Stargazing With The Shieldmaiden
The Shieldmaiden and me journeyed into the countryside recently. It was a jamboree of navy blue, green and sky blue, with the magnificent countryside all around us. There was nobody to see and nobody to see us. The only sound was that of the beck rushing by our lodge and even that was muted when we rounded the bend from our sanctuary in the mountains.
The cloudless sky that had embraced an unseasonably warm day remain unblemished as night arrived. Following a satisfying dinner, The Shieldmaiden and me extinguished every electric light, lantern and candle at the lodge and then ventured outside as our eyes adjusted to the darkness. The moon was low to the east, having just ventured beyond the horizon and the tree line beneath it, its milky pallor not able to impact substantially on the cloak of darkness which now enveloped everything around us.
We stepped onto the extensive veranda which surrounds our lodge and then lay down on our backs side by side as we looked upwards to the wheeling heavens. The evening air was cool, but not frigid and all that could be heard was the gurgling of the beck a little distance away. The birds and animals had fallen silent and the harsh sound of humankind was absent from this haven. No horns, no engines, no sirens.
Silence.
As we lay there, the vastness of space loomed over us. The shimmering stars from light years away glinted and sparkled for us. Thousands of them, clear and visible, since not only were we free of the noise of humankind but we had been spared the polluting effect of thousands of streetlights and the glow cast from tens of thousands of windows by lamplight, screen glow and flashing neon. The night sky was untainted by the construct of humanity and instead hung over us as it has done for billions of years prior to our appearance.
The Shieldmaiden said nothing. I remained silent as I lay there and stared up at the sky. Ursa Major was immediately apparent and within it The Plough or as our transatlantic friends would label it, The Big Dipper. My eyes lowered and I looked upon the constellations of Leo and the Lynx which nestled beneath the large bear. As I turned my head I could see the Milky Way, like some stellar smear across the centre of the sky, ranging across nearly the whole of my field of vision as I looked across tens of thousands of light years of space from my vantage point on the top of this mountain.
I thought of how I was able to see all of this from my position on the rooftop of the region and that far away and far below me scurried the minions, the underlings and the tertiaries and how unaware they were of the brilliance and majesty which spiralled above them. I felt a sneer of contempt form on my lips as I contemplated the ignorant hordes who would be staring at pavement, turf and foam rather than lifting their heads and drinking in this vista. ´Twas ever thus. They always look the wrong way. That is why they never see me coming. Even those that broke with convention and rejected a lifetime of shoe-staring would only see a tiny fragment of what The Shieldmaiden and me were looking at. They would, if fortunate, see some of the stars, maybe a part of a constellation but their view would be obscured by the light pollution, ruining the spectacle and reinforcing the fact that they would go through life without true vision and clarity. My thoughts of their frustration and resentment if they were told of what they were missing caused that pulse of power as the Thought Fuel arrived, landing on the far more potent and plentiful Proximate Fuel which The Shieldmaiden had been providing throughout our visit.
“It is truly spectacular,” said the Shieldmaiden softly besides me. Her clear and elegant voice gently intruding into my contempt-filled thoughts and scattering them. The dispersal of those thoughts however was rapidly followed by that sharp shard of envy for she was commenting on the stars and heavens above, her fuel was directed elsewhere and whilst her tone was that of admiration and delight and her words appreciative, they were not aimed at me. This was a waste. Yet this was not the occasion to bridle with her, not at all. Her fuel needed to be mine, but I would not lash out, there was no need.
“Yes it is, absolutely majestic,” I replied as I readied my comment to draw fuel from her.
“And can you see Jupiter? Over there. Can you see that bright “star” that is Jupiter, to the south-west,” I explained and raised a hand, extending a finger pointing to the giant of our solar system.
“Where is it please?” she asked and I felt the flames of fuel rising again as her words of enquiry directed to me, because of me and I sat up.
“Sit between my legs,” I instructed and she too sat up and shuffled into position, her back pressing against my chest, the outside of her thighs, brushing against the inside of mine. I placed my chin on her shoulder, the light fragrance of her shampoo detectable from her long, blonde hair and I raised my arm around her.
“Follow my finger,” I said and waited as I pointed to Jupiter.
“Ah, yes I see it. I love how you know what is where in the sky, but you have always loved the stars and planets haven’t you?”
The positive fuel splashed over me.
“Oh yes, ” I confirmed edified by her validation of my direction and her remembrance of what I had told her previously.
I felt her lean back into me and I recognised that this once again signalled her ease and comfort with me. I felt the instinctive bristle against this closeness but the presence of her fuel enable it be surmounted and I allowed the contact to continue.
“And now, if you follow my finger, I will take you to Saturn,” I explained. She gave a short, warm laugh at my interplanetary finger and more fuel washed over me.
“You should bring your telescope next time, HG, so we can see the moons and rings,” she suggested.
“Absolutely,” I answered.
We both fell silent as I lowered my arm and she remained still, nestled between my legs and leaning against me. She moved slightly, as if to ease herself even closer to me and this act of affection caused once more the fuel to be mine. Her I sat, her god, presiding over the galaxy. Entirely apt.
“What do you feel when you look at this?” she asked me.
I did not answer immediately. This gave the impression of gravitas and due consideration to her question and was a useful collateral consequence of my pause. The fact was that my delay in replying was not borne of conveying such importance, although of course I would claim that it was, but it arose form my consideration as to what to tell her.
Should I substitute knowledge for feeling and allow the literary splendour of my educated mind to fill the gaps occasioned by what I am? Should I plug hole with adjectives and poetic observation? Should I address the chasm with the acquisition of the described feelings provided by others that I had heard, seen and read, claiming them as my own?
Or should I provide my reality?
Should I tell her that my feeling for the vista was as empty as the space between the stars that shone above us? Should I tell her that it was the minions that made me feel, even if only slightly?
Should I tell her that it was her that made me feel more than anything – namely power?
HG, have you gotten any negative fuel from SM yet?
Of course.
I thought the new dynamic entailed focusing on more positive fuel than negative. If so, was the provision of negative fuel caused intentionally?
The Shieldmaiden can express irritation that my argument succeeded over hers, say when discussing the comparative impact of The Thirty Years War with the impact of The Third Reich. Thus she provides negative fuel.
Thank you, HG. From the example provided, I deduct then that it was not triggered intentionally by you. I asked because my narc did try to get negative fuel from in that way intentionally. He didn’t even bother to mask his satisfaction when he noticed my irritation. The difference is that I was always right, but he didn’t care, he just liked to provoke me. I think you both are tied in the discussion, if you adopt the thesis some people suggest that WWI and WWII could be seen together as one single conflict, the “Second 30 Year War.” Both of them had horrendous repercussions, but the perspective could change if putting things in context. The 17th c. was very different from the 20th c. In my opinion, that discussion cannot be won, HG. But I love that your relationship with SM involves that sort of conversations!
You are not in a position to comment on it being tied since you have no idea what the nature of the discussion was with regard to the question of impact of those two conflicts.
Thank you for your kind observation about the nature of our conversations.
No, I’m not. It was an observation that there’s an alternate view of the second conflict, I wasn’t intending to emit a verdict of who was right or wrong. Excuse me if that’s the impression I gave.
You did give that impression by referring to it being a tie, SP. I note the clarification.
I appreciate your honesty, HG.
HG, can negative fuel be obtained from an appliance that is painted white? I’m having a bit of a memory lapse. Maybe I should have a review of ‘Fuel’.
Yes.
HG! What a post and look how you generated, mostly erroneous comments about SM! Not unexpected but fascinating. I love how people think.
OK, so on my travels I ‘might’ have become a bit of a known figure on TalkRadio. I’m known as ‘Squirting Ren’. My bad.
So, I’m thinking of emailing the presenter of the weekday evening 10-1 slot. Ian Reid. Good bloke. Switched on.
Now, I’m thinking of giving him my potted history. What I’m also going to ask him is if you wish to be interviewed. Talk about Depeche Mode, Bonsai trees, your legs… OK.. maybe it will be NPD.
You up for it? I’m game if you are?
HG ..I know you can spot when someone really isn’t an empath. I never ever come on here and challenge other empaths views or lives . I am not in their shoes . You have stated before that you know when a comment is more narcistic in nature. I only recognize a few on here that are empaths .
I got completely caught up in your description of the sky sounds beautiful and you write so well.
If she is truly empathic you should be able to tell her everything you feel or don’t
Thank you.
It’s nothing to do with her being empathic.
HG. Is it because the fuel of her admiration of you won’t be as potent …if she is to find out ?
No.
mollyb5
It’s all about the control. To read NCA’s comment in its entirety, it’s located on the thread below.
neverchangeamanda says:
September 19, 2019 at 03:00
So HG, I dare you. I dare you to give someone the chance to enter your world with full understanding of the deal they are making and maybe, just maybe, someone will surprise you.
HG Tudor says:
September 19, 2019 at 08:58
You cannot ever “jus be given it straight” because
1. The vast majority of narcissists do not know what they are, therefore they are incapable of doing as you request , or
2. This amounts to a transference of power which we would not engage in.
https://narcsite.com/2019/09/19/your-selfish-point-of-view-2/
K,
Thank you for this comment. It sheds light on this post. The “transference of power” that narcissists will not engage in makes sense. Yet, I am surprised (and also annoyed) at myself for my skewed thinking that was immediately idealistic and optimistic about the possibility of HG being ‘honest’ with the SM. Now, after a few days of thinking about it, my thoughts are… yeah, right. He’s a narcissist… it’s not going to happen without some sort of miracle.
My pleasure WiserNow,
Correct; we project our world view onto the narcissist and others, as well. Wishful thinking. In HG’s world he is doing what is necessary; he has no choice when you really think about it.
Control is paramount in their world; control guarantees fuel and supremacy which equals safety.
Then I don’t understand why you are hesitant to talk to her about it?
Veronique
He won’t talk with her about it because knowledge of what he is would impair his control.
Incorrect. But its a big risk. To literally ‘come out’.
In my possession is an email from the ex-GEN. He sent it to me after I have said ‘enough’. In it he said he that he’d never told anyone about his own true nature.
He implied, heavily, that he was on the verge of coming out. I wasn’t aware then. I know my leaving him was a heavy, heavy wound. Of course, from my perspective it wasn’t at all. I loved him so much and I continued to love him even after we had parted. I never went back to him. It was over.
Of course he appreciated this and therefore didn’t pursue that line.
If he had maybe it would have been different. If in 2014 I had known what I know now, well it would have been entirely different. I would very probably insisted on the second separation. Got my head together. I would have gone back to him.
Essentially, he spazzed our relationship of 18 years up the wall. I loved him so much. I thought we would grow old and die together.
What he did was take our children and abuse me through the family court system.
Now I’m here. If. If. If.
Now, it does not matter. I do not love him anymore. He’s hurt me too badly. There is no going back from that. Such a waste. His fault. Not mine.
They are adults now .
Young adult .
HG , you were writing about wanting a Narc child if you had one . If SM is a therapist ….and a sensitive soul she would make a very good mother. You will be very picky because of your money / family money if and when you make a baby. The SM is highly intelligent and you appreciate her for her attributes . She would be the one to take care of a child to the fullest. HG do you think this would make a logical step forward for you . I know I “shield” my children from harm of their fathers mean traits . Your children still may have empathetic filled brains , with narc traits in the important areas. HG ? What do you think of this assessment ?
She is not a therapist.
I did not state I wanted a child. I asked a hypothetical question MollyB5 that if I had to choose between normal or narcissist, which would I choose.
HG ? Is she the competition for something else ? Do you think your therapist wants you ?
Of course she does.
Lol …I guess this is typical Narc thinking ? The midrange told me the same of “our” mutual therapist. He thinks when she was continuously crossing her legs and wearing dresses that she was flashing him …or doing what he saw in the Sharon Stone movie . She was just testing his sexuality ….lol. I already knew she had an affair with another client. She is a manipulator ,too.
Projection ?
No.
mollyb5–
What is the difference between your midrange thinking that your mutual therapist is flashing him and her “just testing his sexuality?”
And with your knowing that you midrange is a narc, what is the point of being in therapy, especially with a manipulator as therapist?
Long ago …I escaped . I went to my therapist young in my 20s . Way before I met my second husband . He later went to her after I esacaped him . She called and asked me if it was alright that she see him as a client .
I did not know about narcism much then …let alone , know that my ex husband was one. I thought he was a bipolar / alcoholic . HG is who Iam talking to on here. I’ve been on here for years. I only want to talk to him . I can not answer these questions about my personal life unless it was a person who really was interested in my situation. If you are just making comments to cut me down.
Thank you for your response, mollyb5.
HG. Is she a doctor of psychiatry ?
No.
Yes you are right about just answering a question .
i think we all have masks. so i would not mention this to your gf. it could be weird I think it is more self awareness for you. That choosing to play games. You are not. That is huge. I think it’s more a personal thing to appreciate. what do you gain by telling her? I would more appreciate it for my spirit.
MollyB
What is the age of your children and how specifically do you think you are shielding them?
I won’t put all that info on here again . I described some in the past years on here. I don’t want anybody new thinking it’s a possibility.
HG., Perhaps, what I can empathically feel from reading this …is that you asked her back the same question ? You would gain fuel in her answer and gain traits from the feeling she describes for you and the universes . I think this would be the least amount of energy used by you because I bet you’re getting tired, and all feels right in your calmness
Why do you write that I am getting tired.
HG ..? Do you want me to tell you wha I sense ?
Sense? Are you spider man?
Don’t say that in front of Lorelei! Lorelei, I’m joking. I don’t kill spiders, that’s why they bite me.
Spider-sense detects danger ? Haha
Maybe I am …do you see my spider web pics on Instagram ?
No
HG , I sense with my spider senses that you are thinking of having a baby with your SM .
Well, I’d recommend never to rely on your spider senses.
Oh bull shit ;-).
No. Accuracy.
We could then add literal miracles to the list of your abilities HG.
They are on my CV
Of course! 🙌🏻
It’s miraculous that you manage all this so beautifully on your own while holding a day job and remaining anonymous. Also the brilliance of putting our natural addiction to narcissists to work not only to your benefit but to ours. Also fostering constructive conversation between not only you, the expert, but amongst each other is unique and incredibly healing. Although you don’t claim to be a healer, you do so indirectly by giving us tools to allow it to happen, as well as leading us to each other. There isn’t a lot of whining on this site as there is on the FB and other support groups. It’s more like college here, led by a professor.
You truly do perform miracles HG. I could get deeper but neither of us has time and you’ve heard it all before anyway.
Thank you.
You are welcome. I am pleased there is not the whining here either, it is pointless and unwelcome.
Yes. Although I am a hybrid savior, codependent, super, I have always hated whining. Acknowledging pain is one thing. There is a place for that. But at some point one has to get the eff up and do something about it. Straighten the crown and pick up the sword.
Cyn
You’re speaking my language.
That was incorrect, hybrid codependent, carrier, super.
NA you are a rockstar and I adore you.
I think HG posted somewhere that he has taken steps to make sure that will not happen.
mollyb5
If you have Confessions of a Narcissist, you may find the article, Self-Preservation, helpful regarding HG’s viewpoint on babies.
