Poll : What Do You Think The Narcissist Is?
You know from reading my work that there are varying schools and cadres of narcissist which encompasses those individuals who are unaware of what they are and bowl through life like an out of control wrecking ball wreaking havoc and destruction and not casting backwards glance. Others of our kind are charming, apparently pleasant and kind, yet behind that facade there is always someone who is suffering. Some of our kind are high achievers, ruthless leaders and bold pioneers who always get their way, no matter what the cost to others but as ever the end justifies the means. Others of the brethren always grab the limelight, are show-offs and prone to bold boasts. There are those who are passive aggressive, sniping from the sidelines, scurrying here and there as they play the “always the victim, it’s never their fault” card because people are just downright horrible to them despite their best efforts to please and help others. These are but some of the manifestations of our kind. Yes, we come in a variety of “flavours”.
But what do you actually think we are? In the comments sections across my various platforms I see reference to the fact that we are actually an alien life form that has somehow blended in with humans, not quite able to replicate humans but doing a convincing job a lot of the time. Some suggest we are also victims, people who have suffered in a way similar to way that we make other people suffer. There is a begrudging respect for the brilliance we can exhibit but tempered with the caveats for the price that is paid for staring at the sun for too long. Views range from possession by demons or dark spirits through to a toddler in an adult’s body.
What is your view? You may choose as many as you deem applicable from the list below before casting your vote and as usual, do furnish me with your interesting and articulate views in the comments section.
Thank you for participating.
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HG, your answer to H. was honest, which is interesting in itself. And your choice of the top 3 showed your belief system. Top One is most interesting. Your sister and your brother survived also, therefore it was not necessary to become a full blown narc. It was a choice, which fits best to your dominating inherent character traits. It is still no excuse to take the easy way of life. Top 3 is (in my opinion) an error. Your kind always caused more destruction than built up good things in history. Of course you need a strong will and a lot of fantasy and a high intelligence to create new things, but it is possible without recklessness. It is only harder to achieve. And at last : others are brilliant too.
They are not only capable of brilliance, they are.
My brother and sister did not bear the brunt of what I did and (as I have mentioned previously although you possibly may have missed it) my father provided them with some protection, I had none from him.
HG, if a narcissistic parent has only one child, is it possible that the child is treated/ viewed as both a golden child and a scapegoat?
The roles may alternate but it is unusual.
I haven’t found much reading about your childhood and I’m fairly new to your work so if my questions are redundant, please forgive. Were you the eldest child in the family? If so, did you find yourself taking the role as protector of the younger ones like your father did?
There is reference to my childhood in parts in a number of my books (more to follow in titles specific to my childhood and beyond).
1. I was not the eldest.
Thank you for your answer.
You are welcome.
HG
Do you believe it’s possible that your father is the reason you are a narcissist? Was your mother loving? Or nurturing? Sorry I haven’t seen much information on your childhood.
It is down to genetics and the behaviour of my mother principally. There are other performers also that contributed – my father by failing to protect, other family members who were co-conspirators.
HG
I am sorry about that. A child needs love the most from mother. You where born from her womb. She carried you for 9 months inside her. She felt your movements and any woman who doesn’t bond with her son or love and cherish him with everything in her being doesn’t or didn’t deserve that son. And to contribute to hurting him and his suffering is an evil beyond my comprehension. I gave birth to a boy and he 16 now and now is living with his father. I raised him though and I love and loved him with all of heart. I know that your family did in some way contribute to all of your achievements by something they did. And so materialistically speaking you are great as far as success. But unfortunately that is not enough. Being a money making machine is not all there is to life. She was void of love. Or she was sadistic. Beyond my comprehension. I may not have made a money making machine out of my son. But I will tell you he will always know he is loved. In fact there is no love that is greater than the love of a mother for her children. I can say that I am very protective and I would die for them if it meant I could save their lives. That’s the love of a mother. I too did not have the love of my mom and she was a bit sadistic. Of course I was a child and I had no idea what was happening or the dynamics what was going on and the mind games and the sadistic and no support no love. I still loved her so much. But anyways sorry to go on so long!
I wonder why that is…as if you were singled out or? I mean you had a brother and a sister and you are not the eldest. Why you? Why did you have to bear the brunt and not protected? I am just now only reading this page of comments…this blog is so blowing up with comments I am just now getting to these..wow!
There are a number of reasons and one in particular. They are explained in detailed in the book “Little Boy Lost” which is currently being written.
I very much look forward to reading that. Any idea on a due date? Interestingly, I am working on a book with a similar title. A friend’s idea, well see how it goes…
Hi HG…i cant wait to read little boy lost!
Your family dynamic fascinates me. I was watching a utube and a story came up that sounded a lot like your scenerio. There was a guy that wrote in and his father did the same thing as far as not protecting him from his narc mother. In fact when he went off to university the father tried to sabatoge his plans. Its thought the father was using the son as a scapegoat to get out of the abuse himself. He wanted someone to fill in for him so he could escape the wrath of the mother. This to me is a midrange narcissist. The person in the utube referred to the son as a “son husband”. Basically the mother poured all her praise and also scorn on the son while the father sat idle and did nothing. Their marriage started to unravel once the son went off to university bc there was no one in place to deal with the matrinarc but the father.
Im not saying this is your scenerio bc i dont know your family but from what ive read this reminded of what ive read here. It also cast a different light on what i first thought about your father. Of course one can never know unless you know them personally but i no longer view your father as an innocent. If you as a parent sit idle and do nothing you are an enabler but if you purposely do nothing to escape what your child is enduring imo youre worse than the narcissist.
Again this is going by the situation on utube and may be different from yours.
I turned cold reading how similar the childhood experience imprinted the narcs we now face. It always always points to an abusive mother and unprotective father if there is one in the picture. My narc is a younger child who was often belittled, compared to, abused and lost right through to young adulthood. He was however very bright and I think he had some learning difficulty but was no doubt highly intelligent. I believed he was also mistreated (in the sadistic masochistic ways) by older women in his teen years. He now victimizes women AND men, especially men who show some form of “weakness” that he can attack or dominate over. He has an inferior complex towards men in particular and is always out to prove his superiority and manhood in subtle comments and overt actions bordering on physical violence. A guise of gungho protector of women. I find this all very strange and unexplainable. Happy to be enlightened.
But there’s always David Icke paranoia.
David Ickes theories dont appear to me to be any more laughable than those offered by organized religion.
True, he has turned matters around quite well from being a laughing stock to having millions of followers. His turquoise triangle was entertaining. He’s fastidious about cleanliness which is a good thing. He gives zero fucks about what people think of him – good job really.
I watched a movie last year about a sanatorium in Switzerland, where the main character has to realize in the end that she was surrounding by reptilian aliens behind human masks in reality, who suck some kind of cure (title of movie) or elixir from human bodies. I hated the movie when I watched it but in hindsight …. it’s exactly how I felt when I realized what my parents, ex-boyfriends, etc. are.
The exnarc appeared to me like an alien at times … and he didn’t even refute it, he believed in aliens, lol.
But seriously, I think the people Icke refers to are in fact a family of narcs, with some really horrible programming methods for their children. The look in the eyes of some of them is scary.
I’ve never found conspiracy particularly interesting.
Me neither. It means relying on others and that’s when there are problems. Puppeteering is far more effective.
/Iroll
Nor I religion. But that never stops it from being offered all the same.
