Told You So

“You know you really shouldn’t get involved with me you know, I am damaged.”

“Well, it is a little bit late for that isn’t it? I am already involved.”

“I know and I am glad to hear you tell me that, really I am, because I want you more than anything. I have not wanted anybody else in the way I want you but it is because of that I think you would be better off without me.”

“Don’t be silly, what do you mean by that?”

“You are so wonderful, so perfect. I truly have not met anyone like you. It is as if everything I have ever wanted and needed in somebody has been put together and rolled into one.”

“That is lovely of you to say, but I am not perfect, far from it.”

“To me you are.”

“Bless you, that is so sweet. I think you are wonderful too, not at all damaged. I cannot believe you said that.”

“Well I am.”

“Not from where I am sitting. You are incredible. Thoughtful, loving, attentive, interesting, sensual and so passionate. Those are just a few of the things that spring to mind when I think about you.”

“What else?”

“Oh let me see. Generous, yes generous and kind, considerate and successful. Entertaining as well. I don’t think I know anybody who can light up a room like you do. I love to watch you when you have everyone’s attention, I can see how much they love to listen to you.”

“Oh you are just saying those things to make me feel better.”

“No not at all, I mean every word, I really do. I have not met anyone as special as you and that is why I love you as I do.”

“You shouldn’t, I don’t mean to be rude, but you will only get hurt.”

“How? By you?”

“Yes.”

“How?”

“I don’t know; I just always seem to mess things up. It may sound strange but somehow I want to think, I mean, I kind of know it should work with you, with you more than anybody else, I suppose I am just terrified that what we have is so wonderful, so perfect that I might do something to ruin it and then you would be hurt and I could not stand for that to happen.”

“You see, there you are again, considerate and kind.”

“I could not live with myself if I hurt you and I just do not want to run that risk of that happening. You do not deserve to be hurt.”

“That won’t happen, I can feel it. What you and I have is something out of the ordinary.”

“Yes we have haven’t we?”

“Absolutely. I love you and you love me and nobody is going to change that.”

“I know, I know, but what if, you know I do something?”

“Like what?”

“I don’t know, it is just that well, previous relationships have not exactly been successful have they? My track record is not great.”

“No but that wasn’t your fault was it? Look, you told me all about what has happened in the past. Not many men would be so honest as you to admit to what you have gone through. That takes real courage and is typical of the honesty and decency you exude. You are a good man and you have been treated abhorrently by some wicked people. Oooh, if I ever met them, I don’t know what I would do.”

“I knew you would understand. You always do. You get me. They never did you see. I tried you know. I always tried to make it work. I just wanted both of us to be happy but you know when whatever you do is not enough? When no matter how hard you try to please somebody but they always find some kind of fault? That was them. They made me feel like it was my fault a lot of the time. They had that way of twisting everything around so I was made out to be the villain. It is hard to explain it, but that is what they did.”

“I understand. There are some people who just delight in the misery of other people but that is not going to happen with you and me.”

“No?”

“No. We have both suffered previously.”

“I know. That is why I do not want to hurt you, you have had enough from the past and you deserve to be treated properly.”

“Well that is what you do. I could not ask for a better boyfriend, I really could not. You put me first, ahead of everything and you do so much for me. I really do appreciate it and each day I feel more in love with you because of what you do for me.”

“Thank you. That is all I want. Both of us to be happy. I think it must just be because of what has happened in the past, I am worried that this time, having found you, it will go wrong again and you will be hurt and I could not live with that.”

“Honestly, there is nothing to worry about. You have just been made to feel like this because of what they have done to you. It is understandable. I know you won’t hurt me. How could anyone who says the things you say to me ever hurt me? I have never had someone say the wonderful and beautiful things you say to me before. You leave me in tears. Tears of happiness admittedly because you just know what to say, you understand me.”

“Yes. There is a connection and it is deep and meaningful and I do not want that ever to be severed. I will fight to my dying breath to stay connected to you. I want to become you.”

“See, there you go again, saying the most wonderful things.”

“You bring it out in me. If it wasn’t for you I don’t know what I would do.”

“Well you don’t have to wonder do you? You’ve got me and you always will have.”

“Do you mean that?”

“Absolutely.”

“You see I am really in heaven every time we kiss. I don’t ever want to hurt you or lose you.”

“That will never happen. You have me forever.”

“I hope so, I really do.”

“You do. Now, let’s not have any more talk about you hurting me, that isn’t going to happen. We have the rest of our lives to be together and be happy. Let me get another bottle of wine, no, it is my turn, you stay there. You do enough running around after me, let me do something for you for a change.”

