says:

    There are a lot of people out there who deserve help and appreciation and are thankful for it. Concentrate on them or concentrate on animals, perhaps even for sharks ., although they will never show some “Thank you.”
    Let the narcissists and ! the codependent go their own way. Both are not able and willing to learn. So, let them share their fate. I stopped to have some empathy for people who always defend their narcissistic and /or violent husbands/ family members or friends. They both (narcissist and codependent) cause a lot of harm. I know that sounds harsh and it is. But who can trust a codependent who lies for his/her narc to protect him/her against the cruel world?
    Many of them are so codependent that they even lie at court to protect their “bad boys”. These kind of people have no back and load a lot of guilt on their back, not able to recognise what they actually do. No, I do not feel any empathy with them anymore, they sacrifice human rules, because of their addiction to the narc. What does that have to do with the Superempath? A lot. Find out yourself.

    1. echo says:

      “Let the narcissists and ! the codependent go their own way. Both are not able and willing to learn. So, let them share their fate.”

      Mona, it sounds here like you’re saying codependents don’t have the capacity for self awareness? For growth? I would think that’s a potentially dangerous thing to say on a blog like this. I hear a lot of judgement (and pain perhaps?) in your comment about codependents protecting their “bad boys” and having no spine.

      That’s not to diminish your experience. I’ll definitely agree that codependency can be quite harmful. It can lead to further abuse or can be a form of abuse in its own way. But I’d also say that the spectrum from codependency to narcissism is complicated and should be looked at on an individual basis along with specific circumstances.

      There are plenty of codependents, myself included, who are able and willing to learn. Who have learned and applied that knowledge to defend themselves and start to rebuild.

      Back when I was feeling low, a blanket statement such as the one you made would have just reaffirmed my own feelings of worthlessness and guilt. So I feel the need to call it out now, in case anyone is fresh in their journey and might have a similar reaction.

      1. Lisa says:

        Codependents are very similar to narcs. I know I was diagnosed with it,but I believe I’m more Super Empath. Codependents are almost inverted narcs. They are sort of inverted versions of each other. The reason for the attraction is they have the same core wound only it manifest differently. That’s why the narc and the codependent feel the most comfortable together. There is an unexplainable familiarity between both even though it’s highly dysfunctional, it feels “comfortable and familar” to both

        1. MLA - Clarece says:

          Hi Lisa,
          Your comment explaining how both parties have the same or similar core wound that attracts them to each other, always makes me take pause when I hear that. I researched that so much alongside of narcissism. Especially with Carl Jung psychology that delves into what is buried in the subconscious unresolved with keep manifesting in your conscious life until it is dealt with properly.
          If I do ponder in retrospect how JN remained in the picture for 5 years, I always keep wondering what or if something really did happen to him. If he has some core wound? There is no other relationship like the one I had with him as a point of reference. Sure, some friends, past co-workers, or bosses, but I navigated through those fine.
          Besides telling me once that he had to see a doctor to get some anxiety medicine, he never let anything else slip that would let anyone think he came from as normal and vanilla a close-knit family as you can get.
          It’s where I can still feel like I’m crazy. I can recognize in myself now having spent many months more reclusive some past hurts going back to childhood that I hadn’t thought about in years resurfacing at very random moments or even in my sleep. I can definitely see where JN symbolized certain things that I felt denied in my youth and why I so desperately wanted to cling when I thought I could now have it. But what about him? What drove him to my craziness at the time? The fever pitch emotions I would spew out, would not keep someone to keep coming back for more. It nags me. What was / is his wound? Or is it the one time a Narc-ish guy with no wounds found me?
          HG, you share some of your past wounds here, but what about any of your girlfriends or ex-wife? Did you share snippits of any of your abuse growing up or your strained relationship with your mother? Do they walk away from a relationship with you thinking you have the whole package of intelligence, job, success etc., you just have this awful cruel mean streak? Since being in therapy and being involved with the blog, when you have hoovered past girlfriends, are you more cognitive of what they think of you or if they have a better understanding of your actions with time and distance away?

      2. Mona says:

        Hallo echo, thank you very much for your respectful and kind comment, although I hurt you and other codependent people. My comment is the result of a lot of experiences and disappointments made with codependents. I do not blame your kind, because you cannot or could not defend yourself. I believe your kind never learned it and therefore there is no need to feel guilty or worthless.

        I blame or complain about the special blindness, that codependent people seem to develop.
        They have a lot of strengths ! and power ! to protect their narcs and to excuse their bad behaviour and they do not see the harm the narc causes elsewhere too. They actually belittle the pain of others, caused by the narc.

        One example: A narcissistic husband causes fully drunken an accident, in which a family father, who has two little children , is killed.
        What happens?
        The codependent finds excuses for her husband and does not think very much about the other family. The suffering of the other family will be ignored or is not so important. The narc will be in the middle of interest. “He is such a good guy. He did not want that. I have to help him”
        The narc – of course- plays the victim. He was so stressed and has had so many problems and so on.

        Codependent people have to learn that all people (including them) have the same rights and duties and that their narc is nothing special, no matter how bad his childhood was and no matter how much the codependent identifies with his (supposed) wounded inner child.

        I still stand for my opinion, that both together (narc and codependent) cause a lot of harm to others.

        If you are willing to learn and willing to see the whole disaster and accept your own responsibility and own role in that play, then you are no codependent anymore.

        I think that Lisa explained the similarity of narcs and codependent very good.

        Both show no healthy reactions. The difference between them: the narc enjoys and the codependent suffers.

        Perfect match.

