A Lack of Support



We don’t provide support. We are too concerned with ourselves and our daily hunt for the fuel that we need to be concerned about you. We are engrossed in our own world and have no interest in yours. The only time we pay attention to you is when you are providing us with fuel or you stop providing us with fuel. Everything we do is focussed around us. This is because we have to obtain fuel, as without we will disintegrate. The hunger for this fuel is never ending and accordingly all of our energy must be applied towards obtaining it. This leaves us with nothing left over for anyone else.

Being a caregiver yourself, you would like to think that the person who you share your life with, or who you work closely with, would be amenable to providing you with support. That may mean giving you emotional support when you are experiencing a difficult time or taking the strain allowing you to lessen the burden on yourself. You give and you are happy to do so, therefore why should they not do so as well? That is the outlook of someone normal operating by the norms and rules of your world. Those do not apply to us. We cannot provide you with support since we have nothing available to do so.

Added to that we do not know how to provide emotional support. Yes we can see how chores can be done and the like. We also have observed the ways that you provide emotional support to other people and we know the phrases that are used, the expressions that are formed on people’s faces and the gestures that are made. We have seen all that and we could trot all that out. In fact we have done in the past. We did this when we were seducing you. When we wanted you to divulge about your weaknesses and vulnerabilities this will have invariably saddened you and upset you. It may even have caused an episode where you need emotional support. We were happy to go through the motions then because we were at the stage of investing in your in order to get our fuel. We were content to make the right noises, give you a hug and make the panacea that is the cup of tea. All of this was learned from others. We did not feel anything for you. We could not put ourselves in your shoes (heaven forbid that would ever happen) and we could not empathise with what you were experiencing and nor can we ever do that. Yet again, we conned you into thinking that we are a caring and selfless person. We demonstrated such an approach when we were first together and that attracted you to us. This raised expectations that you could rely on us and turn to us when the need arose. It is all false.

Furthermore, when you need support and expect it from us, you are showing to us how you are weak. We despise weakness. You will find that our kind is rarely found near children, the infirm and ill and the elderly. This is because they are all weak and want support regularly. We do not want to be reminded of that fact. We cannot be bothered with you cluttering up our route to fuel. An exhibition of weakness infuriates us. A normal person would see someone in a position of weakness and deign to help and assist. We have seen how this is a natural reaction in normal people. It will not happen with us.

If you are fortunate, we will absent ourselves from the situation in an instant. We will generate some urgent reason; find a pressing engagement we had forgotten about in order to ensure we can get away from you and your ailment, woe or injury. You probably will never see us move as quick when it comes to getting away from somebody who needs help. If we are unable to exit the situation then we may just stand and look at you. You could be reaching out to us, eyes filled with tears of pain, asking for help and we will just give you a blank stare. We know we ought to be helping you, convention and observation has told us this, but we cannot do so. We are unable to leave but we are also unable to help you. This requires compassion and we do not have any. It requires us to us our energies to help you out and we are forbidden from doing so.

Our ultimate reaction where you need support from us is to go on the offensive. The uncomfortable feeling that you have generated inside of us makes us feel less powerful and smacks of inferiority. We know of only one way to banish such a sensation. We need to reassert our power and that means we must lash out at you. It becomes necessary to subject you to further insults and denigrating comments, at a time when you are feeling hurt and vulnerable.

“What are you crying for? I have had worse happen to me.”

“I am sick and tired of you being pathetic. Deal with it.”

“I bet (insert name of triangulated individual) would not make such a song and dance about it like you do.”

“It’s only a dog, you can get another one. Seriously, what a display over a dumb animal.”

“You are hysterical, you need to get help.”

“Stop crying or I will give you something to cry about.”

“That’s right; make it about you on my special day.”

We will lash out at you with these words in order to make you feel worse and ourselves feel better because that is all we care about. We fooled you into thinking that we care about you. That is a fallacy. Do not expect us to support you.

Demonstrating our legendary hypocrisy we will expect you to always be there for us. When we have a need you must attend to it straight away, even if you are experiencing difficulties yourself. When we have a scratch we expect you to make it better even though you might be bleeding to death before us. As with so much of our behaviour we do not regard the way we act towards you as meaning you should behave the same way towards us. If you chopped us in half you would most likely find this stencilled through us like lettering on a stick of rock

“Do as I say, not do as I do.”


77 thoughts on “A Lack of Support

  1. Valkyrie says:

    Looking back, it amazes me how little we come to expect by way of caring from our narcissists or just crappy boyfriends.

    My mother passed away when I was living with my boyfriend. He did not go with me to the funeral or offer much support.

    When I was dating my husband and we started to get serious, I remember asking him if someone in my family passed or a close friend, if he would go with me to the funeral. He said of course without hesitation and with a look, like who wouldn’t do that?

    Yeah…my expectations of general human kindness were pretty low.

    1. Omj says:

      Sometimes we don’t want them there either … The Narc I mean.

  2. Nina says:

    I could write so many examples of this with my ex Narc and our long marriage. However there is one that immediately comes to mind, and is one of the most painful. It was a few days before Thanksgiving, I was in my mid 20’s and experiencing an excruciatingly painful miscarriage. After spending hours at the emergency room, we finally got to see a nurse. There was not much they could at that point except relieve my physical pain but I will never forget the words that came out of his mouth. He asked the nurse how soon we could resume sexual relations. I will never forget how shocked I felt when he said that.

    1. Clarece says:

      😥😥😥 A miscarriage never leaves you. I’m so sorry.

      1. Pixie says:

        Clarence, so true, for me anyway. I named the tiny boy William and he’ll always be my child.
        I have way too many examples of his lack of compassion, self-centeredness, etc. Cruel bastard. No emotion.
        I, took am so sorry, Nina.

      2. nfl3 says:

        Thank you, dear Clarece. It took many years to heal, and still I wonder about what could have been.