As in: not being a conspiracy at the same level, but one head playing everyone else?
It’s like, science fiction for racists with homosexual panic, so mundane and creepy.
/Iroll
I dont subscribe to conspiracy. I just find it funny that people will mock it and reptilian theories while buying into the bible, which btw you have summed up nicely for me in your last post. Thank you.
Some become narcs and some become empaths. Why? I have no idea…
Duality Balance ONE cannot exist without the other
Interestingly enough, some consider empathy a personality disorder, just like narcissism. And that is why, maybe, ACONs turn out to be either narcissists or empaths but NEVER ‘normals’ (i.e. “emotionally healthy and well rounded individuals”, to quote HG).
Interesting point.
I kind of agree with that view too, EmP.
Interesting comment EmP. I have reflected a lot about what you wrote.
I have a question: Where have you read that empathy is a personality disorder?
As far as I know,the feeling of empathy is not a personality disorder.
It is an innate character/trait that it is present in all human beings (except i.ex.narcissists/narcissists-psychopaths) in different degrees depending on where on the spectrum you “were” placed on.
Empathy: ” The capacity of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another of either the past or present without having the feelings, thoughts, and experience fully communicated in an objectively or explicit manner” ( Merriam-Webster).
There is a very good article here that explains the three different strands of empathy:
https://narcsite.com/2018/01/19/the-three-strands-of-empathy-3/
The environment in which children are reared can make a big difference in whether empathy is fostered or suppressed. Healthy self-esteem is essential to empathy, so anything that helps children feel good about themselves will also help them recognise and respond effectively and in a healthy way to the feelings of others.
As I understand and according to the theories about this matter: personal disorders being cluster A,B or C ( Paranoid PD, Schizoid PD, Schizotypal PD
Antisocial PD, Borderline PD, Histrionic PD, Narcissistic PD
Avoidant PD, Dependent PD, Obsessive-compulsive PD) are due to a combination of both genetic predisposition ( which characters/traits you are born with) and external factors ( during childhood that trigger and /or reinforce it).
What I mean is that you have to have the “seed” in you and the soil that makes it manifest , grow and develop .
I do not think you just “become ” a Narcissist (or any of the other personality disorders ) just by being an ACON in the case of narcissism as much as I believe that you can still find “emotionally healthy and well rounded individuals” even if the environment as a child has been adverse.
The way I see my former narcissist -psychopath(sociopath) is an individual that evolved that way for survival. Since he is a psychopath his brain is wired differently (devoid of the capacity of feeling empathy ) and he had a traumatic childhood : he had to develop his own survival strategies to cope with his narcissism-psychopathy which has always been there and will always be.
I do not know if the same could be applied to narcissists that are not psychopaths. As far as I have learned here: all psychopaths are narcissist but not all narcissists are psychopaths.
Playing with different scenarios:
1. You have the genetic predisposition( the “seed”) and the environment ( traumatic childhood) that triggers, makes it grow ,manifest itself ,develop and reinforces it: then you have a narcissist that is more aggressive ,destructive ,maligne in their behaviour.A full-blown narcissist.
2. You have the genetic predisposition and the child was not exposed to trauma :you have a narcissist whose behaviour is not as aggressive as the first one. The narcissistic behaviours manifest themselves in a different way but they are still there.
I guess this could be applied in the case of any other Personality Disorder: “seed”+ external factors= different developments/different manifestations of the disorder.
Hi emp….i think people get confused with empaths and codependants. You can be an empath but have clear boundaries and not put up with abuse. Codependants can also be empaths but they lack self love and respect of their boundaries. They put up with abuse and this is to me the other side of the coin. To be an empath is not a personality disorder imo its a gift but only if that empathy is directed at oneself as well. Boundaries firmly in place and a healthy self love. To feel for other people is what makes us special. A world without empathy would be a sad one and a scary one.
Hi SuperXena and narc affair,
Thank you for your replies.
I read about the so-called EPD (empathic personality disorder) on the internet – some website which I can’t remember.
It is just a theory, of course, and it was interesting to read.
I strongly doubt an ACON could ever be ‘normal’, as in a balanced individual with SOME mild narcissistic traits and SOME mild emphatic traits.
Based on my personal experience, and the online forum I participate in, they tend to lean towards one extreme (E) or the other (N).
(Once again, this is MY perspective, MY opinion. I could be completely wrong. I could also change my mind in the future).
I am not sure how much of my personality is actually MINE and how much is a result of my parents’ influence.
Maybe I could have become a narcissist too?
I remember, when I was about 5 or 6, my sister and I would always play two games: the ‘beauty contest’ and ‘mother and daughter’. The beauty contest was fixed because MY doll had to win, ALL the time. End of discussion. I was quite bossy and inflexible back then.
Also, when we played ‘mother and daughter’ I can clearly recall manipulating my sister into doing whatever I wanted.
I remember this very vividly: I would tell my sister one of our two dolls was very bad, mean and causing the other one lots of problems, making her sad, taking her stuff away, blah, blah. She got so angry and actually broke the ‘bad doll’. I was sorry about having to throw the broken doll away, but I felt so powerful, thinking I could MAKE my sister do what I wanted to.
I would tell her lies. I would have her eat stuff that later made her vomit. Maybe this is normal between siblings? I just know that my attitude shifted at some point. It took a u-turn. My mother may have something to do with this?
Anyway, I don’t consider myself a ‘normal’, balanced, well-rounded individual but I don’t abuse, tell lies, manipulate, etc. and I am not a narcissist.
I used to have a bit of a temper…but work changed that.
And, needless to say, HG’s publications are helping me tremendously (12 books and counting…).
Hi Emp…ty for sharing your childhood memory. I dont think youre a narcissist bc of the fact you are self reflecting. Thats something narcissists have a difficult time doing and admitting when theyre wrong. You may have had many narc traits tho. I know i had narc traits but i also had empathy so i know im not a narcissist.
It sounds like normal sibling behaviour to me. My brother and i are 7 years apart and i remember trying to control him at times. I remember i had wanted his bedroom bc it was bigger so i told him my bedroom was magical 😂 it worked 😄 theres a difference between having narc traits and having npd.
I think too you cant go by childhood years alone bc children are narcissistic by nature and many grow out of that phase into more of a balance.
Ive asked myself is being an empath a hinderance? Yes and no. Yes if you have no boundaries in place to protect from being taken advantage of but no its a gift. I consider myself lucky to care about other people and empathise what they are going thru. What is a hinderance is the contagion empath situation where you allow other peoples situations to bleed into your life i think again thats boundaries that are not being implemented from within. Its ok to feel bad about something then let it go.
Hello Narc Affair
You stated
“What is a hinderance is the contagion empath situation where you allow other peoples situations to bleed into your life i think again thats boundaries that are not being implemented from within. Its ok to feel bad about something then let it go.”
Do you mean Contagion Empath or emotional contingency?
Hi narc affair,
Good to know I wasn’t the only one messing with their siblings’ mind!
Well, roles reversed soon anyway.
I have a few (mild) narcissistic traits but I am definitely not a narcissist – I checked the ‘Narcissist or Sociopath’ article and 90% of the character strands mentioned by HG definitely do not apply to me.
Anyway, this blog and HG’s writings have been an invaluable resource.
Really glad I stumbled upon his answers on Quora.
SuperXena, EmP and Narc affair: Thanks for your valuable insights. I affiliate with them.
