How Will the Covid-19 Pandemic Impact On The Dynamic With the Narcissist?

KTN Poll - H.G Wants To Know Post Graphic

There is a pandemic.

Narcissists are more widespread than Covid-19 and more dangerous so let us combine the two with a poll to ask you how the pandemic is or might impact on your dynamic with the narcissist or narcissists in your life.

You may choose as many options as are applicable before casting your vote.

How might the current Covid-19 pandemic impact on your dynamic with the narcissist?

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367 thoughts on “How Will the Covid-19 Pandemic Impact On The Dynamic With the Narcissist?

  1. Kim e says:

    So HG…Story time…………………It is now 4 weeks into the lock down. The N has depleted the IPPS of any and all negative fuel and must give a quite long respite. He has also managed to piss off quite a number of IPSS’s and NISS’s. He has lost them from the matrix. They had enough also.
    Who does he go after for negative fuel? How does that work? Just wondering as I really do not see this letting up any time soon.
    Thank you

    1. HG Tudor says:

      The IPPS would not be depleted of negative fuel. Assuming the narcissist and the IPPS are locked down together, during that period there would be an alternation between respite and devaluation and therefore the depletion to which you refer, Kim, would not have occurred.

      1. Kim e says:

        Thanks for the answer.
        Another question please……..
        Does the N not worry about escapes from the matrix during the lock down because he figures the IPSS/DLS cant go anywhere so whatever control was in place at the time of the lock down is still there?
        Thank you

        1. HG Tudor says:

          During the lockdown most narcissists will be focussed on what is in front of them and the shelf IPSS/DLS will not figure in the mind that much of the narcissist. Many shelf appliances of an intimate nature make the mistake of thinking they are often in the mind of the narcissist. They are not. When there is a Hoover Trigger, this MIGHT (if the HEC are met) cause the narcissist to hoover the IPSS to ascertain (unconsciously) that control is being maintained, however there are a number of factors which govern the reaction of the narcissist. The narcissist is not sat there thinking “All is okay with the IPSS because she cannot go anywhere” so I have control.

        2. SMH says:

          Kim e, I once did not respond to MRN and then there was a terrorist attack. His emails got increasingly frantic (for him) so I answered but I also sensed that he was persisting not because of the attack but rather because I had not answered him. The only other time he did that was when Trump was elected (another kind of disaster). I think he expected me to run to him and when I didn’t, he checked in with me. But again it was because of his expectations rather than anything that had happened. I was only on his mind when I challenged him through silence.

    1. lisk says:

      Either that or NBTD (Nothing Better to Do). It’s a syndrome.

      1. Kristin says:

        You’re on a roll and make me laugh! Thank you 😊

  2. Kim e says:

    HG. If this was asked already I apologize. Is it now or do you expect this to effect you and your fuel?
    I realize you are a god amongst N’s just a humble empath asking. Please do now send me to the dungeon with David Hasshoff 🍷🥃❤️😳😂

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Read the new book Kim E the answer is in there.

  3. lisk says:

    Is anyone who is virus-virtue signaling a narcissist?

    I went outside for half an hour just now in the afternoon and had to tolerate at least three people who were overtly demonstrating how careful and thoughtful they are being around social distancing and anti-germ behavior. It was clear that they needed to be seen, heard, and appreciated by the others (at a safe distance) around them.

    It was absolutely sickening!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Has the prison reduced association time to 30 minus now Lisk, ha ha?!

      Such virtue-signalling (a la the example from the Farmers Market which you provide in another post) is a narcissistic indicator but in itself, not determinative.

      1. lisk says:

        No! That’s how long a load of wash takes in the launderette.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          On laundry duty are we?!!

          1. lisk says:

            Each assigned according to their skillz!

  4. Cj says:

    I lost my job yesterday with state closures due to corona virus … we knew it was about to happen. I’m a single mom and he continues to pay my car payment since our break up. But he texted he was stopping the payments right when all hell is breaking loose.. Wow!

    1. Violetta says:

      The Suckage is just beginning. I had a compulsory retirement fund in my last job. It looked not too bad in December, but now it’s pathetic.

      In further news, they’ll be freezing evictions for a period of time in a number of places, including NY, where I used to live. Now, I don’t like landlords, & I REALLY don’t like NY landlords, but if they’re not getting rent, how do they pay the contractors to fix all the toilets clogged with paper towels because there was no TP?

    2. Lorelei says:

      I’m sorry about the job loss Cj.

    3. WhoCares says:


      I am really sorry that’s happened to you.

      “he continues to pay my car payment since our break up. But he texted he was stopping the payments right when all hell is breaking loose..”

      It’s probably his way of exerting control and hoping that you’ll reach out in reaction – and therefore, provide him with fuel.

      I think many of them are getting pretty desperate in their fuel grabs – even to the detriment of their facade management.

      Hang in there & take care.

      1. Violetta says:


        I think you’ve nailed it.

        Cj: any possibility he’s been actually affected financially? Not saying he isn’t also trying to get fuel, but is he prioritizing where the money goes, or just being a random shit?

        Sorry this is happening, either way.

    4. FYC says:

      Cj, you have my sincere sympathy. Do you mind sharing what like of work you are in or your general skill set? No personal details, just in general. Perhaps we readers can give you leads for gig work or other avenues of at-home income. In the meantime sign up for unemployment. Check with your bank or credit union as many have reduced thresholds for qualifying on small loans due to COVID19. Don’t be afraid to reach out for help, I am sure there are many who would be happy to do so. You may want to consider a gofundme page. Use every avenue. You and your child(ren) will be in my thoughts and I wish you the very best in this difficult time and as you move forward.

    5. lisk says:

      Did he lose his job, too?

    6. Kristin says:

      I’m so sorry this is happening to you. Try to take care of yourself as best you can. Being on this site is a great place to start.

    7. Contagious says:

      So sorry. I was a single mom to two kids.its beyond words as all you want is them to be ok. I prayed each night just let them be ok Lord then take me when they are 18 if you must but please please let them be ok. I sacrificed. Smiled when dealing with what felt like glass shards in my chest at times. But always acted in their best interest. No one is a perfect mom. I did not always cope overall with external pressures. You will be ok. You are an empath designed to nurture and grow anything you touch. HG says you can’t change that. Good. Good for them. They will always come first. It’s hard. I know. Many know. You are not alone. My children are 18 and 20 and thriving despite many obstacles along the way. I love them and we have a beautiful bond. I believe in you as a fellow single mom and empath. It will be ok.

      1. lisk says:

        Nice to see that your prayers were answered *and* that the Lord did not take you!

    8. SoldierOfLuv says:

      Thats so sad to hear !! I hope you’ll get trough this and atleast can rely on some family members . I send you my prayers and a BIG virtual hug . So sad . ❤️

  5. Whitney says:

    Dear HG the God,
    the Somatic thinks he has ownership of my life in every way. Extremely delusional and it creates anxiety for him because I don’t listen to him.

    Our sport is cancelled for at least 2 months. That will be good for my Emotional Thinking. Twice a week at the sport he asserted control, watched me, interrogated about my diet, acted nice, made weird plans and claims, etc.

    I think he will show up at my shop more now.

  6. MommyPino says:

    I don’t anticipate any impact since I’m narc free now. However I keep thinking about the children of narcissists who are now home bound with their narc parents. I remember how I used to love school because unlike my own home, school was a healthy environment for me. I’m praying for those kids. It’s so much easier to hid abuse when there is no community who could witness the abuse. 😢

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It is impacting on you MP as you have described and it will continue to impact on you. Just because there’s no burglar today, doesn’t mean one won’t come along tomorrow, ditto narcissists.

      1. mommypino says:

        So true HG, I didn’t even think of it that way.

        I’m ready to face narc burglars any day with your bullet proof logic shield. Would never let anyone steal my happiness again!

        1. HG Tudor says:

          The shield always need maintaining and checking. The world is a fluid and dynamic place.

          1. Me says:

            Can sniff you lot out now thanks to you. Waste of space and childish.
            Like thst though..burglar.

  7. Violet Wilkins says:

    Mr. Tudor do you have any information on Female Narcissists?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Yes, I do.

    2. Lorelei says:

      I think the females operate in the usual fashion, but add the flair of lipstick to their repertoire of miserable-ness!

  8. fiddleress says:

    I must have a twisted mind, but I found this piece of information entertaining: after a month of being locked up together at home, the number of couples that have divorced in China has skyrocketted. So much for married life.
    However, some of them change their minds and get married to each other again soon after that. I wonder how many of those are narcissist-empath couples – going, like in this Pixies song:
    “If you go, I will surely die !
    We’re chained, chained,
    we’re chained, chained
    We’re chained” (ad lib)
    And this could be said by either, probably !

    1. fiddleress says:

      * skyrocketed.

  9. Cloudy says:


    Social Distancing against this virus probably will work well against Narc’s

  10. Michelle says:

    My latest narc, whom I’ve nicknamed AeroNarc, is probably really enjoying this. He’s what HG calls an “Angel With a Dirty Face,” a.k.a. an “atruistic” narc. He works in a public service job that is completely essential to infrastructure, so of course he’s still going to work each day and staring down COVID-19. I’m sure he’s obtaining a lot of fuel from being a hero who keeps things running. Once upon a time he was a first responder, another job that proved his infinite capacity for giving to those in need.

    A week before the virus appeared here in our city, I confronted AeroNarc about his rude behavior toward me and, when he lied to me, withdrew from an event we were going to attend together, explaining why. He responded to this wounding by saying he never wanted to attend such an event together again, and I agreed. (I’m sure he was hoping to hurt me.) I am certain at this point that I am painted black and receiving a corrective devaluation, perhaps shelved. However, I have a feeling that his valiant heroism during this difficult time will cause him to forget all of the bad blood between us and come right on back later on. After all, he left all the channels of communication open. We share a very large group of mutual friends, some of whom bought me dinner on our last night out before the restaurants here closed, so if he is going to try to smear me in that crew, he’s got his work cut out for him. He’s probably telling them the same thing he tried to use to gaslight me — that I was just jealous of him talking with other women. By this point I pity anyone who ends up with him.

  11. Kristin says:

    My ULN husband works from home so no difference in that regard. However, he said he wants to get the virus “just to get it over with.” That’s a big NO, he wants to get it for the attention and to gain sympathy, what an ass.

    1. SuperEmpath says:

      He wants your undivided attention, how pathetic.

      1. Kristin says:

        You are absolutely correct. He wants my attention 24/7 and it’s exhausting. The world stops when he gets a simple cold. He asks me to give him the thermometer and all I want to do is hand him a set of balls. Grow a pair already.

