Back For More


I make repeated mention of how we always come back for more. This of course is the brilliance of the hoover. Some people struggle to comprehend that we will always keep returning for more fuel, if the opportunity arises. Why would we not? We love fuel. We love your fuel (after all that was why you were chosen as the primary source) and even better we love the hoover fuel which you provide. The hoover serves many functions. First and foremost, it provides us with fuel. It is also a means of exerting control, seeing how the land lies for potential further machinations, a means of preventing you moving forward, a means of hindering your understanding, a method of reinforcing our superiority, dominance and omnipotence. It serves these functions and many more. Hoovers take place throughout the dance with our kind, but most possible associate them with the aftermath, the period following escape or more likely discard. When we look at the hoover in such a scenario, when we come back for more, we do so for one of the following three reasons: –

  1. To draw you back into the relationship again so that the whole narcissistic cycle can begin once more;
  2. To hurt you. We don’t want the formal relationship again but we want to remind you of how worthless you are and thus we aim to hurt you through this form of hoover;
  3. To draw some positive fuel (it may be a drop or it may be lashings of it) but we do not want the formal relationship to start again or indeed ever, but we know you provide delicious hoover fuel so we will keep coming back for more. We do not do enough to recommence the formal relationship but we certainly extract some fuel from you. It might be a text, it may be a telephone call or personal visit, but it is passing. It may only take a moment or an afternoon, but it is temporary and then having extracted the fuel we will withdraw again (only to appear at some later stage). The formal relationship does not begin again.

It is this third manoeuvre (which is a benign follow-up hoover) which often confuses people. You can understand hoovering to start the relationship again. You can understand lashing out at us and being nasty because hey, after all we are Grade A Bastards aren’t we? However, why make the effort to gain some fuel and then withdraw again? It may be because we have a reliable primary source in place but cannot resist a slurp of the hoover fuel. It may happen because circumstance makes it too good to resist. There are several factors but one of the chief factors is the role which you are allocated post escape/discard. The application of the benign follow-up hoover which does not seek the restoration of the formal relationship relies on you conforming to a particular role and the fuel which flows from it. There are many different roles which can be assigned to you at this point, but here are ten of them.

  1. The Wish You Well

Whenever we hoover you, you ask with your well-known decency how we are faring, you ask about our progress workwise, our health and about all other matters. You do so with that goodness of heart and nature for which you as an empathic person is famed and whilst there is no torrent of raging emotion, your kindness and compassion still fuel us. You may well have largely moved on from us, but you are unable to sever all ties. You know not to go back but you cannot help but always want to hear that we are doing good and that you can accordingly wish us well.

  1. The Optimist

This contact gives you hope that there might be a return to the golden period. You do not push it, since you know how this can cause us to react, but you are receptive to our advance, pleased, no delighted to hear from us and you engage with enthusiasm, trying to keep your pulsating heart under control. You see each time we “drop by” as the possibility that this time we sweep you in our arms and take you back once more. Each time you are disappointed but this does not dim your hope and optimism, perhaps next time will be the time?

  1. The Guilty

You feel bad that the relationship did not work out and you blame yourself as much (if not more) than us for its demise. Your status as a love devotee means that you still believe that love will conquer all and you spend your time apologising for what you did that was wrong and that which you did not do right. Of course we do nothing to cause you to think any different, enjoying your self-flagellation which always rises to the surface whenever we get in touch.

  1. The Navel Gazer

You are obsessed with understand who you are and regard your interaction as an integral part of that. You want our views and opinions on your introspection and use any contact from us as an opportunity to invite us to comment about you, no matter how brutal it might be. You believe that you are unable to establish who you truly are without understanding the nature of your relationship with us and each occasion that we reach out to your again provides you with an opportunity to engage for the purpose of finding these answers. Your reliance on us is both edifying and fuelling.

  1. The Healer

You will not let go of the notion that we can be fixed and any interaction between us results in you resuming the mantle of being that healer, putting our interests ahead of your own with the inevitable fuel which arises from your compassionate and kind-hearted behaviour.

  1. The Nymph

You hate us for what we did but the sex was oh so good and you cannot resist the lure of a late night text for some sexual interaction in the hope that it might lead to a tussle between the sheets again. You maintain that all you want is sexual gratification and adopting this stance is a form of payback for us, but your engaging with us through sexting and flirtation provides us with the hoover fuel that we want.

