No Contact? No, It’s Not! – Part One

NO CONTACT_ NO, IT'S NOT p1

No contact is the Holy Grail. It is a state of affairs, a place of being and the absolute answer to any and all ensnarement with our kind. You must strive for it, impose it and maintain it.

Yet, so many claim they have achieved this nirvana but they have not done so. Many assert they have implemented a no contact regime and then ask – why am I still being hoovered through his telephone calls? Others state that they are applying no contact but the narcissist keeps coming over to talk to them and they feel helpless to stop this and want to know why this keeps happening.

It is because it is not no contact.

This may seem obvious to some of you reading but do understand that the regularity by which I encounter such observations and questions demonstrates two matters very clearly :-

  1. A large number of people do not truly understand what no contact really is ; and
  2. Emotional thinking and its power over people causes them to allow holes in their no contact defence so that is actually does not become a no contact defence at all or even anything close.

With regard to the first point, I understand how this comes about. In part it is because a number of commentators who advocate no contact do not understand themselves what it really means. They also do not understand our kind and therefore if they do not understand narcissists, how can they then advise victims effectively with regard to no contact (and so much more as it happens with regards to the narcissistic dynamic)? They fail to realise how we attack no contact, they fail to realise how no contact is so much more than just staying away from a physical interaction with the narcissist. Of course, some of these commentators have no actual experience with regard to our kind and therefore they have no position of expertise, furthermore, some have had the interaction but they are falling prey to their own emotional thinking which means that they fail to advocate the proper and total no contact regime and/or they ‘allow’ certain forms of interaction not realising this breaches no contact and/or they regard it as permissible and without actual consequence. No contact is a serious matter. It is THE solution to the problem of ensnarement with our kind and must be addressed properly and resolutely and the only way of doing this is accord with what I explain to you and to apply it completely. Nobody else is capable of giving you the absolute correct and proper information to ensure you are protected and able to march towards recovery with due expedience.

So, let us examine various situations which are common with regard to victims and their attempts to implement no contact. This series will embrace a wide range of scenarios thus enabling you to realise that you are in fact breaching no contact (and you may be surprised to realise that you were) and moreover what the consequences of such a breach are (whether you knew it was a breach or not).

Let’s begin with physical interaction with the narcissist and by that I am referring to a direct physical interaction whereby you and the narcissist are in the same space.

  1. Physical interaction

Most people at least recognise that physical interaction with the narcissist is breaching no contact. However, there are still a number who seek to split hairs when it comes to a physical interaction with the narcissist and of course that is being driven by emotional thinking which will con a victim into thinking that the interaction is somehow ‘okay’ or is not a ‘real breach’ of no contact. It is not okay and yes, it is a real breach of no contact.

The First Golden Rule of Freedom is the most important one. It is also the easiest one to remember, the easiest one to test your behaviour against but often hard to implement (because of emotional thinking wanting to feed your addiction to the narcissist by making you engage with us further). This rule is ‘Once you know, you go – you get out and you stay out.’

Thus, you must consider your proposed behaviour and if it offends this rule then your proposed behaviour must not be executed and anything which tells you that you should, tries to tell you to ignore this rule, tries to suggest it is somehow permissible to offend this rule is a product of emotional thinking. It is not acceptable, it is not permissible, it is not an exception, a loop-hole, a merited deviation – it is emotional thinking. Pure and simple.

Accordingly, if you find yourself thinking (or worse doing) something whereby you will physically interact with the narcissist or you are physically interacting with the narcissist then you are breaching the rule, you are being controlled by emotional thinking and you must not do it and/or you must halt the interaction.

If you are intermittently spending time with the narcissist in some way, even if this is vastly reduced from the amount of time which you used to spend, this is not no contact. You are entering the narcissist’s sphere of influence, this causes a Hoover Trigger and therefore there is a risk that a hoover (if the Hoover Execution Criteria (“HEC”) are met) will follow. You may think that it is obvious that a hoover will occur if you are in the same physical space as the narcissist but it is not a given. Yes, it often happens (after all – why would we reject such an easy opportunity to gather fuel from you) but there are instances where even if you come to speak to us, let’s say at a social gathering and thus you cause a Hoover Trigger, we will not execute the hoover (i.e. we will either walk away or remain and just ignore you) and thus there is no hoover. Any same space physical interaction with us breaches no contact. If you approach us to speak to us, even though you feel you are in control, you are breaching no contact. You are not in control however since you are breaching the first golden rule of freedom and thus you are being governed by your emotional thinking by approaching us.

