The Golden Rules of Freedom – No. 2

golden 2.jpg

It is only over when you die or we die. Death is the only release from our grip.

I repeatedly explain this. I am not advocating that you kill yourself, but rather, I am reinforcing to you, that owing to the Narcissistic Perspective we regard you as our property. You belong to us and that ownership lasts until either you die or we die.

I know some people regard such a comment as grandiosity on my part, “Oh HG,” they say “That’s just you wanting so sound powerful.”

No, it isn’t. True, it is a manifestation of power, but it is a fact and if you fail to abide by this golden rule then you will not achieve and maintain your freedom from our kind.

If you think such a comment is just a manifestation of grandiosity and that your entanglement with the narcissist is over and will never be resurrected, then you are falling prey to your emotional thinking. You will lower your guard, you will engage with us again and you will be ensnared in some form. I have seen it happen repeatedly with my victims. Further, I have lost track of the number of times honest readers have stated

“You were right HG. He came back.”

Of course he or she did. We always will,  if the opportunity arises because you are our property, our appliance and we have invested in you. We want to capitalise on that investment time and time again.

You may state with conviction that this was the ‘final discard’ (such a phrase makes me roll my eyes) because there is no such thing. Those that declare that it was the final discard,  invariably state it from one of two perspectives – firstly, that they have done something so terrible to the narcissist that he or she would never dare to darken their doorstep again or secondly it is said because they want the twisted confirmation that it isn’t the “final discard” and the narcissist will return because the addicted victim wants the narcissist to return again.

Such conviction is dangerous. It breeds complacency. It makes you vulnerable. I will not deny that there are certain acts which are committed against that result in massive wounding. These acts invariably lead to your disengagement and our kind may well skulk away tail between legs and not be seen or heard of for some time. But it is only a temporary state of affairs.

There is always a risk we will return. It may be a very low risk or a very high risk, but the risk remains and a lot of the time, owing to naivety and ineffective (supposed) no contact regimes the risk is higher than you realise. Owing to the innate addiction you have to our kind and your inherent susceptibility to the fraudulent effects of emotional thinking, the risk is higher than you realise.

By understanding that it is never over until you die or we die ensures you avoid the complacency which results in ensnarement. I do not mean you have to live your life thereafter always looking over your shoulder, but ensuring that you do not adopt the mantle of arrogance that we are gone for good. By maintaining the mindset that there is always a risk, you will create a Logic Defence so that you, over time and with the adoption of additional techniques I can detail to you, automatically maintain your vigilance so that it does not feel like a burden.

Every one of my romantic victims has been hoovered by me. I do not draw them back into the Formal Relationship as I have a nomadic approach, but they have all been hoovered. One was hoovered after a 12 year gap.

Do not regard this golden rule as one of inducing fear and despair, but instead apply it so that you maintain your awareness and your guard is now lowered. By understanding and applying this rule, you are far less likely to commit the elementary errors that those disregarding this rule will do.

Our mindset says it is never over until death comes. Our need for fuel and other elements of the Prime Aims means that it is never over until death comes. Our ability to return in so many different ways means that it is never over until death comes.

By combining this golden rule with my material however you can ensure that it may as well be over because your education and application of your education means the risk of our return has been reduced and maintained at a very low level indeed.

Disregard this golden rule and your risk increases.



99 thoughts on “The Golden Rules of Freedom – No. 2

  1. Kiki says:

    Yikes ,just reading the comments here ,what was all this grief about .
    Michelle what happened ?

  2. Michelle says:

    Catherine Parr…

    HG only knows me from email contact. But not well. No ive had no consultations with him. But he has like around 1000 just emails per day, so no he doesn’t know me or remember me though I know he has an excellent memory. But unless I was his IPPS or one of his IPSS’s or some other important fuel source then he is not going to bother with or remember me… a low life tertiary source. I am not surprised by this as I’ve read Fuel. It doesn’t bother me. I know what he is. He has his sources in place who provide him in his personal, social and work life. He doesn’t need any of us here. I’m surprised he even responds in here.
    But I’m sure he loves all the admiring words you all give him.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hg knows about you from your e-mails, your Instagram messages, your comments here, your comments on Youtube. Let’s have some accuracy.

