The Empathic Supernova


What is the Empathic Supernova?

In order to detail this phenomenon, it is first necessary to consider when it might appear and what is behind its appearance.

The repeated application of our manipulations is deployed for the purposes of maintaining control over you. This control reinforces our notion of superiority,  omnipotence and impregnability and enables us to draw fuel from our appliances and most of all you as our primary source.

I have made mention of the Empathic Group, the group which lies to the left of the empathic-narcissistic spectrum and within this group there are three schools of the empathic individual; the Co-Dependent, the Super Empath and the Empath.

The sustained application of the many and varied manipulations produces results for us. It also takes its toll on our victims. The Co-Dependent will cling on, desperate for the self-definition which manifests as a consequence of their ensnarement with us. They will soak up the abuse, the confusion and the control until they reach a point of breakdown. The cumulative effect of the silent treatments, the gas lighting, the physical abuse, the psychological trauma, financial mistreatment and sexual degradation eventually causes the limpet-like Co-Dependent to collapse into numbness, malfunction and potential hospitalisation. They gave and gave until suddenly they fell off the cliff and their fuel provision remained impressive on Monday and by Tuesday it had stopped. No longer capable of pumping out fuel, attending to our requirements and showering us with appropriate traits and residual benefits, this failure to function invariably brings about the discard of this individual. The discarded Co-Dependent, although distraught at the loss of the narcissist which they crave, is in no position to try to bring about the resumption of the relationship and thus, whilst we focus on their replacement primary source, they are allowed a period by which they can recover and once the lights switch back on again and the fuel starts to pump, the devaluation of their replacement has begun, so we come looking and hoovering for the Co-Dependent. Unable to resist, because of the nature of the hoovering and their own vulnerability, they are hoovered back in and the narcissistic cycle continues.

Whilst third parties may try to assist the Co-Dependent to see and understand what has happened to them, their own substantial need to connect with a narcissist means it is very hard to make them take notice and stay away from us. Unless physically removed and isolated, the Co-Dependent will drift back to us. If not the original narcissist, a replacement narcissist will invariably be found.

The empathic-narcissistic spectrum is a sliding scale that represents both empathic and narcissistic traits. On the far left the empathic traits are more numerous and stronger whilst the narcissistic traits are fewer and weaker. Move to the right and the empathic traits begin to lessen in number, their effects less evident and the narcissistic traits begin to increase and become more prevalent. Eventually, as one reaches the Narcissistic Group, on the right of this spectrum, the empathic traits have disappeared and all that remain are narcissistic traits which become more numerous and stronger the further right one goes within this Narcissistic Group.

Accordingly, with the Co-Dependent, he or she will have many empathic traits and they are strong in nature. Their devotion to love, their honesty, decency, excellent listening skills, positivity etc are most evident and contribute to create a highly empathic individual. The narcissistic traits are almost invisible and the few that exist are weak. Accordingly, this prevalence of empathic traits attracts and is attracted to the prevalence of extensive and strong narcissistic traits. They locked together, complementing one another and consequently the Co-Dependent is inexorably drawn to those within the Narcissistic Group, with next to nothing in terms of their own narcissistic traits to act as some kind of repellant.

The Empath may also find themselves shutting down, but more usually they are prevented from reaching a position of complete numbing though the intervention of a third party. Sure enough the toll exacted on the Empath is considerable and has damaging consequences, but, in general, they manage to avoid more often the fate of the Co-Dependent. Instead, rather than giving and giving until shut down occurs (as is the case with the Co-Dependent) the Empath’s performance deteriorates in terms of fuel output in a more gradual fashion which means that when it dips below a threshold of acceptability for our kind, the Empath is also discarded. Not so damaged as to be unable to function, the Empath will endeavour to re-connect with our kind, having sufficient energy and ability to do so, but they will be shunned as part of this discard until it is time to hoover them. Unaware of what they have been ensnared by and with capabilities improved after a period of respite arising from the discard, the Empath is sucked back in by the narcissist and thus the narcissistic cycle continues.

The Empath however may also realise that something is wrong, or assisted by third parties and more amenable to listening, takes notice of what these third parties are telling him or her. They have a moment of ‘awakening’ and with that realise that they must remain away from our grip, however hurtful and hard it may be and thus they eventually escape, putting distance between them and our kind.

The Empath has numerous empathic traits and they are of strength but they are not on the same scale as the Co-Dependent. The Empath will have some narcissistic traits, not many and not especially strong in nature, but they will have more narcissistic traits than the Co-Dependent. Their status as an Empath (along with the fact that there are more Empaths than Co-Dependents) means that Empaths become the bread and butter target for our kind. They too are attracted to us, not with the almost hopeless vulnerability of the Co-Dependent, but they remain not only attracted to our kind but a target.

Finally, there is the Super Empath. The Super Empath is an excellent provider of fuel also and comes with a confidence and a fieriness which proves most tempting to our kind. The Super Empath sees his or her role as helping, fixing, healing and brining goodness to those around them. They have considerable energy, they are capable and their capacity for sustaining our abuses also makes them a considerably attractive prospect. The Co-Dependent can sustain considerable abuse until suddenly, like a light being extinguished, that is it. The Empath also can sustain our manipulations but their slide is slower and more gradual. The Super Empath, blessed with a vast capacity for empathy and goodness is also somebody who can sustain a lengthy campaign of abuse. There is no slide downwards with this individual like the Empath. There is no sudden collapse like the Co-Dependent. Instead the Super Empath goes in to Supernova mode.

The trait make-up of the Super Empath is different from their cousins in the Empathic Group. Whereas the Co-Dependent has strong and many empathic traits with little and low narcissistic traits and the Empath has few and fairly low narcissistic traits but more and quite strong empathic traits, the Super Empath has a different constitution.

The Super Empath has very strong and numerous empathic traits. He or she also has a number of narcissistic traits (more than the Co-Dependent and the Empath but not as many as the Narcissistic Group) and they are stronger in nature than those experienced by the Co-Dependent and the Empath.

This arrangement is not problematic. Liken the Super Empath’s narcissistic make-up to the light from a candle and their empathic make-up the light from a spotlight. The intensity of the spotlight is so bright that the candle light is barely noticed. Accordingly, the narcissistic element to the Super Empath does not appear. The Super Empath behaves in an empathic way and thus is a target for our kind.

There comes a time however when the sustained abuse and the awareness of the Super Empath reaches a critical point. Rather than switch off or slide into decline, the Super Empath will decide that enough is enough. In some instances, this means that the Super Empath will escape and follow a similar route to that of the Empath and distance themselves from the narcissist.

On other occasions they enter into Supernova mode. When this happens, the Super Empath will dim their empathic traits. This can only be dimming. The empathic traits cannot be shut off as they are wired into the empath’s dna. Moreover, this dimming can only continue for a period of time and is not permanent. The naturally strong empathic nature of the Super Empath means that it will blaze bright again.

However, when this dimming takes places, the gap between empathy and narcissism in the Super Empath lessens so that the narcissistic traits are more prevalent. They do not dominate nor do they take over, but they are allowed to ‘shine’. However, whereas in our kind the application of our narcissistic traits is unfettered since we have no empathic traits and thus these traits are directed in a malevolent, harmful and destructive manner, the Super Empath uses these unleashed narcissistic traits for ‘good’.

This means that they will fight back against our kind and remain in the relationship with us. They will shut off the fuel provision, they will engage in manipulation of us, having learned how to effect it form their accompanying journey with out kind. The Super Empath will wound and wound, striking blow upon blow against the narcissist.  It is worth pointing out that the Super Empath does not necessarily know that they are with a narcissist (they may only realise this later) but rather they know that something is very wrong in the relationship and it must no longer continue.

Thus when some people ask the question

“Can you become a narcissist from being with a narcissist?”


“Can I pick up narcissistic traits from my experience of being entangled with a narcissist?”

The answer remains no.

But, if you find that you are exhibiting such traits and you are deploying them against the narcissist, what has happened is that you are allowing your inherent narcissistic traits to have greater prominence. You keep them under control and you are not allowing them to harm or hurt innocent parties, but rather you are applying them against the narcissist in order to strike back. You always had these traits, you have not gained them by being with us, but what you have learned is how to manipulate from being with us and now you are turning those manipulations against us.

The effect against us is varied.

The Lesser Narcissist will discard immediately with a display of ignited fury as he seeks to escape the turning of the tables. He will need to get away from this empowered Super Empath and find a new primary source straight away. He wants to shrink from this blazing  supernova of power which is causing him considerable difficulty through the cessation of fuel and the wounding from repeated criticism.

The Mid-Range Narcissist will find himself in a tormented loop as he tries to assert control. He will not comprehend truly what is happening. He will not want to lose the Super Empath owing to the fuel provision, but he is finding that his ability to manipulate and the reasonable degree of calculation that he has, is being sorely tested. He will try to assert his control through passive aggressive means, even pleading with the Super Empath to stop and ‘why can’t you be good to me again’? He will roll out the pity plays and sympathy cards in order to try to achieve superiority again. However,  either the Super Empath decides to escape and leaves the Mid-Ranger in a confused and bewildered state or the Mid-Ranger slinks away and discards,unable to sustain the fight and needing a new and far more compliant primary source.

The Greater Narcissist will rail against this insurrection and fight back. He will draw on fuel from alternative sources (usually the IPSS or IPSSs he has in the wings along with fuel form those NISS who are his inner and outer circle friends). He will relish the challenge shown by the Super Empath and a real battle of wills ensues as each combatant deploys manipulation after manipulation against one another. This hammer and tongs clash of the  titans sees the Super Empath applying what they have learned, similar to the apprentice turning on his or her master, as the old hand seeks to slap down the irreverent upstart. The Super Empath may withdraw and escape, satisfied that they have made their mark and scarred the Greater. The Greater may ultimately recognise that only a stalemate (for now) can ensue and breaks off, discarding the Super Empath and focusses on the acquisition of a new primary source (or more likely the promotion of an already ensnared IPSS). The Greater however will not leave matters there. A note will be made to rejoin battle in due course and bring the Super Empath to heel.

Thus the Empathic Supernova is when the Super Empath determines that enough is enough and he or she reduces their empathic traits, allowing the narcissistic traits to come to the fore and in so doing he or she trains their sights on making life difficult, miserable and awkward for the narcissist. This is why our kind proceed with caution with the Super Empath. Their capacity for sucking up the abusive devaluation and their impressive fuel provision is tempting indeed, but reaching the critical point and causing the ignition of the Empathic Supernova can have dire consequences for our kind.

Not for me of course. I relish the challenge and the assertion of hegemonic dominance. Obviously.




  1. Analytical perspective without heart. Obviously written by a narcissist, and likely even more so, a psychopath. Anyone who would put Co-dependency, Empathy, and Super empathy into the same categories clearly had no internal insight and is witnessing these traits from an external perspective.
    Some truths:
    1. Co-dependency is nothing like empathy. One is a dysfunction in relating. The latter is a spirit-filled gift.
    2. There is no regular and super empath. There is only an unconscious or a conscious one.
    3. A conscious, awakened empath IS the most powerful being that exists. There is no power greater. A narcissist pales in comparison.
    4. There is no continuum scale that has narcissism on one side and super empathy on the other. The two do not share a “scale” and do not exist in the same reality. A narcissist getting you to believe in such a scale is simply a trick. It’s another way to pull you into a mental relationship with them where you feel on the same level. Be aware.
    Remember, Narcissists want define your reality. They want you to connect with them. They want to take your soul. Stay connected to God. Walk in the power of Jesus Christ.
    “Submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you” James 4:7
    Satan is only a created being who, remember, has already been defeated. Do not defeat loose your own soul by giving him your heart.

