How Your Emotional Thinking Causes Excuses




The fact for so long you had no idea what you were dealing with resulted in you engaging in an anticipated behaviour. This behaviour is one which we regularly rely on in order to keep you in the dark. I have made mention of the various traits which we look for in those who make the most useful victims to us.

One of those traits concerns your ability to try to find the good in everyone and everything. This is a typical empathic trait and along with all of the others which you possess causes you to flare up on our radar when we are seeking an excellent primary source. Your desire to see good means that it obscures your ability to see the bad or perhaps more accurately, to accept the bad.

This is how your emotional thinking once again cons you and causes you to fail to see what is really happening, how you make excuses for the behaviour. Your emotional thinking craves the interaction with us, it is selfish and wants to experience all of the ‘good’ which flows from us and to convince you to ignore the bad. Your emotional thinking does not want you to acknowledge what is really going on and exit the relationship.

Your emotional thinking wants to gag logic so it cannot be heard and cause you to overlook the bad in the hope of recovering the good once again. Thus, your emotional thinking will make you issue excuse after excuse for what we do, so you remain invested in the relationship with us.

Accordingly, your emotional thinking continues our control of you. It is those who are empathic who suffer from this effect from their emotional thinking. They are convinced to consider their action as selfless, a reflection of how they wish to see the ‘good’ in people, how they make allowances and are tolerant – but when you are ensnared with our kind, all that is happening is that you are being prevented, by your own emotional thinking, from seeing what is truly happening and this is to your detriment.

Of course, at the time it is happening, you cannot see it happening because your insight is impaired by the emotional thinking. Occasionally, logic might just make itself heard (only to be ignored) as you notice that a certain behaviour is not acceptable but your emotional thinking rises once again and swamps that logic before it can gain a foothold in your mind.

Emotional thinking whispers that excuse for you and it is easier to accept that than go along the rocky road of logic. Thus, your emotional thinking keeps you blinded to the truth and it is only later when you have been punched in the face by the gauntlet of brutal honesty that you finally pay heed to logic and with hindsight realise how you have been conned. It happens over and over again and is all because of your emotional thinking gaining control of your thoughts.

This is something we desire because it prevents you from truly recognising what it is that is happening to you once your devaluation has begun. We of course love to operate from a position of plausible deniability, we court ambiguity since we enjoy and need to twist and turn in order to achieve what we want.

If you saw everything as stark and clear as I now describe our machinations to you, you would be more inclined to escape us and bring about that unwelcome cessation of our primary source of fuel. It would also make it harder to apply those hoovers when we wish to return you to the fold and have you engage in our cyclical endeavours once again.

We present you with the truth of what we are on a repeated basis but although we offer it up in front of you, we never let you see it clearly. We draw a veil across certain elements, apply a smoke screen, obscure some parts and distort others. The reality is there before you.

It is evident and plain but because of the way in which we purposefully manipulate you, you are unable to see it. It is akin to us pointing out a ship on the horizon. It is obvious for us to see but when we hand you a telescope to gain a better look at this vessel, the lens has been smeared with something which distorts the view, or we place our finger over part of the lens blocking your view.

The consequence of this distortion is to prevent you from truly seeing what we are. This in turn means that you are unable to form a clear and coherent view of the person which has taken hold of you. This becomes infuriating for others who we have not been able to drag into our façade, but who recognise full well what we are.

These observers tell you what you are dealing with. They may be circumspect to begin with, hoping not to offend your sensibilities but over time their increasing exasperation causes them to come out and say it straight. Yet, such candour rarely finds favour with you because you do not like to be told something about someone as wonderful as us (or at least someone who was wonderful).

You do not like to think that the golden period has gone. You do not like to be deprived of the idea that what you once had will never come back or even that it did not exist to begin with.

Most of the reasons why you think like this is as a consequence of our manipulative behaviour, which further foes to underline that it is not your fault. Even your desire to see the good in people is not your fault either. That is who you are. We know that and we exploit it. It is our fault again but of course in the midst of the battle that we engage in with you, we will never admit that anything is our fault. That will never do.

Thus, your view of us is obscured and because of this you will always issue excuses to explain away our behaviour, our words and our actions. You make these excuses time and time again, to others and to yourselves.

You believe these excuses because this is how you think and you have been led towards this train of thought by the schooling you have received at our manipulative hands and mouths. You also utilise these excuses to continue to convince yourself that the unsavoury elements of our behaviour are just an aberration, on occasional blip in respect of an otherwise magnificent person.

Your charity is amazing and naturally most welcome for through this blinkered approach you divest us of responsibility for the things we do, something which aligns with one of our many stated aims. You prevent yourself from examining further the reality of what has now ensnared you and the repeated application of these excuses keeps you in situ.

