Surely That’s The End, Yes?
“I have not heard from him in a month, he has moved on hasn’t he?”
“I exposed what she is like to all of her family, she won’t be contacting me again that’s for sure.”
“I told him I know what he is and he disappeared so I doubt I will hear from him again.”
“He is with somebody else already so I guess he won’t want me again will he?”
“I told him what I thought of him and he just backed off. He won’t hoover me will he?”
“He came crying back to me and I gave him short shrift. I doubt he will bother again.”
Wrong.
There are many different scenarios and outcomes involving our kind where the victim considers that our kind will not bother with them again post discard or post escape. The victim thinks that a period of total silence, the involvement of the narcissist with a new victim, the manner in which the relationship ended will all mean that the narcissist will not come sniffing around the victim ever again.
We will.
Why is this the case?
Firstly, you must understand our perspective. You belong to us. You are our appliance. You are our property. The Formal Relationship between us may have ended but the Narcissistic Relationship is forever. It only ends when either you or I cease to draw breath. It does not matter that we enter into a new Formal Relationship with somebody else. It does not matter if you do. It does not matter that world war three erupted when we parted company. It does not matter if there has been complete silence for two years. None of these factors alter the fact that in our minds the connection between you and I because of the Narcissistic Relationship lasts until one of us dies.
Secondly, the attraction of gathering fuel from you is substantial and this is the prime driver for never letting go. Fuel is so important to us that it drives everything about behaviour and the link between you and I is no exception to the all-pervasive power of fuel.
Thirdly, factors such as new partners, the effluxion of time and the manner in which the Formal Relationship has ended are immaterial.
I am repeatedly asked by people whether a hoover will happen. I always answer the same; the risk always remains, but you can manage that risk. People set out the circumstances of the end of the Formal Relationship to me and what has happened since (if anything) and ask whether a hoover will happen, or express their view that they do not think it will happen because of a, b or c. My answer again is the same; the risk of us returning always remains, but you can manage that risk.
It is never the end. There is always a risk, a chance, a probability (or a possibility) that we will return to you and apply a hoover. You cannot assume that it is over. No matter how much it may seem that it is over, no matter how much it may appear to you that we will not come back, that we apparently have no reason to do so, such assumptions are dangerous. There are only two factors which are material to the issue of whether you will be hoovered again.
The first factor is the Hoover Trigger. For a hoover to happen potentially, it must first be triggered. This means that you must come into our sights, that we sniff the prospective fuel that leaks from you, that something happens to cause you to come up on our radar. Whether this happens depends on whether you enter one of the six spheres of influence. I have written separately about them in The Spheres of Influence (And What You Can Do About Them) in another article. I will not repeat its content other than to state that
- You have control over whether you enter any of the first five spheres of influence; and
- You have no control over whether you enter the sixth sphere of influence.
By staying away from us through no contact you will not enter the first five spheres. The sixth sphere is when we happen to think of you. Thus, if you have successfully implemented no contact the only risk of a trigger being activated is if we happen to think of you. You cannot influence that. Our preoccupation with your replacement means we are far less likely to think of you and hoovers are triggered by you doing something to enter the first five spheres, such as messaging us or passing where we live.
If you maintain no contact the first five spheres will not be entered. It then just depends on whether we happen to think of you. This may not happen for weeks or months. You can therefore see that by staying out of the first five spheres you will vastly reduce the risk of a Hoover Trigger being activated but you cannot state that it will never happen as it is reliant on if we happen to think of you. That may just be a random occurrence or it might be because we see something that reminds us of you.
The second factor is only applicable if the Hoover Trigger has been activated. The second factor is concerns the Hoover Criteria. These criteria include such matters as: –
– Whether you are a potent source of fuel;
– Whether you can easily be located;
– Whether you can easily be contacted;
– Whether you have your defences maintained concerning us;
– Whether you remain mired in the emotional sea;
– What support networks you have in place;
– How well fuelled we are;
– The nature of the narcissist who you entangled with (Lesser, Mid-Range or Greater); and
– Potential obstacles
All of these matters combine to determine whether it is worthwhile us expending our energy to act on the Hoover Trigger. If we are presented with a sitting target, flowing with fuel, caught in the emotional sea, isolated and exposed then the criteria point heavily to the fact that a hoover will now take place. If on the other hand it is very hard to contact you, we know you have stopped flowing with fuel when dealing with us, you have people who will stop us trying to reach you and so forth, you become a Flawed Reason to Extract Emotion (F.R.E.E.).
