Poll : What Do You Think The Narcissist Is?

POLLHG WANTSTO KNOW

You know from reading my work that there are varying schools and cadres of narcissist which encompasses those individuals who are unaware of what they are and bowl through life like an out of control wrecking ball wreaking havoc and destruction and not casting backwards glance. Others of our kind are charming, apparently pleasant and kind, yet behind that facade there is always someone who is suffering. Some of our kind are high achievers, ruthless leaders and bold pioneers who always get their way, no matter what the cost to others but as ever the end justifies the means. Others of the brethren always grab the limelight, are show-offs and prone to bold boasts. There are those who are passive aggressive, sniping from the sidelines, scurrying here and there as they play the “always the victim, it’s never their fault” card because people are just downright horrible to them despite their best efforts to please and help others. These are but some of the manifestations of our kind. Yes, we come in a variety of “flavours”.

But what do you actually think we are? In the comments sections across my various platforms I see reference to the fact that we are actually an alien life form that has somehow blended in with humans, not quite able to replicate humans but doing a convincing job a lot of the time. Some suggest we are also victims, people who have suffered in a way similar to way that we make other people suffer. There is a begrudging respect for the brilliance we can exhibit but tempered with the caveats for the price that is paid for staring at the sun for too long. Views range from possession by demons or dark spirits through to a toddler in an adult’s body.

What is your view? You may choose as many as you deem applicable from the list below before casting your vote and as usual, do furnish me with your interesting and articulate views in the comments section.

Thank you for participating.

What do you believe the narcissist is?

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434 thoughts on “Poll : What Do You Think The Narcissist Is?”

  1. When I first came here it was because of one narcissist who had caused me trouble. He is still my “primary narcissist source” and the one I am having in mind most often when I am reading HG Tudor’s thoughts and explanations, but in the meantime I realized that at least four outstanding narcissists have left a mark on my life up to now.
    From some of them I learned (indirectly, between the lines or through third parties, not by their whining) that they had to suffer horrible ordeals during their time of childhood. They had parents who were cold, weak, rude. They didn’t get enough of what a newborn, a toddler, a little child needs for life, like physical comfort, loving care or emotional/intellectual recognition when appropriate. Some of their parents had been damaged or mentally disabled themselves.
    Through my experiences with these narcissists I learned that there is a lot more suffering in this world going on than I thought when I was young. For many many people this world is not a happy place.
    That is why in the poll I ticked boxes with concepts like “broken, pain-filled, victim, damaged”. I suffered from their emotional vampirism e.g. in the form of “rules of ex”, “malign hoover”, “silent treatment”. What touched me most was the suggestion that a narcissist is “an individual who has evolved differently in order to survive”. Survival, I am sure, was what they all needed to fight for at one point or more.

  2. Do you like the outcome of the poll, HG?

    Would you ever have thought a few years back that you would have to look into a mirror of how you might be perceives by other people, who understand a little more? Though you asked of course, and answer choices are your words ….

    But what would you have thought 6 years ago, how other people (those who got most how you are) perceive you?

    1. I so agree with Ugotit comments. I don’t know how he knows all this shit but believe me – he knows and he also knows you are an adult and you make your own choices.

      On few instances, I do remind myself that he is a narc too but I must say that if i would have had access to his knowledge, experience and this blog before, I would have avoided major breakdowns, fights, sleepless nights.

      To understand the beast is to take yourself out of the equation in a certain way. You start to understand that you are a fuel number and that it has nothing to do with you being good or bad… It is just about you not knowing who you really are dealing with. It is also grieving the story – the illusion and rebuilding your self-confidence.

  3. [Hello HG, I do not know where to post a link to your interview from November 2017.]

    Hello to everyone,

    I have just found this great interview with HG on YT.
    If an email notification was sent when this was published, I did not receive it, probably because I had problems with my internet connection last year.

    This interview is very interesting and I hope you will find it as helpful and validating as I did.

    Writing Fun | Ep. 176 : Evil with H.G. Tudor

    1. Thank you EB. I had missed this one as well and it was another great example of his ability to explain narcissism in simple terms that everyone can understand. Especially helpful when he gives examples and then offers the breakdown of what has occurred from his point of view as opposed to ours.

      Great interview as always HG. Look forward to your upcoming WNAAD participation, the many books in progress, and any other surprises you have in store.

      NA

      1. Which video is it that’s referred to in the interview about Hollywood figures?

      2. HG
        When will these books be available? And, will you be speaking on WNAAD? Or will it be a recorded interview?

      3. Cannot provide a date yet. It is a recorded interview, I am being interviewed this month.

      4. Ah I see, should all proceed as planned there will be a double hat-trick.

      5. Hello NA,

        Glad you found it helpful too. I found it quite by chance. It was on another channel. I am looking forward to reading his new books and to his WNAAD interview too.

        Are you receiving all email notifications now, NA?
        I have been having problems with WP again. I am not receiving any of those **[Subscribe] Comments on Knowing the Narcissist – please confirm** emails after submitting a comment. They are not in the spam dungeon. I activated my WP account once again. I hope next time it works.

      6. Hi EB

        I dont get the confirm subscription anymore either, but am getting the comments properly in my email as before. Perhaps WordPress has been making changes again. I see now that the numbers of thumbs up under comments do not equal the number of people it tells me that liked the comment for example. Thank you again for your help previously.

    2. I literally am being pressured (by the narc and my own imprinting) to get on a train to narctown.

  4. Prey:

    In response to your concerns:

    – HG educates people about narcissism. He actively advocates NC.

    – People who come to this site generally have now (or have had previously) a problem with a narcissist. They are typically grateful for the wealth of information and the support they receive (from HG’s info/his answering questions/consultations). In addition, there is a lot of support from posters who can relate to narcissistic abuse. All this serves to aid people to get out of a relationship with — or greatly minimize/healthfully cope with a narcissist(s) in their lives. So whether people say thanks to HG, or compliment him, or laugh at his humor, etc. — everyone is fully aware that he is a narcissist. He’s open about what he is. So there’s respect for that openness, his insight and this blog of support. People also do have fun on here. It’s good to deal with issues, but it’s also good to just be friendly and laugh. I think that’s very healthy.

    -HG doesn’t need tips on how to be a narcissist, nor does he get the fuel he needs from us, as we are just acquaintances on a blog (however, if he gets a bit from us — that’s a bit less he has to seek elsewhere, so that’s good). Whatever his personal purpose is for creating and maintaining the blog, he has explained it’s under the guidance of his doctors/therapy. But it cannot be denied that it — and he — are helping people who have been entangled with/abused by a narcissist(s).

    – This is a public forum. I’m sure that is clear to everyone. People decide what info they give, and how they give it. There’s a weighing of risks that is personal to each. But I will say I have read of some seemingly very despondent people digging out — and others leaving their narcissists — as a direct result of HG’s work/consults/info/the blog. Whether other narcissists come to this site or not, who knows? But it seems that the lower echelon ones would not, as they don’t know they’re narcissists — and they wouldn’t want anywhere near anything to suggest they are. It seems weird to me the higher echelon/self-aware ones would hang out here. They’d likely know their craft well enough and be busy elsewhere — and I find it hard to believe they would “lower themselves” to read another narcissist’s blog for long…and again, they already know how to manipulate people.

    I don’t usually chime in when someone else can perfectly well address these things (and HG has, in multiple threads), but this was one time I thought I should speak up.

    1. Thank you Caroline for covering the level-setting type information. Sometimes it gets overlooked and I am one who likes this type of referential info and reminder. 😀 I agree- early on I really had a stormy feeling about HG. Because I was so hurt and deeply emotional. But now – I am also grateful and almost exclusively use this forum and HGs work for my info and continued education. Narcs are a tough nut to crack…no pun intended. I also liked a recent comment I read on this forum that reminded us that are fully NC to find some humor in it. if you can look at them and picture them like a little rat running around looking for cheese in a maze… And attach that kind of frenetic energy and then place your role in their entire life it’s just really ridiculous… And if you’re free now and have hope for better things ahead occasionally you have to find it funny… even thon2x today I cried on the freeway- I heard two songs that just broke my heart on a rainy afternoon and evening one was Tom Petty cover song I have a room at the top of the world tonight… And the other was the cranberries the one about I’m in so deep I’m such a fool for you you’ve got me wrapped around your finger I think it’s called linge I heard two songs that just broke my heart on a rainy afternoon and evening one was Tom Petty covered live in Nashville- by a guy-song “I have a room at the top of the world tonight “ And the other was the Cranberries the one about I’m in so deep I’m such a fool for you you’ve got me wrapped around your finger I think it’s called “linger”.
      Both broke my heart that I felt so deeply and I wants thought I thought that deepness for my narcissist and that I have no one right now to hold hands with in the car ir to hug me and hold me.and really bond with.
      Arggg- still the roller coaster- dang HG “when will it end???” Another song lyric from 60s! Title: Over under sideways down- yardbirds

  5. RealitySetsin – ah, I see…when you said ‘as well’ I misunderstood and assumed you meant we were both Canadian.

    And, yep, my hamster tends to put in a lot overtime these days.

