The Middle Mid Ranger’s Seduction Speech



This demonstrates the mind set of a Middle Mid Ranger who would write in such terms or speak to the victim in this manner. It is a speech that could be said by any subdivision of Mid Ranger but most likely coming from the Middle Mid Ranger because of its penchant for pity play, false martyrdom and magical thinking. 

The sections in bold and italics are the unconscious reality of what is happening, compared with the conscious belief of the narcissist. Remember, his conscious belief is his actual belief and owing to the blinding effect of the narcissism this Middle Mid Ranger does not recognise that these words are empty, that certain events never happened, that various forms of manipulation are being used (those forms of manipulation being instinctive).

I also explain some of the empathic traits which these instinctive comments will be playing to, aided and abetted, of course, by the soaring emotional thinking of the victim who is being conned into believing these words and ignoring the repeated red flags which are being flown here.

What position would a recipient of such a speech hold in the narcissist’s fuel matrix? The recipient would be the Candidate Intimate Partner Secondary Source meaning that the narcissist instinctively senses this person could be crowned as the Intimate Partner Primary Source . There may be other competitors but they are Shelf IPSS and the recipient of this speech is the front runner. It is likely that there is an IPPS who is in devaluation and will shortly be disengaged from, should this speech succeed and the seduction win over this Candidate.

I have always adored you. It is true. You did not realise it. How could you? I kept my adoration confined to something distant and something remote, always living in hope that one day I would be able to pour my adoration all over you.

(Infatuation. Martyrdom. Feeds into the Love Devotee empathic trait of the victim with regard to the concept of unrequited love, a love burning away unnoticed.)

How long has this condition lasted for? I would suggest over ten years.

(It has not lasted for over ten years. This is Magical Thinking, the Revision of History and Grandiosity. The narcissism however causes, in that moment, the narcissist to truly believe that this adoration has been in place for ten years.)

Yes, that long. It was when you first joined the company. We worked in separate departments but I saw you arrive one day and from that moment I felt this adoration for you.

(The narcissist never noticed the victim at first because he was in a golden period with somebody else, but it sounds more impressive to suggest such recognition so early on because this accords with the Love Devotee Trait of love at first sight.

It was strong and powerful and flowed from deep inside of me. I knew in an instant what it was and I just knew that I had to provide it to you.

(Grandiosity and Martyrdom).

I had no idea when that opportunity might arise, when I might be in a position to furnish you with this potent and unending adoration. You did not know this but I managed to copy your photograph off the company website and I would lie on my bed or sit in a chair and stare at your picture wondering when I would be able to provide you with what you deserve.

(This never happened. Revision of History combined with Grandiosity. Again the Love Devotee Trait is being milked by such a seemingly ‘sweet’ action. Logic of course would cause the victim to (a) question whether this actually happened ; and (b) if it did, find it rather creepy.)

I contemplated listening to you lying beside me and whispering my name, the sensation of your hand in mine, the delight in sharing experiences.

(Magical Thinking and exhibition of the Sense of Entitlement as the narcissist is already picture the relationship having formed, demonstrating the latent sense of ownership of the victim).

This adoration has remained, churning and growing inside of me. I have sustained it and nurtured it for all this time.

(Grandiosity and Revision of History. The adoration sprang up recently as the necessity of replacing the currently devalued IPPS became more pressing.)

That surely shows just how powerful it is and just how special you are to me. Yes, I know you had no idea. How could you? I kept it to myself as I wanted to save it all for you.

(Martyrdom. Feeding off the Love Devotee Trait with regard to the power of love.)

Of course there have been others during those ten years but they were just practice for when I would be able to provide that adoration for you.

(It would stretch credibility to suggest the narcissist has remained single for such a period of time (A Lower Mid Range might suggest such a thing) instead, the need for the narcissist to demonstrate that he is a catch so there have been other partners remains HOWEVER this is explained away. This is a Benign Triangulation.)

I was fond of those supposedly significant others but let’s not you nor I delude ourselves; they came nowhere close to evoking the adoration that I have for you.

(They actually did back then, but Revision of History arising out of the exes being painted black.)

I was not surprised. I understood that from the instant I laid eyes on you that you were the one.

(Revision of History. Magical Thinking.)

I could not make my move though until I had tested myself. You see, I had been let down so many times before. I thought I knew and understood what true adoration was. I had been deceived by imposters and found that they promised much yet delivered so little. I did not doubt you but I had to be sure.

(Martyrdom. Pity Play. Benign Triangulation. Exes Painted As Black).

Accordingly, I kept my distance, adoring you from afar and pushing my resistance. Each day that passed where I denied myself the chance to give you my adoration was another day where I tested whether that adoration would remain intact and it was.

(Martyrdom. Magical Thinking. Revision of History. Placing victim on pedestal – you are totally worth all of this effort and pain and therefore you ought to feel very special).

I came through the test. I asked many questions of myself and I found that I was not wanting. This time was the reality. This was true and honest adoration, nothing more and nothing less. I realised as the months became years that the longer I waited the surer I would become and moreover, like a grand whisky maturing, the longer I waited then the more powerful this adoration would be.

(Revision of History. Magical Thinking. Feeding off the empathic traits of Honesty and Decency by showing the victim that they did not rush in (when of course the narcissist has actually rushed in).

I understood that to allow this adoration to grow and build, to test it, to determine whether it had any boundaries and shortcomings would ultimately mean that I would be able to dispense adoration like nobody else could ever do so. I could give you what you deserved and in return you would provide me with what I wanted and needed.

(Magical Thinking. Martyrdom. Idealisation of victim.)

This may seem strange but there almost came a point when I thought that perhaps I would never provide this adoration for you.

(Pity Play)

I wondered and considered whether I would be better served by keeping it within myself.


