Empath Detector

KTN Empath Detector

Understanding the relevant school and cadre of empath that you belong to is an integral part of arming yourself so that you effect a GOSO Campaign (Get Out, Stay Out) with the maximum effectiveness.

Recognising where you belong with regard to one of the four schools of empath and then the relevant cadre not only aids you in learning more about yourself and how your school and cadre attracts particular narcissists, it will weaponise you in your quest to GOSO and also assist you in evading narcissists in the future.

This consultation is conducted through the provision of a protocol which is straightforward and provides confidentiality between the parties. A questionnaire is provided which elicits a broad range of information about you and your behaviours to enable me to then analyse your responses and provide you with an accurate and easy to understand response through an audio sound file.

Ensuring you know what you are means you will avoid the mistakes that occur with self-analysis through lacking objectivity. It will ensure you do not embark on courses of action which are suited to different schools and it also enables you to plug the gaps in your own defences and achieve GOSO sooner and with less effort.


  1. Please effect payment using the PayPal button below. Your financial details are not seen. The fee is just US $ 100.
  2. You will then be sent the Common Sense Protocol and the Empath Detector Questionnaire.
  3. You complete the Empath Questionnaire and e-mail this to narcissist1909@gmail.com . Please keep your response to 1200 words and under. If you need to exceed this you can obtain additional word bundles at US $ 40 per 500 words required to cover the additional reading and consideration time. Please advise if you require this in addition.
  4. I will analyse your information and then provide you with your school and cadre of empath with explanation within 96 hours of receipt of the questionnaire through a report identifying the relevant elements applicable to your school and cadre and determining your prevailing school and prevailing cadre, based on the answers and information that you have provided..

If you have any further questions about the consultation, do e-mail me at narcissist1909@gmail.com to learn more.

Empath Detector


372 thoughts on “Empath Detector

  1. Narc noob says:

    Evening HG, what are some “courses of action” that are applicable to some schools and not others? I thought you advised NC, period. Did I miss a memo?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I do advocate NC. It means you avoid taking incorrect courses of action which are relevant to certain schools of empath.

  2. Jay Arel says:

    I love my gift, even on the days when it gets to much, its just so frustrating to find honest people to interact with. Im a loner introvert who lings to connect with others, only problems being is that I find my generation can not even entertain a debate, chat without being bloody inhumane. I want to live everyone but at the same time I want to escape the planet because I feel most humans are set at default settings. Being an empath in a world full of angry negative souls who will never see soul progression. P. S. I love my gift.

    1. FYC says:

      Hello Jay, I hope you will remain on the blog as you will find what you seek here. KTN offers you unparalleled insight in to the dynamics that exist between N and E (and normal) relations, communications, and motivations. Knowing the drivers behind each person’s perspective will help you feel at peace with your own positions and perspective. This blog community also affords you the opportunity to engage (to your comfort level) with many other empaths who care just as you do, and they will support and encourage your contributions. I am happy to hear you have embraced your gift of empathy and hope you find your voice here on the blog. Welcome to KTN.

  3. K says:

    This is a really good article and it may answer some of your questions.


  4. Cloudy says:


    Is there a difference between
    Empathic vs Empath?

    1. HG Tudor says:


      1. Cloudy says:


        Can you give me some knowledge & example of the difference

        Thank You

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Read the article The Empathy Cake and also use the AP Understanding Emotional Empathy.

          1. Cloudy says:

            Great article

          2. Cloudy says:


            My partner is a mid range and does think they are E.E

            Knowledge is Power!

  5. Emma says:

    HG, suppose a mid range narcissists believes they are an empath and they request an empath detector test because they want to know what empath school and cadre they are, what do you tell them? It would be pointless to tell them they are a narcissist right?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I would tell them they are not an empath.

      1. MommyPino says:

        HG, if you say they are not Empath’s it can either mean they are Normals or Narcissists?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          or narcissistic.

          1. Dorion says:

            What is the difference between normal and narcissistic? Is it like what is described as normal is more in the middle of the spectrum but would not meet NPD? Is there a definable distinction though? Also, I guess, using similar logic, there should be an “empathic” range as well on the other side? I’m trying to determine where I might fit in this system.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Somebody who is normal has both narcissistic and empathic traits, however, the narcissistic traits are fewer and less strong and the emotional empathy is limited in radius (but not amount for those in that radius). If you want to understand more about this and also where you fit, I recommend that you organise an empath detector test and then follow up with an audio consultation so I can explain the spectrum and how it works, to you, in greater detail.

          3. MommyPino says:

            Thank you HG!!

          4. Whitney says:

            Or Empathic but not an Empath? 😊

          5. HG Tudor says:


  6. Pingback: Empath Detector ⋆ NarcTopia
  7. EmP says:

    Violetta, I am impressed! And the song fits perfectly. I believe HG mentions the need of MRNs to make you their ‘project’ in one of his articles (I can’t remember which one).

    1. Violetta says:

      I’ve met way too many of them. My “best friend” in Jr. High was of that ilk.

      She tried to reconnect with me when I was in college. I caught her in an outright lie about her cooler-than-thou life, which suddenly made me wonder about all those cooler-than-thou experiences she’d told me about in Jr High.

      Instead of confronting her, I suddenly thought, “Get off the phone. Get off the phone NOW.” I found a feeble excuse, she promised we must talk some more some time, and never contacted me again. (Thank God and Cthulhu and anybody else who wants to take credit.)

      1. EmP says:

        Violetta, those people both annoy me and make me anxious. They cling on to you like a leech, want to do nice things for you, sort out all your problems, and, hey, they know you better than you know yourself. To be avoided at all costs!

        1. Violetta says:

          And they will sabotage you every way they can, all in the name of “helping.”

    2. K says:

      Bingo EmP!
      That’s exactly what I thought when I read Violetta’s comment about the song “Popular”.


      1. EmP says:

        K ‘The Archivist’ strikes again!

        1. K says:

          Ha ha ha…damn Skippy!

      2. Violetta says:

        K, someday HG should either hire you professionally or allow you to contribute Angel Assistance points in return for setting up an official index of articles alphabetized by title or organized by subject, rather than date. You are FABULOUS. I’ve only been reading regularly for a few months, and sometimes I can’t remember where I saw that interesting comment or a disturbing but important piece of information last week.

        1. Renarde says:

          K is fabulous. And she’s had my back a few times.

          Love ya, K!

          1. K says:

            Thank you Renarde!

            Love ya, too!!!

          2. Renarde says:


            Aww sweetie x

            Jesus Christ. I’m depressed this morning. What must people think of us?

          3. K says:

            Don’t worry about what people think of us, whatever it is, that’s their problem not ours. Here’s a joke to cheer you up.

            How did Darth Vader know what Luke got him for Christmas?

            He could feel his presents.

            Keep reading and posting your way through the depression; that may help resolve it.

          4. Renarde says:


            You’ll laugh at this.

            Just went to the shop and the bloody self service till keeps playing silly buggers. Irritating beyond belief. You know.

            Woman who is paying at the proper till catches my chuntering and sympathised. Then HER card is rejected and suddenly the employee is doing everything.

            Exasperated, I said, ‘Ahh well, I put a Gypsy curse on this shop’.

            The look on her face was priceless. She genuinely believed I’d done it. I should point out that I’m running the visual ‘Rom-Lite’ program.

            I reassure her it was a joke and lo! Everything started working!

            But that wasnt the only oddness I encountered. There was a woman. She had one leg. I watched her struggle with the basket. It’s so difficult to know when to step in and help or respect peoples independence. Anyway, she clocked I’d seen her and as I turned away she let out this exaggerated groan. Then she asked me to take her basket to the till. Which I did. Gladly. But she manipulated me. Why?

            All she needed to say was, ‘Can you help?’. I would’ve made it my privilege to have helped her totally.

            Eventually, we are ALL now congregating at the till. Then something else happened.

            There are a couple of back room staff who appear to do fuck all apart from hang around gossiping in hi-vis.

            One of those ‘lumps’ then said she would help the disabled woman. I was a bit shocked by that actually. That’ll teach me.

            Anyway, I guess the electrical disturbance is me because I’ve just had part of my electrical ring go down. I’ve had an overload, I think. Bugger. I don’t think I have a 13 amp fuse.


          5. K says:

            You are a Narc Magnet; you attract all types of people and always will. She asked you to take her basket to the till because she knew you would; instinct.

            I try to avoid all lumps, slugs and sloths.

        2. K says:

          Thank you Violetta!
          Ha ha ha… I like to help out whenever I can. I am a volunteer librarian so it’s nice to put myself to work here and lend a hand; it keeps me out of trouble and on my toes.

          I am glad you think I am fabulous, my narc family isn’t too thrilled with me.

          1. Violetta says:

            Can you get away from your narc family?
            I don’t know what you do for a living, but with a memory like yours, you sound like the ideal Library Science major. Your narc family may not value, but some university libraries would be screaming to get you.

          2. K says:

            I moved out when I was 19 and never looked back. According to my Empath sister, my mother wonders why I won’t socialize with anyone in the family.

            Recently, one of the Liberian’s asked if I had a library science degree, alas, I do not. They would have hired me if I did, though. The Library staff values me more than my parents ever did!

          3. Kim e says:

            K. I value you. And I am not even family 😀❤️

          4. K says:

            Awww…thank you, Kim e!
            Ha ha ha…you made my morning.

          5. Violetta says:

            See if you can get some kind of funding or work study. Some companies will pay for professional certification, if they think you have potential.

            Another possibility is get a job in publishing. Good indexers are hard to find.

            You have a phenomenal brain. Use it and benefit from it.

          6. K says:

            Thank you Violetta!
            Ha ha ha…my Lessers certainly didn’t have a high opinion, quite the opposite actually, re: my brain. Indexer sounds like something I might enjoy.

  8. EmP says:

    Lorelei, not sure if your question has already been addressed by someone else but GPD stands for Genetic PreDisposition.

    Nothing to do with Gallons Per Day – or Gotham Police Department – as the internet suggests..

  9. NotMe! says:

    EmP, I’ve noticed that the dyadic dynamic between N and E runs throughout HG’s work and believe it’s part of what sets it apart from others. It was a difficult pill to swallow initially for me and really pissed me off. But, as you say, others talk about co-dependence and I could not relate to that at all. Unlike some commenters here, I don’t think I’ve had a string of relationships with Narcs, I have been addicted to people before but have never felt manipulated, exploited or controlled in this way before and if I was unhappy, I just left them. He caught me at a low ebb, another reason I think our empathic ‘output’ changes over time. I fully expect HG to point out that this is ET but I’m that way out today

    1. EmP says:

      NotMe It was such a relief to learn about the two sides of the coin, about narcissists and about ME!!

      Narcissists have been my curse from the cradle. I was raised by two, my sister is a narcissist, so are the majority my aunts and uncles and three of my grandparents were narcissists too. Not to talk about the long list of romantic partners I have been involved with – some longer than others. I am currently NC with all of them (and the dead ones have released me, of course..).

      How useful has it been to find out about the way I FUNCTION and REACT and RESPOND to things and people and why I ATTRACT narcissists and WHY they do what they do – even if it’s still difficult to accept, I’m not going to lie.

      Reading the list of DSM criteria for NPD is pretty much useless. How does that apply to my life? That is the important part. Plus, the DSM list is incomplete, as there is no reference to the need for NEGATIVE emotional reactions from victims, for example. The concept of ‘negative fuel’ has been a true eye-opener for me.

      Also, had everyone explained manipulations techniques and how to counter them? I don’t think so. Which reminds me, if you haven’t bought ‘Escape’ already, I recommend you do so. You (and everyone else) need that book.

      It’s very, very, very unfortunate that support forums for ACONs do not allow you to refer other members to HG’s work. I tried to and I was warned by the moderators.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Those moderators are either misguided or idiots.

        You are correct with regard to the DSM. It will not help people recognise how their own situation is one whereby they are ensnared and will not assist them in escaping either.

      2. K says:

        Unbelievable and shortsighted.

        1. EmP says:

          Yes, it makes me really sad. I read so many horror stories on there and I obviously give my own little piece of advice, but those people would benefit so much from reading (or consulting with) HG and just can’t because ‘the moderators say so’.

          1. K says:

            Talk about control freaks! It kills me to think that these people could get all their answers on narcsite but they are being denied that opportunity. It’s just crazy.

