The Empathic Supernova



What is the Empathic Supernova?

In order to detail this phenomenon, it is first necessary to consider when it might appear and what is behind its appearance.

The repeated application of our manipulations is deployed for the purposes of maintaining control over you. This control reinforces our notion of superiority,  omnipotence and impregnability and enables us to draw fuel from our appliances and most of all you as our primary source.

I have made mention of the Empathic Group, the group which lies to the left of the empathic-narcissistic spectrum and within this group there are four schools of the empathic individual; the , the Standard Empath, the Co-Dependent, the Super Empath and the Contagion Empath.

The sustained application of the many and varied manipulations produces results for us. It also takes its toll on our victims. The Co-Dependent will cling on, desperate for the self-definition which manifests as a consequence of their ensnarement with us. They will soak up the abuse, the confusion and the control until they reach a point of breakdown. The cumulative effect of the silent treatments, the gas lighting, the physical abuse, the psychological trauma, financial mistreatment and sexual degradation eventually causes the limpet-like Co-Dependent to collapse into numbness, malfunction and potential hospitalisation. They gave and gave until suddenly they fell off the cliff and their fuel provision remained impressive on Monday and by Tuesday it had stopped. No longer capable of pumping out fuel, attending to our requirements and showering us with appropriate traits and residual benefits, this failure to function invariably brings about the discard of this individual. The disengaged from Co-Dependent, although distraught at the loss of the narcissist which they crave, is in no position to try to bring about the resumption of the relationship and thus, whilst we focus on their replacement primary source, they are allowed a period by which they can recover and once the lights switch back on again and the fuel starts to pump, the devaluation of their replacement has begun, so we come looking and hoovering for the Co-Dependent. Unable to resist, because of the nature of the hoovering and their own vulnerability, they are hoovered back in and the narcissistic cycle continues.

Whilst third parties may try to assist the Co-Dependent to see and understand what has happened to them, their own substantial need to connect with a narcissist means it is very hard to make them take notice and stay away from us. Unless physically removed and isolated, the Co-Dependent will drift back to us. If not the original narcissist, a replacement narcissist will invariably be found.

The empathic-narcissistic spectrum is a sliding scale that represents both empathic and narcissistic traits. On the far left the empathic traits are more numerous and stronger whilst the narcissistic traits are fewer and weaker. Move to the right and the empathic traits begin to lessen in number, their effects less evident and the narcissistic traits begin to increase and become more prevalent. Eventually, as one reaches the Narcissistic Group, on the right of this spectrum, the empathic traits have disappeared and all that remain are narcissistic traits which become more numerous and stronger the further right one goes within this Narcissistic Group.

Accordingly, with the Co-Dependent, he or she will have many empathic traits and they are strong in nature. Their devotion to love, their honesty, decency, excellent listening skills, positivity etc are most evident and contribute to create a highly empathic individual. The narcissistic traits are less extensive and the few that exist are generally weaker. Accordingly, this prevalence of empathic traits attracts and is attracted to the prevalence of extensive and strong narcissistic traits. They lock together, complementing one another and consequently the Co-Dependent is inexorably drawn to those within the Narcissistic Group, with next to nothing in terms of their own narcissistic traits to act as some kind of repellant.

The Standard Empath may also find themselves shutting down, but more usually they are prevented from reaching a position of complete numbing though the intervention of a third party. Sure enough the toll exacted on the Standard Empath is considerable and has damaging consequences, but, in general, they manage to avoid more often the fate of the Co-Dependent. Instead, rather than giving and giving until shut down occurs (as is the case with the Co-Dependent) the Standard Empath’s performance deteriorates in terms of fuel output in a more gradual fashion which means that when it dips below a threshold of acceptability for our kind, the Standard Empath is also disengaged from. Not so damaged as to be unable to function, the Standard Empath will endeavour to re-connect with our kind, having sufficient energy and ability to do so, but they will be shunned as part of this disengagement until it is time to hoover them. Unaware of what they have been ensnared by and with capabilities improved after a period of respite arising from the disengagement the Standard Empath is sucked back in by the narcissist and thus the narcissistic cycle continues.

The Standard Empath however may also realise that something is wrong, or assisted by third parties and more amenable to listening, takes notice of what these third parties are telling him or her. They have a moment of ‘awakening’ and with that realise that they must remain away from our grip, however hurtful and hard it may be and thus they eventually escape, putting distance between them and our kind.

The Standard Empath has numerous empathic traits and they are of strength but they are generally less in scale compared to the Co-Dependent. The Standard Empath will have numerous narcissistic traits but not especially strong in nature, but they will have more narcissistic traits than the Co-Dependent. Their status as a Standard Empath (along with the fact that there are more Standard Empaths than Co-Dependents) means that Standard Empaths become the bread and butter target for our kind. They too are attracted to us, not with the almost hopeless vulnerability of the Co-Dependent, but they remain not only attracted to our kind but a target.

Finally, there is the Super Empath. The Super Empath is an excellent provider of fuel also and comes with a confidence and a fieriness which proves most tempting to our kind. The Super Empath sees his or her role as helping, fixing, healing and brining goodness to those around them. They have considerable energy, they are capable and their capacity for sustaining our abuses also makes them a considerably attractive prospect. The Co-Dependent can sustain considerable abuse until suddenly, like a light being extinguished, that is it. The Standard Empath also can sustain our manipulations but their slide is slower and more gradual. The Super Empath, blessed with a vast capacity for empathy and goodness is also somebody who can sustain a lengthy campaign of abuse. There is no slide downwards with this individual like the Standard Empath. There is no sudden collapse like the Co-Dependent. Instead the Super Empath goes in to Supernova mode.

The trait make-up of the Super Empath is different from their cousins in the Empathic Group. Whereas the Co-Dependent has strong and many empathic traits with few and low narcissistic traits and the Standard Empath has a greater number of narcissistic traits  and fairly low narcissistic traits but more and quite strong empathic traits, the Super Empath has a different constitution.

The Super Empath has very strong and numerous empathic traits. He or she also has a significant number of narcissistic traits (more than the Co-Dependent and the Standard Empath but not as many as the Narcissistic Group) and they are stronger in nature than those experienced by the Co-Dependent and the Standard Empath.

This arrangement is not problematic. Liken the Super Empath’s narcissistic make-up to the light from a candle and their empathic make-up the light from a spotlight. The intensity of the spotlight is so bright that the candle light is barely noticed. Accordingly, the narcissistic element to the Super Empath does not appear. The Super Empath behaves in an empathic way and thus is a target for our kind.

There comes a time however when the sustained abuse and the awareness of the Super Empath reaches a critical point. Rather than switch off or slide into decline, the Super Empath will decide that enough is enough. In some instances, this means that the Super Empath will escape and follow a similar route to that of the Empath and distance themselves from the narcissist.

On other occasions they enter into Supernova mode. When this happens, the Super Empath will dim their empathic traits. This can only be dimming. The empathic traits cannot be shut off as they are wired into the empath’s dna. Moreover, this dimming can only continue for a period of time and is not permanent. The naturally strong empathic nature of the Super Empath means that it will blaze bright again.

However, when this dimming takes places, the gap between empathy and narcissism in the Super Empath lessens so that the narcissistic traits are more prevalent. They do not dominate nor do they take over, but they are allowed to ‘shine’. However, whereas in our kind the application of our narcissistic traits is unfettered since we have no empathic traits and thus these traits are directed in a malevolent, harmful and destructive manner, the Super Empath uses these unleashed narcissistic traits for ‘good’.

This means that they will fight back against our kind and remain in the relationship with us. They will shut off the fuel provision, they will engage in manipulation of us, having learned how to effect it form their accompanying journey with out kind. The Super Empath will wound and wound, striking blow upon blow against the narcissist.  It is worth pointing out that the Super Empath does not necessarily know that they are with a narcissist (they may only realise this later) but rather they know that something is very wrong in the relationship and it must no longer continue.

Thus when some people ask the question

“Can you become a narcissist from being with a narcissist?”


“Can I pick up narcissistic traits from my experience of being entangled with a narcissist?”

The answer remains no.

But, if you find that you are exhibiting such traits and you are deploying them against the narcissist, what has happened is that you are allowing your inherent narcissistic traits to have greater prominence. You keep them under control and you are not allowing them to harm or hurt innocent parties, but rather you are applying them against the narcissist in order to strike back. You always had these traits, you have not gained them by being with us, but what you have learned is how to manipulate from being with us and now you are turning those manipulations against us.

The effect against us is varied.

The Lesser Narcissist will discard immediately with a display of ignited fury as he seeks to escape the turning of the tables. He will need to get away from this empowered Super Empath and find a new primary source straight away. He wants to shrink from this blazing  supernova of power which is causing him considerable difficulty through the cessation of fuel and the wounding from repeated criticism.

The Mid-Range Narcissist will find himself in a tormented loop as he tries to assert control. He will not comprehend truly what is happening. He will not want to lose the Super Empath owing to the fuel provision, but he is finding that his ability to manipulate and the reasonable degree of calculation that he has, is being sorely tested. He will try to assert his control through passive aggressive means, even pleading with the Super Empath to stop and ‘why can’t you be good to me again’? He will roll out the pity plays and sympathy cards in order to try to achieve superiority again. However,  either the Super Empath decides to escape and leaves the Mid-Ranger in a confused and bewildered state or the Mid-Ranger slinks away and discards,unable to sustain the fight and needing a new and far more compliant primary source.

The Greater Narcissist will rail against this insurrection and fight back. He will draw on fuel from alternative sources (usually the IPSS or IPSSs he has in the wings along with fuel form those NISS who are his inner and outer circle friends). He will relish the challenge shown by the Super Empath and a real battle of wills ensues as each combatant deploys manipulation after manipulation against one another. This hammer and tongs clash of the  titans sees the Super Empath applying what they have learned, similar to the apprentice turning on his or her master, as the old hand seeks to slap down the irreverent upstart. The Super Empath may withdraw and escape, satisfied that they have made their mark and scarred the Greater. The Greater may ultimately recognise that only a stalemate (for now) can ensue and breaks off, discarding the Super Empath and focusses on the acquisition of a new primary source (or more likely the promotion of an already ensnared IPSS). The Greater however will not leave matters there. A note will be made to rejoin battle in due course and bring the Super Empath to heel.

Thus the Empathic Supernova is when the Super Empath determines that enough is enough and he or she reduces their empathic traits, allowing the narcissistic traits to come to the fore and in so doing he or she trains their sights on making life difficult, miserable and awkward for the narcissist. This is why our kind proceed with caution with the Super Empath. Their capacity for sucking up the abusive devaluation and their impressive fuel provision is tempting indeed, but reaching the critical point and causing the ignition of the Empathic Supernova can have dire consequences for our kind.

Not for me of course. I relish the challenge and the assertion of hegemonic dominance. Obviously.

208 thoughts on “The Empathic Supernova

  1. Asp Emp says:

    WTF HG? Apparently the Empathic Supernova does not exist?!?! WTF?! According to this stupid cow on the internet says a Supernova does not exist?! That has pissed me right off, HG. I know it exists. Otherwise WTF was it that I experienced?! It was not an orgasm. Certainly not. I know the difference between an orgasm and pure anger ‘explosion’. I know what I would prefer FFS. It is not ‘angry’ “sex” that I am referring to. FFS. Some people have NO fkg idea what they are referring to. Fkg hell. They have not experienced the ‘anger explosion’ I felt. Neither have I ‘experienced’ the total and absolute ‘mind-fuck’ of an orgasm to the point of WTF was that?

  2. doforluv1 says:

    HG ? with lower super empath traits , is it possible that the supernova still occurs ?

    1. HG Tudor says:


      1. doforluv1 says:

        Thank you !! needed this!

  3. leelasfuelstinks says:

    H.G., I would LOVE to know how we have been created! Would love to know more about the psyche of a Super Empath.

    1. lickemtomorrow says:

      I’m going with there being a narcissistic parent in the background, but that also relates to co-dependents.

      I wonder what causes any of us to have the leanings that we do toward one school/cadre or another.

      It is a fascinating topic, and you have to wonder the same about narcs. What splits them off and why?

      Hoping HG can continue to enlighten us about all these things.

      1. leelasfuelstinks says:

        One factor is genetics …

        and then ……….????

        H.G. will explain 🙂

        1. lickemtomorrow says:

          I think HG has done something amazing by determining the various schools and cadres for both empaths and narcissists. It is so much more sophisticated than other material I looked at before coming here which talks in terms of ‘overt’ and ‘covert’ narcissists, and the only distinction made of an empathic type is that of the co-dependent. It is truly remarkable in terms of being able to help us understand ourselves, as well as the narcissist, and how the deadly dance between us develops and is played out. I really never said RESPECT to HG before for opening up this world of understanding around our empathy and how it operates.

          RESPECT, HG <3

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Thank you.

          2. lickemtomorrow says:

            You are welcome, HG.

          3. Anm says:

            I agree! That’s what I love about HG’s books as well. It’s the ultimate work of studying human behavior.