        1. WhoCares says:


          I hope you are doing okay. I have been thinking about you. I know your husband’s work attends to some of his fuel needs – but I fear for you being stuck with an Upper Lesser who can have a quicker ignition of heated fury… especially in a fuel shortage situation.

          1. Kristin says:

            Your kind words came at just the right time and I so appreciate you thinking of me. I was being quite crass and cynical all the while hearing HG in my head saying “once you know you go and GOSO Kristin!”

            He has shown his fury in the past few days but now I have knowledge as to why he behaves in the way he does and I do my best to not provide challenge fuel. The more I immerse myself in this site, comments such as yours and the assistance packages, I increase my logical thinking, reduce my ET and feel more in control.

            I truly hope you are doing well as we cope with our new normal. Once again, thank you. I had tears in my eyes as I read your reply but it was very comforting and a bright spot in my day. Many blessings to you xx. 🥰

          2. WhoCares says:


            I am aware that (pre-Covid19) your husband was probably already sensing a difference (even unconsciously) as you have applied logic…they sense when we are not responding as they are accustomed to, even when it is mostly internal on our part. They sense when they don’t have full control anymore. That, combined with Covid19 associated fuel shortages, concerns me because I remember the escalations in my situation with my narcissist and he is a LMRN – so he managed, mostly, to keep his heated fury in check…but just barely.

            Please take extra care. 💙
            You’re in my thoughts.

          3. Kristin says:

            Wow, you totally understand and have explained my situation. He certainly has noticed a difference in me during the past 5 months and it’s almost comical seeing his confusion! Thank you for sharing your past experience with your LMRN, it helps to know I’m not alone and that his behavior is par for the course. Many thanks to you 💕

          4. WhoCares says:

            Glad it’s been helpful Kristin.
            I have, technically, escaped two of them – and you’re right that their machinations and their reaction to the change in you, once transparent, can be entertaining…but only from a distance. Both the narcissists I escaped would shake their heads in confusion and lament to others that I was no longer the person they knew.
            And that’s the benefit of a Narcsite education.
            Stay safe❣️

  12. K says:

    MMRN just texted: BIL has tested positive for Covid-19. He and my daughter have to quarantine for 14 days.

    1. SMH says:

      K, Sorry to hear that. Will she stay with you or with him? Don’t panic. Most people are fine, especially kids, but do look out for yourself.

      1. K says:

        Thank you SMH
        She is with me, thank God! Hahaha… I grew up with LLNs so I don’t do “panic”, however, I will definitely take care.
        This article sums up my experience with Lessers very well.

        1. SMH says:

          K, the one boarding up the windows of his house to keep the virus out? Hahaha

          1. K says:

            Hahahaha…all three apply! Reading it was awful AND hilarious at the same time.

          2. Violetta says:

            Chicken soup for both of you, K. It’s scientifically proven.

            I posted a comment on a Brit news site about tea and Scotch working as a flu remedy for three generations of my family, including when I had H1N1 in ’09, and one reader replied, “But what did you do with the tea?”

          3. SMH says:

            Ha Violetta, What was your response? Gotta be on your toes with these Brits

          4. K says:

            Hahahaha…I love homemade chicken soup.

            “which is good soup, very ,very good soup, great soup for stopping viruses and that is a fact.” – C-19 SoundBites

            My dad made Hot Toddies for the flu. For goodness’ sakes, you bathe in the tea.

        2. WokeAF says:

          Hey Narchivist- I’m sorry to hear about your kid – she’s lucky not only to have an empath mama but a Carrier at that! Best wishes and hope you two stay well.

          1. K says:

            Thank you WokeAF!
            Carriers are definitely great caregivers; take care of yourself and your loved ones, too. It’s getting exponentially worse by the day.

          2. WokeAF says:

            Yup and so is the Narc abuse!

            My kids dad just screamed at me in a parking lot bc I won’t tell him why I wouldn’t give him a ride yesterday. Veins popping, red faced, eyes bulging. LOL
            I was delivering a weeks worth of food for our kid and him, and a pack of smokes.
            No gratitude. He’s BESIDE himself bc he thought he had me roped back in and sees that’s not so , despite there being a pandemic lol

            Listening to the coparenting package now I wish I’d had this when the kids were little.

            I can only imagine how does quarantine is for victims of narc abuse still stuck w them…must be just horrific

            I’m glad you have your kid – right now mines 16 and WANTS to be at dads bc he’s breaking away and asserting his independence from me. Honestly I really need the break but if he gets sick I’m bringing him home

          3. theletterafterj says:

            I wouldn’t be surprised if DV/divorce rates increased because of Covid-19.

            There’s nothing like a good dose of fury to liven things up during a pandemic. Hahahaha…it’s all about him after all! Gratitude, smatitude. He’s entitled to a weeks worth of groceries, smokes AND your fuel and, God damn it all to hell, you can’t tell him any different. I wish the internet and HG existed three decades ago.

            Breaking away and asserting independence is quite normal at your son’s age but, if dad’s manipulations become malign, then he might not be so eager to remain. Teenagers see through their behaviour rather quickly. Thankfully, my daughter prefers me over her dad, for now, and, hopefully, it will stay that way.

          4. WokeAF says:

            Well there’s a combo of factors. Dad has been MIA for a year being one. And we’ve been through a very traumatic time with him taking himself off his SSRI’s. He hasn’t been to school much due to this and other issues, we’re just a little sick of each other right now. We mutually acknowledge that we love each other but our little sick of each other 😆 He’s enjoying the time w dad (for now.) he’s welcome to come back anytime he wants, and the way his father operates he won’t have a place to live for more than six months to a year anyhow. It’s just been laid off due to the pandemic, unfortunately the other two times he was laid off in the past year we’re not due to the pandemic but I digress…

            I’m just enjoying the time to myself, I’ve never had anything like this, no kids and don’t have to work?! Freaky shit. In 23 years I have not had time to myself like this.

            As far as him and dad getting along I give it may be another month before the board and drives them both insane and they turn on each other, Then the kids will want to come home. So I’m just gonna enjoy the time as much as I can in the middle of an apocalypse

          5. K says:

            Enjoy the time while you can! It’s like a staycation.

          6. FYC says:

            Great outlook, K, well said.

          7. K says:

            Thank you FYC
            Damn skippy! Thankfully, I picked up my order of library books BEFORE the lock down! Life is good.

          8. WokeAF says:

            Oh I am

        3. Contagious says:

          I have a EMRL per HG and he is convinced it’s the end of the world. Constantly saying “bye.” No reason he is 48 and healthy.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            His fear of the end of the world is a manifestation of his fear of losing control. His repeatedly saying “bye” is a Pity Play unconsciously seeking control.

          2. njfilly says:

            What is an EMRL?

            Constantly saying “bye” would annoy the hell out of me. Do you respond “bye” as well? Or, “I thought you were leaving?”

          3. Contagious says:

            Elite mid range lesser. I think elite due to artistic achievements. Mid range lesser obvious. Yes he thinks he will die and Entire UK at risk. Any logic fails. I gave up. Don’t take his calls. I said clap for me for NHS …bye.

    2. WhoCares says:

      Oh man, K, your daughter has to quarantine?

      1. K says:

        Yes, 14 days. It’s a bummer! The kids are home from school and she can’t play with them; I feel so bad for her.

        1. WhoCares says:

          Aw, K – I wish I could send her a whole slew of origami papers! I have some really pretty ones…

          1. K says:

            Origami paper is so beautiful! I put in an order for Pantone’s Contrasting Colour Collection, double-sided origami paper with Amazon. It should arrive by tomorrow.

          2. WhoCares says:


          3. Lorelei says:

            I love Amazon! I’m excited for you. I’ve only ordered dog and cat food lately from them.. I did order a clock a few weeks ago from Etsy to match some teal accents and it arrived today—it’s terribly big and while I believe I’ll accustom to the size it seemed larger than anticipated.

          4. WhoCares says:


            K had me at “Pantone’s Contrasting Colour Collection”

            Thing is though, Amazon shopping doesn’t really appeal .
            I don’t really enjoy shopping at all, with the exception of art supplies. And if I am going to buy paper, I want to touch the product, *feel* the product…

          5. Lorelei says:

            I love nice paper. I like Amazon for convenience, and I hate hauling cat litter/food bags. Takes up half the cart! I’m not shopping for one thing except for human food until next month. It’s not really my fault. Somehow I landed on tons of text/email lists for sales. There is nothing I need.

          6. K says:

            All Kitty litter and cat food is delivered to the door step. Life is good.

          7. Lorelei says:

            Yes K it is. I know you have older kids as well as younger. Do you ever want to strangle the older ones? I am so upset over my 19 year old. She inherited a lot of money when her dad died and has managed to spend it all in one year. (I knew this would happen) She at the age of 18 with her lazy and useless video game playing boyfriend paid cash for a “fixer upper” that is they used a 20 year old “friend” breaking into the real estate business to coordinate the “deal.” Last year I almost killed them all when this occurred. There was no checks or balances by a bank on the transaction as was cash. The house was overpriced for what I visually estimate is a tens of thousands of dollars repair project. So, now that she is out of money she needs me. I have been begging them to change furnace filters, oil change the car etc. I found out yesterday that they have done nothing. Furnace filter is a fire hazard, they have no working smoke detectors because getting a ladder to change the batteries must be too labor intensive. No carbon monoxide detectors. Oil change done a year ago in a new car. My head blew off today. Like blew off in the wind after I internally combusted. I told them the party is over and sent them flying to car place. I told them to knock the decade off dust bunnies from the furnace filter, provided the fire safety equipment and groceries. (they are out of food and money) I have blown my top. Why didn’t someone tell me that children make you want to attack them? My nut-bag mid-range father mitigated much of this damaging behavior for me by at least scaring me into listening! Holy Fuck. Yesterday, she said she wanted to get a cat. I nearly had a stroke. She also calls me by my first name in front of her friends and I just ignored it.

          8. K says:

            I am very lucky. My older children are very responsible and hard-working. They did very well in school (Honor Roll), behaved in class, got jobs, saved money and made friends with like-minded individuals.

            Red Flags: lazy, useless, video game playing boyfriend. You may want to consider doing a ND. Are both of their names on the “fixer Upper”? They bought the property together so they are responsible for its upkeep, repairs and safety precautions, ditto for oil changes or car repairs.

            Take a step back, stop helping with food, money, safety equipment, etc., and let them figure it out. They will be fine and you won’t want to attack them. Calling you by your first name in front of her friends could be construed as a lack of respect (contempt), keep ignoring it.