          2. EmP says:

            K, I keep envisioning a ‘Knowing the Narcissist’ documentary series on Netflix.
            Maybe one day..

          3. K says:

            That would be awesome!

          4. E. B. says:

            Exactly. I felt frustrated not being able to help because survivors keep asking questions which have been answered either on this blog or in his books. The answers are here.

          5. K says:

            E. B.
            Comments like yours and EmP’s make me think that the world is going mad. To witness that and be unable to recommend narcsite must be the epitome of frustration and helplessness. Those people need to be here.

          6. E. B. says:

            “To witness and that and be unable to recommend narcsite must be the epitome of frustration and helplessness”

            It is. There are women in relationships with violent Lessers. They want to escape. Their safety is at risk. They also ask how to deal with them when there are children involved. Truly empathic moderators are open and want to help people the best they can. They would not want to delete posts preventing members to find answers and help in HG’s work. If they haven’t heard from him yet which is extremely rare, they will find positive testimonials and book reviews. If those moderators were genuine victims, they would realize how important it is for victims to find someone who really knows how narcissists think and what to expect.

            People who are not perceived as a threat by the narcissist in the group will never be able to see through the narcissist’s façade. This happens in all groups with at least one narcissist in it.

          7. HG Tudor says:


          8. E. B. says:

            Thank you.

          9. K says:

            E. B.
            Denying people the opportunity to know about HG’s work displays an utter lack of emotional empathy for the children and the adults in these relationships, and you are correct re: those who are unable to see through the facade. I think The facade is the ultimate manipulation because it fools so many people.

          10. E. B. says:

            Speaking about façade… Today I heard on the news that Operation Christmas Child has been cancelled in a particular town. Some donors fill the shoeboxes with used items (dirty washcloths) and broken toys (a car with 3 wheels). They said that shoeboxes are nicely wrapped (thus closed) by ‘ladies of the community’ who bring those gifts to the charity organization in person. The two radio moderators went “But Who does such a thing?? WHYYY??”

            After that they spoke about another organization which helps victims of hate groups. They said that once an individual becomes a target, also family members are targeted by the mob, including their children. I know from my own experience that this is true. The organization recommends targets to go to the police. They also said the police may not take them seriously. This is also true and it can get worse when a police officer belongs to the hate group. Then again, “But WHO would do that? Whyyy??”

            Unless these two radio moderators live deep in a forest isolated from civilization, it is impossible to go through life and never meet the ‘honourable’ female MRN of the community or a bully in their social network.

          11. HG Tudor says:

            Valid observations about the female MRN.

          12. K says:

            E. B.
            That’s bad. The Radio announcers need to read: https://narcsite.com/2017/01/30/but-why-2/
            I knew a LMRN female who volunteered at a school function and looted the Christmas donations for herself; I was completely baffled by her behaviour! Not anymore, now I know why.

            I am not a fan of the police, when I was growing up, many of them were Dirty and hid behind the facade of law enforcement. I do not trust the police and many of them are lazy idiots and I would advise against going to the police for protection. It’s better to lie low or disappear.

            Female MRNs are ubiquitous and they are easier to spot once you learn to recognize the manipulations.

          13. E. B. says:

            I used to know someone who stole some of the donated items. A nun!
            I totally agree with you about the police. They have power and can engage in different illegal activities. They can ruin your life and get away with it. Apart from ignoring all their hoovers and ignoring them, showing that you are not afraid of them is VERY important. It can be life-saving. They do not expect it at all. They expect you to fear them and be submissive.

          14. Sweetest Perfection says:

            The Robin Hood nun, robbing the rich to give to the poor…

          15. E. B. says:

            Haha – for sure!

          16. EmP says:

            Beware the nuns

          17. Sweetest Perfection says:

            … of March! Those are the worst nuns.

          18. EmP says:

            SP, no offence but I say all of them! My Nmother was raised by nuns – so I can tell you for sure they are not good influence.

          19. Sweetest Perfection says:

            EmP, I was just paraphrasing a quote by Shakespeare in Julius Caesar. I was raised by nuns too; one of them hit me with a ruler once. But I don’t have very bad memories about them, some were better than others. Some could be very cruel though.

          20. EmP says:

            SP, sorry, I did not get the reference! You girls are an educated bunch, I like that.
            As far as nuns are concerned, I am sure there good ones and bad ones. Based on my personal experience though, I would say the bad ones outnumber the good ones.

          21. K says:

            When I was in third grade Sister Mary Fucking Asshole ripped all of the stars off of my pumpkin because I spelled a word wrong. I was pissed so I pictured her head chopped off and it brought things down a notch.

          22. EmP says:

            Oh no! Poor little K! How can you do that to a child??
            Well done for the murderous fantasy. She deserved it.

          23. K says:

            I know! She was a giant-fat-cruel-beast! Ha ha ha….she deserved a beheading.

          24. K says:

            E. B.
            I am not surprised at all. Many of the Nuns and Priests in my parish were Dirty Angels and I hated them all. The film Spotlight covers the church sex abuse scandal that involved some of these unsavory characters. I ignore the police and I refuse to call 911 anymore unless something drastic is going on, because the dispatchers are douche bags, too.

          25. EmP says:

            E.B. a female MRN I used to work with was the champion of shoe box charity. To make sure EVERYBODY KNEW, she would bring the box at work and wrap it there, at her desk, while reminding us all to contribute and informing us that she was going to donate blood the same week and how disappointed she was at people’s selfishness. She once started baking stuff for me OUT OF THE BLUE and leave it on my desk. It made me so uncomfortable I told her and she lost it, went to HR then stormed out of the office like a lunatic. The rest I might share with you at a later stage……

          26. E. B. says:

            Exactly. They want to make sure everyone knows!
            There is a female narc volunteering at the local school collecting money for donations -cash-.
            She also organizes a local event which takes place every two years. Participants have to pay a small fee to her -cash-. She says the money will be donated to charity. I do not know where the money goes. I only know that the year her event takes place, she and her family go on holiday for two weeks.

          27. EmP says:

            E.B. Are you suggesting the lovely lady stole the money??!! Who would ever do something like that??!
            Well, we had a few famous fraud cases here in Spain (they were all over the news) where people collected donations to treat terrible illnesses which never existed. The most famous one, which made me sick to my stomach, involved the parents of an 11-year old suffering from a rare disease. Those bastards (who are believed to have sexually abused the girl) collected (stole) nearly 1 million euros while travelling the world looking for the ‘miraculous cure’.

          28. Violetta says:

            “Shoebox Charity.” I like that.
            Seems to go well with being a Hall Monitor.

          29. EmP says:

            Violetta, yes she would have loved monitoring others. And reporting BAD BEHAVIOUR.

          30. Violetta says:

            The Glindas are the worst. It’s “for your own good,” you know.

            (from Wicked soundtrack)

            You see, Elphie, now that we’re friends, I’ve decided to make you my new project.

            You really don’t have to do that.

            I know. That’s what makes me so nice!
            Whenever I see someone less fortunate than I
            (and—let’s face it—who isn’t less fortunate than I?)
            My tender heart
            Tends to start to bleed
            And when someone needs a makeover
            I simply have to take over
            I know, I know exactly what they need
            And even in your case
            Though it’s the toughest case I’ve yet to face
            Don’t worry. I’m determined to succeed
            Follow my lead
            And yes, indeed
            You will be…

            You’re gonna be popular!
            I’ll teach you the proper poise
            When you talk to boys
            Little ways to flirt and flounce
            I’ll show you what shoes to wear
            How to fix your hair
            Everything that really counts

            To be popular!
            I’ll help you be popular!
            You’ll hang with the right cohorts
            You’ll be good at sports
            Know the slang you’ve got to know
            So let’s start
            ‘Cause you’ve got an awfully long way to go…

            Don’t be offended by my frank analysis
            Think of it as personality dialysis
            Now that I’ve chosen to become a pal, a sis-
            Ter and adviser
            There’s nobody wiser

            Not when it comes to popular.
            I know about popular
            And with an assist from me
            To be who you’ll be
            Instead of dreary who-you-were… or are…
            There’s nothing that can stop you
            From becoming populer. —Lar…

            La la la la
            We’re gonna make you popular…

            When I see depressing creatures
            With unprepossessing features
            I remind them on their own behalf to think of
            Celebrated heads of state or
            Especially great communicators.
            Did they have brains or knowledge?
            Don’t make me laugh!

            They were popular! Please.
            It’s all about popular!
            It’s not about aptitude
            It’s the way you’re viewed
            So it’s very shrewd to be
            Very very popular
            Like me!

            Why miss, Elphaba, look at you
            You’re beautiful

            I have to go

            [Calls after her]
            You’re welcome!
            And though you protest
            Your disinterest
            I know clandestinely
            You’re gonna grin and bear it
            Your new-found popularity

            La la la la
            You’ll be popular
            Just not quite as popular
            As me!

          31. Violetta says:

            Our local police stations and firehouses have an annual toy drive, but you bring your items unwrapped, and they’ll wrap it up for you and get it to children of the right age, etc.

            That takes care of both the deliberately malicious ones and the self-righteous types who want to do a little virtue signalling, and figure their cast-offs are good enough for the likes of those who’d be getting them. (Meghan Markle engaged in some of the latter when she flourished the baby’s supposedly outgrown possessions before poverty-stricken women in Africa as a precurser to donating them. I don’t think she was being deliberately condescending: I think she honestly thought that they should be as thrilled to get Archie’s possibly puke-stained onesies as a medieval monastery would be to get a fragment of St. Cuthbert’s fifth metatarsal.)

          32. Violetta says:

            A ruler-wielding nun is better than one of those squishy do-goodin’ types HG calls Overwhelming Angels. At least you know where you are with Sister Whack-a-Pupil.

            Read Florence King’s Confessions of a Failed Southern Lady/i. She called them Huggy-Bears. They would try to “help” her with her Social Skills, but they were really trying to create a bullying situation.

            An excerpt:

            ‘Recess was the bane of my existence because I had to play–yes, play–with the watery moles [other children]; otherwise one of the Life Adjustment teachers would spray me with friendly fire. It was a transitional period in education: the traditionalists were on their way out and the huggybears were on their way in. Huggybears loved playground duty because it gave them a golden opportunity to smoke out introverts. When they saw one, they came bounding up like lovelorn fascists, shrilling, “What are you doing here all alone?”‘

        2. K. There was a scandal a few years ago, well, maybe not a scandal, but the leaking of an inconvenient truth perhaps, that in NYC, where I live, if someone scored too highly on the police exam, they would not be accepted into the program to further train and become police officers. So, it seems the powers only want a certain level of intelligence for the police department. They do not want police that are overly intelligent. What you said about police, reminded me of this. They may be the `best`, but in general, they are NOT the brightest, according to the department heads of their own selection system.

          1. K says:

            No surprise there. Smart individuals may be perceived as a threat to control. I’m not impressed with law enforcement at all.

            “I’ll take a stand-up crook over a crooked cop any day of the week” -Agent Booth

            HG Tudor says:
            November 10, 2019 at 19:42
            If you are not good enough, you challenge and thus threaten control. It may appear as embarrassment to you, but it is not.
            If you are too good, you challenge and thus threaten control. You may regard it as outshining us, it is not.

            That song, most likely written by a narcissist or by a misguided normal.


      3. NotMe! says:

        Yes I agree, it’s uncomfortable to think about my contribution to the last 2 years of madness, but before I was guided to it here, I couldn’t get my head around it and I’m certain that I would have gone back to him for ‘answers’.
        You say you’ve been involved with Narcs all your life, how long is it that you have known and disengaged?

        1. EmP says:

          NotMe, as for the romantic partners the majority of times I broke it off or simply disappeared and changed number, etc. (lots of moving around from my side).
          I felt that the relationship was either too toxic or not going anywhere (when I was the DLS) so I just vanished. My first narc BF however left me and moved to Paris.

          As for my family, my parents had already burnt bridges with almost everyone else so I was de facto NC with the majority of my aunts, uncles and cousins. A couple of years ago I moved to Spain and cut contact with Nmother and Nfather. I was still in touch with Nsister back then but I went NC shortly after.
          For me it was always self-preservation. It was instinctive. It was very difficult, but there was no other way. As HG says, you can’t win the unwinnable battle.

      4. Bibi says:


        You hit the nail on the head. The DSM is a general guide and comes off too clinical. If you listen to a lot of channels, from ‘experts’, they keep saying that only a ‘licensed counselor can make that diagnosis.’