I think I read it,and will read again. HG is in a different relationship , and he is getting older , and sometimes people change their minds. And …..sometimes, it’s fun to throw stuff in the mix of conversations .
mollyb5
Ha ha ha…it is fun to throw things into the mix on occasion. This quote from Self-Preservation made me laugh:
“I am shuddering now as I write this, at the thought of losing out to some crying, eighteen inch long, puking and crapping machine. Disgusting.”
Based on HG’s recent comment below, I have inferred that he has not changed his mind regarding the eighteen inch puking machines (babies).
HG Tudor says:
September 21, 2019 at 15:21
To control. I’ve written about this in articles previously. They are an object to be used as and when the narcissist sees fit, I see no use for them so I’ve not had any
https://narcsite.com/2019/09/20/a-bowl-of-cherries-3/
Yes. But Narcs will “impregnate” for control and he will “act” totally different if he/ narc sees it benefits them in some way. My sister ( narc) use to put on a show that she hated animals . She thought they were gross and weird and she’d say things like “ what does it want from me ,aaaaaahhhh,” when a cat came near her. Now at age 64 she loves little dogs and has fostered some. She would never even pet an animal before. It benefits her personality now as an older woman and gives her more things to talk about to the men she still wants to attract. If it benefits a Narc in some way , they will see it differently and change their whole attitude so it will appear that way to others , that they just changed their mind. The more HG finds out about himself and the more situations and life events he can write about that he personally knows from experience the more he can explain and help others also. If he ever chooses to marry ..when it benefits him , if he makes a baby when it benefits him…and …he feels he gains control. So it still could happen …in my mind anyway.
mollyb5
Correct; narcissist will do whatever is necessary to secure The Prime Aims. Currently, it benefits your sister’s personality to love and foster dogs for facade, control and fuel. Pet ownership is a fabulous way to gather fuel from all sources. Anything is possible and HG will do whatever serves his purposes to secure his legacy.
A puking and crapping machine , that’s funny.
K
I believe HG wrote at some point that he has taken steps to endure that doesn’t happen, which indicates a firm and unchanging stance.
NarcAngel
Absolutely, and those necessary steps were detailed in the article: Self-Preservation.
It may be his view point but things can change …like going to therapy , and inheritances , who controls that inheritance and what they require or want to see for HG ? This is a blog …I’m just putting it out there it makes more comments …which can make HG more money. More interests in knowing …more selling of books . Right ?
K, do you listen to Spotify ?
mollyb5
Yes, I have listened to HG on Spotify.
I know HG. Utterly bonkers IMHO.
Bonkers. A great word.
As is kerfuffle. And noice.
I’ve never heard of a Beck! – northern English for a mountain stream.
Unless British is different on this, It’s the Shieldmaiden and “I” , not me. If you read the sentence without SM in it, you would just say I, not me.
“Bridle with her” is an interesting word to use, that you think that way, since you bridle a horse.
When she asks you what your thoughts are, I think she’s a truth seeker, and she’s curious to find out the mystery of what’s going on inside you. My guess is you sidetracked the question and didn’t answer it.
Beck was a new word for me too. I learn so much here!
Lol, me too! Words, narcissism, shampoos… and I still have to get started on my Zero Impact!!
Kel, you bought Zero Impact and haven’t listened?!? How can you stand it?
Chronic procrastinator but this is a priority today, hoping it also helps with things like procrastinating.
Good luck with that Kel!
Dearest MB,
Me toooooo and ….. coprolite 💩
🤣
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
I know the word beck. Plus ginnel, put ‘Door on t’snick’ Oh ‘Eee I’ll go t’foot of our stairs’. Also ‘You’ll ‘ave me in Dickies’ meadow.’ Wigan butty. Never pass on the stairs. ‘Put big light on’
Try the black pudding. Tripe is vile. Dirty.
Meat and potato pie is the nectar of the Gods.
Blackpool illuminations. Fish and chips. Pit brow lasses. Me-mawing. George Fornby.
Why we hate L’Pool. Reasons: Elevnty billion. Why we hate Yorkshire: Endless.
Shall I carry on?
Sadly there is no such thing as a softened devaluation
it might start out as soft, but we don’t see it–so the narc has to step it up and sharpen the edges.
You are a saviour for gracing us with insight into your thoughts. Thank you so much HG. I wouldn’t know in a million years, if not for your generous work.
The fantasy, love, beauty, tranquility I feel, I project it onto the narcs. You provide such valuable insight and you’ve been a saint to us. I am defenseless without you.
I’ve always been annoyed by your narcissistic doctor. He doesn’t deserve to hear your ideas HG. You are above him.
Seems to me that the Shieldmaiden was subconsciously or deliberately–or both–setting you up to make a Grand Declaration of Love under the stars, perhaps even a Big Proposal.
At least that’s what I once would have done in a similar situation. Certainly, that’s what Hollywood movies have taught me to do, and even to expect.
The script was meant to go something like this:
Big Question/Statement #1
SM: “It is truly spectacular,”
HG: “Ah, but not half as spectacular as you are, my darling.”
Big Question/Statement #2
SM:“Ah, yes I see it. I love how you know what is where in the sky, but you have always loved the stars and planets haven’t you?”
HG: “Yes, but not as much as I have come to love you.”
Big Question/Statement #3
SM: “You should bring your telescope next time, HG, so we can see the moons and rings.”
HG: “Absolutely.” [Nice work. You confirmed to her that there will be a next time. Who knows whether this is future faking? Oh, that’s right! You do.]
Big Question/Statment #4
SM: “What do you feel when you look at this?”
HG: “I feel a love for you that is larger than the universe.”
Perhaps your hesitation on the final question had to do with your unwillingness to go along with a script that is other than your own.
Regardless, I think I need a good dose of Rainer Werner Fassbinder right about now.
Interesting however she’s an Empath and this not instinctively manipulative,Lisa.
To clarify: This “setting up” s less about being manipulative and more about putting something out there in *hope* of hearing the response that one desires to hear or expects to hear based upon social expectations, say, those learned from Hollywood movies or from narratives shared with peers, etc.
Lisk that is brilliant 😀
Thinking
Kiki
SM: “What do you feel when you look at this?”
HG (telling PART of the truth): “When I’m with you, I feel I could conquer the world!”
I stayed up way too late and now I will go to sleep and have nightmares about Celine Dion.
You are not alone sis:)! I used to like Celine’s songs in French but my ex Narcs liked her songs in English.
Nowadays I switch off the radio when I hear Celine Dion or Queen playing.
I liked some of celines pop songs in the 90s but a lot of her songs are way too sappy. I cant handle slow sappy i feel depressed i need upbeat fast paced music! The worst sappy song is my heart will go on gawd i hate that song so much!!! When i went to see titanic
i broke down in tears over it.
And you know
That this song
Will go onnnnnnnnn….
I hate it passionately:)!
😂
Ha ha! Now I will too! You swine! x
Hi HG,
This place that you were with your girlfriend, looking at the stars sounds like the place that I lived at with my ex-boyfriend!
Where I lived, it was so DARK and there were SO MANY stars!!! It was beautiful, and I had a little balcony with my shell windchime on it. I lived in a beautiful park (but there were wandering packs of coyotes that made horrific screaming noises – they did not show up very often, but I was so glad to have that dog!)
.
The huge difference is that I was by myself because my ex-boyfriend was always working or had issues with his daughters, so his dog and I were friends. Rita and I enjoyed the sunsets on our walks, and then I would be alone, on the balcony, looking at the stars.
Unlike you, I do not know the constellations, so that is different, too.
I liked to go stand on that elevated balcony and listen to the wild things out there. Anyway, I was alone a lot and no one was asking me any questions!
We’re the horrific screaming noises not actually people being made to listen to Celine Dion?
HG why dont you like Celine Dion is it because she sings straight from the heart with emotions. What happens if SM would like to see her live would you still go? Or would you suggest seeing Adele instead lol?
I do not like her because she is overly dramatic, irritating and her songs are mawkish nonsense.
Lol ! Thanks for answering. She would give you great positive fuel though.
What is with Celine’s weight loss? She looks like a skeleton. She’s very defensive about it when people ask, concerned for her. I remember back when she got married and had the most ridiculous after-ceremony for the cameras, it was Michael Jackson-like. I’m not sure if she rode in on a camel or had ancient Egyptian slaves fanning her – I don’t know, I just remember it was looney and over the top and a bit insane, I guess grandiose.
I think celine dion has an eating disorder. Shes very much into the fashion world and many of the models are anorexic. I feel sorry for her bc i think she really shared a deep love with her husband and is still grieving over losing him. Its sad seeing the nasty comments on articles about her people poking fun at how awful she looks. I think shes not very happy in life or at least thats how it comes off.
Hehehe
I assumed that you put that in there for laughs!
Was I supposed to believe that you listen to Celine Dion?
HG,
It appears that either I or a minion put my message in the wrong place and it looks weird. Help! It was to answer you, now it looks like I am interjecting and insulting another conversation just under our little fun one..
Anyway, I do really miss the stars and sunsets. Would you want to live at that place you took your Shieldmaiden to?
We do live there, some of the time.
How long have you been a couple? (is it okay to ask?) It sounds like you get along pretty well, I guess. It is difficult for me to know from over here, and also there’s the thing that I have no idea who you are. I hope that you are happy and having fun!
Under a year. It is superior to “pretty well”.
Powerful post. It very much reminds me of my Narcx and me, when he would stand behind me with his arms crossed around me (pretty much locking me in) while we would be facing a pretty pond in a park or looking at a painting in a museum together.
In these cases, I always felt like this standing behind me was some kind of power pose of his, In those moments, I felt he was very aware of his power over me. These weren’t intimate moments (at the time, I thought they were but I felt they were not) especially as it was impossible for him to look into my eyes while in this pose. Though I could not see what he was looking at (another exercise of power), I felt he was looking out beyond me–master of me, master of all he surveyed–and imagining his powerful place in the world.
This is what I felt at the time. With the help of this article, this is what I know now.
Well that was a close call for SM. Have you bridled with her before, HG? How did it go? I hate Celine Dion too.
Wait and see.
Very interesting post HG. Wow, where do I start with sorting out my thoughts?!
The scene you have described is beautiful. Being alone with the Shieldmaiden after a lovely dinner, under the dark, cool, calm sky glittering with stars. Sitting together affectionately with her trusting you and you in a posture of protection and helpful, caring intelligence. Can it get any more romantic than that??
After picturing this scene, I would ask how on earth could any unknowing person suggest that you are a villain and the Shieldmaiden is the one responsible here for being either a victim or a volunteer? Just how?!?
But I digress…
Should you tell her the truth of what you really feel? That’s a hard one. My opinion is yes, you should.
I believe that honesty is the best policy, and that you may be surprised at what your own honesty will lead to.
In the scene that you have described, you are fuelled and feel powerful. There is no fear of the creature in your mind. You do not need extra fuel to maintain your construct. It is only the two of you without the need to impress or manipulate anyone else. The SM already trusts and admires you. Perhaps this is the ultimate situation with you being in your best state of mind for you to feel safe enough to be honest.
You don’t have to start out by answering the SM by saying, “well, actually I feel nothing but contempt for the poor fools in the city when I look at the stars because I’m a psychopath, and I feel powerful being with you because you’re my fuel source”.
You can introduce the subject in a much more subtle way that explains your emotions in a safe context. You could start by saying that being with the SM makes you feel happy and powerful. That her personality causes your emotions to react in a certain way and that the beauty of the scene moves you, but not in the typical way that most people are moved.
You are a Greater narcissist and you also have a way with words. From what you have told us, the SM is an intelligent, well-read and ‘brilliant’ woman. I don’t think that you being honest in a thoughtful way would lead to a disastrous conclusion. I think that it might even lead to a breakthrough for you in your own mind and feelings about yourself.
Thank you for your thoughtful observations WN, I found them interesting to read.
You’re very welcome HG.
HG, You write about SM as if she has only superficial thoughts in her head – kind of cartoonish in the sense of oversimplified. If she is as intelligent as you say she is, I cannot imagine that she doesn’t already know you are ‘different.’ Has she asked you in any way, shape or form what makes you tick? I don’t mean what you feel romantically, but how you think about the world, what matters to you, etc. Isn’t she at all curious?
I do not do so in the slightest.
You do not what? Write about her superficially? I think you do. Maybe not on IG but I am not on IG. Anyway, has she expressed any curiosity about what makes you tick? What sorts of questions has she asked you about your view of the world?
I do not. I have barely written about her and when I have done so it is not superficial.
OK I guess you are not going to answer my question.
SMH , He is protecting her identity. Sometimes people aren’t very nice in their assessments of her . They are really rude and childish on Instagram . HG – do you think this at all ?
I see envy exhibited from a small number with erroneous, incorrect and misplaced comments, yes. Many are curious, concerned and supportive . A small number show their true colours and did so when I first mentioned her. They showed no such concerns for her predecessor and yet acted with envy and petulance when The Shieldmaiden appeared.
Is that due to the type of people on Instagram ?
No.
“They showed no such concerns for her predecessor”
In fairness, HG, we didn’t see posts about her predecessor on IG. There would have been as much or more of an outpouring of empathy toward her and her well being too. Probably some harsh judgement of SM for being a DEMB as well.
The predecessor was mentioned on the blog. There was no outpouring of empathy, far from it.
I’m going to the archives. I might be awhile.
MB
Start on this thread.
HG Tudor says:
March 13, 2019 at 17:07
Goodness me, someone sparing a thought for K, who’d have thought it?! I actually do find it interesting A383 that you have made this point and it is to your credit that you do so.
https://narcsite.com/2019/03/08/when-will-i-be-hoover-free/
HG this May be a stupid question with an obvious answer but…. have you ever considered telling SM what you are if/when you break up with her? Just letting her know it’s not her fault you are not able To love in a way She understands?
Obviously the answer to
That’s is no… but it would be nice IG first therapy could help in that way.
As for the out pouring of empathy… it’s tough because you are theoretically in a “room” full of empaths who have been hurt deeply by one of your kind. It can Ben difficult to show any support towards abuse. So we can’t help but feel for her.
With that said. Your honesty on this site, Is truly commendable. It takes a lot of courage to do what you are doing here, and tell your story to the world to educate about a very misunderstood disorder. It’s a business that saves lives.
We just wish so badly there
Could be a cure. We cant help it. It’s our nature. And we can’t help but to want the best for SM… because she is one of us.
But thank you for
Your work. It’s truly one of the most important things we could have found.
Your first paragraph fails to explain the lack of concern exhibited by some towards the Shieldmaiden’s predecessor.
HG, I don’t want to sound rude, but I don’t understand why it should concern you that some people don’t care about her predecessor, when you’re the first one who doesn’t care about her. But if I am not mistaken, many people here who remember who she was asked about someone. And you always answered with “who?” I remember them mentioning how bad they felt for her, and not very long ago someone asked if you were using your pictures with SM also to punish someone, and you said “of course.” I arrived late to the blog and apparently, SM’s predecessor had already been discarded, but I know many people cared about her. My question is: are you trying to convey there’s a particular reason why people seem to be more opinionated about SM?
I will explain. It does not concern me, I am pointing out a degree of hypocrisy by a small number of individuals.
Certain individuals threw a hissy fit when The Shieldmaiden appeared because they believed they had some claim on me. However, they showed no such behaviour when Kim was on the scene. That is the point which is being made.