    1. ss

      Here’s some more truths:

      1. Those are your beliefs not truths. You don’t get to decide the truth for another.
      2. The fact that you dismiss the information presented and the scale as simply a “trick” but then offer up what is to me the biggest fantasy and greatest con of all time in God and Jesus Christ as a solution, is laughable. My truth is that you are the one who has been “tricked”. There is far more evidence to support the scale.

      See how that works? You can have an opinion, but you can’t just say what you like and call it a truth.

  2. Thank you so much it makes so much sense to me, I am an empath but I can be very manipulative when needed, so much that I’ve started to think maybe I am becoming a narcissist.
    I’ve discovered your blog à couple of days ago and cannot stop reading it. And I’ve already read 2 of your books and will read all of them. Thank you

          1. Toad or road, the end game is recovery. Nice new pic, by the way. What inspired the change?

          2. Thank you.

            Oh there was a request for a Tudor arm and I always deliver don’t I?

          3. You are welcome HG.
            You always deliver unless you choose not to deliver. The ask to deliver an arm v a face is quite different. That’s your choice, too. You have helped me heal. That is neither your arm nor your face. That is you. Thanks again HG.

          4. Kindly requesting the Tudor face unobstructed, the photo you use on your passport or drivers licence. 🙂 Can you deliver?

          5. I was gonna say: he NEARLY always delivers. But I didn’t want to be pushy with my eye fetish.

          6. Sniglet,

            Hee hee! I’m glad you tried, on behalf of all of us! Usually driver’s license photos turn out bad though, but we don’t care. Unobstructed is indeed the goal!😁

      1. Re: toad to freedom
        That must be my favourite typo of all time. I’m imagining a cool rocker toad in a black leather jacket and sunglasses, crossing the Golden Gate Bridge on a Harley Davidson. God why can’t I be cool like that.
        Also, welcome to the blog, H! Glad you made it here and I feel the same way about being a bit manipulative sometimes. If you’re an Empath, might be the case that you have more narcisstic traits than most, although our kind tends to overestimate the extent of our manipulative capabilities.
        I’ve had a few opportunities to get back at narcissist without providing them fuel and found that to be both entertaining and it made me feel like justice was being served.
        But I have to really get that hamster on the wheel, running at full speed to figure out how I could get under their skin effectively. We have to be quite smart and careful about it whereas for narcissists, this is completely instinctual.

        1. Desiree, I enjoyed the visual of the Rocker Toad. I do truly love all things toad. Even if it had to be a typo to get HG to talk about them!

        2. Thank you Desiree! Exactly! I feel the same too. I’ve spent several years in a corporate environment, surrounded by narcissists and sociopaths and to survive I had to learn to see the world from their perspective and act accordingly. I enjoy “playing the game” for a certain amount of time but it depletes my energy. At a certain point, it is like my soul is hurting and the situation has to stop, otherwise I loose my sanity. If I act this way, it has to have an end goal.

          1. I totally understand, H! It started in childhood for me. I was raised by a narcissistic mother and my best chance of survival was to anticipate what she would want me to do next and try to stay one step ahead of her. It is born out of necessity, but one can develop a certain appetite for it. Eventually, that quality needs to be harnessed in order to get the hell outta there, otherwise we risk overestimating ourselves, get hurt and some people just don’t recover.
            It’s also extremely dangerous because while playing this game, you may be feeding your own addiction to narcissists and the longer you stay in that toxic environment, the harder it gets for you to remain calm and logical, which is absolutely vital in order to keep “playing” and not get eaten alive.
            Best to stay the hell out, but where it can’t yet be avoided, this kind of quality can be very useful.

          2. I am sorry for what you’ve endured with your mother, Desiree. My experience with narcissists in the corporate world led me to my father, who is very covert. I totally agree with the fact that “we may be feeding our own addictions to narcissists”.

  3. People talk about engaging therapists. I have never hired nor worked with one. From childhood I always thought that to allow someone to analyse my mind in detail, describe my thoughts and feeling to them I would be a weakling and there must be something seriously wrong with me as a person to need counselling. If I cannot deal with myself internally and take responsibility for what I do and think then I’ve let myself down. I’d be a fucking loser. If I cannot concur myself then no therapist can. That is just my fundamental way of thinking, my approach since childhood. I don’t talk to girlfriends or anyone about my family or partner in detail. They do to me and it is interesting then becomes tiresome. That is one of the reasons I come here to read about narcissism but it’s fascinating how comments are detailed with feelings and reactions etc. I don’t analyse things in the open. It is all performed internally and takes a massive amount of control because it is difficult. Mentally I naturally subdue myself and appear calm. I don’t know if a therapist would be needed or could help me. Besides who the hell cares what I really feel and think anyway. After all everyone has their own problems to battle in this life.

    Again I’m not saying my way is the right way but I’m open to change…

    By the way – I’ve tried mimicking the touchy feely stuff in my daily interactions and it not working for me. My mom has always displayed love and tenderness towards me but didn’t pick the same characteristics growing up.

    1. “I don’t analyse things in the open.“

      Well, what was this comment but an interesting and quite detailed analysis about your internal way of functioning? 😀

      I relate partially.
      I found that here, anonymously, it is easier.

      1. Sniglet,
        I find it hard to trust others or even myself. However, I do have a therapist. I control many aspects of the therapy; however, she has a way of challenging my thinking which helps me. I have found that the way I analyze is based on my perception, my experiences, who I am, and what I think. For example, before HG, I analyzed each of my relationships with the narcissists based on how I understood the world. Things didn’t make sense with that perception. It was finding HG who explained things from his understanding of the world of narcissists that clarified aspects I didn’t know. That is how therapy works for me in other areas.
        I am like Abe in that the anonymous factor allows for some sharing on here that many family and friends do not know.
        I am not touchy feely either, neither in the physical form or the great lovey words.

    2. Sniglet,

      If that is how you feel, there’s nothing wrong with it. Everybody is different.

      “Besides who the hell cares what I really feel and think anyway” – you would be surprised though. I am sure the people who love you would care. I know I care what you think and I always love to read your comments!

    3. Hi Sniglet, I do not know you, but I care. It is not weak to share. It actually takes great strength, but clearly you possess that, so maybe it is more about comfort level/trust or maybe about your very high self expectations?

      I am very self reliant, but I have found that it is impossible to shift my own perspective without a bit of outside influence. Whether it be something read or something someone says, when it is read/heard it resonates and triggers an epiphany, and change begins. This has happened several times here for me (and I am very private IRL). Since you are anonymous, why not give it a try to the degree you are comfortable? No more, no less. Or create a separate screen name for those times you open up if you’ll feel more comfortable.

      As far as attempting to be touchy feely, forget all that and just be true to you. Be authentic. Honor your heart, mind and body and see what follows. I feel confident you will find comfort and acceptance when you are your most authentic (at your own pace).

      1. HI FYC – thank you for your reply. I’ll try to be more candid in my posts. Nobody knows me anyway. Ha! When I first started reading this blog it helped me put a name to what I already knew. I did not know it was called Narcissism, now I do. I was familiar with the ‘symptoms’ through life experiences and observations. My first reaction to the blog was that ‘AHA’ moment it was wonderful that someone like HG Tudor was able to explain it like no other writer followed by a very mixed reaction 1. happiness I found my answers; 2. ‘why the hell do you have to divulge this stuff; this is supposed to be secret. I don’t know why had that 2nd reaction. I’m over it now but my reaction surprised me to say the least. Why the fuck do I care if others know this information?! I posted that comment about #2 a while back to HG. I don’t think he replied.

        1. Hi Sniglet, That is an interesting reaction. What did you most identify with when you first arrived? My reaction was more, “How can HG be so accurate in writing all of this?” And, “This sounds EXACTLY like the Ns I know!” My next reaction was to spread the word far and wide about the truths here, and lastly I wanted to help HG because he helped me.

          Do you think your feeling of discomfort with HG knowing and sharing this information felt a bit violating to your sense of privacy (since you seem to internally process everything)? Kind of like an exposure of your inner thoughts (even though his writings are not about us per se)? Just curious.

          1. Hi FYC – I identified a number of points he described which were very accurate from different perspectives. You imparting the knowledge learnt here will certainly help and hopefully improve people’s reaction and defence mechanisms when communicating with that narcissist. You are doing the right and honourable thing by your fellow empaths. I did not feel discomfort with HG knowing the topic – it was the opposite. I was very happy that I found someone who could describe it with such clarity. I was just displeased and astounded that he’d share this knowledge with others. He was the only writer who made me feel that way. I didn’t have the same reaction with authors. You are probably right about the reason I felt the way I did. There is more to it and out of respect for HG I’d like to speak with him about it first – unless my routine indelicate comments have put him off. Haha ..He has spent so much time replying to me on his site and I to him over the course of a couple of years that I’d like his opinion at a more detailed level in a consultation first.

            Who was the narcissist in your life? A friend, a parent, siblings? Are you okay?

          2. Sorry, Sniglet, I replied but it did not go through as I am in bad coverage. It is sweet of you to ask, and yes, I am very well. I have had Ns on all fronts in the past, but have narrowed it down to very little contact (and only that with a familial N).

            No worries about sharing with me. I hope you do continue with HG. I’m around if you ever want to chat. Take care 😉

  4. Hi HG Tudor, thank you very much for this site of disclosure.
    I am an Italian woman I write from Italy so I hope that you will forgive my very poor english.

    I think I am a Super Empath with narcissistic traits, lately I came across a narcissist I think of the Greater category because he has openly declared his disorder and being followed by a doctor.
    The dialogue between us had begun because I had shown him admiration, moral support and understanding and I had defended him from those who have it with him. But at the same time I always gave him battle when there was something on which we did not agree.

    And I have always told him that he will hardly be able to dominate me as he did with others and that I will probably sooner or later flee from him.
    I confirm you that has challenging attitudes towards me. When it seems that the thing is definitely over, he reappears with email and text messages. I think he does it on purpose to send me into confusion. in addition, the devaluation phase has already begun because in the last few days it has made me critical of my appearance ( he says that
    I need to lose weight even if I wear a very small size). He told me this after that our knowledge in common they were complimented in front of him for my very sexy and seductive appearance, saying to him: “lucky you can have her”.
    Before that he never had anything to say about my appearance, he had always said thathe really found me ok.
    He’s very focused on aesthetics, takes care of his appearance, goes to the gym, puts anti wrinkle creams, uses more cosmetics than me. he always says that all women want him.

    And then he also expressed considerations that sounded like criticism of my way of being with him (he says I fly too much with my imagination but it’s not true because my feet are firmly planted on the ground and I always give them neutral answers), but then he says he wants continue the communication and that rebel women like me they intrigue him.
    Now it’s four days since  I do not hear it.

    He did not tell me he wanted to interrupt, but he did not even give me signs of presence. He simply put the silence. so I applied the no contact and  I blocked it everywhere.
    What do you think he will do now?
    I thank you for the possible answer.