“Okay, same again please.”

“Coming right up. I love you.”

“I love you too.”

77 thoughts on “Told You So

  1. Tamara says:

    Foolish me… always believing in the fairytale. No one had hoped, dreamt, or given up more than, I, for the illusion. Had The Good Lord not opened my eyes, I could have been in for the biggest hurt in history.

  2. Kiki says:

    Ok Abe , blocking him is about to happen and this time it’s a stealth move by me .I didn’t wail and weep or show him any emotion ,yes not the nice dollop of fuel he expected I think .I wailed here thankfully .He will not get any emotion from me now.

    This is my stealth move , because he has no idea I know what I know .

    No emotion
    No reaction
    Nothing I’m just gonna disappear .

    1. Abe Moline says:

      Well done, Kiki! 🙂

      I am really happy for you (and for me, being part of the “firefighters team” who supported you in taking this decision – it’s a first for me too, and it really feels great to witness the results of trying to help. So, I thank you).

      Let us know how it goes…

      1. NarcAngel says:

        Abe M
        It’s great to have your male perspective and support here.

        1. MB says:

          I second.

          1. Abe Moline says:

            NA, MB,

            Thank you.

            I feel a bit cuddled now… 😀

          2. NarcAngel says:

            Abe M
            Saucy. That type of talk could lead to a spanking.

          3. MB says:

            Haha NA! You had a totally different reaction to his comment than I did. I was thinking along the lines of “don’t feed the animals”

            “Don’t cuddle the Dirty Empath!” Dangerous in a different way.

  3. Kiki says:

    Hi Abe

    I was no contact for many months. not a peep from me.
    Did I block him no, why, I didn’t because I still can’t do it. psychologically. That’s the truth no excuse.
    It makes me extremely depressed and anxious. that may sound pathetic and it is.
    So I just went away and left him off.
    My gosh I sound a bit insane writing this.am I just like a narc also I can’t close the door.

    Kiki

    1. Abe Moline says:

      Did you try though?
      How do you know it will make you “depressed and anxious”?

      1. Kiki says:

        Yes believe me I did but not hard enough.
        Ok if I try to block I feel like I’m being pushed over the edge of a cliff with no going back.
        It’s insane I know but I feel this terrible sadness that depresses me ,makes me mope and think about the narc even more.
        I suppose it’s like a smoker , a person I know smoked but could not do it unless he had a pack of cigs in the drawer .He never went back smoking but the thought the cigs were in the drawer helped .If he had thrown away all cigs he would have panicked and rushed out yo buy some.The cigs are still in the drawer by the way.
        The reemergence of Pamela on other posts is quite mad though and taking my mind off it.She is getting a bit too aggressive I really wonder what the matter is with her.I hate to diss her part of me feels maybe she is just hurt or crazy I don’t know
        Kiki

        Thanks Abe

        1. Abe Moline says:

          Unfortunately, you’ll have to do it, there is no other way to get rid of him for good (quite logical this, because he’ll always try to return, sooner or later, through your open door).

          There’s one small logic failure in your smoking analogy: the pack of cigs won’t come out of the drawer by themselves. They also have no desire or need to be smoked. Your narc can do this, needs this, and he did it.
          After blocking him, you’ll be the one to decide when (if) you take the cigs out of the drawer, and the analogy will be complete.

          I’m still not sure what you mean – did you manage to block him for a short while and felt depressed afterward? Or just the thought of blocking makes you depressed?
          I’m asking because in my experience blocking felt like such a relief and also made me feel like getting back some of my power and control.

          You also worry too much about others (i.e. PD). Crazy, hurt, whatever – she’s a bitch, just like your narc. No excuses for her, or for your narc.

          1. Kiki says:

            Hi Abe yes you are correct. No I didn’t block just never reached out again. iwas always the one to reach out.
            In a way I’m feeling insulted I’m 15 years younger than the narc and I feel ok I let my guard down but heck he has some serious ego.
            It is a bit humiliating to be honest.
            I will get over this slip Abe you are very kind and straight talking.
            I know. I should not have reacted to Pamela but it just got to me. Is she hurting and doesn’t know how to express that but when I saw the curse talk I just thought this is beyond normal.
            It’s very hurtful and plain nasty.

          2. Abe Moline says:

            “Serious ego” is probably an understatement… 🙂
            He’ll want you to feel humiliated. Blocking him would get back some of your self esteem. When you’re ready, give it a go. You might be surprised about how it actually feels.

