Poll : How Did The Formal Relationship With The Narcissist End?


You have two relationships with our kind.

The Narcissistic Relationship which lasts until you die or we die, meaning you belong to us – this is the one many people are unaware of.

There is also the Formal Relationship, which is the one you are aware of. It might be boyfriend and girlfriend, husband and wife, partners, colleagues, friends, a familial formal relationship, team-mates and so forth. There are many Formal Relationships covering the spheres of romantic, familial, social and work relationships.

How did the Formal Relationship with your narcissist end? If there have been Formal Relationships with more than one narcissist you may choose all applicable answers. If your Formal Relationship with a narcissist has been ended and resurrected many times (which is often the case) again choose all answers which are applicable before you cast your vote.

So, whether the narcissist said nothing to you and the first you knew you had been ‘dumped’ was when he was seen out and about with a new lady, whether it was your mother telling you were now cut off and ostracised from the family or whether you took matters into your own hands and penned a ‘Dear John’ e-mail, pick the applicable options and do expand in the comments on how you felt, why you chose the method you did (if you escaped) and your additional thoughts.

Thank you for participating.

How did the Formal Relationship with your narcissist end?

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68 thoughts on “Poll : How Did The Formal Relationship With The Narcissist End?

  1. Whitney says:

    Dear HG,
    The LMR Somatic: back and forth 30 times. It would end by me pointing out his wrong, and him disengaging. “Ok, fuck off”, then reengaging later.
    I am no contact after the last disengagement.

    A midrange victim Narc: I went no contact when he was trying to ensnare me and he’s been trying to contact me for over a year

    A greater Narc: I went no contact when he was trying to ensnare me. He went nuts then moved on.

    The UMR Elite: I blocked him (no contact).

    The MMR: I’m in contact

  2. empath007 says:

    He ended it because I kept sending him articles on narcissism after he confessed …. Haha

    So he made a last ditch attempt to place the blame on me. Sending me this awful text message about how the entire situation wAs my fault. That I’m a terrible person who he never wanted to see agiain.

    The tactic of making me feel bad had worked well in the past so I can’t blame him for trying that as I would normally have come back apologizing.

    He blocked me from everything. Probably getting thought fuel thinking I was devastated but truly… I was relieved that time… so relieved.

    He unblocked me
    A few weeks later so I just blocked him.

    I am still within a SOI so I am considering getting myself out of that. But will do so on my terms…. hopefully.

  3. Kim e says:

    HG, What must occur for the formal relationship to start again? Does it automatically start again once. lets say electronic contact has been made and answered? Must there be physical sightings? Physical contact? Just an spoken agreement?
    Your humble empath

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It depends on what the Formal Relationship was before hand. If you are an Shelf IPSS it means taking you off the shelf again.

      1. Kim e says:

        Hi HG. I am guessing I was a DSIPSS before the formal relationship ending. Is that a FWB? Bootie Call?
        And if I went NC even if it was only for a short period, does the FR end or am I just put on the shelf? Does it only end when the N disengages?
        Thanks HG

        1. HG Tudor says:

          1. Yes a FWB or Booty Call is different labelling for the DLS.
          2. If you go no contact, you escape – you are not put on the shelf because you have escaped. The FR ends because you escaped. In the narcissist´s mind you remain a DLS and he will (subject to HT and HEC) seek to draw on the Formal Relationship which he believes remains in place.

          1. Kim e says:

            1.Please will you explain the difference between Booty Call , FWB and DLS?
            2. So if you escape the FR does not change in the N’s mind? Is this why it is so easy for him to just pick up and start the relationship like a day has not gone by?
            Thanks Again

          2. HG Tudor says:

            1. It is the same.
            2. Yes.

  4. Kate says:

    Listening to Destiny’s Child “Survivor”on a loop makes me feel empowered!! (Hope that is helpful to someone)..

  5. Catherine says:

    Nothing was said; nothing ever ended properly and nothing will ever begin again. We had an explosive fight and he refused me any kind of closure afterwards. I still feel like it’s unreal somehow even though seven months have passed since then.