Because they can see SM but they couldn’t see Kim. And she happens to be blonde, apparently beautiful-one half of her face is, at least- and some people want to be with you, end of the story. There’s also some sort of common property idea, you are everyone’s narc in this community.
I’m there just for the travels, it’s fun to try to figure out where you are on every trip. But I guess you enjoy the jealousy, isn’t that fuel, HG?
It is a small dollop of low potency fuel. I find it more entertaining correcting them.
I can’t really comment on that because I hadn’t discovered your site yet at that time and wasn’t involved in any of those conversations. I don’t know who the predecessor was or how much info was given etc. Perhaps your site is gaining in followers therefore there more opinions being stated ? Perhaps she seems more special to you based on descriptions then the last woman? I’m not sure. It’s difficult for me to say because i don’t have a basis for comparison.
Oh I should also add. Likely one of the biggest reasons your readers are commenting more is because you have expressed on several occasions the dynamic is different with SM, and this is changing how you are interacting with her. Likely readers are feeling some mixed messages with those comments (even if it’s not your intent) but because empaths can feel so deeply saying those things to people who have been abused by a narc can bring up a different reaction… but once again I don’t know what mention of the golden period there was about her predecessor.
Empath007 , on Instagram women were competitive with SM . Making comments weird rude comments . They aren’t prowoman or empathetic comments. This is my personal thoughts . I think the type of people that look at the pictures on Instagram are more narcissistic . They go there to see pics …not read . They go their to buy fashion , makeup , and eat paleo recipes , and watch workout routines ;-). Lol. They like to make mean comments on people’s public posts . I’ve seen mean comments on the exercise videos too really on all the other sites I look at also , HG .
Correct Mollyb5, those who did so were in the minority, but they were there, borne, as I stated out of jealousy or failing to think before commenting by actually looking at evidence.
People can be cruel and quick to judge
The trolls as it were….
I’m not on IG. I’m young but remain a dinosaur when it comes to technology. And intend to keep it that way.
Yes, when we expose ourselves to the world negative comments or judgments are going to be cast upon us.
Evidence that SM is a DEMB?
I’ll never be able to find it. I suck, but I will try. You confirmed.
Hi MB, I remember that! I was in that thread and I remember asking HG if Shieldmaiden was aware that he was in a relationship when she was dating him. I was wondering if one would be considered a DEMB if one was completely innocent and unaware that there was an IPPS in the picture. But I’m sorry I also suck at finding old threads so I cannot help you. Hopefully K finds this.
What is DEMB? I keep seeing that…
Dirty Empath Marriage Breaker.
Thank you
Found it. I was not reading other comments in the thread so missed it.
Thank you.
I understand it must be annoying to have to respond to the same questions. But you could just say “already answered” which would take less effort then being sarcastic with me.
Empath007, I think HG meant the Beyoncé comment as a joke, not being sarcastic because of you asking the DEMB question. He’s the only one that can know and correct the misunderstanding. I can’t speak for him of course. I just saw that your feelings were hurt and to let you know that I didn’t witness that as the intent.
MB is correct.
HG I see you do have a sense humor. I have noticed a lot of Narcs do.
Ok. Thanks for clarifying.
My feelings weren’t hurt necessarily. I find that narcissits tend to like to always take the route of probing another person rather then getting straight to the point. They often do this and actually waste more of everyone’s time (on purpose) then just answer someone’s question.
It happened with narcs I worked with as well. In the time it would take them to bitch about something… they could have just done the thing. But they’d rather bitch.
I empathize that HG must get sick and tired of answering questions over and over (lord knows I would and probably not always act polite) but saying “already answered” would have taken less effort.
But all good 🤣 HG need not apologize. There’s nothing to apologize for. Its over.
Thanks though MB 🙂 you are a sweetheart.
TO add MB… Im the kind of person that doesn’t like having myself or others time wasted (especially… in matters of business)
I’m a “just get to the fucking point” kind of person…
Empath007
When I just get to the fucking point people have accused me of being too blunt. Can’t win. HG’s humour includes sarcasm on occasion. I don’t believe it was personal 007. It was intended for a laugh and he knew someone would come forth to answer as almost always happens. One day you’ll be explaining this to someone and laugh when you think back.
Accurate
Haha. I take myself pretty seriously NA 🤣 I cant help it it’s in my nature 🤣 and I hate it when narcs probe… I just do…. especially at the office….. like what’s that you’re complaining about? … ok how about you leave my office… stop complaining and go deal
With it 🤣
MB
I agree and commented before I saw you and HG had addressed it already.
MommyPino
I believe this is the comment.
mommypino says:
February 4, 2019 at 21:16
Shield maiden was an IPSS? HG, was she aware that she was an IPSS or did she think that you were single? If she was aware, would she still be considered as a DEMB even though you were not married to your former IPPS? Does DEMB include braking all kinds of romantic relationships?
https://narcsite.com/2019/01/30/why-is-the-narcissist-always-on-my-mind-6/comment-page-1/#comment-243449
With my A.M. clarity, I think I have it figured out. Kim was disengaged from and HG utilized his secondary sources (as he’s written that Greaters can do) until he was ready to crown SM.
Kim WAS the immediate predecessor to SM as IPPS, but there were other intimate partners (IPSSs) in between.
Well done.
IPSSs for 4-6 months?
I give up! I am trash at finding anything on this effing site.
The DEMB question was asked and HG confirmed yes. In fact, I think I’m the one that asked it! But if I can’t prove it, it didn’t happen, so I shall have to concede.
You’re incorrect. You formed the conclusion yourself.
What’s does DEMB stand for?
Don´t Ever Meet Beyonce.
… is that sarcasm?
Is that sarcasm (I do not see the previous comment in the moderation pane).
I was referring to your description of DEMB. Yourself and MB were having a conversation about how SM is a DEMB you asked for evidence of that… so I was just wanting to know what you were both referring too..: and thought your comment back to my original question may have been a joke.
To be accurate, empath007, I was having a conversation explaining that SM is not a DEMB.
Ok. I just don’t know what the acronym means. I was curious.
Lol. She’s a Virgo. Also a narc?
Yup
empath007
I checked the acronym article for DEMB and it wasn’t listed, however, if you type: DEMB in the search function located on the upper right, it should pull up the article: The Dirty Empath – Marriage Breaker.
https://narcsite.com/2019/08/17/acronyms-2/
It is there, you are going to the old article rather than the current page in the menu bar.
Thank you HG and noted; I found it under Formal Info.
You are welcome, K.
HG—I have not noticed the rude comments. I’m just pleased that you appear to talking honestly about a pro-social approach with this dynamic. I hate to think of the failure associated with tarnishing your work eventually if you didn’t try. In a way aren’t we all embarking on new dynamics? I’m desperately trying to steer from the lions den. This is uncharted territory for me. To look at who I’m drawn to and replace thoughts with “he is disordered” is a huge obstacle. For you not to flinch away—an obstacle.
They are outnumbered by the positive and pleasant comments, but there are a number of incorrect comments made based on jealousy and/or not thinking.
Embracing jealousy as a motivator is a concept worthy of discussion. You wanna look better? Get your ass to the gym. You wanna look better? Figure out how. (Lots of excellent drug store products) Wanna be more interesting? The library is free. I’ll never forget how hurt I was in particular growing up by my classmate Jill. Every accomplishment she stormed off. Jealousy hurts and accomplishes nothing, it breeds discontentment. I am admittedly very imperfect a lot—but this is a good reminder today. **Do not be an asshole today.
Jeaulous is awful thing. HG you dont have to share your personal life with us but you do. Thankyou for that !
Does SM like animals ?
She is not particularly interested in them. She finds them adorable on screen, i.e. where they cannot make a mess in the house.
Fair enough not everyone likes them in the house. Mind you they are a big responsibility just like having a child but both worth it .
HG
Re: Incorrect and jealous comments.
Yes, I imagine it is a bit annoying for you to have to correct and dispel with the projection of others. Forgive me for finding humour in the irony.
Understood, of course, it is part of the education by ensuring people look at the evidence rather than basing it on perception.
Hi Mollyb5, I do know he is protecting her identity and I heartily approve! I looked at the IG before he made it private but that was awhile ago now so I wasn’t sure if he was posting more about her on IG than he was here. I am not curious about who she is at all. Just about their dynamic, and particularly about the kinds of things she might have asked him about his thoughts, feelings, behaviours, etc.
HG, some of us did – sorry couldn’t resist.
Mar 13, 2019
Goodness me, someone sparing a thought for K, who’d have thought it?! I actually do find it interesting A383 that you have made this point and it is to your credit that you do so.
HG, do tell, has Kim been hoovered yet ? x
x
No
HG, who was the predecessor to SM?
Kim, but she was not an immediate predecessor
MB
You asked this question on: https://narcsite.com/2019/01/30/why-is-the-narcissist-always-on-my-mind-6/comment-page-1/#comment-243449
MB says:
February 4, 2019 at 13:30
She’s a DEMB.
MB reached that conclusion. I did not state she was a DEMB. The conclusion was erroneous . I’m sure you can readily work out why.
HG
Correct; I noticed that you did not state that SM was a DEMB. This is a New Dynamic and you are operating in a pro social manner so, based on the information that I read, I inferred that you had broken up with Kim before becoming intimate with your girlfriend (SM).
Correct.
There was a failure to pay heed to the evidence. MB made an (understandable – mistaken recollection and an assumption that there will have been a relationship overlap as there often is such an overlap with our kind) but missed the evidence in this instance.
HG
Although I don’t comment on your ex-girlfriends (except for Lesley a.k.a. It Girl), I do think of them, especially when the articles are about them, and I feel loss, sadness and compassion for all of them, except Lesley. I often wonder how they are doing and I think about your ex-wife, as well.
Sometimes the sadness is overwhelming, so I don’t articulate it. I imagine that Kim must have been heartbroken when you disengaged. Absolutely devastated. We are far more familiar with SM and, God forbid, if your relationship doesn’t go as planned (from my POV), my heart will break for her.
MB, K, Is the disconnect because she was not a Dirty Empath Marriage Breaker, but perhaps an IPSS while a girlfriend was in devaluation? She may not even have been aware of the IPPS.
FYC
That’s what I wondered, but I also think she has to have been made aware since and wonder how she reconciled that when she found out.
I think the disconnect was that IPSS was included in the question by MB, and was not disputed directly at the time. It appears the new dynamic actually won the day, as HG confirmed elsewhere the SM was not an intimate partner, prior to disengagement of the former IPPS.
She was not? Omg I’m so confused. IPSSs of the world, I salute you! Stay strong my sisters!
HG decisively says not. But do not worry, SP, no-one (I hope) is judging any IPSS. If they are, it says more about them than you. There is no one alive that has not made any mistakes where Ns are concerned. You are wonderful. Never doubt that.
Thank you, FYC. I don’t feel judged by anyone here, don’t worry. I just recently confirmed I was my narc’s SIPSS and therefore arranged a consultation with HG, because, as he mentions in some other comment, we are always in danger of being hoovered and taken off the shelf. I’m resisting so far but my ET has strange highs and strange lows. I didn’t know many things about SM, apparently. I was under the impression she was IPPS and the new dynamic was exempt from triangulations and secondary sources, guess I was wrong.
SP, quite true about the hoovering. Very happy to hear you are resisting. Emotions are fluid so there will always be highs and lows, but that is okay so long as your LT is firm.
From what HG has said so far on other comments, the SM is HG’s IPPS (sole source) and due to practicing the new dynamic, he does not have intimate partners of a secondary source (they remain shelved or if he engages it is in a NISS way). HG, please correct me if I am wrong.
Dirty empath or not, you are magnificent and beautiful and highly intelligent SP. Anybody would be extremely lucky to get your attention, narc or not. 😘
You guys made me cry. Shut up now! 😘😘😘
Haha! There goes the sweet and spicy 🌶! 🥰😘😘😘😘
FYC
I’ll be honest, it’s really stretching the limits of my belief but I’m going with it for now.
Fair enough, NA. If you think about his grand design though, it was likely in his favor to take such an approach.
FYC
Do you care to expand on that angle? I’d like to consider it.
Hi NA, I will expand on my thoughts. I’ll locate a few quotes first and get back to you.
Hi NA, I promised you a response with quotes, but unfortunately, I have not been able to find what I seek. Therefore I will risk inaccuracy, and apologize to all involved should I offend. Note, my suppositions include assumptions since I do not know HG nor the facts of the matter IRL.
Paraphrase of what has been commented upon to date: HG has stated he has a grand design, but not its details. HG has stated he seeks to overcome Matrinarcs efforts to effect control over him. HG agreed to participation in therapy with the good doctors to preserve his grand design in part or in full. The good doctors have suggested HG engage in prosocial behavior. HG became involved with the SM and from all available appearances/information he is maintaining prosocial behavior thus far.
Given the above, how would it serve HG’s desire for control of every element (perception and facts) to behave as expected by those who might foil his plans? I am sure his real life detractor(s) would anticipate failure, claiming validation of their views, assume dominance and exert further control. HG is very aware and intelligent and would not fall prey to such expectations. HG has stated he was maintained in fuel (intimately) by secondary sources *prior* to the SM becoming his IPPS. To me this makes sense. Why risk exposure? HG has found a lovely extension of himself via the beautiful, intelligent and successful SM. She will no doubt assist in his Grand Design.
I would not be surprised if malice might leak out elsewhere (like the V-Day example). HG has stated there is no hope for wholesale change. But it seems like for now, bad behavior with a key figure in his grand design is unlikely. HG has his eyes on a big prize that will ensure his legacy.
Then again, I could be completely off the mark, but that was where my comment was coming from. Would love to hear your thoughts Narc Angel.
FYC
Interesting. Thank you for expanding. I have had no doubt since the appearance of SM that she would play a role in HG’s grand design. What I wondered initially however was whether she was promoted to IPPS for her traits and residual benefits in assisting specifically with that goal in mind, or if he actually chose her with the intent being to commit to a new dynamic utilizing prosocial behaviour, with her involvement in the grand design secondary. With regard to him not being intimate with SM prior to becoming IPPS, who could really know the truth besides himself? so how could that have any bearing on his prosocial behaviour being deemed successful or not by the good doctors (or anyone else for that matter). It would not be a positive thing (in my opinion) if he was not intimate with her solely for the purpose of placing her on a higher pedestal than usual under the illusion of her being more “pure” than others. That I consider a delusion and would only result in disappointment, failure, and eventual devalue (again, my unqualified opinion). There is also the issue of what he deems intimate (I am reminded of Bill Clinton adamant that he “did not have sexual relations with that woman” haha).
He can’t really lose either way. He is currently enjoying the company of what by his account is a lovely, intelligent, successful woman who provides excellent fuel and provides the residual benefits he requires. If those benefits include her assisting him in achieving success with his grand design then all the better for him. If prosocial behaviour on his part has been seriously taken on board and he is able to deal with his malice in some other way, and if it allows SM to feel that she is in a relationship that feels satisfying and allows her to thrive, then good for them.
Meanwhile…I observe.
NA…….I just have a sinking feeling the bottomis going to fall out for SM. I can not and have not really followed the thread as if history repeats itslef they way it normally does in narcville, she is doomed. It is like watch a car wreck.