          4. HG Tudor says:

            Thank you ANM.

          5. leelasfuelstinks says:

            RESPECT from me too, H.G.! You´re a wonderful Sensei!

          6. BC30 says:

            @LET I’m not sure how I didn’t see your comment about being Co-D and whether they are “weak.” I don’t think Co-Ds are weak, but they are completely foreign to me. Your strengths are things I would never utilize, so I struggle to understand Co-Ds. That, in turn, becomes disdain. I am working through it! 🤗🤗🤗

            I really, really hope HG writes about us in more detail. I’ve been going on about it and asking everyone about their results. I practically have everyone’s ED/TD results. 🤣🤣🤣

          7. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Some of the most loving and awesome people here are Co-Ds. The fact we don’t want to be identified with traits that reveal us as dependent on a narc doesn’t mean that cadre is worse than the rest. The enemy is on the other side, not within us. Respect.

          8. Whitney says:

            HG is not only categorising Narcs and empaths. His work is THE categorisation for human behaviour in general. HG is a genius.

      2. BC30 says:

        ✨LET✨ I gave your comments a lot of thought. I think your assessment is spot on. Co-Ds are not weak. I wonder why it is the only School I am missing. Perhaps only HG can know.

        I suspect that I am a kaleidoscope of coping skills and missing Co-D because I was raised by two well-meaning but ill-equipped empaths who forced me to shoulder the responsibility of a very large, intergenerational family that was comprised of many different personalities. I’m absolutely fascinated observing and interacting with everyone.

        “Ha, BC30, I had some disdain for co-d’s until I found out I was one!…Just another piece of the puzzle to help make sense of it all.”

        1. lickemtomorrow says:

          Thanks for coming back to me on that one BC30 <3

          Your initial impression was no different to mine as can be seen from the quote you added, and I do think co-dependency has a lot to do with having a narcissistic parent. It's either become a narc or a co-dependent. Survival strategies, which is what I think lends an element of strength to the co-dependent. We did what we had to do to survive. Now we have to backtrack on all that we learnt in order to thrive 🙂 I'm smiling at the idea of thriving, and not all the hard work that will involve!

          And it sounds like you had to employ plenty of coping skills of your own. That does sound like a complex and heavy load at times which no doubt impacted on the development of your empathic nature and skills associated with that. Thank you for sharing more of your story x

          It is fascinating to observe and understand more of others lives and stories, as well as have the opportunity to interact. All of it contributes to our growth and I feel like I've grown quite a bit since I've been here.

          Like I said, the pieces of the puzzle are finally coming together x

    2. BC30 says:

      Yes, yes, yes!! I want to know more about us!

      1. leelasfuelstinks says:

        Yeees, let´s convince H.G.! 😉 😀

        1. BC30 says:

          I’m trying! I think I’m in trouble at the moment tho. 🥺

          1. leelasfuelstinks says:

            What happened?

  4. nicole says:

    Dear HG Tudor

    You might notice that over the last few days I have been littering your page with comments on various articles. I feel like I’ve come home, finally. I am the person you may remember who after 12 years of being happy and content in a new relationship well outside of the narc – I am back. For revenge upon him.

    As i said before, my plan is in progress and has achieved more success than i could ever have initially hoped for. Mainly due to the fact he has no idea i am the agitator – he just knows ‘someone’ is trying to hurt him and he is blaming his current partner. The trigger for this behavior after 12 years of separation and 2 years of no 3rd party contact is that it has come to my attention that he is now devaluing a new partner at an extremely alarming and severe rate (think co dependent empath level). I have solid reason to get involved that is morally and ethically justified.

    My ex told me once that his ex partner had killed herself. His explanation was that he had caught her having an affair and had told her family. His wife was from the far east and culturally an affair is a shame on the family name, – so I know you already guessed it Tudor – he told her family and they disowned her. Unable to cope with the shame and isolation he found her dead from an overdose on the bed when he returned home from work. He did not admit that she died to get away from him – he span it that the far eastern often commit suicide when they have shamed their family and it is an honourable death. But I could always see what had really happened as soon as I became familiar with his personality.

    Our relationship was always a firey one but to cut a long story short when i entered terminal devaluation mode after 14 months – i fought back for the first time. I was done with trying to change him, id tried to convince myself to accept him as he was, id stopped trying to show him there was a better way. I wanted to escape and he refused to let me – and so as you say so accurately ‘the clash of the titans began.’

    He called my workplace. So I called his ISP service provider and got his hosting business shut down on the premise that he was using the service to dox and harrass me. It worked. He was suspended from the service and lost his pitiful income. He then sent a wreath to my work -i told all our friends he had pushed his wife to suicide. People began to question him.

    He then contacted my neighbors and my mothers neighbors to tell them I was a working prostitute. In response I uploaded a small video of him masturbating online and sent it to some of is secondary fuel sources. He responded by sending me an email with a photograph of him holding my spare set of keys in his hand…i ran to the cupboard and they weren’t there. He was missing, and had access to my house. He threatened to pay someone to petrol box my letterbox so i had to have the locks changed

    He then got one of his fuel matrix to call my work again this time and inform them i was a prostitute. He also got his current new partner to call my manager and try to inform him what a bad person i was, how I had destroyed the narc and she thought he needed to know.

    One of the final battles as when he held my whole office virtually hostage until the acting manager agreed over the phone to fire me. How did he do this? I worked in a call center and he bought 20 mobile phones and called the call center all at once playing the UK national anthem over and over whilst repeating his demands. I sat there surrounded by 40 silent people as we all downed tools and listened to the anthem over and over whilst he repeatedly asked them to fire me. In the end they told him they had (but they hadn’t). They called the police and because he was missing in action, nothing could be done.

    At that point I knew we were done here. I realized that the only winning move was not to play. I hated him thinking he had won but I knew I had no choice. I uploaded a mobile phone recording onto the internet of him crying pitifully and sobbing ‘you got me in a wrestlers death grip, you’ve resorted me down to this… I give up…I tap out). Of course it was a pity play but when his friends heard it he was a laughing stock again. My final slap. My last direct words to him were ‘You will never get to speak to me 1 on 1 again.’ And i meant it.

    I then went immediately no contact. Email addresses were deleted. Phone and mobile numbers changed. Neighbours warned, domestic violence team in place, I tried to erase all trace of me from the internet. I stayed away from the places he knew Id be. I told my male friends, they all were on standby and wanted to kill him. Life got better.

    I made new friends and started to socialize more. I left my job and started university and began a degree in human psychology. Of course he found all this out and was continuing to try and rile me or paint me black to mutual friends and his new source, but it just didn’t ‘hurt’ anymore. Now, this is not to say that i wasn’t injured. I had PTSD from what he did for some time, and a terrible fear of getting into a new relationship. In fact I was asked out by a lovely guy and had to go through the humiliation of telling him i couldn’t date him because i was too damaged from a nutcase and needed more time. He thought it was an excuse and that was that.

    In time, I dated my now husband who also knew of my ex and thought he was a weak spineless cretin and would tell him so whenever he got the chance. My husband is an alpha male ESTJ personality type. He is also Italian and very firey. He is also highly intelligent and his preferred weapon is to mock my ex. The worst it got was he said to my husband ‘How’s it feel to know how I taste?’ My husband laughed and replied ‘Shes probably had a shower since she got rid of you, but to answer your question, you taste fucking great mate.’ He exploded.

    Now after reading several of your articles over the past 3 nights and literally not being able to leave this site alone Ive come to realize so much more than I ever knew before. I came here looking for reverse learning in terms of continuing my silent war on my ex. I did not expect to learn that he is a greater narcissist and I am a super empath. I did not know these things existed.

    Ive always known I was different and not in a good way. I work in the psychology field and have had many accolades for my work and even been featured in the news. Ive been told by senior managers through psychometric testing that I score very highly on the empathy scale. This is reflected by mayers-briggs testing where I have consistently scored as an INFJ for over 15 years.

    But. ive also always known that I have a dark part of me. When i was young i didn’t know how to control it and it would bleed out into my behaviors. I could strike back harder than most when challenged, i wouldn’t allow anyone, especially men to bully me. I reacted disproportionately after perceived slights that damaged my ego. My super ego would punish me until i dealt with the person/thing/issue. I carry the scales of justice in my mind.

    I got older and slowly learned through peer socialization what was societably accepted – and what wasn’t. My trigger would usually be if i perceived that someone had treated me very unfairly (note the word very) or someone that I loved, badly. Then i would turn into the psychological incredible hulk to re-address the score. Up until my ex – I had won every single encounter I had ever had when in that state with someone. All were justified morally in my mind. I never ever, and to this day its the core of my moral code – I never ever use my …traits on someone that I am not absolutely sure doesnt deserve it. A bit like Dexter out of the show ‘Dexter.’ If I was a serial killer I would be him. I relate to Dexter and his moral code more than I relate to many things in the external world as my moral compass. Infact, it IS my moral compass.

    But with him it was different and I couldn’t understand why. No matter how I matched him, or how I upped the stakes and raised him one, he was like Michael Myers out of Halloween. He just wouldn’t lie down. A couple of times he appeared psychologically bruised himself and limping towards me to fight but he was STILL coming for me. Nothing worked – the game between us intensified, we both wanted to win at all costs. The problem was he had spent months syphoning information from me and I didn’t know barely anything deeper about him. He had no family that spoke to him, he had a daughter that didn’t live with him. We were in an all out war and I had a stick and he had a bomb. I was lucky to get that far. Looking back, I was fucking brave. Brave or stupid.

    How did this end? After the smoke had cleared and collateral damage was all around us? I cut him off for the final time and desperate for fuel he found a partner really quickly. Well several. And it got back to me that most of their communications related to talking about me, what a cow i was, how i had wrecked his life, and then he would encourage them to turn on me. Then he would talk about me some more. And laughably, when they were in devaluation mode, use me as weapon on them e.g. ;She as much more intelligent/beautiful/classy than you.’ I know because a few told me.

    Years have passed and up until 3 years ago he was still in my general social sphere but not close. Passing ships and all that. He was always involved with others and doing the same to them. I didnt care. I was married and he knew I wasnt available to him. His attempts to hoover were barely without a pulse. Sometimes he would say hi and try and open a ‘How are you?’ chat. Other times he would say ‘Oh look who it is, the c**t who took me for all my money (dont ask). Id gotten to the stage where I was getting better but was still very bitter. My attitude to his new partners was, If you saw what happened to me and you think you can do better, then you deserve whats coming. And one by one they lined up, sucked dry and got discarded.

    Finding your articles firstly about the dirty empath then the super empath has almost bought me to tears tonight. I didnt mean to write you an essay, but look whats just been churned out here in response to your insight. Your article danced our dance to the last beat of the orchestra. The ‘clash of the titan’s, the ‘one that got away’ the battle of all battles. You nailed it all and its floored me.

    Ive always had a dark side but i can put it in a box. I can keep it supressed and subdued and in its place. I am proud of this ability but both protect and hide that side of me. Does my husband know? No. But he has remarked many times, how can someone so empathetic as you suddenly be so cold and callous when you are hurt? I was truthful when I said i didnt know. Ive always felt like a freak.

    And im frightened of my dark side. Once its out, its truly out I dont know where I would stop. I dont know if i would assess the likelihood of a win and back off or if the red mist of injustice comes down and all hell breaks loose.

    Which is why, i am currently indulging in my dark side. Its not forever and its targeted to him and only him. I am slowly torturing him into believing his partner is cheating on him and various other things and he doesn’t have a clue i’m even around anymore. Any empathy (weakness) i have is for her – not him. There is nothing but vicious revenge in store for him and Im not even wary, im excited i just cannot get caught. She has to be viewed as collateral damage. I cannot afford to be responsible for her mental or physical welfare. Some readers if they get this far, will call me as bad as him or cold etc. I’ll take it. I know what I’m doing.

    Every war has casualties, doesn’t it?

    So GH Tudor if you have managed to read this far without turning into a skeleton ..congratulations, you made it to the end of my overall story. I am sure its one you have seen played out time and time and again. For the moment as i am locked and loaded psychologically I am in narcissistic mode and I am confident of screwing him into the floor and watching with glee as he struggles. When will i stop? When i feel he has suffered the same amount of hell as i did. Maybe i will never stop. Maybe i can use him as a play thing for when i need to dust off my own narc box.

    What do you think? I know you wont answer or will tell me not to but…hes got it coming.



    ps. thank you for letting me use your platform to ascertain my thoughts. If you feel I am spamming please let me know and I will stop.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You will need to organise a consultation to receive my input on this matter given the amount of information provided, there is a lot for me to convey to you and that goes outside of placing it in a blog comment.

    2. Kiki says:


      I mean this very kindly please girl you have to get your ET under control.
      Your emotional thinking is driving you to THINK you are acting out revenge but really you are still tied up by this man.
      Listen I empathise with your feelings, I get it I really do .
      I am currently discarded by a Narc , yes I’m a dirty little secret but it still hurts.
      I wanted revenge and technically could do it very easily, just a phone call away really.
      However even in my darkest moments I know exacting revenge is not the answer.
      It binds you tighter .
      If you exact revenge dig two graves , one being your own .
      That mantra is so true.
      This man sounds very childish and like a lesser to me , but of course I’m not HG .


