The Narcissist and Feelings



Feelings are an unnecessary burden and thankfully I have been relieved of many of them, being left only with those which are deemed necessary to enable me to pursue the harvesting of fuel. Feelings blur and weaken. How many times have you heard your alarm go off in the morning and you have rolled over feeling like you do not want to get up? Many times I should imagine. That feeling of apprehension about what the day holds for you, despondency at what has happened to you and dread about what you have to do weakens you and holds you back.

You spend much of your life in the pursuit of this notion of happiness but are you ever truly happy? Do you look at what you have and wish you had more? Do you look at other people around you and imagine how happy they must be and you wish that you were more like them? All you achieve is bitterness. Perhaps you do feel happy but as the empath that you are you see those who you regard as less happy than you and you wish that they could be more like you.

All you achieve is vanity. You spend so much of your time seeking to be happy and then you worry about whether it is fleeting in nature. You express concern that you just want to be happy and spend more and more time trying to achieve this state of nirvana. You suffer from feeling sadness which leads to paralysis and indecision. You feel frustrated which sucks up your energy and leaves you feeling spent. You take pride in your ability to feel and to be able to feel on behalf of others yet all you are doing is allowing yourself to be burdened.

Why bother pursuing those feelings which are regarded as positive, such as joy, happiness and elation? Is the effort truly worth it when you get there only for it to be a fleeting moment which then casts you into despondency? What was the point of that? Why allow yourself to be mired in upset, misery and dejection? You achieve nothing as you slowly sink into a quagmire of such negativity. Your feelings deceive you, press down on you and above all else allow us to manipulate you. It is because you feel this array of emotions that you provide us with emotional reactions. Of course you know that these emotional reactions create my fuel. Your feelings are to blame.

I never acquired these feelings. This is because the pursuit of fuel cannot be distracted by these cumbersome emotions. They serve no purpose and thus were never developed. I am built for the acquisition of fuel and nothing else. I am an efficient design, single-minded and driven. All excess baggage was not jettisoned, it was never stowed on board to begin with. I am not wholly without feelings. I have been developed in a way to allow certain feelings, those that aid my purpose, to come to the fore.

I feel fury which ensures that I can exert control over other people and thus extract fuel from them. I feel envy which drives me on to strip away those traits from other people which I need to create my construct. If I felt no envy, I would not want these characteristics – thus this feeling serves a purpose. There is no superfluous feeling connected with me. I feel jealousy which again causes me to strive to better that person by lauding my own achievements and prompting a reaction which garners positive fuel or by berating the person of whom I am jealous and thus I harvest negative fuel.

I feel hatred. This allows me to see everything as it truly is. Hatred hones and brings into sharp focus the reality of this cruel world and thus I am better able to navigate my way through it. Hatred is visceral, it is not fluffy or amorphous. It does not cloud or blur. It is direct, straight to the point and electrifying in its capacity to allow me to always go forward.

All of these feelings and ones of a similar nature have been fashioned around me to assist me in my quest for fuel. Each one discharges a method of enabling me to gather fuel so that I can feel the ultimate emotion.

My pursuit of fuel is predicated on the use of these various emotions with the sole purpose of allowing me to feel that emotion which I prize above all others.

I feel powerful.

I am powerful.

82 thoughts on “The Narcissist and Feelings

  1. Emextraordinaire says:

    Yes, to provoke a response…if they do not get our adoring and please you attention…then let’s shake it up a bit and get that flight or fight response…which they may even relish more!?!

  2. Whitney says:

    Brilliant God, how do you judge people with such clarity? I want to be more like you

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you Whitney.

      1. It is the way I have been created.
      2. It is also based on my intelligence.
      3. I must also be able to do this because of what I do professionally.

      This triumvirate makes me both especially effective and dangerous.

      1. Asp Emp says:

        HG, I liked the way you used the word ‘triumvirate’ (I had to look up it’s meaning). I also considered the different perceptions of the word, including the various ‘masks’ you ‘wear’ for the various ‘roles’ within humanity, and, in my view, none of these are fake.

  3. Whitney says:

    Lovely God, why are your works so poetic if this is all you feel.

    1. HG Tudor says:


  4. Alexissmith2016 says:

    HG, as N are unable to self reflect (save the greater and ultra), would it be correct to assume that if they’ve been up for sexual harassment once and whether found innocent or guilty they would continue to sexually harass people? In essence they cannot see they’ve done anything wrong?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      If the pursuit of the prime aims dictated continuing with such behaviour would achieve them, then yes.