K, First…How in the fuck did you find that?
Second, thank you for doing so. I’m not crazy, I just connected some dots with a blurry line.
Third, I did draw an erroneous conclusion. HGs penchant for correction of inaccuracy led me astray in this instance. It was an assumption and not corrected so my brain logged it as confirmed and I couldn’t even remember how I “knew”. I apologize for getting everybody stirred up and I apologize to The Shieldmaiden whoever she may be. It is a serious accusation.
I’m in some serious awe over K’s researching. Girlfriend has super powers!! My fuzzy line has been erased.
My pleasure MB,
Ha ha ha…the magic is in the fingers. Actually, that comment is in my apple notes, alphabetized under: New Dynamic.
You are not crazy; there’s lots of information here and it isn’t always easy to keep track of it. If I can help clear up fuzzy lines by searching for comments to provide clarity, then I am on it.
Memory is fickle and tricks us sometimes. Mistakes happen and no serious harm was done in this instance and don’t worry about stirring things up; it keeps us on our toes like Cluedo.
What happened with Kim?
When is the Asylum of the Grotesque coming out?
Who was the immediate predecessor to SM and what happened with her?
1. She was disengaged from.
2. When I finish it.
3. The immediate predecessor IPPS to SM, was Kim. Kim was not the immediate intimate predecessor to SM.
Okie dokie, I’ll just wait whenever for the book, maybe.
“The immediate predecessor IPPS to SM, was Kim. Kim was not the immediate intimate predecessor to SM.”
Well this explains it. Thank you for the clarification. So SM wasn’t a DEMB but she was a target while you were in a relationship with Kim. And you had a different IPSS while Kim was on devaluation but that IPPS didn’t become your IPPS.
Almost correct.
Thank you HG. I’m glad that at least I’m closer to correct than I was yesterday. I will await more revelations in the future.
If you chase after a man knowing he’s in another relationship, then you are dirty.
If you’re attracted to a man and proceed with a relationship knowing he’s in another one with someone else, you are dirty.
But if a man chases after you and tells you he’s at the end of a bad relationship, then you feel sorry for his situation understanding he’s in the process of ending it, such as a man in the middle of a divorce for example, and you are not dirty.
We know HG scoped out SM long before they got together. Why would she feel bad about his previous relationship not working out when she didn’t chase after him, but was an innocent bystander swept off her feet by him as he was ending a bad relationship? She didn’t break it up, it was going to break up anyway.
Where did I state she was swept off her feet as I was ending a bad relationship?
I’m stating SM was innocent and swept off her feet because you commented previously that you had scoped her out long before you engaged with her. You also stated on this thread that she is not a DEMB. Maybe you did not sweep her off her feet. From what other comments are saying, it sounds like you must have been in a relationship when you started seeing SM. All I ever hear are hints of previous relationships, and I don’t know anything about them. Maybe SM wasn’t swept up by you, maybe she didn’t like you and you kept annoying and pestering her so much that she gave in and started dating you. Maybe she’s a warrior that swept you off your feet, and you couldn’t resist her control over you, lol. Maybe you already ended your previous relationship before you engaged with SM, and the two of you were friends or colleagues who started going to lunch and slowly built a relationship.
Lol. …this is too funny .
Hi SMH
Yes a highly intelligent person will always probe and be curious, and sense if something is off if they are an intelligent Empath .
Maybe she won’t probe for fear of finding out something she doesn’t want to .
I’m sure we have all felt like that
Kiki
Hi Kiki, Yes, I agree. I was petrified to ask MRN what was wrong with him (well, I wouldn’t have asked like that, but you know what I mean). I once asked him if he was ‘on the spectrum’ and he didn’t know what I was talking about but later on, post-escape, I said I thought he had Aspergers. He said ‘I might,’ which means he actually did know what I was referring to when I asked if he was on the spectrum. (And he does not have Aspergers.)
He very freely admitted that he had very few emotions – I am not that complicated, he would say – and that he did not understand other people’s emotions or psychological states. But we never got that deeply into it because we had limited time together (IPSS) and he was very guarded about a lot of things.
I’m in the dark, I’d like to read his mind
But I’m frightened of the things I might find
“Voices Carry”
Defo yuppie narc in video
Christ it feels like a when did HG date who party-soap opera! Can you provide a detailed CV of sorts on this matter with months/years HG?
That is the purpose of The Asylum of the Grotesque.
Can you imagine being in a long relationship and having him tell you one day he’s a narcissist? Would it help her to know? I think it would, because then she’ll know how to react when one day he snaps because she’s innocently admiring something other than him. My narc boss’s wife knows I’m very sure, to praise him, overlook him, and to not question him. She loves him, has a family with him, she’s committed to what she has. It’s a give and take, he knows he does bad things, but he makes up for it by doing whatever she wants on the weekends, and moving to a new house if that’s what she wants and so on. It gives him freedom during the week, and her some happiness too. Not likely many women would give up someone they see as a good man. Unless you’re a Tudorite, and you know to goso.
Dear kel2day,
I worked closely with a “partner of a firm” who was arrogant selfish rude self centred bully
He’d belittle all those around him constantly, even reduce his “equal” females to tears
He would delight in being rude to me in the boardroom in front of others
I left the firm, I’d had enough
He was all lovey dovey to his wife n kids (they thought he was the perfect husband n father) huge expensive home in a classy suburb, expensive cars and private schools for his little cherubs
He died of cancer from his excessive smoking n drinking
I wonder how many partners actually know what their “other halves” are really like in the workplace and how they truly treat people ?
I’ve seen it countless times, their alter ego takes over
He was not a nice man and thankfully got what he deserved
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
My boss just threw his last company event, and in every photo of him he had a big ugly cigar in his mouth like it was his pacifier- he was the only one smoking one- they’re so smelly and everyone having to breath in smoke. His wife Like/hearted on every picture on FB of him that he had already Liked himself, I’m sure he expects her to do that and she knows it. He’s good to her, but I’m pretty sure she has to walk on eggshells sometimes and tread carefully with him. She stays slim and I’m sure he would criticize her if she gained a pound. He’s very disciplined with himself not gaining weight.
Dear kel2day,
How utterly conceited to smoke a cigar in front of everyone
He sounds like he has total control of her and she’s very much the materialistic type (a lot of women like being controlled and being a martyr, heaven knows why)
Walking on eggshells with someone is a sure sign
I know it well!
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Bubbles ….But it’s usually the primary that sees the worst ?
Dearest mollyb5,
Precisely, however, I’ve seen his wife’s n the adult kids fb pages
The eldest son is a cyclist for “cancer” charities and there’s posts from all of them saying “wish dad was here, dad would’ve loved this” and posts about people dying of cancer and looking down from heaven” blah blah blah
Maybe his wife did know and is keeping his memory alive for the sake of her kids
It’s nauseating, yet he lives on !
He was also a workaholic ….in the office by 7 am and never left before 7 pm, disappeared during the day, supposedly go in on weekends and went interstate heaps, I always wondered when he saw his wife n family.
When you start to analyse all the behavioural patterns, it somehow seems to fit the criteria
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Yes …if there are kids that would be an issue to ever show in public disrespect for the narc. Empaths , wives ..can be extremely loyal in public. They will not show disrespect or bitterness because , ….money is involved and tuitions , wills , estates etc. property ..These can easily be taken away and rewritten and changed by lawyers if a narc wants to do so and threatens to do. Wives want their children to have the benefits the children deserve ( they are innocent) and the time they have put into the narc relationship matters more than the actual relationship at that point. Does anybody understand that ? It’s not just about sex and girlfriends and flirting ….If one can not control an attitude then one will do their dam best to help their children. Even if the children are narcs themselves. Smearing the narc to others doesn’t do any good ;(
That lovey doves super dad is part of the facade. The mask does come off, especially with IPPS. Been there. The kids learn how to function with narc dad and those who see through the bullshit and don’t buy in end up scapegoats and outcasts.
kel2day,
I can’t really imagine that a narcissist would ever be able to be so completely open and honest to explain to someone that they’re a narcissist.
Maybe we hear HG being totally open about what he is and we then assume that narcissists in general have that ability also. But I think HG is a very rare narcissist.
The wife of the narc boss you have described sounds like she could be codependent. If she has been with her husband for years and is committed to what she has, then at some level, she sees nothing wrong with their dynamic and possibly even ‘needs’ that kind of relationship for her own emotional security.
WiserNow
I was referring to HG telling SM he’s a narcissist, and trying to put us in the position of being told that to try to think how SM would take it.
I actually feel sorry for my bosses wife. I think she’s a cool person who makes the best of life with a narcissist husband. I believe they had a marital crisis years ago, and her brothers came to town to protect her, and there was probably an intervention. I’m sure she knows what he is. He’s not bad to her, he knows he does bad things, but she’s painted white. She is a manager too in another industry, her daughters adore her, and where would she go if she left? They live a good life, they ride Dumbo at Disney, he sits on the floor opening gifts Christmas Day, they’re normal, but have to overlook and play along with his narcissism.
What looks normal is not behind closed doors. My ex was with his wife for 20 years and 6 kids before she died of cancer. On the outside he was a good father, family man, they built homes together, had a successful business together, the kids had the best of things. Behind closed doors he was vicious, condescending, cheating, had a different life and family was part of the facade, as I eventually became when he came here. He threatened to kill her if she left. He controlled the money. Behind the scenes he molested his young daughter, hid from a dark past, schemed his way into her family’s money. Very few people got to see his true colors and understand because he has spent a lifetime honing what he needs people to see. She has adjusted for survival.
Cyn
I absolutely believe you and have suspicions about it. One of his daughters lived at home well after getting her masters degree in college, and only moved out recently to finally have and live with a boyfriend. When she came home from college, it was Valentines and he was scurrying around getting his assistant to wrap an expensive gift for her for valentines and he got something for his wife too. I always wondered if she stayed home to protect her mother or if it was because he was molesting her. His daughters friends on FB were so in love with him, his other daughter commented how they had issues. I have no doubt he criticizes his wife to the point she can’t gain a pound of weight. He could be violent, he’s been a little physical with me before in pinning me in place and was as precise and accurate at applying pressure to cause just the slightest pain as accurately as a surgeon would be in not cutting too deeply.
Yes there is always a scapegoat. There is also a fan club. The scapegoat is the one who called bullshit. Yes the narc knows just how to cause the right amount of intimidation. Behind closed doors. I got lucky. I escaped and thankfully I kept finances separate, kept house separate. Apparently when he said “ I’ll never let go of you” it wasn’t a cute thing. I wish I could have helped his wife.
Dear Mr Tudor,
Oops, correction, I didnt mean shieldmaiden being your “personal therapist” but perhaps being associated in some other way shape or form in that particular field
Kindly
Bubbles xx 😘
Beautifully written.
My opinion;
1) Yes
2) No
3) No
4) Yes
5) Yes
6) Yes
7) Yes
Just do it. What do you have to lose? Your heart will not get broken and you will not get hurt.
Control – this is what HG would lose if he choose to reveal himself.
Although I have some hopes that if a devaluation occurs it might not be so drastic – given his mind, self awareness and the ongoing therapy. The human brain is not fully studied yet and some clinical studies show evidence of changes in certain parts of the brain as a result of therapy.
He might actually gain more control.
The questions themselves show that he might already be losing control. Which was what always happened in the previous dynamic. If he revealed himself she might change to adjust to him. If she wanted to and if she could. Although, only he knows if that would help.
I agree with you that the devaluation stage, as well as the discard, seems to be the real issue. His lack of emotion and the way he views the world differently could be accepted.
Please tell her it was HER that made you feel more than anything!! You invited her to sit between your legs and what you smelled and felt allowed her to stay which to me is evidence enough. I believe in my heart you have positive feeling for SM – after all it was HER fuel you craved. You may have done mean things in the past, we all have, but here I sense your hesitation of hurting HER. Please don’t lose her – your heart has suffered enough pain!!!
I view her positively, yes, because she is painted white. Currently.
GP’s been over for a good minute y’all!
MB
Correction: it was a statement not a question.
MB
What makes you say this that the GP has been over?
Kim e, That’s been a good while since this comment was made. I think at the time it was because of decreased exposure on IG, HG didn’t seem as “giddy”, and there was a little bit of an uh-oh feeling in this article. I had no evidence and therefore was out of line with this comment. It was a hunch and considering blog comments and answers on the Q&A, the GP blissfully continues 😊
Carry on. Nothing to see here!
May she remain so for a very long time. I think she is a fighter and resilient. She will get back up after her escape and pick up her sword. You wouldn’t refer to her as Shield Maiden if you didn’t see the warrior.
She is a warrior. My warrior.
Of course she is.
And she is a very lucky woman.
Dear Mr Tudor,
“What do you feel when you look at this” she asked me
Sounds like a therapists question
Is shieldmaiden your therapist ?
That would explain everything!
Beautifully written
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
No, she is not. She, is however, competition to one of my doctors.
Dear Mr Tudor,
Thank you so much for your “honesty” 😊
I felt that’s why you hesitated in your reply
(I’m just going on my female instincts here)
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
I think everyone here appreciates HG’s honesty.
He answers truthfully .
Thanks HG
Boooo to Dr. O 😄
“Competition to one of my doctors”. Shocking revelation! (Not!) Ha Ha
We don’t know how many doctors HG has in his life, though I hope it’s one that didn’t take the Hippocratic Oath. In any case, I see triangles in the new dynamic.
Sometimes you give answers we think you do not know you are giving. But you do. You know exactly what you are saying and or writing at all times HG.
The pause reminds me a bit of my son with autism. During his earlier years of therapy he was taught some social skills snd how best to fit in with different situations. He was taught that sometimes he would have to learn others responses and act it to fit in. With autism it can be tricky to fit in bc you dont always feel the same things as others or you think differently.
This pause reminded me of that with npd bc especially with greaters the pause would signify figuring out which response would be best suited for the situation as a narc wouldnt just feel it like someone without npd could.
Also the moment of envy i hope isnt a red flag in the relationship cycle.
Interesting you mention autism, CM. Lately I’ve been wondering if autism, Aspergers, and narcissism Are somehow related.
No, they are not.
Thank you for the confirmation, HG.
You’re welcome
I’ve heard aspergers used as an excuse for narcissistic behaviors just this week. I was like…that’s not aspergers, that’s indicative of narcissism. Not the same. Education is sorely needed!
Indeed! And further research on my part. I will get on it!
Lisk, reading HGs work will make Narcissists stand out to you like sore thumbs. They really are “hiding” in plain sight. (But not really once HG opens your eyes.)
It is confusing, MB. I was confused about whether my MRN had Aspergers or narcissism. I decided on the latter because he is so deceptive and manipulative. The last time we saw each other I said ‘for the longest time, I thought you had Aspergers.’ He said ‘I might’ (someone here said that a lot of narcs use Aspergers as an excuse). I said ‘no you don’t. You have a personality disorder,’ which of course he deflected. I am relieved to see HG say that there is no relation between them because I still feel somewhat guilty, like maybe I got it wrong? That it was Aspergers? Seems not.
HG, I don’t know if you feel knowledgeable enough but a post on the difference between Aspergers and narcissism would be really helpful and would probably get a lot of hits.
I have made a note.