      1. nicole says:

        This behaviour has been triggered by a particularly disturbing chain of attacks hes made on his new partner. A reader below has said Im not an empath – she is incorrect – these persons behaviours are so wicked and evil, that it has fired me up after a decade to do something about him. I wouldnt have thought twice if i hadnt been told about it and was so shocked. Triggered I think is the word.

        As i said in another post. I cant save her. Ive learned the hard way that triangulation, flying monkeys etc are his major weapons and he has used them on me time and time again when ive previously tried to warn his girlfriends. 4 attempts 0 successes. I’m not doing that anymore. When you have had 3 police forces, a domestic violence team and INTERPOL all involved, you tend not to want to go back there.

        I ultimately want to stop him now and hurt him. Whatever it takes in whatever way. He wont ever get close to me again but hes destroying others ..and i am no longer having it. I just cannot save her and therefore i have to dial my empathetic traits right down and winch the narcissitic traits right up in order to think like him and see the world through his eyes.

        And, you have to remember revenge only bites you tighter when both players are engaged. He doesnt know whats happening. He thinks hes going mad.

        Hes a greater narc, to outwit 3 police forces and get on a plane when his picture was being circulated at the airport? And to land and text me a smiley face when he knew he was back safe ? Its not fun being in bed with your 2 year old and thinking you can smell petrol downstairs..

        And now hes doing it to someone else and its going to stop.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          1. The only way to stop him is for him to be imprisoned.
          2. You cannot control a narcissist.
          3. You are providing fuel, you are suffering adverse consequences and if you are an empath, you are keeping your emotional thinking heightened. This means you are operating by flawed logic.

        2. Kiki says:

          I hear you Nicole I do .
          Yes he sounds insane but please step back a minute.
          The other women are NOT your responsibility, that does not make you a non empath .It means you have to have your own boundaries.
          I assume all these women can think for themselves and have to follow their own path .If that is to be mauled by a Narc , so be it , you have NO CONTROL of others only yourself.
          If that makes me sound like a Narc to other readers I don’t care.
          Think of your husband, family and let this piece of shit go.

          Karma will serve him the best dish of revenge


          1. Leigh says:

            Kiki, you don’t sound like a narc to me. You sound empathic. You sound reasonable. What this woman is saying doesn’t make sense to me. If she hasn’t been with this man for 12 years then why is she seeking revenge on him now and why is she lying and saying that his current partner is cheating on him? Why is she putting this woman in harms way? That’s not very empathic.

          2. Kiki says:

            Hi Leigh

            Thank you

            Yes it doesn’t make sense at all .


        3. BC30 says:

          “a particularly disturbing chain of attacks hes made on his new partner.” is how you perceive the actions. Consult with HG.

          I am also embarking on a revenge campaign– WITH HG’s guidance. I understand where you are coming from, but this takes logic and patience above all else.

    3. Leigh says:

      Nicole says,, “I am slowly torturing him into believing his partner is cheating on him and various other things and he doesn’t have a clue i’m even around anymore. Any empathy (weakness) i have is for her – not him. ”

      Nicole, you’re not showing his partner any empathy. You are making her the scapegoat of your manipulations. She’s the one who is going to be hurt by him because he thinks she’s cheating. If you were able to put yourself in her shoes (the definition of empathy), you wouldn’t have made her the scapegoat.

      Nicole says,, “She has to be viewed as collateral damage. I cannot afford to be responsible for her mental or physical welfare.”

      You are most definitely responsible for her welfare. You’re the one putting her mental and physical welfare in jeopardy. You just don’t want to be held accountable for your actions. Too bad! I’m holding you accountable.

      How dare you call yourself empathic.

      1. lickemtomorrow says:

        Yes, I’m struggling with this one, too. Glad to see your response, Leigh.

        I think we can all understand the desire for revenge and it sounds like between the two of you there has been plenty of revenge applied. I agree that to keep this thing ticking over is just another form of continuing to be ensnared by the narcissist. We do, of course, have HGs work on “Why Am I Behaving Like the Narcissist”. That is relevant here as we can all behave that way at times as our empathic traits are dialled down due to the narcissist’s manipulations. HG also talks about a Malice Obsession, and this sounds more like that to me. I’m not sure empaths can develop a malice obssession, but maybe they can. I was also reminded recently of the movie “War of the Roses”. In that movie neither of the individuals involved could find it in themselves to bring their ‘war’ to an end. It ended tragically from what I remember. There is something to be said for walking away at times. I’m not sure if I was involved in a happy marriage that I would still be seeking revenge on the narc as my successful marriage would be revenge enough on him. And I could only see it being damaging to my current relationship as that is what my focus should be on and not some loser I left behind. Not caring about a woman who is in the exact same circumstance you were, and who will no doubt get her comeuppance due to the narc you left behind, seems an odd way of dealing with the narc. If you were to convince her that he was cheating on her, but why convince him that she is cheating on him? Sure, that will undermine him, but either way it’s hurting her as well. And there apparently is no truth to the matter. It is manufactured, which makes it worse. The other concern would be if he has any propensity for violence. I don’t get it and find it disturbing in the extreme. The fact you were three years down the road of no contact. What gives?

      2. nicole says:

        No Im not. Thats exactly why im dirty. You see, ive done this time and time before. And you know what happened? They ended up being his flying monkeys. They didn’t believe me and he turned them into weapons. Serious weapons. Punishments included one of them calling my manager and trying to get me fired from my job.

        This is what Tudor is talking about when he says the other woman WONT believe you. Whats going to happen to her, is going to happen to her whether I do this or not. Ive tried your route any times and it ALWAYS backfires, just like Tudor says it was. He is a greater narc, almost sadistic and he gains pleasure out of it. And guess who he will then have back as fuel. The ‘one that got away’ which is me. Win win for him if I do it that way again. Not happening.

        Do you also think he wont accuse her of cheating anyway? What if i told you he had already uploaded then removed one of her private videos online and sent some mutual friends the link. He deleted it as soon as he got 1 view. 1 person saw it and she doesn’t know who.

        Ive tried all the tactics, played all the games. Tudor is right, nothing works. Her fate is fixed, just like mine was, with or without me. This is why I cannot save her. But by doing this what I can do is make her back off somehow like I did before he marries her or gets her pregnant. Hes going to do just what hes doing now, with or without me and you need to understand that before you judge me.

        Thats why I adopt the attitude I do. Emotional thinking makes you make mistakes with greaters. Every single time.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          “Tudor is right, nothing works” and yet you continue to try and make something work.

          1. Leigh says:

            Oh snap! This is why you’re fantastic. Mr. Tudor.

        2. Leigh says:

          Nicole, you aren’t helping her, you’re hurting her. If you can’t help, then please don’t hurt. Don’t you see how making up a story about her cheating on him is putting her in harms way?

          If you are so happily married, why are you thinking about relationship that ended 12 years ago?

        3. Julie Petkovska says:

          Dear Nicole

          Your story has more plot holes than Wonder Woman 1984.

          PS . The DCEU would like you to stop ripping off the joker and harley quinn.

          From a DCEU MCU fan.

      3. Leigh says:

        Thank you LET. I’m glad I’m not the only one who sees it. There are so many red flags. First the fact that she’s been out of this relationship for 12 years, no contact for 2 years and is now happily married, then why seek revenge now? And why use this new woman as a pawn? Why put her in danger? She’s hurting someone else to make herself feel better. I’ve been abused by narcissists my whole life and never have I ever wanted to hurt an innocent bystander to make myself feel better. Never.

        Here are some more red flags that really stood out to me:

        “I reacted disproportionately after perceived slights that damaged my ego.”

        “But he has remarked many times, how can someone so empathetic as you suddenly be so cold and callous when you are hurt?”

        Not only am I concerned for the ex-partner’s new girlfriend, I’m also concerned for Nicole’s husband.

        Mr. Tudor,
        I know you post these comments to teach us and I appreciate it. Thank you.

    4. Anm says:

      Can you do my ex next?

    5. Anm says:

      Also, I find your predicament interesting. I am glad you included how narcisissm affects different cultures and even uses it as a tool. I’m
      Irish-American. My ex is Italian-American. Congratulations on your marriage, but I can’t date Italians anymore because of Machismo. I am lucky that my culture is a bit more forgiving of smear campaigns, and my friends and family refuse to disown me.
      I am a fighter too, so I know it’s futile for me to tell you what to do.
      I will say this, these narcisisst, are willing to sink the ship they are in, during the fight. I feel embarrassed for my ex that he is so petty with his fighting. Nothing is logical for him. I fight the battles I have to for my daughter now, but I refuse to be on his playing field. I guess that is how I leverage my narcisisst side. By not fighting with him, at his level is me saying I am so much better than him. I am so much more intelligent than my ex, I know the law, I am well read, I know psychology, I know a lot. He is just a fool. Don’t even get me started.

      1. nicole says:

        Hey 🙂 Its funny, my husband is an alpha which would be too much for a lot of people – but he makes me feel safe. Hes know? Kind and fair. Two things that I never had before with you know who, Ive never been afraid of him, or worrying what hes up to if we have a cross word.

        My ex is also a fool – but a highly dangerous fool with a cruel brain that works well for him. I dont scare easily but i had PTSD from him.

        I havent thought about him in 2 years since i caught him trying to search me on facebook, and it was ten years before that. Unfortunately for me, this has been bought to my attention by someone who is worried about the ‘other woman’ as she is very young (narc is 44 shes early twenties) and hes just hammering her into the floor psychologically.

        1. Anm says:

          I understand. I will say this, unless this narc is a greater, the best time to take down a narc is when he around the age of 50. At 28, I unfortunately was an IPPS to a 49 year old upper mid range narc. At 31, I was IPPS to a 46 year old narc, whom I now have a child with. In both of these cases, 50 was the age they both started seeing karma kick them in the butt. The first one ran for a political position this last election. Everyone thought he was going to win, his signs were everywhere!!! Every block and every corner, his name was everywhere. Which made people constantly ask me about him. It was almost triggering, but I knew he would lose so I kept my cool. He didn’t just lose, he lost his election in a very embarrassing manner, that cause criminal investigations and public humiliation. At 44, this same narcissist was a very respected politician who was still terrible.
          Narc #2,also had a great career, was triumphant, sexy, etc. Same thing. When he turned 50, life started getting brutal for him. He is very prone to paranoia, insecurity, depression, etc.
          In other words, 44, the narc still has a strong fuel matrix to support your blows. If you wait a few years, at 50, the narc may be more vulnerable.

          1. Leigh says:

            Anm, this is very interesting. Two narcs that are currently in my life, hit 50 and it hit them like a ton of bricks. Very, very interesting. My husband, narc #1 is having major health issues and is really suffering from it. Whines, cries and complains about it incessantly. Narc #2, a close friend, is having serious financial & family issues. She’s in debt upto her eyeballs, her husband left her and took her children. She’s suffering as well.

            Unfortunately, the karma isn’t working because they don’t see it as karma. They don’t see it as they put bad in the universe and now they are getting what they deserved. They think God has forsaken them. How could God do this to them when they are such good people? They have no recognition of the bad things they have done. No recognition at all.

          2. Anm says:

            Leigh, you are correct, they don’t regret. We all experience karma.

          3. nikki joanne says:

            I saw this post after i responded to your first lol. This is so interesting to me, how the aging process affects our thought patterns and behaviour. I guess it would be much worse if he was a somatic narc and could see his looks fading.

            I wonder what that loss did to his ego? Did you ever observe anything? Im watching Trump’s handling of losing the election with a morbid fascination here. Its like the sparks left him. Id love your thoughts.

          4. HG Tudor says:

            Let’s clear up some misunderstandings before people start thinking there is some kind of “Best After Date” with regard to narcissists and the above comment contains incorrect and misleading observations.

            1. Karma is emotional thinking. Forget it.
            2. Narc number one lost an election. That will have wounded him. The loss of the election (I repeat election) has NOTHING to do with his age.
            3. Narc number two. His paranoia will always have been there. Again, his turning fifty does not suddenly make him vulnerable.
            4. A narcissist´s fuel matrix is invariably linked to their sub school, not their age. Yes, age can affect the interaction with those in the fuel matrix but be assured turning fifty will not make a material difference to the vast majority of narcissists. There are many narcissists aged over 50 who remain just as effective, dangerous and will cause you problems.
            5. You should never be waiting around “to take down a narcissist”. You should implement GOSO and get on with your life.