In regards to the childhood experiences of children showing “narcissistic” like traits, or seeming selfishness, it isn’t Narcissism but Egocentrism in young children. That is a typical developmental stage of a world of only a “Me, myself and I” awareness that has not evolved to cognitively or socially include others yet.
why are commentators laughing at the reptile or alien option. come to Arizona. I have come across some narcissist who do claim to be a different being as such. I believe there is an energetic or metaphysical aspect to the Narcissist and empaths role with the world. On a physical level, I believe genetics and upbringing is what creates a narcissist, a borderline, and a codependent
Welcome to Arizona ANM
we seriously have our own breed here. don’t we lol
Dear Mr Tudor,
Looking at all the narcs in my life, they all appeared to have shocking childhoods, most were in strict or abusive upbringings.
The were all very professional in their careers and all were perfectionists and had talents like playing musical instruments and winning medals or excelled with their hands.
Not one had unconditional love and support from their parents and not one ever told me they loved their parents…. not one …😥
Excellent poll
Thank you.
Ps .. Mr Tudor, if you were my son, you would’ve a happy little chappy in a warm safe environment with unconditional love and a mum 24/7. ☺️
*been … oops
Aw, that’s sweet, Bubbles.
Can we hypnotize false memories into him? Wow, I’m sounding a little creepy… guess I’m always looking for an angle to cure it. Only half joking.
I told my son this , if you arr one of them , be like HG , if you are like him , you have my support 😊
I feel a meme in the creation there!
It all ties together.
Extreme separation from Source = “Evil”
(As Empaths , closeness to Oneness, awareness of us=them, empathy, compassion, = “Good”)
I chose one option only , the final one. Not safe to feel emotions, so inability to evolve to feel others emotions /empathy.
They evolved to protect the self.
That is extreme separation from Source, in a way, so therefore “evil” , but the word evil has stupid connotations so I don’t throw it around .
Your kind evolved differently. A functional evolution, in your case, a seemingly very dysfunctional evolution in the case of the victim, unemployed collapsed lesser, however lol
One of my beliefs regarding narcissist development is that they formed a type of panic/anxiety reaction to life as they subconsciously failed to connect up spiritually to life. In a way they transcended consciousness and see life as the abyss or dark hole that it is. Maybe a touch of genetics, and “brain wired wrongly”, a bit of childhood abuse to reinforce the ” life is a blank abyss”. Either way, its an existential crisis they never emerge from. Or simply they choose to be the way they are. Freewill is all we have.
Oh! “Freewill is all we have.” I just loved how you phrased it. Personally, I have never met a narc who did not fear death with disproportional uneasiness. I even heard a close relative state once “When I die, you will not get rid of me. I will find a way to stay here and torment you”. Now that IS a denial very much deserving of my respect!
HG- which top 3 would you pick? 🤡
How nice of you to ask Kathleen.
1. An individual who has evolved differently in order to survive.
2. Capable of brilliance.
3. A necessary evil.
If you read “The Problem of Pain” by CS Lewis, he points to “evil” as necessary , to encourage/force the evolution of “good”
I shall have a look at that W as soon as I get of this flaming wardrobe.
why “a necessary evil”? especially if it does not benefit you to promote the other spectrum of “good”.
Prey
I am currently pondering the conundrum that is psychopathy, sociopathy and narcissism and I have been wondering what purpose they serve humanity, as well. They may be a necessary evil connected to the survival of the fittest, most brilliant, strongest, innovative etc. Darwinism.
I would like to know your opinion about Number 3, HG.
Why do you think narcissists are a necessary evil? If human beings are social beings, what would be the contribution of evil to humanity and society?
Someone has to remove the wayward.
That is interesting, HG. I read The Psychopath Whisperer and thought: Why are psychopaths here/what purpose do they serve? To remove other psychopaths and intractable characters? Food for thought.
It is interesting how you see it, K. As far as I know, most targets are non-narcissists. Dexter Morgan only exists on TV.
Thank you, E.B. I always follow you too. It is a good way to see how we are all doing with our narc experiences/lives. I really like it.
HG’s polls are always fun and I imagine he included all those options based on what people have written. I thought my MMRN was possessed by damn Devil when he flashed me the Hatred! Exorcist came to mind when he pulled that crap.
When I was reading the book, many of the psychopath’s victims were drug traffickers, prostitutes and fellow inmates, which included narcs, sociopaths and psychopaths. If you ever watched the Sopranos, it is predominately narc killing narc, however, there are definitely innocent victims, too.
Trust me, I am still pondering the reasons why these personality types exist.
Hello K,
It was nice to hear from you again. Thank you for writing, you are very kind. I am sorry for my delay in replying. I have not forgotten it.
“I thought my MMRN was possessed by damn Devil when he flashed me the Hatred! Exorcist came to mind when he pulled that crap. ”
This is scary. You must have found yourself in a fight-or-flight situation and repeatedly. I hope it did not affect your health as well.
There are narcissists who are evil and sadistic and do not seem to have anything positive to offer to the world but there are also those who are more benign.
My Matrinarc used to tell me that I had the devil in my body when I was a child. She used to take me to church. She said she wanted the priest to take the devil out of my body but when she spoke to him, it was always about something else. She was just like many of the women in the small town where I live: cruel, vindictive, controlling and self-righteous. People I do not know what they are called and I have never spoken to in my life. Since a couple of Lesser Lieutenants moved out last year, the mob targeting me has reduced their bullying and harassing behaviour to about once a week (instead of doing it every day) but the abuse still increases during (school) holidays like right now. I feel tired.
I read a newspaper article about adult bullying. Targets of female bullies are 75% other women and that female bullies are more cruel to their female victims than to men. This validates my experience so far.
” …many of the psychopath’s victims were drug traffickers, prostitutes and fellow inmates, which included narcs, sociopaths and psychopaths. If you ever watched the Sopranos, it is predominately narc killing narc… ”
I have not watched The Sopranos before. It sounds very interesting.
I used to be interested in cases of parricide like the Menendez brothers. After the siblings came out of prison (this is another case) they have not killed anybody anymore but the narcissist sibling has not changed.
A friend of mine mentioned Dexter Morgan a long time ago. I watched videos on YouTube and I found them a bit boring. Dexter had some Rules just like HG. I wondered if the good doctors took this idea from this series.
My favourite series is still The Mentalist (Season 1 on DVD). It has helped me cope through a difficult time.
K
One of their charms in being without guilt and remorse and indiscriminate in their pursuit of fuel is that they will inevitably cannibalize some their own.
Narc Angel
They most certainly do cannibalize their own. There has been several local cases of narcs killing their narc wives, siblings, parents, or grandparents. Then off to jail he goes. It is a win-win!
Or there has to be darkness for there to be light?
“About time someone took over”, “Who, for instance?”, “A very good friend of mine. ME”.
(I have come to understand,) that people who are alcoholic are not able to take responsibility for themselves. I don’t understand that. And I don’t understand why people who have NPD don’t,, either.
Actually, HG, you are taking responsibility for yourself by educating people, although there’s alot of $ in it for you, unless you have a non-profit, but at least you are doing way more than anyone (any narc) I know.
I have compassion and empathy for you, but at a distance.
Warm regards,
Pamb
Alcoholics are unable to take responsibility without the full acceptance that they are alcoholic. Once that full recognition is made, a space opens up inside, that allows healing. They need to become conscious of their inability to be sober, with that, ironically, comes the ability to become sober
Yes. Well put.