      1. Alexissmith2016 says:

        Aaagggh wow so interesting. Thank you very much.

    2. A Victor says:

      Same with child abuse or spousal abuse I suppose also.

      1. Alexissmith2016 says:

        I agree AV but the vast majority of sexual harassment goes under the radar, well when mids are involved. And yet it is oh so widespread.

      2. Violetta says:

        I’m STILL having trouble passing out the difference between negative fuel and sadism. People who beat up their families enjoy inflicting pain, don’t they? The significant other who ghosts you instead of saying, “I don’t feel the way I used to and I want to break up,” and enjoys thinking about you wondering and worrying–how is this not sadism?

        1. A Victor says:

          I wonder if the difference lies in the wording, and the sensation, one being fuel, not registering as enjoyable necessarily but necessary for survival. The other being enjoyment, feeling good about what they’re causing, which could also be a need but with a different effect in them. And I think the “need” for the enjoyment is easier to resist, for a time anyway, than the need for fuel. As in the “Burn, Burn Just for Me” video when HG says he held off using the lighter fluid early knowing that later it would bring so much more enjoyment.

          1. A Victor says:

            I had another thought after sending this comment, psychopaths don’t need fuel, so they would do it purely for the satisfaction, whatever that means to them, that they drive from it. Narcissists don’t need to hurt to get fuel, but they don’t care if they do, so inflicting the pain is not their motivating factor, they don’t receive the same type of “satisfaction” from it, just knowing they hurt someone. I think this is somewhat getting sorted out in my mind…

          2. Violetta says:

            Thanks to all of you for your explanations. This is a tough one for me, because my violent impulses are towards authority figures. I can imagine (or I have experienced) exasperatiion with a child or animal, but I don’t get the same raw rage I get for adults who try to bully or manipulate me, precisely because the easy victims don’t have much real power.

        2. Alexissmith2016 says:

          My understanding is that Negative fuel (except for the greater) isn’t drawn intentionally. They’ve just grown tired of you or in the case of someone beating on their wife and kids it’s an automatic response to a threat to their control. They aren’t doing it to feel pleasure in hurting that person more to stabilise their inner being.

          Like the school bully will name call etc to make themselves feel powerful. It’s not sadistic it just stabilises their own feeling of worth by generating power and allowing them to feel in control. That’s how I understand it to be.

        3. Witch says:


          I think the difference is the need to achieve control vs enjoying inflicting pain plus the need to achieve control.
          A narcissist who is violent and will box you on impulse in order to try and achieve control because it’s a manipulation that works vs someone like Jack the Ripper who relishes in inflicting pain – who is more calculated about it, takes their time with the torture, there might be partly a sexual response to it

    3. CandaceMarie says:

      From my experience yes. Near the end of the relationship with my ex narcissist I found out he had been previously arrested for domestic violence including rape. He had raped me. He never hit me but who knows what would have happened if I would have stayed with him.
      He denied ever doing anything wrong and claimed he was found innocent.

  5. BC30 says:

    Sometimes it fucking suuuuuucks!! I totally get why narcs don’t develop the feeling they are missing.
    I was at the airport last week ✈️ and *I* was crying just watching other people joyously reunite. Complete strangers and I’m crying. Good grief.

    1. A Victor says:

      BC30, it is interesting what can bring our empathy out sometimes. Surprising too.

      1. Duchessbea says:

        It’s a beautiful feeling.

    2. Alexissmith2016 says:

      Awww that’s so lovely BC x

  6. A Victor says:

    I have been absolutely cheated out of decades of proper use of my emotions! This just hit me! I stuffed them as a child, as protection. And then my ex’s stole them, they could see them and get fuel from them, but I didn’t even know the emotions were happening usually, all the time giving them what they wanted! Okay, today I am a little angry at all my narcs, this is a big thing to have stolen! I am thankful that I have the capacity to have them come back and use and feel them now, unlike narcs, so it is still, from my perspective, a better place to be. But I had not realized the thievery of it until today, not from this angle anyway.

    1. Asp Emp says:

      AV, RE: your first sentence, it is probably true for us all…….yet I would suggest that we were not ‘cheated’, we were taught wrong before we ‘conditioned’ ourselves through our so-called “carer(s)” to become how we did. Then having to ‘re-program’ ourselves, and realising that we were not given the opportunity to do (as children) = part of the ‘mourning’ process of our ‘reality’. And ‘mourning’, in some way, for the partial loss of our ‘inner’ child that can never be ‘reclaimed’. Understandably, some anger may result from some people.