          5. Anm says:

            Of course GOSO is the way to go. I already stated this when I said not playing is the best approach. However, whom am I to judge her justification. Karma isn’t emotional thinking. What people think is their biggest enemy , is often their teacher in life, or it mirrors back to them what to be/not be. If I were in Nicole’s shoes, and was insistent on revenge, I stand by my stance on waiting is best.
            1. Knee jerk reactions for revenge usually back fire.
            2. If this was emotional thinking on her end , time and life may present other ways to revenge. Maybe she may change her mind, and decide the “best revenge is to live your best life approach”. You never know.
            3. If she is insistent on the type of revenge, she is thinking, I do believe waiting until a vulnerable to do so, is best.
            4. Like Don Corleone, the God Father says, “Revenge is best served old.”

          6. HG Tudor says:

            1. Karma is emotional thinking. It is not going to get you anywhere. No contact will.
            2. Knee jerk reactions will back fire, agreed.
            3. The phrase “live your best life” sets my teeth on edge. I know you are not the only one who has used this ANM, so that is not aimed at you!
            4. No, it is not to wait until the narcissist is vulnerable, how will she know? She remains engaged with the narcissist in trying to establish this which means a breach of no contact with all the consequential problems which arise from this.

          7. Anm says:

            Very true, HG

        2. Anm says:

          Nicole, I wrote a comment. Im not sure if it published or erased. If you are insistent, try to wait till narcissist is 50. 44 is a great time for a narcisisst. They have the fuel matrix to support them while you attack. At 50, they will be more vulnerable.

          1. nikki joanne says:

            Hey! I didnt see it , sorry!- thats so interesting you know, thanks for telling me ill have to read up on it further in terms of the aging process. Hes 46 at the moment. I knew him when he was in his 30’s and its funny you saying that, but he DID always have a thing about getting older and time in general. Im two years younger and that was something he would refer to in almost a wistful way. Thanks for the information im doing my own hoovering here but of the information kind !

          2. HG Tudor says:

            You would do well to read my response to that comment before you start allowing more misconceived ideas to impact on you.

          3. alexissmith2016 says:

            Anm and Nicole,

            yes please don’t be fooled by an ageing narc. A narc I know, ‘pantman’ late 40s often lets out bitter comments about ageing and how when he was younger he could sleep with whomever he chose. good god. I truly doubted it as I myself find him repulsive!

            He regularly comments how it’s so easy for women at any age to pull a man blah blah blah as if he is incredibly resentful of women and that men have to be rich and powerful and if they’re not then they don’t get the girl. Probably why he always spends way, way, way beyond his means. but also a bit of a pity play hoping that may make me feel sorry for him and sleep with him. ewwwwwwwy!

            From my perspective he kind of has some recognition that ageing does not help him, but I think it is only a flicker of recognition because he then continues to chase any bit of skirt/trousers he can. And I found out he slept with someone whom I would not have imagined at all would ever have succumbed to him, and it was her admission not him smearing either.

            Two other Ns I know both in their 60s, another just turned 40 and is less than appealing to the eyes, each have considerable financial muscle, two use that extensively and get exactly what they want from many, many women. One of the ageing ones could use it if he has to but his charm is incredible so it really only is used when needed. Plus I suspect he has a multitude of men and women and would be broke if he applied it to all of them. he also derives huge pleasure from tricking people into paying for things. One of them really hates ageing and became very angry when I once asked his age. but it does not impact on him in the slightest in terms of securing fuel but certainly something which could be used to wound. But as HG says, far better to focus on recovery. Sometimes it’s just nice to know we can wound if we want to.

            And because most Ns have victim like tendencies, even if they’re unable to carry on as before as the master of seduction, they will only change their tack to secure fuel in other ways.

            In truth none of us want to age and we all have different mechanisms of coping with it to maintain a state of equilibrium.

            By and large an N bounces back from most things and it’s really not worth putting any effort in to making things difficult for them because unless applied absolutely correctly it will likely fuel them anyway and you really are only harming yourself.

            Huge hugs and love – just keep the power within and don’t give them fooking anything!

          4. HG Tudor says:

            Well stated AS2016.

          5. alexissmith2016 says:

            Awww thank you HG. That really does means a lot to me.

          6. Anm says:

            I don’t regret getting older. I hope you don’t either. Empaths age like fine wine.

          7. alexissmith2016 says:

            I don’t regret it ANM, but if I could freeze myself as I am I would hahah but you do change, plan and adapt accordingly.

          8. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Getting older is a privilege. I prefer it to the other alternative.

      2. Witch says:

        If your ex is a narc, it’s unwise to base all Italian men on him.
        “Machismo” is an expectation that is prevalent in most cultures and that’s because most men are broke and I suppose machismo gives them a sense of power that they otherwise don’t have? but thankfully there are a lot of men who don’t adhere to it with the woman that they love.

        1. Anm says:

          Witch, to be perfectly clear, I don’t mean to put anyone down, and maybe I shouldn’t have mentioned it, it just what I am going through right now. In fact, I do have a very diverse amount of types of people I have as friends, and I do speak some Italian. I have just dealt with a lot of narcisissm , and my ex hides behind his culture and religion very well. So it’s not the nationality in particular, but the narcissism, and my ex using it as a tool. I’ll give you the most recent example. Most recently, I had three court hearings against my ex regarding my most recent order of protection against him. One of the allegations that we had to address in court, was the fact my ex keeps sending emails/text stating that “God is punishing” me, not the Narc, but “God”. In court, my ex’s defense was that he is Roman Catholic, and I have partially consented to this sadistic behavior knowing this before we had a child, and he honestly believes God is punishing me. In the USA, we also have freedom of speech, so the judge actually sided with him on that argument. Like really?!?! I don’t have any hatred towards Italian men, and I know my ex is extreme. I just can’t do this again, at least for now. In fact, I really haven’t dated anyone serious since my break up with the narc,so I have many more personal issue that I believe I need to work on before I consider something serious. I’m being frank here. Maschismo is very much apart of the USA as well. Don’t even get me started on it. It’s more of a systematic-patriarchal type of maschismo, so it’s more covert, but detrimental in a sense. I’m not happy about either scenerio, and gender inequality and domestic violence all makes me sick.

          1. WhoCares says:


            Aside from the topic of machismo…getting insights into your story tells me how horrible some of the judges you’ve dealt with are.

            “so the judge actually sided with him on that argument. Like really?!?!”

            The judge accepted his “freedom of speech” argument, allowing your ex to continue badgering you with statements such as “God is punishing you”.

            Like, wow.
            1. That’s not a custodial issue.
            2. That’s not even a child-focused matter.
            3. It’s abusive.

            Does he send you statements like this when he has your child in his care?

          2. Anm says:

            I wouldn’t say sided to the point that they approved his behavior. But they definitely excuse his behavior all the time. My situation is going to change. I have a plan a, b and C. Don’t worry.

          3. WhoCares says:

            It just really frustrates me when I hear stuff like that.
            “My situation is going to change. I have a plan a, b and C.”

            Good to hear!

          4. Anm says:

            The bottom line is, I need to move. My city is a good ole boys club. I’m planning it, but don’t wish to discuss it here quite yet.

          5. WhoCares says:

            If a move is in your future Anm, sounds like a very positive thing!

          6. Anm says:

            Yes, and yes it is. I eventually need to move for work. The city I live in, does not offer what I need to be successful in the way that I want. I’m past the point of worrying about the narcisisst finding my identity here. I don’t care about that anymore like I did in 2016. It’s pretty much public record at this point everything that has been going on between the narc and I. What I don’t want, is Mr. narc thinking he could use what I post here for court -which he can’t, but that an attorney will give him strategy to go against my own plans.

          7. Witch says:

            I appreciate that your comment was coming from a place of pain which I understand because I used to hate men based on my experiences with narcs which made me overly sensitive to anything a man said.
            Until I came here and discovered that narcs are instinctively drawn to empaths and that was the real enemy that I was up against

          8. Another Cat says:


            “and my ex hides behind his culture and religion very well.”

            Geez, this so typical of narcs. They spot an empath (you) from a different culture, different continent, or living in a different country, or a huge age difference.

            The target is not familiar with his environment and social network. Doesn’t have a clue whether his behaviour is appropriate for his original environment. Everything he does to the victim he can hastily ascribe to culture, age, profession, birth country.

            One other classic narc thing is that he is from the big city, looks for a girl in the countryside. Or vice versa.

            I really hope you and you child can find peace from him.

        2. WhoCares says:


          I am all for tolerance for cultural tendencies and differences – however, in my entanglement this tolerance and ‘desire to understand’ is what allowed me to give a context to my ex’s poor behaviour and allowed me to tell myself: “It’s just how he grew up” and “He cannot help it.”

          1. Witch says:


            I wasn’t implying that we can’t criticise other people’s cultures because there are shitty aspects of everyone’s culture.
            I said it’s unwise to have a particular perspective on Italian men based on the behaviour of a narc. In a lot of cultures there is an expectation for men to be dominant but men who are not narcs or narcissistic don’t behave that way with the women they love because their empathetic traits would keep them in check.
            I’ve had many victims of narcs say to me the problem is a cultural – “they are old school”
            When in fact the primary problem was that they were entangled with narcs, not the fact that the narc was Nigerian, Afghan, Bangladeshi etc

          2. WhoCares says:

            I have no interest in criticizing any one culture at all.
            “I said it’s unwise to have a particular perspective on Italian men based on the behaviour of a narc.”
            I recognize what you are saying and I agree that we shouldn’t make generalizations based on one bad experience – or stereotypes.
            It is even similar to saying that empathic men are boring – which is a statement that has been made before on the blog. That cannot be true for all empathic men.

            “I’ve had many victims of narcs say to me the problem is a cultural – “they are old school”
            When in fact the primary problem was that they were entangled with narcs, not the fact that the narc was Nigerian, Afghan, Bangladeshi etc”

            We are basically saying the same thing here.

            Maybe I need to explain myself more.
            I have never shared where my ex is from. But I will say that he is originally from Eastern Europe.
            In my personal life, when I shared with others about him, early in the relationship, I recall one comment in particular.
            “Men from that culture are bossy.”
            I generally ignore such statements BECAUSE I don’t buy into generalizations and my empathic, tolerant nature said to me “Just because he’s from that culture, doesn’t mean HE is bossy.”
            (I am not even sure I would classify him now as bossy, being a mid-range narcissist, but of course, I discovered later that he was controlling.)
            My point is that we can use cultural differences to make excuses and even generate explanations for our Narc’s behaviour. I certainly did just that.
            For example, when I discovered that he was a bit odd towards pets, I contrasted that with the fact he grew up in a place where animals lived on the farm and did not come indoors. His family didn’t do ‘pets.’ And that made sense in context of other cultures I know that are similar: animals stay outdoors, they are not ‘pets.’ (My pets never stayed outdoors, just so you know, ever – with or without the narc.
            When he got intense in discussions, I just thought he was passionate…and I related this back to my experience of highschool and my classmates who came from a similar background, and I thought: they are just a proud, passionate people, in general. When he got defensive and accusatory about certain things, I thought he was just being protective of his family, in a traditional, old school kind of way – and I kind of admired it and defended him to others. I thought the peculiarities about food were a cultural thing – now I recognize that they were about control and everpresence.
            I even got to the point where I started doing research trying to figure him out and rationalized that since his heritage came from a long-standing warrior culture that this must be in his genes and the source of some of his behaviours.

            It all was a cover, at least my emotional thinking believed it, until the cultural differences no longer justified his unconscionable behaviour.
            I don’t hold anything against people of his ethnicity – I better not, half my son’s heritage is his. I also had friends, one best friend in particular, of the same background in highschool.
            I don’t criticise men of my ex’s culture now as a result of my bad experience but my cultural tolerance helped to create a smokescreen that I blinded my own eyes with.

          3. Sweetest Perfection says:

            “I said it’s unwise to have a particular perspective on Italian men based on the behaviour of a narc.” Yes. Italian men that are chauvinistic are not any different than American men that are abusive and entitled, which is not uncommon. Stop generalizing and demonizing foreign cultures.

          4. NarcAngel says:

            Good point about tolerance and understanding being an entry point for their abuse – cultural or otherwise. My sister for instance explains away a lot of her partner’s unacceptable behaviour as having to do with him being an only child.

          5. WhoCares says:


            Hopefully, your sister will have a wake up moment once he has exhausted her tolerance for his poor behaviour. But I could see that working for a while because you and your siblings grew up in a big family and perhaps your sister has a lack of context for comparison. Maybe you could ask your sister how many ‘only children’ she has known to compare her partner to – and if they also have these same unacceptable behaviours.

          6. Witch says:

            Sorry whocares
            You’re right we are saying the same thing

          7. WhoCares says:

            No problem Witch, I enjoy these kinds of conversations with you.

            (Not ones where we mistakenly think we disagree with each other, lol – but I mean, the difficult subject matter because race and ethnicity can be touchy subjects and I appreciate that you can have an intelligent discussion on the subject.)

          8. Witch says:

            Just want to expand that I don’t believe that people should be expected to be PC to the point that they can’t criticise other people’s cultures as an outsider because I’m not heavy on identify politics.
            i do think normalisation of violence within small ethic groups whereby marriage and children is taking place mostly within the same group (marrying cousins and that) can create a concentration of narcs. Not that all will be narcs but there would be a higher percentage.

