The Joys of Therapy and the Narcissist



It is an acknowledged fact that you never see us coming. We are creatures that are insidious and pervasive. It is astonishing that we are not seen because we hardly arrive quietly. We appear with great fanfare, fireworks, flashing lights and symphonic sounds. You cannot miss us but of course all of that obscures what we really are. Even when our true intentions begin to manifest you still do not recognise what we are. There are those of you who meet us once and then fall prey a second or even a third time, such is the manner in which we inveigle our way into your lives. You never ever know who we are when we first enter your life and often you do not realise until years afterwards what has happened to you. Some never even achieve enlightenment. Everything we do is designed to deceive. We are shrouded in deceit, it oozes from us and taints everything around us but you rarely see all of that. We are masters of deception, masked and cloaked, our true intentions hidden behind a sheen of flattery and a wall of manipulation. We know you blame yourselves when you finally realise who you have danced with. We are aware that you see it all too clearly after the event and you blame yourself repeatedly. You really ought not to be so harsh on yourselves, you never stood a chance. It is not just you who cannot penetrate our veil of secrecy, the so-called professionals often fail as well. If they cannot see us then you can be forgiven for doing so can’t you?

There is an army of therapists, doctors, counsellors, life-coaches and so on. Call them what you will and for all their academic brilliance, their soothing words and supposed insight there are many (although not all admittedly) who are unable to detect us either. They have not experienced what you have and therefore they can only speak from a position of learned, rather than experienced, knowledge. Many of our kind never have any interaction with these people since we refuse to acknowledge there is anything wrong with us much less see any need to be subjected to this scrutiny. This diminishes the prospects of these professionals from gaining a proper understanding. Moreover on the occasions when they might just happen to have one of our kind inside their consulting rooms we do everything in our expansive charismatic power to persuade them that not only is there nothing wrong with us but we are the victims of vile behaviour from the very person who forced us to attend on this shrink. Accordingly, their opportunities to understand us and learn from us are limited and this in turn allows us to continue unhindered in our machinations.

Prior to the good doctors who at least appear to know what they are doing, I merrily attended sessions with therapists and their ilk on five occasions. How could I pass up such a succulent opportunity to gather more fuel from this new arrival and also from you. I would resist any attempt to move into this arena of psychoanalysis at first, purely in order to heighten your woe, hurt and frustration. Eventually and often when perceiving a risk that you would voluntarily threaten my supply of fuel I would agree to attend. I prepared in advance as I selected all of the instruments of charm and flattery from my Devil’s Toolkit. Oh how I enjoyed those sessions. My other half would always pay for them so there was a blast of fuel from the off and I relished the opportunity to demonstrate my amenable and charming nature to them. In these sessions with therapists and the like I always adopted a twin strategy. Charm on the one hand and plausible deniability on the other.

I would present at the appropriate place, early, relaxed and looking forward to the chance to tell someone all about me for an hour and paid for by you. I would be pleasant, engaging and treat the time as a fireside chat as I spoke well of my other half, my friends, my job and my achievements. I talked about some of my interests, film in particular and would always ask the other person about their favourite films. They never refused me an answer. The first session was always a breeze as I fillybusted until the time had elapsed. I would continue to do this in each session and often they would allow me to talk and talk. They might try and steer the conversation onto something relevant to my behaviour and I would steer it back on to something else. The first counsellor I saw admitted after five sessions that there was nothing to discuss much to my delight and the girlfriend at the time’s dismay.

It became a challenge whenever the issue of help, therapy or treatment arose. I would go along and draw the positive fuel from the therapist and then draw negative fuel from whoever had insisted on me attending.

“Yes it is going well, we just have a chat really. It is all very amicable.”

“She clearly likes me as she always laughs at my jokes.”

“Did you know he supports the same football team as me? He even sits in the same stand.”

“I am not allowed to tell you about it.”

The last one is a favourite as the pseudo-confidentiality that I apply to the scenario frustrates and irritates you because after all, you need to know because you want to help and by not telling you anything on the basis of instruction from the therapist your bewilderment and frustration increases.