For a worked example of how this can happen if someone enters the first sphere of influence I recommend that you read the article Hoover Time! Sphere One.
Accordingly, if you can do everything possible to become a F.R.E.E. then even if Hoover Trigger is activated then the chances of us executing that hoover will be considerably reduced. By contrast, if you fail to attain becoming a F.R.E.E. then you run the risk of a hoover being executed.
You will note that in the hoover criteria above there is no mention of the gap between when we last contacted you and the current time. There is no mention of the circumstances in which we parted company as the Formal Relationship. There is no mention of you knowing what we are, whether you told us, whether you exposed our abuses to others. Those are not factors which concern us. The existence of a new partner is not relevant either in isolation, but is only a partial consideration in terms of whether that person might stop us. Of course even if they might do so and all the other factors point to the execution of a hoover, this one criterion has diminished relevance.
Accordingly, when you are asking yourself whether a hoover may happen. Remember this.
- You can never say never.
- There needs to be a Hoover Trigger. You can significantly influence whether there is one and reduce the risk but you cannot remove it.
- The Hoover Criteria need to be met. Again, you can significantly influence whether the criteria are met by becoming a F.R.E.E. and reduce the risk, but you cannot remove it.
The issue of whether you will experience a hoover is not completely in your hands, but is far more within your control than you might at first have thought.
It is never the end but you are not helpless.
23 thoughts on “Surely That’s The End, Yes?”
Vent Your Spleen! (Please see the Rules in Formal Info)
This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.
A happy coincidence will result in a reunion with some of the mutual friends I shared with Narc Friend. On the bright side, I am really thrilled to see these ladies again and there is something redemptive in the fact that Narc Friend isn’t required to have that connection. On the other hand, sixth sphere, here I come . . .
I don’t know where to post this, but I am totally miserable again.
I’ve been dating someone new for 3 months and I ended the relationship yesterday, because I thought he is a narc too..
I don’t know if I am paranoid. I see narcs everywhere…
I think I got some red flags in the beginning but I am not sure…
Some insight from you guys would be highly appreciated.
In the beginning when we started dating with this guy, I told him I recently broke up with someone I loved very much, surprisingly he was aware of narcissism and I told him that my ex boyfriend was a narc. I told him I go to therapy, I had PTSD, etc… and it is very difficult for me to open up myself again. He seemed understanding. Many times he told me he knew how I feel and that he still wants to continue seeing me.
One evening, at the very beginning, for example, he wanted me to go to his place, but I was not ready and told him no… We were having dinner in a restaurant and after my “no”, he went totally silent… After we finished the dinner, we went out and I started asking him what’s wrong, etc… I asked him what expectations he had about me, because I wanted to make it clear and he lashed out and raised his voice how can I ask him such things, how offensive that is, wasn’t it clear, etc… I felt so bad about this sudden outburst (normally he is a very quiet guy), that I broke in tears after I left.
I told him later that it was hurtful how he reacted and totally unexpected.He apologized. I decided to give it another try, it must be me, not him, it was not a red flag so we went on..
Now, 3 months later, I noticed other strange behavior.
He is very sensitive to criticism, tends to sulk whenever I have other plans and can’t be with him.
Recently he started complaining that I don’t open up myself, I don’t share enough… ( We discussed many times that I’m still healing from my past relationship and it will take time, and he agreed on these “terms” ).
We spent New Year’s together with him and some friends and it was quite shitty, we exchanged only a few sentences during the whole evening, the next day I told him that I felt alone and something is not okay and he said he also felt that way and that maybe we should speak and share more and spend more time together.
Ok, the next day I decided to start a new page and invited him over to my place. He read my message and didn’t reply for 5 hours, in the meantime he was active each 20 minutes.
Since I didn’t receive an answer, I just had this familiar feeling that something is coming and I was right.
After 5 hours, he eventually responded ” Maybe another time”.
I wrote him ” I see. I’m tired of your sulking, do it to someone else” and he said ” I just have a bad and busy day at work. You know better”.
I felt this sounded way too familiar and I told him that, yes,I know what I do not need, and that his behavior speaks enough for me and I got the message. Bye and all the best. Which was my “break up line”.
He didn’t respond. Not a single word. 1 day and a half.
We work in the same company and I saw him today and nothing, no hello, pure nothing.
I really thought he cared about me and I don’t know what to think anymore. Do I just see narcs everywhere and fuck up everything myself or should I trust my senses that something is wrong with the guy and maybe he is a narc too…
Ema
Who cares if hes a narc or not – HE’S A DRAG! No need to figure it out. You’re not happy. Next!