    2. Recovered says:

      Your blog, Mona, with all due respect for your right to your opinion, is rubbish. Many codependents do and can recover. To lump them all as “not able and willing to learn” is unkind and unfair to the many who have turned their lives around, become their true selves which generally is as empaths. Unlike the narc greaters who know who they are and continue their destructive lifestyle. If a codependent learns who they are, depending upon the person as to whether or not they want to change, can go on to do kind, empathic things. I have known such people. They r often the victims.

    3. sarabella says:

      Well said. I saw my mother abandon us all to defend some jackass man. I am getting to be like you.

      But what did you mean by that last sentence about Super Empaths? We don’t do that? I had people try to get me to defend him, understand him. I refused. Called him a parasite and an evil no good person. I had his back for a while, but when he went too far, that was it. He became my enemy, Ala Super Nova style.

  16. KRG says:

    I am starting to think that I am not an Empath.
    I had him figured out within months of meeting him. Escaped accordingly too.
    It would just drive me crazy if he ever found out just how badly affected I actually was. I just maintained the ‘I don’t care about you’ facade so well. I sometimes feel like a half narc, half Empath because of this. 😅

    My mother is a co-dependent. She still makes excuses for my ‘good for nothing’ fathers behaviour.
    Or maybe, I figured him out because he subconsciously reminded me of my father.
    Wait, I am technically, half narc and half co-dependent.
    Bravo, genes, bravo. 👏🏼

    1. Lisa says:

      You are probably the Super Empath. I believe I am as well. I was diagnosed with moderate codependency after my first entanglement with a Narc. I often see Narcissitic traits in myself

      1. KRG says:

        Have you read HG’s article on The Empathetic Supernova or something similar?
        I think you and I would fit better in that category.
        I was subconsciously involved in power play with my Narc since day 1. Disturbing thing was that I was enjoying it so much. His false tears made me feel powerful.

        And, I am not this person. I am the person who gets sentimental while watching inspirational/touching movies. I hate to take advantage of others emotions. But, with him I acted like total narc since day 1. The silent treatment, mentioning the ex repeatedly, and what not. I find it extremely strange.

    2. A Wakened says:

      In response to KRG’s

      “But, with him I acted like total narc since day 1. The silent treatment, mentioning the ex repeatedly, and what not. I find it extremely strange.”

      I felt like I manipulated him, and at some points, even TRIED TO, in the beginning. I know I am NOT a narc, but found myself doing things to make him take notice… and these things, could be me.. my situation.. b/c deep down something in him was missing, I just didn’t know what it was at the time, so I tried desperately to invoke things in him.. Whether it was to see if he was jealous, how much he cared, etc.. Something didn’t feel right, so I believe that’s why I was acting that way..

      1. KRG says:

        Do you have a narcissistic parent or family member too?

        I think with me I was just trying to get even with someone who reminded me of my father.
        I was face to face with my worst enemy. This was probably my ill fated attempt at winning against him finally.

      2. sarabella says:

        A Wakened,

        Same. I felt quite early on something was off. I put him through some paces. I did things wanting him to notice me, to react. I wanted him to show he cared. I challenged him and he failed it quickly. But at one point when I decided to consciously manipulate him, test out some of HG’s claims, I got a better idea of how it works by doing it. Later, when he blew up at it and asked what kind of game it was, I said I learned it from him. Him. I learned how to toy with him, how he had been toying with me. Gamey, sneaky, indirect. And that is not me.

  17. Bekah B says:

    “The Super Empath will remain, wanting to fix the narcissist, exhibiting again the same empathic traits of others on the empathic spectrum, but again being made of sterner stuff, their descent towards numbness and malfunction is far slower than that of the empath. The Super Empath will keep providing the fuel but deteriorates at a slower rate.”

    I think this perfectly sums up what happened with me and my narcissist after almost 12 long years.. It’s finally over for me.. I can do no more to “fix him” and his manipulations have no impact on me whatsoever, as far as he can see.. I am a F.R.E.E..

    1. SuperXena says:

      Hello Bekah B,
      It feels good to hear that you have become a F.R.E.E! You used one of the abbreviations that I find most helpful.
      That abbreviation together with A.R.M.E.D summarise the process of changing mind set and rising the hoover bar.

      F.R.E.E=”If on the other hand it is very hard to contact you, we know you have stopped flowing with fuel when dealing with us, you have people who will stop us trying to reach you and so forth, you become a Flawed Reason to Extract Emotion (F.R.E.E.).” by HG Tudor

      A.R.M.E.D.= ” Avoid Reduce Minimise Evade Diminish .This is A.R.M.E.D. By applying A.R.M.E.D. to each and every day you will ensure that those triggers which you might have forgotten about or more likely those which you cannot stop, can be nullified in terms of their effect on you.” by HG Tudor.

      1. Bekah B says:

        Hi SuperXena! Hope all is well with you! Thanks for your comment.. Yes, I am happy to really know in my mind and feel in my heart every time me and my narcissist interact (because of our daughter) that I am a F.R.E.E.. I love the A.R.M.E.D. acronym as well.. I first ran across it when reading HG’s Exorcism book.. You are correct.. These acronyms summarize the process of changing the mindset to cool, hard logic and definitely raising that inevitable hoover bar! 🙂

        1. SuperXena says:

          Hi Bekah B,
          I am fine and thank you for asking. I hope that you and your little daughter are fine as well!

  18. DoForLuv says:

    After learning more and more about this narcissism sociopathy psychopathy taking this more seriously each day , our experiences. It’s so cruel to hurt abuse someone so badly who’s blessed with so much light we only want to share filled with so much love energy it just cant stay in the body shining . Just to end up haunted afterwards with extremely paranoia anxiety confusion. So disturbing.

    But time heals all wounds .

    1. A Wakened says:

      Wow. Now I understand this about myself. Just Wow. Thank you.

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