I Smell Victim
I am a predator. My kind are predators. We prey on people. Everybody has the potential to be a victim, but there are those that stand out more than the others. There it is, that aura around them which signals to me “victim”. Suitable prey that is to be drawn into my world, ushered through the inviting gateway and whilst they are distracted the gateway closes behind them with ominous finality. The locks turn, the bolts slide across and the portal is sealed, yet they never notice. They are preoccupied with the golden dust that is being sprinkled over their eyes. All too easy. Yet, that is what is to come and we are focused on the now.
There glows that aura, pulsing like a beacon, a welcome light which may as well be neon lettering stating “Come and Get Me”. The victim makes themselves known within moments of coming across my radar. It is the case that there are a score of tell tale indicators but the fact is that one has that instinctive knowledge that somebody is an ideal victim. How do I know? How do we know? Do you smell different? Do you have “V” stamped on your foreheads? No, but you may as well have. It is the capacity to assimilate so many signals that you broadcast in an instant, collate them, interpret them and then the conclusion is reached “Ideal Victim”.
You stand out. You do. In that room, be it bar or departure lounge, dentist´s waiting room or the queue in some pretentious café, your aura glows around you and tells me that you are prey. It might be your gait, the way you hold your bag, the manner of your conversation should you be on your mobile phone, the way you picked up the bottle of water and then replaced it and chose another or the way you looked around yourself before taking a step forward. There is a multitude of signals which combine and are broadcast to me. My cold, reptilian mind assesses the information in an instant. It is like a radar sweeping back and forth, knowing what to look out for and what to jettison. Rejecting the unhelpful information and collating that which accords with what I am seeking. All of this happens in an instant, I have elsewhere broken down those indicators, but in the field, in the hunting grounds, it all happens with speed. You appear in my field of vision and those signals come racing from you, like comets hurtling towards me and each indicator is then absorbed, assessed and the conclusion is reached.
Victim.
It is as if I have breathed in deeply through my nose and picked up the scent of weakness, the stench of vulnerability and the odour of susceptibility. My nose, a predator´s nose has evolved to distinguish those representative smells. Others who have not evolved in the way that we have smell hot dogs cooking, smell lavender on the breeze or the pungent odour of melted tar. It is very much the case that as a psychopath my sense of smell is not that strong. There are certain subtle fragrances which I do not detect when someone else with a much more sensitive nose than mine can pick up the traces of some smell. It is as if through my evolution I have traded the ability to track fragrances with the ability to sniff out the victim. Of course, I do not literally smell the victim, but rather it is a case of detecting them through the provision of various indicators which hurtle towards me in the blink of an eye, fall to be assessed and then the outcome is declared.
Victim.
What sets the most effective of my kind apart from the rest, is the ability to be aware of the values of the victim. It is fundamental to understand their emotional state and perspective. There are those who do so through emotional empathy, of which I have none and instead I utilize my superior and effective cold emotional intelligence. I identify that victim through my superior social information processing skills allied with that icy emotional intelligence. I have a subconscious ability to recognize those who are the most vulnerable to manipulation, through the hyperfast assessment of the signals that an individual broadcasts and then I recognize.
Victim.
It is an edifying result. Like the vampire scents blood, I acquire the knowledge that a victim has passed in front of me, or is sat at a table in the window or is about to pay for her sandwich. It is, in that instant, that they have bared their throat to me and all I need do is lunge forward and sink my sharpened teeth into their soft exposed flesh and drink deep of their essence. Yet, that is the way of Gothic horror, my way is far more sophisticated. I am fixed with the knowledge that a new victim has presented themselves. How delicious!
The capacity for exploitation of this individual is unlimited. The vulnerable are there to be exploited. Society largely does not engage in such exploitation of the vulnerable because so many of its members possess emotional empathy. That guiding force which reduces and even prohibits such behaviours as the ones that I routinely engage in. Emotional empathy has never existed within me and it never shall. There is no hindrance, no restraint and no fetter. Its absence heightens my ability to detect those characteristics through the social information processing of those that I target.
I assess the utility of that individual. Will they be trusting? How open is this individual? Do they look for the good in others? How likely are they to want to forge a connection with me? Are they an investor in relationships? What vulnerabilities will be available for my use? How will they serve my needs? Is this someone who minimize unusual behaviours? Will this person rationalize red flags? How readily will this person swallow a lie? How eager are they to believe? How often do they look to a higher power? Those are some of the ever present, pinned questions that my mind is always asking and against which the victim is quickly evaluated.
Like a present waiting to be unwrapped, the possibilities are numerous as to how I shall proceed to capitalise on the identification of this victim. I already have the upper hand and I shall maintain it, yet along the way I shall enjoy peeling back the layers on this new play thing. Probing it, analysing it and using it.
It is the way that I am designed which enables me to identify that victim within a matter of moments. This ability to select those that will serve my needs so effectively is part of what sets me apart from others, that which provides me with the success that others crave. The route to success can be achieved by being the best or cheating or being the fastest. I say why not all three?
You will have to excuse me. I can smell dinner…….
120 thoughts on “I Smell Victim”
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🤔 hmmm… in the interest of freedom of expression:
If I am being accused of being in a “camp of rebellion” even remotely on a par with George Orwell, the author of ‘Nineteen Eighty-Four’, then I will happily accept the accusation.
Furthermore, I will wear it as a badge of honour🎖️
Dear Annaamel, thank you for sharing your perspective about what you mean by ’our best’. I understand your perspective and agree with your approach here https://narcsite.com/2024/05/31/i-smell-victim/#comment-456067
What I have difficulties understanding is this sentence: “Telling me to become more robust or ignore unfairness (rather than address potential unfairness) is putting the responsibility on me to make a change.”
Could you please point me in the right direction where I can find the reason for this view where you were told to become more robust and ignore unfairness? Thank you.
A: you have been a bully in this thread, Jordy. 🙁
A: I’ve tried a few times to dissuade you from posts where you’re dismissive towards other commenters, but not had much impact. Frankly, I’m more concerned about you at the moment than any other readers.
J: What do you want me to change?
A:‘……I will tell you the two concerns I have.
I believe you are (or have been) angry or frustrated about something. If you were feeling good I can’t imagine other readers’ posts would bother you to the degree where you’d criticise or insult their comments.
My other concern is that I think you’ve become co-dependent on HG.
J: ‘ 3. Some arrive, extract what they need and then remain because they feel robust enough to do so and they enjoy the interaction and then learning more about the condition as a whole and/or learning more about me, my life, my ‘creation’ and my ongoing treatment; 4. A few recognise when it becomes too much for them and take a break and then return when they feel readier
‘….people find a level for themselves and either decide they have what they need and they can move on or that they have what they need and feel able to remain because they have become robust enough and it is not having any adverse impact. If need be, you could decide to limit your time to say an hour a day or such like and gauge it from there. You know yourself better than anybody else.’
I see…
There’s a part missing my dear ! And HG’s reply starts with “Of all the many readers…” and ends with “You know yourself better than anybody else.”
When Jordyguin addressed Aannaamel’s second concern(s) relating to being “codependent on HG” reflected in Annaamel’s two responses: “Frankly, I’m more concerned about you at the moment than any other readers.”+”My other concern is that I think you’ve become co-dependent on HG.” Jordyguin hoped to solve Annamael’s concerns by explaining that she is for sure addicted to HG’s brilliance and that HG embodies different aspects and roles in this virtual classroom which all cater to her needs of understanding life. Just as it would be the case for all other of his students/readers, more or less so (Annamael has expressed, being concerned about as well). Furthermore Jordyguin assumed that in HG’s reply about the dynamics and types of readers and their virtual relationship with HG — Annaamel would find the relief for her concern including seeing the solution presented, should the necessity be there to adjust, for anyone with codependency issues.
For Jordyguin — HG’s response addresses the issue of readers’ codependency on him and “have become robust enough and it is not having any adverse impact” addresses the overcome of codependency and is not a suggestion to Annaamel to become robust. BUT since this very aspect was extracted by Annaamel’s attention specifically out of all other aspects — I indeed would pay attention to it, there might be some connection for Annaamel which she is potentially not aware about, but only she can find out.
Apparently, Annaamel took all of this as Jordyguin telling her to become robust and ignore unfairness…
Nope.
✨🌕
“HG’s reply starts with “Of all the many readers…” and ends with “You know yourself better than anybody else.”
In my defence it was difficult to know what your intention was in including that excerpt, how it specifically addressed my concerns or where it began and ended. You simply said – this will address your concerns, then added a lot of lines about blog participation.
If you could explain a bit more directly and clearly next time I will be able to better understand the point you are making and read the passages in the way you’d like me to to get your full meaning.
………..
‘When Jordyguin addressed Aannaamel’s second concern(s) relating to being “codependent on HG” reflected in Annaamel’s two responses: “Frankly, I’m more concerned about you at the moment than any other readers.”+”My other concern is that I think you’ve become co-dependent on HG.” Jordyguin hoped to solve Annamael’s concerns by explaining that she is for sure addicted to HG’s brilliance and that HG embodies different aspects and roles in this virtual classroom which all cater to her needs of understanding life.’
Annaamel saw Jordyguin’s explanation that she was addicted to brilliance and HG meets her needs. Annaamel recognised it was a response that attempted to address one of concerns she’d raised. She didn’t think much would be gained by discussing it.
“Just as it would be the case for all other of his students/readers, more or less so (Annamael has expressed, being concerned about as well).”
If this means annaamel has concern about codependence more generally, that would be correct, she does. She generally doesn’t bring up these concerns, but occasionally she does.
“Furthermore Jordyguin assumed that in HG’s reply about the dynamics and types of readers and their virtual relationship with HG — Annaamel would find the relief for her concern including seeing the solution presented, should the necessity be there to adjust, for anyone with codependency issues.”
Annaamel unfortunately did not find relief because she did not understand why Jordyguin had posted it and not see any solution in those words that addressed the issue of jordyguin’s potential codependence. Annaamel is not sure what adjustment would help address an issue of codependence but she’s fairly convinced it’d need to be an adjustment on the part of the codependee.
While annaamel was a bit confused by the excerpt and its recommendations she interpreted the last section as being written by Jordyguin for her.
“For Jordyguin — HG’s response addresses the issue of readers’ codependency on him and “have become robust enough and it is not having any adverse impact” addresses the overcome of codependency and is not a suggestion to Annaamel to become robust.”
Annaamel now understands the last part of the comment was not written to her by Jordyguin and is happy that is the case.
Annaamel still finds the excerpt unhelpful, however, possibly because she believes a codependent reader cannot be a robust reader and sees the adjectives as mutually exclusive. This could be due to Annaamel’s interpretation of the word robust.
“BUT since this very aspect was extracted by Annaamel’s attention specifically out of all other aspects — I indeed would pay attention to it, there might be some connection for Annaamel which she is potentially not aware about, but only she can find out.”
This was the only part of the comment Annaamel thought remotely addressed her concern –
Given that her concern was Jordyguin’s codependency, and she didn’t understand the reason for the inclusion of all the reader groups and her belief the last section was addressed to her, annaamel was only able to see that section as offering any kind of solution, although she didn’t consider it a particularly suitable solution. While her limiting her time on the blog would solve the problem of her identifying codependency from Jordyguin because she would not be here, it wouldn’t change much else.
