Narc Magnet


You are a magnet. You attract our kind. You have done so at least once and you will continue to do so. Again and again. There is no hope for anything else. As an empath, super empath or co-dependent you radiate with the traits which draw us to you. Hitherto you had no awareness that this was the case. You would enter a room and be oblivious to the heads that turned your way as our kind detected your presence. You would have noticed that you were receiving the attention of people, but back then you had no knowledge of who was engaging with you or why that was the case. You have several sets of traits which appeal to us. These are the empathic traits, the class traits and the special traits. It is your empathic traits which stand out most of all.

These are evident in the way that you behave, the words you say, the gestures you use and the expressions that form on your face. The way your interact with people, the way you look about a room, the way you walk, the way you sit, the place you decide to sit and so many other things indicate to us your empathic nature. In the same way that everything we do is marked with the taint of our narcissism, everything that you do is stamped with the essence of your empathic traits.

When you walk into the hunting ground of our kind, you are identified promptly as exhibiting potential. It as if you give off a fuel signature, like some kind of scent which our kind smells and recognises as soon as you come near. You once did not see the Lesser as he leant against the bar and noticed you as soon as you entered the premises, his eyes fixed on you as he observed your entrance. The Mid-Ranger would look up from where was sat and find himself drawn to you, that unmistakable essence which you give off, being picked up and identified. Both Lesser and Mid-Range would not know why they wanted to engage with you save that they felt a compulsion to do so.

This need arises in the same way that a lion knows that it is hungry and therefore it must find some prey. The Lesser and the Mid-Ranger’s antennae twitch as you the empath walk through the bar. They are alerted to your presence and then they will watch and pick up on the other indicators which tell them what you are.

The Greater sees you and knows what you are. His lascivious grin indicative of the thoughts which are running through his mind as he begins to assess your suitability. You are signalling to him who you are, that you are empathic, that fuel is passing him by and an opportunity has presented itself.

Once upon a time you were oblivious. You walked through this den of narcissistic intent, unaware of the parasitic creatures that waited to climb down from their waiting perches so that they could engage with you, coil about you and draw you into their web with their silver-tongues and charm. You just thought they were being pleasant, polite and taking an interest. You had no idea how much danger you were in as you allowed your empathic traits to shine like a beacon. Each and every day you radiated these traits, issuing a sub-conscious “come and get me” to our kind. How good it felt to receive this attention. How pleasant it was to be courted in this manner.

As our kind picked up on your empathic scent and were drawn to you, they sought additional confirmations, assessing your class traits and hopefully special traits too, through a combination of instinct and design, dependent on which school of narcissist you had engaged with.

You do this as as easily as you inhale and exhale. Your traits are imprinted on you and they are indelible. They are part of your core and you cannot remove them. You cannot flick a switch and turn off these empathic traits. They are you. Imagine you will if some kind of glasses were created which allowed a physical representation of your empathic traits as hues of red light. If one donned those glasses and looked into this hunting ground as above, a bar perhaps, then one would see several things.

First there would be the normals who would have a slight red glow about them, indicating some empathic traits but limited in number and extent. There would be the dark and empty spaces which are where our kind lurk, the empathic traits completely devoid. Next one would see the dancing trails of scarlet and rose that signify the empath. The roaring flames of riotous red which blaze and indicate the presence of the super empath and then the supernova of bright red which is the signature of the co-dependent. As your gaze swept the room, one would see these differing hues and varying intensity, all indicative of the ever present empathic traits.

It is impossible for you to become incognito. You are unable to remove your empathic traits. You cannot switch them off and pass undetected. Accordingly, you will always stand out to our kind. You will always be identifiable, you will be seen and therefore if our kind is in the vicinity, whether physically proximate or through the accessibility of technology, we will be drawn to you. Like sharks which scent blood, like the hungry dog which smells meat, we pick you out and converge on you in anticipation of the fuel that will flow from you.

You will aways be a magnet for our kind. You have been created with empathic traits and you will always keep them. You will remain that beacon which we see and flock to. You will always attract us.

Of course you may learn to dampen down the manifestation of your empathic traits by altering some of your behaviours. Certain actions, words and gestures might be reduced, lessened and altered to reduce the extent of the empathic traits which you exhibit, but your traits always shine through and you cannot maintain this cloaking for long. It is contrary to who you are how you conduct yourself. Your empathic traits are so extensive that even when you have suffered the beasting at our hands and mouths, that when you have been drained, numbed and exhausted, the empathic traits will remain.

The empath will not shine with them as brightly and following the full horror of the devaluation and discard,t he empath will not function with such an obvious display of empathic traits because the brutality of the treatment will cause some diminution in function and display.

The super empath will continue to display these empathic traits because this person has the capacity to endure so much and then still have sufficient function to escape what has happened, once there is the eventual realisation as to what has happened. Once the super empath has had enough, they will seek their escape and their empathic traits continue to shine brightly.

The co-dependent, no matter how brow-beaten, how ground into the dirt he or she is, will continue to exhibit those empathic traits because the co-dependent would rather give you his or her last breath rather than take it for themselves. They continue to give, even when there seems there is nothing more that can be taken and thus their empathic traits remain on display.

This is why it is so often the case that you are almost passed from one of our kind to another. You are discarded but your empathic traits remain evident and thus another of our kind flocks to you, ready to gorge on the fuel which is generated by your empathic traits. Even if you escape, you continue to signal your suitability to us. You are unable to do anything other than stand out in this way.

It is only when you have gained the insight and understanding into knowing who it is that you keep attracting and why, that you finally learn what to watch out for. You cannot change what you are, indeed, why should you? What you can alter is your ability to identify us when we make that bee-line for you. As you radiate empathic traits, we also exhibit the narcissistic traits which once understood and once recognised in the behaviour of the everyday, mean you finally see and take notice of the red flags, flashing lights and blaring klaxons which herald this danger.

You will always be destined to be a magnet for us. That will never change. We will flock to you, be attracted to you and seek you out, our instincts seeking that scent of the empath which tells us that our needs will be met and fuel will be provided.

You will draw our interest and attention because the empathic traits flow from you. You will, once you gain the knowledge and understanding, know who it is who has joined you at the bar and flashed you that winning smile and then you can the seize the power.

230 thoughts on “Narc Magnet

  1. Whitney says:

    HG 💛🌞 you are a genius and so vibrant and charismatic. I find it hard to understand your creature, or hollow feeling inside. Maybe it’s because you “don’t love”. Love is the essence and meaning of life. What else is of consequence? I think you do love HG.
    You have black and white thinking about yourself. You are dynamic like any genius.
    Regarding this article, after my 12 year relationship where I could barely leave the house, and my 2 year relationship with a narcissist, I have attracted SO MANY Narcs in 1 year. HG you only know about the 3 from the Narc detector. There were others who became obsessed.
    What do these freaks want with me.
    Anyway, it is no joke that I must listen to you and stay away from narcissists. They destroy your life and even kill you.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      What do they want? The Prime Aims.

  2. LG says:

    Can anyone tell me please? So do narcissists need validation and unconditional love? is that what the look for?
    I just recalled one time when I was eating a pastry he bought and I mentioned that this particular one was my favourite. He then said “I thought I was your favourite”.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Read The Prime Aims.
      Your comment rec the pastry was Challenge Fuel

      1. LG says:

        HG – Yes, that article and the fuel I understand but do they need validation and unconditional love from others?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You don’t understand if you’re asking that question. Keep reading.

  3. LG says:

    Renarde – why does his dancing around the word “Love” stand out for you? What do you mean?

    Is that because he told me that he was hesitant to use the “L” word but that liking me wasn’t enough? or is it because he said once “what is love anyway?”

    I just would like to understand why that is a black flag.

  4. LG says:

    Getting There – yes, he did leave his wife years back. I don’t know the full story but he moved in with a woman he was working with in a different city for 2 months. Then he returned home to his wife but he told me at this time he only went back because of the children (3 children). But he also mentioned that the woman he moved in with wanted a family and he couldn’t give her that so it was better to let her have that with someone else because he couldn’t give her that. I thought that is something you would think about before moving in, wouldn’t you? I don’t know why but I get the feeling that he does everything the other way around. With this woman first he moves in and then he says he can’t give her a family. With me, he spends 3 months telling me serious stuff that he wants something serious, be a couple, etc….to then say he is not leaving his family when it should have been the other way around too.

    Now, he spent 1 year telling me that he is not leaving his family and now he meets someone very recently and he does leave his family telling me “things changed” and that meeting her is what made him realise he wants to leave his wife. But I am the one listening to all this!!!! when I am the one to whom he told also that with me it was serious, that he did not want an affair, etc……. He goes home on a weekday at 11 PM and tells his wife about new woman and the very next day he goes to meet the new woman. He says it has turned out to be serious but they have just met. He also told me how his wife was shocked and that the new woman is married with kids and leaves in a different city, telling me how they will see each other when they can or whenever there is a chance and see how things go but he wastes no time and moves out of his family home.

    Two days before he told me that he was not leaving his family he had said that I was a replacement to his current relationship (his marriage). The word “replacement” sounded so bad!!! but 2 days later he visited me and he said he was really happy to see me and he was really nice and after a little while he said he was not leaving his family. At that time we lived 300 kms away from each other and his explanation was “I realised I can’t leave my wife after seeing how difficult it is to come here to visit you”…..I am still speechless at this explanation. I kept thinking that the problem was the distance and then I thought “ok, so if I lived 20 minutes away from you then, what? everything would be fine?”. I mean, which kind of explanation is this??? He proposed to be friends and I sent him to hell but the next day I asked him if we could talk to at least discuss things. When we talked he was like “I really like you, I am so glad we are talking again, please believe me, staying with my family has nothing to do with you, I really like you a lot”. So the story continued and it lasted one more year……

  5. Presque Vu says:

    LG, this is the biggest lesson I’ve seen on emotional thinking here on the blog.

    Your emotional thinking is fucking off the scale. I relate. It’s crazy to understand.

    Everyone including NA has stepped up.. offered advice and HG has consulted with you.

    He is the expert.

    A best friend would offer advice only so many times before it becomes same old story…

    That’s a best friend and they have your back!

    If you were my best friend, I would offer advice, discuss it to death, cry with you but also get mad at you !!

    YOU are the beginning and end of this. YOU.

    Take your motherfucking strength back!!
    No man dictates what the fuck you do, sleep, fuck, work or your worth.

    My god, I want to grab your power, your inner power and show you it.. look at it… look at you!!!

    Get angry!! Get fucking livid, get mad, get fucking psycho!! Smash things up, listen to loud aggressive music.. dance, scream…

    And then get yourself together and forget this mother fucking asshole!!

    1. K says:

      Presque Vu
      Everybody needs people like you and NarcAngel in their life. Sometimes people need a good kick-in-the-ass! (metaphorically speaking of course)

  6. LG says:

    Not sure why but my post are awaiting approval since 5 hours ago

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It’s called moderation

      1. Sweetest Perfection says:

        Right. Or having a ride with my best friend. Lol.

      2. LG says:

        HG – I posted yesterday evening and none of them have been approved. So in moderation – are they not being approved then?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          They are in moderation, I do have other things to do than moderate comments all of the time, LG!

    2. NarcAngel says:

      Seriously LG? There are many people here besides yourself and we all wait for our comments to be moderated. 100s a day. HG isn’t sitting around all day avoiding all of the others and waiting eagerly to moderate another of your posts rehashing what your narc said, followed by endless questions about what he meant. Get a grip. Yes, you have the right to talk it out endlessly as you previously stated, but exercise some basic etiquette and respect for the others here as well. You have certainly had your fair share moderated and had responses also. Your emotional thinking is out of control because I’d like to believe you do not act this entitled normally.

      1. LG says:

        I don’t know how this works and since normally posts are being posted straight away I was just asking. Somehow I feel some people are being quite nasty.

        1. K says:

          People aren’t nasty, just truthful. It’s called insight, empathy and appreciation and you should try it out. NarcAngel, Lou, HG and many others have made some great points.

          The Readers are very patient but your ET is off the charts so you should try taking a step back, remove the emotion and look at your behaviour with logic. Have empathy for HG and the readers and modify your behaviour.

      2. LG says:

        Besides, you don’t need to talk to me or reply or even read what I write. I was replying to someone new who commented on something I said. It is HG I asked about the moderation since I don’t know how it works. You are very quick to jump in in something that is not between you and me.

        1. Kiki says:

          I second this I know it’s an old post but still.
          Remember posters here are replying on their own goodwill.
          We are NOT private paid therapists and what I notice is it’s all me me me , very little thanks to posters who took their time to advise .
          If people spend time to provide lengthy answers to your questions it’s only polite to mutter a thank you and maybe ask how the other poster is doing .
          It is selfish not too and this blog doesn’t revolve around your situation or anyone else’s for that matter
          I’ve seen this a bit here and reeks of generation Snowflakes sense of entitlement

          Now I’ve said it


          1. LG says:

            I have stopped posting here. People like you are the reason why.
            You are completely wrong but I won’t even bother given the reasons.

          2. K says:

            Christ, what is it with people playing the victim card. When you try to get them to look at their behaviour, they either ignore you or cut and run, rather than deal with it, and then they try to get others to side with them so they can trash you.

            It’s all about them and their lame excuses for not taking responsibility for their infantile behaviour.

      3. LG says:

        Please, do not write to me any more. Just ignore what i write. It is not for you.

        1. NarcAngel says:

          Gladly. I have ignored most of your repetitive while dismissive of others advice to stop trying to interpret what he said posts, but feeling they should be moderated immediately is beyond entitlement. How many times and ways can someone tell you that narcs lie so it doesn’t matter what they say, only to have you repeat the same question? Wanting your job back with someone who has caused you to lose your mind is lunacy. I think you are shopping around for an explanation and a reason to be involved with him again. There. Someone had to say it.

          1. LG says:

            NARCANGEL – You have no idea about my life. I do not want the “relationship” back at all despite still being at a stage where there are days when I miss him. ALL I wanted is my job back. But apart from all this, I will say it too – I don’t want to interact with you any more. You don’t give me good vibes and I please ask you to refrain from answering me. If you don’t like what I post and what I say ignore it.

          2. Twilight says:


            Your ET is tricking you into desiring this position to stay connected to him while blinding you to the fact you can find another position elsewhere.
            Before you say it isn’t, it is. It will do anything to keep you tied to that which you are addicted to using anything variation of lie to convince you this is what you need.

          3. Getting There says:

            NA, in your opinion is it the same level of “lunacy” that some may assume when we want the narcissist to contact us after disengagement; the narcissist to take us back; the narcissist to return to the Golden Period when being “treated” with devaluation? Or is it a different level in that a job may be a necessity and there is that additional issue?

          4. LG says:

            GETTING THERE – Thank you for your validation. And even if it was wanting him back and missing him, I believe that is part of the process when you are grieving. Going back and forth between hate, anger, missing him, talk to him, clarify things……etc…it is all part of the process.

            But as you very well said, there is another side which is critical for me here and that is the job! I have not job here and the situation is very difficult. I felt he saved my life when he offered me that job so I don’t only look at him as a “partner” but as someone who offered me what I most needed, i.e. a job. Dealing with these two things is being hell for me but mostly the work part.

          5. NarcAngel says:

            Getting There
            A job is necessary yes, but Is there really anyone here who thinks it’s a good idea for her to walk into the mouth of the lion by wanting to return to THAT job? Come on. And does every response have to be delivered with a 50 pound sack of sugar? There have been plenty of comforting and understanding responses. Reams of them and all met with the same response. Enough I think to survive a small swig of bitter truth. There can be danger in too much tolerance. It allows people to think that what they are doing is understood and normal by the majority, and while it may be the case that many have experienced what she is now, is there anyone who wouldn’t identify it now as lunacy at the time? I know she is not there yet, but entertaining ideas of going back to work there and considering falling victim (emotionally and financially) to psychics is not a direction to be taking. It is lunacy. Sometimes people need to be shaken with a logic bomb. If it were your daughter would you see this in the same light and be exhibiting all of this patience and understanding while she looks past you and says: next! In order to elicit the response she wants to hear? I doubt it. She has a narcissist telling her (albeit in the nicest possible way) that she is perpetuating her own misery by continuing to focus on him, and she has the word and support here of many who are telling her that they have felt what she does and offering advice. So far none of it has penetrated. So I tried another route and gave it straight. My mistake for giving a shit and not wanting to watch her go down in flames going back to that job, him, or losing money she says she doesn’t have to psychics before she wakes up, and for making any offering at all. It’s all being covered and I’ll gladly stay out.

