Poll – Which Cadre of Narcissist Have You Engaged With?

POLL

As you know, there are four cadres of narcissist – Somatic, Cerebral, Victim and Elite. Which of those have you engaged with in the context of a romantic, familial, social, work or any other kind of dynamic? You may have engaged with more than one ; if so, choose the cadre which applies to the cadre which you engaged with the most.

Remember – this is not the school (those are Lesser, Mid-Range and Greater). If you need to know more about the relevant cadres you can learn more in the book Sitting Target

Do you have any thoughts on which cadre is likely to be the one that has been engaged with the most? If so, let me know and why do you think that might be, I would welcome your observations.

Of the narcissists you have engaged with, which cadre has he or she belonged to? (If more than one - select the cadre applicable to most of those you've entangled with)

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286 thoughts on “Poll – Which Cadre of Narcissist Have You Engaged With?”

  1. Tudor, am I wrong or somehow Elite can be all other cadres put together in one narcissist, depending on what he/she finds suitable to use at moment’s notice (when the narcissist is very intelligent)?

      1. Ok, I will, as I want to understand.
        Thank you!

    1. Hello Somewhere over the rainbow,

      First quick response: not the victim

      ”The Victim Variety of narcissist is somebody who lacks the body and looks obsession of the somatic narcissist and also lacks the intellect of the cerebral narcissist.” Sitting Target

      ”The Elite Narcissist .The final category of narcissist is the Elite Narcissist. He combines both the looks and physical supremacy of the Somatic Narcissist with the intellect and spoken charm of the Cerebral Narcissist.” Sitting Target

      I hope it helps!

      1. Hi SuperXena,

        Thank you very much for the information, you confirmed my suspicions I had to deal with an Elite in nex (somatic+cerebral, he only used victimization few times and when I was breaking-up with him because he’s smart enough to know I’m not weak willed and if I’m threatened I strike back but I can’t be mean to someone already “on the ground”; nex was way too intelligent but just to be sure I gain more input into this aspect, I also ordered Tudor’s book (this one is sold in my country, others aren’t…sadly).

        Thank you again and best wishes!

      2. Hello Somewhere over the rainbow.
        You are welcome. Sittting Target is the right source . You can always order it digital ( if it is sold out in paper form?) through amazon.com
        Good luck!

  2. I somehow missed this post…sorry HG.
    The tHiNg was a Cerebral for sure. Always reading. Fiction mostly, which used to puzzle me as I thought he could have been a lot smarter than he believed himself to be, if he chose books that could actually teach him something.
    He liked to impress with his (lack of) knowledge.
    As for the sex side of things….useless…and non existant! Wouldnt know a womans body if his life depended on it! Ewww. Lucky for me in the long run. He made my skin crawl on so many levels. (insert eye roll here!)…

  3. HG, is it possible to be both victim and somatic? I know you’ve stated before that your kind all have victim mentality, but I feel with the exnarc it was somewhat more than that. From having read your writings on the victim cadre there’s lots of it that rings true, but parts don’t quite fit as he’s definitely got somatic traits too.

    I think he would like to be somatic but realises himself that he doesn’t quite cut it, is ashamed of that, so hates all the world because of it and becomes the victim. Is that feasible?

    1. He could be Somatic with Victim traits of course. Given his reaction he may well be a Lower Mid-Ranger. A Lesser Somatic (usually Lower Lesser or Middle Lesser) will think he cuts it even when he does not, such is the level of delusion. A Lower Mid Ranger wants to cut it but may realise he does not and thus the reaction manifests as you have described.

      1. Thank you HG. I guess he’s somatic with victim traits then (lots and lots of them!!) I just went back and read ”The fuel matix part 2” about mid-rangers to check, and having re-read it, I’m still absolutely certain he is a middle-mid range, not lower-mid. Your description of an MMRN in the article is him *to a tee*!! I think he probably exhibits false modesty, coupled with pity plays, but I’m of the opinion he does recognise when someone is ‘better’ than him (and hates it of course).

  4. Round one was with an Elite (cerebral and somatic) in my 20s, which left me with little self-worth and a broken heart, which of course set me up for…Round two, with a somatic of the greater persuasion. He was and is very good looking, meticulously groomed, very well-dressed, smells delicious always. He’s always worked out, done martial arts and been very physically active. Has a body that men one-third his age would die for (he’s in his late 50s and would die if he knew I said so.) He always posed in front of mirrors, and for me. He made sure I knew what women would look at him, flirt with him, make it clear they wanted him, offered themselves to him, just because of his looks. He capitalized on that, rarely turning any of them down. He “complained” about how gay guys hit on him, but I think there are definite gay tendencies present. He’s obsessed with image, possessions, homes, cars and women. He has to have the best of everything, and it all has to be perfect. He made it clear to me how important a woman’s looks are to him, and reinforced that over and over. His most recent devaluation focused on my looks and my age (I’m 4 years older), telling me that I’m old, wrinkled up, dried up and asking me who would ever want me. He said I couldn’t be anything to anyone except someone’s “companion” because I am not good for anything else. I am not young, but to give you an idea, I’m 5’8″ and weigh 114 lbs, I take care of myself, work out, dress as well as I can, have hair and nails done, never go out without makeup, even get Botox. I’ve been told I look much younger than my 61 years. He destroyed my self-esteem, saying that whatever I’m doing to try to look good is not working, along with other very specific insults and degrading comments. He once called me a whore and hung up on me, then immediately called back. Not to apologize. No. He called back to say, “Did I call you a whore? I’m sorry, I meant to call you a SLUT!” Over the 24 years I had with this monster, there are so many examples of his ego and his abuse that it would take a book to chronicle them all. I got out. I left. And of course he says it’s because I have someone else (I don’t) but otherwise how could anyone leave someone as GORGEOUS and PERFECT as he is?

