Why You Should Not Use Online Dating

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105 thoughts on “Why You Should Not Use Online Dating

  1. Cat says:

    The only empathic men I’ve ever dated, I have met at dinners and parties at a mutual friend’s house. Maybe one at work.

    Whenever a stranger has approached me on the street or in a shop just to ask me out, it has always every single time been a narcissist, as it later unfolded and turned out.

    This is to me further proof that only narcissists will approach me in online dating. As you say HG, it’s not my domain.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      And that is the application of logic.

    2. That’s a really good point Cat! I’ve had the same thoughts about guys as well as friends. Anytime where friendships have built up over a period of time from repeated interaction where you regularly meet either through uni or work or hobbies etc they have always been strong long lasting friendships with empathic friends. When females have approached me desperate to be my friend, flattering as it was, they have always turned out to be narcs. And like you say, male Ns will approach you bloody anywhere!

      1. Cat says:

        Thanks HG and Alexis

        I have reflected on this logic before but brushed it off:

        So when ppl approach a stranger on the street they are usually
        asking to get something.
        the correct time,
        asking for money,
        asking for sex,
        asking to borrow my phone.

        But when a stranger is asking for a date, then he wants to give me something (a relationship, dinner, maybe his whole future)? But wait a minute: A stranger approaching me to Give me something?

        Complete strangers don’t really do that for me.
        By way of inference.

        To have a 45 sec joke chat waiting for a bus, or commenting a book at library, yes, and that is the Only occasion a stranger (no mutual friends) nonnarc starts talking to me.

        1. alexissmith2016 says:

          I think this is what they often refer to as, “love at first sight” Cat. How romantic to meet someone in this way. oops erm nope! totally creepy and psychopathic!

          1. Violetta says:

            Now that I think about it, even when I was in Jr. High I didn’t “fall in love at first sight.” I might think someone was “really cute at first sight,” but it took repeated meetings for me to think it deserved the L word. Then I really wasn’t interested in anyone else for the rest of the year.

            As usual, I figured I must be weird in some way, because most of my friends got instant crushes lasting about a month until the next one. I also thought I was weird because they’d make out in front of everyone in the living room at a party, but I didn’t want anyone but us. Why couldn’t I be casual and cool like Normal People?

          2. alexissmith2016 says:

            Yes, I’ve never been the sort to fall in love at first sight either Violetta. But you do hear about it, and there has to be an N involved for sure!

            You’re not weird. Who wants to be cool and casual?

            I always wonder what American’s meant when they say make out. For years I thought they meant make love as in full sex! so there were ocassions it always seemed a bit inappropriate hahahaha I think it just means kissing? is that right? I do hope so!

          3. Violetta says:


            “Make out” means more than kissing, less than outright copulation.

            It used to be discussed in terms of baseball: 1st base was kissing, 2nd base was hands above waist, 3rd was hands below waist, a home run was copulation.

            Dry-fucking (grinding with clothes on) was considered somewhere before 3rd base.

            There were fairly strict unwritten rules for how far girls could go, depending on how long they’d been seeing the guy and whether they were going steady.

            The rule for guys was to go as far as possible, unless she was your friend’s sister. Guys with class would use an earlier stage to try to get the girl in the mood for a later stage. If they didn’t score, they at least got chances to do so on succeeding occasions, while learning all sorts of useful moves. If the girl had class, she would try to make sure he got some sort of satisfaction, either through hands or dry-fucking. (Extra points if you take off your jeans but leave on your underwear.)

            Guys with no class would try to get her drunk, stoned, use force, or most annoyingly, guilt-trip her: “I took you to the movies, I paid for your dinners, and you blah blah blah, I could go blind and lame,” etc. They rarely got a second date, even if they didn’t attempt outright rape, and they never understood why. Girls must be stuck-up frigid teases or something. (Anyone who was so ill-advised as to go all the way with one of these was NOT a stuck-up frigid tease; she was a whore.)

            In those faraway times, oral was considered farther than a home run, and not everybody would do it. Anal was unthinkable.

            Now oral and anal.are considered less than “all the way,” especially for sorority girls who want to preserve technical virginity. Campus speech codes mean you’re supposed to negotiate how far you’re going before you even have a chance to see if you like any of it, and neither males nor females have much incentive (or opportunity) to use foreplay as part of seduction.

            Despite the inroads feminism and some of the Free Love generation has made by the time I reached Jr High, many of these guidelines had obvious roots in the ’50s and earlier: the idea that girls had to draw the line; that girls who had casual sex were whores, but guys were the envy of all the other guys; that the process emphasized male desire and female restraint.

            Nevertheless, I think it gave us an autonomy that millennials do not have. We had time to discover what we liked and whom we liked to do it with. If one encounter was unpleasant or outright gross, another provided a basis for comparison: it didn’t have to be repellent. You could decide what you were ready to do based on something other than:
            a) everybody else is doing it;
            b) he said I looked like a Porn Star, which is a compliment, right?
            c) maybe I’m gay, at least till graduation;
            d) maybe I’m a-
            e) maybe I’m the wrong gender;
            f) I’m the Santa Barbara killer, and they’re all teases and whores who fuck everybody but me.

            Sex has gone according to the rules for the totalitarian ant society in TH White. Once it was Forbidden; now it’s Compulsory.

            Sorry for extended disquisition here.

          4. alexissmith2016 says:

            Blimey! That’s pretty complex. I mean it was the same in the UK too but I guess whilst there were unwritten rules. They weren’t quite so clearly laid out.