      1. A Victor says:

        Yes, I am glad for the re-programming part, the ability to do so. I suppose some mourning is allowed, maybe even normal. I need to let it go, again, it is the only way to move forward I think. Thank you!

        1. Asp Emp says:

          AV, letting go is the only way you can liberate yourself from the past. See it as a ‘bereavement’ process of some kind, not quite the same, but it is similar.

          1. A Victor says:

            Another whole process, layer to the onion. Hope I get to the center soon.

            Thank you Asp Emp.

          2. Joa says:

            Asp Emp, I love you! 🙂

            “Mourning” – yes!!! I have called and felt it many times. Mourning. I said goodbye, to what I had to say goodbye to, what had to go.

            I only left the good ones. In the end, SOMETHING had to stay and “hold” me 🙂

          3. Asp Emp says:

            Joa, oh, thank you 🙂 I am glad you can see it in a similar way. I know what you mean in relation to ‘hold’ me – like a hug, or a ‘comfort’ blanket, at the end of the day, a loss is a loss. In my view, it is ok to remember those that did not hurt you ie my grandmother, or my father, with fondness and love 🙂

          4. Joa says:

            Asp Emp, I can remember at smile and tenderness people who hurt me. I collect and cherish all the beautiful and good moments with them, like jewels. The bad ones are buried (but I remember them). I separate it.

            Just like you praise and appreciate HG – I can see the good and worthwhile sides of all the narcissists in my life.

            Which does not mean that I do not notice evil, meanness, deception, maniacal grandeur, unjustified contempt, cunning, weakness – and that I accept it.

            I expect proper behavior in my presence. I know they lie, pretend and conceal the things they do behind my back.

          5. Asp Emp says:

            Joa, thank you for your reply. Yes, it is good to cherish the good and these can get buried under the bad until one has ‘removed’ the bad and bring up the good once again.

            HG is a precious ‘jewel’ all on his own.

            “maniacal grandeur” – those words made me laugh.

            Yes, we do not have to accept being treated badly – I suppose it is a matter of how we handle it and not through our ET. We can adopt (using HG’s work and apply our education – in the right way) – the 3 Assertions of Control – ie directly = Empath Grenade; indirectly = Narc Bomb; withdrawal = doing / saying nothing at all and walking away (I’ll be bollocked for saying this ;-)). This mischievous empath is at it again ;-).

            You saying “worthwhile sides” – yes, I agree. Otherwise I would not have learned what I needed to do and achieve what I have done.

            Albert Enstein “If you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change”.

      2. A Victor says:

        Also, yes, possibly true for all who have been involved with a narcissists, ACONs anyway for sure.

    2. Alexissmith2016 says:

      It is thievery AV. I hardly ever cry any more but my emotions can be pretty strong on either end of the scale.

      I remember as a child watching sad films ans absolutely choking on the tears. I remember one time in particular a huge lump in ky throat and I could feel the tears building for a tsunami I held a cushion to my face so my sister and her friends couldn’t see because my sister would be sure to mock me in front of them. But this particular film was so powerful I just couldn’t hold it back.

      My sister never ever cried as a child unless it was something which had threatened her control and that rarely happened as she was pretty skilled even then haha

      In recent years when we’ve been to a funeral together she absolutely forces some tears to her eyes and you can visibly see how hard she tries to produce them. They never stream or roll just sit in her eyes and even then only the smallest amount. once there she makes eye contact with as many people as she possibly can hahah

      It’s definitely okay to grieve for your emotions AV it’s an important part of who we are.

      1. A Victor says:

        Alexissmith, your comment brought tears to my eyes. I didn’t expect anyone to understand so completely. I remember those very deep, strong emotions in different situations as a child, those ones where to show them would make me vulnerable. I remember stuffing them, not allowing myself to feel them, almost forcing myself to go numb. What a sad thing. And I remember watching as my sister, 5 years younger, tried to survive, as she lost her smile and became bitter and controlling. I watched my mother do this to her, helpless to stop it. It was one of the painful situations, I couldn’t help her, or my brother. I chin could only stuff those feelings. Thank you for sharing Alexissmith, for letting me know it’s okay and it’s normal. I don’t know how I will sort it out yet but at least it is there now, in my awareness, so I can.