A….what have we fallen for? I don’t understand what I have missed.
A demonic entity that entered the child when their soul fled due to severe abuse and mistreatment.
I didn’t choose “a reptile in human form”, but come to think of it some of them do look like lizards. Then of course the reptilian brain…I know this isn’t a scientific blog, but there was no option about prefontal/frontal cortex damage or deficient development, which has been found in violent criminals and sociopaths. Could that be the fertile terrain where then abuse, neglect or raising a golden child can develop into a personality disorder?
At first, I thought “none of the above” and then on further thought I adapted my own thoughts a little to choose as my top three:
– an emotional/energy vampire
– a person who has evolved differently in order to survive
– an unaware, emotionally stunted individual
I believe narcs (like sociopaths & psychopaths) are born with brains that are hard-wired to be a certain way. The blueprint is already there when it comes to their capacity for empathy, conscience, and emotional intelligence. Fundamentally, this “hard-wiring” can’t be changed.
The conditions of their upbringing and the social experiences they encounter as children further influence and develop their behaviour. These early experiences could be described as “soft-wiring” in terms of how it affects their minds and behaviour.
There is some limited scope, perhaps, for them to change their behaviour if they committed themselves to focus on trying to change their soft-wiring. However, then, their brains loop back into the hard-wiring, where there is no recognition at all that they are at fault because there is no conscience or empathy to enable them to care or be remorseful.
In that sense, I guess they do have what can be described as a reptilian brain, but the response in the poll of them being “reptiles in human form” was a bit too “way out” and I didn’t choose it.
I also think that as a society, humans in general have not yet evolved to a point where these different forms of human brains are accepted and understood enough to be considered part of the fabric that makes up the human species. So those who are at that end of the spectrum can more easily blend in and take advantage of the lack of awareness.
You make some good points WN.
Thank you HG.
Coming from a Greater with hundreds of interesting comments to read, I’m quite chuffed that you think so 🙂
You are welcome.
I think the reptile reference was obviously a half joke as is apparent in His (human) nature. It references one being cold blooded. And is so apt. I totally relate to such a reference.
Partially, albeit I have had repeated comments on her platforms which refer to my kind as lizards/reptiles/aliens/demonic entities/Jezebel spirits
I dont think the reptile reference is way out at all. They are chameleons who are able to mirror and adapt to the environment to survive under the radar unfound/unseen. They are effectively cold blooded snakes or lizards, predators if you may, when they choose to be. Parasitic even. And I say choose cos they have choice – they do everything in calculated intention. It is NOT “a necessary evil” in this regard because they have choice and they sure exercise it – they choose their array of victims all too carefully and well. It is however a necessary evil for them to gain fuel to function and survive and be “hosted” by the host (the empath) and to balance out the world of good and evil. If I interpreted that right.
I think the reptile reference was obviously a half joke as is apparent in His (human) nature. It references one being cold blooded. And is so apt. I totally relate to such a reference.
Because or cuz if u want to use slang not cos
I don’t believe the phrase, in its exact wording (a reptile appearing as a human) is realistic, nor is it very helpful in terms of gaining a greater understanding of how and why narcissism exists.
I’ve seen blogs where people endlessly discuss narcissists as being demons or spiritual vampires, or reptiles, and to me it just perpetuates the stereotype that they are somehow so different to the rest of the population that it’s impossible to relate to them at all. I think this is unrealistic and it’s time to move forward to a more insightful and down-to-earth approach.
They are human with a particular set of behaviours. To describe them as a different kind of animal is to lose focus from what humans actually are and how varied they can be.
I can see that it’s being done in a joking or sarcastic way, but to me, caling them reptiles in human form is reinforcing the stereotype that they are “other” and therefore to be feared. This mindset perpetuates the current general lack of awareness about how and why such people behave as they do.
I am not condoning their behaviour at all, but neither am I automatically assuming that ‘human’ and ‘humane’ mean the same thing.
Well put.
not sure I can agree with you 100%… Because narcissists are lacking in a few of the key characteristics which make us “human”. Empathy conscience remorse ….. this is the part of them that makes it really hard to forgive them or try to be a friend of theirs and support them. Seriously I get more affection and consistent behavior from my cat.
they’re just a sliver away from being very dangerous-That’s my opinion. It is fascinating..but i’m only comfortable saying this now that I’ve removed large parts of my emotional thinking regarding my ex. I am no contact since October 2017… 🤖
by the way Canada is beautiful -the cold parts of it are performing the service of helping keep the globe colder- plus – cool animals live up there a little.. love it…! Wide open spaces!
I find it weird how there is an energy transfer going on, so I think at some level narcissists are energy vampires.
An individual who has evolved differently in order to survive.
Performers who have chosen magic to garner the much needed attention that they believe is required for their existence.
Lessers: Street level performers and cons with a shell game and limited number of tricks designed to temporarily distract before quickly tipping their hand.
Mids: Magicians of the stage with a larger repertoire. Mostly sleight of hand with a few tricks up their sleeve and limited acts of illusion. They can entertain their audience over a longer period of time before ultimately boring them with repetition and inability to produce new material.
Greaters: Skilled Illusionists and Mentalists. Mesmerizing their captive audiences with performances and ability to defy logic, suspend belief, and always leave them wanting more.
Entertaining regardless their level of skill-but all ultimately ineffective denied an audience.
Who are you calling a mentalist NA?!
HG
Does Mentalist offend thee?
No.
Bravo, well done, and a round of applause, NA!!!
And let’s not forget their disappearing acts. Some better than others. I moved on, however, after I tired of being sawed in half.
Bravo, NA! As always, you nailed it.
Have you ever watched the CBS series named The Mentalist? Its main character, Patrick Jane, could be an Elite Greater as well. Fancy vests, very charismatic, handsome as the devil, highly skilled in manipulative devices…
Carol M
I stumbled upon a few episodes loooong ago but never followed it. What I remember most was that he was the first man with blonde hair that I could recall finding attractive to that point (not that I specifically prefer dark hair or have a type).
Fancy vests made me laugh (and also re-evaluate his attractiveness).
Carol, no offence but there is no such thing as a fancy vest..lol
Very well said.
Ooooh, that is awesome, Little Angel!:-)
HG Copperfield
I believe the narcissist is disordered from childhood trauma/childhood abuse and evolved in a way to protect themselves (much like people who develop multiple personalities do). Because of this, I have a very hard time ascribing the term “evil” to them, though I cognitively understand they commit bad/evil acts. My inability to think of my ex-BF as evil (and my empathy for him) is always the single biggest factor that puts my NC at risk.
The narcissist gave me one big clue when I was in the Formal Relationship with him…
– He once said: “I think I had ADD as a child. I drove my parents crazy. My Dad tried to break me. I would never let him break me. No matter what, he would not ever break me.”
When I gently asked him about this, he quickly took it back, saying it was “not a big deal.”
same here. he said he came out stronger and unaffected, emotionless, and that he is now “good as gold”. he told me he is no longer angry with the parent or blames her and that he has moved on from the childhood abuse – always being put down by his mother and being compared to. we know of course this is not true or else he wouldnt be what he still is. there is some research that shows maternal abuse is far more detrimental than paternal. if a mother screws up, the damage on the child is greater…
Mine praised his father, commented on his siblings several times, and did not mention his mother in 7 years. I did not ask because one of the things he taught me indirectly was if people do not voluntarily speak about a “normal/excpected” topic, it holds unpleasant memories for them, and if you bring up the topic/force them to speak or think about it, they will connect you as a person with that unpleasant feeling. And I agree that mistreatment by the mother seems to do more damage at least to men – in the 3 more intense acquaintances/friendships I had, mistreatment by or disappearance of the mother seemed to create a deep-seated, if unconscious belief in these men that women in general “owed” them something (that can never be given or fulfilled by one woman alone).
