Cross Pollution
Cross Pollution is a continuing danger to your No Contact Regime.
Are you struggling to escape continuing feelings of misery, anger, dismay and sadness?
Are you finding that out of nowhere you are wanting to find out what the narcissist is doing?
Are you wanting to date again?
Does your No Contact Regime not seem to be working?
Are you wanting to communicate with the narcissist in some way?
Are you finding you cannot shake thoughts and feelings about the narcissist?
If any of the above resonate with you, then Cross Pollution may well be a factor.
This Logic Bulletin explains what Cross Pollution is, what it does, how it affects you, how to recognise it and what you can do about it.
Add this to your logic defences for the low price of just US $ 10 and received a detailed audio file explaining it all for you.
52 thoughts on “Cross Pollution”
Vent Your Spleen! (Please see the Rules in Formal Info)
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Hi Fiddleress, I appreciated your thanks to me for the referral! I hope you did not feel I was implying anything. I was not. I was just surprised HG thanked me for the referral (very gracious) and so I put the thanks back where I see it belongs. I can’t begin to say how thankful I am for that package. I have no doubt you thanked HG previously too, because that package really delivers and that brings forth a lot of gratitude. But it was kind of you to reiterate your thanks to HG here too. Only a kind empath would take the time to do so. Thank you!
FYC: no, don’t worry, I did not feel you were implying anything. It’s just that when I realised I was thanking you only in my post (for the referral), I felt that I had made a faux pas, and felt bad about it.
I am at a turning point in my life thanks to HG’s vital (for me/us) work, and this week I am afraid that I am feeling somewhat hyper-sensitive. So that faux pas of mine (as I saw it) really bothered me.
I am trying hard to hang on to logic and not let my emotional thinking get the better of me. So I am spending as much free time as I have delving into HG’s work.
FYC, you are one of the kindest readers here. You come through as very calm and balanced too, and I appreciate your comments greatly.
Fiddleress, Thank you very much, you are most kind! If you want to share what you are going through and want a logical sounding board, I am here and I care. I know you can do this. Just give yourself the space to feel your feelings (not act on them) and do stay grounded with HG. His work is invaluable ongoing. I read daily here daily, after almost 2.5 years. Embrace the HG’s wisdom and logic. It will free you. Take care.
FYC, thank you for your presence.
I am not sure that I am quite ready to talk about it openly yet. It cuts too close to the bone.
I will just say that a lifetime, literally, of putting up with various narcissists close to me is coming to an end. I am of course extremely glad, it will be a relief and a new life is beginning for me very soon. But I am experiencing mixed feelings. I am feeling bitter (which is unusual for me, and which I hate), and angry, and full of self-pity, which I find pathetic. I don’t want to let those feelings obscure the better days that lie ahead of me, and yet this is what is happening.
I might be ready to discuss the situation sooner than I expect. Writing here unlocks doors.
Fiddleress, Please do not harshly judge yourself regarding your feelings. You are working through a natural progression of realization. These feelings are normal after all you have been through. Feel them and let them go. Do not judge yourself as your emotions do not define you they inform you. In this case, you are recognizing the significant impact of all you endured. Give yourself loads of your own beautiful empathy and then let go.
I too went through all kinds of feelings as I went through the realization. I am very glad to have emerged from that harrowing process. All I can say is it will pass and you will emerge lighter, more clear minded, at peace, and stronger than ever. I am so very happy for you that your time with the Ns is coming to an end. I am proud of you for being brave enough and strong enough to face it all and never relent and still retain your kindness and grace. Well done.
FYC,
I just wanted to thank you from the bottom of my heart for your gentle words.
I am going to speak very soon with HG, who has been wonderful, as he always is, in his response to me asking about a consultation.
I am now going to get a good night’s sleep. These emotions are exhausting.
Talk to you soon, dear FYC.
Dear Fiddleress, you are most welcome as always. I am happy to hear you will speak with HG soon too. Take care.