  5. Dear Mr Tudor, I’m sorry, I am really not quite sure! The male narcissist I know, appears extremely intelligent on one hand, yet appears to lack simple common sense on the other. He’s adamant he feels entitled to receive the Queens Honour Award one day, for his literary skills to his community paper ….(I should refer him to you for beginners lessons!
    My stepfather, on the other hand, was sneaky, underhanded, quietly manipulative and coerced my naive gullible mother.
    In all three cases, each have had shocking childhoods! Parents who didn’t appear to care, nurture or provide unconditional love. My own childhood lacked all the above and I ended up an empath. I hope this has been of some help to your poll and thank you for the opportunity.
    Kind regards

      1. Hi HG,
        Ok, so I have always thought of the recent ex as an upper mid range cerebral, though he has also this focus on objects (fine objects), cars, brand names, and his hair….LOL….he did have really nice hair. He was average attractive with a quick scientific mind. Does this make him an elite upper midrange? I am positive he is not a greater, given his lack of insight into his own behavior, though he had the charm at times, though not as much as I would imagine a greater. He used sulking and silent treatments a lot. He used sex as a weapon (in the beginning really good, though cut it off when devalue began.). ….could he still be an elite? Can elites have one side that is prominent more than the other?

        I know, does it really matter? Not really. But, I am curious how your categories work in the gray areas.

        Also, what about someone that is average intelligence, average looks but is not a victim and yet meets all the criteria? Where would he/she fall? And, do you think they exist?

        Thank you ahead of time for your consideration of this question 🙂
        Indy

    1. Hi KT,

      I am pretty hard core when I’m done with abuse and they cross a line. I get ice in my blood when I’m done. I’m glad you didn’t have this with your experiences with middies.

      I had the 20 year stalker ex husband committed to hospital for 2 weeks (that was 20 years ago) for a fake suicide attempt (nurses verified it was faked to get me to stay). I then had a restraining order as his malign hoovers were scary( pulled wires from my car, etc).

      The recent UMR from a year ago knew I was totally done too. I told him to his face. I was really hard core with him on NC (HG helped). I used HGs books to help and I really was solid. Yet, after 2 months of quiet, he initiated a major Hoover campaign. he called and texted 300 over a week. It was crazy and completely inappropriate stalker behavior. I had to threaten police on him as well. He did malign hoovers along with benign in a matter of minutes. Then quiet again got a month and he hoovered during a funeral and again during xmas. I never communicated with him, true NC. Pure obsessive behavior.

      My guess is that when I escaped the midrange exes, they were shocked and have no fuel lined up. (Frenzy) Then, once they have Fuel set up, they return for revenge Fuel. (Hoovers)

      I think both are the upper range variety though they could be a blend of things with their Narc traits (one was also a bad binge drinker, the other had a bit of OCD mixed in). Both more cerebral. Each narc is different and unique. Some, like the ones you know may be less likely to stalk. I really think I have a stalker magnet along with narc magnets. I’ve been stalked by 3 different exes over the years.

      It also shows the type of attachments I form too, those that think they possess me, like an object. And, subconsciously, I am engaging in this too, liking the intensity of the love bomb that I never got as s kid. I was emotionally somewhat neglected as a kid, though I adore my parents (died) and forgave as they were intending the best. One had major depression and bad trauma history, the other was a stoic military man, stereotype male provider of the early days . So, I became a woman starved for validation and affection.

      I’m very strong though. A survivor, I think of myself as a warrioress making it through the lessons of life for the next round. I work on healing myself and validating myself (DBT). It helps but I still draw them to me like bee to a flower.

      It’s a work in progress 😊
      Thank you for your observation as it allowed me to process this more out loud. It helps!

      1. Thanks for sharing. Mine were somatics, probably very easy for them to recruit new victims hence less hoovering

      2. Fuel IS expensive 👍🏻 True that! Love it!! It is all about the fuel. Despite the messages sent to me begging alternating with raging, he wanted that dramatic emotional response from me to confirm his existence. I also think some was punishing me too, for leaving when I did.

      3. These hoovers of yours also sound like it is not to draw you back in a relationship but rather to torment you and steal your fuel. Fuel is expensive nowadays lol

  6. HG
    Re:The poll
    1. Are you surprised at the number of Elites?
    2. Do you think many have identified incorrectly?

    1. IN what respect, more than expected or less?
      I suspect that some may have identified the narcissist as a Victim Narcissist when they showed victim traits (which all cadres have) as opposed to being a fully fledged Victim Narcissist.

      1. HG
        I expected Somatics and Victims to lead the field but I was surprised the Elites and Somatics were so close in number. Most of the Somatics I identify dont have a brain in their heads. But then the numbers only represent who is actually participating in the poll and also the victims interpretation of intelligence. I knew a guy who referred to chicken fingers as poutry digits in trying to appear intelligent and yeah so e bought it lol.

      2. NA

        You had to bring the chicken up again. 😂😂😂
        I have only know one less intelligent somatic, this might be due to the careers those I knew held. Cerebral thou, many just in my family alone. My cousin the neurosurgeon with a serious god complex, now that I am actually thinking about things I may know more elites.

      3. It’s his perception I suppose, anything is possible. So maybe he isn’t trying to project his traits this time in order to gain control? I WAS a very strong independent woman we we met. Always have been. Always been the backbone on my family, before I became isolated over the years from everyone. What interest then long term would someone as incredibly (awful)such as king dumdum possibly have in me ? I know there is no escaping his kind. Ugh

      4. Twilight, I’ve worked in surgery and every specialty has their stereotype. Orthos are the rowdy football players. Uros are curmudgeons. Anesthesios are the stoners. And Neuros are the gods of the surgery world. Majority are cerebral yet I’ve met a few who are elite and quite breathtaking. Crowds would part, nurses would swoon, ticker tape parades, applause, and standing ovations would occur frequently for them. 😉

      5. Love
        Don’t I know. Lol when I was in my accident I found out it was another cousin of mine that was my doctor. I was thankful it was him. Yet he did leave a piece of glass in my arm. It wasn’t something that would “hurt” me just be aggravating to me and easily explained as to why it was missed.
        I have worked for many doctors, was a surgical assistant, worked in ortho, pedo and general dentistry, some were wonderful and actually caring, some well let’s just say uncaring is an understatement. The worse thou we’re the surgeons.
        Family members thou I saw much, those in the military and those that were civilians.