            The fact that she blew through a lot of money in a year, bought a Money Pit and can’t afford food/home repairs YET wants to get a cat indicates a lack of maturity and responsibility.

            Use logic; walk away and don’t look back.

          9. Lorelei says:

            The boyfriend is a red flag for at least being lazy, and has been around since early high school. Video games irritate me terribly. Anyway—there is a fair amount of family engagement to try and promote some sensible solution oriented choices, but it’s difficult because she has some limitations and there was a need for her to want to leave home earlier than intended. Thank you—your input aligns with the family majority view, although no one will not provide food at this point. Just her name on the money pit.

          10. K says:

            My pleasure Lorelei
            Gamers, in my experience, are usually NPD and a long term pattern of laziness is strongly indicative, too. At least her name is on the Money Pit, that’s a good sign.

            Rather than get all wound up, you can order groceries and have them delivered; it’s not worth the frustration of animosity. Letting go will give you more control over your ET.

          11. Lorelei says:

            Correct. Correct. He’s an idiot. I guess he took it out on her that I made him get off his ass and take the car to get serviced. Typical narc behavior. He can get fucked. He’s expendable. Maybe an icy mid ranger next? Yippee, they are a treat of complete ass wipe proportion. Oh save—a cerebral greater. Maybe we could plot to blow the money pit up! Dumb shenanigans! Bottom line—some help is needed in a dose here and there. I’m strapped. I thought I was getting a tuition stipend for the kids.. Announced as in limbo today. I have zero extra dollars without that.

          12. theletterafterj says:

            WhoCares and Lorelei
            I hate shopping and that is why Amazon is so damn sexy!

          13. Lorelei says:

            I feel anxious in large stores. I am much happier in Trader Joe’s or a small clothing store. Online eliminates most of the anxiety entirely. I never used to have anxiety. Who knows why now.

          14. WhoCares says:

            K and Lorelei,

            After the end of my entanglement – which I realize now was a social isolation experiment in itself – and I was re-integrating myself back into “normal” society, I ventured in to a local shopping mall and it was like culture shock: so garish and bright and smelly and offensive to the senses. I have since acclimatized and can ‘do the mall thing’ if I have to, but it isn’t my preference.

          15. theletterafterj says:

            Bookstores and libraries are more my thing, however, I can adjust to a Mall’s environment, if I have to, and I prefer self-checkout. That’s why Amazon/online shopping is Da Bomb.

  13. MB says:

    HG!!!!! We finally got the dot after the G!!!! I popped in and got so excited, I haven’t even looked at the poll! Thank you! (as if you did it for me haha)

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You may now go dotty over the dot.

    2. WhoCares says:

      We did!!???

      Um. Needs more flame.


      1. MB says:

        I can’t believe you didn’t notice we finally got the dot, WC! I’ve been looking for it on every poll. I had all but given up hope. Miracles do happen.

        1. WhoCares says:


          I’ve been a little distracted.
          Good catch and attention to detail on your part!

          (Mostly distracted by HG’s well-timed and much appreciated humour.)

          Hopefully HG knows I was teasing re: the flames.

        2. NarcAngel says:

          I must say- you are quite the exception when it comes to women looking forward to a period.

          1. Violetta says:

            On the contrary, NA: I suspect many wen are damned grateful when they get it.

          2. MB says:

            Ha ha NA, I’ve missed you! HG, ever the charming gentleman is so accommodating. (But only when HE deems it time to add the full stop of course!)

    3. lisk says:

      Oh, wow. I did not even notice. This is a HUGE development!

  14. WhoCares says:

    Okay, I took stock.

    I have already had my own past geographical/social/psychological isolation experiment with my narcissist – thanks very much. I know how painful that was, so I know things can be way worse off.
    I had fewer necessities at that time, a virtually non-existent social support system, lack of means of transportation – basically no safety net – and reduced capacity to think or function. Plus, one crazy, chronically fuel- starved narcissist in closed quarters. Pretty much a recipe for disaster.

    Even with the Covid-19 fears, the current situation is so much better – and thanks Covid-19: if anything positive could have come from this, for me, it is the reduction of hoovers through the legal system since court dates, etc.will now be pushed back significantly.

    I am as narc-free as I can be, for the moment, and very calm. Not saying that can’t change, i.e. the calmness, but I know there are far worse situations. And I really feel for the victims who find themselves in close contact with their narcissist at this time due to social isolation and other constraints. Their worst dangers are not necessarily contacting Covid-19.

    1. WhoCares says:

      *contracting Covid-19

      1. WhoCares says:

        ​I dreamed about him last night. So weird. I have had virtually no contact with him for two years. And I rarely dream anymore and never about him.
        He just kept showing up in every place. I would be walking in a direction and out of the corner of my eye, I would see his form, walking, with trajectory calculated to intercept my path, but he wasn’t really looking at me. It was as if he couldn’t really help it.
        At one point, he was almost careening along, as if inebriated…
        Finally – in a coffee shop I think? – he simply squished himself in, on a couch, (even though there wasn’t room) beside friends of mine. And in the dream, my ET took over (very unlike me) and I screamed at him to get off the couch and leave my friends alone.
        So similar to real life in one way: he could always provoke me by attempting to hurt or harm another.

  15. WokeAF says:

    Can I just ask how the other Contagions are doing amidst this GLOBAL FUCKING ENERGETIC SHITSTORM??!
    My. GOD.
    Holy overload Batman

    1. WhoCares says:

      Actually, WokeAF, I think social isolation would benefit Contagions – unless it is isolation *with* a narcissist – or with an overly emotional Empath.

      1. WokeAF says:

        That’s why I moved to an island of 10,000 lol
        I can still feel it – but if I was in a city I’d be physically ill right now. I’d be having panic attacks and just a mess. Out here I can manage it but it’s still there!!
        Underneath it tho, is a big lovely quiet , similar to in a blizzard. I just have to keep tapping into that.

        1. WhoCares says:


          “Underneath it tho, is a big lovely quiet , similar to in a blizzard. I just have to keep tapping into that.”

          I hear you.
          There is a calm underneath everything – just hard to stay in touch with it if you are in close contact with a narc or dealing with urgent, entitlement-filled hoovers.

          When I am up and awake around 3 or 4 am these days it is eerily quiet – more than the normal kind of quiet at that time.

          Hang in there 💜

  16. Claire says:

    OK, so far so good – no hovering yet , more time from next week to immerse in HG’s astonishing work as I am going to work from home and on the bright side , as the borders are closed and planes Narc 1 cannot come to visit . Narc 2 is not that smart to figure out my changed phone number nor to hack my email address. Once he described me as a fierce ( I took it as a compliment) so he won’t risk further.

    I am guilty thinking occasionally about Narc 1 because my former in laws are old and he is prone to lung decease. But I remind myself that he can afford a private health care and that I must keep my NC .

  17. lisk says:

    I’m not expecting any hoovers from Narcx.

    I *do* think he’s expecting to hear from me—and from all his other appliances—about how this “event” has made me realize how much I love him and need his strength, blah,blah, blah.

    No Damsel in Distress here. No love here, either.

  18. SoldierOfLuv says:

    MatriNarc even had us fooled that she was infected . I still feel guilty thinking this and even typing this . She always keeps me in this state . Hate it !

    1. Renarde says:


      Pathetic creature that she is.

      I’m thinking that a lot of people are now going to show their true colours.

      To all people who have experienced NPD abuse, DA & DV, THIS is where we shine.

      We have all earnt our ‘blood stripes’. We can handle this.

      The Ns are about to go into free-fall.

      1. SoldierOfLuv says:

        Yes indeed Renarde people show their true colors in crisis . I sometimes really saddend by some behaviours I’am observing .

        But the postive ones I notice too lets celebrate those :)

        Much love

        1. Renarde says:


          Very well said.

          I love your name BTW!

          Please take care!

  19. WokeAF says:

    Well and truly hoovered via our kid and COVID related financial/stress circumstances added to a previous crisis I was ALMOST on top of.
    I’m seeing him almost every day out of necessity revolving around kid’s mental health among other things. It’s BRUTAL.
    He’s already glommed on tight and made me “in this together “
    A month ago I was pretty much NC
    now he’s decided I’m his apocalypse partner and kid wants him in the picture and I’m horrified that he’s decided what’s mine is his bc of kid. (Otherwise kid is unhappy, bored, socially isolated, highly fucking anxious, etc and ANGRY ABD RESENTFUL BC he wants dad being involved.
    The help w kid is my only reprieve from THAT being ALL on my plate as well as the rest of this COVID shit
    Honestly COVID added a new layer of insanity on top of the kid/mental health layer of insanity I was already barely afloat in.

    Totally hoovered .

    1. WhoCares says:

      I am sorry WokeAF, that has to be hard to deal with.

      1. WokeAF says:

        It is a lot ! Lol
        But thanks to HG at least I know what’s going on and logic is still holding down the fort .

  20. Renarde says:

    Again. this may or may not be CV19 related as I had a very big thing earlier this week.

    Court. Someone, a very significant person from the Court (not the Judge) has just now cropped up on my ‘people you may know list’ on FB. This is a mere few days after the Final Hearing. Everything is still so raw.

    I am struggling to understand how this has happened. Either way actually. The email address to the Court is different to the email address on FB. I had thought that I had removed my phone number as I was stalked that way twice by a man who followed me from Fet to FB. In any case, I can’t recall FB throwing up from my contact list people in this way before.

    The problem I have is that my surname is not the usual one. I have gone through my friends list over and over again. Removing anyone who has a possible link to the UMS. So how this has happened I do not know, and the timing? I haven’t contacted him in weeks because he is as much use as the proverbial chocolate poker. Yet within a few days of the hearing, he’s popping up?

    What is significant is that this man has a very unusual last name (which is HIGHLY redolent of his character, school, level and cadre actually) and that he wasn’t present in Court himself, a partner attended.

    I was disappointed by this because I wanted to see this man who has been a very naughty boy indeed. I thought it was fishy that he wasn’t there at the time and my friend and I spent quite a while talking about his ‘naughtiness’.

    I scoped his profile of course. It looks reasonably genuine. His picture looks as how I would expect him too. Totally in keeping. Balding, beard, bespectacled.

    Did he REALLY need to see a picture of me that badly? Was that the ‘gossip’ around the firm? Fucking cunt. Scratch that. Ball washing bastard.

    So not a hoover but I feel utterly violated. What the actual fuck is wrong with people?

