Never Let Go



I was engaged in a discussion recently with Dr E. The conversation concerned relationships.

“So, when you end a relationship, tell me how do you feel about it?” he began as he unfolded his notebook and found a fresh page.

“I do not end my relationships,” I replied.

“I see, so they are always ended by the other person are they?” he asked.


He waited to see if I was going to say anything else but I remained silent. Come on Dr E, let’s see where you are going with this. You cannot outsmart me. He sat looking at me and I at him.

“Those answers suggest to me then that your relationships do not end.”

Give Dr E enough time and he always gets there.

“Exactly,” I answered.

“I see. We have discussed a number of relationships that you have and have had. With family members, acquaintances, friends and of course lovers. Now, from what you have explained to me I would certainly regard many of those relationships having come to an end, either by your doing or, though admittedly less often, at the hand of the other person.”

“Your concept of a relationship evidently differs from mine.”

“Please, expand on that point.”

“My relationships begin when I determine that they should begin,” I started to speak. Dr E frowned but said nothing. I could tell he wanted me to provide clarity to that assertion and I was happy to oblige.

“When I detect somebody who will prove of use to me then our relationship has already begun. It matters not whether we have spoken in person or even made any kind of contact. The decision that the relationship has begun rests with me.”

Dr E was making notes as I spoke.

” The nature of the relationship is defined by what use that person is to me in providing me with my fuel. If the fuel they provide is strong and potent then I will be spending a lot of time with that person, others less so. I dictate the pace at which the relationship will develop by such criteria that I understand people like you apply to relationships.”

“What criteria are those?” asked Dr E.

“Instances such as familiarity with one another, whether there is a hand shake or a kiss on greeting, the name by which we call one another, whether they can be relied on to provide information, whether they will lend money, whether we go to certain places together and how often, whether we live together, all of these things are what you measure a relationship by.”

“And do you regard those criteria as instances that ought to happen over a particular period of time?”

“No. They are all measurements by which I know people like you determine the nature of the relationship. I use them as markers by which the level of fuel can be influenced, accordingly, I will move them along at a pace which suits my demands for fuel.”

“But not according to anyone else’s input or say a generally accepted norm from society?”

“Well, the other person has to consent to the act, I mean, I haven’t imprisoned anyone in my home. Yet.” I smiled.

“But if they are to provide their consent surely that means the timescale is taken out of your hands?”

“Not at all. I just make them consent in accordance with my timescale,” I said.

“By exerting the influences you have described to me previously?”


Dr E remained silent as he continued to write.

“So you determine when the relationship begins and the pace at which it proceeds and this relationship never ends?”


“But some of the instances of your intimate relationships that you have described to me certainly fit with the concept that they have ended.”

“Not at all. If I have cast someone to one side because, as they always do, they have let me down in some way, then I will not let them walk away. They might think they have been able to do this. Indeed, in certain instances I encourage that train of thought so that the person’s defences remain down and thus they are susceptible to me resurrecting our interaction. Nobody leaves me and I do not leave anybody. They will always serve some kind of purpose, at some point and therefore there may be a pause in our interaction but there is never a cessation.”

“What if the other person decides they no longer wish to interact with you?”

“Why on earth would they think that?” I asked puzzled.

“Well, your treatment of many of them was harsh and unpleasant.”

“But no less than they deserved. People need to know their place and if they step outside of that they must be brought to heel.”

“Why?” asked Dr E.

“Because I gave them everything and each time they repay me by letting me down. That is unfair. Each time I give them the world, I really do doctor and no matter how wonderful I am to them they do not do enough in return and they let their affection become dull or they fail to provide me with the adoration that I deserve. It is wrong and they must be made to see how wrong they are punished for their transgressions.”

“So you maintain a relationship to punish the other person?”

“In part yes, but it is usually because they still prove of use to me and they have their debt to me to repay.”

“I see,” remarked Dr E and he continued with his writing.