Prey
I agree with your point about maternal abuse. The ultimate betrayal.
Good point Caroline. I have a hard time ascribing evil to them as well even though from my empathic perspective their acts that are necessary for survival for them are evil to me. Interesting with the ADD, in the case of my ex it was ADHD. He’d been different since early childhood and drove his parents nuts. His father punished him harshly for that. Or at least that’s his story. He belongs to the generation that wasn’t diagnosed though, but he talked a lot about this; thinking he had ADHD. I’ve never met a person in my whole life that restless, easily bored and without impulse control so I always believed him. Now I’ve learned that those are also signs of psychopathy. Sometimes because of his lack of empathy, and he did sometimes know that it was a problem for him or at least that he’s different in an emotional sense, he identified strangely with autism and Asperger’s as well. We used to watch this Swedish/Danish production “The Bridge” (I think it’s been aired in lots of countries) and the female detective is portrayed as being autistic, probably Asperger’s. He always said he recognised himself in her. And I understand his point because he thought she lacked emotions and her brusque ways were similar to his; the only difference being that these people do have empathy; he hadn’t any at all or at least very low levels. And he acted the opposite of having problems with social interactions; he knew the rules; he knew how to play by them and he knew how to sneakily break them. But it’s intresting anyway how he tried to understand what he was. He never did mention psychopathy though..
That’s so interesting, Catherine. Hmmm…on what seems like ADD-type symptoms possibly being mistaken for psychopathy. It’s made me reflect. He for sure doesn’t have ADHD — he’s super contained and focused and not chatty or hyper in actions. He’s not even easily distracted, like those with ADD also are. But he is bored SO easily, and when he is, there is no telling what comes out of his mouth… it wasn’t so much impulsive as totally socially inappropriate! We were once at this fancy dinner, seated across from a couple who were virtual strangers, and after the guy was done talking, my wonderful boyfriend looked him dead in the eyes and dryly said: “Yes, let’s keep talking about the snow for another hour. That will be fascinating.”
I could have died!!
Ha ha.. Caroline.. I can see how you would almost die from remarks like that. Mine did the same. And more or less he couldn’t even wake up in the same city or the same country two days in a row. That’s how restless he was. Life with him was a constant journey from one place to the other. And when we arrived at our destination he changed his mind most of the time and wanted to go elsewhere. We ended up in Barcelona when going for groceries once and when I went with him to St Andrews to play golf he ended the trip prematurely and suddenly we were in Vienna although he complained about it feeling rather like going to Amsterdam instead. I must admit I fell in love with his impulsivity in the beginning; life with him was an adventure and I did learn to let go of my need for constant planning all the time, but in the end it was so tiresome. He couldn’t stay put in one place; he was bored all the time and I think his problems with alcohol arose from trying for the calming effect it might bring, but of course never did. I get stressed out just writing about it. But I don’t think he has ADHD, I think it’s worse than that..
Wow, that is “restless” personified. His lack of contentment sounds just awful. It makes me feel quite sad.
You’ve been through a lot, Catherine. You’ve seen a lot (travels) — AND you’ve seen a lot (with him). You’re a strong woman.
Thanks Caroline. So are you. Strong. It helps tremendously to know that you’re not alone in this kind of experience.
An individual who has evolved differently in order to survive.
I do believe it all goes back to childhood. I think there is a genetic component involved and also environmental influences play a big part in developing narcissism. The child could have been abused or too doted on, in my opinion lack of boundaries seem to play a part in both cases. For the abused child not being able to set boundaries himself (or someone else) towards the abuser and for the doted child there have not been set any boundaries by the caretaker. Either way the child didn’t feel safe or felt lost in some way and as part of self protection developed a disordered self, not knowing who or what it is.
The N I was involved with (Lower/Middle Mid Ranger) was obsessed with the movie Ex Machina. The film is about a young programmer who is selected to test world’s first human-level Artificial Intelligence, and he’s role in this project was to communicate with the AI to judge if it is genuinely capable of thought, consciousness, empathy and other human qualities. The AI was housed in the body of a beautiful robot girl.
The N often said that he was extremely inspired by this movie. When I wasn’t aware of he’s disorder I asked him if he saw himself as the young programmer, but he said he actually identified himself with the robot. After I discovered that he was a narc the movie got a whole new meaning to me…very interesting movie though.
I chose every single one except alien, reptile and a necessary evil bc it isnt necessary only in the maladaptive coping of a narcissist. Its a choice once you become an adult to see youre doing wrong and get help to change. If you dont its only you who is to blame for your wrong doing.
Ive seen narcissists referred to as possessed, aliens, reptilians from when the annunaki inhabited earth. Narcissists are humans but narcissism is a spectrum. The very end being a psychopath. I believe narcs are a product of their upbringing but also predisposed and possibly genetic. In a psychopaths case i feel its mostly genetic but abuse couldve played a part as well. Lower on the scale are narcissists i feel could possess some empathy but are more narcissistic than they are empathetic.
They are damaged people emotionally and were stunted at a young age. They learned coping skills that werent healthy.
Some narcissists are too far gone and are sadists and evil. In this case its hard to know if possibly they became a portal for possession. I dont know what i believe as far as possession goes. I do think its possible for some humans to be born evil and not be the result of a bad childhood or abuse. Each narcissist varies so drastically and so many factors contributed to their narcissism.
I do think some narcissists have the capacity to modify their behaviour and learn how to change their thoughts. Basically relearning and undoing what they grew up thinking was true.
Interesting poll HG. I would say a human being albeit a damaged one; someone who has evolved differently to be able to survive and who is a potent but quite often a destructive force from my limited perspective; but someone who is also capable of brilliance and outstanding achievement of course. We’re all human beings, we’ve been victimised in our formative years, but we’re different sides of the same coin; like night and day. We have different sets of realities and objectively, without the moral filter that the majority of us in our society uses, we just differ from one another without that necessarily being right or wrong. The problem for us empaths arises when we cross paths with you. Then you’re emotional vampires; you prey on us; you suck the life out of us and we need to learn to keep away from you.
I think narcs are broken people. I don’t know how they got that way, but probably a combination of nature and nurture. I read somewhere that the only thing separating a garden variety sociopath from a serial killer is upbringing. The brain is plastic so it’s possible to turn a normal-brained kid into a narc by belittling or worshiping them, and it’s possible to turn a narc-brained kid into something safe, if not altogether savory, by raising him well. While I have only experienced one narc, and I don’t know the cause, his mask does slip, he is occasionally vulnerable, and he has brief narc rages, which I understand to be panic attacks. There is a real human in there who is dealing with the same things that we all fear – death, love, anxiety, boredom, duty, ego. But I can’t get past the image of a brain that is missing the part where emotions, nuance and empathy should be. Because of this, I always feel like I am dealing with a five year old. For a long time I was confused about whether he had Asperger or NPD. I settled on the latter not because he told me so but because I realized that his behaviors are deliberate.
