The Dozen of Dismay



You are people of emotion. Not only do you experience a wide range of emotions, both good and bad, you experience emotion frequently. Your emotional output is heightened, intense and superior to that of “normal” people. You allow emotions to govern you, you are very much in touch with them and you will struggle to keep them under control, masked and hidden. These qualities which apply to the empath, super empath and co-dependent in increasing amounts make you the ideal targets for us. This is for two reasons. The first, naturally, is because your copious emotional output amounts to delicious and potent fuel for us. Our lifeblood. You are necessary to sustain our existence for it is through you that we are able to gain a sense of existence, your fuel powering what we are, what we wish to portray and that which we wish to banish. Fuel is the most important factor, but it is not the sole factor. The second reason why we require such emotional individuals to connect with (and especially in the role as intimate partner primary source) is that your emotional condition allows us to exert control over you. The exertion of control allows us to maintain our sense of superiority. This superiority allows us to paralyse you and keep you in this emotional state. Thus the cycle continues until such time as the emotional output drops below that level which is acceptable to us. By ensuring that you remain emotional, we prevent you from seeing the reality of what is happening to you. We ensure that your decision making is not borne of cool, hard logic. You are prevented from moving forward. You are prevented from escaping us. This is why so much of our manipulative behaviour is focused on provoking emotional responses from you. For fuel and for control. We must control our environment if we are to exist and this means controlling our appliances, including you as primary source.

As with so much of the narcissistic entanglement, the preservation of an emotional state is achieved through steps which we take but also as a consequence of traits which are particularly evident in your kind, as compared to normal people. These actions and traits combine through our daily interactions. They permeate everything that we say and do. Our manipulation relies on the existence of these items in order to maximise their effect and keep you in an emotional state. These actions and traits exist in the entanglement between my kind and your kind so that the dance continues, the hold is maintained and the emotion pours forth. We look to apply these actions in all our manipulations. We look to capitalise on these traits in you. Together there is an effective combination which ultimately creates your dismay and thus the emotional state we crave in you. There are twelve of these actions and traits; six from us and six from you.

  1. Generalising. We use this to maintain our superiority and belittle you. By generalising we make it sound as if we are the ones who can do no wrong and you are the ones who are always in the wrong. Thus we will make comments such as: –

“You never tell me that you love me.”

“I always am the one who has to sort things out.”

“Everybody thinks that you are horrible to me.”

“You never let me do what you want.”

Such broad brush and wide-ranging allegations are issued with total conviction in order to have considerable effect on you.