We want you to utilise these excuses. We want to hear them. We want them said to us and to others. Your excuses frustrate and alienate those who are against us, your excuses support out manufactured façade and most of all they ensure you deny to yourself that which is directly before you. Here are twenty-five of those such excuses. You will have said them and probably more than once. Understand that each time you utter one you have issued a further death knell for your prospects of escaping us.

  1. He is just tired; it makes him snap.
  2. He doesn’t mean it, not really.
  3. You don’t have to pretend with me, I just want you to be yourself.
  4. He has a lot on his mind at the moment.
  5. Work is particularly stressful for him.
  6. He sometimes has a bit too much to drink, but hey, who hasn’t been there?
  7. I think perhaps I am too harsh on him at times, it is my fault really.
  8. He is in a bad place but he will come through it.
  9. He is a complex person; you don’t understand him like I do
  10. It is just the way he is; I have got used to it.
  11. I know it seems bad but he does so much that is lovely; this is only a small part of what he is like.
  12. Nobody knows him properly, that’s why you think bad of him.
  13. He is a popular guy so he is always going to have women hitting on him.
  14. He has a temper, I know, but that’s part of what he is and it’s not for us to change him.
  15. I need to be more supportive and then he will be better.
  16. He’s not well at the moment but I will help him get through it, you will see.
  17. You’ve only heard one side of the story; he is not like that at all.
  18. Yes, well, his family would say that about him to cover up what they did to him.
  19. All he needs is to be loved and I am the one who is going to do that for him.
  20. You don’t know what you are saying anymore, it is okay, I do understand.
  21. It was a one-off, it won’t happen again.
  22. I know it was wrong but this time he has promised that he won’t do it anymore.
  23. You don’t understand the way that me and him are together.
  24. You are just jealous of what we have. Why can’t you be please for us, for my sake?
  25. I’m sorry, it was my fault.

Sound familiar?

To understand the origins of emotional thinking, how it operates and most importantly what you can do about it, obtain The Addiction – Triple Package

80 thoughts on “How Your Emotional Thinking Causes Excuses

  1. Caroline-is-fine says:

    Hope you see this…I can’t reply directly to your last comment. Thanks so much for all you shared…I totally agree that we empaths have a lot of compassion/care to give – but it’s also not an endless tap…so when people like narcissists don’t reciprocate in a balanced way/respect our boundaries, it only eases us up to direct our energies elsewhere…where it is worthwhile.

    Good for you, on getting through your hard circumstance with your sister! Narcissists in the family have to be one of the harder entanglements to deal with…so many complications. It takes logic & wisdom, and it sounds like you handled it well with both! Understanding our ET – getting more logical – and enforcing boundaries is so freeing, and I had no idea how easy it would be, if you just get going on it…I’ve found HG’s principles on such matters have helped me so much too…I felt like I was previously a pretty assertive person, but I had more work to do (still conscientiously work on it) – as even if your boundaries “just” slip in lots of little ways – or you let the emotional side take over “just” with a few certain people, you start to realize it builds up & before you know it, you feel burned out (or irritated). I find I can catch things sooner. All my relationships are more balanced. In fact, sometimes I can’t WAIT to say “No, but thanks,” with absolutely no explanation – to highly narcissistic types. Guess how much pushback I’ve gotten? NONE. (Gawd, really shouldn’t have uttered that – some very nasty person is now headed my way).😏

    With my nex, it’s a new feeling for me, to feel significantly less compassion for him. I’ve found it hard to accept that part, for myself. But he just shows up…I can’t control that – so I think it’s gotten to the point where because of that, I see him differently, unlike when I was his IPPS… it’s such odd behavior, so I’m more focused on that aspect than him. I’m not sure when he’ll stop cycling back around to me like this. I’ve completely stopped thinking of his childhood, which was always at the forefront in my mind. I was able to keep that level of compassion before…but now, I’m so ice-queen detached. It’s like I can’t even work up a tear for him. That lack of empathy makes me a little sad actually, like I should be able to maintain (balance) both high compassion with very low ET…but it’s changed. I know that makes my logic stronger, so I guess it’s a trade-off (going to read the articles HG suggested). I feel like I’m in a totally different zone now, in how I think of my nex. The worst part is that the more I’m like this, the more he seems attracted back to me, like he senses I’ve freed myself…maybe I’m just tired out, as I handle it fine (leave/ignore him), but there’s that tiny bit of doubt, on what he’s going to do. He’s done nothing though – just looks at me. I shouldn’t let it bother me, but it does…because it’s unpredictable. Maybe I resent that so much – that he’s doing this – that it broke my compassion.