Annaamel was not dismayed by the insinuation she was not robust or should limit her time. She was prepared for worse and was ready to take whatever came. She would’ve preferred a direct response because she has a life to live. But she was mainly troubled because it seemed like a deflection or shifting of responsibility for an adjustment onto her. Again, good to know that wasn’t the case.
“Apparently, Annaamel took all of this as Jordyguin telling her to become robust and ignore unfairness…
Nope. “
Good to know.
Can annaamel request that Jordyguin be be a bit more direct or provide more context in her replies so annaamel has a better chance of getting it.
“Can annaamel request that Jordyguin be be a bit more direct or provide more context in her replies so annaamel has a better chance of getting it.”
Jordyguin will give her best to do so!
May Jordyguin request that Annaamel try to be a bit more fair and provide more acknowledgement to HG’s ability of handling the blog and his readers?
“She was prepared for worse and was ready to take whatever came. She would’ve preferred a direct response because she has a life to live.”
My further apologies for taking up your time and putting you in a position of having to expect a horrible experience of communication. I know your intentions are coming from your best. Thank you.
Please excuse me Annaamel, I have various fascinating discussions going on the blog, which I would rather like to attend to and I also have a life to live. My apologies for whatever went wrong. I hope to improve in the future.
Jordy,
I was prepared for a strong response because suggesting a reader might be codependent on HG is an inflammatory and confronting suggestion. Inflammatory comments often elicit a defensive or even an aggressive response. I don’t think you’ve presented either, by the way, which I very much admire.
I’ve never said WN’s posts are not provocative or that she’s not passive aggressive. I believe posts can be provocative and critical and she will employ indirect as well as direct attacks. I don’t mind other readers, including you, challenging her comments. I would just prefer it to be a respectful challenge.
I objected to your deconstruction of her comment to prove narcissism. I also didn’t like this part of your response to Joa: “HG once said in an interview that a person who writes long posts about their lives without any question in relation to the topic could have spent their time talking to themselves in the mirror. Taking advantage of HG’s generosity and dumping all what goes on in one’s life and head is also better addressed in sessions where people are paid for their time/their attentive investment..”.
I don’t think you are a narcissist. I don’t even think of you as an unkind person. But I believe your responses sometimes come from a desire to defend HG or advocate for his interests. And from my perspective it’s this that leads you to be less empathic towards readers.
As for my saying ‘I have a life to live’, I shouldn’t have included that. I should’ve recognised it would come across as dismissive. I apologise.
Hi Annaamel, “The force is strong in this one!”😘
I understand and agree with you that a greater emphasis can be put on holding our narcissistic responses in check, where it’s the case for certain tudorites, such as myself and others. It’s better in any case and may lead to much better results for everyone involved.
I was aware of the potential temporary damage my response to Joa may have caused and the response it would have provoked in you, I weighed it out and decided to risk it. What I wished for Joa to cut ties with was something which I perceive is a loop of a negative outlook on the world in general and her doomed position in it (not always, but bouncing back to it). Her ’letting it go’ and writing about it here on the blog is one thing but to get rid of it eventually and live a lighter life she longs for (which would also reflect in her comments as a result) is worth trying but not a perfect example of how such matters can be addressed.
Was my method effective? I can’t tell other than her response to me confirming her awareness and unawareness about the splinter which causes her suffering. On the one hand I’m worried about Joa but on the other hand I think she will return at some point with new insights and discoveries. Maybe she will read this whole thread beforehand, maybe not…
HG paused the blog which also gave her space to reflect, and he also created videos on “The Therapist” which are very helpful where anyone should think of involving one. Again, perhaps Joa’s trust is better placed with HG and she needs just his guidance rather than a therapist, or maybe both. Or she just needs the blog and her writing and the girls and HG and that’s it. All possible and valid. As NA once explained, not so long ago, of how readers in the past misinterpreted the blog for a ’help hotline’ and began wanting to heal other readers which is not really our beer. To a degree yes, but not going to a point of becoming a psychoanalyst. In reality it’s too much of a burden and an arrogance of thinking you can/must help everyone you encounter (virtually even). It’s true that we’re capable of feeling more even virtually but it’s also wise to put a buffer on it at times. Everyone will decide for themselves and gain insight for their further development.
Joa and WiserNow are valuable readers and should’t stop their education here or stop commenting about their views and experiences or participating in debates etc.. As I wrote previously, I find that HG is in full control of his space and I will support him and ’the tudorites in distress’ from my new learned experience✨
Thank you, Annaamel🌷
WiserNow do you know what you actually wrote?
– Oh poor little me who cannot state her truth and be honest because I’d be punished for it by misunderstanding, criticism and exclusion thus I want to announce that I will self-censor from now on and sacrifice my integrity in order to maintain peace and healthier outcomes.
Yours truly Saint –
And again you managed to point at a narcissist (either HG or me) who’s fault it is that you cannot just be your good peaceful self and comment left right and center as you please and expect others to respond in a way which will suit you.
I don’t see even a hint of a ’majority’ which is against you or would require you to withhold back anything but it’s interesting how you experience it. I see for instance Contagious, Annaamel, Leigh, Joa and all other readers engaging with you on a friendly and a supportive basis on this blog. But it’s interesting that you see a majority which is against you i.e. not supportive of you enough. Subtly demanding or whiny.
Excellent article. Also comedic gold in the form of contradictory comments following.
Hi WN. I don’t want to see you treated in a dismissive or unempathic way, but in my opinion what you’ve described in this post is not an accurate description of the dynamic that occurs on this blog.
WiserNow,
This comment was meant to slot in under your post beginning “You’re welcome, Leigh. Thank you for your understanding as well. Yes, it’s necessary to wear masks…”. Posting error.
Dear Annaamel, you’re the usual suspect lined up to minimise telling behaviour i.e. in this case commentary behaviour. Either it is with Joa’s extensive cry for help which leaves a trace throughout her various comments of how to suffer her life through – beautifully, or WN’s cry for attention – which of course as well is a cry for help of a very similar nature, potentially containing a cry for help of a coping protective mechanism. In both cases there is suffering going on underneath the surface and I wouldn’t take it as lightly as you perhaps, but my methods don’t need to be like yours since this niche is already filled by you, I can choose to communicate differently if I want to convey my observations.
You mentioned ’dismissive’ and ’unempathic way’ — Let me ask you this:
Others responded with concern towards Joa, focusing more or less on Joa whilst a certain reader responded with selfarbsorbtion: Get real people and look at ME and how well I’m managing.
Interesting how not ’dismissive’ and not ’unempathic’ at all you managed to let it slip through your attention. ?
Scenario for you to tap in and see for yourself:
1. You’re telling your friend: I’m struggling with life… And your friend responds: Get real Annaamel and look at me and how well I’m managing.
2. Your friend tells you: I’m struggling with life… And you respond: Get real my friend and look at me and how well I’m managing.
3. You’re in a session with a therapist and explaining your struggles and the therapist responds: Get real Annaamel and look at me and how well I’m managing.
_
Rings a bell?
It doesn’t, Jordy. have explained my interpretations of their comments.
I don’t expect you to communicate like me. But I put effort in to suppress my narcissistic side when I respond on this blog. I don’t enjoy reading narcissistic responses from other commenters so assume many empath readers don’t particularly want to read mine.
As to WiserNow perceiving a majority against her, there’s a good chance that because Contagious, Leigh, Joa and I and all other readers are not the support WN is missing out on, our posts have less impact on her. What she may want (what many people often want) is the support of those who do not or will not give it to her. If she’s describing a majority it could be because the support and acceptance she’s given is less noticeable (perhaps even subconsciously) to her than the support and acceptance that is withheld.
I do t know if she’ll ever get it because she can be combative when frustrated. But I think the only way it can get better is if everyone involved in any conversations applies their empathy rather than their narcissism in their responses.
Dear Annaamel, fair enough and thank you for sharing your observations!
_
As I shared with you elsewhere, my upbringing involved being in the sphere of acting and it made me develop emotions differently than for instance my friends would. Emotions were seen as tools to be intensified and also switched freely, also in order to make them last longer, or to protect oneself from drowning in them. All emotions were welcomed to be felt and expressed. They were not categorised as unwanted or to be kept in check but the opposite. They had to be embraced and become our greatest ally! Getting to know them, to experience them, learn to measure them and store them away for later use was essential. In that regard my attachment to emotions is rather loose, unrestrained but can also be detached. I think it would play a part in how I can communicate what would fall under narcissistic responses by your (and other’s) perception. But it can also involve mirroring people and their attitudes back at them sometimes, since I’m quite attentive, so both is possible.
’Thought police’ – if anything I’m the opposite when it comes to ’express yourself’… Anyways, have an awesome new week and I’ll take your observations into account and thank you very much for taking the time to investigate and for your involvement and participation and for staying cool. In a couple of days there will be a full moon — emotions/feelings/instincts might be at peak…
what would fall under narcissistic responses by your (and other’s) perception.’
To clarify what I mean by narcissistic responses, I’m probably talking about these:
Vindictiveness
Defensiveness
Nastiness
Snideness
Snark
Sarcasm
Holding grudges
Attacking
Piling on
Humiliating
Thank you for shedding light on these! My apologies!
I’m fairly sure, Jordy, that the original Thought Police comment was a reference to NA, not you.
“I’m your biggest fan, I’ll follow you until you love me” —Harley Quiin
” I am your greatest victim, I will follow you until you destroyed me.” – A student of HG Tudor
Hi HG, it’s Piper. I want to eventually pay you for an hour of your time, but I have just started reading your blogs in earnest, so I’ll wait a bit.
So far, I’m trying to understand how you could still feel the thrill of the “hunt” given its ease and simplicity now. I’m guessing having your legacy in the YT universe is a sufficient reward in itself.
I have OCD; therefore, I am the opposite of you. You’re a learned man, so you probably understand the disorder. I’ve been a huge fan since 2021, so I’ve been trying to be like you, if only for a few seconds, to understand how narcs think and to give my tortured brain a rest. To do this, I’ve been diligently watching your videos with the idea that empathy is not an option . I’ll have weed 🌿, listen to your glorious narrations, and tune out. In doing this, I’ll inadvertently see behavioral patterns their logical conclusions. As an earnest student, I can take your indifference, apply it to others, and scare the shit out of myself for feeling nothing. I have only you to thank for letting an OCD ridden person like me taste what it is to feel so powerful, so apathetic, so in control of any scenario my mind might give me and any emotion that may affect me. My ex husband already feels my turn against him and, thanks to you, I think he might even be afraid of me! Good.
Again, thank you so much HG. I greatly appreciate you 🙏♥️.
Gosh…..I love this article and especially the audio version. It’s like out of a film, except you’re real. Sir… you have all my attention when you talk like this. And Educating HG Series gives away that little HG was ticking like this from the start. Or from the point of no return rather. I can’t tell for sure where the ‘start’ was, so… Really cool series continuation. love. more!