    1. Hello Rockgirl and welcome. Personal matters such as these are best addressed through consultation because I need more information from you and I need to convey more information to you.

      1. Please stop corresponding with the narcissist HG Tudor he will only allow abuse with his advice find a therapist who specializes in narcissistic personality disorder/narcissistic abuse unless you want to plunge yourself in more emotional darkness and confusion.

        1. 1. “He will only allow abuse with his advice.” Where’s the evidence of this. Oh, there isn’t any.
          2. “He will only allow abuse with his advice.” Mind you, you could of course actually read all of the testimonials here and in the comments (plus the thousands in the e-mails I receive- I could send you copies if you like, suitably redacted) and realise that my work helps many,many people. Then again, that would require some semblance of intelligence to process this.

          3. “Find a therapist who specialises in NPD” – oddly enough many people found therapists of no use whatsoever and were left even more confused.
          4. It’s entertaining that you denigrate my work (without clearly ever having read any of it) yet use one of my terms in your ‘handle’.

          Ordinarily I would ignore such an idiotic comment but I decided I may as well avail myself of the opportunity to respond and highlight what a grade A clown you are.

          1. Trolls sheB McTrollin from under the bridge. As my testimonial states, you have helped me. Y’all don’t need my input, but I will give it because you, HG, have helped me so much and I can never repay it. Thank you.

          2. I’m here always. I don’t comment as much. It’s because you helped me heal. I’m not as bitter. I still have flareups, which is why I continue to read. I’m trying to piece together who this troll is.

          3. You made quick work of getting rid of her. She was on YT yesterday and poof! she’s not on YT today. Nice.

          4. 1jaded1
            Oh, snap! Don’t fuck with The Tudes! He will sting so fast; it will make your head spin.

          5. Hi Jenna. Is she? The person I saw isn’t. I can be wrong though and often am. I’m going to look. If anything, this person should be giving credit to HG. If she isn’t shame on her, but why is she still here_

          6. Breaching copyright. Because my material is the best and she hasn’t the common courtesy to ask whether my work can be used and referenced. Tells you all you need to know about the individual.

          1. That is fantastic Jenna! I’m happy you are better now. Sometimes I wanna talk to someone about things like you did or most people here do but something is holding me back and I don’t know what. Takes me years to make one small step. That cannot be normal. I hate it.

          2. Sniglet,

            Thank you! Well at least you are here, even if you don’t talk about it. We are learning every day. I see Hg’s writings with a different angle now. I cannot stop learning about the topic of narcissism and personality disorders in general. There is so much that is unknown and theoretical. Hg’s insight of the extreme spectrum helps me put all human behavior into light these days, by comparing and contrasting the “abnormal” (am I allowed to say that?) with the normal (if that even exists).

          3. That demonstrates progress, moving from the confusion through to the understanding with regard to one’s own situation and then on to having an interest in this fascinating subject from an intellectual perspective.

          4. Thank you Hg. I also think I am very near to zero impact. Stay here people and you will be free!

          5. Sniglet, that must feel very discouraging, to need years for making one small step.

            Maybe it can help to make the steps much smaller. If you need years for one step, then the steps you set as a goal are too big.

        2. Supernova

          I can only speak for myself.

          A therapist that spealizes in NPD…..please explain how one can spealize when the information they learned was and is influenced by their own perspective?

          HG provided his perspective from a diagnosis narcissistic psychopath, which answered and answers many questions of why to which an individual can use to understand their situation. Provide a therapist that can do this with out regurgitated information tainted from their perspective. Wait maybe one can now that they have read HG Tudor…..hell just visit YouTube and listen to those that if one has actually read the material HG has provided will see they are just repeating…..terms like Greater, Midranger, Leasor along with descriptions with subtle changes due to their perspective influencing the information they are repeating.

          Your comment shows ignorance and closed mindedness.

          1. HG

            My pleasure.

            What many don’t know is I have combined your perspective with my knowledge of plants, learning ways to release the traumatic “energy” left behind.

            It is and was the accuracy of your information I needed, for that I am grateful.

          2. Twilight
            You’re growing some really mellow cannabis named Tudorite Tobaccy?

          3. Narc Angel

            Ha ha Tudorite Tobaccy, ah I am brewing something much older…..and worthy of the title Tudorite.

          4. Twilight don’t forget me when you start passing out samples!! 😘🙃

          5. FM1T

            I couldn’t forget your adorablness.

            If samples become available you will be the first to know my friend.

            I do believe Renade asked about what I was speaking of, I may go into detail if HG doesn’t mind “recipes” being spoken of…..

            In reality it is what I call old medicine

            The farther we move from nature the more disconnected we become.

          6. If it’s medicine, go ahead, if it’s baking or cooking – it’s a no!

          7. HG, I believe you can also bake that “medicine…” BTW, Twilight, count me in 🙋🏼‍♀️

          8. Twilight I have a few that I use that were given to me by my Grandmother, and others that I use that are more for smoking or burning that I was taught from the village. But not many.

          9. Twilight nature is my go to for everything! Well accept of course narcissists, then it is only HG that I go to! 😉🙃

          10. Twilight not sure if my first reply went through or not? I’ve been away for a little while and could not find you or NA! Here I find you two together talking about something I surely do not want to miss out on if start handing out samples! 😘😘🙃

          11. Twilight,

            Excellent points, particularly about the others using Hg’s terms.

          12. Jenna

            It is accurate information and should be used and is used due to it accuracies.
            Those who are jealous/envious can not handle not being in the spotlight for providing will spread hate or use the information as theirs.

            An empathetic person who is still full of anger and blinded by it will only see HG as a narcissist and a lier, truth thou can stand alone and regardless of what HG is his work is truth of the perspective and can stand alone.

          13. Twilight,

            That’s right! It’s nice to see all of us immediately giving our testimonials when someone comes on board with incorrect statements. We are all joined that way and it feels like home to me.

          14. Jenna, I’m very happy to see you back here and read you’re doing well.

          15. SwwetestPerfection,

            Thank you for your kind words. I can’t stay away from this wonderful place!

          16. I’ve just read your comment about ‘Narc Botany’. I am fascinated to learn more. I’m a Priestess and whilst I am not a contagion, I have contagion strands.

            Are you able to tell us a little more?

          17. Renarde

            I may address this at some point.

            I have repeatedly stated nature provides everything we need.

            Narcissistic abuse begins for many of us at birth. This “energy” is layered upon us so we “fit” in instead of developing our own sense of “true” selves. Even empathic/empathetic people hide their true self or have no clue to who they are. Henceforth another why they continue to repeat the cycle and develop the addiction to the narcissist.

            The three other schools catch glimpses of what I “see” and “feel” via the contagion strain. I believe they can hone this ability yet it will take stripping away that which another placed upon them and created as a core belief.

            Smell is the quickest and in many instances the only way to break an energy that has become blocked. One can rationalize and learn many ways yet never truly be free if they never heal the core wound.

          18. Twilight would you ever consider starting your own blog teaching and mentoring on this subject? I know I have so much to learn and understand. Learning from you would be quite an honor! 🐺😘

          19. Twilight,

            I so agree with your concept of what I call the authentic self (so as not to be confused with the psychological premise of true/false self). It is so true that our authentic self development is interrupted or thwarted by the influence of others during our formative years (and onward if not rejected).

            I had to reject all of the criticism and shaming I heard growing up when I would be kind to others aka “too nice”, or breach the facade, or stand strong in my beliefs instead of the Ns, or be empathetic aka “too sensitive”, or pursue an interest not in alignment with the N parent. Ironically, I still have compassion and feel sorry for the N because they were a victim in their childhood.

            As a kid I felt guilty for being me. As an adult, I am very happy in my own skin and so very grateful for everything in life. I adore nature and animals and spend as much time with both as possible–it is such a blessing and feels renewing, but I never realized the renewal is literal. I agree with your statement, “The farther we move from nature the more disconnected we become.”

            Thank you, Twilight, I really appreciate your insights.

          20. FYC I so understand not feeling comfortable in your own skin. I still am learning to come to grips with that. I have been called to sensitive and to emotional my whole life, to a point where I thought being emotional was a bad thing! One of my narcs called me sentimental as a nickname. I was so happy to read that you find being with nature and animals healing as well. You truly are amazing! 😘🙃

          21. Yes, please do if you can. I know up thread that you mentioned recipes? I’d really see them (as well all would, I expect)

          22. Renarde

            I may in time, in reality I want to discuss an issue in regards with discussing “recipes” here with HG privately.

            I am curious thou what kind of priestess are you? I know you have meantion it numerous times here.

          23. Hey Twilight. I’m a Pagan Priestess. I knew thought that when I went down this path that it would have profound implications (good) for me in the future regarding NPD. In fact my other kink side also did exactly the same thing in albeit a different way.

            So I tend to see my own work with understanding NPD as the intersection between the physical (kink) and the spiritual, with NPD slap bang in the middle – the bridge between the two and again, it gives me pause for thought in that I have actively chosen to pursure all three paths and how closely related.

            At a grassroots level in paganism; well it’s chock full of empaths. It always surprises me therefore how under-represented paganism is in terms of males. It is such a massive hunting ground. A lot of female pagans are unfortunately, terribly naive.

            In terms of kink itself, places like Fetlife are for the unweaponised empath (submissive usually) terribly terribly dangerous places indeed. Even I, sage as I am, are very careful when I interact on there.

            Yes please do share when you are ready, I’m very interested indeed.

          24. Renarde

            Thank you.

            I deal with herb, oils, frequency and such. Fire and water are two elements I use for different purposes.

            I would be interested in speaking more in-depth with you. Maybe HG would allow us to run on a different topic here. I am interested in your knowledge and what you made you chose this path and how you tie narcissism into it.

            I never chose this path, I was born to it.

          25. Oh and whilst herbs, crystals etc are not really my forte I do have a sound working knowledge so if I can help in anyway, just give me a shout..

          26. Thank you FM1T😘 I do understand. It was not a fun part of growing up, but that all changed when I left. Upper education is very liberating and that’s when everything flipped inside. I loved it. The pursuit of knowledge, the freedom to share my views, the awesome friends and people I learned so much from including a wonderful, kind mentor. It was a game changer.

            I still got tripped up by narcissists as I ventured out in the world because I was ignorant on the topic. Thanks to HG who offers us the opportunity to get an advanced degree in narc lessons, that changed too. The freedom that results is amazing. If only KTN were around in my 20s, you know, 5 years ago (lol).

            Nature is the absolute best thing in life, FM1T. Maybe one day I’ll make it to Assateague Island so I can see your gorgeous ponies.

            FM1T, you are well on your way. You are a wonderful person. I literally see you take huge strides all the time! You are going to shine bright from here on, and if any darkness crosses your path again it does not stand a chance!☀️😎

        3. Supernova, that simply goes against the experience of many here, and against what HG writes.

        4. Supernova
          Sorry, people here are too intelligent to heed the false warning of someone who has read so little of the work here that they have named themselves with a term (coined here) to describe an event and not a person or type of empath. To start with, get your facts straight, learn to use some punctuation, and perhaps offer some reasoning behind what you assert if you hope to attain any credibility. Currently you are at zero.

