Freedom Fighter – Part One

 

Image result for picture of woman breaking chains

 

When you see a friend or a family member in our grip, what do you do?

I do not mean the instance where you see your replacement as intimate partner, somebody who is often a stranger to you, but occasionally might be somebody that you already know. Tempting as it may be, in such an instance, where you do not know your replacement and no matter how much you feel that you ought to warn this person, you are wasting your time.

The charming of the new victim is so intense and the smearing of you as the discarded replacement means that your chances of persuading the new victim that we are what we really are, amount to almost nil.

In such a situation you have your own defences to consider and you must leave the new victim to determine their own fate, harsh and heartless as it may sound, there is little hope for anything else.

But what of the situation where you had no or little prior involvement with our kind and you certainly had not been ensnared by us? What then where we snake our tendrils towards somebody that you care about?

It may be the case that you are sufficiently aware (and thus in a rare group of those who are so alter and observant) that you identify the person that you care about is in the midst of our seduction. You recognise the red flag (most likely because you have experienced themselves) and now you see them again, but applicable to your friend or family member. This might be that: –

–         You struggle to get to spend any time with this person because we monopolise their time;

–         They talk incessantly about us and how wonderful we are, making reference to how quickly we have fallen in love with them, how we want to whisk them away on a holiday within weeks of meeting or even noises are being made about engagement and/or living together with undue haste;

–         Your friend exhibits that starry-eyed, breathless and almost hypnotic reaction to our charm offensive;

–         Everything appears to revolve around us, they talk about what we do, what we want to do with them and what we have been doing.

You recognise the behaviours all too well. Both in terms of have the insidious tentacles of our kind are snaking around this person and also in terms of how they react.

You know what lies ahead. You know the illusion will be woven thicker, deeper and more tightly around our victim. You know how it will all turn sour as the devaluation begins and the abuse is unleashed. As undoubtedly an empathic person you have the overwhelming desire to want to help this person. You also feel obligated to share the knowledge, the “Narc Craft” which you have acquired. You may even feel evangelical about the need to prise open our grip and allow this person to be freed.

If you do decide to help, what hurdles will you face?

 

  1. The façade. We will have a ready-made façade of Lieutenants and members of our coterie who will only be too happy to vouch for us. These people will confirm what a great person we are, kind, honourable and how much we adore the person you are hoping to free. Not only will you be told this in order to unnerve and de-rail your attempt to secure this person’s freedom, but the target will be repeatedly exposed to this propaganda. It is your word against the word of many. You face an uphill battle in that regard;
  2. The addictive nature of the love-bombing. Everybody likes to be treated well. If a person is swept off their feet, treated like a queen, placed on a pedestal, complimented, feted, wooed, provided with treats and gifts, exposed to repeated delights and such like, what is there not to like? Who would ever want to give that up? This power of our charm, magnetism and love-bombing make it very difficult for the victim to say no and give up what is being offered to them.
  3. The mirroring. I have often explained that because of our mirroring that you fall in love with yourself. This is so compelling that should you try to intervene to halt this, then you are deny somebody themselves. That is difficult to achieve.
  4. Our ubiquity. In order to try to persuade the person that you care about that we are something other than we appear to be, you need to gain time with them to do this. We monopolise their time, either through our presence, our telephone calls, the creation of ever presence, our texting and the use of proxy behaviours through our lieutenants and our coterie. You are outnumbered and it makes your task all the more arduous.
  5. Smear. You will be smeared. When we arrive in the life of one of our victims we also like to charm those around this person. This is to bolster the façade and it is also to ensure that there are no hindrances to our seduction. We are adept at identifying those who are suspicious of our motives, those who are wary of our behaviour and who may well brief against us. Since we can detect this promptly, we will take steps to isolate you from our victim. Not only that, we will smear you in a variety of ways

–         You are jealous of what we and the victim have and we will invent conversations where that has been said;

–         You made a pass at us even though you knew we were with your friend/sister/cousin etc. Once again this is fabricated but we do this with such conviction based on our knowledge and experience that the victim nearly always takes our word over that of somebody else

–         You are trying to control the victim. A classic piece of projection where we suggest that you, as the intervening factor, are always seeking to control this person’s life. Of course you are only trying to do the right thing, but we shall paint this in a completely different light.

  1. We often select those victims who have suffered in some way previously. As a consequence, this means that the victim is ever so grateful to now have somebody as doting and kind as us. The very weakness which led to them suffering previously is exploited once again, causing them to cling tighter to us and to move away from you.
  2. Gullible. Most people are gullible. They wish to think well of people, they take people at face-value and this makes them vulnerable.
  3. Pre-empting. We identify that you are a troublemaker, someone who may try to thwart our ambitions with the victim. Accordingly, we tell the victim what we anticipate you will say about us. We may even admit to some of the things that we know you will say about us in order to demonstrate that we have nothing to hide. This endears us to our victim and also allows them to tell you, as their prospective freedom fighter, that we have already admitted to the allegation and explained why it happened. Thus the sting and heat is removed from your potential disclosure.

Faced with these hurdles, a determined and experienced opponent in us and a seemingly supine victim it is entirely understandable if you were to decide that there is no hope and you shall just have to let the matter run its course in the same way you would when you see your replacement being ensnared.

You have an advantage however.

This time you know the victim well. They know you well. They trust you.

Invariably you will only have one attempt to make them see the light. Repeated attempts to persuade them only causes you to play into our hands as the crazy-making and jealous best friend or the controlling parent.