Where my opponent has pressed the issue and asked me and kept on asking me about the alleged behaviours that you have detailed to them beforehand I am always able to drive such doubt into the conversation that it dilutes any attempt to identify what I truly am. It is laughable. When I first ensnare you I do not show you my true colours so do you think that I would behave any different with someone who is trying to trap me and pin me down? Of course not. The catalogue of behaviour outside of normative engagements is fed back to me and I am able to deal with it all. I am an astute enough person to realise that a bare-faced denial will seem evasive and may alert my examiner. Instead, I explain away the perceived problem.

“Yes I admit I do sometimes lose my temper but who doesn’t? I work long hours and I do get a little irritable at times, I know I shouldn’t but I am only human aren’t I?”

“She is rather sensitive so she does tend to exaggerate. She had a bad time of it with her last boyfriend you see. I try and be supportive but it can be difficult because she sees so much in the same way as when she was with him. I don’t blame her it just becomes hard to deal with at times, I am sure you know what I mean, for example there was this one time…..”

“We have a passionate relationship so there are break-ups and make-ups. There is a lot of passionate energy between us and sometimes it does get a little out of hand, on both sides, but that’s the way we are. I recognise my part in this, that after all is why I am here and I would really appreciate it if you could help me to help her. What do you suggest?”

Events are watered down, instances diluted and happenings blurred. Plausible deniability is rolled out and allied with charm results in me walking away with another admirer to my collection and you bemused as to how I have seemingly got away with it again. You really ought not to (although I am pleased you do) get so upset by it since they really do have little chance to uncover what we truly are. What of Dr E and Dr O I hear you ask? Yes well it took two of them in a pincer movement and only because I had to yield to them but that war is still ongoing and there is much fuel to obtain yet.

45 thoughts on “The Joys of Therapy and the Narcissist

  1. lickemtomorrow says:

    I definitely feel you on this one, AspEmp – “I was allowed to be ‘me’ – ah, such liberation.”

    Not just being handed the key to unlock the mystery, but a chance to air our grievances, feel our pain, commiserate with others and celebrate our newfound freedom, too <3 Thank you for putting it so well and in the context of the community HG has created here x

    I also feel you on the mother issue, and the general inability people have to speak ill of them or to hear ill spoken of them. It's amazing sometimes when you open that can of worms how others start opening up about their own experiences. Just before HG came back online a couple of weeks ago I had one of the worst nightmares I can remember. In the dream I murdered my mother. I call it a nightmare because despite how I feel about her I could never imagine doing such a thing. At the same time it's apparent my hatred for her runs deep. Those unresolved issues that float to the surface from your subconscious as you sleep. In the dream I was glad she was dead, but my dilemma arose when I had to think about disposing of the body! I didn't have remorse as much as regret I didn't have more well thought out plan. I woke up at the point and realized how much hurt I still needed to overcome. Maybe I will never overcome it. But I do believe the healing begins by being able to talk about these things, bring them to the surface instead of bubbling just below, and hopefully have others acknowledge the hurt you have experienced at the hands of someone who was supposed to love you.

    1. Asp Emp says:

      Hello LET 🙂

      Oh, thank you for your words.

      Bloody hell – dreaming about your mother. That is certainly a nightmare from hell!

      (I know it is no laughing matter)……. yet I laughed when I read “my dilemma arose when I had to think about disposing of the body!”

      Have you used HG’s ‘Letter to Narcissist’ in order to ‘write’ to mother? I felt so much better when I did that. In my usual style, of course 😉 Or write it but don’t send it for the time being? In my view, the more you write it down, the more deeper you can go within yourself – as a means of ‘purging’ the ‘hurt’. This is partly why I found HG’s ‘The Creature – An Introduction’ so very useful for me as I was able to see better my own ‘darkness’. It was like a ‘light-bulb’ moment for me.

      On that note, I think my grandmother ‘sensed’ her daughter’s narcissism and had wanted to protect me all the years my grandmother was around. I was loved. By my grandmother. Just typing this has made me feel glad to have had her in my life and a little teary but my ET is not affected (if you can understand what I mean).

      I am glad you shared your thoughts / feelings. Thank you.