            You’re still here, and most important is that you still understand what it is that you have to do. You learned a lesson, that is the good part of it.

            I wish you good luck, Kiki.

          3. empath007 says:

            I agree with Abe. And about the smoking… the person smoking has to hit the point where they are ready. That anxiety you feel…

            that’s the voice of addiction.

            it’s powerful and it’s holding you back.

            Your addiction is keeping you afraid to end things for good and fully go no contact.

            You Have to want to overcome it. And that’s ok if it takes a few tries. The average person takes 7 attempts to leave an abusive relationship.

            You can do it. Everyone on here believes you can. Now you just have to believe it.

  4. Kiki says:

    I want to Thank each and everyone of you for your kindness and support .This community is so caring and such a support.
    I am getting back on the HG horse today so to speak.
    Again thank you everyone that offered your great advice and help it means a lot .

    Kiki

  5. Tayna says:

    HG, or someone else please advise
    How to act when I meet my ex narcissist on street after year of NC.
    I met him twice lately I totally ignored him, maybe it’s wrong because he appears in front of me again?????

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Ignore and walk away,

    2. E. B. says:

      Hi Tayna,
      You will find some more helpful advice in these two articles:
      How to Reduce Giving Fuel to the Narcissist
      But what if He is There too? – Part One

  6. Kiki says:

    Thank you so much Ladies

    It’s weird the scary feeling I have.
    It’s like if I’m.discarded now again I’m worthless.
    My logical thinking or my emotional thinking one of them is terrifying me.

    I can not go through what he did to me again it destroyed me for several years.
    I sobbed, became depressed and I actually felt I had the strength and wits to face him again. I was Wrong.

    We haven’t seen each other in 3 years and this is how bad I feel, that he doesn’t like me anymore.

    1. blackunicorn123 says:

      Kiki, I would also like to add, it may be worth you reflecting on the source of the feelings of abandonment that he creates in you. I think you can see you are being triggered, and maybe you can also see whether the feelings of abandonment are a throwback to something else? Often, it is a replay of an abandonment from early childhood. It may not be either, but this is where I’d start. If you can figure this part out it may reduce his grip on you, because this is not about him, it’s about you reliving an old event. All he is doing is reinforcing an unjustified internal belief you hold about yourself xx

      1. Lou says:

        I agree.

    2. WiserNow says:

      Kiki,

      I can understand that you want to feel the love of a man. It’s natural to want that and it’s painful being lonely sometimes.

      It may help to look at relationships from a different perspective. What if you were in a marriage or relationship and you wanted desperately to get out and you couldn’t?

      I recently googled some information about passive aggressive behaviour and found myself reading a long comments section after an article about what women ‘should’ do if they’re married to an angry man.

      Well, after reading about a hundred comments from extremely unhappy wives and girlfriends, stuck in relationships with men that were impossible to live with, belligerent, snappy, selfish, immature and angry all the time, it was an eye-opener.

      It made me think that *not* being in a relationship was a blessing in disguise. I felt so peaceful and serene as I left that blog, shut down my computer, and made myself a cup of coffee in absolutely blissful peace and quiet.

      There is something to be said for living alone and being happy. You need to be happy with yourself first and then you will attract a man because you *want* to and not because you *need* to.

      1. Kiki says:

        Hi Wiser now

        You know you are correct.Not having to answer to a man and put up with his less than nice behaviour is a great bonus when single.
        I do admit I like my own space ,my own bed ,I can do what I like when I like .
        I do not have to pander to a man ,and yes I can slob around in my pj on a dull evening with unshaven legs Hahha.
        I was married very young , it didn’t work ,my ex husband is now deceased .
        I will admit I was always really a career woman at heart.
        Sometimes though I really miss intimacy , I know lots of guys would be willing to go for NSA for a quick fix ,but that is where my problem lies .I can’t do NSA , I have to feel a bond ,and I bond very quickly .
        I’m not sure what other Ladies do .I don’t want to wake up in ten years if Im still here and realise I’m celibate still with no intimacy.
        Plus intimacy with my ex narc was very powerful ,I miss it ,I just do,
        Sometimes I wish us women didn’t bond after intimacy so easily ,it would be much easier .

        Kiki

        1. WiserNow says:

          Kiki,

          I know what you mean. Having your own space and independence is great, but after a while, it can get boring. You start to miss having intimacy and bonding with a man. Like HG says though, it has to be the *right* man. A narc isn’t the right kind of man, especially in the long run.