    1. NarcAngel says:


      Good for you in gaining better balance. Thank you but no with no explanation is a great first step for many in asserting stronger boundaries for themselves. I doubt you could ever be an ice queen but glad to hear you are focused now on you rather than him and trying to mediate help between him and his family (getting him into therapy). Their problem. How much (if any) of this change has been due to moving on to a healthier relationship with a new focus and a better view of the difference between the two? What helped you to be able to open up to someone else again?

      1. Caroline-is-fine says:

        Thanks, NA…that’s sweet, but I do feel a real chill to me, regarding him (Ice Ice Baby).

        Before & after him, I’ve had healthy relationships (no narcs/treated very well), so I have to say I’ve always had/maintained an open heart (after proper healing from the narc), but I’m also the type who is very content/peaceful on my own…so it has to be something special for me to commit (I’m in a great relationship now). But one important thing is I’ve stopped my own pressure, in not feeling any guilt in turning away from trying to help my nex/his family. Especially the last 3 years, I’d felt like I was dragging my nex’s intensity (for lack of a better term) along with me – because he keeps reappearing. Finally, I got to a point where I tipped into BAM – I don’t care, in a personal way, like I preciously had. I think it was as simple as a logical, clear head to the reality. If he’s driven to do this, he is. Clearly, as much as I wanted to, I made zero difference in helping his family. Instead, he’s more stuck, as far as I can see (It’s too funny I could not get “he’s obsessed” right on the Hoover quiz – but with all he’s done since I escaped as his IPPS, that’s the only thing that makes sense to me!). An UMR is no Greater, but I think “therapy” was just a playground for him. Realizing that also helped me. There was nothing more to do. I did what I could – I cannot be chained to him for life, out of compassion. I do know when I can’t affect change & to drop it.

        Now if he’d drop it/stop coming around. That’d be swell!

  2. Love says:

    Just a clarification on healing… in my perspective…
    When I’m consumed in my emotions (and they run quite high) I need to move/exercise to regulate myself. It is actually recommended that 30 min of cardio exercise every other day is good for your mental health. It also helps emotionally regulate you. This is so I don’t implode. When I am at my highest peak of emotions, exercise in nature helps calm me. So I don’t blow a gasket. It allows me to sleep better too.
    No, this is not a cure all. But it helps rejuvenate and heal in that moment. Perhaps it gives me more clarity and the ability to think logically.

    1. NarcAngel says:

      Did cardio this morning. Put my hair in a ponytail. Tomorrow I’ll do it outside in nature.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        NA, enough of your toilet habits thank you!

      2. Love says:

        Nice NA! How do you normally release intense emotions? I see you more as the ninja coming out at night to fight crime. 🦸🏻‍♀️

        1. NarcAngel. says:

          Hi Love

          I don’t really save stuff up so having to release intense emotion is not common. If something does start to “stick” I first order it away by yelling No! internally (in a forceful not fearful manner) and focus on something else. I prefer to do physical work to take my mind off things. Gardening, painting, organizing, and building all result in something beautiful and satisfying rather than giving into dark thoughts that really cannot be undone and serve no purpose. Been there, done that, and they’re not stealing any more of my time. I also go for long walks and mentally redecorate peoples homes and gardens as well.

          1. FYC says:

            NA, just a note to let you know I loved your response. Priceless. But I also agree that NA could as easily stand for: Ninja Angel, stealth agent of empathy, wit and justice.

          2. Love says:

            That’s very cool! I love looking at people’s homes, and getting a feeling about their life. I’m gardening now a days too. Even put together a garden box. Lol big win for me cause I had to use a power drill … and luckily didn’t end up in the Emergency department 🤣

          3. Violetta says:

            I found myself thinking about my elementary school teachers when I walked from Haworth to Stanbury. I indignantly told them (mentally, although I could have yelled it for all the sheep cared), “I didn’t come all this way for you to tag along,” and pretty soon I was concentrating on the knee-deep bogs (I went off the path), paranoid rams who looked like they’d charge me at any moment, bugs flying up my nose, and the Kate Bush song droning in my ears.

            No, not the right Kate Bush song. I kept hearing “Running Up That Hill.”

          4. NarcAngel says:

            Hi FYC
            Any Ninja action is more relegated to words as my age climbs haha. I’ll go down still swinging if/when required, but it may look more like slow motion ninja.

  3. blackcoffee30 says:

    “Get out of here and move forward; This never happened. It will shock you how much it never happened.” — Don Draper

    Well before KTN and all, I’ve loved that quote. I printed it and affixed it to my car dashboard. I see it every day. I’m a work in progress.