            Your comment about anal made me laugh Violetta! I remember there was one particular girl at school. She’d been dating a guy for a long while, a couple of years or so. Both not so classy. Anyway, rumour had it that he’d put it in her bum and all the girls were laughing about this because we all thought he must have made a mistake and didn’t know what he was doing. Hahaha how naive we all were. Looking back on it now, I bet he did, the dirty bugar! Way ahead of his time. Maybe he started the trend? As you say anal was totally unthinkable and unheard of back then.

            I feel desperately sorry for the millenials. It’s all so now, immediate. No build up to it at all. Anything goes and it’s all out on show. Nothing left to the imagination at all. Really sorry for them.

          5. Violetta says:

            Some of us had heard of anal, but figured it was a gay male thing.

      2. Kim e says:

        The one time I had a woman want to desperately be my friend ended up being a narc, but not the way we think about them here.
        I figured her out in time to not have very negative things happen to me.
        I followed my gut with that narc. Too bad I didn’t with my n

        1. alexissmith2016 says:

          Awww Kim e. Yes but its not always so obvious either and you’re here now.

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  3. T says:

    I see. Well at least there’s honesty. 🙂

  4. T says:

    Yes it is…..unfortunately…..which I have learned for myself and is also the reason I have been staying off of the meat market websites. It’s just hard so very hard for some people I guess especially in middle age to meet member of the opposite sex their age that are available. I’m not saying I have gone out of my way to meet men….I haven’t but with everyday life in the way…it’s hard. But I know you are right and I continue to resist the unnatural way to avoid the sharks. Yes being alone is 100 times better than being with an abuser of any kind. But being alone gets old…especially when a person knows they still have youth and still have a lot to offer and things going for themselves. I mean it’s not like I am getting any younger. There’s a lot of things that are hard to do when one is alone. A life partner would be nice and someone to live life with and the support of having a partner. Two together. But I’m really feeling that actually might not be in the cards for me….although I try to resist those kinds of thoughts. 😐

    1. Kiki says:

      I feel just like you T , yes it is very hard .
      Sometimes I think I don’t want to wake up in a few years and not have risked anything
      What can we do instead????


      1. T says:

        Good question? Pray? Lol…. maybe think positive…maybe make more of an effort to get out of our comfort zone and be more social…go more places…quit hiding ourselves from the world…I know I hide a lot without even realizing it.

  5. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

    Dearest HG: Re: Your observations on this subject of online dating I find to be one of your best explanations ever. And very timely. The psychological intent of the user, behind it all. How they attract sources and for what purposes. How they take take these photos and how they highlight certain things and hide certain things and create certain things using the photo alone, is illuminating and thought provoking. And, sort of behaviourally frightening.

    1. Lorelei says:

      Princess—I just can’t put pictures on a public platform for dating and personal info! I would die for someone to see it that I know! Omg! It feels creepy and I don’t want the intrusiveness.

      1. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

        Lorelei, Sure: But, If I did, I sure do know what would work, now. A Stunning photo of myself. So easy to set up an enticing profile I understand with a great photo or photos. HG says it is first about looks on the internet dating sites. But, still I do not want to do it. Plus, I do not like all the ping pong scheduling to meet, and being stood up, and the person being late and all that, that some of my past friends go through and some of their horror stories. Yes, Horror stories, plus all the fighting over whether to meet for coffee or to have someone pay for their dinner, and how people do not look like their photos, or use photos from 10 or 15 years ago, and repeatedly telling their life story, and how good dates still added up to them being ghosted, or stalked, and all the blocking and having to change their phone numbers, and fearing certain people would anonymously call their jobs and get them fired, and hiding out from people, or suffering to hear from people, and constantly sighing and checking their cell phones, and being physically grappled on dates and roughed up on dates, and going on dates and the guy says he forgot his wallet and things like that (I only have heard the female side of online dating though. I do not know about the male side), and so I was turned off by it all before trying it for myself. And I just got started on their complaints about online dates that I hear from people in my offline life. I did not even want a cell phone and never had one until last year when the Narcissist found out, (when one of his Lieutenants said to him, PSE does not have and never has had a cell phone), and the Narcississt told me to get one, in shocked disbelief, and I did so, and he was right that I should have one. It is good to have and I still pay for the service in addition to my landline phone service, that I did have all along. At least I can access Spotify on the cell phone now: The cell phone`s value has just increased. My desire to online date has just decreased, even more, if that is at all possible. HG really spells it all out so very well. It really seems to be very time consuming and time wasting and fake and more importantly, scary and dangerous in so many, many, many ways.

        1. Lorelei says:

          Understand.. Princess—I’m not even short on nice photos but it’s just an uneasiness having people look me over like a blouse in JC Penney. I don’t look my age at all, I am pleasant to look at—It’s just a yucky feeling. I can’t handle it. In fact, I’d rather meet someone when my legs aren’t shaved and I have no make up on. I have been objectified enough and I love looking nice—I just don’t want to feel like I’m in a catalog.

          1. Lorelei: No help from anyone is needed. Then we would be just like those somatic females that have all these men crying over them. These men say things like: She cheated on my with everybody, but I still love her. I came home and there was a man underneath the bed and one in the closet, but she did not know how they got there. She said she did not know who left the cigarette but in the ashtray or why there were 2 wine glasses on the table when I came home earlier from work than usual. She doesn’t know why she is being sent flowers and who keeps hanging up the phone. But, Oh I love her. Why is she not at work when I call, lately? Why is she not speaking to me. She is my soulmate, Lorelei. It is all so much to deal with on both sides of the divide. And, it takes a lot of energy. Both sides cry out. Why can’t we all just get along.

