The issue of our kind impregnating a victim is yet another tool that exists within our manipulative toolkit to enable us to achieve our aims. I daresay some of you may find it abhorrent and reprehensible that such an act as conception and the bringing forth of new life should also fall within our repertoire of machinations. Others of you will not be surprised, long-used to the notion that nothing is off limits to us. Everything is in play. As ever,the issue of impregnation and the forthcoming birth is very much something that is relevant to our kind and as ever, I provide you with the truth of how it is regarded by our kind, no matter how unpalatable it may be.

There are several ways in which the act of conception, pregnancy and the issue of children are used to further our dark agendas.

  1. The Promise

The promise to give you children at the early stage of the relationship is always done with a view to ensuring that you succumb to our seduction. See how committed we are to you? We want to have children with you. You. Nobody else. What other commitment underlines and reinforces the strength of our desire to you? The joining of two people in love and creating new life together is the epitome of commitment. How your eyes fill with joyous tears and that look of spreading delight crosses your face when you realise that this wonderful, brilliant and magnificent person wants to have children with you. Whether it is impregnating you or us bearing your child, this promise is readily wheeled out in order to clinch the deal. What you should also have regard to that expressing a desire to make you pregnant/become pregnant by you is actually all about reinforcing our dominance over you. From the male narcissistic perspective, the act of having you take our seed deep inside of you, subjugated to our desire to create new life underlines our power. You are not only allowing us to enter your most private of places but you are allowing us to deposit our very essence there as well. To us this is the ultimate act of conquest. We have vanquished all resistance and there, deep in your sacred and intimate place we have placed ourselves. From the female perspective, the act of becoming pregnant by you underlines how we have subsumed you into us. We have engulfed you and drawn that which defines you into our very deepest of places. We have similarly conquered you.

Not only is this promise made early in the seduction, it will be made irrespective of existing children we may have and that you may have. In our minds they are all just tests demonstrating our fertility for this most supreme of acts, the union of you and I. If we are considerably younger than you and you are female, aware of the ticking of the biological clock this promise of wanting to impregnate you will be used as a golden carrot to dangle in front of you. You are on the cusp of being barren, sterile years may well beckon and here we are, youthful, virile, fertile ready to not only give you our perfect love but to offer that perfect love by way of impregnating you. It is a powerful and irresistible promise which many find exhilarating and captivating. Add to this mix any existing issues in terms of trying to conceive or give birth and this vulnerability will be exploited even further. We want to give you what you want, only because it will give us what we want.

This promise will be launched at you from early on and will initially seem like a loving and romantic comment to make, but it is one that is borne out of the need to dominate and conquer and is a promise that will be made good for the second reason.

  1. Binding

There is no better way to bind you to us than the issue of children. The creation of children means that you are far less likely (and indeed in many cases unable) to escape us. You want the perfect image of a family and with someone who has arrived with such a glorious love for you, who better than us to have children with? We know that because as an empathic person you will dedicate yourself to their upbringing and therefore allow us reduce our own involvement save when it suits us. As you know, when you need support we are invariably found to be lacking. We choose having children as a means of tying you tight to us, ensuring you will provide plenty of fuel for us and have a huge obstacle in your way when it comes to trying to escape us. We have no desire to have children with you because of anything to do with you. We are using you as an incubator. We are like the insect which arrives and lays its eggs in another host causing them to do all the hard work. Once those eggs hatch you will be consumed, cast aside, just as that insect would with the empty husk of the carrier whose role has been completed. You are an appliance that supplies fuel. You are an appliance which is there to carry our offspring leaving us free to cultivate other fuel sources. You will receive little or no help from us, or be doted on, dependent on whether the pregnancy remains in the golden period. Whichever it is we expect you to bring forth our issue without complication or problem because these children are required for the third and fourth reasons.

  1. Pawns

What better device to use as a means of triangulation than one’s own children? These pawns are used in the ongoing competition with you.

“I love you more than mummy, you know that don’t you?”

“I’m your favourite aren’t I?”

“Let’s not tell daddy about this.”

“Mummy doesn’t really love you, but I do.”

Such utterances are issued in order to ensure that the children understand who is their master and commander. They will be used to provide us with fuel as they find themselves to our manipulations also but more than anything else they are a necessary and brilliant device that is used to triangulate with you.

“I will let you but daddy won’t.”

“Isn’t Mummy grumpy today?”

“Here, take this money but don’t tell your mother.”

“Aren’t you happy you look just like me?”

Your parenting of these children will be questioned. What you once did so well, will become the subject of scrutiny and criticism. Any perceived failure on the part of the advancement of these children – in education, popularity, sport and social competence – will be laid at your door. You have failed them. This heartless and savage criticism, attacking your competency as a parent is a fantastic method of causing you to spill fuel. All the while to the outside world we will appear the doting dad, the marvellous mother, the perfect parent. Little does the façade reveal of the tyrannical reign that emerges behind that closed door. The tears and sobbing never cross the threshold.

  1. Legacy

We wish to live forever. Someone as brilliant as ourselves deserves this and children provide the ideal conduit for securing that legacy. Our magnificence lives on through the accomplishments and achievements of children.

“He gets his brains from me.”

“Yes I was a champion sprinter as well.”

“He has inherited my artistic side.”

“I always knew he would follow me into the profession.”

“It is in the good genes I gave her; I always knew she would be a brilliant swimmer.”

The child never achieves anything. We caused those achievements. The credit will always be hoovered up by us. Sucking the admiration and fuel from onlookers as we grasp the glory and seize it for ourselves. We never give credit to anybody else and we make no adjustment to this selfishness with our children. They are just a further extension of ourselves. We attached you to us as an extension but we actually created these extensions, that is how powerful we consider ourselves to be.

We believe that children are the future. Our future.