“And when do they repay this debt?” he asked.

“That’s the problem doctor, ” I said with a sigh, ” they never do. That is why I never let them go.”


81 thoughts on “Never Let Go

  1. cogra002 says:

    I just dont know what to say to ebs it and go. It is not palatable to me to just block everything (like I did the 2 months I was no contact). If only there were a palatable way to end it so he would play with his other harem toys and leave me alone. Any way? Any parting words that will work?
    Silent treatment is commencing, so I have until Mon or Tues to detox, binge watch and read Narc stuff, etc. If I had the right departing comments maybe I could keep going Tues.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You do not need any departing comments. GOSO.

      1. cogra002 says:

        Do you feel he will know why? Without parting comments? This right here is where I’m stuck.
        He’s indicated that when I did exactly that last time it caused such injury, pain and suffering, that it makes me hesitant. Pain and suffering is not my goal, but escape is. He is in my professional world off and on and I dont want weirdness.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          It is irrelevant what he needs to know. It is all about what you know and once you know, you go.

          Use this also

          1. cogra002 says:

            THanks. I dont see him daily at work or anything. Professional conference only place we’ve been face to face. So I have another yr, but we know all the same professional people. I
            Iiterally hate that I allowed this to happen 2 yrs ago and didn’t read the signs. I’ve sidestepped 3 Narcs since with 0 problem. Just this one is problematic due to the trauma bond , I suppose

    2. empath007 says:

      Hello cogra,

      I know for me I would always crack after a month n/c. I would panic I would “loose him”
      Crave the initmacy etc.

      The last (and I’m praying to god final) time I left… when the cravings came I told myself I just have to focus on getting past this craving… just this one… then deal with the next one the same.

      I read and read and read to constantly remind myself I wouldn’t do myself any favours going back.

      It’s been a long journey… and I can even admit I have weak moments still. But it’s been over a year n/c for me and I am still in a sphere of influence. My next step is to cut that out as well. Then it will feel
      More official in my mind.

      You can do it. Just remember you only have to manage it one craving at a time. It gets easier.

      1. cogra002 says:

        THanks empath007. Thinking.
        I went NC 2 months, and yes, one craving at a time. I looked at social media , though. so it wasn’t a clean break, really. I dont look at his social media much now, so might be easier. I dunno.
        At least we’ll be no contact for 4 days, so I can detox and think.

  2. Kim e says:

    I know the ultimate goal for the victim is NC…GOSO. Working on it….again.
    In the long run, is there an advantage to the victim whether they escaped or were disengaged from?
    Does escaping or being disengaged from make a difference in the HEC?
    Your humble empath.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      If you are disengaged from the narcissist gives you a head start as, unless you are on the receiving end of a malice campaign (rare) the narcissist wants nothing to do with you. Thus you get a head start on no contact from the narcissist as he is less likely to hoover. The downside is that because you have been disengaged from YOU will be more likely to try to contact the narcissist, sit around dwelling, discussing with friends etc and heightening your ET that way.

      If you escape, you are less likely to try to approach the narcissist and possibly less likely to spend time thinking about the narcissist in terms of dwelling BUT you will be thinking about whether you will be hoovered and how and thus the form of thinking alters. Of course, subject to your position in the fuel matrix, the narcissist will want to exert control over you and combat the audacity of you escaping, thus the narcissist is more likely to try to hoover.

      1. Kim e says:

        Thanks HG. I think that whether I had escaped or been disengaged from, as I have been disengaged from and escaped before, being paranoid about being hoovered is a given for some time.
        Thanks for the explanation. And thanks for giving me the courage to have the “audacity” to try this again.

        1. cogra002 says:

          Kim you and I are right around the same place in trying to get away. If I’m successful, it will be escape 13. I have 4 days of silent treatment to think. Thank God for the silent treatment this holiday weekend.
          I’ll be binge watching/reading, in and around my own work.

