The Saviour Cadre of Empath



There are four schools of empath (Co-Dependent, Standard, Super and Contagion). There are many cadres of empath which layer on to those schools. These cadres include the Carrier, the Magnet and the Geyser, about which I have written previously. A further cadre is that of the Saviour Empath.

The Saviour Empath’s mission is to heal and to save, to ensure that good prevails. They are the archetypal believer in the idea that there is some good in everybody. With regard to our kind, the Saviour Empath does not consider that we are intrinsically ‘evil’ or ‘bad’. They prefer to adopt the view that there is good locked away inside of us and that it just has to be discovered, unlocked and set free. This notion of course and the desire to address this apparent goodness is a very strong binder which enables us to keep a hold on the Saviour Empath. Indeed, there are those of our kind who will play on this concept and this is addressed below.

The Saviour Empath feels an overriding need to save the world. They wish to right the wrongs, heal the sick, tend to the injured and ensure that injustices are overturned. It is this desire which is at the very heart of the Saviour Empath. The Saviour Empath is often someone who subscribes to a belief system (whether it is organised religion, karma, paganism or similar) although the absence of such a belief does not discount the person as being a Saviour Empath, but a reliance on a belief system is a hallmark of the Saviour Empath.  How does this manifest with regard to each school of empath?

Standard Empath  – the Saviour Standard Empath regards it as imperative that he or she comes to the aid of people. They will donate to charity, help out voluntary organisations and are giving of their time. With regard to the narcissist, this manifests as adopting a sympathetic and compassionate approach to the unusual behaviours (when the empath is not aware they are ensnared by a narcissist) of the narcissist. Accordingly, they regard the narcissist as a ‘good’ person (supported by the narcissist’s illusory behaviour during the golden period) and therefore when devaluation occurs they will ascribe the behaviour to arising from a third party event rather than seeing it as the behaviour of the narcissist at work. The Standard Empath wants to assist the narcissist and does so by trying to understand and offer solutions linked to the aberrant behaviour that is being witnessed. The Saviour Standard Empath whilst wanting to save the narcissist from whatever terrible third party event or influence that is causing the behaviour (for example, is the narcissist struggling at work, is he stressed, has he got problems with money or drink?). The Saviour Standard Empath will put themselves in the firing line when trying to assist, but they do not tend to regard the problem as much to do with them but rather another factor which they want to tackle and overcome.

Super Empath – the Saviour Super Empath is akin to a caped crusader who fires into action whenever he or she witnesses injustice. They cannot help but interfere when really it is not their business (this is the narcissistic trait of selfishness coming to the fore momentarily). The Saviour Super Empath will not turn a blind eye to someone in trouble, they will help the injured person and then look to tackle the perpetrator (or at least bring them to account through formal channels). Thus is the Saviour Super Empath sees someone being attacked, they will help the victim, look to fight off the attacker and/or chase them down, either themselves or enlisting help. They cannot let any kind of injustice go unaddressed. The Saviour Super Empath has a very strong moral compass and therefore when they see something that is wrong, it very much boils their piss so they spring into action. Whilst they always look to help people, what really matters to the Saviour Super Empath is bringing people to account for their actions. If they see a person cutting into a queue (line) they will upbraid the offender. If they witness a person stealing, they will look to stop them or report them. The Saviour Super Empath is a firm believer in the need for good to prevail, whether this is in a situation or in a person. With regard to the narcissist that a Saviour Super Empath is embroiled with, the Saviour Super Empath knows that this person has a kernel of goodness and if they only triedto embrace it, let it shine etc then such a difference will appear. They believe the narcissist has it inside of them to make adjustments, amend their behaviour and harness the intrinsic goodness inside of them. The Saviour Super Empath knows that they are a force for good and they believe that the narcissist can do the same. The Saviour Super Empath recognises that they themselves are good people but that they have some degree of edge to them (their narcissistic traits appearing from time to time) and they often regard the narcissist in the same light – a person who has edge but is intrinsically good – and this fools the Saviour Super Empath in to wanting to assist and save the narcissist.

The Co-Dependent – the Co-Dependent who is of the Saviour Cadre finds the world to be a terrible place and wishes to administer succour to the downtrodden, to assist the hurt, and to heal the wounds of the injured. They are less concerned about bringing the offender to justice and more about attending to the people who are left cowering and broken in the wake of oppression and violence. The Saviour Co-Dependent is a person who is extremely caring and compassionate – the type of person who would join Medicins Sans Frontieres and arriving at the scene of a humanitarian disaster would work themselves into the ground to try and ease the suffering of each and every person even though it is an impossible task. They are often overwhelmed by the cruelty of the world and despair at its evil ways, but this will not stop them from trying to save each and every person who is in need of help. This applies to the way they engage with the narcissist. The Saviour Co-Dependent (“SCD”) knows and is absolutely convinced that the narcissist is at heart a good person and with the right application of guidance, support, compassion and tolerance the narcissist will change, will improve and let that goodness shine. The SCD will not give up on the narcissist, even to personal cost to themselves. They know that redemption is just around the corner, that improvement is on the horizon and they will, with a zeal bordering on delusion, grasp at any sign of improvement or alteration in the narcissist’s behaviour as evidence that their faith has not proven incorrect.

The SCD will flagellate themselves in the pursuit of trying to help and heal the narcissist, their emotional thinking and innate desire to do good, plus their own need to achieve validation through their giving of themselves means he or she will continue to try to achieve the impossible. They will not wish to give up, they will see glimmers of hope, slivers of optimism and fragments of possibility in order to achieve their aim of saving the narcissist.