This is like, if children were to describe something. Because we are naive about things we can only imagine but haven’t experienced.
How do you view your mother in relation to this question Mr Tudor ? If I may ask .
She is in a category not on the poll – See you next Tuesday.
😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱
what category is that? do you fall somewhat in that same category? does the apple not fall far from the tree?
Oh I can be a complete cunt to people but that’s the beauty of doing as I want
Ha ha ha….
Your Majesty has worn the C* word…! How DH Lawrency… *humble subect falls even deeply in love*
Regarding the not avaliable categories, I would suggest another one which was not presented – human beings to be avoided at all costs.
It’s judicious use is highly effective.
I appreciate the clandestine way of expressing this thought.
Is it just me or do the British have a way with curse words that makes them seem less offensive when used in conversation? Is it the accent?
The rest of us use the same offensive words but it just comes off as completely vulgar.
I kid you not…I worked with a British lady (in a very blue collar job) and if she had a *way* with words…she was in a position of power and if you knew her well, you realized her use of the insult of “rotten twat”* was a term of endearment. But you had to know her well enough to know this and you needed to be on her ‘goodside.’ To be honest, she scared most people. And she only saved her most colourful curses for those she liked and respected.
And she had a great sense of humour;
so you could poke fun at her…and ‘earn’ a few curse words…but if she was actually angry at you or didn’t like you – wow, did you ever know!
For the record, she used to run a bar in Britain.
*see I just did it and it comes off utterly vulgar – and you can’t even hear my accent 🙂
Richard E Grant has people yelling “Monty you terrible cunt” at him nearly every day!
Ooh – twice in one day HG!
Careful, don’t overuse it 😉
One is a quotation so that doesn’t count.
Fair enough.
When faced with survival choices we can ‘choose’ (no free will -caveat) the inner-self that is grounded in responses to experience, or an outer persona that helps us to strategically achieve our aims; the mind and feelings or the outer body and appearance; individuality or solidarity. The self has many dimensions to it and we construct it, favouring some aspects over others.
I think npd is a survival adaptation that represses the true inner-self in favour of a social persona that they confuse with their inner-self – and their involuntarily, unconsciously repressed (set into a mental, behavioural pattern)—emotions, drive them to seek compensations for self-worth through social status.
They’re individuals who, on a fundamental level, cannot separate themselves from the world around them, and hence also can’t relate to others as separate individuals with their own subjective realities. As a result of their adaptation they might be highly skilled in some areas but lack internal depth, they may play a progressive or destructive influence in society at large, depending on the individual, but they are usually destructive to those who are close to them because of their innate selfishness and inflexibility. The condition is on a spectrum of human adaptations to surroundings: models of behaviour and value systems.
I actually find them fascinating because i also suffer from split-object relations, but made the very opposite adaptation, towards the inner-self.
Also, they’re winning with tigers blood! Their thoughts are real objects to them that construct the world, if they think it then the world is that way and there is no other way.
/iroll that’s very interesting, npd as coping/compensatory mechanism and survival is the key.
HG, I asked you whether narcissists really make a choice to be what they are/ act in the way they do. Does it depend on the school? How about middle mid rangers?
Thanks IL, I have answered above.
From the top, I selected options 9, 10, 11, 14, 15, and 16.
My cup runneth over with Narcs, both now and ever since I was a child. Friendships, romantic relationships, family, business colleagues, etc. Had the fortune of mostly dealing with Lessers. Couple Mid-Range. No Greaters that have revealed themselves (save for the lovely HG. Paid for a consultation. Worth it).
Now, just feels like going on safari: The Lesser Somatic fitness model, the Mid-Ranger Publisher of the local paper, etc.
Any concept of wounded person just appears to me as a term that no longer applies. It was a stepping stone in a transformation. And now it’s complete. No longer wounded. Not capable of being fixed or healed either.
I will say that I do believe that Narcs developed into a niche that works for them. Makes sense. Same thing happens in evolution of species.
I will say that I have no delusions about how much I am and will always be fascinated by and attracted to them.
Not demonic. Not alien. If anything, they’re the result of the most ugly conditions of pure humanity. And when I look at them, I see what we do to ourselves as a species.
Thank you Reckoning.
I thought I had experienced something unique, then I participated in your tolls, and found my answers to fit with the majority every single time. It’s good to know I’m not alone in having fallen for it. Thanks again for your work.
I wanted to be malicious but then I remembered my Dads childhood, his Mom was burnt alive in front of him. His childhood was absolutely horrible. I still can’t hate him considering his circumstances made him that way.
Same for my ex, he grew up in a war torn country like Afghanistan.
So I chose the evolved differently to survive option.
At times like these, I count my blessings. Growing up with a narc and then dating one aren’t even close to what these people have gone through.
I think what they all have in common is the inability to accept any form of actual or perceived criticism, and they would rather utterly destroy you than to accept a benign complaint. What differs is the degree they will go to in order to defend that fragile false self, with the spectrum ranging from silent sulking to roaring rage and violence. Not to mention all of the mind-fuckery that goes on at all levels.
These are not made of the same thing we are. Ever notice they are found in large numbers in military special ops forces? It’s because the arent limited by normal human empathetic constraints. They can carry out horrific tasks unaffected and can continue to function in horrific situations as long as they are given a sense of power
Lori, police, military and wait for this—- elementary school teachers test the same on psych scores!!! Control, control, they want power, they want ‘people’– even little people to obey them! That is scary stuff!
Hi Empress1,
That is chilling! Thank you for sharing that information.
When my son was in third grade, his teacher started a campaign to get him on Ritalin (with the school officials and me). I was concerned and confused, so I took him to his pediatrician who said, “Tell that teacher to learn how to teach boys. There is nothing wrong with him.”
My son’s father/my ex-husband made his only appearance at a parent/teacher conference. Unable to fit in those tiny chairs, he loomed over us and when she tried to push these drugs onto our son, his father bellowed, “Absolutely not!” and I never heard about it ever again.
Empress1
That just makes me so sick. I can’t stand those types of police mentalities that enjoy the fear others have of them. Same with teachers. I’m sure many teachers have instigated it even encouraged bullying in their classes. I’m sure many teachers are responsible for driving little children to commit suicide. Just like the nurses who kill their patients! All evil bastards that should be hung publically. I want to see the fear in their faces as the noose tightenes around their evil necks. Knowing they are about to die. There should be no less punishment for these types that do these deeds. Sorry that got a bit emotional.
Certainly empaths answered these questions!!!
I am very lucky to have had as many narcissists in my life as i have and not ended up in a worse place than i did.
I have landed on my feet so many times…if i were a cat im certain i’d be running on the last of my nine lives.
Nonetheless, what ive deduced reading HG’s articles is that a narcissist’s worst nightmare (confronting the nothing inside when it escapes from its fortress) is the only solution by which a narcissist might recover from their state of incapacitated intimacy. This is an intuitive thought, nothing more. There is no proof or example by which this statement can be given credit.
If this idea were to be employed, my belief is by accepting the “nothingness” as part of themselves it would be realized how much power it is given and it is nit as formidable as ut seems. Therefore this would show ability, strength, courage and tenacity to then accept emotion as part of who they are just as fearlessly.
Then again, we are all hard wired just a bit differently too arent we?
Interesting observations AES.
Thank you.
I picked first, an individual who has evolved differently in order to survive, thanks to the information HG has given us and my knowledge of my N’s early life.