Locking my adoration away as I always wondered whether it would come undone after another day of waiting and testing, but then I realised that since I adored you so, I could no longer keep this adoration hidden. What person would I be if I did not provide you with the very thing which you deserved?

(Pity Play)

I would be failing both you and I. Thus, that is why I made my move. There was nothing distinct which triggered this need to make my approach and provide you with this adoration. There was no catalyst other than the realisation that the time had come.

(Martyrdom. Further, the catalyst was of course the need to replace the current IPPS who is in devaluation although the narcissist does not realise that this is what is driving the behaviour.)

There was nothing more to be gained in keeping this adoration confined to myself. I had to release it and lay it on you. I had to pour it over you, spilling over you and coating you. I needed to provide this most perfect adoration and allow you to bask in it, delight in and know that this is what I will also provide to you.

(Grandiosity. Latent exhibition of ownership and the victim being an extension of the narcissist).

How can that now be the case? I have waited so long to give this to you that there can be no outcome other than this permanent state of adoration which will allow us to become one and preserve that state of affairs forever.

(Assimilation of the victim into the narcissist demonstrating the fact that the victim is an extension of the narcissist. Feeds of the empathic trait of Love Devotee once again.)

Ten years may seem like a long time but it is but a blink of the eye when compared to the infinite adoration I will give you and that shall keep us together.

(Infatuation. Grandiosity).

We shall not crumble, we shall not fall. I promise you this.

(Grandiosity. This promise is of course caveated, conditional, flexible and when necessary will be revoked and removed as if it never existed because such a promise was made to a different victim  last month and another the month before that and another the same last year.)

139 thoughts on “The Middle Mid Ranger’s Seduction Speech

  1. alexissmith2016 says:

    hahahaha omg SDE that is so funny!

  2. SMH says:

    Oh my, some of this is indeed creepy. If MRN had ever said anything like it to me I would have run the other way. I have no idea whether I was in line for CIPSS. Probably not. But I never gave him the chance because I only wanted a fling and then tried to settle into my SIPSS role (not very successfully because I didn’t like being on the shelf or the stranger zoning). I told him over and over that I could not give him what he needed, that I was most definitely not his soulmate and, in the end, that I could not make him happy because I was not the cause of his unhappiness. I just wanted us to occasionally see each other, respect each other, and care about each other.

  3. Claire says:

    We have special goggles for aliens!

  4. Kiki says:

    Hg. I. don’t know if I’m allowed to mention authors of self help relationship books but I wanted to ask you something I used to read every single how to have a good relationship book ever written I think.
    I think now some encouraged me to stay entangled. there is a world famous one hint planets on a date that actually encouraged me to put up with silent treatment and blame myself.
    Looking back it was a dangerous book and mindset for empaths

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Exactly. Here’s how you have a good relationship- avoid narcissists. That’s all you need.

      1. Lou says:

        I am not sure that’s all one needs to have a good relationship, HG. Avoiding narcissists helps a great deal, that’s for sure, but there are so many different factors that make a good relationship that I am not sure even normals are able to have one.
        Maybe a good relationship for a while, yes. A good long lasting relationship, I am not sure.
        And then there is the side of the empaths, which is not always normal, since some find the so called normals boring. Not sure they could stay with a normal and feel fulfilled.

        1. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

          Lou. I could stay with a normal! Jobs are my problem. If he had some flexibility in his work. And his hours. That is all I would ask, but that is so difficult to find. The man would not bore me. As long as he was not boring. But, for some reason, the rigidity of him having a 9 to 5 sort of job, 5 days a week, I would find debilitating. I have always felt this way about a lack of freedom. And nothing “happened“ to me to make me feel this way, and I never tell anyone about this. Because they would tell me that It cuts down on my selection process and they would be correct. And when someone tries to set me up with someone, they always discuss with me a set time jobber, so I always have to decline the introduction, and I do not care what he looks like, etc., but I can not abide a set time job like that. But, so be it. And, it does not bother me that I feel this way. I am entitled to my personality. So, I do not mention it, because people would tell me that I should not think or fee that way.

          1. Lou says:

            Interesting Princes SE. I have heard of many different criteria women have for a partner but never heard flexible working hours as THE main criterion for a potential partner. You are right, if that is important for you, then so be it.
            Kudos to you that you can appreciate a “normal”! I have never thought of them as boring. All the opposite, I have always wanted a “normal”, but often got a narc who seemed to be “normal”.

          2. SMH says:

            PSE, I have never had a 9-5 job either. In fact, Lesser exH and MRN, who followed one after the other, were the only two men I have ever been with who did have 9-5 jobs. Hmmm. I did feel really hemmed in by their work schedules and weekends. They were both very rigid in many ways. My son’s father (not my Lesser exH) did have 9-5 jobs on and off, but he was flexible, took months off to travel, and stayed home for most of our son’s early years so I could get my own career off the ground. I cut him some slack 🙂

        2. FYC says:

          Hi Lou,
          Have you come across the works of Drs John and Julie Gottman? He is a respected pioneer in psychological research pertaining to relationships and communication in relationships. He uses a model he calls “The four horsemen of the apocalypse,” to accurately (94% rate) predict divorce simply by watching couples interact. Interestingly, these four horsemen are highly narcissistic behaviors: criticism, contempt, defensiveness, and stonewalling. Since these behaviors are relied upon by narcissists, but not exclusive to narcissists, perhaps we could expand HG’s directive to include highly narcissistic people as well.

          Another interesting part of Gottman’s work is his extensive research on attunement and the critical role it plays in successful relationships. Given empaths possess emotional empathy, attunement may be a natural extension. Non-narcissists may possess a degree of emotion empathy or might rely more on intellectual empathy, but can learn attunement skills. I would guess that greater and mid-range narcissists could feign attunement for purposes of manipulation or facade management, but otherwise have no interest in attuning to their partner. Lessers and mid/lower mid-range narcissists would not possess the ability and would therefore have no interest in attunement.