  1. Future Prediction. You are apt to base what you think the future should be based on what has happened already. This invariably means that because you have experienced the joy and wonder of the golden period that you expect that the relationship should continue in a similar vein in the future and thus you have a raised (and ultimately unrealistic) expectation by placing your hopes and decisions on the past rather than the present.
  2. Past Transgressions. We revel in raking up the past about you in order to suggest that you have done something wrong. If you have committed some wrong in the past (whether it is minor or major in nature) we are always able to remember it and we will keep digging it up. We never bury anything dead. We will also invent past transgressions which we perceive you to have committed, after all, you are not doing what we want, you are no longer idealised and therefore you must have done something wrong, yes? These inventions will be vague and amorphous in nature.
  3. Black and White Thinking. A dizzying and disorientating response to the perceived criticism which you hurl at us repeatedly so that you will be hero one moment, then zero the next. We do not operate in the grey when it comes to our view of you and others. You are either white or black. Then white again. Before becoming black once more. Often in the space of minutes.
  4. Closed Mind. We operate with a closed mind. We know best. We know the right things to do. We do not listen to anybody, least of all you, because you are a traitor, a moron and a fool. This prevents us from dealing with your challenges and heads off any sensible and credible suggestions you may happen to make about a situation which might undermine our sense of superiority
  5. Catastrophic Thinking. You engage in this as a consequence of an inherent nature to be like this but we engender and cultivate it through our conditioning of you. Since our responses when devaluing you are disproportionate (from your perspective) you then become used to the fact that when something goes wrong, it will go very wrong indeed. This causes you to always assume the worst which increases your anxiety and emotional responses.
  6. Irrational Fear. Again as a consequence of the mind games that we play with you, you find yourself second-guessing, questioning and obsessing over everything that is said and done which result in your acquiring an irrational fear. You will find something to worry about in the slightest remark or expression. Once upon a time you will never have done so, but your entanglement with us causes this to happen and with it the emotion flows.
  7. Projection. We project repeatedly by accusing you of doing the very things which we are guilty of ourselves. This is an instinctive response by us and is not only a form of defence but it also causes you to be put on the back foot as you seek to justify your own behaviour and find yourself bewildered to be accused of the act yourselves. Your response is one of astonishment, amazement, upset and annoyance. All good for the emotional quota.
  8. Blame-shifting. Another stock behaviour of our kind borne out of our need to avoid culpability for anything, which accords with our sense of entitlement. Thus it is always somebody else’s fault. Usually yours. This allows us to castigate you and causes you to react in a similar way to when we project.
  9. Never Looking Back. We are too busy driving forward to contemplate our navels and mull over events. We do not operate in this manner, but you do. Your propensity to reflect, consider and assess means that you dwell on matters for too far long and in so doing you paralyse yourselves.
  10. Mea Culpa. Not only do we blame you for everything you also engage in blaming yourself. You need to find answers to why things happen and if we are blame-shifting and rejection any suggestion that it is down to us, you then have a habit of accepting that you must be at fault somehow. It gets worse however. You do not just shrug and accept you are to blame, but you beat yourselves up trying to figure out what it is, spending time and energy working out why you are at fault.
  11. The Fixer. Your desire to fix everything, to heal and make good, means that you cannot walk away readily from situation where you would do well to do so. Instead you remain in the firing lane, in the furnace, in the midst of battle as the manipulations continue and with it the increased emotion that follows.


A dozen reasons. Six from us. Six from you. Twelve acts and conditions which result in your continued emotional state.

55 thoughts on “The Dozen of Dismay

  1. LYNN says:

    succinct HG

  2. Narc Angel says:

    No. As a child I was not labelled difficult. I was very quiet and kept to myself. I heard myself described by those outside my family as smart, responsible, “beyond my years” and an “old soul”. Trusted with everyones children, money, and secrets. But it was also known that I would refuse to back down from a bully or bow to authority. In my teens I was labelled as the strange one. Quiet and funny but dont cross her and best left alone. When I did get in trouble (usually for fighting or defying authority) I could tell that the adults knew I had to have been provoked and I was always let off.

    1. EmP says:


      Thanks for sharing. I don’t mean to do pop-psychology but it looks like you internalised the parental figure. Reversal of roles is quite common with narcissistic parents from what I read. And problems with authority figures, once again, relate to problems with parental figures. I used to be terrified of policemen, for example. Funny because I didn’t have a real reason to worry.

      We truly are creatures of the past – as in past events have ‘shaped’ us a certain way.

      On a different note, I bought a notice board today and I will be putting a bunch of Post-its with HG’s key statements on it (the ones that resonate with me the most). There are quite a few things I just cannot afford to forget.
      For my own sanity.

      Looking forward to the ‘HG Audio Programme’ I can listen to on a loop while asleep.
      “Apply cool, hard logic…..Do not pander to the narcissist…..Arguments are never resolved…..Fuel is everything” etc, etc.

  3. gabbanzobean says:

    HG, I have a question regarding #6….the catastrophic thinking. Doesn’t the narc often engage in this too? My MRN frequently acted like this. It kind of was an extension of his paranoid nature at times. Was this done as part of manipulation? Or a side effect of his disorder? Or both?

    1. Challenge Fuel says:

      Dammit why does my screen name keep changing? Word Press go home, you’re drunk!!!!

      1. Quasi says:

        Hi challenge fuel,

        Catastrophising as a negative thought pattern is quite literally as it sounds, a thought process of –

        “ oh my god if I go outside the sky is going to fall slap bang on my head, then a bus will run me over and then umpa lumpas will chuck me down the bad nut hatch/shoot”

        ( a very embellished statement for example purposes, although I have heard the umpa lumpa one!)

