The Errors of the Ignorant – No 1

JUST LOVE HIM

A series based on the comments made by people who fail to understand the true nature of narcissists and the narcissistic dynamic. Whilst these comments may be well-intentioned, they are incorrect, perpetuate misunderstandings and in many cases create false hope, dashed expectations and perilous outcomes.

It is a common response by those who fail to recognise our kind and also have no understanding of what we are and how we operate to tell the bewildered victim that the cure to our odd and unpleasant behaviour is to shower us with love.

Note that here the timing is important. We are devaluing you and therefore you are already on that slippery slope towards dis – engagement.

If, as someone who has been ensnared by one of our kind, you turn to somebody who is empathic for advice to understand what is going on, you will fall foul of their empathic trait of being a love devotee. This belief in the power of love, whilst a good trait in itself, is corrupted to become a burden when it is added to the equation with our kind. This near slavish belief in the fact that love will conquer all ills and overcome all problems results in an understandable, albeit misguided, injunction to apply more love to the problem with the narcissist.

It is not going to work. It is too late.

This is suggested most often with regard to the romantic dynamic between victim and narcissist. The advisor fails to recognise that the temper tantrums, the silent treatments and the name-calling, amongst so much else, are manifestations of the ignited fury of a wounded narcissist and instead attribute them to something else – it does not matter what the chosen descriptions might be because they are wrong. This means that the advisor fails to identify that the victim is in the grip of a narcissist in this romantic entitlement. They also fail to recognise what this means in terms of behaviour and as a consequence they see the application of love as a panacea which will cure all ills. This does not work with our kind.

There is no issue in providing us with more and more love during the golden period. Indeed, this is what we want and as a consequence of that approach you provide us with plenty of positive fuel. All is well. Of course, your confusion and bewilderment begins when we start to devalue you and you cannot understand why it is happening. Thus, you turn to someone else, some advisor, to try to gain answers for these unfathomable behaviours, volte faces and about turns.

The devaluation may occur for several reasons, when in the romantic dynamic between narcissist and Intimate Partner Primary Source (“IPPS”) but in the majority of cases it is because of the failure by the IPPS to maintain fuel at the right level of frequency, quantity and potency.

If you love us more and therefore provide us with more positive fuel during devaluation then there are several outcomes which can occur, but ultimately they all arrive at the same place; failure.

  1. If the problem was that your positive fuel was not stale but you were not providing it as often and as in the quantities we wanted, then an extra push of loving behaviour from you will remedy the problem BUT only for a short while. You will be granted a Respite Period by the narcissist as your positive fuel shines once again and the golden period returns. This may last for a few weeks, perhaps months, but it will ultimately result in your finding yourself in the place detailed at point three below;
  2. If the drop off in your positive fuel was caused by quantity and frequency issues, then devaluation has begun and there is a risk that we have begun the process of engaging with finding your replacement. Dependent on how advanced those searches are and how effective the prospective replacements are responding, even though you increase the frequency and quantity it may not be enough to save you from continuing devaluation, because of the interaction with one or more Candidate Intimate Partner Secondary Sources. Thus, loving us all the more does not work and your devaluation continues;
  3. The problem may not be the frequency and/or quantity but the level of potency. We have, in essence, had too much of a good thing and our familiarity to your potent positive fuel means it has lost its allure. Consequently, by trying to give us more of something we have become ‘sickened’ to, is not going to work. It is like someone becoming tired of strawberry ice cream and you turning up with a huge tub of strawberry ice cream. You will not stop the devaluation. Even if you managed to secure a Respite Period (see one above) eventually the familiarity issue will appear and you will find yourself in a situation where the potency no longer is effective, no matter how hard you try to love us and show that that love and devaluation will continue.