  6. Many seem to have felt abused verbally / emotionally by their mothers and ignored by their fathers.

  7. RealitySetsin – (hello to a fellow Canadian!) two reasons for my question actually…

    1. HG is very good at reading people, so I believe he could easily predict how many would respond to his inquiries…given enough insight into an individual (asking him if he sees any discrenpancies is interesting to know.

    2. I wonder how much actual ‘freewill’ Empaths have in their reactions/responses in comparison to that of Narcissists.

    1. WhoCares
      Yeah I see…interesting. I see you are a fellow thinker as myself. Was going to also tell you I’m actually not Canadian..I am Texan lol…but I thought I would be Canadian but that ship has sailed. Thank you for your response. 🙂

    2. I would posit people are fundamentally stable in their reactions/personality.. but I would also say in this context, we might not see a shift bc perhaps people who experience a massive change.. might leave.. and so we are no longer witnessing their thoughts…?(adding the question as I’m just sharing a possibility/thought)

  8. **Caroline obediently listens to Little Angel – stays transfixed on EVIL, awaiting conversion…**

    (insert Jeopardy music)

  9. I regard them as not fully emotionally developed, they are stagnated and trapped in an under developed state, with extreme self focus, and have not entered the higher stages of emotionally developement that gives them ability to see beyond themselves and their egoism.

  10. This poll has been very interesting and I keep returning to read more recent posts just to see the different points of view.

    A few commenters have said that narcissists can “choose” the way they behave and that they have, at some point, exercised freewill to continue their manipulative and abusive ways.

    The idea that they have “choice” and that they consciously decide to pursue the path of narcissism did not seem plausible to me at first. However, for some reason, the concept of choice stuck in my mind and kept me wondering.

    And then today, I thought, well, if narcs have a choice, then so do empaths. You could argue that empaths have choice and freewill too. So if that’s the case, you could say that whenever empaths are faced with a situation that requires their input or reaction, they would have the ability to consciously decide whether or not they’d exercise compassion, conscience, guilt etc.

    Seeing it from this perspective makes me think that choice is not really an option. Compassion, conscience or guilt etc aren’t really things that you can “choose”. They appear automatically and it’s very difficult and unnatural to choose to think differently. For instance, I can’t see how an empath could deliberately not be compassionate and choose to just switch that instinct off.

    Likewise, in the case of a narcissist, I don’t think the “lack of” compassion, conscience or guilt etc are things they have a “choice” over either.

    …just a thought.

    1. WiserNow,

      Thank you for your comment. That is exactly how I think of it also.

      It’s also why, even though I stare at the (banner) word EVIL at the top of blog (realizing HG purposefully chose that word) — I *still* do not think of narcissists as evil.

      It would be a lot easier for me if I did.

      1. Caroline

        Stare at that banner until EVIL sinks in. Once you do, you can begin to receive its alternate and ironic subliminal message: LIVE.

      2. You’re welcome Caroline, and thank you for your reply.

        It’s ironic that you say…”It would be a lot easier for me if I did (*think of narcissists as evil*).”

        I say this because, in my own case, I feel the opposite way. It’s easier for me to believe there are rational and relatable reasons behind narcissism, than to simply see it as evil or ‘demonic’.

        This stems from the narcissist being my own mother. When I first started learning about the topic, I saw several blogs where victims of narcissists described the narcs in terms of them being pure evil. They were described as horrible, demonic forces that were completely “bad”. There was a lot of unrestrained hate and vitriolic blame expressed towards them in those blogs and it repelled me in a way. Although I can see why they would react that way, I don’t feel that way about my Mum.

        Although my Mum often infuriates, frustrates and saddens me, and I can only take small doses of her CONSTANT manipulations and chipping away at everyone’s boundaries, she is still my mother and I don’t “hate” her or think of her as “evil”. I don’t want or feel the need for vitriolic vengeance. There is too much water under the bridge and I know she had a very sad childhood and that she has some great points too. We have a bond. It may be a strained and conflicted bond that’s difficult to live with, but it’s a bond nevertheless.

        It is easier for me to think logically and to understand her and accept her behaviour when I can understand the underlying reasons for it than when I think of her as simply being “evil”.

    2. WiserNow, we all can change ourselves a little bit. HG is able to show cognitive compassion, if he wants to. That would be a change especially for others who are in real contact with him in his private life. It would be a cognitive decision, not one from his soul. And it would be incredibly difficult for him. The empath can learn to be less compassionate and not to trust others in a gullible way or to find a rational reasons for all of the narc`s behaviour. Empath can learn to scan their environment and to identify narcs around them and then to avoid them as much as possible. They can learn too, that a lot of their felt guilt is a construct of their parents, who used the natural feeling of guilt of their children to get what they wanted. This kind of parents heighten the feeling of guilt in their children, until it is out of normal. It is distorted. Even the conscience can be influenced the same way. When you are told as a child that horrible things will happen, if you do not eat all the food on your plate, and coincidentally something very bad happens, you will probably never leave a crumb on your plate. You draw false conclusions and make false decisions, based on that single, coincidental event. You know as an adult, that it was nonsense, what your mother or father told you, but all the time you try to eat up everything. As long as it does not cause problems, you see no need to change it. At the moment it causes problems then you see the need to change it. It still remains difficult, but it is possible. We all have a choice to react different than before. Of course it is limited by our natural conscience and compassion. I will never be someone without a conscience or able to switch feelings on and off – but …. I avoid narcissistic people and I am able now to recognise them when they try to come close. And I have no compassion for them anymore. They are the masters of their own fate. I am not responsible for them. And that is a real progress.

      1. Mona,

        Yes, I realise that change is possible, and empaths, more than narcissists, are capable of reflection, greater awareness and then a transformation in the way they see things. You are right, and I understand this.

        My comments above were not really considering the changes that happen after a period of time and experience within an unhealthy relationship, or change that happens after therapy or education etc.

        I was considering the way that narcissists and empaths think when it comes to choice and the ability to use freewill. My considerations are focused on the point in time when they are not trying to change or learn, but simply in their natural state, when neither really have that level of awareness that causes them to want to change.

        I’m happy for you that you have made real progress and have changed the way you feel and respond to narcissists. That is admirable and well done to you. I hope your knowledge keeps evolving until you feel entirely free.

        I have changed too and I have learned a lot in a short time both about the whole topic of narcissism and also about myself.

        One of the things that interests me is why it all happens in the first place. I feel that at the basis of what influences narcissistic and empathic thinking and behaviour is the particular differences in the way their brains work, and this is what my comments were about.

    3. Upon further reflection, I need to update my earlier comment.

      On the subject of ‘choice’, there are two parts to the way you can see choice.

      One is that there is no choice to the spontaneous gut reactions or reflexive emotions that stir within us due to a particular event or situation.

      The second part is that there IS choice to the way we ‘act’ upon receiving those spontaneous internal messages.

      For instance, as an empathic person, if I walk past a beggar in the street, I will instantly feel compassion for them and feel sorrow due to their situation. However, I will decide whether or not to give them a donation based on other considerations. My decision to act on my initial emotions is very much based on choice. If I decide not to donate, I will walk away feeling guilty and mean and again, that internal dialogue is not down to choice.

      In the case of narcissists, they definitely act out their mindgames in very consistent, elaborate and decisive ways.

      It could be said that they ‘choose’ to do so. However, they always act in a way that is detrimental to others, and ultimately by harming others, they also harm themselves. They don’t have the same internal filter or brake that evaluates the overall benefits/costs of acting on their spontaneous instincts.

      So, in that sense, I think there is something about ‘choice’ that’s different between narcs and people who are empathic.

      I think there is a break somewhere in the pathway inside the brain that sends messages from the reptilian part of the brain to the cognitive prefrontal cortex part of the brain.

      1. WiserNow, as far as we know HG and as far as he does not lie about his childhood, he was born quite normal, not very empathic, but not born evil too. The break developed after a lot of violent emotional events and then he became a narc. If empathic behaviour is punished or neglected, you will not use it anymore. The brain will develop in a different way, although it was created normal. If you want to learn much more about the effects of upbringing and the effects on a normal brain, try to watch some documentaries about North Korea. You will find out, that the regime of North Korea tries to create two types of humans: the codependent and the psychopaths.There is nothing else in between. Even very small children have to visit a museum, in which are horrible cruelties shown with all intensity. Of course these cruelties have been done only by Americans. Inside of the country all people are forced to watch public executions. Relatives are forced to be in the first row and not to show any emotion. All people are taught to hate the foreign enemy and to mistrust any other individual in their own country, including their closest relatives. Violence is absolutely normal for them and part of their lives. They are so brainwashed that they believe, they live in the best and most human ???? country of the world. It is fascinating how this regime functions. Only a few of people are able to see through this created world of darkness and they try to flee. I think, normal people have no chance to survive in that country. They have to decide at a very early age whether they become psychopaths or codependents. And that is driven by their inner traits, which way they will go.
        I do not think, that the violence in this country will vanish, if there would be some freedom. They have been damaged for generations and the effect of this damage will last for many generations.