    1. lisk says:

      Don Draper, a Narc of Narcs.

      John Hamm, a yummy narc, no doubt.

      1. blackcoffee30 says:

        100% delicious!

        1. FYC says:

          If you have not watched Mad Men again after studying HG’s work, it is a worth another look So many great N examples..

  4. Caroline-is-fine says:

    Thanks so much for your comment…traveling (exiting hotel)- going to get back to you on this! 🙂 Because right now, I’m feeling like: “Damn, Caroline – turning so cold!”

  5. Caroline-is-fine says:

    For some reason, I can’t reply to your comment directly – but I mean my (perceived) level of compassion toward the narcissist.

    1. HG Tudor says:


      Your level of compassion towards the narcissist will often be reduced. See “Why Am I Behaving Like the Narcissist” and “Understanding Emotional Empathy”.

      1. Caroline-is-fine says:

        Thank you, HG!🙂

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You are welcome.

  6. Love says:

    Interesting concept. Though for some, they know. They know from the very beginning who they’re dealing with. Intuitively. It’s a familiarity. Very alluring. If anything, the love bombing and golden period are overwhelming and cause them anxiety…. because instinctively they know it’s a facade. They want to get to the real stuff. Devaluation… that’s where the mask is off and the true relationship happens. They are not being ‘selfless’ by staying… no, it’s very selfish indeed. They’re there for a reason too. After all , they worked so hard to get past all the fluff. The curtain has finally risen.

  7. Presque Vu says:

    Yes yes yes to 1-25!
    I didn’t know about narcissism but I did find his behaviour very trying.
    I’d keep trying to understand him.
    He kept posting me a song, ‘simply red: if you don’t know me by now’… I kept thinking why is he doing this?
    I do know him.. I thought I knew him.
    I had no idea he was a total victim douchebag unworthy of my love and devotion.

    This is why logical thinking is so important.
    Snoop Dogg: Doggystyle album helps me with that 😆

    Fab breakdown HG!

    1. Violetta says:

      Figures he’d cite Simply Red instead of the Harold Melvin & the Blue Notes’ one sung by Teddy Pendergrass.

      To be fair, I’ve despised Simply Red ever since they perpetrated a two-chord song. Even 3-chord punk takes more than that.

      OTOH, Jane’s Addiction pulled off the 2-chord song. Hmm.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        I’ve despised Simply Red because of their name.

        1. Violetta says:

          Is it worse than Green Day? They were stoned when they picked that.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Far worse.

          2. Violetta says:

            From Wikipedia:

            The group adopted the name “Red” (after Hucknall’s nickname, denoting his hair colour) but then Hucknall decided it would sound better with the addition of the word ‘Simply’.[9]

            Kinda boring origin, but not unforgivable.

            The band’s name is also linked to Hucknall’s allegiance to being a supporter of Manchester United, as the club’s home shirt colour is red.[10]

            Anathema! Anathema Maranatha!

        2. NarcAngel says:

          It’s Simply Red because The Ginger Whinger is not PC.

          1. Another Cat says:

            Lol, haven’t even given the name a second thought yet, like Hucknall though.
            Guys you need to sue me but that man doesn’t sing out of tune + is jazzy in some of his less famous songs.

          2. Violetta says:

            Oh God, that whining voice… I suppose Hucknall thinks he’s being “expressive.”

  8. Renarde says:

    It’s funny how you can have read an article several times but then you read again and something springs out.

    It seems to me that HG is describing the opposite of what happens when an unaware narc has a bit of a damascene flash. Their narc thinking automatically folds back on itself to assert that 1 – They are not a narc and therefore 2 – they are a ‘good person’.

    In this article, the empath allows their emotional thinking to guide the emotional reaction because anything is better than as HG says, ‘going down that rocky road’.

    So the concepts that last year I was giving serious thoughts on, the fractal universe; the way that a simple mathematical equation can produce these self repeating patterns. The graph continually folds back on itself. But not all numbers will lead to a pretty pattern. These are the numbers that simply fly off the chart. We say mathematically, ‘tend to infinity’.

    Why is this important? Because it is the way that society is keeping itself in balance. If the E did not have the function to ignore the blatantly obvious, narcs would never have the footholds that they do.

    If you look at various internet message boards, a very good proportion state that at the first sign of red flags, they bail. I believe them. It’s only E’s who repeatedly ignore, explain away, perhaps sometimes challenge but then make excuses.

    So going back to my fractal model. Unweaponised E’s and unaware Ns are continually rebounding on themselves. Aware Ns and weaponised Es have the ability to tend to infinity.