Me too! Maybe not related but the lack of empathy piece is a common trait in my opinion.
Great, HG. I bet psych bloggers and websites would pick it up too.
SMH. Yes. A flow chart!
MB, Yes! Does X do this? Follow the arrow…
They are quite different. There is a lack of empathy present in both but people on the autistic spectrum dont manipulate.
I think autism is sometimes used as a label when NPD is applicable. I’ve heard bipolar used as a euphemism even more often. NPD is just not on people’s radars. I’m changing that as opportunities present.
I’m trying to MB. HG I have forwarded your work to 2 friends of mine this week!
HG approves.
MB, reading HG’s work *has* made Narcissists stand out to me like sore thumbs.
With regards to “research,” I was more talking about trying to understand Autism and Aspergers and why I might be confusing them with narcissism.
One thing that all three do have in common, at least, is lack of empathy. Perhaps the similarity stops right there.
Maybe the autistic and those with Aspergers differ from narcissists in that they can cut through emotion and be totally logical, but they lack the deliberation, the drive to manipulate, that narcissists have. In other words, the autistic and those with Aspergers lack the *need* for fuel.
Outside of that, my reading of HG over the past ten months has helped me tremendously, especially after I arrived at my new job. There are a lot of men where I now work (no, not all of them are narcs) and I am SURE that, had I taken this job Pre-HG, I would have allowed myself to have crushes on and/or desire a relationship with some of these guys. I would have been a TOTAL Sitting Target.
Instead, now with HG’s teachings in tow, I roll around that office without a care about any of these guys, except for noting the signs and symptoms of their narcissism and having many an internal giggle.
Aspies are frustrated and miserable at their inability to relate to people. They have emotions, but have trouble expressing them or recognizing them in others. Narcs pride themselves on how well they fake emotions they do not feel, and have contempt for those who do feel them.
Incorrect. Most narcissists do not know they are narcissists, therefore they believe they experience certain emotions but they do not. Therefore they cannot take pride in faking those emotions. Many fail to emulate them or do so effectively. You are imposing your own world view on the way that we are and this results in your error.
They also misread them in others. Combine aspergers with bipolar with giftedness in a child. Whammy. My kid lol
So do lower-functioning narcs believe they’re telling the truth when they say they’re in love? Do they really expect, this time will be different: “Painted White won’t spoil things the way Painted Black (curse the day I met that evil excuse for a human!) did”?
Yes
The empathy piece. My 11 year old is on the spectrum and very high functioning, gifted in many ways, memorizes and monologues things after hearing about them a few times (brain surgery for one) But social situations very difficult, he doesn’t perceive as others do, he feels strongly about things relating to him though. He comforted me about something once and I was so relieved and an told him I was glad to see he understood. He told me he didn’t know how I was feeling, but knew that he should do something because that’s what people did, so he got me a tissue and hugged me. His father is narc 1. Scary.
Hi lisk…i wish theyd do more research into this. There are many differences but i think the similarity is the area of the brain that affects emotion is hindered. One from birth autism one from epigenetics narcissism.
Autism is a spectrum so there are many degrees of functioning. My son has aspergers so is gifted and higher functioning but i do see at times he struggles with empathy and can only focus on what makes him disappointed, sad or angry. That being said ive yet to meet a person with autism that is intentionally calculating like a narcissist. The two are very different.
You never stop to smell the flowers with narcissism its always about the ego. You miss out on so much of lifes beauty. You see it but you dont really see it bc all you see if your own reflection.
In your case all you could say is what you know others would say bc to tell what you truly felt would show that you werent fully in the moment like SM was. You were in your own universe.
Don’t you know? That initial bridling that her admiration wasn’t directed at you was probably because of a false assumption. Women can multi-task in out thoughts, too. When we say, “It’s beautiful here,” that isn’t all we are saying. What we are saying is, “I’m so happy to be here with wonderful you, and I’m so attracted to you that I can barely contain it, and this night and place is so perfect, made all the more so because of you, and thank you for bringing me and sharing this with me, ad thank God that I met you, and I have so many hopes for us and our future…” but we can’t exactly say all of that, and not at once, so we say, “It’s so beautiful.” See? Of course I don’t know SM, and you didn’t let much about her out in the article, but if she was interesting enough to attract you, she is likely having this or similar run of thoughts in her head. And you can tell that she was because of how willing she was to sit between your legs in the circle of your arms, and how she relaxed against you.
You thought she was enamored of the stars, but for one of our kind, when we are with one of your kind, because of how you seduce us, we love everything because of and through you. This is why they world is so dull and grey when you go away. So you thought her fuel was directed elsewhere, but you were mistaken. And I’m glad you didn’t lash out at her for not doing what she most likely actually was doing.
Yep. She will never be able to look at a night sky again–or smell mountain air, or go on a camping trip, even if she’s done it dozens of times before–without flashing back to GH. The sort of srnse-memory creation on which he usually prides himself.
It is called Ever Presence.
Rhymes with “evanescence.”
You are still there even though you have vanished. .
So very true.
To her HG, you are the sun the moon and the stars. You are her universe. She loves you.
She may enjoy moments that include other things, but her enjoyment is heightened because of you. Because she feels as if you are sharing something special.
When the devaluation begins… she will look back on that night and then be able to find forgiveness for you because of it. It’s what creates that awful cognitive dissonance. But you know this… it’s why you enjoy all the pain you cause so much. 😞
Sharing anything with someone you love makes it 100x better. Good point, S!
Great observations Seballerina. If you consider the scene in the aspects that are unspoken, there is no actual need for the SM to continually “say” how much she admires HG and enjoys being in his company.
She is there alone with him. She has spent the evening with him and is continuing to do so. She feels comfortable and trusting enough to relax and move even closer to him. She says, “it’s so beautiful” about the stars and the place they’re in. She is already saying everything without words.
If HG was emotionally “there”, he would be able to instinctively “know” that and know that she is not just directing her observation at the stars and location. She is saying it because of the way she feels in his company.
Seballerina I thought the same, it was beautiful because of the moment of both the night sky and being with the person she loves.
HG, I love your lyrical prose, and I love a true dark sky. Only in complete darkness can we see the brilliance of all the dazzling lights visible to the naked eye. It is spectacular.
There are no shoulds, only choices! Upon consideration, you might say something like:
“If not for you, I might only feel the great void of the universe, but with you, I feel powerful. Nothing is impossible. Here we are, sat on the throne of the universe, and all the stars in the galaxies above shine brightly just for us.”
It hints at the void you feel, but in the presence of her fuel, you feel powerful. Aware and in command of all that you see before you. It preserves the construct while honoring the new dynamic. Did I get close?
I find it interesting you pointed out Jupiter. Jupiter might be a great N planet. It has a commanding presence amidst other heavenly bodies. It’s tremendous influence draws all nearby particles within its grasp. From afar, it appears to be solid, even calm, but in reality, it is a brilliant array of vaporous layers that grow increasingly dense, almost impossible to penetrate. As you move to the core of this planet, the layers become so compressed they transform in to a metallic liquid that literally creates it’s own electricity. Unlike Jupiter, the 79 moons that orbit the planet are solid, forever destined to remain in the gravitational pull of the imposing giant. Kinda sounds familiar, huh?
Wonderful post, HG, I truly enjoyed it and I hope you had a wonderful evening in spite of any challenging discomfort. Well done. Long live the new construct. We are pulling for you.
Thank you
I always love reading your posts FYC. You are thoughtful and intelligent.
Thank you, E007, you are very kind.
I would say that Jupiter is an appropriate Narc planet because it’s a real gas bag, but we all know Uranus is a better fit.
I hear there’s been probes into Uranus.
Haha. Not mine, but I’d visit your planet with a gift.
Probes into Uranus…alright, that’s enough comment reading for today, sleep tight everybody! Sweet dreams.
Let me know if you find any moons behind Uranus.
Lol, HG & NA! Love when you guys interact. The angels just made another $2.
My guess is that you paused because unlike before, this is not 💯 just about you and your acquisition of fuel. A part of you considers what these words that you will utter next might really convey to her and not just which words will give you the most fuel. You are being thoughtful about what is sustainable for both of you. You gave her the most truthful answer that you can give her but in an obscure way where it will still make her happy and feel safe and not spoil the moment.
A lovely piece of writing. What did you answer to her question?
Funny what people pick up on – I noticed the pause, and your comment about you tolerating her touching you when she leaned back into you. That latter comment blistered all the romantic triggers away, which I’m sure it was meant to. It was like seeing into the mind of a computer.
Wow, this thread today! Hi everyone. I had thoughts on HGs idyllic tryst with the SM, but I’m put off by your views on musicians!! Lol. Take it easy on us!
And Celine, like her music choices or not I think her execution is unbelievable! I love hearing her! I hope I’m an instrumental version , at some level.
The story, and your sentiment of feeling superiority at experiencing something most never will, nor would understand ….
That is how I feel as a performer. Very much as you described. Transported into a world of sound, and response to others sounds, like a secret language, that has emotion, and draws others into it. Heck, you could have an entire relationship with a player you’ve never met, but play music with, across the pit.
And so your shared connection and experience with the SM and the sky, for me are similar in that unspoken fashion.
Superior in such different ways.
A fellow musician! What do you play cogra?
NA
Even though I feel the ET trying to creep in, I can and will not let that happen. Evidence is what I seek!
I assume you had a response? I haven’t read all the comments so not sure if you’ve told us what it was.
Honestly…. knowing a narcissist you could probably make a half version of the truth. You could say that your favorite part of the experince was sharing it with her, that her presence is what made it the most special. It’s not a lie persay… but its not how she would interpret it. My narc would have probably went that route with his answer. It would have been affective at achieving his goals more positive fuel would be going his way.
Knowing who he is now…. if that scenario should happen I would be interested in the truth. I would probably have a lot of follow up questions he’d be uncomfortable with but it would just be my truth seeking trait coming to the forefront. It wouldn’t be to insult. But to understand.
There really is no right or wrong way to respond.
Sounds like a lovely evening.
It’s a shame you could not just find the peace in its simplicity.
HG I know why I think you paused, you didn’t know what to say.you had to open up your feelings and emotions and it is very hard to do with your kind as you cant fuel yourself It takes you to place where you dont want to be. So you didnt know what to.tell her.
Interesting but not quite right. There’s nothing to open up, there’s nothing inside.
HG I keep forgetting Narcs dont have emotions or feelings like us so then I think answering with logic and your brains then. You are gifted with knowledge and you are an. intelligent man.
One thing I greatly appreciate about your work is that it is so literal. There is really not much to second-guess here.
Yet many still try to find more beyond a mask, a mask that you do not wear here. They want there to be something where there is nothing.
It is quiet ironic how us truth-seekers can often want to see anything other than the truth–I was guilty of this with my Narcx, less so here.
Valid observation but what happens is you always want to see the truth, you’re truth seekers, but you arrive at a ‘false truth’ led by your worldview and emotional thinking.
Do you think we just balk at what is before our eyes simply to maintain face and our own “illusion” of truth?
No, you are misled by your emotional thinking to cause your continued engagement with the narcissist in some form.
100 percent true !!!!!
*save face, I meant to say.
Oh, absolutely, HG. I believe that’s what I meant by the irony of it—I see a lot of projection in this thread.
Even I struggle to believe this HG, the emptiness of you, as the moments you have described with your woman above in poetic eloquence makes my own heart feel so much…..hope. Not that I think you would lie. I understand why shieldmaiden is captivated by you. In terms of emptiness, fuel and energy….have you ever disclosed to an empath what you are, had them accept it, and say being around you is calming in a sense….because the empaths energy is too much…and by you taking on the energy it balances their energy?
Thank you and this shows you how dangerous we are, how misleading hope is and is one of the purposes of writing such an article. It demonstrates that as a consequence of intellect, ability and calculation that I am able to commandeer the words of others and shape them to the situation that I am in to mask the absence of feeling. Thought is the substitution for feeling and is used to maintain control and gain fuel.
I have not disclosed what I am. I have had people state they find my presence calming because of my confidence, assertiveness and certainty of decision. You may well be correct that part of it is that they are able to divest a lot of themselves into the chasm that I am and thus it provides them with balance.
Your confidence, assertiveness and certainty of decision would be calming, as it removes pressure from others already overwhelmed by emotional pressures. But if there was no emotional or logical view point, but purely energetic and spiritual outlook, one needs emotional energetic fuel, the other has too much….it’s just something I noticed within myself…..and others…and when the dynamic is disrupted the change in balance is significant. Not from a co dependant perspective either, if that makes logical sense? Funnily enough a topic of relevance in my home currently is blackholes….
That is how I felt with my narc, HG. He was preternaturally calm, certain, and confident (on the surface – your confidence is way deeper as he is a mid-ranger). I did open up to him but I am generally a very open person. I don’t have many secrets and I am willing to talk about anything. So I do not have that feeling that I divulged too much of myself to MRN. A lot of what we are left with depends on our own personalities. I didn’t find this post to be particularly romantic, perhaps because you gave us so much of your inner thoughts and I am not very romantic anyway. But I am very curious about what SM was thinking. I believe a lot of people on here are projecting their own selves onto her. She is like a Rorschach inkblot test. What we see is just a reflection of who we are.
You make valid points, SMH.
Thank you, HG. You can now group us into skeptics (or sceptics, as Brits would have it), romantics, realists, cynics, etc. based on how we responded to this post.
HG, You are so very correct. We want to believe the beauty you create and we see such beauty as evidence of something deeper and meaningful. You do influence, and such influence is powerful. It’s too bad it is just for fuel. I thank you for the reminder.
Your comment, “Thought is the substitution for feeling…”, this may be true for you because thought enables you to maintain your defense, but for others this is not the case. Thoughts never substitute for feelings. Feelings and thoughts coexist and both inform us on any experience. I enjoy thinking, but it would never be a reasonable substitute for all that I feel. I am grateful to have both.
One of the reasons I stayed as well; his calming, grounding affect. One of very few people who I felt balanced out my energy and others saw it too and approved.
Beautifully written, HG.
You refer to that beautiful place as “our sanctuary in the mountains”, a “haven”. Those words convey safety and protection. It is like a refuge from those who will not appreciate the beauty of the universe and have very different views from yours.
You have recognised that the SM feels at ease and comfortable with you and she trusts you. If you feel comfortable and (emotionally) safe in her company, just the two of you in that peaceful place, why not admit to having those feelings.
I think there is no right or wrong answer. If you want to give her an honest answer, you can combine both: knowledge *and* feelings.
Interesting, thank you for your observations EB.
EB
He can answer with knowledge but not feelings. Unless they are the negative feelings that he has.
Correct
You use knowledge to hide lack of feeling. As an empath I use knowledge to hide feelings.
FM1T,
Feeling at ease and relaxed with someone are positive feelings. Feeling indifferent would me neutral.
EB
HG never said he felt relaxed and at ease. In fact when she laid against him, he had to push the thoughts of uneasiness out of his mind and instead concentrated on the fuel he would receive.
FM1T,
I know, I did not said he had said that. He did say he had instructed her how to sit – close to him. He wanted it that way.
re “he had to push the thoughts of uneasiness out of his mind and instead concentrated on the fuel he would receive.”
You are right, FM1T. Thank you for clarifying. I have read that part again. I realized I had misunderstood “I felt the instinctive bristle against this closeness”. This is a *negative* response.