Mr. Tudor,
This article really evoked some strong reactions in me. I want to throat punch you and thank you at the same time.
Not only is your way more sophisticated, it’s more insidious.
As always, brilliantly written, Mr. Tudor.
I was a victim once in my life when my water broke prematurely and I was to give birth to a child 7.5 weeks prematurely. I felt a victim to my body. He is a marine now and boxer, healthy as can be! One can be a victim to cancer or rape or a casualty of war. But I think those who encounter narcs can classify themselves “ wounded” like the narc. Not victims but with your help and with their inner strength even those who have not discovered how power they really are and for me with God inside me) have great lives. To me victims are usually helpless. But with a narc in most cases, you can help yourself and have a great life! I get your colloquial use of victim but your website shows it doesn’t have to be;)
I don’t know why but I have never accepted the term victim for myself. Ever. I would rather die for my beliefs than be a victim even if the belief is in me or God.
Contagious,
I loathe the word victim and I agree that I would never accept the term victim to describe myself. I’m a Survivor! We’re all Survivors!
Contagious,
I agree, I prefer the terms; survivor, fighter, damaged, healing….anything to victim, a victim is dead, that’s a victim…someone who can’t move on from the abuse. I can move on, I can heal, I will move on, I will heal! Xx
Hello HG:
I don’t like the term victim but I get it. I have never been a victim. I have been hurt by a ASPD ex husband who was a multimillionaire who threatened me with a gun and said he would kill me, see me on the streets… but after two years of fighting, I got 89% custody and “ won” by never interfering and fostering the relationship with father and child. I foster respect for their own relationship while keeping the fires aflame for my own. Let love rule. I was hit by second husband who was a drinker and a middle lesser, and I would not let him back until he took DV classes and quit drinking. Alas the drinking ended and the physical abuse but the narc abuse continued in other forms. I never let him back. Was I hurt? Yes. Having to fight for your daughter in court and fear for your life is not easy. BUT when he showed up probably armed as he always carried and stood inches from my nose on a moving van, I told him “do your worst, I am leaving.” It helped having a bunch of ex felon workers outside the van who liked me. He left. So I have been afraid for my life, stalked, had a gun to my head, had a lawsuit for full custody filed against me that dragged on for two years, been hit once in the face, etc… but I am no man’s victim. In both cases, they were angry I left. I learned. I grew. I win in court. I feel I can handle them by picking myself up, walking away or drawing healthy boundaries. I learned a lot from YOU but I was no man’s victim before you. I left at 17, worked through college, studied abroad and law school. Little help. No blame. My parents didn’t really have money. I bought a house that’s now 1.5 million, have my own law firm, raised two remarkable children nearly on my own. No one helped. I battled a multimillionaire tied to criminal organizations on my own. You never know how strong you are until you have to be. Victim? No. Mated to a narc? Yes, I think once. Ladies: swords UP!
You know what is so marvellous about your writing (among scores of other things)?
There is not a single “curated” or other such empty nonsense in sight. No matter how dark the subject matter, there is always this ray of sunshine. No matter how many victims you might leave in the dust, scarred, broken and maimed, your language is not one of them. That is its own kind of dinner, and a very satisfying one. Thank you for another treat.
Sometimes I feel like poking out my eyes.
I dress in shreds of courage, as if I were wearing a plume of colorful feathers. Sometimes this plume is so impressive, that it makes me look uninhibited and strong. But these are not my feathers…
Unnecessary trouble. Everything falls away as soon as someone looks into my eyes. They are like the surface of transparent water, in which I can be seen very clearly. There is a question mark and a sign of agreement in them.
All the knowledge gained here is useless. It’s even worse. Now I agree, swallowing the bitter taste inside, fully aware that I am being deceived now.
Sometimes there’s nothing I can do but stay away from the world.
—–
And now I have to start putting my feathers on again. How many times have I done this in my life??? First, the smallest ones, down feathers, to quickly cover my naked body with anything. Later it will be time for flight feathers and rectrices.
I’ll fly again, until someone shoots me. Although no one really shoots at me better than me.
—–
It’s amazing, that things that are complicated for many people, are for me like the air I live by. I give them away easily, with a smile and for free.
And things, that are normal for others, become a huge burden and an insurmountable obstacle for me.
I hate money. The more of them I have, the bigger the problem and concern for me. Artificial and unnecessary problems, that take up my time.
I guess I’m some kind of freak… My god, I feel frustrated, angry and extremely impatient with having too much money. It’s so pathetic it’s funny 🙂
Do you want to punish me? Give me big money, take some popcorn and wait until I self-destruct and collapse without strength, ha ha ha 🙂
—–
And then I will come to you, because I will need you to take this problem away from me…
🙁
Hi Joa,
I do the same thing at work, try to hold up a defense against strangers, keep the abusive back, but like you, they see through my defenses and see my eyes, my glass defense is see through for them…they know me by my walk, my worry, my care, I care too much, I stop out of concern, they see my gestures, they see me.
Like you, I’m toughest on myself and quick to strike at myself for the littliest of mistakes, that are so big to me, because mistakes aren’t allowed, not tolerated, even by myself. I understand how you feel. Xx
Also, I look at my mother. She married an empath with issues at 17. Stayed married for 35 years. My dad died. She married a normal. Nice guy not exciting. She stayed married for 14 years. He died. Four months later she moved in with a narc. She admitted that she can’t be alone as she never has and in her mid seventies she can’t. She told me he was a narc. Obvious. She lives life style she loves and went from an alpha female to a subservient companion. She is not unhappy. She has always had a full life of friends, activities such as golf and bridge and good relations with her children and grandchildren. She just settles in and makes the best of life no matter what challenge is thrown her way. She just hates to be alone for some reason. While I prefer living with a man and have most of my life, I can. I don’t understand how to “ settle.” Sometimes I wish I could. My children are fiercely independent and like the younger generation have no strong drive to marry or have children ( despite how much I want grandchildren someday:( My daughter says it’s better to be alone then in a bad relationship. I agree. But both my mothers choices and my daughters choices leave them equally happy. But I imagine my mother has more challenges then my daughter dealing with a narc even when both are 80. I just think we have to decide what’s right for us. No one else lives our lives but us. To thy own self be true.
Rebecca, I’ve been coping with life on my own for many years. However, it annoys me, that I constantly have to be “on standby”. This is not my starting position, but I am forced to assume it.
I’m tired of wearing masks. But without them, human will not survive in this world.
I feel very disappointed whenever someone tries to cheat me. Not angry. Not outrage. I’m just disappointed.
There is no respite. There are no conditions to… be yourself.
For every moment of interruption in wearing masks, you have to pay dearly.
Joa,
I feel for you, I hope it gets easier. Xx I know how you feel, is all I can offer for comfort.xx You’re a strong woman and more than capable to get through the tough times. Xx
Rebecca, don’t waste your sympathy on me, there are so many people in this world that are truly innocent, unhappy, or in need of stability. I’m sorry you got upset about me. I not worth it.
I have an internal compulsion to write and I leave these scraps in various places. Don’t worry about this. Everything inside me is happening fast like in a kaleidoscope.
My problems are ridiculous. And they rather concern irritation, that the world is not as I see it and as I would like it to be (!)
I hate things, that most people like – going to stores (I shop in the mall only once a year – before Christmas). I don’t watch TV and I don’t know commercials. I don’t have Netflix. Etc. Etc.
I do my daily shopping on the run, between other things. I buy clothes online about once a year – dozens of packages – just to have my head free from this boring and unpleasant activity for the next year. Permanent sets of clothes, so as not to fill your head with nonsense such as: “What should I wear tomorrow/today?” The decision is made in 5 seconds – another permanent set. In a moment of madness, I mix the addition.
I have a problem with material things. I don’t need most of them. If something is necessary – I want to enter – buy – leave. Quick. Instantly. Without loss of strength and time. Especially without listening to smiling generalities from the seller. If I have a question, I ask it myself and ask for a specific, detailed answer (they usually don’t know it!).
I usually buy more expensive products online. For example, I spend 24/7 (intensively) learning new features of coffee machines, comparing brands and opinions. The aesthetic assessment of the product, which is very important to me. I have never had a mistake or had to return a product.
Right now I want to buy a car. My dear, very old car (built in 1999 – and my automotive knowledge has stopped at this stage) drives great, is fast and agile, still beautiful, almost failure-free and trouble-free, tailored to my needs, but… the air conditioning has broken down and the young mechanics can’t help deal with such an old type of air conditioning (3 mechanical workshops, paid 3 times, it was supposed to work 3 times – it doesn’t work).
My ideal car purchases:
I say what I want. The car is dropped off at my house. I use the car with pleasure and I don’t worry about such nonsense.
Real purchases:
Trying to dazzle me – countless times – each salesman singing the same verse, as if they were learning it from each other.
Attempts to trick me into fraud – taking advantage of my lack of knowledge in the rules of importing foreign cars and financing them – 3 times.
Attempt to sell me goods at an inflated price – 1 time.
Attempt to sell me defective goods – 1 time.
Rescuers/Saviors/Field Specialists/Sages spawn – 4 times.
Pressure – 80% level – too much for me.
Conclusions: I had to learn a thousand new functions available in cars, get to know dozens of brands and types, body shades, types of materials used, mounting methods, safety rules, and learn the differences in engine types.
I’m slowly becoming an automotive expert, even though I was a complete novice. I started paying attention to the cars on the streets. This case – from a small one – has become huge. It takes up a lot of my time. The sellers’ attempts at encouragement make me vomit.
Whatever I do – I focus on it too much, I go too deep into details.
I’m tired of the pressure and help from male friends, that I didn’t ask for. When I ask a question about an automotive detail – do not look for offers for me and do not “force” me to buy the car of your dreams. I didn’t mean to offend you by overthinking or rejecting your generous offer. Don’t act as if this was an act worthy of the highest condemnation.
I want to buy a car. No; not the kind that I will sell in 2 years if I don’t like it/it breaks/I will replace it with a newer model. This is to be a car, that will become part of my life and I will drive it at least until I retire. I will buy it and live without this type of problems for the next 15 years.
So Rebecca, don’t feel sorry for me. My “problems” are really pathetic 🙂 And yet they can bring me to the brink of a nervous breakdown, ha ha ha 🙂
Harassment, beating, rape, aggression? I survived it. I did it. I stand strong and steady. Look at me. I laugh and joke, playful sparks playing in my eyes.
Buying a car? This problem has overwhelmed me.
I write jokingly, but yes – what is a pleasure for some people, is a nightmare for me. What most people are afraid of is, for me, easy to master and solve.
I decided to temporarily put aside my nightmare, endure the physical inconvenience of the current means of transport and rest mentally. Soon I will start the second round, in a slightly different way and with a new amount of knowledge (which I had to acquire, although it is worthless).
Only my maladjustment to the material world may require compassion. Fortunately, I personally know others like me – that’s comforting 😊
Still, it’s amazing how well I function in a world I reject.
I apologize for cluttering up the thread about victims with my personal matters – at that moment I was tired and temporarily felt that way (on the levels between the lines/interpersonal relationships).
The title of the story for the next month: Joa strikes back – that is, she re-enters the automotive and super-sensitive male world.