    2. Valkyrie says:

      So sorry Nina. In the midst of a situation where he should be totally focused on you and what you need, he choose that. 💔

      Hugs and love, Valk

    3. K says:

      I am so sorry! How awful that must have been for you, WTF! That was really sad to read. I am really sorry that you had to go through that. To be objectified so callously, while you were losing your baby, is just plain cruel.

      1. MB says:

        K and Nina, it seems that his question should have been a red flag to hospital staff. I know they have screening questions for domestic abuse and mental health now even if that’s not what you come in for.

        1. K says:

          I was thinking the same thing. A GIGANTIC RED FUCKING FLAG! The medical profession, as a whole, has a poor understanding of NPD and all the other Cluster Bs, as well. When I listen to people speak, I know fairly quickly if they are dealing with a narcissist.

          And my two BPDs (narcissists incognito) use their BPD diagnosis to blame shift their shitty behaviour and take clozapine and Adderall.

          The APA is useless.

      2. nfl3 says:

        Thank you all so much. I am now just seeing these comments.

        1. K says:

          You are welcome nfl3

    4. Omj says:

      Me … He went to ref a basketball game after my abortion .

  3. Mercy says:

    I would always wake up to multiple messages from him. Never failed every morning him rambling about his life. I’d say “good morning, I’m fine thank you”. He never asked of course.

    Other times I’d be talking about something in my life. He would interrupt and change the subject. I’d let him finish, wouldn’t acknowledge what he said then continue with my story.

    I knew he didn’t care what I was saying but I loved being a smart ass and I loved even more his reaction when I would ignore him.

    Obviously I was a malfunctioning appliance at that point

  4. Trocadero says:

    Thanks everybody, it’s reassuring and making me blow away more easily the fantasies of us ‘happy together in real life’ :/ my main problem was that it was a dirty empath situation, and I was always making excuses for his behaviour in my head because of this. Like, ‘what if he’s like that bc I am miles away and ‘poor thing’ knows I am another man’s woman every day, so it must be hard for him’ hahaha yeah right! But it still makes me wonder sometimes if it would be different if we were a couple, bloody emotional thinking! Like I don’t really know…one time my son was sick and I told him that I cannot chat ,so at first he was so compassionate-telling me to turn off my phone and focus on taking care of him,and on the very next day,without even asking how my son was,he was sending me ‘jokes’ with naked women he follows on ig ! I mean,wtf! And then of course when I would go crazy,he would tell me that I don’t understand jokes and that I am being oversensitive!!

    1. MommyPino says:

      Sounds like you’re doing great! I have been on a similar situation myself just this Spring. I never acknowledged to the narc that I had a huge crush on him and that his flirtations did work! That’s mainly because I made a decision that I will never cheat so I did all that I can to fight my feelings. It was one of the hardest things that I have ever done. I can totally relate to you about imagining how it would have been of we were a couple and I thought that he was sich a nice guy but he must be that in love with me to want to pursue me even though I am already married. It was all b.s. now I know. So thankful that I found Mr. Tudor’s blog and have read some of hos books. I did see all kinds of red flags that I overlook because of my emotional thinking. Now that I am out of the fog everything is clear to me that I was able to avert a huge mistake. So hang in there. I’m so happy for you!

  5. Michelle says:

    Shortly after I met Narc Friend we went hiking together. I had an unfortunate (though not serious) accident. I am a “keep calm and carry on” type so I just finished the hike without complaint though I was actually very miserable and worried about my safety. Narc Friend found it amusing, which it was on some level, but never even asked me if I was alright. It would have been nice to check. He was so impressed with my stoic behavior that he mentioned it in an e-mail later, still very unconcerned that it could have been more serious.

    Later I was biking with him and injured myself. (I’m clumsy.) He ignored that as well and never asked if I needed any serious help, though the injury continued to hurt for a long time after. When I’d bring it up even days later, he’d ignore the fact that it even happened, and never inquired how I was feeling, though our mutual friends would ask if I was in pain right in front of him.

    Later, when I went through the serious illness of a family member, he was very kind and supportive, but by then he had figured out that I was a treasure chest of fuel.

  6. renatadavies says:

    I remember the day that he push me against the floor and hurted my arm so bad! My arm become purple and blowup INSTANTLY! I cryied like a baby becouse i was feeling so much pain…..So he saw me like that , no emtions. ZERO ! He went to get a bag with ice, push me by the hand , and said “Stop to cry, stop to do drama”. So i lay down in the bed , quiet and put my arm in the bag with ice. He turn on he TV , put in some cmedy show and start to laught like a crazy. I was there, beside of him in shock! How a person can be so cold like that ? Then i realized the he was not laughting becouse of the tv show, he was laughting of me and my pain.
    he think he is a genious, but he is just a asshole. he is a miserable, he is just a MIDDLE NARCISIST and now his game is so clear for me .

    I bet my ex would like o be a great one but he is so stupid for that HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA DUMB CREATURE! LOL

    1. Caroline R says:

      I hope your arm has healed since then renatadavies. What a horrible experience.

  7. Valkyrie says:

    There were times when my narc showed concern for me. I was very grateful and happy. I think it is important to let them know when they do something helpful. I am big on positive reinforcement and compassion.

    Sometimes it was harder for me to be happy because I was always wondering how he felt, or if it was real, or if it was really me he liked or the idea of me. Always waiting on the other shoe to drop.

    I did really appreciate when he took care of me.

    1. Caroline R says:

      Hi Valk,
      I tried the reinforcing good behaviour and ignoring the not good with ex-N. It didn’t work. It was too exhausting.

      My N-Mum was good at support when you weren’t well. She’d cook for you, and try to make you feel loved. She’d do housework, and other practical things to help. This was something I loved about her. She also babysat my pets at various times when I’d go on holiday. My black dwarf lop bunny loved her, and would do a little dance of joy when he heard her car arriving.

