The Narcissist’s Understanding and Use of Tears – Part One

TEARS - PART ONE

Tears. One might consider them the ultimate embodiment of emotion. Tears appear when you have experienced some kind of extreme emotion. I know because I have watched on so many occasions as I have sought to understand the circumstances in which somebody cries and why it is that they do so.

I understand that when tears appear, whether it is a welling-up in the eyes, the single full teardrop which slides down a cheek or the cascading waterfall which leaves the eyes red-rimmed and blurry, it is as a consequence of you experiencing emotion in a huge dosage. What I had to learn was which emotions were associated with the emission of water from the eyes.

The first emotion that presented itself for my understanding as to how it caused tears was pain. I remembered as a child that my younger brother was somewhat accident prone. If there was tree branch he would fall off it, if there was a wall, he would fall off it and once he even managed to “fall” off a rug and sprain his ankle. The cuts and bruises would have him howling in pain as he lay there sobbing or limped away tears trickling down his face in search of our father.

I saw how a physical injury such as a scraped leg or bruised forearm would bring forth a flood of tears. My younger brother would await the attendance of my concerned father, usually brought to the scene by my always caring sister and his tears would be wiped away with a large white handkerchief as consolation and soothing words were administered. I was not accident prone and therefore rarely susceptible to physical injury save the deliberate. I do recall once catching my hand on the edge of the grill and instantly a sore red weal appeared. I presented myself to my nearby mother as I felt the tears forming in my eyes.

“No tears HG,” she announced firmly, “tears show fears, be fearless,” she instructed me as she cast a cursory glance over my injury and directed me to the cold water tap. Tears came from physical hurt but it was not to be for me.

Around the same time I also understood that tears were generated by sadness and it was sister who exhibited this the most. I would find her in one of her many hiding places (I knew them well as I used them myself) and she would be quietly crying. I would ask her why she was crying because I wanted to know. Thinking back, I never felt anything other than curiosity when I saw her with puffy eyes and tear-stained cheeks.

“Why are you crying Rachael?” I would ask.

“Mother shouted at me because I hadn’t tidied my room, she said I was a bad and dirty girl and I don’t like her saying that to me, it upsets me.”

I would nod in understanding and walk away, leaving her alone. She was instructive in showing me that sadness caused tears. Her rabbit escaped from its hutch and went missing so she cried because she missed it.

She missed a birthday party because she was ill so she cried because she was sad that she could not play with the other children. If she watched something on television she would often be in tears as she felt bad for the starving children in Africa or the victims of some earthquake. She would cry and ask my father why God did these things and he would do his best to comfort her and explain.

He was always good at finding an explanation, but he was a very bright man, well-read and with a keen hunger for knowledge which he invariably retained. There was at least something that I had inherited from him then. I would watch in fascination as Rachael would cry and he would scoop her up and make gentle noises to try to soothe her. Just as he laid a gentle hand on my sobbing injured brother, I saw how this demonstration of tears, be it through physical or emotional hurt engendered sympathy and caring from him.

He never rejected them, he never barked at them to deal with it or get on with it, but he would always pander to their upset until he had chased it away and made them feel better. It always got them attention from him, more than I ever did. All they had to do was cry and the sympathy would flow with the attendant attention. I learned that quickly enough.

I, by contrast, never recall feeling sad. I have tried and the good doctors have asked me about this on numerous occasions.

“How did you feel when something bad happened to you?” Dr E would ask.

“What do you mean by bad?” I often have to help him provide some context to his questions. I thought he would have learned by now.

“If you did something wrong for example.”

“I was well-behaved as I child. I did as I was told. I saw what happened if I did not.”

“I see, did your parents ever tell you off?”

“Yes.”

“How did you feel then?”

“Resentful, angry, determined,” I answered quickly.

“Sad?”

“No.”

“Upset?”

“No.”

“How about after the incident?”

I glared at Dr E as I did not like him springing that on me without adequate warning. At least he had remembered to refer to it by the label I required. I remained silent.

“Did you not feel sad after that?”

“No.”

“How did you feel?”

I paused. I did not want to revisit this but I knew he would not stop until he had extracted something from me. He would prod and probe in order to fulfil his selfish desire to know how I felt. I felt empty and I felt angry but I had realised by now that if I told him this he would only go on even longer. The truth would not serve me here. I remained still and silent.

“How did you feel?”

I noticed his tone had become gentler, more searching.

