The Post Discard Battle – Pt 2




The first battle that takes places post discard is the Emotional Battle. That is a battle that you are always destined to lose. You will always fight at least one Emotional Battle because you do not know any other way. In all likelihood, you will face several of these post discard battles because you will keep being hoovered back into our grasp until such time as you learn to recognise what you are dealing with and understand what you must do. Eventually and this may take several Emotional Battles before you realise this and are capable of achieving the appropriate response, you either evade the Emotional Battle by escaping as opposed to being discarded, or you prepare yourself for the eventual discard in a manner which means you no longer have to ensure the Emotional Battle. Instead, you move on to the next post discard battle, that of Head versus Heart (“the HvH Battle”).

The HvH Battle (also known as the Logic v Emotion Battle) is a battleground where you stand some chance of victory. This battleground is one where you have gained understanding. It might be through your repeated exposure to our kind so that eventually something has “clicked” into place or more often than not it is as a consequence of an external agent who has explained matters to you. It might by a therapist, a friend, the content of a book, something you saw on YouTube or even something that I have written. Whatever has caused this understanding to increase, it is this which provides you with the fighting chance to win this HvH Battle.

You have been discarded and run the gamut of emotional fall-out thereafter. You may understand what we are. You may understand some of the things that we have done. You may be familiar with the fact that we will try to hoover you back into our grip. You may even be starting to comprehend that what has happened was all predicated on an illusion. The degree of understanding will vary but what is important for you is that you are allowing logical thought to be heard above the raw heat of your emotions. You once again will not just be battling against us but also yourself. We will be looking to hoover you in order to draw you back into our grip or perhaps we will be unleashing a malign hoover since we are unable to draw you back into our false reality and therefore we opt to keep extracting negative fuel by way of punishment for your treachery. You have us as an opponent, but you will also be fighting yourself as your emerging logic grapples with the still churning emotion. You have learned many things and you know you should apply what you have learned but still there is the emotional pull that you experience. You are not removed or detached from your emotions, they have not dimmed either, they are still there, raging away. The hurt, the love, the longing, the passion, the fear and the upset. An ocean of emotion which you once tried to cross but that was the Emotional Battle and you had barely taken four strokes as you began to swim before you were engulfed by the emotion and sank to the bottom of this sea, drowned by your own emotion. Now you have built a vessel. It is made from cool, hard logic. Critical thinking, once a stranger to you during your savage devaluation, has re-appeared. You can analyse and assess. It is unlikely you are able to do so at the level you once enjoyed before we came along but it is there. Whether this vessel is a tiny raft, a dinghy, a boat or a hulking great liner depends very much on the extent of your understanding. The choppy emotional seas will smash against your vessel of logic. A wave of sorrow will buffet you, a tsunami of longing will threaten to swamp you once again. Wave after wave of emotion will try and capsize your vessel as you try to navigate this emotional ocean. Chances are your life raft will be smashed to match wood and you will be tipped into the sea to drown once again as emotion subsumes you and you find yourself back in our hold. Your clipper may be holed beneath the waterline and you start to take on board more and more emotion as steadily you sink beneath the emotional waves once again. It is during this HvH Battle as you try to cross the emotional ocean, because what you must do is reach the dry land beyond and in effect put an ocean but you and us, you will be subjected to the push and pull of your emotions trying to guide you, to control your decision-making, your head will tell you one thing as your heart screams something else at you. This is probably the harder battle for you to fight. In the Emotional Battle, you do not stand a chance and your defeat is swift and total. During the HvH Battle you will make gains, suffer losses, seem to making a breakthrough and then out of nowhere a tidal wave will flip you from your boat and into the churning ocean and you drown once again. All the while we will be whipping up the waves, firing our torpedoes at you as we endeavour to cause you to sink into this emotional ocean yet again and you fail to cross it and win this battle. How might this HvH Battle manifest in the real world?