        While that is true, the same way a physician is the only one who can diagnose your disease, it doesn’t take away the physical ailments you are experiencing in the interim. It also gives the impression that someone should wait until some ‘authority’ says so. ‘Work through the abuse,’ in other words.

        They also offer the opinion that narcs can change, which we know is not true. I could show the Mid Ranger point by point his behaviours and he would still not see it. I was so gaslighted that I didn’t even see his actions as dishonesty, myself.

        It also just occurred to me today while on a run, Nov 15th was 6 yrs to the date where I found his Twitter page and freaked out. Imagine me waiting longer to get some ‘official diagnosis’ as I crumbled away in the process.

        HG, it begs repeating when I say nothing out there compares to your work. Yes, while there are some good empath channels helping to ‘rebuild’ but even they don’t really understand the dynamic the way you are able to, as well as communicate. I completely trust your advice because it has been spot on.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Thank you Bibi. My work is the best and the most effective.

        2. EmP says:

          The ‘Please do not diagnose anyone yourself’ warning is understandable in a way but also very dangerous, considering HOW LITTLE the supposed experts out there (including many psychologists) know about narcissism. Don’t even get me started on the ‘NPD can be cured’ and ‘It only affects less than 1% of the population’ parts.
          The truth is:
          1. We will never know how many narcissists there are; and
          2. There are way more narcissists than people realise.

          1. HG Tudor says:


          2. Bibi says:

            Ditto here. If it walks like a duck…

            Society in general puts too much clout in ‘experts’. Let’s not forget that ‘expert’ doctors bled George Washington to death for his strep throat or look at the history of mental institutions and how they treated patients–not to mention what they thought was ‘worthy’ of treatment–i.e. anyone who does not fall into societal norms. You need a lobotomy!

            ‘Experts’ also rejected the Impressionists in favor of the shitty Salon artists. So, history shows otherwise. So much for ‘experts’.

          3. FoolMe1Time says:

            You are so correct about society and there experts, I would never have dreamed of telling anyone about my past abuse for fear of them forcing me to be locked up or some sort of bloody treatment! I kept that secret for most of my life until I started consulting with HG and also opening up more on the blog.

          4. Mercy says:

            EmP, I laugh at your comment “Please do not diagnose anyone yourself”. Yes because they’re lining up at the doors waiting for an expert to diagnose them right? The only time you’ll see a narcissist in therapy is when it benefits them to be there or they are forced to be their. Even then, it’s my opinion that unless the experts have had real exposure to a narcissist they would not understand.

          5. HG Tudor says:


          6. EmP says:

            Mercy, many members of the ACONs forum often complain about this. Some are being pushed to forgive their parents, break NC and be the better person (!). Others are told to trust in Jesus and/or pray (yes, by their therapist). Some are accused of somehow contributing/having contributed to the problem. Others are told off if they suggest their parent might be a narcissist. That is why they come to the forum. They are neither understood nor helped.
            The same happens with CPS. When involved, they seem to make more harm than good.
            Some of the young ones just pack their stuff and run away. Completely alone.

          7. HG Tudor says:

            They have no idea what they are talking about and no idea the problems they are causing.

          8. EmP says:

            Exactly HG. It’s a bit of a tragedy, really.

          9. Mercy says:

            EmP, I’m sorry could you tell me what ACONs is?

          10. HG Tudor says:

            Adult Child of Narcissist.

          11. Mercy says:

            Thank you HG

          12. EmP says:

            Mercy, you may want to check the ‘Little ACONs’ memes here on Narcsite. Shockingly accurate.

          13. Witch says:

            I started with Lundy Bancroft. Then found HG and after HG I found SV.
            HG’s content is superior and the most accessible.
            I tried speaking about my mother in Mental health support groups online and the feedback was useless. I got told off by someone when I said sometimes I think she may have NPD, they said other people have had it worse and I’m not the only one that’s struggled.
            Therapists still think NPD is extremely rare.
            I only really talk about it here because it’s really the only safe place to talk about NPD.
            I asked a mental health professional recently why he thinks people are reluctant to diagnose someone under the dark triad. He said I would really need to speak to a psychologist about it, but it’s probably because people don’t want to upset their patients lol

        3. Violetta says:

          Bibi, totally agree. The abstract info out there isn’t a patch on one of HG’s creepy monologues. Once I started to understand the Narc’s “script,” I could see how I was being typecast and made to play a part in that script.

      5. njfilly says:

        Dear EmP:

        That’s very interesting what you state that moderators of other forums will not allow you to refer people to Mr. HG Tudor’s work. Is it just his work or any other sites as well?

        I’m not familiar with that but it’s almost like a conspiracy to keep him from dominating the field.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I know some forums don’t object and others do because it’s jealousy

          1. njfilly says:

            Yes. They are jealous. They know who is the best, but apparently providing help is not really their priority.

          2. K says:

            Exactly, and that’s how we know they are not Empaths.

          3. Renarde says:

            Fetlife hates you.


          4. HG Tudor says:

            I really do not give a rat’s ass about it. But they clearly do about me.

            I win.

            As usual.

          5. Renarde says:

            Yeah HG. The name of Tudor was banned. I had spoken over different matters with that group owner. I asked why? Never got a response.

            Didnt stop members nicking your work and posting without credit. I think I mailed you.

          6. HG Tudor says:

            There behaved the narcissists.

          7. Renarde says:

            Indeed HG. Quite something that isnt it? They sensed you were dangerous but could not explain why?

            It’s a very great pity that your word couldn’t get out there. I’m sure a lot of females would have benefitted.

            Maybe I’ll reactivate and start linking you. Legitimately.

          8. HG Tudor says:

            I appreciate your efforts to do so, Renarde.

          9. Renarde says:

            Thank you.

            I was very minded the other day to write a blistering expose of power exchange and put it onto fet. Then just wait.

            You see, from fets point of view I just disappeared into the aether. There would’ve been many stories in the local community swirling around me. I know things have been said and assumptions made. Possibly about time I corrected some erroneous thoughts.

          10. Renarde says:

            Thankyou HG. I know you do and that means so much.

        2. EmP says:

          Hi njfilly, I don’t know because I haven’t tried to refer members to any other blog. But, I did recommend a book about healing Complex PTSD a couple of times and the mods were OK with that. No warnings.

          1. njfilly says:

            Dear EmP:

            That’s very telling. Have you ever tried recommending any HG Tudor books? I wonder what their response would be?

            On a personal note, I hope you are healing from whatever situation you found yourself in. Has the other blog been helpful to you?

          2. EmP says:

            Njfilly, no, after being warned I decided not to take chances, HOWEVER, what I often do is inviting people to look for books on No Contact on Amazon, for example. I keep it generic and hope they do go to Amazon and find HG’s books there.

            The Forum does help, in a different way from this blog. I find it cathartic and it caters to my need of ‘saving’ others in need.
            Thank you for caring by the way!

          3. njfilly says:

            Dear EmP:

            Thanks for responding. I read more down the thread and saw more comments related to this issue.

            May I ask you, the forum you are on, what type of forum is it, and how does it help you? Are you there to help yourself or others? What is the difference to this blog?

          4. EmP says:

            Njfilly, it is a forum which is used by ACONs to share experiences about their dysfunctional family relationships and the abuse that goes with it, find validation, ask for advice.

            I write/comment to both help myself and help others. I don’t use it to know more about and understand NPD. I don’t use it to find out more about Empathy. There is no Ultra publishing, answering questions, running polls. No references are made to romantic relationships with Narcissists. No “A Very…..Narcissist” series either!

          5. njfilly says:

            Very interesting, thank you.

            Sounds very boring without the “Ultra influence”.

        3. alexissmith2016 says:

          Prior to HG setting up this site, I used another site and people would actually be banned if they even mentioned SV. It just seemed nonsensical. I used to listen to SV. Clearly not any more as HG’s work is far superior. I was new to the concept at the time and was compliant because I wanted to learn.

          1. njfilly says:

            Dear alexissmith2016:

            Really? I find that very interesting. Is that common that blogs don’t want their members mentioning other blogs, or do you believe it to be specific toward SV and HG Tudor? Do you think it is because they are narcissists?

            It definitely seems like their jealousy is showing. I’m not familiar with the work of SV, although I know who he is.

            This HG Tudor blog is a few years old, correct? Have you been here since the beginning?

          2. alexissmith2016 says:

            I found HG approx a couple of months after he started his blog, close to inception, but not quite. I’ve never looked back. I mean I’m no expert but some other sites do come across as rather dogmatic. I don’t really understand why you would not want people to know about everyone else’s work? if you want them to get better and help themeselves?

          3. njfilly says:

            I’m very new to all this. I only just learned about narcissism in March.

            The other sites are jealous of Mr. HG Tudor.

          4. HG Tudor says:

            Indeed they are, NJfilly, indeed they are.

          5. njfilly says:

            At least they are smart enough to know your information is superior.

          6. HG Tudor says:

            Fucking a.

          7. alexissmith2016 says:

            Yes some are for sure. Pleased you found your way here njfilly

          8. Renarde says:


            Dangerous place to be in, when you want to learn.

            Thankfully, we are like…Yeah, we are like fillies here! Gambling around and shit!

            Wankin can fuck off. Decidedly unoriginal. And he looks like a squatting bull frog.

            Not all Gs are created equal..

        4. Violetta says:

          Lose Control To My Control sounds like a Chuck Tingle title.

          1. njfilly says:

            I didn’t know who Chuck Tingle was so I had to look him up. I also had to look up a few GOT character names. Boy, I am learning so much here.

          2. Violetta says:

            I have to say, looking at Chuck Tingle titles (I’ve never read any of the books so far) cheers me up no matter how depressed I may be.

      6. E. B. says:

        I totally agree with you about support forums. The passive-aggressive moderators did not warn me. They started deleting posts in which I happened to mention HG. They did not find anything wrong with any of my other comments, though.
        They found any excuse to delete those recommending HG by distorting the meaning of my words. They accused me of saying things I neither wrote nor meant. I could never have said such things because that would be contrary to my opinion and knowledge.

        It is dreadful to think that victims fall into the hands of narc moderators to heal from abuse. Since most of these moderators are women, they know how to change their behaviour after being called out.
        There is someone I used to know from a previous board. She is moderating another one for victims of narcissistic abuse with C-PTSD. She has changed her behaviour to such an extent that you would think she has become an Empath! She is far better than Gordon Gecko at the end of Wall Street II.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Yes, these are the Support Forum Frauds and they are more numerous than people realise.

          In the early days of this blog, another writer contacted me accusing me of plagiarising her material. This was incorrect because I do not read other people’s material in any great detail and I certainly have no interest in using their inferior material (and believe me this individual´s work is terrible – I went and had a look afterwards and read reviews of the work by other people.) This individual claims to be a survivor and preaches about overcoming narcissism. This individual not only could not have accused me of using her work, because I did not, but more importantly she singularly failed, in her complaint, to identify what I had apparently plagiarised which shows there was no evidence and she was operating in the vague amorphous way that such a Lower Echelon Narcissist would. I also know from other readers that this individual has repeatedly failed to be ready for planned consultations and then offers no explanation or excuse when pointed out she was late for the start (or where the client has had to contact her wondering where she is). It was clear what she was very quickly and unfortunately people access this work without realising they are not receiving accurate information and that they are receiving it from a narcissist.

          1. EmP says:

            They won’t even let you name HG or narcsite.com
            Closed-minded and arrogant, they clearly don’t have the victims’ best interests at heart.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Indeed. There are other sites which mention my work and encourage people to use it, they will warn people that it may not be easy reading for them but they point out how effective the information is. Those are empathic individuals – they do not exhibit jealously, they care about the provision of information (the right information), they have no need to attack me because they do not need to exert control, they do not need to suppress access to my work because they have no need to wield control over people. There will be some people who do not direct people to my work because they do so out of being misguided (they read the word narcissist and nothing more and make the wrong conclusion without actually testing the work) and then the others are the narcissists who do not know what they are, who are prescriptive, ban people and cannot recognise their jealousy of my work.

          3. E. B. says:

            I know that you are not interested in using misleading, low quality material, HG.
            They may be narcissists but their cognitive function does not seem to be good enough to make them fully aware of all traits and behaviours of the different types and subtypes of narcissists. They are not good acquainted with the subject.
            Fake victims tend to accuse others of the very same thing they do. They must have been plagiarizing part of your work. They believe that nobody will notice if they steal different texts from different authors and sources and put them all together.