Hi Joa,
I think you and I are very similar. I took this comment to mean that you’re uncomfortable with people worrying about you. You have pride and you know you’re a survivor and you don’t need or want people to feel bad for you. I know you tell us these stories just to share them with us, not because you want our sympathy. With that said, I don’t worry about you because I know you’re incredibly strong. Thank you for sharing.
I had to giggle about your car. My car is old too and I love it and I won’t be giving it up anytime soon.
Hi JOA,
You’re worth worrying about and I understand what you mean about what stresses you out versus what stresses others out…What causes me to feel overwhelmed, doesn’t bother other people, but we’re all different in how we handle each situation. Xx I enjoy the hunt in shopping for a car. I know what I’m looking for and I won’t get something that doesn’t agree with me, or fullfill my needs. It doesn’t stress me out at all, but sometimes a time crunch at work, in an assignment, will get my head spinning around and I can feel a meltdown coming and I have to step away mentally and have a talk with myself, in my head…”you can do this, you’vw done this before, stop being afraid, you’re capable, you’re smart enough, stop doubting yourself and just get it done!” That’s my talk to myself, almost daily at work. Xx I understand your feelings because I deal with my own inner battles too. Xx I enjoy reading your comments. Xx
Dear Joa,
I read with great sadness your post dated 6 June.
‘My problems are ridiculous’…they are not, Joa.
If you have a problem, concern, worry, regardless of how anyone else sees it, it remains an important issue for you and should not be trivialised by anyone else.
We all live our lives differently and I cannot imagine how you feel on a daily basis having to deal with things that cause you irritation (I hate things, that most people like).
We open our eyes in a morning and the day unfolds in front of us, whether we like it or not, we have no choice but to move forward, however it can cause a great amount of stress and anxiety for those like yourself who dislike the ‘normality’ of life.
Harassment, beating, rape, aggression, I survived it… I am sorry to hear that you suffered this, I speak from a place of benevolence rather than pity, and I am pleased to hear that you have survived it and have moved forward positively, you are strong and you should be proud of yourself for that.
Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that I don’t think that your problems are ridiculous. Sending you love and strength to continue to walk your path 🥰🤍
Rebecca, thank you. What I meant was that whatever was going on in my life, I could deal with it. Therefore, it is not worth worrying about me, it is better to focus on people who really need such help.
I regulate my internal states myself – one of the ways is to write and let it out – which at the same time allows me to categorize, evaluate, stamp and leave things in the right place.
In the world of material things, what annoys me the most is how much people focus on them. They define themselves by the things they own. This makes no sense – from my point of view.
Oh, Rebecca, I don’t know if you liked the gray zone of buying/selling cars, which is in my country 🙂 The more I have to get acquainted with it, the stronger the desire to call it, contrary to popular belief, not a gray zone, but a black zone 🙂 In April, in our country, the minister’s car was confiscated, because it turned out that he had a “twin” abroad – and he bought the car from an authorized dealer – a story to illustrate the situation.
From the buyer’s point of view, I should only be interested in the brand and functions, but unfortunately I had to delve deeply into technologies, regulations and legal aspects – and thus tear off the lining under the beautiful suit – where a world of frauds and abuses emerged, with a rather tightly intertwined criminal world.
It interested me so much, that I keep following these matters – from a distance, of course, I don’t get close anymore. All I can write is that I almost made a “safe purchase after acquaintance” (this hurt me the most, because it is quite a close acquaintance…), which I could very well regret. The car was beautiful, stunning and I had a great time driving it. The papers seemed to be in order, I personally translated the entire story and the book word by word. Very good technical condition, checked by a professional I can trust. And yet, there were several nuances, that forced me to dig deeper and deeper, and just before buying I received information that the car had been sold. I didn’t believe this fairy tale one bit – but I accepted it with relief (though also with regret) and stuck to it. This lie allowed several people to get out of this with “save face”. I closed the case (for the world), but I had to know the truth – only for myself. Innate inquisitiveness and increasing proficiency in the subject led me to my goal. Currently, the car is no longer sold by an authorized dealer, but by a private person, who is officially and according to the documentation the first owner. Of course, this is the version for the world. In this case, they tried to deceive me at three stages of sale.
To summarize – my nervous system has become disturbed in contact with the world I have to enter. It turns out, that buying a car honestly is not an easy thing 🙂 And when you don’t want the price on the invoice to be reduced below the value (lower tax), they look at you with disbelief, it’s so “normal” in this world…
NO. This is definitely not my world.
Rebecca, time pressure has two poles. Up to a certain point, pressure is good for work – it mobilizes, increases efficiency and creativity. Above a certain level it can shock the nervous system 🙂 I know what you’re talking about. In such moments, I curse and talk to myself, I am close to breakdown, my efficiency and concentration drop 🙂
Carole, thank you.
I do not downplay my own problems and thoughts. Rather, I meant the point of view of other people, who flexibly adapt to situations, to make life easier for them. From their point of view, my attitude is ridiculous.
From my point of view – I have no intention of bending to the world, if I don’t like something. I don’t want to… and I can’t. Even if it makes life harder.
The world – at least the one around me – has to be the way I want it to be. End, period 🙂
I’m a terrible stiff 🙂
Thank you very much for your wishes of strength to follow my path. Very accurate! Thank you and to you too 🙂
Hi JOA,
In my previous comment, to you, on June 8th. I said, ‘I enjoy reading your comments” I meant because they’re usually so poetic and beautiful. I wanted to clarify that comment.
I sympathize with how you feel and sometimes the little things that bug us, are usually what is important to us, so please don’t think you’re not worth worrying about.. you are and you’re allowed to be upset.., but don’t dwell there too long…depression can take root and feel like a good companion for a while….don’t sleep there.. don’t listen to it…you’re strong and capable of beating it back. Xx
Dear Joa:
God I missed your poetry readings ! What a talent! I felt just like you until your hate of money. I soar with it, fly, give others life’s breaths, travel and adventure. Money means freedom to me:) I like things too music, art, perfume, goop, and flowers and candles so yes so sorry the materialist I am, money is what I do to be free to fly and to protect. TRUST. I burn for it. I work for it. You must publish. You are such a great poet!
Contagious, thank you. I cringed internally and walked on my tiptoes to my daughter’s room, to tell her with the shyness – worthy of a teenager (my gosh!) – what you wrote to me 🙂
I like and expect praise for the things I write and create professionally. I accept such praise without shame or embarrassment – as long as it is short and concise.
Here I’m just gutting my guts from time to time, focusing on myself.
Money – I need the amount necessary to have a place to live and something to eat – without much worry. The rest is just an addition.
In my opinion, it’s completely the opposite 🙂 Money enslaves. They hold you stiffly by the neck. It is the lack of money and lack of needs that opens the way to true freedom 🙂
Of course, I am human, with all my imperfections. And sometimes I can’t free myself from some desires, including those that require money to be fulfilled.
—–
Sometimes I laugh among my work friends, that if I were to receive a fee in the form of:
a) money,
b) praise,
c) a glint of admiration or jealousy in the eyes,
first I will choose c) then b) and finally a)
🙂
Joa says, “All the knowledge gained here is useless. It’s even worse. Now I agree, swallowing the bitter taste inside, fully aware that I am being deceived now.”
This made me incredibly sad when I read it because unfortunately, its accurate for me.
Joa and Leigh,
That’s the part that I couldn’t relate to. The info I gained here has helped me a lot, to see my behaviors that allow abusive people to see me and I also allowed me to see them. That’s priceless info for me, to understand myself more, to understand them more. I needed the answers I got and continue to find here…..unless “here” for Joa was a different place than this blog and HG’s other works? If I misunderstood that part, I apologize for my misunderstanding. Xx
Hope you both are well. Xx
Hi Rebecca,
I agree 100%. The knowledge I gained from Mr. Tudor has helped me too. I’m beyond grateful for the insight Mr. Tudor has given me. It is an amazing gift.
I just meant that In my case, that insight shows me I’m being manipulated and lied to and I just sit and watch and do nothing. Of course, that’s my own doing but its still the truth and can get to me sometimes. I know this gift of insight is absolutely invaluable and I wouldn’t change it for the world.
That’s how I interpreted Joa’s comment.
Hope you’re well too.
Hi Leigh and Joa,
So nice to have the blog back and operating fully again, in regards to not getting email notifications for a while….Thank you both for clarifying for me what you both meant. Xx
I understand where you’re coming from, but stay positive as much as you can, after all, being aware is the first step to stopping those who abuse you. We all learned to be aware from HG’s work and that to me is priceless. Xx
Hi Rebecca!
I agree. It’s wonderful that Mr. Tudor and the blog is back! I’ve missed him and all of you!
Yes being aware is a very important step. Sometimes my cynicism gets me a little down on myself but I don’t let it fester. Its not good for the soul. I try very hard to turn the negatives into a positives.
Hope you’re well!
Hi Leigh,
I missed you and everyone on the blog I communicate with, the kinship here is uncomparable to anywhere else. Xx I struggle too, with keeping the negative thoughts away. It’s why I said to stay positive because it’s the best antidote to negative thoughts that invade the mind. I think it’s hard for us because our parent(s) narc were critical to us, so now we’re naturally critical to ourselves. It’s to do with our empath make up, I think, the schools and cadres we have, create the automatic response to turn inward and blame ourselves and be negative towards ourselves. It’s what I’ve learned here and what I’ve come to realize about myself. I am my own worse critic, granted my narc mother was even better at it. I’m aware now that I do it, thanks to HG and a few others on the blog. Being aware of when you’re mean to yourself is as important as knowing what to do about it. The struggle is real, but it’s a fight I’m not quitting. Xx
Hi Rebecca,
I missed this comment yesterday.
My negative self talk is a little different. I’m not critical of myself. I’m fine for me. I’m happy with myself. I’m just not good enough for others. I use that as a defense mechanism though. It keeps people at bay. Its easier to feel not good enough because there’s less of a chance of being hurt. But here’s the catch, what I actually long for is for someone to find me good enough.
The other thing that’s been popping up lately is feeling like a victim. Fucking A that pisses me off! Its so annoying. Its fleeting, but when something bad happens, I can’t help but think, “Seriously, can I catch a break just once?” That feeling doesn’t last long but it still annoys me.
Ok, I’ve babbled enough. I agree, we really do have a wonderful kinship here!
Rebecca, you’re right.
I shouldn’t write, that the knowledge gained here is useless.
I should write, that I am not able to use the knowledge acquired here in practice.
I cannot and do not want to become such a person
or
I can’t, so I don’t want to become such a person.
Hi JOA,
You’re so creative in your writing and I can read how you struggle through your expressive comments. Things bother you, the way things are trouble you and it feels worse because you can’t change or fix the issues. I understand how you feel. I wish I could help you. Xx Please try to step away mentally from what is upsetting you, if you can’t physically step away, take a break from the chaos in your mind, in your environment and try to think if what is right in your life, the positive things, read a good book, pet and hug a puppy, anything that lifts your mood and brighten your thoughts and feelings. Gives some care to yourself, take a break.I hope you feel better soon. Xx 💕
Come on people, get real, seriously.