    OMG, just sat here thinking. Maybe I’m being a little dumb but I’ve had a lot on my mind.

    Ex IPPS, IPPS and IPSS (B/W/S) and DLS’s are going to be subjected to MONUMENTAL electronic hoover campaigns aren’t they? Because of movement restrictions. Especially white collar workers, the Middles.

    DV from the lessees will also go up.

    My big Tom was unnecessarily frisky today, I’d say. He’s sleeping now.

    Yes he does commit DV upon my person; he occasionally nips my toes.

    1. Violetta says:


      For some reason, I’m imagining the famous sample from “Superfreak,” followed by MC Hammer rapping:

      Can’t touch her
      Can’t touch her

      Now get off FB like HG says. Is there anyone you’d WANT to contact who isn’t available by phone or email?

      1. Renarde says:


        Thankyou! You made me laugh!

        Im aghast. This man knows my address, my exs address. My next of kins. Incredibly private and confidential and incredibly private info.

        What was he thinking? Did it not think the impact it would have on a DA survivour?

        You are probably right on FB but considering what’s going on it would make me feel even more isolated.

    2. Violetta says:

      Time not wasted on FB is time you can do useful things, like skritching the cat behind his left ear while listening to HG’s recordings.

      HG will approve, and so will the cat.

      1. Renarde says:


        I cannot argue with that logic!

        I’ve just found this cockwomble in my list again. Screenshotted it and his avatar. His partner looks like a nice woman.

        Heres a thing. That avatar was updated on the date of the hearing. The 16th.

        Hell of a coincidence.

        1. Violetta says:

          Yeah, wotta co-inky-dinky.

          If it’s any comfort, I’m just as bad. I’m not on FB, but I sometimes check out the open parts of WBPN’s FB. He’s making all sorts of sympathetic noises, and he’s an advocate of animal rights, what a great guy, right? Pity he doesn’t have that level of compassion for humans.

          Actually, he doesn’t really have it for animals either. I sent my vocal coach links to some of his videos, and my VC (a canine deity–dogs will usually make friends with me, but complete strangers’ dogs will sit on his lap and try to follow him home), wrote, “Stop send me links. I watched a few seconds of one, and I refuse to watch one more nanosecond of this guy emotionally abusing his dogs.”

          I recently asked him what he meant: he didn’t tell at them or kick them; they seemed well-fed, well-cared-for, and reasonably happy, although they interacted more with each other than with him. (Or maybe that’s “they seemed well-fed, well-cared-for, and reasonably happy BECAUSE they interacted more with each other than with him.”)

          He said, “It was the total lack of empathy for the dogs. He viewed them as props, not as friends.”

          1. Renarde says:


            Yuch, that’s awful. I have direct experience of this. My ex who was meant to be supporting me at an event I was running. Attempted quite a feeble triangulation between me, the bar maid and pictures of his cats. Even though I was very busy, I did notice the look on the barmaids’ face. Unimpressed and a bit bored tbh. He had form for this kind of manip.

            Mum would never ever allow any animal out of her sight. Control.

            You’ll laugh lovely. Scriting the cat and listening to HG? I accessed The Vault and whilst I was doing that, all three cats demanded to be let out. Rare I’m usually left completely on my own! Cats!!!

            I trust mine explicitly. The Tom is slower but my black female hunter is wicked smart. Apparently she was clocked chasing a dog down the road the other day. Leaves me mice tributes.

            The Queen is the most intelligent animal I’ve ever met. One day recently, I was dreaming of my children. Whilst I was asleep, she sat by my head and continually stroked my forehead as I slept. Mind you, she once punched me in the face for food. And once whilst sat on the sofa reading, she jumped on the arm and put both of her velvety paws on my eyes. She regularly sits on my head whilst I sleep and when younger she would sleep around my neck.

            I was very amused the other day when I was visited by someone and he was scared of the Tom. The same Tom did not like the UMS and I could sense the Ns irritation. Aww. Pity.

            Anyway. I now have HG! I do think of TDM as a bit like a Blackforest Gateaux. Decadent.

  21. raquelirockwell says:

    Mine has reached out twice. He’s an ex-spouse, we share a child. Fake concern. I’m just glad that I’m not being self-quarantined with him. Let his new source have all the fun. I’ve been housebound w/him during snowstorms before. No fun at all.

  22. Mercy says:

    No Hoover’s! My NC is still strong and I’m glad. I’ve got no time for that stress in my life.

  23. fiddleress says:

    The Covid-19 pandemic is impacting slightly on the last stage of my no-contact regime , i.e, not thinking of my narcissist, now that I am not allowed to go out, see the people I know and like and love. We are under house arrest where I live;

    It has been one month to the day since I came across this blog, and since I stopped being in touch with him through text messaging as an immediate consequence (Celebration time, even on my own!).
    Before that, I hadn’t seen him since the end of January, and had blocked his number, but there was a catch.
    I don’t know if it is only my phone that does this, but blocking his number only stopped his text messages coming through, not the pictures that he kept sending – for which I got messages, from his phone operator inviting me to go and check the pics out on a dedicated website.
    To cut a long story short: blocking the number is not enough. HG, you are perfectly right (of course) to say we must change our number.

  24. SMH says:

    Hahaha. Great poll, HG. I wash my hands. A lot and well. No hoovers but I would hardly expect any at this point. I will say though that when we were together nothing ever fazed him. I’ve never known anyone so calm. Terrorist attack? Shrug. Earthquake? Shrug. If we were still together he would have absolutely no reaction at all. Things would be the same as they ever were.

    On a more positive note, Odin and I joked a lot today about the best sex positions for C19, what you can do with a mask, and h&s (Brits will get it) working from home. I am not worried about his sense of humour anymore.

  25. leighwarren17 says:

    Mr. Tudor, I’m curious. Why are they all hoovering?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Watch this space.

  26. K says:

    Latest text from MMRN: BIL has been admitted to the hospital.

  27. SoldierOfLuv says:

    It has already caused a hoover multiple

    1. leighwarren17 says:

      They are coming out of the woodwork! Its crazy!

      1. SoldierOfLuv says:

        Yes indeed !

    2. Contagious says:

      Yes, my mid ranger somantic narc elite off rails. Hoovering nonstop negative and positive. What’s going on?

      1. SoldierOfLuv says:

        He tried it !

  28. Amber says:

    It has resulted in a hoover. I was an IPSS once but was disengaged with quite abruptly two years ago. Despite may attempts for ‘closure’ I was repeatedly given the silent treatment by the UPPER MID-RANGE NARC. Due to HG’s great articles and an invaluable phone consultation I was able to maintain no contact. But the narc hoover came a week ago, wanted to help with a work project he had heard I was working on. Clearly social distancing , with only the stepford wife in the matrix has resulted in a fuel shortage…?

  29. Pingback: How Will the Covid-19 Pandemic Impact On The Dynamic With the Narcissist? ⋆ NarcTopia
  30. CandaceMarie says:

    I don’t know if the term hoover is used for a narc parent. If it does then yes I have been hoovered by my MR dad. Yes I know I should be no contact with him but since I don’t want to be cut out of the will, I remain on very limited contact. He has contacted me several times showing concern for me and my daughter. Also, offering me money and saying we can come visit if we need to. After all it’s better to be with family at a time like this, yeah right. I don’t consider him family anymore.
    Wash your hands HG!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      The hoover is applicable to any type of narcissist.

    2. K says:

      This is a very good article. My mother hoovered me today, as well. I, too, am not NC; my mother has put me in charge of her finances in case of medical emergency/death. My daughter is health care proxy. (binding)

    3. Anm says:

      Candace, that has been my fear. I’m afraid my daughter s dad will use the will against her. I have heard it never goes well but either cutting you out at their last breath, or they play games constantly with it. Terrible. If a parent wants to give you money, they should just do it

  31. theletterafterj says:

    Covid-19 is a hoover trigger. My mother (LLN) just called and she got her stimulus already!

  32. Renarde says:

    Hmm yes. I have recieved a Hoover today. Quite a strange one. It may or may not be connected with CV19. It’s difficult to say.

    Still pondering…

  33. Li says:

    Pandemics are more dangerous than NPD – but they might crash the economy and force humanity to make necessary changes. Not without a cost. Only narcissists are obsessed with narcissists.

    1. HG Tudor says:


      1. Li says:

        Closet types are known to hero worship exhibitionist and sociopathic types.

        Losing 30% lung health would suck. DV / DA has always been around, I was raised by a sociopath. Still, I enjoy running and my freedom now.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Hello again /iroll.

          1. Li says:

            Hi. My diagnosis changed. Be safe. Or develop immunity for us ^ ^

        2. Violetta says:


          What’s with all the non sequiturs in that last post? If there are connections between each sentence, please clarify them; if there are not, put them there.

          A topic sentence might help you to structure the rest of the paragraph.

          1. Li says:

            I belong to the cadre ‘evasive empath’ ;)

        3. WhoCares says:

          Hi /iroll,

          Hope you are well.

          1. Li says:

            Hi – I don’t remember much about this forum, it’s changed a lot.

            I got a good therapist and went NC with family. That helped.

            You too :)

          2. WhoCares says:

            Yes it has changed a lot.

            So good to hear that about the therapist and NC with the fam.

            I was thinking about you recently because I have had to a lot about Pokemon lately (more than I ever wanted to) on behalf of my son…(I thought getting up to speed re: Thomas and Friends was bad…)

            Glad you checked in.

    2. Renarde says:


      You’ve just reminded me, I need to purchase more weed and MDMA from my dealer!

      1. Whitney says:

        Haha Renarde!

        1. Renarde says:

          Hey Whitney!

          You keeping well?

      2. Contagious says:

        It’s an “ essential” in Cali! :)

        1. Renarde says:


          Ha ha!

  34. Leolita says:

    Already been hoovered; 10 calls from withheld number today, within three hours, among them five missed calls in a row. No big wonder who that might be. But who cares. Never speaking to that looser again. too bad we cannot block withheld number on IPhone.

    1. Leolita says:

      (And of course I did not answer any of them)

    2. HG Tudor says:

      But you can change your number.

      1. Leolita says:

        Yes. I could. But I have this awesome and very easy number, so I would like to keep it.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Its a number. Keeping it defies logic.

          1. Leolita says:

            Ok, I realise I need change it. I will do that.

        2. Renarde says:

          Agreeing with HG. I will be changing mine.

          I’ve you’ve been subjected to stalking DV and DA, they will do it for free.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Good point, Renarde.

          2. Leolita says:

            What does DV and DA mean?