        That does not come across in the information you have given.
        Object constancy ( black and white thinking) is basically the inability to see the person as a whole, the good and bad, or remembering that there was any good qualities when the opinion of The person changes to a negative perspective. This may have been the case at times, but it seems like a very rapid timescale (10 mins) to switch between the two.. I would suggest only a narcissist can advise the likelihood of this.

        He may have a level of underlying anxiety regarding maintaining the facade as he states that he needs to stay cool, and not wanting anyone to witness him losing his cool. This may be a general worry for him through evidence that he has, of previously experiencing consequences of losing his cool / cracking the facade.

        To be honest it sounds more like a real difficulty in emotional regulation. From what you have written he appeared hyper reactive to your responses. If you went off his script he didn’t like it, and he reacted before he could process it to judge how he could respond. Realising he had potentially cocked up he apologised. Your analogy of the shower is quite accurate, it seems to be an autopilot reaction to a stimulus “ ah that’s cold”.

        Also the whole blow hot and cold with an agressive undertone manipulation, could be the case to mess with your head, and get you questioning wtf did i do? What just happened?…

        But to me it appears to be more poor emotional regulation, hyper reactive to stimulus.

        shit who knows …..

        That is just my guess/ opinion based on information you have given… but a clinical psychiatrist I am not ! X

        1. Quasi,
          Thank you for the reply. I understand what you mean. I guess I attributed it to the similar “black/white” description meaning all good or all bad. As in his emotional reaction would either be positive and happy OR negative (anxious and freaking out), etc.

          He definitely catastrophises all the time though.

    2. HG Tudor says:

      Manipulation for the purpose of Pity Play and blame shifting.

    3. Quasi says:

      Hi challenge fuel, to add another opinion to the mix, your narcissist may have struggled with anxiety alongside the NPD, I don’t believe its unheard of.. I would imagine that the stress of maintaining a facade, of keeping up with the lies, and the status levels of the people in your life may be difficult for a mid ranger (cognitively) to manage. I am led to believe that they experience a reality gap more frequently, falling short of expectations, this is also a precipitating factor / trigger in anxiety.
      The person that I was intreracting with definitely had anxiety also, I observed panic attack’s that were not an elaborate display of acting as you may expect in a pity play, but very subtle and real..
      catastrophising is a very common negative thought pattern for people suffering with anxiety. And if we are honest for a mid ranger if he does not get what he wants it is a catastrophe and he resorts to a toddler tantrum/ sulk.

      1. Challenge Fuel says:

        That is very interesting. I often wondered if my MRN had an anxiety problem…if he did he hid it well. He was rigid in keeping up appearances and he often said “I never lose my cool unless I am alone in private, I must never let anyone else see”.

        I read some of the material HG wrote about the “black and white” … aka: you are a good person and now you are a bad person. Now you are back to good and now you are bad again, etc.

        He tended to shift back and forth like that a lot with many things. I would email him about something and if it upset him he would go off the rails. He did not attack me personally per se but he would get defensive and freak out over the littlest things at times. And then, 10 minutes later he would go back to being Mr. Calm, Cool and Collected by stating “I am relaxed now, I am sorry I lost my shit like that”. It reminded me of back in the day when someone would be in the shower while someone else would flush the toilet and the toilet flushing caused the shower water to become freezing cold for like 30 seconds before reverting back to warm again.

        That was how his “anxiety” tended to manifest. He’d be “OMG” and then “Okay I am good”.

        So weird. Thank you for sharing, I found your example to be interesting.

  4. /iroll says:

    “This superiority allows us to paralyse you”

    = abuse triggers paralysis via the freezing mechanism in the limbic brain.

    We are dragged into a primal emotional state triggered by a survival situation created by you – we need to get to a higher emotional state.

    You are also emotional, but you only experience primal emotions and lack complex emotional processing and emotional empathy.