Hello FYC
Just a short note to keep you updated after your last post. I have spoken with HG, and I am so glad that I did this time too. I cannot recommend the consultations highly enough. I am feeling much, much less turmoil as a result. Still trying to get my sleep pattern back on track, but getting there.
Also, I read that you cannot see who likes your comments. It is good to know, as I sometimes “like” as a way of saying ‘thank you’, or ‘hi there’, besides ‘this is a great comment’, of course! So I will reply instead.
Have a great weekend.
Fiddleress, I just wanted to give a virtual hug of support. I have seen quite a few of your posts and therefore watched some of your progress. You are really going forward in leaps and bounds.
I can’t say I know what you are going through right now but those mixed feelings you speak of above, are still real and raw for me also. I am working things through maybe a lot slower than you as I was here 12 months ago.
I wrote a *letter to the Narc* only 6 weeks ago. It wasn’t worth giving to HG as he wouldn’t have been able to use it but basically it was all directed at HG and showed my bitterness, contempt, self-pity and also helplessness. I was angry and wanted to throw away my new thinking. I mentioned that he was just another cult leader with a movement to boot. It went on to say how much better I felt when I was ignorant.
My truth seeker trait won’t let me rest though, not until I figure the rest out and how the rest of my life looks given I am sorrounded by Ns. It’s still too overwhelmingly frustrating on that front.
Maybe this is something you are going through…. if not, apologies for using you as a sounding board!
It wasn’t worth giving to HG because it was inaccurate.
Narc noob
Thank you for your kind words to me, and your hug. I miss those in these times of social (I prefer ‘physical’) distancing.
I was at work today, so I am catching up with the discussion only now. You must have been really raging at what was going on in your life when you sent that letter to HG – emotional thinking at its highest. Not judging, because mine is doing all it can to remain alive and kicking.
I notice that you added you were a bunch of feelings that night, and that you apologised for the ‘cult’ comment. I consider it brave of you to tell us here, in your straightforward manner, what you wrote to HG – which you clearly and rightly see as unwarranted now.
I didn’t think you were using me as a sounding board, no apologies needed there. But what I am feeling at the moment is very different from what you described. I have not for one minute wished I had remained ignorant. I believe that knowledge is power and freedom. My bad feelings are directed not in the least at HG, but at myself, and two Ns in my life – one gone, the other going. HG and indeed narcsite are only helping me beyond anything I could have imagined, and other readers are too, through all sorts of posts, not only to me. I want to have understood, absorbed and put into practice everything *yesterday*; I am too impatient. Or proud.
Also, HG has personally helped me deal with what I put to him: the present and the future. There was one huge area that I thought I could overlook: the past. Well, not so, apparently, and that is where all my emotions (ET) are rushing into. I have called onto to HG to help me with that big chunk because I trust what he tells me. The evidence shows me I can.
I wish you all the best, Narc noob; I trust (not just ‘hope’) that you will find your own way out of what is causing you to hurt in your life. As you are still here, you are certainly finding what you need, and will move forward at your own pace.
NN: Your comment regarding your letter to HG:
“…basically it was all directed at HG and showed my bitterness, contempt, self-pity and also helplessness. I was angry and wanted to throw away my new thinking. I mentioned that he was just another cult leader with a movement to boot. It went on to say how much better I felt when I was ignorant.”
It sounds like you are dealing with many feelings caused by various people in your real life, yet you wrote a letter to HG blaming him (a stranger you have never met and have never been abused by and who has helped thousands of empaths)? Am I missing something? It would seem your letter of bitterness, frustration and self pity is aimed in the wrong direction. While you may see HG as merely a “safe” stranger to vent upon, do you feel this is fair and that such an action actually helped you?
I don’t know if I can, but I would like to help you see a different perspective. If you have N parents, then it was not your choice to be involved with a N. But if your interactions were as an adult, do you not see that you did and do have a choice? I am not victim shaming here, just illustrating that you have power. More than you realize. I know personally how easy it is to get sucked into a relationship with a N and I know how it feels to be lied to and manipulated. It hurts and causes great disappointment, but on the flip side, it also is a fantastic blessing in disguise. You get to OPT OUT! You decide what you will and will not accept. You get to choose what you will or will not I hold on to (emotionally or otherwise). You have the power. You are not helpless. Others actions can influence your feelings, but you are responsible for your choices and your feelings. You have control.