          3. HG Tudor says:

            Domestic violence and domestic abuse

          4. Leolita says:

            Thank you for explaining HG. I am sorry to say I have been subjected to both DV and DA. Had two restraining orders, too- last one in 2017.

            I am going to change my number, I promise.

          5. Contagious says:

            I don’t know where you live and you might know… but I know an ex cop expert who works at “protection” of DV. In many ways. I got his info from a known NCIS who has been vocal of stalking and was at my friends murder trial. Easy to look up or I could help.

          6. Renarde says:


            That’s intresting and thank you.

            So sorry to hear about your friend!

        3. autiempath says:

          You should change it.
          I did, and no hoovers!
          I enjoy now my peace.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Well done

      2. Violetta says:

        Get an Android. They do let you block numbers. Or complain to Apple that you’ll switch if they don’t add a block feature.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Or even better, change your number.

          1. Violetta says:

            Change your number when you get your Android. Then if he manages to track you down anyway, you can block him.

          2. Leolita says:

            I see your point and I am going to do that.

          3. Leolita says:

            I have blocked him and all his friends and associates on every social media plattform.

            But, I know you say we need to come off social media all together. Why is it not good enough just to block?

          4. HG Tudor says:

            Because a false profile can be created to contact you. In the same way that blocking a number means that the narcissist can call your existing number from a different number.

        2. Leolita says:

          Good idea! I need a new mobile phone anyway.

          1. Leolita says:

            I never accept friend requests from people I do not know. Still, I see that point too . Guess I am coming off social media as well. But do you mean for life? Or just a period?

          2. HG Tudor says:

            A period to enable ET to be brought to the absolute minimum

        3. njfilly says:

          I have an apple iphone and it allows for blocking. My own ex-narc is blocked.

          1. Leolita says:

            Mine too. But you cannot block a withheld / hidden number….

          2. lisk says:

            But you CAN *not* answer “unknown” calls.

            If you answer them, it’s only because you want to.

          3. HG Tudor says:


          4. Leolita says:

            @Lisk; AS you can read, I have NOT answered them. Because I do NOT want to. Hope this clearifies it!

  35. leighwarren17 says:

    I just got hoovered. He told me he has skin cancer. He’s deciding if he should have it removed or have chemo. WTF?!?! I already want to reach out to him. What if he’s telling the truth??? I can’t be heartless like him.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      1. How were you hoovered?
      2. Question how that hoover happened and revisit your No Contact Regime.
      3. If you had a strong NCR, you would not have been hoovered and you would not have the surge in ET causing you to debate being heartless.
      4. He is not your problem.

      1. Leigh says:

        We work together and I was talking to another coworker in the lunchroom and he came in and blurted this out.

        Yes, I know my NCR isn’t as a good as it can be. I’m not in a position to quit just yet.

        My LT knows he’s not my problem. Its my ET that thinks differently. Hopefully my LT is stronger. Although I fear it won’t.

        This sucks!

        1. NarcAngel says:


          They’re prone to drama (blurting it out in the lunchroom while you were engaged with a co-worker?) and lie (from our perspective). He’s likely got a janky mole and is fighting Covid for attention. Let him get it elsewhere. Your ET is conning you into thinking he needs YOU specifically. Sorry – but he doesn’t.

          1. leighwarren17 says:

            Yes, he’s definitely dramatic and he may be lying. I know I have to fight it. I know this is just about attention. They really know how to tug at your heartstrings. Bastards!

        2. fox says:

          As a friend of mine loves to say: “Not your circus, not your monkeys.” Even if this person does have skin cancer, what could you do about it? Not a thing, other than being supportive. Does this person deserve your support? Sounds like you know the answer is no.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            That’s logic prevailing.

          2. Violetta says:

            Fox: excellent. The narc may need a good oncologist/dermatologist, but Leigh can’t do a damned thing.

            Anyhow, who brings up a thing like that when other people are eating?

          3. leighwarren17 says:

            No, he does not deserve support! As a matter of fact, when I had surgery, he couldn’t even be bothered with me. He didn’t even wish me well. Thank you for reminding me of that.

          4. leighwarren17 says:

            @Violetta Anyhow, who brings up a thing like that when other people are eating? Thank you for the chuckle! I needed a good laugh!

          5. Violetta says:

            I think we could all use some comic relief. In between expanding your HG-Lore, I recommend going on Daily Mail, clicking on any celebrity article (the Markles are usually good, but even Reality “Stars” you’ve never heard of will work), scroll to the comments at the bottom, and click on the “Worst Comments” column.

            You don’t even have to read the article. Here’s a conversation about a UK “Love Island” bimbo:

            First post:

            She’s as vile with the make up piled on, as she is with most of it scraped off. Talentless, box jawed wannabe who literally needs to retire away from the limelight. Sick of troggy-mae, her horse teeth and horse hair extensions, the constant orange look and the fact SHE keeps calling the paps. You’re face is not photograph worthy love, stop trying to convince us otherwise


            Do you not like her?

          6. SMH says:

            Ha Violetta, That gave me some comic relief. Thanks.

          7. Violetta says:

            Per a DM bullshit article on dating psychopaths:

            “But some people can see beyond the negative traits and accept a psychopath partner as they are – ultimately having greater chance of seeing the relationship succeed.”

            Yeah, right.

          8. leighwarren17 says:

            Violetta: It was probably a narcissist that wrote that article and was trying to blame the victim for not accepting them and trying hard.

        3. Whitney says:

          He’s heartless Leigh. You should use your empathy for someone who needs it, like a baby. Someone who will appreciate it. Use your empathy for a good purpose. He is a selfish adult man taking everything for himself. He is a liar too.

          1. leighwarren17 says:

            I know, its ALWAYS about him and he is extremely selfish and doesn’t deserve my empathy or compassion. Our governor just mandated a 50% workplace reduction and I’m one of the ones that will have to work from home. This will definitely boost my no contact regime!

  36. theletterafterj says:

    The best hoover I received was from President Trump re: the stimulus. He would like each american to get $1000.00!!!

    Let’s hope it’s not a Future Fake.

    1. theletterafterj says:

      Think of the thought fuel (and proximate fuel from his NISSs/IPPS) from millions of american’s (NITS). Not bad in a day’s work.

      Positive (from the promise of a $1000.00)
      Negative (if he reneges)

      1. Sweetest Perfection says:

        K, I react to Trump’s hoover the way I react to my narc’s hoovers: I don’t. Neither am I happy nor will I be sad if he doesn’t follow through.

        1. Violetta says:

          “I love you, voters, please come back! I didn’t mean it! I can change.

          Actually, that’s not his style. He could never say he was wrong, even insincerely. He’s more like, “See, this proves what a great guy I am, and everybody who’s said otherwise is a liar.”

          Lest anyone think I’m anti-Trump in particular, Biden has reached the stage where he doesn’t remember what he said, and is therefore incapable of telling a deliberate lie.

          1. NarcAngel says:

            Joe doesn’t mean to lie. He just loses his train of thought while sniffing your hair.

          2. Violetta says:



          3. WokeAF says:

            Sorry!! To clarify- 1000 cases not deaths lol
            I think we are closer to 1100 now.

            Not too bad-,yet

        2. theletterafterj says:

          Sweetest Perfection
          Sounds like you are at Zero Impact (ZI). I would be lying if I told you I wouldn’t be disappointed if the stimulus doesn’t go through.

          1. Sweetest Perfection says:

            K, I definitely am Zero Impact from the only two Upper Losers I know: Trump and my narc. Fuck them both and their short-term crumbs of comfort.

          2. theletterafterj says:

            Sweetest Perfection
            Hahahaha…I sure hope I can cash Trumps Comfort Crumbs!

          3. Sunshine says:

            OT but… soon we will be living in an ENTIRE WORLD of CLEAN closets & pantries!!!

            The thrift stores are gonna be PACKED soon!

          4. Sweetest Perfection says:

            I don’t even know why he calls it stimulus, the only thing this stimulates is his ego. How is that amount of money gonna help this health and by extension, economic crisis is beyond my belief. People fail to think critically and that makes me so sad. Healthcare for all would help stop this, not throwing a minuscule check to our faces that will be spent before you find out you have the virus. I know it sounds good to have the quick money now, but it’s not a solution to anything in the long term.

          5. MommyPino says:

            Hi SP, I respectfully disagree. That check is absolutely helpful to most people. Maybe it’s not a big deal to people who are earning high income, it’s minuscule compared to their salary and monthly budget and that’s probably why they don’t appreciate it. But to people with fixed income and living paycheck to paycheck or minimum wage, that check is very helpful for now while the whole economy is going down. Let’s look at the perspective of people who can’t even buy necessities right now.

            I have never heard anyone say that the check will fix everything. It’s meant to ease the current burden but more actions are being taken.

          6. WhoCares says:

            “Let’s look at the perspective of people who can’t even buy necessities right now.”

            I have to say I agree with the point you are making. The $1000 won’t solve everything, but if someone is living paycheck to paycheck and they had to spend extra to stock up on essentials in the event of having to quarantine for 14 days they may not have much, if any wiggle room cash wise.
            Trudeau is making other gestures but they are not as broad and immediate as Trump.

            I know people who cannot afford to both stock up on non-perishables AND fresh food (on a daily basis) and because they cannot necessarily go out at will they may already be cutting into their non-perishable food stash.
            These are people who are not in a position to scoff at an extra $1000.
            That amount would easily help a small family get through a crunch time.

          7. WokeAF says:

            I am Canadian (eh)
            I am a single mom of two- one is a successful adult on her own, one is a teen (with autism)

            Right now, even tho I have a well paying union job- I’m still pay check to paycheck bc – cost of living for a single parent.

            Trudeau is sending out a $300 per kid top up on our monthly child tax benefit – but the rumour is we won’t get it until May. We get a gst return top of of a couple hundred but also that will take time.

            A $1000 would enable us pay off rent MAYBE and still have some $ to get two weeks of groceries afterwards. (barely)
            But it would be way better than waiting till May !!! I’m not even getting $1000 , I’ll get around 500-700 extra in total. IN MAY ?!

            I’m hoping for a rental freeze AT LEAST

            What I DO love right now is our healthcare .
            At least we have that. Shit.
            Rumour was we’d get our tax benefit top up in 2-4 weeks- but I dunno

            Ppl need it NOW

          8. WhoCares says:


            “I’m hoping for a rental freeze AT LEAST.”
            In Ontario Ford declared no more eviction notices for the time-being…sooo if someone had to choose between eating and having a roof over their head, I guess they could eat for a little while longer?