    2. Caroline R says:

      Having said that about my N-Mum, I realised that years of gaslighting has trained my memory to be selective and after commenting here I remembered that when I’d become deeply depressed (working two weeks of nights every six weeks for four years contributed too), N-Mum verbally attacked me.
      She couldn’t understand or tolerate me being depressed and not functioning well in any way. (She was never depressed and couldn’t relate at all or empathise). She took it personally, as though it reflected badly on her, and as though my illness was a personal attack against her. She made me feel so much worse, even hissing at me that God has abandoned me, so disgusted was He with my beligerent betrayal by having mental illness. (“Thanks, that’ll really help me here when I’m having thoughts of suicide”).
      My N-Mother couldn’t deal with any sadness or negative emotions, and would lash out at the person who displayed anything like those.

      I wonder if the reason that she liked animals was that she had them growing up and that they were one of the only sources of love, comfort/soothing and predictability in her childhood. She couldn’t deal with an animal’s death, and was callous and indifferent to it, paradoxically.

      1. saskia says:

        I understand you, Caroline R. I’m sorry to read that you were attacked rather than comforted and supported when you obviously needed it the most. My thought was that your mother might have associated your illness with the notion of ‘being weak’ and ‘defective’? That, as you have stated, would have reflected facets of human nature that she would rather not associate herself with.

  8. Trocadero says:

    I have a question more for other followers of this blog than for HG (but HG you can answer as well from your standpoint): how did your narcs act when you had a health issue for example? I know this article speaks a lot for itself but I would like to have more experiences shared…my narc never saw me in my sickness or when I wasn’t fully dressed up for example (we saw each other a couple of times only through work). I was always thinking how it gives him a perfect ground for fantasizing about me and how I am not sure if he would be interested in having me 24/7 in real ,not online life where I also get sick, drag around the house sometimes in my not-all-all-posh outfit etc. I think I would be constantly in keeping up the ‘standards’ and not be able to relax and share everything with him cause from all experiences I have the impression that it’s a constant agony of being perfect for these narcs. Am I right? I try to reassure myself since I have gone NC 3 months ago that I was lucky at least not to experience this kinds of moments where you start to loose your self-esteem for someone who will not give a damn loving you just the way you are,with all flaws and ups and downs.

    1. Supernova DE says:

      I have thought this exact thing so many times. Im curious what others will say that were IPPS. As I mentioned my MMRN’s wife had a serious illness and I’ve thought how awful it must have been for her to go through that, bad enough as it is, with him!

      The other day first thing in the morning my husband said to me, “You look good babe.”
      I laughed, as I still had my glasses on, no makeup, sleep mussed hair, old sweats, and probably bleary eyed since I hadn’t had coffee yet!
      I thought he was angling for sex so I said, “ Sorry but I hear that the kids are awake.”
      He responded by laughing also and “That’s not what I meant, I mean yea sex tonight would be great, but I just think you look really pretty right now.” Then he helped make breakfast and took the kids to the bus stop so I wouldn’t have to get dressed.
      Can’t imagine a moment like that with a narc!!!

      1. windstorm says:

        Supernova de
        Me neither. There are no moments like that with a narc. You should count your blessings!

      2. NarcAngel says:


        Maybe it’s just me, but I feel the simple honesty in that golden moment with your husband is a bar that no narc can reach and trumps any false golden period they could offer. Thats the stuff that sustains.

      3. Supernova DE says:

        NA and Windstorm,
        Agreed this is a golden moment, and I could recall so many more without even really having to dig. I am blessed in my marriage, but isn’t that the whole torturous cycle for me?! Ugh, why is the dopamine rush from the narc even holding a candle to it? Why did I fall prey in the first place? Why is the addiction so strong when I have everything any woman could ever ask for right in my own home??

        I realized yesterday when writing that I’ve always brushed off talk of “trauma bond” stuff because I wasn’t IPPS. I think I see, though, that I have my own version of this. I do want his comfort, even though I’m angry with him and don’t want anything to do with him, it’s such an odd feeling.

        1. NarcAngel says:

          Because you relate comfort to care and you want to think he cares about you? Its quite normal to want someone to care about you, but remember – they cannot and do not care for the reasons we want them to. That is something we manufacture to make ourselves feel better.

        2. trocadero says:

          Supernova DE, I can totally relate with what you are saying. I was experiencing some bad moments in my marriage but I think it was mostly due to the mid-life crisis and my own childhood traumas issues that I fell into the Narc’s trap. My husband is very loving and caring but I am the one who brings life in the marriage all the time, and it became exhausting…I think these are normal issues all couples experience when married for >10y but it was easier I guess to believe in soulmate crap Narc was playing on that to face the sad truth that you had your butterflies moments gone and that you need to be happy with what you have…and yes, I am NC but I still think of him every single day and have to remind myself of all that I know to get rid of this ever presence. It sucks!

      4. Valkyrie says:

        Supernova DE and trocadero,

        I can definitely relate to what you both are saying. I love my husband very much and he is a good man.

        I often wonder why I fell for it all. I hate that I betrayed my husband and I take 100% responsibility for my actions. I hate that it felt good to be with the narc and that I still think of him and crave contact.

        I am trying very hard to leave the narc in the dust. I have felt very strong feelings for narcissists in the past (before I was married) and my feelings have eventually shriveled up and died. To the point I felt tremendous relief that I got out and can’t believe I got involved in the first place. I now have zero craving for my previos narcs. I think the same thing will happen with my NX.

        I am trying to focus on my marriage and building my narc armor.

      5. Supernova DE says:

        NA, Trocadero, and Valkyrie,
        I think it is not even really wanting “comfort” from him in the traditional way. It is not wanting him to walk away. “If you are still here, I am worthy, even if you are ignoring me.” This is deep rooted stuff from my childhood.

        When he arrived on the scene I was recovering from a very bad 9 month ordeal with post partum depression and anxiety. I had to enter therapy because I didn’t want meds and my husband got nervous to leave me alone with the children at times. Through therapy, I realized a lot of my childhood issues with my mother, fear of abandonment, perfectionism leading to generalized anxiety etc. I became so much more mentally free and healthy, and emotionally distanced from my mother (which is a good thing.)