Whereas your replacement will regard you with suspicion, the person you care about will at least listen to you. Much in the same way as dealing with a smear campaign you need to allow the victim to make their own decision. To that end you need to: –

  1. Explain the behaviours you have identified as problematic;
  2. Explain why you know them to be problematic (e.g. based on your own experience, material you have read)
  3. Explain you are stating this purely because you care and you respect that it is the person’s life so you are only going to mention it the once;
  4. Show to them independent material (in a succinct form) which shows how the various behaviour are narcissistic in nature and part of the seduction;
  5. Invite the person to flush our behaviour out by asking certain question (see the Exposed articles part one and two for more on this)

This approach may buy them time to question what is happening. This will give them the time to reflect and work it out for themselves. If they do not see it, repeating it will make no difference, the brainwashing has been effective already and you will end up alienating yourself.

By planting a seed of consideration, reflection and doubt, you may well cause this delay to the seduction to bring out a glimpse of our true selves from behind the mask, especially if the narcissist is a Lesser or Mid-Range. The challenge to their assumed flawless seduction, the hindrance to the otherwise predicted ensnarement and their lack of control compared to a Greater may well result in the mask slipping at an early juncture, the ignition of fury and evidence of us lashing out. That will be likely to be a clincher in allowing you to adopt a smug smile and declare,

“What did I tell you?”

You do have the chance to be a freedom fighter. The window of opportunity is slim and the odds are stacked against you, but you can succeed.

If you fail on the first attempt, do not labour the point. A second bite of the cherry will not prove fruitful and you will actually cripple your ability to assist the person you care about during devaluation. Instead, be ready to be there to catch this person when the golden period ends and the devaluation commences. You may have done enough to ensure that when the battle field alters when devaluation starts that you have more than a fighting chance to secure this person’s freedom then.

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186 thoughts on “Freedom Fighter – Part One”

  1. Hey ABB, pass me the tequila. What’s your poison? ****Bartending, mixing sounds, glasses clinking, ice falling into glass****

    1. Indy,
      You will have my last response. My other one is locked down, moderating or modified or worthless.
      I was pineapple, prickly pear patron Margaritas day b4 yesterday, and yesterday ciroc peach and cranberry. Double shotted. I am on my way right now to Detroit for 2 months. I will be off this blog because I am misunderstood. So I don’t belong. Nice people here but I am obviously not good at expressing myself. It was fun and I wish everyone the best. Maybe someone will understand that just because I hold certain labels I am a good person and only wish others love and happiness. So if I am not conducive to those then my being here is pointless. All the best!

      1. ABB, ☹️😔
        I believe you have a strong place here. You survived narcicists and you have also a unique perspective on having awareness for some sociopathic tendencies. That is sooooo valuable here, for many reasons. You call BS when needed, I will so miss that!!!! You are intelligent, insightful, real, creative and hilarious. I will miss all that.
        I hope you either change your mind or visit and give HG a hard time every now and then. I believe he can handle it and I know there are those of us that will miss your wit and BS detector. Screw those that don’t get you! Shit, I know some that likely think what I say is annoying and disagree with me. It’s cool. Everyone has an opinion, right!

        Hugssss to my favorite dea agent 😉🍺🍺🍺Hav a safe trip hon!
        Indy

      1. ABB, my prayers about your father. Do come back. You’re very funny. I thought the comment about you being held back in chains and ripping and killing were hilarious. ❤ ❤

  2. Everyone…..
    This whole thread was hilarious. I really was drunk posting, emailing texting…met some unknown people on 3rd street….bar owner was nice. Ciroc peach and cranberry is delicious but sneaks up on you when you didn’t know you were getting double shots…lol. So anything I wrote last night, kindly erase and realize I love everyone here and I want nobody to leave and all I ever wanted was to sit back and enjoy the show and to encourage people and had nothing but love and laughter for all y”all. I hoped all your questions were answered and your dreams came true. Alas I have disappointed everyone again. For this i am sorry.
    HG,
    You get a separate paragraph because you are special. I wanted to be your friend. I wanted to learn from you. I wanted to give you an interchange that is worthy of your respect. I know however, that you don’t want these same things from me. I am just another faulty appliance who deserves nothing. I know you have enough fuel here to keep your tank filled. So, I will be the one to go. It seems many take me the wrong way anyway and i am not liked very much. I won’t say deal? As you don’t make deals. I don’t want to drive people away from you. Someone said sociopathic women are a problem. Maybe I am too much of a problem for your blog. I did have fun while it lasted. Sorry i let you and everyone else down. Thanks HG.
    ABB – Sociopathic Tendencies Extraordinaire……Empathic Wonder twin. PTSD Exhibitor & Survivor of the Big 3 Abuses.

    1. It is entirely a matter for you ABB but you should feel no compulsion to depart. Nobody is being driven away because of you. I do not regard you as a problem.

    2. ABB…I hope you are still around. I will miss you. Take care of yourself. It has been awesome talking to you. I hope your dad recovers, and when I am in the D, I will wave a hello to you, just in case you are in town too. Cheers.

    1. HI ???!!
      Hahahaha, yes! I knew someone else that said the same thing and read it as such! Love it!

      Hi DC79,
      Its not stupid! I think that is a beautiful quality in you. And, often the most simple thing (cognitively) can be the hardest to do, particularly when in crisis. DBT is built on that concept. We often have many skills that we do not realize. DBT gives it a name and structure.