I then thought of all the injustices that I had ever suffered, the hurt that had been meted out against me, the denial of my brilliance, the shunning of my achievements, the lack of recognition when I deserved so much more. I focused on the times when I had been ignored by the foolish, the fact that I am consigned to an unending quest for fuel. I brought to the fore the hurt that I keep under control except for moments such as this and I banished the room and Dr E from my mind as I allowed the floodgates to open.

The desired effect eventually came, although it took some time and I eventually felt the welling in my eyes. I blinked theatrically to ensure that Dr E noticed and finally I felt a tear, only a small one though, squeeze out and make it was beneath my eye. I brushed at my other eye, features set in melancholy and still I said nothing. Dr E remained quiet as well as I stared at the floor willing another tear to join the first and thankfully it too finally came and rolled downward, a larger one this time which landed on my left thigh. He will have seen that. I did not look at him but concentrated on the floor still, summoning up all of the hurt I could muster in the hope of maintaining this appearance.

“I can see it is troubling you, perhaps we should move on. We can revisit this at a later time,” he said softly.

I nodded.

Those early observations of how the crying game worked had paid off once again.

43 thoughts on “The Narcissist’s Understanding and Use of Tears – Part One

  1. AnneB says:

    H.G., so for the mid range N who spouts tears without the effort you apply for conscious manipulation…that would be his/her instinct driving the crying? Trying to articulate the question…if say the MRN is in a situation where they sense a loss of control and crying is used to gain sympathy fuel and then regain control, would it be a surge of self pity or sense of being wronged that causes the tears to flow? The N feels self pity as painful and this just immediately triggers the tears?

    This is one area where the ex had nothing to show. I don’t know if he ever cries or has cried in the past before I knew him but I never saw him cry and cannot imagine him crying tbh. He used to to say sometimes “I can be a cold fish”, when very occasionally a lack of response really stood out.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      The sense of being wronged and sense of pity will trigger the tears and be the justification for the response. The MMR does not think “I know, I do not feel like I have control here, so I will cry and this will make people feel sorry for me, so I will have control again.” He thinks “Why am I being wronged in this way, when I have been wronged, this is so unfair.” The tears flow, people respond, he gains fuel and control and all is all right in the world of the narcissist.

      Until the next threat to control.

    2. AnneB says:

      Thank you H.G. That’s clear now I think. Control is the aim of the unconscious narcissism, but it is the MRN’s sense of having it tough, being wronged, misunderstood etc that actually triggers the tears.

  2. Liza says:

    Mr.HG can i have your opinion on a theory?

    you say that a childe becomes a narcissist if they have the appropriate gene and had been abused early in their lifes. so is it possible that narcissists are highly sensitive people in the begining?
    what leads me to think that is :
    1) your siblings didn’t turn into narcissists because they were shielded by your dad, and in general families who have narcissists have also empaths.
    2) it takes a high sensitivity to be so affected by abuse to the point were one gives up a whole range of emotions to be able to cope.
    3) plus a person who is psychopathic to begin with, does not recognise fear so they wouldn’t be affected by abuse that much, they may be antisocial merely because they were not thought how to act ocrrectly but they wouldn’t strugle with the creature.

    or, the other hypothesis, is that there are two versions of that gene, and you either have the one that codes narcissisme or the one that codes high sensitivity. that can also explain why families with narcissists have also empaths.

    1. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

      Liza. I think you have touched on an important, but complex observation regarding innate sensitivity in certain children, and their possible higher inclination towards NPD, when they are pushed too far. Look at how artistic HG is. His art selections, his writing, his poetry, his speaking voice, his musical interests, his singing voice, his taste, his grooming, his interviews. etc, and the list goes on. I would wager that even his devaluations and his malice are acted upon artistically, and are well choreographed.

      But, how does one measure sensitivity in a child. Something needs to be done on behalf of any children, and early in their life, to intervene for them in society, by the multitude of mental workers all about, and in a positive and beneficial way, but the mental workers usually come to the fore only after the damage is done, most of the time, and even then, many often do not help matters very much. Some make matters worse and put the children on drugs like lithium and such.

      But, I will not hold my breath waiting for this change, towards mental workers` advocacy actions on behalf of very young children, to happen.

      1. Liza says:

        PSE,
        i agree that even if studies demonstrate exactly how a narcissist is made, that doesn’t give any solution to avoid creating them, since abuse occurs most of the time inside hoseholdes were no one is there to protect the childe.