The consequences of this is that advising somebody to continue to love and to show even more love for us are:-

  1. The creation of a false hope that the perplexing behaviour we engage in will end;
  2. Victims will remain in an abusive and misery-inducing relationship for longer than they need to;
  3. Exposure to potential harm – whether it is the physically explosive response of a Lesser Narcissist through to the enduring mind games and psychological torture of coupling with a Greater Narcissist. The risk is increased of some form of harm – sexual, physical, psychological and/or financial arising;
  4. A complete erosion of the victim as they keep giving and giving of themselves, spurred on by this apparent authority that love will provide them with the answer to the issue and make it all good;
  5. A further false hope whereby if a Respite Period has arisen, the victim is conned into thinking that this increased loving has been successful, when in actual fact all it has done is secure a stay of execution and most likely made the eventual resumption of the devaluation all the harder to endure;
  6. The pollution of the victim. At some point the victim will be dis – engaged with and the failure of this apparent panacea of applying increased loving runs the risk of creating cynicism so that the victim feels unable to and/or unwilling to ever try to love anybody else again in a romantic sense.

This advice provided by somebody who is ignorant about what we are is tantamount to saying to somebody, “Stay in the burning house because eventually the fire will stop and you will then be okay.”

If you are in the romantic dynamic with our kind, all the continued provision of your love when the devaluation has already commenced will achieve is to cause you to be bound to us and it signals to us that there is more negative fuel to be drawn from you because of your desperation to remain with us and to try to apply love to cure a situation which has now become one which cannot be cured.

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61 thoughts on “The Errors of the Ignorant – No 1”

  1. I have been involved with a greater narcissist for 4 months. The hoovering lasted 1 month, later followed by devaluation. I was unaware the individual was a narcissist until I discussed the relationship with my therapist last week. She quickly diagnosed my love interest within the first 10 minutes of my session. Upon learning of his potential personality disorder I sought knowledge and realized my therapist was correct. After listening to your interviews and reading your blogs, I have come to the realization I identify with the super empaths and feel as though I am entering the supernova phase. I have narcissistic traits however I am still a novice and seek some insight. Can I ever tell him I know he is a clinical narcissist?

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      1. Interestingly enough he is in the devaluing phase with me however he has not been successful. I tethered on escaping but feel empathy for the narcissist. How am I any better than him if I simply walk away?
        HG’s good doctors have been in a stable professional relationship with him. I realize they are in a different sphere however I am not easily tempted. I am working with a therapist to keep me grounded if these interactions become pathological for me.

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  2. I have been reading and learning alot from you, my question is have you ever heard of a narc overcoming this behavior by the grace and mercy of God

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  3. Dear H. G.

    heartbreaking.

    On Apr 11, 2017 10:41 PM, “Knowing the Narcissist” wrote:

    > HG Tudor posted: ” A series based on the comments made by people who fail > to understand the true nature of narcissists and the narcissistic dynamic. > Whilst these comments may be well-intentioned, they are incorrect, > perpetuate misunderstandings and in many cases create fa” >

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      1. I’m not sure you can really “escape” either. From my experience it’s more like having a much loved family member die. You go thru the 5 stages of grief and learn how to move on with your life, but you never forget them and still feel a sadness whenever something brings them to mind… Hopefully it’s not this way for all of you, but for me – if I ever loved someone, then that love is imprinted in my mind forever. And it doesn’t matter what type of person they were, what they did to me or if they ever loved me back. I can never escape caring about them any more than I can escape myself. And maybe that’s not necessarily a bad thing. Learning how to accept and deal with all the pain and loss has changed me and helped me grow into a better, more caring person than if I’d not had to fight abuse and heartache.

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  4. So basically you want mind readers who can provide the frequency, potency, & quantity of fuel you require without having to tell us how to do it?

    Do you as a greater see this logic as doomed from the start? I could see lessers & mid rangers thinking this is logical as you’ve mentioned, they don’t fully know why they do what they do.

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  5. That picture you chose reminds me of another I saw very similar, with a caption “He was a demon seeking peace. She was an angel seeking chaos.”
    Maybe the fuel subsides in your perspective, because as your IP becomes confident and secure in the relationship, she feels at peace and is no longer seeking chaos subconsciously? You try to recreate the chaos created by MatriNarc because it is all you know and it is unresolved in your psyche.
    With regard to your content, I have two girlfriends I finally shared that JN had been hoovering and in contact for 3 months since the holidays up until a week 1/2 ago.
    Both of their reactions were along the lines of “he’s kept this going for over 4 years. What is he afraid of? Clearly he cares about you.”
    That right there was the logic keeping me hopeful for 2-1/2 years. Now I can emphatically tell them it has nothing to do with him caring about me. They don’t get it.
    Nothing else you can say at that point.