  3. Question for the sisterwives (and mayhap brotherwives too ;0)) who are in deep lust/love with our brilliant teacher:
    I can understand the lure of him: a highly intelligent mysterious and dangerous man with most likely great looks and physique to boot, who can seduce you and turn your life upside down in a blink of an eye. What I do not understand is having sexual fantasies about him when he has written on multiple occasions that he does not like to be touched and sex is just a means to an end. I have no doubt of his sexual prowess, yet he has enlightened me on the fact that his kind are not sexual beings. As givers, we hone in on a person’s desires – and we wish to fulfill their fantasies. So without this hunger, I’m curious as to what you are fantasizing about.

      1. I do not fantasise at all as I don’t know the future. I do not need to fantasise…I dream 😉 I’m happily ensnared by Him even if He hasn’t intended that. I admire Him for who He is and I am attracted to Him, as intellect can be extremely attractive. I’m greatefull that He wrote the blog and books because thanks to Him I understood everything. He guided me well and tought me well. He knows that I’d respect His narcissistic ways and for of physical contact: if he’d like to seduce me he knows how to obtain the extreme fuel during sex… there would be never a move towards Him as I knew from His books that he dislike physical contact. I want Him to turn my life upside down too…I am I assume strong co-dependant who needs a strong Leader and someone to control my moves…my life… call me a emotional masochist if You wish despite me not being one 🙂 ps. Sorry G.for talking about You as third party.

    1. I will take this on. The fantasy is to have sex, no questions, no answer. Raw. Without emotions of love but of physical prowling and devouring the physical aspect of the act. The purest of an action of what we are. We are sexual beings. We muddle the act with emotions.

      As HG stated, we equate sex with love. I have been guilty of this in my life because we live in a society that says we should love to have sex. I am over it. I like it, and I want it.

      It is not necessarily about HG. I do not know him and never will. But he has brought to light, for me, the realization of what I want without guilt. I have been told I am a man in a woman’s body when it comes to sex. As I like the physical act.

      Do I just want to go fuck just anyone? No, I do not. I must have the chemistry, and I will smell it from across the room.

      His beast has let me see my own. She is a very sexual force, and I am tired of letting society define my desires.

      He has just raised the door, and if he was standing there and I liked how he smelled, I would devour him and then kick him the hell out so I could rest.

      I have secretly been this way, and I use to go hunting. It was such a thrill.

      The rest of the post is all sarcasm. Really. I do not love him; no one is going to join the ten wives club, no one really gives a damn.

      I have lust. I am lustful. >

  4. Hi SA,
    Hugssss….Wasn’t sure if your book referral was for me, though I happily aoprecate it and will look it up. Yeah, I do repeat my lessons for sure, each time with small improvements. So, I’m moving in the right direction haha. The narcicists get trickier and smarter each time I’m with one. The first, if we use HG terminology, was a lesser , the second was likely a mix of narcicist and bpd, the third and recent that led me here was upper midrange and the most mentally manipulative. I have a thing for those with brains and a need for healing (addicts). So, people recovering from addictions are now off limits for me because to a weakness of mine. That’s how it always starts…

    With regard to therapy, already ahead of ya, been in it for years off and on. At times for coping with intense emotions, other times relationships and still other times for growth and personal as well as professional development. With tha said, it’s hard to find the right match. And it takes guts to go. This is why my hat is off to all those here who talk of going(bonus points for DBTers 😉 And, I realize it takes guts too for our dear blog creator and author, HG. And yes, self worth is always a goal…🙃

    Which leads me to a question for HG: what orientation or combo of orientations do DrE and DrO ascribe to (i.e. Humanistic, psychoanalytic, existential, behavioristic, cognitive, or a mix) And, will we ever know their names?

    1. Psychoanalytic and cognitive are the predominant ones.
      Will you ever know their names? Maybe although I see no need, the spotlight stays on me, not those two.

      1. I’m curious if they are well known in their field, if they are creating a novel treatment, etc….if it is helpful, it’s good to know as it will improve the lives of others (from my perspective of course)

        With that said, indeed, you are the focus here.

      2. You haven’t written about any of your sessions revently with Dr. E or Dr. O. Wondering with some of your upcoming books on delicate topics with MatriNarc, Lost Boy and the Creature, if they are delving more into that with you and to cope you are tabling articles about them and focusing on other topics?

      3. Hello Clarece, I did mention a while back that a number of the blog articles arise from the ongoing discussions with the good doctors, I just do not write them in a dialogue, so I have been writing about the sessions, just in a different way. There is also as you rightly identify that the discussions are involving material which is relevant to those books you have mentioned and therefore it is being saved for those publications.

    1. Claudia, I don’t wish to see you leave. I think you might have misread something. There are good people on here that want to help. If you do go, please keep doing DBT skills as you are on the right track. You will be missed if you go.

      Now, are there Sociopathic people here? Sure, Claudia. HG is a Narcicistic sociopath and he’s doing a good thing by teaching us how to avoid narcicists. That’s the dialectic (remeber in DBT it says that good and bad can coexist)……Are there others? sure….they exist in our world everywhere. But, sweety, no one is targeting you here. Like someone said to me earlier, I think it was Snow White who said that we are all learning here to get stronger to see the red flags and avoid them.

      If you need to calm, then please take good care of you. I hope you return as you have a kind heart and if you don’t, stay on your journey of healing. It’s worth it!

      1. Thank you, Indy; I am okay. I mistook what was said. But, because you explained it better to me, I understand now. I sometimes read things differently than other 🙂 I am okay. Thank you. When I activate my Blog, let’s be friends. I deactivated it, last night. I have a lot of rhymes on there! 🙂 I like rhymes.