      1. Michelle says:

        Didn’t think you wanted people to know about that….. so I didn’t relate that information….
        I was not lying…..
        Sometimes people don’t need to know everything…..

        1. HG Tudor says:

          No concern of mine, I was just pointing out what you generated, simple as that.

          1. Michelle says:

            Right, I can see where this is going….
            I told you to not reply… but you still did. You didn’t have to…
            But I can see how you want this to look, and I’ll let you have it look the way you want it.
            Because you’ve been patient with me….

        2. Narc Angel says:

          Well now,……interesting.

          1. Twilight says:

            Narc Angel

            And the truth will set others free!!!!!
            I am dying over here.

          2. Kim e says:

            Popcorn and Rum and Coke here for the movie.

          3. Omj says:

            Yeah my day was boring … a bit of action here :)) I don’t have the background so I am just a tourist here.

      2. Michelle says:

        How about you give some accuracy too…. oh thats right…..narcs rules! If you want me to go hg all you gotta do is say…..dearest! Don’t have to try and smear me…

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You do not get smeared here as readers already know.

      3. Michelle says:

        I deleted my comments on YouTube.. .. get your facts right!

        1. HG Tudor says:

          But the comments were there to begin with, which is the point.

      4. Michelle says:

        Low on fuel today are we?

        1. HG Tudor says:


          1. Michelle says:

            So if you wish for me to stop HG, contacting you, and making comments…. I shall stop. All you had to do was say. I’m just not good at making decisions. It’s like I need you to tell me.
            I’m glad you’ve made it clear now! I know you get tired of me.

            Take care HG.

            I’m sorry for calling NarcAngel and Twilight vultures, cats or for presuming they are jealous. That was bitchy and immature of me.They are just looking out for you. They are your loyal followers.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Nobody wrote that.

      5. Michelle says:

        Trust NarcAngel to pipe up lol! Fill ya boots NarcAngel….i know you want to

        Oh I just give up….

        yes HG my…. Lord, oh ….powerful one, I am so obsessed with you! Please make it stop….
        (Ahem…. sorry I’ll try a bit harder…).

        You see I just cannot stop thinking about you and my mind and heart are totally devoted to you. I mean I literally live you, breathe you…. (cough cough!)

        Oh and hg I need you like….um the sunshine, I want you like if I needed water in a desert? (I think this is how it goes…. maybe more mushiness?!)

        O…. oh fuck! Nope sorry I can’t keep it up sorry!

        Close your mouth hg I can see what you had for breakfast!

        So the people that send you emails, and youtube comments and comments on here, that’s pretty much most people right? Yet I’ve had no consultations with you….

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Did you actually read what I wrote?

          1. Michelle says:

            Did you read what I wrote hg? Oh look here come the cats sniffing around lol! Knew they would…..

          2. HG Tudor says:


            The blog is not a combative forum. People are encouraged to share their experiences, offer their perspectives, ask questions and challenge my writing/outlook/perspective in a constructive manner. Readers may also do so of one another. The rules that operate here encourage a constructive and informed exchange. I have no issue with people attacking me – it is a dollop of fuel – and they soon get fed up of doing so because they are not going to get a reaction from me. I will however correct any inaccuracies that people express (they usually do so because they have jumped right in with a view without actually having read my work and/or examined and observed the constructive exchange which takes place here). There are no agendas – nobody is manipulated because there is no need for that to occur. I have no lieutenants here because they are not needed. I do have loyal readers who will express their own views about the comments and behaviours of other readers and yes they will often defend me because they appreciate the work i undertake and the respectful exchanges which take place. It is not necessary, misplaced and unwelcome to approach the exchanges here in a belligerent manner. Nobody gets picked on – the hundreds of thousands of exchanges bear that out. You are welcome to comment, but if you find the experience one which is causing you to respond in an unconstructive fashion, then you may wish to reconsider your position.