  1. The Tourniquet

You are not a tourniquet but you need one. You cannot work out what has happened and every engagement is a fuel-filled questioning session as to why did we do what we did, why did we hurt you, why did we say those things, why did we mess around and such like. The pain remains raw and the fuel that flows from it is too good to resist.

  1. The Old Reliable

You know you should ignore us but you cannot. Those messages we send are like a nagging itch and you need to scratch so badly. Of course we know this and we regard you as a reliable source of hoover fuel. All we need to do is send a message and you will respond in some form or another, you cannot help yourself.

  1. The Contender

You want back in and you are going to prove to us how damn fine you are and what an a-hole we are for letting you go in the first place. You will tell us just how good you will be for us, what you will do and how we will never get anybody better than you as you do your utmost to convince us that you should come back into our arms. Even if we rebuff you, you will not give up because your desire to be our intimate partner is huge and so with it is the fuel that you provide.

  1. The Burning Oil Well

Your flow of fuel just cannot be shut off. Red Adair would never be able to snuff out the flames and cap the oil well. You are angry, seething, furious at the way you have been treated and you hate us. You absolutely hate us. Each time we reach out to you, you seize the opportunity to vent your anger at us, insulting us, labelling us and going on like some crazed harpy. You think it will upset us but you don’t understand the nature of fuel and whilst we may argue back it is all done to keep this blazing fuel flowing.

Do you recognise yourself in there at all?

90 thoughts on “Back For More

  1. Wisenedup says:

    Healer and Nymph while I was emotionally devastated.Ripped off his mask on an email when I learnt about his disorder and told him that he loathes himself and can’t stand his own company.This ignited his rage and he told me to stop mailing or messaging him to which I said ok .Two days later blocked me on Facebook (which I enjoyed big time ,his rage is now fuel for me ).He has left whatsapp open though for a future hoover but did not text me there .I let a month pass (no contact ).I created a new fb account and blocked him everywhere including Instagram.The power belongs to me now!

  2. Bri says:

    Also, I have a question. Now that I have gone no contact and ignored him, I am very scared for my safety. I didn’t even tell him I was breaking up with him, I just disappeared and stop responding to anything. ( we weren’t really together anyway) Problem is, he lives right by me. Do I have to move, or will he eventually get bored and move on?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      This requires more information Bri to provide you with an accurate answer and therefore the best forum is a consultation.

  3. Bri says:

    Thank you for your insight. Reading your posts helped me stick to no contact. I recently cut contact with a narcissist, and he has made 2 attempts to reconnect…I ignored him. I can feel my power getting stronger. Now the trick is, to not get addited to that!

    Once you figure out how to play (or not play the game) and win, then it’s another battle to not get addicted to winning! Narcissists and empaths have a lot of similar qualities, no matter how much we don’t want to admit it.

  4. Carolyn says:

    He disengaged with me about 2 months ago, telling me he doesnt want to know me anymore. He told me he blocks my number and he blocked me on social media. After a month he unblocked me on SM and started posting things to provoke me to make a contact (listening to our songs online) but i didnt react. Today he sent me a text. What will wound him more – ignoring the text or writing back something aloof like “sorry, i dont know what are you talking about” or “i think you are taking me for somebody else”?

    1. HG Tudor says:


  5. Victoria says:

    Hi H.G.
    If indeed, based on the article “Back for more” you are on hoover # 3 and all they want is fuel but are still involved with a primary source, maybe he is calling because he had a fight or is starting the devaluation process with his new PS. What is the best thing for me to do if he calls or text to not give him any fuel? I know that in person I should have no expression and walk away.
    I don’t see myself in any of the 10 roles mentioned above at this point, in the past yes but we always got together for at least 6-8 months and repeat the cycle again. Since now reading 8 of your books and reading these wonderful and enlightening blogs, I am not the same. As they say, you cannot unscramble scrambled eggs. I have learned enough to know that nothing will ever change; the cycle will always be the same. It’s amazing even though I have a psychology degree, nothing in my education prepared me for this experience. What is most difficult for me to accept/understand is that it was all a facade. Nothing was real. So, everything that was said or done was a lie, correct?
    I am now reading both: Black Flag, and Elated and Eroded. As always, thanks so much!

  6. Tsholo Matlou says:

    You guys are extremely crazy…I rather die than allowing my ex narcissistic back in my life

    On 01 Feb 2017 8:41 PM, “Knowing the Narcissist” wrote:

    > HG Tudor posted: ” I make repeated mention of how we always come back for > more. This of course is the brilliance of the hoover. Some people struggle > to comprehend that we will always keep returning for more fuel, if the > opportunity arises. Why would we not? We love fuel. ” >

  7. Flickatina says:

    I do feel massively depressed that there are times when I wish I was still with him. Seriously – WTF is wrong with me.