    1. narc affair says:

      Hi catherine…the closure is their hook to reel you back in. The only closure you need us knowing you made the right decision. I get it tho you want to feel ok about things when it ends but its never ok bc it was with a narcissist.

  6. narc affair says:

    I chose … i escaped and ended ot by text(only to go back) and i escaped the narc before by not replying to calls, texts or emails.

    In my case the narc before me disappeared briefly twice and this is something that causes me great anxiety so i lost interest and stopped all communication with him. This was a dealbreaker for me and the stress of not knowing if id see or hear from him and how long made it no longer worth it which was a blessing in disguise.
    My present narc has never disengaged from me ive twice from him by text but have never gone full no contact. I could never leave him fully unless he did something horrible but changing the dynamics could make him leave me. We shall see 🙁 one things for certain and thats that this cant be forever. Too much is at stake and too much is being sacrificed. I wake up every morning full of anxiety over the wrong choices and guilt. I see so many survivors moving kn with their lives and making right choices and i feel stunted in my growth as a person. I wish i had the strength and guts to do what so many have done. I have huge respect and admiration as well as envy.

    1. Insatiable Learner says:

      NarcAffair, I can feel your struggle and despair. I don’t know if this will make sense but I used to feel envy when I read you talk about your narc and how your relationship is still ongoing, etc. I was put on the shelf apparently, but it;s been a long time now, so I pretty much gave up hearing from him. As time goes on, however, I find that I am feeling stronger, pain subsiding, longing vanishing, and the narc becoming almost a fictitious character. If I think about him for any extended period of time, my whole body and mind are screaming how toxic he is because just thinking about him or thinking about the hurt he inflicted fills me with dread, anxiety, and pain and then I know beyond the shadow of a doubt, I don’t want to feel this and anything with him will only ever make me feel this way. I cannot emphasize enough the power of no contact. Like HG continues to say, GOSO is the only way. I am praying for your strength to break away from the narc sooner rather than later. With all my compassion, support, and understanding.

      1. narc affair says:

        Hi insatiable learner…ty so much for your prayers and your reply. I really hope no one is envious that im with my narc bc its not a fairytale by any stretch. I will say its the most complex situation ive ever been in. Hes not horrible like many narcs mentioned but there has been covert abuse and the give and take away or shelving in different ways.
        I keep asking myself what do i want out of this? I never wanted a real relationship where wed be together. The reality is its wrong that were together at all but i care and feel love for my narc. If i could have it my way wed be friends but id detach so were not always together and purely friendship. As i say that i feel anxiety over letting go.
        It helps to see others who have come out on the other side of their situations.

    2. Ugotit says:

      I can relate to everything u said I too have not been able to move on with my life yes I managed to go no contact for 34 days so far but I have not moved on emotionally I still feel completely chained to him I went no contact only because his neglect of me was so brutal and so overwhelming I couldn’t handle another day but I am shocked myself at how little if any progress I’ve made my thoughts are constantly on him to the point I sicken myself I never had this much trouble getting over any relationship but I guess its because it doesn’t actually feel over it feels like it will never be over I feel like I’m the narc in this sense feeling like it was a life contract I just wish he would pass away or get married or something so it can finally register in my brain that its over I disgust myself

      1. Insatiable Learner says:

        Ugotit, congratulations on the 34 days of NC! Way to go! Please give it some more time. I promise if you stay NC, it WILL get better. At about 6 months, you will be able to tell a huge difference in how you feel but only if you stay complete NC. Give it a chance! This seemingly unbreakable bond does break, slowly but steadily. Sending encouragement and support your way. Your freedom awaits you.

        1. Ugotit says:

          Thanks I’m certainly hoping that’s the case

      2. narc affair says:

        Congrats ugotit! Thats huge going no contact that long. It takes time and one month is not near enough time to break the addiction. Youll get there!