      2. You mention that you have a hard time knowing who you are, which is common with those that have been traumatized when young, often by others not respecting your personal boundaries. Finding out what you value and likes is a good start in finding your self identity. Have a good night!

    1. 1J1 He always comes back to us, one at a time. He needs us as we want to need him. Besides, we are part of the LDS fine wives club.

      1. I hear the piano’s high keys singing elegant poem lyrics to me, and find it deeply mesmerizing. It’s almost painful. (He will laugh at me, but I care not… becuz this is what rings sweetly into my ears, and hypnotizes me; I do not care; laugh)!

  5. HG,
    Alright already. I cannot sit idly by. I do not agree u are sub consciously seeking another you. You usually seek familiarity in the relationship dynamic, most times modeled after significant relationships in your life, molded from childhood.

    I think reason for mirroring is familiar to, but not the full desire of people. People do want variety in a SO as well as common interests. But I’ll go all girly like and say we are all like snowflakes. We are full of variety and maybe You are seeking another You.

    I agree with your last paragraph only. I would add that when you do love yourself that way, you seek a compliment to yourself not a mirrored replica. I enjoy the fact that my husband is different than me in many respects. So I didn’t fall in love with me in him. I fell in love with an interesting intelligent man whom I respect whether he agrees with me or not. Or whether he has the interests I do or not. He loves me as me, I love him as him and neither of us try to change that. You mirror as a lure. You become something you are not to attract or ensnare. Not because you want love, but because you want to ensure fuel. You think if you mirror, women will be all like, OMG, me too and omg I love that too. Not love at all but an illusion. People don’t want to fall in love with themselves or an illusion. They each have a criteria of what they want not a sub conscious pull to meet their exact replica.
    Please don’t punish me for my opinion HG. I am not criticizing you. I am simply stating my viewpoint. I know you don’t like it, but I am not trying to challenge you. I don’t like it when you abuse me. It hurts. So please don’t do it, just accept my opinion and disagree if you must. This is part of a relationship, you raise questions, share ideas and debate with one another not to win or prove you are right, but to enhance each other and make each other think. Respecting each other even when you don’t agree. Or modifying your belief because you never seen something from that view. How I wish we could sit for hours, have wine and discuss such things together. Like the old masters in Vienna.

  6. I don’t even think I could warn anyone about these two. I look like a crazy person if I did tell my tale. I wish I could but no one would believe the torture this man has done to me. The sheer pleasure of two women fighting over him… Pathetic..

    1. Yes, I tried to explain and it only backfired. It’s fine, though. I was glad to say, “bye bye” to those FB friends who went to his side. He’s such a charmer. (Sigh)…

  7. N2 charmed BF at first when my red flags were going off. She called him a man compared to the other guys I kinda sorta went out with. Neither she nor I knew what NPD was. She did catch on to the fact that something wasn’t right to his reactions when she and I spent time together. She was the only one I really hung out with and that even bothered him. He tried to say she was jealous and wanted an intimate relationship me…told me not to sleep with her when we took vacas together….wanted to accompany us on vacas. BF and I fell out several times due to my choices. My dad was the only other person who kept me grounded and N2 hated that as well. When my dad died, N2 thought he tasted blood and seriously moved in for the kill. BF wasn’t around. I listened to the flags. When I escaped, I was “lone wolfing it”.

    BF was entangled with her N since before she became my BF. I knew both in passing as we went to the same school. I thought they were an odd couple but it wasn’t my place to say. If it worked, it worked. When BF and I started hanging out, she mentioned that she wanted to get in touch with her N. I asked her why, bc he didn’t seem all that wonderful. She responded that he made her feel like no one else did. Putting it that way was sweet. That was before N2.

    I wish you had your site a few years back before BF and her N started their intimate relationship as adults. Your method has structure and firmness. It likely wouldn’t have changed things but who knows?

    BF and her N started a full on intimate relationship a few years ago. It gave me the heebie jeebies from the start. Things moved quickly under the pretense of knowing each other for years. She sold her house and moved in with him. His mom was paying most of his bills. When BF and I chatted on the phone he would get all sexual and groping with her…every time we talked. I didn’t press much bc projecting wouldn’t be right. I asked if his behavior rang any bells but to her it was “different’. I wasn’t going to argue. I gave him the nickname Man Child. Another friend of BF made a comment that she had a shovel and a well bc she saw it too. She was known as the crazy friend. I sat back and held my tongue but knew the relationship wouldn’t end well. She lost more than I did materially. I still had what you call a bolthole when I left. She didn’t. I was there to try and soften her landing when the chains broke.

    Thanks again for continuing to educate us

    1. PS. If you never actually post my first post…i just want to say that I love that picture. Breaking the chains that bind. I would love for you to break your chains. Love.

    2. You are welcome 1jaded and your post shows a whole host of narcissistic behaviours, traits and red flags. It would serve as a useful exam question – read this text and identify the narcissistic behaviours and red flags that are evident. You have 15 minutes.

  8. I have no desire to get involved with anything doing with my ex. He has been sending his minion at me again, questioning me. His attempts with the fake accounts have fallen on deaf ears. I have yet to acknowledge her. I only see him wanting to triangulate me with his “new” love. And saying anything to her, I do remember in the beginning there is nothing anyone could have said to make me believe he was such a person, so yes she will learn soon enough.

  9. it is also the same when you have been with a narc and try to convince people he is. I have lost some very good friends trying to convince people of one of my exes natures. I’ll probably keep my mouth shut from now on. It is too hard for people to wrap their heads around this.