82 thoughts on “Impregnate

  1. Bekah B says:

    Got a question for you, HG.. What in the case of a male narcissist who has explicitly stated he does not want any more children? My narcissist had a 9 yr old before he got me pregnant in 2015.. He said he wanted an abortion, but that went against my beliefs, so I had our daughter in 2016.. She’s 2 and a half so far in 2019, but I am now also currently pregnant with our second child.. Again, in general, he stated over these 2 and a half years that he didn’t want any more children, but yet he took no precaution in preventing a pregnancy on 3 separate occasions in October.. Now he’s disengaged from me and will not acknowledge the fact I am pregnant.. I can’t figure out if he did this on purpose or what.. So, is it possible that the narcissist can use this as a manipulation tactic to keep me “bound” and possibly away from other men, while he seduces and embeds another IPPS, even though he explicitly stated he doesn’t want children?

    1. HG Tudor says:


      1. Bekah B says:

        Smh.. I hate this..

  2. tlynn says:

    My jaw fell when I read thru #3 Pawns. My ex narcissist was holding our son who was two weeks old. He then tells my son “We don’t love mama do we?” . At the time I was so hurt ,but looking back 20 years later I understand that the man is 5 years old and doesn’t know better . I ended up staying and he lost everything 20 years later . My grown son told me just yesterday ” I am going to spit on dads grave when he dies”. How fitting. I wonder why God created these humans knowing that he would later destroy them? What purpose do they serve? I caught onto his shit , I stayed and played the game , he lost .

    1. Lori says:


      I realize it is fascinating to analyze what may or may not be going on but for now try not to. It is feeding your addiction. The only thing you need to know is he is a narcissist with a pregnant wife which means this all ends right here right now.

      Unfortunately, I speak from plenty experience I have had 2 in my life. With one ipps and the other candidate ipss. There is no happy ending for ANYONE with these people. It is not possible. You only e periebcr happiness during the golden period or during seduction but they have an expiration date and then its over and I mean over

      You have to accept that there is nothing there for you. Literally nothing. Even if this guy wasn’t a narc there would be nothing there for you but you know this guy is a narc. Walk away from the slot machine it’s just gonna keep taking your money.

      It is not possible for this man to love you or anyone else

  3. gabbanzobean says:

    “As a side note: the Narc has blocked me and unblocked probably 10 or more times now. It is comical.”

    I have never been blocked. Just threatened with blocking but it has always been empty threats. He unfollowed me on one social media platform but not another. But never has blocked, only threatens it but never does it. Email/text/phone calls, the same. Always fucking empty threats.

    1. Jenna says:

      Hi gabs,

      You are replying with facts, eg. that he did not block you. What about your feelings? I don’t mean actions, so pls don’t reply with ‘i feel like f**king his brains out.’

      1. Lisa says:

        Challenge fuel why would be block you? You give him what he wants. He has no reason to. They block you to bring you in line. In his mind you are in line. He calls on you when needed and you do not tell him no or threaten his authority of superiority of course he’s not going to block you. You are a fuel provider.

        The blocking starts when you don’t conform or submit to their will

      2. Lisa says:

        WHen he unblocked me last time I wanted to needle him and say awww you aren’t ready to give me up. That’s cute lol but I did not poke the bear. Ignoring him is so much more fun, it doesn’t matter how cool and aloof he acts my not contacting him drives him nuts which makes me happy

      3. Lori says:

        I love messing with the asshole I leave my messenger chat availability on. He can see I’m online talking to people just not him. Awww sucks for him

    2. Lori says:

      Update to side note: think ignoring doesn’t bother them? Think again. My lesser has tons of online supply yet I see him checking his phone rather frequently. I know it’s to see if I’ve messaged. Days have passed now and I was counting the seconds until he did something to gain my attention and bingo ! He did yesterday by posting in a group that we are both in where he is able to see if I viewed his post. Nope. I made sure I didn’t look when that did not work, today he started commenting on a mutual friends page so I would see him so I would text and again he gets no response. It is hysterical to watch a grown man stomp his little foot so to speak screaming Mommy notice me !!! Mom Mom Mom watch me!


      So funny! Ignoring them really does drive them mad whether the have tons of supply or not. They always want the supply they aren’t getting. Reminds them of their childhood wounds. That is what they equate love with deprevation.

  4. Lacy says:

    HG – One of my best friends

    – has a greater narc father, empath mother and mid mid ranger brother

    – met a guy and got married after 6 months (he was much higher up than her in the company they worked for when they met like he was the Vice President and she was a temp and he’s 5 years older than her.)

    – got married in November and had her first baby in July (only 8 months later)

    – has been married for 4 years and has 3 kids under 3.

    – she is a stay at home mom and he works from home too and she said
    he locks himself in his home office so the kids can’t come in and bother him

    I feel like her husband might be a narcissist. What do you think HG? Does he sound like a narcissist to you??

    1. HG Tudor says:

      There are certainly indicators there but one would need more information for the purposes of a determinative assessment.

  5. Perse, Queen of Hell says:


    Now that I have calmed, I have some questions for you. The answers to these questions are for you.

    What reason(s) exactly are you jealous of his wife?

    Who does piano guy stand in for in the previous relationship(s) in your life?

    Who in your life has told you or shown you that you don’t deserve to be loved? Do you agree with them? Why or why not?

    What ever answers you think or feel are not wrong. They may be generated from emotional thinking, but they are what you experience.They will give you information. Information is power.

    If HG would agree, would using him as a stand in for your N, and talking with him about your side, and listening to him from your Ns side bring you any clarity or closure? Better to let HG tell you the truth, and reject the lies of this Narcissist.

    It is time to know yourself now.
    Time to tell Gabrielle all about Gabrielle. Tell Gabrielle what is good about Gabrielle. Tell Gabrielle about the hurt and the pain. Tell Gabrielle what you need. Don’t let anybody hurt Gabrielle anymore, and she will help protect you. Let others help you and Gabrielle to heal now. (sounds odd, but you need to talk to yourself AND really listen to yourself)

    I wish you peace and serenity,

    1. Jenna says:

      Perse (and gabs),

      Very well said. Pls do think about the answers to these q’s gabs.