  1. You will know you ought not to contact us but you need to send a message to see if we respond.
  2. You will keep checking our social media profiles to ascertain if you are mentioned, if we are with somebody else and/or to find out what we are doing.
  3. You will ask about us to our coterie and lieutenants, often unwittingly doing so, so this is fed back to us.
  4. You will go on dates but find you are always comparing this new person to us and they are always found to be wanting.
  5. You know what the outcome will be but you just want one more night with us.
  6. You realise that we are unlikely to change but if you do not try you will never know, so it is worth one more attempt to talk isn’t it?
  7. You understand much of what we did and said was a lie, but surely it could not all have been an illusion? There must have been times where we really did love you and you need to ask us about this.
  8. You know we are bad for you, but you cannot help what you feel. Surely it would be better to stop this pain from being there all the time and just have it occasionally?
  9. You know you should not reply to our messages but it feels so good to have a conversation with us again. It has been too long.
  10. You know we are using you, but it feels so damn good.
  11. One kiss cannot hurt can it?
  12. You know better now, so going back will be different because you know what to expect. Armed with this new knowledge you can enter the lion’s den again but be better prepared.
  13. You know we are bad for you but you cannot bear the thought of someone else being with us and perhaps being the one to work.
  14. What if this time the apology is sincere and the desire to change is real? If you walked away from that, you would only be denying yourself happiness wouldn’t you?
  15. You understand engaging with us is dangerous but there are things you really need to tell us.

These and others besides are all examples of the inherent tension that arises in this tug-of-war between your cool intellect and your burning emotions.

Can you win this battle that rages post discard? Unlike the first battle, the Emotional Battle which you can never win, you can be victorious. You may have to fight this HvH Battle many times before securing the win. In the beginning you may be clinging to little more than a log as you desperately try to sail the emotional ocean and you are swept from it. However, by reading and understanding, by disciplining yourself to apply logic, to prevent your emotions from engulfing you, by reading more and increasing your knowledge you will begin to increase your logic vessel. From log to raft to dinghy. Still you may be swamped and drowned again. But then it becomes a small boat, a yacht, a clipper, a steamer, a passenger liner, a frigate, a destroyer and a super tanker. Each time you rebuild, better, bigger and stronger as you learn more, making the vessel more seaworthy. You begin to chart routes so you avoid the most tumultuous emotional areas, finally beginning to steer through calmer waters until there it is, on the horizon, the sight of land and the final battle that occurs with our kind post discard.

The HvH Battle is not an easy battle. You will fight it several times, but each time you should be better prepared to cross the emotional ocean and improve your prospects of success. Sometimes you are taken unawares by some of our provocative tactics and dumped unceremoniously into the water once again, but it is a battle you can win through the dedicated application of knowledge and understanding.

61 thoughts on “The Post Discard Battle – Pt 2

  1. Stacey says:

    So, I have managed no contact for 6 weeks. Last contact he made to me was to ask how o was doing? Most,y yo test where I was I told him I left because he was a crack head.. ( which he is..) he completely denied everything and the real reason I left. Then proceeds to tell me he has a girlfriend and he is moving on.. Ok that’s fine. I have done my crying and he is now smearing my name and saying I am a drip addict ( never used drugs) and I am nothing compared to new fuel, girl, victim.. So, anyway why does he try to continue to hurt me and yet hides her from me and tries to keep his love a big secret new phone number many things that seem to be the END? Is it possible it’s over? We were married for 15 years… I tried to leave many times and fell back to his charm and my need for him… I am just confused because as you say I know what he is and yet I still hieprting and wonder if and hoovering Will return. He doesn’t know what he is but he does know he is good,okingon and charming android hi sunshine ew girl has no knowledge of his drug use… He said she isnTHE ONE,

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hello Stacey, your confusion is understandable and is engineered as part of keeping you in the same place and not moving forward. There are several issues arising out of your post which I can address for you but the detail required is best suited to a private consultation.

  2. Snow White says:

    Hi Not So Sad!!!!

    I agree totally that NO ONE can understand what we go through unless they have experienced it. They would need to walk in our shoes.
    I think my therapist looks forward to me coming in and updating her on what I have learned new each week from this blog. I do believe she learns from me. She might be here. Lol!!!!

    I have learned from everyone here that you need to take whatever amount of time you need to heal and move on. It’s my decision and not anyone else’s. Some days are good and others are not, but that’s ok.