The Contagion – the Saviour Contagion Empath (“SCE”) will manifest their desire to assist as a consequence of the severe impact felt by them of the negative energy, suffering and misery that accompanies the human condition. The desire to save and resolve, to eradicate the diseased and bring about the healing is different to that of the other schools of empath. The SCE needs to achieve this in order to secure balance, which is their primary aim. By redressing the bad, through their saving good works then balance is restored and the polluting impact upon them of the negative energy which they feel – the manifestation of the woe, misery and hurt that others feel – is removed and no longer (albeit temporarily) ceases to be a burden upon them. With regard to the narcissist, the removal of the dark energy surrounding and flowing from the narcissist’s behaviours has a considerable impact on the finely-tuned SCE. In order to alleviate their own pain, in order to prevent themselves from being consumed by the darkness which they acutely feel, the SCE seeks to save the narcissist from their dark self. They similarly wish to achieve balance with their own personal narcissist or narcissists.

How are these various schools of Saviour Empath regarded by our brethren? As you might expect, the SE is naturally desired by narcissists for their empathic traits, class and special traits too. Accordingly, no narcissist will ever shy away from the ensnaring of the SE. There are certain schools and cadres of narcissist however that desire the SE in particular.

Victim Narcissists desire the Saviour Empath owing to their need to be mothered, looked after and saved from their various ailments (real or imagined). The SE’s desire to bring about healing and resolution is savoured by this cadre of narcissist. Lesser Narcissists will not turn away a Saviour Empath, but they are not favoured (unless the Lesser is of the Victim Cadre) since the Lesser has no truck with the idea of being healed or saved. From what? Will be the mocking response as their  complete lack of self-awareness means that they have no comprehension or need to be saved in that manner.

Mid Range Narcissists treasure Saviour Empaths because of the fact that some Mid Range Narcissists like to play the ‘troubled soul’ or ‘personal demons’ approach. Whilst unaware of what they are, their awareness that there is something not quite right, coupled with their passive behaviours and need for attention, means that the Mid Range Narcissist truly sees the Saviour Empath as the one who will save him from himself, even though this is just part of the manipulation to keep the Saviour Empath hooked. The Mid Range will revel in becoming the pet project for the Saviour Empath and will instinctively play along by tossing a bone of apparent awareness or improvement in order to maintain the hoped for glorious redemption that the Saviour Empath craves.

The Greater Narcissist is likely to prefer other cadres but again is not going to kick the Saviour Empath out of bed for eating crisps. The Greater may find tormenting the Saviour Empath a delightful machination by increasing the visibility of their dark side so that the Saviour Empath sees a challenge which has to be surmounted. Of course, the Saviour Empath is blind to the fact that the Greater cannot be healed or saved, but that will not stop the Saviour Empath from trying time and time again.

The Empath Detector 

131 thoughts on “The Saviour Cadre of Empath

  1. A Victor says:

    Well, during a conversation with a person last night, I was hit smack in the face with the fact that I see good in everyone, no way to not see it any more. And that this leaves me very vulnerable. Okay, accept and take steps to safeguard against those who would abuse this. Ugh…………. :.(

    1. Alexissmith2016 says:

      I see the bad AV but still go back for more ahahaha

      Don’t be too hard on yourself. You’re doing brilliantly x

      1. A Victor says:

        Thank you Alexissmith. Nice to hear from you!

    2. Leigh says:

      I always saw the good in everyone too. I always made excuses for people’s bad behaviors. Since coming here, that has changed. I don’t make excuses anymore and I don’t see the good in every one and my wall is way up high. You’ll start to recognize the red flags. I cant get rid of the old narcs in my life quite yet so I refuse to allow any new narcs in.

      And I agree with Alexis, you are doing brilliantly.

      1. A Victor says:

        Leigh, thank you for that encouraging remark!
        I love the way you all use ‘brilliantly’, we don’t use it in the same way over here, or at least not in my area. I take it as a nice compliment and I thank you.

        I’m not sure if i can change that aspect of myself, I am quite strongly Savior, but I can change how I approach new people, being open to the possibility of red flags, being prepared to walk away, thinking through any excuses that might come to mind with logic, looking for the evidence that upholds the logic, not sharing much so quickly, so trust has time to grow at a reasonable pace etc. And no new narcs, no way! You hit that on the head.

        I am glad you seem to be doing better!

        1. Leigh says:

          AV, I love how they talk too. Thats why I always copy it. I’m actually from the US though. I’m actually a New Yorker. I hope I was allowed to say that.

          1. A Victor says:

            Oh, everyone knows I’m from MN! No secret there! Thank you for sharing that, you now have a New Yorker accent in my mind! 🙂

          2. Leigh says:

            Lol! I really do!

        2. Leigh says:

          Yes, I’m feeling better but I’m starting to get nervous for him. I’m afraid he’s going to go into a fuel crisis. He had 70 employees who reported into him. Thats alot of NISS’s and with one move, they are all gone. I know I shouldn’t care but I can’t help myself.

          Thats the exact reason why I won’t let anyone new in. I’m still struggling with the narcs I already have in my life.

          1. WhoCares says:


            “I’m afraid he’s going to go into a fuel crisis. He had 70 employees who reported into him. Thats alot of NISS’s and with one move, they are all gone. I know I shouldn’t care but I can’t help myself.”