        I do believe too that there are natural born psychopaths with a damaged brain. They are a mistake of nature. And they should be at least isolated – there is no help at all.

        Brain structure, genetics, upbringing, experiences and the damage of the brain (even later damage) they all influence each other and form each other.

        And of course the selective breeding of some character traits. Hitler knew that very well. He knew he could not rely on his brainwashing forever.

  11. HG,

    When someone comments on your polls (someone who has been a long-time follower of the blog or comments often) do they tend to respond from the same perspective that you have learned to expect from them, or do sometimes through you a curve ball?

    Curious,
    WC

    1. WhoCares

      I am just curious when I read your question to HG about his often or longtime blog followers it really stopped me for a minute and made me wonder why you would ask that. Just curious is all. I see that you are from Canada as well. Just an observation nothing meant by that. So basically I perceived your question to be…have all your regular bloggers been consistent in there perspective….meaning have you seen any inconsistencies? Just wondering why that went through your mind. Maybe you do not even know why you wondered that. Maybe you do.

  12. Hello, HG.

    I found the poll lacking the depth I wanted to explain what I think, so: I think NPDs are born of pain, and develop as they do as a necessity – she is the mother of invention, after all. I do not think you will find many, if any, NPDs admitting to that emotional wounding, because:
    A. This would create a vulnerability that might be later be used to wound again, and/or kink the supply line.
    B. There is an implication in admitting to being wounded that there was a ‘better’ version of themselves – and that self is something they no longer have any interest in being, or perhaps little to no remembrance of. Any mention or acknowledgement of, insults their current manifestation.

    I think that many of the Greater NPDs are capable of incredible, and often beautiful, brilliance. I think in some of their more brilliant endeavors, some of the aforementioned pain might be visible, though (intentionally) easily dismissable (by them).

    The automatic and overwhelming need of the empath to acknowledge and heal that pain, leaves the NPD looking like quite the snack.

    What a strange place I find myself in, emotionally. Listening and reading your words and insights, I find myself both attracted, and repelled.

    What do you think, HG?

    1. I think there is force in what you write and it is a common sensation of both being drawn and repelled by me.

  13. HG
    Also do you think that all of the people that follow your blog have a lot of achievements? No you have people from all walks of life reading your blog with all kinds of different disorders and some without. To make a blanket statement like that about achievements could also make them feel low and as if you perceive them as low life’s as well because bpd or not….not everyone is a high achiever due to all kinds of reasons and to say that just makes me think you are prejudice against anyone who is not as high as you or who hasn’t achieved a lot. Plus people with bpd didn’t ask to have the disorder. So it just sucks so bad to hear you put them down so bad. I know that you don’t remember all the comments I have shared on this blog as you have a lot of commenters however many times I have made reference to thinking maybe I have bpd…..so yeah I guess I’m a piece of crap who is not even worthy of your precious blog or time or interaction. That is such a disappoint to me. Really to be like that is not unique it’s just snobby and thinking materialistically that’s 75 % of the world. So yeah nothing special to be like more than half the world and judge others by their lack of achievements and I have stated to you personally in a message awhile back that you read and told you that I just had some college like a few years worth and a job. So yeah it just hurts to hear you say that. I guess I shouldn’t expect any remorse or apology for your offensive remark being that you are narcissist and they don’t care who they hurt. Even though I have complimented you several times and recognized your stature and achievement even though I am not on your level in life materialistically speaking. But mannnnn I have respected your greatness and you pretty much cut me down….when someone is great they really don’t have to cut someone else down. They can just be great. And let others be what they are and not judge. Their are many intelligent people in this world and yes some don’t get the opportunity to use that intelligence the way they could or wouldn’t like. But anyways I’m stopping just damn shot me straight out of the water just bam💥 !!!!!

  14. Here is another one that i identified with after discard…..oh no the song vault has been opened lol….ill be on this all day now…..ill try to keep most of it to myself….

    watch?w6__Dn4v=jBD3https://m.youtube.com/watch?w6__Dn4v=jBD3https://

    i sent these two songs to him by the way during my groveling stage!

    but i sware these songs sing my heart…just through another persons mouth…..

  15. Ugotit – Interesting observation about Algeria. I’d hazard a guess that western cultures have a higher percentage of narcissists only because they seem to produce a higher number of psychopaths and sociopaths.

    Narc affair – I agree that would be difficult to determine the ‘narcissism’ of a country, on the whole, because we have trouble discerning if the person standing before us is a narcissist…let me go stoke the fire in my igloo and ponder that one a while…

    NarcAngel – LOL. I can’t effectively comment on that because I did *not* – in my last relationship – buy Canadian.

    1. I had A Morrocan atheist, A Jew raised all over the world, A German- American and 2 plain Canadians… I like Diversity ! They were all Narcs and believe me … Real ones:)

      1. Yes OMJ

        I have to totally agree with all you just wrote. It does somewhat take you out of the equation. I will also add what you said and say that HG doesn’t put the blame on us entirely. The blame goes back on the NPD which has nothing to do with us other than we are receptive and or vulnerability to such people. The Narc however in our past relationship or current ones does put all the blame on us and none on themselves so yes that is so worth mentioning.

  16. What if the creature is a demon?
    I will have to check out the book about the creature you mentioned. You don’t believe it has a seperate mind I presume?…but it talks to you?

    1. Brian
      I think it may be the Super Ego. If you have a chance google Id, Ego and Super Ego, it might help you understand.

      1. Welcome, Brian
        I had an “ah ha” moment when I read about it. Here is an example of the critical voice.

        Superego: “You should get a rescued dog.” … Or maybe “You don’t deserve a puppy because you let your goldfish die when you were seven!”

  17. Funny that we have well over 200 comments to explain narcissists, yet how they see us can be summed up in one word… appliance.

    1. Just Me,
      I actually laughed out loud at that comment and kinda choked on my coffee. How true, so true LOL

  18. I meant that Canada would view itself as ’empathic’ if we had to label it. And see other countries as evil….gah, not sure if I need more or *less* coffee these days…

      1. “But so much of Canada is barren and cold!”

        Canada: Where even men have to wear a bra so their nipples dont slash their shirts.

      2. Just jumping in from a delightful little island in the Pacific, in British Columbia, CANADA.
        To say, go fuck yourselves, eh

      3. Ha. The Canada stuff is hysterical. I never would have thought in a million years that being Canadian had anything to do with it. But now I know! 🙂

      4. SMH – what’s actually more amusing, and revealing, is that I chose my own country to illustrate my example so as not to *offend* people of other nations on the blog…and still; a Canadian gets offended. Just goes to show; Narcissists aren’t the only people you cannot please.

        (And my point wasn’t even about nations but it was a fun discussion anyway.)

  19. They are everything we cannot own in ourselves; (on the negative perspective) the bad, the ugly, the evil.

    Even countries are narcissistic. Take Canada, for example which believes itself to be a fair, multi-ethic and welcoming; a ‘good’ country – in comparison to some other countries. Yet, we have yet to own the fact that we are capable of some pretty awful things considering the discrepancy in how we have treated our First Nations people…while Canada appears to be addressing that; it is always far more to easy to look across the border or across the ‘ponds’ and point fingers elsewhere at ‘evil’ or ‘immoral’ behaviour.

    We imbue narcissists with the evilest of evil quailties rather than acknowledge then possiblity of those qualities existing in ourselves.

    1. My friend and I are debating whether countries can be narcissistic since both of our narcs are Algerians and Algerians are one of too things the sweetest person you will ever meet or an arrogant pompous ass actually even the sweet ones are arrogant too.they even label people in this country as having a white heart or a black heart there is no gray and I’ve heard this labeling of people 1000 times.they also cannot tolerate criticism whatsoever but it you admire them they’ll give you their kidney and the shirt off their back .I do have a deep love for Algerians but I often wonder is it possible for an entire country to be narcissistic

      1. Interesting discussion about whole countries being more or less narcisstic. Of course individualistic cultures where ego and a certain amount of selfishness are promoted and even ranked as a marker of success will produce more narcissistic tendencies than cultures that put more emphasis on the collective. I read somewhere recently that my country, Sweden, is at the top of the list of the countries with the overall most single households in the world, followed closely by Britain, Japan, Italy, the US and Canada. We worship the individual, the self, above all, we manage by ourselves, we compete and we seek multiple partners during our lifetime. No wonder it might be a flourishing breeding ground for egotistical and narcissistic tendencies.

