How No Contact Feels – Part Three



So to the Greater. What does the imposition of No Contact feel like to him and how does he respond to the threat of such an imposition? Let us begin with you telling the Greater that the Formal Relationship has ended and you convey this message in person. To set the scene, imagine a timid and apprehensive person stepping into the lair of the dragon. The black-scaled dragon, sulphuric fumes rising from him as he watches the advancing person, his glittering dark eyes are keen slits of observation. He misses nothing. This dragon is vast, an embodiment of power and destruction, long claws resting on the symbols of his magnificence, the low light gleaming on those impenetrable scales, the fangs protruding from the cavernous mouth. This dragon is in its domain and knows it rules all that it surveys as this nervous person approaches, message held in trembling hand. This dragon already knows what is written on that message, he is particularly perceptive and recognises from the demeanour and body language of the approaching person that this is not someone bearing good news, but rather the opposite. Yet, such is his power, his magnificence, he remains unperturbed. He knows his might.

“Yessssss,” he says in that charming purr of a voice as he indicates for the messenger to make his delivery. The messenger swallows and unfurls the scroll and starts to read. The dragon listens, impassive, no hint of what is going on beneath the surface is evident to anybody observing, but so much is happening. This is the scene when you decide to deliver the news to the Greater that the Formal Relationship is over.

The Greater will listen to you. Your nervousness, possible fearfulness and borderline apologetic behaviour is already fuelling him. If somehow you are able to muster anger to propel the delivery of your message, your bristling indignation fuels him too. He has no need to erupt like the Lesser. He will allow you to say your piece.

Be in no doubt that the Greater will not welcome this news at all. Your words may be fuelling him, tinged as they are with anger or fear, but your intended action is one huge criticism to him. You are daring to reject him. You have the audacity to tell him that it is over. This is igniting his fury but you will not see it because the Greater is able to exert significant control over this fury ( also aided by the fuelled words you are providing) and therefore whilst the fury is churning away under the surface, the Greater is calculating and evaluating. He will listen to what is said and understand your concerns. Of course he will not accept them. How dare someone as inferior as you seek to challenge and blame someone as mighty as him but nevertheless he is no fool and as a consequence he will listen to what is said ready to pick your words apart.

Remaining in control you can expect to receive a Preventative Hoover which is unparalleled amongst our kind. We do not want to lose you as a primary source of fuel, this would amount to an even greater criticism than the threat of you doing so. This would wound us and weaken us through the cessation of our primary source of fuel. Accordingly, we will deploy a Preventative Hoover. This will manifest to you as a major charm offensive. You can expect to be told: –

“Nobody loves you the way that I do and I could not bear to lose you.”

“Why destroy all this for the sake of an argument or two?”

“I have given you so much but this is just the start.”

“There is a whole world for you and I to conquer together.”

“People look at us and they are envious of what we have, you do know that don’t you?”

“Why sacrifice what we have? Ask yourself, is it really worth it?”

“Don’t listen to what they say, they do not know just how much my love for you burns now, after all this time. You are all that matters to me.”

“Don’t spoil things, just as we were making a start.”

“I adore you. I love you. You are the one for me.”

“There are so many others who would give anything to be with me, but do you know what? I do not want them. I want you.”

“Let’s not argue, let’s go to bed.”

Note that there is no contrition in these statements. The Greater is not going to accept any blame here, not even false contrition, not yet. Observe also that any concerns you may have expressed about our behaviour will have been relegated to a position of insignificance, brushed over and largely ignored. This is because in the mind of the Greater you are privileged to be with us and your complaints really ought not to be made. Instead, the Greater will rely on using his charm and magnetism to underline his love for you, how wonderful things really are being in a relationship with him and that in essence, you would be a fool to go anywhere else.

Allied to this charm the Greater will also unleash some additional future faking. The Greater loves bribery and the promise of magnificence. He has delivered already during the golden period and we know that you want this again, so we will dangle this promised land in front of you. You can expect to be told: –

“Look, let’s book a holiday, you can choose. We can go away and you will see how right you were to stay with me.”

“It is a pity that you feel this way because I was about to propose to you.”

“I am disappointed really as I was looking at houses only yesterday for us to buy together.”

“The future for us is bright, do you realise that? Few couples are so fortunate to have what we have.”

“You cannot do this. I said to myself only yesterday that I wanted to grow old with you.”

“I hope you reconsider as I wanted to take you on a shopping spree, after all you deserve to be treated don’t you?”

Promises, future treasures and delights all dangled in front of you and so, so tempting.