    1. Flickatina,
      You are depressed because your feelings were real and his were not. They purposefully bind you to them. They make you reliant on them. They are masters at manipulation. They pull you into their crazy and they don’t want you to leave. Then they do. Then they don’t. It’s all a cat playing with a mouse. You want x number of years wasted? Stop focusing on the good times and focus on all the bad times. The bad should not be there at all. You don’t deserve any bad times. Especially if they are purposefully manufactured to get negative emotions flowing out of you. Do you really miss the abuse? If so ask yourself why you feel you deserve to be abused. You will be fine. Just give it time. Focus on yourself even if it against your nature. *hugs*

      1. Flickatina says:

        Thanks ABB. it’s frustrating because intellectually I know this, emotionally not so much. Mostly I am fine with it but every so often it creeps up on me. Yesterday was one of those times.
        I’ve just had blonde, pink and blue put in my hair, I have a kick-ass new lipstick, I rocked my PT session and damn it all, I’m going to go out tonight and be fabulous. 🍸🍸.

        1. That’s what Ima talkin bout. Go head with your fabulous self! 🍹Stay on Narc Watch!!

      2. Love says:

        Flicka you go girl! I will be going out tonight as well and will have a drink in your honor. Btw, I am so jealous of your pink, blonde, blue highlights … Colors I can never achieve! Please rock them hard along with your lipstick which I’m sure is on fire! 🔥

  8. Victoria says:

    I went through hoover step #1 two or three times in 9 years-the cycle would start all over again. Each time I thought would be the right time-engaged, lived together twice, but not married-2 infidelities that I knew about. Finally last February, after being apart for 8 months we were together in # 3, not formally like before-it felt strange, moments for me but by this time i had little to no trust-I think he felt that. In December, one week after trying to explain his goodbye, for the first time ever, I find out that someone he knew and has kept in touch with for the last 3 years is now living with him. My question is-why live with someone if they are not going to be faithful mentally, physically, etc. Is it fear of not finding all the fuel necessary especially when he is in his mid 70’s?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      The narcissist will live with someone in order to gather fuel, receive character traits and also the residual benefits. The narcissist’s infidelity is as a consequence of the need for fuel and is a manifestation of the sense of entitlement and lack of accountability.

  9. ava101 says:

    If an empath tells her ex-narc that she’s having trouble with her neighbour, and he invites her to stay at his place for a week, and so she does, and he is then busy all the time but invites her then to accompany him for half a day while he’s visiting clients, and promises to drive her to a place she had always wanted to see and also to visit one of the most beautiful places of Europe afterwards … and then neglects her basic needs all day long (like … having a break for food or coffee) and lets her wait to watch his car while he is with his consultant, and then does drive her to those beautiful places on a perfect day – only to become then introvert, and moody, and gloomy, not getting out of the car at that famous place she had wanted to see for ages … wandering off by himself .. refusing to go to a restaurant at a famous town nearby … but wants to drive home instead … and then makes a huge fuss about finding a restaurant in a much smaller village where everything is closed … and refusing to let her get a tea … and then asking her to drive back now that it’s dark while not having said anything about not wanting to drive himself all day long … and mentioning his ex-girlfriend’s supernatural powers on the way … and then back home initiating the biggest fight they ever had … and next day trading her help with painting his office for a massage of her …
    and still being moody … and ignoring her for hours while on the phone but calling her back when she is already in her car to drive home, which he only noticed when she had almost left …
    —-> That’s all done for fuel????
    And a narcissist cannot even enjoy one single afternoon or even a single hour at one of the most sought-after places in all of Europe, not even for a coffee??? WHY?? And why that just moody, gloomy outlook??
    He must even switch to negative fuel after 3 days?!

  10. Sarabella says:

    I am none of them anymore. I ran through every single one of those at one point. Luckily, I never got caught for long in either.

    I am now #11. HISTORY.

    He is the scum of the earth. The most evil person I have ever met. And this is said with no longer any hatred but a full knowledge of who he is. No pity, compassion even. I am light. He is a dark, ugly soul. And every day is another day to neutralize his poison and purge myself of him. He is dead to me now. It’s just a matter of time before he will be nothing but a bad dream.

    And, he is probably a lower/mid narc with maybe some greater going on. He was always so easy to trigger, so he locked himself out from me by blocking me until at the last minute, he didn’t block one avenue but all the while pretending he was punishing me. He’s far away though, so this is all history.