      1. Lori says:

        As a side note: the Narc has blocked me and unblocked probably 10 or more times now. It is comical. As I observe this you see how terribly addicted they are as well. Is so damn funny when you think about it. It’s like dealing with a 6 year old

      2. I do understand it is addiction, I have been addicted myself. As i have posted elsewhere, perhaps in a bit too much detail, it is harder to break this addiction than it is to quit caffeine, nicotine, AND heroin.

        Some addicts get anxiety if they feel they are being forced to give up their addiction.

        This addiction would probably be best treated in a residency, fully immersive program, but I don’t think that any exists.

        This is an addiction that rewires your brain, and not for the good.
        Also, intermittent reinforcement is MORE addicting than free access to supply.

        So we know there is very little professional/medical help to deal with this particular addiction.
        Maybe the support of so many voices is overwhelming. Maybe the need to validate her experience is obsessive compulsive.

        The key to unlocking this is her. What is rockbottom to her.? Will it be losing her children? Well it be catching an incurable STD?
        I don’t know. She has to find out what it is she needs. And if she can’t do it herself, she must ask for and/or accept the help and support offered her.

        As much as it pains us to see her suffer, we cannot do more.
        I would hate to have to ignore her to stop my own pain of recognition.

        At least there are many of us here to hear her cries of pain. I would encourage her to continue posting, if for nothing else than she will have a record of his abuse and what it does to her, that she can return to to validate her experience when she is ready to see it.

        She has to see she is worthy. She has to understand that he does not give to her. He takes away from her. She has to put the lie to his protestations, especially that he is a good man, and that she is causing him to act immorally. He will act that way because of what HE is. Even if she never came into his life, HE WILL CONTINUE HIS ABUSIVE WAYS AND BLAME OTHERS.

        He is able to use her because of her own perceived shortcomings. They are either not real, or need to be addressed.
        She should return to therapy, and notify the therapist that she needs treatment for her ADDICTION.

        We want to see Gabrielle healing, but we cannot force her, not even for her own good.

        It must be her decision.
        She knows we are here for her.
        She knows it, even if she may feel otherwise sometimes.

        1. Lisa says:


          Get involved in something whether it’s yoga, painting or fitness. Something maybe that you can measure progress. For me it’s fitness. I’m in better shape post Narc than I have ever been. It’s helps divert my attention it puts the focus back on me and improves my confidence seeimg that I’m getting stronger and more for every day. That’s for me not him but there is an added bonus that it likely drives him nuts but it’s just the a byproduct and a bonus. Find what works for you

      3. Catherine says:

        Well said Perse, I agree with your every word. It’s an obsessive addiction that obliterates life and spins on and on out of control. Probably it needs some sort of breaking point and I hope Gabrielle will reach that point soon. She deserves better than what she’s making do of now. We’ve all been there one way or another, that’s why we’re here and we can all overcome it, I’m sure of that. I was deeply immersed in that kind of obsession myself and being the romantic I consider myself to be I wish that I now in hindsight could say that it was worth it; that at least I felt immense love and passion like never before in my life; that I at least now know what it feels like and that I’m capable of those strong emotions; but no. It wasn’t worth it. At all. It wasn’t even love. How can there be love when you end up selling your body, mind and soul to someone who abuses you? How can there be love when you end up pleading on your knees, living without remembrance of the proud person you once were? How can it be love when you demean yourself? The obsession stole years of my life, months, days, minutes and precious seconds, it was a carnage, a wreckage, a journey into an abyss of complete darkness where evil and the loss of hope resides. There were no cracks in that darkness, no light to be seen, I was lost and I had no compass to bring me safely home. I’ve never cried so much in my whole life, I’ve never felt such stress, anxiety, pain and confusion. It isn’t worth it Gabrielle. It slowly chokes the life out of you, it annihilates the sweet and innocent person you are, it’s all that life should never be. And the longer you stay obsessed the worse it gets. The sooner you realise you need help the less the damage.

        What I did bring with me from this frightful experience are some valuable lessons though. I’ve had to take a good look at myself and how I participated in creating that darkness because I never really tried to find my way out, I somehow willingly helped to put those bars in place in the sad cage where I ended up living my miserable day to day existence. I’ve had and still have to face some hard facts about myself and of exactly what in my early years formed me into someone who accepts and stays in an abusive relationship for as long as I did; at times it’s an amazing journey, at times it’s tedious and it demands an immense effort that’s necessary for the healing to take place. I’m only starting out now and I need to remember who I am and rebuild myself. That’s what narcissistic abuse does to its victims. Destroys our innermost being. But then there’s joy again and I’m slowly rediscovering those longed for emotions day by day now. Life is about being wild at heart and living with a free spirit. Running along a beach at sunset with my dress flapping around me, breathing in fresh air again, keeping my friends and my family close, laughing hysterically at stupid jokes, waking up with a sense of fulfillment without needing another persons validation, watching intently how the sun filtered through the blinds in my bedroom makes beautiful patterns on my wooden floor, loosing myself in those patterns, feeling happiness again. That’s what life’s about.

        1. Lisa says:

          one day realize you were in a cell that was never locked. We imprisoned ourselves. You only realize this when you fully accept what they are and that there is no cure and will never be any meaningful change.

          You were a victim of fraud. Love Fraud. Some people steal money these people steal love.

  6. Challenge Fuel says:

    Mr. Piano Recital texted me today with the latest excuse after his usual 2 week stint of silence. “The wife” is pregnant with their second child. Yes he actually texted it like that….his text said “The wife is pregnant and I am swimming emotionally”. (eye roll)

    This news of course blindsided me. Granted I have children of my own already from my prior marriage AND I have been “fixed” after making the choice that I was done having children. Yet I still feel emotional and jealous over this news. I know I am taking a risk by posting this as some of you are no doubt going to reply and wag your finger at me over feeling this way, and that is fine. That is the risk I take opening up and sharing on a public forum.