    1. sarabella says:

      Makes sense. Narc mother acted so damn superior all of the time and I would just scream for her to act normal and aproachable. And then just calm up in frustration.

  5. Merripen says:

    These actions and traits really are what we both bring to the table. I recognize each of them and can apply them to countless memories and recollections from my time with the narcissist. They lay neatly over the hot mess of those tumultuous years, just like a template, though it certainly didn’t appear that way to me at the time. It keeps coming back to that fatal blind spot, doesn’t it? If I’d only had such illumination back then. I would have scraped him off my plate like burnt beans.

  6. Challenge Fuel says:

    Oh how lovely, he did #8 frequently while accusing me of #6!!!! He then said that it was a page he was taking from my book (The catastrophic thinking as mentioned in #6)….

    “ I always come to assume the worst. Just like you. That’s a page I’ve been taking from your book”

    Eerily accurate as usual HG.

    Saint Piano!

  7. Quasi says:

    There are a few negative thought patterns taught within the CBT approach for anxiety management in there ! Catastrophising, generalising, predicting the future.
    Alongside object constancy and general blame shifting, would anxiety / fear be a motivating factor for narcissists? Or will it be more of the omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence god like state of mind that motivates the actions or the narcissist?
    I am genuinely interested to know peoples thoughts on this…

  8. Sharon Marinucci says:


    1. Empress1 says:

      Sharon- your caps lock were on the entire message- please stop cyber yelling at us……I am sure you did not mean it however not easy on the eyes to read in all caps!

      1. Quasi says:

        Cyber yelling made me chuckle.


  9. Julie says:

    The second reason why we require such emotional individuals to connect with (and especially in the role as intimate partner primary source) is that your emotional condition allows us to exert control over you. The exertion of control allows us to maintain our sense of superiority. This superiority allows us to paralyse you and keep you in this emotional state. Thus the cycle continues until such time as the emotional output drops below that level which is acceptable to us.

    HG…. Does a narc ever go too far and then realise it when the source starts to fight back? As in not being all weepy and forlorn but instead gets angry and mouthy and vile? Do they ever overstep and then think to themselves oops?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      No, because it is never our fault.

    2. sarabella says:

      But you do shift strategy, don’t you HG?

      When I saw the narc, he triangulated me with some story of what he had been doing with some woman. He made some comment about “mistakes he made there”. In such a way, that he seemed to be processing how to control for that mistake better in the future. And you wrote about a Greater managing and controling a situation to prevent the empath from going Super Nova. So while its not a mistake as an empath would interpret mistakes in relationships (and start navel gazing), your mistakes are weaknesses in exerting control and you use them as signals to shift your manipulations… no?

      And yeah Julie.. your first paragraph makes sense. So much sense when I think of how I felt my effed up narc mother would pick fights with me just to get me emotionally reactive. I sensed she was always doing that, but she had rigged it well enough to never make it seem like she was. It just left me bitter and angry at her.

      1. Julie says:

        Sarabella.. my mother is a raging narc. I haven’t had any type of contact with her years. Its true they get worse with aging. My sister is the only one who has anything to do with her. I stay clear of my sister also because shes a flying monkey and aint noone got time for that either lol

        1. sarabella says:

          Growing up, I thought all mothers used some of their kids to gang up on the others.

          1. Julie says:

            My mother still tries to gang up (eyeroll) NC is the best thing I ever did with that woman. The stories I could tell !

  10. EmP says:

    I need to be reminded of all this. On a regular basis. And to be honest it makes me both sick and upset.
    What prevented me from becoming a narcissist, made me the ideal prey.

    Interesting theory I read in a book: the child of a narcissistic parent who learns how to please them, to adapt and always give them what they want (in order to instinctively protect himself/herself) becomes a codependent, loses his/her sense of self BUT is spared the worst part of the abuse which, in turn, is inflicted upon the child who has a stronger personality, does not conform and therefore does not meet the narcissistic parent’s expectations – later becoming a narcissist himself/herself.
    The first child will compulsively repeat the trauma through victimisation; the second one will repeat it through aggression.