          1. Sisty says:

            I’d add that sex with a narc, no matter how good it is, never really involves intimacy.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Correct

      2. NarcAngel says:

        WiserNow
        Good point. People have a tendency to lose seeing the value in what they have currently and romanticize whatever it is they don’t have. Then when they do get it, they realize it isn’t quite as they imagined or they remember why they were without it. Guess that’s why the divorce rate is so high and there are so many unhappy people as in the comments you read. They just want to do as you did and have a peaceful cup of coffee without the television blaring with some sport you don’t care for and putting the seat down for the hundredth time before you’re asked: Is there anything to eat around here?

        And that’s just a normal haha.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          The divorce rate is so high mainly because of my kind.

          1. WiserNow says:

            HG,
            I think your kind approach marriage for very different reasons than non-narcs do. Your kind see it as part of their facade and their partner is an appliance. Most non-narcs are more personally invested than that.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            WN,
            Please see this article for the mindset.
            https://narcsite.com/2017/04/15/the-narcissist-and-marriage/

          3. WiserNow says:

            Thanks for the link HG.
            It’s quite amazing to me that a narcissist has all those motivations to marry someone, yet none of them equate to love or even genuine respect for the other person, if nothing else. It makes me consider marriage in a very different way from the rose-coloured glasses way I tended to see it with.

          4. Desirée says:

            I always thought it was strange that those statistics take the totality of all marriages into account. Isn’t it only the first marriage that would matter in order to determine overall success? That would also keep the narcissists with their 5th, 6th and 7th wifes from rigging the numbers.

          5. empath007 says:

            Hm. Maybe. But long term
            Monogomas relationships are difficult to achieve even for normals. The expectations are unrealistic and honestly not a lot of people can hold down any sort of “perfect” marriage for too long. In fact…. it doesn’t exist. And it never will.

            People need to get passed the fantasy of what marriage is supposed to be like and that’s hard for a lot of people.
            Comunication is paramount and there tends to be a break down for a lot of couples especially after kids come along.

            Narcs can be capable of holding down a long term facade. I knew one who’s been married for 18 years now. I’m sure she’s cheated but regardless the marriage still remains. For a lot of narcs the facade is extremely important.

          6. EmP says:

            I have never been a fan of marriage. I used to think people would just ‘grow tired’ and/or finally realise that the institution of marriage was against nature.
            I still think marriage is against nature and, having educated myself about the narcissistic dynamic (here), I like it even less. The ’till death do us part’ idea is just insane. And of course very narcissist-friendly. Marriages should have expiry dates. Just like yogurt.

        2. WiserNow says:

          NarcAngel,
          Yes, I know what you mean. It’s a case of the grass always being greener on the other side.

          1. NarcAngel says:

            WiserNow
            Especially lush over a septic tank.

          2. WiserNow says:

            Lol NarcAngel 😂 ..that’s a very good way of looking at it! It pays to remember that when you see someone with a great facade. I’ll remember the words, “lush grass, septic tank underneath” 😂😂

  7. Kiki says:

    Dear Ladies ,HG I did something stupid.
    I was ,am feeling lonely and I fell for ex narcs Hoover.
    I kept thinking maybe he is not a narc , we met , nothing more ,but I have this dread that the axe is going to fall anytime .
    I don’t think I’m in the headspace to take a wallop of rejection AGAIN.
    I feel weak and stupid.
    I wish I could just meet someone nice but it seems I can’t , I’m a divorced career woman .
    I just want to feel a mans love ,pathetic I know but that’s all.
    I’m attractive ,very very intelligent and keep in good shape,I’ve done everything from Botox to Fillers ,waxing ,hair done it costs a fortune .
    My brain is the only thing that has worked positively to enhance my life.
    I’m even worried I may have high functioning Aspergers and I’m unaware hence that’s why I have no man in my life.
    I feel sad and I know this post sounds pathetic but it’s how I feel right now.

    Kiki

    1. Abe Moline says:

      He IS a narc, Kiki.

      Always remember this and take care!

      This could be like an (important) addition to the first golden rule:
      When you know, you go and *never forget or doubt what you know*!

    2. KellyD says:

      Dear Kiki, I do something stupid nearly every day, and definitely every time I reply to the narc. We are all works in progress. I know you feel you’ve let yourself down but look, you recognize your error and you’re here asking for support to fix it. Don’t beat yourself up, just get back on your path you want to be on, the path leading away from him and the pain he brings. We can always make ourselves think they’re redeemable but logically we know they’re not for us. Stay strong and try again to right yourself. You’re father along than me. I’m just struggling to begin. We’re all here for each other. Building each other up, one empath at a time.