    But the fact remains that I am emotional and jealous. It has nothing to do with wanting to have children though. It is just more of a reminder that he will never be with me. And I am jealous that is reaffirms her status with him, not necessarily over the fact she is pregnant. And of course I cannot help but think “Well gee if his wife is having another baby with him things MUST be sunshine and rainbows”.

    Because really on “Planet Normal” why would she have a baby with him while putting up with (what you all say) she likely endures. I guess I am not one to talk since I am still letting him sniff around and engage with me intermittently. But I guess “Planet Narc” is a different story. Oh snap, there goes my “emotional thinking” again.

    At least my prior thoughts of revenge have now been squashed. As much as I would have loved to expose him, that window has now closed and that ship has long sailed. There is no way I will be able to live with myself going through with that now knowing that she is now pregnant.

    I want to feel sorry for her yet the jealousy is still too much.

    1. Lisa says:

      Well this great news but in reality it changes nothing. These people get multiple people pregnant. You are thinking this would change things for a normal person and it would but he isn’t normal

      The only person who changes things is you. You think you want revenge but reality you want control to bring him back to you. I think if you are honest with yourself that’s why you want “revenge” that’s code for I want him back. No judgement here. We have all been there

      1. Challenge Fuel says:

        Piano man’s wife. I wish I could be her. I don’t want to be me. I want to be her. I know that’s a fucked up thing to wish for but it’s where I’m at.

        I recall an article HG wrote where there was a dialogue going between narc and his GF and the narc said to the GF, “I want to be you”.

        I guess this makes me a narc now. Oh well. It was nice knowing you all.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Not it doesn’t

      2. Lisa says:

        Nope my guess is your are just very codependent.

        Why would you want to be her. He referred to her as “the wife” like an “it”. Hoe would you like to be her and be pregnant having your husband texting another woman? Speaking of you like an object ? That’s awful. I doubt you want to be her

      3. Morning sun says:

        Challenge Fuel, of course you do. A lot of us DSs have felt that way at some point or other. It took me years to stop being blinded by the shine of the golden period.

        My point is – it’s okay to feel that way. You feel what you feel. You might need to keep engaging with him for those feelings to change. I doubt that I would have had the presence of mind to see the reality behind the mirror, had I ended it sooner. It had to get truly horrible and stay horrible for me to gain understanding.

        I’ve always been one to stick it out to the very end, which has been detrimental for obvious reasons, but it also has the advantage that once I’m done with someone, I’m beyond done. No going back, as not only have all the bridges been burnt, the flow of the entire river has been completely redirected.

      4. Challenge Fuel says:


        Here comes my overthinking breakdown:

        It was a brief text exchange. When I asked him how he was doing he rattled off a list of “woe is me” excuses for his silence before mentioning the pregnancy. He said he was sick, and his daughter was sick (his daughter is ALWAYS sick, I hope that is a recycled lie he continues to use as I have heard it thousands of times, because if not all I can is OMG that poor kid). Then finally it was “and the wife is pregnant” added to the end. Then he was feeling depressed, had a bad headache and was “emotionally swimming” and needed some space. End communication.

        I asked a few follow up Q’s like if it was planned or a surprise and he did not answer. And he has been silent ever since.

        When you say…

        “”Why would you want to be her. He referred to her as “the wife” like an “it”.”

        Yes my mind went there too! Referring to her as “the wife” rather than “my wife” or even just by her name, he could have said “S is pregnant” but no. So yeah that jumped out at me. And as jealous of her as I am all I really have to go on right now is that he basically “devalued and objectified” her by referring to her as “THE”. I keep telling myself that if he loved and respected her he would not have referred to her in that manner.

        Now we have had prior chats where he has used “my” to refer to her and has also used her name. Perhaps he is upset about the pregnancy and not happy about it. Generally he airs ALL his business on social media for attention (and averages about 300 likes per post)….the social media is like a ghost town lately. So that tells me that this is most likely NOT welcome news. Or as others have said, it is a lie. I guess only time will tell.

    2. Jenna says:

      Hi gabs,

      Like i said, i think he treats her well. I think it may be a stepford deval situation. You need to realize that it is immoral to remain with him knowing that he is hurting you, and that he is hurting his wife by lying to her. Even if you leave, he will get someone to replace you, so you will not exactly remedy the situation. But at least you know you will be doing the right thing. It hurts alot i know. He tricked you at the beginning. Don’t be tricked any longer. Seize the power!

    3. narc affair says:

      Hi Gabs… it may seem like they are walking off into the sunset with this new pregnancy but i assure you once the newness wears off and especially once the babys here and the hard work starts thats when he will be even more up to his shananigans. I dont say this to make you hopeful bc theres no future for you two but i say it bc ive seen it play out before. A baby wont fix problems. It actually can unravel a marriage with problems even quicker.
      Dont envy her bc in the end shes going to experience a lot of heartache and probably an ugly divorce. Youre luckier bc youre out of a bad marriage and have the opportunity to start fresh.
      When you feel envious of his wife take a second to imagine being her while her hubbys out screwing multiple women behind her back. Theres nothing to envy.

    4. Catherine says:

      Gabrielle, I understand how painful this is for you and I just want to tell you that I don’t think people are wagging their fingers at you, it’s not meant that way even though I realise it might seem so to you. I think most of us here genuinely worry about you and want you to please get help for your obsession with this man that brought you so much grief. If you try to detail your obsession with him, what does he have that you think you can’t find elsewhere in someone who loves you back? When I tried to do that I realised there wasn’t actually much to love about mine; he didn’t treat me well at all; I think I was obsessed with the obsession of him in the end if that makes sense? I was traumatically bound to him, but how can there be true love where there’s also abuse? Do you think his wife being now pregnant will help you detach? Could it be the breaking point you need?