      3. Sniglet says:

        Well done Ugotit! 35 days NC?Congratulations and stay strong. I knew you could do it. Make it your goal – 340 days. Easy peasy. 🙂 woo hoo

    3. Kate says:

      Dear narc affair,

      I read your comment several times and it was so moving for me. You sound so sad. When I read your words, I hear you acknowledging that you know that this relationship does not appear to be good for you. You said that you wake up every day feeling anxious. I have experienced this, too. It felt to me that my body was saying, “get out!!!” and actually had physical ailments. Try not to be so hard on yourself – it takes a little help sometimes. I had a great therapist for several years and hope you might find a good coach, too. A book that I would recommend is titled “Softpower!” which might seem old-fashioned to you (it was written in the 1980s I think).

      I think that you are much stronger than you know! You are able to recognize that something is wrong, you are unhappy and realize that you will find a better life when you are ready to try to find it. Good luck on your journey!!!

      1. narc affair says:

        Hi kate…ty for your reply! I am sad at times and my conscience creates anxiety bc i know the years fly by and ive lost out on things bc of being with my narc. Ive made some wrong choices and it weighs heavily. Youre right your body knows whats good for it and whats not. Ty for the suggestions 💓

    4. Twilight says:

      Narc Affair

      You hold a strength, you just have to discover it within. Keep moving forward and you will find this strength.

      1. narc affair says:

        Hi twilight…ty for the motivating words. Just being here and around other survivors gives me strength and inspiration 🤗

        1. Twilight says:

          Hello Narc Affair

          Your welcome, we all need a safe place to be able to voice our thoughts, be validated and supported.

          HG has out done where others have tried.

          Lies come dressed for the party
          Truth walks in naked

  7. Twilight says:

    I understood how he viewed the world, yet it was when I put narcissist and him together. I have often wonder if he was trying to establish not just control over me yet dominance. We already had been back and forth, I was letting him know he never dominated me, yet he did control my emotions. He decided we needed some time apart and I agreed. I went silent, he was checking up on me durning this time, yet no word from me. A week went by he contacted me asking if I was ok. I said yes, even thou I wanted to speak with him I stayed silent another week went by. He told me he wanted some of his stuff back I had and he was giving me mine back, I didn’t want to go about things his way and told him no. That was the end. It was shortly after that they started to attack, speaking what I call twisted truth about me.

  8. Jasmine says:

    1991. I escaped by packing up my baby and leaving.
    1997. I escaped by running out the front door. He was arrested.
    2017. I escaped by running to a neighbor for help. He was arrested.

    Three different men. No more for me. I’m done.

  9. Kate says:

    I would like to add “A Face-To-Face Showdown initiated by the Victim to confront and discard the Narcissist”.

    I have done this several times.

    1. High school boyfriend who cheated with my best friend (whose boyfriend later turned gay on her – hilarious. They both are huge losers and haven’t seen or heard of them for decades.

    2. First guy I lived with- cheater. After I got his half of the rent and lined up the security guard to come up, we got into it, punctuated by me throwing in his face the keys he had made to my car (without my knowledge or consent). I haven’t seen him for over thirty years.

    3. Lame-ass Mid-Ranger who used my son to get to me – tried to force us to convert to his religion as a condition of marriage, which he thought we should do because he was the one earning the money. I told him that my soul and that of my son are not for sale!!! Haven’t seen or heard from him in over twenty years.

    4. An attractive and charming diagnosed Sociopath who I met right after lame-ass. We eventually had three dramatic face-to-face breakups and one long-distance phone breakup. He lives 3000 miles away and we have not talked in over five years.

    5. Ex-fiance Mid-Ranger who used my son to get to me also. He repeatedly tried to hoover me so I had to go to the police in my town, his town and where my gym was located. My forceful response to his litigation finally rid me of him over fifteen years ago.

    6. Another Mid-Ranger who I lived with and experienced constant push and pull, silent treatments, me leaving and coming back, finally a phone argument where I said, “that’s it”, hurriedly loaded my packed suitcases into my car and got out of there right quick! He lives 3000 miles away and I have not seen him in almost three years.

    7. Guy who turned out to be married – he couldn’t explain away the proof I had and never admitted the truth to me. That is the last time that I saw him, almost a year ago. He has a creepy voice..