            It’s interesting how we can still care, only in a different way, once we become educated about narcissism.
            You reminded me of similar thoughts of my own, back when I realized that my mother was a narcissist. I actually felt bad that I knew she was undergoing a fuel crisis – or at the very least a significant fuel shortage. I actually felt some responsibility because her situation (being in a new city and fuel matrix) at the time was partly due to choices of mine. Because of having this understanding of her fuel needs – I actually allowed her to call me (which resulted in her ranting at me), in effort to bridge her fuel gap.
            How crazy is that!? (Mind you, it didn’t last long and I went NC). It just goes to show we actually need to stay away or our emotional thinking will continue to impact our behaviour and our choices – it is how we are made.
            Even with my knowledge of how my mother functions – this doesn’t mean I am responsible for the way that she functions or any deficits as a result of that truth.

          2. Leigh says:

            I know you’re right. I’m doing the same thing. I’m allowing him to text me as well. I just want to get over the hump. He always talks about committing suicide. I don’t know if I would be able to live with that.

          3. WhoCares says:


            After I escaped them, both my narcissists threatened suicide.

            My ex did it in a more blunt way:
            “I’ll kill myself before I’ll pay child support.”

            And my mother simply alluded to it.

            They’re both still alive and kicking.
            And my ex pays child support.

            Have you listened to HG’s video on the subject of narcissism and suicide? It may be helpful if you haven’t heard it yet:


          4. Leigh says:

            I don’t think I have heard that one. I will definitely listen.

          5. Leigh says:

            No I haven’t listened. I will definitely have you listen to that one.

          6. Leigh says:

            He gives me details about exactly how he would do it. It scares me.

          7. HG Tudor says:

            If you were in a no contact position you would not be in possession of any detail and therefore you would not be scared. Time for you to start taking responsibility.

          8. Leigh says:

            Yes, Mr. Tudor, I know its my fault because once you know you go and I haven’t gone no contact.

          9. HG Tudor says:

            It is good that you recognise that. Now, you must impose no contact and you must examine closely what is causing you from believing that you cannot do it (at all or yet).

          10. WhoCares says:


            Listen to HG.

            “He gives me details about exactly how he would do it. It scares me.”

            It’s not fair of your narc to burden you with this. That’s why it’s done. Your guilt is being used against you. He gives you the details in order to make it believable – so that you then feel guilty in stopping communication with him, in effort to keep him from supposedly going forward with it.
            If it you feel it’s that serious, than report his threats to self-harm to a professional, so that you feel as though you’ve done your duty.
            Give him a suicide hotline number and then block him entirely.

            When my narcissist told me he would commit suicide before paying child support, I knew that it was a guilt-laden manipulation. And I didn’t want to carry around that information, in case he did try. I reported it to at least 2 third parties who were involved at the time to absolve myself of any responsibility that I felt. One of those individuals was a child welfare worker and she said, “Well, a judge may have something to say about that.”
            Zero empathy for him – even less than what I had, and I did not have much.
            It’s a horrible thing to do to another human being and they think that we will not share the information with anyone – also due to guilt.

            Offload it, I say!
            And if you take responsibility for your own ‘no contact’, as HG says, then you will no longer hear about the subject.

          11. Leigh says:

            WhoCares, part of the problem is that I know he was made to be the scapegoat and that’s why he was laid off. It wasn’t anything he did. Our CEO is a narcissist as well. Because I’m in HR, I know the real reason it happened. I feel bad because what my CEO did was wrong. Workplace narc has a family and a feel bad for them too.

          12. Eternity says:

            Please stop feeling bad. That is what makes you go backwards. You need to move forward.
            He will find another job and don’t be surprised if he uses you as reference just to hoover you back in.

          13. Leigh says:

            He will definitely use me as a reference, especially since I’m in HR. A reference from HR is golden. Bastard

          14. Eternity says:

            Oh Leigh ,
            I feel for you right now. Hopefully you will not have to deal with him after this . He has caused to much damage already. Bastard is right. I can use more words but I won’t ,I don’t want to be kicked out of this place.

          15. Leigh says:

            Yes, I’d like to use worse as well, lol!

          16. Asp Emp says:

            If he does, I’d draft it up away from the office (at home where you can relax in your own space and be in control)? Be honest…. ie “he has a tendency to stand in office doorways fiddling with and adjusting his trousers” 😉 ….. is it worth finding out whether he’d asked other colleagues to also do a reference? Get contributions to his reference from your colleagues? Then there is no chance of you being implicated in any way should he use it against you in the future. It’s good he’s going – how many others at your work has he ‘affected’ but not been able to ‘speak up’ about it….. that is something I would have considered….

          17. Leigh says:

            I’ve often wondered that myself. How many others are there? Wouldn’t it be a hoot if I gave that reference. As a representative of the company, its illegal for me to do that though. I can’t give any information that hinders him from getting another job.

          18. Asp Emp says:

            Yes, I do know what can be written / said in a reference. It is illegal to put ‘falsehoods’ (ie slander / libel). Let’s hope he does not apply to work where there are people that are more vulnerable ie people with Learning Disabilities etc – hence why references are important.

            The organisation I volunteered for had very vague and flimsy ‘Recruitment & Selection’ policy & procedures that were detrimental to the service-users, staff, clients etc of the organisation. I was painted black for pointing it out, of course. Go figure, I did score highly on the Machiavellian compared to the Psychopathy & Narcissism of the Dark Triad……

          19. Leigh says:

            I saw someone ask Mr. Tudor once if he would be willing to set up interview questions specifically to weed out narcissists during the interview. I think that’s a brilliant idea and I hope Mr. Tudor considers it. I would purchase it. It could certainly help my career.