      1. Kiki says:

        Thank you Kelly ,despite my slip being here strengthened me and it will you too.
        HG is always correct ,I don’t know how but he is that’s what I have learned.
        Trust him in what he says ,your heart will scream no at first but keep reading ,keep listening and I personally found Exorcising the narc a must have read ,esp when you start longing for the golden period again. It helps you prepare as the longing takes time a lot of time to diminish.

        Kiki

    3. Presque Vu says:

      Kiki first of all you are not weak or stupid. You have an addiction and addictions can be treated and broken.

      Just start again. Day 1. Tomorrow will be day 2 and so on.

      I read somewhere that it takes us at least several attempts to get away, I know I did. But each time you get that little bit stronger.

      The thing that spurned me on, to battle every hoover, to bat them away, to protect myself by giving him the silent treatment was the fact I drowned in HG’s videos AND challenged myself to little victories for eg – I will not respond for one month… by the time that month came up… I thought I would go another month etc and before I knew it – it was 16 months! No contact now 2yrs in October!

      You have no man in your life, because this one is still there sucking the life out of you.

      You are not pathetic, you are in the emotional sea still – but by being here on this blog – reading/listening and joining in – you’re amongst strong inspiring women here and you are one of them!

      You made a mistake, you recognised it, you’ll learn from it, with working through your emotional thinking – you will not ever go back. There is strength in abundance when hurt to such a degree – the only way is up! (As Yazz says)

      All the best Kiki, hold that head high girl!

      1. Quote Of The Morning: [ `You have no man in your life, because this one is still there sucking the life out of you.` ] ~~Presque Vu

      2. Joanne says:

        Well said, PV.

      3. Kiki says:

        Thank you so much
        I emailed him to tell him I know at any moment he could discard me again. he went silent for a few days and I’m going crazy.
        I am not needy but my gut is warning me.
        We haven’t seen each other in quite awhile normally a man is a bit more communicative at this stage.
        It’s like a dark feeling of terror that he is poised to reject me Again.
        I had to get in first and tell him I can’t do this again.
        Why am I feeling so insecure I’ve just shot him down in my email and I want to run away and cry.

        1. Abe Moline says:

          Most probably, you will be rejected. He had you again. He must be very pleased with himself, with or without your email (but I guess the more emails, the better, more powerful and more in control of you he feels).

          He never liked you. He used you.

          Please recognize this is the truth, Kiki, and go NC! For your own good… Cut you losses now. Just gather whatever strength you have left and go NC. Again. As many times as necessary, you have to do it!

          You’ll figure it out later, but now it’ NC time! Please.

          1. Kiki says:

            Thank you Abe ,

            You are giving it to me straight I appreciate that and need it .
            Kiki

          2. NarcAngel says:

            Abe M
            Great advice.

        2. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

          Dear Kiki: It feels so bad even though you disengaged first, is because you did so, because you have to, because of his behavior, and not because you wanted to. I know this, because I asked HG the exact same question a while back, and that is what he explained to me. So, it hurts. It was a survival move, but it is still a good move!!! Feelings have their own weird time table to settle themselves, so we can not by any means wait for our feelings to be on point. What we have to do, is to do what is logical and often painful first, and our feelings will just have to catch up. So, our feelings can not lead us, especially when they go against our well being. You did the right thing, although it did not bring you much relief. But, over time the right moves are definitely progressive and will be good for you. This is the battle.

          1. Kiki says:

            Thank you. Yes a survival move. I had to do it. I had to take back control as being in control that is what he thrives on.
            I know what is to come now. I will be ignored but at least I know that.
            He will expect begging emails in a few weeks but nope not going to happen.
            That is the v reason he hoovered I cut all contact for months.
            A shock for him.
            I am an appliance to bolster his ego I know.it hurts but it could have been a lot worse. Maybe my sense of dread was my protection mechanism.

        3. Joanne says:

          Time to block him.

    4. Bluewave says:

      Stop doing Botox and other stuff that could make you look desperate. If you have money start going on trips, take photos, meet new people, find passion, stop focusing on a narcissist. Lead a happy busy life – this is the only method of finding a man. And sometime you could realise that if you are happy you don’t need a man desperately.

      It is normal that after relationship with narcissist we feel drained, unloved, not enough. But finding a man right away won’t help, believe me. You must work on your self confidence without a man.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Correct as far as it goes, but when it comes to finding a man or woman you need to ensure you avoid the wrong ones, namely narcissists and therefore this requires the reduction of emotional thinking and the building of logic defences, otherwise the work you have undertaken as you have described will be undone.