      1. Lisa says:


        Yaaas!!!! Obsession with obsession. These people cause chemical reactions in your brain associated with addiction. It’s not live it’s addiction. Hell even they know one wants them do they create addiction. They learn how to bind you otherwise they know you will leave them.

        The answers never lie in why did he do this or that the answers lie in what did we get from these people? What were we missing in our life that caused us to put up witb or even crave completely unacceptable behavior. Even though post discard it’s still all about them and their disorder, it really isn’t. Gabrielle instead of asking why why why about him start directing the questions to yourself. Why do you tolerate that behavior? What are you getting from it? How does it make YOU feel etc… forget him there is only one answer to questions regarding him and that’s he’s a Nsrcissisr plain and simple.

    5. Perse, Queen of Hell says:


      It doesn’t matter that I think he is probably cruel to his wife, and Jenna thinks he is probably kind.

      It doesn’t matter that your family is the right size for you, and that his wife is pregnant.

      What matters is he told you this to hurt you so that he can now drink of your negative fuel. He told you for no other reason.

      Not to delay/spoil your plans of revenge.

      Just to cause you pain!!!!!! He is cruel, and hate filled, no matter what he is reflecting back to you!

      You have to break this addiction, and recover from what he has done to you. What he is going to do to you, as long as you keep any communication open.

      If I could give you an eraser to remove him from your mind, heart and life, I would bring it to your door and put it in your hand.

      Gather your defenses: friend(s), consult, therapist, No Contact. Don’t let this torture go on. Your children need a clear minded healthy self respecting mother to nurture and protect them.

      You don’t need someone playing mind games with you. And you really really need to love yourself, and forgive yourself for letting someone hurt you like this. It has to stop for you to move forward.

      Please make this the last straw that breaks your addiction.

      I’m still offering to pay for your consult!

      What support do you need, that you will accept?


      1. Lori says:

        It is addiction nothing more nothing less. It is addiction to the chemicals released in your brain during seduction.

        This is not love! You do no love someone who repeatedly harms you. You don’t.

        He will never be good to you and I won’t even say good I’ll lower it to decent to you. He IS NOT capable. It is the same as holding up a picture in front of a blind man and asking him what he sees. Nothing cause he can’t see. The Narc cannot love you or anyone else. There is endless data and material from very respected psychiatrists that will tell you they do not love. IT IS AN ALL PERVASIVE DISORDER and his wife is no exception. He can love no one but himself

        I wouldn’t even put it past him to have made it up so he could hurt you and then tell you later she miscarried. Believe nothing out of these whackos mouths

        1. Jenna says:

          Hi lori,

          These are all excellent points and you are right, he may be making it up to hurt her.

          For myself, i have not had contact for a few months, and now that i look back, i realize that something was always ‘off’ with him. They are truly disordered and the disorder manifests itself through certain peculiarities in their speech. Many things he said would just not make sense, be way over the top, language too flowery, or just not very ‘normal’ sounding. I am so glad i’m out, but if i had not been discarded i don’t know if i would have come to this acceptance, due to the emotional thinking/infection/addiction/dependence. We can tell gabs to control her ET but ultimately it is she who will decide when to do that. We don’t know what her breaking point is in order to not go back. His discard was my breaking point. I decided that if he can be ruthless enough to ghost, i won’t contact him. His cowardice was right in front of my face and it sickened me.

      2. Lori says:


        It’s word salad. They do not function cognitively as we do. Blah blah blah lies or truth they use whatever works for them. Sometimes truth serves their manipulative goals but more often it’s lies

        Everyone entangles suffers with addiction. They saw our addictive personality that’s why they chose us. They must bind you or they know you will leave so they choose people whom they know will struggle to leave them.

        Like any other addiction, some have deeper addiction than others. And my guess is there are deep addiction issues here. I get it. I struggle with this too and sometimes it’s Baby steps with I will not contact him. Cold turkey doesn’t always work for everyone although often it’s best.

        Gabrielle maybe start with you will not contact him or reply or if you do reply make him wait and reply with one word keep cutting the contact until it’s few and far between then work toward blocking. This approach seems to work for me. Everyone is different as long as the goal remains getting him out of your life and reaching indifference. Trust indifference is the worst wound you could ever inflict

      3. Annie says:

        Hi Gabs, take a look at all of these beautiful people rallying around you. They are truly rooting for you to overcome this addiction, to love yourself. They have already said so many wise and wonderful things that I don’t have too much to add. But for what it’s worth,
        1. I’m so sorry. His announcement must have hit you like a ton of bricks. I have been hit with a ton of bricks…I know how heavy they are.
        2. You may not be financially prepared for this, but please consider spending money on therapy. I see depression and addiction in your words. It would be money well spent. You are no good in any role, mother, friend, employee, if you are not mentally
        (And physically) healthy.
        3. Someone who cares about you would never deliver news like that to you. He cares only of himself, and his wife is simply the incubator for his newest toy. He will be so excited for that newest toy, but he wil soon tire of it like all the others.
        4. I will leave you with a story of a beautiful dear friend of mine. A true beauty, inside and out. Thin, petite, intelligent, kind, and very religious. She married this fella (also so religious) and had two beautiful children, and she quit her job to be a stay-home mom. The next thing I know, I’m meeting with her and she is skinny as a rail. Her husband is leaving them for another woman. The kicker of course is that he had been trying to get my friend pregnant again when he told her about this affair. And poor him, he didn’t know who to choose. So he stayed in his marriage until he could figure it out. And here is my beautiful friend trying desperately to pull out all the stops and auditioning for him again so he picks her, dressing up for bed, never letting him see her in sweats or no make-up, etc., all the time believing she must have done something to cause this. She desperately wanted to keep her family together. Making sure everything was perfect for this pussy dipshit. She ends up having an ectopic pregnancy and has to drive herself to the hospital because she can’t get in touch with him-he wasn’t at work and she came to find out later he was with his mistress. He chose the other woman in the end, and my dear friend was probably at the lowest point in her life-she didn’t even know who she was anymore. And she had two kids to take care of (and to somehow coparent with this jackass). I am happy to say she rediscovered herself and healed for herself and her children, and she has moved on to a more beautiful life. That is what is in store for piano mans wife. When he finds a new favorite toy and completely tires of his old boring set, She will be history. And she will turn out better for it. Some day you too will be glad you stopped being his favorite toy-but please talk to someone who can help you find your own healing.