          6. LG says:

            How would I go down in flames if I went back to that job, which by the way won’t happen?

          7. nunya biz says:

            NA, I agree that it is lunacy and we are responsible for our own role and behavior. That includes learning and appropriate reactions to others behavior (including HGs moderation choices), managing our emotional responses to others, knowing our part in crossing boundaries (as PSE took on discussing the pursuit of explanations or closure, we may desire but are not “owed” unfortunately), and taking charge of disengaging with an abuser.

            Please take this with love, LG, just wanted to reiterate it is part of the learning process and very much in your best interest. It was a hard road for me to get past the most difficult parts, but well worth it. Some self inventory is an important piece. Please keep posting with an open mind.
            Only sycophantic responses isn’t the best place to be either. XO, I’m at work, be back later.

          8. Getting There says:

            Thank you for your response and sharing your thoughts. You don’t need me to say it but I agree with you that she should not go back to that job. There are many reasons she should stay far away from it and hopefully she recognizes that. I don’t doubt that you care and want to help. I personally would prefer someone to be with me like you are with others, most of the time. Yet, when I have done that with some others they get hurt or they are so lost in their feelings that it doesn’t matter. If she were my daughter, my sister, a friend, I would still be like this and have actually been for many. Why? Because of what I perceive on what they can handle and what they can’t at that moment (and I have been wrong). I perceive LG as drowning and reaching for anything. Yes, I agree she is hoping it is the life raft from USS Narc but that would be the worst situation for her. She is feeling alone and this blog may be the only place hearing about this relationship. I know family/ friends, my therapist and HG have dealt with me rehashing things over and over. It isn’t the best approach in moving forward but sometimes it is what I feel I need to do at the time. If she doesn’t have that support system in her personal life, then I would like to think we can be that here.
            My question was in regards to the “lunacy” as many of us have rationalized returning to the narcissist and many of us have done things against our best interests to keep what is not good for us. I don’t know what it is like to have my job dependent on the narcissist I was involved with so this is a different dynamic than my own experience and wouldn’t know where the pain of the relationship ends and the concern for a job starts.
            I do hope that LG gets to the point where she is no longer just grasping for any way to make it all better, and then hopefully she will be able to take the logic bomb.

          9. Getting There says:

            As if my response wasn’t long enough before, I am going to add to it here. I wanted to give a personal example. This week I was given a choice that will have impact on my life. I can’t decide what to do and think that the only person who can help me is my last narcissist. The one with whom I have had no contact with for months. I don’t contact him and a decision has yet to be made. Now, based on my circumstances and where I am in my understanding of him, our situation, myself, etc. I could say to myself “that’s lunacy.” What I wonder, though, is what if I am fresh from the pain and my basic needs were only met because of him. Does that change the level?
            Now, with that said, regardless of the past basic needs being met by him, my stance stays that no one should rely on a person who lies for fun/instinct; and no one should return to a job who was in LG’s situation; or even a situation where there was no romance and the boss pulled that crap.

          10. NarcAngel says:

            Getting There
            You CAN decide what to do and your last narcissist is not the only one who can help you. Do you know why I say that? Because if he died suddenly tonight that decision would still have to be made and it will be. Your emotions are trying to con you into thinking you need his counsel. It impacts your life so should and will be made by you. Period.

            Feel free to ignore that. The decision is yours.

          11. FYC says:

            LG, NA has seen many such comments over the years of people expecting immediate service. Her tone reflects this. If you were unaware of how moderation works, why did you not search moderation? It appears in the blog rules–a good idea to read.

            It is miraculous that HG reads ALL comments before publishing. He has an important career outside of the blog and a personal life. I don’t know how he does it all. His minor delays are just that–minor. Perhaps you now see why your query appeared unreasonable and received a frustrated response?

            NA is one of the wisest people on the blog. She is actually doing you a great service (even if very pointed in style). Speaking the truth without the soothing parts is like a cold splash of water to wake you from your addictive trance. NA really does understand. We all do.

            You paid for a consult with the top world expert on narcissism and yet fail to follow his advice. Why? Why do you want to go back to work where the narcissist works? You are free, yet you wish to return. That is not the only job on the planet and you know this. You are lying to yourself and have been for quite some time. To go back would absolutely ensure you will suffer greatly–beyond anything your current mindset would consider.I am speaking the obvious truth–no need to give examples..

            LG, We want you to succeed. At some point you must emerge from the denial and bargaining and angry phases to reach resolution. It is a choice. Stop perpetuating what caused you the pain to begin with. Stop thinking about him. He is not worth another thought. You are worth a far better life and a different job. Resolution will find you as you work on a new life far away from the narcissist.

          12. LG says:

            FYC – how would I suffer greatly if I went back to that job if the personal side was non existing any more? If it was only a job how would I suffer?

            In fact, that is what I should have done when I took the job. I shouldn’t have allowed myself to get involved personally when I decided to take the job and he shouldn’t have done it either. Once I was leaving, of course it was easy and convenient for him to say “I didn’t promise you a relationship”. No he didn’t but then he should have been clear and should have not got involved with me in any shape or form.

          13. Getting There says:

            Thank you, NA! I appreciate that! I didn’t mean to make this about me but wanted to use my situation as an example, but that was very of you!
            You are correct. It is my emotions. He was the type who knew me so well in different ways; he could even read my body language; and could challenge me and wouldn’t let me BS myself. That would be helpful right now. But this is my life and I need to make the decision.

            I wouldn’t and won’t ignore it. I am going to read your comment when I start thinking I need his help when I am trying to decide.

          14. FYC says:

            LG, Your denial is seriously blinding you. I mean this not in a cruel way, but to let you know the truth. I am assuming you are young or inexperienced. In case life has not taught you the following lessons I will give you the highlights:

            1) ANY work environment is a social (and political) environment. One cannot divorce the work from the personal, they reside in the same brain. Therefore, if you work with anyone you date (not recommended and rarely ends well), you will be affected in many ways by thoughts or actions of that person and all the people they influence and you influence (think soap opera/novela). This is true of all people.

            2) When you work with a narcissist that you are or have been ensnared by, you will ALWAYS remain a target for fuel, either positive or negative. Currently, he would likely go out of his way to cause you difficulties for negative fuel (lies regarding performance, smears on your character, sabotage your work and professional relationships–the possibilities are endless and may even include physical violence). Aside of this, there will be countless emotional triggers that affect all of your senses and thoughts that thwart your healing progress. You will remain entangled. If you were to go back to that job, your narc would see this as a challenge to make good on his threats one way or the other. Now do you see why it would be lunacy to return? It is not about your intent (which you may or may not be clear on–I’m voting you are not), it is about HIS intent. Stay away. Start over!

            3. In reality, there are no “shoulds”. You were probably raised (as I was) with many shoulds, but there are no relational laws, only civil laws. There is not grand arbiter of appropriate human of human thoughts and motivations. People make choices. People act and react. People may consider you in their choices or not. MANY are selfish and do not share your values. It is your responsibility to protect yourself and make good choices that support of YOUR values. You can never expect another to adopt your values, you can only accept or reject another based upon their choices. Choose people who support you.

            Bottom line: LG, you fell for wanting to believe the lies this narcissist told you and now that you know they are lies, you want to collect or get justice. You will get neither as long as you live. You cannot undo what is done. The only thing you can do is learn from it and move on. Period.

            Think of it this way. If a person is sweet talked into investing their entire savings on a get rich quick scheme and the person who takes their money spends it, the investor would be devastated due to the betrayal of their (misplaced) trust and would want justice. Correct? The majority of people that fall prey to such schemes were flattered and given a false sense of security. Sound familiar? Once the crime has been committed, the spent funds cannot be retrieved and in most cases the criminal is not found. Even if they are found, how does this right the original wrong? It cannot. Ever. The only thing the victim can do is write it off as an expensive lesson learned and make damn sure they are never so naive or susceptible again.

            Stop thinking about your past (including narcissist and job) now and forever more. Instead think about your future and how you can build a life you love. Stop expecting others to take care of you or do the right thing. Instead, seize the power. Take immediate responsibility for yourself. Make your own right choices.You have it in you. Go to it!

        2. Presque Vu says:


          I hear you.

          You want to be heard. Nobody is listening, you need to be understood. You are in pain, such turmoil. You are a truth seeker. Why are people not fucking listening.

          I’ve been there. I was drowning because I so desperately wanted fairness, I wanted to be heard. A fair trial. I WANT A FUCKING FAIR TRIAL!!

          I was mad, livid, I see it in you. You can’t hear what they are saying or even digest their words. Music made me stop, just for a while, I listened to lyrics. Maybe it might work for you?

          I feel you want justice. To be heard.
          Listen to this. Really listen.

          We are listening. At this moment in time your addiction is life threatening but you can’t see it. I understand you. I have been where you are now.

          Please keep talking. We are not against you. This is a safe place.

      4. Kim e says:

        NA. Still making friends I see. Miss your charming wit. Hope everything else good in your world. Hope this makes it thru moderation quickly…
        Smooches 😚 😚😚

        1. NarcAngel says:

          Hi Kim
          Haha. Love me, hate me, Imma be me. I’ve been following your chats with Caroline and I said hello on another thread. Keep up the good work staying no contact. I’m cheering for you. Enjoy your rum and cokes but remember drinking and texting is a huge no no. Hear HG booming: HG does NOT approve! In fact purchase his wallpaper for your phone. Is there a ring-tone? I have to look again. Take care.

          1. Bibi says:

            Yes stay away from drunk texting! No narcs! If you are drunk, come on this blog instead so we can chuckle at your drunkenness as I have done many times (been drunk).

            HG has the patience as that of a monk in prayer as he is being bit by mosquitoes and scorpions. He wades through all our comments–something that would drive me bananas.

            I wish I could comment more–just life gets in the way, busy job, etc. I agree with what Presque Vu said. This is a supportive place. I go nowhere else to share such woes. Many would be surprised I even have them, as I keep them hidden.

            But if you need to drunk text? Hell yea. Send ’em here. HG should erect a wall for drunk comments (albeit chances that when drunk we’d forget where to post).

            I think wine should be ranked as narcissists: Lesser, Mid-Range, and Greater. Drinking a Mid Range Merlot atm, but only a few sips thus far. Available at my local grocery store. Solid, but nothing too fancy.

          2. MB says:

            Bibi, Merlot is my fave! Cheers to you.

          3. MB says:

            Ooooohhhhj, a ring tone! What a brilliant idea NA. HG, take my money!

          4. HG Tudor says:

            Ha ha.

          5. NarcAngel says:

            I know right? I’m sure the minions are on the ringtone as we speak.

            Seize the power!
            Fucking A!
            HG forbids it!

            But I think the biggest seller would be:

            Of course it’s a hoover for fuck sake!

          6. MommyPino says:

            “Of course it’s a hoover for fuck sake!”


          7. NarcAngel says:

            The ringtone: Of course it’s a hoover for fuck sakes! is from HG himself on his Instagram for anyone who did not know what I was referring to.

          8. MommyPino says:

            Thank you NA, I didn’t know indeed. But I agree that it will definitely be a best seller with HG’s voice it will be really awesome! 😊

          9. K says:

            Ha ha ha…your last sentence says it all!

  7. LG says:

    Getting There – Thank you for your reply and I really appreciate it. I am not sure if you read my story here or where. The story is under this link (written on the 12th of June).

    Yes, years back he left his wife and moved in with someone for 2 months. Then he returned home. He told me it was because of the children that he went back but also he mentioned that he couldn’t give the new girl a family and that it wasn’t fair or something like that. I thought this is something you would think about before moving in and not afterwards.

    You also mention that he wasn’t planning to let me go and that is why he offered me friendship?? how? how is that not letting me go? I went from him wanting a serious relationship to affair to friendship now.

    I couldn’t take it. First I moved to his country for a job in March 2018. At that time he was living 300 kms away from me and that is the time he made me believe he wanted to be with me. Then he said he wasn’t leaving his family. I was involved with him until November and then I left the country. He told me he was sure we would meet again when I left and I didn’t have a clue how. When I was back for only 3 weeks he offered me the job (and I didn’t have one at the time) and I went back to his country and this time to his city and to work with him. We were still involved and he looked so happy to have me there. I even had to come back home for 1 week to pick up stuff and he told me “please come back”. He told me it was better to have me there than back in my country and he was nice with me. Then in March he tells me it is better to just be friends, that this was unhealthy. He told me he had to think due to a family crisis at home with his son. I kept insisting because I thought there was someone else. He even told me “how can you say this when I am telling you I have a family problem?”. He had been with me on a Monday and 4 days later he was travelling to meet the new one. That same morning he told me not to worry because he hadn’t told me no yet and hadn’t decided about us. I was hopeful. Then a week later after I insisted again whether there was someone he told me “I can’t believe you have managed to know this before my wife did. Yes, I met someone very recently and it turned out to be serious. Once I knew it was mutual I stopped seeing you”. I asked him if he saw us both at the same time and he said “but at different levels”. He told me we could be only friends, that he could not be my partner or lover. He told me we could spend time and go for dinner and similar as friends. I was broken!!! He told his wife about the new woman and moved out. He had made me believe at the very start he wanted something serious with me and only in November he had told me that if he wasn’t committed he would grab a hold of me and don’t let go because I am a keeper.

    First he lied to me when he made me believe he wanted to be with me to then say he was staying at home. I believed him he was staying at home with his family because he told me this had nothing to do with me. Months later after being involved with him he tells me he is leaving his wife when he never did for me and this for someone he just had met so I couldn’t take it. I was so broken I couldn’t face him at work. Under all these emotions I told him I was resigning. He asked me to think about it, to not rush because I had no job back at home. I couldn’t do it so I said I was leaving. I gave a month’s notice and at the beginning of that month he did what I explained in my post in the office to me, humiliating me.

    Recently I tried to contact him because I want my job back. I miss it and realise it was a mistake to leave it. I had already sent him some emails calling him sociopath and what not and in one of them I called him nazi for what he did to me in the office. He replied and told me “don’t dare call me again or I will nail your dirty hide on the wall”. He told me I am nuts, a nutcase and some hurtful things.

    1. Getting There says:

      Hello, LG.

      You are struggling to gain understanding. The problem is there can’t be understanding. When someone lies and manipulates just to meet their wants, nothing will make sense to a person who wouldn’t do that. You know he lied to you; you said that yourself. So many of the things you think you know may not even be the truth, and I understand wanting to know what was the truth and what wasn’t. There is no way to know and he will never be able to tell you, himself. You said he wanted a serious relationship. In the same vain, I can look at it and say he didn’t but wanted to tell you what you wanted to hear. You would have left him and he didn’t want that, not because he wanted you for you forever. He wanted you as his side piece give him what he wants when he wants. If you believed there was a future and held on to the hope, you would stay and continue to give.
      As a friend, you will still be there. He would have been a part of your life where you wouldn’t be able to move on. Then, when things change in his primary source situation, you will be there waiting and willing. You are the paused TV show. This time you turned yourself off, which is great! Why not continue with you while with her? He doesn’t need you that way right now. Think of it like he has a cup of water. His wife filled part of it up, you filled part of it up, and I bet there were others who helped fill up the rest. He has found a source who is acting like a hose and there is no room for your water. That doesn’t mean he would undo your faucet; he will just keep it clean in case the hose springs a leak or loses pressure. As for just recently meeting, you can’t trust that.
      Going back to that job will not be helpful and not only because of you having a front row seat to his personal life. He has caused a scene with you and smeared you; the environment with the others there won’t be the same. It will be a bad work environment. It is time to find another job, even if you have to go to your home country.

  8. Renarde says:

    I am minded with all this talk of psychics and what-nots to examine a woman I once knew. I suspect, very strongly, that she is an Upper Middle, possibly Elite.

    This woman was pivotal at one point in my life as a spiritual teacher. New age m’larky. What she has achieved is nothing short of phenomenal. Known internationally in her field, she has amassed a great deal of money through her ‘teachings’ and events.

    Except; she says one thing and does another. Gossip et al. A lot of people where completely unaware that her main event was a for profit one and NOT a charitable one. Also, the ceremonies she was holding where bad. I mean really bad. Lot’s of negative shit. People were being triggered, massively. A lot of people, largely woman, who try to embrace the Goddess, do so because some part of themselves need healing. Talk about a narcs paradise! All those succulent and juicy Empies kicking around the place!