          Interesting when you combine the two areas of work they are very complimentary.

          To your point, I also believe a person’s degree of healthy self esteem would highly correlate with relationship success. Of course things such as values and beliefs, common interests, backgrounds, etc., are also in the mix. No wonder it can be challenging to find a “good-for-you” partner!

          HG, would like to hear your thoughts on the attunement and narcissism to know if my guess is wrong.

        3. NarcAngel says:

          I know what HG meant but you raise a good point. There are many other factors, and for some, normals do seem boring because of the roller coaster many have become used to. It probably comes over time as we find peace ourselves that normal would seem less ‘boring’ and present as more ‘stable’. Until then – it’s looking like weirdos without malice will have to fill the gap lol.

          1. Lou says:

            Hi NA,
            Yes, the fact that some empaths get used to the emotional roller coaster they live in with their narcs is one factor that make them find so called potential normal partners boring.
            I think it is also a matter of empaths admiring and needing those traits they did not develop themselves and that their narcissists may give them “access to” that make the narcs so attractive and addictive to them. I think once the empath can see that (with time) and maybe develop those traits herself to a certain point, then she can see the advantages of having a calmer, more stable and healthier relationship with someone who is not disordered.

        4. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

          Lou. I guess we hear about a little bit of everything on here. lol. It is not as rigid as it sounds. At least let him work some days at different locations, or have flexible hours, or even odd hours. Just something where one could just stop and smell the flowers some days, or just take off for a moment, without needing a grand production to swing it and then not enjoy it because there could be blowback from the job. I just can not abide the regular 9 to 5, hopefully, if I decide to find a boyfriend. I once worked in finance for a few years. That was like a hybrid. So even that field can be okay, even though the hours stayed largely the same each day: because one could leave at 4 most of the time, and at least take extra long lunches often, or say you are meeting a client somewhere, every now and then, that is not a bad field. So, just have some freedom somewhere! I once dated a Chef and he had the same hours, but at least they were odd hours…late afternoon until late in morning so, at least, because of the oddity of the hours, he was off all day. So at least one could do things sometimes, during the best part of the day, without worrying about it. So, I am not asking for too much, but, it seems that I am, in reality.

          1. Lou says:

            PrincessSE, I was half joking when I replied to your comment. I genuinely found your reasoning interesting and funny. I get what you mean, I think. For you it is important to have a certain freedom or flexibility, or variation in your routine and that’s the way you can imagine not getting bored in a relationship. I think that’s a valid criterion.

          2. Lou. Not just bored in a relationship, but bored in life in general. This world does not give us a passing glance on our last days, so why should we not live! As much as we can. That is how I am, personality wise. For me, Lou, as much as I can finesse: Freedom is King. 🙂

          3. Lou says:

            I agree with you Princess SE. However, although I intellectually agree with say the principle of Carpe diem, I don’t get to live every day to the fullest. Far from it, actually. Therefore, I admire your attitude towards life and wish I had more of it.

          4. NarcAngel says:

            You’ve got lots of company there. Although everyone’s fullest differs I suppose.

          5. Lou says:

            NA, I know I am not alone there. I think Carpe Diem is a good principle, but one that is impossible to live by all the time. It is like mindfulness or living always in the present moment. It seems we’d need to be flies to do that. Humans have a frontal lobe which is used to plan ahead and calculate. And we have it for a reason. However, these are good principles to keep always in mind to find more balance in our lives. I get that; I just forget to keep them in mind. Lol.

          6. NarcAngel says:

            I think Carpe Diem is a good meme. Right up there with telling kids they can be anything they want to be. Not impossible, but not as fucking likely for someone who does not benefit from a running start involving money, connections, and lack of conscience. What a load.

          7. Lou says:

            And I agree that everyone’s fullest is very subjective.

    2. Kiki: Yes. That is where I started out to help myself with the weird entanglement. The Relationship sites. The relationship site solutions did not fit though. With stuff like, how to text to make him text you back. How to make him jealous. Powers of Attraction. Be the light. Find your inner Goddess. Make him do what you want. Kiki: I did not want to MAKE HIM do anything. I just wondered why everything was so strange, and how I could mellow things out. Everything was strange,. After a few months of relationship sites, I became frustrated with all of that, and I switched to asking my own questions on the internet and finally after a month or 2 of that, I found HG Tudor on Youtube. It was a real maze, before I found him, that I never went into detail about, in my search to figure out what was going on. I found HG in the nick of time. Things were really bad within myself at that point, Then I discovered HG Tudor, on Youtube first, and for some reason, I just stayed there and then one day, I wanted to find out something on one of the videos and then I clicked on the link that brought me here, and I was surprised to find out there is so much of his works on here, as well. I am doing so much better now.

      1. Kiki says:

        Hi yes I agree until I came here. I applied the works of the two planets author I guess you know who he is.Looking now I see. how his works encouraged empaths to stay put. he had some theory of accepting men pull away aka silent treatment and not to pester them.overall it was a disaster for me. I religiously believed this crap until I came here.
        Hg gives us the truth no Bs and I respect for that in a big way.
        Every young girl should be taught Hg works that’s my take.


        1. SMH says:

          For sure, Kiki. And every young girl should be taught that it’s okay to say no and not to push her own needs to one side if they are not getting met.