        2. Lorelei says:

          Oh if I ever would do it—I would pay HG to manage my “profile” and set up my entourages!

          1. Lorelei: If HG guided us, and helped with our photos and our word game, we would have men pledge their lives to us, without ever meeting us and telling us that they do not really care what we looked like in person and that they would take care of us even when we were quite old and close to death. I was once on a Major League Baseball site, not at all a dating site, that finally was closed down from commenting. A guy fell in love with me on that site and wanted to send me money to update all my technology and everything. My browsers kept going out of date on this same computer and I would be missing until I found out how to download browser after browser. I did not know what to do about this guy, and some readers mocked him all the time to stop being infatuated with me, but he was infatuated with me just from my posting about the baseball games, as a female. I am glad that the site closed down, and I did not have to break his unreal connection to me, somehow. He left his email and phone numbers and addresses and everything in front of everybody on that site, for me to contact him, and of course I did not. I am not joking. He was very intelligent and funny as well. He even gave his facebook, so I could see his photo and where he lived. He posted everything in front of everybody on that site in hopes that I would reach out to him. Something happened in his mind about me that was not real. He knew nothing about me nor even what I looked like. It was crazy. The site finally closed for commenting. I am quite sure he came out of that odd fog over time. However, I have no desire to hypnotize someone to want to be with me. Or, to lovebomb someone out of their mind. I have no desire to manipulate. I just want someone I can talk to and enjoy especially the little things with. That is the real test. And, for the feeling to be real on both sides.

          2. Lorelei says:

            Sounds like a weird guy. Hilarious thing is that I’m extremely somatic with men—I just don’t like the idea of being browsed upon. It’s a red flag to have someone enthralled with your appearance. Yet, it’s ok for me to do it!! Haha

          3. Lorelei: Regarding your being somatic for the men. I think that when certain women do not have to have a man provide for them, they do tend to be more somatic towards the men. Remember the movie Emma with Gwyneth Paltrow? She discussed how she could not marry and still have respect because she had a respectable income, etc. Of course, she fell to love in the end. But, basically she was saying that she had the luxury of choice. Women with choice tend to choose men more emotionally than logically. They have that `luxury` since they do not feel they need a man in order to eat a meal, or to clothe themselves or house themselves. I think there are pluses and minuses in both cases. I hear men complain now that they have to look better and dress better and be more interesting and more fit than they had to be in the good old days. And more older men try to compete more with the younger men, when before, if they had money, it was enough. And many women no longer want a man 15 to 20 years older than they are, just to have a certain lifestyle. They want the same lifestyle with a man closer to their own age, to grow older with. Now men say women want it all,and men are aggravated over this. I think I am more like you in that I am more somatic over men, and I do not want to be viewed that way. lol. Interesting. You and I would probably have a girl fight over the same guy! Please do not come to NYC and join any of the coed Softball Adult teams in the next few years please!!!!! Until I find my guy first, at least, and then make sure I am able to hide him from you. Thank you in advance.

          4. Lorelei says:

            Princess—I’ll be in New York this fall but there won’t be any softball! I agree with the statement re, the luxury of choice!

        3. strongerwendyme says:

          I couldn’t figure it out, but it just hit me! Your responses remind me of conversing with my mother.

  6. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

    Dearest HG: I never tried internet dating, however will you please elaborate a bit more on this statement you made about online dating, specifically regarding it is set up to fail: 2. It is an unnatural way to meet someone and it is set up to fail.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      The level of expectation from both parties is too high and unnatural.

      1. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

        Dearest HG: Wow! Thank you! I never want to use that platform then. I understand.

      2. T says:

        That could not be more TRUE! That is exactly what I experienced. It was like so great on the phone for months. He was the kindest and most interesting person. I felt like I had won the lottery. But then we MET! It was as if he was an alien and there was not even a faint reflection of the man I had been talking to. In fact he was the very opposite of that man. The let down was HUGE and painful! Not sure it was worth the HIGH before meeting. I stayed in denial though for quite awhile as I was already hooked. I even felt anxiety and started crying for some reason like later in the evening after we had met. I was really surprised at my emotional state. It’s like I knew I had been had. He also saw me cry and we just laid there on the bed me spewing tears all over him really. He said nothing and kept a blank stare to the sealing and didn’t ask me why or what was wrong. In some ways I think he knew. He was so freaking weird….! When I think about it now I should have just walked away then…but I was just so confused. Please be careful all….because it’s true….they really can hide themselves and fool you so easily. It’s not worth it. They have a keen sense of what you want and your dreams and they will lure you in with everything they learn about you. They are very methodical and very convincing. They will go to extremes to fool you. It’s a game to them…you are the challenge. And they want the prize. He was nothing but a perverted sick man. No personality….only thing he had going for him was his career. I suppose the personality he showed to me…was as HG said….MY personality….I fell for myself in him…insane! He’s a cold empty shell…barely human. A drainer of life. He is nothing. God forgive me I hate to feel that way about a human being but when I look at him I see nothing. I do not see a human. Not a man…just nothing. Have I wanted to save him? Yes!!!! Can I save him? Unfortunately NO! But if I could I would but I cannot. Ultimately I pity him. I really do. And I pity me for ever having met him. ONLINE!

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Thank you for sharing your experience T.

      3. Lorelei says:

        HG—you said the expectations of both parties can be too high.. I have to know! Have you ever met a woman whose photos proved to be “dated!?” Like 100 pounds outdated! It kinda cracks me up thinking of this.

        1. HG Tudor says:


          1. Lorelei says:

            HG—I could pee myself thinking of how funny this would be! Would you employ cognitive empathy or run like Forrest?