      2. Kiki says:

        Hi Bluewave ,
        Believe me I am not glamorous far from it , a bit geeky actually.
        I suppose Botox etc is a secret treat I do for myself ,not that it changes anything much.
        Many celebs look hideous not because of Botox done right,but bad lifts ,too much filler , and bad overdone Botox,with horrible Spovk eyebrows.With so much money how do they manage to find such bad practitioners is beyond me.
        Done right it just makes you look a bit less tired ,why do I do it ,because euro for Euro in the long run it’s cheaper than gimmicky wrinkle creams .
        filler , just tiny tiny bit in the cheeks stops that drawn face look as I have a slim face.
        Nobody notices it just me .

        1. Lorelei says:

          Treat yourself Kiki—it sounds good to do for you. Just catching up here.

    5. foolme1time says:

      Kiki

      You are not pathetic or weak, you also are not the first or last person that has fell for a narcs Hoover. Take a step back, breath, cry, and get over it. Now just start over as if this is day one, you will be fine my dear, you say you want a mans love, first you must love yourself from the inside out, changing your outside appearance is fine but not if you are doing it to find love, we are so much more then great hair Botox, and boob jobs! Remember Kiki, if you are looking for a mans love, then love yourself first and then a man that can love will find you! A narcissist cannot ever love.
      Take care sweet Kiki! 🌻

      1. Kiki says:

        Thank you foolme1time
        Your message of support has made me feel much better today

        Kiki

        1. foolme1time says:

          I’m glad it has helped you Kiki. Keep your head high. You’ll get through this sweetie. One day at a time, one step at a time. 😘

    6. Joanne says:

      Kiki,
      Abe is right. He IS a narc. I’ve gone through this same internal battle inside my brain over and over. Even now that I am NC, he still remains in my thoughts and I still struggle with “is he or isn’t he?” Total waste of time. He ticks the boxes. Maybe he isn’t *AS AWFUL* as some of these other narcs – OR — maybe I just didn’t last long enough to find out how deep his evil goes. Who knows. It’s all very confusing, and the lack of closure and lack of acknowledgement is so difficult. We all mess up. You can start again. This feeling of impending rejection just proves that you know what he is. I know you don’t want to be alone. But being alone is better than being NO ONE to someone else. He can’t love you. He does not care. Protect your heart. Today is day 1. Your soul will thank you for this.

      1. Abe Moline says:

        I can understand feeling pity, trying to help, not believing that it’s impossible to fix them. But knowing for sure that one is a narc and then no longer believing it, I can’t really understand.

        You have to develop a solid reflex here. When this thought comes, you need to reject it immediately. You can have happy thoughts about the golden period (not recommended), regrets, whatever. You can deal with them one way or another. But him/here being a narc – that is the ultimate truth! You can’t allow negating this to seep into your mind or you’re fucked…

        And it is the truth! Even if it’s just a very narcissistic person, it does not matter. You were hurt, hence This Is The Truth!

        The first rule is the most important and it’s based on KNOWING! The second part of it is not the most important. The first one is:

        When you KNOW, you go!

        Sorry, I don’t want to sound harsh… but it’s very important. I truly believe this to be like the cornerstone of our entire defense…

        1. WiserNow says:

          Well said Abe.

    7. E. B. says:

      Hello Kiki,

      They say healing is not linear. Two steps forward and one step back is moving forward. Next time he hoovers you, it will get easier for you to ignore him.

      I do not think your post sounds pathetic. Since human beings are social beings, I think it is natural to want an emotional connection with others. The problem is that it is not possible to create a safe, reliable emotional bond with a narcissist. The Golden Period was an illusion. It was manufactured by the narcissist to make you believe that it was real and to control you.
      If you continue reading, your E.T. will be reduced and you will be able to apply your logical thinking more often.

  8. Dita says:

    Yep..