    8. Upper Lesser Somatic (HG diagnosed him) – I saw him last in December 2017 before he moved 900 miles away. I kept telling him, “you ruined my life”. He doesn’t care. I have done all that I could, but it seems that he gets to walk..

  10. Dorothy says:

    I was summarily dumped – twice in one year.

    I had been abandoned three or four times over our first six years together, but after he bought a house, cars, and a sailboat he apparently became bored and took his discard to a whole new level.

    I was happily married (for the most part) for four years when my ex decided that he wanted to sell the house and build a new one out in the country – about 150 miles from where we were living. The plan was for me to pack up the house, sell it, retire from my job, and live in an apartment until we built a “dream” house of our own from his plans.

    I spent about a month packing up the house by myself and making arrangements for storage of our furniture, etc. He sold the house to the first bidder the same day it went on the market and had me quit my job with no notice because I was going to “retire” anyway.

    About a week before the check was ready from the title company, he drove me down there and wanted me to sign off so that he could pick it up on his own to cash it. He was furious that I declined to do so. The day we did go pick up the check he stopped in an office complex and asked me to come with him. He already had divorce and waiver of service papers drawn up and waiting for me to sign. I was truly stunned and nearly undone with grief, but both he and his attorney stood over me and demanded that I sign. I was told that I would get my final decree in the mail in a few weeks and that I should give them the address of where I would be living. Everything that I owned was in a storage unit except for a week’s worth of clothing and the book I was reading. He kept the $40,000 check from the house, as well as the $20,000 I received when MY daughter died two months earlier. From the minute I signed the papers he wouldn’t speak to me and I was on my own.

    I had no job or home, so I moved in with my daughter and son-in-law until I could figure out what to do. I was completely heartbroken. I called, e-mailed, and texted my ex daily and couldn’t think of anything else. He had controlled my life completely for eleven years and I had developed “learned dependence” on him (at his insistence). Finally, after about two weeks of not eating or sleeping and constant texting of my apologies for whatever it was that I had done or not done, I got him to allow me to drive four hours to talk to him in person at his new home. He’s nearly deaf, so I felt that I needed to talk to him in person rather than on the phone, where he might miss important details.

    When I met up with him I couldn’t help but cry my heart out. I was so relieved when he suggested a “reconciliation.” We would give it a year to see how it went. Looking back now, I can see the wheels turning in his head about what else he could get from me. He put a note on the bathroom mirror about how this reconciliation year would be all about him and his happiness. He had me liquidate my 401k account ($15,000) and put it into our checking account. So, we started out that year with over $75,000 of MY money in the account.

    Even though I was only gone for two weeks, he was already dating two other women – one an old girlfriend from years ago.

    I got a new job two weeks after moving back in with him, making considerably more than I was making. The long story short is that he had me put all of my pay in the checking account so that we could resume the plan of moving to the country (yes, I was that trusting). A year to the week after he first filed for divorce he did it again. I came home from work one Wednesday and he told me he had filed again and wanted me out immediately. The checking account had been systematically drained over the twelve months of “reconciliation” and there was only $136 with nearly two weeks until payday. Thankfully, I obtained two credit cards with large limits (against his wishes and without his knowledge). If I hadn’t I would have had no way of starting over.

    In the end, after another nine months we were divorced. He got every single asset as he refused to hand over his financial records (playing the poor old deaf Vietnam veteran) and bamboozling my lawyer and the judge. My narcissistic psychopath experience cost me eleven years of my life, several beatings, all of our “friends,” and ultimately over $100,000, as well as every shred of self-esteem I had.

    While a large part of me wants revenge and I’m not sure which would be more painful – seeing him again or never seeing him again – I’m remarried to a wonderful man and I don’t want to risk my hard-won emotional security by engaging my ex in a lawsuit or in person. I have to go along with the belief that God will sort it out in the end. While he may have my life’s savings (as well as his very large monthly government checks for being a 100% disabled (PTSD, seriously) vet, he will never be happy. He has no family at all and no friends. He has no job nor health insurance. Next month he’ll be 68. When I met him I thought he was so handsome and sexy, but now I see that he has the face he deserves. I know he’ll die a bitter old man, but that was his choice. Parents, step-parents, six brothers and sisters, six ex-wives, two daughters, and two step-daughters. and none will have anything at all to do with him. I wish there were some way for me to warn the new girlfriend (if there is one), but I’m not going to get involved with him ever again – in any capacity.