          9. Witch says:

            Thank you
            I can also be sensitive about these topics but a lot less now since I’ve learnt to control my emotions better

    6. MP says:

      Your life still revolves around him. That is not the way to live. You only have one life. Make that life about you and the people who love you and want the best for you.

      1. nicole says:

        No this is just the thing. It doesn’t. We have been split up 12 years – the first ten of those years I didn’t think about him once i was too busy getting a BA, then a Masters, then getting married and emigrating. Then there was a blip where he appears two years ago on my ‘people you may know list’ – so off i go again blocking everyone I dont know.

        Until a few months ago i didnt have a clue what he was up to or where he was. This isnt about me. I got away. He doesn’t even know i’m around, thats how long its been. But of course, hes still doing it and age and experience is making him worse.

        I could walk away right now and the outcome would still be the same for her now. Nothing can change that with her trust me. The only thing i know i’m not going to do, is get involved personally. I do not owe her my safety or my security and i wont risk it all for her. But if i can get her to see the real him before he traps her, then it will be all worthwhile..

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You are already personally involved.

        2. Truthseeker6157 says:


          You seem to know a great deal about the ins and outs of their relationship. More than could be ascertained from a distance, researching online etc. My concern therefore is that you have mutual acquaintances who are providing you with information. If this is the case, then your anonymity in this situation will be short lived. If your ex doesn’t already suspect you are back then it won’t be long before he does, assuming he is as well connected as you suggest. You have a whole new life and this involvement with an ex narc puts it all in jeopardy. If your husband doesn’t know what you are considering doing, you risk even more.

          My second concern is that you actually make it worse for the current IPPS not better. She is already in devaluation. She is already his target. Personally, I wouldn’t feel comfortable priming an already volatile individual to explode. You won’t be in the vicinity of the blast. She will be.

          I fully understand the sentiment and desire for revenge. In my mind you fight only the battles you can win and without any collateral damage to anyone else. Your risk is your risk to take but that isn’t the case here. Others stand to be impacted by your actions. That cannot be right Nicole.

          Be honest. Are you looking to protect this young IPPS? Or are you serving your own purpose here? Consider that question carefully because your answer should influence your approach.

          Either way, I would consult with HG. It takes a narc to sort a narc, at least it does from your current position. You are not the IPPS, therefore the real damage you can inflict is limited.

          1. nicole says:

            My other post will explain how I know all the information and how his has ended up in my lap and not be looking for it. I had no idea, ive not thought about him for two years since he searched me on fb.

            its been 12 years since we split and 10 since any contact. Do you know just how many victims hes been through since then? Lets put it like this – he cant be alone. Hes got LOTS of enemies, both male and female, ive already thought about all this. He spent 2 years repeatedly agitating me in public – and i never reacted once. Im the last person hes going to think it is.

            My husband and him have met in passing and know each other and do not get along. I havent told him as yet, because he will also get involved and I dont want that. My husband is a big italian fiery male – machismo is the word to describe him – and my husband knows what im like.

            How can things get any worse? Oh wait, he can fool her into letting him move in like me. Its not fun being held hostage in your bedroom for hours whilst he openly decides if hes going to smash your face in or smoke a joint. It cant get to that stage. The dye is cast. Arent all your narc experiences like mine? Why can noone see how evil this is?

            In terms of why i am doing it, below is another comment where i lay out what happened and the thought process – there is the answer. Its complex and I cant go into every facet of the situation and whats happened but it amazes me how people think im doing this for me (whatever that means) Id come to terms with the fact i was the one that got away and thats been the best result anyones ever had with him.

            But if she wont listen and people keep coming to me essentially saying ‘do something’ and i need to protect all of these different people – well i cant. There is only one of me here.

            What would you do?

          2. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Hi Nicole,

            Thank you for your response.

            The fact this guy is a narcissist is not in question. The fact that his current IPPS in devaluation is at risk from similar behaviours as those you experienced is not in question.

            Whilst your desire to help might be honourable, what is in question is to what extent can you help? When your ex finds out that you are involved what potential impact does that have on you and your husband? What potential damage does your involvement pose to the current IPPS despite good intentions?
            You state clearly that your ex suspecting infidelity is grounds for him doing real harm. Similarly part of your plan is to drive him mad by convincing him of infidelity on the part of the IPPS. This isn’t logical and it also places the IPPS about whom you express concern, in an extremely precarious position with an extremely volatile abuser.

            Why are mutual acquaintances turning to you and not the police if their concern is physical and psychological abuse?

            What would I do?

            I would consult with HG. I would explain the full story to my husband. I would recognise that I am in danger of making a bad situation immeasurably worse for the IPPS through my involvement. I would recognise that I cannot stop this man. Only police involvement can stop him. I would recognise my hatred for this individual and realise that part of my motivation for wanting to become involved is revenge, as well as a desire to prevent this individual harming others.

            What I wouldn’t recognise and would rely on others to tell me is that my Emotional Thinking has been consistently climbing as a direct result of this situation. As such I will not be thinking clearly and should consult with HG to bring this ET down and form a logical plan of action. You have the option to consult with a psychopathic narcissist in order to discuss the very best way to approach this situation with a clearly malignant and disordered individual. No brainer, I’d choose the narcissistic psychopath option, every time.

            This is not a criticism Nicole. This is an honest opinion from someone who is not involved and who is not suffering from high ET. If you get this wrong, it goes badly wrong. Choose the logical option.

          3. Truthseeker6157 says:


            Something else sprung to mind. Your first post implies that HG will remember you from previous interaction. I assumed on first read you had consulted with HG previously. This might have been a misinterpretation on my part.

            You refer to your ex as a Greater. Did HG confirm this was the case previously? Reason being is that your ex narc doesn’t sound like a Greater. He sounds more like an Upper Lesser. It will help you to know what school and cadre of narcissist you are dealing with. He appears to have little concern for the facade and a number of people seem to be aware of his abusive behaviours. I struggle to see how this would be the case if you were dealing with a Greater Narcissist. If you haven’t confirmed his school and cadre, it would be extremely useful to do so.

            Secondly, have you taken the Empath Detector Consultation? This will also help you to better understand your drivers, your strengths and weaknesses. Again, always good to have all pieces of the puzzle. Worth considering Nicole.

          4. Leigh says:

            I love your responses Truthseeker. You’re so eloquent and classy and I just come at her like a bull in a china shop.

          5. Truthseeker6157 says:


            Thank you for such kind words. If I am eloquent, it won’t last. Day two of home schooling, give me two weeks and my only utterance will be, “Wibble!”

        3. MommyPino says:


          This is not about her but about you. You made that clear when you referred to her as collateral damage.

          You need to ask yourself why you have the necessity to disrupt your own life in order to go in another battle with him again. The fact that he doesn’t know you’re involved doesn’t change the fact that you are still in a battle with someone who should have no meaning in your life anymore.

          1. Kiki says:

            Well said


          2. nikki joanne says:

            Because I cant stand the outcome of what I know will happen to this person because its been made very clear to me. People aren’t getting the situation here so i will write out my thought process and you can see how this came to be.

            1. After 12 years of pretty much no contact and no thought (moved on) I get contacted by someone who is in a distressed state telling me about a situation that involves, blackmail, character assassination, fear, and real life threats. Person is trapped and isolated. I tell person I cannot help and they leave upset. I am triggered by information and start to feel anxious.

            2. Agonize about said situation without doing anything for 2 weeks. Just thinking. Tell myself to ignore it but im worried. I know exactly what hes doing and whats to come. This is not a relationship where there were threats and domestic violence. Cant ignore it, start wondering what I can do to help her. Shove thoughts aside and move on.

            3. Keep remembering how frightened I was and how alone. Keep remembering how there was no way out for me and I thought he would just end up killing me at some point. Worry about her situation. ..

            4. Ask mutual friend if she is the sort of person to listen to reason (at one point against my better judgement and whilst fully engaging in emotional thinking) decide to risk it all and if shes receptive i will get in touch. Mutual friend tells me she is a co dependant, very young, early twenties, in awe and petrified of him and is breaking down. Will immediately tell him.

            5. Start to dream again. Worry that again he will find out ive tried to stop him and he will go for me. Try to forget it. End up ruminating about how frightened she is. Start nosing around in our social circle. Situation is worse than thought.

            6. Find this site. Find some interesting information – and realize just how dangerous he is/was.

            7. Analyze his behaviour patterns and realize there is another option other than to ‘do nothing’ which according to some on here also isn’t appropriate because i am supposedly responsible for her welfare. (which i am not and how DARE the person put that on me).

            8. Decide to disrupt from outside when reflecting on my own relationship with him. No one did that for me as no one knew him then in our circle, I bought him in. If i had seen what he was truly like before i got in deeper, id have never have got hurt the way i did and id have got out before he managed to install himself into my house.

            He WILL do all the things he is going to do, whether i’m involved or not. I know because he did it to me. Cheating accusations being a huge one to trigger further devaluations of a more sinister and PTSD inducing kind. I wonder if hes urinated in her mouth yet like he did me?

            TG Tudor explains to me in words which ive always known about myself – i can temporarily dial down my empathetic traits and ramp up my narc traits. But i cant sustain it for long. This is whats happening in here in fits and starts. Look at the tone of my post when i was dialling up…compared to now. Ive had a covid situation at home and i cant balance the two competing sides of me so im back to ‘normal’ for now as your true nature always bleeds through (As Tudor as said).

            Emotional thinking is a weakness when analysing situations like this ‘ the phrase collaterall damage is a further example of ‘dialling down’ empathy to focus without emotion on the dilemma without it being clouded. It was deliberately written to envoke that feeling.

            So you see? This ISN’T about me, id left. I was the only one thats ever gotten away on at least some kind of my own terms. Why would i risk it? I have nothing to gain but I want to fucking kill him for doing this to someone else. The rage is real, real enough to make me stand up again.

            If you want the truth, the real truth, i’m frightened hes going to kill her, if not physically, emotionally. According to one poster on here i’m responsible and i show no empathy…and then in this response I’m recieving the psychological message that I should leave it alone. No offence but as this post shows, you are both incorrect.

            So what to do? Whats the moral thing to do? When assessing situations like this i rely on ethics and morality as a ‘best outcome’ benchmark as I cannot rely on emotional thinking.

          3. lickemtomorrow says:

            Nicole, I’m trying to marry up the notion of you being afraid he is going to kill her with planting the idea in his mind that she is having an affair. I’m not sure how that is meant to help her situation, especially as you referred to her as being ‘collateral damage’ in terms of you getting revenge on him. You are posing two diametrically opposed positions – one in favour of helping her escape and one in favour of putting her in harms way. I can’t make sense of your intentions or your involvement.

          4. Leigh says:

            Has anyone else noticed that she keeps getting Mr. Tudor’s name wrong? She’s called him GH and TG. There are red flags flying everywhere!!! We really are fueling her quite well right now. At least, that’s my opinion.

          5. fox says:

            Nicole, I think a lot of people here have told you what to do, but you don’t want to hear it. And that is leave them alone, go no contact, and get back to your supposedly blissful life. Everything you say indicates this is very much about you and your desire to disrupt his life. If you are truly worried for his partner, you’d realize that your meddling in their affairs puts her in more danger than she would be if you left them alone. You aren’t responsible for what he may do to her on his own volition, but you ARE responsible if you are the one who triggers his actions. I would advocate that you utilise HG´s expertise and consult with him so that you understand exactly what is happening and what is driving your behaviour.

          6. Witch says:

            It sounds like the interaction with the mutual friend increased your emotional thinking…
            Unless your Narc is an A class celebrity who is popping up all over social media, you shouldn’t know anything about his new partners if you have really been maintaining no contact.
            And I agree with lickem that you’re contradicting yourself concerning how you view his new partner.
            So what ARE you trying to achieve by making him believe believe his partner is cheating on him? What is your goal? How are you hoping this will end?

          7. mommypino says:

            “Whats the moral thing to do? When assessing situations like this i rely on ethics and morality as a ‘best outcome’ benchmark as I cannot rely on emotional thinking.”

            Nicole, and yet your actions and choices regarding this have been based on emotional thinking and not morality or ethics. It is not moral or ethical to frame someone up for something that they didn’t do. We cannot play god on other people’s lives. You have no way of knowing that this woman is not secretly suicidal or that the gravity of his hatred for her from the incorrect information from you will never cause him to kill or harm her in a life changing way.

            You said that you believe that she is a Co-D and at the same time you think that your actions will save her by causing her to leave after experiencing extreme devaluations due to the lies you have created about her. Things do not happen just because we believe it should happen the way we think it should. Some Co-Ds never leave until they get killed or destroyed and the narcissist gets rid of them. Are you going to be there to pick her up and bring her back to pieces? If his fury gets ignited to the point of attempting to kill her will you be there to save her from that? These are ethical questions that you have to ask yourself. Aside from why you still need to be involved in his mess.