    1. Hi Kiki: It think it is a phase we go through: what is this. what is a narcissist. wow, he is a narcissist. I am learning and I feel better. maybe, I am the narcissist. I am feeling much better. maybe he is not the narcissist. I am well on my road to recovery. I miss the narcissist. Then the Hoover at this moment. and it works. To my utter disbelief, despite what HG warns us about that it is never over, I was hoovered at that point also, by His Somatic Highness, the Narcissist, but some other considerations and circumstances prevented me from going under, so to speak, at that time. I dodged an emotional roller-coaster bullet. Whew! So, just go back to the Drawing Board. It is still there, and I could tell you were healing. Be careful. Just because one falls, does not mean one has to fall All The Way To The Bottom, okay? I think very highly of you. Back to the drawing board. You can do it. If he becomes too much, let HG take him on, so to speak. You know a lot this time around. So I doubt that you will let the fog absolutely suffocate you. That logical thinking has been awake for a while with you lately, so do not let it go down the drain without a fight. I am not sure that a lot of nice guys are out there, during these modern times. So, have patience and do not get desperate. I live in NYC and there are so many desperate women, it is scary. One can see the light of desperation in their eyes. Do not go there. It is not a pretty sight, no matter how pretty the woman.

      1. Whitney says:

        Princesssuperempath I like you 😊 you are wise and interesting and nice. I like reading your comments. Especially the last part about desperate women. Always interesting and unique observations about people

        1. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

          Thank you, Whitney.

      2. Dear Kiki: `We just have to be mindful and take it day by day, and take what we are learning here very seriously once we know and are convinced to our own selves that the information and guidance works. But, we still have to do the work. Sigh. And go through the pain of healing and growing. Growing pains. It hurts. That is why it is called Growing PAINS. HG Tudor can tell us 24/7, to stop crossing the street during a red light. And he can tell us why and how and show us what can and usually happens if we continue to so. And he sure does, and in so many substantive ways! However, we may still say, it is difficult, and we are used to crossing when it is red, and so far, we have not been in a deadly accident, but then one day: BOOM! He was right after all, about the crossings. Our time frame for implementing necessary changes was used up a bit. BAM! So we do the best we can with this info. day by day, and do our utmost to implement as much as we can and will, steadfastly, before BOOM! and BAM! happens. Time is precious and time Flies ` ~~PSE

      3. Kiki says:

        You are so sweet and kind to reply to me like this.
        You made me smile .Yes all it took was one meet and the mixture went flooding me.
        I feel so raw and emotional ,like every painful trigger has been set or reawakened.
        During our meet it was fine but I’m terrified of being abandoned again.

        He spoke a lot about his feelings , why things happened for him but not about mine at all.I found it hard to talk about how I felt.
        Only afterwards did I slowly realise my feelings of hurt weren’t acknowledged or gone and these scars and the residual hurt literally bitch slapped me in the face .I can’t pretend it’s fine.
        He didn’t fully acknowledge the pain he caused me ,therefore it will always be there I suppose lurking underneath.

        1. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

          Kiki. Pain hurts. But, pain is also A Beneficial Reminder. Ignore pain at your own risk: Like, HEY! Do not touch that hot stove again with your tender fingers. Or, HEY! There are thorns on those roses. Or, HEY! That guy is making you feel nauseous and debilitated no matter how you look at it. Or, HEY! If you wait too long you will have given absolutely all your looks and hopes and ability to love a good man to a Narcissist who is currently working on new supply and old supply, and old standbys when he is bored, or taking a breather, and primary and secondary sources, and a Dirty little Secret, and some secret fetishes, and focusing on possible dream girls on the internet, etc. all fueled by dealing with you. Because `you give good love,` and you are handy for now. There Will Be No Reward For Your Sacrifice. It just does not work that way, okay? HEY! And, this is not good. HEY! Beware of Narcissists. You can not fix yourself and be his therapist, Kiki. HEY! I mean it. Time flies, Kiki. If you did not think you were better than this, you would not ask for assistance. So continue to fight. You have to have at least some fight in you, in this game. Take a day off and cry and watch some movies and sleep in or whatever. Drink! But, then shut that down, after giving yourself a day or 2 to mourn the relapse. You should never be ashamed of having feelings. Just reign them in when they are causing you harm. Come on, now. Women that are slaves to their emotions, can not win in this game in this world, especially when dealing with a Narcissist. And, if this continues, Narcissists will be the only army left fighting in this life. It would be a miserable state of being on this planet if this comes to be.

          1. Kiki says:

            Thank you super empath.
            You and all the Ladies here have been so kind with your advice. It has really helped me feel a lot better.
            Abe you are not being harsh you are right. emotional thinking just swamped over me and I wanted to believe he cared despite all the evidence and pain.
            Part of me also wanted to see how far along I’ve come.
            Ladies please don’t make that mistake.
            I felt hypnotised by my own longing for him to be a decent man and by his talk of his feelings.
            It’s a deadly mix and your logic will fly out the Window.
            My unease I think is my logical thinking kicking in now.
            It hit me like a train today as I could feel all the pain of a possible discard rushing at me.
            All it took was no messages in two days and wham I was back to the awful dread feeling in my stomach.
            I have felt so free lately I was taking it for granted. A bit lonely yes but lonely is much better than devastation.
            I never want to invite pain like that again.