  10. I am in that situation now her made it a point in sharing w me that he was going away for the weekend , not alone. I’m in pretty deep he is highly functional cerebral and somatic .. 11 years of this abuse , and worst yet there have always been drugs and alcohol evolved . I got clean and left his manipulating ass . I have thought of warming others but it would be futile.. And I don’t want to wAste my time.. G.

  11. I’ve tried to help, but seeing as how I’m still pretty new to all this narc stuff as well as dating in general, I didn’t get very far. I think when I tried I was too blunt and wound up making her feel worse about herself, more defensive of her own narc and rationalizing his behavior and her decisions.

    I agree with Alexis though. I’ve got no interest in trying to interfere with my N’s interactions with others, now that I know what’s going on. I did talk to one girl a little bit right at the beginning before I knew what was up. But I’m pretty sure I’ve been well and truly smeared by now, so trying more is counter productive. She was warned a bit, and she’ll figure out the rest eventually if she’s like me. She knows how to get ahold of me if she wants to talk.

  12. lol did I listen to my sister warning me, after her narcsperience w/ a D.A. of a major city?! Oh nooo..

    But, learned, & good to be F.R.E.E. 🙂

  13. It is hard to watch, so hard when you know the outcome. But as you rightly point out our efforts are futile once the seduction has begun.

    I would never, ever interfere in the goings on of my MN. He has way too much power within the group that it would not be worth anything. But fortunately for me, the ones I observe are at least PD themself in one way or another.

    As for others, outside of this circle, I would not have previously intervened if the lovebombing had begun.

    However, I have had two successes whereby it was clear an MN was earmarking some new prey. These were friends of mine. Not close particularly, but people I saw regularly.

    I told them, of all the women this person (in this case another woman) had seduced and how each time she becomes obsessed with them, cannot get enough of them, places them on a pedestal and once she secures their love (married or not) that she kicks them to the curb. How she would bad mouth others and compare you to them, placing you in such high regard. I told them of all the tactics, she wpuld use. How she would like the same things they did, friends and family would adore her too. All the little red flags. But I did not say she was a narcissist as I felt this would make it lose any credibility.

    It worked in both cases and she’s moved on to other victims. You can’t save everyone much as you’d like to. And prior to this post of yours HG I didn’t beleive you could save anyone where the seduction had begun. Only be there to help pick up the pieces and believe them.

    But now, I’ll give that some more thought. You have a good point that at least they may be able to escape the devaluation early on.

    Thanks again 🙂

    1. Loving yourself and being in love with yourself are two different things.
      When you seek the love of another person you are actually sub-consciously seeking your other half, namely another you, although you are not entirely aware that that is the case. We mirror what you are so this sub-conscious desire of yours is met, hence why it is so strong, so deep and so powerful.
      You loving yourself is about being satisfied with what you are as opposed to seeking that satisfaction from and in someone else.

      1. This is so crazy that you know this wise stuff, and yet you are a Sociopath! I cannot help but to be mystified and even more bewildered that what I am naturally. Your answer is …(can’t think of justifiable word)… I love this answer!

      2. In order to gain total and hegemonic control over you foe you must understand them. When you are very high functioning, learning about and understanding this material to further one’s aims is straight forward.

      3. Yes, yes, yes!!!!!! HG! What you just wrote, about the difference between being in love and loving self was not only deeply insightful but sooooo needed to be taught, shared and absorbed. It should be fed to babies as they enter this world and knowledge like the air we breathe. So many mental issues would cease to exist (not all, Of course) if we all were raised with this shown to us and we know it eithin. Please, hold this in you. That kind of wisdom and awareness is rare as precious gold.

      4. Do you think your theory falls in with the Laws of Attraction and like finding like? If you are deeply wounded, your subconscious will find and recognize someone else deeply wounded for the other half? It’s what’s relatable?

      5. I think there is force in that suggestion Clarece. I would of course deny its applicability to me, as that offends my notion of invulnerability and superiority.

      6. Oh my God. HG, I have to give you a compliment in the sense that you really are brilliantly twisted…it’s just such a shame that this energy goes for negative purposes, but I never give up hope! But when I read this,it like “clicked”!

        The ensnarement process is a bet against the competition – the Narcissist bets that he or she can convert the Empath into loving his or herself as the Narcissist does him or herself – therefore, the Narcissist becomes the Empath’s mirror during the golden period of which is agonizingly dreadful to the Narcissist, who waits patiently for devaluation to take back E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G plus some.

        If the ensnarement is successful, the Narcissist has proven his or her power and then seeks the vengeance in devaluation as the conquerer of the good. The good that the Narcissist first was attracted to in the Empath was susceptible to corruption such as the Persona was corrupted by the Shadow Self (Jung) – a hateful remembrance of what the Narcissist chooses to be (after all, it is the Narcissist’s world – Empaths merely live in it). It both validates and disgusts the Narcissist deep within which sparks the devaluation either subconsciously or consciously depending on their level of awareness…

        Out of curiosity – how long does the golden period last? I used to think it was a month or so but after reading some of your books and some of your post, is it longer than that on average??

      7. Thank you Sarah.
        Your second and third paragraphs have considerable force in them.
        The golden period has no set time period. It is generally longer than a month. I shall have to sit down and work out what the average time period is for all of the primary source relationships which I have had.