      2. Violetta says:

        Princess:
        The mental workers might abuse the power, and go around labeling anyone who doesn’t fit their ideals “maladjusted.” They might miss the actual Narcs, because narcs can fake normal better than normal or dweeby empath types. I knew a total sociopath in elementary school: pathological liar, kleptomaniac, hypocrite, blackmailer. She was never in trouble because she knew exactly how to play the teachers. Rhoda in The Bad Seed and Cathy in East of Eden are pretty good depictions. The Dolores Umbridges of the world never spot them, or maybe because their own virtue is simulated, they are comfortable with simulation in others.

        1. Liza says:

          Violetta,
          ha ha it is me the girl who never gets punished, but i swear i don’t lie, teachers just assume that i’m quiet even when i was talking, and when someone tells directly that i was the one to talk i don’t get punished either.

    2. Violetta says:

      We’re back to Screwtape. It’s relatively easy to snare mediocre, petty souls, but a far greater triumph to bag someone with the potential to be a great sinner or a great saint.

      I’ve een reading Henry VIII’s “Defense of the Seven Sacraments.” If the translation is true to the Latin, he was not only brilliant in logic but had a wonderfully snide prose style. He refers to Luther as “this new saint,” mentions the opinions Luther has “vomited,” and mocks the many times Luther enthusiastically adopts one opinion before adopting its opposite with equal enthusiasm–something Henry was all too soon to do himself.

      O, what a noble mind is here o’erthrown.

  3. candacemarie says:

    HG this was very interesting to me. Does anyone in your family know you have this blog?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      No.

  4. HB says:

    I was married to a narcissist for 11 years and in relationship with him for 13 years total. We have 3 children. In the beginning I was his “fairy tale”, he flew me to see him, took me to fancy restaurants, told me I was the most amazing woman he had ever met, knew from the first time he saw me that I was going to be his “2nd wife”…. Surprisingly and for many various reasons and red flags, that I should have heeded, the relationship ended up not being a fairy tale for me. Still though I allowed myself to be wooed and manipulated into believing that “it didn’t work without me” and we embarked upon the journey of building a family.

    I thought I was going crazy in the beginning and life’s circumstances (mentioned above) had become rather unusual and so it was easy for me to think that because life had become so difficult that I must have been analyzing and responding to life wrong. Why else would I always feel like I was crazy when I had never felt this way before? Why did I feel like I could never do anything right or get the attention I so desperately needed to be happy? What happened? I must be going crazy. He’s right. “He knew who I really was”… what did I know of myself? I wasn’t happy and I had some very good and legitimate reasons for not being happy but yet none of my attempts at actual conversation every went anywhere. Eventually I just gave in and decided that if I was going to be here, that I might as well be happy about it and make the best of it. Like clock work, and what felt like in that exact moment, the tables turned. He knew he had me and it felt like from that moment on the effort was completely devoid. He was unwilling to give into anything I wanted, to discuss even the smallest, forget the biggest detail of planning a life and a future because he did what he wanted and i was marginalized. Things were fine as long as I was willing to be happy with what he was willing to give. If I asked for even an inch more than he was doing I got the silent treatment and/or I was reminded that I am flawed and need to go back to my room until i realize what I had done wrong and come back when ready to make it right.

    Fast forward about 7-8 years and I began to see the forest through the trees. I began to see how everything was always “black or white” and how I always felt like I was “bad” and needed to change to make the narcissist happy again. When I would try and address anything he would “lawyer” with me and i couldn’t keep up. Even after I gained the ability to point conversations back to where they started, then a new side entered; Angry, word salad man. Accusations. Paranoia. Insanity. Surprisingly (?) in the midst of this, a second period of honeymoon stage entered and everything was lovely again, like it was in the brief beginning, but the honeymoon turned bleak and things got really out of hand. Drugs, alcohol abuse, leaving for days at a time forcing me to figure out life with a full-time job and 3 small kids with essential zero help from the outside world. All he wanted was sex.

    I finally found the courage and the resources to divorce him and leave. I left the day after Christmas last year and the divorce finalized in February this year. It was too easy. No arguments. No insults (other than save a few), no fight for the kids. Just a standard divorce decree. I won, wow, this was much easier than i thought. Why didn’t I leave years ago?!!!