  7. Thank you for your answer, HG. You always had being a huge light in my recovery.

    Im still confused about the type of N I was with and maybe you can help me to clarify it. My ex called himself a sociopath, even half explained me his mind games he was doing with others and even with me (maybe thought I was so inferior to be able to understand), secondary studies dropped, is street smart (was involved in gangs), somatic, detects other narcissists easily and have a sharp instinct to know others weak points, manipulative (proud of that), impulsive, very passive-agressive and love to play the victim. All indicates a somatic Mid Range N or even a lesser but the self awareness doesn’t fit with this.

    PS. When I mentioned to my psychologist his terrible fear for hospitals and doctors, she told me there is the possibility he had a “bad experience” with a psychologist before.

    1. Thank you for your kind comment. I can certainly shed more light on what type he is and in view of the detail required from you and from me, the appropriate forum to do so is through consultation as there are a number of interesting factors you touch on in your comment which are worthy of further expansion.

  8. Dear HG.. I’m a fan of your blog and I just purchased your books ‘Revenge’ and ‘Sitting target’. Looking forward to it…

    Considering myself a carrier/ super empath with a very very thin line between my both strong empathic- and narcissistic traits.. is it somewhat true that I keep attracting the narcs with my empathie and the empaths with my narc goodies? In other words.. wanting to end up with a caring, beautiful hearted co-dependant wife should I start focussing on my less devellopped narcististic side of my character?

  9. Hi HG, two questions if you dont mind to answer,
    1) Academic archivement must be a Greater’s trait? 2) Could exist a upper lesser or mid ranger aware that he is a sociopath?

  10. Mid range – victim. We dated for a year… I escaped in December. Haven’t heard a word… No contact is key.

      1. KT I agree with you about mid rangers, because they tend to lack confidence and cut their losses. But they are also the ones that come back out of the blue years later when something brought you to their mind.

      2. Windstorm2. Mine contacted me after years. I still think he is a UMR. He has been silent as of Easter, which is very much appreciated. I wish I could apply mind bleach to him so he could forget me.

        HG is a Greater and said he contacted one of his after 12 years.

      3. 1jaded1, mind bleach sounds like a good plan for a lot of them! 😄
        At least midrangers seem easy to scare off. The ones I know are so easily hurt and then they run away once you get to where you only respond to them with emotionless criticism.

      4. Hi KT,
        I wish my ex mid rangers knew yours. I was hoovered hard core by two middies.

        One still after 20 years. The other called/texted me 300 times the last week of August 2016. 2 months after I left. I think because I escaped at a point they didn’t expect or have Fuel lined up. I’m glad you were stalked like that, never wish it on anyone.

  11. HG or anyone actually….please could you help. I’m struggling to work someone out. He’s my best friends partner. Highly intelligent, has a narc mother, middle child and the only one of the 3 to be sent to full time boarding school. At the same time as him being away at boarding school, the others went to regular school. He shows every sign of being a covert narc BUT he lived on his own for 6 years and he still needs his own space and a lot of time on his own. That alone would be a deal breaker would it not? He has only ever had 2 relationships and he’s 40.
    He has ocd and everything in his life is negative. For example; if they’ve had a nice day out my friend would say “what a lovely day we’ve had” but her partner would say “it would have better if that prick hadn’t cut me up at the roundabout” and he would base his whole experience of the day solely on the one negative.
    Another example ; they recently decorated their bedroom. My friend was really pleased with it. He however moaned that it would be so much better if we had another window.
    He’s not a bad person as such, he actually is really nice in a lot of ways and treats her very well a lot of the time.
    He is also very honest. He admits he feels no empathy. He doesn’t understand why.
    It is almost like he’s having an inner fight with himself not to be a narc. Which in turn would surely suggest he isn’t?
    He has seen many therapists and life coaches over the years out of his own choice. I believe he wants to change but can’t find the way ahead. He openly admits his own flaws but at the same time can’t grasp how they have such such negative effect on my friend. (Lack of empathy)
    He’s very heavy handed on the silent treatments. Not replying to texts etc. My friend is always walking on eggshells now as she never knows what shes done wrong (typical narc behaviour)
    I’d be very grateful if anyone could help me out here. I’ve looked into all the different types of PD’s but he doesn’t fit snugly into any of them. Not that I’m a lover of categorizing but I do know something isn’t ‘right’ and I’m struggling to put my finger on it.
    Sorry for the long post!
    I really hope someone can help point me in the right direction.
    Many thanks in advance.

  12. Let’s see, well quite a lineage here so I’ll try to keep it as simple as I can. Hard to put it all down in simple terms. I was black sheep punted many decades ago so haven’t witnessed any of the behaviors recently though I’m sure much hasn’t changed. Still working some of it out.

    Greater (Grandmother). Cerebral and somatic. Holy mask with fake empathy. Quite intelligent and healthy. She held many prominent positions in various hospitals overseeing nurses and was an accomplished nurse for many decades before that. Her punishments were malign with the religious undertone and the false empathy mask covered it up well in public. She is a piece of work. No one messed with her. Sadistic. Still alive today, I think at this point it’s pure fury keeping her going.

    Mid-range (Upper) Matrinarc. Victim. Holy mask and fake empathy mask. Not as intelligent or as healthy but utilized the fake empathy mask well in public. Pre-school teacher and also worked with disabled before that. (Often referred to them as her flock.) Married at least 6 times now to possibly a few lessers, easier to control. Men that were always physically abusive and had bad habits or addictions. Black widow in terms of marrying men who were infirm, three died of illness and she gained benefits. (Which was easily covered up with the holy mask.) A split parenting style due to her abusive religious upbringing on older brother and myself.