    2. Kiki says:

      Hi Princess
      I have tried it , I found myself in a situation where I am separated and now widowed my ex died quite young .
      Everyone in my social circle is married with kids or settled with a partner
      Well my options are limited very limited .
      Was it a disaster yes and no .
      Lots of guys just looking for s hook up , some are married, I never came across anyone really creepy but that is just me .
      Does it work , maybe for some it does but it’s hard and time consuming.
      Plus it’s costly , if you get dates well it costs to do yourself up and it might be a waste of time .
      I imagine it’s a hunting ground for narcs also but mostly you can weed through the jerks .
      It’s not ideal I wish more traditional methods were available to women 35 plus but it’s limited.
      Hg what are we to do ?


      1. Kiki: I am very sorry for your loss. You have to meet people normally. Especially if you have an energizing interest or 2. What are your interests that a male would enjoy. They enjoy most of everything really. I have a cute small studio apartment in NYC. I was thinking of having meet up groups for an interest that I had in novel writing. Maybe having 6-8 people over once or twice a month or so. And see who came by. Thrillers and mystery novels. Lots of men love to write in NYC. And, of course I would have female friends to balance it out and stay safe. And you can target your groups for a specific audience and number. But, I lost the desire to do the meetup group for some reason, after the Narc dynamic. Plus, I also lost the desire to write on the topic that was on my mind. So, the meet up is out of the question. So now I plan to join a softball league next summer for grown ups. Plenty of men and a sport that I enjoy playing. But, interests do help out. You just have to go back to your childhood and think of all the things you wanted to do. For example, many years ao, I joined a chess club to learn how to play chess as an adult, because I never got around to it growing up, and that place was full of men. Not my type though. Too overly cerebral: Some did not shower much for example. Out of balance too overly much. But, men all day and all ages and all walks of light were at that club. And polite and friendly. And I sort of can play chess now. But, you see what I am saying, Kiki? Interests can work for you. You do not have to be good at your interest either. Men love to show you, if you want help. You just have to know what all you like first. Just think about absolutely all of your interests! Even from your childhood. Then you can branch out and meet good guys and interesting guys that will share those interested with you. That is my plan after I recover more of my strength and enthusiasm. Right now, I need peace and stability and to not date. I am exhausted from what I went through. But, as I am slowly gaining strength, these are my thoughts on the matter of dating that will lead to a relationship, since I can not have one with HG Tudor. 🙂

        1. Kiki says:

          Hi Princess yes you are right , as you can see my interest was classical ballet, not many men in it as you can imagine .
          I am quite shy in crowds socially, I work well one to one or in small little groups.
          I’m not making excuses but I’m from a town in Ireland well it’s a city but your standards it would be called a street 😆
          Lots of teenagers, 20 somethings , separated or single men over 35 are like unicorns here.Divorce is still not common here despite becoming legal .
          Everything social here revolves around alcohol I’m serious .
          I’m insecure when I drink also it doesn’t suit me but the social pressure is intense.Also nothing worse than being the only sober one , and trust me the Irish can drink.
          Ugh guys with poor personal hygiene yuck no excuse no matter how brainy you are .

          I like feminine hobbies which doesn’t help .

          Thanks for your input
          I think I missed the relationship boat but you know what it has it’s advantages also except the no sex bit Lol


          1. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

            Kiki: Wow. That scene does not sound so promising. And if ballet is your only interest, it is tough unless you met a Patron of that art that fell in love you, or something. Maybe you can volunteer to make calls for fundraising and some Board of Director type of things, if you are not doing that already. Go at Ballet from the other side, and all that and meet a guy that is a ballet enthusiast. Maybe some readers can come up with some ideas for you. I am at a loss. Your situation is precisely why so many people do move. Small towns are very difficult unless new blood arrives. Or, at least move away a couple months a year with family, etc. Wow. You may want to move someday, as well. Do not come to NYC. The guys are a real drag here, mostly. If you come to the U.S., move to the more Southern States. The men are more charming.

  7. Dearest HG: The volume is extremely low here on Narcsite, for some reason, on the laptop. I am listening to this same recording on the Iphone right now via spotify and the volume is very good on the Iphone via Spotify. I just want you to know, in case you do not know about this. Thanks.

  8. E. B. says:

    This one would make an excellent podcast episode! I thought about this audio article when you started speaking about podcasts.

    1. MB says:

      Ha ha E.B. Check out Spotify!

      1. E. B. says:

        Yes, I was surprised to see it was already there! Ha ha – I am new to Spotify. Today I created an account and I am following his podcast.

        1. MB says:

          Same E.B., I signed up as soon as he posted it. I’m an Apple Music girl. What’s up with that playlist HG? You DO like the electronic sounds!

          1. HG Tudor says:

            That playlist is nothing to do with me, ignore it.

          2. MB says:

            You’ll need to have a talk with the minions over there at Spotify! I hope you will make one though. Add to the monstrous do to list.

  9. Shelf Fuel says:

    What is one supposed to do when they are socially anxious around others in person? And it is easier to interact online first? This audio article was very helpful, and HG your voice sounds hot AF…but this just reaffirms the fact that I am going to be pathetically single for the rest of my life.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you SF, why are you going to be single for the rest of your life? And if you are, better that than ensnared by our kind.

      1. Shelf Fuel: I also feel that I will be single for the rest of my life. I too will not do online dating. And I just feel like I am off kilter in this dimension. Like in that matrix movie where one sees too much of what’s really going on. I ehop people that do find a person that they can be in a healthy relationship with enjoy it. So many people on the planet, yet so few that one can logistically meet and then move on to relate to in a healthy and glad manner. I shall see if lightning strikes and it happens for me at some point that someone and I find each other. I am in no rush, at least.