          3. Michelle says:

            Which part were you referring to HG dearest? 🤣

          4. Michelle says:

            Well at least we’ve made their day less boring ey HG? A Narc and a borderline will deffo do that lol!
            We are giving these empaths way too much fun….

        2. Caroline says:

          Just some friendly advice…(mainly because I’m uncomfortable and hate tension, not because I expect anyone to do anything other than what they want)…

          I’d not keep on like this with HG. Nothing good to come from it. Sometimes withdrawing is the wisest course.

          (This message is brought to you by Caroline’s swamped inbox).

      6. Michelle says:

        I’m yawning too…. but it shows who the vultures are…. or the jealous ones
        Well at least I did your corrections on 2 of your books for free, at least give me that. I felt like a school teacher!

      7. Jenna says:


        What’s going on here?! Remember, be positive or stay silent unless you have something constructive to say!

      8. Quasi says:

        Yo – Caroline’s swamped inbox, haha, you always make me smile; and often laugh out loud. Also totally agree with you… I’m bewildered! and the wrinkles on my forehead are aching abit! Due to said bewilderment being expressed with funny faces.. lol

        1. Caroline says:

          Yo, Adrianne! (er, Yo, Quasi!)… [reference to “Rocky” movie — don’t wanna assume everyone knows]…

          Never a dull moment around this joint, huh?:-)

          Speaking of dull moments… I think darling OMJ wrote she was a little bit bored today. I wish I was bored today! I’m on pins and needles… obsessively listening to the news everywhere I go… work… home… car… I’m not saying this to get any of us into the topic of world politics (please, no)… it’s just…

          Longest day ever…wowser.

          P.S. I don’t have cute emoji access on here, which makes me quite sad… like that “bawling face emoji” sad. THAT sad.

      9. Quasi says:

        Hi Caroline, I got the reference lol.
        Definitely no politics!
        Lovely Caroline, I hope your day has improved.

        The day is almost done, a new fresh one awaits tomorrow.. I hope the worry weighing heavier on your mind today dissipates…

        remembering that we can only do so much, and have an impact on our immediate surroundings and relationships.
        Your heart is really quite lovely..
        and you really do crack me up!! Thank you Caroline I do enjoy reading your comments.. xx

        1. Caroline says:

          Thank you, Quasi! That was from my yesterday (and I’m never sure what time zones anyone is in), but my today is much more chillin’. 😉 Of course, by the time this posts, it may actually be your tomorrow — from yesterday… say WHAT, goofball Caroline?! Lol

      10. Quasi says:

        Lol Caroline…. love your responses ! don’t go changing! Anyone with the capacity to make me smile with a single line is all good in my book.. xo

    2. SuperXena says:

      I want to share with you two coping strategies that are more beneficial to people that adopt them. I have learned and witnessed here on this site that the application of them are far more beneficial than any others.

      It is not an attack , it is not a criticisim ,it is something that I hope you would find helpful to apply for your own benefit. You are just continuing hurting yourself.

      – Easy and appropriately access to the flight instinct leads to disengage and retreat when confrontation would exacerbate danger.

      – Easy and appropriate access to the freeze instinct leads to give up and quit struggling when further activity or resistance is futile or counterproductive.

  3. Ellen says:

    HG,can a hoover be something as innocuous as “the boss” driving by my home, or another family member dropping by unannounced repeatedly (of course, I do not open the door), or a birthday card from another relative (I threw it into the trash, unopened), and a birthday email from yet another family member, all of whom totally ignore the fact that we have not spoken in over a year? Or am I being paranoid? The way I see it, they do not respect me; I have finally accepted this truth, hence, I implemented GOSO. Why the outreach?

    1. HG Tudor says:


  4. Vera says:

    I agree with this post 100% HG. I’ve had this mindset since I went no contact. This is always in the back of my mind which helps me to keep an incredibly rigid and steadfast no contact plan in place.

  5. Tamara says:

    I remember reading somewhere that you have been engaged multiple times but only married once. Why did you not get married to the girls you got engaged to?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I did not want to.

      1. Twilight says:

        Were your engagements future faking and keeping them in play until you were done?