        5. Supernova, What are you doing here? Your false and ridiculous comment is diametrically opposed to the truth. HG offers more accurate truth and immediately actionable support than any therapist, and does so largely for free!

          Rockgirl, you are fortunate to have found the perfect place to find truthful answers and superb counsel. I’m so sorry you are going through this, but HG has helped so many of us see clearly and become empowered, and most importantly, narcissist free. His insight and specific, accurate knowledge is life-changing and healing. Ti auguro una guarigione e un futuro felice.

          1. You are most welcome, HG, as you earn our praise. Your advice is second to none, and you are consistently gracious even in the face of false accusations and other vitriolic displays. No one here is a blind follower, and most come here, as I did, after a qualified therapist offered no actionable assistance.

            It is to your credit you publish such comments, and in so doing expose unfortunate prejudice and myopic viewpoints.

          2. Indeed FYC. It is very rare for a comment to be removed, I allow nearly all comments through – good or bad. In a very, very rare minority of instances I impose a blanket ban when a person has been given multiple opportunities to behave but fails to do so and their continued presence is an annoyance to readers and disrupts the constructive atmosphere of this place. I see no reason to waste my time dealing with such individuals after having given them multiple opportunities to behave.

          3. HG
            Yeah, what’s going on around here? I haven’t been invited to go fuck myself in at least a couple of weeks. Well…not in print anyway.

            Seriously though, I appreciate your patience in moderating and letting us see it all so that we learn, and can decide for ourselves the motive of those few who have nothing to offer but unsubstantiated and pathetic word vomit (that we can now more easily and readily identify thanks to your teaching). I believe the blog has earned the reputation of shutting down trolls hard and fast as the instances seem to be getting fewer and further between despite the numbers of hits and subscribers ever climbing. A testament to both the quality of information and interactions here.

          4. Good point NarcAngel and I know who this individual is. The individual concerned is using my work and my terms ( but repeatedly gets them wrong and is spreading misinformation) on a YouTube channel and is apparently a licensed therapist or such like. Oh dear. One of my loyal readers pointed out that she was using my material incorrectly and without permission which resulted in that comment being removed (clearly since it was correct) and then this individual popped up on the blog with that erroneous and pathetic comment (and as I type this has not been brave enough to address my rebuttal and the comments of my sensible readers – which again speaks volumes). This individual will be hearing from me further.

          5. 😱 I can’t believe this! I mean I can but wth?! Nobody dare do that to Hg Tudor. She’s wandering into dangerous territory.

          6. HG, You have far greater tolerance than most. I can certainly attest to the truth of your lack of censorship. I used to feel vitriolic comments were harmful to those of us here with a genuine desire to learn and move forward. Over time I realized your approach is wise. Exposing prejudice and false claims reminds us all of exactly how much misinformation and disinformation is perpetuated in this space. It stands in stark contrast to the obvious and unimpeachable truth you offer and the gratitude that naturally follows.

          7. HG, It certainly was kind of her to provide a perfect example of a MRN making a lame attempt to first ride your coattails while not giving credit, then spinelessly slither in here in an equally lame attempt to discredit you, and cowardly disappear.

            NA, I do so enjoy your flare for creative expression. “Word vomit” cracked me up🤣

          8. HG, it is so strange to me that someone would use your terms and clearly admire what you do, to the point of using one of your terms as a username on your blog, and then troll you with hatred trying to sway your readers away. I mean the paradox of it. I don’t know why it should confuse me since narcs are usually contradictory precisely in that way and I’ve seen subtler versions of it, but still, it seems like an especially obvious contradiction.

          9. It is obvious although not to the perpetrator of this behaviour which tells you that they are a particular type of person and evidently not a very bright one.

        6. Supernova, I tried to speak with a therapist for a while and honestly, I got tired of being blamed for the narc’s personality disorder. Here I have found support from people who have gone through the same experiences, I have felt validated by other women who understand me, and I have discovered I am an Empath which explains a lot of my life choices and my personality, and which has also empowered me. HG provides factual information, so accurate so that when I translate his articles to my non-English speaking friends who I suspect have met a narcissist, they cannot believe how much HG nails the description of the situations, the expressions used by the narc, the empath’s feelings, and the situations of abuse. If you don’t find this place comfortable or if this is not your thing, I suggest that you find a therapist instead. I will continue to learn from him because the only reason I have been able to go NC steadily for almost 10 months is that I was lucky to encounter Tudor’s work. Without that, I would have surely fallen into the narc’s seduction cycle again.

          1. Thank you, FYC! It’s not easy because we are physically very close, but I know his work schedule and his favorite places to hang out and avoid them like the plague. I have also been traveling a lot too. And every time I feel remotely sad or feel like talking to him, I remind myself that right now I have the upper hand. I’m a Taurus, I’m stubborn and resilient AF. If I decide on something there’s no way back. GOSO!

        7. Supernova
          The majority of therapists who specialize in NPD are absolutely clueless and they charge exorbitant rates for their ignorant and useless advice causing more harm than good. Brilliant!

          Just curious, how long have you been reading the articles and comments on narcsite?

          1. Hello K, HG and others:

            HG I saw Supernova’s comment last night and rolled my eyes and thought, ‘Another troll.’

            I didn’t bother with it because the statements are not founded in anything and border on paranoia.

            HG, I am curious, do comments as those annoy you/fluster you? Or do you just laugh and see it as an opportunity to set the record straight.

            The reason I ask is that every so often I have had a troll throw similar-minded comments towards me (elsewhere, not here), twisting my words (example: so you think people should still watch Polanski films, so therefore you support child rapists!) or other such nonsense.

            One of the extra credits I have earned from your blog is establishing a sense of objectiveness and calmness to dummies who message me and I now try to view them as you would–as fuel who are in seek of my attention and are not worth my emotional energy. I do this rather than reacting.

          2. It gives me an opportunity to :-

            1. Demonstrate the flimsiness of the intellect behind such a comment;
            2. The opportunity to correct inaccuracy; and
            3. To demonstrate different dynamics.

            They neither annoy nor fluster me.

          3. Hi Bibi,
            I suspect that Supernova hasn’t read many of the comments or articles here and hasn’t even considered that many people don’t have access to good quality affordable medical care. Therapists who specialize in NPD are very expensive where I live.

            I got all my answers and phenomenal support here gratis 24/7. Good luck finding that elsewhere.

          4. I agree, K. Since reading HG I feel I’ve been given an omniscient understanding superpower. When something is put into a real world context as HG’s work does, it offers up that much more clarity.

            Most psychologists will just give nebulous advice b/c they just don’t have the understanding of it as someone who is as self-aware as HG.

            When I went no-contact from the Mid Ranger, I still thought I was the problem in the sense that I was ‘obsessed’ and ‘needy.’

            I knew he was dishonest and passive aggressive but I thought that maybe I had done something to cause him to behave that way since he seemed to get along better with everyone but me.

            It wasn’t until learning what he was that gave me that clarity. I personally don’t think one can fix the problem without knowing what they were dealing with. Therapists focus mostly on ‘trying to fix you,’ which is fine, that is, once you KNOW what you were dealt.

            These ‘obsessions’ and ‘neediness’ did not occur on their own.

          5. Bibi
            The information here is unparalleled. Every narcissistic T is crossed and every narcissistic I is dotted and the information and advice on narcsite is neither esoteric nor quixotic. Anyone can understand and apply HG’s work. The reader doesn’t need a psychology degree to translate some erudite-psychobabble-word-salad because HG translates it so perfectly for us.

            Psychologists routinely dole out meds, useless and, sometimes, dangerous advice because of their utter cluelessness and I blame the APA for this feckless and irresponsible behaviour. It is stunning when you think about it. It’s as if the Three Stooges are running the show.

            None of us are/were obsessed or needy; we just had no idea what we were up against Bibi, until we found narcsite and got the answers, clarity and understanding that we so desperately needed in order to GOSO.

            We were needy for the truth. that’s all and the truth is here.

            Albert Einstein – If you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough.

          6. Also to follow up, HG you mentioned a YT channel using some of your work without attributing. I also found a channel doing this and I was going to send it to you but then she did mention you in another post/video. If it is the same person we are thinking, it is a woman who wears a shit-ton of makeup and false eye-lashes, talking about supernovas and super empaths, blah blah.

            I can send you that link if this sounds like someone different from whom you are thinking. Maybe you have more than one?

          7. “The reader doesn’t need a psychology degree to translate some erudite-psychobabble-word-salad because HG translates it so perfectly for us.”

            Wonderfully stated, K.

            And as for the YT impostor–can I also mention the really long acrylic pink fingernails? I wouldn’t be able to wash my hair with that shit.

          8. Thank you, Bibi!
            When I saw her, I immediately thought: MMRN somatic. Those long acrylic nails remind me of talons. Texting must be a bitch.

        8. Supernova, HG is the only one after years of being in emotional darkness and confusion that has helped me in more ways then any specialist could ever do! Those so called specialists had only made my life worse! If you want to climb out of the emotional darkness and confusion then I suggest you read and listen to HG! There is no one that can come close to the knowledge and understanding in the the world that HG has! If not then perhaps you you stay with your so called specialists and leave us alone!

        9. Supernova, after my last hurrah with the Narcissist who damn near destroyed my life, I found HG Tudor and he’s the only one on this planet who saved me. Ever since then (nearly 4 years now), I’ve been referring everyone I can get through to, to give him a chance. However, I have also told everyone that they have to have an open mind and be clear of denial. Clearly you’re not ready to hear the truth, nor are you ready to give anyone advice about corresponding with him. Until you’re truly ready to be F.R.E.E., you will continue to stay in your own emotional darkness and confusion. I wish you luck because you’re going to need it as long as you’re not willing to have an open mind.

          1. Thank you BH. I will be surprised if we hear anything further from ‘Supernova’ as one of my loyal readers has relayed some information to me which may well explain the unsubstantiated nature of the comment and the real motivation behind it.

          2. Skulduggery and monkey business; there is never a dull moment on narcsite!

        10. Supernova,

          After learning from HG’s works I don’t even need therapy anymore. No emotional darkness and confusion for me; only enlightenment, understanding of what happened to me and why those people acted that way are what I got from here. Truth sets us free and I found truth here.

          Also, he says that the best course of action is No Contact, Get Out Stay Out, how is that going to allow any abuse if we have no contact with the abuser? What you’re saying doesn’t make any sense.

          1. I second that. Therapy is/was useless. I can’t believe the plethora of nonsense thrown my way under the umbrella of “therapy.” The mental health community is just as culpable for people killing themselves at times as they are lauded when they do get it right. It’s not intentional—it’s just because they don’t often know what they are seeing. I was never suicidal—but was in deplorable condition.

          2. Claire, I have heard so many horror stories about incompetent therapists. I actually think that it’s safer to read here at our own pace than to have a therapist direct our healing. Therapists are also just people who are limited to the perceptions provided to them by their own experiences. Here in the blog, HG relayed info on the different types of narcissists that each of us may have been entangled with and each commenters also provide various perspectives and experiences that we can relate to.

        11. There are few of those who comment here that actively seek HGs attention and like bantering with him. The vast majority of us do like to keep interacting with him to a minimum. And there are probably many more who only read, never comment.
          We are all aware, and he made it quite clear, that he is a narcissist.