      8. Delayed question (what can I say, I’m a slow single track processor lol): what if you were seducing a woman that you mirrored and she mirrored you back. I know the odds are low, but in addition to all this she knew what you are and didn’t tell you and mirrored back. I must confess, I did a little mirroring purposefully with recent ex, kinda knew what he was (though doubted myself till I came here, my denial was strong)….

      9. I would spot what she was doing and if it persisted I would up my game to break through this. If she continued to do it I would reassure her that I am already attracted to her and she need not engage in such a pretence purely to try to attract me. Bear in mind I will have already undertaken background work on her prior to engaging the seduction so I will know if she is pretending to like things which I know she does not and so forth, plus I can use this acquired knowledge to break through this defence.

      10. HG, why do you always have to win, have the answer or always know? (Yes yes, because you were created that way)…..You know, being human is ok too.

    2. Claudia, this is for you… and you MUST love yourself and who you are first!

      “Two incomplete people cannot complete one another. Complete yourself first and then let someone else compliment you.” – Tony Gaskins

      What do you love about you? You are unique… make your unique qualities shine! 🙂

      1. DC, I deactivate my WordPress site, just because. But, when I get back onto my site, again, maybe we can be friends. You have good ideas, and wise thoughts. I am also going to post HG Tudor’s answer on my blog, [when I reactivate it] bcuz I got permission from him. Yes, I learning better how to love myself:-) I do not know of anything that is unique about me. I really do not know. I will try to think about it, though.

      2. Now this is beautiful. One of the beautiful side effects of this blog is each of us helping and supporting each other out. By the way Claudia, what DC is encouraging you to do is actually also a DBT skill!!!! I’m not sure how deep in DBT you are but this skill (creating) is called wise mind ACCEPTS. Go DC and Claudia!

      3. Excellent. He does a good job explaining dbt. I sometimes use exercises from his manual. Best, Indy

      4. Indy I had to look up this DBT, I didn’t know what it was BUT (as stupid as it might sound) I always try to get everyone to see their best qualities by digging around inside of themselves first. Many always think that something simple isn’t good enough but it is… you can build on that and make it your own beautiful creation! <3 I want happiness for everyone…

    1. Maddie, you do realize that the whole reason for this blog is to help us know their kind, inside and out. HG is here to be helpful but remember why this blog started, not truly for us but his own needs.
      Honey, if you are trying to learn about narcissism, falling in love with an unknown narc is not the way to go about it! You need to be strong girl… resist your urges towards narcs!
      I cannot say that I do NOT appreciate what HG is doing, because I do but you are NOT going to learn if you let your heart think for you.
      I have been with a nasty narc and fortunately I have come out unharmed BUT do not allow yourself to be entangled with one who carries the deepest and darkest desires of his black heart… you don’t know the depths of their abuse, they are not all the same and they are not all safe.
      “Knowing is half the battle”

      1. Dragoncreeper, my heart is beating too fast, now, by what you said. Is it okay to be on here…on this blog? I feel afraid, now. But, you are right! I feel as if I should leave forever from this blog; (Maddie might like it if I left, anyway, bcuz I like HG, too!), but no…I am definitely not thinking straight. I should go, I feel. I put an extra knife beside my nightstand last night, just in case; but, a knife will not help to protect me. I’m Cognitive Dissonancing, right now. I just have gotten a bit attached to my friends on here, SA, and everybody, and I don’t want to leave, but it’s not worth my life.

      2. Metaphorcontrastpoetry, I am by NO means telling you to leave the blog. This blog is perfect to learn from and HG is giving us the tools we need to equip ourselves… however do not fall in love with your teacher and be very aware of the narcs walking into your life!

      3. Mira.. don’t worry sweetheart. You have issues of your own to weed through just like the rest of us. I’d also say you may be battling PTSD if you’ve had it rough with a narc…if you are seeing a therapist talk to them about it! <3 Remember, it's okay…we've all had rough spots in our lives, sometimes the best way out is to have help from someone unbiased! 🙂

      4. I have a bit of BPD, too, along with C-PTSD, so I have a lot of intense emotions and difficulty in self-identity. But, I am much better with DBT Skills.

      5. Yayyyyyy!!!! DBT skills!!!!!! Had to cheer when I read this!!!!! Ok, I’ll step back in my corner.

      6. No, noooo, Indy. I wish you did not step back in to your corrner. I like to hear from you. Yay is true for DBT skill. Sorry, for writing errror. I I am deep in thought. so. I like dbt skills!

      7. I’m so glad you are learning DBT skills!!!! I swear by them and they can be a life saver, especially for those of us that have intense emotions, a history of trauma, and are looking to recover our own bodies and minds after we leave the abuse. To this day, it is one of the few modes of therapy that is empiracally supported to help those with BPD and suicidal thinking. ((((Hugs)))) and best of luck in your journey of surviving AND thriving! It takes time with DBT skills, sometimes they are hard and seem a pain, AND they are worth it in the long run. Good for you!!!!!!!

      8. Ah… C-PTSD, thats what your reaction yesterday looked like. Do not worry (now) Claudia, healing takes time. I have seen many who have come from abusive relationships, traumatic events and military with PTSD (C), your reaction was normal ALTHOUGH you shouldn’t have to go through that feeling and I am sorry that you do! Just stay here, remember that some of these posts are going to trigger you BUT remember that this is a place to learn. If it becomes too much stop reading and try to find your happy place! <3
        BTW I love your name, it is very beautiful!