        I believe this was what the UMR did and the accident was just a convenient way that happened to be able to have access and control areas in my life he was not able to. 5 months later discard happened. We were together for almost 3 years. That is one man I know could find me anywhere, he is also the reason why I do not walk in certain social circles anymore.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          No, they were part of binding but I saw no need to progress matters.

          1. Twilight says:

            Thank you HG

          2. Twilight says:

            Ok now I am really curious as to what made things different with your ex wife that you decide to marry her?

          3. HG Tudor says:

            As explained, promotion securing.

          4. Twilight says:

            If I had stopped and thought about it…..thank you HG.

          5. Clarece says:

            You also said once you were at the stage in your life where being married and settled down would look good for progressing your career.

          6. HG Tudor says:

            Hence the reference to promotion.

          7. Clarece says:

            I thought you meant her being promoted to wife to bond her more because of her potent fuel. Sorry.

          8. HG Tudor says:

            I understand, quite alright.

  6. Mallory DiMaio says:

    My ex narc lost his nephew who he acted as a role model too when in fact he was doing drugs and partying with him. This relationship served as potent fuel for him while helping maintain his facade. When he passed 2 weeks later my ex narc was looking up medians and spiritual advisors to contact his nephew…. he needed fuel and death was not going to get in his way!!!

  7. Anonymous says:

    Glad to read this today as I have been leaning toward twisted. I guess its fickle to not want my ex back yet want him to think of me.

  8. Mercy says:

    HG it is because of the information that you have provided that I no longer get anxiety when he goes no contact or says it’s over. Recently he said “we need to go our separate ways for good” I told him “nope” that’s one decision he doesn’t get to make. I may not be no contact yet but I feel empowered by the fact that I will be the one that ends this…not him.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Well done and you are welcome.

  9. Swifty says:

    You have taught me a lot over the years and most of what you have said and predicted has become reality but on this subject you are judging completely from your own perspective and not every narc is you. I published a blog and publicly exposed my covert mid-range narc ex to all his friends and family. I created such a narcissistic injury to his ego that he blocked me. I deliberately did this 1) for revenge because at the time I was feeling angry and vengeful and 2) because I knew he would run for the hills calling me crazy and I knew he could never return. Neither of us could ever go there again and that was my purpose. I know it was and will always be the final discard.

  10. Omj says:

    HG … how many ignored your hoovering ? What do you consider a successful Hoover ? Getting fuel ? If someone does not respond – or does not provide fuel … do you consider successful Hoover ?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Very few. A successful hoover is one which delivers fuel. It may also deliver more, but the primary aim is fuel.

  11. Omj says:

    I was hoovered after 23 years and he sucked me right back in – left my husband – an upper mid I believe and the lesser – after 23 years – sent me right back to hell like there is no tomorrow.

    I will never forget seeing him 3 years later – crying and begging me to not leave him – his inferior lip shaking – he went begging to my parents- my friends – my siblings who all sent him to hell.

    That was my ultimate revenge- I hate him more than anything that exist – he is a rat – a snake – a disgusting slime ….

    I had a major depression.

    I only réalisés he was a narc and a lesser reading this blog. Lessers would never be my type – I am not after broke – no status guy- it was our «  story » that brought me back.

    The sphere of influence – he met my mom at the hardware store – 5 days later he had found me on the internet and left a message – a red flag – on my phone «  hello , I am a phantom from the past, I come back to haunt you « 

    I thought it was cute – I called him back – 3 months later – after 23 years of being away from this guy- I left my husband .

    So yes – we are never never protected from these suckers.

  12. Insatiable Learner says:

    HG, is there really not a time period after which the shelved individual may conclude the narc will never hoover?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      The day after the narc has died.

      1. Insatiable Learner says:

        Well, you are the expert, HG. I will take you at your word. Thank you. This is indeed serious. Do your kind really think we continue pining for you no matter how much time has passed?

      2. NarcAngel says:

        Something tells me you have arranged for minions to deliver beautifully caligraphied hoovers on fine vellum comprised of your own shed skin cells lovingly collected from your Peter Reed linens and T M Lewin socks by your faithful housekeeper and then scented with Creed in order to prove that hoovers are not over even in death.