Now it is clear why he said my comment was ‘interesting’, i.e. nonsense! Ha ha ha 🙂
Not Nonsense EB. Sometimes we just read and hear what we want it to be. I also had to go back and read this article a few times, each time finding something else that I had not read previously. I believe HG is just that gifted of a story teller, the way he uses words that creates a story that appeals to the love devotee in most of us. Some read that story and only see a romantic evening with two people sharing a beautiful star lit sky and each other. We have a beautiful princess ( Viking warrior princess) and a beast ( although he might be handsome, a beast never the less ) we want love to conquer all just as it did in all of those fairytales when we were younger. We want good to conquer evil, as they ride off into the sunset happily ever after. It gives people hope, which is a word I have grown to dislike and not believe in even more then HG does. Some can afford to believe in all of that happily ever after bullshit, I am know longer one of those people. Take care EB and have a great weekend!
FM1T,
Thank you so much for your kind words.
It is just like you said, we read his story and see a romantic evening.
Since HG has been working hard on himself (therapy) during the past years, I wish he could experience what it is like to love the SM and feel loved by her.
Wish you a nice evening, FM1T!
Strange how HG can write so beautifully and almost place you there with just words yet feelings are missing from the beautiful words. Sad…
HG I dont know what too say I am lost for words.
This article made me very emotional I know from your work that your kind cant change but is there a slightest possibilty? SM sounds like a very nice lady and I can picture the ending. I feel like I am reading a romance novel when the couple break up at the end. I dont know your whole relationship but it could last years. I am just finding out about this disorder through your work. I now know my husband of 23 years is a N. Please go easy on her since Greaters know what they are you can control the situation I think .
The fact that I paused to consider my response is evidence of the effect of the prosocial work that I have undertaken. Interestingly, nobody had picked up on that.
HG you are making great progress I do read that in your work. !
What do you think of Sam Vaknin’s Cold Therapy method? I know you see no need for it as who you are works for you. But in general what is your opinion? Also, if narcissism prevents someone with NPD from being aware of it (other than the 5%) how would they end up being willing to succumb (for lack of a better word) to that? It seems a narc would immediately resist any attempt to pierce into vulnerability; unless tricked into it by another narc perhaps?
Is he a celebrity chef?
lol omg well then that sums it up thank you.
It cannot work. I have explained elsewhere why it will not.
Will you direct me to that piece please?
Which piece are you referring to (I do not see the previous comment in the moderation pane)
Regarding why “cold therapy” won’t work. Or I guess therapy in general, retraumatization… I had asked about Sam Vaknin’s theory.
HG
Some of us noticed the pause but didn’t mention it. We are waiting for further indications to draw any conclusions, but we are paying attention. Some one taught us to “wait and see” you see.
Good answer.
The “pause” was all about narcissism. If one will listen, he was saying a lot in that pause..
Where was a pause?
I believe we picked up on it HG, but we are still waiting for what you said. I’m also pretty sure I have read where being a greater you will pause at times to reflect on how you should answer or what emotional mask you should put onto bring forth the fuel that you need.
Exactly. Mine did it all the time.
I just assumed the pause would be about which response would generate the type of outcome you were looking for… mine used to pause as well. And thought very hard about every word that came
Out of his mouth whilst manipulating.
HG your best response ever!!! I know there is a wonderful man in there – no one can write such beauty and not have some positive feelings!! So happy for you!!
Yes, actually, I did pick up on the fact that you paused before answering and also that you did not recoil from physical proximity. In fact, you invited her to sit closer.
For me, there were two reasons I didn’t mention this:
It just seems intrusive and too personal to comment on as you are having a relationship with this person, who is obviously enamored with you.
And also, having been reading your work for a long while now, it is difficult to be too optimistic and romanticize the situation.
Despite all of this, I think deep down all of those who are truly empathic, would wish that you are making progress with the “good doctors”, and you are able to delve into your “feelings” and actually reciprocate SM’s affection, and not solely for her fuel. You are after all a man, and no matter how you might deny it, on some level it must be wonderful to be adored by such a woman that possesses many of the qualities that you deem attractive.
Thank you for your considered observations Nina. I appreciate your boundary recognition in not commenting (initially) but I invite all readers to do so, this is a place of constructive debate and discussion, which assists all of your understanding and progress.
HG,
I noticed your more contemplative silences and the way you resisted your instinctive reactions. I especially noticed that you had an urge to recoil a little from her affection but you felt you had enough fuel and didn’t need to. The “instinctive bristle” you felt when she moved closer to you, but you felt you could resist that urge and didn’t react to it. They are all great signs HG. Well done! I hope they continue.
Thank you
I assumed the pause resulted from your natural scheming/controlling nature.
“The fact that I paused to consider my response..”
What would that have been usually?
I am not being cocky, I just assumed a greater would have paused anyhow since they are all about planning and foreseeing the future, etc. And as you eluded to in your article, it gives more strength to your reply when you pause.
I would have thought, given your train of thought of YOU and your magnificence that sometimes you would slip up and concentrate on that with your answer. Some empaths would be fine hearing that kind of a response anyway.
Hello HG, I hope you told SM that it was her that made you feel the night sky was special.
As you said, your kind has enough cognitive empathy to know how empaths feel and any other answer would have been disappointing to her.
Sounds like you had a wonderful evening. xx
“And now, if you follow my finger, I will take you to Saturn,”
HG, sweetie.
“If you give me your finger i’ll…”
I’m not completing this one. It’s beneath me.
Unfortunately, you did not need to.
Good answer.
Of course, I wrote it.
So did I.
We need to call the Recurssion Police!
Renarde just wondering where you had gone!
Thankyou for thinking about me Cyn.
Had a strange week. My Godmother died just before my birthday. I perceive she was the last real link into the past saving my parents.
I’m ok. Are you ok?
I am. Had a weird week as well. Huge trigger but brought me to even more clarity, and horror. I’m sorry your Godmother passed. It’s so hard when we lose history. Especially if the history was a comfort.
My huge thing happened on my birthday, the 16th lol. When was yours?
19th
What was your big thing, Cyn?
I got back on FB for the first time in quite awhile and my ex narc2 daughter, the scapegoat who I was protective of and whose life is ruined disclosed to me that narc 2 molested her as a child, was very abusive to her mother in many ways and threatened to kill her if she left. She and her mom researched and knew he was a sociopath, never a speck of remorse about anything, capable of anything. Overtly charming, giving though depending on who he was so she thought maybe he changed with me since we were happy and together do long. She never disclosed to anyone because the other kids played different roles of course and she knew her life would be worse and no one would believe her. Her mom died of cancer after 20 years with him. Everyone else thought he was cool because he bought them. Except for the other black sheep. He hates the daughter he molested, horrible to her. So I went from having some compassion to being ashamed, disgusted, and furious at who he is and what he has done. Also frightened of he is when I remembered some things he has said, indicators, horrible things. He’s beneath a standard narcissist. He is more dangerous than some. I went into flashbacks, shut down. So glad he doesn’t know where I am.
Goodness my love. Thats shocking. Really shocking. Even for here.
Firstly, that young lady you helped. Well done on that. Very well done.
The second us you are saying you are having flashbacks? If you are then that is a very clear sign you have PTSD.
The human brain is a wondrous thing. PRSD protects us from harm. But the flip side is that it also enables us to stay in abusive relationships longer than necessary.
Your Dr can refer you.
But very well done for supporting that young woman. We will now support you.
Keep posting. X
Yes I have been diagnosed with Complex PTSD, not only from the last 13 years , narc ex h, then narc 2 (sandwich) but many other traumas and of course the childhood narc grandfather. I have an excellent therapist who specializes in reprogramming the brain from these traumas, and she made me agree to again get off social media, agreeing of course with HG. As for the young woman, I was often compared to her by narc 2; both of us being “uncontrollable”, initially he put me in charge of her; helping navigate her after abusive husband and losing her toddlers. I love two of his daughters in particular, one encouraged me to guide her through this again. I will always be protective of them. But can’t save them at my expense. I’ve given her tools, information regarding different types of narcs and directed her here (she insists her father and her ex are opposite and her ex is all better now).
Yes I was hesitant to bring this up as it is a taboo subject and it may be against ‘the rules’ and a trigger for many; though I would like to see it discussed. I don’t know if it’s a common trait of narc/psychopath in family dynamic, or if it is a separate type of pathology. Either way it is sickening.
Dear Cyn
What a lovely thought out moderate and controlled response.
You’re last paragraph is very telling.
‘Yes I was hesitant to bring this up as it is a taboo subject’
Nah, it isn’t. It’s just that society has conditioned you to think it it.
I am quite happily read all kinds of stuff and not have my PTSD affected. Occasionally I do get VERY triggered but its rare. There is a trial at the moment. Liverpool. Valerie Wallach. I’ve cried a lot this last week over her. Her story has profoundly affected me.
I think and maybe I’m wrong so apologies, I’m just not sure on your therapist. I’m really not.
When I lost my children to the GEN, I started to avoid places where I knew there would be children. I would wear shades because that way I could cry and not been seen as a snivelling wreck.
I grew stronger. I realised that avoidance is unhealthy. It really is, you know.
Coming of SM will not help you long term. It’s simply parking the issue. Now, I’m ok. I can see children and interact with them. I like to pull funny faces and see their smiles and laughter.
You are very right though. It is sickening. All of this is sickening.
HG will see you right. And I’m always here as are others. Anytime.
The SM part is FB because the girls are on there and I need to step away from the info feed regarding their father. I don’t follow them but did not unfriend or block them. I have not had the heart to block them as I am a woman’s woman and am protective of them, they have no positive female role model and obviously a warped perception of what a man/father is. I set very clear boundaries around them/him. I have never discussed what happened since my final escape and have made it clear I will not and will not speak to him ever again. Nor will I disclose my location.
I agree I can’t hide forever. It’s been no contact for 9 months. I took my power back. I wasn’t ready for that however.
I am so sorry about your children, that’s another piece of my story too although I still have mine. There is nothing more devastating. Nothing.
What’s weird is that other things don’t trigger me. I have no romanticism about him. Due to a loan we are on together he has one electronic avenue open to me (We are both on the hook for $27,000) which I check rarely. He emailed again, he made it 3 months since his last hoover attempt before I moved. I felt nothing, didn’t open the email. Just noticed. My emotion is for the daughter, the damage she has suffered, and also that despite my 20 year fascination and studies of psychology I did not put his pieces together- did not want to; and he is still harming people. There is another piece of his story. But he’s no longer on the hook. He is dangerous.
I’m ok now. But unfortunately I don’t think his daughter ever will be.
That’s so sad to hear about his daughter. She may be ok on the long run. We are making massive advances all the time in how we understand the brain.
Generally, as a society, we understand so little about the mind. Sometimes when I read articles on Psychology Today I’m struck that some of them are getting it. Not all are. When I went under the care of a psychiatrist earlier this year, after he clinically stamped me as ‘not bonkers’, I asked him if he ever diagnosed any with NPD. he said no.
How can that be? Hes a post grad on the MD. 17% of people suffer from it. Point is, he cant diagnose because he probably has it. Whether he was aware on not, I’m just not sure. What I fo know is tgst he put me on medication, the prozac, which did help but caused a serious contraindicatio. It made me bleed. He SHOULD have checked back on me after a time. He didnt. He discharged me and I was never told until I checked up on it.
Moreover, my Drs surgery changed the brand name of the meds citing that his prescription was too expensive so it was substituted. And the dose was changed.
I queried this with the pharmacist. Told it was ok. It’s not ok. I was bleeding.
Latest research out of my own Alma Mater is strongly suggesting that pretty much ALL mental health conditions are actually phenotypical as opposed to geneotypical. Simply put, we were not born this way.
That is a massive advance. Hopefully other universities will pick it up and run with it.
Of course now that WE are here on NS, finally we understand. Society is light years behind understanding NPD.
You are switched on Cyn. So what do you think about this.
Bonsai trees.
To add.
No one should EVER be allowed to reprogramm the human brain. No one.
I agree. My terminology, not hers. I guess I am referring to how I respond to triggers and flashbacks. She uses EMDR and something else. The goal is to give me the tools to be able to regulate my responses. I’ve always been good at analyzing myself and compartmentalizing, detaching in order to handle a very demanding life. But after I escaped, eventually I unraveled and survival mode didn’t work anymore. Unfortunately I ended up in a therapy group that was completely inappropriate but required for time off and as I warned them I would, I was volatile, outspoken, called the therapists on the bullshit of their generic program where people are numbers and the scary topics are unaddressed because they have a quota to meet for funding blah blah blah. I was too aggressive with a sport thing and almost knocked someone down with a Pilates ball, refused their stupid pipe cleaner art and most of the groups so I walked out. I finally got what I requested.
Have you dealt with the PTSD from Narcissistic abuse? If so, what has helped long term?
Oooh ouch! I recognise aspects of your story. I really do!
Short answer is no I’ve not saught treatment. I’ve thought about this long and hard and have decided against it.
I was warned by a psychiatric nurse that trauma therapy is very painful. That doesn’t bother me at all. What really bothers me is that I’ve lived with this for so long, going right back into childhood. My brain has developed it’s own natural defence. Clearly it’s worked or I would not be here.
The phrase, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it springs to mind.
My mind isnt broke. At times it is confused but I think I can live with it.
There are very few good and effective therapists out there. Many are genuinely empathic and want to help but unfortunately are clueless.
The mind is a very precious thing. I’m pretty sure all therapy for ne personally wont work as my own defences will just shut it down.
This is the very big reason that I’ve never taken any drug, street or legal, which alters my perception of reality itself.
But what has helped enormously, the two drugs which shook me out if the stupor were Prozac and Cannabis. Those both really worked and enabled me to get a handle on what has happened to me.
Laughing at pipe cleaner art. Very probably honestly meant but entirely useless unless you fire it at the time as an interesting diversion.
Therapy eh? I could crack a very old joke here.
I’ve been to a couple therapists over the years who are clueless and actually cause more harm than good. This one specializes in ptsd, emotionally abusive relationships, and teaches therapists DBT.
Sex is off the table at the moment as I might be dangerous. Or I would shatter. As far as vanilla, well not there yet either. Plus I don’t like anyone right now if I haven’t known them for at least 5 years, preferably 25.
I apologize in advance for the length of this response. I just write as I think it all flies out. Grab your coffee or wine lol.
I just realized upon re-reading your response that you said ‘therapy’ and no mention of sex lol. My previous response showed my dirty mind. No I am not a sex addict.
Regarding advancements in psychology and psychiatry; I think we are born with a template and predispositions toward things, switches that can be flipped, and coping mechanisms that will arise dependent on external factors and temperaments. That’s my opinion based on my life and those close to me. I have bipolar 2, add, CPTSD. Several generations of my family have bipolar. I was diagnosed 25 years ago and am very good at managing it; a couple meds in particular have saved my life and will always be on board. I am particularly sensitive to medications and have tried many and had serious consequences. I am a very disciplined person partly due to the need to control my environment and myself to feel safe, which works for bipolar. Exercise has been a staple and makes me happy or at least able to ground myself, diet, sleep, and being in nature, my dog, music, lifestyle management, self advocacy, MEDS are huge. I have always been extremely analytical and able to observe myself from the outside and keep track of something misfiring and messing with my perception (which also kept me in abuse with narc 2).