      4. Jenna says:

        Hi lori,

        The word salad was pretty easy to spot after i got used to it. What i am talking abt is the use of over the top language, like talking in poetry, or talking in metaphors, or talking in wrong metaphors that would not really apply to the situation because he obviously misinterpreted the metaphors he read on ig lol!! I was so impressed by it at the beginning thinking he is sensitive and caring. Later, it became somewhat comical and discouraging at the same time. It was discouraging because it made me realize that he just doesn’t ‘get it.’ He doesn’t get the basic principles of humanity – caring, helping, forgiving.
        Eg. Him: ‘A flower will die if plucked of its petals’ (or something like that i can’t remember exactly)

        Me, thinking: umm what? That’s not what I was talking about. That analogy is misplaced right now, and along with other ideologies you’ve used, it’s becoming clearer to me that you cannot think for yourself at all when it concerns feelings.

      5. Gone crazy. Be back later. says:

        Gabrielle, beautiful soul.

        This is dedicated to you

    6. Lori says:

      If you really really want revenge and revenge is your true motive, IGNORE him completely and totally. Nothing kills a Narcissist to his very core than complete and utter indifference to him. No anger no love no nothing

      That is true revenge.

    7. abrokenwing says:

      I’m sorry you’re hurting Gabrielle…

      I hope you realize you deserve a real , true love. One that you don’t have to obsess over , over analyse and question.
      This could be a good turning point if you find a strength to do what is right and best for you.

    8. Bibi says:

      Gabby, no judgement here. But again, this only reaffirms what an asshole Piano Man is to text you that info. Really, you need to go no contact so he can’t upset you like this. Don’t let him decide how your day goes. If I could give you a hug, I would.

      Really, the healing is about loving yourself more. You are a unique person in this world of billions. You have experiences and memories that are your own and will never belong to anyone else. Honor them. What makes you the person you are is what counts.

      I understand the jealousy, as I have been there. But I can also tell you it feels great to say poof! You have no power over me.

      BTW: Yes, I find David Bowie incredibly hot in this film. He is the narc. here.

      1. WhoCares says:

        Bibi – yes! Thank-you for saying it…I was wondering if it had been brought up elsewhere on the blog? That whole film is about a narcissistic entanglement:

        “Just let me rule you; and you can have everything that you want.”

        “Just fear me, love me; do as I say – and I will be your slave.”

        And yasss – David Bowie is hot as the Goblin King.

    9. Catherine Parr R says:

      My dear Challenge Fuel I’m aware that this is a difficult time for you and this reply is a little late but wanted to ask you why were you so blindsided by news that your narcissist’s wife is pregnant. Weren’t you already informed by another person here that she was indeed expecting a baby weeks in advance before you had made the above comment? The news was old news really. No surprise there.

      1. Fuel on the Shelf says:

        Are you trying to inadvertently tell me that the news of his wife’s pregnancy was known in advance before he told me by someone else on this message board who knew? Or was it a lucky guess? 🙄

        I do remember the person you are speaking of who told me that he was “enjoying his wife sexually every moment of the day and expecting another baby”. ( I am paraphrasing that but it was the general gist of the message) and yes it was said to me before he told me.

        There are occasional times when I wonder if my narc comes here and read this stuff. Now I am starting to wonder if people in his life come here and read this stuff. Or if people know him and are messing with me. That comment was made here before I was told of the news, I still have no idea if it is a coincidence. The fact that there has still not been a social media announcement on his end is extremely suspicious. And now the comments on this old post are suddenly resurrected?

        The fact that I commented a few days ago on one of HG’s social media posts about the above situation and now a comment comes through on this post from months ago? Seems a bit odd to me.

      2. Twilight says:


        Don’t go down that road.
        Look at the logic

        He is married, he is going to have nocturnal activities with his wife.

        He is seen as the good Christian man. My ex was a “good Christian man” yet he had a desire of having a son to name after him. His first child was a girl the second a boy. He explained to me the reason why he chose the names they were given, and the meaning of their initials. It was incredibly insightful.
        Now I am not saying your ex and my ex’s have the same intentions for children just my ex knew what he was and why he did what he did, I was just fortunate he actually was truthful with me in many ways.

        1. Hi Twilight,
          I do not mean to be rude so forgive me if I come across that way but I am going down “that road” since the thread being resurrected now (the timing) just makes me feel unsettled. I remember the comments made to me by this poster a few months ago. In the post telling me that they were “possibly expecting another baby” (based on the time I found out the news and how far along she was) the “possibly” ended up being quite accurate. In the comment to me the poster also described his wife, both her personality AND a comment regarding her physical appearance (notably her HEIGHT) which is 100% accurate. I understand some things may be a coincidence but that just creeped me out a bit. I just wanted to explain the rationale behind my prior reply.

          1. Twilight says:


            Do not be worried of ever being rude to me, I understand where you are coming from.

            The choice is yours, you can take control of your emotional thinking on this. All it will do is prolong your misery thinking about it and looking for it.

            You will always look for “signs”to confirm whatever your emotional thinking is searching for to confirm or deny what it wants you to believe to keep you chained to him.

            He has never been available, his marriage is a sign of this and one he will not leave. This was a fact from the very beginning and sadly is one so many ignore until it is to late.