      1. lickemtomorrow says:

        Hi AspEmp, and thanks again for your response <3 I'm grateful you have been willing to share so candidly which has helped me do the same. I never thought of writing a "Letter to the Narcissist" letter to my mother. I did write one for my most recent ex. The pain and associated trauma with him was closest to the surface at the time. It might be something to keep in mind, but right now I'm keeping her at arm's length both mentally and physically. She really feels like poison to me. She has definitely poisoned my life.

        I'm so glad you had your grandmother and your father to act as a firewall in your situation. It sounds like she did what she could, and if she was empathic there's no doubt she picked up on your mother's behaviours even if she didn't know they were narcissistic. It must have made a big difference to you at the time. And I do understand when you say "teary" but your ET is not affected. Emotions are not the same as emotional thinking and tears can be very welcome sometimes xox

        1. Asp Emp says:

          Hello LET, RE: Letter to the Narcissist – the narcissistic affects from a mother is different compared to an intimate partner – that is my own perspective. Having said that, a mother is from birth and leads to future entanglements with those who have narcissism.

          Oh, my grandmother – definitely empath. She offered me a home when I was 25 years old, despite my living in a flat. It was fear of a new start in life at that age and maybe the narcissist mother’s ‘pull’ was too strong. At the same time, it was a lot further away from friends that I knew at the time. My grandmother was not the sort of person to say out loud and say “I need someone to help care for me and to continue to live at home for longer”. In some way, I let her down and myself down.

          Anyway, thank you for sharing, LET x

          1. lickemtomorrow says:

            Hey Asp Emp, I agree the effects of the narc partner are different than those of the narc mother. While one is romantic, the other is familial, so definitely different. Different kinds of pain, too, I think. The type of betrayal is also different. The love and loyalty of a parent is something foundational to our being. It is, in a way, irreplaceable. That is a massive betrayal and a very deep pain. But it took the trauma of the romantic narcissistic relationship/s to probably highlight that for me. While I can touch on the less foundational relationships, it’s a lot harder to deal with the one/s that actually helped to create me. I am going to keep your idea in mind and I know I’ve read some really moving letters here where I don’t know that I could say it any better myself. In fact, I’ve read so many comments here lately which are so eloquent and insightful. I never feel I have anything to add because that person has said it all, and has said it for me as well. There are some truly extraordinary empaths here <3 Including you 🙂 xox

            I know you loved your grandmother. It comes out in everything you say about her. Considering she knew the negative effect your mother had on you, and how you had managed to find a way to distance yourself from that, I'm sure she understood your decision. She loved you, too. Perhaps she had difficulty saying she needed support, but that doesn't mean you let her down. From my perspective it means that while an opportunity presented itself, it was not necessarily right for you at the time. And in the circumstances could have been quite damaging if it meant being close to your mother again. That would not have done you or your grandmother any good. I don't know how things turned out for your granny, but sometimes it's necessary to seek support outside of the family and it can even work out for the better. More specialized services exist for a reason. I hope she did get the support she needed, and also hope you can let go of any regrets around that. Easier said than done, I know <3 xox

          2. Asp Emp says:

            LET, interesting you say “the type of betrayal is also different” – yes, it certainly is. You have explained it very well in your first paragraph.

            Thank you, on saying ‘extraordinary empaths here’ – I totally agree.

            Your second paragraph – thank you for saying all that about my grandmother. Made me cry, in a sad but good way. In my view the ‘damage’ was already done and ‘allowed’ to ‘permeate’ inside me for far too long and also ‘spilled out’ onto my relationships with other people. My grandmother got to see my mother’s ‘darker side’ on a number of occasions – including when mother had been drinking and insisted that my sister & I pack our bags and mother drove home while under the influence of alcohol (about 3 times) – my grandmother would have been heart broken about that (her daughter being ‘something’ my grandmother did not bring up) and also for ‘hurting’ her grand-daughters, never mind doing something so stupid as ‘reckless’ driving. It was about a 2.5 hour journey, late at night. No-one else really saw that ‘side’ of my mother. I have no idea whether grandmother told my aunt about mother’s dangerous and stupid actions to risk people’s lives.