      9. I mean…I’m so not in-love with him; I just mean, he seems “likable” for a Narcissist-Sociopath. But, I know that…well, you know…he’s…”not who he seems to be”; but I like his “fake self” okay, I guess. If he wasn’t a Narc/Sociopath, he’d be a doll! (Not Chucky, but I mean a sweetheart doll).

      10. Ha ha, Mira, you aren’t the only one! Narcs definitely have a fabulous fake self… It’s addicting! I guess because I don’t have a face (or legs) to put with HGs beautiful writing I can’t really “crush” on him. AND yes, I am a little superficial, sorry if the looks (and legs) aren’t there we can only be friends!

      11. Centre half and captain of course. Go forward for corners and score, kick lumps out of attackers and twist their nipples when defending corners.
        What number did you wear?

      12. lol nipple twisting? Well you are sneaky… shooting that ball in the top slim corner…just enough so the goalie can’t jump high enough or fast enough. Impressive.
        I played coed in a several semesters of college and also for fun on the weekends. No number jersey BUT lots of sweat, mud and a little blood…no tears just cussing and yelling lol.

      13. I think I am going to use him in my next fantasy. He is tall with dark hair and very yellow green eyes. Pale skin that is silky smooth. Muscular and strong thighs and arms. Pointed eye teeth so he can punter my neck. I will call him Lestat de Lioncourt

      14. I read ‘Interview with Vampire’, by Rice, when I was about 14 or 15. I do not like vampires but the book was written very eloquently.

      15. D C, is something wrong with us?? If my friends and associates even knew I was talking in accordance with a Sociopath, they’d clobber me faster than any a Sociopath could (with all due respect, Dear Sir)… I don’t know what I’m quite up to… Learning, yes. But.. We are we takin in by this charm? He pays attention to us…

      16. To be fair HG would pay attention to us anyways because he is teaching us… he is being respectful in this manner. I am sure even he cringes to reply to us at times but he does it anyhow. No need to worry…

      17. But, it’s “kind” for someone to give us his attention and not hurt us, too (yet)… I get attached to people very quickly and tightly do I cling…BPD. Once I have friend, or anyone who doesn’t hurt me, I attach and despair when they leave. Thus, it is my lot in life to always be in pain; everybody leaves in one way, or another. Everybody. I die over and over and over, again. Sociopath need not hurt me, I am already there. I am already there, Narcissist, you see? And yes, you can rightfully be the reason for my pain. Everybody leaves, be it by betrayal, death, substances, or what-have-you…

      18. Lol I’ll write it only once: had a narcissistic mum few relationships and a friend…. please do not assume I do not know what abuse is…;) You have no clue of who I am.

      19. Ps. Most of the readers here don’t know who they truly are … HG helped to understand who I am..and I will be grateful for that till I die. it’s my mind speaking not my heart yet lol He knows me more than I know myself. And my comments are usually addressed to Him as this is his blog.

      20. DC79,
        Are we on the Ass Kissing Narc blog or the how to outsmart the narcissist blog? It seems some think it is the former. They are not smart. Lets just watch it unfold as we laugh our asses off. It is quite annoying and I would rip and kill at will, as I am sociopathic and have no remorse, but the moderator doesn’t like it so out of respect for him I do not. He’s holding me back by the chain. If he let’s go, it’s on. Don’t release the hound HG, I’m counting on you to control me. Hope you are strong enough for the both of us.

      21. No one is going to out smart HG. One would be foolish to think so.

        Are you a sociopath too? If so are you on here to find victims? I am not sure if I understand your post. Help me out ABB. >

      22. ABB, exactly. I do worry about mental health of some, and you can only lead a horse to water, their tongues/ lips go where’s ever they wish…. Pass the popcorn. 🍺

      23. I’m confused, now. It’s fine; I shall leave and the Sociopaths can run this Blog. Eventually the devil turns on the Antichrist, I believe, even though one might presume they are in some sort of “evil agreement” together. No, they will turn on each other, eventually.

      24. My dear Anna Belle, I cannot join in with you on this as I want to covet those who are not used to your kind or are learning since I am well versed with your kind. (mind you I find y’all irresistible) I am not with you but I am not against you… you are my counterpart no matter the lack of emotion. Also, I believe there is no such thing as outsmarting a narc completely… Y’all are cunning and perceptive. I do not care what ANYONE says about a narc lover… they may not care but they notice EVERYTHING!

        *I won’t lie though, I do find some entertainment on here… and thank goodness I do not come on here drunk! :0

      25. I am not trying to outsmart, anyone. But, thank you for thinking that I might be trying to do so, if indeed you are speaking to me. But, no…it is not my way to “play with fire”. I already have too many fires to put out, right now. What do you want, anyway? Shall we just leave Tudor’s Blog altogether? Is this what you wish for? And then, who will hold back HG from You if we leave? Is this his blog, or yours? Or, are you his “partner in crime”?

      26. Hi Claudia, I may be wrong but I do not think ABB was directing this towards you. I interpreted what she said to mean that it can be frustrating when we try to help people that we think are showing signs of unhealthy attachment and get pushback from those that we try to help. In all due respect I do believe that each person on here should be able to function in their own way that they see fit as long as HG is fine with it. I don’t think Anyone wants you or anyone to leave. It’s just people trying to be helpful and people misunderstanding. I hope that helps hugs….. Indy

      27. Oh, thank you Indy. I feel better, now. I prefer not to leave, as you are all so kind to me. And, I’m just not interested in being tortured or killed. I still have a lot of things I’m sorta trying to accomplish before I go to Heaven, The Lord Willing. (And, this group is nicer to me than groups where there are normal people on there. I mean not “normal”, but “non-abused” people; regular people can be really mean and judgmental in a very bad way; and they betray so! They act like they’re your friend, and then do a 360 turn on you and betray and wound)…

      28. Claudia my dear,
        I am not speaking to you. I am indirectly speaking in generalities. I don’t wish anyone to leave. You should stay in fact. But I think the reason behind staying is to be considered. I’m not his partner in crime. I being sociopathic and having the tendencies of that label sometimes pull that out of the hat and direct it towards others but not to hurt. It just is what it is. HG is the man. I don’t steal his thunder. I love what he is doing and have the utmost respect for him. I sometimes am misunderstood. Because I’ve gotten over the narc problems. So say that I’m healed. But like to look at the reminders.