My switch was flipped by abuse and trauma. A violent assault at 5 years old by an older boy who beat the crap out of me, almost killed me. Then molestation by my narc alcoholic grandfather (not biological) around 10, and the murder of my uncle who lived with us and was basically my big brother when I was 15, a few hours after he said goodbye to me. I learned to dissociate, learned not to cry, learned to be fascinated with whatever my mind took interest in and threw myself into learning everything I could about whatever I wanted. I believe our disorders and coping mechanisms can be our greatest strengths. I believe some people are triggered into being more empathetic and others are triggered into narcissism. A brilliant mind in any case will accentuate the superpowers. I also believe that because I am intelligent and cope do well (until recently) nobody believed when I wasn’t coping. I too built a construct to not be the terrified fractured little girl, but to be capable, fight back, do everything correctly, one foot in front of the other and keep absorbing, keep learning, always studying and needing to figure out everything. But I feel deeply.
I think there must be balance, a med for people like me means the balance of the scale, a choice between life or death. However too many meds make people’s minds incapable of growth. Make their innate superpowers blunted. Medication can help a person be functional enough to turn a corner and then address the issues. Trauma does indeed change the brain and how it functions. I love the way mind has worked and I have been called brilliant by many (that sounds narcissistic so hard for me to say). But I also think there is only so long that our innate coping mechanisms work. In my case my brain stopped being able to control my responses to emotional triggers and I couldn’t even figure out the triggers. Things had accumulated for too long. I look 45 but am 50 (that’s what I’m told) and I feel like I have lived 5 lives.
I think I have no choice but to find a way to cope differently and bring myself out of the trauma response. The old ways simply didn’t work in my favor anymore. Even though I have great coping skills they weren’t enough. I think maybe as long as yours work and don’t have you repeating patterns and they aren’t stunting your growth then that’s great. For me I have mostly thought therapy was bullshit; we know most of our own answers. But I’m hoping to find coping tools for the flashbacks and shame and dissociation because although it’s way better than 9 months ago when I would get triggered and forget what I was doing somewhere and why and wouldn’t be able to describe the flooding thoughts and emotions and pictures in my head. But I am still quite volatile at times and many other symptoms. It’s not bipolar it’s traumas I had put in boxes. I knew they would open and when. They did.
You may still have some boxes left, or space in your boxes.
So sorry for the length of this response.
Dear Cyn
First off, never apologise for a length of a post. You have every right to be heard. Every right .
I’m staggered that you’ve been through so much. I truly am. What a very brave and courageous survivour you are. Truly. An inspiration to all of our breathren.
Last night, I randomly ring my brother (it’s not random, this was my contagion strand sensing something was up).
Indeed, something WAS up. Turns out my rapist GEN ex had visited MY parents with the kids. No one even mentioned my name. I’m being airbrushed out of history.
I talk to my CD mum. She sees nothing wrong in her actions. Youre my fucking mum! That’s how brainwashed she is. Stepford.
I then go, fuck this shit. It ends. I try to call the police on the non emergency 101.
‘Sorry, you do not have enough minutes to make this call’
WHAT??!!
I then call two people. And I speak to them. I try 101 twice more and get the same message.
I finally get through by ringing 999 and asking to be transferred. And I had to do that twice too.
I get a call today from a DC in the DV unit. The same tosser who implied my mental health wouldn’t stand up to the process and it would be better if I dropped it. I’ve just spoken to him and very clearly but calmly stated I am very unhappy with his behaviour and would be making a complaint about him. I’m going to get a call back apparently from another. Let’s see.
What struck me on both occasions was how absolutly terrified he sounded on the phone. Why? No wonder women cant get justice when you have unaware narcs there. In the DV unit itself. Why is he frightened of me? I’ve never been anything other than polite, well mannered and considerate. I’m not a hot screaming, crying, empathic mess. Those days are long gone.
Gah!
Anyway, you ARE brilliant. No question. You’re writing is considered, fair, kind and compassionate. You are lovely. You’re my inspiration. If you can do it, so can I.
Would you like to know one of my recent pet theories?
Serious mental health complaints like Bipolar or Schizophrenia I believe are triggered by very extreme NPD abuse. Bit of a psychological nature. I’ve seen it in my mum and you are now highlighting it.
You are very intelligent. My mum isnt not intelligent but about 10 years or so ago, she typed a message to me. On a typewriter. What was stunning is that she referred to herself in the third person. It was about her childhood. That is her PTSD. She would also startle at loud noises.
You are a very brave, intelligent and capable woman. Now, you wouldn’t be a SE by any chance? Would you?
Lovely, it ends today. All of it. I dont fully understand HGs motivations for his work and his blog. But what I do know is that his grace is allowing you and I, right now to communicate with each other. And hopefully help each other. You do not get that anywhere else on the web.
So, have a great day. I’m going to kick arse. (Standard). And I’m not going to let the bastards win.
PN taught me that
X
Reynarde I don’t know your whole story but I am so proud of you already! You just lucked up your sword! Remember that at times you will need to step back and rest, gain perspective, then fight some more.
Yes, predators are afraid when prey fight back. Rapists succeed by taking power from those who don’t fight back.
I am a hybrid per HG. Part codependent (in romantic relationships but not others) part saviour, part super.
Please please keep me up to date I want to hear what happens today? What empath type are you????
I’m so excited for you!!!! Better than coffee!
BTW I had a similar experience with my older son. It worked out because I kept showing up, kept being who I am in the face of bullshit. You will succeed.
Thankyou! Well, I recieved a call today on a private number but no message was left which was odd. I would be expected the police to do that. If it was the DV unit then that’s VERY naughty. Do they not understand how narcs use that trick to circumvent a NC? Even that useless copper rang me on an screened number and at least had the grace to leave a voicemail. Hmm.
Yes, there have been developments today. I’ve been fighting my ex since april 2018 for my kids. I’ve been living under unbelievable stress and pressure. He unlawfully removed all access in Jan this year. Of course I fought back. Utilised every service I could think of. Final court hearing set for April. I snapped. I was breaking down multiple times a day. I took an overdose. Lethal.
I do manage to get the hearing adjourned. New date, july 25th. I’m scared, frightened, anxious but I know this time it’s going to be ok. I have support.
I decide to ho with my partner to blue dot festival at Jodrell bank. I gauge I have enough time to do my stuff AND I need to decompress. First hold in two years. I’m excited. Imagine my utter shock and horror when I recieved a letter. Court had sat on the 16th!!! I had not been told. They knew my address. Court found against me. They had to.
I immediately petition the judge to have the verdict overturned. They grant me leave to appeal, which I did.
I send off the form. Two weeks later, i get it back. I’ve not paid the £155. I ring them. It’s their fault. Yup they agree send it back. I do. Signed for first class.
Imagine my UTTER disbelief when the letter is returned next day TO ME! Back in the system it goes only for it hang around for THREE DAYS before finally being signed for. Unbelievable.
I talk to mum tonight. I ask, how could you? She gets defensive. Asks if I’m on my meds. Then says essentially it’s my fault. I haven’t attended court. She doesn’t know!!!
I tell her what’s happened. She accuses me of lying. I tell her the above and she goes very very quiet. I tell her the judge has given leave to overturn the verdict More silence. She then refuses to speak and ends the call. But not before i said i will never forgive her for what shes done to me. I cant.
I have compassion and empathy for her. I know her thinking has been constrained by that cheating filth of PN. But I’m her daughter. I’m really the only one who truly loves her but she cannot see it. If we were together, shed have a fantastic life. She would be a lady of leisure rather than wiping that fat fucks arse. We would look after each other.
So. Sadly. I’ve had to go full NC again which I’ve no done. Shes betrayed me and her grandkids. I am painted black. I’m the black sheep. The promisicous liar.
It’s really upset me. But as a friend said, dud you really expect any different?
Thanks for listening.
This sounds quite familiar. I too have had that unbelievable kind of spiral. Other people can’t fathom so they blame. Because they don’t have the bandwidth to see the whole picture. My family did that too. It took 7 years for them to realize how stupid they had been. In the meantime I focused on doing the right stuff and keeping accurate records so there was proof of all the screw ups even if I was a mess. This kind of thing does indeed create insanity. Then it creates a warrior. You have all my support.
There is a big gap between what DV units understand about abuse vs narcissistic abuse btw. It’s different. They don’t know what they are looking at. They need to view the abuser through a criminology lens. How would they act as a psychopath stalking prey? But they dont
Also, my ex husband, the other half of my narc sandwich and father of my 11 year old ASD and bipolar son, is also a rapist. I learned a few months ago first hand from a friend that he did this to her about 8 years ago while she was a patient in the hospital where he works. She at the time was on an escort site and she never reported it. She just recently did. They said they would “keep an eye on him.” I have been fighting his alienation attempts with my son for years as well as his abuse. Thanks to HG I set boundaries and the abuse doesn’t happen anymore.
You got this. I’m really really really happy to wake up to this!!! Pacific time…
Horrible. It’s horrible x
Narc 2 taught me some good stuff too. You got this.
Oops I think hybrid of carrier, CD, super
I’m a SE. Mostly magnet, some saviour with a huge dollop of Contagion. I can geyser too but usually in private [wink]
Ha! Wink back
Also of note, my higher education was in disability advocacy, namely mental health, and patient navigation. So a huge percentage of my education was around psychology, behaviors, goal setting, and getting people to understand what they wanted and why and what they could do for themselves to get there, then goal setting and connecting to resources. So now I am navigating myself. Professionally I went back to insurance and I like legal work and contracts. I’m a geek. It gets exhausting trying to get people to pull their heads out of their asses.
I think that’s the trick Cyn. We cannot help people who will not help themselves.
They are slaves to the system.
So true.
Also of note. People turn on what scares them instead of trying to understand. Your mother does this I think because the truth is painful. It is easier to erase it than to empathize and acknowledge how much horror has happened to you. They can’t cope.
It all comes out in the wash.
It will indeed. I told her that tonight.
I know that story way to well.
Only the other day I was taking to a woman. Shed not even met the guy but he was doing the hot/cold trick. Going on months.
Intelligent and thoughtful as she was, she was behaving in a manner which was daft as a brush. She asked why? Why am I picking these guys up?
I told her, shed picked up a N and she was a E. End of. I gently pointed out to her she was doing a NC all wrong. I then link her to HGs first article on NC.
She comes back. I’ve been attracting narcs, she says.
Ok. Go to NS and talk to HG. He will sort you out.
Others wade on. A utterly useless YouTube link and another posts a ‘ten narc behaviours’. By now, I’m banging my head against the wall.
Shes completely ignored HG and is now going with random bollocks.
I didnt comment again. Shes not ready. Yet.
I’d say, do what you enjoy. Youte doing great.
Ha! The 10 behaviors BS. You are so right. Hers of course only has 9. She has a few more devals to go and if she survives maybe she will come full circle back to NS for a beautiful bitch slap.
HG was just telling me about miracles being on his CV. This ability to connect empaths with one another is one.
Thing is, most often you get someone who, when I’ve pointed them here, they come back and go FUUUCCKKK! Then orf they go to read and read and read.
Well if miracles are on HGs CV, then he could really be a sweetheart and wave his wand for me. My heart aches all the time for my children. When it was just us three, we were happy.
One of my happiest memories is when we had a rose fight. We were testing the dropping heads of a Bush and throwing them at each other. They would explode on contact. Showering ourselves with rose petals. Laughter ringing out. True joy.
In the Section 7 when the children were interviewed, they were full of praise for my parenting. They wanted to see me. I think when you remove children from their loving parent it is a huge crime against the natural order. You CANNOT think that you are going to get away with it. It will come out and when it does, the results will be catastrophic. If I can be allowed to speak.
Be quiet and stealthy. You will win. It will take time. Your children will feel you hanging on. Things do come full circle. Remind yourself that even the most fucked up parents have rights. If they are playing that card on you remember your rights. Use the fraction of time you can fight for to influence them. Also Tina Swithin has quite a story.
I’ll look her up, Cyn. Thankyou x
I’m so sorry this has happened to you. I am also glad you know it’s not you. That is what will carry you. You will have conviction.
Thankyou. Over this past year I’ve wondered if there was anything I could have done to stop it. Logically, I know there wasnt. And it wasn’t even that I was alone. My ex was actively pushing me into a breakdown by his handling of the divorce and the kids. He knew it was going to happen.
One day, he said to me, sometimes when I saw you, you looked suicidal. I said to him, if you thought that, why didnt you try to help me?
He went quiet. Clenched his jaw. (His tell). Made me very sad him saying that.
Power. Because it must have made him feel powerful.
Indeed it must.
What has devastated me in all of this, despite being at times very unwell, I did go to Court however I’ve NEVER been able to say to the judge, ‘One day your Hounour, he came home late from work. I’d finished the tea and the children were next door. He said he was late because hed been at a friends. His friend had to talk him out of coming home and raping me to teach me a lesson’
Or again one tea, he had me up against the wall by my neck and was attempting to throttle me.
My children call me liar. My mother calls me a liar. It’s broken my heart. But I am still their mother. I have emails from my son saying he doesn’t want to live there anymore. Still I dud the right thing or do I thought. My PTSD played into his hands. I should have called the police then. I didnt because I was in utter shock. Really shocked and part of me has never recovered. Maybe though something kicked it because I still left him. Would be been very easy to stay.
As I said, mum called me a liar last night. Well, she would, wouldn’t she.
Mum is very typical of a certain type of female who really dont have great earning potential because they dont have academic qualifications. Neither does exs new partner. So even though they know stuff goes on it’s easier to pretend the Survivour is a liar or mistaken.
It’s not the actual crimes that have deeply wounded me, its others not believing me. I’ll always carry that scar. I have no problem with sex or intimacy, thank god so at least I didnt loose that.
My mum is an Empath. I had thought, maybe, we could still have a relationship. But I’m mistaken.
Only a week or so ago, on my birthday, she accused me of abusing my brother. Then got off the phone.
Next morning I get a panicky phone call from her. Shes upstairs, away from dad.
Are you ok, she said. Are we ok?
Yup. (Cos I know she was manipulated into saying that)
Got to go, your dad will be wanting me soon.
You do understand I have never abused my brother?
Oh yes.
I knew she was under his thumb but that’s royally ripping the piss. That kind of behaviour could tip someone over the edge. In guessing that’s the motivation behind it.
Ha ha! Fucking Gs. Both of you at it.
Hasn’t worked. Wont work. Will never work. Honestly keep on. You’re only adding more evidence to my portfolio.
Thought you guys were meant to be clever? Cos frankly, you’re looking desperate and that’s not a great look on the aware.
I understand that horrible shock, and the pain when the people that should back are the ones who betray you when you need them most. The ones who should know you. But we must create our own families. Cut out people who don’t feed your growth.
Your son will come around. He’s in denial. Protective mechanism.
Thanks Cyn. You dont know how I need to hear that at times.
Also keep in mind when dealing with courts that you have to be two steps ahead. Know what you will be countered on. Do not leave any holes. Argue against yourself to find any. Also know that even if you appear to lose there is always a work around. Go around. Children do get taken from loving parents. There are shitty endings. You have to accept that so you can find out HOW it happens and work around it. Know your opponent and work around.