          1. Kim e says:

            cogra002 Escape 13?!?!?! OMG. Fingers crossed for you and anything else that will cross.
            I am not sure if I am in a silent treatment of not. Maybe just shelved. Either way I am done.

        2. empath007 says:

          Kim e I remember the thread where you were so excited to see him. And we were all trying to convince you not to go to the non sexual dinner.

          I hope this time works better for you 🙂 I’ve been there… took me 3 serious attempts to break free.

          You can do it!

          1. Kim e says:

            empath007. Thanks. Dinner went great. Then 2 days later he hoovered me at my house. Then nothing. I am done waiting…for what????
            I have to move where I park my car to take my train to and from work or he will just drive the old lot and find me. So that new adventure started today. Not bad. New routine soon enough.
            Thanks for checking on me. By the way…no sex was had…..LOL

          2. empath007 says:

            Haha atta girl!

          3. cogra002 says:

            Kim E , thanks. I dont know yet what I’ll do

  3. empath007 says:

    So if you’d been an IPSS with a female greater…. she owns you? 🤔

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Wouldn’t happen so, no.

      1. empath007 says:

        I’ve seen you say in the comments section that you have had an IPSS that was a greater…
        When asked how it worked between you two your answer was “affectively” . I’m not like K I can’t search everything and to be perfectly honest I don’t care enough too. But you’re always giving me reminders of why I dumped my narc.
        The lies are constant.

        Annoying to think someone out there would have the audacity to think they own you though isn’t it? Lol.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Not a lie, you asked me if she would own me and I said that that would not happen, she would not own me, so my answer was accurate. The thing is, you do care, whereas I don’t. I extracted what i needed and since I’m untroubled by feelings of that nature i rejected any notion of ownership. You on the other hand do care, your repeated protestations about feelings yesterday shows you do care and also nearly proved my point. You’ll rail against the injustice, I cause the I justice and move on.

          1. Narc noob says:

            By *not owning you* the greater IPSS you speak of above, is this due to your narc perspective? I mean, do you think you own her and does she think likewise?

          2. HG Tudor says:


          3. Alexissmith2016 says:

            That is an amusing thought. Another greater believing they own you HG.

            I know greaters can detect other Ns, but with you being an Ultra, are they able to detect you?

          4. HG Tudor says:

            They know.

          5. empath007 says:

            But in her mind she owns you. Because that’s how she would think. You may be unbothered by it… but certian victims can be unbothered by it as well.

            There is nothing wrong with railing against injustice. If there weren’t people like me in the world women would still not have the right to vote, or access to birth control, or the right to work outside the home etc (you get my point) sometimes people have to stand together and say “this is wrong” but more important, act, in order to affect change. And likely there were a lot of narcissitic women in that group as well. Things never turn out perfectly. But do gooders and people who fight against injustice are necessary.

        2. K says:

          Hello empath007
          I found your comment on: In The Picture. HG’s perspective is different from ours and you may find it helpful if you try to look at it from his POV. He is the doer, not the done to. There are more comments between HG and Kel that you may want to read on the link for Consent.

          empath007 says:
          June 15, 2019 at 05:54
          Would you feel this way looking at a former partner who was also a narc? Or would the effect not be the same? Because you do not see them As “ a virgin empath” as you put it.

          HG Tudor says:
          June 15, 2019 at 16:53
          I have never had an IPPS who was a narcissist.

          The Greater 5 facts.

          Alexissmith2016 says:
          May 19, 2019 at 10:56

          Have you ever had a greater as an ipss? If so how many?

          HG Tudor says:
          June 16, 2019 at 10:28
          A couple.

          Alexissmith2016 says:
          June 17, 2019 at 00:34
          Interesting! How did that go?

          HG Tudor says:
          June 17, 2019 at 07:14

          kel says:
          February 20, 2019 at 17:18
          Would you ensnare another narcissist the same way you’d ensnare an empath?