The Preventative Hoover that the Greater will use will feel almost like a monologue. You will not be allowed to depart. The Greater will position himself between you and the door, he will gently take you by the arm and lead you to sit down, he will lock the car doors if this conversation takes place there and he will take such steps to ensure you are not given the opportunity to walk away easily. He will not be aggressive in taking such steps, instead he will act with apparent warmth and gentleness, his mouth moving as he continues his charming speech so that you barely notice he is moving you away from the front door. The Greater will keep going and going and going. He has the cognitive function, the energy levels and also he will be feeding off the fuel you will be giving him. You cannot help but smile at the charming comments, the resurrection of memories you and he have together, your eyes will betray you and he will use that fuel to power this Preventative Hoover.

Whereas the Lesser uses violence to shock you into submission and prevent your departure, the Greater will grind you down. It is almost hypnotic how he will say the same thing but in a thousand different ways, touching you here and there, smiling, charming and eroding your will and resistance. He knows how good he is at doing this. He did it before when he deployed the seduction hoover in the very beginning. He will remind you of all the good things, using those matters he has filed carefully away, extracting them now as he creates a show reel of all the best parts of the relationship. Each time you try to raise a complaint, he will shush you into submission, his calculating mind knowing which reassuring expression to wear. The Greater adopts the position that you are just a silly fool who does not know better. That you might have had your head turned by the seditious whispers of others, but this is not a concern. He will dismiss concerns, wave away worries and downplay detractions. Everything is under control. He is the generous benefactor who knows the world far better than you and you should just smile, do as you are told and everything will be alright.

The Greater has a slight concern about the threat to his primary source of fuel, but it is only slight. The reality is that he finds your threat more amusing to him because it allows him a further opportunity to engage in what he enjoys doing; controlling people. Like that mighty dragon who knows he could crush the messenger in an instant or incinerate him with flaming breath in the blink of an eye, the Greater knows that he could lash out at the victim, but he is enjoying drawing the fuel from his drawn out Preventative Hoover. It entertains him to see that “kitty has claws” as you threaten to walk out and leave. We are not panicked, we remain in control and we are toying with you, nudging and coaxing you into changing your mind and remaining. This is why the charm offensive is unleashed. The Greater has no need, yet, to lash out, nor is he going to demean himself with pity plays, that is for weaker people than him. No, this threat will be extinguished by him engaging in charm, a peacock’s performance and once you have been worn down into submission and changed your mind, his supremacy his affirmed, his primary source is secured and all is well as the golden period is reinstated. Understand though as the Greater leads you by the hand up the staircase to allow you to experience that passion between the sheets once again (causing you to believe that make-up sex is wonderful) he will shoot a glance at the mirror and those eyes will glint with malevolence. You have the golden period once again but your treachery has been noted and you will be punished for it once the devaluation starts again. You will be reminded of your foul traitorous behaviour and made to pay for it. We do not forget such things.

What though if this charm offensive for once fails us? This is the fourth time you have sought to escape and armed with superior knowledge and having undertaken proper preparation you are determined to see this through. How does the impending No Contact feel when you turn and walk towards that door?

The Greater will not apply a sob story. He will save those for the Follow Up Hoovers in due course when he is truly feeling sorry for himself at the loss of fuel. Instead, once the Greater realises that persuasion and charm has not worked and you are intent on leaving, the effect of this criticism starts to take its toll on us. Our control is beginning to slip. Not completely. There is no sudden eruption of fury like the lesser but instead the mask of control slips and you will be subjected to malice. It is rare (although not unheard of) for the Greater to use physical violence. If he does it is more along the lines of pushing, pulling, a raised fist (but one which does not connect), spitting or a sudden grasp of the throat or a slap. The intention is not to cause significant physical harm because the Greater regards that as beneath him. He is also alive to the need to avoid harming his plausible deniability by leaving evidence of physical violence. Instead he manifests it as a threat of what he is capable of, of what might happen if he is pushed. Hissed threats will be made as you try to leave: –

“You can expect to lose your job if you walk out on me, I will see to it.”

“I will report you to your regulatory body if you leave.”

“Those videos will be plastered all over the internet.”

“Do you really want your parents to see those photographs and see their princess taking on three men at once?”

“Be a shame if some drugs turned up in your car wouldn’t it?”

“You can kiss good-bye to your licence to practise if you go through that door.”

The Preventative Hoover will shift from charm to malice in an instant, pushed by your move towards exiting and cutting off the primary supply of fuel. If you respond to these threats with fear, anger, defiance or upset, you will provide fuel and this will encourage the greater to continue. Whereas before he engaged in charm to wear you down, we will now engage in using malice to frighten you into submission and we will keep going and going until you have either given in or walked out.