    Wow. Was I wrong! Months after the divorce finalized, he found out that I was seeing someone. The abuse and the hoovering haven’t stopped. Perhaps periods of time go by where I have the strength not to respond and defend myself but inevitably something comes up and I have no choice but to unblock him and then it all starts all over again: constant threats regarding the children and our custody arrangement fly through text messages and email (none of which I believe because he can’t even keep them on his current court ordered days, but still he persists), accusations, character attacks, dragging up the past, blaming, terrible insults, flat out lies and misrepresentations of the truth CRAZY MAKING. He makes me feel like my head is going to explode. In his mind he had nothing to do with the shitty marriage we had. He was perfect and blameless. I was his fairy tale and I was a fraud and a phony for not living up to his expectations. He is a decent man who has been wronged by the universe. He has said so many many things that sound so much like what you write about. He has said that he gave me the gift of love and that because i wouldn’t accept it, the universe is and will punish me for it.

    I would say to him all the time throughout our marriage “must be nice to live in such a black and white world” – hence why i am writing this after reading your article. I have learned so much about what I was dealing with through your blog. Thank you. I am not sure if he is a greater narcissist, mid narcissist or lesser narcissist. Depending on the day, I can see all three. Some days I wonder if I am the narcissist because he really believes that he is the victim here. It’s a roller coaster I wanted off of. Life is harder now without his minimal contributions and being a dual income family, but I would not go back to that for all the tea in china! I will take my freedom at whatever cost and I will finance it for the rest of my life! never again!

    With that said, I had hoped and believed that divorce would end my life sentence to this crazy way of life, but it seems from my own experience and from your writing that I may be up against a life of this BS because we share 3 children. I was trying to find reviews regarding your co-parenting assistance package. I don’t mind spending the money to get some help with avoiding the hoovering and suggestions on how to co-parent if you feel from reading this that I truly may be dealing with a narcissist? I am desperate to understand how to co-parent with an uncooperative, hoovering narcissist who isn’t dependable, who doesn’t do what they should do, who takes the most minute of issues and blows them up to galactic proportions and makes me feel completely uneasy about the simplest of things like a text to ask about scheduling. Our youngest daughter (age 6) doesn’t like being at his house and this ignites his fury. Poor little thing is scared to be herself and say she misses me because he yells at her and berates her for not wanting to be there :-(.

    I have already filed 2 complaints with the police to track the incidents of true harassment that I have endured in the past 6 months. Everything I read that you have written resonates with a resounding OMG, yes. THIS has been my life for the past 13 years!

    This barely scratches the surface, but I think it gives you an idea of things? I am just looking for some hope.

    1. Luna Zirin says:

      Oops. I didn’t think that my actual name was going to be published above. Should I use a pseudo name? I am new to this… I really need to get my feet on solid ground to where I can co-exist with this man without him rocking my boat every other week.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Yes you should. I have removed your real name.

    2. HG Tudor says:

      Welcome HB. Keep reading here to gain understanding and arrange to consult with me so that you make additional progress.

      1. HB says:

        Thanks HG. I have been glued to the screen and to podcasts since I learned of you and your work. I have been seeking truth and understanding for what seems like forever now. The path is neither straight or narrow but you definitely have an incredible handle on things and offer much needed clarity. I will be in touch.

    3. MB says:

      HB, he’s absolutely a Narcissist! My advice would be to get a Narc Detector consultation along with the CoParenting Assistance Package at the same time. You need to know the type of N you are dealing with as it will make everything you do more effective. Plus, the value of validation from HG is significantly more than the price of the ND Consultation. There are some things you are doing that are making the Hoovers worse and more frequent than they need to be and the package will most definitely help you with that. As far as the situation with your youngest daughter, that might require an audio consultation at some point, but do the other two things first and you will be light years ahead of where you are now. You’re in the right place. All of your questions will be answered. You will continue to move forward. Congratulations for taking the steps to get yourself off his Wheel of Misery. Sending strength and love to you and your sweet babies.

      1. NarcAngel says:

        HB

        MB has offered you great advice. I second her recommendations.

        1. MB says:

          Thank you NA.

        2. HB says:

          Thank you NA. I think so too.

      2. HB says:

        MB thank you for responding and for your suggestions. Knowledge is power. I was raised to believe that and in this case it couldn’t prove more true. It shocks me still and makes my head feel all wobbly to think back over the years. I have always been a strong woman and this has and still is testing me to my core. I wake up thinking about him still to this day even though I want nothing to do with him! My older and middle child are fine to visit him but my youngest reels at it. It breaks my heart and in those moments i feel so selfish. I could have and should have done better, even in figuring out the divorce. I wanted out and I didnt want to fight.