    My husband does not read the blog. He asks about it but he doesn’t grasp everything. My therapist tried to explain it to him that it was similar to getting out of a cult and now I’m trying to protect myself. She told him the same trusting, generous, pushover person I used to be might never come back. I am grieving the loss of a best friend, finance, and that illusion that’s so hard for me to understand. It’s so much. To him I just had an affair and he is hurting in his own way. He knows she took advantage of me but only wants to hear so much of my narcissism facts. Lol…We do share the same kindles so he might take a peek at some of the books. There are ones I don’t want him to read.
    I learn everyday here.
    I enjoy our conversations and happy you will be around.
    Hope you enjoy your Thanksgiving!

  3. The Punisher says:

    Haven’t gone back for 10 years! I recently had an opportunity to prove to myself that I have what it takes to protect myself and not be sucked in. I came here like HG wtf did I just do? Is he for real gonna come back now?! Lol. Glad to be part of the never going back club!!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      His reappearance is governed by the Hoover Trigger being activated and the Hoover Execution Criteria being met.

  4. Not So Sad says:

    It’s great to know TP And you will x

    Grab them with both hands & run ..I promise you. you won’t ever look back x

    1. The Punisher says:

      Thank you Not So Sad! I left someone 10 years ago and I never did look back. I recently had a chance to prove to myself that it’s gonna stay that way. I didn’t really understand what I did until I read Revenge. I easily continue to repel this one thanks to HG. 😼

  5. The Punisher says:

    Nice to meet you as well 😊 I have indeed. The words I couldn’t find are all here and the blanks are filled in too. And I’m still learning. Thanks, HG.

  6. Not So Sad says:

    Indy ! Thank you so much 🙂

    I’ll happily take the key & the badge & keep it safe for the next arrival on the shore ..

    Kick off your shoes, feel the sand under your feet & the warm sunshine on your face .. It’s truly beautiful here.. I’m so happy for you .

    Not So Sad xx

    1. The Punisher says:

      Hi! We haven’t spoken, but I’m happy to see you’re Not So Sad 😊

      1. Not So Sad says:

        Hello TP

        Nice to meet you & thank you . 🙂

        I hope you find the answers you’re looking for as I have .. x

    2. Indy says:

      Awww Not So Sad, Yes, for the others that come to shore….we shall greet them!! I am so happy for you too!!

      Yes, the sand is grounding and so soothing.

      “I believe in the sand beneath my toes
      The beach gives a feeling, an earthy feeling
      I believe in the faith that grows” Third Eye Blind, Semi-Charmed

      1. Not So Sad says:

        Thank you Indy !
        I can happily say that I feel nothing for my ex .

        Freedom feels fantastic doesn’t it !!! x


  7. NoNarcs says:

    Thank you for this very hopeful post. While inside the house of mirrors with the Narc it’s easy to lose hope for a better life free of the Narc. As you have said many times, Knowledge is the key, and your writings provide an excellent primary source of the type of knowledge that is needed.

  8. Not So Sad says:

    And you HG are too quick with your replies .
    Massive fail !

    1. HG Tudor says:

      To the step with her!

      1. I love his quick replies.

      2. Indy says:

        Congratulations Not So Sad!!!! There is a saying in12 step groups that “in order to keep it, you must give it away”….hands over badge 🗝☮️…the key to peace. Let’s both do a dance on the shore for the others to come!!!!

    2. I love his quick replies.

  9. Not So Sad says:

    I’ve no idea what you’re talking about HG . Get a grip !

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Now now NSS, that naughty step has plenty of room on it still!

  10. Not So Sad says:

    Oh you’d like that wouldn’t you. Nice try with the triangulation !
    Guess what . I’m not playing ..
    In fact you might get a big dose of silent treatment for that 🙂

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Ha ha, I do like to see you putting what you have learned into effect.

  11. So Sad says:

    I made it to dry land !
    If I can anyone can …
    Don’t ever give up trying …

    It’s fabulous here. Cant wait to see you all .

    So Sad .x

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Bravo Not So Sad.

      1. So Sad says:

        Well Mr Tudor.

        The truth is, I couldn’t have done it without your help . Ever.