        Someone will still contest it though. Likely in 5…4…3…

        1. 12345 says:

          NA, this is fantastic! If anyone one could hoover from the beyond it is definitely HG.

  13. 12345 says:

    H.G., this is the thought that just went through my head…

    I wonder if HG misses the followers of his who are closer to the other side of the emotional sea and don’t post as much?

    After all I’ve learned from you and have been healing with all your help, I actually had that thought and was even going to ask you! I’m just never going to be completely well, am I? Something in me will always accidentally forget that narcissists don’t feel those feelings.

    Well, I miss you 🙂

    1. Michelle says:

      12345…… I have those thoughts and feelings too. You are not the only one.
      Sometimes I think HG must think this or that about me then I remind myself that HG actually probably doesn’t even know who I am, remember anything about me, (I mean there are thousands of us)… nor would he care or even notice whether I commented in his blog or not. He is like in the matrix now as he scans across all the readers… so he probably just sees: blond,…. brunette, red head….

      We must just all merge into one. We are all like grains of sand to him.
      All he cares about is fuel!

      1. 12345 says:

        Good analogy. Grains of sand. I need to remember that when I think of my ex narc. I’m not even an appliance! Just a grain of sand.

      2. Catherine Parr R says:

        Mr. Tudor has already told the world in several articles he wants/needs fuel. Why do you sound so surprised, and why does it matter to you if ‘we all just merge into one’? How would he know who you are if you have never had a consultation with him? Your questions are bizarre.

    2. Quasi says:


      I believe that to miss someone would imply that they are a somebody to you, that they are a person. Potentially a person who you can identify through not only their character but their meaning and connection to you. Someone you have formed an attachment to. Someone you feel something for. Someone you value. I would not imagine this is not possible when you view people as objects and refer to them as appliances.

      I would suggest that to miss someone implies that you have cared for them.
      Through the process of learning it has become very apparent that the only thing a narcissist may “miss” could be what you did for them, the fuel you supplied. Not you as a person because we are not people to them. Even then I’m pretty sure that this instance is a temporary one, as there are more sources in the matrix, so loosing one is probably inconsequential.

      In my opinion Depersonalisation is actually essential for us, to know it’s not about us at all, it’s only ever about them..

      I have found the blog helpful in many ways, I have found it cathartic to talk about things with people who understand. But I have also utilised it to help desensitise myself to narcissism in general, and to test myself and my reactions to things, so I can then work on what I find.

      I can only imagine that if people slowly slip away off the blog it would go unoticed, maybe other bloggers would note this and enquire (because they have care and compassion) if someone has been participating for a long time especially so.

      You missing HG would indicate your care and regard for him, I would be with you on that one. But at some point it will probably just make sense to slip away, the final part of this healing journey would surely be letting go, and being free of narcissism.

      My problem is that I like HG as a writer and regardless of the subject would want to keep reading his work, not sure how to step away from that one as it’s all about narcissism! Damn it….

      1. 12345 says:

        Excellent deductions, Quasi. In the moment I thought “you just haven’t learned anything, have you!” But, you’re right, as empaths we naturally care about someone who has helped us so much. I still read the blog a lot. Not as much as when I first discovered it, but to stay sharp on narcissism I’ve got to keep it fresh in my brain since I’ve had 50 years of cult indoctrination that narcissism is the only way to have relationship. HG has been a lifesaver for me and I will be forever grateful. I do care a great deal about him.

      2. Quasi says:

        Hi 12345,

        I would imagine that you have learned a great deal, far much more then I have. Not only due to the time you have been on the blog, but more so your own life experiences, which teach the biggest and most powerful lessons.
        But our emotions are just that, they are ours and they feel what they feel, whatever we learn, we will still feel. It’s just up to our rational mind to avail and conquer when it comes to it.