      3. Catherine Parr R says:

        I don’t know anything about your situation. Hard to speculate. Maybe his other potential investigative girlfriends noticed his sloppiness in more ways than one. Imagine a big event reveal. An intervention! He lies to his wife, he lies to you. My heart truly aches for you. Just don’t think about it and all the outcomes. Cross one plank at a time on that bridge when time comes. Mind the gap!

  7. Catherine says:

    My ex already had two children when we met, an older girl and a younger boy and I always thought there was something very odd about his relationship to his kids. The girl would have been the golden child; she reminded him so much of himself, while he couldn’t understand the little sensitive boy. At times he told me he didn’t think it was his biological son at all, which was ridiculous because the boy looked exactly like him. He talked a lot about them though and seemed fiercely protective of them. When he wasn’t with them he called them every evening and seemed caring enough; oftentimes complaining angrily about him being a weekend dad and that he wanted custody of them or at least to have them every second week which was impossible because of his line of work and the fact that he travelled all the time. He even asked me if I would be willing to make that kind of arrangement work and I said no very early on because I don’t have children of my own and I didn’t want to be left with his kids while he travelled when they had a mother who loved them and wanted them to stay with her. I actually thought that was a weird and cruel suggestion.

    I also struggled a lot with the thought of his kids though because to me in the beginning he seemed to genuinely love them. Eventually I got the feeling that it was the same kind of « love » he presented to me though. It was all about control. He controlled his ex wife through the kids; calling at her house all the time to find her out with a new man because he refused to let his children grow up with another dad even though he’d divorced her and I wonder now afterwards if he paid her to not get involved with someone else because he was the one with all the fancy lawyers and the cleverly placed money she couldn’t share when they separated. But most of all, there was this eternal gap between his words and his actions that felt so odd. He used his children to make me feel guilty about time spent together that he could’ve spent with them whenever he had mood swings and when he did spend time with them he complained all the time about how tired he got; still he used to watch golf on TV during those days, rebuffing any kind of true connection with them at all. It’s taken me some time to realise that they were just a part of his façade and nothing else. He even wanted a child with me but luckily I couldn’t even imagine that kind of situation!

  8. Kensey says:

    He treated children like things. Competing with the actual friggin parents,isolating their visiting child…if you tried to engage him in conversation he would not even look up from love bombing said child. At the time it felt like grooming. I recall thinking my gawd is he into kids! Hindsight.. it was merely triangulation fuel.
    When I exposed his multiple infidelities – he threatened to kill himself. I said ..your son & DIL are about to have a baby. You would do that to them? He said..”they’ll get over it”
    No-thing is innocent or off limits. It’s all about fuel.

  9. Kate says:

    This article makes little sense to me because my pregnancy was a complete surprise to us. We were relatively young and although we had been together for three years, we didn’t discuss when we would have our children but knew we would eventually. The last part about children being a legacy makes sense to me, but I don’t see it as being about me. I feel happy and proud for my son every time that he achieves something. I have been and continue to be very fortunate to have a front row seat as I watch him develop from a 4 lb 6 oz infant to a strong and independent man who fills my heart with love and joy. He is the biggest blessing and best surprise that I have ever been given!

    1. Lisa says:

      He was likely a surprise to you not him. It been my experience that these guys love to get women pregnant especially when they know she isn’t ready to be a mother for whatever reason. They don’t care which way it goes cause in the end it’s the ultimate control of you

      1. Kate says:

        Hi Lisa,

        I got pregnant on birth control – it is not 100%. Apparently, I should have been told to take it every day at the same time. The instructions I got were a nonchalant, “if you miss a day, just take two the next day”. So, be careful if you are not ready to have your life transformed everyone!

  10. Sophie says:

    I remember my narc using this ‘ I want to have babies with you’trick. I think he was taken slightly aback by my stating that I do not wish to have kids. However, what really made my neckskin crawl about your article, is that he behaved in the way that you described with his ex- wife and their children. Your articles vividly describe most of my relationship with that man. The aftermath is still a thorn in my heart- your site is a daily reminder that I escaped. Thank you.

  11. WiserNow says:

    To me, the heartless psychological abuse and manipulation of their own children demonstrates just how warped and distorted the minds of narcissists really are. To a ‘normal’ person, their behaviour seems incomprehensible. It appears to be opposite to the basic laws of nature, in that all species have a natural instinct to protect and nurture their offspring.

    1. Morning sun says:

      I can see how a lesser or mid-range narcissist would believe that protecting and nurturing is what they are doing. After all, the child is an extension of themselves. If the child makes them feel better in some way, then that’s by extension good for the child, yes? If they’re cruel, they are teaching the child the facts of life. Etc.

      I’m pretty sure my mother considers herself the most nurturing and protective (healthily, of course!) of mothers. How lucky I am to have her!

      1. WiserNow says:

        Hi Morning Sun,

        I think I know how lucky you are …you and me both 😉

        You have a point though. In the minds of narcissists, who have no self-awareness and think they’re blameless, I imagine they do believe they are excellent parents who have done their best for their children.

  12. Insatiable Learner says:

    HG,the mid mid-ranger somatic I was entangled with as an intimate secondary source wanted a baby for a long time and said he would have it with anybody, which, at the time, I thought was odd (who says that?). He finally had a baby with the new IPPS )(to his surprise and delight). Last time we spoke, he was extremely happy, had a bunch of pics of the baby, himself with the baby, was raving how he was looking forward to spending the life with his son, etc. It really sounded like this was one happy family. What is your take on this, HG?

    1. HG Tudor says:


      1. Insatiable Learner says:

        Thank you, HG. Is there anything genuine to this guy?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          His narcissism.