            I have the impression there is a shift. Some people want survivors to believe it is not important to learn about narcissists but to do healing work only. It is not surprising that this actually comes from people who make money with healing programs. It does not make much sense because in order to understand why a victim reached adulthood with low self-worth and inner wounds they had to learn about narcissism first.

            There is an individual with an uneducated accent who ridiculed victims in a video for wanting to know if a particular individual was a narcissist. Actually, they made a fool of themselves. I found it unprofessional to ridicule others for wanting to know what they are dealing with. We want to protect ourselves.
            I think that both are important: learning about narcissism *and* doing inner work.

          4. HG Tudor says:

            You are entirely correct.

            You do not have to heal yourself. Yes, you need to recover from the abuse, let the physical injuries heal, reduce and alleviate the anxiety, start sleeping again, eat properly etc, but you cannot “heal the wounds” what made you what you are because it is too late. You are an empath and you cannot change that and moreover, why should you? Anything which helps you deal with the symptoms of the narcissist´s abuse when you are an adult, fair enough. Anybody saying to you, heal yourself from your childhood wounds, waste of time. You do not need to do that. Instead, you need to understand WHO exploits what you are (our kind), WHY we are attracted to you, WHY you are attracted to us, HOW we ensnare you, HOW we keep you ensnared, WHAT you need to do to spot us, WHAT you need to do to get out and WHAT you need to do so stay out. You do not need to work on some inner healing, you do not need to work on your boundaries you need to understand that narcissists want you, you are addicted to narcissists and that YOU have to access the best the information so that you recognise us and then ensure you stay away from us.

            By staying away, you do not have to change what you are (which is pointless anyway, because you cannot.)

          5. Dolores Haze says:

            This comment deserves a blog post of its own, HG.

          6. HG Tudor says:

            I agree DH and thank you. There will be a more detailed article about this next month.

          7. Sweetest Perfection says:

            “Anybody saying to you, heal yourself from your childhood wounds, waste of time. You do not need to do that. Instead, you need to understand WHO exploits what you are (our kind), WHY we are attracted to you, WHY you are attracted to us, HOW we ensnare you, HOW we keep you ensnared, WHAT you need to do to spot us, WHAT you need to do to get out and WHAT you need to do so stay out.” YES. And this is exactly why I decided to stick to your work and to never go back to the therapist that was trying to work on healing my past instead of helping me understand the narc’s abuse. I understand knowing you are an empath is essential to know why you are a target and what you can do to prevent that from happening again, but I was not gonna tolerate anyone telling me the narc was an asshole to me because of my childhood. Fuck the pseudo-Freudian blame shifting! I am so lucky I found this so soon.

          8. HG Tudor says:

            Indeed, SP.

          9. Lorelei says:

            Hi Sweetest—excellent thoughts! Talk therapy would never truly help me. I shut down really quickly when it gets real anyway. Much of this I have to entertain in my own mind but the knowledge to “think” it out with isn’t in a therapists arsenal. I think to reconcile childhood is where I could safely go—from an angle of understanding, but I’m not going to cry endlessly over milk long ago spilled. I think it’s safe to say I grew up under the thumb of a narcissist and that it brings me emotion at times. I think it’s safe to say that the sexual abuse/violence was inappropriate and has had an impact. What I fail to appreciate is how much I’m capable of though. I’m high functioning, educated, well employed, have delightful children and people want to be around me. I lose sight of this easily.

          10. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Don’t lose sight of all you have and you have accomplished. I don’t allow my past dictate my future, and I don’t care that my childhood was less than ideal now. That’s why I don’t wanna spend time with anyone talking about my father when the problem is a dude I met at work. I don’t think I am addicted to narcs, I just happened to be liked by them.

          11. K says:

            Phenomenal comment. I don’t give a rat’s ass about my wounds or inner child; please, just give me the awareness and the tools to recognize NPD abuse and how to prevent it from ever happening again and that is exactly what you do, here on narcsite, for all of us.

          12. HG Tudor says:

            Thank you K

          13. K says:

            My pleasure HG.

          14. Lorelei says:

            HG—I’m fairly certain my boundaries suck. Why do you say we don’t need to work on them? I’ve heard this a few times. Are you saying we learn who to be ourselves around and who to GOSO and not engage with? Now is this not a form of boundaries?

          15. HG Tudor says:

            The only people where boundaries really cause an issue are narcissists and it is pointless trying to work on them with us, because we ignore them. You are better served by gaining my information to know what to look for, reducing your Emotional Thinking so you APPLY the information I give you and then AVOID the narcissist. You do not need to worry about boundaries then because you avoid the need to enforce them. If you try to enforce them with a narcissist, it will not work, so there is no point trying.

          16. Mercy says:

            HG, this makes so much sense. I never thought about healing myself or working on boundaries in the past. I actually thought I was pretty normal until I collided with the narcissist. I don’t feel any pain because of what the he did and I’m no longer trying to change the outcome of the relationship. In reality I’m over it. I “feel” nothing. Any interest I have in him is the addiction. Thanks for aha moment!

          17. HG Tudor says:

            You are welcome, Mercy.

          18. Dolores Haze says:

            I stopped looking at/for other sources of information ever since I found this site. I think it was someone’s FB comment on The Guardian article about contemporary culture wrongly portraying abusive relationships as fairytale romances (50 Shades, Bella and Edward the vampire etc). Someone mentioned HG’s site as a source of true info about dynamics of an empath-narcissist relationship and how important it is we don’t teach our kids that this is what a normal romantic relationship is.

          19. HG Tudor says:

            HG approves.

          20. Bibi says:

            HG, was this plagiarist accuser woman the Pink Talon Lady? Anyway, one of the things I have observed is that while envy can play a part, that would then imply their recognition that the work is superior and I don’t know how smart they are. Who knows if they even have read your work–they might have just written you off simply for being you. Which is of course, unfair. And it doesn’t matter b/c the result is the same.

            One of the reasons could be, and I say this from my past experience, people belonging in a ‘clique’ won’t promote someone else they are unable to benefit from. If narcissistic awareness is what they are really after, then they would have no problem sharing. But that is not what they are really after.

            They realize that sharing your work won’t ‘benefit’ them in anyway, since you are not going to reciprocate. And nor should you. But that is how people like this operate–scratch my back and I scratch yours. You get these YTbers co-hosting so they can gain more subs, I’ll spread your work around if you spread mine, even if the work in question is not very good or helpful.

            It is very annoying and that is a system I want no part in. In the long haul, going your own route will pay off, as they and theirs will fall away in time.

            The whole reason we have ‘experts’ is so we can trust the source the advice is coming from. But one has to be able to recognize when experts are wrong, and ‘experts’ need to be ‘expert’ enough to realize when good material is coming from a new source outside their accepted ‘system’.

            Einstein had a hard time getting his ideas out there–as many did not want to believe that this young man who worked in a clerk’s office could have really solved something. It greatly damages their egos. It is very unfortunate, as it holds much of culture and growth back.

          21. HG Tudor says:

            No, it wasn’t her.

            I agree with you observations. I have no interest in co-hosting. I will undertake interviews for people, I have no problem with that, but I neither have the time nor the inclination to co-host.

          22. Lorelei says:

            HG—but if you co-host it could be like Regis and Kelly if we go to New York. I’ll act like a lady on the air!

          23. Bibi says:

            HG, you’re doing everything right. It amazes me you even have time to sleep. They’re just schmucks and it is despicable to deny people that option of wanting to read you.

          24. HG Tudor says:

            Agreed. Fuck ém.

          25. njfilly says:

            Dear Mr. HG Tudor,

            I know you have written about the causes for narcissism. What causes a person to become an empath? What causes the different schools and cadres of empaths?

          26. HG Tudor says:

            I am writing about this in the books about empaths, NJF, so I shall save it for those slabs of literary might.

          27. njfilly says:

            Oh I can’t wait!

          28. Sweetest Perfection says:

            I can’t wait either, njfilly. I’m excited to know more about us! I always said in a way, finding out I was ensnared by a narc has helped me find out a lot about myself too.

          29. njfilly says:

            I agree. I have definitely learned a lot this year; about narcissists and myself. I’m not sure how I made it through life so far without knowing all these things!

          30. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Neither do I! It’s like those women that have never had an orgasm. It may sound like fiction to them though it’s real. I guess once they experience it, they ask themselves the same thing!

          31. njfilly says:

            Hi SweetP:

            I’m embarrassed to admit this, but I don’t know how to use wordpress and although I can see your comment I can’t read my entire comment and I forgot what I said that prompted your comical response about orgasms. So I will just say, yes, orgasms are good. I like them. I aspire to have them.

          32. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Njfilly, if you don’t know how to use WordPress, you are one of us! The opposite is the weird thing.But wait, did I read you aspire to have orgasms!? Aspire???

          33. njfilly says:


            I am one of you. A classified empath by Mr. HG Tudor.

            I meant aspire to within each sexual encounter, not that I have never had one. Actually, I can still distinctly remember my first. I was 15 and he was my high school sweetheart. Although he now lives in CA, we are still friends to this day.

          34. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Hahahaha no, njfilly, by stating you aren’t one of us I meant another victim of WordPress chaos!!! We all have suffered its mayhem, don’t feel bad. I read you were a super empath carrier. I’m a standard carrier, we have something in common. About orgasms: I made the joke because I compared living without knowing about narcissism until now to women that still haven’t experienced an orgasm. My orgasm(ssss) experience is recorded in the blog, I’m not gonna insist because the last time I was accused by HG of showing off. Hahaha!

          35. njfilly says:

            Thanks for clarifying, SweetP.

            Yes we do have something in common by both being carriers.

            Now part of my own orgasm experience is recorded in the blog.

            I once had a blue front amazon parrot named Sweat Pea. She died last December.

            Have a great day!

          36. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Dang that sounded ominous! I hope at least to make it one more December!

          37. njfilly says:

            I don’t know what I said that sounded ominous. I guess I’m getting a little forgetful and I can’t find my comment. (again).

            I think I’m closer to the end of my life than you. I’m ok with that. My birthday is actually tomorrow. I’ll be 54.

            I hope you live as long as you want to.

          38. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Haha don’t say that! Death is not just a question of age, unfortunately. It was the mention to your parrot with a similar name, which died last December. I’ll remember tomorrow!!

          39. EmP says:

            Njfilly, that comment of yours cracked me up. It sounded like:” I had a parrot with your name and SHE DIED. BYE.”

          40. njfilly says:

            Oh, I see. Duh! I’m currently multi-tasking and losing track of things. Thanks for your patience!

          41. njfilly says:

            I’m also discussing the ‘spanked’ audio with K.

            I hope I don’t accidentally text a client a spanking comment meant for the blog. Although that might be a good business move for me.

          42. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Worth a promotion, for sure! Haha.

          43. EmP says:

            OMG njfilly, you are funny.

          44. Bibi says:

            Bahahaha. I like the attitude. Fuck ’em indeed.

          45. Lorelei says:

            Oh and HG—recall they spiritual guru that is all over YouTube that was passive aggressive about providing something she offered via email to anyone that asked. Except me because she loathes you and didn’t want to email it to me for that reason. I know passive aggressive and she can F off with her spiritual shit.

          46. Renarde says:


            The post that began…

            “You dol not have to heal yourself.”

            Jesus Wept as PN would say.

            This doesnt just deserve a post; it’s a book. I’d invite you to write it except I wont because I will write it instead. Ha!

            For so many years Empaths have had it drummed into their heads that we are wrong. We are mad, unstable Bpd?? Anything and everything to deflect from the truth.

          47. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

            Dearest HG: I am so triggered by these mental and hypnotic regression people. Why do they not understand that except for acknowledging some obvious mishaps in ones past, (I will go along with that) is just a starting point to move forward, but, to go beyond some general acknowledgments, and reflection regarding some bad incidents in ones past, it is impossible to drag someone all the way back for analysis, without dragging back everyone else involved, which would include rewinding life and history back to the past. They just can not do this. They even attempt this theory of regression regarding an event in the past in science fiction and there are always deadly mishaps and weird consequences, no matter what genius works on this concept. It can not work. Yet, they want to attempt this deep pyschological regression methods on people in a medical practitioner`s office??? These sorts have driven some of their clients medically and legally insane. And then, I guess such mental practitioners say: oops!