          HG Tudor says:
          February 22, 2019 at 11:50
          Do you mean would I use the same approach to ensnare a narcissist as I would to ensnare an empath or do you mean do I ensnare a narcissist to occupy the same position in the fuel matrix as an empath.
          If the former, there are similarities but also differences. If you meant the latter, the answer is – it depends – I would never have a narcissist as an IPPS, but have done as NISS, IPSS and tertiary sources.

          1. empath007 says:

            The comment I was thinking of was the one between him and AlexisSmith where he answers “effectively” so thank you for finding it. There was no way I was going to be able too lol.

            K, you’ve been referred to as HGs secretary… is this true? Is this why you access all this information regularly. Or is it just a matter of understanding the search engine better?

          2. K says:

            My pleasure empath007
            It is very important to have clarity and I understand that because we are truth seekers.

            Ha ha ha…I have been referred to as: Official Archivist, librarian and secretary. IRL, I’m a volunteer librarian so I routinely search for books and information and it just comes naturally to me and I do understand the search engine fairly well. The more you search the easier it becomes.

          3. empath007 says:

            A natural gift indeed. So nice to have you here on the sight 🙂

            It would have taken me hours to find that small passage… and if HG would have denied it I would have had to reduce myself to saying

            “But it’s true 😭! I just can’t find it!” Hahahaha.

          4. K says:

            Thank you empath007
            I enjoy the sight and it’s very important that people get the help or answers they are looking for and, if I can facilitate that, I will.

            Ha ha ha…I will do my best to validate your reality. HG is very honest on the blog so you don’t have to worry about him using the First Line of Defence: denial.

  4. Chihuahuamum says:

    I really enjoy the sessions with Dr. E. He gets you talking HG and thinking on your narcissism. He starts off to not know certain things but i think he knew you regard relationships as never completely over and wanted to open the topic up. Also about the control.
    I had to laugh when he asked about what happens when they want to end it with you …why on earth would they do that 😄
    I know others dont like Dr. E but i think he knows about npd and sounds like a great doctor. He gets you to open up.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I am pleased you find them interesting CHM.

  5. Desirée says:

    “When I detect somebody who will prove of use to me then our relationship has already begun.” – that is an aspect of the narcisstic worldview I had not previously considered. It’s especially interesting given how a lot of female mid-rangers will play coy and act like they where unsure of you to begin with but your lovely personality has won them over (think Meghan Markles “I didn’t know much about him! Is he nice?” antics). Even a friend of mine would try to convince me of that when I told her that I really disliked and had a bad feeling about her at first (before she started mirroring me, that is).
    I always learn something new from your work, especially the things you’ve graciously shared from your talks with the good doctors. Thank you HG

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are welcome.

  6. aapzonderstaart says:

    I’d read about this before ,its all true ! My first girlfriend (30years ago) left me alone for 10 years and then started stalking me,infiltrating my life.
    She started to contact my surroundings, telling them i have a drinking problem lol ???? I DONT drink at all !! Some of her lieutenants had asked me if i wanted her back and i had answered, ”hell no !” So for the last 20 years i’m having this monkey on my back along with halve this town that she’d recruited .I must say i learned a lot about narcissism ,gang stalking as well as bullying for ”adults”.
    Only 2 years ago i found out there’s a personality issue behind all this. I started ti inform myself as well as my surroundings. I found out that i’m surrounded by narcs,really halve the enablers are narcs themselves,at least i woke them up lol
    My coping strategy is pretending this is all just a dream. When you know you’re dreaming you can stay calm and think about what to do next. It became an experiment within a dream, which i know i will never wake up from ! The lesson learned is that we should take much more care in raising our children, and adult children should not have any children themselves !

  7. WiserNow says:

    This is a fascinating article. The way it describes different perspectives about ‘relationships’ is very interesting. The behaviours or meanings behind the conversation between HG and Dr. E make the wheels spin in my empathic, truthseeking brain. It’s enough to bring on a headache… 😩

    Seriously though, it’s very well written, and it makes me see that ‘relationships’ can be formed in very different ways.