Instead of wishing you could still be ignorant, place the blame where it belongs, on the ignorance! Thanks to HG, you are now armed to see through the lying, manipulation, gaslighting, triangulation, and all other forms of abuse. What a gift! Ignorance have never brought a single person true happiness, only delusion. So how about you start anew? Take personal responsibility for yourself and your choices, and know you have the power over your life, not others. It may not be easy at first, but you will find your way. If you don’t do this, you will be resigning yourself to a lifetime of more pain and you deserve better!
I know you have a lot of ET going on in your comment, so I am assuming that is why you made the ridiculous statement that KTN is a cult or movement, and HG is a cult leader. Of course that is factually untrue, and dangerously close to a smear. Do you realize by saying this you are insulting all of the people that have been helped by HG’s excellent materials and his accurate insight and exceptional manners and professionalism? Would you feel good about someone lashing out at you in this way when it is clearly unfounded? Personally, I hope you apologize, not to me, but to all the others that may be offended by the inference; they deserve better too.
NN, If you want to talk out what you are feeling, about real people in your life or your struggles, there are a lot of people here who will be supportive. Of course like all your other choices, it is really up to you.
Well stated.
HG, how can my feelings be “inaccurate”? When we process information inaccurately or inadequately. Doesn’t change the current response, not until things are worked out.
Provide context for the question please.
HG, apologies for not giving context before.
You stated that “It wasn’t worth giving to HG because it was inaccurate”. You were speaking of the Narc Letter I wrote to you one night when I was high on emotions of self-pity, bitterness, and anger. The letter was a vent of all my feelings. I never sent that letter to you – for obvious reasons. I have apologized for sending it (now) to Fiddleress. I mistakenly thought she could have been experiencing some of what I was feeling.
I don’t believe my feelings were inaccurate. They were/are just feelings. They may not be the truth, I may not have all the pieces of the puzzle and hence that is why I was feeling that way.
You stated that this is a cult or similar to a cult. That is inaccurate. That is a statement, not a feeling.
Fiddleress, I appreciate your response and for shedding a bit of light into what you are experiencing. I admire your ability to get things done.
I sense that you are going through a lot of what others here need to work through before we can be completely free of our entanglement – the past. Our ET can grab hold of this especially when full NC is not in place. I took 2 days to recover after one of my familial Ns who I have let go, came over unannounced last week – purely ET that had me thinking I was a horrible person for not engaging like I normally do, for not accepting their gifts, and for my lack of hospitality. My compassion trait was soaring which made me feel worse as I could see the way my lack of response was having on them. So, even though we might shut off thoughts, communication, and distance ourselves the past can still arise even when we least expect it. You have not failed.
I would like to add that I did not send that letter to HG. It was some personal therapy I thought could help – writing all my feelings down. I have apologized for bringing it up here. I wouldn’t need to apologize had I vented those thoughts/feelings to a friend. Spontaneous reaction which was a lack of boundary recognition.
I would like to explain my “cult” comment, maybe not for you but at least for HG and FYC. I was born and raised in a religious cult/sect and my tendency has also been to follow some kind of ‘movement’ that is slightly off centre. These movements have been founded by someone making money from an idea/creative flair/ideology stamped with their name on it. There is only ever one at the “top” in these businesses/self help groups and as I have discovered, moving here, they are usually MMR or (largely) UMR narcissist’s! I see similarities here with the set up I am used to in other places – but I am still here, so of course I do not think it is detrimental to me. I do find the whole HG series and his anonymity disturbing however I am out of time.
I want to add that I have discussed the situation with HG, and he has helped me greatly. So I am not pleased with myself for having these feelings.
FIddleress, Please do not add insult to injury! Your feelings are nothing to be ashamed of, they are natural and normal. Be kind to you! I have no doubt that HG was amazing as always. He really has a gift for all of this, and I too am most grateful.