        1. Alexissmith2016 says:

          Awww it is perfectly normal AV. I read your comment on another article re feeling angry too. This made me sad for you, it can be all consuming at times. I was so so angry from just pre teen until about 10 years ago. I somehow managed to distance myself from the anger and was dutiful to my mother without being wrapped up in any emotions towards her. I don’t believe she was an N but she was certainly very unwell. The anger became less and less until it has now completely gone and has for a few years.

          I’m sorry you couldn’t save your siblings, but you could well have destroyed yourself trying so I’m glad you saved yourself from becoming an N. You’re a lovely, lovely person.

          1. A Victor says:

            Thank you for your kind words Alexissmith. As with many other emotions/understanding here, it comes and goes in waves. Once I have time to really think it through, now that I see it this way, it will become easier. The “dutiful” aspect is there for me now, but I grind my jaw as I do anything for her, maybe thinking this through will help this aspect also. It is encouraging to know it can dissipate. I don’t like the feelings I’m having, so negative, so strong. It is scary sometimes, so overwhelming. I will hang onto your words that it will go and focus on that as I go through it. Thank you.

      2. Joa says:

        Alexis Smith 2016, I like the phrase “huge lump in throat”. So it is. I call it “dumpling” (there is no correct term in English…).

        I can still feel it to this day, but I can control my tears and distract myself.

        As a child, I was lucky that my sister and I cried together. Even in an ordinary nature film, where an animal was killed (I turned my head not to see). On many fairy tales and books. I calmed down faster as I was older and started to comfort my sister (she is too sensitive).

        Tears. I like them. But I rarely allow myself. Idon’t like feeling regret for myself.

        1. Alexissmith2016 says:

          Joa, that’s so sweet that you and your sister cried together. Awww I love that.

          Im not a fan of nature programmes because I don’t want to see poor little animals being mauled. I love David Attenborough though (I hope he’s not an N), his voice is just so soft. I’d love him to read me a bedtime story – in a completely no sexual way of course.

        2. A Victor says:

          Hi Joa, I did not cry before narcsite. My children were horrified if I did, they saw it happen so seldom. Since being here, there are times it has been uncontrollable, happening in the oddest places at the most inappropriate times on occasion. It is good that I work from home, so that wasn’t frequent. And, it has slowed now, I can control it mostly and it’s usually triggered by something that I am aware of now, so it is getting easier. Many tears to make up for all the tears I should’ve shed over the rest of my life that has gone by already. Many tears. But it has been cleansing for me, necessary. And now my children aren’t surprised, they are realizing I am human. 😊

    3. BC30 says:

      I was thinking about this today. What if I hadn’t met #2? Where would I be? I don’t know. The only reason I “regret” wasting time with him is because I *THINK* I would be happier now or feel better now, but that’s not true.

      How I feel is a result of my thoughts.

      What I *DO* know is that I’ve been weaponized and take no shit and no prisoners. I’m so much more POWERFUL for having experienced all my experiences, including those with the narcs.

      1. A Victor says:

        BC30, I have the same gratitude, I just wish it wouldn’t have been so much of my life. I wish I could use it to spare others the same, otherwise it almost feels like a waste for me just to learn it now. But I am still grateful.

    4. FYC says:

      Hello A Victor, I empathize with your loss and frustration, but you are no victim. Have you been subjected to abuse and trauma resulted? Yes. But to stay in a victim mindset only exacerbates the trauma. Instead, I encourage you to seize this wonderful opportunity to delve deeper into your soul/spirit and explore your feelings without judgement. Simply permit yourself to wade into them and observe them–much like wading into the ocean. Feel the temperature. The surge of the tide. How you feel as you wade deeper (still in control, yet free to explore). Time is truly irrelevant. You have the same hours in a day to explore your feelings as you ever have. The past is but a memory. What is important is your future. Let the past go. Remember what you have learned and arm yourself with your KTN knowledge. Then set about to explore. You have an entirely new life to live. It starts now. I know once you do you will have no regrets. Wishing you the very best.