    However, weaponised E’s can still get caught in the maelstrom. Just like I did last year with the MME. Now with the benefit of 9 weeks with only a small contact at the beginning, I can categorically say I was in the middle of unbelievable ET which was then informing my ER. I needed help to get out of it, which I received via the NDC.

    I hope this makes sense and is not too much of a ramble!

    1. fiddleress says:

      Hi Renarde
      What is MME, please?

      1. Renarde says:

        Middle middle Elite

    2. Love says:

      Thank you for educating me on fractal models. So essentially, most narcs/empaths are in a loop. However, aware narcs are able to break this loop and ‘tend to infinity’? How so? Aware narcs (assuming meaning Greaters/psychopaths) are in a continuous repeating pattern. They do not break free of their chains.

      1. truthseeker6157 says:

        If someone is aware, then they have the ability to change. Many empaths are unaware of what they are because their behaviour is normal to them.
        Most narcissists are unaware of what they are, and would also resist becoming aware.
        These two groups therefore have no opportunity for change and are caught in repeating behavioural patterns.
        The weaponised Empath is aware. Aware of what she is, aware of narcissistic influence and aware of how to avoid it, to break it and escape. She therefore has a choice. Perpetuate the pattern or break to infinity.
        The aware narcissist, also has the capacity for change. We only know of one who is fully aware. Greaters know they need control etc but are still largely oblivious to the reasons why. So the aware narcissist (HG but possibly a handful of others) also has the capacity for change. He has the knowledge, the means to escape into infinity also and break the repeating pattern. The issue is more that he sees no reason to do so, unlike the empath who has every reason to do so.
        How Psychopathy feeds in to this I have no idea. In some ways it might actually make breaking the cycle easier but I don’t know enough about it to say.
        That’s how I see it, but I might be wrong. I defer to those with more experience.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          1. Empaths are misled by emotional thinking. They gain a foothold through logic, ET tries to throw them off course and will do repeatedly. The more logic is used, the lower the ET becomes and the weaker it becomes thus allowing logic to be used more often. The ET can however surge for reasons explained in Future Protection and Narc Repellant and empaths must recognise this and heed the warnings and advise contained in that material, to fail to do so is to be governed by ET.
          2. Lesser and Mid Range Narcissists have no awareness. They do not consciously resist awareness, their narcissism prevents any awareness ever occurring. It is hermetically sealed and cannot be penetrated because it will never allow any attempt to even be made. Any “apparent” change is just a manipulation although the victim is often misled into thinking it is a genuine, permanent change owing to not understanding narcissism and their ET.
          3. Greater Narcissists are aware but have no reason to change, the level of effectiveness is such that alteration is not necessary. Modifications may occur, but only within the scope of the Greater´s Narcissism i.e. the change aids control and does not work against it. The Greater has no capacity for permanent, wholesale change either, but for reasons different to the Lesser and Mid-Range.

          1. Understood. Thank you for the clarification HG

          2. HG Tudor says:

            You’re welcome. I will provide you with the required accuracy.

          3. Narc noob says:

            “2. Lesser and Mid Range Narcissists have no awareness. They do not consciously resist awareness, their narcissism prevents any awareness ever occurring”

            So a MRN would never stumble across your blog to gain further understanding and use this in their arsenal as they can never see themselves clearly. We empaths who see behaviours you speak about on here, that we have done, that is awareness and due to us accepting that, the flip side is that we can not be narcissists? Bit of a long shot maybe.

            Narcissists can be aware in as much as they can see other peoples behaviour and see it as detrimental.

          4. Caroline-is-fine says:

            Will an Empath who has built a strong logic base in regard to a narcissist lose some compassion, as a trade-off? Is it understandable that it can feel like this?

          5. HG Tudor says:

            Compassion towards whom?

          6. Alexissmith2016 says:


            I used to feel compassion for everyone no matter how bad they were.

            Shortly after finding out about Ns I Continued to have compassion for them because of what they may have experienced as a child.

            I have now reached a stage where I’m 6 or 7 years down the line. I have no compassion for them whatsoever. I don’t wish anything bad to happen to them I simply do not want them in my life (unless it suits me, they exist and are numerous) but I’m unable to feel anything for them at all. Literally nothing. In balancing it out my compassion for anyone non N has increased dramatically as a result. Not something I have tried to do it occurred naturally. I guess we have a total level of compassion within us and there has to be an outlet for it somehow. That said I still maintain my ET at a low level the majority of the time and if it does soar in the moment I know how to talk myself down and let LT prevail.

            My sister put me through one hell of an experience something I had no choice but to go along for the ride (well I did have a choice but I would have stood to lose an awful lot if I opted out). I used every bit of knowledge I have learned from HG and thankfully came out on top. Literally no idea how this would have gone pre knowledge but it would have been incredibly messy emotional and exhausting . Instead I was able to deal with it clinically and effectively.