      2. Hello Ugoit! If there’s such thing as narcissistic countries please allow me to include Poland and Brazil. My nex was Polish (currenly living in Sweden, though) and my narcissistic relatives are from there too. Very much everyone I meet there has strong narc traits and absolute lack of empathy. In Brazil, people have split thinking, double standards and huge entitlement as a rule, so we could as well join this labelling as well.

      3. Ugotit, too funny and too weird, really, about the FB blizzard photos. Mine has the sky, planes and water plastered all over his social media. I said that it seems that he wants to escape his life, that he is always somewhere other than where he is. Cannot be fully present.

    2. Thats an interesting thought about different countries being more or less narcissistic.
      America and Britian seem to be stigmatized as being more narcissistic but ive met the most wonderful supportive people from both countries.
      Canada is stigmatized as living in igloos and being so friendly but ive met some grade A narcissists. The igloo part is partially true 😄
      Id read that australia was the most peaceful country as well as switzerland.
      I dont think you can gauge a country as far as narcissism goes?

      1. My narc is Canadian and since I have never known a narc before, and very few Canadians, I am inclined to categorize Canada as narc-country now :).

      2. SMH
        My ex narc is also Canadian…and yes Canada is a very cold and barren place….just like his ❤️
        At one point we talked about me possible moving there if we decided to marry. After devaluation started he went from being this super loving man that walked in the -20 degrees snow storm because WiFi and service went out in his house and he did this just so he could get a signal at a local coffee shop so he could text me on whatapp…to being this man I eventually imagined would throw me out the door in -20 and lock me out….I also imagined him doing it with me having no clothes on. Lol yeah scary imagination I have eh! But that’s just how bad he freaked me out when he dropped the mask that I could actually imagine him doing that to me! Yes they are in 🇨🇦 Canada narcissist country lol.

      3. True story my narcs dream in life is to immigrate to Canada he is also obsessed with severe weather like blizzards etc he also dreams of living in a cabin secluded from society he owns dozens of lumberjack shirts and oddly enough several sweatshirts that say Canada on them where the heck he managed to purchase these in Africa is beyond me

      4. Ugotit
        He doesnt have to purchase them. We send cargo ships full of t-shirts and sweats emblazoned with CANADA over to Africa after our dismal performances at each Olympic games.

      5. Realitysetsin

        You finished a sentence with: eh!

        We are currently processing your visa.

      6. RealitySetsIn, Funny! (Not) When mine told me he is moving back to Canada in a few months I said ‘I guess that means I’m moving too’ because, you know, he OWNS me and INHABITS me. To his credit, he laughed. I might have done it had we had a ‘normal’ relationship. But I know if I did it, even or especially if he wanted me to, he would ignore me while stalking me. My song for him is Radiohead’s Creep.

      7. Ugotit – interesting:

        “he is also obsessed with severe weather like blizzards etc he also dreams of living in a cabin secluded from society”

        You may want to pass along a little heads up to your narc….living in a cabin secluded from society…might not be the *healthiest* choice for a narc…unless he can live off of firewood for ‘fuel’…oh. wait. Nope; he’s gonna need all the firewood he can get to warm his ass! Sorry, guess he’s out of luck.

      8. Ha. Mid Ranger Moron was Canadian. I loved when I found out he’d been inventing a false identity, he tried to blame it on ‘cultural differences’. WTF, eh?

      9. Bibi,

        “he tried to blame it on ‘cultural differences’. WTF, eh?”

        Omg.*That* is too funny.

      10. Hi Ugotit…lol im sorry your post about your narc had me laughing. Seriously he dreams of blizzard storms? He can have them! 😂 Im so done with snow this year! Too funny lol

      11. Yeah they do have the chrea mountains about 20 minutes from where he lives which do get a lot of snow some winters but yeah he is obsessed with the idea that he is this independent creature that can survive anywhere and needs nobody he always posted pictures of barren wastelands covered in snow on his Facebook page that he got off some weather groups I guess those pictures appeal to his inner coldness plus its a common theme for Algerians to want to go to Canada they assume its more liberal and open-minded and because they’re Muslim they don’t wanna come to america while trumps in office

      12. Lol i need to get me a lumberjack shirt 😁
        I have the cabin altho not secluded.

  20. Thank you, HG! I suspect my mom to be highly narcissistic as I can relate to a lot of what you write in ACON’s memes. Sometimes I am put on a pedestal while at other times, I am blamed for everything. I have always been treated as the parentified child, so I was just wondering.

      1. HG, is this almost unusual magnanimous endeavour for you to gain more access into the minds of empaths and find other manners to illicit fuel and apply for your own life?

      2. I enjoy the intellectual stimulation from learning. I am highly effective already. It is for other purposes.

      3. With further reference to your previous post: “I find the exchange intellectually stimulating and it is important for readers to understand my views etc – you often will not like them but it is about understanding.” I am trying to understand how and why you would feel compelled to be understood when by virtue of being a Greater, you already feel and believe you are superior.
        I fear us all being here gives you and other narcs new ideas and fuel. Is there truth in that?

      4. If you are here to learn then you need to understand. It is a simple as that. You don’t give me new ideas, I know all there is to know about obtaining my fuel and for the twenty thousandth time I do not have my fuel needs met here they are met in my private life. If you have read and understood how fuel operates you would realise that the question/suggestion that I get lots of fuel here is patently incorrect.
        I do gain some fuel and I have always admitted that, but it is not sufficient in itself and not the reason I do this work.

      5. Prey

        Why are you here?

        Maybe you should sit back do some reading and learn facts before jumping to conclusions.

        Read Fuel if you choose to understand how fuel is actually obtain.

        Even if one was to gain some kind of insight, which I see only a Greater actually have enough awareness to recognize this, they would already be well equipped with what works for them.

      6. The digging deeper might irritate you and your blind-love grateful supporters but it is legit if I want to verify purpose and intentions – which have always been a bit vague. I HAVE been reading I assure you, and I am merely clarifying if the “intellectual stimulation” one receives is also “Fuel” (is this not a legit qn?). I don’t have to justify my questions and you need not be cruel to berate me but I understand why you do. In asking I am understanding and establishing the true reason/purpose of this blog where people narcs and empaths discuss their thoughts and experiences…true reasons which HG hasn’t really divulged, in bits and pieces yes. Forgive me but the main banner here says EVIL. Of course we should be concerned, Twilight. Here are a million or more empaths and victims hanging their stories here bare for all to read, and seeking advice from a Greater Narc and make no mistake there are many other hidden narcs reading. Of course it gives evil ones who have evil intentions and thoughts greater thoughts and ideas – maybe not HG but others. It is foolish and naive to believe Every-one here is operating on a magnaninous effort as a support group. If I am subscribing to these wise words and consulting advice, I better know who I am asking and I should be wary of every word and intention. My experiences are the red flag alerts and I am merely being cautious as I should be to pay attention to my own instincts. Don’t need a campaign to take down learning empaths.

      7. Intellectual stimulation is not fuel. Fuel is the emotional response of another caused by my words or actions.

      8. Prey

        I found it amusing with your statement of I don’t have to justify my questions and you need not be cruel to berate me but I understand why you do.
        Yet it is ok for you to desire HG to justify his intentions of his blog, (which he has said numerous times his reasons why) or the berating of another by correcting their grammar because it is hard on your eyes and brain to read. Tell me what makes you better then anyone else here?

        My comment directed you was to a source of information that explains fuel and how it is obtain in detail.
        Listening to understand and listening to hear are two separate things.

        Only a Greater would have the awareness of what they are, in this they would be well equipped with what works for them in obtaining the fuel they need, a mid or lessor do not have this awareness and would not put two and two together.
        Are there narcissist here, oh ya yet they believe they were the ones entangled, so with that how would one of them gain insights with new ideas?