          1. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

            SMH. And little boys 2. Many men are entangle with Narcissist women and are often embarrassed to say so and to seek a way out. And I have heard about men calling the police on women but then treated in a condescending manner, So, women narcs are like a secret that is hiding out, in a way, in society. Don`t ask, don`t tell. Yet, if a man strikes a woman, all sorts of hysteria abounds. And Parents need to know what is going on as well to protect their children and find out if bad things are happening to their children. And if it is the parents causing the problem, oh well…there is not much that can be done in this case, especially in free countries. The home is practically inviolate. Unfortunately, when it comes to home life, practically, “anything goes.“

          2. SMH says:

            Totally agree, PSE. I have a boy. Did not raise a girl. All kids need to be taught about boundaries. Unfortunately, a lot of parents do not have boundaries themselves, or do not respect their kids’ boundaries. A lot of horrible stuff goes on behind closed doors. I was just reading about that 5 year old boy who told a doctor in his 5 year old way that his mother had hit him with a belt. Still, they sent him home and now he is dead. Abuse is rampant.

          3. SMH: It is sad. The home can be a veritable House Of Hours. And the home is like that Las Vegas Slogan: “What goes on in the home, stays in the home,“ until something bad has developed.

        2. NarcAngel says:

          I assume the planets are Mars and Venus? Women at work discussed that back in the day so I had a look. Teaching women to ‘play their cards right’ (aka accept less for themselves) in order to get him to commit. Complete insulting nonsense.

        3. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

          Kiki. I do not know the 2 planet people. And frankly, my hands are plenty full with my situations on this one planet for now: The planet earth. But, those relationship channels are dangerous in many ways, and many are full of mysticism for some reason, and I do not know why, and now that I am fortunate enough to escape them, I am quite pleased. I do not have time for their trickery tactics of the opposite sex. And, I am not a participant in the New Age Movement, and, I do not believe that a lot of their tactics, that they are full of, will hardly bring about the promised results long term, nor bring well being and growth to their practitioners long term, but only will waste years of their lives. I gladly do not look back at those relationship sites, and I wiped my tracks behind me, when I moved away from them. And I will NOT recommend them and I did not recommend them to anyone.

          1. Kiki says:

            Hi it’s mars and venus on a date.
            Lots of theories on why men act like prats and why women should accept it and keep themselves occupied by getting mani pedis I’m serious. :-/

          2. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

            Kiki. Thanks. Yeah. Well, I already do that. So, “I`m sorry, not sorry.“ That is just about all I can say about the 2 planet people.

      2. Kiki says:

        I always refer to hg as a great guardian angel because despite what he is he also is a protecter who I cannot owe enough gratitude.


  5. Elyssa says:

    hg I saw that someone else asked if you could write about upper mid in this style and I would also like to see more about upper mids. I think because of their higher intelligence level they often are wrongly thought to be greaters.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are correct.

      1. Getting There says:

        That would be great to see one of the UMRN! Also one for a lower Greater, if possible, please.

  6. Starscape says:

    I love the italic explanations. Broadens my view. Thank you teacher.

    1. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

      Starscape. I love the italics as well. It is like HG Tudor is sitting with us during a play or movie or something, and is whispering to us in our ear to explain to us the complicated parts, so that we can have the full understanding and enjoyment of the production. lol.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        You know you’d love that!

        1. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

          Dearest HG. I was first, and since then, at least 2 other people , have admired those italics. I did say on this site, somewhere, that my emotional thinking loved those italics, but only K can find where I said that. Where is K, when needed? But, yes. And please use that style more. We can feel it. Thank you.

          1. K says:

            Is this it?

            APRIL 16, 2019 AT 14:59
            Dearest HG. I love those explanations and that writing style. I like things spelled out exactly like this, at times. Those italics reach my emotional thinking quickly for some reason.


          2. K. Thank you so much. I mean it. That is it!

          3. K says:

            Excellent, I had a feeling that was the correct comment and my pleasure, PrincessSuperEmpath!

  7. Twisted Heart says:

    Yikes! Now I’m not sure that I’ve ever not dated a narcissist.
    This site makes dating that much harder. I’m starting to lose faith in men in general.
    Joanne it brings me comfort to know that your husband is a good man. Hopefully I’ll start to see more green flags in the future!

  8. Kimberly says:

    Hg please write one of these about upper mid. Thank you!!

    1. HG Tudor says:


      1. SMH says:

        Another vote for Upper Mid, HG!

  9. ava101 says:

    The exnarc said some things similar, but he also said later that when we first met, he hadn’t thought at all of getting together, he said “I thought you were not for me”. … What do you make of that, HG?

    He also said he didn’t think that we would stay in touch (it is my fault that we did).
    He had watched me though and charmed me by giving me most beloved e-books and other stuff from his laptop, …

    1. K says:

      He probably said those statements to provoke you into providing fuel (confusion, upset, worry, questioning or wondering why he felt that way).

      The control lies in the words he uses. Words are easy and energy efficient and they generate what he needs with ease: fuel.

  10. Lisa says:

    HG, have you done one of these for a lesser mid ? Thanks

    1. HG Tudor says:

      No, I haven’t.

  11. Joanne says:

    This was great! Love the italicized reality of what’s actually going on.

    So many of these are familiar to me…basically how it all started with us.

    My favorite is: “Logic of course would cause the victim to (a) question whether this actually happened ; and (b) if it did, find it rather creepy.)” SO VERY TRUE. Everything he said about his adoration toward me was incredulous and coming from anyone else I WOULD have found it creepy. I HAVE been fed ridiculous lines in the past and never gave them an ounce of credence. But I guess between our history and his superb acting, he was able to make it all seem believable.

  12. Amanda says:

    HG – my mid range ex used to always tell everyone that we met at Starbucks when in reality we met on Christian Mingle and texted then later met in person at Starbucks. As a midranger would my ex have actually convinced himself we met at starbucks or did he know he was lying??

    1. HG Tudor says:

      He believed you met at Starbucks. If you sought to point out that this was not the case, this would have been Challenge Fuel and he would have responded by seeking to quash your act of ‘rebellion’.