    I and a small band of others broke away and formed a group with the sole purpose to bringing her and the organisation into account. People were being seriously hurt as trauma was re-inflicted in the ceremonies and also private circles. One instance that I was made aware of was of a VERY serious crime committed by one of her Lieutenants on a traumatised woman who had been sexually abused. This act was committed in front of at least a dozen witnesses.

    It’s not on and it’s fucking not right.

    I am pleased to note that her latest book makes her look like a deluded fool. In one part she explains her actions in ripping a strip of a person who had changed the music without permission as OK because ‘he had hurt her in a past life’. Does she really expect people to swallow this shit? Oh yes….

    She’s now an aging narc and tbh, it’s not a great look.

    She picked on me in circles. Not all the time but she would send out a malicious hoover in my direction every now and again. Usually it revolved around my voice which I now perceive she hated. No idea why. I’m guessing that she was attempting to bring me under control. Yeah, it didn’t work. After a particularly distressing ceremony when I was holding the ‘wheel’ in the element of fire, I had a complete psychic burn out and left the whole shebang.

    So the…


    There are genuine people out there. I know them. It pales into insignificance compared to the narcs that operate the show. I believe that is true of whatever spiritual or religious organisation you care to mention.

    HG – I am, as I said, tending to be of a mind that she is a Middle but could she be a Greater? She has a curious asexuality to her which I find in the female Greaters I have observed and she certainly has created success.

    Could a Greater lose their marbles as they age? Her latest book is an almost incoherent ramble compared to her earlier ones.

  9. LG says:

    Does anyone know if an article about exposure post discard has been published yet? I read one about exposure in the devalue stage saying one would follow for the post discard but haven’t seen it.

    Now after consulting with HG it looks like this guy is upper mid range somatic 🙁
    Not sure if anyone could forward any articles related to this kind

    I can’t believe this is happening 🙁

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Not looks like, he is.

      1. LG says:

        HG Tudor, yes, sorry, it was a way of expressing myself. Yes, he is. I think I have problems accepting it so probably using the “it looks like” makes it easier for me. I just can’t believe this is for real

        1. HG Tudor says:


          1. Desirée says:

            While we’re on the subject, is Prince William a narc, or is he just prideful but with good intentions? I am asking because we’ve established that Harry is an Empath, Prince Charles is a narc, and Kate seems empathic but I am not sure about her.

        2. Renarde says:

          Well done LG. Even acknowledging that you find it all a head fuck is good. It’s progress.

        3. Sweetest Perfection says:

          LG, my narc told me the exact same words when I asked him why he liked me: you are attractive, intelligent, and vulnerable. I suspect he is also an UMRN somatic but need to take the narc detector. Don’t feel bad for not seeing the red flags; no one here did either.

          1. LG says:

            Sweetest Perfection – the exact same words??? I posted here a long post with some of the comments he made such as keeping me in a basement and many other things…..sure you will find it if you search….just curiosity if those match too.

            And this UMRN somatic type – are they dangerous? Sorry, I am completely overwhelmed with all the terminology as if I am not overwhelmed enough with what he did. I posted my story in the following article as I felt identified with it:

          2. Sweetest Perfection says:

            LG, all narcissists are eventually dangerous for your health and self-esteem in one way or the other. I don’t think he’s gonna literally kidnap you and keep you in his basement, mine used to tell me he would love to lock me in a room for days and make love to me. If he’s UMRN somatic he probably has quite an extensive network of supply so, even if he is with one person in particular to your eyes, there are many more hiding with whom he has casual sex or just sexting online; mine does that despite being married. I’m sure HG has told you more things in detail, he’s the person to
            ask, not me. But your story called my attention because like in my case, the guy seems to have a clearer understanding of how he functions. Mine “warned” me that he doesn’t do boundaries and he exhibited the same kind of behavior yours did with regards to dropping a few pieces of information that would have been enough to be considered huge red flags had I known what I was dealing with. Mine also tried to convince me to leave my job and join his. When I asked him why, expecting a romantic response, he just said: “it would be so much fun, we would have happy hours all the time.” LG, I assume from your confusion that you have just recently found out what happened to you. I can tell from my experience that you are probably hurt by the fact he has another supply that is not you. You will very likely hope and wish for a hoover, and it will happen, but it may not be necessarily a fabulous one, in my case it consisted of a lot of stalking, of anonymous calls or calls from strange numbers, and posting indirect comments and pictures online. Then he will talk shit about you behind your back as is my case… do yourself a favor and block the motherfucker, it’s the only way to allow yourself some dignity, to avoid enduring all of this drama, and to crush his soul when he realizes he can’t control you. I couldn’t believe he was not the person I always believed he was, that’s the biggest shock that still plays games with my mind, but shit happens. At least you have the option to get away from it, he doesn’t.

          3. LG says:

            SWEETEST PERFECTION – He told me after talking for 5 days and not having met in person that he was falling for me and that he was about to fall in love with me. The first time we met he told me he loved me (that was the only time).

            Yes, I am very hurt that for a full year he made me believe that he was going to stay with his family and that this was not going to change, that he had a history with his wife (25 years) and that he felt love and respect for her. 10 years ago he left her and moved in with a woman for 2 months and then he returned home. The first 3 months he made me believe he wanted a serious relationship with me, to be a couple, live together, etc….2 days before visiting me he had told me I was a replacement to his current relationship (marriage) and 2 days later he visits me and tells me he is not leaving his family. He assured me this had nothing to do with me and we continued talking for months (we lived in different cities). He met me about 6 times in 8 months. In December I left his country and thought it would be over but when I was at home after 3 weeks he offered me the job and I took it and went back to his country. For 3 months we met from time to time and still with his family. Then he comes one day and tells me he has met someone very recently and that it is serious. Even the day he was travelling to see her (4 days after being intimate with me) he told me not to worry because he hadn’t made a decision about us yet (he had told me he had to decide about us), not to worry. Then when he saw things with the new one worked he told me we could only be friends. I asked if he had seen us both at the same time and he said “but at different levels”. Then he told his wife immediately that he was moving out because of this new woman and he offered me to be friends. I left the job because of this and I suppose you read the story…

            The new woman is married and with kids he told me and lives in a different city. I wonder if he only treated me like shit because I was an affair only and he treats the new woman or the wife good because they are the primary women.

            Of course, I am very hurt that he told me that he had just met someone so recently and left everything for her when he had made me believe at the start he was doing that for me to then say he wasn’t leaving his family and that would stay like that to then see that wasn’t true if he left his wife for this new person after only a few days. So first he lied to me making me believe he wanted something serious. Then he lied to me making me believe he wouldn’t leave his wife. And to top it up only in November he told me that if he wasn’t committed he would grab a hold of me and don’t let go because I am a keeper. Then months later he goes off with this new one.

            Last year I really suspected he was talking to someone because he was always online on messenger and whatsapp. I kept asking for months and in October he told me we wouldn’t meet or talk again because he was sick of my questions. Then he hung up on me and that was it. I blocked him and then he blocked me and I received an email telling me “are you angry I blocked you first before you could do it?”. I was the one who blocked him first!!! Thing is that we started to talk again after 2 weeks…..

          4. Sweetest Perfection says:

            “I wonder if he only treated me like shit because I was an affair only and he treats the new woman or the wife good because they are the primary women.” Nope. If anything, he is treating or will treat them even worse, because being IPPS is being their constant punching bag. He wants you “on reserve” like mine wanted “to retain a relationship” with me without leaving his punching bag or the other lovers. What all of that means is “I’m not done with you, you give me good supply but this other woman gives me better supply” (meaning she’s more gullible/complacent/doesn’t ask too many questions/ has something I could take advantage of. Nothing to do with loving her more). So he wants to keep you there for when he’s bored, which he will be. Then he will get bored of you again etc etc etc. I recently read Chained, which I never bought because I knew I’m not Co-dependent, but this weekend I had the realization that my narc’s wife MUST be aware of his infidelities and he definitely forces her to accept questionable behavior… after reading it, I’m completely sure she is a co-d. I know he will never leave her because no one but a Co-D would put up with his BS for so long. Maybe that other woman and his wife are the same way?

          5. LG says:

            SWEETEST PERFECTION – you say that what all that means is that he is not done with me but he is done with me. He blocked me everywhere in April. He refused to talk to me a couple of weeks back when I called him. Even after calling him he sent that message telling me that if I dare call him again he will nail my hide on the wall, and so on… is he not done with me?

          6. Sweetest Perfection says:

            If he is a narc, which HG confirmed, he is not done with you. But you shouldn’t be looking for that answer and instead, take advantage of the break to go NC. There’s nothing normal in this man, don’t you see? HG has an article that talks about the vicious dynamic of going back and forth between the ex and the lover. Also, I recommend you read the book Why? Because it clarified many questions you are struggling with now. LG, trust HG and everyone here: go NC now that you have that golden opportunity!

          7. LG says:

            Sweetest Perfection – you say he keeps me in reserve but he told his wife he is moving out and told me that we could only be friends because of the new woman. To me that is showing the new woman he is loyal and honest to her. He could have stayed with his wife and do with the new one what he did with me, i.e. use her as an affair but to go all the lengths to leave his marriage, that shows he is really interested plus throwing me in the bin too.

            I really thought – a woman he meets so very recently and he says that it turned out to be serious….how can it be serious with someone you don’t even know? I told him how he had told me he was not leaving his marriage. He said “now things changed”. I also told him how it can be serious with someone you just met? He said “I believe in this type of things”

    2. Renarde says:

      Hey there LG! An UM Som – you poor thing. Bet the sex was wicked though!

      K is the go-to person for articles and I’m not sure I’ve ever seen on on precisely that subject post discard.

      I am sure though that it is covered in the book ‘Revenge’.

      Could I very gently suggest that if discard was recent, say under a year or so, your head might not be in precisely the right place to do what you are suggesting as you will still be mired.

      I’m with you on exposure though. I have myriad schemes in my head but when it comes down to it, can’t be arsed.

      How are you?

      1. K says:

        Thankfully, Lou has this covered!

        1. Lou says:

          Thanks K. I am not sure LG will use those links though. Maybe you can propose other articles.

          1. LG says:

            LOU – I have read endless articles and actually I feel so overwhelmed and on overload that I do not want to continue reading. I feel I will go crazy if I keep reading and reading and reading. Sometimes, hearing someone giving you a piece of advice or sharing their knowledge helps much more. Reading articles for hours on end on your own does not help me now and I even feel that every time I ask or reply to someone I am being told – Go no contact. Everyone processes things differently, everyone is different and it is ok to take as much time as you need to process things. If going no contact means stopping talking about it right here and now, I am not ready to do that yet and I think I am allowed to do that.

          2. Sweetest Perfection says:

            LG, I apologize if I contributed to making you feel that way. I actually was thinking about what I replied to you the other day and wondered if you would interpret it as “stop talking about it.” I didn’t mean that at all; in fact, I have told and retold my entanglement (which was actually short, I don’t even know how I can stretch it so much) a hundred times here. Everybody has a right to speak about their experience with narcissism and that is how we help each other. I went through a slow process too, and I want to believe most of us here suffered the same: denial and disbelief, then keeping a little hope that we were exaggerating and the person was not a narcissist, then horror when putting things together and realizing the truth, then anger, then sadness, then cognitive dissonance again, and of course, the fear. Fear of cutting all ties, of leaving behind your good memories, fear that if you block him he will be vindictive, etc etc. I think I was too fast in mentioning the solution, but believe me, there’s no other solution. You need your time to process everything. The reason why everyone is directing you to articles and books is because your questions are all answered in them. For every single question I had about my narc, HG has already written an article. But we are all here to help each other and learn from others’ experiences, so please don’t feel censored. Keep in mind, though, that you seem to be now in the foggy state of disbelief and hope he will return (I went through it too of course), and the people that have gone through that already will let you know that it’s not conducive to anything healthy or any solution. In my case, I didn’t block him immediately. But I watched. In silence. I saw how he interacted on social media after I stopped talking to him. And I didn’t need any other proof, he swapped me for another interest in the blink of an eye and started commenting on her page, it was a copy and paste of everything he used to say to me. You have a clear evidence, he is confusing and confused. He has been going between you and his ex on and off and now he’s suddenly in love with another woman??? Even if he were not a narc, the situation in itself is toxic and you know deep down that you need to leave, before he comes back saying he made a terrible mistake and you were “the one.”

          3. Lou says:

            Hi LG. I am glad to learn you are reading. You are right; everyone processes things differently and at their own pace. I understand you still feel overwhelmed and that you still need to talk/write about it.
            Do you journal? That may help. Just sit down and write anything that is keeping your mind busy. I recommend you focus on yourself and your emotions. Write about how you are feeling; maybe about the rage or the humiliation or any other emotion you are having. This may help you process your emotions and see things more clearly.
            Do you practice some kind of sport? That may help a lot too. Endorphins help us feel better. I highly recommend you do some physical activity.
            Do you have friends? Go out with them.
            All this may help break the vicious emotional cycle you are in at the moment. It is not about ignoring your emotions; it is about taking some distance from them.

          4. LG says:

            Lou – All I can say is that I have never felt this bad before. I do believe in my case it is the fact I lost him and the fact I lost my job because of him. I feel I was too weak if I couldn’t keep my emotions under control and I should have been strong enough to separate the job and the personal side. That way I wouldn’t have lost so much. He had been telling me that I wanted more and that the way I reacted confirmed his theory. But hello!! what did he think I was there for? I mean with him? to joke? to play? it was clear I had feelings from day 1 and this was over a year afterwards. It is like he was surprised I had feelings and they were interfering with my job. He even told me “can you just stop being emotional? “. Even at the start after he made me believe that he wanted something serous to then tell me he was not leaving his family, it was only two weeks after that and he told me I should be over it because it was already 2 weeks. But what does he think??? that I can switch on and off and now I feel and now I don’t?

            So I think I should have managed my emotions. If I had been able to do that I could have kept my job.

            And what is worse and I am even scared to write here in case of being attacked is that I want to talk to him, that I miss him.

          5. Lou says:

            LG, I am not going to repeat what many people have already said to you here. You already know that you should not contact him and that losing your job was inevitable and a blessing in disguise.

            Your addiction to him is very strong and I now wonder if you should not try and contact him again and let him abuse you until you come crawling back here convinced he is not good for you. Maybe you haven’t touched bottom, LG.
            It is your life and you have already received the information you need to escape and recover. Up to you to use it or not.

          6. LG says:

            Lou – your comment made me think. Maybe you are right and I haven’t touched bottom and I would need something even worse to wake up.

          7. HG Tudor says:

            No, you need to apply no contact to arrest your emotional thinking. It is down to you now.

          8. LG says:

            HG – If I were one of your kind I surely would be able to apply no contact straight away and right now I really wish I was one of your kind just for a few weeks or so and I could switch off the button as fast as it is switched on. LIke this guy when he told me after two weeks that I should be over it because it was already 2 weeks!!!!! Sure!

          9. Lou says:

            LG, take one day at a time. Plan a daily routine you can follow so you get him out of your mind.
            Also, can it be that you cling to your narcissist because the idea of looking for a new job terrifies you and the idea that you could get your job back if you go back to him is more pleasant or easy for you?

          10. LG says:

            Lou – you tell me things that make me think. Hmmm…you could be very right that I am clinging to him because the idea of looking for something terrifies me and it does terrify me. Definitely, I see going back to that job as easier so you could be very right I am clinging to him much more because of that. He had the power to give it to me and now take it away. I wonder how the whole situation would be if the job part was not in the equation. I have the feeling that it would be as bad. I am not going to deny I am fine and I don’t miss him and so on but I do feel the job is what is killing me.

            I resigned and yet, it feels he fired me and that pain is something I don’t seem to get over. The images of what happened that day in the office keep going through my head day after day. That hurt me in a brutal way. And what hurts me the most is that he didn’t apologize and what is worse, see how he threatened me when I tried talking to him a few weeks back telling me he would nail my dirty skin on the wall. After all he had done to me at all levels, it does feel as if I am the one at fault. It feels I deserve everything he did to me. Last year he told me that it was my actions what made him pull away. Now he says he threw me like that because one day I was on private calls at work and there is always an excuse for everything. I am yet to hear something like “sorry, I apologize, that was my fault”. Not once did he say that

            Yesterday I was remembering how in December one day he was happy to talk to me and he told me so. He said “nice to see you”. The next day I asked why how come he was so glad to see me. His reply: “you don’t deserve to know”. ????