    Which leads to Midrange brother. Victim mask a favorite (especially toward matrinarc).Golden child. Fake empathy, though he had a harder time with it. He was spoilt out of guilt because he received a lot of abuse from men Matrinarc would marry. Somatic and very good at sports, achieved much in track and field. Holy mask worn often to garner sympathy from mother and benefits (money, items, friends). Actually claimed this often, “I’m the first born, never forget that.” Not so good at mind games but emotional was his bag o’ tricks. Became an addict much later in life. Oddly enough had a good relationship with him until I was disowned (discarded) due to deep wounding by confronting his alcoholism and abusive and neglectful parenting style of his son. Been in prison for assault on ex-wife once.

    Lesser (Upper) Stepbrother for many years. Primarily victim towards authority. Violent and quite the successful violent thug. Ever heard of the gang called the Crips? He was very good at working his way up despite the fact he was white believe it or not. Crime was life goal. Very impulsive decisions and instinctual. Dished out violence often, even on cops. In and out of prison for various petty crimes. Addictions, bad relationship choices, quite unhealthy. the perfectly painted picture of the violent bully with followers as a kid. Broke into homes and stole things a lot as a teenager. Not very smart, as you can imagine.

    Mid-range ex-narc. (Possibly upper, still working this one out as haven’t been around him in many many years.) Victim mask towards unsuccessful career. Charming. Very attractive and did write a lot of poetry and letters to woo ladies. Was into theatre and quite cerebral. Pursued acting and wore many different masks, though victim was a favorite. The whole, “Oh I should have been a star by now!” claims. Loved attention. Mind games and emotional manipulations were insane and triangulated a fair amount. Victims were usually women he played mind games with. Though it may be waning as the years move on, at least his attractiveness is. Theatre is still his employment but never became the star he dreamed to be, so victim mask is possibly a favorite now.

    1. Wow that’s a comprehensive list! I guess you have had time to analyse and piece it all together though. Well done on staying away. That’s some achievement considering you were raised in that family.

  13. Since I grew up with the lessers I can share the traits that I saw in my immediate and extended family. Many of them seemed intellectually deficient. They loved copious amounts of junk food, they did not take care of their physical or dental health, also, several did not shower so they were very smelly. They usually had multiple addictions: food, alcohol, shopping, cigarettes, prescription drugs, coke, heroin, meth, weed, beer, liquor, casino gambling, keno, lottery tickets and several of them were hoarders. There was a lot of physical violence and neglect in my family, as well as, prostitution (my sister), driving under the influence, drug and human trafficking (four of my cousins were trafficked), fraud, theft and murder. It could be very chaotic at times.

      1. Hello KCN, I consider myself very lucky to have escaped that environment and you are absolutely correct; it took a tremendous amount of strength and I am finally free. Thank you!

    1. So sorry you had to grow up with that K. Makes my family full of midrangers seem like a picnic. As a teacher in an impoverished area, I’ve had a lot of students from situations like that. It is a testament to you that you survived it and are healing yourself! ❤️

      1. Hello Windstorm2, my childhood was very difficult and I was determined to get away from my family, and I am very fortunate that I was able to break free. My heart goes out to all of your students that have suffered abuse. Mercifully, I have survived and I am healing. Thank you!

    2. PS
      I forgot; my narcissistic twin tried to build a bomb back in the 90s (he asked me to steal nitrogen for him, I refused) and he tapped the phone lines so he could eavesdrop on all calls. He was a psycho.

  14. Had a MR somatic in my 20s. He was 48, retired. 

    One day he asked me to take an afternoon off work to wait for the cable guy in his apartment, while “he was taking his latest fling sailing on his boat!!”. 

    I refused. One week ST. 

    He reeled me in. Make up sex (or so he thought ). I was on top of him, scored my orgasm and with him still inside, I stopped moving and emotionless said “this is the last time we’re having sex”. 
    I stood up, leaving him “backed up” and frustrated as he was holding his dick in his hand in total shock and rage.

    I was done. He hoovers me every few years by email. I abhor him. I hate Frenchmen.

      1. ☺ thanks Clarece… took HG’s article to remember that. Now if only it was that easy with my ex-Elite 😕

  15. I’d say N1 was Somatic at least when he was younger and before he met me. He showed me a pic from when he was younger and he was very conventionally good looking and said that women of all ages tried to seduce him. He was in his 30s when I met him. Age and neglect were not kind. Looks don’t matter to me. He seemed intelligent. He lured me in with chess but it quickly became our tipping point bc a female younger person (me) beat him. I tutored him in calculus. He didn’t like that either, but did like the grade I helped him earn. He kept telling me about an invention that would be his legacy. Still waiting to see that one. His daddy was supporting him. Crafty like a fox bc most daddies wouldn’t do that for a child in their 30s.

    N2 played victim but was crafty like a fox. He manipulated people for the fun of it and knew exactly what he was doing. He told me how he loved to stir shit up but would never do that to me (liar).. He was very very cerebral. We talked about everything from science to politics to history; music, mythology and so much more. He knew I wasn’t a fan of Playboy magazine, but The Scream is my favorite painting. An issue had an article on theft of paintings. He knew I couldn’t resist that type of article. He “accidentally” gave the mag to me with a naked pic and said he lost the place. The aricle was right next door. He gloated. I read. We discussed the article. That is the kryptonite that still glows green and I need to avoid it. So now to decide how to vote.

    Love the poll, HG.

    1. He would most likely declare that his victim is the narcissist because of what he has read.

      1. Which brings us to my twisted situation. Is it even possible, for a elite greater to ensnare and subject a midrange somatic female for 10 years and her be completely in aware of her npd?