          Yet, we’re all here. Because it fits with our experiences. Because it makes sense. Because it’s logic. Because we finally understand. Because, eventually, it really helps us.

          I don’t feel abused. I feel schooled, and sometimes I don’t like it, I’m proud too… But I’m no fool. When I see valuable teaching, I don’t care anymore. I learn! And there’s nothing more valuable for me right now than ruling my own emotions and my interactions with people. And not only valuable, but also a lot of fun sometimes…

          There might come a time when I won’t need this place anymore. There will be no guilt, no hard feelings, I’ll just leave. GOSO is what he preaches, I’ll do it without looking back.

          Thank you, Supernova. There are some old and gold comments on this post which I probably wouldn’t have found without your intervention.

        12. Supernova

          Reading your comment, I think that this not your site. Abuse??? Where??? I only see help, education, understanding, protection and freedom in HG’s work. Don’t fool with this word. Abuse is what all of us sadly have suffered in silence until finding HG and each of our abuse situations deserves the deepest respect.

          Therapist??? Although mine is good and raised the Narcissism issue regarding my ex-N, he cannot help because he is neither a N or a victim. Only HG can do it for us and largely for free. You can of course book a private consultation but his articles in this blog and his audios are precious tools available to all of us who want to heal and find a way out of the miserable world of confusion and pain where we live or have lived due to the N in our lives. HG’s accurate insight is the best therapy and this group that he promotes is the only place where I do not feel alone in my pain, where I find understanding and respect.

          Darkness and confusion???? No, don’t be myopic. Here you only find enlightening and understanding in a direct, intelligent, illustrative and accurate way, and also HG’s sense of humor when he deems it is appropriate in the context of his education.

          If you do not like or understand this blog no one obliges you to be here.

          1. Thanks to you, HG! This person’s comment is so unfair to both of us. It attacks you and underestimates us. It speaks for itself and even more if he/she is a licensed therapist.

        13. I’m going to mirror the comments of many here and point out that your observation lacks substance. The number of people who have demonstrated how much this man has helped them far outweighs your individual comment, and these statistics alone should indicate how invalid your remark is.

          I get that perhaps you’re in a place right now with your grieving process that you want to hate all people who fit into this category of disorder, but you need to avoid making sweeping generalizations like this, because it is not helpful to you in any way, and it just makes you a target for more abuse (and not just by narcissists or sociopaths).

          For what it’s worth, I’ve found that a combination of therapists, life coaches, and accounts by narcissists and sociopaths have all been valuable in my reflective process of coming to terms of how I’ve spent a good chunk of my life with someone who fits into this classification of disorders. I literally listened to HG’s podcasts every morning on my way into work for months as my ‘daily dose’ of reality checks in the early days of ‘no contact’. I can say with certainty that these snippets into a mindset that I had a really hard time wrapping my head around is what allowed me to maintain ‘no contact’, and at least come to an understanding of sorts of what drives people like this (thanks for those HG).

          Good luck in your journey, whatever that may be.

        14. Hg is amazing. and his work is brilliance.
          So great you even choose to use His term Supernova.
          If by any chance you got it from the false eyelash yt woman then you should beware because she is a fraud stealing Hg work
          I commented on her channel about taking his work and guess what it was removed.

          1. Kiki that was so cute. The fake eyelashes woman hahaha. And nails, and lips, and hair extensions… I saw her by curiosity but tbh didn’t pay attention to anything she was saying. Too many visual distractions. But I remember that all she was saying she was actually reading directly from her computer screen!

          2. Kiki
            Ha ha ha….your comment was either Challenge fuel or wounding and she showed you! She silenced you by removing your comment!

            Indicative of her sense of superiority, need for control and to draw thought fuel.

  5. Hello fellow Board Members!

    I have returned from my long journey. I am now happily divorced from my narcopath. Eight month anniversary today. I went super nova mode back in September 2017, and things got really dark. I was a machine of destruction, nothing mattered, not even food, or sleep. Until I nailed that narcopath to the wall I wasn’t concerned with anything else. He was mine and he was going down.

    When I returned from my three state hideout escapades (done in an effort to thwart private detectives), I returned to my mothers house for awhile, she gasped and said I was guant. Hadn’t noticed, but yes I was, had raccoon eyes as well. Didn’t matter I was alive and the divorce hearing was a month away (and the reason for my return).

    The one weird thing I wanted to mention is while in this state pretty much everything I wrote rhymed. It has been strange to read my journals, its like I was possessed by a poet. Has anyone heard of this phenomenon?

    1. Yes, I remember once, years ago, when my daughter ran away for three days. I knew where she was the entire time – with a good friend, but I was still completely heartbroken. During that time, I started writing poems to each of my kids about what they meant to me. I have never written in my life, yet it was all I knew to do to get through that difficult time. Once it was all over, I went back and read them and I felt the exact same way; my words had been formed by a higher power than me. I knew immediately that I was being watched over and helped. I’m so happy you’re where you are now! It’s is the longest, hardest, most painful journey to get through, but you did it, and you need to be proud of you. I know I am am proud of you! I’ve been through it with a Narc too (more than one) and that’s how I was guided, once again, by God. He led me to HG’s site. I’ve never been more clear in my life than I am now, since coming across this blog. Keep up the great work you’re doing for yourself. It does pay off! I’m alone now in my life and I have never been happier. I’m finally at peace and you will be too, no matter what you choose to do! 🙏😊💕

    2. No I haven’t and it’s fascinating. I journal too and reading those back it is really intriguing to see the difference n my mental state. It all makes sense but there is something else there too.

  6. Is it possible that this method, played to the end, could kill the beast(per se—causing a catalyst, where the narc experiences unconditional love and transitions into union with his soul?

  7. The comment “The Greater however will not leave matters there. A note will be made to rejoin battle in due course and bring the Super Empath to heel.” made me laugh. He definitely approaches me with caution. I love him, but he lives the game, regardless of who is “winning”.

  8. Dear Narc,

    Thank you so much for this information. I have determined that I have a bipolar roommate, (not a narc) and that I am a super empath. I am going to try to get her some help real quick – because they say lithium helps such individuals.

    Recently I said enough is enough and I started attacking her full force – police reports, delayed responses to her texts and phone calls, leaving her out in the street when she was telling me “I have nowhere to go”.

    Anyway, if you believe in karma, this is all just a game and lessons that we want to teach ourselves. (i.e. no hard feelings)

    Thanks again!

    btw, I love a challenge as well, perhaps that is one of my narc qualities!

    1. Whoah whoah there!?!!

      You started attacking a vulnerable woman with a mental disorder and then left her homeless? Did I just READ that?

      Bipolar is usually treated with anti-pschs BTW, Lithium is Schizophrenia.

      Kicking a woman onto the streets is not karma.

      I want to write more but I’m in danger of a SN. I shall wait until the urge subsides.

  9. Thanks HG for this information. I never felt like a copy dependent as I’m very much an independent person .I was actually searching for why my exN who is a mid ranger hasn’t tried to hoover after our last break up. I’m not saying that I’m a supernova but I feel my own explosion at his disgusting behaviour and the fact I outed him has caused his retreat. For now !!! He never liked the fact I would question his actions. But he did like my forgiving nature when he played the victim card. Enough is enough and I know longer feel sorry for him.
    Thank you again. HG for your insight into this world it has helped me understand and heal.

  10. I am definitely a supernova empath. My ex narc used to say I was too smart and that I “used my smarts for bad” because I had figured him out. He also alluded to the fact that he’s never met someone who could match him and counter him word for word which he found endlessly frustrating.
    He also would get upset when I’d listen to psychology or relationship podcasts or would educate myself by reading because I’d become inquisitive about his behavioral patterns… I’d never experienced anything like this and was continually baffled at his odd behavior.
    At first I thought he had avoidant personality disorder then I discovered he was secretly and alcoholic… Which can bring about Narcissistic tendencies so I denied the fact that he was actually NPD for a very long time. Once I did more studying… Because let’s face it… A narc’s partner has a lot of time on their hands while they’re out being shady doing God knows what… I discovered he and his mother were both incurable, enmeshed, full-blown pathologically dysfunctional NARCISSISTS. Without a doubt. I could have written a damned book based on the last six years living within that hell. Truly a nightmare. I shudder now to think that was my life or that I thought he’d ever change. He disgusts me… Seriously cannot even fathom what I saw in that fatheaded mix between Jay Leno and Shrek. And his beastly, tyrant mother… She was the queen of horrifyingly ugly behavior from a 63 year old woman. So much plastic surgery … And she was hugely obese… Though she didn’t think to fix the fat and focused on her face and boobs and her private area. SO WEIRD and delusional… She’d insult every beautiful woman, just rip them to shreds… And I was like… “have you looked in the mirror”? 😒
    I’m not even mean like that but who she was as a person made her so, SO ugly in my eyes. She basically crippled her son, the selfish B!
    I also think narcissism is highly ingrained in their culture… They were Persian (Iranian) and had zero respect for American tradition or values and I’m Caucasian. It never was going to work and I will never date another middle – easterner as every experience I’ve had with them has been similar. I don’t care if that makes me too selective in anyone’s eyes. It’s my personal preference…unfortunately, I find the men very attractive and they seem to be attracted to me as well… Go figure.
    But back to the ex…
    I would send his sorry ass cowering out of the room when I’d confront him or catch him in blatant lies, I’d finally gotten to the point where I couldn’t deny this crap anymore… he’d hide in the bathroom or put his fingers in his ears and hum or sing like a damned child.
    I’ve never seen a 41 year-old grown man who regress into a four year old state. That was… Interesting. He refused to ever resolve anything even at the expense of upsetting me continually. I think he thrived in conflict… Truly. I’ve never understood why someone wouldn’t want peace and harmony in their relationship. If they loved you like they said they did, it should be a given.
    I had to totally rewire what I thought I knew about what love was and what it wasn’t.
    Hardest lesson I ever learned.
    I’m 8 months out with no-contact since July 2017. That MF is so dead to me and I’m out here living my best life. Wish I would have done it sooner. I recently got the best paying job doing something I thought I’d never be qualified to do, making more money than the narc ex (even though he works for mommy) he blamed our break up on the fact that I wasn’t making enough money… everybody struggles… This was total BS…he was pushing me to breakup with him.
    I did. Left and never looked back 🙂
    The greatest revenge is a successful, happy life…
    Miracles DO happen. No-contact, people…
    It works. ❤️

      1. If narc means empowered empath Survivor to you then yes. Perhaps your reading comprehension skills could use some improvement.:)

    1. Great post msbojangles! Glad you left and your life is much happier and healthier 🤗
      I do see how a narc mother can ruin a son. My hubby is proof. Its odd bc he really is an incredible man in so many ways. Shes taught him to be courteous and reliable. What im learning thru here is the damage shes done. Hes definitely not a narcissist but he has troubles communicating and shuts down in a lot of ways. Shes emotionally abused him when hes not done what shes expected and in ways i think hes passive aggressive bc of this. There may be a side of him that he shuts down when he feels a woman is trying to control him. Ive been talking to him a lot about narcissism and he sees it in his mother but im not sure if he can see how its damaged him.
      Narc mothers cause terrible damage to their kids.