      2. Shelf Fuel says:

        Why am I going to be single for the rest of my life? See the first question I asked about what can one do when they are socially anxious and it is easier to interact online with others rather than out in public? I don’t have many friends, just a small handful of close friends and they are all hours away in other states. It is hard to just…go out sometimes. Leaving the house is harder than it seems ya know? I feel so awkward in public around people I don’t know. It is easier for me to hide online behind my sarcasm and odd sense of humor and interact that way first before meeting others. I have debated with myself for a while whether I would ever use an online dating service (a coworker keeps telling me to make a Tinder profile and just hook up with people to forget Piano Boy, again sounds like a good idea even though I know it’s not)…after reading your article I’m not going to do that. Which just reaffirms the depressing reality of why I feel like I’ll be alone forever. I guess maybe that’s why I take Piano Boy and his crumbs. Anyway the purpose of my response to you was to not go off on a tangent and make excuses but rather just to answer your question of why I feel like I’ll be alone. So there you go…

        1. empath007 says:

          What’s so wrong with being alone?

          This whole notion that women are not complete without men is archaic.

          I miss intimacy from my narc as well. And I struggle a year after n/c still.

          However. I feel much more empowered knowing I am not enabling a narcissist to use me… maybe I’m just one woman out of his many but I am the only one completely cutting him out of my life and it’s a powerful feeling. I see it as one small step for women… one giant leap for empaths lol.

          You need to take control. And you need to go no contact. I gaurntee you in 3-4 months you will start to feel
          Better. And if you quit wasting your time with someone unavailable you won’t need on line dating because you will naturually meet people while doing other things then talking to/hanging out with the narc.

          Take control. This is your life.

          1. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

            empath007. However, it is not just a woman thing. Many men feel that they can not find woman they can relate to as well. Society in general just brushes it off when men say they fear they will remain alone.

          2. T says:

            That all sounds good…but like SF said….and pardon my French….that shit is not easy. Meeting people is NOT easy and if it was then there wouldn’t be 100 million websites for dating. I so get what SF is saying and I so can relate. And as far as your question of “what’s wrong with being alone”….well one could write a book about what’s wrong worth being alone. And I promise I speak from experience….much being alone. Thing is it doesn’t have anything to do with your looks because I find myself to be attractive and I’m good physical shape. I don’t look my age and for that I am eternally grateful. However even with those things on my side….meeting men is NOT easy. Anyways I’m with you SF….I’ll probably be alone the rest of my life. Especially because I am afraid of using online dating….which by the way….is where I met the last 2 narcs! 😭

          3. HG Tudor says:

            Steer clear of online dating.

            1. It is full of our kind.
            2. It is an unnatural way to meet someone and it is set up to fail.

          4. Lorelei says:

            HG—It feels kinda embarrassing for me to even upload pictures online to be browsed over! Ugh—I know it’s typical but it feels like way too exposed.

          5. empath007 says:

            Personally I think it’s easier to be alone then deal with abuse day in and out.

            I’m saying if these are the options… choose yourself.

            SF is in a good position compared to most to choose herself as she does not have children or is married to the narc (so no assests are involved)

            I do not think that makes her pain any less or the addictive nature of the dynamic any less. I wasn’t married to my narc either and it took me a year and 3 tries to leave.

            SF my concern for you is that you are coming on this sight with some of the best guidance in the world (HGs) and I continually see you ignore his guidance.

            I know it’s hard. I’ve been there trust me. And I get that you have to feel ready to an extent.

            But I hope you find the courage to do it.

            I don’t think you realize how WORTH it you are. And it’s not easy meeting people…
            No it’s not. But you’ll never meet someone staying entangled with this narc.

          6. Shelf Fuel says:

            “SF is in a good position compared to most to choose herself as she does not have children or is married to the narc (so no assests are involved)”

            I am divorced. I have 3 children from that marriage. No children with Piano Boy. I have been “fixed” (lol, I had a tubal ligation after my 3rd baby was born). I just wanted to clarify since half of that sentence was inaccurate as I do have children, just not with him.

          7. empath007 says:

            Thank you for correcting that.

            I am
            Glad they are not the narcs I can’t imagine how difficult custody is with one.

            All the more reason to get rid of the narc though… especially if you ever find he’s taking time and energy (in an unhealthy way) from you and your children and your busy lives.

        2. Lorelei says:

          Shelf Fuel—I have not done this but may for canoeing or some other outdoor things since my kids are returning to school this week.. Meet up groups. It’s an app and I glanced at it. I don’t want to meet someone for dating but it’s a much healthier venue than browsing dating profiles. The common interests are the ice breaker. It seems there are groups for many things. I don’t know much about online dating as we were together since 2002 until 2017 so it’s not something I’m overly exuberant about anyway. It seems kinda corny. Facebook has non nutcase groups too. I’m in one for women that like to travel, a theatre group..

          1. Shelf Fuel says:

            I am told I do not look my age either so I definitely have that going for me. I feel like I try too hard and I feel like I always crave and want what I will never have. Case in point, a friend (former coworker) came over for dinner this weekend. (not what you are thinking; he’s gay and his boyfriend came over with him, LOL). We will get together for dinner from time to time or I will go swimming and hang at the pool at his apartment complex. They both listen to my woes over Piano Boy and are determined to help me cut the ties. They keep telling me that I am beautiful and funny and a great cook, great baker (I bring them cookies all the time) and blah blah blah this and blah blah blah that, and that I can “have any dick I want”. I am smitten with this friend, it is no surprise. He knows it and finds it cute. But it comes down to me being drawn to what I cannot have. Story of my life I guess!