            Grandmother ended up living in a nursing home for around 15 years…… she just needed someone to help her ie cook meals, go shopping etc. I suppose it was really my company that she also preferred over anyone else’s. Being around her – I could feel her ‘light’, she was really something. I know, I inherited her ‘light’ yet have the ‘dark’ traits, which were not from my grandmother. There is a possibility that grandmother would have been a great ‘therapy’ for me had I made a different choice. Then again, maybe I would not have ended up here on KTN. Life’s mysteries have a way of working……

            Thank you for your words. It was good to think & share x

          3. lickemtomorrow says:

            I’m sorry to hear what you had to go through with your mother, AspEmp. That must have been very frightening. Especially as a child. Part of the LOCE which brought us to where we are today. And it can be hard at times for other people to intervene, though it sounds like your grandmother tried. Alcohol brought out the worst in my father. He wasn’t an alcoholic, but the worst often came out when he drank. My ex-husband was the opposite. He got very mushy whenever he had a few drinks. The kids still remember when he tried to ‘pash’ me one time after coming over once we’d separated! Tried to get the tongue in and all (ewww 😛 ) They think it’s hilarious still.

            It’s true about life’s mysteries and a fact that in hindsight we can see how different choices might have benefited. The reality is we didn’t know that at the time. So we can’t keep blaming ourselves for something that might have worked out and potentially might not have worked out. That’s the mysterious part … we will never know. And can only do what we think best at the time. At least we are here now and can resolve some of the mystery surrounding us <3 xox

          4. Asp Emp says:

            LET, my mother was a b*tch. Yes, we never know at moments when life comes to a fork in the road ahead and sometimes there is no time to think when an opportunity presents itself – either you do or you don’t. It was good to chat, thank you x

          5. Another Cat says:

            Asp Emp
            Reflecting on whether you let an empathic family member down. You really didn’t know, AE. You were trying your absolute best, that’s my impression. You were probably a light for her. This reminds me of feeling guilty for not saving my dad, but in a way I did, we did lots of fun things together as he was his usual helping ppl out, apologizing, fixing for cutomers, being the magnet he was.
            We didn’t know how devastating our mothers were, AE. You did your best in the circumstances.

          6. Asp Emp says:

            NC, thank you so much for that – especially the part about the ‘light’ for her. I was her favourite, she spoiled me. Thank you, I will take your words and see it that way 🙂

    2. A Victor says:

      Asp Emp and LET,
      Both very relatable comments for me. The summer narc suggested I do away with my parent’s, more than once. At the time I laughed it off (!!, and he did not laugh!!), but it stuck in my mind and was a big part of the reason for me ending that.

      Anyway, I have yet to have anyone in my life love me for just being me, except my kids. I am so thankful to have been an empath, though I didn’t know I was at the time, when raising them. It caused me to raise them with this kind of love, unconditional, what I always wished I had in my life, even without ever having experienced it before. Not perfectly, of course, but sincerely. Coming here, I have learned why this was so important to me, I am an Empath!!

      1. lickemtomorrow says:

        Appreciate you sharing, AV, and that summer narc sounds like some guy! I don’t blame you for ending it, especially with the suggestion coming from him and no sense of humour to back it up. It’s one thing for us to have a rant, it’s another for someone else to come in and make suggestions on the back of that. That’s not what we need.

        I can relate to everything you said in your last paragraph, AV. It’s amazing how something we have never experienced for ourselves can somehow still exist in us and be shared with others. And, of course, not perfectly but sincerely <3

        Celebrating our awesome empath natures again today 🙂 xox

  2. Asp Emp says:

    I’d like to comment – based on the title of this article – my ‘joy’ is being able to freely say that…..

    One thing for sure, I am not like my mother. I have not turned out to be like she was. I now understand fully why I actually hated her. I was right to do so. I don’t dwell on it any more. She didn’t support me as much as my dad did. When I told people (who did NOT know my background, childhood experiences, experiences as an adult, etc, etc) “I hated my mother” – the usual response? Shock. Gasps. Sharp in-take of breath.

    I mean seriously. WTF? They didn’t know my “mother”. They don’t know ME. And already, I am being “judged”. I mean F.O. (HG’s article ‘Provocation’).