      2. I assume you mean she unaware of her nod? If so, yes such a scenario is feasible.

      3. HG,

        If you don’t mind, enlighten me? How does one gage that hypothesis? This is a very complex tale of my “reality”. However, in short, I confronted my greater, elite/sociopath. In a gentle way , hints, and soft mentions of my awareness of him and how his kind is wired. And the other night, through texts, he picked up the conversation. And openly admitted to my discovery. We casually sat for 4 hours and sent text messages back and fourth, he answered my questions and seemed comfortable with the topic. He swears , That he loves me and we just needed this space and I am his Anchor. Then the next day, he suggested that I am one of his kind too. I just have too much anger to reconize it myself . I always knew I was different from everyone else from a very young age. I always thought it was how everyone was. Later in life it became clear I was different. I was an intuitive empath or so I thought…. I can see images in my mind and it’s precognitive visions, or information about something or someone, i can even pick up and pain and emotions of others . I kinda had a hard time with what he said , only because I felt in that instant..
        It was BULLSHIT.
        IT’S ANOTHER TRICK! But I’ve had 2 days to reflect on it, and it makes sense in a way. Because of my thoughts and feelings my whole life. He says I am both. And my empathy is a learned behavior. I wondered how that is? Him and I were married 10 years and I fell for every one of his tricks? I don’t know what to do … I had a 1 nightstand after I was discarded last year, and became pregnant. By another man. Who is a lesser narc for sure. And we still cohabitate currently..I have 1 daughter who just turned 18 from previous marriage . Was unable to concieve with my husband. Was 100% loyal to him during our time together. Now he has interest all the sudden in my son… how come? He says my boy is gonna be something greater than him one day.. perplexed I am, to say the least..

      4. But does he really believe that the victim is the narc or does he declare that because he wants to deflect attention away from him?

      5. A Lesser does not really know what a narcissist is and may bandy about the word as he will regard it as insulting. Mid-Rangers will believe you are a narcissist. Greaters know you are not but may say it to deflect and provoke.

      1. Mine would have definitely said “omg I knew it! Im an empath and I knew you were a narc!”
        He would have used HG’s writing to project every single thing that resonated with him onto me.
        I say that without a seconds doubt. And he had an amazing ability to actually believe his own B.S. as soon as it was out of his mouth.
        The only thing he would have challenged was type of empath. He wouldn’t settle for super empath. He would have to be a super, more special, better superior type of empath than any other empath that ever walked the earth.
        I shit you not. I can hear him saying it.

  16. I was going to say cerebral (too physically insecure to be an elite) but she had that strain of dependency in her too and a self pitying nature. She invited and was dependant on compassion. I suppose that would demote her from a greater to an upper mid ranger.

  17. Ok, I have had time to think about why my ex is most likely a cerebral narcissist. He was non-violent (except when smashing stuff while furious), he was very charming, kind, and helpful, he put a lot of effort into the golden period, he wrote me dozens of letters and poems, he found and bought me an out-of-print book that I wanted, he had flowers delivered to my school and they were waiting for me on my classroom desk (I have no idea how he found out which desk was mine), the sex was great, he seemed smart and he quoted Shakespeare during the GP. Also, he was never overly concerned with his appearance until he replaced me with his IPSS.

  18. My ex was a victim/somatic. He was obsessed with going to the gym and making sure his body looked tight. His pants were sometimes snug around throws southern regions. I remember I used to say “how the fuck are you going out like that?” He would look at me like I had two heads lmao. I would then say “I can clearly see the outline of your dick!” He was convinced all the women at work that passed him in the hall were checking out his junk (delusional). It’s not even like his dick was big! He was obsessed with big dicks and was very self conscious of his size. I found these dick pills in his dresser one day and I was thinking wow really?

    My ex also was sucha victim. His talent and brilliance always unrecognized 🙄. Everything was poor him. He would bring it all on himself – so self-destructive. I should also add he had no motivation to achieve.

      1. Jenna,

        I bet he will be one day if he keeps lurking in the woods looking for dick off the trails in the state parks lmao!

    1. Dr Harleen
      My narcs obsessed with his dick too. He loves to send me pics of it when were not together. His is perfect tho lol he doesnt wear tight clothes to accentuate it. I think with him he uses his dick and sex to hook me in the relationship along with the other tools he knows work.
      Was it only women he wanted to take notice of his bulge? By past things you said about him i do wonder. Youd know better than anyone.

      1. Narc affair,

        Funny you say that lmao… I think it was for men lol.

        I really believe that he has serious sexuality issues. I think he can bang a woman but he really realllllly wants a dude. The whole things is confusing because he always and let me say always wanted to fuck. He would refer to me by my body parts and like always would say disgusting shit to me (not hot shit lol).

        He would go to the gym all the time and come back and I noticed he always wanted to bang. I now think it’s because he wanted to prove to hime the was straight because after all the gym especially locker room/ pool area is a hot spot.

        He would go to the parks at night and would ride to my house. He would come over and had an odd smell – liek a strange sweat smell. I would open his water bottle the huge fucking water bottle was full of like vodka and whatever.

        He was very aware of other men. He would make comments about “oh (insert male name) was all touchy at the party when he was drunk”

        I did catch him on a site called abitbigger.com and it said male seeking a male. I remember what he fucking profile said – it was so damn detailed. I remember it had a line “in a dedicated pleaser who also likes to be pleased”

        I also remember him blaming me for it lmao. He had the balls the fucking balls to look me in the face and say “I never forgave you for that” – hahahah wow … for what? For catching your dumbass? He said he did it for the pictures and stuff and didn’t know it was a sex dating site. He said “I can’t believe how low you would go” hahaha!

        The strap on in the butt would also lean in the gay direction. When I google his email it’s attached to male solo porn.

        What do you think lol?

        He used to say I made him feel like a man.

        I look back now and I feel like he was acting in ways he thought a stereotypical straight man should behave.

        There are so many more things lmao!

        People feel free to weigh in lol….

      2. Don’t these guys realize (narc and non-narc) that doesn’t make us wanna jump on them lol??

      3. Dr. Q, i read your replies to me. Thanks for the elaboration. I’m sorry you had to go through that. But you seem to take it with a grain of salt, inserting ‘lmao’ in your comments about him. Regardless, he seems horrible.