            If I was sick and he didn’t ask me how I was he would say he wasn’t like that. If I asked him why he didn’t comfort me when I was going through a bad time he would say “I am not like that”. If I went to the dentist he wouldn’t ask how I was and same answer or if I was sick at the weekend he would say he didn’t feel obliged to ask me how I was because we didn’t live together.

          11. Lou says:

            LG, job hunting can be terrifying because we have to “sell” ourselves and we are confronted to a lot of our own insecurities and our sense of worth. My advice to you is, concentrate on that, concentrate on understanding the fear you are feeling which is immobilising you and not helping you to break free from the narcissist. For many on the codependent spectrum, it may be very difficult to feel confident and know what they want, so it is easier and feels safer to obsess about their narc. $Forget about that job and stop blaming you for having quit. There is a very good reason you quit. Find ways to soothe your fears; be your own parent and get into action. Step by step; one day at a time.

          12. HG Tudor says:

            Quitting was abiding by logic to remove yourself from the narcissist. Build on this.

          13. LG says:

            HG – I am wondering how I was able to abide by logic considering the state I was in at that moment. I was hurt like hell after him telling me there was someone else and I knew quitting would leave me with no job and yet, I applied logic? All I could feel was terror and feeling unsafe and at that time I could not think that I was losing my job. All I could think is “get out of here”.

            This is tricky – if I had been practical I wouldn’t have resigned and I would have considered ending things with him but keeping my job and I didn’t do that. I feel I wasn’t thinking at the time. I was moved more by instinct.

          14. Lou says:

            LG, I just want to add that you do not need to know what you want to do or have for the rest of your life, and you do not need to find your absolute dream job. You just need to find a job that can give you a sense of more safety and stability. That is what you need to give yourself right now. You cling to the narc because he gave you these feelings too. IT WAS FAKE. You need to learn to give it to yourself. So start with small steps. Maybe even having a temporary, easy to have job (which does not require a lot of qualification) may be a good solution for you now, the time you recover emotionally. What do you think?

          15. Lou says:

            Wow, LG, your addiction is strong!

            But you’re being honest (and totally irrational Too!)

            LG, would you mind telling me if NPD runs in your family?

            Do you have a parental narcissist?

          16. LG says:

            LOU – no, no narcissists in my family

          17. Lou says:

            Thanks for your reply, LG.

            I have another question, I hope you don’t mind: what is your relationship with rejection?
            I ask because another big aspect of why people hate job hunting is the exposure to rejection. Not many people can handle rejection well, but in your case, and from what i have gathered in your story, you may be someone who is deeply affected by rejection. Seems to affect your sense of worth deeply, and maybe you wanting to contact him is your unconscious want to heal the pain rejection has caused not only with him but in your life in general.
            Just a thought.

          18. LG says:

            Can I ask? For anyone who wants to reply…so he meets someone very recently while he was with his wife and myself ( new one married with kids and lives in a different city) and he tells me that it has turned out to be serious, also that once it was obvious that it was mutual between them he stopped seeing me ( he had been with me on a Monday and by Friday he was with her) so I believe implying that he was waiting to see how it turned out with new one before dropping the wife and myself. He goes to his wife one night at 11 pm and tells her about this new woman and that he is moving out and the next day he goes to see the new one. He offers me friendship literally saying we can spend time, go for dinner and similar as friends. ( I told him no).

            This new one. Can it be serious with someone you don’t know??? Leave a marriage of 25 years for someone you don’t know??? And why did he leave his family for her when he told me he wouldnt leave the family and that this is the way it would stay? This when he had also told me that if he wasn’t committed he wouldnt let me go because I am a keeper. At the same time telling me I was at a different level when comparing me to the new one. I told him how he had said he was not leaving his family and he says that things changed. I feel she is treating her much better and he is serious about her if he left his family for her.

          19. Sweetest Perfection says:

            This is probably gonna hurt but I’m saying it regardless. That other woman that you think is new, was with him while he was with you and with his wife. He probably was using the three of you for fuel and triangulation and who knows if he is telling her he is serious while also having another prospect that he is seducing. He doesn’t love you. He doesn’t love his wife. And he doesn’t love her either. You all are just cell phone chargera to him. I have three cell phone charges but guess what? I like to use the new one because the cord is bright and red and it looks shinier than the conventional ones. I don’t use the other two, but sometimes I use them because I can’t find the new one or I am using it to charge my iPad. If you think I love any of my chargers, you are wrong. If I lost one tomorrow it would just be inconvenient but I would replace it with any of the other two or would buy a new one. That’s you. A cell phone charger. Unplug and leave this addiction, it’s gonna make you sick I’m being honest. My narc was already grooming his next IPSS (my replacement) while married to his IPPS and seducing me at the same time. I escaped but I know he is not interested in this new girl anymore. The girl I so hated had been shelved. You mean nothing to him, all three of you, and your mother.

          20. Twilight says:


            My head hurts this morning please bear with me.
            Your comment about being a cell phone charger reminded me of a conversation between Jon and I when he was explaining how people are attached to him.
            He was holding his phone and told me metaphorically the phone was him and how the many lines of information was connected to this via invisible lines. He said it is how one uses this information that provides that what it needed.

            Just like when he explained how people were on levels with him the higher the level the more important they were to him.

            I hadn’t thought about him in this manner in a while yet discovered a tiny remnant of his toxicity deep within me in the early hours this morning. The infection can be buried so deep it is hard to identify due to absorbing and owning that which isn’t yours.

          21. MB says:

            Sweet P, I absolutely love the cell phone charger analogy. “and your mother”

          22. Sweetest Perfection says:

            I was gonna say “and his mother,” but my narc is the exception to that, being as he is actually in love with his mother.

          23. MB says:

            SP, I had forgotten about that!

          24. Sweetest Perfection says:

            I haven’t. If only I just could talk more freely here…

          25. Sweetest Perfection says:

            On second thought, I just hope my chargers never find this blog…

          26. bluedolphing says:

            I would like to understand – when he told me about the new woman, the one he said he had met very recently and I told him that then he had been seeing us at the same time, why did he reply: “but you are at different levels without any disrespect”? He had only been with me days before and that very same day he told me he wouldn’t be seeing me repeatedly if he didn’t like me. What was the “at different levels”? for.

            I mean not only cruel to be with 3 of us at the same time but he has to let me know I was at underground level???? when only months before that he had told me that if he wasn’t committed he wouldn’t let me go, would grab a hold of me because I am a keeper????

            Please, can anyone explain?

          27. Sweetest Perfection says:

            I may be wrong but I think he tested your ability to provide fuel and when he met the other woman he saw a bigger potential there, in which case, if you were in IPSS position to be considered as a possible IPPS replacement, you immediately lost that position by comparison with a new IPSS who satisfied his fuel needs better and therefore the replacement occurred quickly in this case. It doesn’t mean he loves her more or that she is prettier or that she is younger or any of that; it means he can abuse her more easily and she’s more complacent than you are, which to me, is a huge compliment to you. Run. Away.

            When I met my narc, he told me he was single and flirted with me. Nothing happened because my husband, at that time my fiancé, noticed he was hitting on me and got in the middle. Surprisingly for me, the narc got married a few months after our first encounter, to his current IPPS. I always wondered what he saw in her; she is physically unfortunate objectively speaking and her job is not at all related to the profession that links narc and me together. He became my platonic friend-love and I still didn’t understand why he was with her. When we got entangled, I wished secretly that he fell in love with me and dumped her. He tried to elicit a response to that from me sometimes, asking me questions like: “do you mean you wish our circumstances were different?” I didn’t answer because I didn’t want to be totally vulnerable to him. I cannot thank enough my guardian angel, God, the Holy Spirit, the Virgin Mary, Krishna, Jupiter, or whoever was taking care of me at that time for NOT being qualified for the IPPS position. Now I don’t envy her, I pity her, and I thank her for being there. It could have been me.

            I know it is hard to accept but in time you will realize how fortunate you have been to escape the torture. Look at yourself in the mirror, and tell yourself you love you, you are worth everything good and you are lucky to be safe from his claws. You are giving him too much credibility for asking yourself -and us- why did he say this to me, why did he do this instead… he does not write your story, you do! He didn’t dispose of you, you showed her you are too good to buy his BS.

          28. Sweetest Perfection says:

            And sorry for the typos, I was trying to send my answer right before going for a run. Exercise helps with narc detox, btw.

          29. FYC says:

            LG, Asked and answered.

            He is a narcissist. He is neither happy nor serious with anyone. He only cares about his prime aims. Forget him.

          30. MommyPino says:

            “And why did he leave his family for her when he told me he wouldnt leave the family and that this is the way it would stay?”

            “At the same time telling me I was at a different level when comparing me to the new one. I told him how he had said he was not leaving his family and he says that things changed. I feel she is treating her much better and he is serious about her if he left his family for her.”

            “What was the “at different levels”? for.”

            Hi LG,

            The phone charger analogy from SP explains what ‘the different levels’ are for. I have three cellphone chargers. One I have decided to use in the car and it stays only in the car. It has a very short cable and it has a USB plug. I have a couple charger in my night stand. It has a medium length cable and has a wall plug. My third charger is by our elliptical. It has an extra long charger so that I can charge it and still reach me and have it usable while I’m exercising. It also has a wall plug. These are all appliances with different features that I use for different purposes. I like all of them at different levels. Is there anything that I like better than the other? None. But I have to admit that out of all of them I use the charger in my night stand the most. But I still appreciate that when I am traveling I have my charger in the car available. And it’s also convenient that I can charge and use my phone while exercising because of the extra long cable of my third charger. So my night stand charger is my IPPS. My car charger is my IPSS. And my elliptical machine charger is my DLS.

            All three of you have traits that are unique and he has you all compartmentalized based on your unique traits (as he sees them) and what he thinks those traits will serve his purpose.

            I agree with the previous advices given to you by the commenters here. You need to work on moving on and forgetting about him. Don’t give him any more value than the value that he gives you (which is zero value). Stop spending so much time talking and thinking about him. Do you think that he spends any of his time talking about you? No. Do you think that he even thinks about you? No. He’s too busy with his new supply and relishing the brand new fuel that she is giving him. So why are you wasting more time and energy talking and thinking about him? Lou gave you wonderful ideas that are better ways to spend your time. Do a journal and write all of the negative things about him and write all of the positive things that you want from a relationship. I have seen you in your previous posts ask him what he thinks of you and what he likes about you. Why? I don’t even ask my husband what he thinks about me or likes about me. Why are you giving him so much power over you? Why don’t you write on your journal a list of things that you think about yourself, both positive and negative? And a list of things that you like about yourself? Use this as an opportunity to reflect on yourself and learn about yourself. Ask yourself what vulnerabilities do you have that got you ensnared by this disordered guy? What is it about you that allowed you to settle for less? And also you can write in your journal goals for yourself. You can aim to be more fit and attractive and so you can follow Lou’s advice to be active. It is true that Endorphins help us feel good. You can do all kinds of productive things and fun things instead of wallowing and ruminating about the stupid things that this disordered guy have said to you. NarcAngel was right when she said that narcs just throw all kinds of things and see which ones stick. There’s no deep meaning or real rhyme or reason for all of the things that he said. He is disordered. He’s not normal. You are normal.

            Also don’t regret leaving the job. You did yourself a great favor by resigning. You resigning was a self defense mechanism of yourself protecting you from him and his further abuse. Do not second guess that. Your Emotional Thinking is skewing that as a weakness but in truth leaving that job was the right thing to do because you don’t need to put up with more of his shit. Listen to your defense mechanism protecting you. He is not good for you and stay away from him.

          31. Sweetest Perfection says:

            MommyPino, welcome back! How was your trip to the Philippines???

          32. MommyPino says:

            Hi Sweetest P! My mom passed away and we had a 6-day funeral for her. We just got her cremated this morning. The funeral is over so I can finally catch up on sleep. Here we watch the dead for 24 hrs and people who know the dead visit to look and chat with the family (me) about the dead person. Funerals here are usually 5-9 days. We did it for 6 days but we will keep praying the rosary up to the ninth day. I will be visiting relatives while I’m here after the ninth day. One of my cousins live by the beach and I will stay with them before I go back to the US. His wife will teach me how to ride a motorcycle so I’m really excited. 😊

          33. Sweetest Perfection says:

            I’m sorry about your mom, MP, I didn’t know that was the reason of your trip. Enjoy the motorcycle ride! I used to have a moped when I was in college and my husband has a big Yamaha. Nothing to do with each other of course, but I like motorcycles.

          34. MommyPino says:

            Thank you Sweetest Perfection!! It was the reason, she was very ill. I do like the tradition here in our country where the people who love the deceased is given a lot of time to process the death with the support of all kinds of people that visit the loved one 24 hours each day during the funeral which lasted for 6 days in my case. I was able to catch up with so many relatives that I haven’t seen for so many years. Some of them even stayed with me and slept with me in front of the casket the whole evening to be with me as I watch my mom’s casket. We also had so many discussions about my mom (matrinarc) that was very healing. The knowledge that I got here from HG helped my cousins who were also abused and some were even destroyed by her to have healing. I was very happy that each one left with a big smile and peaceful countenance even though they didn’t have that when they came in. They were all very supportive and understanding of me. I’m very blessed.

          35. Sweetest Perfection says:

            LG, who’s attacking you? No one has attacked you. But if you don’t like the answers to your questions because you are expecting the answers you are seeking, that’s not gonna happen here. “I must be cruel only to be kind / Thus bad begins, and worse remains behind.” What you are feeling is bad, but in time you will realize what you left behind was worse. I don’t think you care about anything we are saying so I’ll stop talking to you too. But stop accusing us of something we haven’t done, no one is attacking you.

          36. LG says:

            SWEETEST PERFECTION – The attacking was only meant for one person and she knows who she is. I know every one else is helping and yes, I do care about what people are saying. It is just too much to take and I said it – I am overwhelmed

          37. Sweetest Perfection says:

            NA is not attacking you either, LG. She called you entitled because, in the past, we have witnessed some nasty people that accused HG of favoring some commenters over others, when the reality is that HG, like all of us, has a personal life too aside from the blog. Sometimes he disappears for a whole week, to our distress and desperation, but we have to suck it up. I’m not gonna defend NA because she’s more than capable to do that herself, but she really is the soul of the blog. Now, she won’t bite her lip if she needs to tell things the way they are. I love straightforward people who have a spicy sense of humor, like her. Other people may find that too abrupt. But nobody is attacking anyone here. Not until Pamela shows up of course (if you stay long enough, you’ll meet her).

          38. K says:

            And you need to understand that The Readers have become overwhelmed, as well.

          39. Twilight says:


            I made a comment long ago to you on why he did what he did.

            Fuel….it dictates everything they do. The job was offered to create a sense of gratitude and binding you closer to him….which created a sense of control over you and provided positive fuel for him your resignation wounded and him throwing you out was done to maintain his sense of superiority, control and to bring forth the negative emotion from you which is fuel in the negative form to heal his feeling of not being in control of the situation.

            You would never have been able to keep your job and maintain any balance of emotions.
            Do I understand what you are feeling, yes I do I was IPPS not I believe you are DLS or IPSS.
            My ex caused me to not only lose my job yet my home and my entire support system. I had to make a choice I knew he was a Narcissistic Sociopath a Greater, he was not only aware of what he was yet explained his perspective to me.

            You have to control your thoughts and for every why he did this or that, the answer is he is a narcissist and was behaving in his interest of harvesting fuel to met his needs.

            The choice is yours for how long you stay stuck in this merry go round of twisted up emotions your situation has caused. Understanding their perspective vs trying to dissect the whys he did this or that is what will bring freedom from the high ET to LT.

          40. FYC says:

            Well said, Twilight. Better to choose now that lose another moment, much less a lifetime as some do.

          41. Twilight says:


            We actually chose how long we are going to deal with things, we just don’t recognize we are making a choice.
            ET is a bigger con artist then the narcissist, they just have either instinctively or both instinctively and aware of how to use it to manipulate things to gain what they need to survive.
            This is no different then a lion hunting a gazelle, the lion needs the gazelle to survive just as the narcissist needs his victims to survive… is just energy when you get right to the bottom of things.
            We just need to become more aware of the predators…..

          42. FYC says:

            Hi Twilight, I agree with you, we choose. I also agree ET is a much more difficult thing to alter due to lack of awareness of its existence and affect. I also agree that people’s awareness of their choices and behaviors varies widely.