    By people who don’t KNOW. Lack of awareness. Lack of understanding. That is the awful truth – of today’s society – and it always has been that way. ‘Conditioning’ like herds of sheep – same view, looking in the same direction, at the same old blue sky and the stars and the moon – but not looking at PEOPLE. WITH. A. CLEAR. AND. CLEAN. PAIR. OF. SPECTACLES. THAT. ARE. NOT. ROSE. COLOURED. LENSES.

    Why? Because narcissism is actually a ‘hidden’ condition – just like many other ‘conditions’ ie Deafness, Aspergers, Co-mormid personalities, Complex personalities, etc. I could list them all but I haven’t got all night to spend on listing…..

    Ok, there is a ‘glimpse’ of light at the end of the tunnel – that HG’s work is being spoken of & recognised – great news. And. About time.

    Sharpening my claws, sharpening my mind (eh! ET had better go HOME – well, at least, ‘managed’ to the best of my ability) – when this Covid Lockdown ends – there WILL be some discussions on my part with those that need to know ie my GP (for a big start) and she will pass on to her colleagues and my friend who will also be passing on to Clinical Commissioning Group contacts and so on…… I will not be sitting and doing FK all about this. It needs to be said. And done.

    So, what is my ‘joy’ about what I said above?

    HG’s work works. It was the right ‘therapy’ for me. The freedom to word it in the way he allowed me to word it on this blog. That is pure and utter liberation. I was allowed to express my thoughts, my emotions, my way of thinking, my anger, my FK U’s, slag the past narcissist’s off, I was allowed to be ‘me’ – ah, such liberation.

    I made the right decision. For me. For myself.

    That is true Empowerment.

    1. Truthseeker6157 says:


      Fully agree. People just love to judge when they know absolutely nothing about what has gone before.
      Being able to express myself in a safe place here on the blog has really been key to me getting back on my feet as well. I don’t think I fully realised how low I was when I first arrived. I realise it now because now I feel better.

      I have never felt judged here. That’s the difference. Not by other readers but also not by HG either. Even when my ET has skyrocketed, it has been calmly pointed out but I have never been judged. I realise that in real life that would not be the case with a narcissist, so my rose tinted glasses are off as far as that goes. I take as I find though and here on the blog, I have only felt supported by HG and everyone else in this very special place.

      1. Asp Emp says:

        Hi TS, yes, I am in the mind-frame of refusing to be ‘judged’ by those ignorant of who and what I am – hence my words on my comment above. I don’t really hold back, do I? 😉 I agree with what you have said. This blog is and will always be a special place for me – changed my outlook in myself, the past etc. Yes, HG provides so much support (as well as other people on this blog do too). No wonder why we, empaths, gather up together when we see HG being ‘put down’ by the likes of a certain “heyoka” (I am laughing at the memory of the conversations – hilarious) – so I suppose it works both ways – HG supporting us and us supporting HG.

        1. Truthseeker6157 says:

          Exactly as it should be xx

    2. Bubbles 🍾 says:

      Dearest Asp Emp,
      I’m so glad you commented
      I had the same judgement regarding my mother. Those who knew me reflected their opinions with their preconceived ideas on a mother/daughter relationship
      How could I NOT contact my mother, what a horrible person I was. Even when I did, I never received a reply from her, it must STILL be my fault. Not one person could rationalise at the time of a mother dissing her own daughter ! It must be the other way around!
      I was castigated, how could I treat my poor mum this way – her only daughter ! Imagine how upset she much be, not seeing your mum on Mother’s Day, her birthday or Christmas
      When I mentioned she was on the eccentric side, how could I say such things !
      Making up lies about my dear ol mum !
      I was not believed!

      Even now, if I raise the word “narcissist” with a professional, I’m still given a strange bewildered look.
      It’s also the bruises you don’t see, that inflict pain n injury as well!
      Having this safe platform confirms we are not alone and thankfully, judgement ruling is not our sentence here 💕
      Luv Bubbles xx 😘

      1. Another Cat says:

        Dear Bubbles

        “How could I NOT contact my mother, what a horrible person I was”

        I even worry that maybe someone Over Here, in Narcsite, shall judge me for having zero contact with her. That’s how stigmatized being NC with one’s mother, can feel. It is what it is, sending you much love and the best wishes in your freedom, Bubbles. 🌷🌷