    Liked by 4 people

    1. I see the force in what you suggest in the your first paragraph and you have conveyed in a nutshell one of the issues which victims face when dealing with people who just do not get it.

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    2. Hi MLA,
      Yes, those folks that believe this is actually healthy for a man to keep doing this for 4 years….like it is romantic, holding a candle or something. If I only knew then (my ex-husband held a candle for a long (too long) time, almost creepy manner….and my friends thought “awwwww, when’s the wedding?” **rolls eyes**

      I agree with that quote you noted above too, I think we naturally look for balance, when we really need to be seeking from within. Many of the folks I worked with that have trauma histories, including those with BPD, often crave that drama…because it was the norm in childhood. Indeed, as you said, recreating the mold from childhood!!

      So, is JN still contacting you? Is it stalkish?
      Hope you are well, dear!
      Indy

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      1. Hello Indy!
        Always a pleasure hearing from you.
        No, JN would never be a “stalker”. I don’t fear him and our dynamic never escalated or was one with threats of harm, which is why I think on both sides the craving and addiction towards each other has lasted ridiculously long.
        My friends think it is just such odd behavior and strange. Why keep contacting someone if you don’t want to spend time with them and give things a chance? Hence why they return to thinking he has to care about me. That mindset is what would keep me stuck thinking I always have something to prove.
        On a different note, we had shared that we both read the book, “The Body Keeps the Score”.
        I’m currently reading, “The Science of Evil” by Simon Baron-Cohen. He wants to replace human cruelty or what would be deemed “evil” with what he calls “empathy erosion” and having it fall on a spectrum. He is trying to determine if, depending on what degree your empathy circuitry is eroded, can you relearn empathy. Pretty interesting.

        Liked by 1 person

      2. Hi MLA!! Yesssss, emotional empathy spectrum…yesssss!!! Oh thank you for sharing this book. I’m gonna pick it up this weekend online, if I can. This is how I view it from (my humble opinion based on just a handful of experiences)and to see others are investigating this from this perspective is so exciting!!!

        Now with regard to JN, I can totally see why you and others would be thrown off and confused. It would confuse me too when there are no malign Hoover’s or miss treatments. It definitely has the signs of a push pull relationship though. I am glad that you sought advice from HG. A junior narc, that nickname still cracks me up.
        Hope you are well and again thank you for the book referral!
        Indy

        Liked by 1 person

      3. Hi Indy!
        I replied to you the day you asked me this. It was a bit longer. It’s still in moderation. I didn’t want you to think I blew you off.
        I referenced a book I’m currently reading and thought maybe HG is checking into that? Lol

        Liked by 1 person

      4. Hi MLA,
        I didn’t think you blew me off at all. I’m so ADHD that I sometimes forget questions I have asked. Lol thank you for your thoughtfulness 😊 I look forwRd to the message being released by HG 😂
        Hope you are having a great weekend!

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    3. I think the narcAllister has recreated the victimhood he perceives he endured from his own childhood. Bullied at school, and rejected at home in favour of his sister by peculiar religious freaky parents, his discard of me has parallels of their discard of him. His Dad is a narc.

      The freaky parents came back on the scene only after his fake suicide attempt in 2013. They had kept in touch with the two kids from his first marriage that he dumped for adoption (to avoid child support) behind his back, and have never acknowledged our son.

      The narcAllister portrays himself as a victim; I read his messages and comments sometimes with my jaw on the floor. One of his friends on FB gave me a password so I can see everything. I think the booze, drugs, client sexual relationships, sexual identity crisis, the tattoos, multiple religious addictions and everything else he does to “feel” are all chaos seeking highs. When I gave up fighting my first husband for child support it was the narcAllister who wanted the fight to continue.

      The level of spousal abuse he meted out in pursuit of these highs is horrific. And yet he still claims he is a victim.