    All humans are biologically wired to need contact with others. We are social animals. Therefore, contact with others is necessary for our biological wellbeing. We need to protect ourselves as individuals (i.e selfish or narcissistic behaviours), and at the same time, we need to form reciprocal relationships that provide mutual benefits (i.e. collaborative or empathic behaviours).

    Narcissists and non-narcissists both ‘need’ relationships and have an instinctive need to ‘attach’ to others.

    In the case of narcissists, the way they attach is not as ‘person to person’ or with the aim to obtain mutual benefits. Narcissists unconsciously perceive themselves to be superior or ‘above’ others. To them, needing others is a weakness and they can’t tolerate the idea that they are weak, needy, or at fault, so the way they attach is through fuel.

    They need fuel instead of people, but the fuel is obtained FROM other people. This gives them the ability to be attached and still special or ‘better than’. Although they are in a ‘relationship’, they are still superior and entitled. They hold the power and are in control through the way they ‘attach’.

    For example, “Because I gave them everything and each time they repay me by letting me down. That is unfair. Each time I give them the world, I really do doctor and no matter how wonderful I am to them they do not do enough in return and they let their affection become dull or they fail to provide me with the adoration that I deserve.”

    The above comment shows that the narcissist is completely convinced of his own grandiosity, superiority and entitlement. In his mind, he is entitled to being adored and treated as special and the other person is in service of this and also has a neverending ‘debt’ to repay.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Correct, well stated WN. I do not expect readers to agree with me or like many of my behaviours, I understand that, we are different. I want you all to understand me and my kind and you demonstrate through your comments that you are understanding. That means you are seizing the power. HG approves.

      1. WiserNow says:

        Thank you very much HG. By reading your articles and making an effort to understand the meaning of what you’re saying, it helps a lot. I find that the more I read and contemplate – both your work as well as others – it feels like cognitive knowledge or ‘logic’ is slowly replacing my long-held emotional beliefs.

        It still sometimes blows my mind though, when I think about how narcissists are. I still find it difficult to truly accept that people can be like that, but I have a lot less wishful thinking now and I can recognise my own faulty thoughts more clearly.

        1. WiserNow says:

          …and also HG, thank you sincerely for your help. You assist many, many people to transform and improve their mental health and their lives. That in itself is a remarkable legacy, and one you should be genuinely proud of.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            You are welcome.

        2. K says:

          You are making excellent progress and I noticed it in your comment on The Desire to Destroy The Narcissist, as well. The logic here is superb and it won’t steer you wrong.

          1. WiserNow says:

            Thank you K – that is very kind of you to say. I always appreciate your encouragement and understanding. Being able to communicate here with people like you who are open-minded and supportive makes progress a lot easier. Many thanks again 🙂

          2. K says:

            My pleasure WiserNow
            Support and open-mindedness is key to understanding and moving forward. Plus, I like to think that all the smart people are on narcsite.

          3. WiserNow says:

            Your thinking is on point there K. Compared to many other blogs and forums, narcsite is unique. It’s more helpful than many others, with what HG provides and what all the commenters say and how they share their experiences.

          4. K says:

            Thank you WiserNow
            Narcsite is very unique and it’s always interesting to read about other people’s experiences on other blogs and forums because it makes me realize how good we have it here. A nonjudgmental and supportive environment that offers superior information is absolutely key to recovery and moving forward.

  8. Emextraordinaire says:

    SO absolutely true.

  9. WiserNow says:


    In the comments for a recent article, you said that President Jair Bolsonaro of Brazil is one of your kind. I agree with you, seeing that he has no conscience or empathy and would rather see the Amazon burning than to accept international help to stop the fires because he is ‘wounded’ by Emmanuel Macron’s description of him in a tweet.