        You’ve turned my life around, and for that I’ll be eternally grateful .

        For anyone struggling I would say keep reading the blog & the books, & keep asking questions.

        Once you have the answers, though it might not be plain sailing it does make it easier .

        Thank you so much HG .

        Not So Sad .. Xx.

        P.S. Do I get a badge or something now seeing as I’m not a ” narc fee wannabe ” anymore 🙂

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Thank you Not So Sad, I appreciate that testimonial. Pay attention everybody! You may have a badge indeed, I think Indy has one, so you might see if she wants to relinquish it!

          1. No need to compete for…” there will only ever be one Madame Picasso” 😉

  12. Seduced says:

    I loved this book. It showed me who I really was. I couldn’t believe while reading that a person who isn’t me can describe my behaviour feelings and thoughts So precisely! You are true genius dear.G. ❤

  13. I asked “my god” why he was taking me through such turbulent waters.
    his reply came back…because your enemies can’t swim 😉
    This has been an unmatched in value series of articles for me since it’s original posting HG.
    I am thinking back now to where I was in my recovery at that time.
    I remember feeling like the weight of your words in combination with my new found understanding because of them had succeeded in pulling me under again.
    I was so tired from fighting against that unrelenting current.
    You threw me a life preserve that day…a “Titanic” one.

    Jesus wept !!
    I could cry for us all right now, but I gotta get back to work cause there’s still a leak in this boat I can’t find…it’s getting so that pretty soon I can add ships caulker to my resume like my ole Grand pappy.

    From the bottom of my “Vessel” I salute you.

  14. Spot on. The growing logic vessel and yet the capsizing at the same time. And…the fact that it wasn’t what it used to be…but hope is present. Bc the vessel can grow.

  15. Kelly says:

    Its stunning to me, really. How you can know so very well how the other side feels. How is it possible? Do you only know by what we explain to you? You don’t have the empathy, so how is it you can describe so perfectly what its like for us?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I have spent years interacting with your kind, observing you, studying you, watching and listening, absorbing what my victims tell me and some have done so in considerable details. I soak all of this up because I want to understand so I become more effective.

      1. Yes….that’s it… you want to understand so you can become more effective.
        #1 need for you… fuel.
        Wow. Hmm.
        So this blog is about that. I
        I can see.
        Fulfills much for you.
        And perfecting the effectiveness of fuel obtaining.
        Learning from us. For U.
        We learn from you how to survive you and you learn from us how to better attack us. . So to speak.
        Job security so to speak. 😉

      2. Yes….that’s it… HG….you want to understand so you can become more effective.
        #1 need for you… fuel.
        Wow. Hmm.
        So this blog is about that. I
        I can see.
        Fulfills much for you.
        And perfecting the effectiveness of fuel obtaining.
        Learning from us. For U.
        We learn from you how to survive you and you learn from us how to better attack us. . So to speak.
        Job security so to speak. 😉

  16. I am asking..what is it like for the narc when a source of fuel makes an escape, does not contact the narc in any way, and is living whole again. What does that feel like for the narc?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      In terms of what it feels like when an appliance first makes that escape, read the set of articles (there are three) entitled “How No Contact Feels.”
      There will follow an Initial Grand Hoover.
      If that fails we are infuriated by your treachery and running low on fuel we may well enter a Crisis Mode whereby we need to find fuel asap and also find a new primary source asap. That becomes the priority and you will be ignored whilst we attend to our fuel needs with other appliances.

      Therefater, if you do not contact us in any way then you reduce the risk (but you do not extinguish it) of being hoovered.

      1. Thank you for the response and the articles to read. I am curious. My narc(said with no love) is seriously sick. 3 shunts in heart, but explosion and loss of most of his large intestine, throat opening surgery 10 times, alcoholic, sexual abuse to his daughter and adopted son and the list goes on. He is 55 and looks 70. How does he obtain fuel?
        Upon reading the 3 parts I see him as the higher level narcissist. Yet I am pretty sure he sits most nights drinking himself into a coma. Do you really think he is going to try and attain me back? That seems like the most retarded thing ever.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          He will do so through repeated pity plays based on his failing physical health. He will utilise technology to assist him in that regard by sweeping cyberspace to draw fuel from various sources as well when he is struggling to gain it in a proximate sense. He will complain to anybody who will listen about his condition, draw fuel from professional healthcare providers, no doubt blame you for his position and may well hoover you in a malign way because of this. Alternatively,he will try to draw you back in for your positive fuel and the residual benefit you would provide, if he succeeded, of caring for him.