      4. Dr Harleen
        I dont know how you put up with that! Wow. The man you describe sounds so much like my brother in law. We always suspected he might have sexuality issues. Things hed say about gay men around us masking it as if he was disgusted. He was really into kickboxing and bulking up but it seemed over the top. He has so many mannerisms that point to him being into men. Same scenerio with the gym he would comment a lot on other mens bodies. Hed disappear in the night and go walking who knows where. He later told us there was a hilly park nearby their house where gay men hooked up…ummm how did he know that and why tell us? There were many red flags.
        He grew up in a foster home and had been sexually abused by an older brother.
        Just for the record i have nothing against other sexualities i feel you should be your true self just be upfront and dont live a lie.
        My sister in law is so very brainwashed and codependant she would never leave him.

      5. Narc affair & Jenna,

        It wasn’t just so mind blowing and confusing. I’m totally cool with all sexualities and what not but it’s just so selfish and mean to do that to someone and let them waste precious years of their life. If he ended up being gay and like was actually nice to me I could forgive that. I mean sure I would be annoyed but I could forgive it. It’s not like he was nice to me and treated me well. He was a passive aggressive victim through it all.

        I’m sure you both can understand why I was so all over the place because the man wouldn’t stop trying to touch me. It still confuses me.

        Everyone tells me he’s a gay guy who can’t face itbut can bang a woman. Narc affair – It sounds to me like you are thinking along those lines too. It makes me feel better when other people say it because I’m so emotionally involved I can’t see or think straight.

        I seduced him when it all started. It was the attention I gave him, the sex, the money, and the image from the characteristics I supplied him with that made him come to me.

        If only I had known what exactly I was getting involved with.

        It feels good to hear you both validate my feelings. I’m more grateful than you know. It’s strange because when people say “omg that was fucking horrible” I think was it that bad? I became so used to it – it’s really like sad.

      6. I have a few gay family members (male and female) and they were so funny they are like dude he’s gay and he can’t face it. When I told the same fam members he had a pair of male shape ups (the sneakers by sketchers that look kinda like platform sneakers and are supposed to like work out ur ass while u wall) they were like omg come on now lol. I guess they can say that because they are gay? Lmao

        You know there was a rumor before we went out at work that he was gay (we used to work together that’s how we met).

      7. Dr Harleen
        I know what you mean about how over time we think what were enduring isnt as bad as it is/was.
        I look at my sister in laws situation and the family in general has turned a blind eye to his bizarre behaviors because its just become the “norm”. Weve gotten used to it and the cycle keeps persisting.
        In this day in age i dont understand why people feel they need to hide who they are sexually. People are generally very understanding. I cant speak speak firsthand tho as im hetero. Possibly he as bi? It does sound like he was overcompensating to prove to himself his masculinity and ability to satisfy a woman.
        What you endured was very bizarre and alarm bells would be ringing all over the place.
        I love your sense of humor and thats so healing in life!

      8. Lol the sketchers shape ups i always wondered if they worked 😂 yup alarm bells 😄

      9. Narc affair,

        I mean I’m well aware I attract and am attracted to psychopaths. This was just … something else lol! He had this pair of red underwear that said Papi on it and I thought it was so like cheeseball lmao now I’m like hmmmmmmmmm……

        It’s hard to even tell my story to other psychologists – most just don’t get it.

        I go crazy when people say well if it was so bad why did you stay? You must really have low self esteem don’t you? Why haven’t you moved on?

        It’s infuriating. It’s so much more complicated than that.

  19. Narcaffair, you may save yourself the time of looking for my update in the ‘crying game part four.’ As i said, HG has not posted it yet, owing to his superior judgement. 😉

  20. Indy, did your ex-husband have the entire spectrum of emotions? Then you could determine more accurately if he is a narc? I’m sorry you have to go through that. Is he your son’ biological father?
    Also, i think DSM needs to change their definition of narcissism and include the absence of feelings of happiness, sadness, love, empathy at the top of their list. And perhaps having an undefined sense of self as trait #2. And reflecting others as trait #3. It’s just my opinion.
    Grandiosity is listed first, and many narcs will dismiss being told they are a narc by seeing this first. Mine resisted at first when he read ‘grandiosity’ from the DSM definition.
    It was not until i directed him to a few narc threads on psycforums that he realized the truth. When he read one commenter stating ‘i do not feel happy or sad’, my ex said ‘i don’t feel happy or sad either 😭’ with that exact emoji.
    About two wks later (i didn’t want to bombard him all at once) i texted him another link on psychforums where a narc stated he feels no attachment to anybody and feels like narcissism is hell on earth. My ex didn’t comment on it. He remained quiet. I asked him the next day if he read it. He said ‘i read the first page; that’s me.’ He then accepted his narcissism.

    1. Hi Jenna,
      I was with the ex husband during a time in my 20s, when I knew nothing of narcissism. Looking back, I believed he felt all the emotions though I never asked. Narcissists, as HG tells us, are pro’s at mimicking emotion so it would be hard for me to know if his happiness and love and sadness were fully felt internally. He expressed them. I thought he had empathy as he was kind to kids and animals and went on protest marches with me. But, he could have mimicked this too. You see why I question?

      It was the faked suicide attempt, the 20 plus years of stalking and the quick shifts from benign to malign hoovers that informs me he has at least some traits. The label doesn’t matter to me as much as the pattern I have in these type of relationships (even tho each is different, really different. For me, a lot of it is about control, about me being true to myself and my values and having boundaries. Self love). No he was not my son’s father.

      Now, my last ex that I left almost a year ago…he is for real a narcissist with so many signs, including reduced empathy and restricted range of authentic emotions. I used to see him watching me before he laughed, looking for cues on how to react to certain things during the golden period. I saw the dead eyes during the stranger period, the mask slips, the carousel of masks, projection, silient treatments, passive aggression, lies for sport, cheating in games, the love of material things (more than typical), word salad, gas lighting, victim pity plays a few times, very smart and sex as a weapon. Damn he was charming though. He had a fake smile, the kind you see on TV in news reporters and in ads. He knew it was charming and that it didn’t appear real and STILL he used that killer smile, broad, big, dramatic. I only saw a “real” seemingly genuine smile 2x in two years. He could reflect/mirror me so well and did it with his eyes and interests and food likes. Smoothly. His self deprecating humor tricked and charmed me into thinking he was not a narc. Excellent actor. With that said, my gut still gave warnings….I ignored them because I was in “emotion mind”…in love. Logic out the window.