          9. WokeAF says:

            We have temp no eviction on low income housing in BC but no general overall no-eviction- rule. SO FAR

          10. WhoCares says:


            Can’t really blame the panic-mongers…there are so many ways that this situation could play out poorly. I think I really am only breathing calm because my past experiences with narcs trained me to be calm in situations of immense strain – and because of Narcsite.

            Woke – I really envy your early Spring other there in BC. You must be having some encouraging temperatures now. We had rain/sleet/snow crap last night – this morning (while doing dishes) I watched a neighbour chipping away at his car…then he finally just crawled into the driver’s seat all the way from the hatchback of his car because the doors were too frozen.

          11. WokeAF says:

            Right now our deaths are just starting , the numbers are ..I think 1000 in all of Canada?
            The majority view is SHUT ER ALL DOWN where I am. Enforce quarantine . Freeze rents. A few weeks now better than the aftermath of an inevitable explosion. Many are frustrated that we have this gift of time and there’s too many abusing it.

          12. Lorelei says:

            Woke—totally off topic and self centered in the midst of your comment here.. I am curious if you recommend the rail system from Toronto to Vancouver. Apologies for placing this inquiry in a sensitive spot. I didn’t know you were in Canada and it impacts a decision I’m looking into.

          13. WokeAF says:

            I don’t have enough information to have an opinion

          14. Lorelei says:

            Thanks Woke.

          15. WokeAF says:

            Yeah sorry. I try to keep my opinions few and flexible

          16. WhoCares says:


            Under normal circumstances I would highly recommend the train trip from Toronto to Vancouver. (I have traveled by train many times from Toronto to Saskatchewan.) It is a most excellent way to see the scenery in Canada. Especially if you’re traveling off season; it is fairly affordable. If you’re not cool with ‘coach’, then get a berth. In the age of Covid19 (and contingent upon whether or not ViaRail is still running ‘normally’) I would recommend getting a berth and hiding out there. Pack food with you and if there is a (short-ish) stopover in Winnipeg, run (don’t walk) to the Forks Market to get fresh food for the rest of the trip. The train’s dinner car is pricey and not spacious and the snack bar is limited.
            But be aware – because I investigated this last summer – that the train on this corridor can be up to 13 hours late and ViaRail takes no responsibility for this because up here CN Rail pretty much owns the train tracks – so bear that in mind when making connections. You (likely) would not want to be stuck in Union Station in downtown Toronto at the time overly long waiting for a train.
            Otherwise the train ride from Toronto to Saskatchewan is lovely and only gets prettier the further west you go – so I am told and evidenced by travel shots from others on the train heading back east to TO.

          17. Lorelei says:

            Thanks Whocares. The situation impacts summer plans considerably but the kids are asking what we are going to do. I try to do creative things—“the beach” makes me want to poke my eyes out. I can’t buy airfare in advance right now but we can drive to Toronto quite easily. (Post COVID—border closure, etc)

          18. WhoCares says:


            “we have this gift of time and there’s too many abusing it.”

            Ditto that.

          19. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Panem et circensis. I never said a check would not be of use to people that need the money right now. What I said is that giving a thousand dollar is not gonna save anyone from the pandemic. It will be over, and then what. Short term ideas that only save face for the time being. This is a health issue, a world-wide health issue. It’s like sticking a band-aid on a leg that needs amputation in the hopes you forget about it.

          20. Sweetest Perfection says:

            It’s circenses not circensis I know no one cares but I’m tired of my uncultivated phone overcompensating. I wonder when people in this country are gonna observe social distance. I don’t see it happening at least in my neighborhood!

          21. Lorelei says:

            I went to Lowe’s earlier for a piece of shower tile (that magically fell off) and I don’t think I caught COVID. They are an essential business. I also bought cookies—hazelnut cream chocolate chip in fact.

          22. Sweetest Perfection says:

            I went to buy groceries too at the time I knew there was nobody. I tried to dodge a family that was threatening with passing by me and establish contact. I am so paranoid now. I disinfected every single item I bought and washed my hands like a maniac. I don’t like this new me.

          23. SMH says:

            SP, I am getting to be this way too. I am afraid I won’t be able to go out at all even when this is over.

          24. Sweetest Perfection says:

            SMH, I know. I am an extremely social person, I never thought I would turn into the typical apocalyptic recluse collecting cans of tuna and weapons in her secret basement, and eyeing suspiciously anyone that gets too close to my property, but that’s where I’m
            seeing myself headed to…

          25. SMH says:

            SP, and me with wet clothes draped all over the place because I refuse to go to the laundromat and hanging evil eyes in the window (I did). Let’s just make a pact to get dressed every morning.

          26. FYC says:

            Sweet P and SMH, Please do not fear. In an effort to allay some fears, you should know that the coronavirus has a limited life on surfaces as does *any* microbe. I studied microbiology in my undergrad studies as an elective out of pure interest and learned a great deal. One thing that struck me most is we are always surrounded by bacteria and viruses. If you were to put a Petri dish anywhere in your home and study the contents after a few days, you would be shocked at the invisible living creatures in your most trusted environment! But do not fear, this hopefully illustrates that we are remarkably resilient. It is best to always be clean, but not excessively worried. Keeping your hands off your face is more important (eyes, nose and mouth are the most common portals for entry). In an effort to assist, I looked up the lifespan of Covid19 on different surfaces: It lives on copper for 4 hours, on cardboard for 1 day, and on plastic for 3 days, new research says. So leave your cardboard boxed deliveries outside or in the garage for one day or use gloved hands to open them. Porous surfaces need a Clorox wipe to kill viruses. And apparently, orange is the new copper for some lessers!

          27. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Thank you FYC, my side porch is full of boxes waiting to pass their own quarantine as well as shoes to go outside (we change before stepping in). My husband calls that porch the “Chernobyl area.”

          28. FYC says:

            Hahaha, thank you for sharing that Sweet P, it gave me a good giggle. I have my own cordoned package area as well and designated outdoor v. indoor shoes as well, although I read that the risk of picking it up off a hard surface floor is extremely small because we do not often put our hands, faces or bodies on the floor, well some might!

          29. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Unless you have kids, FYC. The shoe measure is mainly for parents, but I’m a hypochondriac so I’m doing IT ALLLLL (said as calmly as possible).

          30. FYC says:

            Sweet P I do not have kids, but I do like clean. Take good care and keep the faith. I feel certain you will be fine and will have a stronger body from you planks — just avoid the face plant!

          31. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Oh, and I forgot my planks! God I’m doomed.

          32. SMH says:

            FYC and SP, I actually have outdoor and indoor clothes now. Afraid to put on any shoes that require me to push them on from the bottom. Slip on/in only.

          33. NarcAngel says:

            Well…some might end up on the floor *coughViolettacough* if they’ve been hitting the Scotch and weak tea.

          34. FYC says:

            Hahaha, NA, indeed! I also giggled out loud over your easy cheese interpretation. I love your humor.

          35. Lorelei says:

            I watched Orange is the New Black. Cooper is good.

          36. FYC says:

            Haha Lorelei, I am aware of it, but have not watched it; are there a bunch of lessers portrayed?

          37. Lorelei says:

            More mid feeling FYC, but it’s been some time ago. I only got a tv recently. It was on Netflix on my phone. I am a technological idiot by choice really. I actually know more computer things than a lot of my friends but I’m not a big “tv person.” I loved Desperate Housewives though!

          38. Lorelei says:

            FYC, update for today of two more cases ruling in, some ruling out obviously. One thing to note is that visitor restrictions are becoming more rigid. Apparently everyone entering the facility must “pass” a temperature check point and not be over 100 degrees. Staff included and they must log their temperature electronically so it can be monitored. Nursing homes have been on complete shut down from visitors for some time, and hospitals are increasingly strict. I will say that the trend for the numbers to “rule out” as not being positive are higher certainly than the number “ruling in.” This means the questions are fairly expansive to not let any fall outs occur, or at least easily.

          39. FYC says:

            Lorelei, Thank you so much for this front line report. Very interesting. I knew about the SNF restrictions, but I cannot imagine how a hospital can be really effective with blocking visitors. Many are infectious before they present with a temperature, so the temp screening is useful but not entirely preventative. I am concerned for your well being and that of the rest of the staff. You are all heroes in my eyes. Please to keep the front line reports coming.

          40. K says:

            Fantastic book!

          41. Lorelei says:

            It’s a good book? I have a stack here that was part of my library heist of things I never returned. I should get started. I’m off work, and all of my projects are pretty much complete as I did some painting and outdoor work yesterday. Unless I decide to get a ladder out and paint trim around windows. Read or paint trim? Or both at the same time!?

          42. SMH says:

            Orange is the new copper, FYC. Good one! Thank you for the info. The funny thing is that I know all of this – my logical mind does anyway. And I am not that fastidious a person at all. I hate clutter but I don’t mind dirt. I’ve lived in some pretty grotty conditions for long periods of time. I have also been really careful going out. It was just a panic attack. I actually took a Valium and went to sleep. When I woke up, I was fine. But I have decided to go out every day now because I realize that I already had a touch of agoraphobia – it is occasionally hard for me to leave the house in normal times, though I am fine once I am out. I think my mother once told me that my grandmother did not leave the house for two years so it must run in the family. Now that I know, I can address the problem.

          43. FYC says:

            SMH, I am very sorry to hear about your struggles. I have a family member that has panic attacks and I can only imagine how real they feel for the person under their influence. I am glad you were able to break that cycle and feel better the next day. Please do press on to the degree you comfortably can. Giving into fears amplifies them. You are strong and I know you will prevail. Kudos to you for your bravery to press on and help others. Well done.

          44. Sweetest Perfection says:

            I am the opposite, I have claustrophobia. I am grateful to have a big patio and a garden, otherwise I would have panic attacks after three days indoors. We have been planting some produce, which is fun. Although I’m not very “agricultural.” I was feeling all accomplished spreading seeds and stuff the other day, when I saw a worm near my hand. You should have heard the scream… now I wear gloves.

    2. E. B. says:

      Trump: “Never said that. Fake news. Believe me.”

      1. theletterafterj says:

        E. B.
        Hahahaha….Future Fake News! You are getting $1000.00…PSYCH! No you’re not!!!

        Although, my mother already got her check!

        1. E. B. says:

          Hahaha “Future Fake News” is ‘classy’! :-)

        2. Mercy says:

          K are you sure she got a check? I didn’t think they signed the bill yet. I could be wrong, I’m no contact with Trump right now. He makes me hurl.

          1. K says:

            The stimulus has been signed and my mother called me to tell me she got a surprise in the mail: $1000.00. I was surprised and confused. I watch the evening news every night so it’s hard to go NC with Trump.