          20. Asp Emp says:

            Leigh, yes, it is a good idea, however, one needs to be careful as in UK, for example, it is illegal to ask questions in an interview if it would put that person at ‘disadvantage’ when it comes to equal opportunities legislation during the selection process of recruitment. It cannot always be assumed that it is a narcissist when in fact it can be someone with ASD or other ‘condition’ that has similar traits as to some as found with those who have narcissism. Or even an empath with a high erosion of emotional empathy. Or even someone whose first language is not English. Lots of reasons as to why it is important to have robust and review ‘policies & procedures’ – depending on the size of organisation and the work they do.

          21. Leigh says:

            Yes, its the same in the US. And the truth is just because they are narcissists doesn’t mean they are bad at what they do either.

          22. Asp Emp says:

            Leigh, that is very true.

          23. WhoCares says:


            Yes to what Eternity said!

            He’s well equipped to find a new job – his fuel needs will push him to.

            Just because you happen to have inside information about what went down, it doesn’t make you responsible for any fallout.

            Yes, your empathy will make you feel for his situation and his family – but it doesn’t change the fact that you have the *best* inside information: he is a narc, and whatever empathy you extend towards him will be happily accepted, and then used and abused.

          24. Leigh says:

            Yes, the plan is definitely to go no contact. There’s a piece of me that’s starting to feel good about the fact that he was let go. I don’t have to worry about seeing him around the office anymore. The further away they get the less the affect us.

          25. Eternity says:

            Who Cares ,
            I was actually speaking to a physchatrist regarding a family member who contiplated suicide. He said that if they talk about doing it they are less likely to actually go ahead and proceed through with it. In terms of the Narcissist situation it was for a pity play I believe,

          26. WhoCares says:


            “He said that if they talk about doing it they are less likely to actually go ahead and proceed through with it. ”

            That makes sense. If an empath were contemplating suicide, they wouldn’t use it to guilt someone into anything. They would just quietly plan it, or do it in a moment of extreme pain. There is no attention seeking in it for them.

          27. Eternity says:

            Tonight we were talking about Dr. Kevorkian. The suicide doctor that actually assisted people in committing suicide. Probably many Empaths have gone to him for advice and actually when ahead and did it.

          28. WhoCares says:

            Oh, I am sorry Eternity – I was talking to Leigh so much on this topic that I automatically addressed my reply to her, instead of putting your name.

          29. Eternity says:

            No worries! No need to to apologize .

          30. WhoCares says:

            One other thought Leigh – when I was concerned about my mother but not willing to tolerate the abusive phone calls, I pushed her to seek crisis counseling…by saying I would attend counseling with her…it was a little white lie…I half meant it , but I was also still waffling on accepting that she was a narcissist. After having HG’s confirmation, there was no way in heck I was going to join her for counseling. But she did go, I think, and I suspect that it helped her.

          31. BC30 says:

            Oh wow, absolutely no judgment here, but you are certainly ensnared. Anything he does, including suicide, is NOT your fault. It cannot be your fault. Moreover, he’s siphoning off you and eating away at your very being with a care for you at all.

            Allowing him to text you is permitting him to chip away at your tower. It will fall if you don’t stop. He’ll chip away until he shows up with flowers and promises and your “NC” crumbles completely.

            Meanwhile, sending you love and strength. ❤️❤️❤️

          32. Leigh says:

            Thank you BC30, yes I am still ensnared. .

          33. Leigh says:

            Thank you BC30, yes, I’m still ensnared. I’m working on it. Unfortunately hes one of the narcs that I still want to save. Its probably because I still get something out of it still. Not like with my husband or mother. I get nothing out of the deal with them.

          34. HG Tudor says:

            Whatever you believe you get out of it, I will give you at least five downsides which completely outweighs the perceived benefit.

          35. BC30 says:

            Yes. To say the least!

          36. Alexissmith2016 says:

            Eeek I’m feeling guilty that I don’t feel anything when a narc is going through a fuel crisis. I’m not pleased it’s happening nor am I bothered. Pre knowledge I would have helped them so much. Now I feel completely indifferent.

            You guys clearly have way more empathy. I can only feel it now for non-narcs. And even then it’s on a gradient according to their degree of empathy.

            Glad you like use of the word brilliantly AV, it’s definitely a compliment.

          37. Leigh says:

            Alexis, its funny, if it was my husband or mother going through a fuel crisis, I wouldn’t give a rats ass. I’d be glad they were suffering.

            The difference with workplace narc is I still get something out of that.

            My empathy bites me in the ass all the time. Its why I won’t let any new narcs in.

          38. Alexissmith2016 says:

            I’m pleased you don’t let any new narcs in Leigh. I understand it’s difficult to. I don’t really remember when exactly my feelings became so distinct I just know they did. But it took no effort in that regard. It just happened. I think the more I learned from hg and truly understood it, any feelings I had just simply dissipated and for all narcs.
            I guess it depends on our different empathic traits and the strength of them as to whether that happens or not.

          39. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Hey Leigh,

            I have a question. Please don’t answer if it’s too personal, I’ll understand x. Do you feel as if you owe workplace narc something? As in, perhaps he pulled you up when you were low / struggling, so now you feel that you can’t turn away whilst you suspect he is struggling?