      1. A Victor says:

        Aw, that is such a nice word picture! Thank you FYC! I do dabble in feeling them, honestly, it scares the crap out of me! So I can only do so much at a time. I am still trying to “feel” when they happen, recognize it as such, you know? But, I think the more I do, and the more comfortable I get, it will become easier. I will try to “wade”, the thought of doing that makes me gag a little right now, but I will aim for it at some point. Thank you for the encouragement, I am not a victim! You are absolutely right! It’s kind of odd, I didn’t have feelings but I didn’t have logic either. How was I living?? 🤣

        1. FYC says:

          A Victor, I believe you always have all of the above. You simply created distance from that which triggers distress. Feelings are neither right or wrong, they simply provide insight and emphasis to our experiences. However, when feelings trigger our fears, we create distance / deactivate to cope. Unresolved feelings are stored (both in the mind and body). When we sense our feelings are too much or they trigger a fear, we create a firewall of protection so as to avoid those feelings (yet they remain intact behind the firewall).

          The problem with a firewall approach is feelings are meant to be felt. If repressed, we pay then price for what we deny. I encourage you to take all the time you need to explore behind the firewall and only to the degree you feel safe. I agree, it will get easier and become more natural and edifying as you go. As for logic, we all adopt faulty logic out of fear. So fact-find you fears so they cannot derail you. Most of all, be kind to you and do not judge yourself. We all figure things out as we go. The discovery never stops. Enjoy!

    5. Leigh says:

      Hi AV, I think the anger is normal. Anger is part of the grieving process and I believe we have to go through a grieving process to move forward. We have to get to a point of acceptance. I don’t mean that I’ve accepted my parents’ behavior towards me because I don’t. I just mean that I’ve accepted that this is who they are and there is nothing I can do to change that, so I’ve let the anger go. I also want to say that just because the anger is gone, doesn’t mean I forgive them. That would mean I accept their behavior. I don’t and I never will accept their behavior. What I have accepted is that I can’t change their behavior so their isn’t any point to be angry about it anymore. With all of that said, you are in a very different situation then me. My father is passed and I only speak with my mother once or twice a month and its a five minute phone conversation. You are still knee deep in with your mom so it may take a little longer.

      1. A Victor says:

        Thank you Leigh, you are right, I appreciate the encouragement and the separation between them, forgiveness, anger, all of it. Great food for thought for me, thank you.

  7. voxsusana says:

    Feelings. As an empath, I am the perfect source of fuel with so much feeling brewing beneath the surface. The first time my narc met me he envied me and I became a target. Then the plan was unconsciously hatched to take me down a peg. I have so much to learn.

  8. Joa says:

    Oh yes! Every moment of happiness is worth paying for later.

    I remember and keep them all, no matter how bad it was afterwards.

    I am a happy moment catcher. I love them 🙂

    If happiness lasted all the time – it wouldn’t be happiness, it would become ordinary and commonplace, right? A break, longer or shorter, is inevitable and necessary.

  9. k mac says:

    I felt dead inside. The Narcissist made me feel alive again. Resurrected only to murdered over and over.. Narcissism is only bad if you’re not the Narcissist. What I would give to be free of emotion. If happiness is the absence of pain I have not felt happiness.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      But we do have emotions.

      1. Freedom says:

        only negative emotions

      2. k mac says:

        Not the yucky ones. Only ones that serve you well. Sometimes I don’t even feel in control of myself. I’m governed by waves of emotions that can capsize me without warning. It’s very frustrating.

      3. Pamela Swain says:

        You’ve been warned.

      4. Freedom says:

        HG, could you please answer a question? It is possible to develop the disorder in adolescence, I’m sure that in childhood this person had empathy, but at 13 years old the mother abandoned her and she stayed with the the grandmother and uncle Narcissists for 4 years, then the mother came back, and the mother was also a victim of both, I will be grateful if you answer

        1. HG Tudor says:

          No, it is formed prior to adolescence.

          1. Freedom says:

            thank you, i won’t praise you because you already know it’s really amazing 😁

          2. BC30 says:

            I have hope my nephew is not a narcissist. I watch him like a hawk–but he is soooo quiet. Always in the background, waiting, watching, silent. He just doesn’t fit.

          3. HG Tudor says:

            Maybe he cannot get a word in edgeways amongst the motormouths.

          4. BC30 says:

            How does being raised among many empaths affect a narcissist? I am fairly sure one of my nephews is a narcissist, inherited from the other side of the family.

            Since coming to live with our side of the family he’s been constantly surrounded by many, many empaths. Constantly. Surely, we have many different schools and cadres in my family.

            I would think he’s learning how to most efficiently draw fuel from each school/cadre.

            It’s unsettling the way he watches us. We’ll love him forever regardless.

          5. HG Tudor says:

            Feeding time at the zoo.