    2. Anm says:

      That’s a narc thing in general. I met my Upper Lesser Narc ex at a formal dinner party. But we didn’t start dating until I randomly moved in the same neighborhood as him, and he asked me out online.
      When I was painted white, “we met at a dinner party.”
      Since I have been painted black, I’m now the “online stalker” who tricked him.

      1. SMH says:

        Anm, Sorry but that made me laugh!

  13. Emily says:

    I am so glad that when I read these words I immediately found them creepy, dramatic and over the top instead of romantic. I have you to thank for that HG.

  14. J.G THE ONE says:

    Hello, H.G.Tudor.
    This post is quite illustrative. I suppose the language is too exaggerated for us to see in this exaggerations his manipulations more clearly.
    On the other hand, in a real dialogue, the conversations and their gestural attitudes are so fast that they distract you from paying attention to their words and actions. As great prestidigitators you are.
    But in spite of everything, I love the analysis of their techniques and manipulations, I hope that articles like this is not the last one.

    1. SJ says:


      Why use a big word, when a singularly unloquacious and diminutive linguistic expression will satisfactorily accomplish the contemporary necessity?

      I like you J.G, you’re reliable and eloquent with your comments. And self-less.

  15. Supernova DE says:

    Wow, this is intense. So curious if any of you empaths out there have received this from an MMRN????

    I certainly never did, but I don’t think I was ever truly considered for IPPS position (thank goodness). The closest I got were a few convos like the following:

    MMRN: You know I used to sit right behind you in calculus. I never paid attention cause I was always just daydreaming about f—ing you.
    Me: What?! That seems very unlikely
    MMRN: Why would I make that up? You know I always had a thing for you.
    Me: Yea nope, how would I know that? You never asked me out.
    MMRN: Well….I mean I was busy focusing on academics. Anyway, we dated in college and it didn’t work out.
    Me: We didn’t date, what are you talking about?! We sexted…we made out at parties…we “pretended” to watch a movie in your parents basement while hooking up…we never ever had a date. No dinner, no movie. You never asked.
    MMRN: Well……I’m gonna go take a nap.

    Guess I didn’t respond the way he wanted haha.

    1. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

      Supernova. Wow! That was a great read. Especially ending with a need for a nap! LOL! Thanks!

      1. Supernova DE says:

        Haha! Yea, a lot of our conversations ended in him abruptly needing a nap. He probably was tired (from staying up all night texting appliances), but also it was a way to escape when I wasn’t behaving.

        1. Supernova. Texting appliances! Lol. He did not go into a rage though. Nap is not bad for an escape mechanism. Was he somatic? Upper Mid Ranger?

          1. Supernova DE says:

            Cerebral MMR. He never once raged. The worst he ever lashed out was with “Geez, take it easy!!” He just vanished, stopped talking, sometimes with a lame excuse, often with none. Silence was his weapon for sure.

        2. K says:

          Supernova DE
          Correct, he withdrew to assert control. Your conversations mostly likely had some challenge fuel in them, or the potential to wound, and he instinctively knew it was “nap time”. The defence mechanism is brilliant because it strives to be preemptive.

    2. Kelly says:

      Ha! You wore him out. Love it!

    3. Lisa says:

      Not being topmost British upper class (I know you won’t tell us HG but seriously are you royalty? You’ve said you’re not Harry but you’ve met him. Do you mind if I keep pretending inside my head that you’re royalty?) , his language wasn’t nearly as fancy as HG’s…. but yes. Something similar from Narcissist the First. Not all in one conversation, and we were in high school so it didn’t seem as creepy that he might have been watching and waiting and fantasising…

      Something more along the lines of “Ever since fifth grade, I always thought if I asked anyone to prom it was going to be you.”

      The general idea holds though, so yes.

      1. SJ says:

        I heard he did once triangulate Queen Liz with one of her Corgis.

      2. ava101 says:

        ;D That would be so cute, if it just wasn’t!

        OMG great, now I had to think of my first big love … when in high school …
        No, he couldn’t say stuff like that as he had just moved back to the country a year before … but talk about “vibes” between us, … everything soooo special … never bothered to mention that his girlfriend had also moved back to the country.

      3. FYC says:

        Lisa, The answer appears in HG’s book, “Confessions of a Narcissist.”

        1. Lisa says:

          Thank you FYC 🙂

      4. Lisa. Oh no!!! Please do not let HG Tudor be part of the staid rights and ceremony and protocol of all that. I picture him as being able to go here and there largely wherever he pleases with whomever he pleases with as much freedom and invisibility as he needs and when and if he so chooses. And ,to be able to drop off the scene completely when and if he needs to do so. To recover himself, so to speak. I consider Freedom as posh: Maybe, because I live in the United States. We love freedom and the ability to slack off when needed.

      5. Lisa. I hear a lot of variety in the layers of HG`s accent. It is unusual and it sounds as if he lived in different areas, or his parents did? I am not sure, but their is some mystery in it. And I haven`t quite heard one like it. One day I hope he tells us where all he has lived, etc. without breaching his identity, of course. But, I would like to go to some of the places that I hear in his voice. I have one of those voices, that no one can ever guess exactly where I am from. I have my foundation voice, I guess, but I have lived in various states for a few years. I guess that changed my accent, over all.

        1. EmP says:

          HG said he has lived in more than one county during his childhood, if I recall correctly.

          1. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

            EmP. Sounds so interesting. I think we take on our family accent, our region, and like you say, if we live in other countries, etc. for a while, and then it sometimes changes for other reasons as well. I changed states as a young teenager, and my parents had an elocution coach come to our home and work on my voice to soften a strong accent I had that was not working out for me. lol. It still comes out, somewhat, when I am excited over something. Or, when I am exhausted. I explained this all to an acquaintance that was curious about it once, and she asked me: What did your real voice sound like? I confessed to her, I have no idea. The odd part, is that wherever you go, and wherever you are, even when you visit your home town, or the other places you have lived, you are asked, Where are you from? It is like not having a home, in a way.