Second an emotional/energy vampire, cause he sucked both of these out of me; several times I thought I was empty but he could always get more out of me.
3rd capable of brilliance and impressive achievement, it always amazed me how easy it seemed to me that he could convince people to do things against their own interest, traits or morals. And make them happy to do so. I would sometimes think, if he would just apply himself and use his talents for the good of many, instead of his own selfish wants….
Note to fellow empaths – I am NOT labelling anyone, these are my impressions based on social interactions and my dysfunctional family dynamics. And obviously I do not include the Boss in my analysis, I cherish too much my place at the Tudor court and cannot conceive an elabourated vision of his extended routine.
I do not beleive in the damaged/disordered/mentally ill approach. Being a strong beleiver of free will, I beleive narcs at some point make a choice to stay in the path they are.
Good caveats Carol.
HG, is this then true “I believe narcs at some point make a choice to stay in the path they are”?
If what is true IL?
I see the question, Carol made the assertion that a narcissist at some points make this choice of narcissism, and then Insatiable is asking if you experienced that choice at a time in your life? Did at anytime you make a conscious decision to be who you are?
Me, I think one is born the way of the other. If it was simply due to abuse then there would be many more others among us.
Thank you H.
No, it is not a choice from the Lesser or Mid Range because he or she does not know what they are. Even where a Mid Range recognises that his behaviour causes problems for other people, he still has to continue this way because the self-defence mechanism that is the narcissism causes it to continue. With Greater I would accept there is a degree of choice (we remain bound by the way we have to operate and also the satisfaction derived from operating this way, why stop when it works) and that degree of choice is what raises the potential of modification.
With regard to IL’s question, which I have answered elsewhere but no matter, I have learned that my narcissism was pre-ordained if you will but I do recall making a decision where I saw the wielding of power and what it achieved and I wanted that. I expand on this in the book Fury. Hitherto I viewed that as making a decision to be this way, but I know realise my narcissism was already there and taking shape and this “power grab” was just a manifestation of it. If you will, my narcissism caused me to believe that I had control by the apparent decision to operate – all it actually was, was a manifestation of my early awareness.
HG, with reference to “…that degree of choice is what raises the potential of modification.”
Modify into what? A Mid Ranger or lesser Greater, or even Normal?
Modification to being pro social more often.
I like that, “modification to being pro-social more often”. Is this your goal too, HG? If not, could it become at some point?
Of course your actions with this blog, the books, the talks etc. are pro-social in their effect, but is this your intention (or part of it) or just a coincidental by-product of you, well, not being pro-social? I hope that made sense.
It is being looked at, yes.
Thank you.
Carol M – you do not label but inevitably you chose to laud the narc of all narcs. Why… why are people just so drawn to providing more fuel and favour? Is it such a natural thing for empaths to do?
Hello Prey, how do you do? Indeed, I chose to worship the narc of all narcs. As I only speak for myself, I do not know whether it is natural for empaths or not, even though I agree it is, to say the least, unholy. The real question is: WHY do I exclude Mr Tudor from the general category? It is because he was the only one to symbolicly offer me a hand when I was drowning in my confusion of paranoia and self doubt. Is he (the nex – narcissistic ex) crazy or am I the insane one? All my friends are surprised I broke up with him, should I give him another chance? Is it normal for a person to act so entitled, is that a millennial thing maybe? Nex told me many times I was prone to overreacting, overthinking, doing unnecessary drama and focussing only on the bad things, perhaps he was right and I am going to die alone and be eaten by my cats?! So yes, maybe all narcs are destructive and unhealthy, however I cannot not to demonstrate gratitude for the seule figure who rescued me from the shadows and the valley of death; I am aware he did not do this out of kindness of his heart but the effect remains the very same. Also, the fuel we all provide him is merely tertiary, therefore, weak in effectiveness. If it keeps him busy moderating, approving and replying to comments rather than devaluing a fellow empath, so much the better! As your nickname suggests, I get you beleive in the power of recurring to a system of shared worshipping in the process of healing, so my personal choice should not surprise you so much. All love to you and please do not be bored by my fangirling! <3
Nexus-8.
An interesting and valid observation. Any reason why Nexus 8 and not Nexus 9?
I think the Nexus-9’s were built to not rebel. But ultimately, I said Nexus-8 because I saw the latest Blade Runner movie with my ex-narc. Afterwards, he said he wishes he was a Nexus-8. Ironically or not, that was our last date. That movie is mind-blowing to watch at a time when one is awakening to the realities of narcissism. There are so many layers to it.
Indeed. Do you think the Voight-Kampff test would flush out our kind?
My gut says no, it wouldn’t flush out a narcissist. You would know best. What do you think?
I did play a psychological visualization game with my ex once and it revealed that his ego was very small. At the time I didn’t make anything of it. Looking back, holy cow! That game revealed a lot!
It would flush out lower echelon, but not higher. Have you seen 2049?
if narcs mirror, then they are obviously replicants as the apt name implies. and because they are not typical humans, the kind devoid of typical emotions and human nature, they certainly seem like droids/bots. and will fail the Voight Kampff test obviously. or pass it with flying colours. as an act.
‘ An individual who has evolved differently in order to survive’.
Someone who lets his ego control him like a robot fueled by fear.
I chose: (Based on my interactions with a Middle Lesser Victim Narc)
1. An energy/emotional vampire – because his behavior is exhausting
2. A broken, pain-filled person – because I know he is miserable, he didn’t choose to be a narcissist and is unaware of what he is. None of his behavior is personal, it’s a pattern he will continue to repeat with IPSSs the rest of his life.
3. Capable of brilliance and impressive achievement – because in his younger days he was a brilliant musician played with bands, wrote and recorded songs. He no longer has the energy to do those things, although flashes of brilliance still come through when he picks up an instrument.
Thanks so much for this poll, HG…all of these and your articles help heal.
You are welcome.
I clicked a number of them but ultimately I’d say a narcissist is an emotionally stunted person. When that wounding or rage emerges, they’re the hurt child once again. The ‘real’ self is atrophied and only a false self exists in its place.
A person that is controlled by their instincts, who calculates their actions to adhere to them. Lacking the ability to fathom how their selfishness affects others.
I think that you’re kind was hurt as a child … in different ways … and there’s a void that can’t be filled …. it’s not my job in life to judge …. but as an empath it seems like it’s my job to try to fix the narcassist …. which I guess can’t be done
No need to guess PBW, it cannot.
So it cannot be fixed…but as brilliant as some of you are, it is beyond me why you cant choose to have better outcomes to your relationships. It makes little sense to me.
I know you’re right HG … but I have to try
Because fuel trumps everything, Katie, including intimate relationships. It makes them feel superior and strong. However, I just want to say that most narcs I know have excellent relationships with most people around them. They actually are, in appearance at least, more intelligent socially than many empaths I know, including myself. This is because they need people to survive, which, to me, is proof of how social humans are.
In my experience, the only relationships that the Narc I’ve been involved with has had success with are very superficial ones. (Work, casual acquaintances, etc.) Basically situations that require very little if him. It’s all for show. If it requires too much effort on his part it becomes “Work” and that is not something he’s willing to do a lot of, for anyone. As successful as he is in other areas it just befuddles me.
Thanks for responding
When It was all New to me and was still emotionally attached to every narc I’ve known I would say The Devil Incarnate . Now I would choose
A lost individual trying to negotiate their way through life .