        1. Bubbles 🍾 says:

          Dearest Another Cat,
          Thank you lovely, your comment is most appreciated
          Being a caring type of person, I constantly felt a sense of guilt at having done something wrong. That’s why I wrote to her for 21years. I needed an explanation! What did ” I ” do ?
          Not once did she reply or contact me, ’twas only when my step dad died
          She brought it up again the other day in such a jovial manner “ha ha ha”, that when he died, the only thought she had was “who’s going to look after me now ?” Funny how I suddenly popped into her head and that’s when I finally heard from her
          She relies heavily on me for everything now. Knowing what she is, I can handle her
          A normal mother/daughter relationship is “meant” to be a natural caring maternal bonding instinct
          But alas, not when you have a narcissistic mother, who never wanted kids in the first place ….. as she keeps telling me !
          Sending my love n best wishes also 💕
          Luv Bubbles xx 😘

          1. Another Cat says:

            Oh, Bubbles I recognize that feeling when narcs mention the death of a family member/their spouse. They can’t feel or relate. My ex motherinlaw just smiled and talked about all the trips she had planned with her husband,no silence or pause to actually remember him.

            You keep some contact with your mother, which I kind of admire your strength for because I get isolated from relatives due to my no contact. Working on finding new friends and old ones too!

            This means you have a connection with the others still.👍 A relief.

          2. Bubbles 🍾 says:

            Dearest Another Cat,
            I recently found out, my 86yr old cousin (I used to call him “uncle”) died. A long lost relly I reconnected mum with as he was her Aunty’s son. She would only contact him on a “I phoned him, now it’s his turn to phone me basis” ……well time lapsed, so I checked the “death notices” and there it was …… I felt a huge surge of sadness as he was part of my childhood memories. I informed my mother, she replied “no wonder he didn’t answer his phone, now I was thinking of decluttering my wardrobes, I have way too many clothes” 😱

            When my step dad died, mum wanted me to take piccies of herself next to the open casket …….smiling 😁. . . What the ?
            I pretty much only have my mother n brother left now . . . my brother n I are not close, he escaped home life at 16yrs and moved interstate and never really wanted to be a part of my life! We send birthday n xmas cards to each other n that’s about it !

            Sadly, a lot of people we know are “dropping off the twig”, developing cancers, motor neurone diseases or dementia
            That’s why it’s imperative we move forward to cherish and appreciate the life we have to the fullest !
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

            Ps I talk to my mum EVERYDAY !

      2. Asp Emp says:

        Wow, Bubbles, thank you so very much for sharing about your mother. I am so pleased to know that I am not the only “nasty daughter” on this planet (I have admit I am laughing, inappropriately, of course).

        It really proves that SOCIETY’s perceptions as a whole is so wrong. They are still wearing blinkers, ear plugs, rose-tinted spectacles (or should F.O. to Specsavers), wearing anal probes….

        Your saying “Even now, if I raise the word “narcissist” with a professional, I’m still given a strange bewildered look” – seriously!?!? You could maybe say, I recognise that look on your face, it’s classed as a ‘404’ (without further explanation – let them fkg Google it) (sorry HG, for advising a mention but not wording ‘narcissism’).

        Ah, Bubbles, I feel a lot better now for reading what you had to say. Bless you lass x

        1. Bubbles 🍾 says:

          Dearest Asp Emp,
          Heaven knows what she told people about “nasty” me and us …….still don’t know !
          I do know she shredded heaps of her diaries, papers and no doubt letters n cards I had sent her, when I came back on the scene
          Yes, seriously, I had a follow up check up the other day and mentioned to my professional health care provider, that my health issues had stemmed from narcissistic abuse ….. well the blank look on his face was priceless …. no comment was made ……then moving right along haha

          He’d obviously been to Specsavers, the blinkers matched his earplugs, however, I can’t comment about the anal probe, without further investigation 🤣
          Thanks gorgeous… how did you know my ancestors were Scottish ?
          Luv Bubbles xx 😘

          1. Asp Emp says:

            Hello Bubbles, the shredding of her diaries – when you came back on the scene…… wow. Reminded me of when mother was “allowed” home for 2 weeks (she’d been in hospital for 2 months) – I offered to visit her at home – she refused. I suppose she was doing something similar but was back in hospital following a relapse & passed away 3 weeks later…..