      9. Caroline and Twilight – I have to say I am grateful for your comments, on shedding light about the purposes of this blog and why people come here, whether consciously knowing these/themselves or not. I see the logic you put forth, but these theories of narcs and empaths are all theories, are they not? How does a Greater know the others? How would his ill sense of awareness make him so acutely aware of empaths and narcs of various levels? The psychology world has little on even the disorder, how to treat it and what types and degree of narcisism exist. Yet we lap everything up here like it is the bible of Evil. What makes us all pros overnight of this sort of evil, from reading a blog? What makes these truths? I’m merely playing devils advocate here with my helpless self who needs all the help one can get and another “sound” voice saying “you trust the advice from another narc? How more stupid and gullible are you again?” Even my friends and therapists draw caution to the way I am coping by getting reprieve and more understanding from seeking legitimate information here. They ask Why are you there – just like you Twilight – you asked Why are you here.
        I am just trying to make sense of and from this no doubt insightful place. I obviously have trust issues, but wouldn’t scarred people looking to find answers and help here tend to? And the irony in all this is to reach out to a hand that is of the same make as the one that scarred. So throw me a bone here. I freaked because I saw the name of my narc here and that was when I realised some of them could be lurking here, whether they know or come to realise what they are. (Twilight – the grammar thing was meant to be a joke. It is a personal peeve but nonetheless I couldn’t resist just a little poke of humour because truly, reading rants without punctuation really is hard! Isn’t it? I am at least trying to give these time of day. Clearly I wanted to read her rant than easily ignore it. People really take things seriously around here! Or I obviously have a very screwed up sense of humour I suppose.)

      10. Hello Prey

        You state
        “How does a Greater know the others? How would his ill sense of awareness make him so acutely aware of empaths and narcs of various levels?”

        Observation and listening to understand

        “The psychology world has little on even the disorder, how to treat it and what types and degree of narcisism exist”

        HG understands himself and his awareness is increasing from his interactions with the Good Doctors.

        Many in the psychological world are of HGs kind and have no awareness to their own disorder, so how could they even convey it to the masses to understand.

        “What makes these truths?”

        Accuracy

        If you needed heart surgery you would see a heart surgeon, correct? A person with the expertise to see and take care of the issue and then give the advice on what one needs to do to correct the issue in the best way possible.
        HG is an expert on what, how, and why narcissists do what they do and how to devise a plan of defense against them.

        This is information take it or leave it the choice is yours to do with it as YOU see fit.

        As far as the grammar incident, I wasn’t the only one to see it how it can across.

        I can understand seeing the name of an ex can be a trigger, it can also send a person in a slight tailspin and become defensive.

      11. Prey,
        Holy Hilarity! I can’t find my comment, nor do I recall what it was…but I must have said something, lol…Sorry, this thread is a bit of a mess on my device.

        So I guess I will just say (based on what you said) that I’m not lapping everything up like the “bible of evil,” (funny)… and I am certainly no pro on narcissism! I never will be, as I find personality disorders complicated and (no pun intended) mind-blowing. I have to, for instance, continue to remind myself narcissists have no empathic nor guilt feelings related to others — that’s a whole lot to digest right there, let alone breaking down all that entails. So it’s all pretty beyond me, frankly. I can, however, scratch the surface — and learn more about myself while doing so. I think that’s pretty healthy.

        I am interested in understanding narcissism more, for several reasons. So I’m reading, absorbing, reflecting, checking/evaluating the info. But yes, I do see how it makes sense, with the narcissist I was entangled with for 3 years (who does, quite specifically, much of what HG speaks of).

        Bottom line: Can I read anyone’s mind? Nope. Get into their heart? Nope. But I can see what someone who has NPD has to say on it, and I can come to some semblance of my own wisdom on that. We all come to learn things much the same way — exposures, experiences, evaluations. There’s a lot written about NPD, so that should be considered…but as you state, it is not well-understood. It often takes something a little “out there” to break into more knowledge with ailments that are complex — *like* a narcissist explaining his narcissism. It makes sense to me that new ground (in understanding) could be gained this way.

        Keeping an open mind is always a good thing, Prey, including your questioning!

        Thanks for your comment back. 🙂

      12. Prey
        In your opinion what do you think would be a narcs reason for lurking here? Also if they are lurking they wouldn’t use their real name. As far as trying to make sense of reading a blog written by a greater narcissist….I too have wondered if this is what I should be doing. So far I do not feel being on this blog has hurt me in any way. It is a bit confusing for sure being HG is a narcissist himself and that is quite perplexing to say the least. I guess in some ways it could give a lot of people an alternative choice rather than reaching out and communicating with their actual narc. Like an alternative type source to keep them from turning to the actual source that could definitely hurt them. Yes it is confusing to me also. I will not lie and sometimes I am not sure what or if it’s right. I do know that since I’ve been reading this blog I have learned a lot. I will also say that I have not been contacting the ex narc. I can’t say for sure If that is all HG and this blog or if it’s passage of time. I do feel it has a bit to do with this blog and HG. He clearly tells us to stay away from the narc and he clears up a lot about what they are and what they do. He assures us to stay no contact and protect ourselves from them. It is also a place can share their experiences and read others experiences. It’s not like a cult or anything. We will never meet HG. I mean there’s a limit here. What would be crazy is if we all found out eventually HG was really a woman lol hahahahahah….just kidding HG….totally joking! 🙃…..we would be like ….man we got catfished!

      13. Prey I was incredibly distrustful of hg when I came here I compared him to Adolf Hitler and Charles Manson I questioned his motivations also as have other people the reason I know longer fear or distrust him is I’ve know been here long enough maybe since last August or September to see nothing bad has ever happened to me . And I don’t know how the heck he knows as much as he knows I only know that somehow he really does know it because everything he’s ever posted has come true for me , especially my relationship it followed to a tee the idealization devalue discard hoover over and over again without fail. So he knows his stuff that’s all I can say , how or why I don’t know , but he knows.

      14. If I told you here of all the creative ways my narc hung me out to dry and die, you would know why I am skeptical and scared of giving evil others here more ideas for shaming, slamming and devaluing campaigns. “Oh let’s try that thing I read on this blog because I haven’t tried that way before and it sure seemed to have worked on that empath.”

      15. Prey,
        I have been reading many of your comments here.
        I do not really understand if your concern is just one directed to you or if it is your concern regarding others.

        If it is the former and quoting:
        ” In asking I am understanding and establishing the true reason/purpose of this blog where people narcs and empaths discuss their thoughts and experiences…true reasons which HG hasn’t really divulged, in bits and pieces yes. ”

        You are a sovereign adult and is for you and only you to decide which information you want to take and consider as useful for your own understanding , development and protection (regardless what the aims of others are).

        If it is the latter: Let us ( the rest of us) decide for ourselves..

        You are certainly feeling fear about something arising from your own experience and that is understandable …but that fear is making you focus on them again ( the narcissists) instead of focusing on yourself.

        Remember: it is not about them anymore , it is about you this time: take the information and knowledge given here to your OWN advantage and protection.

      16. Hello Good People.
        I thank you again for your profound sharing, insights and clarifications. I also feel compelled to apologise if I offended anyone and HG by my doubts and questions, and how inappropriate my joke came across (Sorry specifically to Ugotit).
        Sometimes it seems the only people who understand are right here in this online world. I am not biting the hand that feeds me… (bad joke and pun again sorry).

        I fully understand that it is personal choice in being here and taking what wisdom comes with, and in discerning what is “good” to apply for the self. It is a scary world to be in when one doesn’t know the face and name to all these, and who to trust for help. I suppose I was just deeply concerned about the sort of gratification HG got out of (doing) this and in asking further, I had my answer, so thank you HG et al for indulging me. I feel like a minion here to the bigger scheme of things, you know?

        Twilight – in reference to:
        “Many in the psychological world are of HGs kind and have no awareness to their own disorder, so how could they even convey it to the masses to understand.”
        Maybe they are also seeking to understand and make meaning of their disordered manner of being. The reason why my narc is seeing a therapist (which he and sometimes HG also say is of zero help and use) is because it is mandated on them by a court order. So they sure do and can have inklings to what they are, maybe not soon but later and eventually. And they could just as well be seeking answers (and therefore get ideas) here. Yes it might not work for you, HG as you are already a Greater and you know how to get YOUR kicks, but how sure can we be that unknowing Lessers and Mid Rangers are not revelling and lapping up the (slight) fuel here of emotional empaths? After all they really don’t know better, as was said.

        “What makes these truths?
        Accuracy.”
        The accuracy is astounding. And somewhat carthartic.

        “If you needed heart surgery you would see a heart surgeon, correct? A person with the expertise to see and take care of the issue and then give the advice on what one needs to do to correct the issue in the best way possible.”
        I get the parallel example, but see,
        I wouldn’t really ask a heart surgeon to operate on me when he is kinda undergoing heart failure or just went for bypass. I am not wishing you cardiac arrest HG but it is a great example here of a heart expert with less of a heart or well, little or fewer emotions than normal, and who is actually doing something good with a heart. It is really an oxymoronic ironical situation. You get my drift.

        RealitySetsIn – as to your qn.:
        “In your opinion what do you think would be a narcs reason for lurking here? Also if they are lurking they wouldn’t use their real name.”
        As explained above, I think they are also mandated to and trying to understand themselves. Preying. Finding. Being amused and entertainment. I mean we can agree that there are so many sick people around, so why wouldn’t they lurk? It is a fantastic and intellectually fueling spot to be in. 3rd party fuel drawing. And Lessers and Mids surely would love using their real names cos they love the sound of it, no qualms to magnify their own identity and perhaps hoping it would even scare (fuel for them) some of their victims whom they know are on here – stupid no less not to be anonymous but their intentions again could stem from evil, a bit like “I’m watching you….”. Ick!