If you are ‘ambushed’ by the narcissist. For instance, you are walking down the road and you turn the corner and the narcissist is in front of you or if the narcissist turns up unexpectedly at a corner, then no contact is also breached. If your emotional thinking has been lowered by a sustained period of total no contact, then you are highly likely to apply logic which is ‘Get Out, Stay Out’ and in the instance of being ambushed, you will actually just walk away as quickly as possible or if cornered you will ignore the narcissist and feel no problem at all in doing so. Any discomfort at such a response arises from your emotional thinking remaining high. It will be trying to corrupt your empathic trait of guilt into speaking to us or corrupting your empathic trait of decency, again to be polite to us. When you have your emotional thinking low and under control, you will respond with logic and that logic will mean you feel no guilt at ignoring us. It means you feel no compulsion to speak to us on the basis of being pleasant and civil. You will be cold, you will ignore us and thus you will wound us (which incidentally acts to raise the hoover bar making a future hoover less likely for a period of time). Thus, if you think it is acceptable to respond to the narcissist because he has ambushed you, this is a breach of no contact and therefore must not be done. It is not a case of it ‘not counting’ because he ambushed you as opposed to you approached the narcissist.

If you physically meet with the narcissist when handing over children as part of co-parenting, you are breaching no contact. You ought to look at utilising gate keepers (third parties) or if the children are old enough you can drop them at the garden gate and wait to ensure they go inside the narcissist’s house so you know they have arrived safely. There are a variety of different ways of effecting co-parenting without the necessity of any actual physical interaction with the narcissist parent. Whilst you may think that it is better that you are civil to one another, remember, you are dealing with a narcissist and if you have that physical interaction, even if it is ten minutes’ civil discussion then

a. You will be providing fuel – the narcissist is getting what he or she wants;

b. Owing to our black and white thinking you run the risk of being subjected to some form of unpleasant/abusive hoover; and

c. You are increasing your Emotional Thinking by having this engagement. The increase in your E.T. could result in a loss of insight with the consequential issues which arise from that.

Other common instances that arise where people believe they need to have some form of physical interaction with the narcissist include :-