          40. Leigh says:

            He has made me feels things in me that I didn’t know existed. I’m struggling with giving that up.

            There’s also a piece of me that wants to save him from the creature. Isn’t that a hoot!

          41. Eternity says:

            It sounds like you are going through so much right now. Please try not think about what he is doing ,his fuel crisis etc. Bottom line is he does not care about you or your mental state. Of course we are caring people and never wish anything bad to happen to anyone not even the worst enemy, but try to impose no contact. You are allowing him to text you that makes. you feel worse. I know you feel sorry for him, he is giving you pity plays and manipulated you so you can keep giving him Fuel, don’t do it Please. I know and completely understand it is hard buy try Leigh for your own well being you don’t want to get sick over someone that doesn’t give a rats ass over you. Sending you hugs my 💘

          42. NarcAngel says:

            If I recall correctly, you mentioned that you tried to do something about him being let go but that it was too late. I’m concerned that that will have tipped others to your care and concern for him, and that paired with your continuing to keep contact with him might jeopardize your employment. Especially given your position within the company. He’s a narcissist – he doesn’t need your help and furthermore – he will later fail to recognize it and deny that you ever did.

            I implore you go No Contact to save and protect yourself. He won’t be there for you if things go bad.

          43. Leigh says:

            NA, its funny you say that because I did think about that too. Its not unusual that I talk to employees after they leave. Often times, I have to help them with their benefits, 401k, unemployment, etc. I have been concerned if I have said anything that he can turn around against me. It gets blurry because I have to answer his questions about HR stuff but then he throws in how he’s gonna end it and I get sucked in again. What I end up telling him to stop talking like that and then change the subject back to the issue that needs to be resolved. The goal is definitely to go no contact and I should be able to do that once his termination is finalized.

          44. BC30 says:

            But do we *really* know he is in a fuel crisis? HG says they are rare. They lie. He had 70 people reporting to him, so he likely has a robust matrix.

            I ASSURE you that there are other IPSSs besides you who to whom he is crying his tale of woe, about how he’s been done wrong. They lie.

            They are all liars. Manipulators. He’s merely taking advantage of opportunity to pump you for fuel. All the sweeter since you thought you’d given him the brush off, yet he was able to come back.

            Go NC. Please. If you can’t do it, hand over your phone/laptop/passwords to a friend and have them block, delete, and change or lock you out of accounts as needed. ❤️❤️❤️

          45. Leigh says:

            Yes I know and I’m sure there are other sources in his fuel matrix. Just to clarify though, I’m a former intimate partner. I won’t go back there again. I know I have to stop making excuses and just cut the damn tie.

          46. NarcAngel says:


            Might you consider giving him a good reference as contributing to creating more victims in his new workplace in order to absolve yourself from any responsibility in doing so?

            He will victimize people there, and they have families too.

            Just a thought.

          47. Leigh says:

            Crap! I hadn’t thought of that. Thank you. I cant give him a bad so its either neutral or nothing. I almost think he’s not going to look for another job. I think he’s gonna live off his wife. They really are pathetic.

          48. Truthseeker6157 says:


            Thank you for answering, Sorry, I forgot to subscribe when I commented the other day, forgot where you were haha!

            I don’t think it’s a hoot x. You have learned that there is an emptiness that exists and you don’t like the thought of someone going through that. That’s totally understandable. I think we all tried to save them from something, you just understand more what it is.

            He can’t be fixed. He’ll get his fuel from somewhere if he needs it enough. People lose jobs every day, it’s unlikely this is enough to tip him into a fuel crisis anyway. You’re a good person who wants to help. Problem is the person you are trying to help isn’t a good person and will only take advantage.

            He’ll figure it out his fuel supply. Try to concentrate on looking after you and yours. People that will appreciate you and what you are trying to do for them Xx

          49. Leigh says:

            Thank you TS! You guys were all super supportive. Thank you everyone. It was just a little bit of a rough patch. Every day I’m feeling better.

            On another note, I saw on another post you say that we have the control to fuel them or not. I wanted to tell you thats what gives me the feeling of power. I decide if I want to fuel them or not. I think it’s a combination of my pride and power.

      2. BC30 says:

        Sharing here shows that you do want to break the tie, so I am sending you much strength and love! 💖💖💖

        1. Leigh says:

          Thank you! ❤❤❤

      3. Empath007 says:

        Perhaps try to see this as a positive thing. I’d be elated if my work narc was laid off.

        I agree with NA – you could compromise your career if you keep associating with him, he may be wounded – dig for information from you – and then consequently throw it back in your face.

        I understand the ups and downs and have kept it no secret I’ve experienced a wide range of emotion when it comes to my work narc.

        The other thing (just to play devils advocate here) is now that he doesn’t work for the company it may in fact… be easier to see him because you don’t share the office. I’d bet if you’d start seeing him again … you’d crash instantly and think “ok this is not what I need”.

        Like any addict sometimes hitting rock bottom is impertitive to recovery.

        Often I think we use narcissists as an escape from our own issues – much the same someone uses drugs or alcohol to escape. We think (and I’m speaking in general – not necessarily specific to you) the narcissist will fix what’s going on internally with us. But just like drugs and alcohol… we keep chasing the initial “high” (golden period) with no chance of achieving it again (although we may have glimpses).

        If you feel that could at all relate to you (I know it definitely relates to me). Perhaps try and figure out what exactly it is you are trying to escape
        From (your marriage, dullness of your routine, self loathing, low self esteem etc) and focus on changing that instead.