      17. Lesser and Mid-Rangers who do not know what they are would gain no fuel from reading here because the responses are directed mainly to me and occasionally to other commenters – not to the lurking narcissist. So, if they lurk but do not contribute, they are gaining no fuel.
        If a Lesser of Mid-Ranger was commenting and people responded to those comments, yes they would gain some fuel here from those responses BUT it is of lower potency and low amounts.
        The number of narcissists that appear here and actively comment is very low indeed and there are periods of time where none at all are active. I always spot them and keep a watchful eye on their behaviour. They also do not stay very long because they usually show their true colours and storm off (Lesser) or flounce off (Mid-Ranger).

      18. Prey

        The first time I saw your name here, my first thought was….Predator not prey.

        Time has a way of revealing things

      19. Prey
        Yes I see your point. My ex narc is a greater I believe. I could be wrong though. I don’t think he would waste his time reading what I have to say as he is so above that in his own mind I’m sure. It might fascinate him with entertainment for about two minutes mabey. I do not believe he knows what he is. I believe he functions out of instinct. I believe him to be a psychopath. He’s not interested in me anymore. He’s also a busy man with his career. He also had a young son.

      20. Hi Prey. I think you have some fundamental misunderstanding of how fuel is “cultivated.” It is sometimes a complex and crafty process (greater), though more often than not, is simply reaction and result (lesser and mid). “This feels good and so I will do it.” From what I have gleaned from reading here, and experiences in real life, even when the process in long and involved, the structure of the fuel supply is not some carefully plotted blueprint. Only in reverse can it be seen with 20/20 vision. It is simply the necessary and logical thing to do for the N to protect themselves. I think very, very few Ns understand how and why they harvest their fuel, even the Greaters. HG is the exception that proves the rule. I don’t believe virtually* any are sitting around reading blogs and plotting some genius scheme to cultivate exceptional fuel, then harvest it at its ripest potency. It’s closer to Newton’s third law than the script of an Aronofsky film. Perhaps HG could guide you to a book or article with a clearer explanation – this seems terribly difficult to explain.

      21. SuperXena – WRT:
        “You are a sovereign adult and is for you and only you to decide which information you want to take and consider as useful for your own understanding , development and protection (regardless what the aims of others are).”
        It is precisely that information is given in piecemeal (so that we come back to lap up more) that I felt the need to clarify. Make no mistake my line of questions were to discern precisely that for my own understanding. I am not prying or questioning that of why others are here. I was defending and challenging mine.

      22. Prey,
        Thank you for your answer. I respect your point of view although I do not agree with it.
        Concerning : “It is precisely that information is given in piecemeal (so that we come back to lap up more) that I felt the need to clarify.”

        If you rather prefer to get the “whole” meal of information, I would strongly recommend you to read all the books. And further more: where does the need of clarifying the way the information is presented here come from ?

        It is very transparent to me from your comments and observations here ( to other bloggers as well) that you have an extremely huge need of control.

        I really hope that you use the information given here to your own development…if that is the main aim of you being here.

      23. SuperXena:
        With reference to “It is very transparent to me from your comments and observations here ( to other bloggers as well) that you have an extremely huge need of control.”

        You were right on all counts in several of your posts and agreeable with respectfully, even I agree to disagree, but far from the truth with your presumptious comment to know me. No one should speak for anyone, and surely not you of other bloggers or readers, except I suppose HG speaks for all narcs. No one really challenges that but I guess that seems okay. What makes anything “right”?

        If I wasn’t so busy trying to put together my legal case and defending myself for the attack I was promised in the past week, I would most certainly have the energy and time to read all of HGs books to arm myself. If I did do, I would be making this entire Narc experience my life. Think about it. As much as we get away from one main Narc in our lives, we gravitate to another’s “safe zone”. Suckers are us.

      24. Twilight –
        I meant my name to be the Noun not the Verb. The prey who has been preyed on. The predator at large is still hard at work and I have nowhere else to run cos I have been found.

  21. Thank you, HG. I suspect my mom to be narcissistic. I can relate to a lot of what you wrote in ACON’s memes. Sometimes I am put on a pedestal while at other times I am blamed for everything. So I was wondering.

  22. I think my ex N has an inferiority complex and tries to cover that up by appearing to be the nice and helpful guy who everyone loves. However i think there is some genetic component too.. in that i can see him as another version of his dad who also looks for admiration and praise from others and is always chasing compliments and acceptance from people. I think therefore that his dad probably never showed my ex N much affection as he was too interested in himself. Hence my ex N’s inferiority complex and lack of happiness probably emerged as a child. Even though the narc is very good looking and charming (facade), he is very short, and that coupled with lack of attention and possibly belittling frm his father and peers due to his short stature could have paved his way in life. He detests it when people are happy because he is not, but he pretends that he is. I also absolutely know he mirrors others and tries to adopt behaviors and mannerisms which are not his own which suggests he is a lost individual. All of this though, does not excuse his anger filled rage he unleashed on me in devaluation after i found out he is a huge liar and cheat..

    1. Could he be a Co Dependent here rather than a Narc? HG, insights? Co-Ds tend to supply in order to receive emotions and affirmations, because they lack them.

  23. I believe Narcissists are broken human beings caused primarily by childhood trauma. Some are also created through indulgence, some through brain injury. As a person with a Personality Disorder, I KNOW mine was created as a maladaptive survival mechanism due to the abuse, violence, emotional neglect, abandonment, molestation etc. that I was exposed to as a child. My exUGN is the same. So are our respective siblings. The difference in our outcomes & places on the spectrum? Our type of abusers, the type & extent of the abuse, the role of the other significant people/caregivers/parents in our lives & the internalisation of this by our ‘real self’. No one is designed or created to be abused or be an abuser. It is because we live in a broken world & we all look to fill the void be it through sport, work, family, travel, entertainment, alcohol, drugs, gambling, sex, codependency etc. It is a spirituality issue. We were created to be whole with the physical, spiritual, psychological & emotional functioning as one & that got fragmented & another reason why there is so much comorbidity within these disorders. Each dimension of us is trying to survive, doing its own thing instead of working cohesively & actually living life fully as a whole.
    Personality Disorders are based on lies & distorted thinking patterns. That we are not good enough, that we don’t matter, that we aren’t safe, that we are not loveable, that we will cease to exist. All fear & lies to stop us seeing, believing & living the abundance God created us for & that it is His love that fills the void & makes us whole & that there is no fear or deceit in love.

    To believe change is not possible is to believe a lie & to give your power away.

    A line from ‘The Beast’ in Split comes to mind.
    ‘Rejoice! The broken are the more evolved.’
    Our brokenness raises our awareness of the world but we must not be blinded to see what the fight is really for.

  24. I think we do a great disservice to narcs by imbuing them with all these magical qualities they are simply personality disordered no more special than borderlines or antisocials or histrionics

    1. You mean you do us a huge disservice by putting us alongside histrionics and borderlines. I need to shower again.

      1. I wonder if telling the Narc that he has achieved nothing in life will criticise him.

    2. I agree bpd and npd are both personality disorders. One is no better than the other. They are both disruptive to ones life and those around them.

      1. Narcissists really do seem to achieve greater things in the material world .

    3. Some narcissists are amazingy hard workers and very driven, so they get a lot done that other people wouldn’t. The narc I was involved with is quite an extraordinary man… he’s very useful to his clients, employees, even his “Stepford” family. He gets a lot of stuff done and is constantly in
      moving, working, achieving. He can also motivate others to achieve extraordinary things (if he feels like it and he gains fuel from being “the reason xyz did all that”).

      For all intents and purposes, in today’s individualist, capitalist society, narcissists are optimally equipped and high-functioning. I wonder how a different type of society would deal with narcissist – ostracize them? Punish them? Is narcissism even a thing in other types of society?

      1. Hi Morning sun, yes, some narcissists are indeed driven and well equipped to survive in a capitalist society, etc. but NOT ALL OF THEM. Think of Lesser narcissists (or at least LLN and MLN): lazy, uneducated, zero business acumen, zero charm. I wouldn’t call those achievers.