          2. Lorelei says:

            You would benefit from not talking about piano boy and talking about you and what is going to get you well shelf fuel.

          3. T says:

            Shelf Fuel,
            Yep you and me have a lot in common. Lol. So sorry. Yes it does seem that way doesn’t it. 🙁 we want what we can’t have. Almost like a self defeating kind of thing. I’m not exactly sure what causes that. I have often thought gay guys were hot and even had dreams about them being straight with me hahaha….I think it could also be about wanting to fix people or heal them in whatever way we perceive they are broken. Maybe. As an adolescent I always crushed on the boys who were unavailable and not interested in me. The ones who were interested in me…I ignored and was somewhat repulsed by lol. I know that sounds and probably is weird. I’m pretty sure I know there is something wrong with me too not just the narcissist. But in all honesty…I’m getting to the time in my life…call it maturity or straight up fear of aging and dying….or loneliness….where I really do want to be with someone committed. I stayed alone on purpose for 7 years. I did not date on purpose…no sex either…on purpose…! I had two kids to keep me busy so I stayed away from men after my divorce and just focused on my two children. That 7 years went by so fast and it felt so natural to be alone. But times are different now and kids are grown and now I’m like….ok….! Not real old but not super young….more wise I suppose….it’s just a weird place to be and most couples or even people my age are in this time with their partner and I am alone. So weird. Sorry to share so much but yeah. Definitely do not have time for heartless bastards….hahahaha! Ok that was a bit harsh sorry. Definitely do not have time for some guys just wanting to waste my time or hack me up which ever! I know I shouldn’t joke about this serious subject but yeah it’s harsh times! Scary times! But I suppose we must not let our fears make us jump on these dating websites and put ourselves at possible risk for more heartache. I’ve tried to be on those sites and when the men say hello beautiful….i want to gag…or when they start asking for sex text or bullshit like that….I’m just like please….then I start to just feel sick to my stomach and want off of the sites…I never last more than a Day. Oh and also I hate it when they come on saying…..”hun” or “dear”…..it really creeps me out! They all just creep me out!

          4. Shelf Fuel says:

            Don’t forget the never-ending dick pics. Ugh.

          5. T says:

            oh God! No! When I saw something like that…I immediately blocked! “BLOCK”….”hi beautiful”….BLOCK! “Hun….”dear”…..BLOCK….!!!! Penis…BLOCK! Lol Grown man in diaper? BLOCK!!! Haha! It’s so sad. Those must be the lower narcs….the lesser variety. But make no mistake…the higher Narcs can be just as nasty….they just hide it better at first.

          6. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

            Lorelei: What is it that you really love participating in???? I am not a natural gym person, but in such a tight, concrete, 4 season city, like NYC, the gym is the most dependable way to exercise. A couple of years ago, I considered joining a seasonal softball league in NYC for adults. I can play softball from my upbringing in the Midwest. But, they only have all male, or coed teams in NYC. No female only leagues, like in other states. Not enough women that have played team sports out here. The coed teams in NYC can ONLY have 2 females per team, and some other weird rules that I can not remember. This way I could meet a guy in the daylight, outdoors, that is reasonably athletic, interested in a sport that I enjoy, and played in high school and college, and I would have the advantage since there is a shortage of females for the coed league teams. And just imagine if I could actually hit the ball and catch the ball at times! The men would be so thankful and delighted to have me on their coed team. Just when I wanted to join a league, I was too late for that year in particular, and at the same time my admiration for the Narcissist was just about to go over the tipping point, unfortunately. Timing is everything. Sigh… I plan to join for next summer. Some cute guys are in those leagues and some wannabe professional athletes, as well, that could not cut it at a high level, when they tried in their past. And some guys reliving their glory days, are participating as well: All of that sounds fun to me! And it is a more natural way to meet people than internet stalking, so to speak. And everyone can see how everyone else really looks, while enjoying themselves.

          7. Lorelei says:

            Well first, I really like not laying on a couch drunk! Since that is over with let’s see.. What do I like to do?
            1. Not softball. I have played but it’s too stationary. I love basketball because it is fast.
            2. I love extreme physical challenges but I’m rehabbing a knee from overuse and I can’t climb now, although I’m able to do everything else. (I would like to do some intense climbs) I’m at the gym a lot and I have a trainer because I suck at weights on my own. He and I are really tight at this point.
            3. Theatre 100%
            4. Singing—I’m likely to perform with my daughter upcoming..
            5. Shopping
            6. My work—especially emergency psychiatric care and improving the experience for the staff. I’m embarking on a project for an academic medical center that I think will be highly lauded if I play my cards right. *The motivation is the money but the work has to be on target.
            7. Nice coffee shops with interesting people.
            ??—-I hate water parks and amusement parks. It’s hell.

          8. Lorelei says:

            Haha Princess! You inspired me to join a climbing group on meet up.. I can’t do it until I’m done rehabbing my knee but the group members look reasonably normal. There’s some other fun things and I’ll kill myself before I ever do a crafts or singles group though. I guarantee narcissists are all over the singles groups but the other stuff looks fun.