    (sorry HG)

  11. I see nothing wrong with him coming back with a benign hoover for positive fuel.

    1. That’s because you have PTSD.

      1. Hi ABB, i don’t have ptsd any longer. That was a short period of my 3 yr relationship with my ex, when i discovered he’s a narc and why he re-schedules our meetings. Nonetheless, he’s apologetic abt it (at least he says sorry even if he’s a narc and may not feel it, and he tries hard not to repeat his mistakes), and is now very kind and sweet. He always texts to check up on me, to make sure i’m happy and doing well. I give him positive fuel in return. It’s an exchange i’m comfortable with.

        1. As long as you’re good with it. If he truly is a Narc he is dangerous though. Just be careful that you’re not accepting behavior to placate yourself. You could be missing opportunities with a normal man instead of waiting to see if this one is going to keep being nice. It seems if you are testing that theory of how long will he be good, then you should not be with him.

          1. Hi ABB, thx for your comment. I am with someone actually. He knows abt my relationship with my ex-narc and he knows it’s now platonic. He doesn’t mind me keeping in touch with my ex either. It’s a little comicated lol, as i am sure many of the stories here are! I would never go back to my ex, as i know he is not capable of love. But i like my ex as a friend.

          2. Hi PANA,
            I wondered why you want to be friends with someone who abused you? Can you devote time to new boyfriend fully if the ex boyfriend is there only in a “friend ” capacity? If you and new boyfriend are okay, then I am happy for you. I myself would rather have no complications.

          3. Hi ABB, i only communicate with my ex via text or phone. We don’t meet. I don’t want to meet him. But i want to know how he’s doing, and he wants to know how i’m doing. We are in touch abt once a wk or once every two wks. Plus, his abuse was not so bad in retrospect. My main complaint was the future faking. He would agree to meet on a certain day but then call the day before or that day, and re-schedule. When i look back on it, i guess he was pretty nice for a narc lol!

    2. dragoncreeper says:

      Except when he doesn’t come back for a benign hoover….

      1. Nice to see you DC!!

  12. Watermelon says:

    Thanks for that HG, it’s of great help 🙂

    Just one question, what happens when the narc is going through a very serious family situation (sickness)? Do they switch their focus to that and forget about fuel for the time being? I hear through the grapevine that he is very very anxious (naturally).

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I assume you mean someone in the immediate family in unwell Watermelon? If so, do not expect any support from the narcissist unless it benefits him and his behaviour will be geared to gaining fuel. The need for fuel will not be suspended by this illness.

      1. Watermelon says:

        Thanks HG. His own child. Nothing to do with me. I wondered if he’d stop trying to gain fuel while this crisis is unfolding.

    2. dragoncreeper says:

      Not to pull away from HG’s response but if there is an illness in the NARCS family, he WILL use it to gain fuel for his advantage. I don’t care if they adamantly hated the family member or not… now it affects them greatly and they will use it towards their advantage for fuel and whatever else. HG actually has a great post regarding this… please forgive me as I cannot remember the title and there are sooo many posts that I cannot dig through them all…. HG, thats your cue! 😉

  13. Tami Thompson says:

    My x narc pretty much leaves me alone but he continues to question my children about me telling them he will always care and worry about me. They refuse to discuss me with him do you think he is getting some kind of fuel from their actions?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      He is hoping to cause a proxy hoover through them telling you what he is saying. He will gain some fuel from their reactions to what he says and Thought Fuel at your reaction when they tell you. I wonder, have you wounded him? This seems like him trying to avoid further wounding but trying to trigger you to contact him.

  14. indiglowsky says:

    So happy to hear you are thriving girl! Wise words 😊💋

    1. dragoncreeper says:

      Ms. Indy! Thank you! I am so ready to take on the world at this point! I guess you could say I am on a high that no one will be able to knock me down from! <3

      I hope you are well! <3

  15. 1jaded1 says:

    I am none of those now. Tomorrow may change. Ugj that pic..

  16. Rain says:

    Hi HG!!! What if the victim is none of the above? No respond period… How do you feel? Angry or mostly shame?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hello Rain, if the victim does not respond to a benign hoover, we may try again, we may switch to a malign hoover or we may just leave it and seek out a different source of fuel. Our reaction depends on our fuel levels, the type of narcissist and how the failure to respond occurs.