        If you need to hit rock bottom to start to see real change.. then see him again.. maybe that’s something you need in order to really get this isn’t for you.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          If you see hm again, you will only increase your emotional thinking, increasing the negative feelings and making it harder. You know that you are dealing with narcissist, therefore you obey the first golden rule of freedom, GOSO. It is you responsibility to take that action now you are fixed with that knowledge, if you do not, you will not move forward.

          1. Eternity says:

            Well stated HG, we took your knowledge and now we can use it to our advantage. Thank you

          2. Leigh says:

            Mr. Tudor, I have no intention of seeing him again. I’d rather stick a hot poker in my eye.

          3. HG Tudor says:


          4. Empath007 says:

            I agree. And while in GOSO I think we need to examine ourselves… take the time to heal parts of us that maybe need healing. I’ve been single for 3 years and other then pandemic stress… have been the most emotionally stable I’ve ever been in my whole life. I feel perfectly complete on my own and I honestly don’t have much interest in men (other then feeling a longing for intimacy/sex every now and then).

            I’ve longed to reach out to the narcissits to fill my boredom. Give me a high and escape the state of the world. But am glad I did not give in. Now that life is slowly becoming more “normal” again. I see I don’t need him. And that feelings are only temporary – and will pass.

            In time Leigh… in time you won’t feel this way anymore. It’s amazing he was laid off ! Now he has to seek out other new fuel sources. And he’ll be just fine.

        2. JB says:

          Empath007, spot on re using narcissists as an escape from our own issues! Although I’m not sure I agree about the idea of seeing him again to show oneself he is bad news..if the addiction is still lingering in the background, it won’t take long to fall again, in my opinion..

          1. Empath007 says:

            I agree JB. I was curious to see how she’d respond. Sometimes contiunally being told “you can’t have that” only makes a person want it more.

          2. JB says:

            Empath007, too true!

        3. Leigh says:

          Empath007, I won’t be intimate with him again. I don’t want to experience that pain again. No thank you, I’ll pass.

          Yes, you are right that he was an escape for me and he did help me escape the toxicity of my marriage. I ended up shooting myself in the foot there. He did make me feel things that I never felt before but I don’t think he can fix me. It was just nice to feel those things for once in my life. The sad part there was that it wasn’t real. I just need time to work through the process. Last week I was crying all day every day and this week I think I cried once. Each day it gets easier.

          I also want to just qualify why I decided to stay with my husband for now. Its because I can’t leave my children with him. If I left them there, I’m no better than the narcissist. I thought about taking them with me. By the way, they are young adults. But I don’t want to do that either. I want them out on there own so I can finally be out on my own too. Then I can begin to truly understand who I am. I promise I have a plan. It might not be a great one but it is a plan.

          1. Empath007 says:

            Atta girl Leigh ! See that ?- someone mentions “you could try again and see him again” and your automatic gut reaction is – hell no haha ! Both you and him will be OK. If you provide a reference stick to the facts “he worked here from this time to thisntime. His position was…” etc. No need to make it glowing. Just the facts. And you don’t need to provided him one at all.

            I don’t judge anyone for staying in a unhappy marriage ever. Even if it’s with a narcissist. Instead of thinking it’s weak… I actually think in a lot of cases staying in the marriage is wise. I know people would judge me for saying that. And that’s fine they can judge. But everyone’s situation is different and there are sometimes more important things in life then feeling loved – and feeling loved is usually a crock of shit anyways – especially if feeling loved is with a narcissist.

            Depending on the situation a narcissits can provide financial stabilty, a place where the spouse can be closer to their children etc.

            Sometimes (if the circumstances are manageable for a person) it’s better to stick with the devil you know then the one you don’t.

            So no judgment. You do what you need to do for you… and I don’t think any of us have to right to give you a hard time about it.

          2. Leigh says:

            Thank you Empath007. Its only a temporary solution. The goal is to GOSO. All in due time.

  2. Duchessbea says:

    HG, you sure know a lot about my kind. Are you sure you are not a closet Empath?

    1. leelasfuelstinks says:

      H.G. is a covert Empath 😂😂🤣🤣

      1. A Victor says:

        Lol, Leela! That’s great!

      2. BC30 says:

        Now, this might be true. 🤣🤣

      3. Duchessbea says:

        Love it.

  3. mollyb5 says:

    HG …are empathic traits on a scale ? Like lesser , midrange , greater ? Why aren’t they ? I’m sure the intelligence of the empath has also to do with how mature they are …and what life lessons they’ve learned or not .

    1. HG Tudor says:

      They are on a scale, see the Trait Detector Consultation.

  4. leelasfuelstinks says:

    Waaaaaaaaaaaaaah! I want more Savior traits! *throwing a tantrum* 😀 😉

    1. A Victor says:

      Why Leela?? You’re perfect as you are!

      1. leelasfuelstinks says:

        Because I wanna do so much more for a better world. So much injustice in this world. So many people suffering, people dying, children being abused, cruelty against animals! This planet is being destroyed by people of H.G.s kind. 🙁

        1. A Victor says:

          Oh, I see. Yes, the hurt in the world is overwhelming sometimes. Thank you for your answer, I was curious but this makes sense. Is it difficult to do this as a Carrier? Or is it not at the forefront of your mind as it is a Savior’s? I wish I understood more about the Savior aspect, partly why I am asking, I see the injustice but don’t “do” much about it. Though I did try to raise my children very much aware of such things and maybe that was my contribution, so to speak.