  11. Kylie says:

    I escaped when he snapped again, violently. This time he had a gun. He tried do get me back, then ignored me as protocol.. luckily I finally saw my situation from a different, numb point of view.

  12. W says:

    First narc which I only now know was a narc – major alcoholic. I was drinking also. I ended it by text several times but kept going back. Finally , sober, I ended it by text and blocked and didn’t look back. He’s too drunk/weak/stupid (a lesser) to make any sort of successful Hoover now.

    Second narc was , I think, exploring myself and another woman as candidate IPPS and chose her.
    I was then on and off the shelf as IPSS. I ended it in person but stayed “friends” and got sucked back as IPSS almost immediately. I ended it for a second time by text- no contact -but was still unsure and went back, Third time I ended it by text and blocked and went NO CONTACT. While I continue to process, I’m not in danger of going back as knowledge is power and I GET IT now….Thanks to you, HG

  13. GypsyAngel says:

    There was an option that you failed to mention, and I only say this because its what I did. The narcissist was arrested due to assault and attempted murder, and blocked from the Marital home and my life permanently by court order.

  14. Perse Jumped Into The Fire says:

    Twice I escaped, leaving a note. The first time I escaped, I was drawn back into the relationship immediately, He admitted that he couldn’t believed he was tricked by “that psychopathic jezebel”, and he hated her for trying to split us up, and would never see her again, and if she showed up, I was to notify the police, and she would be arrested as he had already filed a complaint against her. (LIE!)
    The second time I escaped and stayed out of the formal relationship for just over a year, but I was in contact with him after he had a “medical emergency”. His behavior was quite good, so i believed he had changed.

    I was with him when he died, but sometimes I would swear that i still haven’t been able to escape him.
    In the last 2 weeks I have been to physical therapy twice, I’m getting so knotted up over the financial mess, that i am in physical pain. With this, I keep having flashbacks of things I had tried to discuss about our finances, and his explanations and excuses, and discovering these were lies, and what or who exactly he was spending our money on.
    Which ,of course, dredges up other memories. I am either ecstatic that he’s gone, or I’m nearly ready to vomit with anger and frustration. I remember a lot of things that I’m not proud of, from trusting him at all to begin with, to doing things I would NEVER normally do in a fit of revenge.

    Now that I’ve spewed all this, I’m feeling a bit better.

    Pardon me, and thanks.

  15. 12345 says:

    I had to access my mental Rolodex of narcissists for this poll. There are so many! Family, friends, lovers…

    1. He left, I had to work it out
    2. I escaped him then went back then he left, I had to work it out
    3. I escaped her, she had to work it out
    4. I escaped her, hellish phone conversation
    5. I escaped him, shouting, crying, snotty nose, full shit show
    6. I escaped her, set clear boundaries via email (mommy)

    I’m sure there are more but those are the ones that stand out.

  16. RJ says:

    Might I add that I regret that the last choice was not an option for me to check off.

  17. Ugotit says:

    Following since my first didn’t go thru

  18. Ugotit says:

    Ending one and two he left and told me in a text ending three I left and told him by text

  19. Bekah B says:

    He disengaged.. He sent me an email about it to an account he knows I don’t check regularly in the midst of having an ongoing text messaging conversation with me in the same hour.. All of a sudden I saw a relationship bulletin between him and another female on Facebook the following month.. He hoovered, much later on.. I escaped a couple of months afterwards, sending him packing with his things out of my house, in person, and in front of his “side woman”.. He hoovered.. And a month later he disengaged and I escaped at the same time after he committed an illegal act.. He’s hoovered, since.. He keeps hoovering.. Again.. And again.. And again.. He recently asked me to never leave him because he feels safe with me.. And said I am his forever.. This narcissistic relationship dynamic is push and pull.. Back and forth.. Up and down.. It’s been almost 12 years.. When will it end?