          2. EmP says:

            Princess, I have been abroad for years now but I haven’t lost my home town accent, luckily – and I sound nothing like my parents, who are from a different part of the country.

            HG confirmed he speaks Received Pronunciation.
            From what I read on Wikipedia, RP is spoken by approximately 3% of English people – and the percentage speaking U-RP (the Upper class sub-variety) is “vanishingly small”.
            I bet HG speaks U-RP.

          3. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

            EmP! Thank you so very much. I am stunned. That such a study even exists! I wonder if those studies are done in the U.S. I wouldn`t even know where to look! I bet he Speaks Ultra Greater Elite RP. If you have the time, can you check on Wikipedia if there is a U.S. study of that sort of thing? The only way you would know if your accent has changed in your case, would be to have a recording of the before and after years, yes? Maybe it depends on in what country a person is abroad, whether or not the accent is altered? Who knows.

          4. EmP says:

            Princess, in my case I know that my accent is still there because when I speak to people from my country they are immediately able to tell which city I am from! And yes, linguistics is a fascinating subject indeed. Lots of material out there, if you are interested (books, articles, websites, etc.).

            The Wikipedia page about Received Pronunciation referred to several British sources.

          5. EmP. I am jealous that your voice contains your region. That means you will always be a native daughter. I hope you enjoy that.

    4. SJ says:

      Supernova DE
      Haha 😂

      I’m the same as you. I wasn’t his IPPS, but then I don’t think he had one. I presume I was his IPSS.
      I can definitely see that the sentiments are on the same level, it’s just that they were never that intense, with me.

      MMRN: You are the only person that knows my intimate private parts and fantasies better than I do.
      Me: I bet you say that to all the women you know who have worn a strap-on.
      MMRN: I wish you would listen to me and be serious for a moment – this is a pretty big thing I’m saying. And I will never try that with anyone else, other than you, so if you deny me, I will go without.
      Me: Yes, I can see you going without (not).
      MMRN: I’ve never felt as comfortable with anyone else, as I did with you – hence why I let you do whatever you wanted to me.
      Me: Well, the way you left it for 10 minutes before stripping naked in front of me on our first meet told me you were special and saving it all for me.
      MMRN: Ha! I was a bit naughty, wasn’t I? You bring out the best in me.

    5. Claire says:

      My hopefully soon to be former spouse is a middle mid—I have love bombing emails from early on somewhere (maybe) in my old archaic email but not this crazy. I may have deleted them?? If not I need to because it disturbs me.

    6. Claire says:

      Supernova—I took a peak and I do indeed have them. If I received this today I would vomit in my mouth:

      Just wanted to take the time to say good morning. I
      absolutely hate leaving in the mornings with you still
      lying in bed. It is so tempting to just get back
      under the covers with you. You are making me have bad
      thoughts of not going to work every time I am there,
      which seems to be often as of late.
      I don’t want you to feel like you are getting tired of
      seeing me all the time. I do enjoy spending time with
      you and I would rather be talking to you late at night
      than trying to go to sleep. You are a bad influence
      on me. I have been thinking about you constantly it
      seems since we first all went out, however many weeks
      ago that was. Like you mentioned, things have moved
      along rather quickly. I don’t feel like they are
      moving too quickly, everything actually is going very
      well in fact and I am very comfortable, but when you
      look back at how long ago it has been it seems unreal
      to me. I also feel like we have known each other for
      a very long time but it has only been a matter of
      weeks. I feel like I know everything about you
      already and there is not one thing I do not like. I
      am just afraid you may get tired of me or get bored
      with me being around all the time. That is why I am
      sometimes hesitant to mention anything about seeing
      you. I don’t want to scare you off or smother you or
      make you feel like you need your space. I hope you
      understand. I try not to think to far ahead and get
      my hopes up but I like how everything has gone so far,
      no matter how fast.

      1. Mercy says:

        Claire, wowww!! HG has warned us about everyone of these sentences. How long ago was this? My jaw is on the floor because I feel like Ive read this email throughout all of HGs articles. It’s so crazy.

        1. Claire says:

          I just tried to reply and lost the darn thing! It was 2002..

      2. NarcAngel says:

        Great example. Thanks for sharing it. Now I hear HG saying: you had/have no need to keep it. Delete it.

        1. Claire says:

          Indeed! Isn’t it nuts to see this kind of stuff now?! It’s sad really. I’ve had similar correspondence with not only him like this. It never struck me as odd.

          1. Claire says:

            Oh and for HG—I think it is safe to say from that email that I belong here! I never needed the Narc detector on this one! Haha

  16. Saskia says:

    I cannot help it – some of those sweet delights of doom & gloom made me laugh out loud. What a relief it is to find that I, finally, feel nothing at all when looking back to those months and years I spent entangled with ‘my’ (heaven forbid) narcissist. Thank you for composing those passages.

  17. danielle tunaley says:

    Can you come and hold my hand as the thunder and lightning is scaring me xxx

    1. SJ says:

      Don’t be scared, Danielle. Enjoy it. Feel nature’s wrath as a way of cleansing the air and your soul. Join in and share the powerful friction.

      Is there rain, too?

  18. danielle tunaley says:

    Hi HG because of your teachings I wouldn’t fall for this bs but I like the way you have presented this with audio and then reading excellent combo as always thank you for your time and effort in educating us all on the subject of creepy behaviour lol I feel my emotional thinking is weakening and my logic is gaining the upper hand so once again thank you HG xxx

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are welcome.