    1. NarcAngel says:

      That is interesting. I can relate to it in being the stronger personality in the family but feel I gave up just enough to protect us all and not to become subsumed or codependent. Where I am often viewed as aggressive, my perception is that I exercise vigilance and use aggression only to prevent a potential situation, keep it contained, or to defuse the threat. I do not look to harm.

      1. EmP says:

        Hi NarcAngel,

        It looks like you learned NOT TO TRUST and you took over the role of the parent to protect your siblings.

        Your poor little self needed protection and was forced to become ‘the protector’.

        We all coped the best we could I guess, each one using a different strategy.

        For me it was morphing into whatever my psychopathic mother wanted me to be, adjusting to every f-ing mood swing and learning to placate, please, etc.

        On the bright side, I learned how to effectively deal with very difficult people. I think I could have easily become a hostage negotiator.

        You probably developed a tough skin. The strengh of character needed to handle crises, emergencies, confrontations, etc.

        A personal question (feel free not to answer of course): were you labeled as a ‘difficult child’?

      2. Empress1 says:

        People are pretty upset with me now- I am pushing back against them- saying , ” that is aggressive behaviour, that is passive aggressive behaviour and/or that is narcissist behaviour and I will not allow it”…… They do not like it– I am now saying– “Say what you want-= say what you do not like— but I will not tolerate sulking, pouting cutting me down… if you do like my NEW behaviour then you are free to not have contact with me”— THEY do not like it!

    2. Anonymous says:

      Not always EmP. Empaths are born empaths. Just saying . . . .

      1. EmP says:

        Hi Anonymous

        As HG says, it is a combination of genetic predisposition and environmental influences.

        The ‘empathic’ child was probably born with a skillset that allowed him/her to better sense and adjust to the narcissistic parent’s needs and expectations.

      2. Anonymous says:

        EmP, hi. Then I’m going to disagree with HG on the environmental aspect. From experience, both my children are empaths. I looked into their eyes when they opened them for the first time and I knew they had been born with the gift. That’s my experience . . . I know it is complex . . . now they are adults and empathic as we come!

      3. Quasi says:

        I can only enter the discussion from a basis of a level of training / self directed learning that I have completed on the subject. But I think there is a misunderstanding with the empath spectrum.
        Everyone is born with a genetic predisposition of sensitivity on a scale. So empathic people are born as they are.
        When the environmental contributions come into play re over validation or invalidation / neglect/ abuse. This shapes the development of personality traits, core belief structures, coping mechanisms. So a child can enter a state of arrested development, and the way in which they learn to cope with what is happening in their world, and the lack of positive attachments to care givers, in turn shapes them. I believe the level of sensitivity/ empathy inherently in the child may be a deciding force in the movement on the scale to empath as a co-dependent and also move towards NPD.
        In some instances there is also reference to many other factors, other positive influences in ther life, a grandparent that shows care and affection for example.. this may reinforce a resilience and guide development and movement in The scale.

        On a personal note I feel that I am a highly sensitive empathic person and I am incredibly fortunate to of been taught a very positive construct of love, with secure attachments to both my parents, no issues with neglect or abuse, with balanced validation. So no environmental factors dictating/ shaping my empathy.

        The main wounding which you could say made me vulnerable was extensive bullying from my peers – more identifiable from age 8-16. So self esteem main issue for vulnerability.

        I hope this is helpful, again only one opinion and individual perspective. X

      4. Windstorm says:

        I agree with you in that you can see the empath or narcissist in babies almost from birth. I have noticed that in my children and grandchildren. However, our environment does shape us. You can train children to respond to situations in a more empathetic or a more narcissistic way. Maybe that’s because so few people are totally at one end of the spectrum. Most people have some traits of both. Our environment shapes us by strengthening some traits over others. And even what may seem to be the same environment- like a family home – is still different at any point in time for each child, depending on their age and birth order.

        Makes it virtually impossible to predict or explain how each of us will turn out – so many arrangements of traits, different environments and possible responses.

      5. Mary says:

        Challenge Fuel:

        You said, “I felt like his entire body had this magnetic force and mine did as well. Like I needed to just merge with him in every way.”