            You are all angels xx

        2. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

          Kiki: Just think of it as you being an owner of a gasoline station. And you enjoy owning it and enjoy supplying fuel. But you want to be rewarded by your one and only specially treated customer that is also your V.I.P. customer. Because your fuel is valuable. But, this guy just comes and fuels himself, treats you badly and forces you to toss him out, or he just leaves, and he leaves without any appreciation and just takes your fuel, using the strength of it to visit other gas stations on his journey in life, here and there and out and about, until for whatever reason, there is a disruption in his fuel supply in his travels, and he knows you are weeping for him, so he swings back around to you again, to vacay, before taking off with more of your fuel. To go back on the road again. Free as a bird. Unlucky you. Not really the business model you had in mind. And, he is not carrying himself like the type of customer for whom you went through the trouble of owning and maintaining this valuable fuel business. Because he is a nomad. Unthankful. Selfish. Dis-contented. In short: Not good for your product. You. In fact, your fuel supply and you will go bankrupt. And if you took out loans to establish your fuel station, and now you can not make it a going concern, because of your investment in him and because of him, and you are going in the red and not paying back the money for this investment, and did not plan a fail safe for yourself, someone may come and break your kneecaps, and this nomad will not even be around to help you. Silent Treatment. And because he is on the road again. Somewhere else. With someone else. So the next time he swings around, to top himself off again with your fuel, before he is on the road again, be sure the gas station is shut down and has a Closed Forever sign on it. And when he swings around again needing some fuel, after that time, hoping that you finally are weeping for him once more, make sure the entire gasoline station is missing and he has no way to find it, because you swept your trail behind you as you departed. Happy Trails for him. But, you are now: Gone Without a Trace.

          1. Kiki says:

            Omg yes Princess super empath this is a fantastic analogy exactly how I am feeling.

            Sucking up my energy to bolster himself then I get some weird excuse from him afterwards.
            He replied but I’m fearful of going into details in case he sees this.

            Word Salad I guess.
            What I notice is the sheer lack of foresight , why the heck meet me if you are conflicted etc .
            Today I feel a bit angry ,angry at myself for being so available and eager. I will not let this knock me back.
            I took my healing for granted a little over the last while ,HG really does a great job in helping us ,we are getting stronger alright but I became complacent. I got to the stage where sobbing on the floor and obsessively checking my phone was long gone so I felt I can deal with this now.
            HG is right the mixture will be stirred in an instant .

            I could feel that pathetic mindset creeping in again out of fear yesterday.

            Kiki

          2. Abe Moline says:

            Kiki,

            What is preventing you from going NC?

          3. Lorelei says:

            Love this example!

        3. Bibi says:

          Kiki, you make an important observation:

          “He spoke a lot about his feelings , why things happened for him but not about mine at all.I found it hard to talk about how I felt.
          Only afterwards did I slowly realise my feelings of hurt weren’t acknowledged or gone and these scars and the residual hurt literally bitch slapped me in the face .I can’t pretend it’s fine.
          He didn’t fully acknowledge the pain he caused me ,therefore it will always be there I suppose lurking underneath.”

          This is something you have come to notice and a big red flag. I have come to learn that I have had a lot of narcs enter my life and none of them ever thought about how I felt or asked how I was. Yet we continually think about them, we alter our behavior based on their needs (for me, it was, ‘I’ll just give him time and space…’)

          We worry about our appearances–be it looks or do I appear needy and obsessed? Etc. But never did the narc ever say things to me like,

          ‘I just worry that you might feel…’

          ‘I was wondering how you might feel…’

          ‘What do you think about…?’

          ‘I can imagine how painful this must be for you…’

          They NEVER ask us questions, once the Golden is done. And by questions I don’t mean shallow crap, but where we stand on things, what our perception is, etc.

          This is not someone you want in your life. But it is good that you have come to realize and notice this on your own.

          They don’t ask these questions of us because they don’t care how we feel. They might say that they do, but someone who cares asks you how you feels, what you think and really considers it, examines their own actions, and does so not with the purpose of using it against you.

          He doesn’t ask because he doesn’t care. Now your next step is to also not care–about him and the fact that he doesn’t care.

  9. susisorglos66 says:

    Wow….

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