  19. Q says:

    This is a speech made for naive women who are disperate to get married. Anyone who hears words like – adoration, eternal, for ever, etc etc etc and believe them should be fined, no matter the circumstances. Normal guys never speak like this. But I get the point and if toned down and stripped of big romantic words, the whole speech is an efficient hook for impresionable romantic women, like in soap operas, who, again, are desperate to get married. I, for one, would rofl if a guy told me such things. Indeed I fall for more realistic approaches. If he tells me he has been dreaming for a year to get in bed with me, yes, I could get that and I would love to hear that and I would probably bite it, but I feel insulted he didn’t try earlier and had to wait one long year to make a move. It’s a bit lame, în my opinion, we are not in kindergarden anymore. If you want me, come and try to conquer me. But, I am not a role model, I tend to start my relationships by quickly sleeping with the guy I am interested in and I get to know him after, if the sex part is good enough and I feel like I really want to know him better. Why lose precious time with a guy who might disappoint you sexually???

    1. Joanne says:

      Q, I disagree.

      1. I AM married. Happily. To a great guy who IS romantic and treats me very well.
      2. I’m so not naive. I question everyone’s motives and trust VERY few.
      3. I’m not desperate for a man and have never been.
      4. While I agree most normal guys do not speak in these terms, I think the article was illustrating intent, not actual verbatim language (although in some instances I can imagine those over the top words are used.)

      I feel, as HG writes, that this type of approach is laser focused on penetrating into various empathic qualities, and partially BECAUSE normal guys don’t behave like this, it can make this tactic even more effective. Granted, it may not work every time. I know I would also rofl at most guys like this but when applied in just the right manner, and coming from the right guy – it works 🙁

      1. HG Tudor says:

        You’ve understood the nature of the article perfectly.

        1. Joanne says:

          Thanks, HG. I am the everlearning pupil!

      2. mommypino says:

        Very well said Joanne! Although I can also see where Q is coming from because I used to sound like that years ago before the Somatic handyman seduced me. If I heard somebody tell me years ago that there will be a handsome handyman that I have never met before who will work at my house for less than two weeks, really good looking but empty in the head and just mainly agrees with everything that I say, will look at me like he wanted to eat me alive and whistle at me and that I will totally be obsessively in love with him to the point of losing my appetite and sleep when he’s gone, I wound say you’re crazy! Don’t you know me? Since grade school I only get crushes on the smartest guys in class! But life happens and you realize that you’re not as impenetrable as you think you are.

        1. Claire says:

          It is a humbling experience—I read the email I posted above that I ironically found from my spouse and it is ridiculous. The whole experience and list of narcissists I’ve dated is absurd.

          1. mommypino says:

            You’re a narc magnet Claire! It’s amazing to think that after reading HG’s work we look at our past with the special narc goggles and start identifying the narcs that we encountered in the past. Reading the articles in narcsite is like being on a scavenger hunt for little pieces of puzzles missing to finish the unfinished pictures of some of my past experiences that didn’t add up before. Now I can see the whole picture and see what really happened: I encountered a disordered person.

        2. Joanne says:

          Yes. Life does happen and we are not always in complete control. Sometimes we get swept away by the very thing we’d reject ordinarily.

    2. SJ says:


      There is nothing wrong with wanting something better in a man than what you’re used to and ‘naively’ falling for a bit of the old romance. I for one knew it uplifted me, even as a cynic who thinks most men are only after one thing. I didn’t take what he said at face value, nor did I swoon to give him fuel, but I did fantasise about it.

      It’s just one of many machination genres of the N that appeals to some.
      What was something you did fall for, Q?

  20. foolme1time says:

    Mine was a lot smoother then this. Now I’m not sure he was a mid ranger? 🤷‍♀️

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Note, Middle.

      1. foolme1time says:

        Ah, ok thank you kind sir!

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You’re welcome.

    2. Joanne says:

      I would classify mine as an UMR but a lot of this was very on target…

      1. foolme1time says:

        Joanne, At Times I forget mine was also mid victim. I have to remember the different cadres when I read HG’s posts. He sucked me right in with the whole victim persona! Even feeling something was off, I still took the bait! 🤦🏼‍♀️

        1. Joanne says:

          I also think there’s some “cross functionality” within the cadres or L, M, U ranges. Mine also loves to be the victim. He’ll never act weak, heaven forbid. But LOVES to portray the good guy who was wronged.

          1. foolme1time says:

            Joanne I agree! Mine was never in the wrong, everything that ever happened to him was someone else’s fault! I now realize just how freaking boring he was. 🤦🏼‍♀️

          2. Joanne says:

            Mine was incredibly boring and basic.

          3. SMH says:

            Joanne and FM1T, That is why they have to cause drama all the time. If they didn’t cause drama, they wouldn’t get any attention. They are also bored. Bored and boring.

          4. Lisa says:

            Bored and boring ha ha so true. Mine was like a broken record he only ever spoke about the same things over and over again when I look back on it. He was very limited !!

          5. SMH says:

            Mine too, Lisa, though it might have been more from lack of effort than anything else. I have no idea, really. He would express envy of my life, which is much freer than his and more interesting (he would say that, not me – kind of a pity play). Of course I was always trying to draw him out, but maybe there was nothing to draw out. What he did show of an inner life was fantasy (they are fantasists too). Anyway, whether they are actually boring or not, they fear they are boring, so bring on the drama.

  21. MommyPino says:

    A few months ago, I would have been a sucker for this. Martyrdom latent exhibition of ownership would have swept me off my feet.

    1. Joanne says:

      MP – Latent exhibition of ownership! Such a perfect phrase. There were times when he would make these proclamations like “it should have been us that got together in college and gotten married, but I had to meet HER.” “Someday, when we’re married, I’ll read you that poem.”

      It made no difference to him that I did not confess my feelings toward him, or what I wanted from him. All that mattered was (at the time), he wanted me.