As a silent Borderliner I’ve got a few similar traits . And starting to realise these disorders are just to conflicted , and how deep rooted the need for contrast is .
#AngelNSinner
Damaged children that have arrested development. Children in adult bodies and have no clue how to behave in a mature way, hence the tantrums and rages. Frustration that they are not like others, and that others don’t understand them as they see themselves (as being superior). My ex husband had tantrums that astounded me for so many years, these became rages which scared all of us, animals included. I do believe he was neglected as a child – that’s what made me fall for him – I wanted to fix him with my love – WHAT A lesson I learnt. Twenty years later, I finally can admit that I was abused by this man. However I do at times feel dreadfully sorry for him – I cannot imagine living with this disorder – just surviving through human form and not ever living – it must be torture (from my perspective anyway)
I think that narcissists have thought processes that are not in the spectrum of social norms. They are wired different.
Sometimes I wonder if there is some sort of evolutionary process taking place in the brains of the human race. Perhaps it is a new type survival mechanism.
For sure there are many others that walk among us, maybe they are the new us.
I respectfully disagree. With the increase in autism and the emotional solar plexus evolving but not yet fully evolved, just as the larynx evolved so homo sapiens could make sounds and form language, I think the evolved species will communicate telepathically. The Narc is a result, in my humble opinion, of the descent of the tribe to the collective status quo materialistic ‘parent’ not nurturing and providing for their offspring.
i hope so. i am still trying to regain my faith in mankind. none the less they suck from our perspective, we can agree on that for sure.
Haha this is my fav poll yet 😂 back later to answer!
You love yourself some of that there poll action NA.
🤔😄
Yee haw!
I was reading through the comments and knew that you would not be able to resist taking the opportunity to make that comment 😉
Now you’re getting interesting…
K
Do you remember a cartoon with two mischievous Siamese cats…and they sing…” we are Siamese if you pleaseeeee…. “we are Siamese if you don’t please”….lol …..they were so bad lol but so cute! It was a cartoon. Also rikki tikky tavvi sounds familiar to and I remember a cobra sneak that would hypnotize with his eyes lol….cartoon as well…loved that cobra. So as a child we did learn more about narcissism through cartoon characters. How about Tom and Jerry. Or that poor tweety bird lol. Those cartoons were so funny. Ok I’ve gone way over board with this gonna end it now.
Realitysetsin
I think you meant to say:
Th…th…thats all folks!!!!
“An individual who has evolved differently in order to survive.”
I agree with psychologist Alice Miller and her theory that narcissism is a result of (early) childhood abuse.
I do not believe that people with a NPD are damaged from birth.
Ditto everything E. B. wrote.
Thank you, K. 🙂 How are you?
Hello E.B.! Everything is splendid, thank you. And you?
Hi K,
Glad to know you are doing great! 🙂 I always read your comments.
The answers are interesting. I thought some of them were included just for fun but the results speak for themselves 😉
A reptile appearing as a human – 27 Votes! What do they mean?? A narcissist as Lyle The Crocodile incarnate?
E.B.
Lyle The Crocodile’s evil twin! Or Nag and Nagaina, the two evil cobra snakes in Rikki-Tikki-Tavi.
Their a person with a disorder personality period
They are (not their). And it’s personality disorder. That was rather disordered. Just put a full-stop really. Why spell out punctuation.
Oh forgive me wise one my keyboard is sticking making it nearly impossible to type replies it was supposed to say they are disordered personalities not they are personality disorders that would be incorrect there is such a thing as a disordered personality I just didn’t type the end at the end and u cannot edit comments on here secondly the word period was intentional not a form of punction as in they are disordered personalities period end of discussion
Ugotit
Anyone on here has got bigger problems than spelling and grammar so just ignore their sanctimonious behaviour regarding how others express themselves to the best of their ability in both language and subject to spellcheck.
Touche lol I guess that means I shouldn’t tell her that in her other comments she neglected to put spaces after her periods and didn’t begin her sentences with a capital letter. I’m off to clean the blackboard erasers now as my punishment
I mean I did not type the ed at the end of disorder noticed it but had no way to edit
They are a person with a disordered personality period.
I have just looked up ‘sanctimonious’.
Good word.
Hmmm…says the person who doesn’t punctuate and rants away. I’m not santimonious, nor perfect, but thank you for thinking I am morally superior. It’s just so hard on the eyes reading comments that flow without form. Right. On to our bigger problems. 😉
Prey
We can see how grasping onto punctuation and spelling would be important to you given your current lack of manners and empathy. Pity that your superiority in communication failed to impress your Narc and you ended up here with the rest of us. We get that you are angry about that, but we did not cause you to be here, so maybe audit your own posts until your anger subsides.
Respectfully, there is such a thing as personality disorders. It’s so painful on the eyes and brain to read your unintelligent comments.
You don’t want to piss NarcAngel off. I REPEAT. You do. Not. Want. To. Piss. NarcAngel. Off. Ha.
P.S. Is punctuation correct?
P.P.S. Sorry I couldn’t resist (and no offence Prey, I like jokes).
Emp
She doesnt piss me off personally. I just dont think she should be attacking others over their way of expression when its hard enough for some to get the courage up to speak out in the first place. What next? People whos first language is not English? Shes angry-time will tell if thats all.
Narcangel your a better person than me she did piss me off I replied to her comments with a lot of vulgarity and profanity hg in his infinite wisdom decided not to publish my remarks still a little disappointed but I should have known they wouldn’t pass the rules of the group oh well
Indeed, you had made your point and the additional ones were just ad hominem so didn’t make it through. You are not on the naughty step though.
Narc Angel
Time definitely has a way of showing things around here.
How have you been?
What I think you kind are…. I think you guys/gals are abused sad little kids in grown up bodies! You destroy others to get what you want just like a child throwing a fit!
They look like human beings , but with a different DNA . Pragmatic , cold , luck of emotional empathy . They can do a great job in times of crisis , because fearless , but devastated others for their purposes , I think they know too well what they do to people around them . They are born like that , in my experience , there was not child abuse . Thank you HG
Do you mean that the abuse did not have an impact on the formation of the narcissist?
Hi HG , yes I mean that . I have two ex partners and my son . I know one of my ex since we were teens , no abuse . My son no abuse . My first ex no abuse . And many others friends , etc none of them have been abuse . I give you an example , the concentration camps ( world war 2 ) if is settle by abuse , all surviving children must had become narcissist , we have no information about that .
It is a different personality structure , with lack of certain positive emotions and a good deal of practical skills .
In my experience , studies , talking to specialists in three different countries is genetic .
My son was different from day one . Intense , charming , fearless
I respectfully disagree. I do not believe ‘they’re born that way.’ Conditioning, trauma, basic needs not met in childhood. Only my himble opinion. Thanks for your share.
I too dont agree there isnt any childhood trauma. something must have had to have happened for that switch to turn on – neurologically child abuse has deep effects on the developing brain wiring. Anyway, did you know that Neglect is also one big form of child abuse? It doesnt have to be the physical kind. In fact its the emotional and quiet abuses that run deeper scars and are silent “killers” so to speak. they kill the soul of the child. Narcs are definitely the product of some deep set trauma in childhood.
Some of the options made me lol!
I would suggest a flawed and limited individual. They walk a fixed path – they can on;y react/behave in a certain way. Basically a robot unable to break free from its programming.