      2. Renarde says:

        Hey Love.

        Yes. To my own perception, you have grasped it.

        Lets take the Greaters out of the argument. Focus on both unaware Narcs AND Empaths. Let’s also ignore psychopathy. That is something different.

        Es have the ability to break free. Unaware Ns cannot do this. Both can be caught in the loop. I like that expression. A lot. But because Es have the ability to naturally restore our energy; we will always win.

        The problem with Es is that we are almost monumentally daft. We give, we give and then we give some more. Usually at this point, we are on our knees. It’s in our nature to do so. And that’s precisely what we do.

        Weaponisation is a glamorous concept. Suddenly we have taken the power back.

        But to answer your central question, all norms and Es have the ability to step outside of them selves. Takes a lot of pain and heartache.

        Unaware Narcs cannot do this. This will be their ‘undiscovered country’. THIS is the Boundary Condition.

        As Empath, I can have my energy drained like a battery. I know my energy will be replenished. Through food and sleep.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          The restoration of energy is nothing to do with winning. You can eat and sleep and still be ensnared by a narcissist with all the detrimental consequences that arise, therefore replenishing your energy does not achieve “winning”. If it was as easy as eating and getting a night’s rest, people would be in completely different places, it is much, much more than that.

          1. Renarde says:


            I’m sorry, I’m having a spectacular fail here.

            I’m pretty sure I did not mention ‘winning’. I do not wish to win. I want to live.

            I have studied the concept of energy. In all ways and forms. Then you HG added a new dimension. Which I respect.

            Eating and sleeping does restore energy. No question.

            I agree it’s not straightforward. I remember full well when I was with the UMS, how much weight I put on. It was 8 stone. And it wasnt even that I was even overeating. I wasnt. My body went into total collapse. I recovered.

            Many arent as fortunate.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            You wrote

            “But because Es have the ability to naturally restore our energy; we will always win.”

          3. Renarde says:

            You’ve got me there, you tinker!

            Es will always win. But its not about winning as some kind of erstaz concept where ego is goal.

            Winning is not the goal. Living is goal. That’s what I meant.

            Holding the whip hand over a narcs head doesnt get my girly bits going. Being kind does though.

            Apologies if my words were not clear as they should’ve been.

          4. HG Tudor says:

            They still aren’t.

          5. Love says:

            I understand what you meant Renarde. It’s not a “Win “ as defined by narcissism. I don’t care about winning or losing either. It’s about healing. Eating/sleeping/swimming/walk in nature… to heal. You will always get back on your feet. They can try but never will truly destroy you. You will heal.

          6. HG Tudor says:

            More misunderstanding. Most narcissists do not set out to destroy you, it is not necessary for reasons I have explained previously. Moreover, victims perceive the narcissist sets out to do this because of a failure to understand what narcissism is and what it must achieve and that does not (most of the time) mean your destruction (see Why the Narcissist Wants You Dead).
            Nor was what was written as a win as defined by narcissism. Renarde stated winning was about sleeping and eating, it is not. If you have been ensnared, sleeping and eating, swimming and walking in nature will not get you back on your feet, there is more to it than that.

          7. Love says:

            I just meant I understand her definition of the word Win. Her definition is Not the narcissistic meaning. I understood it is about healing. I also understand a narc does not intentionally destroy because that would be a loss of fuel. Yet their actions and words can truly devastate people who love them… but those people can heal.

          8. truthseeker6157 says:


            I always enjoy your comments. You are clearly a lot further ahead with your understanding of all things narcissist than me so I make a point to try to read your thoughts on various posts.
            I have noticed a change over the last couple of weeks. Are you doing OK? Might seem like an odd question. Apologies if you feel like I’m speaking out of turn.

          9. Leigh says:

            Rrnarde says “But because Es have the ability to naturally restore our energy; we will always win.”

            I took that comment to mean that Empaths can restore their own energy with rest and food whereas narcs can only restore their energy by getting fuel from another human being. That’s why Empaths win. Narcs need Empaths to fulfill their basics needs, to live. Empaths can rely on themselves.

            At least, that’s how I took Renarde’s comment.

          10. Renarde says:

            You are all bloody lovely. I want to kiss you all but is banned by The Boss.

            And he is The Boss. I parsed my statement incorrectly. It was clumsy of me and I better than that. Far better than that.

            Correction sometimes is necessary. However painful it might be.

            Let’s be clear. Emps reknew their energy through natural forces. Narcs cannot .

            Narcs will, if we allow them, attempt to destroy us. Because they are unaware, they will not perceive they are attempting to destroy us.