          6. BC30 says:

            I hope one day you answer this question in a serious manner. His actions and demeanor often remind me of your Cookie Jar story. Of course, I only began to notice after finding Narcsite.

            I assure you there is no shortage of NISS Fuel whatsoever.

          7. Leigh says:

            BC30 says, “How does being raised among many empaths affect a narcissist?” I love this question. I hope Mr. Tudor answers it too. I also wonder if having that nasty little gene is a larger contributing factor than the lack of control environment?

            How old is your nephew? Is he still young enough that you might be able to intervene and stop the narcissism from forming?

          8. Witch says:

            “ I have hope my nephew is not a narcissist. I watch him like a hawk–but he is soooo quiet. Always in the background, waiting, watching, silent. He just doesn’t fit.”

            My nephew butts in all the time 🤣 he’s hyperactive
            When he was even younger he would put his hands up and say “GIRLS! GIRLS!” To draw attention back onto him.
            He’s the only child so unless he’s at school or at the playground he doesn’t have any other children to play with and he can’t sit still or stay quiet for very long.
            I was very quiet as a child and happy to play by myself.

    2. Pamela Swain says:

      That’s a joke coming from you.

    3. FYC says:

      Hello K Mac, I would suggest you are not dead inside, but rather, coping/protecting yourself from the trauma you are experiencing. Please consider looking into CPTSD assistance.

      Scientists have studied and confirmed that we are feeling beings that also think, versus the commonly held belief that we are thinking beings that also feel.

      Our feelings are meant to guide us. We empaths find difficulty in sorting out the breadth of feelings we encounter as we can easily take on the feelings of others in addition to our own wealth of feelings. Feeling are neither right or wrong, they are a pathway for our unconscious to inform our conscious mind.

      The reason Ns reject feelings other than those HG lists is largely due to the vulnerability they require to be felt. Narcissism is defense mechanism. Ns instinctively defend against any vulnerability to protect the ego (constructed false self with which they identify), because the true self (all they truly felt/feel) was rejected largely due to some form of neglect or abuse that caused the developing mind to perceive their true self as the “problem” so they cope by creating distance (some say a wall of defense) from that “unacceptable” self.

      I would also suggest that happiness is not the absence of pain. It is the acceptance of all you find gratitude in, even in the presence of pain. They are not actually mutually exclusive, but often exist at the same time. The Buddhist view is that happiness/pleasure can only exist because there is sorrow/pain–balanced opposing forces. The key is how we react to the events that bring either. If you do not lose yourself to the pleasure, you will not lose yourself to the pain. You see each for what it brings and act accordingly. The key is in finding your own balance.

      Please be very kind to yourself. Your trauma is real and valid. I can feel the pain and loss in your words. But do not give up or give in. You deserve to be your own best friend (the same person you caught a glimpse of through the N’s view of you during idealization/golden period). You are worthy of real love and peace and I hope you give yourself both and find someone who possesses the same to share them with you.

      1. Asp Emp says:

        FYC, a really thoughtful comment. Thank you for sharing that.

      2. k mac says:

        Thank you FYC for the very kind and thoughtful answer. You are absolutely right. I have been diagnosed with cptsd and I’m being treated by my own good doctors lol. What narcissist give us just might be what we waited our entire lives to feel only to have it ripped from us again.

        1. FYC says:

          K Mac, You are most welcome. I am glad you are addressing your cptsd. I recommend the book “Healing Your Lost Inner Child” by Robert Jackman audio version. This provides a very empathetic understanding of the trauma and complex post traumatic stress we experience and how to heal your inner self from within and without.

          The narcissist can only mirror for you the view of yourself you longed to share. You will always possess this. It cannot be lost or removed. The hope you felt and the loving feelings this stirred during the golden period were a gift to you both (for you the feeling of love, for the narcissist the feeling of fuel) in the moment. Of course it cannot last, but I would suggest a different view. Though devaluation and disengagement are very painful, what you saw in the golden period remains a gift to you. You still are that person. You still have all that love to give to someone who will truly value it and share their own. So in a way, have gratitude for this fact and even for the pain that followed. If not for the pain, we would not know what we do not want. We would not be here at KTN and therefore possibly never know what happened and why. We can’t heal another no matter how much we love. But we can accept both. You are now free to heal and renew your spirit and to have all you long for. Just take your time. KTN is an invaluable resource that will help you greatly to avoid such pain in the future. I wish you the very best as you go forward.