          1. leelasfuelstinks says:

            I stopped buying stuff from certain assholes! I could rant about the whole injustice, the whole damage they do to people. Decided to not buy their shit and not support the injustice there! Not supporting the suffering and death of other people. But that´s not enough! We could do more but many people got lazy and ignorant. They do not or do not want to see what is happening in this world!!

          2. A Victor says:

            I agree, many prefer to live in their ignorance. And, many are blinded to truth also.

          3. leelasfuelstinks says:


          4. A Victor says:

            😁 Me too!!! Pet peeve! Educate yourself people, care enough to do so. Drives me crazy!

          5. BC30 says:

            Breathe , babe, breathe! 😙

          6. leelasfuelstinks says:

            Pheeew, Aaaw! Pheeew, Aaaaw! 😂

          7. Leigh says:

            AV, you said on another post about your son, “I worry about him being abused by narcissists, he is a young man for sure, but soft, if that makes sense, and I worry about him being vulnerable.” That’s the savior trait. You want to protect & shield him from narcissism.

          8. A Victor says:

            Okay, thank you! That does make sense!

          9. Melmel says:

            AV – Raising your children is not just your contribution; it is heroic to do this, and succeed while remaining in the relationship! (which is pretty much impossible to avoid when you have children with them)

            You DID protect them from the narcissism and that is Saviour AND Super… Every move you made to perform this act for your children’s benefit, likely required some eroding of your emotional empathy for the narcissist, allowing your narcissistic traits to “shine” to raise a shield around them. This would have been difficult because you weren’t feeding the addiction and you were going contrary to your Empathic traits. This constant interaction with your narcissist and erosion of your emotional empathy would have caused your Emotional Thinking to be quite high, but you were able to overcome the ET for your narcissist with Empathy for your children, AND a corresponding action that likely felt odd or uncomfortable.

          10. A Victor says:

            Aw, thanks for the kind words. Raising my children was a blessing to me, not heroic in the least. You know how much we love our children, it makes it a joy.

            My ex has been gone for almost 11 years, virtually NC during that time. It became much easier once he was gone.

          11. leelasfuelstinks says:

            So. That is why I have very strong and radical political views. Decided to spare you all from them but I´m sure everybody can guess what they are 😉 🤭 This is by the way the reason why I thought that I have way more Savior traits than the ECD showed. Instead of a rant about this and that I take the empathic approach to explain why I have such strong views. 😊 It´s just another arena to heal and fix, at least try. Anyway, I´m here to encourage, help and study and not to discuss politics 😄

          12. A Victor says:

            Leela, I am with you on all of that. I wouldn’t guess your politics, they don’t make a difference to me. I don’t care where people fall add long as they have done so thoughtfully, really seeking knowledge and truth, and not only regarding politics but everything. I didn’t realize Savior was where the passion comes from, I suppose it makes some sense though. And it explains why it wears me out. I wholeheartedly agree especially with your last line. Those conversations are left to others.

          13. leelasfuelstinks says:

            Those discussions would be off-topic anyway and don´t belong here! 🙂 What I found extremely interesting that also Empaths can take one side or another and I´m 100 % whatever side an Empath takes, it´s done with good intentions, out of the desire to do good, to heal and fix, to protect and save. 🥰 At least I guessed that the passion comes from Savior, another reason why I almost fell from the couch, when EDC results came back 😂 But after analyzing all this and my own behavior: H.G. was, as always, right, correct and accurate! 👍

          14. A Victor says:

            Leela, I wonder if your passion comes from the super and the geyser. Mine likely comes from the savior and the super, a bit different expression of it between us but strong in both nonetheless.

        2. Leigh says:

          Its so interesting how it manifests differently in all of us. For me, I want to save one problem, person or issue at a time. Thinking about all the suffering is too overwhelming. I like to concentrate on one. I wonder if its because you’re majority Super Empath that you think about fixing the whole.

          1. leelasfuelstinks says:

            Good question, that could be the case. 🤔

          2. BC30 says:

            SO overwhelming!! I think you may be right about Leela too.

            When we went to hell in a hand basket, I decided that I could only take care of my duties in my field. I could not focus on other battles.

        3. BC30 says:

          It’s highly taxing!

          I suspect those who have significant Super have a good amount of Savior or Carrier; it seems required by definition.

          1. leelasfuelstinks says:

            Interesting aspect! 🤔 Makes sense as many Supers, Saviors and Carriers are ACONs.

          2. BC30 says:

            Really?! How do you know many of them are ACONS? Has it been discussed and I missed it?!

          3. leelasfuelstinks says:

            No, I read it somewhere. I think we haven´t had a deep discussion about it yet. I raised somewhere the question but we didn´t discuss it.

          4. A Victor says:

            Leela, I remember when you brought that up before but it might be difficult to discuss and honor the EDC protocol of confidentiality. It would be interesting though, could it be done through an anonymous poll?

          5. leelasfuelstinks says:

            OH YES! Good idea! But I think Carrier we can discuss because H.G. has written that in an article that Carriers are mostly ACONs.

          6. A Victor says:

            This is interesting as I am an ACON. I wonder why it is so.

          7. leelasfuelstinks says:

            Me too. H.G. wrote also an article about Carrier empaths where he wrote that many Carriers are ACONs.

          8. BC30 says:

            Which article?