            I’m not sure I understand your comment about lions. Lions do not kill for sport like orca or polar bears. They conserve energy and kill quickly. Usually they snare the back of the prey or pounce from above to stop them and then immediately go for the throat; first to end the life of the prey and to drink the blood that supplements their lacking natural water supply. African lions can die of thirst without their kill blood. Lions do enjoy the chase, but it must be limited to conserve energy. The female lion is the hunter. The male protects the pride. Lions will surplus kill for the pride, but not for sport. A house cat will toy with anything that moves, but a lion means business (will also kill for domination or defense).

            From HG’s account, Ns conserve energy. They stalk. They consume the fuel of their victims. But These are the only similarities I see to lions. N’s seduce versus pounce and kill. N’s gather fuel for sport (power/control). Although I suppose it could be argued that psychological ‘survival’ of the N is in question from their perspective, they would not literally die without fuel.

            Sorry to be so literal, Twilight, but I support wildlife IRL, so I may have gotten hung up in the technical differences. If you mean both the empath and N have a necessity for each other, I would not agree. If you mean both are enmeshed in the dynamic, I would agree, but empath need not always be with a N.

          43. Twilight says:

            Hello FYC

            I was speaking metaphorically.

            An Empath doesn’t need a narcissist yet a narcissist needs an Empath. No different the the lion and gazelle.

            And no the narcissist wouldn’t “die” yet your talking such an engrained survival instinct within them they will never take the chance to see this.

          44. FYC says:

            Wildlife predators maintain ecosystem balance. Seems to me Ns do not, but I get your point, I need to be ensnared by a narcissist like I need a hungry lion choosing me for dinner 😉

            Your second paragraph is spot on. The defense is so deep.

            When you are in the presence of a N, what do you feel from them? Does it vary by type? Can you sense N type by feel too? Just curious since your level of empathy is so rare, Thanks Twilight.

          45. FYC says:

            Twilight, Please expand on your understanding of energy. Do you mean that it seeks continual balance? Or is transferred or exchanged? Were you making the point that both lions and prey species need to survive for the balance of energy/wildlife ecosystem?

          46. Twilight says:


            Energy exchange happens all the time people just don’t notice it when it feels good only when it feels bad does one truly pay attention to it.

            Everything vibrates on different frequencies. Just like the oils I use some are a higher frequency others a lower one. Each affects the body in different ways.
            Look at music and how it affects people, being in nature what we eat etc.

          47. FYC says:

            Great analogy Twilight, thanks for answering that. I understand what you mean. I tend to notice both. I see it as dynamic. I also am aware of how the energy flow affects me.

          48. K says:

            Your last sentence says it all!

          49. Lou says:

            LG, I just want to explain that I do not mean you write or journal about your narcissist as that would keep you engaged with him and the goal is to get him out of your life, mind and body little by little so that your addiction to him and your ET come under control. I suggested journaling as a tool for you to gain more insight on your emotional state and gain some distance from them by observing them. You should focus on yourself, your well-being, on re-building your self-esteem and on breaking your addiction to the narcissist.

          50. Getting There says:

            Hello, LG.
            I hope you don’t mind if I jump in with some thoughts.
            I am so sorry you are going through this pain and confusion! It sucks! It sounds like it wasn’t just the relationship but a job situation as well. That is hard to have to deal with the loss of both and what comes with each, and all at the hands of the one person you thought who loved you and wanted only good for you. Definitely talk about it here. Scream about it here. Shoot, make jokes about it here if you get to that point.

            What the heck happened you are asking. You will never fully know because you only know an extremely small fraction of his life. You were filed away in one role of life. That role is not insignificant but he may never have plans to refile you into a different role. Would you have stayed if he told you that? Was there a risk of someone else coming and taking your interest? If so, he probably spoke and acted in a way to maintain you. He had no plans to let you go that is why he offered what he did as friendship. That was putting you on a shelf until he is ready to move that relationship back to where it was. He doesn’t need you in that role right now as he has someone new giving him what he needs, but he wasn’t going to let you go. You wounded him so he is now saying and doing things to make you pay. This is a moment of pride for you which you won’t see now.
            As for leaving his wife when he said he wouldn’t. It sounds like he has before, if I didn’t misread that. You don’t know what is happening at home and he won’t be honest with you about that. You are compartmentalized from his wife so his actions with this new woman is about him, his wife, and the new woman. It isn’t about you. You would be like a TV show he paused to go see a game he was invited to at last minute.
            It isn’t fair as you are a person and deserve to not be treated like you can be thrown away or tossed aside. I don’t remember reading if you have a new job. If not, I hope you can find one that will not include him and will bring fulfillment in a different way. Please don’t rely on someone who lies for fun for anything. You deserve a solid path.

          51. LG says:

            Getting There – and exactly as you say – in my case it wasn’t only the relationship but the job also and it is the job part what is causing me the most pain right now because I resigned myself due to not being able to cope with the situation at that moment in time. So I am regretting having resigned and also the way he threw me out afterwards. That in addition to the emotional part, which kills me too.

            To see the person you cared about so much throwing you out of the office like he did that day ….that broke my heart…..and days before that he had told me he had someone new and that I was at a different level and only wanted friendship. In addition, I was alone, no friends or family in a foreign country. To have all this happen in a matter of days was too much.

          52. LG says:

            Getting There – When you say “Would you have stayed if he told you that? Was there a risk of someone else coming and taking your interest? If so, he probably spoke and acted in a way to maintain you”. I am not sure what you mean with that. Someone else taking my interest?

            He told me he would hate if I left the job and I asked why. He said “I like to work with you and having you around”. At that time I was moved by his words and I thought Ok, I will stay but the next day I thought they are empty words and he doesn’t ever mean anything he says so I went and resigned. Even when I asked him why he offered me the job he said “it is better to have you here than in your country”.

            I am broken because at least I could have kept my job if I had been emotionally strong to survive the tsunami he put me through with meeting this new woman just when I was only there not even for 3 months.

          53. K says:

            My pleasure Lou
            If I think of anything helpful, I will happily post it.

          54. Getting There says:

            Hello, LG.

            I’m sorry you feel broken! I know you can’t see it now but you won’t always feel that way.

            What I meant by that is is it possible that you would leave him for another? Was there concern on his part that you would start a relationship with another man? If so, he would say what he needs to keep you in the relationship with him. There is a saying that “men will do anything for sex.” I believe there are certain limits what men will do but there doesn’t seem to be as many limits on what narcissists will do for fuel and control. Therefore he would be willing to lie and say what he knows you need to hear to stay. In this case it sounds like he was willing to even get you a job so you wouldn’t leave the country. That was all about control. You would not be able to provide what he wanted if you were in another country. He didn’t do it for you or to help you; although helping you with a job was a benefit. He did it because he had you where he wanted you. You are not a possession but you are treated like one by him.

            As an affair, did others know about you? Do you have close family or friends who knew about him?

            Of course you would still have the job if you were a robot and didn’t feel; and if you weren’t an adult and didn’t communicate your feelings. But let me ask you “why.” Why would you want to not be you? You just stuck up for yourself and that is a good quality. Why would you want to not be like that? Why would you want to be like the paused TV show who is only watched when he doesn’t have “a better offer?” It sounds like you want to be someone’s #1. Why bite your tongue, bury your hurt and feelings, and “suck it up” for this job? Is it really the job or is it him?

          55. LG says:

            GETTING THERE – No, I wasn’t going off with another man and there was no risk of that at all. That is not what he was thinking at all.

            Initially I spent 8 months in his country at another job in a different city from his. In December I returned home and in a way for me it was like ending the relationship with him too since we would be in different countries. We continued talking and when I was only back home for 3 weeks he offered me the job. It is true that the person who was doing that job left at that time and he knew I was looking for work so he told me it was a win-win situation since he needed someone and I was searching for a job. Once I was with him back in his country I asked again why he offered me the job and he said that it was better to have me there than in my country. That bit is what I don’t understand. I even had to go back home for a week to pick up some stuff and he told me “please, come back” (clearly, he knew I was going back because I had started the job and only going back home to get more things). When I resigned he told me that he would hate it if I left because he likes to work with me and having me around.

            I do know that the resignation was done following my instincts and the horrible pain I was feeling at the time but it was in my interest to preserve that job and in that case I should have been less emotional, keep it practical and logical and separated the personal side from the work side. But I couldn’t do it at the time. I would have needed time to think, to talk it out here in the blog or with HG in order to make a decision not rushed and only based on hurt and emotions.

            It is the job believe me. I will not deny that I am not over him but I am pretty clear about one thing – I would not continue with him in the situation I was with him all along, i.e. being an affair or seeing him only when he wanted. I would not tolerate that any longer. Could I go back with him? Yes, but only if he offered me a serious exclusive relationship. Other than that, it would be a big NO. With this time I have had to think I do know that I would not go back to what it was before.

            Leaving that aside, I did contact him and would want to get my job back. No, seriously, it has nothing to do with him personally. When you make decisions based on emotions and when they are breaking you in pieces, surely that decision is not a good one.

          56. Getting There says:

            Hello, LG.

            I just read your comment about what not having a support system and it all happening within days after my most recent comment back to you.

            That is hard! That is a lot of heartbreak and stress to handle on your own. Please know that you are not alone now; we on this site are here for you!!

            You wounded him by resigning and he did what he needed to maintain control. When your emotional state lowers, I hope you find yourself walking with your head high that you stayed true to you when the supposed only support and supposed love you had there did all he did in those few days.

          57. LG says:

            GETTING THERE – Yes, that question haunts me “why did he offer me the job?” It is difficult to say because it is not like he created a position for me. There was someone doing that job and it did happen she left just at the time I came back home and was looking for a job myself.
            Maybe it was easier for him to offer it to me instead of having to go through the whole process of advertising, interviewing, selecting, waiting for someone to start……..offering it to me was easier and faster so maybe that is the reason.

            I felt he saved my life by offering me that job and I was so grateful. I don’t know if he wanted me back there for control as you say or whether it was an easy way to fill the position.

            He was very contradictory always. As he was telling me that he would hate if I left the job because he likes to have me around he was also saying that there was nothing wrong with just saying hello and good bye at work. Same way, he would always say he liked spending time with me and yet, he used to meet me once every 2 weeks for 2 hours at the most. The same telling me he likes me a lot.

            I don’t understand, you say he gave me the job to have me where he wanted me but for what? if he saw me so little?

            As for the possession probably true because at the start he told me he would keep me in a basement and give me food and drink and before moving to this country he said something like it wouldn’t be difficult to get me there as in doing something to get me to his country……

          58. nunya biz says:

            I’m so sorry you are feeling this way, LG.

          59. LG says:

            NUNYA BIZ – I feel many people are helping and are caring. You are one of them. The way I felt about attacking is just with one person who I will ignore from now on. I did not know how the moderation takes place here as in other forums posts are published straight away. I happened to notice that today they were taking longer and I wondered if it had anything to do with me asking questions or whatever. So just because I asked I was attacked being told “I feel entitled”. I really don’t want to go into an argument with this. I will ignore the person and I suggest she does the same with me because clearly, she doesn’t like what I write, so fair enough, just don’t comment or read.

          60. Getting There says:

            Hello, LG.

            Have you consulted with HG yet?

          61. LG says:

            GETTING THERE – yes, twice. Once an audio consulation and then the narc dectector. He told me he is Upper Mid Range Somatic.

            Clearly, I would like to talk further but I can’t due to financial reasons now.

          62. MB says:

            LG, I’m glad you have consulted with HG. I found that to be the best thing for getting through the initial withdrawal process. Along with Xanax. I’m serious girl, have your doc prescribe a benzo to help you through this. It is a grieving process. Your mind is racing and your fight or flight hormones are raging. You’re burning up your adrenals! Once you can settle your racing thoughts, you can pour yourself into your job hunt.

            PS I heard from a little bird that HG might be hiring. Unless you’re an accountant, that position has already been filled 😉

            All my best to you, girlie. I’m sorry you’re hurting. And just so you know, NA is a good egg. Don’t discount her just yet. I “get” her, but for some, she’s an acquired taste.

          63. Getting There says:

            That’s great, LG, that you have spoken with him. Try to remember what he said during that audio consultation. This is a hard situation that will take time and a lot of you taking care of you to help you through with the support of this site.

          64. MB says:

            There is a way to record Skype conversations. Either party can initiate the recording. Is this a feature you have started using, HG? I think it would be very helpful to have the ability to listen back to our consultations. Repetition is important to build logic.

          65. HG Tudor says:

            People do record them.

          66. MB says:

            Good to know HG. Back in the days of my consultations, I didn’t know recording was available. Maybe it’s a new feature.

          67. Bibi says:


            I chime in with others. I am firstly very sorry to see what you’re going through, but we’ve been there. You’re not alone in this.

            I was reading through your comments with regards to this guy and I was getting dizzy. ‘He said this and then he said that but he means this when he meant that blah blah.’

            And then the constant over analyzing. I used to do this. He is never going to apologize, he blames you for his ‘pulling away’, etc. It’s like no matter what you do he will find a reason for you to be wrong.

            This guy is very bad for your mental well-being. Just look at all the energy expended on him, his motives, his perceptions, etc. It’s all on him and not on you. I used to do this.

            I’m just going to say what you already know. You gotta cut your losses. There is no closure. He meets some new chick and she is suddenly perfect for him because ‘things have changed.’ What baloney. He is full of shit. Then things will change again–all on his terms.

            I see a lot of myself in what you’re writing–as in, what I was a number of years ago when I was a complete wreck and desperate for validation. The same was done to me–twisting things around, then when you react, blaming you for why he pulls away, blah blah. It’s all one gigantic turd.

            A new job, new people surrounding you will help. Even if it is just retail work to get you through in the short term, that is way better than working along side your narcissist. Don’t stick around for ‘rock bottom’. HG is right. No contact and emotional thinking under wraps. He is simply not good for you.

          68. Caroline R says:

            FYC and Twilight
            Your interesting thoughts on N vs E in comparison with Lion vs Gazelle brought to mind a documentary I saw about parrot species.

            The point was that for the parrot, and specifically the Macaw in this instance, the BEAK is everything.

            The beak IS the bird in some sense.
            Every other part of the bird is expertly designed to facilitate the beak’s function.

            The wings, the eyes, the feathers, tail,…. everything is just equipment to get the beak where it needs to be so that it can do what it does best….accessing fuel from seeds/fruit/anything required to be cleaved/sliced/hacked/ripped into that is out of reach or impregnable to other species.

            Your comments brought this to mind; the Narcissism in a sense is the mechanism that propels the person (Narcissist) to a position where their brain/(pleasure centres) can, by use of their personality (construct, fake persona, learned behaviour, natural attractiveness, talents, achievements ), extract/mine/plunder/receive the emotional responses (FUEL!) of the source target.

            Thus they receive dopamine (pleasure) release. Reward.

            The construct/applied persona/personality/physical abilities becomes the beak that extracts the fuel.
            The fuel is everything.
            Everything revolves around getting fuel.
            The fuel keeps the N alive, and empowered.

            I’ll be pondering this analogy for the rest of the day.

          69. FYC says:

            Interesting, Caroline. In that case, I would say the beak is the N defense and everything must serve the beak. Fuel keeps the beak, well, fueled.

          70. nunya biz says:

            “but you are at different levels without any disrespect”?

            Thinking of people in levels is disrespectful. People are not in levels. I have met several narcs who think exactly like this and some of them will even say it because it is literally, despite the very obvious insanity of it, how they think. It only reveals how disgusting they are. And the ones who talk like that are revealing their disrespect for human autonomy and how much they truly objectify you as an appliance. I have been with a man and not reached any conclusion regarding my feelings for him or any desire to “level up” into some fantasy relationship and had him betray a similar thought process. In my mind we are simply exploring a relationship, getting to know each other, enjoying each others company AS PEOPLE DO, he might start indicating some sort of audition process where they are interviewing me for position or something. It’s bizarre. I can catch that sort of thing a mile away.

            Because…. who said I wanted to take place in this game? The game is the narc’s made up game and if you play it then you are buying into that truth, that you are a “level”, that you don’t have the independent thought to perhaps eventually figure out this isn’t something you want to continue. One way people get the most hoodwinked by this sort of bullshit is by being told they are at the “highest level”, which is what he is telling her. People do want to believe the best about themselves and like to hear it.