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      1. That is actually pretty horrifying and on top of it to try to function with normal day-to-day life. My heart goes out to you!

        Liked by 1 person

    4. MLA
      I have been thinking along the same lines as in your 1st paragraph lately. The need for chaos on both sides. You would think if you endured abuse young that you would run from it but it is hard to admit (and some dont recognize) that after awhile the peace is boring and things are stagnant. That you feel subconciously you need something to get your blood pumping, so turn to excess. Some turn to drugs, alcohol, sex, still others-extreme sport to get that “alive” feeling (apparently chesterfield rugby with a Narc can cover both sex and extreme sport on occasion lol). But with an intimate relationship it is harder for some to realize thats what they are doing. You think you have the golden ticket (or in this case period) but then it gets stale and you need some chaos (even though you know that is viewed as wrong). I cant tell you how many times Ive read HGs views on turning to negative fuel and thinking: I get it, I really do. You need the pressure and chaos you were used to after awhile but you dont want to admit that because its like saying you want to be abused again (and you are an intelligent person so surely that cant be the case!!???) but nothing else makes you feel “alive”. Instead-you just cause it to happen. It fills you with that power (especially when they stay or return) and so you can spin it in your head that its your Superiority when really all you wanted was to experience that drug of chaos again and then have someone to blame when it goes bad. It cant ever work because it has been beat into you that nothing was ever good enough and this is no exception. Its you or them. They must be destroyed.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. I absolutely agree. I’ve been chasing the highs of narc relationships all my adult life. It has been a revolving door, when one leaves, another replaces him soon after. I’ve sought the abuse… Willingly. I would have continued this destructive cycle at full speed, but finally my engine broke down. I don’t have the same gusto to go after yet another situation. This ‘habit’ cannot be sustained forever. It takes a toll on your soul.

        Liked by 1 person

      2. Love
        Can you say what has caused this shift or your “engine to break down” and has you seeking another path? That might help others, hearing it from someone they feel understands (that is if you care to share). God knows I am no help in that dept. I am interested also but dont mean to put you on the spot.

        Liked by 1 person

      3. NarcAngel, I wish I knew what broke me. I haven’t had any narc activity for almost a year. So all has been peaceful. However, out of the blue, I began to have very bad anxiety at night. A feeling of being choked (and not in a good way) 😉
        I couldn’t sleep and my mind was always ON. Music blasting, thoughts whirling.
        My acupuncturist described it as such:
        ‘You’ve been in war mode for all these years. You had no time to digest what was happening. You were reacting. Surviving.
        Now, you are in peace mode. You’re spirit finally has time to settle. Yet it cannot settle when there is still so much chaos (negative energy) within you. Your body is unable to expel it. It does not know how. ”
        With the help of acupuncture, mindfulness, therapy, and natural drugs I’m feeling much better. More calm. Thank God.
        Maybe I should thank the Pink Moon, as Mr. Tudor mentioned.

        Liked by 2 people

      4. I understand all that. I think the chaos can mean different things for different people, but yes stemming from feelings of inadequacy and not being good enough.
        Another path feeding into the chaos is being drawn to someone needing “saving”. It then gives us purpose and drive and hopefully someone who loves us and is loyal in return.

        Liked by 1 person

  6. I recently realized that my father was a covert narcissist. My ex husband is a sociopath and narcissist. I left him and went full no contact. So, through years of counseling and medication and physical relocation I thought I was knowledgeable and could spot and thereby avoid narcissists. Then I met my current lover, who seemed perfect in every way. Come to find out, he’s a covert narcissist too. I’m his IPSS. I feel as though I was groomed to be fuel or supply to narcissists. Sadly, it’s what I know best. Even sadder still is that I’m addicted to him and as much as he’s hurt me, I know it’ll hurt even more before I can completely let go.

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    1. Jana i can relate. I think covert narcissists are the most difficult to let go because they keep the facade up so very well! Overts are more in your face and imo obvious.
      My covert narc is so convincing theres times i say to myself im ok with accepting the fake love because its so perfect. I do know its not anything to build anything substantial on because for that you need a strong foundation. Its still hard to believe its a facade. Nothings ever black or white tho. You can be with someone with npd and enjoy their personality and what you share despite the disorder. Coverts tho …i hear you on that one. They are clever and very convincing. Too bad we cant get rid of the npd part and keep the facade as it seems so real.

