The Narcissistic Truths – No. 120

a-veil-of-isolation

33 thoughts on “The Narcissistic Truths – No. 120

  1. Indy says:

    ABB, indeed, it is never too late! ❄️️

    1. You are correct. I wonder what techniques you are using for internal feeding of your self esteem? I did enjoy negative fuel in my early years. Only where men were concerned. I didn’t have any respect for men or women. I was entitled and I would gladly ridicule anyone. I got in fist fights. I lied to everyone. I abused everyone. I was popular, lots of friends haughty, me first, I’m the best. All of it. I went into therapy at the advice of my lawyer. To help a case. I was 20. Once I did that other things started to come to the fore. I then realized I didn’t want to be that person. Then I became 2mpathetic. I had all Narc relationships between 19 til 33. Every 2 years or so. The first relationships narc on narc. I had always pulled out of relationship prior to discard. I did play all the games. Don’t call. Don’t text say I’d be there not show up. But, when I started being empathic I became obsessive. I did everything HG writes about an empath. I allowed them to treat me like that. But in my mind I thought I won because I broke it off first. I left them. I really didnt win. I wasted time playing games when I could have been in a healthy relationship and not using these relationships as a proxy by the hands of my abusers. I wasn’t getting back at them. I was not winning anything but a promiscuous lifestyle and hoping the next one would be the one. It’s so similar to HG. It’s scary. I had to direct the anger at the offenders not proxys. I had to pick differently. My husband is nice looking and intelligent and simply lovely. But, I didn’t think he could handle me. I thought I needed someone to control me. (Insert Cheryl Crowes are you strong enough to be my man here) Do you feel this way about men too?

  2. Indy says:

    Typos galore, apologies!!! I meant through HGs work…etc

  3. Ollie says:

    Truth. Moved to a different continent with him and i”m stuck there now, away from family.

    1. Get on a plane, boat, raft, bus, train, scooter, Rollerblades or hoverround and get back to where you once belonged….lol!

      1. Ollie says:

        I wish it was that easy. The kids are at an age they want to stay with their friends and same school, etc plus the court papers state they have to stay in a 25 mile radius from their dad, which naturally includes me as well (although technically I could go wherever I want to… just not with my kids… tsss). So I’m pretty much a prisoner in my own life (for now), but really trying to not see it that way. Getting there slowly but surely. I would have to go back to court to fight it and I just don’t have the energy at this point after just coming out of a horrendous divorce battlefield…

        1. Sorry Ollie. You could do like my father’s first wife did and just move the kids to a completely different state. In your case another country. It would take years of red tape and he would have to find you, of course this is the sociopathic side of me talking…lol What kind of order confines you to a 25 mile radius? I would have totally fought that. But I understand how someone could get tired from using all their energy on a Narcissist. Hopefully your kids will graduate soon and you can bail. Keep healing in the meantime. 🌹

          1. Ollie says:

            Aww, thanks Anna Belle for your reply. At the time I didn’t think the kids could stomach any more changes, it was complicated, so I choose to not fight it. Plus just leaving would get me into so much trouble! I know money will talk with the ex, so I might pull that alimoney payment card at a later time. Believe me, i did not roll over and play dead at that time, there was just so many other life or death pieces to the puzzle, that I ‘agreed’ to that. And now it just takes time to pick up the pieces and enjoy this new so-called ‘freedom’.
            The articles and straight forwardness from HG and all the comments from everybody really do help though. Speeds up the healing process, I might just even start dating again… 😉

  4. Shesheb says:

    Anna Belle, great advice and so true. I have been the same as you and have purchased items (car) and constantly loaned to my family. I am the one they come to for everything. Two years ago I started refusing any monetary request. They tried to make me feel guilty(actually I did feel guilty), but I did not give in to them. My sister still to this day makes comments about me “having it made”. I am by no means wealthy. I have my masters degree and a good job, but also have three children in college. So no extra $$$. I now know it’s her way of trying to get what she wants.
    I have also experienced the isolation. The narc (I refuse to say my narc) I was involved with recently constantly questioned my friendships and my family. To the point that I only had him. I believed everything he said and defended him to them. Until I finally figured all this out( thank you, HG!). My sister is the same. Hates for me to have friendships. Her most recent statement about my closest friend over Christmas was “I hope she is always around because you have ruined all your family relationships.”