            Let’s say I go run into some idiot at the local grocery who smells a little off and dresses weird and he walks up and says that I might be allowed to be a good friend of his if he deems me sufficient. I wouldn’t take that very well. It’s the same thing, he isn’t giving you a chance to think for yourself, he is removing your choice and control so that he can have it. My response to this sort of thing has been typically to laugh at the person and/or insult him. It’s the only valid response to such assumptions. Well, I should say the only valid response is GOSO, because the narc will always have a come back, as you have seen. Still, I have intentionally caused a few discards.

          71. MommyPino says:

            “but you are at different levels without any disrespect.”

            Mid-Rangers say things like this which is why I dislike them the most out of all of the narcy schools.

          72. LG says:

            MommyPino – how can the “at a different level” be without any disrespect? It is not possible that is being said without disrespect.

            First of all we hadn’t been seeing each other for just 2 days. We were involved for over a year. I had returned to my country in December for good and after 3 weeks he offered me the job. I didn’t have a job so I took it and went back to his country. We were still involved when I returned to his country for the job. It is not like he told me “look, this is just a job but there is nothing between us”. He was really nice with me. He told me it was better to have me there than back in my country when I asked him why he gave me the job. I went home for 1 week to collect some stuff and he told me “please, come back”. He seemed happy with me there. First day in the office there was no one else and he was kissing me, hugging me, etc…

            Just when he started to suggest that we could only be friends alleging that he had a problem with one of his sons at home he told me our thing was unhealthy and that he hadn’t promised me a relationship!!! how convenient! (of course, this was not because of his son as I later found out but because this new woman was already in the picture). How come hadn’t he told me before it was unhealthy and that he hadn’t promised me a relationship???? yet, he continued with me clearly raising my hopes.

            The very same day he was travelling to the new one (When I didn’t know yet there was another woman in the picture) he literally told me “don’t worry, don’t over think on the weekend because I haven’t told you no yet, I haven’t made a decision about us yet”. This was clearly because he wasn’t sure yet whether things were going ahead with the other one. Once he saw things worked out he had the guts to tell me “once I saw things were mutual with her I stopped seeing you”!!!! He had only been with me (intimately) on a Monday and he was travelling to the new one on Friday, yet telling me not to worry because he hadn’t decided about us yet and without telling me there was someone else because he made it look like that this whole thing was because of a problem at home with his son. I kept insisting if there was any one and he even told me “how can you say something like this when I am telling you that I have a problem at home?” but it didn’t make sense to me. So at one point I asked again and he said “I give up, I can’t believe you have managed to find out about this before I told my wife”. He wanted to inform his wife first about the new woman……

            As if this wasn’t enough and when he admits there is a new one he met very recently I ask him if he was seeing us both at the same time, something which was obvious and he tells me “but at different levels without being disrespectful”!!!!!. Does the “without being disrespectful” make it respectful by any chance??? comparing me to someone else when there was already a wife, myself and now this????

          73. MommyPino says:

            Hi LG, It is very disrespectful. But he is a narcissist and that is what they do. It doesn’t help you to keep thinking about it. He is an asshole, period. Just accept it. You just encountered a disordered person. Everything that he did and said to you were not normal. Normal people don’t do things like that. You would not do things like that because you’re not disordered. It is a blessing for you that you’re not with him anymore. Now you have a chance to meet an healthy person and be in a relationship where you are truly loved for who you are and not for what your traits can provide him.

          74. MommyPino says:

            Hi LG, HG just published these articles that perfectly explains what you went through and are going through.



            I pray for your healing and moving forward. I hope you find your inner power. Just keep reading here and as HG tells the commenters, “Seize the power!” Take care.

          75. LG says:

            I don’t know if this is narcissism of craziness! I am so hurt that I can barely function.

          76. LG says:

            When he told me he had met this new one recently and we could only be friends and that he was leaving his wife, etc…as I couldn’t take it any more I told him I was resigning. I couldn’t stay there any longer. His reply was “it is hurt pride”. I mean, it wasn’t hurt pride for God’s sake. It was being hurt to my core. But pride???? I never thought of it as pride.

            Last October when he hung up on me and told me we would not ever talk again or see each other again I blocked him on whatsapp. Minutes later he did block me too. He then sent me an email saying “are you angry that I blocked you first before you could?”. This wasn’t true as I had blocked him first but I was shocked to see that this is the only thing he was concerned about – who had blocked who!! when on top of that it wasn’t true.

            So he talks about pride when I am hurt, he talks about who blocks first when to me the important thing is to see how he was ending things……

          77. MommyPino says:

            Hi LG, It’s not narcissism or craziness. You are experiencing normal reactions. People get devastated after encountering narcs. And being an empath even makes you more susceptible to being massively hurt because of your innate traits and characteristics. One example is the empath’s tendency to remember things with more sentimentality than normal people. Read more of HG’s articles describing empaths and you will understand why you are reacting this way. Why it cuts us deeper than most people who are not empaths. Everything that narcissists do to us contradict the values that we hold regarding how we treat other people. That’s why it’s more insulting to us and more hurtful. And unfortunately these abuses were done to us while we were being mislead that there is a real and mutual relationship when in reality they are just taking advantage of us and asserting superiority over us the whole time to fill up the huge void that they have inside. What you are feeling is normal. It’s ok. You are human and an empath to boot. The only thing that we are saying here is that it isn’t helpful to you to wallow in this darkness. You have to make steps to leave that darkness and if baby steps are all that you can make right now because you’re still limping from the pain then so be it, it’s still going to help you move on. We are sharing to you the things that helped us get out of the narcissist’s spell. Right now you’re in a spell and captured in this illusion of darkness that his treatment of you have created. Nothing is real. You are not inferior to anyone. You are not an appliance. He is not above you. The new woman is not above you. You have to work on getting out of this. Reread the pieces of advice that the commenters gave you. Read HG’s articles and books. And see the guy who ensnared you for what he really is. He is disordered and he will never have a happy life. He will never love anyone. He will never change. You on the on the other hand are capable of those things which he is not.

            “When he told me he had met this new one recently and we could only be friends and that he was leaving his wife, etc…as I couldn’t take it any more I told him I was resigning. I couldn’t stay there any longer. His reply was “it is hurt pride”. I mean, it wasn’t hurt pride for God’s sake. It was being hurt to my core. But pride???? I never thought of it as pride.”

            He doesn’t understand why you are hurt because he doesn’t have empathy. He does feel pride but he never feels love. Don’t expect him to understand you because it’s like expecting a blind person to drive you to the grocery store. Aside from that, what he perceives as your hurt pride makes him proud that he is significant enough to you to cause you what he thinks was hurt pride. To him this is a game and he won over you.

            “Last October when he hung up on me and told me we would not ever talk again or see each other again I blocked him on whatsapp. Minutes later he did block me too. He then sent me an email saying “are you angry that I blocked you first before you could?”. This wasn’t true as I had blocked him first but I was shocked to see that this is the only thing he was concerned about – who had blocked who!! when on top of that it wasn’t true.”

            It’s called gaslighting and rewriting history. He is a narcissist. You wounded him when you blocked him so he blocked you and sent you that text to alter the truth to save his ego. He doesn’t care about the truth, he creates his own truth. It is up to you to reject it by ignoring it or to put any stock or value to it by reacting. Remember the illusion that I said they create? This is what narcissists do. I repeat, they are disordered. Just ignore these and always remember that he is disordered. He is not normal. You can write that in your journal in big letters too if that helps.

            It is ok to be hurt. But you have to take care of yourself. Stay out of his life. Ghost the hell out of him. Spit him out of your life. I remember when I went to a wedding reception and saw a little boy spit out his food on his plate because it was too hot for him. I remember being grossed out as I saw the chewed up food with spit bubbles on his plate. But what was really gross was when he took his fork and put that chewed up food back to his mouth. It was so disgusting. This is what I have adopted for myself whenever I am tempted to accept back in my life someone that I already know is toxic, disrespectful to me, and have betrayed me so many times. I don’t put them back into my mouth. Once I spit someone, I forget about them and move on.

          78. LG says:

            MommyPino – what you say reminded me of something. At the start when we started to talk he told me that maybe I had put a spell on him.

            Even back in October when he hung up and did the trick with trying to make me believe he had blocked me first, I had already told him how I thought he had no empathy, that he had no remorse, that things were always his way and so much more…..then he sent an email saying “I understand you are hurt and you need a scapegoat, all good with me”

            A month ago I called him to see if we could talk. He told me he wasn’t interested in talking to me and then he sent a text saying “don’t dare call me again after your nazi email copying my daughter or I will nail your dirty skin on the wall”. In retaliation to all he had done to me but especially because of the way he threw me out of the office I sent him an email calling him nazi and copied his daughter in the email.

            I suppose you also read somewhere how at the beginning just days before meeting for the 1st time in person he told me I could be a sociopath trying to kill him while he peacefully slept dreaming of something innocent. He also said that I was not shocked he had asked me to meet. I asked him if I needed to worry and he said “you never know, I might have a dark side”. While we were talking one day he also said he would keep me in a basement and give me food and drink……

            The whether this is narcissism or craziness in my previous post wasn’t about me. I was referring to him

        2. Renarde says:

          And a A Fucking Men to that x

  10. LG says:

    Lara – any chance you know of any good psychic? or maybe someone else knows?

    1. Alexissmith2016 says:

      I sometimes think HG is. He knows too much!

      Personally, I’d definitely recommend HG over a psychic LG.

      1. Lorelei says:

        HG may be a psychic!

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I think you mean psycho.

    2. Alexissmith2016 says:

      Those who portray themselves as psychics are very likely to be Ns in disguise LG. Sorry if that’s not what you’d like to hear. And it is only my opinion.

      1. NarcAngel says:


        You have company (lots I’ll bet). It’s my opinion that psychics are cons and narcs.

        1. ah glad you feel the same way NA.

          When I was a teenager I foolishly believed that whilst most were cons that there must be one or two who were genuine. And as a young child I wanted to be one because I wanted to help others!

          But I never had any ‘signs’ haha

          I now realise it is all emotional thinking. I’ve had some narcs try to convince me during general conversation that they’re genuine and I do wonder whether they actually believe that themselves or if they’re just trying to con me into believing it.

          I would imagine that Psychic events are another hunting ground for narcs. Plenty of empaths in the crowd!

          1. NarcAngel says:

            Yes because sadly most people employing them are so accomodating and wanting to believe that they will make whatever the psychic says fit. They know this merely by the fact that we are going to them looking for answers. There is mo skill needed or involved.

    3. NarcAngel says:


      Please don’t give money to someone who will take advantage of you by taking it and telling you whatever you want to hear but will not help you in any way. You’ve already been taken advantage of by someone through your emotional thinking and this is just another example of it trying to con you. You are better off to stay here and deal with the facts to beat your addiction than go broke trying to keep a fantasy alive.

      1. Presque Vu says:

        LG, I’m sorry you are in the middle of a tsunami!
        I remember those feelings very well!

        It didn’t matter what people told me, I wanted it from him. I wanted him to tell me why!!

        Why promise me things, make plans, proclaim love and that he can’t see his world without me in it. When you are so deeply in love (your love is 100% real) you expect no less because you are true. He sadly is not.

        Like you I went to star signs, astrology, relationship issue blogs, always asking why. Or is my sign compatible with his?

        My narc did the same, too many questions/delete/unblock/add loads of women/add me/delete/unblock and I just couldn’t understand why he wouldn’t speak to me. The confusion and despair takes over your life!

        He’s triangulating you too! I got that and it fucking crucified me! He told me a girl he had met was nice but it’s early days and the whole time I remember thinking WTF!! I’m in a relationship with you you fucking prick!

        He told you after 5 days that he loved you, that you were vulnerable. He had you marked. You stood no chance so please don’t blame yourself. You didn’t know then what you know now. You didn’t identify the red flags. They are screaming out!

        Know this. He has a wife, you can bet he’s fucked her over! He has a new girlfriend, he has new candy, she’s flavour of the month, you can bet he has a matrix of many many others.

        You’re lucky! You might not see it this way today, but you’ve found your closure right here. You’ve found it with HG. He has confirmed he is a narc, he has confirmed he will never change, and he has confirmed he can weaponise you to escape and go immediate NO CONTACT! You will feel so much pain initially BUT I CAN GUARANTEE YOU… in the months to come you will get your self worth back, your pride, your strength, your power.

        In a years time you will look back and realise what a woman you are, and a decent man he will never be.
        I’d want revenge over this fucker… I’d do that by breaking all contact and winning the war! I’d live the best life I possibly could and never look back!

        Stay on the blog, you got your soul sisters and HG to lean on xxx

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Indeed. Well stated.

        2. LG says:

          PRESQUE VU – the first big disappointment was because he had spent about 3 months making me believe he wanted something serious with me, he told me that being without me wasn’t an option. Then out of the blue he said he was not leaving his family. After continuing for about 10 months always believing he was not leaving his family he tells me he met someone very recently and that he is moving out and leaving his wife (just what he had told me but he didn’t do). He had been with his wife, me and the new one. I had only been with him on a Monday and that same Friday he went to see the new one. Not only that but when I asked him if he was seeing us both he said “but at different levels” (implying I was at a lower level than the new one). He told me that it turned out to be serious and they had met very recently. That same Friday he went to see her he had told me in the morning not to worry because he hadn’t decided about us yet and he hadn’t told me no. He was simply waiting to see if things with the new one were going ahead clearly because he told me that once he saw things were mutual between them he stopped seeing me!!!! All this caused me to leave the job he had had just offered me and for which I moved countries in January. I couldn’t take it. I felt sick and I left in April. As he didn’t have enough with all this after I resigned and informed I was leaving at the end of April. At the beginning of April I go to work and I receive an email from him copying HR and my colleague saying I had to hand in the key today and that my services are no longer needed there although I would get paid for the month of April. I responded by email asking the reason why copying HR and stating that he had confirm my departure as of the end of April. He came to my desk angry and shouted in front of everyone to give the key and leave. I said I wanted a reason. He said he doesn’t have to give me a reason. This with the whole office listening. He switched off my computer and I said I had to close my email. He removed keyboard and mouse aggressively and told me that was the company’ s property. I told him whatever he had to tell me to do it in private. He didn’t. He continued talking to me like this in front of everyone. By the way, I continued to do my job as usual even if I informed I was leaving at the end of the month. I asked for a reason to ask me to leave like this. Next thing was ” I will call the police if you dont go now”. My colleague, clearly supporting him said ” yes, I call them. I got my things and he came to the door holding it for me ( I felt escorted like a criminal and I even felt as he would push me if I didn’t leave quickly. I couldn’t do anything.

          You say his new gf is candy of the month but how? he left his wife for her (a marriage of 25 years). That seems a lot of sacrifice for just a candy of the month. He could have done it for me and he didn’t. Why now for her? Someone he had just met.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Focus on no contact. You are doing the wrong thing asking all of those questions. This has already been answered for you and you are unable to apply the understanding because your emotional thinking is too high because you keep engaging.
            1. Go no contact and I mean no contact.
            2. This will give you time to recover.
            3. Your ET will then drop and allow you to apply understanding.
            If you do not do 1-3, you will remain stuck.
            It’s your choice.

          2. empath007 says:

            Hi 👋🏻. LG!

            Wow. Things sound FRESH. I can literally feel all of your emotions coming through your posts (the ones I’ve read Anyways) and rest assured… all of us have been there at one time or another.

            I think what’s difficult for you right now is that a lot of us have had a lot of time now to work through some of those initial emotions, we’ve studied obsessively… went no contact and regained some composure. Hearing everyone speak is understandably feeling confusing for you right now.

            This is your LIFE… this isn’t just some chat room on a blog. For you there are a lot of huge things At stake right now, your relationship, your job… these are not little things. So I can understand that the last thing you would want to hear is a bunch of people who are further on their healing journey refer to your choices as “lunacy” etc. That clearly isn’t going to be helpful for you.

            But the advice HG gives you in response to this comment IS… breath. Read it. Read it again.

            “Focus on no contact. You are doing the wrong thing asking all of those questions” … LG … he’s right. What he says right there is crucial. Forget what me
            Or anyone else says on this blog… re read those instructions and follow them.

            In time…
            It will all make more sense to you.

          3. LG says:

            EMPATH007 – Yes, exactly, you cannot expect someone who is at step 1 act as if she was at step 10 just because you are there now.

            As for forgetting what people says in this blog, no, I want to read what people are saying because most people are being very helpful and many times things are said that make me think of things I cannot myself think.