If you give in we will be delighted and we will welcome you back to the fold with open arms, exhibiting the magnanimity that we believe we possess. You made a mistake, of course you did, but like a sinner who has come to repent, you are forgiven (but not really) and you are treated like a naughty child who has seen the error of her ways. The golden period is reinstated once again but there will be a price to pay further down the line.

Should you evade the charm offensive and also the malicious assault and still walk away from the Greater then one of two things will happen. Generally, with Lower Greaters an Initial Grand Hoover will shortly follow. The Formal Relationship has ended. The Greater wants his primary source back and therefore he will launch an IGH combining charm with contrition. The Upper Greater will be wounded by this cessation of fuel and mortally offended that someone could both decide to leave him and fail to succumb to his masterful powers. This will result in the Greater erupting in a frenzy. He will deploy smear campaigns against the victim, rally his coterie and lieutenants to ensure that repeated malign follow-up hoovers are launched. This is done with the intention of making your life a complete and utter misery so that you come crawling back asking for it to stop.

If the Initial Grand Hoover fails to charm/pity you into returning or the malicious campaign fails to batter you into submission then we will be placed into Chaos Mode as our fuel levels drop. Three things are placing us under considerable pressure at this point.

  1. Our fuel levels are dropping because there is no longer a primary source;
  2. We have used up energy through the IGH or malign hoovers;
  3. The criticism from losing you and failing to restore you as a primary source has wounded us considerably.

Unlike the Lesser or Mid-Range who would risk entering depression and stupor at this point, the Greater still has sufficient resources to launch a survival bid. We will drain our supplementary sources of fuel turning to friends, family, colleagues and so forth as we frantically find a new primary source and once done we will achieve stability. Given the higher cognitive function of the Greater, the increased charm levels and calculating ability, we have the best chance at using these supplementary sources of fuel to power the seduction of a new primary source. Once that has been achieved there is stability and in due course consideration will turn (subject to the spheres of influence) to hoovering you again.

What happens if you fail to stand before us to deliver the message of cessation? Indeed, given the lengths we will go to as you have read above, if you do decide to escape a Greater you ought not to deliver the news in person. If you send a message or allow us to work it out that you have escaped, then the immediate reaction of the Greater will be to be wounded. The failure to realise you were on the cusp of leaving highlights a weakness in our perception and the fact you have chosen to leave us reinforces that you regard us as sub-standard, deficient in some way and it is a huge criticism. The fury will ignite but the Greater will still remain in control, but not for long. His immediate response will be to launch an Initial Grand Hoover to get you back using charm and on this occasion there will be more pity involved because the wounding will be greater.

If this IGH does not work, the wound increases, the fury becomes too great and the Greater will lose control and lash out with malign hoovers in order to draw fuel and stabilise or to cause you to come crawling back. If no fuel is yielded or you do not return, then the Greater will be pushed into Chaos Mode as described above and will drain supplementary sources and secure a new primary source as quickly as possible,

What if you have read my works and not only prepared for your departure but you have executed it in such a way that the Greater cannot even contact you. The IGH does not even get off the ground. The malign hoovers cannot be deployed because you cannot be contacted. In such an instance the Greater is in real danger because he has suffered repeated wounding criticisms: –

  1. He did not anticipate the danger which offends his sense of omnipotence;
  2. He has lost his primary source of fuel and is not only weakened by that but wounded by being so careless;
  3. He could not contact the primary source and thus has been outwitted; and
  4. His usual responses have been rendered impotent.

In such an instance the Greater will turn to supplementary sources immediately and secure a new primary source. It is usually the case (for the reasons outlined above) that the Greater is able to secure a new primary source pretty quickly and therefore achieve stability. If on the rare occasion this does not happen and there are no supplementary sources available to sustain him the construct will crumble and the Creature will be unleashed. The Greater will sink into a severe depression, almost becoming catatonic as his construct which he wanted the world to see has collapsed and the very thing which he does not want to be unleashed has escaped. I would reinforce that this is extremely rare because of the Greater’s ability to use supplementary sources and secure a primary source. Achieving the consignment to oblivion of the Greater through No Contact is very rare.

Suffice to say a successful departure and implementation of No Contact will almost slay the dragon and will result in the Greater becoming preoccupied with healing the wounds you have caused and focussing on his new primary source, giving you a period of respite, until such time as the conditions become right for further follow-up hoovers, but that is a different story.