    2. Yo…. 95% we dated the same person.
      Persian, similar age, same obese mother…
      As soon as I read ‘persian’, I actually got chills because word per word I could’ve written this post.
      Glad you’re out. Be well. ❤️

  11. I feel like I walked a mile back to the site and cannot find the person I wanted to type to. I’ll just throw this out there:
    Not afraid of Super Nova, dark thinking, etc. However, I do NOT like being, or existing as something I am NOT. Cunning, plotting, planning, calculating, all such hard work. Life should be joyful and easy, but sometimes it’s just not. Rather than being ‘This’ or ‘That’, I would rather just be.
    Oh well. Empathic is a flawed way of being, just as Narcissistic is flawed. We are taught to admire virtue and not evil. The truth may be the two exist in a symbiotic relationship as a catalyst for change. Therefore they are equally beneficial.
    My opinion is all that was. I also don’t spend time knitting hats for “Gay Unicorns”. First of all, I can’t knit. Secondly, all the unicorns I meet are Bi.
    Thanks people

    1. Empathic is not being flawed. I’m proud of being an Empath. Now wtf is going on today with everyone saying they returned from supernova mode?

      1. Sweetest Perfection
        Ha ha ha…I am in “regular” empath mode today, although I did have a cranky moment after reading Supernova’s comment this morning. Once the ET passed, I commented.

        1. K, for a moment this morning I felt a little bit excluded in that everyone seems to be able to super materialize into something I don’t even understand. I kept reading people saying things like I went into supernova and did this and I went supernova and blah blah. I’m not gonna lie: I wanna go supernova too 😂💆🏼‍♀️

          1. Sweetest Perfection
            Ha ha ha….I know what you mean. It can get a little confusing and people may think they have experienced a Supernova (an event) when they haven’t.

            While you are on this thread use the shortcut: Control+F/Command+F (mac), keyword: HG Tudor and read his explanations about the Supernova event. That may help you understand it better.

            14. I just want to fit in.- 15 Ways to Spot a Narcissist (Empath).

          2. I interpret these classifications as potential places people can go on the “spectrum”, and I also believe that spectrum can change (outside influences such as therapy work, different life experiences, etc.). I am not sure whether one can be classified as “only this” or “only that”.

            I view “Supernova” as an event where a person has sustained so much abuse that it pushes them beyond their breaking point, and while narcissistic defences may be used as H.G. points out, I also feel this may be fuelled by the natural rage that accompanies fear and anxiety. These are people who are in extreme states of “fight or flight”. They may have physical signs of trauma as well, such as extreme weight and/or hair loss, a hollow look with dark circles in their faces, etc.

            We are all equipped with the ability to go into fight or flight mode when presented with danger. The thing with narcissistic abuse is that I feel this too is something that can be on a “spectrum”, in terms of how the target/victim feels that their sense of security and safety is threatened. For example, it may be easier for a person to escape from an abusive blood relation than it is to escape from a spouse whom you are not only enmeshed with, but also share young children with (and fear for their safety as well).

            In that vein, I think every abuse victim has potential to go Supernova but it depends on whether escape from danger is achieved with ease or not.

            I also think that abuse victims can be “codependent” for a time, particularly when they haven’t been awakened to their situation.

            I really do like H.G.’s classification systems, but I think people may interpret these too much as fact when there needs to bee a little room for interpretation and flexibility because human beings can’t be oversimplified into absolutes, at least not for sustained periods of time. There are outside influences that can change our states happening all around us, all of the time.

  12. SHANNA, Thank you for your very kind words. I have a facebook page called the Convalescent Codependent that is a blog about my personal journey if you are interested. I started writing the blog to help me with my own self healing. I was inspired by HG, and wanted to write about being a codependent, in particular, in my relationships. I have been writing pretty regularly for over a year now, and I truly believe for myself it has helped me cope and grow in my personal development in very profound and tremendous ways. I have thought about publishing these blogs in the future, I am currently working as a ghost writer, a memoir for a very inspiring story I am excited to help get out into the world. There are things I have been able to retrain my brain, I thought were going to be impossible for me to do. I still find myself dealing with the healing process, I don’t know if this self work will ever truly be completed, I have days where I am convinced the trauma that I have experienced since about age 3 may mean I will need to continue to be “recovering” for the rest of my life, just to protect myself from going back to old habits of comfort and self denial. Honestly your comment could not have come to me at a better time. There are days when my heart just hurts so bad, and I wonder if I have made the progress I thought, or if my words are reaching and touching others, inspiring and helping others to feel less alone. I too still need that reminder, that I am not alone, so thank you from the deepest part of my, sometimes very fragile, soul!

  13. This is awesome, finally an explanation. I giggled all the way through this article, it brought me entertainment and education. For so long I wondered why when push came to shove I acted with as much guard and manipulation as he did but never lost my empathic traits. I was with him 15 years, knew every fear, button, lever, dance. I thought this was fantastic and a great explanation of why the discard occurs after they get scared of you. I also secured a management position, bought a country property for my horses, lost 27 kgs and became a different fit person the way I was prior to meeting him. All in 18 months, I didn’t lay down. Thanks 10/10

  14. I think my child may be a super empath. I am very strong willed but I can see how I played into my narcs hands. My daughter however was his best friend until the minute he upset me, then it was like a switch, she would belittle him to me in his presence, mildly remarking “are you still bothering with him” as she strolled through the kitchen to get a drink. He would be furious, shouting at her about “did she know what her mother had done”. She just looked at him, “you’re pathetic”. No fear at all. He would scream back at her, still she would just stare at him, “pathetic” would be the word that followed. He was furious and would turn back to attacking me. When I found out he was cheating she turned to me and calmly said “throw his stuff in the bin mum, he doesn’t get away with this”. She is 11 and the most amazing kid. I would like to point out that this is a child who normally spends her days sending out messages of goodwill, reminding everyone of what a good job they are doing etc. When I spoke to his new primary source I found out that there had been many a conversation about my daughter and how he couldn’t understand why she just didn’t like him. The funny thing is that she very much liked him but she just didn’t engage in his drama and had no fear of pointing out his faults in a very matter of fact way. Clearly her refusal to fuel him caused insult and for that I will be forever grateful to her!

    1. Your daughter is a good Egg there. My daughter is the same age and very sure of herself and confident with her beliefs.
      You did a good job there!! One silver lining that our girls won’t fall for the same illusions we did.

    2. Hmmm… I see myself there, only difference is I dont know how they beat me down, bit I think I am kind of figuring it out. I thought my mum was the innocent one, and so I was protecting her from my dad, only to learn that my mum is a covert narc, victim narc, while my dad is pretty overt and violent.

      What a mess.

      Now I dont listen to her crap anymore. Let them do their dance. I am not Jesus and if she, an adult cannot protect herself from her husband, why should I be the one to point out the ills? Parentification and parental alientation resulted.

      Now I consider both of them evil maniacs. They competed for their kids attention and my mom used my super empath traits for her benefit before I discovered her covert ways.

      Ain’t happenning again.

      I am not a party to that marriage. Period.

      Everybody for himself, God for us all.

  15. Wow … an interesting and well written article! That’s it! I think I may be in the Supernova mode right now… Not sure if that is a good thing, though.

    1. You will absolutely know when you are in Supernova mode and its not a good thing!

      I was educating myself on what I was dealing with (my trauma counselor informed me), I was in denial, was busy behind the scenes planning for a divorce (and you better plan) and then an atrocious event happened while on vacation that triggered the switch. For the first time in a two year marriage (and four not married), I saw my narcopaths real face. It was evil, dark and ominous. His mask was completely off, I was staring into the eyes of a demon.

      I snapped, it wasn’t planned, it just happened. I actually slapped him twice, or rather the demon (I’ve never laid a hand on anyone). It took about 10-months before I returned to normal. It’s a horrible scary dark state to be in. I endured massive amounts of mental torture and dozens of betrayals to get me to that point. I wasn’t going to swallow anymore of that demon creatures poison.

  16. Twilight, I think that makes sense. I have moments where I remember and feel how it was when thing were open between us. I still feel that space in me because it was there long before he started his lovebombing tricks with me. He thought he was so omnipotent, that he caused all my feelings but he was wrong. I had feelings for him well before he started his games. But once I saw what was underneath his mask, I stopped feeling safe. So I would feel soft, receptive and there would be a moment or two where he would reciprocate but inevitably, the events that had happened (the devalues, switching, abuse, triagulation, etc) would rear up to remind me he is not a safe person and Dragon would come out.

    I wonder if the reason I always keep feeling “him” isn’t him per se, but the negativity he left feels like he is sending me energy but he’s not, he just LEFT this energy. I mirrored it in my way to fight back. So if I let the negativity go, so will he be gone, too?

  17. This. Is. The BEST. Yes. I was an Empathic Supernova. Yes, he taught me to play games. I was a very quick learner once someone tipped me on to what is going on. Yes, I turned the tables. Yes, the empath in me approached him in love cause I still felt that, but then he took that as an opening to Smash me hard and all it did was LIGHT up my fury and I counter attacked. To the point he told me that I cause all this destruction while he held himself just above me. It became a blazingly destructive battle of wills. We fought HARD. When it first started, I used to think that we might resolve it by having crazy sex. Then I thought, if we were close to each other in geography, we would fight physically.

    This explains it ALL. How I started to channel him. But how unnatural it all was. I have wondered about my narcissism but this explains it FULLY. How I used who he was against himself. I think he was often exhausted by me and finally, wanted to retreat. But he couldn’t. Some part of him never could retreat from me. I still feel him even now, being the empath that I am. But I will never, ever give him an inch of all the ground I finally took from him. I took it ALL back in the end.

    But I am really tired HG. I feel exhausted. I feel so, so exhausted. An exhaustion like none other. And I am TIRED that I still feel him. He needs to stop sending out his energy. This is never, ever going to end. The only way it will ever end is if I submit to him and I never, ever will. Never. Its just not going to happen. So now I know why I must shut down all avenues for him to contact me. He is never going to forgive me for beating him this way. Never.

    How can I stop feeling so exhausted? I literally at night, curl up in a tiny ball and just sleep. Sleep and sleep and sleep in front of my fire. In a worn out, exhausted sleep. My panic is gone, my fear, everything was replaced by one massive dragon breathing Narc attack on him. Its taking an extreme amount of energy to keep those narc traits at the front to keep all my empath traits down. I am NOT ready to let them go just yet. I am not safe yet.

    Does my exhaustion make sense to you?

    1. Sarabella it does to me, you need to recharge and let the negative energy you are holding on to go. My guess is you took his negitive energy to fight back and never let it go made it yours. Now it is stuck instead of flowing. If you did what I think you will be exhausted.
      If you don’t mind how long sense the separation?
      HG due to Sarabelle asking you and I jumped in and gave an answer I apologize.
      Sarabelle I apologize if I seemed rude and jumped in between, not my intentions.

    2. Yes. Very much so. Ours wasn’t a long battle. I watched and waited. Withdrew gradually and then struck him hard and in the most hurtful way possible. Completely uncharacteristic from me. Completely knocked him off balance, broadsided him. He’d thought his control was pretty solid. Thought i was kind hearted and moral. I didn’t realise he was a narcissist until afterwards and I didn’t realise this side of me either. But, yes, it has exhausted me too.