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      1. One thing ive learned since reading these blogs is the fact i no longer consider myself a intimate primary source. The narc and i spend our days together in person and online but the fact hes not married and has always been single makes me believe im more than likely an intimate secondary source among a few. The tip off was the mention of golden periods and the fact they last longer with secondaries. Its been 6 years and altho theres been moments of devaluation and one discard initiated by me theres not been devaluing the way a primary would experience. I honestly dont think hes ever had a primary as hes never been married or lived with a woman. Anyways the blogs have really cleared this up in my situation. I do think if you live with a narcissist you experience their disorder more intensely than a secondary ever would.

        Liked by 1 person

      2. My narc is very charming and extremely handsome. He’s funny, smells good, is gainfully employed, goes to church every Sunday and even plays in the church band. He’s outwardly perfect. No one would ever believe me if I told them the truth. No one wants to know. They’d rather put on blinders and pretend everything is fine. Smh.

        Liked by 2 people

    2. They do perfect it coverts. Im pretty sure my narc is a greater altho more a mix of greater and midrange. Hes extremely charming and could win over anyone ive seen it happen with my own eyes many times. Very attractive and also caring and nurturing or so the covert act portrays very well. It still fools me and then there are times as you mentioned i want to wear the blinders. The npd does surface tho.
      Knowledge is power but once you know what they are you can never go back to not knowing. Its such a waste that people this perfect on the outside have npd and can never be that person in the facade. I dont know how much is fake vs real. I do know its not all fake that im certain of.

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    3. Jane H,
      Your last four sentences really resonate with me. I think if we grow up in families with narcissists our parents want us to be narcs since they believe that is best. If we are unable to be a narcissist due to our empathy, then becoming really adept at coexisting with and providing fuel for narcissists is a main survival strategy. We do learn how to do it best and we unconsciously slip into that role when we run into new narcs. It just feels like the right thing to do.

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  7. HG,
    I have been reading your blogs for awhile now. At one point, I did respond to one post but it was out of anger and denial of the relationship (more like situation) I have found myself in. After reading so much now, I know the man I’m involved with is a greater, but he can’t control his fury so he has become physically abusive, which probably makes him a lesser greater. This scares the hell out of me because the last time I honestly thought he was going to kill me. The only way I was able to stop him from going all the way was to start crying and begging for my life, which I normally try not to do with him, because in the past I have fought back and showered him with insults but this time, I saw it in his eyes. It was evil. It scared me so bad I could feel the evil all around me. I started shaking so hard and my mind went numb because I thought, this is it, I’m going to die tonight. Then, by the grace of only God, I think, it was like a light switch. He literally switched off. It was surreal. As it was happening he even told me how he was going to get rid of my body and no one would ever know. It was like he had been through that scenario so many times and he knew exactly what needed to be done. But at the last minute I blurted out, but they will know, because I keep a journal and I have been writing down everything that happens between us, and they will know it was you. I could see the wheels turning in his head, like all at once he was seeing everything, from every angle, and the combination of me begging, sobbing, and shaking uncontrollably finally sank in and he just stopped. Anyway, didn’t mean to go into so much detail, but what I really wanted to say is this. I know I am not in love with this man, he has killed it. But something is keeping me from ending it for good bc I want him to pay for what he has done not only to me, but my god, all the others. I have been documenting all of the abuse and have all of the bruises, marks,scratches, etc. in my phone. My goal here is to keep doing this until I have so much evidence that he will actually get what he deserves. He belongs behind bars. He will kill someone one day if he hasn’t already. I want to have so much evidence that when I finally expose him for the monster that he is, there will be no denying it. He is super intelligent and he knows the law so well. Is this something I should pursue, or would I be better off walking away and letting the cards fall where they may. I can’t shake this strong desire to see him suffer the way I have suffered. Whatever this is building inside of me can’t be good. Really don’t know what to do. If anyone has taken the time to read this long post, I want to say, evil truly is walking on earth. Also, if I disappear one day, I will have left behind a few clues. I don’t want my life to have been for nothing. If he kills me, then that will save the next person from suffering the same fate. If I have to die to bring to light what this evil man is, then so be it.
    PS
    I do keep a journal (everyone reading this, WRITE THIS STUFF down) it literally saved my life. I have written down every word of every day, times, dates, slaps, kicks, punches, verbal insults, the triangulations, texts, voicemails, everything. He has nonchalantly asked about the journal, and I’m pretty sure he has been looking for it, but he will never find it. It gives me a sense of protection, as long as I have it, I can live another day. All of the pictures are safely in ICloud. Do I walk away from this, or do I expose him for what he is? It’s all there. I’m afraid for my children, that’s the only thing holding me back (they’re not his, but I feel he wouldn’t blink an eye to destroy them).