    4. Renarde says:

      Echoing what others have said here. Don’t. It’s quite bizarre that although I spend a lot of time thinking and talking about contagion, I’ve never really seriously considered that sphere, that of the ‘professional psychic’.

      Some are genuine but they are rare. It’s not even Russian roulette when you book one, the vast majority of the time you get frauds.

      If you are interested in the exposure of frauds then study the TV program ‘Most Haunted’. The so-called trance medium Derek Acorah was exposed in the tabloids as a fraud. Career never recovered. Sally Fields is another. I wouldn’t trust her as far as I could throw her.

      Acorah is a twat. I remember once reading that the next stage of his mediumship was to produce ‘ectoplasm’.

      Never heard jizz called that before!

    5. L.G. I do not about your financial savings and living situation, and I do not know your home country nor this country that you are in, but if your situation is dire, there may be an Embassy or Consulate of sorts of your home country there that perhaps you can make an emergency appointment with? Those embassies are often boring, on a day to day basis, and they may be quite willing to take an interest in your situation and assist you. Also, are there any family members that can help you leave this country if you have to. And you can try to come back to this country if you like it there, in a few years from now? WARNING: Please know that In the United States, where I live, employees that leave a company in an unfavorable manner are put on a watch list with security at that company in case that employee is disgruntled and may want to take action against the company or an employee in that company. So, be careful in trying to go back to that company. Work on a plan B in case this guy is not going to help you, and wants you to leave him alone. Work on staying in that country or leaving for a while. That has to be your immediate focus right now. Your safety and welfare. The emotions will always be there, but they can not be the lead focus right now, unless you are secure over there, and only you know all the details, including your financial and housing details.

      1. LG says:

        PRINCESSSUPEREMPATH – I am not in his country any more. We are both in Europe though. I left his country in May.

        1. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

          L.G. My point is to look after your financial situation and housing and welfare first. Immediately. And if there is support for you if you need it, in whatever country you are in, make an appointment. I do not need to know what country you are in, but I am asking you to see if you can obtain help there, only if you need it. And, If any family can help you, contact them, if you need them. I do not need to know what country your family is in, neither. You know the private details, and you know if you are about to be homeless or not in that country. Food, Shelter and Clothing come first. And put your emotions on the shelf, because emotions need to be coddled and do not like thinking about practical things. Therefore I am reminding you of practical things, including legal things, in case you need that reminder. If you are secure in your housing and financial situation, then I am glad. You do not need a reminder. If you are not , you need to focus on those things now. The emotions will still be there, but emotions can be stubborn and not practical. We all have to be practical, even during emergencies. Emotions can lead to restraining orders, and people having the police called on them and escalating unstable emotional behavior that leads to bad actions that have long lasting repercussions once the dust has settled. This man is not your husband. You have no contract with him in any other type of partnership, personal or business. And you did not have an employment contract in that company. So, the law will not fight for you. It is not safe for you to keep fighting for either this man or this job all alone like you are. Lots of people think they can play around hitting rock bottom. Many will tell you they were not thinking straight and if they could do it over, they would not go to rock bottom, ever. Protect yourself from your emotions. Before they go too far in this situation, but you have all the details, that I do not. You know if your situation is safe for you or not. If it is not safe and secure, you need to work on that first, and then we can figure out why this guy is a jerk, later. But, it is difficult for me to talk about what made this guy the way he is, if I think you are not safe and secure. Safety first. I am a single woman in a big city. My safety and security always come first. Without that, I am in too much trouble. I too fell for a Narcissist. I too wanted to know what was happening, but when I did not want to work any more or do anything any more, I had to overcome my emotions that could have caused me to lose everything, and hold the practical things in life together. HG Tudor Helped me with that. To restain my emotional thinking. Food, Shelter and Clothing. .I knew I would not be safe and secure until I first found a way to be strong again and not lose my apartment and other things, because I only thought about this guy. That is how I ended up on Narcsite. I needed to find a way to be practical. Now, that I am better, I can think about what causes Narcissism and all that, but you need to focus on being safe, first. Your emotions are not going to disappear, and Narcissists will still be around. So be safe first, in that country or back to your other country, and maybe move back to this country next year, or so. And please focus on the practicality of what I am saying, and not what country all this is occuring.

          1. LG says:

            PRINCESSSUPEREMPATH – I am safe in terms of housing, clothing and financial. That is not the issue right now. So it is safe to talk about about what made this guy the way he is.

            Also, I DID have an employment contract when I worked with this guy. Not sure why you say I did not have one

        2. L.G. I am so glad you are safe. I thought you did not have a contract because you kept saying things were not fair at work, as if you could not sue this guy over how you were being treated. But, you are done with begging for the job back, I believe I read somewhere. So, I do not want to go backwards and discuss what is not in your plans moving forward. And, you do have plans moving forward, I would think. Nevertheless, the fact that you are safe, housing wise and financially is a tremendous relief to me, personally. And, it seems to me that this guy behaved in a manner that you have never encountered. Sometimes reality is tough to believe. Stranger than fiction, even. Especially the first time around. I am reminded of a song. There is a song I love that discusses how painful the first cut is to a person. Very Bad. And maybe, with this guy, this is your first cut. The song is by the Eurythmics (maybe you know this band) and a singer named Annie Lennox, and the song is Titled, `The First Cut.` Here are some of the lyrics. LG:

          [ `The first cut – is a criminal thing
          The first cut – goes deeper in
          Each impression
          Makes a chain reaction
          Each impression
          Will never be never be never be broken` ] ~~The Eurythmics

  11. LENA says:

    I think I’m a magnet. Do you have a more in depth book on this subject? Thank you!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hello Lena and welcome. If you want to understand why do you attract narcissists, do read the book Sitting Target.

  12. LG says:

    HG, I suppose being told “you are vulnerable” in reply to my question “what do you think of me?” and saying it twice as in another occasion to the same question he said “intelligent, attractive. Vulnerable too” is related to this article.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It is. It also is a manifestation of a portentous remark.

      1. LG says:

        HG, can I ask what you mean by “portentous remark”? not sure the meaning in this context 🙂

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Forewarning. You’re in a vulnerable position

          1. Desirée says:

            Forewarning? Wow I never thought about it like that, that’s eerie…

          2. LG says:

            HG, I am starting to wonder in which planet I was living. How did I ignore such a reply and so many others? Now months later I see he clearly saw I was vulnerable and he had not problem in telling me in my face when the normal reply would have been something like “you are interesting or nice, etc”. So I see whatever I told him at the start he used it against me. How stupid of me to tell him about previous relationships. I suppose he just gathered the information he needed to hurt me, which in fact what he told me he couldn’t stand, i.e. hurt me physically or emotionally. I am broken to see all this.

          3. HG Tudor says:

            1. Your Emotional Thinking blinded you to the logic – that is what it does.
            2. You see it now because your ET is beginning to lower (owing to reduced engagement) thus you see with Logic rather than the obscured view of ET.

        2. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

          LG. Thanks for asking about portentous remark I looked the word up earlier and could not quite settle on the applicable meaning in your circumstances. I was thinking of inquiring of HG about it, but was caught up on another article on this site as well. However, HG`s answer is alarming and quite telling. I hope things are okay with you.

          1. LG says:

            Princesssuperempath – I am not a native English speaker and the meaning I know for this word was more in terms of someone being clever, intelligent……I looked it up and like you I found several different meanings and didn’t know which one to apply in this case. And as if I am not confused enough by the ordeal I went through I thought it was better to have it clarified. Didn’t know whether he meant dangerous or what exactly.

            My story is here:

            Not the letter itself but in the comments in reply to the letter is my story

          2. LG says:

            Princesssuperempath – He told me at the very start that he would keep me in a basement and give me food and drink.
            He said I was vulnerable in 2 occasions. In both I asked what he thought of me and once he answered “vulnerable” and the other one “intelligent, attractive. Vulnerable too”. At one point I was telling him I was scared to trust people or something like this and he said “that is because of the hurt in the past”.
            When we continued talking after telling me he was staying with his family he told me “you take this because it is better than nothing”.
            When I went to work in January with him I asked him why he offered me the job and he said “it is better to have you here than in your home country”. I went home for a week and he said “please, come back”. When I told him that I was thinking of resigning he said “I would hate not to have you in this office”. I asked why and he said “I like to work with you and having you around”. Yet, he met me maybe a total of 5 times in the 3 months I was there.
            At the start, just after meeting the first time he said: “I really don’t want to hurt you or cause distress, both physically or in other ways”. “Please, this is important to me. Why am I scaring you? I could not stand the idea of hurting you physically when we had sex, and it is the same mentally.” “It is not nice to be mistrusted”
            He seemed to be very focused in me trusting him at the start
            He said “remember when we first talked about honesty? This is very important to me but it also means I want your trust unless I did something to lose your trust”.
            He said “you never know, I might have a dark side!”. This is because I asked him why he had said that I wasn’t shocked when he asked me to meet.
            He said “Yet you agree to meet with a stranger for dinner”. “Must be my charms or my good looks”
            Just before meeting in person he said: “Well you could turn out to be a sociopath trying to kill me while I peacefully sleep dreaming of something innocent”
            He said that he is a pretty good observer
            At the start he told me “this is not something I do – writing and planning to meet”, “this is not a daily routine”, “I am telling you so that you don’t have the wrong impression of me

            One day he said “what is love anyway?”
            He would text or talk aggressively saying things like “I am not to be prompted”, “I am not good at doing the things someone else expects me to do” or “I hate your questions” or many times telling me “just read what I wrote, you don’t get it, do you?” or “I only do things when I want to” or when I said that he hadn’t kissed me one day recently he said “I don’t kiss you in the mornings”…….I was always waiting to see when he would kiss me or when he would say/do something.
            When we started talking he told me he wanted to know me as completely as possible and that he wanted to know my fears, dreams, fantasies and delights. He said he wanted the complete package, be a couple, live together, serious. He asked me what was important for me in life and I said I would write an answer. After 1 hour he wrote telling me “I thought you were sending me that reply. The reason is I am eager to know”. We only talked for 2 weeks and then we met in person on a Tuesday. He told me “I will not survive beyond Tuesday if we don’t meet”. He told me he was thrilled to know me and that his heart was mine, thanked me for being part of this Universe, that he was falling in love, that he hesitated to use the “L” word but that liking me wasn’t enough, reassured me I wasn’t an affair and that is when he told me honesty was very important for him. He said “liking you is already not deep enough” and “date” is not a word that suits me (this was in relation to the fact that we were meeting for the first time).
            After a few months when things clearly started to change I asked him what he likes about me. After thinking for a while and telling me that he likes the elephant in my pyjamas, he said “it is better I tell you what I don’t like because I will be finished quicker”. Yet he never told me what he likes, just avoiding the answer. One day I told him something about missing him or liking him and he said “I was just going to say something about that but now since you brought it up I will not say”. The very last time I was with him in March I asked him what he likes about me and he said that he would tell me one day.
            When at the beginning I told him that he didn’t seem to take the initiative to call he hung up on me and didn’t answer messages or calls from me all day long ignoring me. The next day he told me I had attacked him, that he felt attacked.

          3. Lou says:

            Hi LG. I have an observation. You keep repeating your story with your narc in your comments and was wondering if it is a way for you to order your thoughts and see what happened with him more clearly. It can also be a way to deal with trauma. Am not sure. Have you had another consultation with HG?

          4. LG says:

            Lou – maybe it is a way for me to realise what happened and maybe the trauma too. Sometimes I also want to provide detailed information as otherwise any judgements from others could be wrong. I am actually awaiting for HG’s narc detector results. This is the second consultation I had after the audio consultation. I found the audio consultation not long enough to discuss many things I wanted to discuss because out of the 1 hour it lasts you spend at least 30 minutes explaining the situation.

            I can’t afford doing as many consultations as I would like.

          5. Lou says:

            LG, I am glad you have continued to consult with HG. I commented on you repeating your story while getting off a train and running to meet a friend, so I wrote my comment quickly without thinking much. I hope it didn’t bother you. It was not intended to be a criticism. You can go through those events as many times as you want if that helps you, or if you think it is necessary for the other reader to know such details. The reason I made that comment is because I had the impression your ET was still very active and making you go through those events seeking confirmation from the outside without you really acknowledging them for what they are. However, I just read your last comment to HG and see your logical thinking has started to kick in, which is great. I am very glad to read you have started to analyze what happened applying what you are learning here.

          6. LG says:

            Lou – in this case I repeated things in reply to this new person in a different thread because she didn’t know the details. Since we were talking about the “vulnerable” comment here being creepy I thought to tell her.

          7. NarcAngel says:

            There is an article. Use the search function to find The Portentous Remarks Of The Narcissist.

        3. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

          LG: This person seems text book bad. And is projecting desires to isolate you and act out some fantasy on you where you are like a slave in a dungeon with Stockholm syndrome. He wants to be able to say in the future, if things goes bad and you tell others or report him, that you trusted him to play this scene out on you. Will you ever get out alive? Who knows. I wonder if you are still entangled with this person. Maybe it is not your destiny to go down this person`s drain. But, I perceive that you are in a dangerous place. And do not push Destiny too far. Get Out. It is better to be safe and alive and able to wonder about how it would all have played out, than to be actually in a basement tied up and fed dead cooked rats, as your fair, when your use is almost coming to an end.

          1. Renarde says:

            LG – I am in total agreement with PSE here. This has bad written all over it.

            What stands out for me is despite the obvious, his dancing around the word ‘Love’. In my book, that is a massive black flag.

            Coupled with the speed of him getting inside your head.

            Yeah. Please be careful.

          2. LG says:

            Renarde – Why do you say that what stands out for you is despite the obvious, his dancing around the word ‘Love???’. You also mention his speed at getting inside my head?

          3. Sweetest Perfection says:

            LG, it also seemed curious to me he never said he loved you. Most narcs do, immediately. Mine was “loving” me since the first day he said he had a crush on me, despite both of us being married. He said that and the next day he said he loved me. All is BS of course but they don’t have any problem in using the word, because it means nothing to them.

          4. Renarde says:

            You have, I suspect entangled with a Greater. Your cognitive dissonance is flying high. There is nothing wrong with that. You have been brutalised. Thats what the Gs do. But they do it in ever so a silky smooth manner.

            Keep reading and learning. HG will set you right.

          5. HG Tudor says:

            He is not a Greater.

          6. LG says:

            PrincessSuperEmpath – maybe he didn’t mean that he would literally keep me in a basement. It is maybe more like a thought of control and possession with this idea. I was reading the book Dangerous Liaisons and in in it you can find an excerpt that Picasso, who is considered to be a psychopath, told his target that he would keep her in the forest where no one could find her and where she could work privately and that he would bring food for her twice a day. When I read this I nearly closed the book in dismay. This was the exact same words and picture my guy painted to me. But in the book it was talking about psychopath’s trait of possession and control for his victims. That is why I wonder whether this implied control rather than the actual fact of locking me up.

          7. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Oh! I almost forgot! Mine also likes to entertain the idea that he is into dark stuff like the one you mention in Dangerous Liaisons; for mine, it is the Marquis de Sade. I just laugh at his sorry ass.

          8. NarcAngel says:

            I think part of the reason you are overwhelmed is due to trying to pin down things he said like you are here in trying to distinguish whether he implied control or actually meant locking you up. Neither is beneficial to you so it does not matter. Narcs lie. Fact. They say all kinds of shit and throw it out there to see what will stick (as in hook you and keep you that way), then when you have agonized over it and think you understand they will flip it to keep you guessing, confused, and invested. There is no point in trying to determine what he meant. You only need to know that there is no positive in it for you and once you accept that you can begin to move on.