  18. Oh…, I will also add, one of the reasons that your kind can fool most empaths so easily is that well…, while empaths in general are usually quite good at reading people (and they trust their ability to do so to a fault), but…, for all of them…, they can only read that which they can understand (that is like one of the rules of empathy reads). Innocent empaths can’t read evil because they are innocent. Innocent empaths can’t read the evil of a narcissist and they trust their ability to read others to a fault, so they helplessly trust the narcissist.

    1. I find your comments intriguing. My challenge knowing that I could & did read people was not feeling anything from this mid range Narc. He was a blank slate, nothing at all good or bad. When he played the pity story of being medicated for PTSD I of course excused the lack of emtional vibration, thinking that was the cause of the numbness. Be for warned fellow empaths, modern psychological medication can block our instincts & abilities. Lessons learned the hard way.

      1. Same here. I couldn’t work him out/feel anything from him. Nothing.
        I kissed him first. Just to see .
        He looked annoyed more than anything. I think we were supposed to be in Act 1 and I’d jumped to Act 3 .

  19. I might be what you call a super empath, but…, if I am…, I wouldn’t consider my self super or anything like that. Maybe I am something else.

    What I am is an empath that grew up with two younger brothers that are both pathological narcissists. Either or both of them may also be sociopaths too. My mother is likely a cluster b too, although I really can’t figure her out.

    I don’t think that I am more good or better than a garden variety empath though.

    What you are calling super empaths may just be normal empaths that grew up with narcissists and know how to deal with them.

    What you call super nova is like a trick that I learned when I was something like four years old or so. It isn’t very hard at all. I really wouldn’t call it super anything much less super nova.

    Yeah.. empaths that grew up with narcissists likely have more narcissistic traits than ones that didn’t. But, they also are better at defending themselves against narcissists.

    1. Oh…, I forgot to mention something kind of important. I can for the most part identify your kind. It isn’t perfect, but uncannily good. One of the rules of empathy is that you can only read that which you can understand. Innocent empaths looks at someone that is 99.9% evil and .1% good and can only see the .1% good because the .1% of them that is good is the only thing they understand. I grew up with two pathological narcissist. With someone that is 99.9% evil, I can only see the evil and that is so bright that I can’t see the .1% of them that is good.

    2. I agree with you Trent, a super empath almost sounds like a super hero able to conquer the greater narcissist, however I think HG may be indulging in the super empath’s narcissistic side because he only knows narcissism. This is simply my interpretation.

    3. Trent, I don’t know if you are still there because your comment was in February, but I am very interested in your comments. My experience with a narc is with an older sibling. I think your observation that an empath supernova is a coping mechanism learned in childhood is spot on. Also how an empath may not recognize a narc because they only see the good part. I would like you to expand upon this. Also, I have registered and am looking forward to hearing HG talk at the conference

  20. Hmmmm…I really, really dislike being labelled but I recognise myself in this completely.

    If he took to long to respond to a message, I would make sure he knew I had seen his message and then deliberately not message him back for ages. If he was distant with me then I was distant with him. Little wonder I didn’t last very long!

  21. I’ve read several piece on narcissism and their relationship with empaths, but nothing has ever resonated so personally as this article has. I agree that it’s a feeling that can’t be explained when an empath is with a narcissist. Something just feels “off” and you can feel it in your very being. That there’s a deception being perpetrated and an ulterior motive at play. The “supernova” is a fascinating idea and one that I’ve personally experienced with a few narcissists, and much like you’ve written, the empathic traits are merely dimmed, not completely vanquished, and do return in time. The shocking thing about narcissists to me, before I knew they were narcissists that is, is how quickly they could move on after discarding. When I learned about narcissism, I came to accept that they weren’t truly moving on since they were never really attached in the first place. The kind words and wide smiles were snares to catch their prey. Once we as empaths see the narcissist for who they truly are, the natural connection of empathy is severed due to the realization that we’re being used in a parasitic way instead of a symbiotic way.

    1. Thank you for mentioning the “off” feeling. I had it even when he spoke to me as an acquaintance years before we dated. The normals all told me how great he was and I was just a relationship phob. I will never ignore that feeling again. Unfortunately a friend has started dating someone I recognize as a Narc. She is constantly bragging about him online & in person so I just ignore it knowing she would lose the friendship 1st because of the way they operate. Wait and help pick the pieces is all I can do. But it’s a good test that my Narc radar is working!

    2. Miro, your words are mine, as well. Thank you for commenting.

      HG, I know most of these labels are given by you, but would any of the Greater Elite/Cerebral Narcs (your label) know this about Super Empath Supernovas (again, your label)? In other words, would the GE Narc know if he’s with a SES type of person; and if so, would he be intelligent enough to know that we’re the type of people who won’t stay down for long? Does his type know they’ll never kill our souls off completely; and that, in fact, we’ll usually come back stronger?

      1. So, why do they bother hoovering then if there’s that much of a risk to being criticized and wounded?

      1. What if the ending of the empathic supernova is not caused by the greater narcissit beating the super empath or the super empath leaving by choice and free will. What if they are forced apart by an extream third party external authoritative and omnipotent government force and the empathic while in supernova mode is then forcibly detained for an extened period of two months or more? Then let back out to find the Narc? And did find and now have this strange narrative caused by a slow draw out discared again seeming brought on by forced condtions outside his and my control to a point. But has now currently put him in some kind of benavolent omnipotent Dark angel protector pulling strings behind the sceans which i come to find out about much later when told or slipped by someone. Or by those sent to me by him. And of course his somewhat constant shadowing of me. I have seen and so have some other friends. I need your advise u have a mind and opinion that could no doubt shead light on this.
        It also is important to note. That my Psyco-Narc (whom I still love and wish to have again) is a somewhat flamboyant Gay man and I was at the time and i guess still am Pansexual or Bisexual. But would have been seen as straight. We had many different stages and relationahip types over a 13 year period.
        I can continue and tell u more here. Or i can contact u threw email or prv session. I was considering this because I would appreciate and be indebted to you. For the insightful, candid and no doubt eloquently writen opinion.

  22. Can I ask HG … What if this super empath wants to stay and play/toy/manipulate the narcissist having gained full awareness of the situation (thanks HG) and is gaining mutual benefit from being in the relationship.
    Can they then manipulate ALL types of narcissists because of these best of both world traits.
    Thank you. x

    1. There is potential to manipulate all of our kind but it will not last long with a Greater because we see through it and will either fight back and make your life terrible or we will recognise there is nothing to be gained and therefore disengage.

      1. Thank you HG. One final question and I’ll leave you in peace. Promise. Xx
        What if you have ‘information’ on them (not their narcissism) but linked to their job/public persona…will the hoovering continue.
        Why not let things be and slink off secure in knowledge that their secrets are safe. Surely no fuel is worth the risk. Xxx

        1. Depends what the information is.

          Remember, we consider ourselves beyond reproach and it is only those with a higher cognitive function who can evaluate risk v reward (and even then I am told it is still skewed – but I just think that is the good doctors trying to make me climb down a peg or two) therefore often we will consider the fuel our entitlement and the supposed threat non-existent. What is of greater concern is the potential for wounding through criticism. That is what often causes us to re-consider hoovering.

      2. “Nothing to be gained”? The super empath will not remain in supernova mode permanently and eventually will begin a campaign oozing loads of fuel (there’s no fuel like super empath fuel). The Greater continues to benefit. The virus may get stronger, but so does the immune system. Is it possible the greater and the super empath continually evolve? Exciting or frightening?

  23. This explains so much! I was getting frightfully aware of traits and behaviors i didnt understand in him, the narc, and couldn’t quite get why it was drawing out the need to combat him. And it explains why he said it pushed him away. He wasn’t pushed away, he ran away and hid with his codependent fuel source, completely incapable of producing real answers for his b.s.

  24. This is exactly what I needed to read. I escaped about 2 1/2 months ago and I was starting to worry that I’ve become a narc. I can definitely relate to your description of a Supernova Empath. Thank you!!

      1. I also am a supernova via HG and I also thought I had this wicked narc behavior.I found myself pushing away my empathic traits, I found when these traits were pushed aside I could clearly see inside my sons girlfriend the narc in my life, I feel like a 300 pound weight has been removed. always knowing something was just not right. I even feel a little disgusted with myself that I had to do what I did to twist it back around back at her. She may have a feeling it was me but all the people she tri angled its next to impossible.That was the moment the weight lifted, I had to repent it was awful the manipulation I used on her. Now she wonders but has taken a stand that it was nothing she did, I feel very greatful that HG has given his expertise in this behavior that we can escape or if we cant turn the tables around on the narcs in our life ,My grandchildren are safer and one of the other children has been taken out of the home, one of the older children 17 years. Like I said I’m not proud of what I did ,
        Thank you very much HG !!!!!!!! I believe her to be the lesser.
        I will stand my ground and fight fire with fire. But I fight from a distance as no contact is in place.
        Thank you Thank you again and again !!!!!!

  25. Great article indeed, it puts many things into perspective! Thank you! But one of the people that commented (it was CC, I checked..;) about the freedom and ego that wounds and is wounded and I’m wondering what are your thoughts about it? When I was in that mess with ex-narc, I’ve tried all possible…trying to talk about stuff, fighting him back when I realised it was intentional and also I saw it as a sort of spiritual opportunity a zen practise.he..he I’ve been observing myself and him, trying to figure out how to neutralise it all but the pressure was too strong. The more I declined to react in any way, the harder he pushed …it was impossible not to feel some sort the reaction to the insults or provocations – but I could not detach from it all…I would eventually have to say or do something. I was often not insulted by his stupidities not because I thought he was right, but because I thought he was a complete emotional idiot or hurt so badly or just deranged. But there were times he just pushed and pushed to get an answer, a choice or whatever it was and it was impossible to detach from ego or whatever it is. I don’t even see what could be the alternative…what would be free person’s way to go. For me…as he kept insisting I answer or do or say something, zen was not a choice…since I couldn’t just sit there in silence.The question is therefore…how would a free person actually behave, feel, act? What are your thoughts about it? You have great insights and you come from different perspective, so maybe you know. In this world of duality, specially with your kind – it seems that one has to chose something, some way of acting, dealing with…Buddha in your heart, but on the outside it is a,b or c.