          48. Bibi: The lady with the long fingernails does credit HG Tudor for his work and for the Breakdown of the Schools and Cadres. And she suggested him for her readers. I remember her doing that as recently as last year or so.

          49. Bibi says:


            1) That is hilarious you know who I speak of just by the description.
            2) Glad to hear she gave credit, as I did see a few of her vids where she neglected to mention HG even though she was using all his terminology and ideas.

            Maybe someone called her on it? Those fingernails are scary tho. Don’t piss her off.

          50. HG Tudor says:

            You’re correct. She failed to reference she was using my work and a few people pointed this out to her.

          51. kel says:

            HG, what some of us need to heal from is the gaslighting and the mental illnesses we might have developed from growing up in a narcissistic family. Anxiety disorder is a mental illness, that a sane person growing up with a narcissist parent can be afflicted with. Your grown brother had so much anxiety with the It girl that he urinated on himself in front of a crowd. Think that embarrassment and humiliating memory was something he just walked away from and forgot about and didn’t haunt him? Think he just moved on without ever having social anxiety again, or did he have to learn what caused him to do that unthinkable act and find a way to get rid of anxiety, which he developed because of your Matrinarc. Requires some healing from a disorder that a narcissist has given you to change a lifetime way of thinking, that causes physical and mental anxiety in a person, and I’m sure that memory haunted him, one that was kept alive by your association with her. Finding out about narcissism is the first step and recovering from it is the second, healing from any disorders you developed from narcissistic gaslighting and manipulations is the third.

          52. HG Tudor says:

            Indeed Kel and I drew the distinction between these concepts. If you have a mental health issue arising from abuse you have suffered (in whatever form) then there are ways of addressing that. That is different from what it is that makes you attracted to our kind and we attracted to you. Thus, let us say you suffer from anxiety because of abuse, you can address that. However, you cannot stop being an empath, you cannot change being an empath it is what you are and the idea that you have to somehow change what you became is both misleading and fruitless.

          53. kel says:

            Oh I get what you’re saying! Yes I agree, there’s no changing that we are empaths. I’m absolutely on board with you!

          54. HG Tudor says:

            We have an accord!

          55. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

            Bibi: I would have to know when someone called her out by date, and then see the videos` dates where she did acknowledge HG Tudor and compare, to know if those that called her out jumped the gun or not. Evidence. I would hate for her to be a scapegoat, especially from women that do not admire her fashion style, while those forums and mental specialists that do not acknowledge HG in their usage of his work, go free from censure. And, too much censure is not good, anyway. Maybe those that may have called her out, depending on how this was done, and if they did so prematurely, will prevent her from saying his name in the future. That is not good. But such is life. I know if I mentioned someone and their work publicly and openly and therefore had that someone covered with my readers, and those that did not know that, called me out unfairly, I would not mention that someone again. Too much trouble involved, that would not benefit me and my time. .

          56. FYC says:

            Painfully true, HG. Which is why your Zero Impact package is so very helpful. Before I knew what narcissism was, I was frustrated with being sensitive and caring, because these qualities were shamed by familial and other narcissists with: “You’re too sensitive,” “Why do you care?”, “Just forget about it,” “It doesn’t matter,” to name a few. I actually tried to lock down my empathy, but had no success. If anything the effort had the opposite effect. Better to embrace who and how we are, and use Zero Impact. I don’t know if I would call it an addiction, possibly, but I think it is more a hopeful desire to (finally) achieve a different outcome. Better to eliminate false hope and move on. There is no other outcome with a narcissist and accepting that and following Zero Impact equals freedom.

          57. HG Tudor says:

            Correct FYC, it is of the most paramount importance and through the Monday Bundles I am in essence giving them away, but I will not for much longer!

          58. FYC says:

            I noticed, HG. Those are incredible deals. Too late for me to get a discount on Zero Impact, but it is worth every penny full price anyway.

          59. Desirée says:

            I agree regarding the regressionists. It certainly serves many purposes, one of them being offering a new perspective to commonly held beliefs, but it’s not meant for its own sake or self-importance.

          60. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

            Desiree: I can not put into English the disgust and abhorrence and revulsion I feel for the mental practitioners that attempt to stew and steep people into their past minds, as if they could actually isolate persons from the others involved in that past environment. I need a pure language to discuss my distain for them. Now, if the mental workers could regress the person back and then allow the person to see real live justice done to their abusers, on behalf of the victim, by regressing the abusers back as well. And then implementing live justice. By having the abusers` teeth punched out or treated in a like manner as appropriate to the abuser`s crime against their client/victim, then maybe it would help in a minuscule manner, but the mental workers can not do even that. We are designed to move forward. That is why our eyes are in the front of our heads. Our minds can reflect and learn from the past, and some key events and persons and that is it. But our minds have to largely deal with the present in preparation for the future, with a respectable awareness of the past. That is it. Anyway, I hope HG can understand my attempt to explain that I have an abhorrence at this attempt at time travel, by some mental practitioners. Such persons have destroyed many in the name of mental science and research and therapy. Even that yoga thinking and making your mind BLANK with meditation and all that is bad for your mind, but do not believe me, if you want. That is your right to believe whom you want. And you should never allow yourself to be hypnotized, mentally regressed, choked out (like in martial arts, `love`-making, etc). Do not allow anyone to pull your mind around and about. Even if they have a diploma or even three diplomas or more on the wall. Some people never bring their minds back from such experiences. Some other minds come back scrambled. And then still some other minds come back as automatons. I can not put it in words. I think a lot of that type of therapy has fallen out of favor. But, I am sure it is still being practiced plenty on those that trust their minds to other people, or are forced into that type of thing because of a lack of power. Even if Kardashians and the like say they do yoga mind work and meditate on a blank mind, etc. So what. Do not do that stuff with your mind. Many do not trust their computer passwords to others. But, they will trust their minds that created the computer passwords to others. Even anyone that brings around a yoga or exercise mat. hahahaha. Amazing. Good luck.

          61. Desirée says:

            “We are designed to move forward. That is why our eyes are in the front of our heads.”
            I like that. A good sentiment to start the day with.
            Yoga is quite enjoyable although I would view it rather as a “reset” of the mind after a long day, not so much an attempt to wipe the slate completely. Yoga and Meditation can help one refocus on the tasks at hand rather then ruminate about this, that and the other. But yes, some people take it to strange lengths and it can start to appear as if they don’t even wish to be of this world anymore, which is not helpful so long as you’re still living.

          62. Desiree: For those that do not know, Yoga and Meditation are gateways to train you to open up the portals of your mind to be accessed and controlled. Gateway in the way that many say that softer drugs tenderize people to move up on to harder drugs. Many people know this, but many more people are being bombarded to accept these gateways of yoga and meditation, and there are more gateways than these 2, but, I do not keep up with the latest mental gateways pushed on various societies, and many have fought against them, but are losing the battle. And people are gradually being convinced and conditioned and mentally prepped to think it is not a big deal to mind-trip and space out using these odd gateway methodologies, and many people even say, Well, it is relaxing. These odd methodologies are SUPPOSED to be relaxing, but, their purpose is to put your mind`s survival mechanisms and logic to sleep: The SENTRY of the person, IS then put OFF DUTY in an ODD way, and the person`s mind is then open and unprotected and accessible to foreign entry. Over and Over. Who knows what goes into a person`s mind during that odd down-time, or what happens to the mind during that odd down-time. The West has the greatest number of people left that still have the strongest minds geared towards individual thought and autonomy of the individual, and general freedom of the person. But, these odd mental gateways are now pushed heavily onto the people of the West including North America. Sleep and alcohol are the 2 ways to give the mind a little break that ( unless one is an extremist, also called and alcoholic) it is healthy. That is why alcohol is demonized so much: So that people will move on to heavy drugs and odd mental gateways. Go ahead and have your little drink of champagne or wine or brandy, etc. And let no one shame you. Sadly, I hear that some countries do not allow their citizenry to drink alcohol at all (the regular people. Those hypocrites hide and still drink it in the upper echelons. hahaha). Unbelievable. But, the regular people will then find some harmful ways to exercise the stress in their minds. So, I am just saying this for those that do not know: Do not give up control of your mind to hypnosis, yoga, meditation, mental regression, choking, isolation tanks, chanting or whatever else these mental gurus come up with, `for your heath and relaxation.` hahahaha. I know that every adult is free to believe whom they want to believe, and what they want to believe, and to do what they please, of course. And some will not believe me, but some will believe me. And, some people really do not know the reason why yoga and meditation, etc., is pushed so heavily in Western Culture and North America in the past few decades, after they finally squeezed their foot into the door. So, I am glad I have told them why. To break the mind. It must be because it is good and healthy for people over here, right? No. And it must be good if it is relaxing, right? No. It is NOT good for your mind. I reiterate, I am saying this for those that did not know, and now rarely will hear the porch-dog media discuss what I am saying, any longer. Also, many parents that are in the know, have fought this battle even in the school systems in the U.S. against yoga and meditation being forced also, directly on the minds of their children during the school day. Many parents over the years first opted their children out of such practices, and when that no longer worked they moved away from certain school districts, over all of this, but they can not run forever. And so these parents that know the battle, are now losing this battle over the minds of their children, as well.

          63. FYC says:

            PSE: Yoga and meditation are not gateways to mind control by others. That is to say, anything can be used as a backdrop for manipulation, but the activities themselves are neutral. The susceptibility of a person to be indoctrinated and manipulated does not spring from focus, activities or logic, it is far more insidious. To avoid mind control, do not allow yourself to be influenced by flattery, enticement, disclosure, intimidation, shaming, guilting, coercion, propaganda and a myriad of other forms of manipulation. Instead, increase your own factual knowledge independently. Always use logic. Let trust be earned. Stand firm in your convictions/non-negotiables. Have healthy self-esteem. If you do these things you can enjoy yoga, meditation, and any other activities without falling prey to group think, propaganda, intimidation or manipulation. Lastly, I would suspect that most cult leaders and/or groups that seek hegemonic control are run by one or more people with NPD or APD.

          64. HG Tudor says:

            My Ashtanga Class is Tuesdays and Thursdays at The Mind Bender Centre. It’s called Lose Control To My Control because er that’s a form of relaxation

          65. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Hahaha. I just can’t.

          66. FYC says:

            LOL! I had to google Ashtanga. Such a compelling offer, and I do appreciate Tudor’s “Lose Control to My Control” truth in advertising, but, I’ll pass. I prefer other pursuits for mind and body enrichment.

          67. Sweetest Perfection says:

            FYC, I used to practice Rāja which is about mind control. If I’m not incorrect it’s also called Ashtanga. But I didn’t combine it with Hatha or physical yoga, it was just meditation. I joined an organization called Brahma Kumaris, it’s very big in India and it promotes women’s empowerment. They instruct you on the meditation techniques and other things like positive thoughts. I should go back to it.

          68. FYC says:

            SP I have not tried that yoga. I only tried basic yoga in a class I went to with a friend, but no spiritual comments were made. I am naturally limber and I prefer other sports and activities for fitness. Was your class given at The Mind Bender Centre? I hear the instructor there is truly mind blowing. Bahaha

          69. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Hahaha nope! I wouldn’t try that yoga instructor, I want to be awoken but not ensnared!

          70. FYC says:

            I don’t know SP, at second glance, the ad says The Mind Bender Centre’s Ashtanga class is guaranteed to be a life changing experience you’ll never forget and the membership is for life. Sounds like a golden opportunity, no?

          71. Violetta says:

            PES: I’ve taken yoga, and I liked the classes with physical workouts. I didn’t care for the instructors who emphasized the spiritual aspects, because that’s none of their business. It’s like acting: I like the outside-in approach, where you find a gesture or even a wardrobe item that helps you find the character. The whole Method thing of examining your own mental navel lint seems to me an awful waste of effort, even counter-productive.

          72. Desirée says:

            I appreciate you voicing the common concerns regarding these practices and there certainly is a battle over the minds of children. If I where to fight it in the US, there are other topics I would start with.