        4. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

          LG: Regarding this guy discussing trust and discussing isolating and imprisoning you. DO NOT EVER FORGET THAT IDEAS FIRST START IN THE MIND. There is a case in NY where the law was/is attempting to incarcerate some men for what they discussed with their words, to do to some women, while speaking to each other on a fetish fantasy internet board. It was a few years ago, and I wanted to follow the case, but I did not have the time. I may look it up and see what happened or is happening at some point. The case had a lot to do with WORDS. Based on some DISCUSSIONS that these men had, and then someone tipped the authorities, and the authorities put a watch on these mens` posts to each other. At some point the men were arrested although they had not harmed anyone. The authorities saw enough of these mens` WORDS to believe that these men could go operational, they said. It was/is a very controversial case. See, LG… one does not want to get to the point that a thought and words finally becomes operational by actions. That is why HG and I and Renarde see signs from his WORDS and any other similar words addressed to you, that we should warn you to WATCH OUT. It is usually too late to salvage the victim after a certain point, when the potential victimized person is dealing with certain people with certain thoughts on their mind. And someone is always the first person that a perpetrator goes operational on. Certain Perpetration Execution Criteria are Met, and BOOM! You do down. Maybe it is the sensitive nature of the victim, or the willingness of the victim to disbelieve what is being said (like yourself), or that the victim has been isolated, and is in a needy state, desperate to be loved, and few people have seen the perpetrator with the victim, and the victim will follow the perpetrator to any location without leaving notice of their whereabouts to any living soul when going places, and many other reasons, that someone becomes the first victim. Plus, we do not know, in your case, if this person has not acted out his imprisonment fantasy on someone else, even if he tied them up for 15 minutes and made them beg to be let go, and gave them a trust word. And now he is ready to escalate to the next level with YOU. Anyway, this case in New York, that I was telling some women about, was removed from a simple post that I made on a reply on Youtube to a poster. It was so strange that my post was deleted, so I will not tell you more details, because I am afraid, because of what youtube did. I never had anything ever deleted before that. Plus, I do not know why it was removed since it is an actual case, that people could look up themselves with a bit of info to search for it. But, I think there was a word that is banned somewhat, and I used that word from the actual case. Words are important, LG. For example, If someone discusses taking out an act of terrorism, at what point do the authorities listen to their words,and then move in to stop them? When they have pushed the detonator, it is too late, to save the victims, although you may still catch the terrorists, yes?.But, it is better to prevent, is it not? Some people are terrorists, and you must listen to what they say. And, listen to what people say, when they tell you what they want to do to you, LG. Those thoughts could go operational. And, so believe them. Believe Those Words. If you do not believe what they say , when they actually tell you what they want to do to you, what is it that you do believe? This is a question for you to ask yourself as you go about dealing with all sorts of people on this planet. I hope we are reaching you. Bad things happen in neighborhoods that people say often say: we can not believe this happened here:This is not New York. (I hate when people say this, because, I live in New York). But, you catch my meaning, I think.

          1. LG says:

            SWEETEST PERFECTION – you mentioned the isolation bit and the trust but what is wrong with him wanting me to trust him? Yes, I could see at the start that he was putting too much emphasis on me trusting him. Something like ““but I want you to know even if you really let go and open up I would not hurt you on purpose” or ““remember when we first talked about honesty? This is very important to me but it also means I want your trust unless I did something to lose your trust” or “Why am I scaring you? I could not stand the idea of hurting you physically when we had sex, and it is the same mentally.” “It is not nice to be mistrusted”. Just before meeting he also told me that I didn’t seem to be shocked at him proposing to meet and added “yet, you agree to meet a stranger”. I asked if I should worry and he said “you never know I might have a dark side”. The basement comment and giving me food and drink I take it more as a sign of his need to possess/own and control, maybe not so much in that he could act like that.

            I just don’t know what he was trying to tell me with all those comments “vulnerable” and everything else…..

          2. LG says:

            You said ” Renarde see signs from his WORDS and any other similar words addressed to you, that we should warn you to WATCH OUT.”. Which words? But he also told me he couldn’t stand the idea of hurting me physically or emotionally and he sais that even if I let go, open up and trust him he would not hurt me on purpose. So when he said all this, which was at the beginning…what do I do? Think he means the opposite of what he is saying? He also told me just before meeting the first time ” you never know, I might have a dark side”. That in addition to ” you could be a sociopath trying to kill me while I peacefully sleep dreaming of something innocent”.

          3. LG says:

            PrincessSuperEmpaht – you say “hat is why HG and I and Renarde see signs from his WORDS and any other similar words addressed to you, that we should warn you to WATCH OUT”.

            Which words? why are they dangerous? or which signs?
            I asked Renarde in a separate reply to her why it stands out his dancing around the “love” word for her, why is that a black flag as she says?

    2. LG: `We all evolve with time, experience and knowledge. You too have the responsibility to evolve with all this knowledge, and remember, the Narcissists are evolving as well. Remember, the games must always be played with the Narcissists. And one of their main games is triangulation. You will be used to keep their other fuel supply on their toes. Your messages will be shown to them and everything else that you do so that you can be presented as a desperate stalker to magnify their value to all of their other supply: WARNING: Another thing that Narcissists are doing to up the triangulation trauma and enhance their facade of extreme desirability to their various supply is having Restraining Orders filed against old supply that refuse to leave them alone. I do not know what country you are from and where you currently reside, but a Restraining Order may hurt you tremendously, if it is put on your formal citizenry and police record. A narcissist that tells you it is over, and you persist may file a Restraining Order against you with the police. It is bad t have a Restraining Order on your profile. It may hurt you for applying for additional employment. It may hurt you to travel to other countries, that check for such records. You may be forbidden to own a firearm for your protection, if that ever is needed or desired. You may be prevented for ever working with or adopting or being around children in any manner. A potential future intimate partner may run a background check on you and discover that you have a Restraining Order for Stalking. You do not want all of this over these people that are bad for you, because you do not want to lose your `investment` in them. Cut your loses. It is okay to have both wins and losses in the game of life. I too do not like to lose. I have learned on this site, that We Must Cut Our Loses. And win the long game. It is okay to try to figure out Narcissism. And it may take all of your life, if ever, and that goes for many of us. However, if someone tells you they are done with you, leave them alone. even if they keep changing their minds. Because the games will be played and you will be on the receiving line of these games. At some point a Restraining Order or violence or even death is a possibility, if you keep trying to work things out with various people and various Narcissists. Get out on your own. If not, at least get out when they tell you to go away. You can not force anyone to be with you or love you. It is something that we all have to understand, at some point. The sooner we understand this, the safer we will be, okay?` ~~PSE

  13. Claire says:

    Thank you HG Tudor for another brilliant article! I must admit it so rare nowadays to meet ( even though online) such an erudite! It is a real pleasure to read your blog- learning and emporing for me. Honestly, I was worried and I was harsh on myself that I have narcissistic traits ( high self esteem based on my look and education). But reading your blog I realised that this is my defence weapon against the narcissistic exhusband and let call it a boyfriend. HG Tudor, please don’t be offended but somehow you remind me of Voland ( of course you know Bulgakov’s book “ Master and Margarita”. Voland helps her despite being the devil. Your brilliant work help us to nagivate into the dark souls of our spouses, boyfriends or girlfriends, parents, etc. No, I am sure you are very attractive so my comparison to Boland is only in terms of the mind. Thank you once again, dark angel. Yours truly , supernova empath

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are most welcome.

  14. fauxfur5 says:

    HG how are the empathic traits identified by your kind? i remember meeting my narc ex at the bar but what was it that drew him to me? I remember him telling me that he like the fact that I seemed quite shy when we first metl He also asked me a weird question months later which was’ If you were to walk into a bar on your own where would you stand? I said’ it depends if I knew anyone in there’…and he said ‘ I know’ How does this mark us out to a Narc? thanks

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Greaters through instinct and calculation. Lesser and Mid Range through instinct (note their instinct may not always be as reliable as they would unconsciously like).

      1. fauxfur5 says:

        i was dealing with a lesser..and I agree because he may have assumed I was a lot easier to manipulate than I actually was. How do lessers survive if their instincts aren’t as reliable as their targets?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          By lurching from appliance to appliance – haphazard employment history (if at all), haphazard romantic and familial relationships, few friends/shifting friendship groups. Upper Lessers bully/buy their fuel matrices so they have greater stability than LL or ML (but it is still not great – the Upper Lesser will hire and fire left,right and centre, multiple marriages, acquires and drops friends all around – best described as someone who can gain friends, romantic partners easily but has real trouble keeping them (either by disengaging them and/or escaping appliances).

          1. Dearest HG: Perfectly elucidated. I have seen of all of this. I just did not have a name for it all.

          2. MB says:

            I’m enjoying all the long answers HG! It’s a treat when you have the time and in a writing zone. So much great information.

          3. HG Tudor says:

            Thank you MB.

          4. NarcAngel says:

            Lurching and haphazard are most apt descriptors for a Lesser.

  15. MommyPino says:

    In my opinion this is one of HG’s best articles. One that resonates with so many of the victims. This one opened my eyes and gave me entry to a new dimension of my world where I see the players divided into groups based on empathic traits. I especially love the vivid imagery through the special glasses that detect empathic traits.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you.

      1. mommypino says:

        You’re welcome! And thank you for all of the knowledge that you share with us!

  16. Me says:

    Hi HG!
    Q for you…
    got contacted by yet another woman that he cheated on and then ghosted etc. She told me she had exposed him to all his ex. The emotional sea from 5 women was intense. He is now exposed.

    I know he is sick, have money issues, family problems and very little work. Seems that things caught up with him.
    What is to expect now? I’m in NC but not sure how to deal with the whole thing.
    His whole fake world collapsed yesterday … I guess most of them actually confronted him. I don’t want to break NC… come too far.

    Will he survive this? Is it the end for this sorry narc?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are not in no contact, you are still discussing the narcissist with other people (4th Finger of Engagement) and therefore this must be halted.
      You refer to knowing several matters about his current circumstances – presumably to know these matters you have spent time gathering information and/or talking about him and/or thinking about him. These are also forms of engagement and breaches of no contact.
      The other women confronted him – lashings of Challenge Fuel, this would not cause a collapse.

      You are not sure how to deal with the whole thing? Impose a proper no contact and GOSO and then you won’t be pondering these events further.

      1. Me says:

        Thank you. I was informed about it all from these women. I did not know it before. I was contacted and hope never to be contacted again by any new that will come.
        I will step up my regime now! GOSO!!!
        I’m in a good place in life and hope never ever to hear anything again.
        You are a gem!

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You are welcome and it is clear that logic is more prominent in your thinking as this shows in your response. You have fully embraced, understood and applied what I explained. You did not seek to excuse it, you did not argue the ins and outs of it with me but you understood what I explained and you will apply it. Logic Defences are activated!

          1. Lara says:

            Hello HG.

            I study astrology. And I realized that many of the narcissistic traits that you describe fit in the signs of Air (Gemini, Libra, Aquarius).

            The minor narcissist would be Gemini.
            The average narcissist would be Libra.
            And the major narcissist would be Aquarius.

            This is because the signs of Fire (Aries, Leo, Sagittarius), are direct and honest.

            The signs of Earth (Taurus, Virgo, Capricorn), are petty but they are reliable.

            And the signs of Water, are what you would call empathic (Cancer, Scorpio, Pisces).

            Obviously not everything is so simple, and there are other influences.

            I think the signs of Air (Geminis, Libra, Aquarius), fit into the narcissistic stereotype because they lack emotions, are very sociable but superficial, and unlike the signs of Fire, they are always in the clouds and never have direct answers.

            This is because the element Air is the element of social relations.

            Could not it be that what you call narcissism, are only astrological factors?

            I am a sign of Water, very empathetic, and I have suffered “narcissism”.

            Normally the signs of Water unbalance us totally with the signs of Air.

            Greetings HG, and I hope to receive an answer.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Hello Lara and welcome,

            The answer is no. I know narcissists in all of the starsigns.

          3. WhoCares says:

            Hi Lara,

            I was curious about your take on astrology and Narcissism…but after reading your comment; I’ll just state that my narcissist is Sagittarius and he is anything BUT direct and honest.
            Also, I’m Taurus but I am not petty.

          4. alexissmith2016 says:

            Awww the astrology interaction there actually made me smile and well up all at the same time and I don’t do that very often at all. Lara, I wish I could hold your hand and not let go. Please do stay on this site. xxx

          5. Lara says:

            HG, Thanks for the answer.
            I imagine that not everything is so simple, I just find it hard to understand that there really are people “soulless”, and I try to find other explanations, to understand what I have lived.
            My story is very delicate, and I wish I could contact you, so I can have your point of view.

            Is this possible?

            In short, I was adopted when I was 7 years old, and in my adoptive family really strange things have happened, which still disturb me, and I do not understand anything.
            I found certain answers in astrology, but I feel like there’s an unknown factor that escapes me.

            I’m very obsessed with this subject, because I have a Scorpio Moon, and Scorpio is the sign of obsession.

            WhoCares, The topic of astrology is very extensive, and the signs are only one basis.
            All signs have a positive part and a negative part.
            Taurus, on the positive side is stable, loyal, reliable, and very realistic, but on the negative side, it can be very petty..

            It all depends on life experiences, along with genetics, to determine whether the positive or negative part gains weight.

            Regarding your narcissist Sagittarius…
            Sagittarius is a free soul. It is the sign of travel, freedom, and the higher mind, and this gives rise to a philosophical or religious mind.

            Taurus and Sagittarius is not a good combination, they are totally opposite.

            I recommend you read this link, which may give you answers to your situation:

            The link is in Spanish, but you can translate it into your language.
            The link talks about the basic combination of Sagittarius and Taurus, the pros and cons of this relationship, and the article is by Linda Goodman.

            There are other factors such as the sign of the Moon, the Ascendant, Mercury, Venus, Mars, etc. So this issue isn’t that simple.

            Greetings, I hope I helped you.
            But as HG Tudor has said, it seems that narcissism is independent of astrology.

            alexissmith2016, I’m going to stay here a long time.
            You study astrology, too?

          6. HG Tudor says:

            You are welcome. You are a Truthseeker and this trait is seized on by your emotional thinking and takes you down the road of your astrology interest and uses this to blind you to logic. There is of course nothing wrong with taking an interest in astrology and if you enjoy doing so, good for you, however it should not be relied upon when dealing with our kind as you will be misled. That is not an attack against astrology, but a warning that relying on ANYTHING other than logic when it comes to our kind, is dangerous to your best interests.

          7. WhoCares says:

            Thank-you Lara for sharing that information and the link.

            Yes, I’m aware of the ‘conflict’ between various star signs and at one point, I recall thinking that perhaps that is why my ex and I would regularly ‘butt heads’ (both signs are horned) and would forever have ‘passion’ as result…

            I have never studied astrology but have knowledge of many personality theories and assessment tools (some based on science, some not)…none of them saved me from what I went through with my relationship or ever made sense of human nature in such a confirming way as what I have learned here.
            You’ve noted yourself that there is an “unknown factor” in your past familial experiences and a failure of astrology to address that gap in understanding.

            I suggest that you keep reading…

          8. Alexissmith2016 says:

            Lara, I don’t study astrology. I certainly used to be interested in it as a teenager. But lots of things have happened which don’t really fit. I’m pleased you’re going to stay. You’ll learn a lot x

      2. empath007 says:

        You couldn’t be more correct about not discussing the narc with other people… I made that mistake a few weeks ago. My first real slip up that way in almost a year… I’m human… I make mistakes, but even still doing it didn’t make me feel better at all. In fact, I felt much worse. Not saying a word actually gives me this incredible feeling of power I’ve never felt before. And trying to convince other people of the wrong doings only made me feel apprehensive in the end.

        I fell off the wagon but now I’m back on track. I’m not going to allow them to enter my conversations any more.

        1. Renarde says:

          WP cockwombling again. I cannot reply in train to the Astrology subsection.

          Lara – the occultist Dion Fortune has a section in one of her books, ‘Avalon of the Heart’ if I recall correctly, where she discusses the point that some humans appear to be ‘soul-less’ and gives reasons as to why that might be.

          I remember reading about it years ago. I only got the book out again fairly recently to discuss this matter with my partner. Fortune is bang on in some respects but she has largely fallen out of favour. Fortune was instrumental in the neo-pagan revival that has happened since the sixties in Glastonbury.

  17. empath007 says:

    Now that I know and understand all the language and behaviours that surround narcissism, I have looked back on my life and am pleasantly surprised about how little your kind has entered my life. Every time they did it was short lived because I find your kinds traits so frustrating I always just instinctually went no contact or grey rock with them.

    I’ve only dealt with 7 of your kind (which very clearly fit all the criteria for me to able to make that claim with complete certainty) out of those 7 only 3 actually seeke me out in attempts to destroy me.. and out of those 3 only 2 were romantic. The others were teachers (who idiolized me so it worked in my favour) or co workers who just happened to Work with me.

    This last romantic one really was the most traumatic though.

    I can’t tell you all how happy I am it’s over. And I can’t wait until it’s such a distant memory I won’t ever speak of again.

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