    It would be fantastic if you posted an article about Bolsonaro in your “A Very…Narcissist” series on famous people. I think an article by you would greatly assist the general public to gain awareness of narcissism. The Amazon fires are in the media spotlight at the moment, so any ‘news’ on Bolsonaro would generate interest. Plus, it would also shine a light on the extent of damage that narcissists can do – damage that has a major effect on all living things.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you WN, I agree and if time permits me, I shall do so.

      1. WiserNow says:

        I know you’re very busy and an article like that takes time, so I understand it’s not always possible. I’m sure it would be very interesting as well as productive though.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I agree and I always appreciate readers making such suggestions.

    2. Desirée says:

      Jair Bolsonaro. A Very Fiery Narcissist.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Prize for you, well predicted.

        1. Desirée says:

          “Prize for you, well predicted.”
          I would like a bottle of Creed Aventus. In a gift box signed from you by hand and tied with a little black ribbon. Delivered by a Tiger strolling to my porch and letting me pet him before it raids the city, eating any narcissist that ever wronged me. Surely you can make that happen?

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Damn. I’m all out of black ribbon.

          2. Desirée says:

            “I am all out of black ribbon.”
            So…do what you always do? Take the white ones, paint them black!

          3. HG Tudor says:


          4. Desirée says:

            And I would like a card. Handwritten with that superior Mont Blanc pen of yours. “Dear Desirée, you’ve predicted correctly. You can see the future. You are a clever, eloquent, trilingual genius of excellent taste and magnificent beauty.” Frame it with fairy lights, please. I’ll hang it over my bed and look at it before I go to sleep every night. Since the tiger will be busy drinking the blood of my enemies, are there still some unicorns in the dungeon you could spare?

      2. WiserNow says:

        Yes Desiree – it’s a perfect title for Bolsonaro.

  10. Bibi says:

    HG, I don’t think I know enough about the backstory with regards to Dr. E and how you know he is a Mid Ranger. Given you are not a primary source, what signs did you notice? Did he ever behave in a narcissistic manner towards you? Or is there an article of yours that addresses this?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hello Bibi, there is not an explicit article. I know because of his behaviours, some of which are described in the various articles (and in articles in my books, those articles having not been published on the blog). I describe the behaviours but do not give a narrative on why they are narcissistic behaviours. This is something that may well be addressed in the books about The Good Doctors.

      1. Bibi says:

        That would be an interesting read simply because it would be a perspective of someone (you) who is not a primary source. I think it is important to learn that someone is a narcissist WITHOUT necessarily treating you badly 1st in order to identify it. As example, even though he is a Mid Ranger, he is still ‘A Good Doctor.’ Too often people will turn the other cheek when that person devalues others.

        One of the issues I have with explaining narcissism to people is that they will DENY that someone is a narcissist when that individual has not done anything nasty or devaluing towards THEM.

        There is an UMR at my job who many dislike and as one coworker said, ‘he is fake as fuck.’ Another left the company and said to me, ‘I’ll miss everyone here but UMR.’ Strong words.

        Yet that UMR is nice and schmoozy towards those who can advance his career and also those who put him on a pedestal. The other coworker of mine who puts UMR on a pedestal would deny UMR is a narcissist because UMR speaks to him and treats him ‘well’ (because he gives fuel).

        When I 1st started my job I did not think Cerebral UMR was a narcissist–it didn’t even cross my mind to think that b/c he was nice to me and complimented me all the time but then went cold when I wasn’t in intellectual awe of him. He just expects it. It’s like he wants everyone to feel envious of him, but when you’re not he resents you, or he just thinks you’re secretly envious of him. (This is just my feeling, as I have no idea what he really believes.)

      2. Lorelei says:

        But HG—won’t he see you think he is a mid-range narcissist?

        1. HG Tudor says:


          1. Lorelei says:

            He can’t read?

          2. HG Tudor says:

            He will not have read.