          73. Desiree and Violetta: Regarding these mental methodologies: I am reminded of cartoons like the roadrunner and the coyote. In short, the coyote comes up with so many plans to destroy the road runner, but the coyote fails in so many odd ways. Likewise, after the big economic swindle of retirement funds and housing ownership in 2008, in addition to the incredible increase in student loan debts, many of the planned targeted clients of Yoga and Meditation etc, (and most of those that were targeted were not truly lured by these practices in the first place), now can not even afford the gym and club memberships and private instructor fees to take all of this stuff, even if they wanted to follow those that lead the way by joining up first, and filling up these practices, made them popular and are willingly into it. And therefore milllons of targets, that were not interested by nature, are escaping these mind traps, anyway, without even trying. Hahaha. The irony of life. They can not afford it. So, due to lack of income, many many, many targets are escaping this ensnarement, without any effort of forethought. lol. The coyote once again, oddly, failed to destroy the roadrunner. The mysterious, rich, and sometimes hilarious irony of life. PSE approves.

        2. K says:

          E. B.
          Both you and HG were painted black and gas lighted. The dynamic is amazing!

      7. There is a thin line between business and altruism. I am not really making a criticism. I am just saying that people do need to make a living, and the line becomes murky at times. For example: So, for quite a while many forums and sites, etc., did discuss HG Tudor`s work a lot, because that is how I heard about him, but now he is growing in importance and influence so rapidly, that they do fear losing their clients to him. People in the mental practitioner field are trying to make a living in this field, like people in any other field, as well as help others. And without a living for themselves, they will not be able to help others. So they do fear Real competition. And so there is practically radio silence about his work, in general, as compared to before, from those in the mental practitioner field. That`s just business and the business of competition, whether we like it or not. HG`s works delivers so much, that those forums are falling silent about him, more than before, yet you know they read his work themselves to keep themselves up to date. His readers and those that he has helped, both layman and professional are still helping to spread the word about him though, here and there as calmly as possible, to fill in this reality gap. Whenever, I mention his work, I do so as calmly and diplomatically as possible and usually I have no problems, but even if I post something, and later it is taken down, I bet someone saw it, and, thus, I am satisfied by my grass roots efforts. Earnest and sincere grass roots advertising does work. And it is the best kind of advertising. However, It takes longer, and the participants therefore have to be more calm and patient and diplomatic, but it does work. It is the long game approach, but at end, it is the strongest and most stable approach. Our advertising of his work does matter and it does work. Maybe not as swiftly as we want it to work, and maybe not exactly in the way that we want it to work, but it works.

    2. Also, HG Tudor`s discussions about Emotional Thinking. He has dragged the dangers of Emotional Thinking out from whence it had carefully hidden itself. And Emotional Thinking is still thriving largely undiscussed except for on here.

    3. Gab says:

      Great comment NotMe! this is exactly how I feel about me as an empath. I am able to end the relationship, I will be sad about it for a month or two, I will cry in silence (because I love people I am with, even if there is no spark anymore I love them as Human beings, I miss them, I am nostalgic about good times together and if it is me who dump I worry if this person hurts. I don’t want them to hurt). But after some time I am totally fine.

      When someone breaks up with me I hurt very very much. But it it still me. More sad and unhappy but still me. After some time I am ok again. I find new hobbies, new people, I forget about the heartbreak.

      But break up from the narcissist is a whole different story. Why? Because you and up humiliated, with no self worth after abuse. It is no longer you. His abuse breaks your “self”. I gave my narcissist 100% of me. He took everything. Everything what was good about me. My every drop of love, compassion, everything. Nothing left. And he is the only man who told me in the end that I am not enough, that I don’t know how to behave in relationship, how to be a good partner. He told me I have NO SKILLS to be in a relationship. That I am not enough as a woman and as a partner. Everything was a lie, gaslightning and projection. But it hurt me like a hell.

      Healing from this break up was nothing like healing from other break ups. I had to build myself again because he destroyed my personality, the sense of “me”.

  10. NotMe! says:

    Would the results not change over time? By that, I mean would empaths not answer differently depending on their state of well-being, self-esteem, confidence at the time of the consult? I ask this as, currently in a shaken state, I find my empathic traits of trust, compassion, healing, truth seeking and justice etc. significantly depleted, not only in regard to the N but also in general. Narky traits, even entitlement are raised. Thanks.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      No, the test is calibrated for this.

      1. NotMe! says:

        I understand, thank you

        1. HG Tudor says:


      2. Bibi 🍷 says:

        Have you ever had someone receive a narcissist as result?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          For the EDC? Yes.

          1. Bibi 🍷 says:

            Oh dear.

          2. Dolores Haze says:

            I must admit I was so scared my EDC would come back as a Narcissist 🤭 Couldn’t have been further from the truth, it turned out 🤫

          3. K says:

            No surprise there.

          4. Bibi says:

            My fear is that I am a bloody Mid Ranger and don’t know it. LOL But seriously, to be something and not know it is just scary.

            I can imagine that those receiving that assessment might not take it too well?

          5. FoolMe1Time says:

            Bibi my guess is that they wouldn’t believe the results are correct unless they would be a greater, don’t you think?

          6. HG Tudor says:

            And a Greater would never ask.

          7. FoolMe1Time says:

            I wouldn’t think a Greater would even have it done at all HG? Oh unless it benefited them or their was fuel involved, even with that though they would blow their cover. Correct HG?

          8. HG Tudor says:

            They would not do it.

          9. FoolMe1Time says:

            I didn’t think so HG. Thanks for confirming.

          10. Renarde says:


            For the EDC? Yes

            You know, I’ve been thinking about this point too. How on EARTH do you handle that? I mean, what do you say? It’s not just the email consults but audios too.

            The reason I’m going down that path is that in the New Year, I will be running a one of workshop on healing. My partner signposted one of his female friends to me as he felt it works be beneficial for her. Kind thought. No question.

            However, a quick whizz around her profile and. ..its a nope from me! She has every makings of a nightmare.

            But then, I cannot stop her, or anyone attending the event. I could do that certainly when I ran London Sub Sisters but not this. I have to remain fair and impartial. However it’s very possible and indeed probable that a MN female will rock up. If in especially lucky, I night get lesser males. Jesus.

            This train of thought led me to the inevitable question that some will ask, am I an Empath? I know how I will handle this because I will make it VERY clear at the start I do not diagnose. If they want that; they go to you a d I will clearly signpost. You are the expert. Not me. This is a massive ‘Get out of jail card’ for me Cheers boss!

            I will be keeping the little fox ears pricked up though .

    2. Dolores Haze says:

      NotMe!, I was wondering the same thing, but didn’t dare to ask. I’m a new mom & all hormonal, so I spoke a lot about my kids and family values etc; normally I’m a corporate chick who’s very into parties 🎉

      1. NotMe! says:

        Delores, I can’t imagine what going through this is like for a new mum with more emotional maelstrom than usual. You’re very brave; stay strong mother tiger x

        1. Dolores Haze says:

          Dear NotMe!, I’m embarrassed to admit that the Narc in question is not my husband and father of my children, who is on the contrary a wonderful person and treats me well. I’m weeping after another man, a DLS. So I’m a bad girl and brought it on myself; other people here with a primary relationship with an abusive person deserve sympathy and support. I deserve a good spanking.

          1. NotMe! says:

            You were still ensnared and are deserving of support Delores x as for spanking? I think that is on another thread!

          2. Dolores Haze says:

            Which thread? Which thread?? Because on “Putting the Sex” people already talk about baking.

          3. K says:

            Dolores Haze
            Ha ha ha…here’s the thread. Enjoy!


          4. Lorelei says:

            What in the heck is spanked? Email someone at spanked and get spanked? The picture was naughty enough! I’m ok.

          5. K says:

            Dirty Birdy; you want to be spanked.

          6. njfilly says:

            Did somebody mention spanking??!

          7. K says:

            Do you want to be spanked too??!

          8. njfilly says:


          9. Lorelei says:

            Oh no spanking! Haha.

          10. K says:

            Pssst…Lorelei, I don’t think you are a Narcissist.

          11. Lorelei says:

            Shhhh! K—don’t spoil this.

          12. K says:

            Oops! Ha ha ha…ok, have fun with it!

          13. Lorelei says:

            I can’t even recall what I told you not to spoil! But I’m having fun anyway I guess.

          14. K says:

            Ha ha ha…that’s your compartmentalization at work (JK). Just enjoy the moment.

          15. Lorelei says:

            Be nice or on a shelf you go K!!

          16. K says:

            Uh-oh, I sense a Corrective Devaluation coming.

          17. Lorelei says:

            K—I had to get off that thread. I’m not going back or to even read.. I found where to reply to you elsewhere because I stumbled upon something I think may be of interest. We don’t really eat out or do television so I was looking for fun ideas for Christmas. Look up the adventure challenge. Someone at work suggested it and I got the family version without the camera or scrap book thing. (I’m sure it would have been nice but it was getting too $$ with the bells and whistles)
            I know someone that has the couples edition and they like it quite a bit. I got it for all the kids to open together. This summer these kids are going to experience rafting and climbing too at a state park. I thank Narcsite for the ability to parent with intention and purpose.

          18. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Oh come on! Welcome to the DE club, DH.

          19. Lorelei says:

            Me too, me too

          20. Dolores Haze says:

            Dear Lorelei, it’s already November 18 in my corner of Europe; so, on behalf of DE division – happy birthday, scintillating one! 🥳

          21. Lorelei says:

            Scintillating is not on the menu! I’m going to take a group of 12 year olds to an outdoor mall. (My daughters bday too)
            Shoot me now!

  11. Dolores Haze says:

    I’m so glad I took this “test”, and I highly recommend it to anyone who isn’t sure where to begin in the quest of getting rid of narcissistic abuse. Start with the (wo)man in the mirror. When you learn who you are, you learn whom you attract, it all starts making more sense and you take it from there.

    Hi, I’m Dolores, a Martyr-Geyser Codependent-Standard, and I’m a Narcissist-oholic.

    1. EmP says:

      Wow, all flavours of empaths out there and so many combinations..
      I say the attention given to the ‘Empath’ group is undoubtedly one of the things that sets HG’s work apart from that of the supposed experts. Had anyone else even mentioned empaths when discussing narcissism? Codependents maybe, but we are not all codependents.

      On a different note, Dolores, I really like your name: intense, dramatic and exotic-sounding.

      1. Dolores Haze says:

        Thank you, EmP! My real name is even more intense and dramatic, methinks. Dolores Haze is Nabokov’s Lolita, you probably figured it out.

        Good point regarding the Empath group in others’ work. As far as I can tell, everyone else is focusing solely on narcissism (getting it wrong most of the time). Only HG speaks about the two it takes to tango.

        1. EmP says:

          Oh noooooo! I DID think Dolores was your real name. I genuinely like it (also, I live in Spain so that may be part of the reason).

        2. Violetta says:

          My sin, my soul. Lo-lee-ta: the tip of the tongue taking a trip of three steps down the palate to tap, at three, on the teeth. Lo. Lee. Ta. She was Lo, plain Lo, in the morning, standing four feet ten in one sock. She was Lola in slacks. She was Dolly at school. She was Dolores on the dotted line. But in my arms she was always Lolita.

          – Nabokov, of course

          1. Violetta: Don`t hold back on Phantom: What were you going to say. Are you speaking of Phantom of the Opera, or something else. I feel like the only person remaining that has not seen Phantom of the Opera, in NYC. I do not know the ending (I know I could google it, but I do not want to), but I am sure it would be a tragedy. It also reminds me of the dynamic of the Narcississt I am/was enamored with, but in reverse. I was always defending him when he was not around, from all enemies both foreign and domestic. He was the star. I lived mostly in the rafters. So our gender roles were switched from the Broadway work in that he was the talented beauty, and I was the besotted and` disfigured one.` So, for the past few years I deliberated on going to see it, because of my dynamic and to see if `my` character ( the male that is wearing the mask of disfiguration in the original work) would be killed in the end, and to see if his character, the talented Star (the female in the original work), would ride off into the sunset. What were you going to say about Phantom?

      2. K says:

        I couldn’t agree with you more. The experts are remiss with regard to empaths.

        1. EmP says:

          And now guess what K? Everyone either is, or wants to be, an empath.
          It has become a ‘buzzword’ – but before HG who really talked about us?

          Embracing my strong narcissistic traits, I hope HG decides to publish a book EXCLUSIVELY dedicated to Empaths (after all, he knows us better than we know ourselves).

          1. HG Tudor says:

            There will be several

          2. EmP says:

            This is excellent news. Can’t wait!!