            If I feel a dire need to save someone I wouldn’t destroy their reputation even to a narc, I would probably send anonymous cards or little letters to the woman with little nuggets of wisdom on narcissism and even books etc. intermittently for a while hoping she will get some idea. If there is some information on something illegal or life threatening I might call the cops too and ask what they might be able to do.

          8. mommypino says:

            Thank you Kiki.

        4. Another Cat says:


          Congratz to a Nonnarc empathic husband. Those are not easy to find for us empaths. You did well.

          Now stop jeopardizing what you’ve got, through stress.

        5. NarcAngel says:

          This drama reads to me like an unconscious feeding of one’s own addiction, with Emotional Thinking leading the charge to have them believe they are actually rescuing someone else. Also, it’s doubtful to my mind that a Greater would be so obvious as to have that many 3rd party witnesses to their manipulations to have them so widely reported that they are drawn to the attention of someone so far in their past.

    7. Witch says:

      Not really sure how making the narc think their new partner is cheating on them is revenge? Sounds more like challenge fuel to me.
      Even if this narc discards new partner because of it, he will just move on to someone else and may even already have another woman in mind.
      Might as well just concentrate on your own life and try to be happy. We only have a short life on this planet, so is it really worth spending time plotting and planning against the narc if you’re not getting paid for it?
      The best revenge is living well and at least while you’re living well and your ET has decreased, you can post some of the evidence on social media for the narc to see. That can be your revenge.

    8. Sweetest Perfection says:

      Nicole, I totally understand every single feeling you have. I know you may find it frustrating that everyone is telling you to let it go. Revenge is sweet. It also is justified in the case of narcs. But it is not any truer that, after such a long time of NC, you are getting entangled again. Yes, you are. You are thinking of him. You are plotting against him. What he does is affecting you, and you are producing emotions around the thought of him. You can’t save every single person that gets in touch with him, you think you can stop a fire by just removing one log, but you should know by now his wife is not the only person in his matrix nor the only one he is hurting, including yourself at this moment. I am talking from a very similar experience. I also am a dirty empath (you are not a dirty empath because you are playing nasty, but because you get involved in infidelity with a narc). My “accident” is married and so am I. I know he has managed to subdue his wife to such an extreme that her picture should be used to illustrate the cover of HG’s Chained. I know at some point she will get the surprise of a jettison. I know she will suffer immensely. I own information at this moment to possibly ruin the life of my narc as he knows it until today. But I have learned a few things from HG: 1) Revenge involves breaking NC 2) breaking NC involves getting entangled 3) getting entangled involves raising my ET, for justice or whatever other excuse I can bring out 4) The narc will continue to be a narc. You will continue to keep thinking about him. Put yourself above his wife, him, and the idea of being the avenger. As they always say, the opposite of love is not hatred… be totally indifferent. That’s the only way you know you are over and above the narc. Anything else is addiction even if you think you’re working for a just cause. Do you remember that feeling of coldness when he removed his mask after lovebombing and started showing you glances of his putrid inner self? Cold, indifferent, robotic, inanimate, unemotional. Be that to him and his circumstances, and then you win.

      1. Sweetest Perfection says:

        Haha “it is not any truer” sounds like our beloved “I can care less”! Sorry I didn’t mean to contradict myself.

      2. Kiki says:


        Genuine question here ,

        How do you have contact with this narcs lover or wife or mistress or whoever this woman is we are talking about that the Narc is with .
        I’m totally confused now .

        I second other posters in that in my opinion this man is not a greater , Why would you label him a greater , I’m interested in this , it most likely doesn’t matter though he is still a Narc .


      3. BC30 says:

        SP,* Of course, some of the most loving and awesome people here are Co-Ds!! Please do not misconstrue me. No cadre is better or worse than any other. 💗 However…

        I am judgmental. I am biased. I see it. I am owning it. I am working through it. I am listening. I am observing Co-D friends here and absorbing.

        I initially commented that I didn’t know why I felt that way. I since have discovered that it is because Co-D coping skills and modes are foreign to me. So, IMHO, I am making progress. 💗

        I also recognize impact v. intent, so whatever my intent may have been in sharing my thoughts, I apologize for offense. 💗

        *I couldn’t directly reply to your comment. “Some of the most loving and awesome people here are Co-Ds. The fact we don’t want to be identified with traits that reveal us as dependent on a narc doesn’t mean that cadre is worse than the rest. The enemy is on the other side, not within us. Respect.”

        1. Sweetest Perfection says:

          BC30, I find C-Ds behavior very foreign to mine too, and to be honest I tended to criticize my narc’s wife for being such an enabler. But I have learned a lot more after that by interacting with many different commenters here. Two of the people I love a lot here are C-Ds, so I wanted to stand out for them because I know how valuable, caring, and brave they are. I wrote that comment because I honestly feel many empaths who discovered they were C-Ds feel ashamed because of the stigma we are constantly adhering to that particular type. It breaks my heart. Nobody here is a hero, we all were fooled and hurt by narcissists and our different natures made us get out of it in different ways, the ways we knew at the moment. Likewise, your comment/reply to me shows that you are self-reflective, humble, good-hearted, and I love conversing with you.

          1. Fool Me 1 Time says:

            This CoD thanks you for the kind words. Btw, I love you too!

          2. Sweetest Perfection says:


          3. BC30 says:

            “I wanted to stand out for them…”

            “[T]he Carrier Empath will assume the mantle of the problem themselves and tackle it head on. They are especially apt at standing in the shoes of somebody in order to absorb the blast on behalf of someone who is struggling or wants their help.”

            ❤️ much love, SP, much love.

          4. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Back at you! ❤️

    9. njfilly says:


      I have not been able to read all the comments in this thread related to your situation so it’s possible I have missed something.

      My observations based upon your first comment; you are not content. What you have is resentment not contentment.

      Contentment would never produce the negative energy you display, or a desire for revenge. Contentment would mean you would not want to make any changes, or create any difficulties in your existing life. You would not seek to “rock the boat” or make any waves. You would not want to risk what you already have.

      You are spending a lot of time trying to prove to us (or yourself, or your past narcissist) that you have a dark side, that you have formidable anger, that you can be cunning in your revenge. Why risk it? What are you really seeking or trying to achieve? Again, I have not read through all the comments yet, so maybe I missed something.

      My advice; leave this matter alone. There is noting to be gained here. Begin a new activity, sport, or hobby that has a level of danger to it. That might satisfy whatever urge is driving you, and enable you to prove, if only to yourself, that you are strong, powerful and are not afraid of life, or of this narcissist anymore.

      Respectfully submitted.

  5. Duchessbea says:

    Excellent article HG. I bet it is very rarely you have seen the Empathic Supernova.

  6. Asp Emp says:

    Goodnight HG. Thank you for moderating for so long…. it has been a good time….. actually, I should be saying ‘Good morning’ and I’d be making coffee, ah, sorry, it should be tea….. laughing….. (no, no cups & saucers in this house) LOL

  7. Asp Emp says:

    OMG. It’s 4.30 am….. (just after – LOL – for those “perfectionists”)…..

  8. Dina says:

    It seems to me, reading through the comments on this post and other posts about the “Supernova” of the SE, that there is a lot of confussion among empaths. I see many commentators associating the SN with “rage” or some type of open fight or violent cry. I identify with the process described but at least for me it has been very different: no rage at all, at least visible rage (on the contrary, more kindness, but a funny/condescendent kindness, with a smirk).

    The first narc trait I notice when I click and go into supernova (or if this isn’t supernova and supernova is that fight/rage most participants state, meganova then) and the narc traits come to light is devaluation, and this is what enables the supernova. I see the person as a coward, I think “He is not like me, this person is weak and doesn’t even exist, he doesn’t even have a personality, he is not my equal, and I need a strong and kind person to be with”, so my emotional bond with him weakens.

    Secondly, I don’t want to fight, I want to escape, and I mean to escape in the cleanest way, to avoid fallout and reduce the damage of the smear campaign/hoovers. I don’t want to ignite the rage of an insane person (that would be very stupid, and I am not stupid), and I don’t need revenge, I just want to continue with my life as soon as possible and heal… but many times this isn’t immediately possible. So the narc mechanisms that I have seen myself deploy in this supernova or meganova phase while I plan to escape are precisely the contrary of an open fight, abuse or rage, I become more passive-agressive, but with more kindness (and condescending) than ever (playing with words, everything subtle), as I stated, and this means: withholding information, gaslighting back (totally agreeing with him that abusive things never happened), silent treatments, word salads etc my goal is not to wound him (though he will be wound, most probably, at some point), it is to confuse him, confussion is at least for me the key of the Supernova mode, but being so subtle that the other person can’t point out nor recriminate, at least directly (he will try to punish, but again, the bond is weakened, so even triangulation does not really work, as we are not so jealous, and though it may hurt a little, we can control it; we in fact hope you to go back to your ex or promote an IPSS once we have figured things out, that would make things easier for us. Nonetheless, we can “act” jealous or sad, to keep the game going while we plan, because it is now a game nor a fight what is happening).

    Finally, depending on how he is (I suppose this is more suited for a midrange?) plan to turn the tables seizing the opportunity to agree with him when he critisises something about the relationship (which he will) and manipulate the conversation to openly interpret his words as rejection and break-up (Very sad face: “you’re right, I’m never going to make you happy, you need someone more suitable for you, someone more sensitive-backhanded insult-, but I really like you, maybe in the future we can be together again” etc- the last part prevents immediate hooovers, as it makes them believe I’ll be back soon and provides more time) then escape, as I had time enough to plan during his “kind devaluation”. Moreover, depending on the type of narc and the time you’ve been together, you might have some information he prefers to keep a secret (in one case, for example, having been IPSS crowned IPPS he wouldn’t want his ex, family etc the façade, to know he cheated with me as he may want to hoover her after I had left). And I also withhold closure if possible (they usually do this first, so I just go with the flow), trying to leave things open so he thinks I am coming back for an explanation and when he realises I was happy to escape it is too late, everything is prepared and I am in no contact.

    Having said this, I would like to add that I have a lot of experience because, although I pride myself on not being stupid, a little bit I am, as I seem to attract them again and again, and most fly under my radar as they feel familiar at first due to my long ninja training as a giver and resisting abuse as my parents are both narcs. I usually escape when golden period ends and I detect a personal boundary is being pushed- I ignore until then many red flags but when a strong boundary is pushed the alarm starts ringing and I see the big picture. Good thing is that I have experienced a lot of fake golden periods, so I have lots of gifts and presents, I have been invited to travel for free (one was an airline pilot) and I’ve saved a lot of money on dinners and drinks, I reckon when true love finds me I will feel it is too cold and ignore it.

    1. A Victor says:

      Dina, what you describe as your supernova experience is very similar to what happened when I escaped the narc from last summer. I did not consider it a supernova because I ended it, in the least confrontational yet most passive aggressively confrontational way I could figure and at the same time lighthearted so as not to cause a problem with a “crazy” person. I thought a supernova happened when one wanted to stay in the relationship, which I did not want. But, what you said makes good sense and if you’re correct, I’ve probably had a supernova and didn’t even know anything much about narcissism yet. Interesting. I had been picturing it as an angry thing but it wasn’t anger, it was more determination.

      1. leelasfuelstinks says:

        Similar here but in my case it was combined with rage and lashing out. After reading through H.G.´s material and gaining a lot of knowledge, I realized that I indeed started my romantic “career” as a shelf IPSS. At age 17, already shelf IPSS, lovely! (x) not. It was a totally chaotic on-off-relationship, he shelved me and hoovered me back about 5 times. Wrote me love letters (there was no internet back then), called me on the phone, was charming, romantic, we went out, then silent treatment, put-downs, blame shifting and triangulation.

        When I found out how terrible he was between the sheets (luckly, he was not my first man), so mechanic, so robotic, that was pretty much it. The same night he also wanted to coerce me into a threesome and that was 1.000times it! I told him how horrible he is in bed, grabbed my stuff, ran for the hills and never looked back.

        That´s more than 25 years ago and he still carries the “title” of THE VERY WORST OF THE WORST in bed! 😀 😉

        1. A Victor says:

          That’s funny, my ex was THE WORST too!! You described it well! And, I haven’t missed him in that regard AT ALL. I haven’t even dated since he left over 10 years ago but it was still no loss. It was hurtful while we were married to have rejection though, which he did better than the act. And, if it turns out he is a narcissist, I am almost 100% certain he will be a somatic. This has confused me because I thought they were so driven by sex and also so good at it. But…not him. I know there was sexual activity during the marriage that he was involved in that I was not though, so he was not feeling the absence/rejection like I was.

          1. leelasfuelstinks says:

            I had two somatics, one my “teenage love” more than 20 years ago and the second one more than 10 years ago. The first narc was THE WORST OF THE WORST and the second one was one of the BEST. Both somatic. 😀 Not all somatic and elite narcs are good in bed. Some learn it and are really good and others are just robotic, mechanical, cold as ice. During devaluation they can either just do what you don´t like in bed and totally degrade you or they can withhold. Whatever it is: They are SERIAL CHEATERS!