          1. Thank you again. Perhaps my doubt does not allow me to believe he will bother with me. Whatever the case I will not be part of it. I saw a brief clip from Prince ea. He stated how good for our country it is that Trump is president. Because within doing so we as a society have come to realize how sick as a society we have become. What we have done to others and what we have participated in and what we have done to ourselves. Perhaps this will be a turning point. And maybe just maybe there will be me who will wake up and…why do I allow myself to be treated this way. And there it ends.
            And as a side note…for all those who say they don’t want the narc to suffer are lying. They want the narc to suffer. One should want that for someone e who has caused such agony to pay the cost. Yet there is one small glitch. They believe the narc and what he says about them. And thus they believe they deserve the same treatment. In irony most if not all of the victims are incredible human beings. That’s why you narcs like us. We make you look so good. Now if we could just get people to stop following narcs around like sheep to slaughter and being tantalized by perversion…we might get somewhere.
            And it makes me smile knowing he is going to get his. And I won’t be anywhere near him. What do they call that…hmmmm..karma.

  17. Snow White says:

    I could read this over and over.
    I still get dumped in the water but my boat gets bigger each time.
    I am winning.

    1. So Sad says:

      🙂 🙂 🙂 Well done SW ! xxxxxxXX

      1. Snow White says:

        Thank you very much So Sad!!!!!
        And congratulations on getting to land. I bet the view is beautiful. I love hearing that people have made it. Can’t wait to join you.

        1. Not So Sad says:

          Sorry for the late reply SW .

          And thank you .

          I read how well your doing & at the same time I feel how painful it is for you .
          I promise you with time & knowledge you’ll be where I am now .

          I’m waiting for you . .. xx

          1. Snow White says:

            I love the name change Not So Sad!!!!
            I just wanted to tell you that I remember seeing your name in the very first book that I read of HG’s. It was Ask the Narcissist. I was on a plane because my therapist told me that I needed to “fill the pie” with something else besides my ex(she previously took up the whole pie). I decided I should travel. I couldn’t believe what I was reading in the book. I had completely stepped into another world that I was unaware of. This book led me to the blog where I also saw your name.
            The knowledge here and support has been exactly what I needed just like you. I am glad we both found what we were looking for.
            Sending hugs to you❤️🍎❤️

          2. Not So Sad says:

            Thank you Snow White 🙂

            I thought it was time to change my name because I’m not the same person who joined blog earlier this year .
            * Smiles*

            I don’t know about you but my experience with therapists isn’t that great.

            Either A- They don’t really understand the dynamics of exactly what we went through & how the aftermath effects us .
            B-They tend to want us to move forward as yours did with suggesting you travel.. somewhere exotic I hope ?

            I spent the best part of a year trawling through site after site . Tried to listen to Sam Vadkins monotonous You Tube videos( Yawn) signed up for several forums etc etc but I just wasn’t getting the information I was looking for ..

            Then BINGO ! I found HGs blog & finally I was able to get the answers & the support ..

            I can see changes in your posts SW as you find the answers too .. I’m nearly two years NC now . Would I be the same if I hadn’t found this site ? Possibly ..I don’t really know but I know that I would still be in emotional limbo & still searching ..

            Snow one day you’ll be where I am now . Thank you for hugs 🙂 I know they’re virtual but they mean a lot .. (( Hugs)) back x

          3. Snow White says:

            It has been a journey NOT SO SAD and no you are not the same. It is nice to see where people start on this blog and after taking HG’s advice where they go with it and how they change.