          3. Lorelei says:

            HG—how do you know so much about empaths if you only entangle with co-depend. and the ones you refer to as having more toe to toe action? This is in reference to you stating work on a book. Was your father one to counter your mother? What was he?

          4. HG Tudor says:

            Because I ensnare all kinds of empath.

          5. Lorelei says:

            HG—I understand. It’s a bit of a buffet.

          6. K says:

            Here’s an answer to part of your question.

            kaydiva3 says:
            September 9, 2019 at 04:08
            HG, what type of empath was your father?

            HG Tudor says:
            September 16, 2019 at 11:04


          7. Lorelei says:

            Thanks K. You are quite good at finding the needle in the haystack. That would be a rather fitting name for you!!

          8. K says:

            My pleasure Lorelei!
            Ha ha ha….my secret code name on instagram is theneedle11 but don’t tell anyone.

          9. Lorelei says:

            Yes I know—I figured it out goofball.

          10. K says:

            Ha ha ha….I was trying to be cloak & dagger.

          11. Lorelei says:

            But you like my pictures which is sweet!

          12. K says:

            Of course I like them! I don’t go on very often but I was cruising around the Instagram the other day and looking at all the pics. I enjoyed it.

          13. Lorelei says:

            You were re-added K—check it out!

          14. Lorelei says:

            (Long story)

          15. K says:

            No one ever talked about Empaths much at all. Before HG (BHG) I had never heard of Empaths. Of course I knew about empathy, sympathy, etc. but not the term: Empath.

            Initially, I had mixed feelings about being one and, the more I read, I realized I had many narcissistic traits, as well, that needed to be looked at. I am definitely looking forward to HG’s books about Empaths because, in some ways, empaths are really cool.

          16. Lorelei says:

            K—I had never heard of such a thing either. I’m sorry about your parents—you are quite bright, it’s obvious. What fostered this since they clearly did not provide a good influence?

          17. K says:

            Thank you Lorelei
            Empaths? Who’d a thunk it?

            The LOCE was pretty bad so I am gonna go with GDP as an explanation for how my personality turned out.

          18. EmP says:

            K, I have always wondered why I turned out to be an Empath regardless of being surrounded by an entire family of Narcissists (and not having any real positive influences around). I credit my late maternal grandmother’s empathic genes because I can’t find any other explanations.

            I don’t remember “choosing” to be an empath, but I do remember feeling compelled to help. Always.

            Example: in elementary school there was this boy, S., who would cry his eyes out for pretty much anything. Once, I might have been 7 or 8, teachers took us on a field trip. I was at my happiest, I loved the feeling of freedom and, most of all, I loved not having my parents around.
            S. on the other hand would not stop crying, saying he wanted his mum, that he wanted to go back, etc. he was desperate. So I sat next to him, gave him my handkerchief to wipe away his tears (we used handkerchiefs in the 80s..) and told him not to worry, that he would see his mum soon enough, that we were in a very nice place, we were going to have a good time, etc. He did calm down.

            I had never witnessed such a behaviour in my household.

          19. K says:

            It was a total mystery until I learned here on narcsite that it was GPD (not GDP) and then it all made perfect sense.

            None of us chose to be Empaths (or Narcissists). My empath sister and I were always on the same side, while our other two siblings and mother (and father) were against us (triangulation).

            You are very kind like my youngest daughter. Your comforting words, sitting next to S and sharing your handkerchief with him was a tremendous display of empathy for a 7-8 year-old child. It’s amazing when you think about how empathy works and it’s equally amazing that others don’t have access to it.

            I loved being away from my home, too. Our homes were not safe places and there was no kindness there.

          20. EmP says:

            Thank you K!!
            I still can’t stand the sight of somebody crying (unless it’s a Mid-ranger..) and I need to do something.

            Yes, no kindness or safety inside a Narcissist’s home.

          21. K says:

            My pleasure EmP!
            None whatsoever.

          22. Lorelei says:

            What is GPD?

          23. K says:

            Genetic predisposition. The acronym list is located at the top of the blog under: Formal Info. Also, this article covers GPD.


          24. Lorelei says:

            Thanks K!

          25. K says:

            My pleasure Lorelei!
            I will check with my IT Experts (my children) and get back to you re: emails via the app.

          26. Lorelei says:

            K—by the way.. I unsubscribed as you suggested I try and I’m still getting notifications via the app. I can’t handle the emails!

          27. Bibi says:


            Are you a Standard or Super? I never heard of empaths either, as I assumed that was someone with magical clairvoyant powers. Is that the word? Too lazy to Google. Oh God, hopefully I am not a Lesser! LOL

            My dad was a Lesser Sociopath and my poor mom a Standard. Their relationship was filled with his abuse. He gave her the silent treatment for a year and when her dad died, he offered no comfort. He was horrible to her.

            I asked her about lovebombing. Mom, did he do anything to really win you over in the beginning? I asked.

            Apparently on their 1st date it was at a university football game and he actually took her to see it via an airplane–that is, he flew her over the stadium.

            My dad could fly planes, travel the world in a boat and fix about anything, but he could barely write sentences. His intellect was almost autistic-like. He was so very bad with emotions.

            I remember when my friends’ dads acted normally. Oh, you mean they don’t punch holes in walls when things go wrong?

            My childhood…ugh.

          28. K says:

            I am a Standard Empath, Cadres: DEMB, carrier.

            Both of my parents were/are Lower Lesser Narcissists and they were very violent. My father was in the US Navy and he was ship electrician; he wasn’t really an idiot but he was very violent and a massive alcoholic. My mother dropped out of school and she is an idiot.

            Ha ha ha… double ugh!

          29. Sweetest Perfection says:

            K you are one of mine? I didn’t know!

          30. K says:

            Sweetest Perfection
            Ha ha ha…I am an excellent combination of the warm and fuzzies and the cold and haties (bastardized spelling of hate).

          31. Sweetest Perfection says:

            K, I was referring more to the standard DE Carrier group, but yep I’m also either loving you to death or wishing your death in a minute. HAHA.

          32. K says:

            Sweetest Perfection
            Ha ha ha…don’t you just love those love/hate relationships!

            I want you dead but I really love you. The contrast is great!

          33. Sweetest Perfection says:

            K, it’s not the relationships, it’s my character! Hahaha

          34. K says:

            Sweetest Perfection
            Ha ha ha…like a narcissist on the left shoulder and an empath on the right. It’s all about the balance.

          35. Sweetest Perfection says:

            “Get the Balance Right.”

          36. K says:

            Sweetest Perfection

            “Concerned and caring, help the helpless
            But always remain ultimately selfish”

          37. Sweetest Perfection says:

            “ Straight down the middle until next Thursday” !!!!

          38. K says:

            “First to the left, then back to the right
            Twist and turn ’til you’ve got it right”

            The lyrics portray the Narcissistic dynamic very well.

          39. njfilly says:

            Which is which?

          40. K says:

            When I am here, I am usually warm and fuzzy because I feel safe. IRL I may be more defensive so the cold and haties will present. My behavior is context driven; instinct. I tend to behave like a warrior.

            Depending on my mood, sometimes, I am Brienne of Tarth.

            When I use the C-word, I am The Hound (GOT).

            When I want heads to roll, I am Michonne from The Walking Dead.

          41. njfilly says:

            Thank you for your response, K.

            Unfortunately, I have no idea who those characters are as I don’t watch GOT or The Walking Dead. I rarely watch any TV. I did watch several episodes of GOT season 7 one Saturday. I enjoyed it.

            With regard to my comment which is which; I thought you were referring your warm and fuzzy-cold and hatie to a cadre of empath, so I was wondering which you considered which.

          42. K says:

            Ha ha ha…sorry about the confusion. I misread SP’s comment.

            I was referring to my personality in general which is a combo of the warm and fuzzies and the cold and haties, not a cadre.

            GOT was awesome and the books are great, too.

          43. njfilly says:


            My own personality is also a cocktail.

            The episodes of GOT I watched I enjoyed.

          44. K says:

            Ha ha ha…Hanky-panky, Bacardi or Molotove cocktail? We are all wired to be unique and I think that’s a good thing.

            I loved Tyrion Lannister! He was a smartass.

          45. njfilly says:

            I see he’s a GOT character. (I had to look that up because I didn’t know that)

          46. K says:

            Tyrion was a riot!

          47. njfilly says:

            I’ll take your word for it! But from the episodes I watched, yes I like him.

            The only TV show I watch, Vikings, starts in December. I can’t wait.

          48. K says:

            I only watched season one of Vikings so I have some catching up to do. Jamie Lannister was another good character on GOT.

          49. njfilly says:

            Oh yes. I did have to look that character up, but yes.

            I love the Vikings. They are like the Bikers of Old. I am drawn to societal outlaws.

          50. K says:

            Societal outlaws are seductive.

          51. njfilly says:

            Yes I agree.

          52. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Njfilly, happy birthday, Carrier sister! Hope you have a wonderful day full of laughs and celebration -and some spanking-!! 🥂

          53. njfilly says:

            Thank you SweetP! That was very thoughtful of you.

            Yes, I will get spanked. (First I will have to be naughty).

          54. K says:

            Ha ha ha…I think I may have misread your comment, as well. I hope I didn’t confuse you!

          55. njfilly says:

            No problem.

          56. K says:

            Sweetest Perfection
            Ha ha ha…I did misread your comment. I thought it was: you are not one of mine (empath).

            I thought your were being cheeky.

          57. Mercy says:

            I have huge respect for the empaths here that come from narc families. I can’t imagine the strength it takes to break away from an environment like that. I know a couple of empaths that are grown adults and still being manipulated by their parents and now their partners. From the outside looking in, I see they are not capable of making decisions on their own. It’s very sad that they don’t understand it’s not normal for people to have that much control over their lives.

          58. K says:

            The children become the parent/or proxy spouse and, sometimes, never break free until the narcissistic parent dies.

          59. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Mercy, in my case I could put an ocean between my parents’ toxicity -my dad’s a narc for sure now that I know better, and my mom probably a co-dependent or maybe a victim narc, I don’t know- but I can’t break ties with them. I visit them during Christmas, and the toxic environment is too much for me to handle. My dad’s an alcoholic, he used to be violent but not anymore. My mom resents having been with him all her life and can’t stop complaining about it every time I visit. I often escape to my little brother’s to recharge my energy, he’s an empath too and we adore each other. My parents are extremely manipulative. When my sister joins the group I want to bang my head on a wall. She’s the golden girl and the highest in toxicity. Yay, home sweet home!

          60. Mercy says:

            Sweet P, I think recognizing what you came from shows strength. You and the others here could have said “this is my life” but from the comments, I can tell that some of the most intelligent and successful empaths here came from narcissistic families. I think some that were born into it may take for granted their successes because you never knew life beyond the abuse. The fact that, as adults, you chose to survive rather than to live life as a victim is courageous.

          61. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Thank you, Mercy. In my family it was a question of wanting to excel more than survive. Wanting to stand out was mocked with cruel jokes and sarcastic comments. It still is. When I was invited last spring to give a professional talk in my home country, I appeared in one of the newspapers. I showed it to them. My father put it away. Nobody asked me how it went. My parents never praised us for anything we did or talked to their friends about us like other parents do. It’s a question of developing a thick skin and moving on. I didn’t know what my father is until recently. It is hard to accept but at least, now I know why he’s so absolutely egotistical and doesn’t show many emotions. He also loves pity plays and blame shifting or gaslighting. He knows that I am the most emotional one so he tries to make me explode, sometimes he makes fun of my job, he says things like “for being such an intellectual you are quite stupid”’or when he knows nothing gets me, he criticizes my husband, or declares how much he wishes my country had someone like Trump because he knows it gets on my last nerve. It’s one toxic game after the other. When I am visiting, I try to escape to my brother’s; he’s an Empath too and we adore each other, that way I disconnect for a while.

          62. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Sorry for repeating myself, Mercy. I wasn’t that sure I sent the previous comment because there was a weird glitch in my phone so I tried to write it again and now it looks like I have dementia hahaha!!! Oops!!!

          63. Mercy says:

            I forgot to ask, any update on your drive by stalker?

          64. Sweetest Perfection says:

            No updates, Mercy. I went for a run today looking around like an owl in case I saw him, but I didn’t. The lecture is Wednesday and there’s an event on Thursday that, if he wants to run into me, he knows I wouldn’t miss for anything in the world. If he’s here and he wants to hoover he has it easy. So I predict a hard week! I’ll keep you informed, thanks for asking.