          9. A Victor says:

            Do you know which article? I am very interested in that. I have been wondering about the origin, if Carrier is learned, for some people anyway, but some cadres we’re born with. Now that I’m beginning to understand my majority cadre, I think I can see how it manifested in me even at a very young age, but never toward my parents. But I think my Carrier may have developed as a result of my home, growing up with two narcissists, and being burdened by adult things too early.

          10. Alexissmith2016 says:

            Oooh I’d like to read that again too. @K do you know where it is?

        4. Alexissmith2016 says:

          It’s interesting, I would have thought if you’re a carrier, you’d also have a strong saviour trait too. I get the saviour without carrier but it’s more difficult for me to understand the other way round?

          1. leelasfuelstinks says:

            I´m mostly, overwhelmingly Carrier, Savior is only a small part. I may carry a lot but in certain situation I don´t carry! I save! Because certain things like bullying are just NO GO! 😖 Maybe this way?

          2. BC30 says:

            It manifests in all areas of life and won’t be the same all the time, so I think if you go back and look at the initial ED materials, there are many scenarios.

          3. leelasfuelstinks says:

            I´m sure there are. Will try to remember those situations.

          4. A Victor says:

            I relistened to my EDC yesterday and heard several “new” things, it was very interesting. It happens with all of HG’s material, the more I learn, the more I get from each piece.

          5. A Victor says:

            Ah, and I am more likely to stop carrying than to stop wanting to save someone. I recognize at times that the most effective way to help someone be better is to stop carrying for them. These discussions are so beneficial toward fleshing out the meaning of these things. Carrier I feel like is very easy to identify. Savior, I think, isn’t as visually noticeable maybe.

          6. WhoCares says:

            Carrier empath here, but zero Saviour traits.

      2. leelasfuelstinks says:

        Okay: When it comes to handle difficult people, difficult situation, very emotional situation, when it comes to stay calm and practically solve the problem I´m the women to go! 😎🦾

        1. A Victor says:

          Oh, okay, this is a different aspect that I didn’t realize, though you and I have discussed it before. Thank you, maybe this time, said this way, it will stick in my understanding more. I hate emotion from others but maybe that’s because my emotional empathy has been stressed for so long. It is starting to calm down and I do seem to have more resource for handling such. I like your emoticons here, very visual!

          1. BC30 says:

            Are you Magnet? I would think that might be taxing, feeling emotional empathy if there is nothing else to absorb the emotion. Only one person on the blog has shared that they are more than significant Magnet.

          2. A Victor says:

            Not one percent. I wish I had a little, it might make me more receptive to people. I think empath’s in general must attract people, I do anyway, but then I’m always trying to avoid them.

          3. BC30 says:

            I’m Magnet, and I’ve realized how it manifests for me is SECRETS. People feel 100% confessing their “sins” to me or sharing secret truths. Several people “came out of the closet” (sexuality and gender identity) to me before anyone else.

          4. A Victor says:

            I have a daughter like that, she’s in healthcare and is one of the most compassionate people I’ve ever met. I’m trying to get her to do the EDC but so far unsuccessfully.

    2. Alexissmith2016 says:

      not always a good trait and I don’t always use as described, for example if I saw someone shoplifting I would be thinking perhaps this person can’t afford it so i certainly wouldn’t deter them from doing so, at least not if it was a big corporate, different if it’s a small business. Still moral just perhaps not a legal sort of moral. On the other hand if I witnessed someone being bullied at work, depending on the circumstances I may pull someone up on it, but that can always be embarrassing for the person. So more than likely I would be surreptitious about it. I would and have done all I can to turn things around and boost that persons popularity (the victim) whilst damaging the other persons. To my detriment and unknowingly I’ve helped out a few cerebral type narcs in this way. Ugh. No fucking more!

      1. leelasfuelstinks says:

        Okay, when I see someone who gets bullied I step in too. I step in by talking and trying to solve the conflict, trying to find a peaceful solution for everybody. I try to find out why this is happening and try to offer a solution which stops the bullying, listening to both sides and making suggestions how they could peacefully interact with each other in the future. Guess thats a Savoir-Carrier-mish-mash-approach. 😁

        1. BC30 says:

          Hahahaha mish mash. The few times I have enacted justice against a bully they never found out. You have to wait until the time is right. Unless they are causing immediate physical harm, I wait it out.

          1. leelasfuelstinks says:

            Total mish-mash! 😂 I don´t jump in immediately like a Savior would do, I first plan and think about it, analzye, and then, when I found the right solution, I step in for a serious talk.

      2. A Victor says:

        Alexissmith, I have been considering this comment. I agree that the thought of the thief needing to eat comes to my mind but I still would have trouble with the idea of not stopping the crime. But most likely, if I thought they really couldn’t afford a loaf of bread, I’d just pay for it for them, which would solve my moral dilemma and also allow them to eat. Seriously, this took me 2 days to think through!!

  5. psychologyandworldaffairs says:

    Brings back old memories of a friend. She said she had been on over 30 dog walking dates – before deciding on two dog walking friends. I recognise now she had picked out a Saviour Super Empath and myself the Saviour Contagion Empath. We were both there on a pack walk, when she created a drama with another lady about her dog.

    Whilst the Saviour Super Empath, immediately jumped in, I could feel the upset the target felt and sense of victimisation resulting. I refused to take sides, or get involved – I could see from both aspects. I talked to the Saviour Super Empath – who did apologise to the lady – who unfortunately was not in a state of mind to accept.

    My unwillingness not to unquestioningly take her side, made her feel betrayed. I also realise this aspect of feeling another’s emotions and understanding their view points must have annoyed my Narc ex no end.

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