            They will, invariably, think in there own heads, you think again. Pity.

            You have all been very kind x

          11. HG Tudor says:

            No, a narcissist will not usually attempt to destroy you. The narcissist must control you, this may lead to destruction but it is neither intended or attempted by most narcissists. A minority of narcissists will seek to destroy you, this is unusual for reasons I have explained elsewhere. The reason victims think the narcissist wants to destroy them or is attempting to do so is as a consequence (an understandable one) of not understanding narcissism and the impact of emotional thinking.

          12. Renarde says:


            What you have said is true. But he wants me dead. To cover up his crimes.

            I ask you, how do I live my life knowing a man hates me that much?

          13. HG Tudor says:

            I will advise further as planned in this issue.

          14. Renarde says:

            Thank you.

          15. Another Cat says:

            HG, Renarde
            I have experienced this. Trying to exercise myself to strength, making my hair look better, making myself look fresher with makeup. Vitamin rich food.

            Nothing worked, still exhausted, because I was living with a narcissist + was stressed to the core by a narc relative. I didn’t know this, but became aware.

        2. Violetta says:

          Otoh, if you’re eating and sleeping well plus getting exercise, you might be more receptive to Logic than someone who’s poorly nourished and tossing and turning all night. It’s hard to talk sense to someone who’s hallucinogenic from lack of sleep.

          1. Renarde says:


            I sleep but I cannot get to sleep unless in chronically exhausted.

          2. Violetta says:


            Are you getting any exercise? You don’t want to do it within 2 hours of going to bed because it gets you too wired, but earlier in the day really helps. If you’re limited by lockdown, skipping rope, ballet Barre, yoga are all things you can do at home. Even bouncing up and down to punk can be cathartic.

            Somewhere, Caroline-is-fine has a story about a field trip in which HG casually fends off all the inferior narcs who plague us. Like all the best fairy tales, it has more than a grain of truth. You are not a helpless pawn when you’ve got HG playing 3-D chess on your behalf.

        3. Empath007 says:

          I think narcissist have endless energy. They sleep like the dead, they don’t toss and turn about problems like we do because they do not ruminate. They don’t have to carry around things like guilt, shame, regrets…. I would imagine that saves a tonne of energy compared to us. A lot of them take excellent care of themselves (especially if somantic and obsessed with appearance) because they do not feel guilty about taking the time to do so.

          They say ignorance is bliss. And in a narcs case… I imagine it would be blissful to be totally unaware of what they do.

          We step outside ourselves at times because we actually care about the impact we are having on ourselves and others… they don’t. So its not exhausting for them. At least I wouldn’t think it is. Nothing is ever their fault. It’s always someone else’s fault. Must be nice to take no reaponsiblity for thier own actions or decisions. Sounds relaxing to me.

          That’s my two cents.

          1. NarcAngel says:


            At first, I thought it must be tiring for narcissists also, but over time I see the points you have made regarding the emotional toll on us, not to mention that we save them lots of energy by practically serve it up on a platter. Now I view it as just their normal in the same way we think we’re normal. Neither thinks of it -we just do what we do instinctively. Having children looks exhausting to me but people do it every day and can’t imagine their life without them. What differs to me is what each side considers success or reward from what they put their energy into. When narcs put energy into engaging with us the result is reward by fuel and they are further energized. When we put energy into narcs……not so much.

          2. Leigh says:

            Empath007, I agree with what you said 100%. They go through life without a care in the world. I still think its much better to be normal or an empath. I think thei narcs boundless energy comes from sucking it out of their victims. That’s why Renarde’s comment really resonated with me. I am winning because I don’t need to suck the life out of other people in order to get through my day.

            Mr. Tudor, I know narcs don’t go through life setting out to destroy people. They just need to fill their needs. I get it. Its just that many times, in order to fill those needs, they destroy people in the process..

          3. Empath007 says:

            Hello NA. Yes, we do not receive any benefits from the relationship with the narcissist. What I’ve come to understand about myself (and I am speaking for myself – not everyone else ) but I have come to learn that being an empath is just as neurotic as being a narcissist… for years I viewed my self sacrificing attributes as noble, caring and giving… and in a lot of ways they are… but like anything in life there needs to be balance and my neurotic need to “rescue” people is no better or worse then some of the actions of narcissists. The only difference being I am not trying to bring anyone else down… only myself which isn’t really much better.

            This is not to say I am some looser who has amounted to nothing. Logically I know that’s not true. As I have many wonderful things and relationships in my life. I have a great support system and people who attribute to my happiness. And I have also accomplished many great things all on my own. I can roll along for years with very little issues at all… and then BAM a narcissits enters my life and suddenly all my neurotic tendencies come out in full force. I can’t even claim it won’t happen again… but at least now I’m educated enough to try !