            They reject you and withhold any intimacy to obtain negative fuel from you. They know how it hurts you. So if it´s for them the better choice to withhold in order to achieve the prime aims then they will do so. It´s ALL about fuel/control, character traits and residual benefits. No matter what they do, but yes, somatics and elites can reject and withhold too if they see a lot of “nice” negative fuel in it and they can control you that way.

    2. Kiki says:

      Everyone is at a different stage tbh , feeling rage is ok , until it passes that’s why we are here to help our fellow empaths to work through the turmoil.
      We cannot judge another empaths reaction just give support.


    3. BC30 says:

      SE manifests for me as:

      1. Silent treatment stand off.
      2. Cheating.
      3. Implementation of No Contact. (I escaped inadvertently because NC is my natural tendency.)

      1. Truthseeker6157 says:


        Agree with you here. I don’t see the Supernova as an explosion of rage, maybe internally. I see it more as a cut off, a drawing in of emotion, pulling up the shutters and sending out nothing. I see it as a tipping point where the empath decides that it’s over and until she has the opportunity to leave the household she draws in all of her emotional content, deadens it and where provoked offers a continual unspoken criticism and an uncompromising rejection. I don’t see fiery tempers and explosions of anger, more, a determined drawing in of everything we usually display. Cold, calculated, dismissive.

    4. Sweetest Perfection says:

      Dina, I have read your comment: “I see the person as a coward, I think “He is not like me, this person is weak and doesn’t even exist, he doesn’t even have a personality, he is not my equal, and I need a strong and kind person to be with”, so my emotional bond with him weakens.
      Secondly, I don’t want to fight, I want to escape”. This is exactly how I escaped and how I felt. I didn’t see any reason to pursue him any further or to fight him. I felt total repulsion for him and an immediate urge to detach. However, I don’t think I have the supernova power. But I don’t care, because it worked for me.

    5. doforluv1 says:

      @Dina you described this so well , I do recognize a few things from my early 20s when I was in my first romantic relationship and he was a narc . But now I really dont have a clue what a ESN would feel like or how I would act like . so TY much for sharing your story with us

  9. Asp Emp says:

    The following is my personal experience – how I felt and what happened.

    “What is the Empathic Supernova?” – the result of a narcissist’s narcissist having reached a big FK U rage – an empath’s narcissistic traits finally reaching plutonic point where there is a point of no return. Nothing, absolutely nothing can stop the magma from escaping and erupting – not even the Victim MRN himself could actually do anything to stop the supanova. In fact, my one responded by hiding – he would have needed several nappies had he actually been present during my supanova. He was coming back with the usual pity-play BS – which made me even more angry, during my rage. Ah, he pushed me even more. FFS.

    Thank you so very much HG for this full and detailed explanation. Because of this, I have been able to determine what I am on the empathic / narcissistic spectrum and where I can go from time to time (I’m sniggering as I’m typing this). Like many of your articles, I find them really insightful & useful as future reference. This one, however, has made me see what I am. Yeah, feel really much better now….. your’e a star for writing this one HG.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are welcome.

    2. BC30 says:

      Asp Emp have you had the ED and/or TD?

      1. Asp Emp says:

        I’ve had neither, as yet…….

        1. BC30 says:

          You must! It truly opened my eyes, and now I know where I need to fortify my defenses.

          1. Asp Emp says:

            Oh, I plan to…..

  10. Eternity says:

    I am curious to see what category I fit in HG. I need to do a Empath Detector. Hopefully it can help me in the future

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Do not delay, book today!

      1. Eternity says:

        I like the way that rhymes.

  11. Ben says:

    This is such an eye opener… This supernova is exactly how I behaved with him towards the end, so much that he blocked me. I used to keep wondering if I’m narcissistic and if I’m actually the narcissist. But this puts so much in perspective now.

  12. December Infinity says:

    I am not sure what type of empath I am. I think I will have to read more about empaths to determine this. Interesting article.

      1. December Infinity says:

        Thank you. I will look at this.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Jolly good.

  13. leelasfuelstinks says:

    Full blown Super Carrier here, ready to kick ass! My fuel stinks, dear Narcs. 😛 😉

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Since you are providing fuel, it will not stink. Name change required.

      1. leelasfuelstinks says:

        No way, haha! 😛 😀

    2. BC30 says:

      Your school is Super?

      Mine is Standard with strong minority Super.

      1. leelasfuelstinks says:

        Yes, my school is Super. Cadre Carrier with significant Geyser and Savior minority traits 🙂

        1. BC30 says:

          I’m a total hybrid and the only school I am missing is Co-D.

          My favorite empath of all time is a Carrier.

          1. leelasfuelstinks says:

            THANK YOU! 😉 😀

            I´m missing co-D, missing Contagion, I´m just Super with some little Standard. I´m missing a lot of stuff, I´m just Super Carrier 😀 but high in narcissistic traits 😉

          2. BC30 says:

            High in N traits. Is that why your fuel stinks? LOL How high? If you don’t mind sharing. I find it fascinating to interact with everyone with their detector results in mind.

            I’m certainly a match for my assessment results.

          3. leelasfuelstinks says:

            EXACTLY that is why my fuel stinks 😉

            Well, 50 % of my personality is narcy 😉 But kept in check by my super-empathic traits of course 🙂

          4. BC30 says:

            I’m a wee bit more narcy, but even-keeled except for my outbursts of rage 😡 and tendencies for hidden revenge. 😏

          5. leelasfuelstinks says:

            Aw yes! Nothing against a good rage outburst or as mentioned in my other post, some nice passive-aggressive ice-cold “fury” 😉

          6. leelasfuelstinks says:

            I can manipulate too, I can blame shift, I can gaslight, triangulate, bring up the past, sit and sulk in silence, roll out Pity Plays, I can mirror, I can intimidate, I can lash out like crazy, I also used Threatened Loss…. but this is not done for fuel and control but for SELF-DEFENSE AND SELF-DEFENSE ONLY!!!!

            Normally I´m very loving and caring. I care about the sick, the weak, the old, the very young, I like animals and love nature. 😀

          7. BC30 says:

            I rarely did those things. I work best behind the scenes or in a blaze of glory.

            I was an IPSS but behind the scenes, I”cheated” on the Ns when they angered and hurt me. They thought I was faithful, but I knew better. It’s a warped kind of revenge.

            I’m not proud of it, but I am capable of hitting someone, usually it’s because I won’t be ignored. Alternatively, if the person has done something I consider beyond the pale. If you tell me you slept with my sister I’m liable to punch you in the face. It’s a sudden burst of rage. It frightened the MMR.

            The reason I unknowingly went No Contact and escaped is because I end my relationships in a blaze of glory. This ensures that I WIN. They come home to find my clothes gone without notice. I cut them off all my social media and block them. They don’t need to know where I am or where I’ve gone.

          8. leelasfuelstinks says:

            I perfectly hear you, I can feel your pain, I can feel your rage in that moments you describe! I can´t even describe what happens to me, it´s like a knee-jerk reaction. Everything gets dark and foggy, I forget everything around me, I just feel something boiling inside me because injustice has been committed, because I got hurt. I´m in pain, I just feel something boiling and there must be revenge!!! My narcy-traits suddenly kick in within microseconds and I can observe myself lashing out!

          9. Leigh says:

            I have to chime in here BC30. I always felt like we were very similar by the comments you make. I’m standard empath with a strong minority super & triple hybrid carrier, geyser, savior cadre. As for my narcissistic traits, pride & infidelity are big ones. Ain’t that the truth! I’m just curious, what are your cadres?

          10. BC30 says:

            I totally see that. Defiance and pride are the biggest, infidelity not far behind.

            Geyser – strong minority
            Magnet – significant minority
            Savior – significant minority
            Carrier – insignificant minority
            Martyr – insignificant minority

          11. leelasfuelstinks says:

            Same here: defiance and pride and then vanity!

            I seem to be the most “boring” Empath here 😀 😀 – no hybrid-mix-max, just very clearly Super Carrier 😀 😀 😀 Boring lol 😀

          12. BC30 says:

            I’m starting to worry I’m the weirdo and feeling a bit like confetti. 😃

          13. leelasfuelstinks says:

            Naaah! That´s perfectly fine and very interesting! 🙂

          14. BC30 says:

            Thanks HG ☺️

          15. Alexissmith2016 says:

            It’s interesting listening to everyone’s results. I’m SE magnet. Ive only done the empath detector, not trait detector but I don’t imagine I have any CD at all. A bit of contagion. I have some carrier, but only for short bursts, there’s no longevity in it. I wish there was. Minimal geyser if any, I very rarely cry. Definitely have some saviour.

            And yup very strong narcy traits but I will really help others a lot, Ns need not apply. I cannot believe I used to help them pre knowledge?!

          16. BC30 says:

            I totally see your SE, and as far as helping goes— you didn’t know then, too bad for them that you do now.

          17. A Victor says:

            Hi Alexssmith2016, just curious, does SE mean Standard or Super? And you’re highest in Magnet? How does that manifest? What kind of narcs prefer you? Okay, and I’d love to know if you’re more extroverted or introverted. Sorry for all the questions, sometimes as I’m learning more I have more, no problem if you’d rather not share, I just find people’s fascinating and amazing.

          18. A Victor says:

            Oops, hit send by accident trying to fix the last sentence. I find variety of different people fascinating and amazing, were all so unique and yet in some ways also similar.

          19. Leigh says:

            BC30 says, “I was an IPSS but behind the scenes, I”cheated” on the Ns when they angered and hurt me. They thought I was faithful, but I knew better. It’s a warped kind of revenge.”

            This is why I say we are so much alike. Every time my husband tells me how perfect he is as a husband, I think really, is that why I’ve cheated. I guess its my own kind of thought fuel. Knowimg that I’m getting over on him, yet he thinks he’s perfect.

            I’m a perfect hybrid of carrier, geyser & savior. My top empathetic trait is caring.

          20. BC30 says:

            Caring is a tie with Truthseeker for top place. Two peas in a pod!

          21. leelasfuelstinks says:

            Mine are truthseeker, justice and caring.

          22. Leigh says:

            AS2016, its definitely worth doing the Trait Detector. It tells you exactly which of your traits are strongest.

          23. A Victor says:

            My narcissist traits come out due to frustration, anger, sadness etc, not because of a need for fuel. Sometimes those emotions arise from feeling a lack of control and a sort of panic sets in, but it is short lived, the sense of control comes back and we move on. Little things don’t worry this sense of control. This, I take it, is what makes us different from the narcissist. Also, I prefer not to live that way all the time, as little as possible in fact, another difference. But I don’t think for them it’s a choice? Would they want to stop if it was? Okay, not getting back into the question of their ability/desire to change themselves, or see the need to change their behaviors. Just thinking out loud again, trying to sort stuff out.

          24. Asp Emp says:

            Sometimes, an empath can become the narcissist’s narcissist – hence the narcissist traits coming to the fore. I am a perfect example and living proof of that happening….. the Empath’s Supanova? Ah, bless….. the best orgasm I ever had….. (to date)

          25. leelasfuelstinks says:

            For me it doesn´t feel like an orgasm, first I fell burning pain, then burning rage, then I completely shut down, the person I am shuts down! Then I feel defiance, pride and power!! Then comes the LASH OUT! And I feel powerful and proud! I am proud that I have landed a BIG BLOCK BACK! I feel great about myself!

          26. Asp Emp says:

            Oh, woah! I was using it as an expression of speech….. it felt so good to release all that rage after building up over a period of time

          27. A Victor says:

            Leigh, we are very similar also with only some minor differences in percentages and my highest narcissistic traits are pride and vanity instead of infidelity.

          28. A Victor says:

            BC30 what is it you like about the Carrier? Just curious. I don’t think I have a favorite in either the schools or the cadres. I don’t know a lot about them yet.

          29. BC30 says:

            I don’t have a favorite cadre or school. It just so happens that Keanu Reeves is my favorite empath and he is a Carrier. Textbook Carrier.

            However, I do have a wee bit of disdain for Co-D. Not sure why.

          30. leelasfuelstinks says:

            Carrier empaths are lovely, pretty, awesome, sexy, powerful, great … the creme de la creme 😀 😀 😉
            #goofingaround 😉 😀

          31. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Leela, crème de la crème, I agree. Carrier here, represent!

          32. leelasfuelstinks says:

            Yaaaay! 🙂

          33. A Victor says:

            Oh no Asp Emp, you are once again way over my head…hahaha!!

          34. Asp Emp says:


          35. A Victor says:

            My top empathic trait is truthseeker, compassion is second but didn’t rate high enough to merit conversation, the rest were all something below that one.

          36. lickemtomorrow says:

            Ha, BC30, I had some disdain for co-d’s until I found out I was one!

            I told HG I was disappointed to discover I was co-dependent. That made me weak. And it’s the last thing I wanted to be. Now I embrace it because it helps me to counter the narcissist by understanding that’s what I am. And I can see it was one of two choices I had – either becoming a narc or a co-dependent. It’s a relief in that sense and I can see how we are two perfect sides of the same coin. It’s no wonder the attraction is there and addiction exists. Just another piece of the puzzle to help make sense of it all.