        I responded to your comment because it resonated with me as to where I think I am at in my journey. My experience was minimal less then a year and in a secondary source role.
        I have analysed, learnt, processed, computed and retained all the information that I can. I am now weary.
        As I have not had the length or magnitude of experience that others on the blog have had, I feel I have reached my destination sooner.
        I have only been commenting on the blog for a couple of months, but I’m certain I would miss the interaction with all of the amazing,
        Genuine, compassionate people I have met here… although slipping away when it feels right to does sounds like a lovely thing too…

        I am absolutely sure that he is aware of how much you care for him. I don’t believe it goes unnoticed.
        Gratitude is a very powerful emotion, and expressive trait.
        I believe that it’s actually one of the strongest emotions to enhance an attachment/ connection.

        I like your use of the term deductions by the way, I feel like I need to purchase a Sherlock Holmes hat and pipe!
        I hope you don’t mind me piping up, ( although I did anyway lol) the deductions were really just my musings on the matter, when I think about human connections and what is actually required to “miss someone”. I just think it requires more then what the narcissist is capable of.

    3. NarcMagnet says:

      To borrow & bastardize a line from Halestorm, he doesn’t miss us, he misses the misery.

  14. Caroline says:

    No. I understand the overall concept — but I vigorously disagree, on principle and truth at the core of this message… and I only disagree when I am sure. I AM sure.

    Death is NOT the only release. If you are done with an entanglement/relationship/a person, it is done. Period. You say so! It doesn’t matter what anyone else (the narcissist) does… that is their delusion. When you’re really done, it is over. Nothing they do matters. You are free.

    So it’s over, for you… that IS the reality. Can you be bothered? Pestered? Stalked? Yes. But it changes nothing about how another human being can truly have an power over you… unless you allow it, in your own mind. There is no need to — they have nothing over you. All human beings can overcome a narcissist… because you have truth on your side. That matters.

    They have a problem. That is not about you — you are not in it — and so you do what is necessary — so that this person’s false perspective doesn’t annoy you to your grave. No! Not allowed!

    In other words, it’s over when I say it is over. I’m not going to think that a narcissist gets that memo. It matters not, if they do.

    It’s over. I seize that. That’s reality… there will not be a “waiting until you or I die” lingering.

    Bye. Over. Truth. Reality.

    1. Omj says:

      Caroline … is it over now for you ??
      You seem like you went to fear to force ?
      How are you?
      I like the tone of your message – there is retaliation – instead of rage – there is determination – instead of hatred …
      After I believe comes peace … sometimes and somewhere over the rainbow :))

      1. Caroline says:

        Ohhhh…it was SO OVER years ago, my dear friend.

        See what happens when you screw with Skippy? Lol~I’m seriously fine — just very firm in my beliefs (what can ya do about Caroline?… But yeah, this sorta triggered me today, on behalf of all empaths…this isn’t a diss on HG at all… it’s just me, standing up, when I feel it real big).

        Very perceptive, OMJ. Any leftover fear is gone… all gone.

        1. Omj says:

          my empaths antennas- although I cannot still see my name and empath making sense together but I came to peace with that concluding that I can perceive – feel etc so yes I felt that your fear has gone – that is amazing because fear is a major tool for Narcs.

          Happy dear for you ! Your beliefs become reality but in terms of addiction a path in the brain never erases – but you can create new paths.

          People who have lost control over alcohol – when they go back drinking after a few years being sober- fall back on the track they were when they lost control . So I take the caution I have in my journey to stay sober as the same for staying away from my Narc . I know I can’t afford a lip of wine – and I can’t afford a lip of my Narc.

          I do have experimented that once you have add an strong addiction – you need to stay vigileant forever at least that is my experience !

          That is my take – I took control of my life over alcohol – now I need to take full control of my life over my Narc.

          1. Caroline says:

            That’s so true, about an empath’s antenna, OMJ.

            I’ve got more of a stalking situation now than anything, so check my story out on an upcoming Lifetime movie… I’ll be the empath mowed down in my work parking lot (that’s not that funny/sorry). I’m being cautious, but I just can’t live in fear. Cannot and will not.

            (Word to the wise: never attempt friendship with a narcissist you were previously in a FR with/learn from my poor example).

    2. Quasi says:

      Caroline I love this comment!