          9. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

            Lorelei: You could have a meetup group and have people come read a page or 2 of their Plays. Many playwrights are men. Maybe HG will turn up and you will not know it is him, but you will love when he reads a page or 2 of his play. You do not want to meet too many men that are play lovers, of course, as rumor has it that many are not into women. Also you do like running and hiking and all that. But guys love exotic locations that they can brag about. You can look up some exotic trekking while you are recovering to see what it is about and maybe schedule a vacation to hike or trek somewhere exotic. I dated a Dentist once. His friends were mostly generally MDs. He was normal with his own practice, but I hear bad stories on here about Medical Men. So, maybe do not mix business with pleasure with your new enterprise. I sunk myself for now, because I wanted to build a business with the Narcissist as the star, and he gaslighted me once, and I never brought the topic back up with him again and I am sure one day he will try to do it on his own, however, I never told him the full project, and he will not think of it, probably, and now I have removed myself from him, anyway. So, I am still undecided about that project, and I will probably have to start it all alone, since I lost my best friend and others as well, that I wanted to work with. What a mess. Be careful in mixing business and emotional entanglements, etc. I really messed up. But, vacation and exotic trekking and running would be great for you! And those type of guys will just adore you with all that great hair you have and those strong legs and you are not afraid to go outside and enjoy the light of day. I learned to cycle when I dated the Dentist, and my goodness, that activity is practically all men, and they travel a lot to cycle on the open roads and countryside and all that. I liked it enough to do it with him. See what I mean? That trekking and running seems to be the ticket. Just research it a bit more out of your comfort zone, if you have not done so. Now is the time to research it while you are healing.

          10. Lorelei says:

            Haha—my new enterprise! I have work to do before there is an enterprise! I’m keeping the phrase though. It’s been a good day aside from not eating before going to the gym and getting dizzy. (Embarrassing as fuck by the way.) I had a massage and the person named “Morgan” I scheduled with turned out to be a guy, not a girl! I hate men for massages but he was really good so getting naked wasn’t too bad. He’s going to some stone therapy and hot towels Thursday. (I’ve been having back spasms so I’m kinda stuck..)

        3. Kiki says:

          I can really relate to you Shelf fuel.
          I realise I am most likely not going to be in a relationship again but what I don’t want to live without is sex .
          I mean it can be depressing can’t it


          1. Shelf Fuel says:

            Kiki, yes, the lack of sex is definitely grating on me!

          2. empath007 says:

            I am in this group of single forever… but mourning my sex life haha.

    2. Bubbles 🍾 says:

      Dearest Shelf Fuel,
      I’m socially anxious at times my sweet, however, I put myself out there …. it makes you stronger to confront your fears
      Please do not interact online …. it’s a red flag
      You will not be single for the rest of your life …. that’s negative thinking
      Get out and enjoy life
      You do not need a man to to complete you
      Just go out with your friends and have some fun and “me” time
      It’s a start of a new beginning
      Please make the effort
      Hugs n Best wishes my lovely
      Luv Bubbles xx 😘

    3. FoolMe1Time says:

      You will not be single for the rest of your life. However if you knew what I knew, being single for the rest of your life is really not a bad idea. But that is another story, for another time. They say there is someone for everyone ( now I myself do not wholeheartedly believe this ) even HG himself has found someone who has caused him to change. Put yourself out there socially, the more you do, the more you will begin to feel comfortable being out there. You are beautiful inside and out! Don’t forget that sweetie. 🥰

      1. T says:

        Did you say….that HG has now found someone that has caused him to change? Holy Batman! Is it true HG ? Seriously? Wow!!!!! If so then I’m damn happy for you seriously. But yeah was just making sure I just read that correctly as it’s mind blowing.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          There has been no wholesale change.

        2. FoolMe1Time says:

          As much as I would like to give all of the credit to his beloved Queen, I cannot do that. It was HG who decided to change his dynamic and set out to find the one that would give him all he needs to make sure that this one, was truly the one.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Not entirely accurate, there is not a change to the dynamic, but a modification.

          2. FoolMe1Time says:

            It was a guarantee if I got it wrong you would correct me. Thanks

          3. HG Tudor says:

            Just like anybody else, FM1T. No problem.

          4. FoolMe1Time says:

            I thought modifying something was presenting a change HG. I also know when this modification was taking place, many used the word change. All that matters is that the original question was answered. Thank you.

          5. HG Tudor says:

            A modification might be viewed as a change, FM1T, but there are of course degrees of change and thus it is very slight. I do not want people to gain the impression there has been significant change because typically this results in people failing to actually grasp what is being written (driven by emotional thinking) and it damages work which has been done to educate people about the danger of ET and the necessity of driving it down and obeying logic.

          6. FoolMe1Time says:

            I understand HG. In the beginning people were assuming that if you could change, that the narcissist they were entangled with could also change. In fact I am sure there are still some that believe that. I understand why you prefer the word modify.

          7. HG Tudor says:

            No problem FM1T.

          8. empath007 says:

            Thanks for putting this HG. I have seen a few posts between you and readers where you were trying to defend your position calling them out saying “how do you know abuse will happen?” I thought it an odd response from you was going to point it out but thought it a wasted effort.

            Anyways thanks for this one as it seems more honest.

          9. strongerwendyme says:

            “I do not want people to gain the impression there has been significant change because typically this results in people failing to actually grasp what is being written (driven by emotional thinking) and it damages work which has been done to educate people”

            i.e. feeling gaslit about everything you have ever said.