Fiddleress:
You feel whatever you feel.
You do what HG says.
FYC, thanks for your support, to Fiddleress, I feel bad I stepped in but perhaps a few more tears is what I needed. I hope she doesn’t take my reply the same way as you did, but rather how it was intended.
My super component wants to respond but my martyr says its ok. I will oblige and offer my apologies to the *cult* statement.
I do wish to add that the letter I wrote one night was a bunch of “feelings”.
Have you got children, FYC?
FYC and Fidderless, I posted my response to you but I didn’t see the “submit comment” loading bar activate so perhaps my time was wasted. Apologies if it doesn’t go through. I may have to readdress these issues we spoke about elsewhere as clearly I need some more support to work through the mess. See you around, no doubt, and have a good weekend 🙂
HG, take two.
I did say those things about cult like similarities (above). While it was a different context to what I was speaking about with Fidderless (Ie: I was venting), I still do think I need to watch my back and be aware when I am on your blog and when I converse with you. That is a long way off from “cult”. If you look at the definition I have used the term incorrectly from the onset – from my (unsent) letter and then again now.
I guess all I am actually thinking about when I think sect/cult is what can go wrong, has gone wrong and will go wrong when one person is in charge with a bunch of followers (from my past).
I hope I have cleared the air. I meant no disrespect.
Narc noob,
My turn to send you a hug and support.
I read that you grew up in a sect. That must have been disturbing. I am not religious, and neither were my parents, at all.
I will have a good weekend, at least that is my intention! Same to you, and see you around indeed.
HG,
“You stated that this is a cult or similar to a cult. That is inaccurate. That is a statement, not a feeling”
Your first sentence and last sentence are correct. Which was in the past.
Everything I wrote was correct, not part of it.
Since you stated this is a cult and it is not (and in another post you accept this) then your second sentence is also inaccurate.
FYC, I don’t know if it was you that “liked” my last post to you, or someone else. If it was you, I am thinking that the conversation is now over as you didn’t want to add anything extra?
I have spoken to HG and Fiddleress on this thread addressing some of what you have written about also as they bought it up as well (please see my response to them).
There was one other thing you stated, “Instead of wishing you could still be ignorant, place the blame where it belongs, on the ignorance!” Have you ever had a major paradigm shift, FYC? I suppose you have. KTN would be one! This is the third consecutive paradigm shift I have had in the last 8 years and each time I have had the very same thought pattern, at some stage of moving through altering my mind-set. The same thoughts I had here, I have had in the past two shifts. These were all such a big shift that they impact all areas of life. During my past two shifts I too was skeptical at first, then I was angry and somewhat bitter that I had to go through it all as it basically turned my world upside down, and it felt better when I was ignorant. Then finally, after a few years, I was at the other side seeing it for what it was; freedom.
So far this “freedom” I am experiencing from KTN is a bunch of pain. The most excruciating of the lot is knowing that my own child is showing all the signs that HG talks about. I have a large family and although I have no contact with my 200 wider family (aunts, uncles, cousins), I have 9 Ns just in my immediate families (partner plus mine) alone. I know I am not the ONLY one. I feel like I am reeling out a pity play. I guess not having people IRL that “get” this stuff is what I am currently working on. There are reasons I can’t/won’t spend too much time on the blog to get what I need here.
I trust you are doing well FYC and thanks for the rap over the knuckles to take on more responsibility concerning everything I have on my plate.
NN, I do not have a WP account and therefore I cannot “like” comments, nor can I see who applies their likes to any comment. My comment encouraging self-empowerment over your self-described “bitterness, contempt, self-pity and helplessness” and greater happiness when ignorant, was actually my effort to help you. It was not a “wrap on the knuckles.” I took issue with your characterization of HG and the blog as a cult as it is factually incorrect and belittles those who follow the blog. That is all. Given your impression of my well-meaning comment, I feel it best I bow out of this conversation. I do wish you healing from your struggles. I am confident you will find what you seek.