    1. Shesheb,
      Thank you for the compliment. It still amazes me how much of a common thread is weaved between empathic people. Of course HG highlights the commonality between narcissistic individuals, but both of us are tied by conditional love. This leads me to believe that this type of love in the formative years coupled with abuse is what makes us both. I asked my good doctor how do you learn the concept of accepting unconditional love when someone loves you that way? He said since it is ingrained in the formative years you have to look back and try to find the small instances in your life where people, whether, friends, neighbors, teachers, relatives, etc…gave you this type of love and dwell on those examples. They may be small but if you add them up they are there and can give you something to build on. I have to keep talking and reexamining the abuse from an adult perspective too. I have viewed it as a child and not an adult. It takes alot of courage to drag that horrific treatment up but looking at it from adult perspective really makes a difference. As for your situation, I hope you can stay strong and realize you are worth more than to allow people to treat you that way.

  5. Yes. Isolated with every one of them. One moved me 2500 miles away. The others managed to do it by stripping me of friends and through making me concerned only about them. I gave up all my time thinking, waiting and trying to please them. One I was with had dealings with me at work. His lieutenant was assigned a job there. They want you obessessing over them. It is was such wasted time because I was conditionally loved and seen and had such abuse as a child, that I was drawn to men who were the same. I could have saved myself so much 0000000heartache0p p 00009999999. I regret my life wasted for the time spent thinking that was love. It’s not. They cannot love you or approve of your love. I’ve even given up my Narc parents because they cannot love me without conditions and will never give me approval. I paid off their house and car a couple years back. I felt sorry for them. I felt like I could help and they made me feel guilty because I had money. The approval lasted about a week. The pedestal came crashing down with “you only did it because you are greedy and want the house when we die”. I do not want or need their home. Yet repeatedly for months tried to make them and my Narc brother try to understand I did it out of love. Failed. I had to learn to go no contact. HG helped me with that. My good doctor tells me I need to have a relationship with them where I can relate without trying to please them or allowing their behavior to effect me. Since I can’t help but argue with them, I have went with HGs method instead. My advice is agreeable to his. Stop wasting your time on something you cannot get. Love and approval is not something a Narc possesses. They never got it themselves. You can’t give something you weren’t taught yourself.

    1. Indy says:

      ABB,
      I am sorry you were raised by narcissistic parents. So sad they view your caring as only being manipulative. I agree with you on going no contact for your own sanity. we are not obligated as grown children to maintain contact with abusive parents. In fact the healthiest thing may be to cut ties. I have seen clients do better when they cut off that manipulative and abusive tie. Sometimes people wish to resolve questions, understandably and for some people it helps. However, for others it is just constant reopening of wounds.
      Love is tricky business as so many define it differently. Ultimately as close as we can come to unconditional love the more nurturing and growth supporting it is. However, it is such a rare thing to find. All of us to some degree have conditions, boundaries, limits. So knowing how many conditions are acceptable for our definition of love is the sticky part for me. I know the purest form of love I’ve ever experienced is the love of my son and my grandson. The man that died two months ago was the closest to love I have experienced in a romantic relationship though still it was very unhealthy too…addiction is a bitch. So, like a Jody Watley, I’m looking for a new love baby, a new love, yeah yeah yeah 😉

      1. MLA - Clarece says:

        The question is now though, we will have so many boundaries and guards up, is love even possible? Especially layering in all the normal obstacles like figuring out compatibility with kids involved, exes around because of kids, professional and monetary responsibilities and now filtering signs of narcissism since we’re prone to them. Too exhausting.
        I tried dating someone for about a month around Thanksgiving. An old college friend. He actually did not seem narcissistic but my friends knew I was bored before I was.

        1. MLAC,
          It is possible but a different kind of work. I was a single parent when I met my husband. My ex was only around in the child support department. It was easier because I didn’t have to deal with him. I knew him for years. I got him to give up his parental rights. This does not mean they have to give up support. It’s never exhausting with the right person. They are easy to love. I have the most stable relationship. I don’t have to try at all. I am the one who has the problem. He teaches me. He is patient with me. He is boring in the sense that there is no chaos. Something I never lived without until him. I am learning to live without the chaos. It was harder when my son moved out in 2011. Since then it has been just us. It is a great marriage. I just have to learn how to be normal. Which apparently I am daily dealing with. You will get there too.