        THIS!!! I experienced an emotional/mental draw toward my online narc. The one time we met in person, he knew I was nervous about sitting in his car, and he wanted me to feel safe. So, I was the one who leaned in for a kiss. I felt like I had zero control, and it was exactly like you said, a compulsion to MERGE in every way possible. Once I did kiss him, it quickly became more passionate, more hungry. He looked at me like he was going to DEVOUR me. And I wanted him to! I so wanted him to. I just thank God every day that I killed the mood that day and nothing major happened, because I do not know what he was capable of if I’d gotten a hotel room with him and been completely alone. He’s the one that would talk about forcing me to do things in fantasy, and then say shit like “You’re agreeing to this if you meet me again.” (And when I would ask him why he felt the need to say that, he’d say I’m being too sensitive because of my assault history.)

      6. Challenge Fuel says:

        “Once I did kiss him, it quickly became more passionate, more hungry. He looked at me like he was going to DEVOUR me. And I wanted him to! I so wanted him to. I just thank God every day that I killed the mood that day and nothing major happened, because”

        Mary….pretty much this above EXCEPT that the mood was NOT killed. For us it went there. It was passionately hungry and totally insane. Primal even. Like some crazy shit out of a movie. I had never felt such an intense primal attraction in my entire life. I often joke it was like he had some kind of spell over me. My mind and my body were drawn to him. He was intoxicating. The withdrawal was awful though. He would ignore and ghost me for weeks afterwards which hurt. The emotional and sexual bond I had with him…the memories from it still stop me in my tracks and take my breath. It was like each of us was some giant magnetic force each and every time.


      7. Mary says:

        Challenge Fuel:

        Intoxicating is the word I will forever use to describe my narc’s kiss and touch too! Just being in his presence was a high. It’s such an amazing feeling, and I can imagine how intense the hurt was in your case when you did merge and shared such an otherworldly experience, only to have him pull the earth out from under you every time he would ghost.

        HG: Is the primal desire we feel for our narcs just based on the addiction they create to them? Or do you think on some level that we as their lovers/empaths/victims SENSE that they are predators and we are prey? Because I think I sensed it, and when he was kissing me, I wanted to be consumed and belong to him. Or maybe that’s just my particular submissive streak? LOL

        1. HG Tudor says:

          That would be your submissive streak.

        2. Shelf Fuel says:

          “I can imagine how intense the hurt was in your case when you did merge and shared such an otherworldly experience, only to have him pull the earth out from under you every time he would ghost.”

          Yup, pretty much this!!!! It was maddening. I kind of felt the opposite. I wanted him to consume me but I also wanted him to want to be consumed too. He wanted ME to boss him around. I often wonder if he meant boss him in a wicked or kinky kind of way. If that was what he hoped for my demands were pretty tame then. My “bossing” was pretty much silly now that I look back on it. I said stuff like “pick me up and carry me to the bed” and “grab and pull my hair while you kiss me” … stuff like that. I even became sarcastic at one random moment and said “Kiss me while standing on one foot”. That was the extent of my bossing.

          Good grief I miss the intimacy with him. He would just stare at me and smile and I’d be a puddle of goo (literally).

      8. Mary says:

        Thank you for clarifying about the submissive streak, HG.

    3. Mary says:

      Two side of the same coin! That explains why narcs and empaths attract each other, recreating their family of origin

      1. gabbanzobean says:

        Mary, I could not agree with this more. The attraction was/is insane. Attraction on every level. Mentally (we would finish each other’s sentences), emotionally (I would be shaking and he’d hug me and I would instantly feel soothed by his voice and words) and even physically (I would interrupt him while he would be talking just to kiss him). It was quite ridiculous. I felt like his entire body had this magnetic force and mine did as well. Like I needed to just merge with him in every way. I often wonder how the hell it was not real at times because good grief it sure felt real to me.