            Some so called professionals will always be the wrong person for anyone to ‘treat’ people.

            Laughing…… RE: “I can’t comment about the anal probe, without further investigation”…… ok, here’s another ‘404’ you can offer – “Is that the top end of an anal probe I can see at the back of your throat as you are speaking?”……

            I had no idea about your Scottish ancestors. Part of my family are (father half Irish & half Scottish) = me, 25% each of both those and 50% English…. with a bit extra thrown in LOL.

            Your words “But alas, not when you have a narcissistic mother, who never wanted kids in the first place ….. as she keeps telling me” – resonated with me, being told that both me and sister were “accidents”. Maybe it is only a narcissist mother who would say those words.

          2. A Victor says:

            Hi Asp Emp and Bubbles,

            This conversation has been helpful, thank you both for your transparency regarding your mothers. It is a horrible thing to have to deal with all the way around. The various ways that people here do or have done so gives a lot of help with regard to it.

            I have a network of people in my life who do understand narcissism, at least to a degree, and who also know my mother enough to understand a bit of what I am dealing with, though they would possibly be surprised if I actually called her a narcissist. Overall they are supportive of me but would probably think I was going too far if I went complete NC. My children would understand it better but even they not completely.

            There is and historically has been such value given to mothers that I think our world just is jolted by anyone not having loving, usual regard for their mother. It is a very real thing and there is pressure for sure. Having a supportive place such as this, where people get it and don’t judge is very helpful.

          3. Bubbles 🍾 says:

            Dearest Asp Emp,
            Haha, luv your 404 ! I thought anal probing was now the new Covid testing seeing as they’re cutting costs and improvising . . either end will do 🤣

            All narcs keep secrets . . . sneaky little buggas!

            I would never tell my child they were an “accident” . . . EVER . . . what a completely horrid thing to say (along with, as most here know with me) “the only reason you’re here is because the abortionist was on holidays”

            So, lucky me, ended up as being the “golden child” . . . Whoop de do 🎉

            I definitely have English in me, we are originally “convicts” here after all . . . 😂
            Also did my DNA testing, to be sure to be sure, yep there’s Irish there as well, but I also have strong roots in Edinburgh and Aberdeen, no wonder I’ve always believed in . . .
            FREEEEDOOOOM ! ! !
            Who knows Asp Emp we could be related 😱
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

          4. Asp Emp says:

            Hey Bubbles,

            Loving your explanation RE: covid-testing – any end will do. Laughing….. still waiting for their ‘improvisation’ on me 😉

            Laughing…… “abortionist on holidays” – brilliant…

            Laughing…… “convicts”…… RE: being a mixture of the English, Scottish & Irish – you have probably explained why I am such ballsy bitch……

            Faaaaaacccckkkkk – me, related to you?! Well, I’d love me to find ‘long lost’ family somewhere 😉

            Ah, bless you Bubbles, you really made me laugh, thank you so much……. (still laughing)……. hugs to you for that alone x

          5. Bubbles 🍾 says:

            Dearest A Victor,
            Thank you for your feedback lovely, so glad to be of some help and more than happy to oblige in the tales of my mummy dearest 😂
            There’s a definitely a difference to feed, clothe n watering compared to mothering. My mum wouldn’t know what mothering was, I’m nothing more than her ‘go to’ appliance, just call me ‘Rosie’, the name of the Jetsons robotic maid and housekeeper, that’ll do 😂
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

          6. A Victor says:

            Bubbles, your comment made me laugh! You are so accepting of the situation and so casual about it, I aspire to this! You and Asp Emps dialog here has kept me in giggles too! Thanks to you both!

          7. Bubbles 🍾 says:

            Dearest Asp Emp n A Victor,
            The perplexities of narcissism and its abuse is so serious, we need not only to vent, but also to never forget about laughter. . . I believe it helps immensely in our recovery . . .something a narc can’t do . . . recover!
            Never forget to recharge your batteries with laughter !