        1. MB says:

          HB, read here and post your way through it. You are not alone. You will feel validation and solidarity from the others here. Getting yourself and your children out of an abusive home was far from selfish. Selfish would be staying to feed your own addiction to him. Not fighting turned out to be the way to win. You are a survivor. Never forget that.

  5. Dorion says:

    Unrelated question – I am posting here as it would be just as unrelated anywhere else: why is the background of the blog red now?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Because I changed it.

      1. Dorion says:

        But Santa left early and now it’s painted a new shade of gray? Or something.

    2. MB says:

      It’s for Christmas Dorian. I find it quite festive. It’s helpful to a Scrooge like me!

      1. FoolMe1Time says:

        You are not Scrooge! Far from it MB. Just ask all of the Angels. 🥰

  6. Dorion says:

    I relate to a lot of the two posts about Tears, HG. I personally ofteh think tears are overrated… they are of course some of the most obvious signs of distress in humans, but often the deepest, darkest and most painful frustrations are not expressed in tears and are drown and isolated inside.

    I particularly relate to the lack of sense of sadness and mostly observing it from others. I am capable of feeling very frustrated at the loss of things that matter to me, but not so much the way I see sadness experienced by many/most people. I’ve tried to look at it and to find it in many ways but I am just different in this sense from how the majority seem to experience it. The other main area I relate to is learning about intellectual abilities early on and associating my self-value with that (and the resulting academic achievements) in childhood. That was also a main part of me I’d gotten the most compliments and appreciation for, which naturally reinforced the association. It became so strong that I ended up developing a sense of self and identity largely based on these values and it lasted well into adulthood. The point where it collapsed… well, not really collapsed but got stuck, was where my self-destructiveness got to a point (there were several throughout my life) I could no longer maintain and express those values, could no longer perform on the same level and it created very intense cognitive dissonances between my internal values/identity and performance/manifestation that the resulting misalignment caused me massive and stubborn states of existential crisis. In the end I had no viable choice but to make some very drastic changes both in my lifestyle and in the way I relate to the world and self-identify. The only other possibility could have been suicide, either quickly or as a secondary consequence of self-destruction. But things have never been the same after each crisis. I still have a lot of nostalgia sometimes for my younger self and wish things could just work the same way, but they don’t. I often liken the experience to shifting through some wormholes in space-time – you kinda get to a similar point after, but never the same perceived reality.

    A big difference though (and I believe it is a very important one in how our personalities develop) is that my parents were almost always very supportive and encouraged to explore my own interests and whatever I wanted from life. My had had strong narcissistic traits but he actually used me to express and and gain attention to a lot of things he hadn’t achieved in his own life. Sort of like a trophy to show: “here, this is my bloodline and my creation”. I had a lot of freedom, little direction, and almost no discipline in childhood. That can also have difficult consequences, e.g. I had to learn all discipline (that are often taught/expected of children by parents) on my own as a teenager and adult, and still struggle with it at times. Too much freedom also gets in the way and can create problems. I guess narcissists often develop to antagonize and correct the restrictions imposed on them early on, they develop a way of dealing with things that denies authority and anything but self-interest. I kinda had the opposite developmental process: sort of a sense of being invincible and unlimited early on, then trying to learn how to fit in, consider external feedback, and just be a reasonably decent member of society. But I was not like that in my youth, I was more the one seducing others I wanted into my complicated, eccentric worlds… very successfully. I am still very much an individualist but much much less eccentric than earlier in life. This serves my goals and sense of identity better now.

    I am writing about these things here because I experienced in my encounters with narcissistic people these developmental processes to be quite similar, but progressing in opposite directions. Sometimes we kinda meet at points in the evolution that is not too far, and that is when I tend to get along with those people quite well, I think – we can learn from each-other. When the narcissism is too dominant though and the narc is truly resistant to change (as you have also alluded to many times, HG), that is usually not a good combination with me. What’s interesting though HG is that I don’t get the impression via this blog that you are so resistant to change, or at least not resistant to exploring and giving a chance to new approaches. You don’t come across closed-minded. Is this also just calculation and manipulation? Maybe many of the ways you use your environment, relationship patterns etc are highly repetitive, but the way you analyze and understand things does not seem rigid very to me.