      2. EmP, you’re absolutely right. The last paragraph is missing a “some”.

      3. My narc would get insanely focused on certain things which I would find ridiculous-digging shrubs out on 100 degree day and dry soil. Or getting the oil paint off old doors using a hand sander and not enough grit sandpaper- taking a day to work on like a door…maybe two..then the oil paint would still be kind of there.
        However she could not perform in a team environment in an office well- had intellligence but would focus on wrong things and NOT listen. would get into arguments/ circular conversations and got fired multiple times from good paying jobs. Yeah she could hold a conversation about just about anything with a stranger… Which always entirely boggled my mind and made me feel like “I will never succeed successfully in this world if this is what people are looking for.” So damn confusing

      4. Kathleen,

        What you wrote really reminded me of my Lesser sister. Always arguing with everyone. Never listening. Definitely not a team worker.
        After dropping out of school at 15, she only had one real job, which she had to leave after breaking two doors with her fists because ‘she didn’t like the way her boss was treating her’.
        The first thing she ever bought herself was a toy gun.

    4. Hi Ugotit,
      That’s why I prefer to call them people with NPD instead of Narcissists, note the capital N! That gives them too much aura and mystique. (HG excluded, obviously…)

      1. I think u have a lot of great qualities but in my opinion you would have them iregardless of being a narc just my opinion

      2. I agree with Ugotit – which is why I’m still hoping to contribute to Hg’s finding a worthy reason for facing the Creature.. and finally experience love & joy..

        What is a narcissist?
        – A steal trap hidden, unseen, with the contradiction of being placed in a most alluring, sensual, beautiful place.. perhaps perfumed, intoxicating.. that closes ever so slowly.. and sometimes one can escape, with merely a scrape.. painful, bloody, leaving a scar, but other times it closes.. and the result is suffocation…

        – A person whose subconscious seeks what it needs – and what the empath has in spades – love & empathy, but the fear and pain of experiencing the intimacy that those positive emotions bring with them, ignites the reaction that explodes and pushes the other away.. always keeping anyone from getting too close…

      3. Nuit Étoilée – love your description!

        “A person whose subconscious seeks what it needs – and what the empath has in spades – love & empathy, but the fear and pain of experiencing the intimacy that those positive emotions bring with them, ignites the reaction that explodes and pushes the other away.. always keeping anyone from getting too close…”

      4. Thank you WhoCares. It feels good to be understood!

        I really think fear is behind many of the problems in human relationships..

        ..considering what some of us have lived, it’s no wonder we have trust issues!

  25. I think there is a very small percentage of narcissists who are born that way, with a brain that is incapable of empathy. Other than that, people are born with both narcissistic and empathic tendency and depending on where they are on the spectrum initially, the nurture they receive and the environment they live in might push them in one direction or other. Even those who are incapable of empathy can become an asset to society if provided with the proper conditions and/or guidance.

    I don’t think narcissism in its extreme manifestation is a necessary evil in society, but the ability to act a certain way despite what one feels is. Also, the ability to be aggressive and destructive is necessary for survival. The difference is, do we act to the detriment of others just because we can, or because we must? In order to avoid losing something important or to gain something that we don’t necessarily need? Of course, narcissists may believe they must act that way or their survival is endangered. This is not a rational belief, but an emotional one. Is that what you believe, HG?

    When I was much younger, I indulged in fantasies of having a psychopath’s mind. I tried to imagine what a murderer, rapist or paedophile feels, for example. How they perceive the world, how they feel their urges and act to meet them… I suppose it was my way of freeing my mind from the constraints of imposed emotional rules – I am not allowed to feel a certain way, that is the message I received in childhood. I am not allowed to hate or want things for myself. I may only take care of others and live off of their happiness and benevolence. The illusion that became ingrained in me was that I could control another person’s actions – by being useful to them and meeting their needs etc. Thus I could ensure that they will take care of me, love me, respect me, confirm my value and really make my existence meaningful – and that was the only way to do it.

    Anyway (sorry this is getting so long), I have come to find that a middle ground between empathy and narcissism is the best way to go. I am capable of cold hard logic and even malice, if I find it warranted. My ability to feel a range of powerful emotions is not a vulnerability. I can use my mind to redirect and transform my emotions and/or control my actions regardless of how I feel. I like being connected with people but I have no problem being alone.

    The one crucial difference to the narcissistic perspective is, I suppose, that I don’t feel entitled. I don’t feel like I deserve anything more, better, etc. than other people. That doesn’t mean that I can’t strive for it, sure I can, and occasionally do. But there’s nothing in me inherently that would make me more deserving of better than others. I believe that narcissists – those who have become such due to childhood trauma – have received the message that they do not matter and (subconsciously) chose to reverse that feeling. To them, the idea that others matter may nullify their own sense of mattering, being important, being valuable.

    1. Morning sun

      I was just curious….I have read a lot of your comments and I was wondering if you have a career in psychology? You sound like you have some expert knowledge and I do not mean that sarcastically. Not to pry but was wondering if my hunch was right.?!??

      1. RealitySetsIn, I don’t have a background in psychology. I would have studied it had the study not included four(!) courses in statistics. I detest anything to do with crunching numbers, so that was a no-go.
        What insight I have stems from a combination of reading about psychology, intense observation of self and others, and talking with my therapist. So no expertly founded information from me, just personal observations. 🙂

    1. Interesting video and I agree with your observation about conveying the essence, well spotted. (Don’t like the song though.)

    2. narseeker

      I would agree with HG interesting video…and I know everyone can have different interpretations of such things. I feel the man in the video was struggling with conscience and narcs do not do that. At least not the mid range to greatest…. but I agree with HG as well I don’t like the song lol…maybe if it was being done by cold play lol…more soft and melancholic not so thrasher and the ugly paint on his face….however the scene with the wolf was cool and also reminded me how my ex narc once said when I told him I had a dream about a wolf 🐺 and that it was following me and I was scared at first telling the wolf to go and he kept following me but then he just came right up to me and was friendly and I was surprised and I pet him. And I no longer felt any fear. He also had a peaceful look in his blue eyes and I felt more trusting of it. Anyways when I told him about that dream he looked at me all serious and said….”I am the wolf in your dream”…”that was me”…. and this was before devaluation started and I just wondered in my mind why would he say that? Anyways I later learned that yes he was indeed a wolf 🐺. So weird thinking back on that now. I also thought a scene in the video was interesting where the face of the human turned to that of a wolf. Anyways that’s my 2 cents. I know your comment was directed to HG but yeah lol…..

      1. My narc and I were talking about nothing in particular in front of his 3 children when he made the statement, “I am the devil.” No one said a word. No one laughed. No one even flinched.
        Lol .it may have been the first and last time he told the truth

      2. Hi RealitySetsIn,I am sorry for the delay, I have a problem regarding notifications in World Press. Mistakenly I wrote a different link, but what I had in mind was the song “The Eagle has Landed” by Avatar (please see link in comment below).
        In the video, this man is celebrating with his friends/coterie before he engages in a round of conning his unsuspecting victims (selling magic potions to cure their disabilities, diseases and heart aches). The victims unite to seek revenge after they realize they have been conned out of their beauty, health, money and loved ones. There is an interesting (albeit cruel) plot twist in the end.
        Also the lyrics are telling :
        “Ladies and gentlemen
        Your hero has returned again
        Everything is going to be okay-ay-ay-ay
        Ladies and gentlemen
        Your shepherd and your very best friend..”

        And in my own personal madness: 1. I peeked at N’s social media. 2. THIS is what he posted (WHILE it looks like he is reaching for the shelved appliance -me me me?, but who knows) 3. HG’s response “Interesting video and I agree with your observation about conveying the essence, well spotted. (Don’t like the song though.)” made me feel potency, depth and a humane and invigorating connection. Somebody shoot me.

      3. Narseeker
        Um I’m not sure if I quite understood what you meant at the end of your comment but if I hurt your feelings I’m sorry. 🙁 I mean you didn’t make the video and you are not the band. I mean people can have different likes in music. I don’t find it insulting if someone doesn’t like the kind of music I like. It’s just a taste thing. I do agree I could have left my opinion off the comment. Again sorry. Also yes I did look at the second video of the eagle has landed and I do agree it does depict the narcissist. I guess sometimes I myself can be insensitive and do not intend to. This was one time I guess that I was insensitive but I promise it wasn’t my intention. So no let’s not shoot you….not over a band or video opinion. ✌🏻

    3. Narseeker
      Also I feel the song “rat in a cage” by Smashing Pumkins could be a good song to sing and scream and get emotions out when driving…alone of course lol with no person watching….I’ve often identified with the lyrics in the song….”despite all my RAGEEEE….,”I am still just a rat in a cage”…..even though I don’t like thrasher sounding stuff so much…that’s one song I could probably scream to the top of my lungs while driving to relieve anger and stress lol…..

      1. HG

        At least some of us narcissists achieve things.