Dear NarcAngel,
I’m with you
(What a dipstick…goes in the too hard basket)
Next 🤣🤣
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Ema
I am confident that he is a narc. That was awful and I am sorry you had to go through that. They are everywhere; it isn’t you and I have the same problem too.
Ema
I agree with NarcAngel. You are dating, trying to find someone who meets your needs. He is not, so you should drop him and keep looking.
ugh Ema, after all I’ve learned, I would be feeling the same in your situation. But like NA said, there’s enough red flags showing he’s not a good match so you’ve done the right thing by cutting your losses. No need to try and solve the puzzle here. Hopefully he can be mature enough to at least show professionalism at work!
Thank you for the opinions!
I was just not sure if I should have had more patience, if it was me and my paranoia of being with another N, seeing imaginary red flags everywhere…
Nevertheless, there were some similarities with my ex. My ex MRN claimed he loved dogs but while we were living together he couldn’t stand my dog and even beat him up few times.
He was standing like a tree when the dog greeted him at the door, never touched him, never said anything nice to him.
This guy, too, said he loved dogs and he reacted exactly the same when coming to my place and my dog was happy to see him, licking his hands, jumping on him.
Surely it is not the dog, right..
The silent treatment is a fact too and I did not imagine that.
Talking bad about women he used to date… How awful they were.
He might not be a narcissist, but he most definitely reminded me a lot of my ex and I just couldn’t…
The thing is, I am kind of hopeless that I will ever meet someone decent and be able to feel something.
I am still in love with my N…Took me 6 months to admit it to myself. I try to move on, but it is not easy.
I forgave him. I don’t want him back. But this love… obsession, whatever… still here.
Ema, I can totally understand how you are feeling. I think once you understand narcissism you see it everywhere and that’s because it is everywhere not because we are paranoid. However I think the struggle for us is that we always have to understand everything and want to fix or i would also suggest see if people will try to fight for a relationship with us , do they care enough to try and sort this out and if they don’t we then take another hit to our self worth. Whether he’s a narcissist or not , already it’s not working it’s already hard work and problematic to that’s enough to say this isn’t bringing anything positive to my life and just let it go. You don’t need to know if he’s a narcissist . However be careful because you work with him and you could get sucked back into this, just keep your boundaries in place.
Ema, It sounds like you were right to end that relationship. At least you ended it after three MONTHS rather than three YEARS! This means you’ve already learned so much from HG.
Maybe you are still a Sitting Target for narcs. Perhaps it takes time and practice to be a Narc-Deterrent. Keep on working at the latter and your Real Good Guy will be attracted to you soon enough.
Ema, I think that he’s a narc. You got all kinds of silent treatments whenever he didn’t get his way. A normal person wouldn’t pressure you to do anything that you are not ready for. Don’t let it get you down. The fact that you recognized the red flags means you are better armed to date and find a more lasting and healthy relationship with someone who is not a narcissist. Narcissists are everywhere but they are just a minority.
I really appreciate your feedback.
Yes, I did learn a lot from HG and all of you here, I’m usually writing only when it gets tough, but I continue reading everything.
I know many of you have the same problem and see narcissists everywhere.
I was thinking about doing the Narc Detector with HG, but then I thought it’s over anyways, the guy is not worth the money, just to prove to myself that I was right or if not, then self pity how stupid and paranoid I am.
@lisa, I very much resonate with what you wrote, that we want to see if people will try to fight for a relationship with us, if they care enough…
Not that I was madly in love with this guy, but it is still a hit to my self worth. I liked him and thought we could be a good match and I could probably have feelings for him in the future.
Another lesson learned.. but I am getting tired.
I’m 32 and I when I was with my ex MRN, I believed with every cell of my being that he’s the man I’m going to marry,have his children and a wonderful family together, a beautiful life /lie/.
After the relationship ended, I thought life was over for me.
I somehow managed to emerge from the abyss and even dated again, wow, hats off. A few months ago, I couldn’t even think about touching another man, but I did it, and no matter how stupid it sounds, I am proud of myself.
Unfortunately that was another disappointment.
It was so freaking difficult to open up myself even for a random chat, the first days when we started texting each other, I was crying like an idiot, because the wound was so fresh.
I was terrified to kiss, have sex… but with baby steps, I did it.
He can’t imagine the struggle for me.
Narc or not, he definitely did not care.
HG,
How do narcissists see the difference in IPSSes, if they do see a difference? For example, is an IPSS one night stand the same as an IPSS treated like a relationship but does not become IPPS?