    Using tears to elicit sympathy and superficial relating has never occurred to me, usually I much prefer to relate based on strengths and positive things, how we overcome challenges… I don’t like to commiserate and to find company via suffering much. But that’s just another form of denying/avoiding vulnerability, I think. I could probably count on one hand how many times I cried in the company of anyone else since I was 15 or so.

    I am really digressing now, so will stop the long ramble. Just wanted to share some impressions. All this is intriguing.

  7. cogra002 says:

    I’m skeptical about this Dr doing u much good, I just don’t see where he’s headed, but anyway….

    When you Write:

    ”I then thought of all the injustices that I had ever suffered, the hurt that had been meted out against me, the denial of my brilliance, the shunning of my achievements, the lack of recognition when I deserved so much more. I focused on the times when I had been ignored by the foolish”

    It’s sounds to me that was actually done to you growing up, and it wasn’t cool at all. The frustration level of this type of thing Is off the charts. I hate this, myself.
    I wonder why it was, though.

    1. NarcAngel says:

      Cogra002
      You wonder why what was? HG’s mother is a Narc if that helps.

      1. cogra002 says:

        Ya but it was just HG, the brother and sister seemed gave Gwen treated in a more affectionate, nurturing manner. Just saying…

    2. Violetta says:

      .”I’m skeptical about this Dr doing u much good, I just don’t see where he’s headed”

      It’s the Rogers Method, cogra002, and you have reason to be skeptical. Here is how it is to be perpetrated:

      “One useful technique is to listen carefully to what the client is saying and then try to explain to him/her what you think he/she is telling you in your own words. This can not only help you clarify the client’s point of view, it can also help the client understand his/her feelings better and begin to look for a constructive way forward.”

      a therapist must “sense the hurt or pleasure of another as he senses it, and to perceive the causes thereof as he perceives them
      Reflection of Feelings: repeating what the client has shared about his or her feelings; this lets the client know the therapist is listening actively and understanding what the client is saying, as well as giving them an opportunity to further explore their feelings.

      Open Questions: this technique refers to the quintessential “therapist” question – “How does that make you feel?” Of course, that is not the only open question that can be used in client-centered therapy, but it is a good open question that can encourage clients to share and be vulnerable.

      Paraphrasing: therapists can let clients know that they understand what the clients have told them by repeating what they have said back to them in the therapist’s own words; this can also help the client to clarify their feelings or the nature of their problems.

      Rogers Method crap always annoyed me even when I was 9-years-old and on hyper meds:

      Shrink: How did it make you feel when that gang of kids beat you up?
      Me: How did it make you feel when I just kicked your shin?

      Shrink: Were you angry when Jenny said her mom wouldn’t let her play with you anymore?
      Me: Were you angry when I threw your ashtray at the wall?

      Shrink: What do you suppose it means when you have nightmares about trains?
      Me: What do you suppose it means that you smoke that big pipe?

      I didn’t know the term “Schadenfreud,” but I sure understood the concept. I don’t know what kind of sadist would pretend this shit is therapeutic instead of provoking, but James Barrie understood it well enough in the 19th century:

      “You are not angry any more?” pleaded the Egyptian.

      “Angry!” he cried, with the righteous rage of one who when his leg is being sawn off is asked gently if it hurts him.

      It also ignores cultural differences. There are cultures where you scream and tear your hair to express grief, but you don’t say, “I’m upset.” There are those where you cuss a blue streak to show rage, but if someone were to say (in a soothing voice), “You seem angry,” you’d look at them incredulously and probably want to smack them upside the head. There are those where you express great pride and joy in a child by saying, “Well, that’ll do. Carry on,” (remember the farmer in Babe?) because if you were more effusive, your kids would think you’d been taken over by space aliens. One Brit writer said if his parents had hugged him and said they loved him, he’d have called the police.
      It just. Wasn’t. DONE.

      The psychiatric idea of normal seems to be that we all stand around, like that prissy Warner Brothers Martian ant with the Roman helmet and peplum, saying huffily, “You make me angry. [huff huff huff.] Very, VERY ANGRY.”
      Do you know any normal people who actually talk like that?
      How do you think I feel, shitheads?

      1. NarcAngel says:

        V
        Oh theres an actual method? I thought the redundant questions and repeating back of the doctor was to take up more of the hour you’re paying for. If you’re going to be doing all the talking, you may as well save your money and get a dog.