I’ve seen the claws come out, and the kickass attitude, and the stones thrown between all the kisses. I’ve seen them first-hand and for a long time too.
But then again, I’m not a narc, so there’s that.
I was having dinner with my dear and loving next of kin recently, and the controlling coercive emotional abuse was there, plain as day, and I could see it and fully recognise it.
Did it make me sad? Yes, it made me feel like there was a huge, cold stone in the pit of my stomach that just got heavier.
Did it also make me quietly defiant? Yes, it did. I saw my family for exactly who they are and I resisted because I knew why they did it and I knew my knowledge (a lot of which was gained from HG) also gave me the upper hand.
I continued to have dinner quietly without openly objecting or getting riled. I left on good terms but also without giving them the control and fuel they sought.
Targeted? Yes. Survivor? Yes. Family member? Yes. Victim? No.
I agree 100%, WN. In situations with known narc, its best to keep that mask on and remain quiet. Anything you say can and will be used against you.
It would just be nice if one day, the mask is gone and I don’t have to hold my tongue.
Hi Leigh,
Thank you for your reply, and sorry for not responding earlier. I haven’t been using WordPress for some time so I don’t always see replies.
It’s been a while since your reply. I hope you’re well. It’s good to see you and others here and I’m glad HG is keeping the blog active.
It sounds like you don’t like wearing a mask and would prefer to openly say what you think or feel. I can understand that well.
It may be your empathic traits of honesty and fairness – which are strong – clashing with your experiences of what happens with a narcissist when you do say anything.
For me, it’s like a catch-22. It can make me feel damned if I do and damned if I don’t. In the past, I often used to feel trapped in a ‘catch-22’. It’s the cognitive dissonance.
The feeling of being caught up in a dilemma in ‘real life’ outside of the blog is why I like and appreciate reading and learning here. We can be honest on the blog and say what we think or feel, and this enables us to learn from the consequences.
Being on the blog also provides relief from the need to wear masks and hold our tongues. Unfortunately, wearing masks is actually a need – a necessity in order to protect yourself.
For me, I find that it’s easier to wear a mask when I accept that it’s a need rather than try to fight against it. It’s needed because it provides peace and leads to healthier outcomes overall.
It’s good to comment here again with you, Leigh 🙂
Hi WN,
Thank you for your understanding. Thank you for validating my necessity to a wear a mask and why sometimes I can’t be completely honest. Its exactly like you said. Its needed to maintain peace and healthier outcomes.
The blog really does provide relief. That’s why I’m so thankful for the blog and what Mr. Tudor provides for us all.
Yes, its good to chat with you too, WN. I hope you and yours are well.
You’re welcome, Leigh. Thank you for your understanding as well.
Yes, it’s necessary to wear masks and it’s not helpful to be completely honest, even though complete honesty would be preferable at times.
After I read your comment, I thought about what you said about being completely honest. Then, I thought about what I said in my comment, particularly the line below:
“We can be honest on the blog and say what we think or feel, and this enables us to learn from the consequences.”
I was being truthful when I said this. We can be honest here on the blog and we can say what we think or feel. Ultimately though, the consequences lead to the need to wear a mask. By the way, I am only speaking for myself here.
Since HG has come back to the blog in the past week or so, I have thought of a number of comments I could write in relation to several conversations here on the blog. The comments would be my honest thoughts about various posts or about topics raised by other people. After thinking of writing them and the likely consequences of doing so, I decided not to write them.
I thought it would be futile because of responses (or total silence) I have received in general to date.
For example, when I thought I was being helpful, the consequence was that I was interpreted as being condescending. When I thought I was explaining my views, the consequence was that I was interpreted as being rude or of writing a monologue. When I joined a conversation, the consequence was that I was ‘misinterpreted’.
When I expressed my honest views in ways just like others also did, my honest views were instantly negated by the majority – or censored – or ignored.
So, in a sense, I do genuinely believe this is a place where readers can be honest and learn from the consequences of their honesty.
The consequences are such that I have learned to self-censor. I have learned that ‘peace’ and ‘healthier outcomes’ equate to narrowness of viewpoints and a loss of overall integrity.
I think it’s a price that’s paid wherever there is a narcissist.
HI WN,
I have also found that sometimes I prefer to self censor on the blog as well. I don’t know if that necessarily means that I’m dealing with a narcissist though. Some people have very strong beliefs and they might not agree with my thoughts. That’s ok. I know I can be a bit rigid in my thinking as well. Although I do try to have an open mind.
Please feel free to be honest with me, WN. You don’t need to hold your tongue with me.
Hello Leigh and WN, my apologies for interrupting your conversation.
WiserNow, you raised a point which I would like to adress.
I don’t find it beneficial for any growth to wear a mask should this conclusion be a result of because we clashed on this platform. I understand that you’re feeling hurt and confused, but I’d like you to consider that debates are like matches of ping pong or tennis and they are not supposed to be solely smooth.
You gotta be tough enough to be ready to die for your principles before engaging in a debate or stating polarising views — for instance criticism of HG or answering to me in a manner which questions my principles or involvement in the topics I raise in my comments — and you gotta be ready to receive a reply which will not meet with your expectations or will meet them either way.
On the other hand you have to be soft enough to adjust in a “battle” should you see that your resources require a retreat and recharge.
On the blog but especially in real life, when narcissists come into picture, it’s of course another thing altogether and the approach of wearing a mask i.e. indifference towards the narcissist is in your own interests.
The history of this platform demonstrates that it’s not only a supportive field of online-friends but also a field of debates on narcissism/psychopathy, personal issues etc. and HG conducts as to how far and how long they serve a purpose for this platform and intervenes if necessary.
If maintaining peace is your goal then I can understand the self-censor approach which, so you think, would create peace and healthier outcomes yet “equate to narrowness of viewpoints and a loss of overall integrity”, which would suck, is what you’re saying.
In my opinion you suggest self-censoring because you’re not prepared to potentially miss the mark with what honesty or your own truth may convey and you’re not ready to go till the end for it, which can involve successes or failings or a draw, including a learning and growing experience, naturally.
To state that basically withholding your honesty is a price that’s paid wherever there is a narcissist, either again points to HG or to a narcissist commentator (me) and that the narcissist is responsible for your decision to withhold your best, trim your integrity, hide your honesty and so on.
There are readers who are very supportive of you, such as Contagious, Annaamel, Leigh, Joa and basically all other readers with whom you engage. And there is me who can be (was) challenging with you (I’m not aware of others except me for now). I don’t see a ’majority’ which is against you or would require you to withhold back anything.
Ohhhh! I think I finally understand what’s going on. I apologize, Jordy. I was agreeing that sometimes its best to keep our mouth shut, not that you’re a narc. Sometimes shit just flies right over my head, lol.
Hi Leigh,
Thank you, it’s lovely of you to say this and I appreciate it. I welcome your honesty with me too.
I know from our past interactions that you have an open mind and also that you are openly honest, even when your honesty has the potential to be regarded as ‘treachery’ by some.
…and now, to use a word that HG is known to say, I think it would behoove us to hold our tongues in this conversation.
I see the Thought Police are on our trail and they are closing in… 👮
We need to be careful. We’re likely to be charged with ThoughtCrime, and you know what that means….
It means a one-way ticket to the Gulag.
Big Brother is always watching, Leigh, if you know what I mean…😉
It’s safer for us to separate, pretend not to know each other, and hold our tongues… 🤐
WN,
Understood and I agree! 😉🤐
Leigh,
👍🤐👍 … ❤️😘
WiserNow:
I promise to never comment upon your comments ever again, would it change your mind? Would it free you to honestly speak your truth, to drop the mask?
If your decision to curl up and 🤐 has anything to do with me, it’s not a problem to avoid commenting in your direction.
__
(Sir, my other reply which is still in moderation is so unnecessary, if you chose to dumb it, I’m perfectly fine with it.)
(Annaamel, for the protocol;
After three month of blog pause (starting with WN’s reply September 12, 2024 at 04:05) Leigh and WN’s communication started off well, exchanging their thoughts and struggles and so on – the blog is painted white, and then it switched.
Sentence by sentence Leigh was led to agree with pretty much passive aggressive statements about the blog towards the end.
Leigh wants to comfort WN and gives her confirmation for everything she proposed.
I find it’s worth mentioning for the analysis.)
(In WN’s replies comes up an inconsistency of; claims for preferences of honesty, authenticity, integrity, openness and directness — yet the usage of indirectness and cryptic language manifests thereafter. Presumption about readers’ responses upon unstated views and statements about a perceived rejection by a ’majority’ which played out in negation, censoring and ignoring.
The inconsistency of mentioning of; a need to wear a mask for protection purposes, peace and healthier outcomes — yet in the end hiding behind a mask of indirectness, passive aggressiveness, cryptic language and provocation.
Where Leigh sets an end to the issue of ’masks’ on a positive note also stating that the blog does provide relief to her (September 12, 2024 at 13:46) — it doesn’t sit well with WN and she continues expressing her issues ending her statement about the blog demanding a price of her and a loss of overall integrity.
Upon that Leigh provides again a well measured response which includes seeing her own part where differences or conflicts may arise from (an empath indicator of self-reflection and adjustment). Nothing of sorts in WN’s reply, again taking an interesting route where Leigh’s open mindedness and honesty is praised yet receives a label of ‘treachery’ as a potential result, and finally ending her reply with passive aggressive provocation and a proposal to have to hold ’their’ tongues (Leigh is in her camp now). The rest is history.)
Not a problem at all, Leigh🌷All good! I know and see your good intentions with whomever you support, which is wonderful. And I enjoy reading how you find tipps for practical solutions, emotional and mental support and understanding in all of the girls’ comments.
„Come on people, get real, seriously.“
(*Haughtiness. Out of the blue.)
„I’ve seen the claws come out, and the kickass attitude, and the stones thrown between all the kisses. I’ve seen them first-hand and for a long time too.“
(*When accidentally the truth slipped: a person suddenly described her own behavior.)
„But then again, I’m not a narc, so there’s that.“
(*The level of desperation in trying to reinforce an empath status.)
„I was having dinner with my dear and loving next of kin recently, and the controlling coercive emotional abuse was there, plain as day, and I could see it and fully recognise it.“
(*Duplicity. Painting white: my dear and loving. Painting black: controlling coercive emotional abusers. Asserting control by smearing.)
„Did it make me sad? Yes, it made me feel like there was a huge, cold stone in the pit of my stomach that just got heavier.“
(*Q&A for the self = very important person. Flowery description of how ‘sad‘ feels.)
„Did it also make me quietly defiant? Yes, it did. I saw my family for exactly who they are and I resisted because I knew why they did it and I knew my knowledge (a lot of which was gained from HG) also gave me the upper hand.“
(*Q&A for the self = very important person. „MY knowledge“ – comes first and HG has made it into that grandiose tapestry of knowledge somehow as well. Blinded by own arrogance, since the only accurate information you’ve gained about narcs is due to HG only.)