        Unfortunately, some of those issues got transferred onto narc I think, unbeknownst to me at the time. I also was dealing with being in my mid thirties, having multiple children, the usual mid life stuff.
        All of that, combined with a surge of both emotional and physical self confidence as a result of a good therapist and taming the perfectionism…..narc coming onto me…..pulling on those childhood desires….I was doomed.

        I so often look at my children, or my husband, and think, “how shitty and foolish would I feel if I lost all of this because of this total douchebag that has NPD?!” But I still haven’t managed NC for longer than 7 weeks. Problem is that I don’t feel much guilt, the dirty infidelity streak is jet black in me, apparently.

        I feel I have to look at my daughters now and instead think, “Would I ever want these precious ones putting up with this behavior, allowing someone to use them, making them question themselves, confusing them, etc.” Because of course I would fight tooth and nail to get them away from someone like that, and I should lead by example.

        1. NarcAngel says:

          SuperNova DE
          Your last paragraph says it all and I think is the best approach. Don’t accept for yourself what you would not accept for them. Yes, its an addiction and its not easy. If you had an addiction to drugs and you were in danger of having your children taken from you, you would do everything in your power to get clean. This relationship threatens your family in a similar way. You want to be able to look your children in the face and say you chose them and their happiness. Take up a thrillseeking adrenaline rush hobby like bungee jumping or climbing if you have to, but get off the high of the narc. You will have to eventually because there is no other outcome. Its best if its on your terms and before it threatens what you have. Thats my two cents.

          1. Supernova DE says:

            I wrote your entire post in my notebook, and will read it daily. Your “two cents” is worth a lot more, IMO.
            Thank you.

            I also just blocked some 50 FB profiles for all three names I know narc uses, as well as blocking the email addresses of his that I know about.

            I’m trying.

        2. Trocadero says:

          OMG Supernova DE, it’s like I had written this post!! I feel the exact same way. I thought I have finally closed the book with my narc mother,but in fact I only transferred the issue on the Narc 🙁 therapy made me realize that,but ET is a bitch. I don’t feel anxious any more like before blocking him everywhere (when I was starring at my phone all the time and making excuses for each one of his crappie moves) but I feel hollow, that’s the closest I can get to describing my current state of mind…my therapist says it’s normal since it’s a loss (of a very bad person for me,but still a loss) and that over time and by working on my childhood issues it will fade away. I fucking hope so!! And for all of us addicts,coupled with HG university,I strongly recommend a book by Howard Halpern ‘How to Break Your Addiction to a Person’. I am reading it for the 2nd time already and it explains well why we are falling for this abusive relationships at the first place.

          1. Supernova DE says:

            Thank you, I’ll get that book.
            How long were you entangled? I think I read you knew him through work, were you proximate or long distance?
            It truly is a loss, for me the hard part has been convincing myself that it’s worth the pain and withdrawals to let it slip away. And I’ve written here many times about how I don’t even like the narc, it’s the excitement and feeling desired that will be missed.
            I cannot speak to my therapist about narc, the affair, or any of it. If I could, I’m sure it would be easier for me because she knows me so well after four years.
            I am so close to NC, at least the best I can manage it in my situation. One final line of communication to be severed. Hoping I can get there soon.

          2. Trocadero says:

            Yes, we work together remotely, but not on daily basis so since I have blocked him everywhere he did a few lousy hoovers through work but I ignored them so he stopped. It will also soon be over since I am changing my job so this last available channel for hoovering will be cut off as well. My therapist says that the real addiction crisis will begin when I go completely NC bc now subconsciously I know he can still reach to me..I am ready for it although I know I will feel a definite loss. 1st one was when I decided to go NC off work,this will be the real one. We were entangled for a year ..saw each other only a couple of times and never had sex, I just couldn’t deal with red flags of him not being what I thought he was and guilt of cheating at the same time. I am at least proud of myself for having resisted although the desire was way too strong and still is in my head sometimes.

          3. Supernova DE says:

            It’s interesting that you think the withdrawals are still ahead. I’d love to hear how that turns out for you.

            I fear similar circumstances b/c I can’t go full NC – I can’t change my phone number or change my email address, it’s an affair, I can’t justify those changes without things being suspicious. As far as social media, I’ll block where I can and shut down where I can’t, no problem.

            HG has said he will try and contact through the loopholes…I just can’t see him doing that. He just doesn’t seem to give a shit about me, so I can’t see him bothering. I guess I’ll find out.

            But I’m worried that I’ll just be on constant alert, checking and checking and checking. I suppose I’ll give it my best shot, I can always consult HG if I need further advice.

            Also, I started reading (listening on audiobook) the title you recommended, and so far it is great, thank you.

          4. Trocadero says:

            I’ll keep you updated Supernova DE since it’s coming on soon. And yes,I think that the real withdrawals are yet to come. It’s just a subconscious thing..like with you,even though you know that he wouldn’t bother using those last open channels, there is still a possibility so you can never know for sure and your ET keeps you hooked up. That makes them still present in a certain way in our lives. I don’t check my phone any more for 3 months now since he has no way any more of contacting me but when on work I check if he’s online from time to time. Like it would change something. When I cut this last channel for good it will be I think like a punch in the stomach-ok,now he’s really gone,as if he had died or something. And the idea of never seeing him or hearing him ever again in my life gives me piece and a deep sorrow at the same time.

      6. Valkyrie says:

        Supernova DE, I totally understand. I tried to actively get my narc back after I found out he was with another woman. Because I felt like he didn’t want me anymore. Why wasn’t I enough? I wanted to know that he still wanted me. I wanted to not be rejected. I even tried to convince myself that we were right for each other.

        I think my NX specialized in woman who were vulnerable. The two women I spoke to that he was with, had both been in previous abusive relationships. He likes to ride in like a white knight and then once they are addicted, proceed to abuse them further. I was vulnerable for different reasons. I was a caretaker. I missed romance.