  1. Incredibly descriptive and thorough. I find your insight… disturbing. In regards to Lesser, Mid-Range, and Greater narcissists, do you also distinguish between Covert, Grandiose, and Communal Narcissists? If so, do coverts tend to be on the Greater range, since they seem to be more ‘self-aware’ of perceived shortcomings in attaining their ambitions, yet aware of their manipulative machinations? And would they use these narcissistic tactics as a means to quell the wound of insuperable ambitions?

  2. How does a narcissist feel about no contact from what use to be the primary source but is now the secondary because he has a new primary source? Do they still seek fuel from the demoted source ?

    1. Hello ANK, the narcissist would be unlikely to seek fuel from the demoted source when in the golden period with the replacement primary source. He is infatuated with his new toy. However, when the devaluation starts of the replacement, the narcissist will look to hoover the previous source who has been demoted. If that source deploys no contact, it will reduce the chances of a hoover being effected because there is either no hoover Trigger or the Hoover Execution Criteria is not met.

      1. Thank you HG.

        I’m not even sure that the man I have been involved with is a narcissist or not. So much of what I’ve been reading sounds familiar – the chase and seduction, the sexual aspect makes me think he is one, and I am certain he has chased the new source in the same manner as he did me.

        Towards the end of last year he started to ghost, the everyday texts became less frequent all of a sudden, perhaps because he had secured the new source that I found out about accidentally (maybe he wanted me to find out since he was texted her while I sat next to him and saw?) On confronting him he said he wanted to continue to see me. Is this because he was not fully certain of the new source?

        I think he is is truly in the golden period now as the texting is even less, only when it suits him, because he blocks in me in between.

        Do narcissists always try to hoover? I would have thought that another new primary source would be more attractive than hoovering the demoted source.

        P.S. Your site is the most fascinating I have ever come across.

        1. The hoover may well be to get another primary source by turning to somebody who is well known already (and thus tenderised). The hoover happens subject to whether there is a Hoover Trigger and the meeting of the Hoover Execution Criteria. Thank you for you kind compliments.

          Yes he said he wanted to continue to see you because he wanted to deflect your confrontation and also because he had not embedded the new source.

  3. HG if one wounds a greater in this fashion, is revenge the only motive to keep coming back, if successful this would reinforce ones omnipotence’s, right? Or is it still the fuel or a mixture of both?

  4. HI, I’ve recently ended a serious relationship with my greater. Everything you say is completely on point of the way Brian controlled our relationship. He was caught on a dating site and turned it around on me. When I wanted to end things he started with the slapping then shoving but this time it went to a whole other level and he started punching me in the face and knocking me unconscious and then he would grab my face and hold it and splash water in my face to bring me back to consciousness so I could see him punch me and knock me out again?? he sis this more than once. One of the last things that I remember is saying Brian you just broke my nose but he kept going and when I woke up the next day he was gone and had taken my phone and completely deleted my facebook, all my pic’s and individually blocked over 200 people on my account….What can you tell me about this? and yes I charged him then he. He say’s he doesn’t remember anything. The day after he came to return my phone and said before hand “what happened lastnight” and he say”s he doesn’t remember doing it. And called me a week later and asked me if I have it in my heart to drop the charges?? wtf

  5. So if the Greater can no longer contact you electronically and has resorted to leaving notes at your home is there reason to worry about the efforts escalating or becoming physical? No acknowledgement of this activity has been made to the Narc. Am I correct to assume no reaction / no contact is the correct plan if action?

    1. Hello Bright New Day, dependent on his fuel levels the Greater may well try to keep contacting you through the placing of notes. It is less likely to become physical when dealing with a Greater. You are undertaking the correct approach by not acknowledging or reacting to these notes. Maintain that and he will eventually stop.

  6. Time and time again you tell my story. I almost question if it were my ex writing but I know he would never admit to anything, whether it be his actions or intent. I am post escape/discard/escape/discardX10 if that makes sense…I would break up with him & kick him out, just to hear his beautifully rehearsed promises of the worlf, just to have him take control again then turn the tables and begin to devalue & discard me. Im wondering, do you ever offer advise privately?

    1. Rebecca I had a phone consult with HG and would highly recommend it, he’s so on the mark and I really got a lot from the call.

      Good luck

    2. Hmmm I wrote this reply early and my phone died so apologies if this posts twice🙈, Rebecca I had a phone consult with HG and found him invaluable, I cant recommend him highly enough. Well worth it the fee and I definitely found myself much more comfortable with my situation after talking to him…. he’s very easy to listen too with that fabulous accent too 😂😂😂

  7. HG,
    My narcissist ex discarded me a month ago after I caught him cheating again. We have a 2 year old together and have had very little contact since the discard. He does have a new primary, but recently he started texting me once a day asking how our daughter is. I never contact him, ever. I gray rock respond “fine” and he says thank you. He then gave me cash to help pay a bill. Is this normal narc behavior? A month ago he would not speak to me at all unless he was in a rage and calling me names.