„I continued to have dinner quietly without openly objecting or getting riled. I left on good terms but also without giving them the control and fuel they sought.“
(*I’m such an empath. Misfiring cognitive attempt of explaining the concept of what ‘giving control’ and ‘giving fuel’ means“. After being a reader since ca 2018)
„Targeted? Yes. Survivor? Yes. Family member? Yes. Victim? No.“
(*standing ovations)
Jordyguin,
“Blinded by own arrogance, since the only accurate information you’ve gained about narcs is due to HG only.”
Your projection here is obvious and you are incorrect.
I have learned about narcissism and empathy from a number of people, including HG.
After reading widely about psychology in general – including brain activity, neuroception, early child development, attachment to caregivers, narcissism and more – I have learned from numerous people. In addition, many of these people did not feel the need to beat their chest about being the ‘only’ expert in the field.
I am not “blinded by my own arrogance” but there are some here who certainly are.
Jordyguin,
You have shown repeatedly that you have some sort of bee in your bonnet about me. I’m beginning to think you like the flavour of my fuel.
WN was talking about feeling more able to navigate get-togethers with the narcissists in her family. She is hoping other readers here can exercise the same, removed, analytical perspective so they, too, see the ‘claws’ between the ‘kisses.’ It is a valid response in a discussion about being victimised by cluster B predators.
On further thought, Jordyguin:
You have misinterpreted my comment. You are looking at it through *your* lens at the moment in time that you read it.
I remember the gist of several conversations I was involved in on the blog several years ago.
At the time, I was being criticised and my views were rejected (surprise, surprise) because I was told that it was ‘better’ to give people blunt and direct information and thereby give them ‘a blast of the truth’.
At the time, it was considered preferable that people here on the blog were spoken to in blunt and direct terms even if that was rude and insensitive by everyday conversational standards, rather than be ‘mollycoddled’ and spoken to with kindness, consideration and sensitivity.
Now, it appears the tables have turned.
The common denominator in both situations appears to be that my views are rejected and criticised according to the flavour of the month as determined by the guru followers.
You can analyse my comment at your will to the minutest detail you find appropriate in the moment. Knock yourself out.
Jordyguin,
If you think that WiserNow is a narc, why do you continue to interact with her? Shouldn’t you go no contact? You’re not following the first golden rule of freedom, once you know you go, get out and stay out. Instead you provoke further. Why?
Well what’s that proverb fool me once shame on you , fool me twice shame on me” It’s about personal responsibility. Even with education and knowledge we can fall back into contact with a narc or not let go. HG calls it an addiction. I feel human relations are complicated. I have loved mostly empaths and normals and had my heart broken and trouble letting go. Addiction? I married a diagnosed ASPD who I had a very good relationship with no drama, and a high standard of living. I would have stayed married but for the FBI investigation into his life. They called me in. I left because I was ignorant of any criminal activities and I wanted security from prosecution. Drama started upon leaving. I spent 9 years with a normal who I adored, loved but I didn’t want to marry. Mainly my focus and priorities were my children. I then met a narc. VERY different from the ASPD husband. I married him. Half of him maybe the executive function was everything I ever wanted. Great creative mind. Lots of common interests. A man I could talk to on a desert island and never be bored. Best sex ever for 10 years. Off the charts. But the other half, the broken child, I could not tolerate. Abusive. Once physically but then in all the ways HG describes. It’s hard to give up the half I loved. Easy to run from the half I could not tolerate. It’s not easy. Let’s say you love a doctor but he is a narc. He loves the opera, so do you, sex is great. You love his intellectual mind, admire his career, like the lifestyle but he abuses you. Let’s say he cheats. It’s still hard to give up the part you love being with him. You may meet a lovely normal who let’s say is an engineer who has no common interest with you and the sex is so so. But he is kind. You end up missing the doctor. Hope to find someone better. You are ok alone but you prefer being in a relationship. It’s not easy. And so some stay, I don’t judge. I get it. I am not sad for Joa, I admire her personal responsibility in saying this is the choice she makes ( if I got it right.) At least with HG’s education you know what’s going on. When I first got a silent treatment, I didn’t. I was panicked as I thought he had died or got injured. Once I learned, he just did a runner and was fine. I was horrified. Horrified at his selfishness and immaturity. After the third time he did it, he no longer was allowed back. I thought I could keep the good parts of him by living separate but things got complicated. I met someone else and my narc wasn’t open to living separate lives. After two years apart, He wanted all or nothing. I could not take him back and yet I have not met anyone since that I want to be with. I miss the good times but I won’t take him back. I get it:) life is filled with choices. I like being aware when I make mine whatever they may be wherever they may lead.
Hi Contagious,
You hit the nail on the head. Fool me twice, shame on me. That’s it in a nutshell. I won’t let any new narcs in so in that respect I won’t be fooled twice. But I’m still being fooled by the current narcs. That’s what I need to change.
In your scenario, I’m not picking the doctor or the engineer. Why can’t there be a third option of someone you have a common interest with who doesn’t abuse you? That’s the option I want.
Leigh, I went a little overboard. As I wrote, I was embittered.
I tend to exaggerate – in moments of high emotional intensity – happiness, sadness, bitterness, panic. A strong extract of emotions is created, which overloads the operating system 🙂
The knowledge gained here allowed me to say goodbye to stupid, non-existent love – after many years. I now have a reliable understanding of the situation. This is a great advantage. I also healed connections in other relationships.
The downside is that now I have to wear masks more often. I will probably never swim as deep and wide as I once did. Maybe I won’t swim at all. I’m not sure if that’s what I wanted 🙂
Well, I opened this gift and it penetrated every cell in my body. Removing it is probably impossible, some faint stain will always remain 🙂
It’s ok, Joa. I tend to exaggerate and can be dramatic as well.
What you said was true for me and I’m sure for others as well. I might have this knowledge and I wouldn’t change it for the world, but now I see the deceit and still don’t do much about it.
I know what you mean about wearing masks as well. Its all I do now too. I’ve become much more cynical and I keep everyone at an arm’s length.
I do long for the day though when I can show someone my complete, true self.
Leigh, yes, you wrote it beautifully. These could also be my words.
Total self-disclosure is no longer possible.
But I like giving puzzles. You can make me out of them. Although in a moment of panic, I will destroy this image and replace pieces of the puzzle with others.
Joa says, “Although in a moment of panic, I will destroy this image and replace pieces of the puzzle with others.”
Me too, Joa. Me too!
Hello Leigh.
You have adult children. So you’re past mid life. How many years do you think you have before advancing age starts to really limit you physically or mentally and I’m not asking this rhetorically. We all hit a point in our lives when can’t really afford ‘one day’ thoughts. We have to decide what matters to us and either take steps to achieve it or let it go as something that is unlikely or impossible given our circumstances. Some youthful dreams I’ve abandoned but other goals remain and new ones develop. I take steps to make them happen. I have to. I know I’ve got about 25 years where, unless I’m unlucky, I’m going to remain in full control of my life. That’s twenty-five years I’ve got to make the most of. I can’t afford to long for things. If I want something I’ve got to work out how to get it. Sometimes that means working out what obstacles are in the way. But waiting for something different doesn’t work.
I encourage you to take any bulls by their proverbial horns and evaluate what you want to do with the rest of your life.
Hello AA,
You’re correct, I’m passed mid life. You’re also correct that mental and physical acuity is something I need to consider. I am getting on in age and I prefer not to be homeless at this stage of the game. I’ve been in this relationship for nearly 40 years and I don’t want to lose half my assets. I don’t have enough time to start over and recoup them.
I also know I either do it or don’t do it. I can’t just wait and expect it to happen. I also know that once I make that decision I don’t have the right to complain about it.
Just so you know, when I write that I don’t want to wear a mask anymore, it’s not just about my husband, its about everyone. My guard is up and the mask is on 99.9% of the time. Quite honestly, at this point in my life, I don’t know if I could even operate without a mask. I trust so few people.
One last thing, I can long for something and be ok with not getting it. That’s life. We don’t always get what we want it life and sometimes we have to suck it up.
AA,
I wasn’t going to share this but I think you mean well so I’m going to give it a shot. If sharing my thoughts doesn’t work out, it will be a lesson learned for me.
I already feel like I’m not strong enough to do what I need to do. When you say I need to take the bull by the horns, you make it sound like it’s an easy task. That just feeds my thoughts that I’m not strong enough because since leaving is such an easy task, I should just do it already.
I know you mean well, AA. But you lacked some understanding and empathy in your comment. It’s wonderful that you can do whatever it takes to get what you want. It’s not so easy for me though.
I’m sorry you felt my response lacked empathy or understanding. I can be direct in my communication. If I’d not felt empathy I wouldn’t have said anything. It was because I felt it that I commented.
I cannot give you the kinds of responses others give you. I can only offer you my perspective and it will inevitably be in my direct style.
My life is not perfect. But I’m also past the point of middle age and I know I’ve got limited time left. I think of 40% of my responsibilities as being to myself and making sure I can die feeling like I gave my life a reasonably good shot.
I see assets as a pretty broad concept. But in regard to physical assets I’m planning how to manage them going forward. I don’t expect to be in the same house I’m in now, where I’ve lived for a pretty long time, in even ten years. I can’t be if I want to do the things I’d like to do. I will still have a place to live but it will be different. It will still be nice because I need a nice place to live to be happy.
It’s about, from my perspective, being practical. It’s not about being strong.
Again, I apologise that my direct approach made you feel bad. You’d said you feel you’re good enough and it was just other people who you believed didn’t see your value. It’s because I see your value that I am commenting.
AA, thank you for saying you see my value. I really do appreciate that. Since you read that comment you know that I prefer believing that people can’t see my value because it allows me to keep them at a distance. Its one of my defense mechanisms. Since I believe they don’t see me as good enough, I don’t give them all of me. This way its easier when they walk away because they didn’t get the full version of me anyway.
I like directness. I prefer to communicate that way myself. There’s one thing about directness though and there’s another in downplaying. That’s what if felt like for me. I felt like you were downplaying my situation. I don’t expect you to mollycoddle me either.
The other thing is that you took my comment about masks out of context a little bit. I really was talking about in general. I wear a mask 99.9% of the time. I don’t talk about these things in my real life. Leigh isn’t even my real name. I prefer being behind my wall almost always. Besides one empathetic friend, this blog is where I’m most open.
As for assets, I mean my home and my money. Half would go to my husband should I decide to leave. Well actually, less than half because the lawyers would suck up a lot of it beforehand.
To me, I am being practical. I think its practical to have a roof over my head, money in the bank and being able to retire at a reasonable age. I wouldn’t be able to do that if I divorced my husband and he took half.
One last thing, again, I think its ok to long for something and not get it. Sometimes that’s what happens in life and you just gotta get over it.
“AA, thank you for saying you see my value. I really do appreciate that.”
That’s good to hear.
“Since you read that comment you know that I prefer believing that people can’t see my value because it allows me to keep them at a distance. Its one of my defense mechanisms. Since I believe they don’t see me as good enough, I don’t give them all of me. This way it’s easier when they walk away because they didn’t get the full version of me anyway.”