I just beat narc 2 again by being a step ahead. Now nothing to bring me to his attention in 2 months for car registration and he will have nothing in hand to hold as a weapon. Lol. Changed address on car registration we are both on and prepaid tags so he will never get renewal notice. He can’t do the same because he doesn’t know what address to change it from if he wanted to.
Clever lady. X
Renarde, That is a beautiful memory and if I were you I would write out what you want to say to a judge and include that. Talk about what it does to children to lose their mother. Talk about the effects on a mother, any mother, especially one who has been abused then traumatized further with the loss of her children. If that’s not enough to cause a suicide attempt I don’t know what is. I have been there. However your children need you. Even if not in your care right now. You are their only hope. You can’t let them be abused too. You do have the right to speak.
Am I the only one who finds it difficult to read about SM? I don’t often look at KTN insta because of this. It makes me feel like I’m in on some secret agenda. I obviously hope that all works out HG, that the therapy and commitment to a new dynamic results in a mutually positive outcome but the idea of what this woman is genuinely feeling (and what you are not feeling) causes me unease 🙁
I’m not sure Joanne any of this is true, he is a great storyteller and in time I’m sure he will also be known as the number 1 storyteller of all times! I would love to believe this relationship will last a lifetime, but even with HGs awareness and intelligence that is still very hard to believe. Perhaps in time if he would explain it all to her the love she has for him ( after the initial shock ) will see her trying to learn and understand his world as he tries to learn and understand hers? None of us can tell what the future holds, I guess we all will have to wait and see.
It is entirely true. Pictures were posted on instagram last weekend.
Yes HG, and we all believe what we see on Instagram! Pfffft!
So you didn’t see trees, a lodge, mountains, brilliant blue sky, a large lake, a beck?
I did see those things HG, but what I didn’t see was a time stamp on the pictures or you and SM sitting under the stars.
I took a picture of us under the stars. Guess what it showed – darkness, not a lot of point in posting that.
HG I have been taught, by what I believe is one of the, if not the most intelligent man in world to always follow the evidence! Not excuses.
Good.
Look at you, all full of logic FM1T!! 😉
Yes Joanne it’s hard fir me to believe also! Lol
Another thing HG! I just have you credit in a previous comment about being the smartest man in the world. Well I really don’t think the smartest man in the world would be outside laying on the ground after killing a snake of the size you did earlier in the day. Actually it wouldn’t matter to me how much I loved you, you would not get me out there laying on the ground after that! I know SM is a Viking warrior, but come on!!
Read the article again to see what we were lying on.
If the veranda was level with the ground, I still would not be lying there. That snake was huge!!
Foolme—your post referencing the snake cracks me up. One situation occurred with a bat tonight and a patient. I can’t give details as is a once in a lifetime thing—I can’t be implicated. But.. I had a guy bitten by a snake and he brought it in for me to see. Was hoping it was dead upon his reach into a duffel bag. It was. All in one night. I’m fried. I am convinced we are no longer crazy after what I’ve seen tonight in general.
I tried to tell you it wasn’t us that was crazy! Lol
I didn’t flinch though any of it. Like stone faced. Living with nonsense for years conditioned me well!
God that purple river with the sunset in the background was magical. It looked like an enchanted forest. I want to live, die and be buried there.
I am sure that can be arranged, Desiree!
Where is this? Did a search with various combinations of KTN, insta, narc, etc. Couldn’t find it.
Where is what?
Pics of mountain camping, etc.
They are on Instagram.
What’s the link?
If this is one of your tests, I have already flunked.
Go to my instagram page, use your fingers to scroll and your eyes to see.
Found something with HG Tudor and Instagram, not KTN, which others referenced. It is private. So this is your test to see if readers are devoted enough to sign up (if they have not already) and log in.
No it’s called building a following which will increase prominence and therefore extend the reach of my work, which is necessary.
Fair enough. I’ve already posted comments on other sites referring readers to your articles. Just wish your blog had existed when my LLN was draining me. It’s embarrassing to have been exploited by someone so unworthy.
Thank you for referring people to my work it’s appreciated
Someone needs to show Prince Harry your Sept. 8 post, “Tell me what I want to hear.” It is TEXTBOOK perfect on what Meghan Markle did, including stalking him and his family for years to find out how to play him, then pretending she “didn’t know much about” them. She named her blog The Tig, supposedly after a wine–nothing to do with Nanny Tiggy Legge-Burke?There are shots of her copying Diana’s outfits in frightening detail.
He’s clearly in Devalue now: dressed like a homeless person in a rumpled, ill-fitting suit with tatty shoes, his bald spot rapidly expanding and circled with an untrimmed monk-like fringe, hesitant to play with (supposedly) his own child, when he has been comfortable playing with complete strangers for years. More than one person has admitted to having more respect for him when he was the Bad Boy getting drunk with Vegas showgirls. Other end of the Class System, but it’s reminiscent of Liverpudlian thug Lennon being humbly grateful when his family jewels and financial assets were co-opted by Yoko Ono, a woman who claimed not to know anything about the Beatles, and who had also done her research (stalking). Now THERE’S a voice to make Celine Dion’s sound like a choir of angels.
FM1T
I’m glad to see that you still question. That means you are letting your LT in.
Joanne,
Yes, feeling very much the same. Putting myself in this woman’s place, assuming she is also empathetic, I’m so afraid that she is going to get hurt.
The problem is that a lot of us are in her situation. Perhaps not as exciting as SM right now but we have discovered we are with a N. It is so hard to just get up and leave The emotional abuse just starts to be a part of your daily life and you get used to it. It’s a shame . I can never go through life not having any emotions or love for people ,animals etc. It is sad. HG looks like he is treating here well at the moment and who knows what the future holds.
I feel things just reading it. Like legitimately I read it 2 times and my heart… what I’d give for someone to hold me like that under the stars… just goes to prove I will never be able to get rid of my ET.
I did have a moment reading a book tonight on my couch though …. by myself incredibly peaceful… and I thought… I could never have this much peace and tranquillity living with a narc. That they would destroy me of all of my contentment reading my book… and in that moment. I felt so relieved I made the decision to leave.
So there is some light at the end of the tunnel after all.
e007
I don’t think people like us will ever be rid of ET. Yes, it can be managed and you’re doing a good job of it. You will find someone to gaze at the stars with, someone who can genuinely share in a romantic moment with you and feel all the things you feel. In the meantime, enjoy those moments of peace and contentment knowing things will keep getting better the further removed he is from your life 😘
You’re first two sentences are correct
What about the rest of it HG? Or am I just unloveable 😭 hahaha (I’m kidding)
Yes. I can’t get rid of it completely. It’s in my nature… but I’m still going to mostly blame it on the messages Hollywood gave girls growing up in the 90s lol.
I’m thinking SM is upper crust, maybe comes from a wealthy family, which might give her a superiority that would make her stronger with less to lose, that would help her move on more easily if she had to, and that keeps her more active socially than just depending on HG to fulfill her. If so, then their time together is spent with both working on their own things in each other’s company, and makes them able to enjoy each other with less pressures. And she wouldn’t be sitting around waiting for him to return from his travels imagining scenarios because she’s too busy with her own career and friends and obligations. She’s a winner herself, busy with her own life, and that makes their time together more for pleasure and less demanding.
Those are some hefty assumptions, kel. I am sure SM is of high socioeconomic status and has her own social circle, professional network etc. While this theory assumes she won’t be left isolated and in financial ruin, there is no way to quantify the emotional devastation that she could be left with if this does go according to “new dynamic” plans. Not to compare situations, but I felt emotionally wrecked in the aftermath of my brief affair. I cannot even imagine if I had been seduced and discarded by a greater narc, taken on trips, given gifts etc etc.
I meant upper crust in that they have to maintain a certain composure as per their rigid rules of proper behavior in their upbringing. Having a six figure income didn’t spare some celebrities from temporarily nose diving, but a proper breeding would help keep someone on a level course. Not that she’s immune, but that she’s got plenty of high standards of conduct and an important job that requires her focus, and the money to flee anywhere to get away and freshen her mind. HG indicates she’s a strong person, I’m just saying she has the upbringing probably and the resources to take the blow and deal with it, also she’s a super empath.
Correction I meant seven figure income.
Fair points. We should all be so lucky 😉
Meh, I don’t know, too many rules and restrictions in the upper crust. Boring, too worried about legionnaires disease, not wearing blue shirts, only writing on a certain weight of paper, having pet names but not for their appendages, can’t step foot into an Ikea store, I just couldn’t stand it.
Splurge on a once in a lifetime trip, change your hair or your wardrobe, change your personality, change your hobbies, be the person you always wanted to be and don’t care what anyone else thinks. ET is what got us into our mess, but it’s not a lifetime commitment.
Well said, kel. 😂😂😂 Legionnaires disease!!! That cracked me up. Yes, we lower crust peasants have better things to worry about than contracting LD via dormant shower pipes 😂😂😂
Silence over there and get back down the pit!
To the dungeon! 🕷
HG
Legionnaires disease is scary; I worry about bed bugs.
🤣🤣
Kel, to be upper crust, one isn’t allowed pet names for one’s appendage? You’ve piqued my curiosity. Do tell…
And please, for the love of all things holy, no more scrotum talk 😂
MB
Katherine McChesney posted some salacious gossip about Megan on A Very Royal Narcissist.
K, are you saying I need to go over there to find my appendage answer? I’ll have to check later!
MB
ha ha ha….just wait until you read it! It’s juicy.
Or we should all work so hard! 💰
MB, see in Pets above the scrotum talk, lol. I have given pet names to appendages before, like Butch, but HG doesn’t think they should have names as if they’re separate entities, although to me, they are rather animated. He insists they should only be referred to as cock or penis or maybe nob (yuck), and one should not ever ask if it wants to come out and play.
Kel, thank you for pointing me in the right direction. I enjoyed that exchange! I must agree with HG and K. It’s a cock if the context is sexual. I’ve never spoken to one as a separate entity. It’s a penis if the context is other than that.
MB, you guys are funny. I don’t talk to the cock. I talk to my boyfriend and sometimes I might ask if Butch wants to come out and play, meaning, do you want to have sex? Just playful, and they seem to like talking dirty that way. I have no reason to really ever say cock or penis in that reference, as I might also ask, Do you wanna go do it? They usually do, and they seem to have no problems with their thingy having a nickname. (Raspberry, Lol)
Kel, it’s a phone sex/sexting thing mostly. (Those days are gone.) Not real life as much. My husband and I just have “the look” to communicate when it’s sexy time. This has been an entertaining exchange. Maybe Butch will want to come out and play soon.
It’s very hard to tell you what I think you should do HG, you have been in my head for years now, I know what you have taught us and that is fuel is the rule! Of course I think you should be honest and tell her what you really see and feel, I just know by what I have been taught, that you won’t. You cannot risk her leaving and ruining your ultimate plan, which you have said that she is now a part of.
“I felt a sneer of contempt form on my lips as I contemplated the ignorant hordes who would be staring at pavement, turf and foam rather than lifting their heads and drinking in this vista. ´Twas ever thus. They always look the wrong way”– SO NASTY. I laughed HEARTILY at this. IT’s a male me.! Also, this soft porn intro ‘sit between my legs’ will make your STANS/groupies a mite jealous. Carry on!
Soft porn intro? You need help!
I suspect you’re right.
soft porn .. only the seducing was the play on words to draw us in. Cerebral seducing perhaps.. the best kind of soft porn(?) Always feeling out your target.. (?). Gaging your readers intellect(?).
Shall we call them Easter eggs.. 😉
I did not hear an ounce of almost emotion, only for yourself that you could not enjoy the sky such as SM. Your focus quickly focuses on all you need and want in terms of gathering your fuel, in that perfect moment of possibilities. I’m proud you chose to gather the positive.. as the negative is truly much more satisfying.
So glad I’m not the only one that thought was going to take a turn towards the naughty lol. I kept scanning but it didn’t…
Oh, come on….!
“Her positive fuel washed all over me”.
Something, something ….plug hole.
Oh wow that’s some telescope.
No mention of Uranus though, disappointingly.
Read between the lines:
He ploughed through the Milky Way with Big Dipper.
😂
Awe…HG. You twisted soul. Her heart would probably bleed if she knew.
Your writing is beautiful as always, HG. But these stories about the people in your life are so heartbreaking for me to read. It sounds like Shieldmaiden really loves you. And she is probably a wonderful person, or you wouldn’t have chosen her. I can imagine her sitting there with you, believing everything you say, and believing that you are actually giving her the love she deserves. Even though I don’t know her or any of your previous victims, I feel a kinship with them. I have been there. Ensnarement with a narcissist is such a unique experience that you can only understand it if you have been through it. I remember being wrapped up in a narcissist’s arms and believing I had found my soulmate and that he loved me unconditionally, and that it was safe to be vulnerable with him. Then he blindsided me and destroyed my soul. Your work has saved my life, and for that I am extremely grateful. I will always share your work with others who have suffered as I have. But while you saved my life, you have undoubtedly damaged others and will likely continue to do so. And there is nothing anyone can do about it.
She can’t really love him; she doesn’t know him. She loves what he pretends to be.
Violetta.
She can’t really love him; she doesn’t know him. She loves what he pretends to be.
AAAHHHH and there is the central problem for anyone romantically ensnared by a N. Not even romantically but ensnared at all. They are not ever what they appear to be……unless it benefits them with control, fuel or both.
As long as he has self awareness, and chooses his position, does it matter if she knows. In a typical relationship, there’s cruelty, selfishness etc. If she never learns, and he makes choices based on cognitive behavior, it could be successful. You can never know the true depth of someone’s love. It’s all perception anyways.
Regardless of what really made you feel or what you felt, Shieldmaiden and you still had a wonderful night together.
Do you feel music though? Does it stir anything inside you?
Celine Dion stirs unbridled hatred.
Hi HG, I don’t know if you have already answered this previously but why don’t you like her? She seems like an empath.
Personally I have never bought any of her music because the way her voice registers in my ears seems nasal. But experts say that she has the perfect voice.
I find her too angular.
Thank you HG! I had to look up what angular means. I’m learning new words here each day. 😊
Celine Dion is corny. She’s processed cheese. It’s rather straightforward.
Good point. Real, unprocessed cheese is complex.
Ha! Well unfortunately I can relate….
Now, now, I do the mirroring here Cyn.
She looks like a cricket.
No! I mean a grasshopper!
Well, you have company there.
I think Celine’s manager turned husband was weird.
Is he no longer weird?
He died so past tense!
Thank you for clarifying. Did he die of boredom?
He was basically a pervert. She was a child at first and he waited to have a relationship. He died rich, but bored who knows?
Was he a deaf pervert?
Did I write deaf? I just woke up. I’m going to the gym—you go off and order SM some Lorac lip gloss. She will love it.
Balls to that. You order it and I will tell you where to send it.
She would be so happy! Never mind the joy from the marula oil. You need to shower her with stuff.
When a narcissist has an affair does that mean the primary source is painted less favorably than white? Or is it simply acquiring a different flavor of ice cream?
It means the IPPS is in devaluation.
So then we are painted Black! As Michael Jackson said it doesnt Matter if your black or white.