            My experience hasn’t been great but my therapist is trying to help. Just like you, mine doesn’t seem to grasp the whole dynamic either. She seems to understand the scientific end of narcissism but lacks in understanding how the relationship works as a whole. Some days I do feel that she tries to get me to move along further but I think that’s because I separately see her with my husband and he wants me to get over it even though he is trying to understand.
            I did get to visit the Caribbean though. That was fantastic. I wanted to stay.
            Two years is an accomplishment. You should be proud. I didn’t think I would make it past the first month but now it’s been 6 months.
            I couldn’t find much either online. Sam wants relatable for me and I found him on the boring side. Lol… I guess I was lucky that I found one of HGs’ books in the first couple of months. Everything that I was looking for was in his books and here on this blog.
            I wish you continued success and happiness and hope you stick around. ❤️🍎❤️ I appreciate all your kind words and I love hugs!!!!!

          4. Not So Sad says:

            Sorry for the delay replying Snow White & thanks again for you very kind words 🙂

            I will always maintain that therapists can read as many text books as they like, study to the highest level, and get a zillion letters after their name but no one can truly understand what a relationships like with a N unless they’ve experienced it .
            I met one recently who didn’t even understand what triangulation means.. something so commonly used by narcs, all she could say was she’d ” heard” of it .. I hear it time & time again . I’m convinced now that I actually no more than they do from reading the blog & the books .. Moving us forward for me anyway isn’t the answer, it’s like trying to sew up a wound with out checking out to see whats caused it . This is were the blog comes into it’s own because HG is telling it from a narcs perspective .

            The Caribbean WOW lucky you 🙂

            The same to you Snow . I wish I could say that recovery’s easy but it’s not as you know . It’s slow & excruciatingly painful emotionally . There were days where I just wanted to end it all it’s like wriggling out of a very tight shoe but it happens .
            I’m still a long way from getting back the old NNS I’m not sure she’ll ever come back , she certainly won’t be the same person but I can see light at the end of the tunnel ::) And you will one day . Six months is pretty amazing .!!
            I’m glad your husbands supporting you, does he read the blog ?

            P.s I’m not going anywhere fast. I feel there’s still a lot I have to learn 🙂 And anyway HGs always up for a laugh & a joke I like that side of him 🙂

            (( Hugs))

            Not So Sad xx

  18. I can do it. Thank you again. Brilliant. I will be victorious.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are welcome.

  19. Grace says:

    Hi HG interesting I am writing my dairy using the analogy of boat and ocean only your depiction is much more illusive and vivid:))

    Life crisis by running into a narcissist and falling in love with him provides a profound opportunity to knowing thou self – as a result of the deep yearning for connection and bond, I lost The self ( boundary, self respect and dignity)… painful yet great experience for learning how to swim and build safe vessel in the vast unknown ocean….it is a inner battle I have to go through!

  20. Sail Away says:

    I have thought through, agonized about, or cried over every single point times 1000.

    How can you, as an N, even know this? How is it possible you understand this? When even I have yet to articulate it and I’m beginning to understand this disorder fairly well.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I am intelligent, aware and articulate. I have spent years doing this. I have spent years observing, studying, honing and practising. I have spent years interacting with victims, listening to them, understanding how they tick and I have latterly had the intervention and observations of the good doctors.

      1. Love says:

        I appreciate all the work you’ve done on the matter. You speak of years of observing/analyzing victims yet I’m curious about how you learned of the other types of narcissists. How did they let you in? As you state, your kind is like sharks, not exactly the most friendly, open, and honest personalities.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          There are several in the family. I know others through business.

      2. Love says:

        Thank you. I find the interactions of narcs so fascinating. There is never a relaxed moment. Every statement/move counts.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Absolutely Love.

          1. HG…on that note….arent u exhausted living that way?
            I remember thinking that of my ex….. that his energy output was so inefficient…..

          2. HG Tudor says:

            No I ma not FL11.

      3. Sail Away says:

        The N I was with had considerable education & spoke multiple languages (confirmed facts). Yet you’ve been much more helpful and articulate (indeed) than he ever was. Or maybe that’s just because I’m not your primary source of fuel. Either way, I appreciate these observations immensely, even so I can use it to identify how I actually feel inside. It’s such a rollercoaster of emotions it’s sometimes hard to describe.

        Thank you, HG

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You are welcome SA.

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