      29. Thank you, Anna 🙂 I misunderstood. I might activate my blog, again, sometime. I shall stay on here. Everybody is pretty kind. I am trying to ask myself, though, why I am on here [?]; I feel a connection with all of you. I cannot help it. I get attached. I do not like to see people go. It’s difficult for me. Hugsssss.

      30. But DC79 I have a bit of a crush on a few on here. You can also be one of my CRUSH CLUB MEMBERS. Possibly one of HG’s 10 wives. We are converting to LDS Fundamentalists in honor of the MatriNarc. Yep 1Jaded1 is already a member, I think.
        How are you with windows? Sewing? Canning? Keeping a Narc happy?

        Another Manic Monday.

      31. Lol SA, I’m down but I’m a little greedy and will need attention every night…or morning, at least before I go to work! I can sew, cook, clean, decorate… AND I know exactly what a narc wants… I guess I’m a jack of all trades…master of narcs though! Count me in your harem! 🙂

      1. Do any of You think I’ll be happy if any of You left the blog of His? No. As He needs his readers haters and adorers. I accept that and understand. I’m here for Him. If He will not want me here He’ll say so and I shall be gone. It’s funny that I don’t usually reply or read many comments but somehow I’ve been drawn to these ones once I’ve opened my browser. Enjoy Your evening dear G 💞

      2. Maddie it does look as if you are smitten. But it is alright as we all are, some just show it a bit more (you) >

      3. Yes I agree. but at the same time they write things I am already aware of 🙂 and assuming too much about me 🙂 not knowing me at all. It’s really funny 🙂

  14. Most need to follow their own path, we can only say be careful. I have been in situations where you know the person is cheating but the victim will not listen. I have learned to say nothing direct but only to leave crumbs to follow the path to the truth. It is not my job to save anyone. But be there when they fall to perhaps soften the blow.
    Fuck, I hate drama!

  15. I think back to when it all began and you would have needed some hard evidence to show me. And I would have needed it in the earliest stages. My immediate family pointed out a few things in the beginning but me being soo non judge mental, gullible and wanting to make a difference in someone’s life I dismissed every red flag and warning.
    The time I think is one of the most important points. She occupied every minute of every day. It wasn’t until my husband was able to cut off the contact for 48 hours that I was able to even think of listening to anyone. And that was two and a half year later. I has been severely brainwashed.

    1. Same here. I strongly identify with those traits too. As SA said, most of us had to forge our own paths. When someone points out that the one you have fallen hard for is suspicious, we resist. It’s natural. I had dated off and on for 10 years after a long term relationship with a wonderful person who also was frequently relapsing into addiction (not a narcicist, though I have been with 3 that were). After those long ten years of being selective and noncommittal, I fell….hard…for my most recent ex that is likely an upper midrange. I had a friend tell me red flags, my adult son (they didn’t say narcicist but knew a few red flags for trouble)…I listened but didn’t take it in, I waited so long to find one to let in….I didn’t want it to be true. I had to learn the hard way, use my resources and come here to finally determine what I was dealing with and leave. No shame in being a soft hearted romantic with some gulliblility and less judge mental views of others….I’m one to believe in the best in people, to a fault. I’m not sure how to change this in me other than to know I’m like this and be more educated on the red flags and hold good boundaries. I’m on that journey now. Work on my life and get myself healthy. I’m feeling good these days.

      1. Hi Indy,
        We seem to have a lot in common. It seems as is both our children knew something that we didn’t or something that we refused to admit. I had always wanted my daughter to have my traits but now I am grateful that she has shown to be the complete opposite in some areas. She is still loving, kind, and smart but does not possess any of the Generic or Special traits that you and I seem to have that makes us targets. I don’t think she will ever let anybody manipulate her. They won’t even get close. She isn’t wired like that…. I don’t think we can change wanting to see the best in others because it’s in our soul. We are good, caring, and loyal human beings. That’s the way we are wired. But I agree we are going to be so much better at seeing the red flags and holding strong boundaries from now on. That was my downfall. We have both already become so much stronger. Glad to hear you are feeling good! Xxx🍎

      2. Maybe therapy to convince you of your self-worth. You keep repeating the same situation. I can recommend a book, on relationships. I have had three people (men) come back to me and say how the book helped them. Besides HG’s books, it was the other one that helped me in my journey back to me, as I helped me realize my issues. Yes we all have them, and it always goes back to the Mother, HG will confirm this.

        Are You The One For Me? Knowing Who’s Right and Avoiding Who is Wrong. Barbara DeAngelis. Ph.D.
        Please check it out. But keep reading HG’s info and books as he will show you how to avoid crazy MF’ers.

        You know I got nothing but love for ya. Well, not really but it sounded ghetto, and I just felt like it. 🙂
        Sometimes I just crack myself up.

        I do like hugs

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