  17. Tami Thompson says:

    So how should we act…That will not fuel your needs

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Do not respond in any way at all. If you feel you must, do so in writing and do so without providing emotion since this is fuel.

  18. Matilda says:

    Because I am in a jolly good mood as of late – having seized the power feels invigorating 😀 – I will let you in on my experience with hoovers, and why they do not work anymore.

    Strategies and reactions:

    1: setting the rules of the game
    He desires continuous contact, but only within the context of friendship.

    reaction: This indicates that he thinks he dictates the rules of the interaction he *asks* me to have with him. He, in fact, is in no position to do so. I decide that. I desire no interaction. And I refuse to be told what to do.

    — —

    2: the time factor
    He points out that we should be able to be on speaking terms again, after all the time that has passed. It is what decent, emotionally mature people do. Remember the good times, forgive, and move on as friends.

    reaction: Time does not change anything. And forgiveness is overrated.

    — —

    3: setting the meeting
    He suggests that we should meet for coffee or lunch, to reconnect, to give me closure as he feels he owes me that.

    reaction: Again, interaction is sought, but on his terms and at his convenience. If past behaviour was the predictor of future behaviour, he would cancel the appointment anyway, laughing at my foolishness. He owes me closure, indeed, but I know that I will not get it from him. I gave myself closure.

    — —

    4: adding a time constraint
    He indicates that this is the ‘last chance’ to iron out any issues, and asks me to act soon.

    reaction: Well, I have heard that before, and it has never been the last time.

    — —

    5: pulling at heartstrings
    He gets in touch when his life is genuinely in danger.

    reaction: Of all the strategies used, this one worked, and I broke ‘no contact’ early last year. There was no anger in my message, just love and acceptance borne out of disillusionment… and a Farewell. He survived. I am glad about it, I have never wished death upon him. This lapse has obviously given the impression that delicious fuel might flow again with persuasion and persistence. What he cannot know is that I am not the same person I was a year ago, and this is not working anymore… it is slowly dawning on him though…

    A very skillful player of games, I dare say!… Have you learned anything new, HG? Probably not.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      No I have not Mathilda, but thank you nevertheless for sharing your experiences and how you are seizing the power. I am always interested to read about that.

      1. Matilda says:

        You are welcome, HG.

  19. Debbie says:


    I love your post.
    Thank you. Very uplifting.

    1. dragoncreeper says:

      Thank you Debbie! Keep your head up and find your inner peace, then let it shine! <3

  20. Red rider says:

    Told you I’d be back with a question;). So he’s back in a full Hoover… he tells me he’s going to friend my mother on Facebook and apologise how he treated me all those years ago and hopes to see her the next time she’s in town!!! What is this about??? And the cocktails are great but can’t figure out this one lol

    1. HG Tudor says:

      He is looking to get her onside for the purpose of manipulation and is also telling you this in the hope of exhibiting that he is showing good faith. He is not. It is all further manipulation.

  21. Snow White says:

    The third maneuver is the one I didn’t understand at first.
    It was a month and a half between the time I said goodbye to my ex to when I realized through this blog that is was the case that she never wanted to really get back together. I thought all her quotes that she was indirectly sending me meant that she still cared. Nope!!!!
    She only wanted to bait me and get fuel.

    I am hoping that I will be none of these one day.
    Number 8 would stop and make me think but I would immediately come to this blog before I ever responded. I would be sitting on my hands.

  22. dragoncreeper says:

    I couldn’t resist….

    #6 would have been my reason but that’s all over now! 😀

    Wanna know how to make a girl stay? Tie her up cause this one is OUT!

    1. Snow White says:

      Hey D.C,
      How are you???

      If I wasn’t married and within the first few vulnerable months 6 would have gotten me.
      That was her last play in her car.
      Ohhh how her car was a trap.
      She didn’t think I would resist but I broke free and walked away.

      1. dragoncreeper says:

        Hey Snow! I am actually doing fabulously! <3

        How are you doing?

        My advice – if you can muster – is to take yourself back and get out there… enjoy EVERYTHING… Go out with your girlfriends, go out alone… I have done so many things alone because many women my age have children or husbands… so I went clubs alone, concerts and so many other things. I HAVE absolutely enjoyed every time and not regretted it once… I have met many new people and had my share of the same type of brash men and a few women… I have cut them out really quickly. I enjoy doing what I want, when I want, cooking how I like, wearing what I want and looking however I please!

        I have more time to create and work on myself… I couldn't be happier.
        Also, I have reconnected with a friend from YEARS ago and things are absolutely wonderful.