        1. sarabella says:

          Something similar I think though our ‘relationship’ was brief. He would hurt me, see it, reach out, I would respond, reach out to him, he would pull away in fear, I would reach out and sooth him, he would push me away, I would hurt, he would reach out to me… ugh. But there was something esle. I won’t ever know if it was true. But he told me to let him go once. I told him I would, but he had to stop thinking about me. I texted him, “I can FEEL it. Stop thinking about me. If you want me to let you go, let ME go.”. It was so bizarre. I felt like he was there all the time. Like I could feel his need for me, his need for something from me…. I would react to it and reach out to him often. It became the hardest thing to cut between us.

          And strangely, today, I felt it. I haven’t felt it in a few years. But I felt it. I felt him whispering my name. I felt him thinking of me. And it was sooo strong, so calm, so comforthing in an odd way, to feel him, that I knew if I reached out. He WOULD respond.

          Now, I know… somehow, that had nothing to do with him at all. Whatever I felt today, that brief moment of pull from him, wasn’t even coming from him. Or was it? That telepathic part that some of us feel… even narcs have themselves when they know they let you dangle too long and are getting too far out from them, and its time to bring you back. We feel it too I think… Or not.

          So confusing.

          1. I can relate to this. As soon as he senses me starting to drift there he is tossing his crumbs at me. And back I go feeling great before he ghosts again. And then it is lonely and desolate. I totally get what you are saying.

      2. Lori says:

        I don’t know that a standard empath is the other side of the same coin.

        It’s the Codependent that is. A Codependent Has the same wound Narc had only it manifest in the opposite way. This is why they prefer a codepebdent and vice versa. These 2 often feel at home with each other. They see each other as the good or bad vetsions of themselves. IMO its the Codependent they return to over and over because it feels so comfortable to them and vice versa

      3. Sharon Marinucci says:


    4. sarabella says:

      I dunno, not quite how it played out in my family. I was always sort of a rebel. But in an entirely different way than my brother who was more sociopathic (criminal minded, financially a disaster, irresponsible, couldn’t hold a job, addict…) My sister, the first child, was aggressive and almost violent in her anger and physical abuse. She learned to give my mother what she wanted to keep a relationship with her for herself and her kids. I just gave up though I kept trying. Now I am in full give up mode. I just give up. I am empathic, compassionate, far more so than my sister. But I also have a set of quite strong narc traits that I always knew were there and though at time I worked on them in my life, I didn’t have the language here to describe them as such. They still operate and I think I always knew how, but narcissism isn’t my dominant personality and as such, I was victimized by people. But in my case, I had another parralel life story that had nothing to do with my family and everything to do with society so it developed along side my super effed up family. A story entirely unique in my family and left to myself to cope with, it made me tough at an incredibly young age in a way that seemed to be why I survived and though victimized, survival always kicked in and kept me going. Thing is, my sister, she built up in her head that she took care of me and my brother. But she didn’t. She just knew what was missing and wrong and was angry and felt responsible, but she didn’t in fact take care of us. Her sense of how wrong it all was was a huge burden and made her feel like she had actually done alot, when she hadn’t. She emotionally filled in the blanks with her anger, but it wasn’t just her guilt, a sort of survivor’s guilt in a way.

      1. T says:

        Wow, sarabella! Sounds a lot like my family.
        It’s a lot to work through.

        1. sarabella says:

          I should be dead by now. Or even more effed up than I have been at times in my life. But it makes utter sense now. All of it…. And yes, its a mountain to have sorted out and it took my whole life to get to this point.

      2. NarcAngel says:

        Do you have a physical impairment or disability? I ask because you have made reference previous to being judged and victimized by society over something you could do nothing about.

        1. sarabella says:

          Yes. But its not stopped me from skiing, riding a horse, art, a successful work career. Or from being called beautiful. But its the core of the story with the narc. Everything pivoted around that for his tricks. Everything.

      3. LYNN says:

        Glad your working your way through it. I really wish you a great future darling x

  11. T says:

    The truth can be so ugly a lot of the time.

    1. /iroll says:

      – especially if you let a paranoid sociopath tell you what the ‘truth’ is

      1. T says:

        I love It! Exactly!!!

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