      1. Caroline says:

        XO, Quasi:-)

    3. Michelle says:

      Son of a monkey’s balls!!!! Omj.. ….you say it girl!!! I felt like jumping up and waving a mascot about or something… after reading your comment!!!

      OWN it!

    4. Jess says:

      I love this! You know how to keep emotional thinking in check and your focus forward. Life goals.

      1. Caroline says:

        Thank you, Jess~that’s very kind.:-)

    5. Twilight says:


      When they die you know they will never be back.
      Yet I do agree once you decide it is over, it is for you. If they Hoover then you are faced with opening that door, yet the choice is in your hands to do such, and accept the responsibility of your choice. Just as the choice to Hoover is in theirs.

      1. Caroline says:

        Point taken~quite right, Twilight.:-)

    6. blackunicorn123 says:

      Caroline, I completely agree with you. When it is over for me –
      There are a few times I thought I was at this stage, only to be proved wrong, but he did something recently (wasn’t even a big thing), and it was like a switch being flipped. I’ve let it all go. It’s just gone. He is now irrelevant. I can’t explain it, but i now have the power. Interestingly, he’s sensed it and knows I do too. If it keeps him away for a while, until I have to deal with him again, then bonus points to me. I really can’t be bothered with him anymore. I really can’t.

      1. Caroline says:

        Blackunicorn123 (I just love writing your cool name),

        Good for you! And I know exactly what you mean — the switch flipping. That happened with me during the FR…and when that happens, I’m done. It can be over a very small thing, too. But once it happens, forget it. I’m not changing my mind. He was so used to wrangling me back, but there was no way to do it. I can be ridiculously stubborn, but I sometimes think that’s a good thing… it’s probably a self-protective measure, because I do have a very soft and forgiving heart.

        [Don’t you agree that my stubbornness is a very good thing, HG? Mighty jolly good, yes? You like my spunk…righto, Sir? (lol~just a little sidenote, to our Resident Expert).]

        Back to the flipping of switches…Upon my ex-BF’s return Hoover, I was so hopeful that we could be friends. I could see it working, and I was even (in the beginning) excited about it… but I didn’t know then that he’s a narcissist. After the education here and how it all was going down, I realized it doesn’t matter what I feel/see, when it comes to a narcissist. If he couldn’t see it or want something, it wasn’t happening. He didn’t want us to be friends, so it wasn’t going to happen. So the switch flipped for me, again…I was done trying the impossible.

        I did, at least, accomplish a few things during my second go-around with him. One was that he listened fully to me — and admitted — something that he did to me (really bad) at the beginning of the FR. I was shocked he would give me that, but he did. I appreciated it, and it was healing for me.

        So 3 good things remain, that cannot be taken away from me:

        1) Getting the closure I did… that was worth it!

        2) I’m *still* not bitter… about any of it. I don’t have a constitution to be bitter, which is something I do like about myself. So I’ll just keep going on, as I always have. I can’t control what he does next…I’ll deal with what comes, same as I always have, since my first encounter with the narcissist.

        3) I’ve met a lot of special people on this site, who understand what I’ve been through, and I can relate to… and I *keep* learning, from you all — and from HG… who, yes, is a narcissist, but he didn’t choose that. I feel for him and appreciate many things about him, and that’s healthy and good. I’m grateful that he created this site, and I appreciate all the help it gives so many. HG has some great qualities… which I won’t go into… because I have to keep my Inner Brat alive with him.

        So on we go, doing the best we can with what we know… each and every day.

    7. windstorm says:

      Yes! I completely agree with you! True they will always consider us theirs and there will always be the possibility of a hoover. But it is our thinking and mindset that frees us! Our power over them comes from within us. What they think doesn’t matter. It’s over for us when we say it’s over. They can still hoover, but it no longer affects us. Once we understand them and we’re beyond emotional thinking about them, Hoover’s can actually be entertaining.

      1. Caroline says:

        I’ll look forward to a more entertaining Hoover, Windstorm. His last few Hoovers have been nasty (He’s in a foul mood and blames me for this, so I’m hoping the passage of time will help).