          1. k mac says:

            Yes FYC I have read this awesome book! The body keeps the score is another one that I’ve really loved as well. Thank you for your kindness and insight. 😘

          2. FYC says:

            Hi K Mac, Yes, The Body Keeps Score is a very good one. Who knew our emotions could be stored in the body? Thanks so much for your kindness!

      3. Joa says:

        FYC, your comment is wonderful! Like a balm for the soul. Hope K Mac helped (I keep my fingers crossed for you!).

        What you wrote about happiness. Awesome! It touched me a lot. I identify with it 100%.

        It’s great to read these comments! The world becomes even more beautiful!
        Thank you! 🙂

        1. k mac says:

          Agree 💯

        2. FYC says:

          Thank you very much for your heart moving compliment, Joa. I am very glad you found it useful.

      4. Contagious says:

        I wonder if Empaths “feel others” why they get with narcs? Do we know instinctively but fool ourselves? Some narcs are obvious and you avoid. It’s cold and empty and feels like a judgment waiting to happen or a predator. Others obviously slip through our sensitivities…why?

        1. A Victor says:

          For me it’s because it makes me feel alive. It’s actually my addiction that is alive, that “feels like home” sensation. So, I have to somehow make my “feeling alive” not tied to that. I am not sure if that is possible.

          1. Empath007 says:

            Yes ! Feeling “alive” absolutely.

        2. Empath007 says:

          For me it was partly because I had no idea I was an empath – and no idea what a narcissist really was (at the time). My instincts of people pleasing, saving, love devotee etc could all be achieved with the narcissits as he would be the best “fit” to use and abuse these traits. Then add in what is an inherent addiction and it’s the perfect formula for trouble.

          I did very much “feel” something was off… pretty much from the beginning,
          However, this narc could see inside my soul – he knew exactly what to say to me for me to succomb to his advances… and like a moth to a flame the empath/narcissits dance began.

          I had had encounters with other narcs before … but no one knew how to get to me like this one. I think that’s why some slip through our sensitivities- we want to believe the delicious lies. Others we are perhaps not attracted to sexually, or we work with them and they are the annoying coworker… so it’s easier to spot and evade.

          1. A Victor says:

            “why some slip through our sensitivities- we want to believe the delicious lies.”. You put this perfectly, it is why trying again is still so frightening.

        3. FYC says:

          Hello Contagious, it seems empaths are drawn to Ns for a few reasons. 1) We feel what lies beneath–meaning, Ns have an array of emotions for themselves, including self empathy, but lack the same breadth of feelings for others. When combined with a golden period, we believe the feelings we sense are for us as well, but unfortunately this is not correct, just an illusion. 2) We feel their deep wounds and want to heal/fix them. 3) We perceive a challenge and mistakingly feel it can be met or a successful outcome is possible, but the N plays a zero sum game. 4) We are blinded by their facade (charm, good looks, personality, intelligence, success, etc.) and do not take the time to see their other traits surface (N traits). 5) We are drawn to what feels familiar (for those raised by one or more N parents) and seek to create a different outcome. I am sure there are many more reasons.

          1. k mac says:

            Yes yes yes FYC! You’ve said it perfectly!

          2. Contagious says:

            Yes I agree on a cognitive level. But as a contagion we feel others. We know them. If a narc is empty why not feel this versus the need. With antisocial, I peg them more often. There is this void or disconnect. You realize they don’t have range. For example they could be in the most beautiful location, or “ in love” but it’s flat. No joy sensed. It’s a lack of normal” happy arousal.” Yet harder to grasp with a narc. Maybe they mirror better? Thank you for your time and wisdom.

          3. FYC says:


            I have a small percentage of contagion I do feel others feelings strongly. But I would say that when I am in the presence of a N or APD, how I experience this is not intellectual, it is emotional. I feel a certain gravity by way of the absence of their lack of empathy. So pre-HG, I would attempt to provide what I thought was missing. In so doing, I was imposing my values (love, connection and the like) upon someone that seeks to avoid the same at all costs as a means of survival. Other reasons I have already stated. There are also psychological influences at play that drive empaths into such relationships (many coping mechanisms such as denial but the list is very long, confirmation bias, previous trauma bonds, low self esteem, and more).

            Post and packages that address some of the driving factors involved include:


            More importantly, how do you experience this for yourself? What do you feel has contributed to your engagement with N/APD individuals?


            Thank you for the kind compliment 😉

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