  • “I need to deal with the narcissist because I am owed money by the narcissist” – No, you do not need to deal with the narcissist – get a third party to recover the money, go to law (often you have to anyway) or write it off;
  • “I need to recover property from the narcissist/return property” – No, you do not need to deal with the narcissist to address this. Again, involve a third party, go to law, forget about the property, post it back to the narcissist, have someone else return it etc
  • “I need answers from the narcissist so I can gain closure.” – No you do not. You will not get the answers, you will not get closure. I will give you the answers and you make your own closure – we will not grant it to you because that runs contrary to our interests
  • “I need to tell the narcissist what a bastard he or she is.” – No, you do not. You are just giving challenge fuel, heightening your own emotional thinking and kicking the hornet’s nest. “But it feels good doing this, I have wounded him” I hear you retort. No, you have not wounded the narcissist, you gave fuel. Yes, he may well have responded angrily but that was not the result of wounding, that was the need for him to respond to put down your act of rebellion by challenging him.  Yes, you may well feel good, feel better for tearing a strip off the narcissist but it ultimately acts against you – your ET has risen you have provided fuel and you run the risk of malign hoovers in response. It feels good because this is your ET conning you into doing it again and again and again to feed your addiction to the narcissist and this is not in your best interests. Apply the First Golden Rule of Freedom and you will see how you are breaching it.
  • “The sex is really good and I may as well get something out of it. I do not want anything more than the sex.” No, you may not as well get something out of it. Yes the sex may well be exceedingly good (it often is with our kind) but the thought process is flawed and the pleasure you get from engaging in repeated sexual engagement with the narcissist is dangerous. You are giving us what we want – fuel, you are feeding your addiction and maintaining your emotional thinking, you are exposing yourself to the potential for devaluation. You may think you have the upper hand, you may think you are ‘using’ the narcissist but this is emotional thinking at work again. It is utilising your narcissistic sense of pride to make you think that it is good to extract something from the narcissist. It is corrupting your empathic trait of justice making you think that you are getting your own back on us. You are not – you are offending the First Golden Rule of Freedom. I do not care if you think you have control – you do not (the fact you think you have control and ignoring the First Golden Rule of Freedom confirms you do not have control because you are being led by your emotional thinking). The risk to you is that your repeated engagement (which increases your emotional thinking) will cause you to reach a tipping point whereby you are ensnared again. This ensnarement does not necessarily mean going back into a formal relationship with us, but it means a continued engagement of some form where you have lost insight. It will happen and if you think that it will not, then guess what? Yes, you are succumbing to emotional thinking. You might be able to have sex the once and then walk away and never do it again but it is highly unlikely and therefore why take the risk? Your ET will be fighting hard, very hard, to make you engage with us and cause you to lose insight. Would you put your head in the lion’s mouth knowing there is a risk it might bite? No. Same applies to us – do not take a risk which is entirely unnecessary. Obey that golden rule and get out and stay out.
  • “I want the narcissist to see how much he has hurt me. He needs to know what he has done.” Pointless. We do not care. Your hurt, your anger, your misery, your upset – it is all more fuel and we will lap it up. You will get nothing out of it, save more manipulation, heightened emotional thinking and in all likelihood further ensnarement and with that more misery. Yes, you are hurt – showing that hurt to us serves no purpose. Again, your ET will be telling you to do it to make you feel better (you are unlikely to feel better and even if you do it will not last and there is a greater price to pay for that fleeting moment of illusionary improvement in how you feel).
  • “I can help the narcissist. He can change. He is a lost soul. He needs my help.” No, you cannot change the narcissist. You cannot help (but you can help yourself). Your emotional thinking is corrupting your compassion empathic trait, it is corrupting your trait of wanting to fix and to heal. Once again, by trying to use these traits to cause you to interact physically with the narcissist, all that is happening is that you are delivering control to the narcissist, you will provide fuel and you will heighten your emotional thinking further. You will run the risk of further devaluation or a malign hoover (dependent on where you are in the narcissistic dynamic).

It may seem obvious to some but many people still breach no contact by seeking and/or allowing physical interaction with the narcissist. Whether it is the narcissist coming to see you, the narcissist appearing in person through an ‘ambush’ or you seeking an audience with the narcissist in person – all of these are breaches of no contact and must not be carried out and if you have done any of them, they must not be repeated.

Any thinking which suggests that there is a good reason to allow such physical interaction to happen is emotional thinking and you must reject it immediately before it gets a hold on you (and it will if you keep allowing ET into your life) and greater adverse consequences occur as a result of you losing insight, failing to follow logic and falling prey to the disastrous influences of emotional thinking.

Remember, ET is not your friend. It is a con artist. It makes you think you are using logic when you are not. Reject it. Obey the First Golden Rule of Freedom.

 

 

25 thoughts on “No Contact? No, It’s Not! – Part One

  1. Harry says:

    I honestly don’t know if my sibling is mid-range or greater.

    I can’t escape them without going no contact with my family and because I act as their care-givers(disabled, no miracle cure on the horizon) i’m unable to do that.

    My family are quite aware of how the narc is but minimize and refuse to cut them out of our lives.

    Is there any way to get them to acknowledge how deep the problem goes(and how to solve it) or should I just arrange to be busy anytime I know they’ll be around?

    If I somehow figure out if they are mid-range or greater do I need to modify my tactics?

    Sorry for the question that has likely been answered elsewhere on the site, i’ve only recently found your work.
    Thanks

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hello Harry, I invite you to book a Narc Detector Consultation with me so you can ascertain whether your sibling is Mid Range or a Greater. Thereafter I can readily assist you through an audio consultation to address the question of establishing no contact based on which school the narcissist belongs to.

  2. Butterfly says:

    So…the “grey stone” method is not a valid option? If he is a coworker for example…shall I change my job?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It’s an option, but not a good one and you should aim to change your job wherever possible. Remember, where people often think ‘I cannot do that’ it is as a consequence of their emotional thinking as opposed to the application of logic. There will be times where logic is applied and you are not in a position to change job but that is far less often the case.