          37. Leigh says:

            BC30, I’m high on truthseeker and justice also, although caring was at the top.

            Leelasfuelstinks, I think you’re a hoot and you aren’t boring at all. Lol! I’m all over the place and feel like a mutt, lol!

            A Victor, Its not really fuel because I don’t need an emotional reaction from someone to make myself feel better. Not like the narcissist. Its just that I’ve been married for 35 years to someone who thinks they are perfect and makes me feel inadequate. He thinks he’s God’s gift to women. Well if he’s God’s gift to women, why I am looking elsewhere? He thinks he’s so wonderful that I would never cheat on him. It just feels good to get over on him. Now I’m probably going to be struck down by lightning for saying that out loud.

          38. doforluv1 says:

            @lickemtomorrow I felt the same way about my results , Im so proud of you how you switched the “negative ” into the ”positive ” . I must say my Co-d score was just 56% I scored on all the empaths schools but co-d obviously majority . carrier magnet and saviour cadre . Co-d doesn’t mean weak . I actually believe we are pretty strong .much luv and light to you

          39. A Victor says:

            Hi doforluv1, you have a Stepford Wives combo! Did you find you were devalued in that way? Only curious because that was used on me in many ways but I’m not the type of empath that can best endure it. I was in the mode of it prior to meeting him though so he had a head start. I believe CoD’s are strong too!

          40. lickemtomorrow says:

            Hey doforluv1, thanks for your kind thoughts and sharing <3

            I am majority Co-dependent (54%) and minority Superempath (32%), the rest being Standard. So the Co-dependent element wins out in that regard. I also share Magnet and Saviour cadres with you 🙂

            It was the 'dependent' element of Co-dependent that made me think I was weak. I always saw myself as being very independent, and have operated that way for the most part. I see that as a strength. So being dependent in that sense wasn't on my radar. It is now. It explains so much in terms of my relationships and how they have played out, including how I coped growing up in a LOCE environment with a narcissistic parent/s. I wouldn't have been able to embrace any of this understanding without HGs help and his expertise. And we don't always like what he has to say as it can be confrontational. But, I come here for the truth. It's the only way to move forward and out of the confusion the narcissist has created.

            Sending light and love in return <3

          41. A Victor says:

            LET, I didn’t realize you had Magnet! How does that play out with your schools? This is so interesting, how we’re all put together so uniquely! I’m so curious too how CoD and Super mesh since they seem like they’re at opposite ends of the spectrum. I am very independent too, I didn’t have a choice in my marriage, there was zero support. My last midwife told me to consider how my then husband could support me during delivery, that was an alien concept to me, really a wake up call, I literally could not come up with one thing! Then after he’d left, my oldest asked why he hadn’t been with us at the police station, a few years prior, when we’d reported that her sister had been molested, another wake up call. And when these things were happening I never even questioned it. He had me very trained to accept a lot without relying on him at all. It makes me sick now. I love your comment, the truth is setting us free!

          42. doforluv1 says:


            Such a interesting result you’ve got !. I agree with you wholeheartedly . I do believe you are very independent and been independent in your actions . the tricky part may be for us that we are dependent on confirmation . The environment we grew up in absolutely didn’t give us any other chance .I’ve noticed you’ve read chainend and with your tests results and the way you describe yourself the awareness I can see nothing but a strong stable empathic person ! who is in aligenment with own desires in the near future . Just know im rooting for you thank you much for sharing this .

            The truth will set us free .

          43. lickemtomorrow says:

            <3 doforluv1.

            I agree that our environments shaped us in ways where we felt we had no other choice. We become submissive to the narcissist/s as that is our method of survival. And it somehow becomes ingrained. Then we are left in large part not knowing ourselves. So I think we continue to look to others to tell us who we are, or for confirmation as you say. I've expressed that idea here before as needing to be the narcissist's slave to know that I exist. In that sense the narcissist and co-dependents are slaves to eachother. The narcissist needs us/our fuel for their existence as much as we need them to confirm us in ours.

            I have read Chained and that was a real eye opener for me. I got very emotional over it, too. Probably because it was very close to some of my experiences.

            Thank you so much for you lovely words again. I am definitely trying to become more aligned after absorbing all the knowledge HG continues to share. I think that's what we're all hoping to do and I hope the same for you x

            It's always so encouraging to know someone is rooting for you and thank you for your support. It means a lot to me and I will be rooting for you, too 🙂 I sense you have a very courageous and loving spirit <3

            "The truth will set you free"

            And then you shall be free indeed x

          44. A Victor says:

            Hi again LET, just finding all these great comments! I’m wondering if the CoD looks for outside validation/confirmation, and the Standard can find it from within, if this is one difference that distinguishes them. I never cared what others thought about me, it was from within, and my faith system, where I found my valuation throughout my marriage. Probably something to do with Savior there also. And pride, which I’m high in. I didn’t share, no one needed to know anything, and my own valuation was distorted. Now, if I’m ever in another relationship, I will be sharing, that’s what saved me from the summer narc and woke me up to my own insufficient reasoning. Your words about submission and the ingraining and how we’re left not knowing ourselves, even though I didn’t realize this part until the summer narc, ring so true, so sad. Thank you again for sharing, your story is so helpful to me!

          45. A Victor says:

            Validation**, not valuation, dumb autocorrect.

        2. doforluv1 says:

          dear @A Victor at first I want to apologize for just now seeing your comments. I Feel so sad about it. Just know I wasn’t aware off it. When Im focussing on my businesses I don’t go on the internet if its not work related.

          About your question and Steford Wife Combo.In my first romantic relationship it didn’t occur because he was a LMR victim narc my devaluation was actually horrific . In that relationship My Co-d carrier and saviour traits were exploited for the most part we’ve been together for 6 years but my Super-Empath traits and Super-Nova made a end to that romantic relationship now we only share two sons. But the last one was very much LUN Type A and Somatic so yes that was the Steford Wife Devaluation. The disengagement came shortly after I learned to sense my own wants and needs do’ s and don’ts etc in therapy . At that day I realised he was a Narc this is 4 months ago eventough I’ve been following HG’s work for quite some time now that shows how difficult that type of engagements are.

          I understand exactly what you mean about him having a head start so relatable . I hope you doing well now ?

          so much ligt and love to you !

          1. A Victor says:

            doforluv1, no problem, I don’t stress about such things. You are wise to focus on your business, I need to do more of that but this blog, this learning, is also a priority for me right now. Things will ease up here I think, after a while.

            Thank you for your experiences with your narcissists, it is so helpful for my understanding to hear different people’s stories. And you’re only out of it 4 months! That is about how long for me as well, he was also an ULA Somatic! But, I only ever knew him online and only for 3 months. He is the reason I am here though and it has been a good thing.

            My ex has been gone for 10 years, he is a MMRA Somatic. I had put him out of my mind, into history, but being here is helping me to really resolve some of the things that happened and hopefully, through doing so, they won’t be repeated. Some days are better than others.

            Light and love back!

  14. thathealingheart says:

    We would fight epic battles, HG.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      No, you would not.

      1. leelasfuelstinks says:

        Okay, then I fight 😉 😛 😛 😛 😀

    2. leelasfuelstinks says:

      I can fight a Mid Ranger easily! Have never met a Greater.

      And H.G.? Urm. Guess I RUN! 😀

  15. Empath007 says:

    This one is always interesting. I’d still put myself in the co dependant category. But I don’t put up with narcissists for very long (never have) and I’ve alwahs escaped, not been disengaged from. And only had 2 romantic encounters with them so far in my life. So I’ve gotten lucky I guess. I was
    Only with my narc for a year but dear god… it affected me like nothing else ever has.

    When you say “striking blow after blow”
    What would that mean ?

    For example. One night I’m cooking and the narc is watching over my shoulder criticizing. He made a comment on how I would ruin his pots or something by how i rinsed them. So I responded by saying “ perhaps, I do it all the time with mine… however mine are much higher quality”. I wasn’t saying that to be rude per say… it was just a fact. But is that a “blow” or is it different then that ?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      That is a Challenge Fuel.

    2. Eternity says:

      Empath 007, they sometimes dont have anything nice to say. I would have told him you can do the dishes yourself. Use cold water and cool yourself off.

  16. blackcoffee30 says:

    I’m only secondary Super, wish I’d been a bit more.

    1. A Victor says:

      Same. It’s enough. 🙂

      1. BC30 says:

        A Victor, Is that your only school?

        I have representation of all schools and cadres, except co-dependent. I’m feisty, but it’s usually explosive because I’m majority geyser.

        1. A Victor says:

          Hi BC30, I was writing something to you up above but it got lost. I am Standard with a very strong Super minority. And strong Savior, significant Carrier and insignificant Geyser. That is it.

          The Standard and Super in said quantities are very fitting, I can clearly see those.

          I can always tell when my Geyser comes out, it is second/third nature for sure, haha. I am sometimes embarrassed by this after, depending on who sees it, as it isn’t common for it to show and I’m an introvert. Typically only my close family sees it. The summer narc always got annoyed when he saw it. That annoyed me, haha!

          I have been finding these categories fit better than I would’ve originally thought, though still not so sure on that Savior one. It is likely the reason I struggle so much with “hope”.

          The Carrier was a surprise, though looking back on my marriage I can see it.

          Not having any Magnet was a surprise because people are always trying to befriend me but not a surprise in that I don’t usually want to befriend most people, lol. Lacking it also dropped my desirability to several schools of narcissists so, in that regard it’s a good thing. I need to find another empath or a normal someday, there are really not any good fits with narcs, hahaha! Either I’m too fiesty for them to handle or I don’t have what they’re looking for! This makes me giggle, I’m a useless empath!

          Now I am watching for information about the traits, how they are corrupted, what that looks like etc so I can guard against that happening more effectively.

          Also, I have moderate empathic traits and low to moderate narcissistic traits and have questions about that as well. Can a person have high empath and slightly lower narcissist traits and still be any school/cadre combo? Or does my moderate/low moderate correlate at all with the schools/cadres I’m in? Also, are some of the traits more common in some of the schools/cadres or is it really anyone’s guess to any individual? I have been so happy to see more coming out about these things recently, though not having been here long it may be returning to things I missed. But either way, I think having as good or better an understanding of myself as I do of how the narcissist works will be a big part of future safety. It is all quite fascinating.

          1. BC30 says:

            A Victor,

            Oh my. I am a Geyser and can’t go a day without crying, but wish I could. 50%ish narcy. I am an extrovert’s extrovert. I can tell from your comments you’re more introverted.

            I have questions like you and hope/wish that HG will write a book with more details about the ED/TDs. I’m a little bit of every cadre and wonder how common that is. I would guess some traits are more common in some of the schools/cadres or they manifest differently. I didn’t think I was a magnet, but I am persuasive. I am definitely learning how to guard myself better, and now I know I’m considered a trophy to the UL and UMR.

          2. A Victor says:

            Hi BC30, what is it that draws those two schools to you the most? Just came back to this and now that more things are making sense this question popped into my mind.

        2. A Victor says:

          BC30, I very seldom cry typically, and never ever in front of anyone. If my kids see it, which has been rare, they do get very worried.

          I always think of the Geyser as the animated life of the party type. So when I get animated even in a conversation, it is unusual and can surprise both myself and the listener if they don’t know me well.

          I did have “dramatic” outbursts when I was married, usually tied to hormones more than anything else. Those were never pleasant for anyone, my poor husband! The guilt from that and the handholding were two big factors in me working so hard to keep that marriage together. Never again. I now can see so much more objectively the imbalance in the give and take. And I wonder if the balance had been better if the hormones would have been such a big issue. Moot point now.

          Thanks for sharing your empath breakdown, very interesting.

          1. BC30 says:

            I wear my heart on my sleeve. When I’m happy I’m brimming with it, talking with my hands, laughing or squealing, and can’t stop smiling. I’m so glad to get to know you a bit more!

          2. A Victor says:


          3. Whitney says:

            Hey A Victor I just read more about your magnificent empath detector result! I asked about it on the “Saviour Empath” article,
            disregard that! Now I know.
            I’m curious, which types of Narcs would be drawn to you according to your empath detector?
            I’m Geyser (apparently), and I’m introverted. My emotions are deep and internal. I’m not very expressive

          4. A Victor says:

            Hi Whitney, I finally found this comment. Wow, I’m really surprised that you’re not expressive, it’s so interesting how we can perceive a person differently online to how they actually are. But I always think CoD’s are more introverted, another perception of course and likely not correct. I also think Supers are extroverted and even though I have a lot of that, I am not! These conversations are so valuable for tossing out misconceptions. I think if I didn’t have the Savior element the narcs attached to me would be the UL’s. But because of the Savior I appeal more to the MMRer’s. I think the Lessers see no need of a Savior, haha! Based on the summer narc, it makes sense! He would’ve liked me more if my Carrier was stronger, thank goodness it’s not! He was crazy! Have you done an NDC on any narcs?

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