If, when, one escapes or is disengaged, is there more likely to be Hoover criteria for one versus another? Or does it just depend on the person and not as much the relationship?
A one night stand is an IPTS.
The place you occupy in the fuel matrix is one of many criteria within the HEC – my forthcoming book will expand on this for you.
Thank you for your response and the correction! That makes much more sense than what I was thinking. Sorry!
I look forward to the book!
You are welcome.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Even if this entire blog and all the books were nothing more than pure brilliant fiction, there is so much truth to what you are saying (any victim knows this) and such an enormous implication for humanity that it deserves a sincere thank you. I have now read most of the books and successfully implemented No Contact, able to compartmentalize for the occasional instances where work brings me into a sphere of influence. The inevitable Hoover arrives like clockwork but I know now and I’m out. I never could form a real bond to anyone or feel attachment to anything because of my childhood – this is the only reason I could escape and the only reason I get so excited reading your books. An evil smile creeps across my face because I wasn’t outsmarted after all.
WW, Sometimes I, too, wonder if all this HG stuff is fiction, if someone else who has real empathy is making this all up in order to better and truly help the empaths, especially since empaths tend to listen to narcs over and above everyone else.
Like you, I don’t really care if this is the Truth or some kind of Grand Dupe. I only care that there is much truth in the blog posts, and also much healthy and constructive sharing among the blog’s empaths.
We run into so many narcissist’s and I think there’s a lot of people today that don’t have the actual disorder, but do have high levels of narcissism by way of self-centeredness but not the rest of it. Those people may also be manipulative but don’t have the extreme personality traits of an actual narcissist.
We’re all about our careers, being top achievers, recognition, awards, money, competition, outshining the other. Kardashian’s plastic gigantic circus butts, Mariah trims her tree in her negligee with her child, #metoo with celebrities boobs half exposed. Gotta keep up with all that, you’re sexy too, you’re a winner.
Narcissism-like traits is pop-culture now, it’s the latest trend. People bought pet rocks too.
How does the narcissist detect the fuel?
Why do we put eyes of degollado lamb? Spanish expression to express a look of in love.
Lately, I wanted revenge and I have deliberately entered a danger zone. This, after 15 years of zero contact. To criticize and devalue it, and looks at me with a bad look.
I guess you don’t need to talk, I’m his walking critic. (I’m a reminder to him that we were once linked.)
Today I’m rethinking whether this is a good idea or not.
Because first of all, what good is revenge and more after 15 years?
It is like a small thorn, to remove it and give me pleasure.
I fell in love with a beautiful illusion everything has to be said. Of which, at present, nothing remains and therefore does not exist. Rather, it never existed, because it was an illusion. A mirage. A ghost that disappeared.
I’m not interested either, really.
I am interested in the subject, because I could not get it out of my head, he came and went during all this time, he appeared in my mind at any time through songs, smells, places ………. The famous omnipresence.
I couldn’t get it out of me.
But a month ago I kept in my hands a book by H.G TUDOR and I read almost all his books. As in the video of the secret book, crazy reading book, book after book … And a light came to me…
I really have some left to read but they are few, I devoured the books worse than the devoration of any narcissist.
So an anxiety that accompanied me punctually in those moments disappeared, by magic.
Now I can go out and come in and even stand in front of it and not feel a strange fear, like post traumatic.
I think that if I’m not cured, I’m almost there.
But revenge rounds my mind many times…
Now what is your advice:
I call him on the phone for a coffee. (mysteriously I still remember the memory phone number)
When I come across him, I congratulate him on these dates… A smile and a look in love
I throw a stone in his head to attract his emotional attention.
jajajajajaj.
Or I ignore it…
I think that the latter is the right choice in these cases. pue is a criticism of the… that will hurt him more than any word.
I’m laughing like never before, writing these comments…
J.G
Narcissists operate through instinct.
https://narcsite.com/2018/12/07/scenting-blood-8/
https://narcsite.com/2018/10/26/prey-9/
J.G.,
You certainly express yourself beautifully.
“How does the narcissist detect the fuel?
Why do we put eyes of degollado lamb? Spanish expression to express a look of in love.”
You describe ‘eyes of degollado lamb’ as a look of love – and I know what is meant by that but when I googled “degollado lamb” I got something more like: ‘eyes of a lamb at slaughter.’
That’s pretty apt.
On the subject of revenge – I used to think that I wanted revenge on my narc…but that would still be him keeping my focus on *him* – and not me.
Now, I simply want to focus on me…and heal…and move on with my life.
Best wishes with moving on with yours J.G.