          2. NarcAngel says:

            I believe the cheques are only a proposal at this point. You don’t think she may have received a cheque from her perspective but lied from your perspective do you?

          3. K says:

            That’s definitely a possibility but I think what she actually received was the Senior Circuit Breaker Tax Credit because the stimulus checks aren’t going out until April 6th.

            Honestly, most of the time she doesn’t make a lick of sense!

          4. Kim e says:

            K. According to the news here in the states tonight the first round of checks would go out first week of April.

          5. theletterafterj says:

            Kim e
            They can’t come out soon enough; people are very worried. One of my friends has to apply for unemployment benefits.

          6. Kim e says:

            I get it. I have 2 sons. One will be ok. The other I am not sure of as he is retail/gas. If he gets laid off, I will send him my money

          7. K says:

            Kim e
            Awwww…you are such a good mom! Knock-on-wood, both of my adult children should be fine…hopefully. It’s starting to look like The Walking Dead. I went out earlier and many places are closed down and parking lots are empty.

          8. Mercy says:

            K, I didn’t say it was HG approved NC. I still have to keep up to date with the news. I got a little obsessive reading C19 and Trump updates so I’m limiting myself. Last I read (earlier today) it’s still a proposal.

            My favorite narc (Trump) quote of the day “We are also playing with a lot of numbers, a lot of very big numbers and a lot of very small numbers, frankly,”

          9. theletterafterj says:

            hahahahaha….spoken like a true ULN!

          10. Violetta says:

            “We are also playing with a lot of numbers, a lot of very big numbers and a lot of very small numbers, frankly,”

            Who’s writing his dialogue, James Joyce?

          11. theletterafterj says:

            Hahahaha…I was thinking of Lewis Carroll.

          12. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Really. Not cool. Joyce and Stein akin to trump’s mumbling ? Get the fuck out Violetta.

          13. Violetta says:


            Maybe Gertrude Stein.

          14. Violetta says:

            I ran out of unemployment from F.U. right before this happened. Looking into whether I can take money out of rollover IRAs etc.

          15. Violetta says:

            Sweet P:

            Gertrude Stein to F. Scott Fitzgerald:

            My dear Fitzgerald:

            Here we are and have read your book and it is a good book. I like the melody of your dedication and it shows that you have a background of beauty and tenderness and that is a comfort. The next good thing is that you write naturally in sentences and that too is a comfort. You write naturally in sentences and one can read all of them and that among other things is a comfort.

          16. K says:

            Fake News! The stimulus wasn’t signed.

  37. K says:

    My MMRN has hoovered several time since last week. He asked if I needed anything (facade) and this morning he informed me that his brother-in-law may have Covid-19 and that he and my daughter had dinner with his BIL on Sunday.

    1. Lorelei says:

      Trump gives me $1000! Future faking?! He’s doing a good job with everything. Not a political leaning but as an observation.

      1. theletterafterj says:

        When he speaks, he sounds like an idiot but people desperately need financial help so I hope the stimulus goes through and fast.

        1. Sunshine says:

          Last election, I held my nose & casted my ballot.
          This election? No question who I’ll vote for.

          Trump isn’t the president we wanted, but when I look objectively at the improvements his decisions have made to the country, I’m convinced he’s the president we need.

          He won’t go back on money distribution; it’s not solely his decision, for one thing. He genuinely does NOT want to see our economy implode, which is where we are headed without intervention. Im mostly libertarian in my views, but I differ in this instance. This is one of the few correct uses of our tax money & the federal government in general.

          I wouldn’t be surprised if it was actually more than $1K when it’s all said & done.

          As for NOWIS, I don’t anticipate a hoover text from him as he still has no use for me, I’m sure.

          What I wouldn’t do for a time machine to go back to May & not send that text.

          Sigh. Live & learn.

          1. Contagious says:

            I am glad of certain reactions worldwide. Moratoriums, bailouts, checks but US has contracted this quarter to the likes of WW II. What’s to come? We all are in this together whether fears of deaths or job losses. It’s a balancing act with no answer. I am frustrated. Why no actuarial analysis to balance decisions? Many factors are beyond our control but it’s not like we have not had 1918, SARS, the swine flu, … I guess we are ONE while we wait but the uncertainty eats us all. Narcs seem to be spinning as loss of control, isolation and low fuel.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Just blame it all on “the Chinese Virus” to avoid the threat to “its the economy, stupid”.

          3. Contagious says:

            Watching Trump proudly address the nation, “We are 42 to 0…. ” ummm……

          4. Lorelei says:

            Sunshine—I agree. I feel very fortunate because I don’t need the money and can’t imagine what people are dealing with that have no one to lean on. Work has totally changed from just 24 hours ago as we re-imagine how to manage what is ahead and happening. We have confirmed cases as of yesterday and the complication rates are increasingly concerning We don’t have the intensive care beds to manage this—we don’t have enough nurse & physician staff to manage this at all, not to mention ECMO when the ventilators are no longer enough..We have an anticipated spike forecasted and it’s alarming. Schools will not be able to re-open this year. The impact on children from high need areas will be immeasurable because school is often their safety net. I could work 16 hours a day if I wanted.

          5. SMH says:

            Lorelei, You are on the front lines and we are all very grateful to medical personnel, so thank you!

        2. Lorelei says:

          Also K—people are absolutely unable to even stock up because they live paycheck to paycheck. It’s a mess.

          1. theletterafterj says:

            It’s really bad! People are very concerned about finances/work (there is none) and the girls wanted to go to the playground and the town shut them all down this morning.

          2. Lorelei says:

            Luckily the children’s father won’t cause issues taking them anywhere inappropriate. He’s lazy & cheap
            so even if I sent a reminder re, social distancing it would not be challenge fuel—it would serve to massage his facade of doing the right thing and be “double” self serving by not paying for anything by having them be entertained! I’ve got him pegged like the disease process he is.

          3. Lorelei says:

            I wonder if HG can don a Steve Irwin outfit and do a documentary on my ex. Narrate it as he sits and shows twitches of cold fury..!

          4. HG Tudor says:

            Email me and we will discuss my fee!

          5. Lorelei says:

            You know it would be funny. I’m glad you are so open to our humor in regard to their antics. I had one tell me the other night he didn’t like how I said no. I said, “you mean like this—“No!” He couldn’t thrust further because he was being escorted out. I love the more honest lessers. Truly. I want one.

          6. Kim e says:

            Maybe Santa has one in the lesser coal bin that was not delivered last year and he could be YOURS!!!!!!

          7. Lorelei says:

            Kim—my personal favorite is where a typical whiny mid ranger looks down upon a lower lessers behavior. I’m screaming inside that they are both equally cavemen!

    2. E. B. says:

      I do not see it as facade management. It was a benign hoover.
      I think it is not true what he said about his BIL.
      1- He said BIL *may* have covid-19.
      2- He used your daughter to make you react in case that No. 1 does not work.

      1. theletterafterj says:

        E. B.
        Hahahaha….definitely a benign hoover! According this mornings the text message, his BIL came home from Israel and he currently has a fever and he is being tested today. His BIL is a nurse so who knows???

        Fear mongering doesn’t work with me and I responded to today’s text message with this word: “Ok”.

        No drama whatsoever from me.

  38. Anm says:

    Daughter’s father is a bit histrionic and super controling. Strange rituals for cleanliness, and obsessive doomsday talks that are irrelevant to coparenting.

    Went on a date with an acquaintance who is 35, cute, scientist with a PhD
    , but he asked me to marry him over text last night. I am wondering if he is an Upper midrange cerebral narcissist for doing such a thing after one date.

    1. theletterafterj says:

      Big Red Flag, Anm! be careful.

    2. Sunshine says:

      Grab your kicks, sister, put ’em on & FLEE THAT SCENE!!
      I’m sure you’re a fantastic date, and I think it’s great when people date to find a spouse, but it’s waaayyyy too early to bring up the “M” word now.

      Just my $.02 FWIW

    3. E. B. says:

      As K said, big red flat. Please go No Contact now.

      1. theletterafterj says:

        E. B.
        Damn skippy! I reread Red Flag: 50 Warning Signs of Narcissistic Seduction last week and chapter 13 was: Early engagement /marriage.

        1. E. B. says:

          Yes, Red Flag is excellent.
          Men who are not narcissists do not behave like that. This is why I wanted to warn Anm.

          1. Violetta says:

            I think that’s next on my list. Does it cover Work Narcs or only potential intimidate Partners? I need to watch out for my next “mentor.”

          2. HG Tudor says:

            It covers various narcissists.

          3. E. B. says:

            Although it is mainly about romantic relationships, narc friends and work colleagues wanting to ensnare you as a NISS will do similar things such as monopolizing your time, bombarding you with calls/texts, flattery, manipulating you with gifts, not caring about your boundaries and going to your house without asking you first, etc.
            They will exhaust you if you are an introvert.

    4. Anm says:

      Thanks ladies. Yeah, it is weird. I had a narcissist in my life propose after the first day before. It was a different tone than this. That narcissist made it clear he was seriouus.that he would only date me if I would consider marrying him etc.
      This was like a super nerdy, end of the world, please marry me bs. It was strange, and I laughed it off assuming it was a joke, and made a quarantine and chill comment. It was a weird situation.

  39. E. B. says:

    “It has given/it will give the narcissist a platform for facade management.”

    I am so glad that you mentioned it, HG. I thought I was the only one noticing what is going on. I recognized MMRNs taking advantage of this opportunity to show their fake concern for the elderly, the sick, the poor, the weak. Their empathy is “selective” and they are blowing their own horns but nobody seems to notice it.

    I have tried to warn people that the kindness a particular individual was exhibiting towards them was not genuine. I was not believed. One of those victims said that she had made a mistake believing that this ‘generous’ individual did not like them. Another thinks the narcissist has changed. These victims are not new to narcissism. Maybe they are getting the information from the wrong sources.

    I feel like the boy in The Emperor’s New Clothes.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Well stated.

    2. Gina says:

      Me too!! The MMR is using it to get in more time with our son who is freaked out by the virus. Son has OCD, and his dad will use that to show concern. I don’t anticipate that lasting.

      I used to wonder why the MMR, before I knew he was an MMR, would get so excited / manic whenever there was some kind of crisis. Like even when the power went off or something he would run around the neighborhood helping.

      Don’t bother trying to out him. It takes too much effort. Most of the time you aren’t believed. People just have to make up their own minds.