        Ouch HG….that one hurts!
        i am not diagnosed bpd but self diagnosed….but still that stung. 🙁

      2. That’s my view RS, but as you know I repeatedly state that many matters are that of perspective. I am being honest as I always am in this place. I expect you disagree with me and you are perfectly entitled to do so. It was not directed at you personally as I do not know you. Do keep in mind that I take mild offence at being compared in the manner that I was, but I understand why someone may state that. I have merely stated my honest view and do so purely for the purposes of people understanding the way I think and I behave (which I am sure you will agree is one of the major purposes of the blog) and is not done to be deliberately provocative or create a shit storm. I see it as something people would be interested in understanding my mind set and similarly as you have done, you are entitled to express your own opinion and reaction. I have my view and I have mine.

      3. I suspected you might take offense but my intention was not to.imply that a histrionic behaves like a narcissist or vice versa. My point was that they are all classified as personality disorders so what is the point of calling a narcissist a demon or an alien or the one that irks me the most Jezebel spirit. We don’t call other personality disorders these bizarre names

      4. No, I understood you were not suggesting we behave similarly, I took offence to being placed on a par with those disorders. I accept those of all three are labelled as those who disorders, no issue with that. I have just expressed my opinion about being placed on a par. The purpose of the blog is for readers understand what I think and do (amongst many other aspects also). I have responded and consider the matter addressed. I have no ‘grudge’ against you for stating your view Ugotit. You stated your view and I gave mine. That is what the blog is about.

        I agree with you about the odd classifications re NPD – the Jezebl spirit irks me also.

      5. Not to beat a dead horse but I’d like to be honest without offending any one in the group with these other disorders but narcissists are clearly more socially appealing than borderlines or especially histrionics I’ve never met a histrionic but I had a borderline roommate and she was challenging to say the least. The real reason I posted the comment about all personality disorders being the same is because I still cling naively to the wish that you would reject your narcissism. I know you said the discussion is closed so you can choose not to post this, but in my ideal world you would see your positive traits exist independently of your narcissism such as your intelligence and writing ability.

      6. Hi HG…i hope i didnt offend you. I just stated that i feel npd is not better than bpd and really they are different so to compare is futile. I know you dislike midrangers and suspect bpd’s to be midrangers. I just feel to look down on another type of personality disorder isnt fair bc theyre both personality disorders and are in the dsm. My view in no way is directed at you. I have the upmost respect for what youve achieved and the work you put in here and how youve helped people.
        I do get why youd feel offended being classed in the same category but i dont want people with bpd to feel theyre below someone with npd. They are just different each with their own struggles.

      7. No. If a comment causes offence to me, so be it, I can deal with it and I will say as such and express my view as always. This is a place for constructive observation, comment, opinion and questions. As I have mentioned before, robust responses and points of view are to be expected and nobody should shy away from expressing themselves. I find the exchange intellectually stimulating and it is important for readers to understand my views etc – you often will not like them but it is about understanding.

        I appreciate your comments and remain of the view NA that you always contribute to this place in an effective and constructive fashion. Do carry on !

      8. That reply almost made me tear up a bit especially when you said if a comment offends you you can deal with it don’t we all need to learn this lesson especially me now are u sure your the narc here lol

      9. I do deal with it. I have always had to. There is no point in doing anything else.

      10. Thx so much for your reply HG. Thats very kind and why i enjoy this blog so much bc we can be ourselves and contribute openly 🙂

    1. Hey, mini duck. Maybe he was a MR because he used silent treatments a lot and became the incredible sulk more than once. On the other hand, in the Fourth Series finale, he shed a few tears when came to realise Amber was about to die because of him, so he was capable of regret, guilt and even emotional empathy, therefore not a narc. His narcissistic traits and sociopathy were considerably high, though

      1. Carol M

        Way to Narc me! I havent seen the fourth series finale.

        Teasing. Never watched it.

      2. Did he cry because he empathized with her or did he cry because he wasn’t perfect or might get in trouble? (I don’t watch but tears don’t mean anything to a narc)

      3. Thinker: He cried after the realisation Amber would die instead of him and because of him. They were both involved in a bus accident in which his staff entered her thigh, however, any of them would be within the bus if he hadn’t done such a tantrum and accepted the ride she was offering him. He did not cry to play a scene to the audience, he was remorseful of his own misguided actions.

      1. Indeed he is a genious, I’m not convinced he is a narc, though. He did not hoover Stacey nor Cuddy.

      1. Well, maybe, but he had a normal sex drive and high energy levels, if he was a cerebral lower greater he would probably be leaning more towards asexuality.

    2. No offense here but I think House was more typical of being on the Autism spectrum. He had social issues, not sociopathic ones. And he wasn’t evil. The narc’s fibre is evil. And we are all subject to it just by virtue of being here reveling in narcisism.

      1. Yes, or maybe he has Aspengers’ syndrome, just like Dr Sheldon Cooper. It’s a genious thing!

    3. Not a narc. House had perhaps an overly healthy level of narcissism, but not the deficit of empathy required to constitute a disorder.

  26. I just read ninety of all of your comments and feel so lucky to have found such intelligent and insightful people who have expressed themselves for everyone’s benefit! Wow!

    I chose the following – individual who has evolved differently in order to survive. I think this applies to anyone who is not a “normal”. Who says that THEY are the normal ones??

    Also, an unaware emotionally stunted individual because of “guy who turned out to be married” (I ended seeing him after this became known to me). We were sitting at a bar and I spoke to him as I had done to my son over the years, telling him that there were other people there besides us and that we should be considerate of them.

    A human being albeit a damaged one. I have compassion for all True Victims. I do not believe that all Narcissists are victims, however, because the most dangerous man that I have known was not abused and his two younger brothers were relatively normal. He was an aboration.

    A malevalent individual who revels in their malice- because of reading and listening to HG’s blog and videos.

    Capable of brilliance and impressive achievement, but I would guess that this only applies to Greaters. I think that this also applies to Empaths, but we do it quietly.

    My final choice was a demonic entity because who else would want to break up a family? Who else would have torn us apart? I am talking to you, “wicked witch of the east” (my ex-husband’s mother), “devil in the flesh #1” and “who are you again?”..

    1. Please indulge me as I add my ex-husband, “ice eyes” as the true demonic entity here (even though his mother is the witch), he should have stood up to her, done the right thing and acted like a MAN!!!! He no longer gets to make her the scapegoat and shirk blame, shame and disappointment in his character – that belongs to him.

    1. HG said Narcs have emotions. Just not as many as those of Normals. They are empty in a sense of being depleted, but are not devoid to feeling emotions. Yes HG?

  27. The more you give, the better armed they become.
    Your own voice now commodity, disguised as charitable service, a webbed projection. Buy more into it, defensively jump.

    Stop giving them ammunition.

    1. Oh please. Like you can help it. Ammunition is when the though of you even creeps into their minds (like of the 6th Sphere of Influence). Dont preach. You make desperate escapists roll their eyes.

  28. I have another version.

    A parasite
    ˈparəsʌɪt/
    noun: parasite; plural noun: parasites

    1.an organism which lives in or on another organism (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the other’s expense.
    “the parasite attaches itself to the mouths of fishes”

    2.derogatory
    a person who habitually relies on or exploits others and gives nothing in return.
    “the capitalist is really a parasite on the workers”

    1. Oh, Prey, now you nailed it. Actually, the one trait that made me break up with the nex the first time was he was an obvious leech. And up to this day he still owes me nearly $ 2.000 euros.

      1. Id give €2000 to stop him from hoovering me and hanging me and those I know, out to dry in all areas if my life. They are parasitic and toxic to everyone around and even themselves. I dont wish death on anyone and Im not capable if murder, but really, sometimes like a cold blooded bug or parasite that they are, you just want to flick them off your person and crush them out so that the sucking stops. It is a reflex almost. If they cant get to you, they try your kid or family and prey on them too to illicit reactions or responses from you which you tend to feel a need to defend.

      2. Hello Prey, actually, I could have my $2 grand back if I would either “blackmail” or simply threat to expose him, however, it would also imply to break the NoContact and the GOST so I’d rather not. I’m sorry for you and I know being devalued, hoovered and smeared is such a traumatic experience but you can and will overcome this.

      3. I am with you on the same thought. I would too but it would mean breaking No Contact. Do you think legal injunctions will put a stop to their ways and perhaps even bankrupt the narc? If given the choice to go down this dreaded path of using more energy to fight the narc off, would you? Would anyone?

      4. Yes, Prey, if you can either get a restraining order or sue him for money he owes you, specially if he is a Mid Ranger, I think I would and you probably should consider this a doable move. Mr Tudor has written about how each school and cadre would react to legal matters, maybe you can give it a careful reading before making a decision. As for myself, I was fortunate to escape to my home town and now I live in another continent so I have a mild shield from the nex, however, I confess I have been indulging myself scheming plots of revenge and even have an archive of fully humiliating exposure including letters of his own hand, whatsapp audios, printed conversations and even compromising pictures prepared to be sent to his boss, sister, ‘best friend’ (read liutenant).

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