FYC, I did see your post as support and that you were trying to help me and the greater good here on the blog. My comment about “rap over knuckles” was in regards to your thoughts that I can take responsibility for my feelings and the way my emotions and feelings play out as that is a choice. I am still working on that, I have some more growing up to do.
I hope you won’t take offence to me explaining myself even though you have asked to bow out.
No offense was taken from your further self explanation. My only objection was to your original statement regarding HG and the blog and that has been well covered and is now in the past.
FYC,
I was sad and hurt by our interaction but introspect has revealed it was more about my pride and how I perceived that I am not good enough.
I am still confused however over what you say about choices, emotions and feelings. I know that our feelings lead to the way we manifest our emotions and those emotions can then turn into choices as we act on them. If we had a choice over our feelings and emotions, none of us would need KTN, I would have thought? I don’t want to go over old ground but perhaps you were just trying to say my action of posting, was the issue, not my thoughts and feelings that I am/was grappling with?
Thank you for your time.
I am reading your comment just now, Narc noob.
Reading what you have just written urges me to send you double support.
Trust me, I understand your concerns about your own child perfectly.
We’ll be talking again soon, no doubt. I have plenty to work through in the coming days, then it will ease off gradually.
Hang in there.
Hello Fiddleress. I am not sure what part of the interaction you are referring to above but I sense you came by to answer me quickly as you have other things on the go.
When you do have the time, I would love to hear how you are going. I could take a few leaves out of your book when it comes to picking up the pace.
Also, I would love to know if you have done your EDC already?
Keep safe, NN
Narc noob
I tried replying but not sure if it went through (there was a glitch), so I will just write this part again here. I was referring to this in your post:
“The most excruciating of the lot is knowing that my own child is showing all the signs that HG talks about.”
Hence my double support and understanding.
I mentioned my EDC in the post that may or may not have been sent, so I will wait and see if it has gone through before I seem to repeat myself. Talk to you again soon!
Take care.
Thanks Fidderless, it seems WP is playing up as your first post didn’t come through. Thanks for clarifying in your post above. I’m more intrigued now.
You sound like you have a big heart, one of kindness. My compassion trait is higher than my kindness I’m sure so that could be one other reason I was drawn to you. Most likely you also have a dollop of magnet tendency- I had 0% when I did my EDC!!
Narc noob –
It is lovely of you to say everything you said!
I think that other people’s kindness – as I find here – makes me feel relaxed and then I can be kind maybe/probably.
As for my EDC, I am a “perfect quad-hybrid” (hey, I have found a way of being perfect at something!). Which means I can attract all sorts of narcissists. Hooray.
And I am clearly a Saviour . Which means I will attract more particularly the Victim narcissists. Oh, joy. But so true!
I loved doing the Empath Detector as the results were a welcome wake-up call in everything it said.
I also have some Magnet, Martyr and Geyser, but no Carrier.
Now I will buy Sitting Target to complete my defenses – thinking of myself as a ‘target’ gives me the creeps, so I want to make sure I am no longer one!
I will also read Chained, since my level of co-dependent is a lot and too much for my liking. The book cover is the picture of chains being broken: just what I need. And timely.
(Will talk about ‘the other topic’ some other time. Not just now, too soon yet.)
Hope you are doing well, Narc noob.
Fiddleress, I just read your comment to HG again on the 1st June. It must be heartbreaking what you are going through! I can not disengage, but the thought of what could be in store for the future, is not something I have the strength to tackle right now, or ever, so it feels. I see you are back again so something has transpired. I guess we all get through – eventually. Hang in there.
Hello Narc noob,
Thank you for your message. Right now I don’t feel heartbroken so much as dismayed. I realise that I am surrounded by narcissists, have been all my life. Not only narcissists of course, but until now there has always been at least one in my life since I was born. Exactly as HG says: as an empath, you are likely to have more than your share of narcissists in your life.
I have had 3 of them confirmed by HG, and the fourth one (my mother) I knew before coming to narcsite. That’s 3 assessed in the course of four months, and another likely one who is not important to me but still I interacted with him a few months ago, besides my immediate boss at my workplace, I am quite sure!