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    1. Reb45
      You are not thinking clearly. I know the feeling of wanting revenge. It nourished me for years, but I do not have children. Think about what you have written (most likely in emotional turmoil). Risking your life to expose him, protect future unknown victims, and to make him “pay” is not noble, but martyrdom. You are choosing him again with your focus instead of that of your children (no matter their age) and yourself. Your efforts will likely have no effect on him and prevent you and your children from moving on. Please leave both these thoughts and him behind.

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  8. This is spot on. This is all I thought of during that series of books “Fifty shades of Grey” and the movies.
    “If I just love him enough the way he wants, he will change and love me back”

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  9. HG, have you ever struggled to find a replacement for your IPPS?
    How long does a IPPS relationship typically lasts? From a few months to years?

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  10. “Stay in the burning house because eventually the fire will stop and you will then be okay.”

    Yep.. that’s the stupid me.

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    1. Maria
      I know all too well the cycles of it all. Ive never experienced lengthy devaluations but i have intermittently with triangulation and passive aggressive mind games. The golden period is most of the time when these bouts of devaluation arent occuring.
      Im definitly an intimate secondary source. I dont think the narc has a primary source as were together or in touch most of the time but i dont kid myself either. Narcissists are deceptive and golden periods as good as they are arent permanent. Npd is toxic and theres no getting around it altho ive tried convincing myself its possible. We like to fool ourselves

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      1. Narc affair
        yes.. i fool myself all the time
        when i think i can stay ” out” .. i fall even harder.
        But at this point i find little enjoyment even meeting him, it is
        only the addiction that kicks in…and the hope that things will change for the better.
        The same in my situation.
        He is single . Lives with his parents .
        I could be his mother (i am much older) but i am convinced i am his IPPS
        ( although we never lived together).. because of the huge effort he is making to not loose me. As he senses that i am now too hurt and worn out!
        What do you think HG?

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  11. Narc affair

    That is like my situation..
    10 years in total now.
    A long golden period, a long devaluation.. a long rage.. . long confusion.. long hoovering back…. long long conversations.. arguing… promising… loving.. and all back to square 1..
    I think the loop its wrapped up around my neck now..
    S.O.S

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  12. If its all about staving off boredom and feeding power, theres
    nothing in it for anyone but those of superficial acquaintance.

    I like the strawberry ice cream analogy btw. It must be darkly
    amusing to see how naive and blind empaths are to the realities
    of their “relationship” with the narc.

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  13. Today I met the narcs primary source. During the hoovering I was led to believe she was not fulfilling her expected role as wife. I had no awareness or even knowledge of NPD until this week. When I met his primary I made sure to hug her and give her lots of positive reinforcement. Narc was aware I was going and was not present. What was he looking to elicit by allowing primary and secondary to meet? I carry a great deal of empathy.

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  14. I honestly feel sorry for you and people with this disorder. I like to read your texts. Sometimes I get really surprised about your view of reality. What makes me think ” wow, they are crazy”.then I feel sorry, and I start to think that the narc I was envolved has so many problems. Thanks, to your texts!
    I read a book called ” people of lie” it says about a cure.. it says tha love is the cure. If not for you, Maybe for us it is the cure.
    I wish we all could help you just like you are helping us.

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