          3. Lorelei says:

            I am having one of my strange denial moments where I’m thinking this isn’t real, never happened. It’s bizarre that it still overcomes me.

          4. Bibi says:


            1) You have a beautiful name.
            2) Did you know there is a Sylvia Plath poem titled in your name?


            I wish I had a beautiful poem titled in my name. Bibi is not my real world name, obviously. I have a boring, American 1970s name, BUT I do wish I had a name like yours. Grand and glorious and written about by poets. 😀

      3. Desirée says:

        Lorelei: It was only a single comment of HG and I deduced that he is a mid-ranger from his profession and HG stating the he does not know what he is. HG once mentioned that they used to read more on his blog when he set it up but less so these days. I have know idea how that is even possible, given that they are professionals and should be most curious what their own patient no less has to say about the issue at hand. Although, it kind of makes sense why Dr. E would not read it and I don’t know much about Dr. O except that she seems to be quite low empathy. If there’s a book on the good doctors coming, I honestly can’t wait to read it

  11. bostongirl13 says:

    HG, I wonder if Dr. E is proving useful to you.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      He is although not in the way he thinks.

  12. smarinucci1970 says:


  13. mysteryeyes0120 says:

    Hello HG, I have been really loving your articles lately. In this one I must beg to differ on a few points. While as a narc you esteem that the relationship does not end ever and it begins when you want and continues until you have been disappointed (which is something inevitable at some point); I can tell you that I have ended most of my relationships including the one with my narc. I decided I was done with the badgering and I was over it. Without any explanation or “closure” needed. I literally fell of the planet and have never broken my no contact. I ended it and it was over because I decided that it was. So in effect, the relationship was ended by me leaving him no choice.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      But not in his mind, you still belong to him in his mind and thus the relationship is never over, that is the point to demonstrate this narcissistic mindset to you. You may have ended it, you may have imposed no contact (well done for doing so) but the point is we will never let go until either you die or we die, that is why you must maintain no contact.

      1. empath007 says:

        Even with DLSs?? I can only assume the number of women you’ve been with is large. There must be some that Get away for good… or would you Hoover a DLS if the criteria was met?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          If the criteria are met, the hoover will happen.

      2. Alexissmith2016 says:

        When Ns believe they own us, does that mean that if we are/were their IPSS that they also believe they own our husband (If we’re married), and/or any subsequent partners if were were single and then move on. Even if they have never met them?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          If someone enters our fuel matrix, we own them.

      3. Bibi says:

        This brings up an interesting question. Or perhaps questions. 1) Could the same be said about empaths, that you still belong to US because we still think of you?

        And 2) HG, given what you say with regards to still ‘belonging to you’, does this mean that narcissists will regularly check up on us online? I have zero contact with the Mid Ranger but I am fairly confident he still looks me up.

        Reason I ask is because for a while I have wanted to do a YT vid referencing your site but I have worried that discussing any examples with regards to him would give him fuel were he to see it.

        But then another part of me thinks I have a right to discuss what I want intellectually (detached and no emotion) and who cares what he thinks. In rereading your Mid Ranger article yesterday I was thinking of giving my thoughts on some examples from my experience (with full credit to you of course).

        I would of course send you the link. I am still mulling it over on what to do and how to approach. I don’t want a laundry list of, ‘Here are all the shitty things this person did to me, boo hoo.’ So hence I have been mulling it over carefully. I just don’t want to give him any fuel, were he to see it.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          1. When you think about us during the relationship, then in effect you do think we belong to you because there is an ongoing relationship.
          2. When you think about us after the relationship, you often (but not always) do so because you want us to belong to you again but we do not because we have disengaged from you, or you are now the shelf.
          3. If there is a Hoover Trigger and the HEC are met, that may well result in the narcissist checking up on you, online.

          1. Bibi says:

            Thank you, HG.

    2. cogra002 says:

      Mystery eyes, did u block everything or just stop answering messages, or what?

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