      1. Lou says:

        HG, if one changes jobs, and 1 in 6 people is a narcissist, the chances of having to deal with another narcissist in the new work place are quite high, aren’t they? I guess the decision of changing jobs depends on how bad the situation with the narcissist is in the workplace.
        My boss is a narcissist but I get along with him well. There is another female narc where I work who is quite destructive and with whom I have minimal contact. She is for the moment “under control”. Of course, most people in the workplace are “only” NISS and therefore the manipulations are “more tolerable”.
        I know there are situations in the workplace that are just terrible for the empath and that in such cases one should leave because, even if the chances of having to deal with another narc in the new workplace are high, at least there are chances that the situation will improve. Would you agree?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          One should always strive for total no contact first. There are many varying factors however which impact upon the steps you take and they are too numerous for me to address just in a comment in order to do them justice, Lou.

      2. Butterfly says:

        Thank you H.G. I’m at a high risk after reading your post with regards to “dirty empaths”…

  3. Caron says:

    I’m certainly greatful for your blog, HG. I’ve been no contact for a month and almost two weeks. I’ve been divorced since December, separated since September. I’m not in the clear yet. I will be, though. My narc is a ULN. He was never very clever. I wonder if you ever get tired of the game and just want to be real with someone. I’ve seen your soul, so no matter what you think about it, you are capable. You do all of this damage as a greater narc, but if you were to come to our side, you could be the first greater empath. What might that look like?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I am not an empath Caron, nor will I ever be one. Well done on your six weeks of no contact – maintain it – GOSO.

      1. Caron says:

        What a shame. You are quite something to behold now, but if you were to heal to the extent that it is possible, what you could do with your powers then…I would enjoy seeing that. But I can’t say I blame you. Ours are seldom lives to be envied.

        I realized we are both mistaken. There have been several greater empaths. Who would ever want to be one, though, because the entire world comes against them and kills them in horrible ways.

        My father is a mid ranger, and is in the hospital. He is detoxificating from the plethora of pharmaceuticals he has been on, one of which was depression meds. I didn’t know he was on those. I am in the anger stage of grief over my narc, and I am so livid that it bleeds over into anger at my father, who created the wounding that made me susceptible to my narc, but who hasn’t had power to harm me in a very long time, so it is hard to care. But you will probably laugh when I tell you that I’ve decided I need to try to see him at least once a week. I haven’t been hanging around him because he is a narc, but he is my family, he is elderly, and he is depressed. So…how is that for typical empath choices. It’s okay to laugh at me. I do.

        1. WhoCares says:

          Caron,

          “I am in the anger stage of grief over my narc, and I am so livid that it bleeds over into anger at my father, who created the wounding that made me susceptible to my narc, but who hasn’t had power to harm me in a very long time, so it is hard to care. But you will probably laugh when I tell you that I’ve decided I need to try to see him at least once a week.”

          Good for you Caron, in leaving behind your ULN ex!

          I feel your current pain; and I wouldn’t laugh at you in deciding to attempt to see your father once a week. I was there once; thinking (because of her health) that I could selectively visit my mother (a mid-ranger), but I went the route of no contact because I barely had enough emotional empathy for myself and just I knew it would be further damaging to me.

          It’s not an easy decision and certainly not a laughing matter for an empathic daughter. I wish you well on your further healing.

          1. Caron says:

            Thanks, WhoCares! I’ll have to decide as time goes on if being around him is helping either of us. It might not help him, but at least I will have tried. When I went to visit him in the hospital, one of the first thing he asked was, “Have you gained weight?” Um, yeah dad, I have, because I’ve been in an abusive relationship for three years, thank you for noticing and mentioning it, especially when you know that the ex’s whole stated reason for destroying our relationship was because I couldn’t lose 20 lbs. Oy. I’ve stopped tolerating this from him, so he might not want me around. He doesn’t like being taken to task. With the ex, I was likely to get hit, more likely to get immediately disengaged from after a verbally abusive tirade. I’m not afraid of my dad.

          2. WhoCares says:

            Caron,

            It’s interesting that your ex and your dad take the same approach to hurting you; referencing weight gain.
            Whatever you decide; I hope it works out well for you!

  4. Sarah says:

    This is exquisitively written, Mr Tudor. I fancy you.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you.