      2. Annie says:

        Hi Insatiable Learner, our midrangers seem to have much in common. My narc gushed about being a “brand new father” after his baby was born, and said all the “right things”. I saw him at a work function about 2 months after his baby was born, and he talked about how he leaves work early just so he can spend time with her because he doesn’t want to miss anything. How nothing else is as important, including his career (which up until that time was of paramount importance). Did I mention that he cheated on his wife while she was pregnant and after the baby was born? When I consulted HG, he also said it was facade management. When I think more about that conversation and a few subsequent ones, there are some odd tidbits thrown out as well. He always bemoans the fact that the baby takes a lot of time…of course his wife wants him to take care of the baby periodically while he is home (perhaps so she can do something else) “and sometimes he just can’t because he has work to do”, and sometimes his wife is so busy with the baby
        that “she doesn’t even take a shower” (the nerve of her!). And when he didn’t finish something for work at one point (we were on the same team for this, although we are geographically far apart), he blamed it on the “time-consuming baby”. Then he showed me a picture of the baby….now most of the new dads I know are excited to show off their new babies, and they will show me 1 or 2 pictures of just the baby. But this guy, showed me a photo of him holding the baby (in a rather awkward pose), almost as if he wanted to show off what an awesome dad he is. I find it maddening because as much as I logically know it is facade management based on everything I have read here (and based on the fact that he is seemingly trying too hard to show what a wonderful family man he is and how great his life is), there is still part of me that thinks maybe it is all real. It’s getting better, and one day I won’t really care anymore, but I am obviously still fucked up and infected emotionally.

  13. Hypatia says:

    Do you have children, HG? I probably missed you saying so somewhere. If you do, what is the nature of your relationship to them?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I don’t.

  14. Bibi says:

    I understand why a narc would want to claim possession of his spouse by impregnating, but I don’t understand why a lesser somatic narcissist would want the burden of a kid with an unmarried girl. I wouldn’t think that would be good enough fuel. Why not just stay the single bachelor and bounce around from bed to bed like he did? Why have the burden? Kids are expensive and time consuming.

    Would parading about as the ‘good dad’ really compensate for that fuel loss? I would think such a narc would want to be with gym bunnies/underwear models, not some frumpy, uneducated girl with kids out of wedlock. Doesn’t make sense!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      He would not necessarily parade around as the good dad. Further, it is not a burner, a Lesser Somatic would quite readily not provide support and walk away.

      1. Bibi says:

        Yes that’s true! I wasn’t thinking like a narcissist a moment ago. A Lesser always has the option of abandoning the kid or managing to get someone else (the other parent or family member) to care for said kid.

        Their knee jerk reactions prevent them from really thinking things through. I have no doubt they would like the attention the infant would bring, but once that infant is old news, it is not so fun anymore for them.

        But they can use FB as a way to show off and get likes via the kid’s photos. But in reality they’ve probably never changed a diaper.

      2. ANM says:

        my younger sister married a lesser who walked away. he only started paying child support when she came into his life and started helping him. he has my sister convinced his daughters mother is whore and the mother keeps his child away. he messes with her mind
        he has her now fighting his custody battles for him. she calls me to ask advice but she is too much of a flying monkey. her husband hates me too. so no thanks

  15. EmP says:

    A good example:

    Lesser Sister meets younger man, ensnares him, has him impregnate her, all within the space of six months.

    His family is strongly against the relationship because of the big age difference between the two and the speed at which it all progresses. Big drama. He is a puppet in her hands and marries her anyway.

    Children (she had the second one right away) are now used to ensure in-laws’ compliance. “You do as a say OR you don’t get to see X and Y”.

    1. EmP says:

      On a side note, Mid-Ranger mother (WILDLY jealous) managed to completely ruin the wedding..

  16. Lori says:

    I have a question on this. I have known of and read of several instances where narcs are suspected of purposely getting wowen pregnant then encouraging or should I say not discouraging pregnancy terminations. Why would a Narc do that if they want to bind and a legacy? I get maybe the whole control aspect, but there are many more ways to achieve that without going to this much trouble

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It may arise out of a shift in thinking – the person was white when they became pregnant and then viewed black so a termination was encouraged.

      1. Morning sun says:

        Also, imagine the fuel… Of getting a woman pregnant then getting her to terminate and then possibly tourturing her with what-ifs her entire life. Or making her choose “me or the baby” and if she chooses the narc, well, we can all imagine how great that will turn out for her.

      2. Lori says:

        Yes it seems to me either way. This kinda seems like its part of the binding process either way it goes. Alll about inducing trauma which binds. Is that a reasonable take on this? I have seen this scenario in different forums multiple times

      3. Jen says:

        Why the sudden shift? Was it the pregnancy itself? Something else?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Most likely an alteration in the fuel matrix.

  17. Morning sun says:

    Charles Martin Vossler. Extreme example of impregnating his victim and then not only discarding, but completely ruining her and abducting the kids. She hasn’t seen them in 30 years. As he discarded her, he conned her out of a house, stole all their money, got her in debt, and had all her possessions, including the kid’s pictures and keepsakes sold off and/or destroyed.
    Am I right in assuming he’s a Greater, H.G.? I fail to see how any other school would possess such self-control and foresight – she didn’t notice a thing.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I would have to examine the circumstances and background, Morning Sun before forming a view as to school.

  18. Annika Larsen says:

    It happened to me 24 years ago, but fortunately I left the father when the child was 3 years old. He did not love me and did not love his son.

  19. SweetestTaboo says:

    This one so usefull right now . Been thinking about this often why he did that …

    Off topic question , whenever I used to meet my former ex he would be silent so when I did ask if he would still come or ask if our date was still on . He was always there out of no where. Is this calculated manipulation . And if a narcissist does this are spying on you or something ?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It depends on which school he belongs to. By not committing to the date he is maintaining shifting sands so you are uncertain and therefore easier to control.

      1. SweetestTaboo says:

        Very interesting !
        I do not know what school he belongs to I’m not good at this I guess..
        I’ll send an email for consult later . About this one .

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