    1. K says:

      Bekah B

      The narcissistic relationship lasts until one of you dies. It sounds crazy but it is true.

  20. Mise says:

    I think that is missing option “i escaped but, that was actually narcissist’s wish, he pulled the trigger of my escape”

  21. Lori Rutledge says:

    After I escaped, returned all his stuff, he lied and put a stalking order on me. Went to court to fight it. I won by proving he lied using his own texts and emails. He has not contacted me since Court. January 18. He is busy playing the victim saying how bad I was to him. And he has a new Primary Source.

  22. Insatiable Learner says:

    I don’t even know whether or not my formal relationship ended. Maybe you can tell me, HG. According to my consult with you, I was a shelf DLS. I have not seen the narc for over a year and a half. Last time we spoke was early October of last year. He addressed me “sweetheart” and promised to reach out soon. No word since. What do I make of this, HG?

  23. Peaceful says:

    HG! Another great poll! It was 9 months ago today that I discovered your blog and read Why Does He Blow Hot and Cold and ended it with Nex. As you know, those first few months post escape we’re brutal with the benign and malign hoovers. Your work here, your help and our consultation have been completely instrumental in my success. I remain forever grateful.

    Recovery is an ongoing process unraveling my childhood traumas that led me to the arms and company of narc after narc. If it weren’t for the brutal honesty and truth in your writing, I’m not sure where I’d be… seeking more relationships to continue the initial parental abuse I suppose.

    9 months ago when I could barely get out of bed and crying rivers of tears I couldn’t see this far ahead, but I can tell you, there is a beautiful, authentic life to be had post narcissistic abuse. You’ve taught me what to observe and avoid, and I’ve learned to express what’s acceptable in my life. Thank you HG for my freedom.

    I hope you are well!
    And would you please write a piece on emotional annihilation?


  24. Caroline says:

    I ended it in person… but the narcissist didn’t actually believe I ended it (see “Friends” Rachel & Ross “We were on a break!” TV episode), so I then had to end it again 3 months later, via telephone, when I was dating someone else…and continued to “end it” (the narcissist kept intermittently calling me)… until, finally, someone else *really* ended it.

    My new boyfriend picked up my phone one day when the narcissist called, while I was on my way home from work, and the two of them had it out. Got ugly — but was fairly effective.

  25. Alexissmith2016 says:

    Oh my god HG !!

    Where have you disappeared to ?

    Do I need to come and rescue you, like Liam Neeson in the film taken ?

  26. Sharon says:

    Does this apply to ipss? Or is the Narcissistc dynamic completely different ?

  27. Kathleen says:

    HG- another category that may be on target: you began no contact since a discard was becoming eminent- but narc called or met to ensure THEY had last word.

    My ending was ? As usual vague and lies aand my ex never admitting anything. collected my key-but not really finality-because looking back there was no finality spoken by the narc. Actually her last words were “we’ll talk “. Of course I have learned that I will never be so passive as I was with her. Huge awakening.

  28. echo says:

    I chose escaped and ended it by phone, The narcissist blocked me/refused to see me/answer my calls, The narcissist ended it in person and I escaped and ended it in person.

    In my first relationship I waited until he was at work and then went back to the apt to get all my stuff out, and told him via phone that we were done. He went absolutely ballistic. Constantly calling my work, following me around to public places to try and fight, threatening to just straight up lie to my friends, family whoever would listen in order to destroy my other relationships. But that was an empty threat. Everyone knew what his deal was already and saw through him faster than I did. They were just glad I finally got the guts to leave.

    The second was actually both of us ending it in person so I chose both him ending it and my ending it. It was a mutual separation. I didn’t even think of him as narcissistic until after we separated and things got real with money, legal obligations, etc. Then I truly saw the selfishness and lack of empathy, starving me out financially and tanking my credit where he had previously promised to help. Yet he expected me to still be there for him emotionally and drop what I was doing to attend to his needs.