            Just a little random story to share . . . I was at my hairdressers yesterday and he was telling me about this female at his gym who was still extremely upset about being dumped from her Mr Muscle gym junkie non committal boyfriend of 8 years and now 6 months later he is engaged to a new female! She created a fake profile to check up on him !
            My hairdresser said to her “why are you checking up on him, delete it and move on with your life?” So, she took his advice . . . and deleted it! She texted him whilst I was there thanking him and said she felt really great about finally doing it!
            I said to my hairdresser, “he’s sounds like a narcissistic arsehole” he replied “funny, thats exactly what she said ! ”

            I couldn’t help but chuckle to myself because of its textbook style scenario of Tudor tutorials !

            I mentioned to my hairdresser he could set up his own room and charge psych fees because everyone listens to him and the fact he’s better than a psych . . . he agreed haha

            Here’s to laughing lovelies 🥂
            Sending Hugs 🤗 right back
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

          8. Asp Emp says:

            Bubbles, “Never forget to recharge your batteries with laughter !”…… no wonder we get called ‘appliances’ (laughing).

            Interesting RE: conversation with the hairdresser.

            I agree with you RE: laughter. x

          9. Bubbles 🍾 says:

            Dearest Asp Emp,
            Thank you for your comment lovely
            Yes, I have loads of batteries on hand, a “wind-up” on my back, an auto on off switch, a pop up mode and a good extended warranty 🤣
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

          10. Asp Emp says:

            Laughing……. brilliant….. laughing….

  3. KYOKO H BRANZ says:

    Thank u for this, yet infinitely again


  4. A Victor says:

    Going to counseling with my ex did damage because it made me question myself and my view of what was happening because this professional was. It was horrible.

    1. Another Cat says:


      Same experience. Really really sorry about what you went through. In many examples the therapist has NPD. And several times not.

      1. A Victor says:

        AC, thanks, I feel for you as well, it’s abuse heaped on abuse.

      2. vandenboss says:

        Yes,thats my experience aswell. My theory about the high number of narcissist working in mental healthcare is,not very original, control and fuel! ”Tell me about your childhood,what did your father/mother say or do?” And 9 out 10 the tears start rolling. Get to make people cry with the minimum of effort.

        1. Bubbles 🍾 says:

          Dear vandenboss,
          Yes, that pretty much sums it up haha
          Also “where do you see yourself in 5 years time? ”
          Then you end up not going back
          Luv Bubbles xx 😘

          1. vandenboss says:

            Dear Bubbles,

            Shame and sad that such occupations are over represented with..

            When people still want to try therapy, then they may want to consider to audio record the sessions.
            Dont get me wrong,it will always be an unhealthy endeavor,when its an unhealthy therapist ! Its their hunting ground and client is the prey

            Luv and peace! xx

          2. Asp Emp says:

            “where do you see yourself in 5 years time? ” – loved that. When I was seeing a “therapist” – I only went a few times – I cannot remember if I refused to continue because the guy was just sat there being absolutely unresponsive. Obviously, it didn’t work for me yet 30 years later, I am here. Go figure.

          3. vandenboss says:

            ”You should let go” Is something all therapist like to say. Don’t tell me doc…!

          4. Asp Emp says:

            If that is all a “therapist” says, then they are not doing their job……

          5. Witch says:

            “Where do you see yourself in 5 years time?”

            Fantasy: feeding my monitors and iguanas on a reptile farm

            Reality: erm I don’t know, still broke I guess with a different kind of stress, struggling to pay off a mortgage and living off of beans like most people I know

          6. Bubbles 🍾 says:

            Dear vandenboss, Asp Emp, n Witch,
            Ironically as well, 5 years down the track, here I am ! (Maybe “I” could now psych the psych) 🤣 Or at least give them a good run for their money 🤣
            Not one therapist ever mentioned “emotional thinking or narcissism” … go figure !
            I would always leave in tears and feeling worse than when I went with no decisive explanations or resolutions in sight. I never came across a straight shooter like Mr Tudor, they were always like “Dr Neil in The Santa Clause” movie ..”how does that make you feel?” along with intimating delusional thinking 🤔
            Haha, yes, the “just let go” analysis, like WE are the problem and all will be back to “normal” again !

            Being able to relate here and having Mr Tudor as our mentor, just doesn’t get any better than that
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

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