          65. Dolores Haze says:

            Rooting for you, SP! Hoping your lecture is a huge success and you make ET your bitch.

          66. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Thank you, Lolita! I mean, DH! Haha. I’m gonna repeat that as a mantra: ET is my bitch, ET is my bitch….

          67. Dolores Haze says:

            SweetP, how did your lecture go today? I’m sure you were magnificent! Did the one who shall not be named turn up?

          68. Sweetest Perfection says:

            It’s not until later this evening, DH. I’m planking to get the stress out of my system so that if I run into him I’ll be so tired and sore it won’t really matter.

          69. Kim e says:

            SP. Let us know his reaction when you ignore him. I need a laugh today. Plank away……………………

          70. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Friends, success!!!! He wasn’t there (relief), the lecture went very well, I received a lot of praise, and they thanked me with two bottles of Moët & Chandon Imperial Brut. I’m super happy and ready to relax tomorrow and enjoy my special event. Thanks for the interest and the support! Love you guys 😘

          71. Kim e says:

            SP excellent news. I can hear the relief. Enjoy the drink. You earned it more than the people who gave it to you will ever know 🍾🍾

          72. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Uh-oh! I’m keeping it for tomorrow! Thank you so much! 😘

          73. FYC says:

            Happy for you Sweet P. Move that N to the far reaches of your distant memory. I bet you gave a great speech too.

          74. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Thank you, FYC. It turned out wonderful. Move whom out of my memory??

          75. FYC says:

            SP, Your ex N. Weren’t you afraid he would show at your event but he did not? So I was figuring, now you can sweep him from your memory banks. If I mixed up two different events I can see why you were confused! Regardless I am happy for you.

          76. Sweetest Perfection says:

            FYC, haha no, you weren’t confused, I was just being silly, like when people used to ask HG about Kim and he acted like he didn’t know her by asking “who”? Same with stalking narc. At a moment I thought of the hoovering game HG describes in the hoover shuffle, when there’s a situation that the narc knows that you think it’s perfect for a hoover and then he doesn’t hoover knowing that you would wonder why… but in the middle of this I said to myself “why am I still even thinking of this? He’s not here. Fantastic. Now move on.”

          77. FYC says:

            Sweet P, Hahaha, I was operating on little sleep so I took you literally. Indeed who?!!

          78. Dolores Haze says:

            Wonderful news, SP! Congratulations, well done 👍

          79. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Thank you, DH!! The truth is that you guys helped me battle any anxiety otherwise I know I would have suffered with so much suspense. I was looking forward to posting about it and letting you all know after it was done. Thanks to everyone 😘

          80. Mercy says:

            Good luck with the lecture and enjoy the event Thursday. Pretend he’s not there, you deserve to enjoy yourself without thought of him.

          81. HG Tudor says:

            Sensible observation.

          82. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Thank you, Mercy. So very true! 😘

          83. Kim e says:

            SP. good luck this week. Stay strong and enjoy your function Thursday.

          84. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Thanks so much for the good wishes, Kim e. I can do this! 😘

          85. njfilly says:


            I didn’t realize DEMB was a cadre. I thought it was more like a sub-set which could include all cadres. I am also a DEMB.

          86. K says:

            Welcome to the DEMB Club! There’s lots of us.

            After I posted the comment, I thought I was mistaken (is it a Strand?), so I checked the Dirty Empath article and, sure enough, it stated that Dirty Empath was a Cadre.


          87. njfilly says:


            That’s interesting. I did have the empath detector consultation and I am a Carrier Super Empath. Mr. Tudor did not mention the cadre DEMB, although perhaps that’s a self-explanatory additional cadre.

            Also, not that I didn’t believe you, but I just checked the acronyms page and DEMB is not listed under empath cadres, but under additional frequently used acronyms. (I sometimes get a little technical about details).

            On a completely unrelated issue, maybe we should all stop commenting on the blog for a few days as Mr. HG Tudor has some books he needs to finish. I am (im)patiently waiting for Asylum of the Grotesque.

          88. K says:

            The article The Dirty Empath-Infidelity explains it very well. I did check Formal Info and you are correct re: the placement of DEMB.

            I am eagerly waiting for Asylum of the Grotesque, as well, and would gladly stop posting to hasten its release.

          89. Mercy says:


            Just when I get schools and cadres down now there are strands?? I’m going to have to get the notebook out again.

          90. K says:

            Ha ha ha…back to class for you; get that note book out and start taking notes!

          91. Lorelei says:

            DEMB? I’m so lost!

          92. K says:

            This article explains it very well.


          93. HG Tudor says:

            Remember, when you say Dirty Empath, it has to be said with a Brooklyn accent.

          94. K says:

            Ha ha ha…reminded me of My Cousin Vinny and the Two “Yutes” scene.

          95. Bibi says:


            I love your honesty. Re: Idiot. My dad was also a Lower Lesser. Thankfully I had an empath mom. My life might have been fucked otherwise.

            My dad was not an alcoholic–he prided himself on not drinking but that was because apparently when he was young he did drink and he used to get into brawls, which meant a loss of control.

            He used to curse God and Jesus when he could not get a cabinet to assemble. WTF? He used to talk to himself very violently in the mirror and then pop out and say! Yay! Let’s go have fun!

            He would mumble hateful things under his breath all the time. There is so much I could say.

          96. K says:

            Thank you Bibi!

            Ha ha ha…not a lot of people appreciate my honesty. My father got into lots of fights, too. He had his last bar room fight at the age of 81 and he was promptly arrested and thrown into the clink, however, he did bail himself out.

            I think your father’s cursing, mumbling and talking violently to himself in the mirror was his hatred/contempt coming to the fore, and popping out and saying: Yay! Let’s go have fun! Is indicative of his split thinking.

            This might sound weird but mumbling is a from of control, as well as, the cursing and violent talk.

            I bet you could write a book.

          97. Bibi says:

            Thank you, K. I actually have written a few early works involving my dad. Those that involve my father were completed oh, a good decade or more so ago and my intention was not to ‘show a narcissist in action,’ b/c even though I knew he had to be a sociopath, I still did not fully realize what that was, then.

            (That was WAY pre HG. What were you even up to, then, HG? No wonder I was ensnared by that Mid Range twit. You were no where to be found! LOL)

            I actually still have some empathy for him, in that how sad it is he pushed everyone away–my mom, me, his family. I was very lonely as a kid–I retreated into the imagination and read and watched every bad film ever made in the 1980s. He had a lot of potential–he had this entrepreneur thing in him where he wanted to run his own business, but he could never put in the hours.

            With his troubleshooting skills and mechanical aptitude he could have run his own AC business in South Florida where everyone needs it. That is about the most he could have done, as he did not have the aptitude for art or writing. I only ever now mention him on occasion on this site.

            He used to tell me old stories involving growing up in the rough side of Chicago in the early 1950s. I wish I could recall them in more detail. He was a vivid person, albeit very abusive. He claimed to actually know someone named ‘Bugsy’. How many can claim to have known someone named ‘Bugsy’?

          98. K says:

            My pleasure, Bibi
            You could write a memoir starting with your childhood and working your way up to discovering HG and narcsite.

            The ability to feel compassion/sadness for our narcissists is one of the strangest things that I have realized here. It’s sad to think of our parents being abused and the lost potential, relationships, jobs and generations of child abuse. Many Lesser narcissists are too hostile to maintain decent fuel matrices/jobs and often end up alone and isolated and this sad to witness.

            I watched many of those bad 80s films, too, but I did like The Goonies and The Breakfast Club.

            Ha ha ha…not many people can claim to know someone named Bugsy.

          99. Bibi says:

            Aw, dad was a codependent. I suspected that or Standard. The poor, sweet man. HG, did you get on better with your dad? I am interested in knowing more, as I know your mom was an UMR Elitist.

          100. HG Tudor says:

            I will be writing about the family Tudor in future works.

          101. Violetta says:

            “Remember, when you say Dirty Empath, it has to be said with a Brooklyn accent.”

            The Empath that had these two, equal-length affairs had Dirty Fuel. You can’t have those affairs without Dirty Fuel, which was not available on the Carrier Empath!

            It’s a limited slip differential which distributes power equally to both the Empath traits and the Narcy traits. The Carrier Empath had a regular differential, which, anyone who’s been stuck in the mud in Alabama knows, you step on the gas, one Empath spins, the other Empath does nothing.

          102. Bibi says:


            Some of the bad films include Superman IV, Rocky III (or IV, I don’t recall and at this point it does not matter), Poltergeist III, Jaws IV: “The Revenge” (which involves the shark seeking revenge on the same family in a different part of the world yet I think the shark died in the 1st one, so this is a child of the shark who just knows who it needs to seek revenge upon), Howard the Duck, Critters, which is a rip off of the more successful Gremlins, The Stuff, which is a rip off of The Blob and I think they even made a remake of the The Blob in the 80s, which I did see in the theatre.

            I watched all the Jaws ripoffs like Piranha (that came on a Saturday matinee at my grandma’s house) and Barracuda oh and then Teen Wolf but even worse they made a sequel to it. Then all those bad horror films which I understand has a kitsch appeal but I don’t know if they realized it when they were making it. Everything that starred Madonna,

            And on and on.

          103. K says:

            Oh boy! Those were really dreadful films. I fell asleep during Fresh Horses starring Molly Ringwald and Andrew McCarthy and The Chucky films were pretty bad, too! Ha ha ha…the 80s did have some pretty bad films when you think about it.

          104. Violetta says:


            “Desperately Seeking Susan” was pretty good, but Madonna didn’t have to act in that one, just be mysterious and East Village Cool. The humor and the emotional deadness of Arquette’s suburban life were carried by everyone else.

            Her deficiencies were more obvious in “Who’s That Girl.” It should have been a similar non-serious riff on the clash between Boho and Buttoned-down Respectability, but she had a larger role. It required at least SOME range, and she just doesn’t have any.

          105. HG Tudor says:

            Did not have to act? She only acts, Violetta when she does not think she needs to act.

          106. Bibi says:

            Good one, HG.

            Violetta: I agree about Susan, that Rosanna pretty much carried that film. I did see “Who’s That Girl” in the theatre no less. And Shanghai Surprise. LOL

          107. HG Tudor says:

            I watched Evita.

            If I did not rule it already, I would burn in hell for doing so.

          108. Violetta says:

            Where is Madge on the NarcMeter, HG? Besides aging and unable to accept it. (Apparently, she’s having trouble hooking up at clubs, which never used to happen.)

          109. HG Tudor says:

            Oh she is on it Violetta, as you would expect.

          110. Violetta says:

            You’d think Madge could have handled Eva Peron as written: limited-talent manipulator who shagged her way to the top based solely on image. Or maybe that’s why she couldn’t. Too close to home.

            For comparison, watch Madonna’s rendition of “A New Argentina.”

            Then watch Patti LuPone’s. (Both versions used to be on YT.)

            You’ll notice that when Patti sings “We’ll … you’ll be handed power on a plate” to Peron, her Evita is very aware that she almost went too far, and has to circle back a bit

            When Madonna sang the same line, you won’t have noticed anything. SHE didn’t. There is NOTHING there. A manipulator who can’t play manipulation.

            Again, when Patti sings, “he supports you, for he loves you, understands you, is one of you,” she’s like a force of nature. I want to join anything she’s part of, even if I know the truth.

            With Madonna, you are impressed that she hit the high note. You may also notice that it’s the same note, and only the chord progression in back changes, giving each phrase a different edge. You might not have noticed that with Patti, because she changes her intensity with the chords, so the music and the emphasis are fused.

            H’wood versions of stage musicals are often pretty lame. (Don’t get me started about “Phantom.”)

          111. NotMe! says:

            Awww I wanted to be in the Dirty Empath club, that was the coolest sounding cadre, but looking at that article I don’t think I can be. Never been unfaithful no matter how much I was tempted. Bugger!

          112. K says:

            It’s a cool Cadre; The Dirty Empath Club is where it’s at. If you have fantasized about cheating then you can apply for membership.

            Dear Reader, I am just being facetious; there is no DEC.


          113. Violetta says:

            NJ Filly, have you checked out any historical reenactors? Some of them do Viking and are bikers.

          114. Violetta says:

            Sweet P:
            Congrats both on a successful presentation and on not having to deal with whatsisname.

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