        I also think about how stupid it would have been to leave my husband for someone who treats woman like Kleenex. I think similarly, but in regards to my mother, when trying to escape. My mother was a strong woman and my heart and very loving. Would I want her to be treated the way I was treated? Would I want her with someone like my NX. The answer is a resounding no. No amount of feeling good is worth the abuse, disrespect, deceit, future faking, demeaning, selfish, destructive, immoral, cheating, lying, manipulative, secretive behaviors.

        Stay strong Supernova DE and I hope you get out permenantly. You can do it.

        1. Supernova DE says:

          Thank you.

          “Because I felt like he didn’t want me anymore. Why wasn’t I enough? I wanted to know that he still wanted me. I wanted to not be rejected.”….YES, I GET THIS!!

          My major issue with him was all the triangulation. I never put a claim on him in any way, so I never demanded he have no other “side pieces”. But I wanted to be important, I wanted my transgressions to have some kind of meaning, and for me, if he cared enough to prioritize me, then that was fulfilled. He made noises acquiescing to this when he felt they were needed to keep me bonded, but it wasn’t real of course. No idea how many IPSS he has, proximate or “virtual”. But seems clear I wasn’t the only one.

          This just niggled at all the “what can I do to be ENOUGH?” subconscious crap from my childhood, and its so insidious I didn’t see it for a loooong time.

          In the end, it’s not about them. It’s about us, it HAS TO BE, because we allowed it, and we have to figure it out to make it right within ourselves.

      7. Valkyrie says:

        Totally agree with NarcAngel

      8. Valkyrie says:

        You can do it Supernova DE. The withdrawals eventually go away. Took me years to get over them (from a different narc in the past).

        I am currently still going through withdrawals from my current NX, but I know they will fade and be gone eventually.

        The attention is nice and gives me a high, but it is not good or honest or trustworthy or any of the things I want to be. I do not want to be with a man who mistreats women.

        Keep practicing NC, eventually you will go a day without thinking of him, then a week, then a month. Then you will be at the “what was I thinking being with this a**hole stage?” and you will be free.

        xoxoxo Valk

    2. windstorm says:

      My Pretzel MnM always got angry when I was sick when we were married. He saw it as weakness. He got angry and was absolutely no help whatsoever. The opposite of help.

      Now that we are divorced, he stays more quiet, but if my sickness goes on for long, he will begin to be annoyed and make suggestions of how I should deal with it. I believe this change is because now that we are in our 60’s, he has his own health issues and is therefore better able to have cognitive empathy. Still, his cognitive empathy is limited. I have no doubt that any concern for my health is only in relation to my value as a fuel source.

    3. Valkyrie says:

      Trocadero, my narc was over the top when I got sick. Almost like he was taking care of a baby. Trying to help me walk. Me got upset when I tried to do things for myself. It was like an extension of love bombing.

      If I told him I was not feeling well when we were over the phone, he would tell me to get rest or drink water or take a bath. Kind of the same things I would say to him, like mimicking. If I didn’t take his advice, he would get angry and say fine do whatever you want, you don’t listen to me.

      But any time he wasn’t feeling well, I would say get some sleep…he would say no. I would say, drink water, he would say no. Most of the time I recommended anything, “stop smoking, drinking”, he would reply with no. Like a child saying no. I would ask why, and he would say, because he wants to get worse (sicker). He would say he doesn’t deserve happiness.” It always came across as attention seeking or him wanting to either reassure him or yell at him, I think he would have been happy with either.

      When my friend passed away, at first, he said sorry. But I could tell it annoyed him to continue nurturing me. He said he already said everything. He actually told me, “What do you want me to do? I already said sorry, do you want me to put you in the coffin with her so you can be with her?” Later in the same conversation, he said to f*** off

      He was broken inside, and the only person who can heal his broken pieces is himself. If you do crappy things and hurt people, you are not going to feel content. You are not going to feel peace. It starts from the inside out. You can’t do horrible things and expect admiration. If you get admiration, deep down you know it is for non-genuine things. Smoke and mirrors, lies.

      I think it is normal to feel resentment when care taking. But how you battle that resentment and find ways to keep strong, is a sign of character.

    4. Supernova DE says:

      I also instinctively knew that I should ensure all photos sent were perfect. Perfect angle, lighting, etc.
      Glad I never got naked in real life for him, I always felt he was the sort of person that would throw a small flaw in your face. Thank goodness he never affected that part of me, my self esteem about my body is still fully intact.

      Me: “yea I don’t know. You watch a lot of porn, I can’t exactly compete with 20 year olds whose job is to be fit and sexy…”
      MMRN: “haha don’t be crazy. I love the realness! I know your insecurities, I have mine too.”
      Me: “still not convinced. You’ll ghost me after anyway.”
      MMRN: “well, I guess that’s possible. Would it be worth it??”
      Me: “ no, probably not”

      Haha! Recalling these past convos is so therapeutic to me!

    5. mommypino says:


      I have no romantic experience with a narc to share but my experience with my mid-range elite narc half sister might give you some insight.

      When our dad was in the advanced stage of his cancer, less than months before he died, my half brother (also emotionally unavailable but not a narc, he’s a super nice guy) and my narc half sister agreed to put our dad in the care of a nursing home. This was due to the recommendation of his GP so that professionals can take care of him. I was living with our dad at that time, so I asked my brother to let me take care of our dad so that he can pass away in his beautiful Victorian home which he always took pride of. My brother agreed and arranged for Hospice caretakers and nurses to visit us regularly to help me. My narc half sister was unhappy about it and tried to convince our brother otherwise but I got my way.

      Our uncle then called my narc sister to help me take care of Dad because she doesn’t have a job and not married and doesn’t have kids therefore it should not inconvenience her that much to be with her dad in his dying days. She got really mad at him and never spoke to him again until he died.