          4. lickemtomorrow says:

            I think what you are talking about is the capacity for self reflection. Empaths will intuitively self reflect as a means to grow and change. The narcissistic sees no need to do either. They are ‘fixed’ and their desire is for fuel, not growth or change. This would endanger their need for control as it requires a level of vulnerability. That is a place most narcissist’s don’t want to go.

            If I’m wrong, I’m sure HG will correct me.

          5. HG Tudor says:

            Self reflection also hinders because it often encompasses that human preoccupation with the past.

          6. lisk says:


            Remember to keep Sitting Target close by at all times!

          7. Empath007 says:

            “ The human preoccupation with the past “ – HG you are the original Buddha ! Do you know how many times I’ve meditated unsuccessfully ? 😂 I’ve read The Power of Now… I didn’t get it… let go of the past ? What is this rubbish. Haha. I suppose the only people who can truly accomplish it are Narcissist’s.

          8. HG Tudor says:

            Ha ha, no. I have observed so many times this preoccupation which holds people back.

          9. FYC says:

            With regard to the past, the brain records the thoughts and feelings of a memory as we were at that time. So if the memory is of a N, looking back would be counter productive because it would precede all we learn from HG’s insights. Post study at KTNU, we see things differently, we do not make the same assumptions or same decisions. We know better now. What once was before, could not be again because we have forever changed and our new insight gives us new vision. Those past Ns are but an illusion because we did not know what they were at the time. Now we do and that changes everything.

          10. alexissmith2016 says:

            E007 it is possible to stop focusing on the past again it’s all linked to LT/ET. Not narc level of course but it can be significantly improved. xxx

            I’d love to be inside the mind of a narc for a day. It would be a fascinating experienced. Just one day though.

          11. HG Tudor says:

            You can, see The World of the Narcissist.

          12. alexissmith2016 says:

            Read. more, more, more

          13. truthseeker6157 says:

            Hi Empath 007

            I originally thought that being a narcissist must be exhausting. But this is my perspective not theirs. This was explained, so then I changed view. However, I just read ‘Finally Understanding Wounding’ and I am back to thinking, it must be tiring.

            It’s true they don’t carry guilt and regret as we do. They don’t have emotional empathy so have no real need to consider or take in the feelings of others, other than in facade management. The problem they do have though, is constant wounding. Imagine how many times in a day someone queue jumps, talks over you, ignores you accidentally, cuts you up when driving. Someone in a waiting room doesn’t respond to a smile or the receptionist in a dentist’s surgery acts bored and disinterested because you are the 30th person they dealt with that day. So many wounds in the eyes of a narcissist. I am assuming here that tertiary sources can wound as well as just primary and secondary sources.

            I then thought about myself. I’m sarcastic. In fact part of the way I show I like someone is often teasing them or having a laugh. Even from me or from you, people who would never intentionally wound, we go ahead and wound them anyway. Every wound has to be addressed, no human contact also has to be addressed and that’s before they even start on competitors or people who genuinely don’t like them.

            To react to not being served first at a dinner party? To even notice to begin with? To be wounded by an IPPS because she comments that she prefers the blue shirt (because he looks sexier in the blue shirt) whilst he emerges from the closet wearing the pink? There is no real internal confidence. So much is reaction to or protection from perceived hurt. So much must feel like it is being ‘done to’ them. It is hardly surprising they are desperate to exert control and minimise the impact. You cannot excuse their behaviour towards others. It is undeniably wrong. Similarly though, to see the world that way, must be an endless game of chess. It has to be tiring to live your days like that.

            I poured so much energy into my own narcissist because underneath it all, somewhere along the line, I knew I was stronger. I honestly think I was right.

  9. Michelle says:

    Making excuses for people is a bad habit in general. Most people do exactly what they intend to do, and thinking otherwise is often fantasy. I’m an empath and I learned this the hard way, too. AeroNarc suffers from what he calls social anxiety, which I considered an excuse for why he wouldn’t talk to me some of the time. In his narcissistic mind, however, I am sure he just found some reason I was unsuitable to talk to. Narcissists never want anything they don’t think they can have. If they can’t have it, they find a way to write it off as not that great anyway.

  10. Becoming Observant says:

    HG, you actually said “it is our fault”… the collective “we”, you and your brethren, of course, but nonetheless a statement of accountability. This is a pretty big step for you, is it not? This is progress!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      No it is not.

      I am telling you it is our fault in the sense of enabling you to understand that you are not at fault. I am not issuing a statement of accountability.

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