So: I have known about my mother for quite a few years (gone no-contact); then I got confirmation from HG about the man I met last year (gone no-contact since mid-February). Then my own adult daughter (there, I’ve said it) – she has just moved out of my home and I am keeping contact to a bare minimum ; and just yesterday, I got confirmation about my daughter’s father, who’s been hoovering me like mad lately – going no contact with him.
Dismayed I am, and pissed off, to tell the truth! Because I wish I had known all this at least 20 years ago. My life would have been different. But that’s the way the cookie crumbles, as my Irish friend would say. I’ll get over it.
So now I am absolutely committed to doing everything I can to lower my emotional thinking, because I know just how vital it is to me.
But I am glad that I know all this. I have enjoyed the peace and quite in my own home since Monday night. I am gathering strength again, I just know, I can feel it. Things are looking up, hard as they may be.
I hope you are keeping well, Narc noob. And yes, we all get through.
Fidderless, seems my response to your post hasn’t gone through.
Very interested to hear you were a quad hybrid! Having that balance would likely mean you shine brighter in terms of your empathic traits.
I will have Sitting Target next week also. Just a bit of light reading 😉 I’m wondering if the book has tips on what empath attracts what kind of narc. I couldn’t get the answer from HG but maybe that is because it’s tied up in the EDC. Logic says that the super empath is most likely to draw the greater in and the co-dep would more likely bring the lesser – due to their differences in narcissistic traits and what the lower and higher Ns can tolerate/control etc.
I have only just recently met someone IRL who shares some of this insight and for that I am grateful. I will let you know how that goes – first test I recommended was the EDC 😉
Hello again Fiddleress. It’s been a little while since I have been here. I don’t think you saw my last post here to you and two others I wrote didn’t go through. Oh well. We don’t need to converse, and I see you have plenty going on in your life, but I write this just in case WP is behaving.
I am in a similar boat to you. Ns everywhere. Thankfully only 1 in my inner circle of close friends but over the past 3 months I have been slowly withdrawing. One thing we don’t have in common when it comes to the Ns in our life is that of Narc boss. I am my own, for now. Ha ha!
It’s been 3 weeks since your daughter left now. How is that tracking?
You may have covered this previously but I missed it. What does the symbol mean/represent that you have in the image for this. You have it in multiple places.
Biological hazard.
Your comment here, amused me, HG 🙂
Thank you for directing me to this Logic Bulletin, HG. It is excellent and I highly recommend it to everyone.
Not only has it validated what I thought, i.e that because of my ever high ET due to the presence of my familial narcissist, I was ‘ripe for the picking’ when I met the would-be-writer N last year, but it has also led me to these conclusions:
1. I realise how crucial it will be for me to have as little contact as possible with my familial narcissist as soon as that is dealt with in two weeks’ time. Otherwise, my ET will remain too high and I will run a significant risk of dating another N again. This bulletin has reinforced my determination to implement near total no-contact.
2. I am not going to date anyone until I know that my emotional thinking is very low indeed (and I can tell that I am getting better at gauging my ET, thanks to the reading and listening I have done here). Not that I want to right now anyway, and I do not go on dating sites, but I have work to do before I can even contemplate dating again, whoever I may meet in the coming months. I plan on making the rest of 2020 a ‘single’ year (not a problem for me), since this has been going on for too long.
You are welcome.
Fiddleress, I think you would also benefit greatly from Zero Impact, I know I did.
FYC
Thank you for directing me to Zero Impact, you were right. I have listened to the files, and they gave me determination and more than hope: certainty, for the future.
My pleasure, Fiddleress, you are most welcome. Zero Impact is excellent, and when practiced, a life saver. Take care. I wish you the best going forward.
Thank you FYC.
HG, All the thanks go to you. I am deeply grateful for Zero Impact.
Thank you FYC.
You are right, all the thanks go to HG for this work, and I added these thanks to you after letting HG know that Zero Impact was precious to me.
I reiterate here. I am sorry I didn’t do so here ealier, HG, as it would have made sense for others to know too.