    For the third I chose that he blocked me because during an argument that I felt specifically provoked/triangulated, I told him to go fuck himself. I immediately apologized but I think that was what he was going for. He stealth got me fired up, and then that one outburst triggered months of watching me free fall, with nothing but cold brutal silence from him. There was no closure, no forgiveness, just me drowning in a pool of black and him at the side of it, just beyond reach, watching. Then he tried to start up again as if we’d never met. Literally. It was crazy making.

  29. Perfectly imperfect says:

    Never ended it. I did after finding he lied and went out with another woman. It was always text never would he do anything in person that required face to face

  30. Icanseethruyou says:

    Recognizing disrespectful abusive behaviors had me go greyrock after being educated by a certain Tutor. I would have left immediately but I worked for him and was owed considerable income. My cold indifference infuriated him and our remaining time was miserable. I watched as he seduced and flaunted his new victim. His ego would not allow him to see how I was actually playing him!!

    He enjoyed his controlling, sadistic relationship with me. He took great pleasure in hurting me whenever he could both professionally and personally. Cool and calculating to the bitter end. Finally, when I as fully paid I send one short message to leave me alone. He continues to Hoover and I continue NC. Looks like I am now the one in control!

    So, HG?…….Discard or Escape?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It appears you escaped him by telling him to leave you alone.

  31. Ann says:

    I’ve had 4 major narcissist in my life:
    – my mother died in 2006
    – my ex husband – I haven’t talked to him in 10 yrs
    – 1st boyfriend post divorce – as of 3/3/18 I will have cut off communication for a yr & this was by far the most addictive relationship & hardest to walk away from. Yahooooooo!!!
    – most recent boyfriend & the most manipulative & skilled love bomber – I finally told him I would never get back w/ him in front of his neighbor & he has been blocked for 6 months. I thought he was the best all around package of a man I would ever find.

    Now I’m dating a wonderful, even better full package man that was also married to a narcissist. We have a lot of fun & laugh & there is no drama. Sadly, I still have my antennae up wondering if at some point he will disappear & reveal that he is a narcissist. He is an empath so I don’t think he will disappear, but I’m still working on that fear.

  32. K says:

    My MMRN ended it in person.

    Since The Cat’s been away, I have decided to play.

    Being shelved makes me restless, so I went to the library and took out The Gaslight Effect by Dr. Robin Stern.

    Halfway through I stopped reading because it was terrible. I could feel the FOG descending.

    She never mentioned (up until pg. 117) cluster Bs, narcissistic or even the euphemized: character disordered. Many of these women were in healthy relationships, according to Dr. Stern, but were being gaslighted…hmmmm.

    She did not instruct them to leave, only how NOT to react to the gaslighting. Many of her patients got progressively worse during their treatment with her. Some would enter what she called the third stage (a.k.a., the FOG).


    Emotional Apocalypse = devaluation
    Good-Guy Gaslighter = midranger
    The Glamour Gaslighter = respite/devaluation hoovers
    The intimidator = lesser

    Her patients were subjected to other abuse/manipulations, as well, but she COMPLETELY ignored them and didn’t label them. I figured them out; here’s the list.

    present and absent silent treatments
    heated and cold fury
    word salads
    circular conversations
    threat, intimidation & control
    pathological jealousy

    There is a chapter titled: Should I Stay or Should I Go?, however, I could not read anymore because these women were in situ, being abused and suffering badly and it broke my heart.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      K, this book was referenced by The Daily Mail (UK newspaper) online and referred to gas lighting, although the article never actually explained why it was called that. Furthermore, the article diluted the impact of gas lighting making it sound like some minor dating problem. This drew heavy criticism in the comments section where I was rather pleased to see my work recommended twice by commenters, so whoever did that, if you are reading, good work and HG approves!

      1. NarcAngel says:

        Re: Making gaslighting seem like some minor dating problem.