  5. ava101 says:

    Good thing then that the ex-narc wasn’t into sex. ;D
    But it is what stopped me ignoring the current ex-live-in-narc, that’s right. Haha.

    I did everything I could going no contact in regard to the ex-narc, but he would always find a way, which was the reason for my aquired social anxiety.
    I only feel safe now — in another country & my company in a third country, too, and he (and noone he knows) knows this.

    Before that, he would have 10 new phone numbers, mobile or from another country, or new landline numbers; found out my new landline number; countless new e-mail addresses, sending the same e-mail to many alternative/different e-mail addresses of mine, so he would get through at one of them … if that didn’t work he sent a letter, he changed to my city’s meetings of the group we had met through and I had to leave the organization, … he commented on my websites, used my official professional e-mail addresses, used other people, …

    It only stopped when he impregnated and moved in with his new girlfriend & me conversing with him in a (more or less) fuel free way, and calling him out, and not letting myself getting confused or scared by him anymore. Confronting him was the last time I’d contact with him, he broke up contact then.

    I know, life isn’t over yet, there’s still time, but at least it’s been two years now I think.

    Current ex-live-in-narc will get complete and full no contact as soon as I have signed my new lease (because unfortunately he is one of my two landlord references … … ). Thank you all for having supported me.

  6. Joanne says:

    I like that you’re presenting this one broken down in parts now. It’s a lot to digest and good to see specific “justifications” for remaining in contact addressed individually. Of course, it all comes down to ET but seeing your explanations on why ET surges in different scenarios is helpful.

    Of course, I am still not NC. Shame on me 🤦🏼‍♀️ At least I’m not doing anything *outrageously* stupid. Just sittin’ on a shelf for the most part 🙁

    1. Mercy says:

      Joanne, you’ll get there. It took me forever to finally go NC. It’s only been a few months and I have a long long way to go before my emotional thinking is under control. It’s progress though and you’re making progress too. All that shelf time gives you plenty of time learn.

      1. Joanne says:

        Thanks, Mercy. HG would probably disagree but the shelf is a good vantage point to observe and see things for what they are, continue learning and slowly come to acceptance.

        1. Mercy says:

          Joanne, Some of us take a little longer but we get there

  7. Supernova says:

    Ave HG morituri te salutant!

  8. J.G says:

    Hello, H.G.Tudor.
    In relation to this post, I have to say that it is very good to remind readers of this.
    In my specific case I have 15 years of 0 contact in every way.
    We have met in the street once fortuitously, but we have been mutually ignored. It is true that emotional thinking is strong and can blind you. But in my case I am stronger than this. Well, I think of all the bad things I experienced thanks to my narcissist. And this automatically makes me reject emotional thinking.
    In my specific case, I think I know very well what I have to do. I have experience in it.
    To run away from it as if it were the plague, and not to look back.
    For me, he is painted black until the end of time.
    Rather until he dies. hahahahahahahahahaha. Or I die. (I don’t contemplate this yet) hahahahaha.
    But better, let him die before.
    I have to enjoy a little time life in peace.
    Although I have to say, thanks to you, since I discovered it I live life to 100%. And I shine again with my own light.
    On occasions that we have met by chance, you look at me with such hatred. That when he does, I have come up. And I have come to think that maybe I can even be a narcissist.
    Is it possible that I am a narcissist, or is it my narcissistic dependence?
    Can an empathic /dependent be a narcissist?
    These are interesting questions…

    I really think I’m in the final faces of this hell and Zero contact really is what works. Also to fight against the emotional thought, this is the worst battle and it is so hard really, that it costs a lot to overcome. The best thing is to be very busy, all the time, all your time to stop, not to let your mind rest a single second. And get out of their area of influence …
    The best thing is to get out of its center of attraction and get as far away as possible, or your life will continue to be a real hell.

    The person who is aware of what Zero contact is knows that NO CONTACT IS FOR LIFE.

    God grant me the miracle, take it away soon… jajajajjajaj.
    Then the way will be easier for me.

  9. Kiki Romano says:

    This is a great post.

  10. windstorm says:

    All very, very sound advice to break away from a narcissist.

    1. kathy0720 says:

      It is. The lions mouth analogy is excellent. It is amazing how uninformed traditional therapeutic providers are to all of this.

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