        Go out, have fun, stop worrying about being trapped into a relationship with a narcissist. You are in control, you make the decisions… be an asshole, be forward and say exactly what you want and what you won't do. We, as empaths, worry way too much about what others think of us! When I stopped caring what anyone thought, my life became a whole lot more fun and interesting.
        I don't want to be a jerk but I refuse to be locked up and the rest of my life dictated for me while a jerk uses me as a punching bag because he isn't happy being himself.

        Ladies, you have one life as you… make the best of it! I OWN mine! <3

        1. Amber says:

          Ty so much, dragon creeper. I wish could print and laminate this. For those of us who were abused before our consciousness or sense of self even finished forming, i think some of us have an instinctive need to keep re-establishing the dynamic in order to solve or fix it this time. You offer great insight into what will actually really help, though, and that is to heal the core of who we are through positive feedback into our souls. Bless you. This is really encouraging.

        2. Snow White says:

          I’m sooo happy for you DC!!!!!!

          That’s wonderful that you are getting out there and enjoying life. Sounds like all your new experiences are a blast. I get that about women your age having kids and husbands. I had my kids before most of my friends so they are still heavily into their activities. Glad you are going by yourself.

          Is this new Friend a possibility of anything?😉

          I am doing much better minus a few days here and there. But I’m still going forward.
          I just got back from the beach in Florida and many days spent by the pool. It was beautiful.
          I just joined a new gym last week and I already feel better that I’ve now gotten out there. I was worried about triggers but I’ve had none!!!!!
          Next week I’m trying kickboxing.

          I love hearing your progress. You go DC!
          Sending you lots of love and hugs❤️🍎❤️

          1. dragoncreeper says:

            Yes, I had my kiddo young too so I am ready to enjoy life a little more my way :D.
            Yes, my new (old) friend and I have been enjoying time together AND there is definitely something. 😀

            Florida is one of my favorite areas…. the beaches out there are beautiful compared to here! It sounds like you really enjoyed that 🙂 That is awesome that you are going to the gym, me too! <3 Kickboxing sounds really fun, you've gotta let me know how that goes! I am so happy that you are not having triggers… I think it becomes a little easier the more you take yourself back! <3 I think having to spend time with myself has made me appreciate my imagination, thoughts, deep thoughts, attitude and my insanity… Our minds are so incredible and we are capable of anything if we put our minds to it… negative thoughts = negative health, positive thoughts = positive health, both mentally and physically.

            Keep your head up and keep moving forward Snow, you sound like your rays of light are breaking through the big puffy, grey clouds! <3
            I am sending lots of love and hugs right back to you Snow! <3 :-*

          2. Snow White says:

            Ohhhh DC!!! I’m excited for you about your new FRIEND!! You deserve nothing but fun and happiness after everything that you have been through.

            Yes I can feel some of old self now that I have been out doing something for me and something that I enjoyed so much before.
            I will give you a review about kickboxing.
            Today I took a Brazilian Booty class. 😂😂

            I bet you can see your happiness shine through in your art. Are you painting different subjects now?
            I’ll be thinking of you dancing around your house with the music cranked up. ❤️️❤️️❤️️

        3. I miss you DC. It’s not the same without you. You had to go all “normal” on us and disappear? I’m happy that you are doing well. Big hug and kiss for you!!!

          1. dragoncreeper says:

            Anna Belle my dear… normal I will never be, I have just been keeping myself super busy and enjoying everything I couldn’t before! So many opportunities open up when you put yourself out there and I can say that I am enjoying life… not quite to the fullest but I will get there soon enough. (I need mo money :D)

            Hugs and kisses to you my dear!

          2. Yes, I heard that before, opportunities open up when you put out.

      2. Love says:

        DC, I missed you soooooo much!!!! Glad to see you’re doing amazing! ❤❤❤

      3. dragoncreeper says:

        Amber, I was with my ex for almost 8 years…. I completely understand when you say that “those of us who were abused before our consciousness or sense of self even finished forming”… BUT I have to ask, are you referring to childhood abuse or just the relationship? I look at your statement in terms of the loving relationship you thought you had and worked so incredibly hard to maintain. I know, that was me… I took EVERY bit of abuse he threw my way. I did it over and over again and it was okay when he stopped ignoring me, held me close and told me how much he loved me and he could never leave me. He never did discard me and we were together almost every moment when neither of us was working….but that is because he was worried about what I was doing when he wasn’t around, not because he loved me so much and wanted to be immersed in my light and love. He tried to snuff my flame, the very thing he claimed he loved so incredibly much about me…. yes, he loved it if I were his and locked away for him only.