        I know your talents are spread thin over many mediums and it has been touched on previously, but have you given any more thought to a book about exposing the REAL truth behind cute little terms such as breadcrumbing, ghosting and benching? Pisses me off everytime I see them.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I have NA, I have been planning a work which acts as a crossover between places where relationships are discussed in general terms (where those terms reside and where narcissism his not mentioned) and the arena where narcissism is known and discussed. It is establishing a presence amongst the dating/relationship/agony aunt world which REPEATEDLY and often misses that narcissism is the cause of the issues (and of course results in poor and dangerous advice being provided) so that people who first go there learn that it is not about ghosting but it is part of the dynamic of narcissism which is far more serious for them. It is also something where my excellent readers can do much to advocate the reality.

          1. NarcAngel says:


          2. Kathleen says:

            Glad to hear this HG! Yes- I have heard others on this forum comment how this type of social situation should be taught in high school’s worldwide. I will say that through my discussions of what happened with me recently..talking with a friend of mine she realized she was also entangled with a narcissist! she has thanked me for the information and for encouraging her to go no contact. And she also is succeeding with months of NC.
            I also will definitely bring up the fact that if people are experiencing games in a relationship they are quite likely involved with someone in the cluster B area. There is no reason to play any kind of game in an interpersonal relationship.I think people think about games that people play in a casual manner but they do not realize how dangerous and damaging entanglement with a manipulator can be.
            My disentanglemnt has been a very eye-opening experience. I was in a trance – lazy and being played. Now I am grateful for all of your writings ( and I also have others who I read at times I like too) I’m wondering your thoughts on them at HG. But yes this whole thing- I am also saddened by the imperfections of the human. I guess I read things and thought kinda like the people you see on TV when the murderer lives next door to them… Like this will never happen to me ! I can handle this -I have the upper hand -I got this. But I didn’t. I hope to return to innocence again with someone.

      2. NarcAngel says:

        Oh and Hoovering is now called Orbiting.

        1. K says:

          I made a note of Orbiting and when you have a chance click on the link below and look at the other Modern Dating Terms. I think Slow Fade might be Shelving. The book was terrible.


      3. K says:

        I googled the article and it is no longer accepting comments, so I read a few and they were not flattering. I am happy to read that your work was recommended. That book is so bad that it is detrimental to the reader.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Thanks K.

      4. K says:

        I watched an interview with Meredith (Love Letters) last night and she basically stated that she has no degree or education that would make her qualified to give relationship advice. No surprise there!

      5. Somewhere over the rainbow says:


        Some years ago, I described nex’s behavior to the psychologist, using (instinctively) the term “puppeteer” and all I received was “the man is a little manipulator (so what?)”. Really? He’s a full narcissist, albeit not a physically violent one but he manages quite well- if one lacks a strong self-confidence- to psychologically bring her down. My husband diagnosed nex better saying “he’s the kind of man who could have destroyed you on long term, he’s the most evil of all you’ve met because he’s older and smarter” but I thought he’s just jealous when in reality he was a good friend before being my husband.

        Only hearing the truth from you turned that perspective as 100% objective in my mind.
        Thank you!

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You are welcome.

        2. K says:

          My 8-year old daughter knows more about NPD than the school psychologist.

      6. Somewhere over the rainbow says:

        Hi K,

        Worse yet, I’m not 100% sure the psychologist is not a N…

        1. K says:

          Somewhere over the rainbow
          I wouldn’t be surprised if the psychologist was a narcissist. There is a second grade teacher in my daughter’s elementary school who, I strongly suspect, is a narcissist based on her iterative pattern of behavior. (gas lights, fury and lacks empathy)

  33. Notnecessary says:

    I am grateful I found this blog, I have so much more clarity within myself. It is interesting that as a feeler I attract and am attracted to the narcs, but what I failed to realize up until now, is that these relationships, all of them (there is most definitely a theme in my life) are meant to mirror me.

    They reflect the love I have bestowed on others to the love if have found I must bestow on myself. Until I can love me ( which supports my “believe in love” self) I can not any more love the narc than he can me. This is so ironic and enlightening, most of all freeing!

    HG ~ Thank You!

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