      But she did move in with me and our dad to help (I think for façade). She was there but I did most of the work. We agreed to take turns on all-nighters but she never helped. It was still always me who got up to help. I never turned off my baby monitor even on nights that I was supposed to be resting because I couldn’t count on her. One night, it was my sister’s turn to help, I heard Dad vomiting in the baby monitor so I ran to his room to comfort him and clean up the mess. The next morning I told her what happened and she slipped and said that she did hear us. I was thinking, she heard us in her monitor and yet didn’t come to help even though it was her who should be helping.

      She bitched a lot about how euthanasia should be legal and that if she ever gets sick like our dad she would just kill herself instead of putting her loved ones in the position of having to take care of her.

      But whenever somebody would visit our dad she would act like she was the leader of the family and the major caretaker. It is funny though that our dad would tell all of them about how I am a miracle worker and that he is so lucky to have me. He would go on and on about how good I was to him.

      Also after our dad died, she would tell people about how she took care of dad in his dying days even though was unfaithful to her mom and she had to do it with his love child (me). She would even say embarrassing things that never happened like she said that she wiped our dad’s bottom just to embarrass his memory and I know that it never happened. We didn’t have to do that because the nurses and caretakers did that for us.

    6. K says:

      When I was ill as a child my mother completely ignored me. If I had died in bed, she wouldn’t have known for at least a day or two.

      My MMRN ignored me, too. I am quite self-sufficient so I wasn’t really bothered by it. Only now do I realize that I was ignored when I was sick.

      Sick or healthy, being ignored was my normal.

      1. Mercy says:

        K, that just broke my heart. I can’t imagine a mother ignoring her child like that. You are right though, something like that becomes the norm. We learn to survive and don’t even think about it as adults. I was neglected as a child but I don’t think it was intentional neglect. My mother suffered from depression and needed medical help and my father was so brainwashed by his church that he forgot he had a family. He went through the motions and took care of us kids but he was very absent. Never fully with us. I seriously didn’t think that this affected me because it wasn’t outright abuse. I’m learning now that the neglect as a child is a huge factor in my adult relationships.

      2. MB says:

        K, “ If I had died in bed, she wouldn’t have known for at least a day or two.”. That’s sad AF girl…sad AF. May those people rot in hell.

      3. K says:

        Thank you for your kind words. My mother left us home alone quite a bit and completely ignored us when she was home, except when she was being outright abusive. Narcissists abandon their children in so many ways and we don’t have a choice; we learn to survive and neglect becomes our “normal”.

        I am sorry that your mother wasn’t able to take care of you and that your father chose the church over you and your siblings. Although neglect doesn’t leave bruises or broken bones, as you know all too well, it can negatively affect you and all your future relationships in such adverse ways.

        You deserved to be loved and cared for and it is a shame that you and your siblings were treated so badly.

        1. windstorm says:

          You’re right. Neglect and abuse just become our normal. I remember as a child wondering why all the kids on TV commercials were always dressed nicely, sitting at a table eating together and acting like they were happy and liked each other. I always wondered why they made commercials so unrealistic? Why didn’t they show normal families?

          1. K says:

            No kidding. Mike from The Brady Bunch never punched out Carol, Alice or the kids and he was never drunk out of his mind. And none of the kids ever shot up, either. Plus, the house was clean and Carol wasn’t a hoarder. Totally unrealistic!

          2. windstorm says:

            Yeah, I remember the Brady Bunch. I tried watching it a couple times, but it was just so much nonsense. I stuck with Star Trek and Dr Who where there was more realism. 😝

          3. K says:

            The Brady Bunch was nonsense but I watched it anyway. I liked Star Trek, The Monkees, The Adamms Family and The Munsters, too.

          4. windstorm says:

            Me, too, K

            I loved all those programs! A few years ago I took an online quiz, “Which TV mom are you most like?” I came up Morticia Addams. Made me laugh!

          5. NarcAngel says:

            That should be sad but it made me laugh because you nailed it.

          6. K says:

            Ha ha ha…could you imagine a sitcom with our families. It could be called: Mr. Rogers’ Neighborhood Gone Rogue.

            The closest thing to my experience is Shameless (american version) and that family isn’t violent enough and it needs more drugs and alcohol, too.

        2. Mercy says:

          K, I’m sorry I’m just seeing this response. Thank you for your support. Looking into my childhood is something I’ve avoided my whole adult life.  I just always brushed it off “you lived, your fine” but now I’m upset that I waited so long because I feel like I could have avoided so many bad experiences. I  see others that have been through so much worse and it makes me feel selfish for thinking I had a bad childhood, not to mention the guilt for putting any blame on my parents.

          As you can tell I have a lot to work out and I’m only just beginning. I always hated when someone would say that I had to see the good that came out of the relationship with the narc. In my mind there was nothing good to take away. Now I see that I’m being forced to look at things I’ve avoided all my life and I recognize this is a good thing. So there is that haha.

          Thanks for listening. I can’t help but wish that my mom could have had a support group with people like you and the others here when she was my age. 

          BTW, I liked Brady Bunch but I was more of a Gilligan’s Island kid. 

      4. K says:

        It really is sad AF when you think about it. I can’t even conceive of doing to my children what my parents did to me and my siblings. I hope they rot in Hell, too.