I sometimes think about people I know who give all of themselves. They have a lot of trust in others. If they are walked away from they immediately assume the other person had their reasons (legitimate or less so – but ultimately irrelevant) and that their worth is undiminished and they will find someone else. I admire these people enormously and strive to be similar even if it’s not as natural an instinct for me. I remind myself that about 80% of people are pretty trustworthy and reliable. That’s a big number. The 20% might take up a lot of space but there are ultimately fewer of them.
“I like directness. I prefer to communicate that way myself.”
I do see directness in some of your posts.
“There’s one thing about directness though and there’s another in downplaying. “
I would see these as two distinct approaches, which can exist separately or at the same time.
“That’s what if felt like for me. I felt like you were downplaying my situation. “
I’m sorry you felt that.
“I don’t expect you to mollycoddle me either.”
Alright.
“The other thing is that you took my comment about masks out of context a little bit. I really was talking about in general. I wear a mask 99.9% of the time. “
I don’t think I referred to masks. I responded mainly to your comment about longing. You were discussing masks with WN and maybe joa. I wasn’t really talking about masks.
“I don’t talk about these things in my real life. Leigh isn’t even my real name. “
I’d say that makes you very similar to many others here.
“I prefer being behind my wall almost always. Besides one empathetic friend, this blog is where I’m most open.”
It’s clear you feel very comfortable with several readers here (and HG) which enables you to speak openly. It’s lovely that you feel that level of comfort.
“As for assets, I mean my home and my money. “
I understand that’s what you mean. I was just saying that I tend to think of sssets as being more than those things. The others are the assets lawyers don’t concern themselves with: health, happiness, enthusiasm, ‘joi de Vivre’, stimulation of various kinds, valued relationships..etc. I consider them all as assets needing some management.
I think when myself or others here (including HG) make sounds of encouragement for you to make any changes they have in mind all these different types of assets, some of which are probably clashing with the assets you want to preserve.
“Half would go to my husband should I decide to leave. Well actually, less than half because the lawyers would suck up a lot of it beforehand.”
True, any divorce will result in a division of assets. One person wouldn’t get everything.
I of course don’t know how amazing your house is. It might be a very wonderful and ideal house.
You’ve mentioned potentially becoming homeless. I don’t really understand how your two alternatives (how you live now and homelessness) are so far apart. I see quite a few options between these extremes. If you currently live in wonderful house, I have to believe half of it would enable the purchase of an average house.
“To me, I am being practical. I think it’s practical to have a roof over my head, money in the bank and being able to retire at a reasonable age. “
It’s absolutely practical to want a roof, money in the bank and a reasonable retirement age. All those things are in my mind too, and they’re very important.
“I wouldn’t be able to do that if I divorced my husband and he took half.”
I cannot know the state of you and your husbands’ finances or assets.
But many, many people divorce. In its purest form, the aim is to untangle a relationship while ensuring no party is left destitute, even though all will have to make some sacrifices.
Anyway, I don’t want to keep on about it. You are aware of all this, I know. And it’s much easier for me looking in from outside to see it with a particular perspective.
I do understand your explanation of your concerns and what’s important to you. Thankyou for reading my posts. I appreciate it.
“One last thing, again, I think its ok to long for something and not get it. Sometimes that’s what happens in life and you just gotta get over it.”
You wrote something similar your previous post. If getting over it means letting it go and not longing for it anymore, then I definitely agree with you. I’m not a big fan of longing overall.
AA,
Sometimes I can be a bit dramatic and I can exaggerate a bit. I wouldn’t be homeless. Of course I would find a home. I’m the main bread winner in my relationship. My fear is more about when I’m older. When he gets half, how long will it take me to recoup it? That’s what worries me.
“Health, happiness, enthusiasm, ‘joi de Vivre’, stimulation of various kinds, valued relationships” – In the past, I didn’t worry much about those things. They are becoming more important now though. I am actually genuinely happy. Like I said, I can be a bit dramatic sometimes. But for the most part, other than the situation with my husband, I’m happy with my life. Health is a top priority for me as well. Without good health, nothing else matters.
As for my trust issues, those run deep. My father left when I was 14 without saying goodbye. I woke up and he was gone. I didn’t know if he was dead or alive. I didn’t see him again for 5 years. That one event changed everything for me. My worth is undiminished when people walk away from me too. They didn’t see the whole me so it doesn’t matter. I’m loosely attached to people and I only put effort into a few relationships. One is my daughter and one is an empathic friend, the rest are kept at an arm’s length.
I can go either way with regards to longing. Sometimes the longing gives me hope. Sometimes I have to get over it.
Hi AA,
I just wanted to clear up one thing. I’m not a showy person at all. My house is old and quaint and desperately needs updating. I don’t need to keep the home because its big and beautiful. Its not really about the house itself, its about the value of the house. Because of where I live, even though the house is small and not in great shape, it still holds a lot of value. I don’t need much. I’m very happy with simple. My car is 15 years old and I’ll keep it for as long as I can. I try not to spend money unless absolutely necessary. I will use things until they can no longer be repaired.
I’m sharing because I wanted you to understand my outlook.
The offer to hold my tongue – expired. Big Brother is watching and Gulag will seem like a summer camp after this!
No, in full seriousness Leigh, don’t turn into a cryptic emoji whiner under the influence of a chronic complainer unless you want to end up insulting HG’s shorts for exploiting HG’s legs being the seat of power to conquer the world… Oh there’s a lovely force in my statement though🔥 with a tiny exception of the seat of power resting in the brilliant mind which designed escape routes for all empaths in the world!
Leigh, you should never enter a battle which you can’t win but in your circumstance you should know that actually you can win. You can always retreat and recharge your resources whilst slowly exiting the spheres of influence. What will deplete your resources however – instead of recharging them – is your own punishment of yourself for not being able to do what you should have already done easily. It’s absolutely not an easy task to take back freedom, otherwise we’d all be free by. But bit by bit everyone can achieve it because your empathic power has the high ground and you have an adviser whose pride lies in his magnificent work and intention of helping you to succeed!
P.S.: I don’t expect any response or a life sign (and wouldn’t suggest you give it). The building stone of this blog is freedom of speech thus I can give unwanted advice to whomever I choose to. Don’t let people pull you in their direction by praising your trait of honesty having the potential of being regarded as ‘treachery’. Wouldn’t be the first time someone reached out for the vulnerable to pull into some sort of camp of rebellion of this blog author’s tyranny.
Hi Jordy,
Yes, this a public blog and I don’t have the right to say you can’t comment on one of my comments. Since I shared, I knew a response may come. I wouldn’t necessarily call it unwanted advice. Even if it doesn’t help me, it could inspire or give hope to another blogger. Its up to the individual bloggers to decide if its unwanted or not.
I know I have Mr. Tudor on my side for when I need him. Mr. Tudor has already helped me in many ways.
Leigh, that’s lovely of you to write and good to know that you are aware to have Mr. Tudor on your side, which I thought you forgot when playing along to the ideas and scenarios a certain reader had spun in relation to this blog and Mr. Tudor.
Hi Jordy,
Knowing that I have Mr. Tudor on my side doesn’t mean I don’t agree with WiserNow with regards to keeping my mouth shut. I agree that sometimes its best to hold my tongue.
Hi Leigh,
I understand what you mean and I agree with you and WiserNow about “keeping the mouth shut” in certain situations or interactions. Which doesn’t mean that I didn’t get the implications WN was making through the connections she made.
Congrats Joa! I am not poetic like you but I am proud to announce that after a legal separation of 6 years, I finally got a divorce. He finally agreed to a walk away, no money. It won’t be final as UK law waits 6 months but it was “ conditionally approved.” I would have stayed married but living in separate countries until death if I had to give up half! It was a long term marriage. I feel weird. I am single! I don’t want a divorce party but I do feel like I am back when I was young with the whole world open again. I am in no rush but I am relationship oriented. I don’t see myself self wearing a mask but rather wearing a stethoscope… is your heart beating? Are you STABLE? Are you empathetic? Will you respect me? There’s 4.5 billion potentials and I have knowledge now I didn’t back then. I have only had one narc in my life and one is more than enough. Sigh. Fingers crossed. Someday…my best!
Contagious and JOA,
Congrats to you both on your freedom! Have a celebration for what you both accomplished! I’m really happy for you both! Xx
Hi Contagious,
You’ve mashed up myself and Joa, lol. Joa is the one who writes poetically but she’s single. I’m Leigh and I married and with the same man for nearly 40 years.
You gave me an interesting thought though. I could leave and stay married. Then I don’t have to give up half.
I really have no desire to ever date again. But on the off chance I do start to date and I consider getting serious with someone, they would have to be vetted through Mr. Tudor first. If they don’t agree, they’re gone.
I definitely have a stethoscope too but I still wouldn’t want to chance it. I have too many narcs in my life already and I’d want the number to go down. Mr. Tudor would be able to see it before I could.
I’m so happy for you, Contagious! Congratulations and Best Wishes! It’s wonderful news!
Well done, Contagious. That’s great news! Best wishes to you going forward.
Ohhhh Leigh: I totally get it. I would have stayed married forever before I would give up half of everything! I even consulted with HG on it! I was “lucky” in that I got legal separation papers and lived 6000 miles away. But he still got to me through 3rd parties: medical, police, a friend. I stopped responding. I have a close friend in the same boat. But I get it… totally… it’s an individual choice…and I can’t tell you that my life is now so “ solved.” But I have one problem gone. I no longer have to fear that I could lose half. Well… 6 months until final. And I plan on being much smarter with the next one! Best wishes Leigh and thanks for your support!
Thank you for your understanding and support as well, Contagious! I really appreciate it!
Hi Joa,
You hit it on the head, I used to feel this way so much also. Right down to the last line, the invite for them to help me. I’m hopeful, haha, that things are different now.
Three times, possibly four, I know it has happened, I was spotted. Three times, four if it is true, I fell for it. We can use what we’ve learned here though. If we can’t, what’s been the point? I know we can, others have.
For me, a matter of accepting non-narc as exciting enough to want in my life. And finding one of the right age, place, compatibility etc. If not, I remain single, that is okay too. Better than the narc excitement, I never want that again.
We are not victims unless we allow it. As you know.
AV, don’t worry, I’ve been single for 18 years and I don’t think that will ever change. I value the peace of my home too much.
A close relationship, day after day, with anyone – is not for me. Thank you, I won’t get caught up in this 🙂
Victim, doormat – these are just terms. In fact, these terms change nothing and contribute nothing. Like any generalizing term – referring to a multi-layered person.
I greet you very warmly and I hope that life brings you good things 🙂
Hi Joa, just seeing your reply to me now. Thank you for it, once again we see things similarly.
You are one here who I don’t worry about, you’re about as level- headed, and observant, as they come, from what I’ve seen, and I appreciate it!
I am doing well, thanks, and thanks for the warm greeting. I hope you and yours are well and it is a pleasure to see you here! 🙂
Joa,
How long are you going to let them keep taking from you? There’s a difference between giving of yourself freely and being taken from.
We often feel like we are fighting when in actual fact we are giving in. Laying down and playing dead. Get up Joa. The trash needs taking out.
https://youtu.be/hn3wJ1_1Zsg?si=aBVUdyQhTLFDLluM
Xx
Thank you TS.