      1. E. B. says:

        Sorry to hear the MRN is spending more time with your son.
        Some narcsisists will lash out at others at the supermarket. Some will fight over a hand sanitizer bottle they do not need. Healthy narcissists looking for fuel are posting about their “anxiety” and that they may have “it” every day on social media.
        They are enjoying all this drama, this doomsday scenario and hysteria they have created.

        1. Violetta says:

          DM headline:

          “Baltimore Mayor begs residents to stop shooting each other and ‘clogging up’ hospital beds which need to be kept open for coronavirus patients after SEVEN people are shot in a single night”

        2. Contagious says:

          Yes! My MRE Narc has been doomsday since it began! He loves it yet truly believes he is dying. Why? Everyone else is just anxious! I got hundreds of calls. I took one and hung up when the unknown caller is him. My phone buzzes all night. He got another to send me messages. He is technically my husband of 6 years lives in UK. I live in California. He is going “ to die, don’t I care” if . Love songs then rants. He is losing it. Completely off the rails. What is going on HG? Something about this virus has him nuts.

          1. Contagious says:


          2. E. B. says:

            Many narcissists and also narcissistic people love drama, they are not anxious. From what you said, he is changing his manipulations and bombarding you with hoovers because you are not reacting ‘as expected’. I would keep on ignoring him. He is not your responsibility. He is reponsible for his health and should call an ambulance if he believes he is going to die.

      2. I believe you Gina.

        Hilarious re the crisis thing too. I’ve noticed that with some Ns too.

      3. Anm says:

        Gina, yes. my sons father is a mmr. I havent heard much from him because he has a girlfriend he is preoccupied with, but I remember he was obsessed with preparing for a society. When I lived with him, we had multiple safes with guns, antibiotics, opiates, and other medical suppliess.i actually allowed my son to stay with the mmr narc for a week. It’s always a learning experience overr there. My son always comes back with many questions.

        1. Anm says:

          *society collapse

    3. Violetta says:

      Angels With Dirty Faces and Overwhelming Angels thrive on moments like these.

      Speaking of which, the Markles just did their latest bits of virtue-signalling.

      Tough luck for anyone who has to go out to work (grocery workers, truck drivers, as well as health care workers) or people like waiters and bartenders who don’t have a job to go to thanks to the shutdown.

    4. lisk says:

      In an external communication, our boss tried to include something about our organization’s efforts “to protect the community.”

      I nixed it because it because it was too interpretive of the CEO’s original message. I urged her to stick with the facts (LOGIC!).

      She agreed but didn’t like that: a) I was right, and; b) that she couldn’t broadcast her supposed empathy far and wide.

      I clearly wounded her (not intentionally) and she still is punishing me for it.

  40. ava101 says:

    I can’t travel at the moment to where my latest narc like lover, and exnarc, are, so no danger there.

    More time?? Working full time as usual, plus panicky clients.

  41. Dolores Haze says:

    My Matrinarc (Middle Mid-Range Cerebral) is in denial regarding the virus situation, continues to work, entertain at home and go shopping. And it’s “making her very sad” I won’t bring my kids over to her place anymore. I had to confiscate her key to our house under false pretenses to make sure she doesn’t show up uninvited, because that’s what she’d do.

    I don’t know and don’t care how the virus situation is impacting the ex-romantic partner (Upper Mid-Range Elite).

    1. WhoCares says:

      “I had to confiscate her key to our house under false pretenses to make sure she doesn’t show up uninvited, because that’s what she’d do.”

      Good pre-emptive move Dolores! Stay safe.

  42. sharyn227 says:

    Evening HG – interesting times globally – what is your opinion of Cold Therapy? best regards Sharyn

    1. HG Tudor says:


  43. alexissmith2016 says:

    HG Why do you think Boris took the action he did?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      The question is amorphous and therefore problematic to answer.

      1. alexissmith2016 says:

        Yes but its hurting my tiny little brain and it would be so easy for you. A pay for bulletin of some description…I’m sure many would want this answer.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I refer you to my earlier comment. I cannot answer when I do not know what you are specifically asking me.

          1. alexissmith2016 says:

            On a basic level, why did he take a different route to the rest of Europe? And why is he changing now.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            In accordance with the advice he received from the relevant advisors as part of the COBRA meetings.

          3. alexissmith2016 says:

            God damn it! So pesky!

          4. alexissmith2016 says:

            Unliking a trillion zillion times

          5. alexissmith2016 says:


  44. NarcAngel says:

    If only we would apply HG’s work to combat the dangerous effects to our health that the narcissists in our lives pose, with the same intensity that we are washing our hands and self-isolating. If there is any silver lining to this pandemic, it might be that it is causing us to stop racing from one thing or place to another in order to distract ourselves and actually look at how we are living. To be still. Time to read and apply the work not only to understanding the narcissists in our lives, but to question our own patterns and focus and new and healthier goals for ourselves as the reality of what really matters sinks in.

    The information on narcsite is the Lysol wipe to narcissism. Make sure you’re stocked up and protecting yourself.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Well stated, NA.

    2. fiddleress says:

      NarcAngel, I really enjoy reading your posts. Always spot on.

      1. NarcAngel says:


        I appreciate your kindness. Thank you.

  45. Sweetest Perfection says:

    I think I got several hoovers this last week. Because he’s blocked, I can’t be sure it’s him. But I don’t usually get many calls from Japan, Mexico, and NY one minute apart from each other on the same night. And an email from a fake person asking for personal information. I’m not surprised as I know he’s on the beach with his wife and in isolation as they have started to close everything so he just be bored AF.

    1. Sweetest Perfection says:


      1. Sweetest Perfection says:

        But hey, what’s social distance when you can send a dick online, huh?

        1. Supernova DE says:

          Haha! I forgot yours liked to send dick pics…mine did too.

          I got a fake FB friend request, fake IG follow request, suspicious one line email “I miss your body.” and then finally an ACTUAL message from newly created FB profile but he used his real picture and real name so that one was legit and direct. All of that was within a four hour time span…..he must be really bored!

          1. Kim e says:

            Supernova DE. I don’t think it is a matter of boredom but that their routine is messed up. They have work matrix routines and they can’t get to a bunch of the miss’s they usually can at work

          2. Sweetest Perfection says:

            It’s not really boredom, Kim e, you’re right. It’s lack of fuel. He usually gets tons of fuel at the beach from going to the bars shirtless and showing his six pack and getting people around him admiring his body, but with the pandemic and the bars closing and the people staying home, all that is gone.

          3. Sweetest Perfection says:

            “I miss your body.” What a red flag! He’s not even pretending to miss YOU.

          4. Violetta says:

            The Ed Sheeran approach: “I’m in love with your body.” But if it develops wrinkles, arthritis, or you tend to get puffy from PMS, I’m outta here.

          5. lisk says:

            The sad thing is: so many of us like/want/need to hear that.

            That’s a/the problem.

          6. Supernova DE says:

            He never had to pretend he missed ME.
            I was always quite content for him to miss my body…that one is on me 100%.
            He knew I wanted/needed to hear that from the start and it was what he used (successfully) to get back in every single time.

            Only after understanding narcissism from HG/the blog do I see the extent of his objectification. But again, I’m not sure its a deterrent for me, I suppose that means I learned to be an object as a child and I’m used to it.

            The only time it bothered me would be when he would try to get me to objectify him. He would want me to say things like, “Tell me I’m your fucktoy” or “Tell me I better make it good for you”. I like dirty talk (hence how he hooked me to begin with), but not that kind yuck.

          7. Violetta says:

            Things guys better not do during sex:

            Tell me when (or even if) to have an orgasm. When I tried to read 50 Shades and he’s saying, “Come for me,” I wished she would say, “Fine, as soon as you give me a good reason, ’cause this ain’t cuttin’ it.”

          8. Sweetest Perfection says:

            I don’t have that problem, I can do that at will. Now I’ve been thinking, re:TP, does anyone remember when Trump went to Puerto Rico after the hurricanes and started throwing roll of toilet paper at people? UBI SUNT?

  46. Em says:

    Narc 1 lesser (x husband) 50 a day smoker will do a pity play. Is already ignoring gov rules going to pub – causing adult children to worry.
    Narc 2 UMRN ex (i was DLS) is in the health and beauty world currently rebuilding business and facade – bad time for it. Bound to get a hoover. Already had a text from new number asking to talk. Not sure if this is Covid 19 related as yet.
    Hé will also do pity plays for sympathy fuel. He has respiratory problems so bound to be scared and possibly self isolating – although not good at being on his own so may have a new IPPS. Will definitely be looking for attention. Oh and will be big on porn.

    1. alexissmith2016 says:

      Love the last sentence Em! Truly made me laugh!

      1. Em says:


    2. Em says:

      Well and update on Narc 2. Out of the blue a friend who doesn’t know I was ever involved with him messaged me to laugh and tell me she’s just seen he’s on
      Never known him need to do that. I guess it’s the perfect place for fuel at times like this. He’s having to pay for attention.
      Sadly it prompted me to look. But that’s it. Didn’t feel too much. Also wondered why his suddenly appearance on fb hadn’t worked.

  47. deadfromthewaistdown says:

    I am an IPSS and I was painted white because we went away together last week. Since the COVID isolation and my narc is home with his IPPS, he is obviously feeling out of control and has been sending me malign hoovers and wanting an emotional reaction. I have been using all my willpower not to react emotionally and beg for him to make me feel better and that “things are okay with us.”

    1. Em says:

      Stay strong and silent – x

    2. Amber says:

      stay strong , I was painted black and discarded by my upper mid ranger narc. He hoovered after two years last week. Social distancing really is a bitch for these losers. The IPPS clearly in devaluation. Stay strong, think of his reaction x

      1. deadfromthewaistdown says:

        Thank you thank you Amber and Em

  48. WhoCares says:

    Ooh, great poll HG.

  49. About the eyes says:

    Times are great for narcissists. Not only indoors. I keep seeing them everywhere (television, internet), acting as “experts” on how to handle the corona crisis. Very dangerous.

    1. Lorelei says:

      Agree. Narcissists are a public health issue. There has also been “infrastructure” development due to it—we just never knew why all these “interventions” were needed. The root of it. You’ll never get a majority agreement. The cognitive empathy of the mid is too “real.”

    2. Lorelei says:

      Much of medical leadership is narcissism dominant though—they indeed are experts. True.

      1. NarcAngel says:

        Haha. It’s a good thing you can’t contract the virus through social media or we’ll be done for with the increased activity from shirtless somatics and their followers.

        1. Lorelei says:

          Absolutely NA! And I’ve got my goggles!

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