      1. Thank you for the prompt response. I was just very confused as to why he was all of sudden being nice. Other than that he was not hoovering me and as I stated before he is currently seducing his new primary.

  8. I made him exit and I stayed. After delivering my message and setting him ‘free’ (and myself although that took another 2 years to realize) after 17 years of marriage, my greater N unleashed 2 years of hell on me after his departure, pure malice like you described using his luitenants, smear campaign, the kids, financial control, psychological control, manipulation, bewilderment, charm, pity party, etc etc. He truly tried to break me, but did not succeed. I recognize so much in this story of how the Greater responds… it’s so ugly…

  9. Hi my discard came on the night before our wedding and he caused a violence scene where he assaulted me and caused a concussion as we ll as strangled me until I passed out.. the police were called and he was arrested and a Criminal Protection Order was placed.There has been no contact since 12/19/15 and the District Atty is charging him with 3 felonies. He has an atty and they keep postponing it. He has requested a jury trial because he will not plea to any felonies. It took a month to secure new supply and he moved her into the home he and I shared. But he has not been able to impress people with her and his smear tactics have not made the impact he wanted so he seems distraught… angry.. unhappy..miserable..
    I blocked him from my social media and I am wondering what he will plot now as he sees me moving on with my life and becoming even more successful in my career..
    Do you have any advise for me?
    Thank you,

    1. Hello Leticia, maintain no contact. His behaviour with requesting a jury trial is born out of his desire to punish you by not accepting what you are alleging and also because he consider that he has done nothing wrong (sense of entitlement and failure to accept accountability). Ensure your defences are built high in terms of no contact as he is likely to want to hoover you in a malign fashion and probably using physical violence (remember he sees it as his entitlement). Since his new primary source is not proving effective (if it was he would be less concerned with you) this is also why he is contesting the charges and he remains a dangerous opponent. If you have not done so already I suggest you read Black Fag, Black Hole, Smeared and No Contact.

  10. If I didn’t know better I’d swear you had been eavesdropping on my life…this was the way my greater narc was as well. I just had a dream very similar to this piece you have written. ..Whatever your motives you have been a great help to me. Thank you very much, Mr. Tudor.

  11. Absolutely perfectly precise and thank you, years and years of knowledge and finally I’m free, with absolutely no way of contact… I love the way you say the dragon has been slayed, it’s the way I feel A huge huge thank you to you. X

  12. I just remembered one of my exes final games when I said goodbye. We were to meet at Starbucks and I was ten minutes early and didn’t see her car so I went in and looked around and there wasn’t a table so I went back to my car to wait for her. At exactly 1:00 she texted me that she was inside. She was already inside and had watched me walk in and walk back out without saying a word. I asked her if she saw me and she replied “yes”. Your dragon description brought this memory back of her sitting there.
    Was she confident sitting there?
    Was she still plotting of rehearsing?

    What percentage of your IP’s welcome the invite back to the bedroom with you? Is there a certain type of my kind that are more enticed by the sex? Like the somatic of your kind would be interested? I still was shocked that she was able to get me in her car and kissing her. She was very forceful on getting me on her lap. I think she thought that would bring back all my feelings and I would change my mind.
    And like you, I will only admit it here, but I’m not sure I could resist her if I was one on one with her somewhere. The charm is still powerful to me. I suppose the longer I go with NC the more that feeling will decrease.

    But I have made so much progress from the first time I read this. Thanks to you!!!

  13. Erm… so you’re compairing yourself to an all knowing all powerful dragan? As wonderful as that sounds, I’d almost descride it as exciting, but you you think your perception of the situation is screwed by grandiose beliefs in yourself and your ‘power’? I mean at the end of the day you are just a regular man, and the girl in front of you might be timid but perhaps that’s because you chose a weak insecure person? If you were standing in front of another woman who just wanted to be rid of you and you sensed her lack of interest and she was there just to deliver a message would you feel the same power? I don’t mean to be offensive I’m just questioning everything now to learn as much as I can.

    1. Hi Em, I appreciate you politeness caveat and I understand where you are coming from but I am far from regular and my targets are not timid (they might be for some admittedly) but mine are not. If that person just wanted to deliver a message and was not giving me fuel, my power would start to drain but this never happens because they always provide fuel in this scenario.

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