      Be careful of your new beau. I hope it works, I really do as you deserve real love. Make sure he cares for you, really listens to you and honors your boundaries. If you learn down the road it isn’t working, there is no shame in leaving. I hope for your happiness 😊

      1. Hey Indy! Reading your comment I had a realization. No one really laughed in my family. The most they would do was a sardonic chuckle or smirk – always a little bit after whatever had been funny. When I would automatically laugh out loud at something, they’d look at me in surprise like I was crazy. I came to the conclusion they wanted to feel superior to those of us who didn’t have self control, or that they weren’t smart enough to see what was funny. It never would have occurred to me that they didn’t have the full range of émotions. Knowing that now, I better understand so many things.

      2. Hi Windstorm2,
        That is a really interesting observation! hmm, my ex hub didn’t have a hearty laugh and neither did his family. Though I thought it was cultural for them. Little controlled laughs that felt like there was little warmth. You know, very “dignified” laughs. Hahahaha Hmmmm….Now I’m pondering more….very good actors.

  21. Father – cerebral/somatic elite. Thank God He wasn’t part of my life for long…however, he left his mark and definately scarred me.

    Ex Wife – 20yrs. Not sure if she was a narc? High anxiety and self admitted “super bitch” always angry, never satisfied.

    Ex GF – 6+ yrs. VICTIM

  22. Hark, my somatic narc:
    48 years old but looking younger. Shaved bald-headed, regal features, pale in a noble, heart wrenching way, grey eyes with fine lashes, intensified by a permanent eye make-up, sculpted body, elaborate, fine clothing, metallic, yet soft voice.
    “Conquered” me by talking to me from behind while I was standing near my bicycle. Immediate sexting after having gotten the number of my mobile phone.
    Intense sex after two days of permanent sexting and texting.
    Beginning of devaluation period right afterwards,following the Textbook of HGS “Sex and the Narcissist”.
    His special issue: sexual encounters mustn’t last longer than 20 minutes. Harsh punishment and silent treatment if I wouldn’t respect that limit …

  23. HG, the reply button has disappeared on some comments, and i cannot hit reply in my email because i am not getting all comments in my email. Would you be ever so gracious to add a reply button to the comments again? I particularly would like to reply to indy and windstorm. Thank you.

    1. This is a WP matter. In the past the ability to reply has sometimes been curtailed by WP. I am about other matters at present but if you reply and state who you are addressing it to, I am sure, as avid readers they will see your post.

      1. Im really not liking this new platform😳 I use to be able to do everything, read everything and communicate from my WP account. Now I have to leave it, be directed to your personal blog to engage…..I a not a fan of “change”, as you can see, ha ha

      2. That’s the catch. As more blogs come out each day, I’m not going to keep going back to older blogs to scroll through hundreds of comments to see what new responses may have popped up and maybe to me. Totally not your fault or issue, but WP messed up a very cohesive system. I relate very much to what Jenna is saying.

      3. Hi! I’m glad I remembered to separately log into WP. I would have missed your comment to me. I’ve re-registered. I’ve checked to get email notifications but it’s not happening. Major bummer!
        I always enjoy your comments Windstorm2!

  24. I voted on the “Victim” since they’re the ones I’ve dealt with the most throughout my life, but it was the one Greater Elite Narc who did me in and damn near stole my soul.

  25. It’s hard to choose just one, as I have engaged with multiple variations of all. One in particular was a mid-range with cerebral and somatic traits. (He switched from one to another after some ‘trauma’.) But he was also a victim–oh, poor me! and a total snob with regards to ridiculous things. But I have known more cookie-cutter types, esp. the somatic who loves to work out 4 hrs per day and brag about his dick pics.

  26. Cerebral-the perfect mix of charm, intelligence, manipulation, passive-aggressiveness, lies, sexual tension, envy, control, selfishness, and silent treatments. Add to that sexual repression and sexual dysfunction and you’ve got yourself quite a heady cocktail. Oh but he talks a good game…nonstop with the suggestions and innuendos. Does he know how bad he is in bed? Is it to frustrate me? I’ve got to get me some of that logical thinking!

      1. I’ve been following a lot of your posts, G-bean, and I think we have a lot in common (at least our cerebrals have a lot in common). Your comments have definitely helped me – thank you! I hope you find peace and love away from that douchebag.

  27. Is it common for narcissists to be involved in criminal activity? My narc had a clean record but was involved with a lot of “dirty money” apparently, whatever that meant. He mentioned once when he was quite drunk that he owed some money to some bad people, but denied he said anything when I brought it up later and acted completely offended at my suggestion.

    1. It does happen owing to the sense of entitlement, lack of accountability, sense of invulnerability, the fact that laws and procedures do not apply to us.

  28. The problem with this website and HG’s books are that you end up seeing narcs everywhere. People you didn’t realise were narcs start to make you wonder if they really are. You examine everyone’s behaviour, analyse it, becoming paranoid in the process, wondering if there is anyone left in the world you can really trust.

    I will die alone with my cats. Except the one that went missing this week. 🙁

    1. Hi Flickatina!
      I do still feel the paranoia around me. I walk around not trusting anyone because I think they all have an agenda and motive.
      That’s what happens when you have someone who plotted and calculated every move from the beginning of a relationship to manipulate you.