      No one else ever understood that when I explained it. You all do. And now there is a phrase for it. Ah…

      1. mommypino says:

        Thank you Joanne, but I just copied that phrase from HG. I knew the abstract idea or feeling of it but I wouldn’t know how to put a name on it like HG did and when I have read it I immediately understood what he meant. I know exactly what you are saying and knowing who I was before I came across this blog, I would have totally fallen for that as well. It’s incredibly sexy and it feels so safe when someone claims with full conviction that we belong to him and we are one.
        I feel the same way; this is the only place I can find people who can understand what I experienced on a personal level. And HG always seem to find the most appropriate words to explain to us what happened.

        1. Joanne says:

          So true. And I immediately understood it too! And was so glad to have the term/phrase to attach to the feeling – like, BINGO – THIS is what I was trying to articulate back then. It’s so strange to me that this type of possessive expression would’ve been attractive to me. But again, during a seduction phase, it was incredibly sexy.

      2. Supernova DE says:

        I absolutely understand what you are talking about and the MMRN did those things with me too. I know I subconsciously relished it.

        My husband and MMRN met several times when we were young (I wasn’t married yet but was with my husband). MMRN was a total dick every time, my husband hates him! But even at that young age I could tell that the issue was that MMRN thought I was his, and somehow this vibe was conveyed to my husband. I loved it, though I would never have admitted it then, because it was so wrong to feel that way!!

        He would say things along these lines in regular conversation too. One time we were discussing music and MMRN named a song that was his favorite. I commented that my husband loved that band too. MMRN: “Silly Nate, doesn’t he know I claimed that first….among other things….”. It made me feel warm and mushy inside. So wrong. Lol

        1. Joanne says:

          I did love it too although I didn’t really outwardly admit that to him. It’s kind of funny to look back and see the overwhelming sense of entitlement he had to have made statements like that.

          1. SMH says:

            Not sure where this is landing but it is a general observation. We laugh now at their overwhelming sense of entitlement. Hell, I told MRN he owned me. He knew he did. But the thing is, it makes us feel special and that is why we fall for it – it is an ego boost for us. It might be more subtle than HG’s post, but that sort of attention and focus can be quite flattering.

          2. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

            SMH. Sometimes we fill tired. I know I do. I sometimes fantasize of someone just swooping in and saying, rest yourself dearest. I am able to fix everything for you. Just give me a GO sign, my love. lol. I always loved this clip from: Annie, titled, I Think I`m Gonna Like It here. Around 4 and 1/2 minutes. This is sort of what I want!! ~~~~

          3. SMH says:

            PSE, I’m watching this thinking ‘where’s the cake?’ ‘where’s the cake?’ ha. Minimalism.

          4. SMH: I just sent over my card to invite you to cake at your most earliest convenience. Kindly inform my messenger on your cake preferences. With great anticipation of your visit and delightful company, PrincessSuperEmpath.

          5. SMH says:

            Thank you, PSE. You are clearly a Princess. I had a cookie after I watched, but if it pleases your highness, anything with buttercream frosting will do :).

  22. E&L says:

    HG, thank you for posting this. Having just finished the audio, I tried the link for the posted explanation you suggested and fell down the WordPress rabbit hole. I’m so codependent I need “K” sitting next to me to navigate this damn site.

    1. K says:

      Ha ha ha…I am here if you need me! WP can be very testy indeed.

      1. Claire says:

        K–why are you so good at this? I need to take the time to jabber with the word press support to figure out my problems!

        1. K says:

          Ha ha ha…WP is a pain in the ass and I am low contact with them right now. My motto: let sleeping dogs lie, but sometimes things need to be addressed and then it is usually a combination of determination and serendipity that gets me through.

    2. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

      E & L! K is so wonderful! 🙂

      1. K says:

        Awwww….thank you! Your comment made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  23. Caroline-is-fine says:

    Ugh, any of that kind of talk would creep me out!

    1. Alexissmith2016 says:

      The magical thinking is all making so much sense after reading this!

      Slightly different scenario but the magical thinking part reminds me of when I was in Amsterdam several years ago. Walking through the red light district and I overheard some guys talking about one of the women in the window. She was incredibly hot and he… was not.

      The guy was talking to his friends and saying, “did you all see how much she wants me, she’s absolutely desperate for my ****. She really wants me. I’m gonna come back here and give her exactly what she wants later”.

      I remember thinking, hmmm I think she might just want your money. And also wondering how he could even think/say anything like that and whether he truly believed it.

      Now I have my answer.

      1. NarcAngel says:

        Guys in strip joints – same thing. The only thing she’s moist for is your wallet you adorable magical thinker.

        1. K says:

          Ha ha ha….that was funny!

          1. lol thanks K

          2. K says:

            My pleasure, alexissmith2016!

          3. E. B. says:

            Hello K,
            Nice to see you are here! Hope you are doing fine. I was going to ask NarcAngel about you. I hadn’t seen you commenting for a while. How have you been lately?

          4. K says:

            Hello E. B.
            It is good to see you! I am still kicking around on narcsite, just commenting less, and I am doing very well, thank you. How are you?

          5. E. B. says:

            Hi K,
            Glad to know you are doing well. The WP reader does not have a list of last comments as shown in the browser window. Good to know you are here with us.

        2. Supernova DE says:

          Totally. MMRN triangulated once by telling me about a stripper he encountered that “seriously flirted” with him all night. “Nothing happened though”.
          Me: “maybe she just wanted your dollar bills…”
          Cue silent treatment haha

        3. alexissmith2016 says:

          Hey NA I only stumbled upon your reply by chance as WP never notifies me of anything!

          Love it! the only thing she’s moist for is your wallet.

          I’m not sure whether I preferred being deluded and believing he couldn’t possibly think that. and only thinking hes a bit a knob but probably has other good qualities. Now I know he (and others) are just out and out knobs!

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