        1. Violetta says:

          No, it’s an idiot theory that holds that the therapist must resist the temptation to give the patient answers, and must be a sympathetic “facilitator” so patients can find the answers themselves. It was adopted by educators and is horribly frustrating: this is why the techniques of Dolores Umbridge and her like are so annoying, because they rely on methods that are supposed to “make people see for themselves” instead of giving them information and some practice using it.

          It’s also incredibly stupid to use on kids in therapy or as a substitute for classroom discipline. Let’s say you grew up in a family where everything is a conflict (I did). When teachers or shrinks say, “There must be a reason it’s always you,” it comes across as a taunt and a guessing game, because as far as you know, this is normal and it’s like that for everybody. You might sense that other people are different, somehow, but you don’t exactly know how. You don’t know how to interpret what you are seeing. The adults who try this grow increasingly frustrated because you haven’t figured it out, so you must not be trying. “You’re so bright; I don’t know why you have such a problem.”

          The ones who work on MANNERS will have more success. They don’t say, “Wouldn’t it be nice if you listened to others?” because they know that’s very likely not the problem: you quite possibly heard every word so-and-so said while shouting to drown her out, because that’s what Daddy does at home. If you think he didn’t hear you while he was bellowing, wait ten minutes later: he’ll repeat every word and hold you accountable for it.

          Rather, adults who know what they are doing will say, “Stop talking and wait until others are finished. Do not raise your voice or your hand to anyone.” That will be difficult enough by itself for some kids, but it can be done, especially once they know what’s expected.

          Same with lessons. This is why Common Core is a joke, especially to people who majored in a subject. It’s all about making kids reinvent the wheel “so they’ll understand it,” instead of of teaching them a method, whether of punctuation or computation, and giving them a drill to practice it. As one critic pointed out, “If someone charged you for tennis lessons of that kind, letting you figure it out for yourself and never correcting your backswing or confirming when you got the balance shift right, you wouldn’t pay them. You’d go find another instructor.”

          I have no patience with people who charge for guessing games.

          1. Notme! says:

            Or you could say – ‘I’m going to show you when it’s your turn to speak by looking at you and smiling. I’ll be happy when you listen quietly and wait to speak and so will your classmates. In fact, when you manage it, you can have a star too. (If they like stars that is)

        2. E. B. says:

          NA,
          Haha So true. There are transcriptions of therapy sessions posted online. Therapist: Mmmmm… Uh-huh… Yeah.. Sure …I see… Great… OK… The client who posted them is pleased with those sessions because the Mmmms are made throughout the session and those are ‘compassionate sounds’!

          1. NarcAngel says:

            EB
            Good lord. Some have taken to being appreciative of paying for wordless sounds rather than address their dissatisfaction? Sigh. It’s worse than I thought.

      2. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

        Violetta: “Schadenfreud,” One of the best words of all time. I forgot about that movie, Babe. Yes, that ending is what many of us want. To be told, well done, for a change. And for it to be true, as well, and for the person to matter to us, and visa versa, and for the person who says, well done, to us, to really mean it.

  8. NarcAngel says:

    Any value to these tears of boredom I have from listening to this mind-numbing pack of predominantly whining Mids and clueless normals promote themselves while pretending it has anything to do with the vote on impeachment? Just fucking vote already.

    1. candacemarie says:

      NA
      They haven’t voted yet? I stopped watching last week. It’s pretty much a waste of time from what I was told. It will never pass in the Senate.

      1. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

        Candacemarie: I wish I knew the Dems endgame with the impeachment activity. One result is extreme polarization in this country. I do not know if this is their goal or a negative side effect tough. Also, I heard that they believe that the longer they stretch it out, they are hopping that Donald loses his cool and does or say something incredibly damaging. If this theory is true, It seems that the Dems have looked more closely at Donald`s personality. But, unless HG says why this entire impeachment process is still continuing, I am not sure why all this is going on. I can not tell if the Dems are achieving their goal or not. I wish I knew, but the general media over here is pretty monstrous to me, for the the past 5 years or so.

        1. Violetta says:

          Well they voted, and it’s impeachment, and Omar and Tlaib were celebrating.

          As a politician once said, if only they could ALL lose.

          1. Michelle Clark says:

            Violetta: HG did explain to me why this impeachment is going, over on his POTUS article. So, I am straight. However, regarding your quote about politicians, `if only they could ALL lose.` I concur: Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

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