          1. MLA - Clarece says:

            I am very happy for you that you found your way to giving and receiving unconditional love. What a blessing to be “seen” inside and out. Keeps hope afloat!

        2. Indy says:

          MLA,
          Yeah, it will be an interesting process for me as well. A lot of internal reprogramming.

          ABB, on another post made a really helpful comment on this. Regarding her experience learning to live again but in a new way with her husband and learning how to experience love more unconditionally rather than conditionally. Sounds like she has a great therapist that is helping her reprogram. I might borrow some of her therapist recommendationS For my journey. I think what would be exceptionally helpful, if HG allows us to do it here, is to support each other when we do reenter the dating world and offer tips that help us be more healthy in developing new relationships. What do you think?
          This will be quite a new journey for me too. My defenses will be up, my walls will be up, and yet in order to experience love we have to have a level of vulnerability too. Oh the dance!

          1. MLA - Clarece says:

            I agree that ABB has had some very profound, helpful insights! Trying to find the right person without all this baggage is tricky enough, let alone finding the right person to share needing guidance in trying to reprogram yourself to have healthier boundaries and all that comes with it. At the moment, it does not seem worth pursuing for myself (on dating).

      2. Indy,
        I love Jody Watley. I think you and I must be the same age. I agree I love my son. I never felt that way toward anyone but him. My good doctor says that is how my husband feels about me. So I am supposed to look at the things he does and say internally, he did that because he loves me. I don’t have the concept of not performing for love. I thought if you get an accolade or please someone then they love you. Not true. I should not have to bend over backwards to get love. My husband doesn’t make me do anything for love. This is why I get depressed and frustrated. I feel worthless because he doesn’t give me a checklist of things I should be doing to make him happy. He just loves me as is. I don’t understand this. He must want some requirement met. The case is that no, he loves all of me. But, I believe that the performance is not real. That it is just acting in a way to please others. So I have been working on knowing that I can’t give away qualities I don’t posess. I am pretty. I am smart. I am funny. I am creative etc. I don’t just act that way to make others happy. I actually am those things. Since my self esteem comes by pleasing others, so externally, i have to try harder now to get it from inside. I have to realize I am those things without someone externally telling me I am smart funny pretty etc. I think we share that with narcissistic people. We both have self esteem issues that need to be filled. I had to be perfect. HG had to be perfect. We just used different coping mechanisms to deal with it. At first I started as sociopathic and turning narcissistic, then turned it around by becoming empathic. There were 4 people that caused this change in my twenties. So I do believe if a Narcissist wants to be different they can be. I think it’s never too late to course correct. Our talents don’t go away because our self identities change. You hear me HG?

        1. MLA - Clarece says:

          You truly have transformed into a beautiful butterfly!!

        2. Indy says:

          Graduated HS in 88? I’m guessing we are close in age!

          You sound like you ha e a wonderful therapist and I’d like be to keep this discussion going if possible as I suspect I’m on a similar journey as you regarding love. I think you are definitely spot on with regards to the similarity between empaths and narcissists having learned conditional love rules from home. I know I learned that I was lovable only if I had achievements only if I made the prettiest picture or earned the highest grade. My parents were not like HG’s in that they were blue collar and not college-educated and not wealthy. However for some reason the only time I Felt appraised was for what I could do and not what I was. I relate so much to what you say in that regard. I was never diagnosed with sociopathy, although I was no angel and high school. I challenged rules and enjoyed doing so. I was very ADHD for sure. And eventually diagnosed with significant depression which I had symptoms of since the second grade but was not recognized until adulthood. Only in my training while becoming a therapist did I learn I sought external validation rather than internal validation, the same thing as fuel. I never sought negative feel only positive. But I was addicted for sure. I like you often get bored and this will be the thing I need to watch when I jump back in the dating world. Thank you so much for sharing your journey and your wise words and I borrow some of those ideas you shared. My therapy trainers taught me over a period of a year, by not giving me praise, to learn how to internally validate. Hard as Flippin hell and it’s doable. I still haven’t learned the lesson, obviously, on how to recognize healthier romantic relationships although HD is work, my former trainers and all of you ladies here are helping me day by day. Many healing vibes to you on this beautiful weekend ❤️

          1. Aaawww u sweetie pie. I graduated h.s. in 1986. I’m 48. So we are right there.

          2. 1jaded1 says:

            1987…

          3. Home girl! I knew it!

    2. 1jaded1 says:

      ABB…yep.