    7. Clarece says:

      Hi Trocadero,
      With regard to asking about receiving any support during a health issue / scare with your Narc – I had two experiences with JN (the narc that brought me to this blog).
      The first happened during what was still the golden period and it was my first exposure to someone being so cold and distant over that factor, yet still maintaining strong affection and attention in all other areas. A real display of the Jekyll and Hyde persona but I had no idea I was dealing with someone lacking real empathy. Because there was an age gap between us, I chalked it up to him being immature or not knowing what to say or handle the situation so he was just being an avoider.
      The second health incident however, happened 3-1/2 years into knowing him. I was already on this blog having intermittent contact. We had already had raging fights, made up, fought more, he’d withdraw and go silent. Well, I had to go for a double breast biopsy for a possible breast cancer scare. I was terrified naturally and had to wait two weeks between the mammogram the day of the double biopsies. I reached out to him, twice, and really hoped to hear from him with some kind of solace or well wishes. Any glimmer that no matter what we have fought about, he’d never want anything like that to happen to me. The day of the procedure and driving to the hospital, I was still wishing some ping would come through on my phone being him. Sadly, I did get a notification on Snapchat that someone added me. It turned out to be another man with the same name that I had gone on 1 date with a few years prior but nothing came of it. I think he must have added that app, still had my number and tried to add me coincidentally that morning. But in that split second when I first got to the hospital and saw something from that name, I was elated and thought I’ll be able to conquer anything. Then within 2 minutes, figured out it was someone else and felt punched in the stomach, then completely numb through the whole procedure.
      I tell you what, a month later, after I healed and the prognosis was I was fine, I blew up JN’s phone with every F*ck you for every rotten thing he ever did to me. I think that’s around the time HG referred to me as a Super Tanker, as I had consulted with him about that move. I know, major taboo according to him with that being a fuel fest but I have never regretted getting that seething anger out on JN where it rightfully was deserved.
      So no, do not expect support unless it somehow will benefit them.

      1. Trocadero says:

        Such a horrible experience Clarece! I am facing some minor health issues right now and it made me think of the support I probably wouldn’t get from him if we were a couple,or at least not the genuine one. one of the first red flags I had with him (we were working together remotely) is when he made a bad joke in the seduction stage about telling to our boss how I called him in a state of rage since he is an asshole. I told him I don’t find it funny and that I will never speak to him again if he does that. He replied ‘relax,I would never do that,I know what is in MY best interest’ !?! His best interest wtf?? (Aka his seduction would fail, not that it would impact me and my job!) But what annoys me the most is that ever presence,I wish I wouldn’t fantasize any more. More the time goes by,more these bad memories fade away and leave room for making new unrealistic scenarios in my head. I am happy to be able to focus on my family again but it’s like a voice deep down inside of me whispering ‘imagine you were here with him’ and there we go again. Yuck!

        1. Clarece says:

          Ah yes, the daydreaming with filtering out the bad memories is a great escape from reality especially if you are dealing with some added health stress. But also dangerous. Your instinct is right. You would get no support and possibly even treated with annoyance for bringing it to him. Spare yourself that rejection.

      2. Valkyrie says:

        That is awful Clarece. I would be compassionate towards someone in didn’t even like going through that. Let alone someone I cared about and professed to love.

        I hope everything is well with you and you stay healthy. You deserve better. You are amazing.


  9. Supernova DE says:

    This issue is a large part of why I was discarded six months ago. I needed support and a friend due to some pretty horrible stuff going on in my extended family. He used his cognitive empathy (which seemed fake even then) and then tossed me over.
    Later it was clear he realized I wasn’t going to be able to focus on giving him admiration during this time, so obviously he had to focus elsewhere.

    Also explains why he went through a somatic phase working out like mad and commenced seduction of me while his wife was in recovery from a life threatening illness and couldn’t attend to him properly. I remember him saying multiple times, “ being sick changed her, her priorities are so different now.” Haha! At the time I was sympathetic, now I know he meant she wasn’t giving enough fuel.

  10. Mercy says:

    I think because I was conditioned to not expect support I also lost the ability to ask for help from others. I feel guilt if I ask someone to help me with something like I’m burdening them.

    1. Valkyrie says:

      Mercy, I totally get what you are saying. I am very independent. People nearly have to force help on me for me to take it.

      But we help others and they help us. If someone helps me, I actually like to be able to help out in return. I love helping people and making them feel better, even when it is hard. People who have trouble asking for help are the easiest to help because you know they have done everything possible on their own.

      You are definitely not a burden for asking for help. We all do. People also like when you ask them to do things here and there. It helps them feel constructive and helpful.

  11. glassed56 says:

    Wow! I’m blown away by everything I ‘am learning through your writings. I appreciate your candor.
    I grew up in a very dysfunctional family, believe several are naracissitic. I didn’t even what a naracissit was actually until I started googling behaviors this last year of the guy I was seeing. So I ‘m pretty sure I was married to a naracissit for close to 30 yrs and if I had known about naracissit I would have divorced him way before I did. When I would explain his comments, behaviors people would look at me in complete disbelief. So I remained silent until I couldn’t do it anymore. Sad to say, I tried taking my own life because it was that bad, ended up hospitalized and then started counseling which lead to divorcing him. Four years later after being divorced and still in court bc he refused to sign over what I was legally awarded in the divorce settlement. I finally contacted and wrote to the judge asking him to use his authority and sign the needed paperwork that my ex refused to so the financial aspects would be resolved. He obiliged. Judge told me to file contempt charges against ex so I could get my personal property that ex refuses to let me have, so I did and we are in court in December. It has been a living nightmare .
    But then to top it off the guy I was seeing last 2 yrs up until last month, pulled all stops out on me,leaving me in complete devastation. He fits every behavior and comment you write about, it just blows my mind, but then I question myself that perhaps it just seems so because I want it to be so and then can justify what went wrong in the relationship, I don’t know . He swore he has never been with anyone but myself, loves me deeply but he couldn’t handle the unresolved issues and stress left undone from my divorce. He told me it stressed him out and it wasn’t fair to him or to us as a couple that I started dating and didn’t have my divorce issues resolved. I agree but what my ex is to have to deal with has been very overwhelming and is treacherous ground for me to walk because he has threatened me so very many times, my life and he promised me that if I ever divorced him he would make my life a living hell and he has. But then when I meet this guy I was seeing, I truly believed he was the one. I was upfront from day one about working on getting divorce issues cleaned up, so he knew and he was actually very supportive and encouraging but now that its coming to its final end in the courts and I need his support he bailed. I ‘m devastated I don’t understand this. I remember a conversation between him and I and he told me that after court was done there wouldn’t be the stresses and conversations about my ex and it would be so much better for he and I. He told me he wanted our conversations to be about us, no one else. He just has been something to deal with, all of what you write about I can easily relate to how the relationship went. After finally getting the bomb the night before our big weekend I just decided it was too much.
    I did text his friend who has also trust issues with him and he has been very supportive. He told me he doesn’t want to see me get hurt but he doesn’t believe his friend, the guy I was seeing, was genuine in his feelings he professes for me because of his comments and actions towards me that he witnessed and from what we both confided in him. I believed this friend, so I texted him telling that I did deserve better and I was done dealing with his buddy not answering my calls, texts, emails and blaming me for everything that went wrong in the relationship and he could tell him that because I was done.
    So about a week later I got a text from the guy I was seeing and I ‘m confused if it is the absolute final discard from him. Can you please help me to discern if he even is a naracissit and if he has finally discarded me please? Here is what the text from him said. “Circumstances…..due to your comments and actions on your end over the last three weeks have convinced me you have moved on, so this will be my final goodbye to you. I have put your things with your 4 wheeler( at his friends place) goodbye.