Of course, I know this song, although I don’t notice any similarities 🙂 My daughter and my mother like it – so I do too.
If I had to describe myself by a song, I would probably choose a niche one. Unfortunately, in Polish, you need to turn on translation.
“…And yet I prefer to feel every nerve on my body. And I prefer to close my eyes, although sometimes you can see a lot…”
https://youtu.be/1Qq_-9T2S9Q?si=s-K99ne1DXc2ya7S
Joa, I hope you’re okay again, nevertheless the undercurrent of your various comments comes from chronic unhappiness and might be better addressed with a professional. The purpose of HG’s work and this blog is to teach people about narcissism and psychopathy and for some people it’s enough help and they don’t need any further help, but some people need professional therapy on top of this. Aside from psychological/physical trauma it’s sometimes an issue with chemicals in the brain which lead to chronic depressive states which professionals can also detect and successfully solve. Last but not least, HG once said in an interview that a person who writes long posts about their lives without any question in relation to the topic could have spent their time talking to themselves in the mirror. Taking advantage of HG’s generosity and dumping all what goes on in one’s life and head is also better addressed in sessions where people are paid for their time/their attentive investment and are equipped to help with professional advice on how to handle the issues which are visible from your contributions, but will remain unaddressed since your fellow readers are not equipped to actually deal with your personal situation to a degree where you can be helped, longterm.
On a personal level, I would say; give yourself permission to be happy and don’t wait for anyone else to come and give you that permission (generated pattern of ACON’s in their past). It’s easier said than done and again a professional can assist you with this in detail, successfully. Your psyche is just as important as finding a perfect new car, if not more important and needs the same level of investment you can afford to spend your time on. I wish you success and healing and I’m sure you can achieve this outcome.
Joa’s comments don’t suggest she needs a psychologist (although I recommend psychologists to everyone because sharing inner thoughts with someone else who can see them objectively and identify any skewed angles is very valuable) and what she’s describing is ordinary tricky stuff about being a person in the world. She’s posted in this thread because she recognises that she’s been ‘smelt’ out by narcissists and she’s still trying to work out how to stop this happening while engaging with life. She wonders if she can still engage if she has to have some barriers up. Plus she’s got to buy a new car and the process is pissing her off….
It pains me to say it but you have been a bully in this thread, Jordy. 🙁
Annaamel, how can you not feel that Joa is caught up in melancholic states repeatedly and uses self-defeating sentences in many of her comments, and not just here on this thread? How can you not feel that she’s seething inside and grativates towards isolation and seeing this world as a cruel and desolate place? How can you not feel that it’s not something trivial and that she is hunted by her traumatic experiences, and is led by her sensitivity towards the abyss of the dark side of things? How can you not feel that she is presenting a facade of ’all is fine’ but nothing is fine? How can you not feel that just by reassuring her that she is a great human being, it doesn’t bring her relief? How can you not feel that she is reaching out in her own way and shuts down in her own way and can’t find a way out? How can you not feel all of that??
…Forgive me Annaamel, but I have difficulties believing that “it pains” you…
Forgive me Annaamel, but I have difficulties believing that “it pains” you…’
I’m sorry you doubt it. It did pain me to write that. I’ve tried a few times to dissuade you from posts where you’re dismissive towards other commenters, but not had much impact. Frankly, I’m more concerned about you at the moment than any other readers.
What do you want me to change?
I’d like you to complete the ED. Do you know your schools and cadres and percentages of each?
But how will it ease your concern?
Do you know your results?
If so, I probably wouldn’t share… Are you concerned I have the potential to join the dark side? You don’t need to be. It’s a learning platform and I could describe it as: one learns here in one life what one would usually learn throughout many different lives.
I noticed our conversation was becoming a bit Waiting for Godot so I’m glad you responded with several lines. I’m going to write several more now.
I’m not concerned about you being a narcissist. I still expect you to be in the empath group.
When you asked me what I wanted you to change I wasn’t sure how to respond or whether it was even worth responding. It didn’t seem like a genuine question where you wanted a genuine answer. I understand if you feel angry at me. But I will tell you the two concerns I have.
I believe you are (or have been) angry or frustrated about something. If you were feeling good I can’t imagine other readers’ posts would bother you to the degree where you’d criticise or insult their comments.
My other concern is that I think you’ve become co-dependent on HG.
I’m well aware that you may strongly disagree with my assessments.
If you do or have done the ED I am not expecting or asking you to share results. I’m just asking if you know them.
I think it’s important that you know them.
“It’s a learning platform and I could describe it as: one learns here in one life what one would usually learn throughout many different lives.”
One aspect of this blog is as a learning platform. It’s also a social platform and an interaction platform. We’re not just learning here. We’re engaging with other people. We have to give them our best.
Dear Annaamel, I’m not angry at you, far from it. Thank you for your thoughtful post!!
“We have to give them our best.” — wisest words!🧡🌷
Annaamel, I wanted to give you a more detailed reply but didn’t have the opportunity at that moment. I hope this finds you well.
Gaining more awareness about oneself and the topics discussed here is a process which can include differing and also changing perspectives, standpoints, moods and so on. Everyone is seeking progress either way and the transformation process is distributed along various stops and is ongoing.
Learning from HG and how he deals with all sorts of comments, makes me realise that he lives by the examples which he teaches, which I shall seek to adapt to my own communication style in some situations.
As of “have become codependent on HG”. I for sure am addicted to brilliance and HG symbolises many different aspects and roles which all cater to my need of understanding life. I would say it’s the case for most of HG’s readers, clients and followers.
I would like to share with you HG’s comment which addresses your concerns and I hope this reply helps resolve them.
HG Tudor says:
Of all the many readers that comment here (and on other platforms) I would say that :-
1. Some arrive, extract what they need and move on and do not return;
2. Some arrive, extract what they need, move on but periodically dip back in to remind themselves of why they are doing what they are doing;
3. Some arrive, extract what they need and then remain because they feel robust enough to do so and they enjoy the interaction and then learning more about the condition as a whole and/or learning more about me, my life, my ‘creation’ and my ongoing treatment;
4. A few recognise when it becomes too much for them and take a break and then return when they feel reader
5. A small number are no doubt substituting me for their narc in a ‘safer’ way and this may cause them to not progress as much as they might but they still do so.
From discussions I have had with people privately on this issue, it is clear that people find a level for themselves and either decide they have what they need and they can move on or that they have what they need and feel able to remain because they have become robust enough and it is not having any adverse impact. If need be, you could decide to limit your time to say an hour a day or such like and gauge it from there. You know yourself better than anybody else.
You’re gaslighting me here, Jordy. Rather than engage with my concerns about your responses to other readers you’re suggesting I might not be robust enough for this blog and should limit myself to an hour a day and see how it goes.
Annaamel, this were the concerns that you shared with me:
“But I will tell you the two concerns I have.
I believe you are (or have been) angry or frustrated about something. If you were feeling good I can’t imagine other readers’ posts would bother you to the degree where you’d criticise or insult their comments.
My other concern is that I think you’ve become co-dependent on HG.”
The first portion of my reply to you explained my view in relation to the engagement on the blog. I see it as an ongoing transformational process, for everyone who joins. I agree with your observation that “We have to give them our best” – it’s a very wise approach. However “our best” will depend on the moment, the emotional state, perspectives, beliefs and standpoints. “Our best” can come from our narcissistic traits and from our empathic traits.
The second portion of my reply engaged with your second concern “codependent on HG”. It has nothing to do with you nor implying anything about you. It’s about what I’m aware of when I’m on the blog and that you shouldn’t be concerned in that regard. The different types and approaches HG listed are applicable to me, to you, to everyone, and HG’s reply is helpful to take it into account and look where one fits in that list and what can be done about it should the necessity arise to adjust.
Our best is our best, Jordy. From my perspective this comes from recognising our strengths and amplifying them and knowing our weaknesses or vulnerabilities and minimising their impact. Knowledge and recognition is step 1. Working to self manage is step 2.
As to what I’m concerned about it’s essentially people being unfair to others. That will draw me into conversations that I’d otherwise simply read. Telling me to become more robust or ignore unfairness (rather than address potential unfairness) is putting the responsibility on me to make a change.
Jordyguin, thank you for your reply.
I probably must have been chronically unhappy since early childhood 🙂
In this particular case, which caused a temporary upset of my entire organism and an outflow of spasm, the psychotherapist would have to teach me:
– how to accept the fact, that a close friend may cheat me for a quick profit,
– how to pretend to believe, when you don’t believe,
– an effective course in effective lying,
– how to stop telling the truth,
– how to get rid of half your brain and be a dumber woman?
– how to overcome your astonishment at the shocking creativity of scammers,
– how to pretend not to notice the seller’s fear and nervousness,
– how to get rid of caring gestures towards a seller, who is clumsily trying to cheat you (ha ha ha),
– why don’t people care, that they cheat?
– how not to have your own opinion and preferences and uncritically accept unwanted help?
– how to stay stoic, when you say NO and they hear YES?
– how to smile so as not to encourage people to come into my life with dirty shoes?
– how to stop smiling, when I want to smile?
– how to die halfway?
If a psychotherapist teaches me to blend into this representative crowd, my problems will be solved. I will die, I will disappear and I will no longer exist. It will be a trouble-free machine.
Yes, I agree – I spend a lot of time in front of the mirror. And I don’t talk to anyone more than myself (a constant process), although I talk to real people every day and a lot.
Should I write about myself? I can write about politics here, I can write about the weather, I can write about celebrities, and maybe about Meghan Merkle.
I believe that people should focus more on themselves, than on others. Finally stop running away from yourself. Then the world could be more beautiful 🙂
Talk to me about yourself, show me yourself – I talk to you about myself, I show you myself – this has the greatest value in life.
If you think I’m not talking about narcissism right now. You’re wrong.
—–
Thank you Jordyguin, I got over my disappointment with people/the world and rested. I supplemented my technical and legal knowledge, and especially the database of possible frauds.
Soon it will be just a distant memory.
—–
Again, I apologize for cluttering the thread with my personal matters – I tried to answer everyone.
Dear Joa, I think you write because it helps you to let things out and has a momentary effect of relief. From my experience, sometimes it can help if you have a real actual witness who listens to you and has a detached view of one’s problems and challenges in life. And it’s even better if this person has some knowledge and experience in helping people to move on from trauma and sort things out. It can be a professional or a good friend. Though friends are rarely detached and also rarely equipped with psychological knowledge about how to help others who’ve been through traumatic experiences or narcissistic relationships (and if they are, it’s a jackpot). As a majority Codependent you most likely carry a burden of taking all in and never asking for help. And you confirmed that you’ve been coping on your own the whole time… But asking for help is normal. You don’t have to find all the answers or solutions on your own…
The particular case you described; it speaks of overwhelm and accumulated overwhelm of the “normal” world around you. The solutions which you presented and have in mind for a therapist to teach you, well I’m sure he or she would have some good advice in that regard…
May I ask, have you ever considered a consultation with HG?? You seem to trust him, otherwise you wouldn’t be pouring your heart and soul out on his platform. So why not ask him for advice on how to deal with the narcissistic world around you? HG is our guide through the narcissistic world, you know…