          10. FoolMe1Time says:

            I understand what HG is trying to get across is that he can not change. He will always be a narcissist, even he himself was not sure if trying to modifying his behavior would work. He did not want people believing ( because of their ET ) that a narcissist could change and not be a narcissist any longer, that it is simply not possible. HG because of his intelligence and self awareness is able to take malicious behaviors he once used to gain control, power, and fuel, and modify that behavior to not be as malicious and damaging. He stands by what he tells us, GOSO is still the only way to go when you find out you are involved in a narcissistic relationship.
            I hope my comments to HG did not cause you doubt about him and the truth that he tells us. Because of confidentiality I cannot go into detail, but at this time I am reaching levels of understanding and healing by working with HG, at times this work causes my ET to sky rocket and there is a fight going on as to who will win, that being my ET and addiction or HG! I hope to God for my sake it will be HG! I hope this helps you in understanding the previous comments between HG and myself. 🙃

          11. HG Tudor says:

            Well started FM1T.

          12. FoolMe1Time says:

            I had my ET under control when I wrote that comment HG. You and the bond I have to you and your work is the one thing that will beat out my ET and addiction every time.

          13. strongerwendyme says:

            Hi FM1T, no worries. My comment had nothing to do with anything you said 🙂

          14. FoolMe1Time says:

            I just had to be certain. I would not ever want to contribute to something that would cause a reader to doubt HG or his work. 🥰

          15. T says:

            Reading what you have just said….gives me the impression that you actually resemble something of concern and protectiveness over the readers of your blog. Like a concern for the empathetics that have been scorned and scarred by narcissists. Maybe you are changing. Maybe you do care. That would be such a break through for you. I sense that it could be a logical kind of concern…but none the less…it could resemble progress couldn’t it? The fact that you don’t want your readers getting the idea that they could cure their narcissist and subjecting themselves to further misery. It sounds very mature and responsible of you to say what you said in response to the inquiries about your own personal situation with yourself and your prospect. It is also an honest looking thing as well. So could it be that you are being honest and responsibly concerned? If so then I would say that you are possibly changing to some degree. Sorry I know I’m not a licensed psychologist or anything. Maybe just an observation.

          16. HG Tudor says:

            Since my readers can comment here in a constructive manner and do so repeatedly and in a way they feel comfortable with, this makes my blog a superior forum. Since it is a superior forum to all of the others it reflects very well on me and allows my reach in terms of the transmission of information more effective. By providing the best information to people who want to learn (the vast majority who come here bar some troublemakers who are dealt with) this place thrives. By repeatedly giving people the right information for their circumstances, the quality of my work prevails and my aims are achieved. That is my modus operandi, do not mistake it for emotional empathy, I have none. I care about my work, this means the sensible readers benefit from my caring about my work. Win for all.

    4. MB says:

      SF, who isn’t socially awkward? Hint, it starts with an N. I actually feel kind of sorry for guys on the dating scene. Although I’m sure it’s changed somewhat over time, the pressure is still on them to be the one to approach, to initiate. A socially awkward seeming dude might actually be a good sign. If you see one confident and full of bravado, run! Remember the story of HGs empath brother? Totally socially awkward sweetheart. That girl was a fool.

      Ps. You are nowhere even close to ready to date. If you are serious about getting out there, book a consultation with HG. You and he can work together to formulate a plan to get you to freedom and living the life you are meant to live. I’m rooting for you girl!

    5. Presque Vu says:

      SF it’s ok to feel socially anxious. I don’t know about you but I find it quite endearing, there may be men who do too! Being single is GREAT!! Don’t be scared! It gives you time to travel, explore, learn, live and realise what YOU want. Piano Boy sounds utterly disgusting! Kiddo?? Really!! I can’t comment because my nex was… fucking not my usual type!! I got trapped by love too, just like you.

      When you are ready, you’ll let go. Or you will still be in this exact position when you are 70!
      That’s a crazy thought hey… you get to 70 and look back… the best years of your life you waited for something more from a man who had nothing to give you in the first place.

      Don’t get to 70 with regrets and random moments of shitty sex! Fuck that!! You are a very attractive woman!! Join a gym and get a FIT personal trainer, flirt with him, focus on him as you improve your physique and mental well being. Then ditch that kiddo motherfucker ASAP!
      He can’t have your hotness anymore.

      1. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

        Just do not fall in love with that personal trainer! It happens all the time. I signed up with a `hot` one, because I was pressured to do so for years at this one particular gym, and one day they had a huge sale on personal training, and I finally was lovebombed enough by the gym to finally say, ok. Fortunately he arrived on the second session like a dragged up vagabond, and I canceled the entire training package. And lost most of the nonrefundable money to the gym as as a consequence. Ouch. However, luck is usually in my favor even though it often does not feel so at the time. I may have dodged an emotional bullet by not training with that guy.

    6. lisk says:

      One option would be to work through the social anxiety, perhaps with the assistance of a therapist, and learn to get to know people–and let them get to know you–in person. The more you go the easy route, the more you stay in your fear and unknowing, the more vulnerable you remain to narcissistic manipulations.

      Of course, there are no guarantees, but if you don’t get out there into the real world, then you will have more of a chance of being “pathetically single” for the rest of your life than if you do get out there.

      The added bonus will be that you’ll be meeting real people, and learning much more about individuals that much more quickly and intensively. You’ll be better able to size them up, whether good or bad.

      1. NarcAngel says:

        That makes sense to me. Address the problem with self so that the only options are NOT having to stay single” or settling for abusers. Overcoming the problem with self opens up more options than just romantic ones also. Life is not meant to be lived in fantasy on a screen.

  10. Pingback: Why You Should Not Use Online Dating ⋆ NarcTopia
  11. Christopher Jackson says:

    Well I know why now thanks to hg

  12. susisorglos66 says:

    Because it’s a playground for Cheaters, Liars, Con-men and Psychopaths!!

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