    Can you please help me ? Thank you!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I can. This is a matter for a consultation owing to the detail involved.

      1. glassed56 says:

        Hi HG,
        I do need to set up a consultation soon. I did receive another text from Les on Monday morning. This is what he texted me “Every minute is a chance to turn this all around……”

        He is hovering me. Normally before I learned of yourself, I would have responded to him eagerly, thinking it would maybe work this time, but I haven’t. I have no intentions of contacting him, not after being educated by you!! Thank you for educating myself and so many others. It’s just unnerving to learn and accept that I was involved with a fake. It completely shook my whole being, and I do struggle…some days are easier then others but I ‘m a survivor and I wouldn’t let him have another minute of my time!! Thank you!

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You are welcome and you are seizing the power.

  12. flutterbymorpho says:

    Ain’t that the truth! Every sentence accurate! Every single one. This is the thing that upsets me the most.. Not angered or disgusted by this behaviour, feeling sorry for myself. It manifests in everything.. He will actually watch me struggle with physical heavy tasks that a man should be doing & helping with anyway. And yes he likes to ‘kick a man /woman when they are down’ (an expression) my male neighbours have helped me scrape ice off my car &snow after they have done their own wives.. they have given me bits of firewood when temps are freezing and he won’t chop any.. helped me pump tyres and lift heavy stuff while he sits on his arse watching tv. They show more concern when my car broke down and I was late home..He lashed out.. He also lashed out at a friend when their dad died, and told them to get over it..like he had to when his mum died. No support when I’ve been ill or faced other dilemmas,worries and upsets. When my daughter was going through a miscarriage and I was comforting her, he was like a drama queen saying he was having a heart attack and was going to drive to the hospital. Well, I knew he wasn’t so let him go, I expect he wanted me to drop everything to attend to him,leave her to take him.. Well that one didn’t work.

    1. Valkyrie says:

      Wow, flutterbymorpho, just wow. I am so sorry.

      That part about him having a heart attack and leaving your daughther…you did the right thing. I often think that narcs ask their victims to leave someone they are caring for to attend to them. It feels like some sort of sick test. That you would choose them over your conscience and someone in need.

      My narc did the same. It’s incredibly selfish and scary. You are a strong person. Keep it up. Much love to you.

      1. flutterbymorpho says:

        This post was a bit of an eye opener..I didn’t realise it was part of being a narc till I read it! Although I’ve noticed the lack of concern and all this stuff in him as I think about it often, especially when I see how other husbands and my friends are..but I didn’t know it was all part of it! I’ve only really come to know what he is in the last 3 months or so..I thought he was mentally ill..and before he got ill it was because of alcohol . I’ve spent the last 6 yrs dealing with the mental health system &docs,even got him a harley street therapist (as one lives local & did local rates instead of london ones) i could never understand why no one could help.. hes got a personality disorder they say .. they have been more worried about me than him..but that’s as far as data protection allows them to tell me? And they have told me he doesn’t get psychosis so many times..but that’s what I thought it was! They gave me a number for the local domestic abuse centre.. so I’m still all a bit confused 🙁 but getting wiser .

  13. Valkyrie says:

    I think resentment when taking care of others is normal. I think a lot of emotional burdens are placed on caregivers that is why they have to self-care as well.

    I once went to therapy to ask why I was so angry and frustrated when asked to do things as a caregiver. I loved the person deeply, my mother, more than anything in the world. I wanted to be able to help her without feeling irritated. I tried very hard not to express any negative emotions to helping. It was not her fault. She needed care. She was a very strong person and asked for very little. My only regret is not giving more. Not being stronger. Not doing more.

    I was told that my reaction was normal. That I was trying to be independent, but at the same time, she was like a dependent. Although it was nice to hear I was normal and not a terrible person, I have learned a few more lessons on taking care of others.

    1. Take care of yourself. It is hard to pour from an empty pitcher.
    2. Humor. You have to be able to laugh and still be of good cheer.
    3. Talk to others. Close friends or join a care giver groups.
    4. Keep a level head. Try to understand what the other person is going through. They will have strong emotions too. Often they feel out of control and will start trying to control what they can. This is normal.
    5. Sometimes they just need love and to hear someone is there for them.

    I still struggle to balance it all. But it is normal to want to throw your hands up. I have stuck it through these times and the people I care for have gotten much better. Even when you want to quit, feel irritated, question if you are helping the situation…regroup, self-care, laugh, give yourself a break, vent to friends, and get back in there and help.

    Hugs to all the caregivers out there.

  14. kelfairly says:

    Great article! It helps me paint narcissists as black and white so I can get along with them much easier, and unemotionally.

  15. Chablita says:

    Hahaha! This cracks me up! And the picture here is perfect! One of the first signs I had that my bf was a narc was when we were hiking in snow. I tripped and did a face plant about 20 feet from him. He didn’t bother to come over and ask if I needed help. He stood there and said “what are you doing?” Yeah, zero empathy.

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