    1. If you are still in a relationship with someone who provokes you, you are not free. You cannot be free in an abusive relationship, the abuser will make sure of this, this is why it’s called abuse. Freedom is breaking the patterns your mind have been programmed to do, to discipline self to not act out of emotion. Emotions are to be celebrated, and honored, however they should not be an indicator of any truth, except that chemicals are being released. Does this make emotions less real? Absolutely not. After emotions are felt and dealt with allow the brain to do it’s work, so your mind and heart work together in a more perfect harmony. Like you I tried all reactions to no avail. I could not begin breaking chains until I left, until I had little to no contact, until I forced myself to be alone, to confront my fears. Once I was at that place my ego’s need to relent on how badly I had been treated, to cry my woes, waking to how bad it really was, how far and twisted the abuse went, the assault of my psyche and so forth, and purging the whole damn story, a long and grueling process and an obsession in its own right, replacing the obsession I had over my narc was the next phase I found myself in. This created a rut for me, I found myself in a victim hood mentality, and felt like I had hit a wall in my healing. I realized I needed to take this journey further, the one thing that has stuck out about HG’s writing, was the Narc doesn’t care about you, it is all about the Narc. Here I was, finally free from my narc and still it was all about him. That’s when I turned towards to me, and I became fascinated at the thought of how I contributed to my abuse and what created me to be attracted to my Narc in the first place. It was this process that literally busted link after link in my chains. Discovering what fed my ego, owning my wounds self inflicted or otherwise and my addiction to the dance, broke illusions, torn down walls, and everything I could understand logically but couldn’t get my feelings to understand all came together like that final piece missing in a puzzle. When that piece was put into place, I saw that no one can complete me, no will never complete me, for I am already complete and I always have been. I was captured and put in a cage and programmed to believe I was not whole, the age old lie of all time. This is where detachment happens, this is where the world, literally anyone, can touch my life, think, say and do anything towards me, and I am free from having it turn me inside out, for it has nothing to do with me and everything to do with them, and incidentally the same goes from me to others. I don’t hate my abusers, I don’t hate period. I celebrate the tragedies of life, the very breath of life is tragedy and beauty rolled into that first inhale and exhale at our very birth and at our last breath. I am not angry at God, I am not angry at my parents, or society, I am honored to have the opportunity to experience every raw and mundane moment I am blessed with, for one day I will cease to exist, and even as I am still alive at this very moment I can feel my soul mourn and wish to live forever just to exist even to exist in suffering. This is my story, and each of us have our own story, that has never been experienced exactly like the any other person on this planet, and this is what makes us unique and special, this individuality that we all share. Peace be with you, do no give up and don’t stop your quest into you.

      1. This is brilliant, CC.

        This is hopefully the journey everyone here is, or will be on.

        In the same way that CBT helps you to recognise and retrain faulty thinking in a systematic way, it would be good to have a systematic way to undergo the process that you describe you went through.

        I love the way you describe it ‘busting every link in your chains’ one by one. Very evocative.

      2. Correct. I think I am undergoing this right now. I like the statement: emotions are just evidence of chemicals being released. I’ve realised if I take a step back from the provoker of the emotions, then I can figure things out more clearly.

      3. CC

        Wow. I really love your comment. It is powerful and moving.
        Thank you so much.
        I so needed that message today.. (rough day.)
        Finding your comment today made me cry.. because the words are validating and understanding..and much more.
        I have barely any strength today and so I really appreciate that you wrote it.
        There is so much value in what you have written and it really hits home.

        Thanks a million CC..💝x

        1. Thank you Debbie. It means a lot to hear my pain and experience and sharing can reach others and help others to not feel alone. You are worthy of respect, love and protection, DO NOT EVER LET ANYONE TELL YOU ANY DIFFERENT. No matter what you have done not done, said or not said, you are a worthy being of love and light, you have all the keys inside your heart and mind, trust your voice, it will never steer you wrong. God Bless and I hope you are on a path of healing, it is a trial during the healing process, however it changes your life in way you can’ t even imagine, do the work take that risk, that risk for YOU, is worth the reward, empower you, be you, AND LOVE YOU- LOVE YOU- LOVE YOU, WHEN YOU LOVE YOURSELF, THE WORLD OPENS UP.

      4. Thank you for your reply! Yes. .i see now i had several misunderstandings and i misused some spiritual and personal concepts to get over it and to overcome it. Like belief that love and honesty does it, about what is freedom etc. I wanted to believe that being a free person/ spirit means that others dont hurt you if you don’t allow it and not tske thing personaly..but the reaction comes anyway and it is supposed to. And the fact that you dont underatand that way of functioning, it is just beyond you, doesn’t help either.

      5. This took my breath away; the wisdom contained in this one paragraph could, I am firmly convinced, teach others how to become truly free. And you said it sooooo beautifully that tears came to my eyes. Hopefull ones… You could write a record-breaking bestseller, I am sure of it! Thank you for sharing your inspiring story, CC.

  26. Great, this article seems to answer the question regarding my “status”. I’ve been following this blog for a while now and ever so often been wondering what I am. I grew up within a highly narcissistic family, my mother is (I like the denomination “matrinarc” HG, makes me laugh) from my point of view the epitome of cluster B personality disorders. It took years for me to come to terms with everything I had to watch, experience and endure as a child. As i was the only child i happened to be the “golden child”… unless I was turned into the scapegoat of course. For my late grandfather I was “sunshine”, the apple of his eye, but only I couple of years ago I’ve come to realise that he was a narcissist who reigned in terror. I knew “stories” about his malignant behaviour in his past but to me he was always kind and polite, he adored me. (The fact that I am highly intelligent and always excelled in school did help though, I must assume. As well as the fact that I am lucky in the looks department.) However, I remember that he put a lock on the telephone (B.C. Mobile Phones) and one day he told me (I was probably 5) that I could tell my grandmother that she is allowed to make a call now. I obliged and ran into the kitchen to tell her, but she declined. I could not understand it then, however, after all my research about personality disorders I now can fully grasp the dynamics at a play.
    Well, I could go on about my mother, my uncle, my grandfather and all the narcissistic dynamics at home but the reason I wanted to commment in this article is the fact that I’ve been wondering what I am. For years I’ve been asking myself that question. Am I borderline? Am I co-dependent? An empath? Bipolar? Depressed? Plain shit crazy?
    It’s been hard to distinguish since my mother kept telling me for decades that I am the crazy one. (Whenever I wasn’t the golden child).
    So, upon reading a lot about narcissism and all the other interesting disorders of the psyche (in the beginning I wanted to fix others, then I wanted to fix myself and then again fix others) and upon stumbling onto this blog I was thinking: am I a daywalker? As in the movie “Blade”? I mean, narcissists do come across as vampires sucking out bloody fuel, I am the daughter, granddaughter and niece to narcissistic vampires, does that make me one?
    Granted, I like fuel. I don’t depend on it. I like control. I am overly dramatic. But does that mean I am overly emotional? I thought I was. But then again my range of emotions seems limited sometimes. Anger and rage I feel. Burning sensations. Love, of course. But I am a woman and how does love feel anyway? Sadness and depression I feel time and time again. Happiness borderlines mania. But how could I ever learn the shades of grey of emotions within a family line this? I observed. I’ve learned. I always wanted to be an actress, mimicking emotions. Method acting. But what ate emotions? What am I? I am an empath. I will connect with anyone. I will meet a stranger and he will tell me his life story. I get attached. I want to break free. I care one minute, than I don’t. I suffer. I hate. I love. I fall hard for people with personality disorders. I want to fix them. I want them to fix me. I fail. They fail. I leave. They abandone me.
    What am I?
    Am I the narcissist?
    Am I co-dependent?
    An empath?
    Maybe, HG, you have the answer. Maybe I am the daywalker. The super-empath with floating around the traits of both the empath and the narcissist.
    I had the choice. Become them or be me. But who am I?
    I hated them. I yearned for their love. They disappointed me. I disappointed them. I fought them. I hurt them. They hurt me. I want revenge. I let them be. I ignore them. I want them to miss me. I fight them. I don’t care. It’s cease and resist.
    It’s the best of both worlds.
    It’s the worst of both worlds.
    It’s a supernova.

    1. Feels familiar. I am not a narcissist and a co-dependent never range well with me. It was also the only real word floating around in the 90’s.

      But as I started to really understand narcissism, I started to see traits in me but with a confusing exception… I feel and feel deeply. And I have empathy and a conscience.

      Last night, I cried reading some old texts with him. I want to talk to him badly. My Empathic Supernova event did its necessary thing and now the feelings are flooding back. I want to fight with him badly. I want to have access to him but we both cut ourselves off from each other. I want to dance again, truthfully. And I am really sad cause once he told me, “If you want to say hello, why not just do so, why all the drama?” I felt so exposed because he knew the incredible longing in me. But I also know he was not so stupid to know what he had done to me. And how he set me up, created the drama. And I grovel to no one for long. And because I started to get what he is and I refuse to be one of his harem. I want to be his only one, the only one when his high from tertiary supply wears off that his last thoughts at night drift to me. To me. I want him to feel the torment I feel. I called it once a Greek tragedy but it seems it was only tragic for me. For him it was only another day, only another appliance to throw out or recycle.

      So I disappointed him, he me. We wounded each other to the core. We would not leave each other alone until now. No one won. I miss him awfully and yearn something unbearable for his love that he does not feel but he was giving me something that felt something from him. Too many people were slowly being dragged into this mess but oddly and in a strange way. We never once really used those other people to turn on the other. In a subtle way, maybe we tried, but we never went that far with each other. That puzzles me. It felt like in some odd way, we were just a bit protecting the other. But this was a superbova event. He is not a greater. He won’t be back. He left a door open for me to return, but he won’t be returning. He always left a door open but I never understood why and made up my own reasons. He is not strong enough. He knows I think less of him now, I know some of his secrets. The Supernova did what it was intended to do. But now I am on the other side of it, the dust settling and the reality creeping in and I want him back. I want him to miss me. But enough is enough. Even I know that at last. I escaped and my heart hurts badly in a whole new way. “Its cease and resist.” Yes this went on too long.

      I don’t know what I am, either. I feel like an incredible mix of everything.

      1. Thank you Sarabella for sharing this a little while ago.
        I read it today and can relate to it. Really helped.

    2. I totally relate to you, I was once the golden child, but I had an interesting transformation. I was very lucky to be promoted temporarily to golden child to my mom (the suffering victim), in that way, I escaped. I think I am a superempath too. You might find it hard at the beginning of your awakening to realize that your superempathic powers are actually gifts from ‘heaven’. They are coping mechanisms that one can develop. These powers come with lots of management exercises to regulate our emotions. Mediation certainly is key.
      May you have a loving supernova….

    3. You sound like a supanova. I’m a supernova…..which of course is a double edged sword. I’ve taken on many a narc. They’re scared of me. I have been denounced by an entire narc family for my supanova behaviour. Lesser narc brother just can’t bare it when I’m around, mid ranger mother can’t believe my audacity, and my high ranger ex is starting to get the message. Its the only way to be but, is to hit back. Not in an aggressive way, but in an ‘I don’t like how you treat people kinda way’ and I’m not going to stand for it. Supa nova behaviour is only way to get a narc out of your life. You’d be surprised but; I think the narc kind of respects David against Goliath types.

      1. Someone told me she thinks my narc loves my fight. I don’t know because he has cut me off twice. its just the cycle of violence in this dynamic

    4. You’re amazingly astute HG. I’m a supernova and am honing narc skills on a greater. My my my… what a trip it’s been. We own a business together and are joined at the hip. I know he cheats, we haven’t been intimate in almost a year and I am fine with it. Lol I’m having a good time cock blocking him…I could tell you stores that would make you proud. I found out about cheating while going through chemo for breast cancer. He’s an altruistic somatic greater. Ima smoke his ass. Lol

      1. Hello Danae, thanks for your comment. A couple of observations. You cannot be a supernova, that is an event, you go supernova at certain times as a super empath, a few people make the mistake of thinking that a supernova is a school of empath, it isn’t. Also, a narcissist cannot be altruistic. That is oxymoronic as altruism is giving for no reward and we only ever give because it suits us as we are getting something from it in return. Looks like you are seizing the power though.

      2. You are a true survivor in every sense. Congrats on making it thru Chemo! So much for the vows to honor in sickness and in health.

Vent Your Spleen!

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