        You DO have to remember what YOU love, who YOU are and love yourself first! I get to watch what I want to watch, listen to the music I want to listen to, read without being distracted, work on my drawings, go to the gym (the gym would have created a problem), walk anytime I want, and take off in my car and just drive! 🙂

        It all hurts, I have cried many times on my drives and thought the dumbest thoughts BUT as time goes on you just begin to heal more and more….it just stops hurting. AND when you meet someone who treats you like a human being with options, choices and a mind of their own… man is it fabulous!

        You will get there BUT you have to think positively and of course cry when you need to! Let all of those emotions out! <3

        I have met plenty of narcissistic men and even been hit on by narcissistic women… if I give my number out, take a chance or two and find out that they are absolute RED FLAGS, HG has equipped us all with the means to rid yourself of them…. I will not stop being me, I will not be scared and hide away nor will I turn away someone who peaks my interest BUT I will heed the warnings and cut them off quickly. FYI, some are really annoyingly persistent so don't invite anyone to your place, not even just to pick you up!!!!!

        Just be smart, be prepared for fun and move forward! <3

    2. dragoncreeper says:

      LOVE!!! I do miss you my twinkie BUT I have to say I am taking my fun self out and about… I like the trouble in person, it gives me more of a thrill! 😉

      Hugs and lots of kisses <3

      1. Love says:

        I’m proud of you girlee! I can feel your wonderful vibrant energy all the way through my phone screen! Thanks for coming back and letting us know what is important in life: Enjoying every minute! You’ve inspired me and I’m going to start having more fun! ❤

    3. Amber says:

      Dragon, i meant for those of us who are sexually and physically abused before the age of seven, the general consensus on when the personality seems to be pretty developed. Your question was hard for me to answer until now, as i only started ptsd specific counseling this June or so, even though I’ve been in it since about 8 or 9 years old. Some of the aspects of the abuse, both as a child and adult are too hard to take out and look at. In my case, the narcissistic rage resulted in more than one attempted murder against me and current disability by one guy, and using $100,000 of my money from another, so it’s hard to trot all that out. Lol but i would say that yes, now that you mention it, i can actually say that both interpretations make sense. I still don’t really know who i am because i never have felt safe. Al anon has helped me significantly, and my ptsd/battered women’s shelter counselor has recommended i start back asap. I am thankfully without a relationship atm and am free in the way you describe, to an extent, minus the fun activities. I think that joy may come one day later. Idk. I’m being treated for an ovarian tumor so maybe it’ll just take time. Bless you for sharing your testimony of your stepping out of the darkness. I know it’s kind of a silly song, but i love the song girls just want to have fun, and the phrase, “some boys take a beautiful girl, and hide her away from the rest of the world”. I think we can do it to ourselves, as well, even after the abuser is long gone but has left a shadow on our soul. Didn’t mean to get serious on here, just wanted to share my appreciation for the uplifting words and thought process. Lol bless you for your inspiration.

  23. Amber says:

    Oh my goodness, this is so annoying. I’m almost every one on here, or have been. God i need some self control. Lol! But I’m doing better. 😊

    1. Amber says:

      Same here Amber!

  24. Amanda says:

    Oh and thank you for this. Its been on my mind for a while ( 2 years post escape) that I cannot understand why at 3 o’clock he’s telling my he loves me and misses me than at 5 o’clock he’s telling me im a whore and everyone see’s it. I wondered why if he wanted to be with me, how could you not see talking to me like that wont accomplish that. But now I see it’s not about wanting the relationship back…..

    Thank you, HG

  25. Amanda says:

    I am 6 of those things. Especially the one referring to needing to reply like a bad itch. I am so conditioned to reply asap I cannot get out of doing it yet and I hate it.

  26. Nikki M says:

    He came back after his 2 year affair…he. Maimed to end it…and wants our marriage. However, I’m drained and depleted due to this crazy cycle that’s gone on for the past year. I’m always to blame, always my fault. Just today I questioned why his phone said he wasn’t at work. He flipped out, called me screaming obscenities and hung up on me. I need to get out but he’s drained all finances, my house is in foreclosure and he’s trying to get me to cash in my IRA…which I’m not going to do. It was my mistake letting him come back home, now I feel stuck and crazy. We have 3 kids and I think the only reason he hasn’t discarded me (he’s packed and threatened to leave numerous times) but I told him if he walks out he’s never to return. Ever. He never leaves, just threatens. I think I’m a bit of an optimist, however at this stage of devaluation I just want it over.