      You are too fabulous and hilarious to end up alone!!!!
      I’m sorry about your cat.
      Hoping that he/she finds their way home soon.
      Sending you hugs ❤️🍎❤️

      1. Oh what a nice thing to say Snow! Thank you. Perhaps my fabulousness and hilariousness cannot be for one person alone. I must be shared! (In a non sexual way you understand – ‘cos like, no! Just no!) 😉

      2. LOL Flickatina!!!!!
        You keep being exactly who you are!
        That kind of persona should be for everyone to enjoy.
        Hang in there 😊

    2. Hi Flickatina,
      Oh no, I hope your kitty comes back. 😿 I have two kitties and right now I’m with yah. I also had the same feeling that everyone was narcs.

      1. Thanks Indy. He is an older cat and I think he is a bit senile – it’s very unlike him to wander off. I do have a lead which I will follow up when I get home tonight.

        Perhaps he foresaw the election results and though fuck this – I’m done!

      2. Hahaha
        Come on over to ‘Merica!
        Yes, we be crazy, but it is getting “real” here! Spies, leaks, and Russians–oh my! LOL

    3. Hi Flickatina

      Sorry to hear about your cat, hope he/she comes a strolling back with that look they always seem to have when they have been up to mischief. At least mine would, stroll right in the front door with a look like he ate the damn bird ( probably did to) and got away with it.

    4. Hi Flick, ahh has your cat turned up yet? I hope so!
      I agree with what you say. I found my way here because of my ex husband. I thought it was my first encounter with a narc but by being educated here I’ve slowly come to realise there have been soooo many! Of my 3 main relationships 2 were with narcs. I also had a brief thing with a narc psychopath but I ran like hell from that one. I didn’t realise he was a narc but I certainly did realise he was dangerous so I was out of there within a month. I’ve also had LOTS of ‘friend’ narcs including a best friend who really f***ed me over. That hurt. My ex FIL is one too. My best friends ex is one. My next door neighbour. The list goes on…
      I’m astounded at the sheer volume of them. But what astounds me most is my complete ignorance of NPD before the ex. This is why we MUST educate others and make the world aware.

    5. No paranoia for me. My asshat radar is finely tuned at this stage.
      We are all a bit narcissistic. I know my own personal narc ( me) showed up on the trip. Had to test the waters with the naturalist who is brilliant when it came to Islands and the sea life and land animals.
      I swam with sharks too. His knowledge had me setting him up to target. I love a smart mind. Marine Biologist.

      The next day “I want to say that you are amazing and I am so sorry I was selfish. But I needed that and I want to thank you.”
      I rethought Latin men and so happy I did.

      The trip was amazing!

  29. On the subject of poll HG, made me wonder something. Ns have no problem sleeping, I understand this. But what about Teresa May last night for example and tonight even. Would she struggle to sleep due to out and out fury ? Or still sleep soundly ?

    1. What makes you think she is a narcissist? I think she is more likely to struggle to sleep out of thinking “How did I manage to bugger that up?”

      1. To be honest I’ve lost interest in politics so I make that judgement based on no evidence whatsoever. I just presumed.

      2. Tezza was hopefully kept awake planning how to sack her advisors both political and fashion. Looking at her make-up couldn’t help but imagine the burning clown car that is Britain parked outside the venue!

  30. I have engaged with all of them. I have a child with a cerebral and another child with an Elite. The cerebral used to make me his little b**ch, but engagement with a few Elites has spun me into empath supernova and I have learned to shut down the Narcissist that are below the elite level, but not the elite narcissist completely yet.

    1. ANM, are either of your children exhibiting behavior similar to their father’s cardre? I am curious if the cadre can be hereditary as well.

      1. Love, I realize you didn’t ask me the question, but thought I’d give you more data. Our biological son who is a narc is cerebral like his dad (and also left handed), our adopted son is somatic like his birth father. Neither of them, however, is in the same school as his father.
        My husbands father was somatic. No one could have accused him of being a cerebral! My brothers-in-law who are narcs are both somatic. My mother and her dad were both somatic. My father was elite, never met his dad but he was a very abusive narc from all accounts.
        Don’t know if it is hereditary or not, but if it is genetic don’t forget that we may carry the genes as well. My 5 yr old grandson shows many signs of being a narc, yet neither my daughter nor son-in-law are one and he has never been abused in any way.
        Good luck in your data collecting!

      2. Thank you Windstorm. This is very informative. I absolutely agree that we empaths carry the gene as well. I wonder if that may have been a reason why I did not have children even though I love babies and a big family. Given who I am drawn to, and my family tree, our combined genes may have created Lucifer. And given my nature, I would have cuddled that child silly and perhaps enabled all those special traits to flourish. I have no doubt that child would come out of the womb with me wrapped around his fingers.

      3. Ha,ha, Love!! I’m much too skeptical and a worrier for that to have been a problem with me. Also I was blessed to have had two wonderful in laws (greater somatic and super empath) to point out potential problems and provide advice and strategies. I am very proud of all 4 of my kids and how they’ve turned out!

      4. Love,
        the Cerebral and his Narcissist family is of the Midrange. The family has a Covert Narcissistic dynamic. I believe the Narcissism is a midset/culture the family engrain the children to think and act a certain way, and therefore create spoiled, snobby, adult children who think they are above everyone. My son who was born into that family, is Empathic like I am. I had to separate from that family for a numerous amount of years to teach my son my own values and point of view of life. His father still tries to turn my son against me from time to time, but my son has pretty much developed his permanent, non-narcissistic personality by now.

        My daughter from the Elite family, is too young for me to tell if she will be on the Narcissistic side of spectrum. Her father is a Greater Narcissist. The whole family is very much compartmentalized as Narcissist do. It is hard for me to find the roots of their problems. I suspect there is some type of unspoken genetic/behavioral/mental issue going on in their family. My daughters father claims to have PTSD. I actually question this because, a: I am not sure if Narcissist get PTSD, b: If Narcissist get PTSD if it manifest in same way normal people have it, c: I think PTSD is a good cover up for Psychopathy or Sociopathy.

      5. Thank you Amy. It is great that you have ensured your children aren’t raised in an environment to believe narc behavior is normal and accepted.

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