      2. Quasi says:

        Windstorm, this is a great response and I totally agree with you. Especially when you said our power over them comes from within us. What they think doesn’t matter.
        Such a good perspective to have. I really respect this position and believe that you very much mean what you say.

  15. Anon says:

    A drive-by, what is the purpose? And, if I have seen this person drive past my home in a city of over 100,000 people several times, is it safe to assume this behavior is occurring more than I know?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      This is a passive hoover and he is hoping to provoke you into contacting him so he can gauge your response, gain fuel and possibly up the ante. He gains Thought Fuel from driving past. It is likely he is doing it more than you realise.

    2. Anon says:

      HG, Please let me know how I can remove my name from this post! I am not computer savvy and do not want this personal info public.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        It has been changed for you.

      2. Anon says:

        HG, thank you very much!

  16. Michelle says:

    “Owing to the innate addiction you have to our kind and your inherent susceptibility to the fraudulent effects of emotional thinking, the risk is higher than you realise.”

    This is actually what worries me the most. Myself…. I am addicted or drawn to your kind. (Early trauma bonding, codependecy.. …etc….the wanting to be controlled yet wanting control too, empath….its all there, and I didn’t choose it all, it’s just how I was molded by my primary caregivers and experiences).

    And it seems you Narcs know which type of individuals these ones are who have this weakness. Therefore I guess to a certain extent we actually come to you…. we go towards the danger….
    Fire is dangerous…. but it’s glow and the colour of the flames as they flicker and dance are very seductive!

    You must get sick of telling us all the same things over and over again….

    It must feel like we are all like your children in a way, and you are trying to teach us and help us learn to take the right paths….and you have to keep reminding us, because just like children we get lost sometimes…. or make mistakes….

    1. Omj says:

      There is a balance to get at one point which is focus on us instead of them – and it can only come with GOSO.

      Impossible to self care and build strengths by being near , in contact in some sorts.

      We are being caught in our dissonances , emotional thinking … our constructs and making aisnreally where the acceptance and then new thoughts that will lead us to knew behaviours.

      It is important , to my view , to keep the learning fresh because we easily fall again or fall for another one…

      1. Michelle says:

        Caroline….. I meant Caroline sorry….. your comment was awesome!

        1. Caroline says:

          Thanks, Michelle~your cute comment really made me laugh… and yes, and let’s not put my post on poor OMJ. She’s chillin’ — I was the one who was all fired up. 😉

      2. Michelle says:

        I’ll never fall for another one! I know too much now. They are incredibly damaged to the core individuals. Even they themselves would not know where to begin to start to process or deal with their pain. What hope does anyone else have?
        They cannot love, neither can i properly so why would two people get together who can’t love? It would be a disaster, but like my mum and dad getting together lol!
        Narcs brains do not work the same as others. They are or were programmed differently due to abuse and trauma. They have to be the way they are to protect themselves. I understand this as I do a similar type thing being borderline.

        Guess it must be a cluster B type thing!

  17. Holly E Mead says:

    Even in their death we are entangled with them. The memories never leave…..the devastation ever present.

    Till death do us part…and never then either. Forever, they live in your mind.

    1. Delmara says:

      Holly, it really sounds like you’re feeling hopeless and like through the memories and the pain that you’ll carry, you’ll be trapped forever. Would it be a thing that you could do, not now, but later when you’re ready, to view those memories, feelings, and experiences as a learning experience, and a warning that guides you in future relationships of all types?

      I hope things start to feel better and more hopeful for you soon!

      1. Holly E Mead says:

        The pain is a mixture of deep grief for the human being he was and the emotional pain he suffered, and the manner in which he died. The other emotionis the disbelief that someone could cheat and lie to such an extent.

        You know, you can have feelings of infidelity, and some small proof to the extent of their debauchery, but I actually was front and center with it at his funeral and all the Facebook messaging from his numerous victims.

        It has been soul shocking to know the real truth, it was worse that HG writes. I would never have known extent of his decipt except for his death.

        I hope people reading my posts…one who has experienced the death of the Narc…would heed HG’s words. He’s not foolin around…it’s as bad as he says.

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