  27. Iridessa says:

    I was just recently discarded, so for now I’m all of the above (dammit)
    Is a discard the same as a grand finale? How would you know the difference?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hi Iridessa, there is no true discard nor grand finale, there is always a risk of return.

      1. Iridessa says:

        Thank you H.G makes sense. The discard seemd to have been done in an impuls. I say seemd cause ofcourse you never know. I found proof of emotional cheating, his fight/flight response was to call the police. What is always up with that btw? So immature. Anyway, 2 weeks of talking on the phone, soulmate, eternal love, always be friends, you start drama, blablabla, blocked.
        Angry and confused victim, exposes him, he has new supply not the one from emotional cheating , triangulation, relationship bulletins, cyberstalking. Weird.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Calling the police would create more fuel, it would also be used to blame-shift by accusing you of being the aggressor.

          1. Iridessa says:

            Thanks HG. And you’re right, somehow I’m the abuser in all of this. Is the hatred in the smear campaign bc I exposed him? Will it settle after a while? I don’t like being hated. Anyway, lots of projection projecten in the smear campaign but also between the lines all I hear is: she stood up to me, she saw through me.

            I did. If this is the case is there likely to be less chance of a hoover?

          2. HG Tudor says:

            It is. Read Smeared and you will find more answers there.

            The impact on the Hoover Execution criteria is that your exposure will raise the bar, but whether there is a hoover also depends on other factors as well, not just this one factor re exposure.

  28. Debbie says:

    Oh God..
    Yes… the venting like a harpy.
    (… masterpiece of insight HG…Obviously)
    Oh… well…ive got your book Exorcism amongst others today…so defo got to go and slink off and get my act together.

  29. moxiesstone says:

    11 years, none yet.

  30. Which is your favourite?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Of what Alexis?

      1. Agh I know you’re only playing with me HG. But as it’s you ill humour you anyway. Which type of hoover fuel do you prefer?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          If I am devaluing another and wish to resurrect a former relationship, I want the positive.

          If someone has been treacherous and they must be punished – I want the negative.

          1. Snow White says:

            Thinking of myself as treacherous always makes me laugh.
            It was all done for love and the belief in fate and a soul mate.
            You do bring humor into an unimaginable disaster of a relationship.

          2. Ah that makes perfect sense HG. Thank you

      2. Treat yourself…………….

        ………..god damn it!

  31. SweetFreedom says:

    Number 1. Hate that I am still number 1. It is a good guarantee that I ask how he is, how are his family, etc. I ask and he answers…and goes on and on, detail by detail. Not once does he ask how I am or how my family is. Never.

    I was 2, 5 and 7 in the beginning. Those passed by quickly. I no longer want him, do not wait with bated breath nor want a reconciliation.

    But number 1…it is against my nature to be a cold to anyone. I always ask and he knows I will. I need to stop fueling him.

  32. Hmmm..
    I’m 6 and 9. Coincidence? I think not.

  33. Abandonedone says:

    I’d love to hear more about your perspective on the absent, non-hoovering, wanting out of marriage (walked out once exposed) narc. Replaced with addictions and accolades from work. Silent treatment unless business then only via email.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Do you mean in terms of what is he doing having walked out and is not hoovering?

      1. Abandonedone says:

        I think so. One example I know a husband admitted his addictions- At first he supposedly wanted help then stopped getting help and began denying everything…stating facts were lies and crazy (usual narc denial) then abruptly left when nobody was home. He stated he’s happier away because he doesn’t have to be accountable to anyone (he thinks accountability is control) and he’s able to “hide” his addictions because those around him now don’t know the truth since he’s a compulsive liar. He has never once tried to repair his marriage/hoover. The addictions are ruining his life as his perceptions of reality are off and real life consequences are stacking up. He seems to believe he’s invincible from reality catching up with him. He dreams of avoiding court for his wish for divorce after mandated separation, but that too is not reality. (He’s trying to avoid the cost because he wants the money for addictions).
        So, I guess the question is which is driving more… the narcissism or addictions? Or any other insight you have to these often tied together issues? Does any of this make sense?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You may find the article Cheers! The Narcissist and Alcohol of use in addressing the situation.

      2. Abandonedone says:

        Hi! Did you see my reply? Thanks!

  34. Flickatina says:

    Before I came here, number 5. Immediately after I came here, number 10.

    Not sure what I am now. I hope none of them.

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