    3. 1jaded1 says:

      ABB. In my circle, 40 something is the new 90 something. People keep calling it quits. I don’t expect this will scare you away, but fair warning and all. You enlighten me. Do you think your Sociopath self was a protector? From what I read of you, you give plenty and have raised a well adjusted kiddo. From what HG says, and I have to take it as face value, J is a protector and I am not an N. Just wondering if you were protecting youself since you are now an Empath.

      1. Yes sociopathic behavior was a protection. I still have a tendency to use it. I protected myself from the abuse by first becoming an abuser then being a victim. My parents would switch roles. I learned to do that. Like switches on and off. Or the wearing of masks. I did learn to be over altruistic. The narcissism is still there but under control. The catalyst for change was baby and a focus on people who were around me that had positive traits. Understanding what made them just loving with no agenda. I still have trust issues, love issues, intimacy problems. But I believe I can change. I don’t have any frame of reference for some of those things so I have to work to build. Some days I want to quit. Some days I think why can’t I stay the same. Apparently there is unconditional love. I watch my husband give it but cannot understand why. It goes back to the hole inside. Hollow chocolate bunny. My good doctor says I am a peeps bunny. Marshmallow inside. That hole gets filled by external self esteem. I am now trying to keep it filled from within. So altruistic narcissism has been tossed around in my sessions. Gratification because I am keeping everyone happy. I do not think of self happiness now. It’s like inside out narcissism. I am non existent if I am not people pleasing. Before i was non existent if i was not getting attention of any kind. Fortunately my good doctor tells me this is my year. I am going to balance all of it. I laugh. I think nobody will ever have it all together. We are all flawed. Yes, protecting the empath through sociopathic tendencies. This is where I reside. (Reminded me of Jamie Kennedy in Malibu’s Most Wanted) Oh and Jaded yes, I really like you. Okay at least what you allow me to see, I like.

        1. 1jaded1 says:

          I had ro digest this. The person I lost, she seemed to be altruistic N. She told me that learning info about me was like pulling teeth. I have trust issues to say thr least. She swears she never spread what I told her, but others would pop out with things I told only her. She was so giving. I did things with her that tore my boundaries. One day when we were together, she told me that she felt crapped on. I asked her why and she responded that she took care of everyone. She did. When I asked her why she did, her response was that everyone would hate her if she didn’t. I pressed. She said that I would not want to see the other side of her…that she was evil. I could not get it and now I do. I saw her other side. I was the recipient. After I met HG I flat out put her in her place. Altruistic narcissist qualities are something I want to learn more about. I like you too ABB..

  6. Bruised says:

    This veil unnoticed becomes a burden but in the end turns out to be a lesson. You see HG that way we are being tought to become more caution and yes… we don’t trust anymore but then again it’s safer that way… we are then just as locked as You are… in pain…
    ps… I was meaning to ask You something HG since long time… I remember the session with doc where he asked You to look in the mirror… when I was reading it I realised I hate mirrors and my reflection in them ..and would probably react the same way if had to look at myself too long… As if I look into my eyes in that mirror but they are empty… does that make me a Narcissist?

    1. Bruised says:

      do You think it does, dear G.???

      1. HG Tudor says:

        No, it makes you damaged.

      2. Bruised says:

        yeay! you have finally admitted it . I told You I was. But Aren’t we both damaged just with different results.. ?

      3. Bruised says:

        ok … euphoria lasted 20 seconds…I’m actually not happy by having my Master’s confirmation that I am damaged… I feel sick… but thank You ❤

  7. 1jaded1 says:

    Truth. Sad bc I had pretty much no one and he wanted me to have absolutely no one but him. Sometimes it is self imposed. When I went into that mode, I was criticized for not being outgoing enough.

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